Does God the Father Have a Body? (An Interview with Anthony Rogers
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2024
- I had the honor of interviewing pastor and Christian apologist, Anthony Rogers (@Ousias1), regarding his recent debate with Sean Griffin on whether God the Father has a body. Watch Anthony's debate with Sean here: • Anthony Rogers@Ousias1...
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@David wilber is Rev. Anthony Roger's a trinitrrian? Does he believe in trinity?
@@CDB-Nowyes go to Anthony Roger’s channel and you will see that he talks about the trinity in-depth and the incarnation of God the son.
Rogers gave Griffin a thorough shellacking. His followers have nothing substantive to say in response. The only thing they have shown repeatedly is that Elijah is not their role model. Lol
This is AWESOME! heresy needs to be corrected and if people really want the truth they will find it..the trouble is most people assume they already have it!
Sean came out of the trinitarian philosophical unscripural doctrines of men.
When Anthony hit Sean with the circumcision questions Sean was done. He was just making stuff up at that point because his pride refused to allow him to yield. He started shooting from the hip and contradicting himself
Antony was gross and disgusting.
Warning, shooting from the Hip leads to VD
Absolutely the father YHWH has a body (Moses saw his backside) and Yeshua has a body (he ate and drank with his disciples and told Thomas to touch him) and his angels have bodies (they ate and drank with Abraham) ..a spiritual body doesn’t mean NO body!
You use one verse but ignore the many others which quite clearly say the father does not have a body of any kind. Yes the son took on human flesh, however the father did not.
Where does it say that this was the Father? Yeshua is YHVH and this is reasonably a Trinitarian passage
@@TheGiantSlayer1 So Yeshua prayed to who?
@@DeLaVieMedia his father.
The Father took on flesh. Jesus said it was His Father in Him.
To be honest I loved Sean and watch every video of his for 4 years up until recently. As someone who isn’t very confident, the way he presented information with such surety drew me in. Now I can see through his act and it took reading the word and studying history to recognize when he was simply shooting from the hip and making things up. I started to notice (since history is my area of study) events would be recounted wrong, wrong empire, wrong leader, mispronunciation of simple names. I liked his idea of Christ’s priesthood in the Heavenly tabernacle but everything is tied to the DSS community, I think if someone could expose the Yachad for their legalism and mysticism, folks wouldn’t be upholding many of their writings and scrolls they kept as scripture.
Thanks for sharing. I have heard similar accounts from MANY former followers of Sean. They were taken in by his confidence and emphasis on sensational topics, but once they started studying for themselves they realized he was full of it.
Thank you so much for saying this. I have said for a while Sean’s content preys on the young in the faith and the Biblically illiterate. You are correct, Sean makes up so much stuff but presents it as if it’s fact.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Stay in the Word, it frees us from the bondage of man-made burdensome doctrines.
Great discussion!
Unbelievably timely. Who’s back did Moses see?
If we take that passage literally Definitely not the father.
Im not a trinitarian so i will give this a pass. While Scripture says that the Father is Spirit, i believe He also has some physical form. He speaks of using His "hand" to cover Moses as He walks by but allows Moses to see His back side. Uses expressions like face to face. Is it exactly how we see a body. Idk. But i believe He has the ability to have a physical form. But He is Spirit as well.
John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known." In is my view that yes, God the Father has a body, and that body is the form of a man, His name is Yeshua. "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". John 14:9
If The father is Yeshua how can you explain this
“In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.””
John 8:17-18
Who is the one who sent Yeshua if Yeshua is the father? And if Yeshua is the father how can there be two witnesses when according to your view there is only one?
Yes! He is the EMBODIMENT of the LIVING ELOHIM!
@@universe8649I think we trip over the plurality of God because we limit Him and put him in a Human sized box…..we make Him human. I mean creation echos 3’s……Space, Time, Matter…..Solid, Liquid, Gas……Man, Woman, Child…..I could go on and on and on about how creation mirrors The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. His written word bears witness as does the Heavens and Earth.
@vf90045 so true! The WORD reveals God to us not the other way around. We usually read our biases or understanding back into the text and subconsciously skip the parts that completely fly in the face of our accepted theology. THEOLOGY literally means God's Word so our theology needs to be derived completely feom His WORD...both the written and living Word!
Yesss!!! Finally someone who knows the truth! Yeshua is the visible image of the invisible God. Yeshua said that His Father was IN HIM! The Father came in the flesh as the Son. Our God is EVERYTHING!
He is the High Priest and the Sacrifice
King and Prince
Judge and Mediator
Father and Son
Root and Offspring of David
Shepherd and Lamb
The Cornerstone and Capstone
And so much more!!!
My prayer is that all who love the truth will ask Him to reveal Himself, His true identity. He is the Living God who humbled Himself into His own Creation!!!
The Torah forbids a son to marry his father's wife!
The Torah forbids a husband from divorcing his wife and then remarrying her after she married another!!!
Yeshua is the Bridegroom of Israel! He came to die to free His adulteress bride from the first marriage covenant so He could marry Israel again under the new covenant!!!
Yes, God does have a body. Francesca Stavrakopoulou's research conclusively demonstrates this.
lol Stavrakopoulou believes that, in Isaiah’s temple vision in Isaiah 6, the “train of his robe” refers to God’s wiener. It is so massive that it fills the temple. Lady is a nut.
@@DavidWilberBlog , whether her argument about Isaiah 6 is correct or not doesn't negate the fact that her general thesis about God having a physical body aligns with the general consensus among critical scholars. Only orthodox scholars are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
@@jacobmayberry1126 I seriously doubt that's the case. I've only seen such a perspective promoted among fringe academics who enjoy offending religious people. But it doesn't matter because her conclusions don't align with the data, regardless of how many people agree with her. I'd recommend reading Joel Edmund Anderson's review of her book. Take care!
@@DavidWilberBlog fringe? My guy, that is not true in the slightest. She represents the consensus. Doesn't automatically mean she's correct, but let's at least be honest about the consensus here. It's perfectly possible for you to be right and be in the minority. Counting noses is useful but it's not everything.
However, I'd encourage you to read the following books that support her work:
"Embodied God" By Brittany Wilson
"Bodies, Embodiment, and theology of the Hebrew Bible" edited by Tamar Kamionkowski Wonil Kim
"A Human Shaped God" Charles Halton
"God's Body" by Andreas Wagner
"God's Body: Jewish, Christian, and Pagan images of God" by Charles Markschies
"The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel" by Benjamin Sommer
btw, I have no doubt that she overstates her case on the more sexual parts of her argument to offend religious people. However, the general idea that God has a body is not fringe in the slightest. I have my own distrust of liberal scholarship. Since I'm a Latter-day Saint I also have an extreme mistrust of orthodox scholarship as well. They both have blind spots.
@@DavidWilberBlog Is "wiener" a theological term? Sorry bro... I had to ask. 🤣🤣
Anthony, remember that time you you gave a total beat down of Sean Griffins weird heretical doctrine?
That was awesome
Sean's apparent confidence is only matched by his hypocrisy when a person like Anthony/you/me push back against the nonsense he "teaches"
THEN ... he plays the victim for a person confronting his nonsense by claiming gnosticism, false accusations, etc
Thankfully, 50+ watched my chat with him and .. no longer listen to him
He preys on the ignorant and hyper literalists
Essentially exactly what Yeshua warned of ...leading lil ones astray
And
THE poster boy for what Paul warned BOTH Timothy and Titus about
Nothing personal in my reply other than his tactics SHOULD be obvious AND his Kingdom in Seantext cultish "teachings"
I guess tjis is how cults/sects, or at least denominations, get started.
Yeshua/Jesus has always been the Utterance and Manifestation of the Father who is Spirit.
Have you seen this man's behavior? And you consider interviewing him an honor. Upside is getting to see peoples discernment skills.
Stop being so fragile. As I mentioned, the only objection I’ve seen from followers of Sean is to criticize all of his opponents for allegedly being too mean. Even if that were true (it isn’t), it’s irrelevant. Anthony still refuted Sean’s pagan concept of God.
@@DavidWilberBlog Fragile? That's a weird take away. David brother, my wife and I have enjoyed your content for more than a year now, we have followed you, and were fans of you. But you have blinders on brother. I didn't even mention Sean, people always assume a criticism of one side means you are on the other. I'm not a follower of Sean, or a fan of Sean. My statement was on the behavior of Anthony. I'm afraid you are unable to think clearly and Biblically when it comes to the topic of Sean my brother. Just giving you some food for thought. Take care
@@DavidWilberBlog Sean presented in his opening statement many scriptural evidences without mocking Anthony, Sean also presented opposing views using scriptures that Anthony would possibly use, he also presented church fathers evidence in the short timeframe left that he had. In Anthony opening statement: Anthony presentend barely any scriptures, nor did he present any church fathers in any clear fashion, his main focus was to mock Sean. Yet it backfired on him... Seans rebuttal was still respectful and he pointed the many lies or Anthony's misunderstanding of Seans actual position. If David you watched twice the debate and you really believe Anthony performed well... I really do not know what to say then... wow!
@@DavidWilberBlog Wow. Sad. Fruits. What comes out of the mouth. I need to learn saying less is more.
deut 4:15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully,
16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman. Yeshua and Father are one in mind meaning Yeshua perfectly lived out the Father’s love for all his beloved
mark 12:29 The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
The Father can take on any form He wants to. But the Father's visible image is Jesus, the Son.
Yes, We are the image of Him. YAH can Take and Do anything he wants. And we need to seek “Free Will” HIS echad(alignment) . Then we we become HIS Body.
So why stop at the philosophy of the Trinity?
that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one. I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me John 17:21-23
If you believe in the trinity... using your lens of philosophy this verse can actually thought as a quaternity
Thanks, but I’ve never argued for God’s triune nature on the basis of that passage so I’m not sure why you’re citing it. Bible believers affirm the Trinity because of explicit passages like Hebrews 1, John 1, Philippians 2, Colossians 1, etc. Feel free to watch my videos on the topic so that you can respond to my actual exegetical arguments instead of arguments you made up.
@@DavidWilberBlog What I meant: The Main Philosophical Trinity Doctrine of man is defined as: 3 persons = 1 being/essence. Co-EQUAL in Authority, Co-ETERNAL in Existence and Co-SUBSTANTIAL in ESSENCE. Trinitarian claim: The Father and son are both uncreated and have a special *ontology / essence of being* that is unlike and unshared with anything else in all of creation.
Those that believe in the Trinity of three...
Using the Trinitarian doctrine of philosophy this verse can actually thought as a Quaternity... Sounds crazy but why stop at the philosophy of the Trinity?
that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I AM IN YOU, that THEY ALSO MAY BE IN US, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. And THE GLORY THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN TO ME, I HAVE GIVEN TO THEM, in order THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, JUST AS WE ARE ONE. I IN THEM, and YOU IN ME, in order that THEY MAY BE COMPLETED IN ONE, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me John 17:21-23 (QUATERNITY = 4 persons = 1 being: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit and US)
Not that I believe in quaternity at all. I was clearly showing something ridicusless towards the real ridicuslessness of the Trinitarian Philosophical concept of men made doctrine. The trinity is not Scriptural its ridicusless! Man made doctrine of the Trinity is a false doctrine of the likes of Colossians 2:8
@@DavidWilberBlogHi David, I’m interested to hearing your thoughts regarding those passages(except Hebrews 1) in a certain light. If John 10 when quoting psalm 82 equated theos and Elohim, aren’t we presupposing that the instances in the NT referring to Yeshua as theos mean YHVH? Do you have any other passages besides Hebrews 1:10 in mind to justify the specificity of which Elohim? A lot of Unitarian skeptics say because the theos in verse 9 refers to the father that the focus has shifted away from Yeshua in verse 10. Is there any merit to that argument? Thank you, Shabbat Shalom. Yah bless you
@@Mr.dingles Context determines meaning. I think the passages that identify Yeshua as theos are intended to identify him as THE theos, YHWH. I have videos and articles covering a few of those passages in detail and addressing that unitarian objection. Regarding Hebrews 1, I think the unitarian interpretation is entirely contrived. I explain why in my video/article on Hebrews 1.
@@DeLaVieMedia Thanks, but your objection is still bad and my first response to you still applies. If you want to know why Bible believers disagree with you and instead affirm the biblical doctrine of the trinity, you should try to actually understand the biblical basis of our conclusions. I invite you to start by considering my video on Hebrews 1 (it's also an article, if you prefer to read). Hope it helps!
To call a talk that Anthony turned into a pig pen is shameful
Doesn’t make Anthony less wrong about the father not having a body though.
@@universe8649 Anthony goes against Scripture.
Anthony was terrible in the debate. Rude rude rude. All Anthony did was rebut. Anthony jumped so over the place and talked over Sean.
They both interrupted and talked over each other. Only one person is crying about it.
@@DavidWilberBlog I see Sean as a meek and loving person. Even when others don’t consider him a brother. Have you ever changed your mind on anything?
thanks for admitting that Anthony rebutted Sean. And, I might add, he did so excellently. Much love.
@@janiceeastman2610 If you truly care about that stuff, you should know that Sean has an entire RUclips channel dedicated to posting clips of himself dunking on people he disagrees with. He uses disparaging titles and incorporates memes and movie clips for the sole purpose of mocking them. Personally, I don't get offended by that stuff, but Sean's followers have repeatedly informed me that such behavior and mockery is very bad and unChristlike. I hope that they are consistent and will rebuke Sean for his unkindness toward others.
@@janiceeastman2610How people cannot see through the victim charade baffles me
The Father does not have a body. Only the son who has existed alongside the father for eternity has come in the flesh.
John 4:24 Jesus says God is spirit, not God has a spirit nor a spiritual body. In Luke 24:39 Jesus after his resurrection in his glorified body distinguished Spiritual existence by saying “A Spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” This quite clearly indicates sprit is distinct from physical or bodily existence. The father is Spirit he does not have a body. #Trinity
So good! And so true! They belive this because in essence they believe the Father and Son are different God's and this theology plays out terribly in life because it's non biblical! GOD is ECHAD Dueteronomy 6:4 also see James where He speaks of the fact demons (lesser divine beings) know they are echad and they shudder!
Hey so . . . you suppose that Yeshua prayed to himself? Or what's the word if it isn't still a mono-theistic belief? I'd research trinitarianism's origins further, see exactly who where and when it came from, then see if it still makes sense for יה's spirit to impregnate a woman. If you've seen anything on 1 Enoch ever, it was severely punished when/if the angels committed that atrocity. יה keeps his own laws, so . . . Examine it
@@obeyourfatheryah The son did not pray to himself. This demonstrates your lack of understanding with trinitarian beliefs. Throughout the Bible Jesus the son is distinguished from the father yet he is Called God time and time again. John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8 and many, many more. I have researched the trinitarian doctrine and it has been a belief ever since the early church. It is quite clear the son shares the same essence/nature as the father, that nature being DEITY. I would recommend you read Hebrews. We don’t believe there is more than one God nor does God have multi personality disorder, but we believe God is One. Read Matthew 28:19 for more.
After Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, they understood they are naked. After that, as they hear the FOOTSTEPS of HaSham, that HaSham came in their direction (very clear to me), and calls their names, they covered theirself, for they were naked.
In my opinion, that means, that HaSham has a body. Even Moses couldnt see him, but was allowed to see his back.
I agree with you, that HaSham doesnt need a form to exist, but you also cannot cut him off from the attribute, that he cannot enter a human form, like we have. Its unscriptural. To say that someone is human, just mean, that he is only a human and cannot shift. But HaSham can enter the human form, but in the next time he can shift that form again and doesnt need any form itself.
We can not (or are allowed to) see him, because of our sins, it is said. This means, we can see him, if we are without sin, and the Messiah also is able to see him. I think, we shouldnt deny his physical appereance, which is in line with the scripture, if there is no proof by the Scriptures, who denies our interpretation of these verses.
Is there a scriptural proof, for your point of view? Maybe you can share with us. Shalom.
If it was an “honor” to you talking to someone who displays none of what any believer is called to be when dealing with others (even if they disagree) then you don’t have the discernment I thought you had. Mr. Rogers gave the body of Christ a black eye with his behavior. I wouldn’t spend ten minutes in his church if he had one.
If you truly care about that stuff, you should know that Sean has an entire RUclips channel dedicated to posting clips of himself (supposedly) dunking on people he disagrees with. He uses disparaging titles and incorporates memes and movie clips for the sole purpose of mocking them. Personally, I don't get offended by that stuff, but Sean's followers have repeatedly informed me that such behavior and mockery is very bad and unChristlike. I hope that they are consistent and will rebuke Sean for his unkindness toward others.
In addition, Sean regularly interrupts people in self moderated debates he called “discussions.” Furthermore, Sean passive aggressively takes personal jabs, insults, and talks down to people who disagree with him.
Simple because he “politely” repeats “brother” when he interrupts does not excuse Sean’s own behavior.
In any case, I’m far less concerned with Sean’s behavior in these debates, it’s his doctrine that is enormously concerning and dangerous.
@@LanternMediaMinistryAnd ... when a person does not allow this ... ME ... he plays the victim
If Jesus is deity is Gabriel and Michael also ?
No, angels are not God. Hebrews 1 is explicit that the Son is greater than the angels.
@@DavidWilberBlog
But Angels speak for GOD as GOD .
Angels can speak for GOD , as GOD , with the authority of GOD .
Many examples of this .
Genesis 16:10 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
Exodus 3:2 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.
Numbers 22:35 (KJV)
And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
Judges 2:1 (KJV)
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
All these are Angels speaking for GOD , as GOD .
The Angel of the LORD said “ I “ he was just speaking for GOD as GOD in all these verses .
@@jimharmon2300 Each of those passages are referring to the name-bearing angel, which I take to be referring to the pre-incarnate Messiah.
@@DavidWilberBlog
John 17:21 (KJV)
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So Jesus being one with the FATHER and we be one with him .
Would it not be reasonable to say all Angels are also as one with the FATHER ?
And how many legions of Angels did Jesus say the FATHER has ?
Thanks for your answer .
When asked by Phillip to show him the Father, how did Yeshua respond?
David, did you just like your own comment?
Of course I liked my own comment. My comments are amazing. Who wouldn’t like them?
@@DavidWilberBlog😂
I was looking at that too, he hearts his own comments too. Hearts others that share lies about the scriptures as well, mocks those who are actually trying to search the scriptures. I have lost respect for David.
Yah bless.
Be honest. You never respected me. I have ALWAYS openly opposed the unbiblical ideas pushed by people like Sean.
@@Tracy-InchesNo ... David and 99.99% of actual teachers are concerned about you and listening to peeps like Sean.
Why mock flat earth? So let’s mock creation too? I lost respect for David now. Laughing at someone’s beliefs.
I’ve criticized the unbiblical notion of modern flat earthism for years.
fully agree...I don't know why 119 associated with him... Zachary Bauer debunked everything David presented on Enoch and the Enoch reference of messiah verse of R.H Charles that David quotes... David also lost my respect mocking Sean!
@@DeLaVieMediaBe honest. You’ve never had respect for me to begin with. And Zach “debunked” nothing. He just spouted verifiably false claims, as I demonstrated in my response to him. He claimed that no scholars agree with me about Enoch being identified as the Messiah in 1 Enoch 71:14-I literally quoted dozens who do. Even R.H. Charles himself admits that he purposely mistranslated the text and that the actual text does indeed identify Enoch as the Messiah (see the footnotes in his translation). Charles “emended” the text in his translation for theological reasons, but his translation has no textual basis. I don’t know why you guys keep lying about what the text of 1 Enoch explicitly says. Do you think if you keep repeating these false claims enough that they magically become true?
@@DavidWilberBlog Honestly I did have respect for you until now... And this has nothing to do with Sean. It dosenˋt matter who you would acted this way towards. Your fruit has gone bad and its showing! As for Enoch I already responded in another post on this feed.
@@DavidWilberBlog go outside and look at the ocean. That’s enough for me.
Listen. Sean needs views. Controversy = Viewership
It's where he makes his money.
Thats not evil, he just knows how to generate revenue.
I also dont believe in the Trinity, is that a dealbreaker for your fellowship @DavidWilberBlog
Not believing in the trinity is a dealbreaker for most Christian’s. Simply put either you are modalistic in theology, or Unitarian, both of which are not biblical. The son is clearly distinguished from the father but both father and son are called God quite clearly. I don’t understand how you can’t be trinitarian.