@@Natasha.Louisee Fr, bc I’m in Y7 (as of rn) and there is an idol called Seowon (UNIS) who is literally 12. 12. That’s the age I’m turning this year. Seriously, what has KPOP come to? What happened to debuting well trained adults??
@@Hanni._.Bubblegum. my sister was born in 2011, she's turning 13 this year, and it's so scary to see all these scarily young idols debuting, like they're just growing, they are so unexperienced in life... the parents who let their kids debut at such young ages should be held accountable tbh...
social awareness is SEVERELY lacking in kpop fans it’s insane, the companies know EXACTLY what they are doing to attract attention to their idols by sexualizing them and using minors to do it, they know EXACTLY how people are going to view Eunchae doing the Smart choreography
People try so hard to defend open sexualisation of minors by calling the people calling it out weird for even thinking like that as if it’s not being shoved in our face. There’s nothing to the imagination it’s just blatant
i was stressed enough worrying about test scores at their ages, i can't imagined being worried about being harassed by netizens. and (probably) being in debt for basically no training which i'll also get bullied for at the same time? my mental health would be a train wreck
Damn. Not even a hs freshman yet and already on display for the world to see. But considering BoA was the same age when she debuted in 2000 it's not surprising
i remember when cookie came out and i listened to it one time read the lyrics and refused to listen to it. and when i told people that i feel uncomfy listening to them people tell me that i'm weird for it and a hater.
Another mention is Ni-Ki from Enhypen, he was a minor when he debuted and is the most s3xualied member and I can’t begin to imagine what he has been through
i dunno where i saw this but someone said that companies probably debut minors because then they have more control and are able to mould them in a way they want. like if you have a fully grown adult debut, they’re obviously capable of speaking for themselves and are more likely to speak out agains the company. on the other hand a minor wouldn’t even dare because first, age difference and secondly they also lack life experience and are also more likely to be dismissed by the adults who are managing them. this is so incomprehensible to me like this literally shows how messed up the kpop industry is and how manipulative the companies are
The only problem with that generalization is that, in actuality, in probably around 90% of the cases involving top idols in the big entertainment companies, the companies have to deal with the parents of the minors. Many of the idols come from relatively wealthy family backgrounds and their parents aren't dummies. (Just as an example, Blackpink Jennie's mom is apparently a major shareholder and director of Korea's largest media contents company and appears to be a branch of one of Korea's big "chaebol" dynasties. As the problems with the group Fifty-Fifty and New Jeans have revealed, when serious concerns arise, it's the parents of the group members who get involved. Contracts can't actually be enforced against minors, so if any of these companies tried to cut out the parents or guardians and sign a contract directly with a minor, the minor could just walk away any time.
It dawned on me yesterday, that its so bad because, the most recent Kpop show I-land two literally has all minors and everyone is younger then me (I'm 20). Then a girl (who's 19) states in the show "I'm a little old". Like how does that make any sense WTFFF
How old was Michael Jackson when he debuted as an idol? Donny Osmond? BoA Kwon? Minzy (of 2NE1)? Miley Cyrus? Why do some people think that this is some new weird thing coming out of Kpop? Pop music has ALWAYS been mainly focused on teen-agers, both as fans and as idols. The very successful idols can continue having careers in their twenties and thirties, but they can rarely start that late. George Harrison was 17 when the Beatles formed as a group in 1960. Anyone who is against "minors" being involved in pop music...has to basically be against pop music.
It made me think of Jiwoo from RUNext bc I think it was said the same for her(?) since she was the older contestant than the other girls and I think she says something like “It’s my last chance to debut as I’m getting old now to debut” along those lines and I’m like “??? Girl you’re 22!” (At the time)
@TEAM__POSEID0N it's not necessarily the age it's how it's dealt with. Mj and the beatles had age appropriate music and concepts during that time. They weren't doing suggestive moves in skimpy outfits.
@@watashi5700 I guess it depends on what you mean by "suggestive moves". But, yeah, skimpy outfits were more generally frowned upon back then. The point though is that it's not bad per se for young people to be performers if that's what they want to do. Not all groups are presented the same way. If people want to criticize Lolita concepts and things like that, fine. But too often what we're seeing is weird people asserting that there has to be an absolute ban on minors being in show business, without making any distinction, as though non-famous minors in regular schools are automatically safer and better protected and all labels and groups present minors in the exact same ways.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N You’re comparing apples to oranges. No one has a problem with minors being idols. The PROBLEM comes when they’re over sexualized, forced into unhealthy dietary habits, incredibly overworked, etc etc. And where are these problems more common than anywhere else? The Kpop industry. Also, it is a weird new thing coming out of Kpop because they ACTIVELY LOOK FOR MINORS… like dude, you’re being obtuse for no reason.
22:42 also, take a look at Japanese music/media industry, having teens be photographed in bikinis, perform in front of crowds filled with men over the age of 40 and generally debuting kids, not even teens but literally 11 year olds is actually really common there (not to even start when it comes to their weird depiction of teens in anime)- Asia generally has a weird obsession with a youthful image and debuting minors makes it obviously a lot easier for them to sell their groups to the public. Might be a far reach, but at the end of the day it’s most often than not old men sitting behind these companies and their decisions, now considering that it’s common to have full grown men that are pushing 50 still crushing on 20 year olds, it‘s not hard to put 2 and 2 together here and see the obvious answer of why minors are sexualised. It’s disgusting but the sad reality of it.
The fact that le sserafim were compared to and accused of "copying" tyla, an artist literally known for her sexy dance moves, should tell you enough about the wrongness of this
I will say I had no idea AOA had minors when they debuted. I never thought about any of this until New jeans debuted with more minors in it. I definitely think it’s bc back in the day we were unaware bc we were used to pop stars getting huge at 16 and it was super normalized. I have been into kpop since 2011. I didn’t start getting concerned until the KPOP community raised concerns from New Jeans and the scandal with past kid shows on Nickelodeon-came to light.
18 is also not the magical number where it suddenly becomes great to do these concepts, like 18 is still really fucking young. Think of Nine Muses who spoke about feeling exploited for their concept even though they were all over 18 at debut.
Just a note on AOA, Chanmi was a minor in Korea for Miniskirt-Short hair-Like a cat promos and had a joined stage with Red velvet's Joy and Apink's Hayoung when they turned adults in 2015, covering adult ceremony. It's so fucked up. Also the people who say it's a new problem make me want to scream, like Hyuna and Krystal were so sexualised when they were 14-15????
Don't like this trend of debuting minors, and I just don't follow the groups that have them. As an older adult I would feel creepy stanning children and supporting the exploitation of minors.
It's not a new trend at all. You can go back to the 1990s in Kpop and find the same thing. What's silly is all of these newbie Kpop fans who think they've discovered some new scandalous development in Kpop. Minzy of 2NE1 debuted in 2009 at age 15 at around the same age as Rora and Chiquita of Babymonster, and started her trainee status when she was in elementary school. G Dragon did also. How old do people think Michael Jackson was when he debuted? Pop music has always been targeted at very young people both as the main demographic for fans and as the age of the idols. When did Miley Cyrus start her idol career? Stop pretending like this is some new horrible thing that's coming out of Kpop. In reality, Kpop and pop music are not careers that can easily be started by someone in their twenties and thirties. Look at BoA, now in her thirties, she's already considered old and at or near the end of her career as an idol. She was recruited in 1998 by SM Entertainment when she was 12 years old and debuted at age 14. It's a career path for very young people. People who think otherwise simply have not been paying attention.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N I didn't say it is "new", but you keep mentioning that word. The way Disney Channel kids and western artists are viewed and consumed is not the same as kpop groups hence the concern.
The thing that disturbs me with how people minimise the dance move is that they blame you for being, their words : a creep Bc you complained about how a certain move is sexual because in their words, thinking it as such is you being a weirdo
Everything you said in this video is soo true. Nowadays (especially because of tiktok) sexualised behaviour of minors is normalised and the minors themselves don’t see it as wrong ( from personal witness of minors doing this as a minor myself ). This video well written. ~ have a good rest of your day 🙃
The nwjns situation with cookie actually pissed me off cus how tf r u going to say that i am the problem when mhj has a history of giving sensual concepts and songs to groups with minors in it like lets stop lying oml. and maybe its just me, but I find it hypocritical that the same ppl who complain abt minors debuing r the same ppl who put moneyh in the companies pockets by buying albums and streaming from a group with minors in it like girl u do NOT give a fuck abt the minors lol
I'm a newer listener of kpop, and I agree wholeheartedly while avoiding New Jeans music just for this on principle. This may sound odd to a lay person, but because I'd really wish that people as young as the NJ members are treated as well as possible, I feel like I'd paradoxically not want to encourage demand for their music. And even if mhj's past was hypothetically not shady at all and NJ are actually being treated well, the issue is that their success would continue to encourage others to a trend for debuting younger idols as well, who aren't guaranteed to be given safeguards from abusive environments either :/
100% agree! And then they wait for the minor to turn 18 bcs then it's okay and they're suddenly "mature"? I've seen people wait for Niki and Wonyoung to turn 18... It's weird. Now they're waiting for Eunchae and Haerin. I hate it... The Garam hate broke my heart too I remember how quickly everyone switched up and the people saying "when are you gonna leave that pedestrian alone" were 100% the people harassing her. Also the hate train is so unfair and it wasn't a clever move of hybe at all. However I have to speak on the comparison to Ateez, since when Ateez debuted and even when they were a younger group than le sserafim is now, they still had the singing skills. Of course they improved them but I'd say they were better at debut than le sserafim is now. Also you're literally so gorgeous??!?
I'm a rare (?) 40+ year old kpop lover. Which makes me old enough to be these kids mom. I knew going in there were minors debuting, and about many of the issues that can arise. But some of these companies just aren't protecting these kids enough. Especially in the modern era with netizens always piling on these kids! I'm not surprised Sakura has had to take a hiatus. Hybe especially should do better. They are acting as the "parent" so to speak, and a bug part of a parents job is protecting the kids!
There's nothing necessarily wrong with minors debuting in Kpop or pop. It's the kind of career path that is more difficult to start in your twenties and thirties. The ones who start younger often have an easier time adapting to the negative aspects. I get people complaining about particular types of content that can be problematic. But people who act like teen-agers being involved in pop music is some disturbing new trend simply haven't been paying attention. The whole industry is basically focused on teen-agers as fans and as idols. One of Korea's most famous idols, BoA Kwon, was recruited to SM Entertainment in 1998 when she was 12, debuted when she was 14 and now, in her thirties, is considered old and semi-retired. That's the nature of pop music. Michael Jackson, the Jacksons, the Osmonds, Miley Cyrus, etc., etc., all the teen "heart throbs" of the 1970s, 80s and 90s. G-Dragon (of Big Bang) was in elementary school when he started his career in Kpop. So was Minzy of 2NE1. Ironically, the person in 2NE1 who had the hardest time dealing with negativity from so-called "netizens" was the member who debuted when she was 25. The younger members were able to deal much better. It depends on the person really.
The problem I have with people saying "minors have always been in kpop" is that it feels like the person is telling you to stop complaining, but we should not, because is just weird to me that 27 feels old in kpop, like why? 27 is not old for artist in the west. Can we allow older people to have a career too, It will probably be so beneficial, they would have more training time.
There's not problem with people complaining about it....if they're basically just complaining about the whole pop music industry as a whole. People saying that "minors have always been in kpop" are mainly responding to the silly way that many people are now acting like it's some new thing and new trend that they want to stop. Minors in pop music was a thing long before Michael Jackson debuted at age 4 o 5 or whatever. George Harrison was 17 when the Beatles formed as a group. "27 is not old for artist in the west." True, but you're usually talking about someone who started long before age 27. Even people who only became famous in their twenties, almost always were active in club, busking and other musical venues when they were teen-agers. Ironically, minor idols at one of the bigger, reputable Kpop management companies are statistically probably safer and better protected than similarly aged kids going to school. The only difference is that because ordinary kids facing horrible problems in ordinary schools are not famous...you don't think about them and don't care.
I think once I became an older teen around 16/17 (I’m 24 now) I became uncomfortable when idols who were like 12 and 14 were debuting. I was an ARMY from debut and because I was younger than them it seemed normal for 16 yr old to be an idol. There’s not enough protections in place to protect these kids. I was well aware of the scandals by 16 such as slave contracts and minors being trapped in predatory contracts being forced to push their bodies to their extreme etc that I drifted away from K-POP. Its child exploitation. I’ve started listening to K-POP again recently but I found myself researching the members ages before I start listening to them for real. Its weird to stan minors. Making the older young adult members literally raise their minor members was insane. Like Seventeen having to take care of a literal child member while in the dorms is insane. I’m really into Kiss of Life. All the members are adults and have been training for years and it shows in their vocal ability, stage presence, dance ability etc that they’ve been training for years.
I think we should acknowledge that during debut, haneul was a minor in Korea and all the other members were barley adults. Like said in the video, you don’t just suddenly have the maturity to make these decisions or have the sense to not be manipulated. Also it kind of feels weird calling people who should be in college a “ mature adult” because of the concept or the fact that they are 18 and over.
goddd i haaaate when people go “noo its not sexual YOU’RE the one sexualizing” like man😭😭 What..and also for the eunchae argument like Yeah sure..inherently some moves in it aren’t sexual but would a big ass greedy company care about the actual background of these dances?? no ofc not they want to market these girls to weirdos..man and ppl will go “minor safety!!” and stan groups like tripleS and idk young posse
Straight up subscribed. Can´t agree more that minors in kpop doing sexual lyrics, dance moves is an issue. People generally shouldn´t debut as minors alltogether.
i think people don't have a problem with minors in kpop, they have a problem with not being able to sexualize idols in a socially acceptable way. debuting minors in newer generations means having less sexual concepts (thankfully, because, as you mentioned, the sexy concepts older groups with minors had to do were just disgusting). i can't help but notice that people who constantly complain about the lack of sexy concepts in newer gens blame the minors in groups for it. kiss of live is constantly praised for their sexy concept and that "this is what we can get when we don't debut minors", when one of their members turned 18 3 months before she debuted, she's barely legal. these people literally just want to be able to sexualise the idols without being called p*dos and i will die on this hill. if they actually cared about minors, the concepts they can or can't do wouldn't even cross your mind as a reason to keep minors away from the industry.
No. I don’t think this take is even 80% of people talking about this topic. I get what you’re saying but We (I mean me) don’t like minors debuting because companies don’t consider their age when they think of concepts. Even twice, who had a VERY cute concept had a 16 year old Tzuyu dance erotically in an elevator for an advertisements. It’s not the concept, it’s the companies inability to manage minor members. The concept doesn’t matter, sexualisation affects all idols regardless. In an ideal world idols wouldn’t have sexy concepts unless they really want it (of which we will never know) I also do not stan kiss of life for this very reason. They seem to enjoy what they do but we don’t know that for sure. I prefer concepts like bad villain. They’re sassy but not erotic? If that makes any sense. Also I wanna keep minors away from the industry because kpop as a whole is just not minor friendly. The whole business model is framing the idol to be the perfect boyfriend/boyfriend for the fans so regardless if sexual concepts exist or not it’s still not appropriate to frame a minor as the perfect girlfriend for fan service
@@Natasha.Louisee i completely agree with you. maybe i worded my comment wrong, but i wasn't talking about you specifically or defending minors in the industry. it was just a thought i've had for a while and finally found a place to express it. like you, i think the biggest problem with minors in the industry is how younger people simply shouldn't be exposed to the exploitation and pressure present in kpop, plus they have to give up their whole childhood to debut at such a young age. it's a recipe for trauma and horrible mental health issues, some of which have been talked about by idols who debuted at those ages and reget it. as you said, concept has nothing to do with it, all we have to do is look at how sexualized school girl uniforms are in the industry. or how all of gfriend were treated when they had the most innocent sound possible. people are gonna be sexualizing idols regardless, so we can at least protect minors from having to experience it during their formative years. and i agree with your take on kol. some of their music is good, but i don't think i can ever stan them because the concept is just a lot for such young girls, even if they aren't minors. sure, they may look like they're enjoying it, but i also did things when i was 20 that i enjoyed, and at 23 i already realise how bad they were for me and how much risk they put me in at the time. we also can't be sure they truly want to be perceived this way, so sexy concepts from groups that aren't fully grown adults just rub me the wrong way. i don't know bad villain, but that type of concept sounds interesting, so i think i'll check it out. i do think that it's far more that around 20% of people who just want sexier concepts, at least from my experience, but maybe i just got really unlucky with the fan spaces i've been exposed to. i'd much rather if it really was just a really vocal minority.
i think SM started the debuting minor trend ( TVXQ, all of f(x) except for Victoria , Taemin Shinee at 14), esp with how big they eventually became even as a solo artists. but it became normalized and even became a trend with NCT Dream, ( no hate to the artists just facts) because they debuted with cute concepts under a big company, no one really bat an eye or find it problematic. and how in the long run nct Dream became so largely successful really egged other companies on to debut younger and younger. Now with wonyoung (debuted in izone when 14yr old) as the IT girl of Korea, everyone wants to have their trainees groomed ( not s3xu4l way ) into the next It Girl as soon as possible.
0:57 I’m in my 30s so I’m the same age as 2nd gen. For a while I did feel like it was a new thing, because I had forgotten that I had been about the same age as the 2nd gen girls. Meaning, when I was 14, of course I didn’t see a problem with 15 year old idols. Back then I didn’t even blink knowing SNSD joined their company at 12. So many years passed and because I was looking at the new idols with fresh eyes in my late 20s and early 30s, I didn’t think to look back until I saw a comment on a video point it out. Then I heard 2nd gen idols talk about their experiences being exploited and harassed when they were so young. Compilations of concepts that were not age appropriate. Hyuna releasing a music video and song with lyrics that just… were so uncomfortable yet enlightening. So I don’t know about the other people, but those my age have been speaking out against the exploitation of minors and debuts of 13 and 14 year olds because of all the evidence from generations past. We’ve seen 4 generations of debuts. And every time we speak it feels like the young kids who are in their teens that defend it, because just like us back then they don’t grasp why it’s problematic. However, I will never understand why they don’t listen-back in the 2000s and 2010s, nobody was telling us it was problematic but I think I would’ve tried to understand instead of getting defensive if they had.
Oh dang, you hate HyunA? 😅 I’m curious why. Yes, I’d like to see a video on it. I know she’s unorthodox but hate is a strong word so yeah, I’d love to hear more.
One thing that I find infurating about the minor in kpop convo is that people will ignore the problem when the idol is underage and then retroactively change their mind and act like they always knew it was a problem. Like look at Niki from enhypen who was always showing up in videos with the (18+) in the title while he was not 18 himself, and whenever people brought this up people told them that it wasn't bad because it was probably other teenager doing it. But now he's gone viral dancing to "not like us" as an 18 year old and everyone is like "yes call out the pedo's" ummm hello? that was what everyone has been saying since he was 14 but we're only gonna acknowledge it when he becomes an adult. It's just proof that they know it's wrong but still want to stream, but having to acknowledge that they are encouraging this behaviour upsets them so they instead just pretend it doesn't exist until it has become an non-issue.
I was a fan during the time when Jungkook was a minor, and I don't know if this was done by the fans or by the company (probably both), but he was kind of marketed toward older female fans. I remember a big emphasis on infantilizing him and older fans getting excited about being called 'noona' by him. Very much selling the relationship dynamic of older women and younger boys. It was very overwhelming.
the fact that when you call out outfits, dance moves, lyrics or concepts that dont suit minors, YOU get called weird and a creep... like im sorry i dont think 16 yos should wear mini skirts in front of strangers
@@CalixteOpokudut ruclips.net/video/pq4Z9A6HUcA/видео.htmlsi=6UVyybLnSdKQTxYz I kinda went into it in this video~ this was my response to that situation 💐💐
I'm a 16yo and there are so many idols who are younger than me. Seowon from UNIS is 12. My brother is almost as old as that, he's 11. My f*cking baby brother, who was born in 2013 and is a literal child, is almost as old as her!!! How messed up as a parent do you have to be, to allow your CHILD to be an idol and to be in this industry??
as someone who used to be an army when jungkook was underaged, i remember when people made call out posts for people writing smut about him would usually end up harassed and supported in equal parts. whats surprising a lot of the people defending writing smut about a kid were mostly adults :( this happened again when nct dream were mostly underaged too. i still cant believe nsfd (not safe for dream) was actually a thing. every other day there were long posts spreading the usernames of these people to get the suspended and far too many were adults too.
I am glad you covered this. Hopefully, more people discussing this would stop the industry from exploiting minors. One incident that comes to my mind was when: 16yrs old Tzuyu was made to apologize for representing her own flag, she was caught in a political tension between nations. She looked very scared at that time. They did not care that she was just a child. JYPE did not protect her, they only wanted to save their reputation, and forced Tzuyu in front of the camera, even though it wasn't her fault. This is one of the many reason why they should not debut so early, the industry is quite ruthless, a child should not have to deal with the burden of being the face of the company.
The worst thing for the Lesserafm one is that she is almost near the CENTER whenever THOSE moves are done and thats so wtf. Like they could just leave her out of it man. Like choreo it to be in good taste and do it well!
@stargirIll cause I've got bigger problems to deal in life. One song with questionable lyrics that I can't understand since I don't speak Korean really won't make me stop liking a group that has many other amazing songs and likable members. If you don't wanna be a fan, then don't. Don't tell me how to live my life
I agree with almost everything in this video. But a lot of people have said that The magnetic mv is weird. There're screenshots of scenes from the mv and the fact that the mv's director has a history of uploading weird stuff 👀 i didn't see it until the posts came out but...
I did see a video about it but I think it’s a little bit of a reach. Idk how to feel about it and I’d prefer it if none of the ILLIT members were minors but I think a lot of people are searching for it to sensationalise the group for views which tbh is another reason minors shouldn’t be in the industry
@@Natasha.Louisee Fr I watched the mv and I honestly didn't notice it until I saw the reviews. People were ACTUALLY zooming in on puzzle peices. I honestly love illit and I think wonhee and Iroha have been treated considerably good in terms of outfits and safety (apart from Iroha's lgs skirt controversy) but it doesn't make it right. Even during R U next someone wrote a fan fiction s*xualizing wonhee on wattpad BEFORE she even debuted. It's heartbreaking 😕😕
If the companies actually put some effort and care into managing their minor members properly it wouldn’t be such an issue but they blatantly just do not care at all for their well being only if they’re bringing in money. People zooming in and fabricating some kinda exploitation scandal is so gross to me, it’s almost like they WANT them to be being exploited so they can enjoy the drama
@@Natasha.Louisee it's all rage bait and using minors for clout is honestly disgusting🤢 I honestly don't know how to fell about people my age debuting (I'm 15) and being treated like this when they just want to live their dream 😮💨😮💨😮💨
All great points. If it was my choice, debuts wouldn’t be allowed until you graduate high school. And of course, certain concepts wouldn’t be allowed until 20. I know 19 (global age) is now the age of majority in Korea, but I’m not feeling it AT ALL. You’re still a teenager. People always say “oh you’re gross if you see it like that” but other than creeps, the other demographic most prone to spotting this type of stuff are victims of SA and predatory behavior. Of course others can spot it as well, but I hate the rhetoric that seeing it as such means you’re the creep. That retort is infuriating because we’re just survivors trying to prevent the cycle from being repeated.
i feel like another issue that isn't talked about a lot (or at all) is how people treat 18-year-olds like full-grown adults. the double standards between a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old in the industry is crazy, yet i never see anyone bringing it up. the idols that are the most affected by this are enhypen's ni-ki and kiss of life's haneul, both born in 2005. for example, when eunchae, turning 18 this year, does the choreography for smart, everyone's ready to throw hands (it's justified though), but when 18-year-old haneul does the choreo in nobody knows, everyone's praising the group and calling them 'grown women doing grown women choreography'. (rest in comments)
Yesss this annoys me so much! It's not like your brain suddenly fully matures when you turn 18. They're still extremely young and definitely not grown either.
Ikr!! The second you turn 18 all your protections are ripped away (not that they have a lot of protection anyway) and it’s not like you wake up on your birthday and are a whole new person. This isn’t even just in kpop, look what happened with Emma Watson.
K-Netizens are folks who don't give a shit about whatever your going through all they want is you "stay single " "you're to slim" or "you're to fat" is insane.....and minors and also adult kpop idols who dropped out of school still get ridiculed for it....imagine missing freaking 10yrs of your childhood doesn't make any sense....they can't put a sixteen years old on diet means they don't care about their health.....they shouldn't blame illit for their vocals they should blame the company for not preparein them properly before they debut
Let’s face it we live in a porn saturated society where unwell people will fantasize about these young girls. Having underage girls dress in skimpy outfits and performing sexually suggestive dances is extremely disturbing and feeds into this porn culture. Baby monster has members who are under the age of 15 I believe. They need to stop debuting literal children. Not to mention the sexualization, the criticism, the pressure, the insane fans. It’s too much for a child that young. What are their parents thinking?
I LOVE HEEEER!!! Taemin from Shinee was 15 when debuting and the Jungkook thing was out of order I was into kpop back then and as a minor myself at that time it was uncomfi to say the least. It all feels new cause now there's also so many youtubers that mak videos about kpop etc
23:12 I kinda get what you meant but it’s not always the case. Like Seungri from Big band debuting at 15 and look at where he ended up with the burning sun scandal… with debuting minors there is a lot of manipulation that goes into it as well but also rebellion
Obviously people just by looking at it don't see the problem so it's deeper than just "this is bad, you're dumb for not knowing" do you realize you're talking to a lot of kids here? The problem begins before the debut, and before they even begin training
Aoa debuted in 2012 but they didn't have a sexy concept till later. Miniskirt was released in 2014 and chanmi was 18 when it was released. The first two years in AOA's career were the generic 2012 like concepts but also them as a band! There are questionable dance moves but nothing on the same level as mini skirt. EXID too, Jeonghwa was 20 when they released up and down which was a significant concept change since their earlier stuff. If you want to argue that every night was mature too, she was 18 in that video. I think a better example would have been 9muses.
i find it so so so sad how hybe went from having/collecting very very well respected groups like bts, svt, gfriend (im so salty about what happened to gfriend btw), txt and then doing whatever the fuck they are doing right now. like, I remeber a time when big hit ent (ent was the big one, the one that became hybe,) was such a beloved name for creating bts and txt, man, i miss those times
21:54 I actually LOVE this video and I agree. Whenever minors in the entertainment industry are discussed, people just say “No child idols or child actors” and call it a day instead of really digging into the reason it’s harmful in the first place. Kids and teens should be able to live out their dreams and be in the industry if that’s what they want. But they have to be properly taken care of and protected. Don’t boot young people out, boot out the toxicity. Exploitation, harmful work conditions, and predators shouldn’t be allowed or tolerated. The kids should have things like a good working environment and healthy workload, plenty of rest, safeguarding from toxicity online, age appropriate music, clothing, and content, physical and mental health care, etc. The entertainment industry as a whole needs to change, tbh, because adults suffer in it too. I wish more people put more thought into the issue instead of just waving it off or thinking “That’s just the way things are 🤷♀️”. Not to mention the major double standards and hypocrisy of kpop stans on the internet. Almost every single fith gen and 4th gen groups have minors in them under companies who have HORRIBLE reputations, but you’ll have people trying to shame one and not the others for fan wars and whatnot 💀
As a 16 year old who ults lesserafim I knew that smart had sexual moves just by listening to the song. I LOVE the song. Not the dance. Even I feel uncomfortable seeing the girls do the moves and I feel bad for eunchae as she's nearly 18 but she's NOT 18. So it's not an excuse that she'll be 18 soon. The hate train is absolutely disgusting. Coachella was OK. There were good moments but also bad moments, but that's ok. Whenever I criticse my ULT group I basically get shunned out of the fandom. Like you can critise them but still LOVE them. The whole newjeans and ill it thing is disgusting. I LOVE AND FEEL BAD FOR BOTH GROUPS but omg did people not realising how sexual cookie was ? And also, ill it have been receiving UNWANTED, UNJUSTIFIED, amounts of hate since debut and HYBE haven't done anything like legal action or filtering comments ( this goes w the hate train w fimmies too ). Moral of the story, *PROTECT MINORS*
I think one of the only companies who's handling having a minor in their group well is STARSHIP & even they aren't doing that well (they could've handled Leeseo's hate train WAY better)
I think the problem with the minor thing in 5th gen is that most of the group members are minors when before hand you had one or two or even three or half and half, not almost all of them. But seriously, minors should seriously stop debuting so early. This is really so sad, imo
i think a lot of people also might not see the problem because they're used to this. and we shouldn't be!! it fucks me up that we are exposed to terrible things so young that we end up with a skewed view of everything
for the coachella one, they've been directly compared to aespa, who's more apple to apple of a comparison career wise when they performed there, and still didn't hold a candle. in conclusion? it's a real skill issue on top of a mismanagement, let's not disqualify that.
i totally agreed with these points. i don't have problems with minors debuting in a kpop group unless they're under 15 or if they're doing sexual concepts. Likee New Jeans is ok to me since they're a cutesy concept (except cookie) but Le Serrafim isn't since Eunchae is too young for many of their dances. I wished the standard min age to debut was 15/16. Same with Unis, yeah they're kinda cutesy but their maknae is wayyyy too young.
As someone who has been in a school, I find this interesting because minors sexualize themselves all the time. There have been instances where students, particularly schoolgirls, would create their own choreographies for events such as school anniversaries, and guess what? They were pretty sexual, at least through the same lens we've been using for K-pop. They themselves wanted to be seen sexually. Of course, there is definitely a difference between dancing in front of your school and dancing in front of pretty much the whole world, but still, what is the reason for them to feel the need to dance in a sexual way in front of others? Just to be clear, I am NOT defending the sexualization of minors AT ALL.
If a 17 yr old can get married with parents consent in South Korea then nobody should have any issues with an Idol at 17 who's obviously also had the parents consent, Infact if the Idol isn't your child then you should mind your business and stop trying to dictate what other parents do. Unless you don't have a problem with someone telling you what your kids should or shouldn't be doing.
i was with you throughout the whole video until towards the end you decided to start shitting on lesserafim. you people need to stop exaggerating about how “bad” the coachella performance was. was it the best stage in the world? not at all. i agree that the girls need to work more on their vocals but they have been. but it doesn’t help that hybe keeps giving them songs that are not in their range and they also heavily auto tune their music so it’s almost impossible to sound like the studio version. but the stage overall was not as terrible as yall are making it out to be. did you watch the whole thing or just the clips people love to cut together to make it look worse than it was? the vocals ok we get it it wasn’t the greatest but they had everything else. they had stage presence, they were doing full choreography while trying to sing fully live (something very rare in kpop nowadays), and they connected with the audience who all said they had a great time watching them in person. easy to judge when you’re sitting your ass watching on the couch waiting for something to complain about. but like i said you’re right about everything else.
Uh? I’ve defended the fuck out of Lesseraphim so much. The performance was bad vocally. People are allowed to have their opinions on that. I hate the amount of crap Lesseraphim gets and I actively defend them 90% of the time and I feel like most of the hate they get is completely baseless. I actually made a WHOLE VIDEO saying what you just said to me. I dedicated a whole video to defending Lesseraphims performance because I think people expect too much
In my video I stated that I hate that Lesseraphim is getting compared to other idols who attended Coachella when those idols have many many more years of experience than Lesseraphim. And that it’s very hard to dance and sing at the same time and the reason idols don’t do it anymore is because of the hypercritical nature of people online. I also blamed HYBE in the video, that they shouldn’t have sent them to Coachella so early in their careers and gave them more adequate training. I also pointed out that the hate has been misdirected to the girls when it should be directed at their company
Her issue is K-pop. All her videos are about her views on K-pop. So I would say people like her are the biggest problem in K-pop brand new fans, learning K-pop from someone who says likes K-pop but makes videos of all the things she thinks is bad about it. 😈
As older as you get in Kpop, the more critical you get about how this whole industry works, that's just natural, not to mention the fact that as older you get, the more critical thinking skills you develop, which makes you criticize things you like regardless of your love
BLACKPINK also had two years of experience when they went to Coachella along with those tours yes but so did lesserafim. There's really no excuse for how bad Le sserafim did especially comparing them to BLACKPINK when their situations were very similar were. BLACKPINK were rookies when they went to Coachella and so were lessafum they were both two years into the careers and had tour experience under their belts. lesserafim just didn't do good. They had the same advantages.
Asians do not see it that way, we are not asians, stop imposing your views in other countries, if you dont like it, don't consume it. General statement
Excuse me? I hate to break it to you but regardless of where you’re from you’re allowed to give your own opinions on things. When somethings wrong, you speak up or nothing changes. Kpop has been pushing for western audiences for decades, they can’t have the market and still be exclusive to Asian opinion. Also this is MY channel where I speak about MY opinion so to throw your own comment back in your face if you don’t like it, don’t consume it.
Horrible take really, I believe there are things that should not be seen as "their view", especially when they transgresse human dignity and what's morally correct. In Japan, for example, the age of consent is 13, do you really believe a 13 year old child can consent? Do you honestly think that just because for them that's just how it is, then it should be respected? Don't you believe there are situations in which a child's well being should be put before the country's views? Or are you a firm believer that children have rights just because the law say so? Are their rights not universal then? Do they not have the same rights because they're Asians?
Can’t agree more with your points. On a side note, Chinese fans have been criticising illit’s Magentic MV with pedx related theme so they aren’t safe from exploitation either🫠
You know K-pop minor problem is bad when me and my friend who just startee high school feel old.
Literally this
@@Natasha.Louisee Fr, bc I’m in Y7 (as of rn) and there is an idol called Seowon (UNIS) who is literally 12. 12. That’s the age I’m turning this year. Seriously, what has KPOP come to? What happened to debuting well trained adults??
@@Hanni._.Bubblegum. my sister was born in 2011, she's turning 13 this year, and it's so scary to see all these scarily young idols debuting, like they're just growing, they are so unexperienced in life... the parents who let their kids debut at such young ages should be held accountable tbh...
@@Hanni._.Bubblegum.fr everyone in that group is a minor except for their leader that has a 10 year age gap compared with the youngest 😭
This, I'm so young but I feel like I'm not doing enough even though I am!
social awareness is SEVERELY lacking in kpop fans it’s insane, the companies know EXACTLY what they are doing to attract attention to their idols by sexualizing them and using minors to do it, they know EXACTLY how people are going to view Eunchae doing the Smart choreography
your makeup also looks stunning as always
People try so hard to defend open sexualisation of minors by calling the people calling it out weird for even thinking like that as if it’s not being shoved in our face. There’s nothing to the imagination it’s just blatant
Thank you my love 💕💐
Finally someone who also thinks Hybe is the fast fashion brand of K-pop 🥹
Like taemin debuted at 14!!!!! And the amount of ppl that were sexualizing him is INSANE. 😭 Shinee had 3/5 minors too?! The oldest were both 18
i was stressed enough worrying about test scores at their ages, i can't imagined being worried about being harassed by netizens. and (probably) being in debt for basically no training which i'll also get bullied for at the same time? my mental health would be a train wreck
I can’t even imagine how much stress they’re under
it reminds me of UNIS debuting Seowon. she is really talented but she is literally 13 and barely turned 13 four months ago...
Meanwhile the oldest is 21 lmao, what the actual fuck
Damn. Not even a hs freshman yet and already on display for the world to see. But considering BoA was the same age when she debuted in 2000 it's not surprising
i remember when cookie came out and i listened to it one time read the lyrics and refused to listen to it. and when i told people that i feel uncomfy listening to them people tell me that i'm weird for it and a hater.
Same
Yesss
I dropped new jeans because of that song
Another mention is Ni-Ki from Enhypen, he was a minor when he debuted and is the most s3xualied member and I can’t begin to imagine what he has been through
i dunno where i saw this but someone said that companies probably debut minors because then they have more control and are able to mould them in a way they want. like if you have a fully grown adult debut, they’re obviously capable of speaking for themselves and are more likely to speak out agains the company. on the other hand a minor wouldn’t even dare because first, age difference and secondly they also lack life experience and are also more likely to be dismissed by the adults who are managing them. this is so incomprehensible to me like this literally shows how messed up the kpop industry is and how manipulative the companies are
Basically gromming
@@greenthinggg exactly and it’s actually disgusting to see
The only problem with that generalization is that, in actuality, in probably around 90% of the cases involving top idols in the big entertainment companies, the companies have to deal with the parents of the minors. Many of the idols come from relatively wealthy family backgrounds and their parents aren't dummies. (Just as an example, Blackpink Jennie's mom is apparently a major shareholder and director of Korea's largest media contents company and appears to be a branch of one of Korea's big "chaebol" dynasties. As the problems with the group Fifty-Fifty and New Jeans have revealed, when serious concerns arise, it's the parents of the group members who get involved. Contracts can't actually be enforced against minors, so if any of these companies tried to cut out the parents or guardians and sign a contract directly with a minor, the minor could just walk away any time.
It dawned on me yesterday, that its so bad because, the most recent Kpop show I-land two literally has all minors and everyone is younger then me (I'm 20). Then a girl (who's 19) states in the show "I'm a little old". Like how does that make any sense WTFFF
How old was Michael Jackson when he debuted as an idol? Donny Osmond? BoA Kwon? Minzy (of 2NE1)? Miley Cyrus? Why do some people think that this is some new weird thing coming out of Kpop? Pop music has ALWAYS been mainly focused on teen-agers, both as fans and as idols. The very successful idols can continue having careers in their twenties and thirties, but they can rarely start that late. George Harrison was 17 when the Beatles formed as a group in 1960. Anyone who is against "minors" being involved in pop music...has to basically be against pop music.
It made me think of Jiwoo from RUNext bc I think it was said the same for her(?) since she was the older contestant than the other girls and I think she says something like “It’s my last chance to debut as I’m getting old now to debut” along those lines and I’m like “??? Girl you’re 22!” (At the time)
@TEAM__POSEID0N it's not necessarily the age it's how it's dealt with. Mj and the beatles had age appropriate music and concepts during that time. They weren't doing suggestive moves in skimpy outfits.
@@watashi5700 I guess it depends on what you mean by "suggestive moves". But, yeah, skimpy outfits were more generally frowned upon back then. The point though is that it's not bad per se for young people to be performers if that's what they want to do. Not all groups are presented the same way. If people want to criticize Lolita concepts and things like that, fine. But too often what we're seeing is weird people asserting that there has to be an absolute ban on minors being in show business, without making any distinction, as though non-famous minors in regular schools are automatically safer and better protected and all labels and groups present minors in the exact same ways.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N You’re comparing apples to oranges. No one has a problem with minors being idols. The PROBLEM comes when they’re over sexualized, forced into unhealthy dietary habits, incredibly overworked, etc etc. And where are these problems more common than anywhere else? The Kpop industry. Also, it is a weird new thing coming out of Kpop because they ACTIVELY LOOK FOR MINORS… like dude, you’re being obtuse for no reason.
22:42 also, take a look at Japanese music/media industry, having teens be photographed in bikinis, perform in front of crowds filled with men over the age of 40 and generally debuting kids, not even teens but literally 11 year olds is actually really common there (not to even start when it comes to their weird depiction of teens in anime)- Asia generally has a weird obsession with a youthful image and debuting minors makes it obviously a lot easier for them to sell their groups to the public. Might be a far reach, but at the end of the day it’s most often than not old men sitting behind these companies and their decisions, now considering that it’s common to have full grown men that are pushing 50 still crushing on 20 year olds, it‘s not hard to put 2 and 2 together here and see the obvious answer of why minors are sexualised. It’s disgusting but the sad reality of it.
The fact that le sserafim were compared to and accused of "copying" tyla, an artist literally known for her sexy dance moves, should tell you enough about the wrongness of this
Meh, it might be because of the sound of the music. Sound similar to Tyla’s songs, or at least there was some influence there
I will say I had no idea AOA had minors when they debuted. I never thought about any of this until New jeans debuted with more minors in it. I definitely think it’s bc back in the day we were unaware bc we were used to pop stars getting huge at 16 and it was super normalized. I have been into kpop since 2011. I didn’t start getting concerned until the KPOP community raised concerns from New Jeans and the scandal with past kid shows on Nickelodeon-came to light.
Yeah I'm surprised that no one really made a fuss at the time when Dowha (Chanmi) wasn't even 18 during miniskirt promos...
"HYBE is the fast fashion of K-Pop" made me chuckle
18 is also not the magical number where it suddenly becomes great to do these concepts, like 18 is still really fucking young. Think of Nine Muses who spoke about feeling exploited for their concept even though they were all over 18 at debut.
they felt exploited?? where can I read about this
@@stargirIll There's a documentary about them called 9 Muses of Star Empire that shows their hardships. Highly recommend
Just a note on AOA, Chanmi was a minor in Korea for Miniskirt-Short hair-Like a cat promos and had a joined stage with Red velvet's Joy and Apink's Hayoung when they turned adults in 2015, covering adult ceremony. It's so fucked up.
Also the people who say it's a new problem make me want to scream, like Hyuna and Krystal were so sexualised when they were 14-15????
Don't like this trend of debuting minors, and I just don't follow the groups that have them. As an older adult I would feel creepy stanning children and supporting the exploitation of minors.
sadly its not even a trend its the norm and has been. growing up w kpop really skewed my opinion on what was too young as a kid
It's not a new trend at all. You can go back to the 1990s in Kpop and find the same thing. What's silly is all of these newbie Kpop fans who think they've discovered some new scandalous development in Kpop. Minzy of 2NE1 debuted in 2009 at age 15 at around the same age as Rora and Chiquita of Babymonster, and started her trainee status when she was in elementary school. G Dragon did also. How old do people think Michael Jackson was when he debuted? Pop music has always been targeted at very young people both as the main demographic for fans and as the age of the idols. When did Miley Cyrus start her idol career? Stop pretending like this is some new horrible thing that's coming out of Kpop. In reality, Kpop and pop music are not careers that can easily be started by someone in their twenties and thirties. Look at BoA, now in her thirties, she's already considered old and at or near the end of her career as an idol. She was recruited in 1998 by SM Entertainment when she was 12 years old and debuted at age 14. It's a career path for very young people. People who think otherwise simply have not been paying attention.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N I didn't say it is "new", but you keep mentioning that word. The way Disney Channel kids and western artists are viewed and consumed is not the same as kpop groups hence the concern.
The thing that disturbs me with how people minimise the dance move is that they blame you for being, their words : a creep
Bc you complained about how a certain move is sexual because in their words, thinking it as such is you being a weirdo
Everything you said in this video is soo true. Nowadays (especially because of tiktok) sexualised behaviour of minors is normalised and the minors themselves don’t see it as wrong ( from personal witness of minors doing this as a minor myself ). This video well written. ~ have a good rest of your day 🙃
The nwjns situation with cookie actually pissed me off cus how tf r u going to say that i am the problem when mhj has a history of giving sensual concepts and songs to groups with minors in it like lets stop lying oml. and maybe its just me, but I find it hypocritical that the same ppl who complain abt minors debuing r the same ppl who put moneyh in the companies pockets by buying albums and streaming from a group with minors in it like girl u do NOT give a fuck abt the minors lol
I'm a newer listener of kpop, and I agree wholeheartedly while avoiding New Jeans music just for this on principle. This may sound odd to a lay person, but because I'd really wish that people as young as the NJ members are treated as well as possible, I feel like I'd paradoxically not want to encourage demand for their music. And even if mhj's past was hypothetically not shady at all and NJ are actually being treated well, the issue is that their success would continue to encourage others to a trend for debuting younger idols as well, who aren't guaranteed to be given safeguards from abusive environments either :/
100% agree! And then they wait for the minor to turn 18 bcs then it's okay and they're suddenly "mature"? I've seen people wait for Niki and Wonyoung to turn 18... It's weird. Now they're waiting for Eunchae and Haerin. I hate it... The Garam hate broke my heart too I remember how quickly everyone switched up and the people saying "when are you gonna leave that pedestrian alone" were 100% the people harassing her.
Also the hate train is so unfair and it wasn't a clever move of hybe at all. However I have to speak on the comparison to Ateez, since when Ateez debuted and even when they were a younger group than le sserafim is now, they still had the singing skills. Of course they improved them but I'd say they were better at debut than le sserafim is now.
Also you're literally so gorgeous??!?
I'm a rare (?) 40+ year old kpop lover. Which makes me old enough to be these kids mom. I knew going in there were minors debuting, and about many of the issues that can arise. But some of these companies just aren't protecting these kids enough. Especially in the modern era with netizens always piling on these kids! I'm not surprised Sakura has had to take a hiatus. Hybe especially should do better. They are acting as the "parent" so to speak, and a bug part of a parents job is protecting the kids!
There's nothing necessarily wrong with minors debuting in Kpop or pop. It's the kind of career path that is more difficult to start in your twenties and thirties. The ones who start younger often have an easier time adapting to the negative aspects. I get people complaining about particular types of content that can be problematic. But people who act like teen-agers being involved in pop music is some disturbing new trend simply haven't been paying attention. The whole industry is basically focused on teen-agers as fans and as idols. One of Korea's most famous idols, BoA Kwon, was recruited to SM Entertainment in 1998 when she was 12, debuted when she was 14 and now, in her thirties, is considered old and semi-retired. That's the nature of pop music. Michael Jackson, the Jacksons, the Osmonds, Miley Cyrus, etc., etc., all the teen "heart throbs" of the 1970s, 80s and 90s. G-Dragon (of Big Bang) was in elementary school when he started his career in Kpop. So was Minzy of 2NE1. Ironically, the person in 2NE1 who had the hardest time dealing with negativity from so-called "netizens" was the member who debuted when she was 25. The younger members were able to deal much better. It depends on the person really.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N there is a lot wrong with debuting minors....did you not watch the video
The problem I have with people saying "minors have always been in kpop" is that it feels like the person is telling you to stop complaining, but we should not, because is just weird to me that 27 feels old in kpop, like why? 27 is not old for artist in the west.
Can we allow older people to have a career too, It will probably be so beneficial, they would have more training time.
There's not problem with people complaining about it....if they're basically just complaining about the whole pop music industry as a whole. People saying that "minors have always been in kpop" are mainly responding to the silly way that many people are now acting like it's some new thing and new trend that they want to stop. Minors in pop music was a thing long before Michael Jackson debuted at age 4 o 5 or whatever. George Harrison was 17 when the Beatles formed as a group. "27 is not old for artist in the west." True, but you're usually talking about someone who started long before age 27. Even people who only became famous in their twenties, almost always were active in club, busking and other musical venues when they were teen-agers. Ironically, minor idols at one of the bigger, reputable Kpop management companies are statistically probably safer and better protected than similarly aged kids going to school. The only difference is that because ordinary kids facing horrible problems in ordinary schools are not famous...you don't think about them and don't care.
I think once I became an older teen around 16/17 (I’m 24 now) I became uncomfortable when idols who were like 12 and 14 were debuting. I was an ARMY from debut and because I was younger than them it seemed normal for 16 yr old to be an idol. There’s not enough protections in place to protect these kids. I was well aware of the scandals by 16 such as slave contracts and minors being trapped in predatory contracts being forced to push their bodies to their extreme etc that I drifted away from K-POP. Its child exploitation. I’ve started listening to K-POP again recently but I found myself researching the members ages before I start listening to them for real. Its weird to stan minors.
Making the older young adult members literally raise their minor members was insane. Like Seventeen having to take care of a literal child member while in the dorms is insane. I’m really into Kiss of Life. All the members are adults and have been training for years and it shows in their vocal ability, stage presence, dance ability etc that they’ve been training for years.
I think we should acknowledge that during debut, haneul was a minor in Korea and all the other members were barley adults. Like said in the video, you don’t just suddenly have the maturity to make these decisions or have the sense to not be manipulated. Also it kind of feels weird calling people who should be in college a “ mature adult” because of the concept or the fact that they are 18 and over.
goddd i haaaate when people go “noo its not sexual YOU’RE the one sexualizing” like man😭😭 What..and also for the eunchae argument like Yeah sure..inherently some moves in it aren’t sexual but would a big ass greedy company care about the actual background of these dances?? no ofc not they want to market these girls to weirdos..man and ppl will go “minor safety!!” and stan groups like tripleS and idk young posse
I feel like company’s make it worse they are cutting out ages that are still young like I see some company’s cutting auditions of at 2006 ……..
Bruh the story of Hyuna is so sad fr
Straight up subscribed. Can´t agree more that minors in kpop doing sexual lyrics, dance moves is an issue. People generally shouldn´t debut as minors alltogether.
ur channel is such a safe space, thank u for that
Awww it’s no problem I love making the videos 💐 I’m glad you like them
i was just thinking the same thing ^o^
i think people don't have a problem with minors in kpop, they have a problem with not being able to sexualize idols in a socially acceptable way. debuting minors in newer generations means having less sexual concepts (thankfully, because, as you mentioned, the sexy concepts older groups with minors had to do were just disgusting). i can't help but notice that people who constantly complain about the lack of sexy concepts in newer gens blame the minors in groups for it. kiss of live is constantly praised for their sexy concept and that "this is what we can get when we don't debut minors", when one of their members turned 18 3 months before she debuted, she's barely legal. these people literally just want to be able to sexualise the idols without being called p*dos and i will die on this hill. if they actually cared about minors, the concepts they can or can't do wouldn't even cross your mind as a reason to keep minors away from the industry.
No. I don’t think this take is even 80% of people talking about this topic. I get what you’re saying but We (I mean me) don’t like minors debuting because companies don’t consider their age when they think of concepts. Even twice, who had a VERY cute concept had a 16 year old Tzuyu dance erotically in an elevator for an advertisements. It’s not the concept, it’s the companies inability to manage minor members. The concept doesn’t matter, sexualisation affects all idols regardless. In an ideal world idols wouldn’t have sexy concepts unless they really want it (of which we will never know) I also do not stan kiss of life for this very reason. They seem to enjoy what they do but we don’t know that for sure. I prefer concepts like bad villain. They’re sassy but not erotic? If that makes any sense. Also I wanna keep minors away from the industry because kpop as a whole is just not minor friendly. The whole business model is framing the idol to be the perfect boyfriend/boyfriend for the fans so regardless if sexual concepts exist or not it’s still not appropriate to frame a minor as the perfect girlfriend for fan service
@@Natasha.Louisee i completely agree with you. maybe i worded my comment wrong, but i wasn't talking about you specifically or defending minors in the industry. it was just a thought i've had for a while and finally found a place to express it. like you, i think the biggest problem with minors in the industry is how younger people simply shouldn't be exposed to the exploitation and pressure present in kpop, plus they have to give up their whole childhood to debut at such a young age. it's a recipe for trauma and horrible mental health issues, some of which have been talked about by idols who debuted at those ages and reget it. as you said, concept has nothing to do with it, all we have to do is look at how sexualized school girl uniforms are in the industry. or how all of gfriend were treated when they had the most innocent sound possible. people are gonna be sexualizing idols regardless, so we can at least protect minors from having to experience it during their formative years. and i agree with your take on kol. some of their music is good, but i don't think i can ever stan them because the concept is just a lot for such young girls, even if they aren't minors. sure, they may look like they're enjoying it, but i also did things when i was 20 that i enjoyed, and at 23 i already realise how bad they were for me and how much risk they put me in at the time. we also can't be sure they truly want to be perceived this way, so sexy concepts from groups that aren't fully grown adults just rub me the wrong way. i don't know bad villain, but that type of concept sounds interesting, so i think i'll check it out. i do think that it's far more that around 20% of people who just want sexier concepts, at least from my experience, but maybe i just got really unlucky with the fan spaces i've been exposed to. i'd much rather if it really was just a really vocal minority.
i think SM started the debuting minor trend ( TVXQ, all of f(x) except for Victoria , Taemin Shinee at 14), esp with how big they eventually became even as a solo artists. but it became normalized and even became a trend with NCT Dream, ( no hate to the artists just facts) because they debuted with cute concepts under a big company, no one really bat an eye or find it problematic. and how in the long run nct Dream became so largely successful really egged other companies on to debut younger and younger. Now with wonyoung (debuted in izone when 14yr old) as the IT girl of Korea, everyone wants to have their trainees groomed ( not s3xu4l way ) into the next It Girl as soon as possible.
Tvxq was all minors same with I think the majority of hot and shinhwa
@@brennathecatlover4360 OH YEAH ! now you reminded me.... im a late kpopper of 3rd gen so i wasnt aware of what earlier groups' debut age
Same with Seohyun, Yoona Sooyoung, Hyoyeon, and Yuri of girls generation (Tiffany too since she technically turned 18 a few DAYS before debuting)
@@ev4d0r3 lol yeaaa
0:57 I’m in my 30s so I’m the same age as 2nd gen. For a while I did feel like it was a new thing, because I had forgotten that I had been about the same age as the 2nd gen girls. Meaning, when I was 14, of course I didn’t see a problem with 15 year old idols. Back then I didn’t even blink knowing SNSD joined their company at 12. So many years passed and because I was looking at the new idols with fresh eyes in my late 20s and early 30s, I didn’t think to look back until I saw a comment on a video point it out. Then I heard 2nd gen idols talk about their experiences being exploited and harassed when they were so young. Compilations of concepts that were not age appropriate. Hyuna releasing a music video and song with lyrics that just… were so uncomfortable yet enlightening. So I don’t know about the other people, but those my age have been speaking out against the exploitation of minors and debuts of 13 and 14 year olds because of all the evidence from generations past. We’ve seen 4 generations of debuts. And every time we speak it feels like the young kids who are in their teens that defend it, because just like us back then they don’t grasp why it’s problematic. However, I will never understand why they don’t listen-back in the 2000s and 2010s, nobody was telling us it was problematic but I think I would’ve tried to understand instead of getting defensive if they had.
Oh dang, you hate HyunA? 😅 I’m curious why. Yes, I’d like to see a video on it. I know she’s unorthodox but hate is a strong word so yeah, I’d love to hear more.
Whenever you post I say YIPPEE! Regardless of how touchy the subject is 😭😭 but I say YIPPEE because, this channel is a KPOP safe space
Awww bless you 😭😭 thank you for watching im really glad you enjoy it my love 🩷
@@Natasha.Louisee Yes and it’s a reference to the “Whenever my friend wears a new hat, I say YIPPEE!” Meme on YT shorts / Tiktok
One thing that I find infurating about the minor in kpop convo is that people will ignore the problem when the idol is underage and then retroactively change their mind and act like they always knew it was a problem. Like look at Niki from enhypen who was always showing up in videos with the (18+) in the title while he was not 18 himself, and whenever people brought this up people told them that it wasn't bad because it was probably other teenager doing it. But now he's gone viral dancing to "not like us" as an 18 year old and everyone is like "yes call out the pedo's" ummm hello? that was what everyone has been saying since he was 14 but we're only gonna acknowledge it when he becomes an adult. It's just proof that they know it's wrong but still want to stream, but having to acknowledge that they are encouraging this behaviour upsets them so they instead just pretend it doesn't exist until it has become an non-issue.
I was a fan during the time when Jungkook was a minor, and I don't know if this was done by the fans or by the company (probably both), but he was kind of marketed toward older female fans. I remember a big emphasis on infantilizing him and older fans getting excited about being called 'noona' by him. Very much selling the relationship dynamic of older women and younger boys. It was very overwhelming.
the fact that when you call out outfits, dance moves, lyrics or concepts that dont suit minors, YOU get called weird and a creep... like im sorry i dont think 16 yos should wear mini skirts in front of strangers
Such a rarity to see kpop-opinion RUclipsrs actually using their critical thinking skills, thank u truly
Honestly, the choreo of Smart isn't its only problem... why did the dancers/group have to be styled in school clothing? It's just weird vibes.
Wake up our queen posted
Cute~ 🫡💕
@@Natasha.Louisee btw can u talk abt le sserafims coachella stage
@@CalixteOpokudut ruclips.net/video/pq4Z9A6HUcA/видео.htmlsi=6UVyybLnSdKQTxYz I kinda went into it in this video~ this was my response to that situation 💐💐
I'm a 16yo and there are so many idols who are younger than me. Seowon from UNIS is 12. My brother is almost as old as that, he's 11. My f*cking baby brother, who was born in 2013 and is a literal child, is almost as old as her!!! How messed up as a parent do you have to be, to allow your CHILD to be an idol and to be in this industry??
as someone who used to be an army when jungkook was underaged, i remember when people made call out posts for people writing smut about him would usually end up harassed and supported in equal parts. whats surprising a lot of the people defending writing smut about a kid were mostly adults :( this happened again when nct dream were mostly underaged too. i still cant believe nsfd (not safe for dream) was actually a thing. every other day there were long posts spreading the usernames of these people to get the suspended and far too many were adults too.
I am glad you covered this. Hopefully, more people discussing this would stop the industry from exploiting minors. One incident that comes to my mind was when: 16yrs old Tzuyu was made to apologize for representing her own flag, she was caught in a political tension between nations. She looked very scared at that time. They did not care that she was just a child. JYPE did not protect her, they only wanted to save their reputation, and forced Tzuyu in front of the camera, even though it wasn't her fault. This is one of the many reason why they should not debut so early, the industry is quite ruthless, a child should not have to deal with the burden of being the face of the company.
The worst thing for the Lesserafm one is that she is almost near the CENTER whenever THOSE moves are done and thats so wtf.
Like they could just leave her out of it man. Like choreo it to be in good taste and do it well!
as a massive newjeans fan, cookie IS VERY WEIRD, especially bc only two members were adults at the time
how are you still a fan...
@stargirIll cause I've got bigger problems to deal in life. One song with questionable lyrics that I can't understand since I don't speak Korean really won't make me stop liking a group that has many other amazing songs and likable members. If you don't wanna be a fan, then don't. Don't tell me how to live my life
hiii i really love the topics you use in your channel wish you all the best in the future 💖
Thank you~ I’m happy you like them. I’ll try my best 💕💕💕
I agree with almost everything in this video. But a lot of people have said that The magnetic mv is weird. There're screenshots of scenes from the mv and the fact that the mv's director has a history of uploading weird stuff 👀 i didn't see it until the posts came out but...
I did see a video about it but I think it’s a little bit of a reach. Idk how to feel about it and I’d prefer it if none of the ILLIT members were minors but I think a lot of people are searching for it to sensationalise the group for views which tbh is another reason minors shouldn’t be in the industry
@@Natasha.Louisee Fr I watched the mv and I honestly didn't notice it until I saw the reviews. People were ACTUALLY zooming in on puzzle peices. I honestly love illit and I think wonhee and Iroha have been treated considerably good in terms of outfits and safety (apart from Iroha's lgs skirt controversy) but it doesn't make it right. Even during R U next someone wrote a fan fiction s*xualizing wonhee on wattpad BEFORE she even debuted. It's heartbreaking 😕😕
If the companies actually put some effort and care into managing their minor members properly it wouldn’t be such an issue but they blatantly just do not care at all for their well being only if they’re bringing in money. People zooming in and fabricating some kinda exploitation scandal is so gross to me, it’s almost like they WANT them to be being exploited so they can enjoy the drama
@@Natasha.Louisee it's all rage bait and using minors for clout is honestly disgusting🤢 I honestly don't know how to fell about people my age debuting (I'm 15) and being treated like this when they just want to live their dream 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Magnetic isn’t even inappropriate tho
Thank you so much for covering this important topic 🙏🏻
8:20 Nowadays I think the issues that happened with JK were happening with Niki (before he became 18)
All great points. If it was my choice, debuts wouldn’t be allowed until you graduate high school. And of course, certain concepts wouldn’t be allowed until 20. I know 19 (global age) is now the age of majority in Korea, but I’m not feeling it AT ALL. You’re still a teenager.
People always say “oh you’re gross if you see it like that” but other than creeps, the other demographic most prone to spotting this type of stuff are victims of SA and predatory behavior. Of course others can spot it as well, but I hate the rhetoric that seeing it as such means you’re the creep. That retort is infuriating because we’re just survivors trying to prevent the cycle from being repeated.
i feel like another issue that isn't talked about a lot (or at all) is how people treat 18-year-olds like full-grown adults. the double standards between a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old in the industry is crazy, yet i never see anyone bringing it up. the idols that are the most affected by this are enhypen's ni-ki and kiss of life's haneul, both born in 2005. for example, when eunchae, turning 18 this year, does the choreography for smart, everyone's ready to throw hands (it's justified though), but when 18-year-old haneul does the choreo in nobody knows, everyone's praising the group and calling them 'grown women doing grown women choreography'. (rest in comments)
Yesss this annoys me so much! It's not like your brain suddenly fully matures when you turn 18. They're still extremely young and definitely not grown either.
Ikr!! The second you turn 18 all your protections are ripped away (not that they have a lot of protection anyway) and it’s not like you wake up on your birthday and are a whole new person. This isn’t even just in kpop, look what happened with Emma Watson.
I love your commentary!
K-Netizens are folks who don't give a shit about whatever your going through all they want is you "stay single " "you're to slim" or "you're to fat" is insane.....and minors and also adult kpop idols who dropped out of school still get ridiculed for it....imagine missing freaking 10yrs of your childhood doesn't make any sense....they can't put a sixteen years old on diet means they don't care about their health.....they shouldn't blame illit for their vocals they should blame the company for not preparein them properly before they debut
Let’s face it we live in a porn saturated society where unwell people will fantasize about these young girls.
Having underage girls dress in skimpy outfits and performing sexually suggestive dances is extremely disturbing and feeds into this porn culture. Baby monster has members who are under the age of 15 I believe. They need to stop debuting literal children. Not to mention the sexualization, the criticism, the pressure, the insane fans. It’s too much for a child that young. What are their parents thinking?
I LOVE HEEEER!!! Taemin from Shinee was 15 when debuting and the Jungkook thing was out of order I was into kpop back then and as a minor myself at that time it was uncomfi to say the least. It all feels new cause now there's also so many youtubers that mak videos about kpop etc
Back then you difnt have a whole group of minors debuting. It was usually just the maknae or the last 2. Now its like nearly the whole group
What’s the difference. One minor is one too many
Back when? NCT Dream literally debuted with all the members being minors in 2016
23:12 I kinda get what you meant but it’s not always the case. Like Seungri from Big band debuting at 15 and look at where he ended up with the burning sun scandal… with debuting minors there is a lot of manipulation that goes into it as well but also rebellion
Obviously people just by looking at it don't see the problem so it's deeper than just "this is bad, you're dumb for not knowing" do you realize you're talking to a lot of kids here? The problem begins before the debut, and before they even begin training
Aoa debuted in 2012 but they didn't have a sexy concept till later. Miniskirt was released in 2014 and chanmi was 18 when it was released. The first two years in AOA's career were the generic 2012 like concepts but also them as a band! There are questionable dance moves but nothing on the same level as mini skirt. EXID too, Jeonghwa was 20 when they released up and down which was a significant concept change since their earlier stuff. If you want to argue that every night was mature too, she was 18 in that video. I think a better example would have been 9muses.
i find it so so so sad how hybe went from having/collecting very very well respected groups like bts, svt, gfriend (im so salty about what happened to gfriend btw), txt and then doing whatever the fuck they are doing right now. like, I remeber a time when big hit ent (ent was the big one, the one that became hybe,) was such a beloved name for creating bts and txt, man, i miss those times
21:54 I actually LOVE this video and I agree. Whenever minors in the entertainment industry are discussed, people just say “No child idols or child actors” and call it a day instead of really digging into the reason it’s harmful in the first place. Kids and teens should be able to live out their dreams and be in the industry if that’s what they want. But they have to be properly taken care of and protected. Don’t boot young people out, boot out the toxicity. Exploitation, harmful work conditions, and predators shouldn’t be allowed or tolerated. The kids should have things like a good working environment and healthy workload, plenty of rest, safeguarding from toxicity online, age appropriate music, clothing, and content, physical and mental health care, etc. The entertainment industry as a whole needs to change, tbh, because adults suffer in it too. I wish more people put more thought into the issue instead of just waving it off or thinking “That’s just the way things are 🤷♀️”. Not to mention the major double standards and hypocrisy of kpop stans on the internet. Almost every single fith gen and 4th gen groups have minors in them under companies who have HORRIBLE reputations, but you’ll have people trying to shame one and not the others for fan wars and whatnot 💀
As a 16 year old who ults lesserafim I knew that smart had sexual moves just by listening to the song. I LOVE the song. Not the dance. Even I feel uncomfortable seeing the girls do the moves and I feel bad for eunchae as she's nearly 18 but she's NOT 18. So it's not an excuse that she'll be 18 soon. The hate train is absolutely disgusting. Coachella was OK. There were good moments but also bad moments, but that's ok. Whenever I criticse my ULT group I basically get shunned out of the fandom. Like you can critise them but still LOVE them. The whole newjeans and ill it thing is disgusting. I LOVE AND FEEL BAD FOR BOTH GROUPS but omg did people not realising how sexual cookie was ? And also, ill it have been receiving UNWANTED, UNJUSTIFIED, amounts of hate since debut and HYBE haven't done anything like legal action or filtering comments ( this goes w the hate train w fimmies too ). Moral of the story, *PROTECT MINORS*
I love your videos sm, could you talk about hyuna? 💗 (I’m kinda new to KPOP and don’t know much)
Yes! That’s actually a video I’ve already made it’s being posted on Tuesday 💐💕
I think one of the only companies who's handling having a minor in their group well is STARSHIP & even they aren't doing that well (they could've handled Leeseo's hate train WAY better)
leeseo gets sexualized a lot though
They allow minors to debut more theses days bc they are easier to control and market off so more money for them
I think the problem with the minor thing in 5th gen is that most of the group members are minors when before hand you had one or two or even three or half and half, not almost all of them. But seriously, minors should seriously stop debuting so early. This is really so sad, imo
i think a lot of people also might not see the problem because they're used to this. and we shouldn't be!! it fucks me up that we are exposed to terrible things so young that we end up with a skewed view of everything
for the coachella one, they've been directly compared to aespa, who's more apple to apple of a comparison career wise when they performed there, and still didn't hold a candle. in conclusion? it's a real skill issue on top of a mismanagement, let's not disqualify that.
Choreographers should also know the kind of choreography they give to their traniees is the reason why they get alot of hate
i totally agreed with these points. i don't have problems with minors debuting in a kpop group unless they're under 15 or if they're doing sexual concepts. Likee New Jeans is ok to me since they're a cutesy concept (except cookie) but Le Serrafim isn't since Eunchae is too young for many of their dances. I wished the standard min age to debut was 15/16. Same with Unis, yeah they're kinda cutesy but their maknae is wayyyy too young.
nobody under 18 should be debuting....what makes you think 15/16 is a good age to debut??
Preach!!!!!! We have to protect minors!!!
But is it still okay to stan NewJeans? Like, I don’t listen to Cookie because of the lyrics, but I really like their other music.
you didn't understand the magntic mv ?
there's nothing wrong with it
I never agreed with someone as much as I do with you. 💯💯💯❤❤
My question: If any idol legally turns into an adult by age, does it make it alright to sexualise them?
No
Boy story.
As someone who has been in a school, I find this interesting because minors sexualize themselves all the time. There have been instances where students, particularly schoolgirls, would create their own choreographies for events such as school anniversaries, and guess what? They were pretty sexual, at least through the same lens we've been using for K-pop. They themselves wanted to be seen sexually. Of course, there is definitely a difference between dancing in front of your school and dancing in front of pretty much the whole world, but still, what is the reason for them to feel the need to dance in a sexual way in front of others?
Just to be clear, I am NOT defending the sexualization of minors AT ALL.
If a 17 yr old can get married with parents consent in South Korea then nobody should have any issues with an Idol at 17 who's obviously also had the parents consent, Infact if the Idol isn't your child then you should mind your business and stop trying to dictate what other parents do. Unless you don't have a problem with someone telling you what your kids should or shouldn't be doing.
Oh well! Let’s just turn our backs to blatant minor mistreatment because we aren’t their parents. That’s a brilliant way to further our society 😁
i was with you throughout the whole video until towards the end you decided to start shitting on lesserafim. you people need to stop exaggerating about how “bad” the coachella performance was. was it the best stage in the world? not at all. i agree that the girls need to work more on their vocals but they have been. but it doesn’t help that hybe keeps giving them songs that are not in their range and they also heavily auto tune their music so it’s almost impossible to sound like the studio version. but the stage overall was not as terrible as yall are making it out to be. did you watch the whole thing or just the clips people love to cut together to make it look worse than it was? the vocals ok we get it it wasn’t the greatest but they had everything else. they had stage presence, they were doing full choreography while trying to sing fully live (something very rare in kpop nowadays), and they connected with the audience who all said they had a great time watching them in person. easy to judge when you’re sitting your ass watching on the couch waiting for something to complain about. but like i said you’re right about everything else.
Uh? I’ve defended the fuck out of Lesseraphim so much. The performance was bad vocally. People are allowed to have their opinions on that. I hate the amount of crap Lesseraphim gets and I actively defend them 90% of the time and I feel like most of the hate they get is completely baseless. I actually made a WHOLE VIDEO saying what you just said to me. I dedicated a whole video to defending Lesseraphims performance because I think people expect too much
In my video I stated that I hate that Lesseraphim is getting compared to other idols who attended Coachella when those idols have many many more years of experience than Lesseraphim. And that it’s very hard to dance and sing at the same time and the reason idols don’t do it anymore is because of the hypercritical nature of people online. I also blamed HYBE in the video, that they shouldn’t have sent them to Coachella so early in their careers and gave them more adequate training. I also pointed out that the hate has been misdirected to the girls when it should be directed at their company
Her issue is K-pop. All her videos are about her views on K-pop. So I would say people like her are the biggest problem in K-pop brand new fans, learning K-pop from someone who says likes K-pop but makes videos of all the things she thinks is bad about it. 😈
As older as you get in Kpop, the more critical you get about how this whole industry works, that's just natural, not to mention the fact that as older you get, the more critical thinking skills you develop, which makes you criticize things you like regardless of your love
BLACKPINK also had two years of experience when they went to Coachella along with those tours yes but so did lesserafim. There's really no excuse for how bad Le sserafim did especially comparing them to BLACKPINK when their situations were very similar were. BLACKPINK were rookies when they went to Coachella and so were lessafum they were both two years into the careers and had tour experience under their belts. lesserafim just didn't do good. They had the same advantages.
Asians do not see it that way, we are not asians, stop imposing your views in other countries, if you dont like it, don't consume it.
General statement
Excuse me? I hate to break it to you but regardless of where you’re from you’re allowed to give your own opinions on things. When somethings wrong, you speak up or nothing changes. Kpop has been pushing for western audiences for decades, they can’t have the market and still be exclusive to Asian opinion. Also this is MY channel where I speak about MY opinion so to throw your own comment back in your face if you don’t like it, don’t consume it.
@NatashaLkim I did not say you are wrong , I said your opinion is based in a western mindset... as simple as that.
And... I used the YOU as plural.
ummm.. i’m asian but that stereotyping ain’t cute. it isn’t even abt culture, it’s js safeguarding sexualizing minors from fugly creeps like wtf😭
Horrible take really, I believe there are things that should not be seen as "their view", especially when they transgresse human dignity and what's morally correct.
In Japan, for example, the age of consent is 13, do you really believe a 13 year old child can consent? Do you honestly think that just because for them that's just how it is, then it should be respected? Don't you believe there are situations in which a child's well being should be put before the country's views? Or are you a firm believer that children have rights just because the law say so? Are their rights not universal then? Do they not have the same rights because they're Asians?
Can’t agree more with your points. On a side note, Chinese fans have been criticising illit’s Magentic MV with pedx related theme so they aren’t safe from exploitation either🫠
chinese netizens where just making stuff up lmao
there was nothing wrong with Magnetic's mv