The Ongoing OrangeStorm Giga Disappointment - PrintFixFriday 136
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- It’s all about the scales of the fails in this week’s #PrintFix Friday: @3DPrintingNerd and @UncleJessy attest to the ongoing failure of @ElegooOfficial's OrangeStorm Gigas, @construct3d has a monumental blob of doom, and @CanuckCreator points out the flaws in @Sovol's SV08! Check it out!
Were you looking forward to the OrangeStorm Giga, or the SV08? How about now? Let us know in the comments!
Go check out the creators in this video:
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• My OrangeStorm Giga ST...
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Cards:
SMRRF Day 2 Part 1: • Hacking Ceramics, Tort...
Grant Getting His Head Shaved At SMRRF: ruclips.net/user/livebkCqthVKNDA
PrintFix 132 (First appearance of OrangeStorm Gigas): • Are Elegoo's OrangeSto...
Product Testing Making Awesome Episode w/ Nero3D: ruclips.net/user/livemnQYFyQG9z0
Voron Trident Build Playlist: • VORON BUILD!!!
0:00 Intro
0:45 Massive Blob of Doom: A lesson in the importance of making sure to choose the correct filament.
3:26 OrangeStrom Giga Issues: Joel Telling and Uncle Jessy present their issues with the Elegoo OrangeStorm Giga.
10:46 Ground Down Nozzles: A pair of Nextruder nozzles showcase the dangers of printing abrasives.
13:20 Nero's SV08 Thoughts: Nero posted about the problems with the construction of Sovol's SV08.
16:28 Outro
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The whole Giga printer with 4 build plates just seemed like a frankenstein throw together product. They wanted to keep the cost low and the result was a very large paper weight. When I saw that it had springs the only cemented my suspicions.
ask the diamondback guys "mk4 nextruder nozzles, when?" lol
This would be great. Even better if the answer is very soon for release.
Manual adjustments are essential for large printbeds; you can't do it in software or with fixed mounts, unless you ship very expensive high precision hardware.
The problems people had with the gigastorm were bad firmware settings: a negative layer number for mesh compensation. It's an easy fix.
Large printers are just technically difficult to deal with, in particular if they are fairly inexpensive. They require a lot of knowledge and manual adjustments.
The main point of open source is, that you can fork it, patch things to make it work for your purposes and merge your added value to upstream. In that way your fork is just a temporary thing.
Elagoo better hope Joel‘s printer starts working soon or he’s gonna take a sanding wheel to it
Joel posted a short that his printer is now working. Man I hope they fix this before they ship next week according to the recent update on kickstarter they said the early backers printers should be shipping.
Elegoo FDM large printers are shipped with defects that would not get through a company like Prusa or Bamboo Labs QC ... (except Prusa's MMU debacle, which still makes me angry) ... Like these printers are unusable from out of the box ... they scratch beds, break print heads, print in mid air, make weird grinding noises and waste A LOT OF FILAMENT ... the Elegoo Neptune 4 Max was a big wake up call for me after only using DIY, Creality, Prusa and Bamboo printers ... I've worked through all the Neptune 4 Max issues and have a somewhat working printer ... eventually even getting a 0.8mm nozzle working ... but it was EXTREMELY painful, costly and time consuming.
I guess at the price point sell them they are really for people VERY experienced with 3D printers, because I could see myself giving up on 3D printing if I had purchased the Neptune 4 Max as my first printer.
I am not in a hurry to go back to the brand for any type of printer unless I had a lot of free time to trouble shoot and fix a 3D printer. I hear their SLA's are much better, but the brand has been tarnished for me, and I have real trust issues with reviews of the companies products. It concerns me that some YT channels that appear to have a close affiliation with Elegoo, as in review their free products, seem to typically gloss over, ignore, don't suffer from inadequacies most users seem to find ...
I could tell the OrangeStorm was going to be a shit fight before it even shipped ... and was not surprised by what I read / saw.
Here is Sovol's response to Nero3D at 27:54 in their April 18 launch live stream (2nd part) they basically said that this was only affecting some early units that were shipped to testers and reviewers, and the production units will surely not have this issue, if it happens to anyone they vouched to send a complete flying gantry as a warranty replacement)
Sovol already addressed the short pin issue. They said it was an assembly mistake and that it should not affect many if any production units. They are also shipping cord protectors with printers to avoid the wire chafing issue.
This is what you get when you think just to scale up an existing design at the lowest price possible
WRT customer Klipper mods: people who don’t know what they are doing are generally CONVINCED that they can do it better. That is just a cost of doing business with software.
I bought an sv08 and I'm expecting it to not be great. I got a sv06 plus a while ago and the thing wouldn't even work without a bunch of mods and adjustments. I'm just a suckered trying to chase a large build volume.
“It’s complicated” regarding the Trident may be the understatement of the CENTURY, lol.
My man almost had an aneurysm on stream because of Klipper, lol.
Love the larger build volumes but that multi heating zone thing is gonna wreck my electricity bill
Autsch. The missing shim and short pin SV08 did hit me hard. I mean my V2.4 300 i put a lot of effort into such details. But this is bonkers.
Pre-ordered the Saturn 4U can't wait for it to appear
I like Sovol keeping Klipper very very close to baseline and simple configs etc. so ... i just preordered 6x SV08
Considering also 2x T500
I have a OrangeStorm Giga coming as well
Aint it normal process after firmware loading that you need reset/relevel things before printing?
That was my experience mostly or is it weird?
I bought the Sovol SV08 as early bird for $499.00. I can say if it broken I can fix it rather than send it back... oo, thinking, if us sending it back we can buy a broken one cheap.
9:09 On propriatary Klipper forks:
I've got an anycubic kobra 2 max and not having propper klipper is quite the limit to a printer, that has (for the price) decent features.
The reason ac has a costum version is a) to get people to use their online platform (thangs competitor) probably in hopes to generate extra revenue
and b)
lower end hardware. The board inside is considerably more limeted than what is needed for a propper klipper version (only 128mb ram, slower cpu,...). This saves considerable cost on low price printers but makes shure, that propper klipper wouldn't run.
SV08 -> Those are preproduction units, months before they hit general market -- sent out to partially solve these issues along with publicity. Of course things are not finished yet, when first shipments to customers is months out. Software is easy and simple.
As Ivan Miranda has shown on his large volume printer, it's better to go for a large surface with mesh leveling instead of manually adjusting dozens of points.
Any bed, even one broken into four quadrants, that has more than three points for leveling is a mistake. It was always a mistake, thanks to how Euclidian geometry works, but it's a huge mistake in an age of mesh bed leveling compensation. And I thought trying to level the bed of the Stacker3D S4-XL at my last job was hard, which I think had six adjustment screws, but to have 36 separate points? That can't be accessed without removing the build plates? It's not just lazy designing, it's a giant middle finger to every person who buys that printer.
With regards to firmware revisions, I'm definitely more in the camp of "if it works, don't mess with it." I have never once bothered to update the firmware on my January 2020-vintage Ender 3 because it doesn't need it - thermal runaway protection works, M600 commands are accepted properly, and not being able to take the nozzle above 260˚C despite having an all-metal hot end is only mildly annoying. With a printer as apparently slap-dash as the OrangeStorm Giga, being very careful with installing new firmware seems to be a necessity.
As for the SV08...seeing overall build quality issues isn't exactly a surprise, though as Nero pointed out in one of his videos it's not a good look for a production printer in a reviewer's hands to be so shoddily made. Another three months of spit and polish would have worked wonders for this printer. And the price...their website currently lists the basic SV08 at a bargain-basement $549 price tag. The optional touchscreen ($90), enclosure ($150), or combo of those two items ($220) certainly add some cost, but they could have added another $150 to the price and still be on a very solid competitive footing with Prusa, Qidi, Bambu Lab, and Voron 2.4 kits. That old "85% of the experience at a fraction of the cost" rule would make this a highly attractive printer, though with the issues people keep turning up it seems like early model SV08s will only have 50% of the experience of a true Voron 2.4.
Although I do want my next FDM printer to be enclosed with a 300˚C hot end and I like Sovol overall as a company, I don't know that I could pull the trigger on an SV08. Not when Flying Bear apparently stealth-released the Reborn 3 very recently. It admittedly isn't as fast as the SV08 (only claiming 20,000 mm3/s acceleration and a recommended print speed of 150 mm/s) and it almost certainly still uses the rather silly top hat from the Reborn 2 as a cover, but claims it can hit 130˚C for the bed temperature, uses standard Volcano nozzles, runs on Klipper, has a magnetically-attached print head cover, and uses their massive dual-gear extruder with transparent cover. For $600 plus shipping. I want to see a review on this thing before I would ever buy it, but I suspect the mad lads at Flying Bear built yet another surprisingly good printer for such a ludicrously low price. If Sovol doesn't send you an SV08, perhaps you could get a Reborn 3 to test?
Feel like spray paint is a little bit overboard for those shelves you could probably just do a couple wraps of colored electrical or duct tape
I own a Kobra 2 Neo, and it’s on its third print head, but my issue is on most prints. And that would be these diagonal lines appearing around them. I don’t have a speedy printer here and I’m well aware of belt tension, but not exactly sure of what is correct belt tension and the correct method for any of my printers. I can’t see it being slicer setting as it doesn’t matter what the model is. I’ve been utilizing the new Fuzzy skin setting to cover this which works nicely and has a really nice look, but if your wanting that shiny silk look that changes. Thanks.
Do the diagonal lines show up on vertical faces of the print? If so, are they more pronounced in the XZ or YZ plane or look about the same? I had similar issues on both my Ender 3 and my now-defunct Artillery Sidewinder X1, and as I recall the final fix for both printers was to remove, disassemble, reassemble, and reinstall the hot end. I posted the issue in multiple places and other than one person suffering the same problem I never was able to get an answer or even ideas on what to look for; the only theory the other guy and I had was that the hot end was slightly loose on its mount to the rest of the print head, allowing it to wobble ever so slightly back and forth during printing.
11:07 that's pretty neat!
Seems there needs to be an auto backup of the firmware and setting before the upgrade proceeds
On the topic of firmware, seeing this with klipper is no different than what was seen when everyone was running Marlin. A company grabs a base line firmware, tweaks it to their machine and most times, ignores any cool features that may come out afterwards. I chock it up to a "eh it sells as is" thing. It seems they just grab what is needed and only make a change when things are broken.
I've had similar things happen with GRBL when hacking on it... change the layout of the settings struct and BINGO the values stored in the EEPROM are all wrong. In my case I was expecting it (so I didn't break any hardware) but... yeah.
what do ypu think about auto eject
Hmmm hope when they start shipping the sv08s they fix the issues popping up.
5:20 surprised we haven’t seen more manufactures implementing some kind of nozzle based z offset like voron tap or the force sensor on mk4’s. Makes z-offset so easy for end user as changing anything on hotend or bed surface doesn’t require re-calibrating.
I think that 0.4 looks about a 0.8 now. Not bad for how much it's shaved off. Also since it's nextruder it will totally still work if you change it to 0.8. lol
And it hast to be really good for ironing with that outer diameter 😅
@@kimmotoivanen I wasn't aware ironing had to do with nozzle diameter.
3:55 Tail-tease ❤😼
It will never cease to amaze me when 1 hour after this was posted, it had 271 views, and ONLY 27 LIKES !!!
It is a shame that the Giga has all these issues; Elegoo makes great printers and filament. Their Rapid PLA+ is my go to for most prints. I think they will get all of these issues fixed eventually, but one needs to keep this in mind when pre-ordering a printer. You are technically a beta tester in my opinion.
I updated the mk4 to 6.0 this week....while I was at work. There is one tiny issue. It wants to update the wifi module, but it asks you if it's ok. So it never reconnected. I had to hit yes when I got home. And my MMU3 and MMU3 upgrade have both shipped! It says arriving Monday. The seems a bit optimistic. We'll see. I need to print the nextruder parts and reprint some of the R4 parts since I printed R3 parts.
The solution to the Klipper problem is to actually have developers that are half decent developers, in fact, most of the issues are just basic ignorance of how git and linux work. China has been behind on their Linux stuff for a long time and this is the root of the Klipper problem, that "expertise" (read: basic understanding) isn't readily available. The simple solution is to fork their klipper with the necessary changes to a separate, public repo, then point the klipper update manage to THAT repo. Users can then send fixes and improvements to that, have it tested by the community in a sane manner, and then have that kind of thing pushed out when ready. This isn't new, its exactly how every other project works, except 3d printer firmware. Most klipper machines I end up rewriting the klipper configs myself just to get the thing to work the way it should have out of the box.
Re: the orangestorm. This whole thing should be recalled at this point. It needs to go back to the drawing board.
Re: the sv08 -- this is 100% typical behaviour from Sovol. The SV06 is probably the only printer they've made lately that wasn't a complete mess.
Will we see Amber in your Rocky Mountain videos? Miss her.
not another blo- HOLY SHIT
I was disappointed after i realized that the eleggo Neptune 4 series don't have a native Klipper Install,
And the updates form eleggo are also more bad as good
Well, Mars 4 resin printer doesn't do anti-aliasing (goo format or printer firmware is buggy) and boot loader may erase firmware when printer is turned on with USB memory stick (what came with the printer or 3rd party) in.
Have they been fixed? No. Is the firmware downloadable for "fixing" the erase issue? No (from Reddit yes, but not from Elegoo).
I think Elegoo is determined to push out new printers, not fixing their "old" 💩
_Disclaimer:_ both issues were known to us when we bought the Mars 4, but AC Photon Mono 2 was out of order. It's really quite nice even without AA (9k small screen) after a printer with 2k slightly smaller screen that started leaking light creating jell-o lumps to printed parts and bottom of the vat - and spare part screen was even worse (both Chitu)
Beta testing they say... Thanks Grant
Re: SV08 I don't think you should have to pay more to have a machine work properly especially when the components in question are a pin and a washer and some profiles! C'mon man - paying more is not the fix for these problems. Don't give them a reason to charge more to fix stuff that shouldn't be broken.
I know people like their ELEGOO’s and I’ve sent back 2 becuse they release and don’t have their act together or I would have gotten the osg
There is no excuse for printers using bedsprings in 2024. I tell noobs in the group that are just starting out. Get yourself a KE because it's as close to plug and print as you're going to get. Like the MK4 and the XL it taps the bed with a nozzle. I wouldn't touch elegoo or neptune with a 10ft pole for FDM printing just for the bed springs alone. Then you balloon it up to that size it's even worse. Imagine if creality made this printer instead of elegoo. It would probably just plain work. Which is funny because I used to tell people creality made terrible printers for the same reason.
Boooooooo
Ps I have a core xy
I can be an outlier, but I can't listen to the way the audio is cut. There is not breathing room. My brain can't handle 17 minutes without a half a second of quiet.
RUclipsr with cat? Insta sub! 👍🏼
Toolheads on springs would be the most moronic idea ever.
You complain about ghosting now? Just wait when toolhead is on _actual_ springs, not just too flexible mount (everything's a spring!)
First!