Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@WinterMadness Lol y'all are getting up in arms about Meltzer is saying. I don't even pay attention to Meltzer. I just watch AEW, TNA, and WWE and skip to the parts I want to watch lol. I especially avoid the 30-minute entrances and 30-minute promos. I'm not a simpleton and my time is precious.
@@TDotRedemption I don't think most people are upset or offended by meltzer, most are just clowning on him because they think what he's saying is silly and a cope. I respect how you watch wrestling and stuff, I often do the same with watching the stuff I like. Though I watch most of the entrances and promos, for me personally they're often just as entertaining if not even more than the matches; good entrances and good promos anyway. I'd watch a Cody entrance or a Swerve entrance a hundred times before getting bored hahaha
Naw, he's far worse than Shitstain could ever dream of being. At least ol' Vinnie Ru understood the need for rivalries and stories. He just lacked an understanding of storytelling outside of Jerry Springer and similar shows.
@@TDotRedemption nah it fell since he got wcw hogan level control over tony and continuously became the person he complained about 25 years ago. It’s just an even bigger joke now
It wasn't to long ago he tried to justify FTR losing to the Gunns because he thought they would feud after the tag tournament. Its been 4 months since then.
@@UncomfortableShoes Starting from Elimination Chamber 2013, there was a guy leaking results for the PPVs with complete accuracy, but towards HIAC, a few results were wrong/incomplete. Following Wrestlemania 30, he had some significantly wrong results (i.e. Taker beats Lesnar) and people started turning on him. Wrestlelamia has a video summing it up.
Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@TDotRedemption it definitely could be, and in that case it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but it'd still be cringe as well as bad PR. No fan who's watching a company that's in it's "struggling but needs to sink-or-swim" phase wants to hear it's performers bring up ratings from an elderly newsletter writer. Afaik even when WWE was at it's lowest business wise (like 1993-1996), they never brought up Meltzer ratings or anything, they tried everything they could to light a fire under the company and it's storylines so that business could pick up and so that viewers would come back again.
@@TDotRedemption even if it was a throwaway line, imagine how it would've been received if Angle brought up Meltzer stars in his feud with HBK, or if Austin brought it up feuding with Vince "The ol boss said I don't got what it takes to be the champion (WHAT) He says we need a corporate champion like The Rock (WHAT), but lemme ask ya son, does Rocky have any 4 star Meltzer rated matches? NEH EH" This is more of a joke than a 1:1 comparison don't get me wrong, I just think that stuff like internet stars shouldn't really be mentioned by the top stars in any given company, and Omega vs Ospreay is going to be part of this big story AEW is trying to craft that goes beyond the scope of anything they've done before, no matter what anyone or I thinks as someone who isn't personally a fan; it's going to be their all or nothing home run hit if it goes well, and imo it more than anything needs to feel like an absolutely intense blood feud, with less internet references and potshots.
OK I agree with everything you said, except for the bloodline storyline is the greatest storyline ever. Don’t get me wrong. It’s probably the best they’ve done in a decade. But let’s keep it real. Besides things like wrestlemania and Summer slam the week two week audience are still not even quite half of what it was in the 80s and 90s when those two Boom periods happened. If it was on fire like that AEW and WWE would both be doing five point twos in the ratings every week. When you’re not doing half of that you can’t really say it caught fire. Now I believe it’s the best in your lifetime but if you weren’t there in the 80s and 90s and I hate being that old guy but if you didn’t see it like we saw it then and we see it now, we acknowledge this is the best WWE has been in 15 years. I can tell Triple H is on a mission to create stars that were as big as the stars of the 80s and 90s. There was a time when pro wrestlers were as big of a celebrity as rappers and basketball players. But I believe we might be on the path. If WWE keeps going in the projection they are going they could get back there. it really hasn’t been there since the 2000s the 2000s is really win it all died off.
Bryan Danielson vs Will Osprey at Dynasty was supposedly the "best match ever in the US". Not only does this basically say (Meltzer's words) that the best wrestling has been and will always be in Japan (its not) but that this was supposedly the shining example of it. Now if you like wrestling only for people doing moves at each other then I can maybe see your point there but on literally every other point that we should be judging wrestling on (story, presentation, the stakes, the show) its a nothing burger of a match. A match that supposed to be the gold standard should not have completely disappeared from discourse like that one did, meanwhile people will be talking about the Cody Rhodes vs Roman Reigns match at wrestlemania 40 for decades because of the story and all that went into it. Meltzer's form of wrestling is failing and soon (if ratings and tickets and sales are anything to go by) so will AEW. Great video man!
I know people like Orange Cassidy, but when you have a company of the best wrestlers in the world and none of them can beat the guy with his hands in his pockets you're burying the entire company
Im not AEW watcher and i know him lil bit,man put both of his hand in hia pocket and wrestler using his body&,leg when he in the match ..the company top star lose to him?is that right??damn that is horrible decision
What are you talking about? It's a great product that I'm enjoying watching and supporting. If you think that makes me delusional, I'm afraid you're looking in the wrong direction.
If you think Turner was booking for the internet, you clearly didn’t use the internet in the late 90’s. MySpace wasn’t even a thing yet. The internet was nothing but dick jokes and viruses. It was total chaos
WWE's hottest feud at the moment is between two wrestlers that are injured. That should communicate pretty clearly how (NOT) important the wrestling part of pro-wrestling is. 🤣
So your saying that 2 injured wrestlers can get more interest in miles going the the entire AEW rosters with former WWE legends and international stars heading? Do that sound sad to you?
@@user-on9ie2lm1y absolutely! That's the point. And it's why "Where the best wrestle" is such a tragic tagline for AEW. Yes, we know the wrestling is the 'best', it's just everything else Pro-Wrestling needs to do that clearly is not.
It's funny how you mention that nobody knows/remembers why Ospreay and Danielson were fighting, because AEW themselves seem to have forgotten about the one thing that came out of that match- the whole Tiger Driver storyline got ruined by Danielson coming back so quickly.
The idea of Kenny and Ospreay feuding about being Dave Meltzer's favorite wrestler is so unbelievably dumb but why stop there? When MJF comes back why not have him and Moxley feud about how Jim Cornette praises MJF and mocks Moxley. Yes it sounds dumb. But its just as dumb as Omega and Ospreay feuding over fucking star ratings
I'd honestly believe that Kenny vs. Ospreay was about the theory of evolution in relation to house cats before Meltzer, and my bullshit wouldn't even make sense if Tony tried to make it work
Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@user-kz2rw4zs9f He said it's building a feud and all "part" of an angle. How big of a part does it have to be? It doesn't have to be a significant part in the grand scheme of things lol. Omega and Osprey are arguably the best wrestlers in the world and are known for putting on amazing matches. When debating who is better, you honestly can't see one of them saying in a promo, "I've put on more 5-star matches than you"? It's such an easy one-liner. Honestly, this tweet is nothing to fuss over lol. I also barely pay attention to Meltzer. Then again I barely pay attention to what any of the wrestling critics say these days.
So Osprey finds the cure to diverticulitis, but refuses to give it to Omega. When Omega confronts Osprey in the ring, CM Punk’s music hits, and Kota Ibushi walks out (“Cult of Personality” is just for the pop, since most people don’t know who Ibushi is). He tells Omega he’s there to have his back and hands him a paper with the cure written on it. Omega reads it aloud, and it finishes with “you got played”. Ibushi and Osprey beat Omega down. Can Kenny Omega recover in time to have an 8 star match against Will Osprey, who has Ibushi in his corner? You’re just gunna have to order Full Gear to find out! Spoiler: Omega comes out to the ring with Meltzer in his corner. Or scratch all that and have a Meltzer on a pole match, Judy Bagwell style.
Those wrestlers don’t care because Tony is willing to pay them out the ass. Hell Riho said in an interview that she made 400k year for being a part time wrestler
@vince11harris That number for Riho sounded insane to me. But the fact that the perpetually online AEW never corrected it makes me think it is very true.
The Meltzer hate aside, AEW won't shutter up its windows and quit overnight. It won't be another WCW. Rather it will be in the same stable as NWA and TNA, and that's what they really need. To be humbled and shut the obnoxious side of wrestling fandom down for the good of it all.
I dunno it would be awesome to see the WWE "Yeet" themselves and since WWE fans are glorifying a 4-move "MAin EvEnt" Jey Uso lol. Jey Uso literally has the worst superkick and top-rope splash in the industry. Solo Sikoa looks like the Wish version of The Weeknd (singer) or a nightclub bouncer lol. I don't know who gave him the go ahead to wear those awfully designed and fitted suits. He doesn't look believable as a leader of a top faction lol. I like to watch WWE, TNA, and AEW btw, but the 30 minute promos and entrances and having Roman Reigns barely defend the title was cringe AF. Thank God for highlights to avoid all of that as well as avoid being spoon fed storylines like a baby. Occasionally WWE has good wrestling.
@@TDotRedemption I'm not saying WWE isn't without its own obnoxious fandom themselves. A lot of it has to do with the mini-Meltzers out there that have their own podcasts, websites, and channels that purposely hype one company so that they can hop on the algorithm and make some revenue. Once you realize some of this hype is only for content, you can act accordingly and not engage with these leaches.
I honestly hope AEW doesn't get snacked down. Its basically a containment zone for a huge chunk of the most annoying wrestling fans. I love that they get something they enjoy that is far away from me. Its a win/win.
@@donniejefferson9554 it's honestly not even a comparison to WCW. They'll still have their own wrestling show, just be surprised to see it still on TNT. Just look at how TNA descended and you'll likely see the same thing with Aew
@@digdugdat2847 Tony has enough money that it'll last until he gets bored. It's really just a matter of whether or not he'll want to keep doing it once he's on a smaller network.
As a fan I really want AEW to succeed for the talent to work. As a person that had to listen to goofballs of the IWC and Dave for years, watching AEW’s continual downward trend is glorious. They got exactly what they wanted and it’s been ass.
I'm glad more and more people are calling Dave out on his very clear anti wwe bias and just how ridiculous how serious some people take his 5 star system
Also, the sad thing is that if they did this Elite takeover angle correctly and had the Bucks be SUPPORTING the natural heel boss Tony Kahn, they could lean all the way into it. Like Tony walking around backstage sticking gold star stickers on all his favorites, cancelling matches based on Tweets, Making all the wrestlers work the name "Meltzer" into their finishers, etc. They can incorporate the IWC into storylines and have it work, but they would have to include the biggest mark at the company... it's founder!
You're not wrong. Since he's getting piledrived (piledriven?) on TV he can easily be an on screen authority figure. But he'd never do that cause how many stars did Vince ever get being an on screen authority figure?
@@gezeo750 If TK was a true booker he would understand that it's not how many stars would Vince get... it's how many Stars he GOT OVER. There's no Stone Cold if there's no Mr. McMahon. Imagine how elevated Swerve could be if he could take on the head of AEW and say, "Hey, you were FORCED to give me a title shot because I won these people over, and you're still trying to squash me?! Do I need to squash YOU now?!!" 😁
Huge facts about most fans caring about story and character rather than wrestling workrate. Kurt Angle is my personal favorite of all time, his wrestling and iconic matches speak for themselves (apparently not for Dave, though), but you know what? I think his iconic promos and character work is the most important part of Angle's career overall. Not only are they replayed way more than even his iconic matches, but without the comedy and good promos, Angle wouldve been another amazing wrestler with no personality or extra interest, he wouldve been a better version of Dean Malenko. But because of his personality, promos and comedy, he stood out as a rookie in an era with Austin, The Rock, HHH and The Undertaker, an era where almost any wrestler in history wouldve been overshadowed in their rookie year (Brock is probably the only other one whos rookie year wouldve still stood out had it happened in 1999 as well). I enjoy amazing matches as much as the next guy, but its those iconic promos, hilarious segments, or vignettes that stick in people's memories years later. Its the same reason that HBK's "who's your daddy, Montreal" is just as iconic and replayed as even his most iconic superkicks.
Kenny and Will should feud over whose opinion on Star Wars Episode II Attack of the Clones is Roger Eberts or RottenTomatoes audience score is more correct . At least more people would know what the fuck they are talking about.
CM Punk vs Drew McIntyre is a highly anticipated match between two Men that are currently injured just based on their story. All AEW needs is simple stories that feeds one week to the next
Like it or not, once Cody Rhodes who was booker, running production meetings & literally on the cans in Gorilla, left all of it in TK's hands, the entire company has fallen off a damn cliff. 💯
As much of a theater kid as Cody turned out to be when given too much creative control, it's bleedingly obvious that he knew how to run a show from a production point. He clearly paid attention to his father.
I'm glad I used to read the Torch back in the 90s & never was an Observer guy. The fact this guy has any influence on what appears on wrestling shows is downright pathetic
In a way, I agree, but I can't help but be glad. For decades, this guy has lectured people who've actually succeeded in the business (Ole, Corny, Bischoff, et al) about how it SHOULD be done, and AEW is the first major test of Meltzer's philosophy. Were it not for the fact that Tony has destroyed the independent scene, perhaps irreparably, the dissolution of AEW into irrelevance would be celebrated for finally putting the nail in the coffin of the Meltzer mindset, and we could get back to wrestling presenting stories in more places than just the WWE. The elevation of suicidal stunts over engaging storytelling has been the death of wrestilng, and I for one can't wait to see it end.
Man this is what wrestling news is supposed to be I love it Bro wrestling bits is the best! I met pro wrestling but is the best! I with you all the way in Swahili Brother!!
“What about the casual fans” with AEW is hilarious, they don’t care about casual fans for some reason, even though the way you make hardcore fans is by taking casual fans and entertaining them enough to convert them. It’s the weird thing that they can’t get their heads around and instead try to gatekeep
I think we're seeing a fair bit of recency bias here. WWE was hot garbage for at least seven years since McMahon lost his mind, and between that and every other promotion going the indie/Meltzer direction, it's been a very long time since people have even SEEN compelling storytelling in wrestling. Saltines for the starved, as it were.
Mount Kilimanjaro line was so OP and funny asf at the same time! Tuna Meltzer journalistic integrity and standards has plummeted in 2024, that drop tho 😂! Truth be told aEw fans are in major denial, they say “ratings don’t matter” “TK saved pro-wrestling” “aEw is under constant A T T A C K” and of the course the line of lines “where the best wrestler, it’s not just a catch phrase, it’s TRU” it’s ludicrous haha! Alfred k i l l e d it once again with a banger of a DOC!
I do love "where the best wrestle," because it's such a watered down, lifeless version of "where the big boys play," further cementing that AEW < WCW. Not only that, but it allows a bit of mockery. "Where the best shorten their careers and cripple themselves." Seriously, there's NO WAY old-ass Edge is going to be walking normally after that stupid ass bump.
To be fair, even Jim Cornette believes the Omega stream was a work, mainly because he pointed out how phony Omega sounded compared to, for example, the way he sounded when he was legit spilling tea about Rossi Ogawa not too long ago. I am fully confident that Tony Khan is THAT much of a mark that he would construct a storyline about star ratings. And Dave is willing to play along so long as he gets to be around the "cool kids". All of this is ghey, and the only thing we can hope for is Ospreay comes out of this unscathed so he can get the fuck out of AEW.
The morale of the story is that video games talks work for Omega like a truth serum and in order to hear bs from Meltzer all it takes is to call him out on beeing wrong or ask him uncomfortable question.
There’s only one bit of information I was waiting for you to drop. Dave Meltzer was one of, if not The Biggest, consultants to Tony Kahn.. During the assembly phase of AEW. This company is just as much Dave Meltzers vision, as it is Tony Kahn’s.
I thought Kenny was shooting but after listening to Cornette, I think he’s right, that it’s a work. Which is completely bizarre, as you mentioned. But I think Dave is usually wrong about WWE, not AEW, because his friends are at AEW and they do tell him inside info. I do think the star ratings are a factor in how Tony books but I think a lot of it is just his views on how wrestling should be. I don’t think the endless eliminator matches are about Dave, for example. And when people like Ospreay and Omega do a match, it’s not like Tony is telling them when to flip. If this is a work though, it’s definitely Tony pandering to the hardest core AEW fans.
Hot take: Meltzer has always sucked. Period. Dude's "reviews" of matches are just him listing all THE MOVEZ. Keep speaking the truth, Alfred. Edit: You also forgot Meltzer's favorite part of Kenny and Will: they're white dudes wrestling in Japan.
I believe Kenny is working in that clip... but it's crazy that Dave is so insecure he's basic like no Kenny likes me it's a work. Dave is a paid pundit.
I appreciate you recognizing how big the Bloodline has been. Because of its success and because of its flaws (it had a *lot* in mid-late 2023), many people dismiss it or underestimate the effect its had on the industry. But Roman, Jey, Sami, Solo, Cody, hell even KO are so much different than without the Bloodline, and ratings had such a high upswing even long before the Rock came back (i saw average yearly smackdown ratings, 2023 smackdown was hundreds of thousands above 2021 smackdown for example). Hell, as much as i love Cody and think hes a huge star now since he and The Rock both got involved into the story, while the ratings drop is way overblown by many Roman marks, ratings *have* fallen a bit and been unable to reach the high that they had with the Bloodline; again, long before The Rock came back too. The Bloodline is easily the largest draw in current wrestling, and is probably the most discussion WWE has gotten since the invasion in 2001 (excluding stuff like Benoit in 2007). Excluding The Rock, the bloodline members obviously arent anywhere as recognizable as Cena or Stone Cold, but they just had one of those big stories that makes wrestlers break into the stratosphere like that.
have Osprey help Omega against the Bucks, they become tag champs then end up fueding. Smh seen it many times, but it's TK's booking at its finest. We all know it will happen. AEW is predictable
Dave "The Melt" Meltzer used to actually have some real insight into pro wrestling but his rating sytem has been a Joke for yeras. He is embarrassing for the buisness.
such a satisfying video. imagine how impactful a match like ospreay vs bryan would've been if it had a story to back it up. tony khan needs to stop catering to meltzer and the chronically online twitter marks. he needs to maintain the good wrestling yes, but include some actual feuds to care about. this is why i NEVER watch their weekly shows anymore. there is no good stories going on, like ever. notice how punk vs mjf was a great feud with great matches? all around great story telling, in ring and out. that was AEW's peak and is called one of the best feuds of the modern era. keep doing things like this. stop booking 3 week stories to lead into a 5 star match that people will talk about for a day then forget about. roman vs cody wm 40 people still talk about. great in ring match with years of story leading into it. it'll be a match talked about forever. not trying to discredit their amazing in ring work, obviously some of the best wrestlers alive today, but in a year, people will have barely anything to say about a match like bryan vs ospreay.
I called it the moment Kenny put over Punk on stream... its all a work. That will draw zero new fans. Sorry to get political here, but if you think a guy worth $50bil should be able to give all that to his kids when he dies, my counter argument is this: Tony Khan and Paris Hilton. Give them 2% and give 98% towards something like small business tax breaks for raising wages.
dave believes it was his challenge that created aew ...so he is hell bent on shoving aew on all wrestling fans , even when its complete s h i t , he will polish that shit and sell it ....dave is a reverse p r o s t i t u t e ...
McMahon v Austin was and is by far WWE’s greatest storyline and could the greatest in wrestling history. Shawn v Brett is up there too. Bloodline was cool but not the greatest. Steen v Elgenerico, The NWO, Dusty v Horseman all were great too. But Austin v McMahon is by far the best
It's always a lame "Angle" But NEVER any damn Stories. NO long term booking or storylines. TK is poorly booking Indyriffic wrestlers for an internet fanbase consisting of geeks, virgins & neckbeards, who have never gone outside & touched grass in their lives. NOW TK is going to build a feud based on jackass Meltzer's "Star ratings"? OMG AEW IS WACK AF! 🤦🏻♂
Sleepy Dave Meltzer is one of the reasons why AEW is in the shape it's in right now. AEW, more specifically Tony Khan continuously bends his product to this man's will and approval just so he can give you those meaningless imaginary star matches. The sooner sleepy Dave retires the better pro wrestling will be. That doesn't just go for Sleepy Dave either. That goes for other so-called "wrestling journalists" too. I.e Sean Ross Sapp
AEW is trying to cater to a small niche indy crowd instead of trying bring new fans into wrestling. Dave has given more five star matches to Kenny Omega than Bret Hart.
I don't think anyone has to take Dave Meltzer's rating system that seriously. He has his own opinion. Are there a lot of 5-star matches outside of the WWE? Of course, the severely move set will limit the WWE's ability to put on 5-star matches, but overall, the wrestling is better in Japan. Bret Hart should've received more 5-star ratings for his matches, but I don't think he put on more than Kenny Omega and Bret Hart is in my top 5 favorite wrestlers of all-time. Best technical wrestler ever IMO and makes everyone he wrestles better than they are.
Lol y'all know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
Wouldnt a star rating feud involve them both thinking the stat ratings mean something? It doesnt work if you go... "Hey I've got more 5 star matches than you" "I don't care"
i remember when Katsuyori Shibata got injured against Okada when he hit that headbutt, bro said on his podcast that they were going for a feud or a angle to make it seem like shibata was injured
ruclips.net/video/I4KiaTlY6dI/видео.html
A star rating feud is the most neckbeard thing ever
Very fitting for AEW
Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@TDotRedemptionCope
@@WinterMadness Lol y'all are getting up in arms about Meltzer is saying. I don't even pay attention to Meltzer.
I just watch AEW, TNA, and WWE and skip to the parts I want to watch lol.
I especially avoid the 30-minute entrances and 30-minute promos. I'm not a simpleton and my time is precious.
@@TDotRedemption I don't think most people are upset or offended by meltzer, most are just clowning on him because they think what he's saying is silly and a cope.
I respect how you watch wrestling and stuff, I often do the same with watching the stuff I like. Though I watch most of the entrances and promos, for me personally they're often just as entertaining if not even more than the matches; good entrances and good promos anyway. I'd watch a Cody entrance or a Swerve entrance a hundred times before getting bored hahaha
Dave Meltzer is to current wrestling what Vince Russo was to wrestling in 2000
he is unknowingly the true booker of aew.
Naw, he's far worse than Shitstain could ever dream of being. At least ol' Vinnie Ru understood the need for rivalries and stories. He just lacked an understanding of storytelling outside of Jerry Springer and similar shows.
AEW has been all about pleasing Meltzer. It assumes the whole wrestling audience reads the observer. It’s basically PWG with a budget.
In 2024? Mate, he's been spiralling since 2018 at least.
He's been spiraling way longer than that
There's a reason why Hogan tore an WON magazine on TV back in the 90s
@@williamwolfxrivera9929Say again?
@@Bls-of1ld on an Episode of Nitro which was probably around 97 Hogan had the WON Magazine and tore it up during an in ring interview
The credibility of both Jericho and Meltzer have been destroyed since AEW began.
Jericho's credibility has only recently fell off with the FTW title and the Learning Tree angle
@@TDotRedemption nah it fell since he got wcw hogan level control over tony and continuously became the person he complained about 25 years ago. It’s just an even bigger joke now
Jericho has been a joke since Le Dinner Dumbassaire and Mimosa Mayhem.
Jerichos run at the start when he was feuding with Cody was decent, but I agree he’s absolutely terrible now
Jericho became a joke after he became the very thing he jumped ship to WWE to avoid, a veteran who won't let younger stars outshine him
It wasn't to long ago he tried to justify FTR losing to the Gunns because he thought they would feud after the tag tournament. Its been 4 months since then.
Every time Dave is wrong “Plans changed.”
@@UncomfortableShoes Starting to remind me of the Dolphins1925 debacle.
@@cameronbigley7483 lol what’s that?
@@UncomfortableShoes Starting from Elimination Chamber 2013, there was a guy leaking results for the PPVs with complete accuracy, but towards HIAC, a few results were wrong/incomplete. Following Wrestlemania 30, he had some significantly wrong results (i.e. Taker beats Lesnar) and people started turning on him. Wrestlelamia has a video summing it up.
@@cameronbigley7483 lol wow
Dave Meltzer is delusional. Its kind of sad. Its funny how John Cena politely roasted him.
Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@TDotRedemption it definitely could be, and in that case it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but it'd still be cringe as well as bad PR. No fan who's watching a company that's in it's "struggling but needs to sink-or-swim" phase wants to hear it's performers bring up ratings from an elderly newsletter writer.
Afaik even when WWE was at it's lowest business wise (like 1993-1996), they never brought up Meltzer ratings or anything, they tried everything they could to light a fire under the company and it's storylines so that business could pick up and so that viewers would come back again.
@@TDotRedemption even if it was a throwaway line, imagine how it would've been received if Angle brought up Meltzer stars in his feud with HBK, or if Austin brought it up feuding with Vince
"The ol boss said I don't got what it takes to be the champion (WHAT) He says we need a corporate champion like The Rock (WHAT), but lemme ask ya son, does Rocky have any 4 star Meltzer rated matches? NEH EH"
This is more of a joke than a 1:1 comparison don't get me wrong, I just think that stuff like internet stars shouldn't really be mentioned by the top stars in any given company, and Omega vs Ospreay is going to be part of this big story AEW is trying to craft that goes beyond the scope of anything they've done before, no matter what anyone or I thinks as someone who isn't personally a fan; it's going to be their all or nothing home run hit if it goes well, and imo it more than anything needs to feel like an absolutely intense blood feud, with less internet references and potshots.
Meltzer is a walking paradox. He's kind of sad and kind of funny at the same time.
OK I agree with everything you said, except for the bloodline storyline is the greatest storyline ever. Don’t get me wrong. It’s probably the best they’ve done in a decade. But let’s keep it real. Besides things like wrestlemania and Summer slam the week two week audience are still not even quite half of what it was in the 80s and 90s when those two Boom periods happened. If it was on fire like that AEW and WWE would both be doing five point twos in the ratings every week. When you’re not doing half of that you can’t really say it caught fire. Now I believe it’s the best in your lifetime but if you weren’t there in the 80s and 90s and I hate being that old guy but if you didn’t see it like we saw it then and we see it now, we acknowledge this is the best WWE has been in 15 years. I can tell Triple H is on a mission to create stars that were as big as the stars of the 80s and 90s. There was a time when pro wrestlers were as big of a celebrity as rappers and basketball players. But I believe we might be on the path. If WWE keeps going in the projection they are going they could get back there. it really hasn’t been there since the 2000s the 2000s is really win it all died off.
Bryan Danielson vs Will Osprey at Dynasty was supposedly the "best match ever in the US". Not only does this basically say (Meltzer's words) that the best wrestling has been and will always be in Japan (its not) but that this was supposedly the shining example of it. Now if you like wrestling only for people doing moves at each other then I can maybe see your point there but on literally every other point that we should be judging wrestling on (story, presentation, the stakes, the show) its a nothing burger of a match. A match that supposed to be the gold standard should not have completely disappeared from discourse like that one did, meanwhile people will be talking about the Cody Rhodes vs Roman Reigns match at wrestlemania 40 for decades because of the story and all that went into it. Meltzer's form of wrestling is failing and soon (if ratings and tickets and sales are anything to go by) so will AEW. Great video man!
I know people like Orange Cassidy, but when you have a company of the best wrestlers in the world and none of them can beat the guy with his hands in his pockets you're burying the entire company
Im not AEW watcher and i know him lil bit,man put both of his hand in hia pocket and wrestler using his body&,leg when he in the match ..the company top star lose to him?is that right??damn that is horrible decision
Everything is fine - delusional aew fans 😂😂😂
While sitting in a burning Apartment Building
What are you talking about? It's a great product that I'm enjoying watching and supporting. If you think that makes me delusional, I'm afraid you're looking in the wrong direction.
@@lordrosemounti hope thats tongue in cheek
@@jimjiggles1474 it is
Booking for the Internet never works, just ask wcw.
What?
And nothing about wrestling, the internet, nor the audience has changed in the last 25 years, of course.
If you think Turner was booking for the internet, you clearly didn’t use the internet in the late 90’s. MySpace wasn’t even a thing yet.
The internet was nothing but dick jokes and viruses. It was total chaos
Does the internet was that used during WCW?
@@NickelSack79 Turner was booking?! Jokes aside, fair points in your post 👍👍
WWE's hottest feud at the moment is between two wrestlers that are injured.
That should communicate pretty clearly how (NOT) important the wrestling part of pro-wrestling is. 🤣
I get what you're saying, but the gap isn't that wide in importance. The catharsis comes from the wrestling but we care because of the feuds.
@@anibal5845 Correct, my friend. I don't think we're saying different things. 😁
So your saying that 2 injured wrestlers can get more interest in miles going the the entire AEW rosters with former WWE legends and international stars heading? Do that sound sad to you?
@@joshwent right, I'm just commenting on your point.
@@user-on9ie2lm1y absolutely! That's the point. And it's why "Where the best wrestle" is such a tragic tagline for AEW.
Yes, we know the wrestling is the 'best', it's just everything else Pro-Wrestling needs to do that clearly is not.
It's funny how you mention that nobody knows/remembers why Ospreay and Danielson were fighting, because AEW themselves seem to have forgotten about the one thing that came out of that match- the whole Tiger Driver storyline got ruined by Danielson coming back so quickly.
Good point, I completely forgot.
Even IF Dave is right and this is part of an angle, Dave just ruined it lmao
The idea of Kenny and Ospreay feuding about being Dave Meltzer's favorite wrestler is so unbelievably dumb but why stop there?
When MJF comes back why not have him and Moxley feud about how Jim Cornette praises MJF and mocks Moxley. Yes it sounds dumb. But its just as dumb as Omega and Ospreay feuding over fucking star ratings
I'd honestly believe that Kenny vs. Ospreay was about the theory of evolution in relation to house cats before Meltzer, and my bullshit wouldn't even make sense if Tony tried to make it work
Please don't wish MJF to come back to AEW...
Lol you know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
@@TDotRedemption why build an one liner then? ( assuming dave is correct , which is unproven) plus he explicitly said "angle "
@@user-kz2rw4zs9f He said it's building a feud and all "part" of an angle. How big of a part does it have to be? It doesn't have to be a significant part in the grand scheme of things lol.
Omega and Osprey are arguably the best wrestlers in the world and are known for putting on amazing matches.
When debating who is better, you honestly can't see one of them saying in a promo, "I've put on more 5-star matches than you"? It's such an easy one-liner.
Honestly, this tweet is nothing to fuss over lol. I also barely pay attention to Meltzer. Then again I barely pay attention to what any of the wrestling critics say these days.
You know it's bad when even AEW wrestlers don't get why you always give them 5 stars 💀
So Osprey finds the cure to diverticulitis, but refuses to give it to Omega. When Omega confronts Osprey in the ring, CM Punk’s music hits, and Kota Ibushi walks out (“Cult of Personality” is just for the pop, since most people don’t know who Ibushi is). He tells Omega he’s there to have his back and hands him a paper with the cure written on it. Omega reads it aloud, and it finishes with “you got played”. Ibushi and Osprey beat Omega down. Can Kenny Omega recover in time to have an 8 star match against Will Osprey, who has Ibushi in his corner? You’re just gunna have to order Full Gear to find out! Spoiler: Omega comes out to the ring with Meltzer in his corner. Or scratch all that and have a Meltzer on a pole match, Judy Bagwell style.
BOOK IT SNOWMAN!!
I think the worst part about AEW is they are taking generational wrestling talents and using them in ways that are almost always forgettable.
Those wrestlers don’t care because Tony is willing to pay them out the ass. Hell Riho said in an interview that she made 400k year for being a part time wrestler
@vince11harris That number for Riho sounded insane to me. But the fact that the perpetually online AEW never corrected it makes me think it is very true.
@@sonegreat it’s definitely true. She said it in an interview which has been deleted
Have never cared for what Dave says, and I’ve followed wrestling for almost 30 years
"Uhm, you know, uhm, well, you know, BRYAAAAAAAAAAN."
😄😄😄
Meltzer have John Laurinitis gave him a 5 star match. Let that sink in.
Tbf it was a 6 man tag
Even IF the fued was about stars, the fact Melzter came out and said it, it broke all the realness of it. He should've went with it.
You'd have to tweet like 25 times a day, every single day for 10 years to get to 100,000.
The Meltzer hate aside, AEW won't shutter up its windows and quit overnight. It won't be another WCW. Rather it will be in the same stable as NWA and TNA, and that's what they really need. To be humbled and shut the obnoxious side of wrestling fandom down for the good of it all.
I dunno it would be awesome to see the WWE "Yeet" themselves and since WWE fans are glorifying a 4-move "MAin EvEnt" Jey Uso lol. Jey Uso literally has the worst superkick and top-rope splash in the industry. Solo Sikoa looks like the Wish version of The Weeknd (singer) or a nightclub bouncer lol. I don't know who gave him the go ahead to wear those awfully designed and fitted suits. He doesn't look believable as a leader of a top faction lol.
I like to watch WWE, TNA, and AEW btw, but the 30 minute promos and entrances and having Roman Reigns barely defend the title was cringe AF. Thank God for highlights to avoid all of that as well as avoid being spoon fed storylines like a baby. Occasionally WWE has good wrestling.
@@TDotRedemption I'm not saying WWE isn't without its own obnoxious fandom themselves. A lot of it has to do with the mini-Meltzers out there that have their own podcasts, websites, and channels that purposely hype one company so that they can hop on the algorithm and make some revenue.
Once you realize some of this hype is only for content, you can act accordingly and not engage with these leaches.
I honestly hope AEW doesn't get snacked down. Its basically a containment zone for a huge chunk of the most annoying wrestling fans. I love that they get something they enjoy that is far away from me. Its a win/win.
@@donniejefferson9554 it's honestly not even a comparison to WCW. They'll still have their own wrestling show, just be surprised to see it still on TNT.
Just look at how TNA descended and you'll likely see the same thing with Aew
@@digdugdat2847 Tony has enough money that it'll last until he gets bored. It's really just a matter of whether or not he'll want to keep doing it once he's on a smaller network.
As a fan I really want AEW to succeed for the talent to work. As a person that had to listen to goofballs of the IWC and Dave for years, watching AEW’s continual downward trend is glorious. They got exactly what they wanted and it’s been ass.
These are harsh words for Dave, it must've hurt his soul.
I'm glad more and more people are calling Dave out on his very clear anti wwe bias and just how ridiculous how serious some people take his 5 star system
Meltzer aside, canonizing someone that's not on your payroll as a benchmark of prestige is not a wise business move.
Also, the sad thing is that if they did this Elite takeover angle correctly and had the Bucks be SUPPORTING the natural heel boss Tony Kahn, they could lean all the way into it. Like Tony walking around backstage sticking gold star stickers on all his favorites, cancelling matches based on Tweets, Making all the wrestlers work the name "Meltzer" into their finishers, etc.
They can incorporate the IWC into storylines and have it work, but they would have to include the biggest mark at the company... it's founder!
You're not wrong. Since he's getting piledrived (piledriven?) on TV he can easily be an on screen authority figure. But he'd never do that cause how many stars did Vince ever get being an on screen authority figure?
True but the Bucks think of themselves as 'cool tweeners', so they're desperate to try and put themselves over
@@gezeo750 If TK was a true booker he would understand that it's not how many stars would Vince get... it's how many Stars he GOT OVER.
There's no Stone Cold if there's no Mr. McMahon. Imagine how elevated Swerve could be if he could take on the head of AEW and say, "Hey, you were FORCED to give me a title shot because I won these people over, and you're still trying to squash me?! Do I need to squash YOU now?!!" 😁
Huge facts about most fans caring about story and character rather than wrestling workrate.
Kurt Angle is my personal favorite of all time, his wrestling and iconic matches speak for themselves (apparently not for Dave, though), but you know what?
I think his iconic promos and character work is the most important part of Angle's career overall. Not only are they replayed way more than even his iconic matches, but without the comedy and good promos, Angle wouldve been another amazing wrestler with no personality or extra interest, he wouldve been a better version of Dean Malenko. But because of his personality, promos and comedy, he stood out as a rookie in an era with Austin, The Rock, HHH and The Undertaker, an era where almost any wrestler in history wouldve been overshadowed in their rookie year (Brock is probably the only other one whos rookie year wouldve still stood out had it happened in 1999 as well).
I enjoy amazing matches as much as the next guy, but its those iconic promos, hilarious segments, or vignettes that stick in people's memories years later. Its the same reason that HBK's "who's your daddy, Montreal" is just as iconic and replayed as even his most iconic superkicks.
Kenny and Will should feud over whose opinion on Star Wars Episode II Attack of the Clones is Roger Eberts or RottenTomatoes audience score is more correct . At least more people would know what the fuck they are talking about.
Oh boy somebody go get Uncle Dave! He's at it again. 6 stars 7 stars 8 stars make it make sense! The man is clearly having delusions of grandeur.
They should be feuding on who has the bigger small package.
Ospreay and Omega should be feuding over the last Baby back Rib at Chilis.
CM Punk vs Drew McIntyre is a highly anticipated match between two Men that are currently injured just based on their story. All AEW needs is simple stories that feeds one week to the next
Does anyone other than IWC smarks believe anything Meltzer says?
No. But the IWC smarks are the only people Tony cares about. This thing's going to be on Fite 24 before very long.
Like it or not, once Cody Rhodes who was booker, running production meetings & literally on the cans in Gorilla, left all of it in TK's hands, the entire company has fallen off a damn cliff. 💯
As much of a theater kid as Cody turned out to be when given too much creative control, it's bleedingly obvious that he knew how to run a show from a production point. He clearly paid attention to his father.
Anyone who could explain that 5 star feud to their gf def doesn’t have a gf
I'm glad I used to read the Torch back in the 90s & never was an Observer guy. The fact this guy has any influence on what appears on wrestling shows is downright pathetic
In a way, I agree, but I can't help but be glad. For decades, this guy has lectured people who've actually succeeded in the business (Ole, Corny, Bischoff, et al) about how it SHOULD be done, and AEW is the first major test of Meltzer's philosophy. Were it not for the fact that Tony has destroyed the independent scene, perhaps irreparably, the dissolution of AEW into irrelevance would be celebrated for finally putting the nail in the coffin of the Meltzer mindset, and we could get back to wrestling presenting stories in more places than just the WWE. The elevation of suicidal stunts over engaging storytelling has been the death of wrestilng, and I for one can't wait to see it end.
Wait. Dave has a legacy???
Meltzer will never grow up
Man this is what wrestling news is supposed to be I love it Bro wrestling bits is the best! I met pro wrestling but is the best! I with you all the way in Swahili Brother!!
Don't insult Super-Dave like that!!! 😂
Even if Meltzer is right, it is such a stupid reason to feud over each other.
"New Japan Pro White Boys" 😂
We smoking on that Meltzer pack
“What about the casual fans” with AEW is hilarious, they don’t care about casual fans for some reason, even though the way you make hardcore fans is by taking casual fans and entertaining them enough to convert them. It’s the weird thing that they can’t get their heads around and instead try to gatekeep
I agree with everything besides “the blood has been WWE’s most successful storyline of all time” which is wild to even say with a straight face
I think we're seeing a fair bit of recency bias here. WWE was hot garbage for at least seven years since McMahon lost his mind, and between that and every other promotion going the indie/Meltzer direction, it's been a very long time since people have even SEEN compelling storytelling in wrestling. Saltines for the starved, as it were.
AEW has really exposed Dave Meltzer's bias. His credibility has fallen so much since they started.
Mount Kilimanjaro line was so OP and funny asf at the same time! Tuna Meltzer journalistic integrity and standards has plummeted in 2024, that drop tho 😂! Truth be told aEw fans are in major denial, they say “ratings don’t matter” “TK saved pro-wrestling” “aEw is under constant A T T A C K” and of the course the line of lines “where the best wrestler, it’s not just a catch phrase, it’s TRU” it’s ludicrous haha! Alfred k i l l e d it once again with a banger of a DOC!
I do love "where the best wrestle," because it's such a watered down, lifeless version of "where the big boys play," further cementing that AEW < WCW. Not only that, but it allows a bit of mockery. "Where the best shorten their careers and cripple themselves."
Seriously, there's NO WAY old-ass Edge is going to be walking normally after that stupid ass bump.
Dave should really just stop
Osprey as the Golden Homewrecker?🤣🤣🤣
Okay, that, I'd actually would be invested in storyline wise.
To be fair, even Jim Cornette believes the Omega stream was a work, mainly because he pointed out how phony Omega sounded compared to, for example, the way he sounded when he was legit spilling tea about Rossi Ogawa not too long ago.
I am fully confident that Tony Khan is THAT much of a mark that he would construct a storyline about star ratings. And Dave is willing to play along so long as he gets to be around the "cool kids".
All of this is ghey, and the only thing we can hope for is Ospreay comes out of this unscathed so he can get the fuck out of AEW.
Would it surprise anyone, ANYONE AT ALL, if Meltzer ends up on the program for this crap?
The fact that AEW is BARELY making it pass WWE's NXT in ratings tells the whole story........NXT is a development league🤷🏾♂Go figure!
The morale of the story is that video games talks work for Omega like a truth serum and in order to hear bs from Meltzer all it takes is to call him out on beeing wrong or ask him uncomfortable question.
There’s only one bit of information I was waiting for you to drop. Dave Meltzer was one of, if not The Biggest, consultants to Tony Kahn.. During the assembly phase of AEW. This company is just as much Dave Meltzers vision, as it is Tony Kahn’s.
Why would Kenny start a random feud with Ospreay at the same time as a feud with Okada (with an actual story), who's the bigger star between the two?
Why would anyone consult meltzer on anything?
They def getting that tv renewal
Your content is way too good in every way for the wrestling niche. I need you to earn some real money here
I’m a new subscriber, and this is the first video I’m getting of yours, lmao. Ur content is hilarious 😂
I also did the same thing. I wish I found this channel earlier!!
Good luck fellas because this channel is for the elite
Same. But I'm wondering if he's an AEW hater/WWE mark or just a wrestling fan in general?
I thought Kenny was shooting but after listening to Cornette, I think he’s right, that it’s a work. Which is completely bizarre, as you mentioned. But I think Dave is usually wrong about WWE, not AEW, because his friends are at AEW and they do tell him inside info. I do think the star ratings are a factor in how Tony books but I think a lot of it is just his views on how wrestling should be. I don’t think the endless eliminator matches are about Dave, for example. And when people like Ospreay and Omega do a match, it’s not like Tony is telling them when to flip. If this is a work though, it’s definitely Tony pandering to the hardest core AEW fans.
Hot take: Meltzer has always sucked. Period. Dude's "reviews" of matches are just him listing all THE MOVEZ. Keep speaking the truth, Alfred.
Edit: You also forgot Meltzer's favorite part of Kenny and Will: they're white dudes wrestling in Japan.
My match VS Danielson was better than yours
Danielson as special guest referee
They should be feuding over who Jim Cornette likes more 😂
I believe Kenny is working in that clip... but it's crazy that Dave is so insecure he's basic like no Kenny likes me it's a work.
Dave is a paid pundit.
I appreciate you recognizing how big the Bloodline has been. Because of its success and because of its flaws (it had a *lot* in mid-late 2023), many people dismiss it or underestimate the effect its had on the industry.
But Roman, Jey, Sami, Solo, Cody, hell even KO are so much different than without the Bloodline, and ratings had such a high upswing even long before the Rock came back (i saw average yearly smackdown ratings, 2023 smackdown was hundreds of thousands above 2021 smackdown for example).
Hell, as much as i love Cody and think hes a huge star now since he and The Rock both got involved into the story, while the ratings drop is way overblown by many Roman marks, ratings *have* fallen a bit and been unable to reach the high that they had with the Bloodline; again, long before The Rock came back too.
The Bloodline is easily the largest draw in current wrestling, and is probably the most discussion WWE has gotten since the invasion in 2001 (excluding stuff like Benoit in 2007). Excluding The Rock, the bloodline members obviously arent anywhere as recognizable as Cena or Stone Cold, but they just had one of those big stories that makes wrestlers break into the stratosphere like that.
Over the last year Dave Hate has become more popular than the product he keeps trying to tell us is the best thing on TV.
The "long term booking" excuse comment u been looking for
Why would you ruin the mystery and discussion around it by admitting that it's an angle? Foolish nonsense.
have Osprey help Omega against the Bucks, they become tag champs then end up fueding. Smh seen it many times, but it's TK's booking at its finest. We all know it will happen. AEW is predictable
Dave "The Melt" Meltzer used to actually have some real insight into pro wrestling but his rating sytem has been a Joke for yeras. He is embarrassing for the buisness.
Your production is pretty good
such a satisfying video. imagine how impactful a match like ospreay vs bryan would've been if it had a story to back it up. tony khan needs to stop catering to meltzer and the chronically online twitter marks. he needs to maintain the good wrestling yes, but include some actual feuds to care about. this is why i NEVER watch their weekly shows anymore. there is no good stories going on, like ever. notice how punk vs mjf was a great feud with great matches? all around great story telling, in ring and out. that was AEW's peak and is called one of the best feuds of the modern era. keep doing things like this. stop booking 3 week stories to lead into a 5 star match that people will talk about for a day then forget about. roman vs cody wm 40 people still talk about. great in ring match with years of story leading into it. it'll be a match talked about forever. not trying to discredit their amazing in ring work, obviously some of the best wrestlers alive today, but in a year, people will have barely anything to say about a match like bryan vs ospreay.
Can we acknowledge, that this a plausible storyline in AEW? I’m not saying that it’s good. I’m saying, this would be something Tony would run with.
This video is MASTERCLASS 💯
I called it the moment Kenny put over Punk on stream... its all a work. That will draw zero new fans.
Sorry to get political here, but if you think a guy worth $50bil should be able to give all that to his kids when he dies, my counter argument is this: Tony Khan and Paris Hilton. Give them 2% and give 98% towards something like small business tax breaks for raising wages.
dave believes it was his challenge that created aew ...so he is hell bent on shoving aew on all wrestling fans , even when its complete s h i t , he will polish that shit and sell it ....dave is a reverse p r o s t i t u t e ...
McMahon v Austin was and is by far WWE’s greatest storyline and could the greatest in wrestling history. Shawn v Brett is up there too. Bloodline was cool but not the greatest. Steen v Elgenerico, The NWO, Dusty v Horseman all were great too. But Austin v McMahon is by far the best
Dave is washed. He isn't what he was. He is only around because wrestling companies play into his game.
Now I want a traffic based wrestling angle. BOOK IT HUNTER AND OR TONY!!
You're good at this dude.
Real good shit, pal.
Nothing like making content on man who doesn't need any more videos about him. He makes enough himself...
It's always a lame "Angle" But NEVER any damn Stories. NO long term booking or storylines. TK is poorly booking Indyriffic wrestlers for an internet fanbase consisting of geeks, virgins & neckbeards, who have never gone outside & touched grass in their lives. NOW TK is going to build a feud based on jackass Meltzer's "Star ratings"? OMG AEW IS WACK AF! 🤦🏻♂
Sleepy Dave Meltzer is one of the reasons why AEW is in the shape it's in right now. AEW, more specifically Tony Khan continuously bends his product to this man's will and approval just so he can give you those meaningless imaginary star matches. The sooner sleepy Dave retires the better pro wrestling will be. That doesn't just go for Sleepy Dave either. That goes for other so-called "wrestling journalists" too. I.e Sean Ross Sapp
Aew and WCW are the same
AEW is trying to cater to a small niche indy crowd instead of trying bring new fans into wrestling.
Dave has given more five star matches to Kenny Omega than Bret Hart.
I don't think anyone has to take Dave Meltzer's rating system that seriously. He has his own opinion. Are there a lot of 5-star matches outside of the WWE? Of course, the severely move set will limit the WWE's ability to put on 5-star matches, but overall, the wrestling is better in Japan. Bret Hart should've received more 5-star ratings for his matches, but I don't think he put on more than Kenny Omega and Bret Hart is in my top 5 favorite wrestlers of all-time. Best technical wrestler ever IMO and makes everyone he wrestles better than they are.
Lol y'all know it could be one liner in a promo how one is the better wrestler and has put on more 5-star matches? It doesn't have to be a feud defining angle.
The fact that Kurt Angle has NO five star matches, shows just how biased Dave Meltzer has always been!
This one is not hard, Dave cappin'
He hit us with not one but two Mario references right at the end. NICE.
Dave Meltzer is the final boss of dumb internet wrestling marks.
Wouldnt a star rating feud involve them both thinking the stat ratings mean something?
It doesnt work if you go...
"Hey I've got more 5 star matches than you"
"I don't care"
Excellent video
Now we just need a "They are fighting over star ratings" sign
i remember when Katsuyori Shibata got injured against Okada when he hit that headbutt, bro said on his podcast that they were going for a feud or a angle to make it seem like shibata was injured
Not the golden lovers pic
The billionaire is out of touch? I'm in shock.
I said if the guys like bishoff,Russo, Cornette, and a lot of ex wrestler have the same idea of AEW, man we are a big problem.