OH MAN this one’s long due and I’m surprised very few warplane RUclipsrs talked about the Kikka. This, among other things, was further proof that Japanese aviation knowledge was on par with Western ones. Considering their status in 1943-44, knowing how to replicate the complex turbine internals and their metallurgy properties WITH ONLY USING PICTURES OF THE BMW 003 they did a FANTASTIC job. While the very short lifespan of the first jet engines would be a pain and losing the most important day for them, I would imagine this would be a Tuesday morning to the Japanese scientists instead with how they utilized it. A disposable light interceptor packing some heat with it and taking out bombers in a last ditch attempt is very on-brand for late war Japan.
@@onenote6619 Prototype not having guns is perfectly normal thing to see. On top of that, Kikka was not intendent from start to be interceptor (literarly in video).
Imagine calling blueprints/technical drawings and detailed engineering data "jUsT piKsHurz". LOL this is the weebiest comment I've seen on yoo toob to date
Imagine calling blueprints/technical drawings and detailed engineering data "jUsT piKsHurz". LOL this is the weebiest comment I've seen on yoo toob to date
The reason to power a Kamikaze with jet engines is because it would make it less likely to be intercepted by enemy fighter cover and more likely to strike its target. Resources expended on weapons that can complete the mission are often more productive than resources expended on weapons that are unlikely to complete the mission. It was not stupid. (Especially when the engine didn't last more than one flight between overhauls anyway.)
The Japanese me 163 rocket fighter copys are also interesting i hope you can cover those as well sometime theh even made some improvements from what ive seen with several models
Very nice! The Kikka test pilot, IJN Lieutenant Susumu Takaoka, would also pilot Japan's first post-war jet, the Fuji T-1 Hatsutaka 初鷹 (Young Falcon) a decade later.
Just to clarify its almost certain the gloster meteor was first into operational service and it almost certainly achieved the first kills (the ME262 first kill couldn’t have happened as no mosquitos were lost that day or any aircraft in that area) Also the ME262 was great in a straight line but crap are turning, landing, taking off and pretty much anything rlse
The Jumo 004 engine had total life of 25 hrs, which means they went to scrap not rebuild after 25 hrs. So Japan wasn't that far off. This is why the allies (Most notably Frank Whittle) did't try to build axial flow engines.
@@ivanconnolly7332 Lack of high temperature alloys would limit the lifespan of a centrifugal flow engine in much the same way as an axial flow engine. That is because the term centrifugal or axial describes the compressor section of the engine. Both types of engine use an axial flow turbine to extract power to drive the compressor section. The turbine is the section subjected to the very high temperature exhaust gases.
Slow acceleration of the engine itself does not require a longer runway. The engine is run up to full RPM prior to brake release. The longer runway is required because early jets had lower thrust compared to the trust provided by propellers at low speed.
I have a deep hate for the Messerschmit Me 262. It is viewed as this world pioneering, air dominating and overall supreme aircraft that could have changed the war. Just looking at the Gloster Meteor and you have a jet fighter that did everything the Me 262 wished it could, being actually operational days after the Me 262. It had more than enough speed and climbing performance to pick and choose its battles, however it also had the actual capability of turning in an engagement, which gives it far more versatility in actual combat. It also had and armament strong enough to tear any and all targets piece from piece, but they were easier to aim, had far more velocity and range, took less weight, and were very reliable. The Me 262 had to use four heavy 30mm cannons which were hard to use against any fighter, only good against big slow bombers. Another reasurring thing is the engines were less infamous for either just stopping for no aparent reason, catching fire, nor straight up exploding, even when on the ground. The reason for the allies not using or pushing any of their jet-powered fighters into combat, is because planes like the late P-51D and P-47D were more than capable of taking down and defending from the Me 262 themselves. The statistics also don't really back it up much, for a maximum of 540 planes of all types shot down, at lesat 230 were lost to enemy fighters. Since only around 500 were produced, but only 230 shot down, you can guess what happend to the majority of the other fighters. That is right, they were lost to their own poor production, rushed design, and all round bad chrarcteristics for a frontline defender. Some units had as low as 15% readiness rate for teh Me 262, which again is not poitive for å responsive and defensive fighter. All this tells me that the only thing the Me 262 could do well was go fast in a straight line, and for that one positive characteristic it sacreficed too much to be an actual good fighter.
THANK YOU SIR! Thank you for saying it. Now we await the deluge of Wereboos coming to tell us you're wrong and that N@zi technology was the greatest ever anywhere.
mean, look at how they managed to build this thing. Without the supplies of Western allies, in a country bombed to oblivion, and with a considerably low number of well-trained personnel on the ground as well as in the air. And if you look further, there were already planned changes for armaments like the revolver cannons from Mauser, which were later adapted by the allies, from which the ADEN cannons were developed, or the new engines that were in development for the aircraft, along with other planned changes in aerodynamics. I think in some points it was overhyped, but it made substantial achievements in the history of aviation. The use of axial flow jets like the jumo 004 was the design that preveiled other the radialflow jets like the RR Nene and similiar desings.
Thank you for doing this video, the history of German jet history is well-known, but very little is known of what the Japanese were doing with the jet engine.
• The Heinkel He 178 was the first jet-powered aircraft to fly, with its maiden flight on August 27, 1939. However, it never went beyond the prototype stage. • The Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first jet fighter to be used in combat. Its first combat mission occurred on July 25, 1944, when it intercepted an Allied reconnaissance aircraft. • The Gloster E.28/39 (also known as the Gloster Whittle) was the first British jet-powered aircraft, making its first flight on May 15, 1941. It served as a prototype for future developments. • The Gloster Meteor was the first Allied jet fighter to see combat, with its first operational mission on July 27, 1944. It was initially deployed to intercept German V1 flying bombs. For all the bri‘ish geezers out there
Technically the Gloster Meteor was the first to be put into operational service. But they only ever intercepted V-1 flying bombs over England, and did some light ground attack at the very end of the war. They never engaged german aircraft in the air, and were actually prohibited from flying over German territory for most of the war due to fears of the plane falling into enemy hands. The 262 was the first jet to fight other aircraft in the air so it often gets the title for being the first jet fighter.
Allied navies never did stop Japanese and German submarines making it to France or Singapore. Before the war ended there was a squadron of U-Boats stationed in Indonesia. As unbelievable as that seems
There is no meaningful difference in "leaping" to a jet engine from an inline piston engine or a radial piston engine. A turbojet engine had more in common with a turbosupercharger than a piston engine.
It is pretty amazing the Japanese were able to build a version of the BMW 003 Just from images and basic measurements from a manual. Especially with the pressure they were under the last 2 years of the war. The 003 also ended up being the basis for the French SNECMA Atar and Soviet post war engines for the Mig 19 and 21.
absolute bullshit.. the AM-5/RD-09 (Mig-19) weren't based on any german engine... as so as R11 engine of early Mig-21... better to study more and write shit less...
The axial-flow turbojets were very poor until the designs matured in the mid-1950s. Around 70% of the post-WW2 jet fighters were powered by British centrifugal-flow designs which were safer, more reliable and offered greater power.
@300guy The SNECMA Atar was actually based on the BMW 018 not the 003. Similar but different. Your comment is factually very incorrect, try using Google more.
If both engines put out 1000lbf and its take off speed was 150 mph (just a guess), both engines would be putting out around 800 horsepower combined at that speed (400 horsepower per engine). At its top speed, both engines would be putting out a combined 2300 horsepower, or 1150 per engine. So it's a little unsurprising that its take off run was very long. Also, that's not a lot of power for that high speed. While it was fast I'm guessing it would have had problems in other areas, like climbing, turning, or accelerating.
Dude was Samurai. He shot himself out of a torpedo tube, and upon surfacing, did a running kick on top of a white-capped swell and flew all the way back to Japan. (we've seen similar in the movies of the past)
Work doesn't begin in honest. It begins in earnest. Plus, why do you make a video about a ripoff of the 262 before you make one about the original. How dare you! You stole my dreams. Greetings from Germany, in case you couldn't guess it. Love your stuff btw. Keep going, son!
You forget that the Germans used published jet engine data from the British engineer AA Griffiths who built the first axial flow turbojet engine in 1923. The difference was the Germans got the funding in 1937 the British not until 1940. But the British ended up going with the centrifugal-flow turbojet which was safer and offered much more power. These engines were used in British Meteor, Vampire and Venon, US P-80, Grumman Panther and Cougar, Soviet MiG-15 and 17 etc.
@@WALTERBROADDUS No, Griffiths was building experimental axial flow jet engines from 1923, he wrote his papers in 1928. Which von Ohaine used. Griffith sold his final jjet engine to Vickers, who built is as the Metrovick F2 in 1940
This is absolute drivel. The Kikka weighed slightly more than half as much as an Me262 and had slightly more than half the thrust in some very primitive engines. It was never intended to be a fighter and had no guns in the basic design. It was intended to be an attack aircraft, carrying a moderately-sized bomb. It had folding wings so that it could attack from cave-based hangars and would be equipped with booster rockets to make that work. The first flight of the prototype was successful. The second flight - with rocket boost - resulted in a crash. And that was the end of the project. Whoever slapped together this video could not be bothered to do even basic research.
Watch the visdeo by Lord Hardtrasher about the ME 262 and you will find out the 262 was NOT the 1st operational jet in service...yes Germany had it before britian had the Meteor but according to his video the Meteoor entered actual OPERATIONAL SERVICE before the 262 did.
If it were relevant, maybe. But this aircraft was much smaller than the 262, had less thrust and was never designed to carry guns. Whoever made this video was not paying attention.
Curious allies , the Japanese machine gunned a group of German missionaries , mostly women on the deck of one of their submarines . . in their Asia for Asians only drive
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
OH MAN this one’s long due and I’m surprised very few warplane RUclipsrs talked about the Kikka. This, among other things, was further proof that Japanese aviation knowledge was on par with Western ones. Considering their status in 1943-44, knowing how to replicate the complex turbine internals and their metallurgy properties WITH ONLY USING PICTURES OF THE BMW 003 they did a FANTASTIC job.
While the very short lifespan of the first jet engines would be a pain and losing the most important day for them, I would imagine this would be a Tuesday morning to the Japanese scientists instead with how they utilized it. A disposable light interceptor packing some heat with it and taking out bombers in a last ditch attempt is very on-brand for late war Japan.
An interceptor with no guns. Try again.
@@onenote6619 Prototype not having guns is perfectly normal thing to see. On top of that, Kikka was not intendent from start to be interceptor (literarly in video).
Imagine calling blueprints/technical drawings and detailed engineering data "jUsT piKsHurz". LOL this is the weebiest comment I've seen on yoo toob to date
Imagine calling blueprints/technical drawings and detailed engineering data "jUsT piKsHurz". LOL this is the weebiest comment I've seen on yoo toob to date
The reason to power a Kamikaze with jet engines is because it would make it less likely to be intercepted by enemy fighter cover and more likely to strike its target. Resources expended on weapons that can complete the mission are often more productive than resources expended on weapons that are unlikely to complete the mission. It was not stupid. (Especially when the engine didn't last more than one flight between overhauls anyway.)
The Japanese me 163 rocket fighter copys are also interesting i hope you can cover those as well sometime theh even made some improvements from what ive seen with several models
Very nice! The Kikka test pilot, IJN Lieutenant Susumu Takaoka, would also pilot Japan's first post-war jet, the Fuji T-1 Hatsutaka 初鷹 (Young Falcon) a decade later.
I really enjoy your presentations. A great mix of info and just the right amount of humour.
Just to clarify its almost certain the gloster meteor was first into operational service and it almost certainly achieved the first kills (the ME262 first kill couldn’t have happened as no mosquitos were lost that day or any aircraft in that area)
Also the ME262 was great in a straight line but crap are turning, landing, taking off and pretty much anything rlse
The Kika is cool and all, but it has nothing on that paper airplane I made in 8th grade. This is because the paper airplane actually flew
The first prototype flew. And crashed on the second flight.
And Cody's 8th grade paper airplane flew, crashed, and flew again probably a dozen times over. Kikka's got nothing on it
My dad won the world paper airplane competition so there you go, amateur paper aircraft builder.😛
@@brealistic3542Is he the guy on the 60 Minutes story?
But did it carry 50 cals?
Holy shit that 262 with a Jumo 210 looks cursed as hell
The Jumo 004 engine had total life of 25 hrs, which means they went to scrap not rebuild after 25 hrs. So Japan wasn't that far off. This is why the allies (Most notably Frank Whittle) did't try to build axial flow engines.
Was a scarcity of chromium not a major cause of accelerated wear on on the Jumo 004.
Not a serious limitation when fighters defending German airspace had a combat lifespan of about 25 hours.
@@ivanconnolly7332 Lack of high temperature alloys would limit the lifespan of a centrifugal flow engine in much the same way as an axial flow engine. That is because the term centrifugal or axial describes the compressor section of the engine. Both types of engine use an axial flow turbine to extract power to drive the compressor section. The turbine is the section subjected to the very high temperature exhaust gases.
All worn out Jumos were rebuilt not scrapped during war. The factory for Jumo 004 rebuils was located in Zittau at ZIT works.
Slow acceleration of the engine itself does not require a longer runway. The engine is run up to full RPM prior to brake release. The longer runway is required because early jets had lower thrust compared to the trust provided by propellers at low speed.
I have a deep hate for the Messerschmit Me 262. It is viewed as this world pioneering, air dominating and overall supreme aircraft that could have changed the war. Just looking at the Gloster Meteor and you have a jet fighter that did everything the Me 262 wished it could, being actually operational days after the Me 262. It had more than enough speed and climbing performance to pick and choose its battles, however it also had the actual capability of turning in an engagement, which gives it far more versatility in actual combat. It also had and armament strong enough to tear any and all targets piece from piece, but they were easier to aim, had far more velocity and range, took less weight, and were very reliable. The Me 262 had to use four heavy 30mm cannons which were hard to use against any fighter, only good against big slow bombers. Another reasurring thing is the engines were less infamous for either just stopping for no aparent reason, catching fire, nor straight up exploding, even when on the ground. The reason for the allies not using or pushing any of their jet-powered fighters into combat, is because planes like the late P-51D and P-47D were more than capable of taking down and defending from the Me 262 themselves. The statistics also don't really back it up much, for a maximum of 540 planes of all types shot down, at lesat 230 were lost to enemy fighters. Since only around 500 were produced, but only 230 shot down, you can guess what happend to the majority of the other fighters. That is right, they were lost to their own poor production, rushed design, and all round bad chrarcteristics for a frontline defender. Some units had as low as 15% readiness rate for teh Me 262, which again is not poitive for å responsive and defensive fighter. All this tells me that the only thing the Me 262 could do well was go fast in a straight line, and for that one positive characteristic it sacreficed too much to be an actual good fighter.
THANK YOU SIR! Thank you for saying it. Now we await the deluge of Wereboos coming to tell us you're wrong and that N@zi technology was the greatest ever anywhere.
When i explain to European people the philosophy of American street drag racing with muscle cars/ pony cars, i always get that same speech too..... 😂
How many Meteors saw combat?
Weird hill to die on dude, you are acting like a British person.
@@ATBatmanMALS31😂😂😂😂
mean, look at how they managed to build this thing. Without the supplies of Western allies, in a country bombed to oblivion, and with a considerably low number of well-trained personnel on the ground as well as in the air. And if you look further, there were already planned changes for armaments like the revolver cannons from Mauser, which were later adapted by the allies, from which the ADEN cannons were developed, or the new engines that were in development for the aircraft, along with other planned changes in aerodynamics. I think in some points it was overhyped, but it made substantial achievements in the history of aviation.
The use of axial flow jets like the jumo 004 was the design that preveiled other the radialflow jets like the RR Nene and similiar desings.
Thank you for doing this video, the history of German jet history is well-known, but very little is known of what the Japanese were doing with the jet engine.
The Gloster Meteor was the first Operational combat jet aircraft.
Says only you.
Came looking for comments and there were none yet lol
Allied evaluation of captured aircraft detetmined that the fit and finish of Japanese planes was far better than German.
This is because the Germans cannot build a good vehicle
This aircraft? Or in general? Because it flew twice and crashed on the second flight.
because the german ones were slave labour products
Cool as always! Love your work!
Btw, the term is, "began in earnest", not, "began in honest".
• The Heinkel He 178 was the first jet-powered aircraft to fly, with its maiden flight on August 27, 1939. However, it never went beyond the prototype stage.
• The Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first jet fighter to be used in combat. Its first combat mission occurred on July 25, 1944, when it intercepted an Allied reconnaissance aircraft.
• The Gloster E.28/39 (also known as the Gloster Whittle) was the first British jet-powered aircraft, making its first flight on May 15, 1941. It served as a prototype for future developments.
• The Gloster Meteor was the first Allied jet fighter to see combat, with its first operational mission on July 27, 1944. It was initially deployed to intercept German V1 flying bombs.
For all the bri‘ish geezers out there
That pic of Herman, Bugger was meme then and he still is. 😄
Herman Goering wasn’t know for good decisions in WW2
😂 who's the cross eyed officer? I hoped you noticed him to and boy, you did not dissapoint!
IIRC the Gloster Meteor was both in squadron service and combat before the Me 262. The combat being against V1 flying bombs
recently ive seeing people saying that the 262 is not actually the first operational jet, could ya make an video explaining this?
They would be wrong.
Technically the Gloster Meteor was the first to be put into operational service. But they only ever intercepted V-1 flying bombs over England, and did some light ground attack at the very end of the war. They never engaged german aircraft in the air, and were actually prohibited from flying over German territory for most of the war due to fears of the plane falling into enemy hands.
The 262 was the first jet to fight other aircraft in the air so it often gets the title for being the first jet fighter.
Allied navies never did stop Japanese and German submarines making it to France or Singapore. Before the war ended there was a squadron of U-Boats stationed in Indonesia. As unbelievable as that seems
Captain Eric Winkle Brown gave the 262 a top speed of 570 mph.
That was without ammunition and running on allied fuel not the swill the Luffwaffa was forced to use
@@jamesricker3997 Thanks .
@@jamesricker3997 turbine engines run with any shit no need for high octane allied fuels
There is no meaningful difference in "leaping" to a jet engine from an inline piston engine or a radial piston engine. A turbojet engine had more in common with a turbosupercharger than a piston engine.
It is pretty amazing the Japanese were able to build a version of the BMW 003 Just from images and basic measurements from a manual. Especially with the pressure they were under the last 2 years of the war.
The 003 also ended up being the basis for the French SNECMA Atar and Soviet post war engines for the Mig 19 and 21.
absolute bullshit.. the AM-5/RD-09 (Mig-19) weren't based on any german engine... as so as R11 engine of early Mig-21... better to study more and write shit less...
please share whatever crack you are smoking, neither rd-9 or r11 were developed from 003 lmao
The axial-flow turbojets were very poor until the designs matured in the mid-1950s. Around 70% of the post-WW2 jet fighters were powered by British centrifugal-flow designs which were safer, more reliable and offered greater power.
@300guy. No the AM5 was not based on any pre-existing German or British designs. It was an early Soviet turbojet engine.
@300guy The SNECMA Atar was actually based on the BMW 018 not the 003. Similar but different. Your comment is factually very incorrect, try using Google more.
Shades of the Twilight Zone! At 2:25, the man looking over the shoulder of Göring is proof that Jay Leno is a time traveler.
If both engines put out 1000lbf and its take off speed was 150 mph (just a guess), both engines would be putting out around 800 horsepower combined at that speed (400 horsepower per engine). At its top speed, both engines would be putting out a combined 2300 horsepower, or 1150 per engine. So it's a little unsurprising that its take off run was very long. Also, that's not a lot of power for that high speed. While it was fast I'm guessing it would have had problems in other areas, like climbing, turning, or accelerating.
2:26 - Behind Herman that smugly smiling fellow might be Doug Demuro’s distant relative.
So where does the Meteor fit in the jet timeline?
Being developed simultaneously.
The Gloster Meteor had Almost exactly the same timeline as the ME262.
The Germans gave them the jet engines and the design diagrams. This is more of a licensed copy.
Dude was Samurai. He shot himself out of a torpedo tube, and upon surfacing, did a running kick on top of a white-capped swell and flew all the way back to Japan. (we've seen similar in the movies of the past)
Just in time for lunch, and soon a plane im gonna unlock in war thunder. 🤣 perfect!
A Mini Me-262, huh?
No.
Its a cool plane, but lets be honest.
Its the "Me 262 at home"...
The first wish version of anything.
Work doesn't begin in honest. It begins in earnest. Plus, why do you make a video about a ripoff of the 262 before you make one about the original. How dare you! You stole my dreams. Greetings from Germany, in case you couldn't guess it. Love your stuff btw. Keep going, son!
Oh hell yeah :D
Operation No-Go. . .
You forget that the Germans used published jet engine data from the British engineer AA Griffiths who built the first axial flow turbojet engine in 1923. The difference was the Germans got the funding in 1937 the British not until 1940. But the British ended up going with the centrifugal-flow turbojet which was safer and offered much more power. These engines were used in British Meteor, Vampire and Venon, US P-80, Grumman Panther and Cougar, Soviet MiG-15 and 17 etc.
Griffith is given no such credit.
Bullshit, I say....!!
@@WALTERBROADDUS Actually Hans Von Ohaine who designed the Jumo 004, thanked Griffith for his papers on axial-flow engines.
@@billballbuster7186 Very different than your original claim.
@@WALTERBROADDUS No, Griffiths was building experimental axial flow jet engines from 1923, he wrote his papers in 1928. Which von Ohaine used.
Griffith sold his final jjet engine to Vickers, who built is as the Metrovick F2 in 1940
Technically… the Meteor was “combat-ready” first, but that fact is also technically irrelevant. 😆
Bro they saw combat. There is a meteor that downed a V2
@@codymoon7552 Top speed of 410 mph takes the fizz out of being first.
This is absolute drivel. The Kikka weighed slightly more than half as much as an Me262 and had slightly more than half the thrust in some very primitive engines. It was never intended to be a fighter and had no guns in the basic design. It was intended to be an attack aircraft, carrying a moderately-sized bomb. It had folding wings so that it could attack from cave-based hangars and would be equipped with booster rockets to make that work.
The first flight of the prototype was successful. The second flight - with rocket boost - resulted in a crash. And that was the end of the project.
Whoever slapped together this video could not be bothered to do even basic research.
Watch the visdeo by Lord Hardtrasher about the ME 262 and you will find out the 262 was NOT the 1st operational jet in service...yes Germany had it before britian had the Meteor but according to his video the Meteoor entered actual OPERATIONAL SERVICE before the 262 did.
Not to mention that the English were developing/test flying a jet since the late 30s
@@codymoon7552 true as well
If it were relevant, maybe. But this aircraft was much smaller than the 262, had less thrust and was never designed to carry guns. Whoever made this video was not paying attention.
@@onenote6619 bro did actual research. I am gonna trust him more than some weirdo in a yt comment
Great video😃 but why mix in the P 51-D when it was barely there?
SNAFU
Curious allies , the Japanese machine gunned a group of German missionaries , mostly women on the deck of one of their submarines . . in their Asia for Asians only drive
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