How DC BROKE Red Hood | WASTED POTENTIAL
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2023
- #redhood #batman
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Jason Peter Todd is a character appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. First appearing in Batman # 357 in March 1983, he was created to succeed Dick Grayson as Robin, Batman's partner and sidekick. Initially sharing a similar origin to Grayson, his character's origin was rewritten after the Crisis on Infinite Earths event. Subsequent portrayals commonly depict Todd as an orphaned street delinquent with a troubled past and a violent demeanor, whom Batman attempts to reform and mentor.Following Max Allan Collins revamping Todd's origin in Batman # 408-411, the character was written by Jim Starlin, who had him become increasingly aggressive and reckless. This led to DC Comics holding a telephone poll in 1988's "A Death in the Family" storyline to determine whether or not the character would die at the Joker's hands. The poll ended with a narrow majority of votes in favor of killing Todd, resulting in his death. Subsequent stories dealt with Batman's guilt over failing to save him. The character was resurrected in 2005's "Under the Hood" story arc, which saw him becoming a murderous antihero known as the Red Hood. Subsequent stories have shown Todd's on-and-off attempts to redeem himself and rebuild his relationship with Batman, with Red Hood eventually being accepted as a full member of the Batman family.Todd as Robin and Red Hood has made several appearances in other forms of media outside of comics, including television series, films, and video games.
Batman: Under the Red Hood is a 2010 American animated superhero action thriller direct-to-video film produced by Warner Bros. Animation and released by Warner Home Video. It is the eighth film of the DC Universe Animated Original Movies. The writer, Judd Winick, also wrote the "Under the Hood" run in the monthly Batman comic the film is based on. The film was released on July 27, 2010, and received highly positive reviews from critics, who praised its plot, animation, and focus on storytelling. It is generally considered to be one of the best in the DC Universe Animated Original Movies line. The film was also a commercial success, grossing over $12 million in home video sales.The two-disc special edition and Blu-ray also includes an animated short featuring Jonah Hex. An interactive short spiritual sequel/film adaptation, Batman: Death in the Family, was released on October 13, 2020, ten years after Red Hood.
Batman investigates the facility and discovers a large militia force being dispatched to occupy Gotham, led by the mysterious "Arkham Knight". Batman locates Scarecrow, who has transformed the entire building into a toxin bomb. Scarecrow reveals that he has kidnapped Oracle before escaping. Exposing himself to the toxin, Batman inhibits the bomb's blast radius before he is confronted by the Joker.The Arkham Knight activates the Cloudburst, flooding the city with fear toxin. Batman destroys the tank carrying the Cloudburst and convinces Ivy to empower an ancient tree that can neutralize the toxin; she succeeds and saves Gotham, but the exertion kills her, while Batman's exposure to the toxin strengthens Joker's control over him. Batman pursues the Arkham Knight to a construction site to rescue Gordon. The Knight reveals himself as Jason Todd, the previous Robin, who was tortured and seemingly murdered by the Joker, and has since been left traumatized. Todd blames Batman for abandoning him, and escapes after refusing Batman's offer to help him recover. To save Robin and Gordon, Batman surrenders to Scarecrow and is taken to the ruins of Arkham Asylum. Scarecrow unmasks Batman as Bruce Wayne to the world on television, before repeatedly injecting Batman with the fear toxin to break him before the public. Batman and the Joker battle for control inside Batman's mind; Joker attempts to weaken Batman by recounting the people who have suffered and died because of Batman's crusade, but Batman triumphs and locks the pleading Joker away in his mind forever to be forgotten-the Joker's only fear. Todd saves Batman, who subdues Scarecrow with his own fear toxin.After Batman ensures that Gotham is safe, Gordon dispatches the police to reclaim the streets, and Batman activates the "Knightfall Protocol" to protect his loved ones. Surrounded by reporters, Batman returns home to Wayne Manor where he is greeted by Alfred. As the pair enter the manor, it explodes, seemingly killing them both. Sometime later, Gordon, now Mayor of Gotham, prepares to attend Oracle and Robin's wedding. Elsewhere, two muggers attack a family in an alley but are confronted by a nightmarish figure resembling Batman 
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Where would you have rather seen Jason go after Under the Red Hood? Hero? Anti-Hero? Villain? Batfamily member or free agent?
Anti hero personally who is a bat family member
@@ynorb9573 Why would they trust a murderer who fights them constantly?
@@CRISIS_COMICS that's a fair point
Anti hero on verge of being full blown villain. He would kill criminals but he would also clash with Batfamily and in some instances he would be ready to even kill them. He wouldn´t want to kill them but he would be ready to do it in extreme situation.
Anti villain hope everyone has a sensational day
Hot take: I don’t prefer Red Hood as a bat family member, I think he should be more lone wolf, or solo anti-hero, and less forgiving, and more guilt driven by his own actions, realizing it led him to his own suffering.
I agree with the not being part of the Batfamily but I actually do like with the Outlaws, in my opinion it's a missed opportunity to have Lethal Justice League.
I feel the same but for Nightwing
Actually more so In the case of nightwing since the whole concept of nightwing is being his own hero and getting out of Batman’s shadow, but being a batfam member and a protector of Gotham defeats the whole purpose of being nightwing
@@zentik7494I agree. At this point in his story, Nightwing should be more like flash. He's had decades to make a city his own, but he keeps staying under batman's shadow
The bat family is so overpopulated. Jason and Huntress should be shunned by Bruce. Hell, Bruce stopped himself from being romantic with Catwoman for years because she stole stuff. Why the hell would he let murderers live under his roof? It just doesn't make sense.
I disagree he should be still apart of the batfamily but I see Titans more like his family@@zentik7494
Jason is my favorite DC character, and I'm glad some people still respect him
Why is he your favorite?
@CRISIS_COMICS he has such an emotional story, and such an unfair life, when I first heard* his speech in UTRH talking about how he forgives batman, but he still resents him for not killing Joker is when I realized he's my favorite.
*same effect when I read the comic version, but not as strong as Jensen Ackles
@@KillerMoth_Stumpy Have you read Red Hood comics since watching that movie? The movie's good, but Jason hasn't really progressed since then; compared to other Batfam characters who have emotional stories and arcs which progress their motives. I think there's way more depth in Nightwing, Batgirl, or Tim Drake comics as opposed to one speech in UtRH.
@@CRISIS_COMICSmy question
@@CRISIS_COMICShe’s still a good character, he’s basically DC’s punisher
They should have written Red Hood as a saner and more grounded version of The Punisher. Him and Nightwing should've had a rivalry. A rivalry similar to Daredevil and The Punisher, just without as much animosity.
That would've been great.
That would've been really fun to read.
The Red Hood should not be "The Batman Who Kills" he should be the hero who is willing to do what it takes to stop mass murdering psychopaths, he should be his own man who still loves the Bat Family as a family, but also accepts Batman's views as the illogical inspiration of his childhood trauma that it is.
EXACTLY
I've always thought it would be nice for him to return to the Batfamily, but what you said about that making him lose his uniqueness is very true. We definitely don't want him to just be a red Nightwing with anger issues. They should probably commit to the anti-hero status instead of trying to bounce him around all the time. Thank God I'm more of a Nightwing guy and don't have to deal with all this 😂. Good luck, Red Hood stans. Wish you the best.
Issue is that an "anti-hero" in the traditional comic sense, would be incompatible narratively with Batman's method of crime fighting. Red Hood would have to somehow stop being a Batman character.
@@CRISIS_COMICSjust send him to a new DC city in the southwest. Literally make him Clint Eastwood
@@indigo_mane They could do that. Thing is, people want him to interact with the Bat-Family beyond trading blows and threatening to kill each other. I, for one, was interested when Gotham Knights tried to pursue that concept. But for some reason, they have trouble being consistent about it.
@@CRISIS_COMICS, he won't. I mean, Harley Quinn is associated with them, and she has committed countless atrocities during her time as Joker's girlfriend. Plus, Batman does team up with murderers like Riddler or occasional killers like Aquaman when it suits him, so why on earth would Jason, who is similar in vain to the likes of Azrael and Ghostmaker, be excluded just cause he's a murderer? Batman is a hypocrite, so why make the case that he wouldn't associate with him when we know he has double standards for those he loves?
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked but at which point does he just become edgy nightwing if his constant proximity to the bat family and team books doesn’t allow him to kill? I think you’d have to bring him back to gotham every once and a while for an event but I think he’s more interesting if you separate him and let him be more villainous or at least morally grey
I think DC intended Red Hood to be a full-blown villain, albeit a tragic one. But then he got too popular. This left DC in a quandary. They didn't want to make a killer a hero. But they couldn't make him a villain again, due to his popularity with the fans. I think a solution would have been to make him a brutal and terrifying anti-hero. One that doesn't kill (except maybe on one or two very special occasions), but one who hurts, scars, brutalizes, tortures, injures, cripples, and on some occasions, even maims villains. His goal would be (as Batman's was in the beginning) to keep criminals and villains in a perpetual state of fear, pain, and suffering. Red Hood could then make the argument that he was taking the Batman legacy back to its roots.
Listen. Red Hood would've been amazing as an long standing villain in the Batman mythos. There's no other direction you can take Jason Todd as a character at this point.
@@rustyshackelford4224 I can come up with two big reasons for Todd being in narrative limbo. One: DC wants to be a sort of "anti-batman" so they keep Jason Todd around for the sole purpose of artificiality bringing personal tension and juxtaposition of the two. Two: HOWEVER, they can't all the way to really make him an "anti-batman" because it will kill DC's priorities of making Batman into a "family-friendly" character.
You see ever since the Silver Age, DC has always first and foremost marketed Batman for children. Having someone from Batman's cast remotely being a full-on Punisher would cause another Batman Returns-style PR nightmare, parents would boycott any Batman merch including toys. Batman comics aren't the money maker, toys are. Fuck, this is why I fucking hate superheroes, they are the cancer of comics.
@zzamorano1717 This is why I hate franchises being corperate. So why do you hate the Superhero genre?
What you describe is what Batman does do, minus any killing. He does it off-screen, though, and it isn't given much detail or attention. But yeah, that's how he maintains fear. The problem is he never does it to the villains.
@@midgetydeath Red Hood would do it to the villains. And he would make sure that every detail of their suffering is known to the public.
It’s def weird that DC has been wishy-washy with Jason’s character. I thought since New 52 that they were trying to make him the Helena Bertinelli of the modern era. Both have anger issues, struggling not to kill, and have a tenuous relationship with Batman. But at least Huntress was consistent. Jason keeps flip flopping every couple years.
I've heard that PC Helena was just a better Jason.
@@CRISIS_COMICSwhy would you compare him to Loki and not Winter soldier.
Jason's character is at his best when he is a villain/antihero like punisher because jason at his core reflects hypocrisy of batmans brand of justice and also reflects the darker side of vigilantism.
I wholeheartedly agree. "I'll be a better Batman than you!"
This was truly eye-opening. Even after reading most of these comics, I never fully realized how much DC keeps screwing with the characterization of poor Jason here. I feel like either route could work for him if they had comitted to it and fleshed it out.
Why do companies do that, reduced a character’s arc and also just repeats it over and over and over again! DC needs better comic book writers
@@jamestolbert1856 I can come up with two big reasons. One: DC wants to be a sort of "anti-batman" so they keep Jason Todd around for the sole purpose of artificiality bringing personal tension and juxtaposition of the two. Two: HOWEVER, they can't all the way to really make him an "anti-batman" because it will kill DC's priorities of making Batman into a "family-friendly" character.
You see ever since the Silver Age, DC has always first and foremost marketed Batman for children. Having someone from Batman's cast remotely being a full-on Punisher would cause another Batman Returns-style PR nightmare, parents would boycott any Batman merch including toys. Batman comics aren't the money maker, toys are. Fuck, this is why I fucking hate superheroes, they are the cancer of comics.
@@jamestolbert1856 a big problem with comic book companies is the main line timeline, stuff like earth 616 in marvel or earth 1 in DC, these are the "main canon" stories that set the precedent/common stories that else world universes use to deviate from (think Jasons death and how there are other comics/universes that changed how batman reacted to it like the Dark knight returns). But new writers are constantly being brought on or let go all the while they are trying to make their own mark on the characters/setting, it creates a big problem with previous stories because the new writers either use previous material for a new story in a different way or undo the writing, such as red hoods flip flopping as shown in the video. Because only else world/ alternate universe stories are allowed to end many stories/characters keep getting changed from previous stories as they just keep continuing with new people. Gerry Duggan, who wrote Despicable Deadpool, tried to end his run of the character more or less anticipating new writers and changes by wiping his mind at the end hoping to use it as a new starting point for future writer. Didnt really work though.
As to why Jason isn’t in Arkham, Judd Winick actually did an arc in Batman and Robin where he was locked up in Arkham…and he murdered 80 people while in there lol
IIRC he killed people in Blackgate which is why they put him back in Arkham
I hope that if and when James Gunn adapts Jason, he doesn't feel shackled by the comics and tries to truly make Jason have an actual character arc.
American comics suffer from the fact they can't have a real story with a start middle and end, they are always running in circles. The fact joker is alive is proof of it, just because it sells. To me Jason should remain an antihero, maybe having a relationship with his family but they never truly accept him, being the black sheep, maybe he gets a a deal with Amanda and a license to kill so Bruce leaves him do his thing but with criticism, him being a crime boss was a great idea, controlling crime from the inside. They could try many things with different stories that have an end, no need to stretch the same story again and again.
American comic books are constantly rebooting, LOL!
I would've loved Jason as an anti-hero, killing those he seems irredeemable. I think he brings an important view point to Gotham. Being an harbinger of crossed lines to push batman to get more creative with his solutions for villains.
I think the reason why character development sucks for members of the Bat-Family because they try to make every member of the Bat-Family like Batman, the only members of the Bat-Family that shouldn’t kill are Batman, Nightwing, Barbara Gordon and Tim Drake, while the ones that should kill are Jason Todd and Damian Wayne.
Thank you, the only thing that distinguishes them is that they kill villains.
Well, I could see Nightwing killing if he genuinely believed it was the only option. That attempting things like locking them up has been tried and failed and more people suffered. Batman's refusal to kill is because of his trauma, Barbara's would be due to not wanting to disappoint her father, or worse get him into deep shit should she be revealed. Nightwing doesn't have those hang-ups, but he also doesn't have the brutal streak of Jason and Damian. He's a normal person. And a normal person can see that some of the scumbags, villain or normal crook, need to die for the good of others.
"The Bat FAmily doesn't kill... Except for you Jason. It's OK if you do it.'
And Huntress. Forgot about Huntress... and Ignore my first appearance, that isn't cannon. :P
They really just need to commit to the whole "Anti Hero" thing. Stop having him bounce between like 4 different versions of himself, stop having him help Batman or the Bat-family and fully commit to him being the black sheep, get his ass out of Gotham. Toss him into his own city with his own villains, maybe give him his own Court of Owls so no matter how many heads he cuts off the Hydra more just keep coming back.
I love Red Hood, but man they toss his characterization around more than a football at the Super Bowl.
He needs to basically abandon the Bat Family and have his own found family, maybe one with other anti-heroes who agree with his philosophy. And Batman needs to be given a good enough motivator to leave this group to some degree to their own devices, whether that’s because this group is acting outside of Gotham, or some Eternal Sunshine situation where the Batfam get together to make Bruce forget about Jason Todd as a way to help him.
Exactly. Red Hood was at his best with the Dark Trinity.
he has his own faily by name out laws , consist of members like arsenal ,redhood , starfire , artemis and bizzaro
I think that DC lost a great oportunity with red hood in Gotham war, i would love to see Jason teamming up with Batman against catwoman instead of Damian, and being the only one in the batfamily to help him. We already saw Jason not supporting Batman's side many times in the past, and it would be so cool to see him chaging his mind about controling crime
Truth be told, no one in the batfamily should’ve sided with Catwoman
@@captaincrisis226even cat woman..
That plan is so fucking dumb
There is no reason Damian would side against his father. But Jason should’ve sided with him too.
@@captaincrisis226I agree, everyone should've been against her.
Like it's so retarded @@windghost2
I want to see him as Dick's Joker. I think that would be the most interesting run possible. Having a redemption arc is also possible, and would show that Dick is more sympathetic than Bruce, because he was able to turn his Joker
SO much potential!
“You, so loyal to Bruce… You never question why he would ever send a Boy Wonder to do a man’s job.”
The writers should do something like this, insane to me how they've kept his character so stagnant over the years
Yh him testing and pushing Grayson to his limits would be mad, like beating him at his own game or killing villains before Nightwing gets to them
@@gothamwarrior should we just write this shit, like a fanfic and send it to dc?
They should've just kept him as a crime lord, honestly. I don't like him as a Punisher knockoff or as a member of the Batfamily since the reconciliation with Bruce was unearned and poorly handled. He hates the idea of kid sidekicks and thinks controlling crime is a better idea than simply fighting it. I wouldn't have him be a full-on villain that goes out of his way to screw with the Bats, just fight them when their objectives conflict. His "Rogues Gallery" could've been unique in that it consists of villains and heroes alike, heroes that try to bring him down and villains that want to take his place on the food chain, or Gotham Rogues that figured out he's the second Robin and occasionally try to use him to get at Bruce. The amount of wasted potential with this character is mind boggling.
Agreed!
The only question left is: should he stay in Gotham? Or should he get his own city?
@@CalvinNoire he could maintain some control over the Gotham criminal underworld to have a reason to come back to Gotham every once in a while, but most of his time would be spent trying to expand his operations outside of the city.
let him cook
Red Hood was a huge inspiration to my initial avatar and character on RUclips. I find myself preferring the anti-hero, murderous vigilante. Let him have a rocky relationship with Batman and the BatFamily, have times where they work together but his mindset making it impossible for them to always work alongside. That's the Jason Todd I prefer. An unapologetic lethal crime fighter that still holds his family close to his heart.
Issue is it makes the Batfam look worse/morally inconsistent if they have Red Hood in their orbit.
@@CRISIS_COMICS That's why I said it be impossible for them to stay working together. I was referring to events where there's a greater threat at the moment, not long term partnerships.
@@EndThusIAm That makes sense.
That’s my main interest in Jason. His guns and he will kill, just isn’t blood thirsty. He loves his family, but they’ll never be able to truly get along.
His character can be consistent in deeming some criminals need to be put down. But bat family will never agree with him.
The problem with Red Hood is that he really only works once. He’s can’t really work as a reoccurring antagonist and as a batfamily member he’s not that interesting since they have to take away his most intriguing traits
Exactly that's what I really think, I only think they nailed his whole character and personality in Under the Red hood but after then the path they took for Jason doesn't make amy sense to me
@@user-tn2uf4ow4fthey could still have as a crime boss who occasionally comes to gotham
they ruined him when they took away his guns and gave him that shitty costume with the hoodie and crowbars
Jason in the comics feels like Magneto in the X-men movies. Every time he's on the path of redemption, someone comes in, or something happens to put him on the side of wrong again cause nobody knows how to write him without having to revert to his original character arc.
I liked a lot of red hood rebirth run, having an anti hero crew. Giving Jason a sort of found family. It’s just dc always likes to make Jason fight the batfam all the time for some reason. We just need more of Jason away from the batfam. And I like how Wayne family adventures handles him even if he’s nicer there. I had a dream about a Jason story just to wake up and see it wasn’t real. It was pretty cool, essentially proffesor Pyg stole some research from the doll maker. To combine his dollotrons with doll masters doll making. And makes a whole host of doll people. Where Jason after finding this tries to bring one of the doll people to one of dc’s scientist. To reach the revelation that they can’t be saved. They’re damaged beyond fixing. So the final act has Jason having to kill all the mutilated doll people to set them free from the monstrous bodies they’ve been trapped in. And as he kills more and more, he gets progressively covered in more blood to the point where his suit becomes completely red. And he just walks after professor Pyg like a horror movie. And as Pyg runs by windows he gets shot by snipers set on timers premeditatedly by Jason. Crippling him for Jason to kill him as he sees the being soaked in blood coming to kill him. And afterwards Jason is at a cemetery having brought all the dead mutilated doll people and is burying their bodies. And the rest of the batfamily show up one after another. And just pick up shovels and start digging graves for the other bodies. With no words, no bad will, no cozy stuff, no Batman trying to beat his child. Just pick up shovels and start digging with no words said.
when bros dreams cook better than 20 years of dc writers
Dick Grayson has been and always will be my favorite DC character, but my gosh...look how they've massacred my boy. I agree with your take on how they've butchered THE RED HOOD, but I'd argue they've been doing this for a while with characters from the bat family. I mean look how they've destroyed Tim Drake. Anyways, appreciate your perspective.
Grayson really is the "one who got to grow up".
I think this is just a problem with comics. Just look what they've done with Spiderman.
@@johnark4723paul
@@johnark4723it's definitely still just a problem with specific characters. plenty of characters get meaningful character development, even big names. Daredevil, Thor, Hulk, and the X-Men have all had interesting and unique plotlines, revamps, and status quo changes in the last few years and they're all still going strong (well Thor kinda had a dip but now Al ewing has him so that's definitely over)
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 The Hulk was a terrible example. His story is a constant cycle of Bruce and the Hulk hating each other, making up, then breaking up again. Banner went from accepting the Hulk , to imprisoning him in his own body the very next series. for the X-men, Wolverine wouldn't stay dead and Jean Grey is constantly getting the phoenix force, turns evil, and dies. Also, notice how you only mentioned DC characters?
They should have just made him a full blown anti-hero/villain, to be the antithesis of Batman’s no killing rule as well as a living reminder for Bruce that he failed and it was because of that rule.
Red Hood really worked as an evaluation becoming a full on villain. I am fully for Grayson's Batman and Jason Todd having their rivalry explored
I’ve been saying this ever since they canceled rebirth outlaws
I think Lobdell had a lengthy enough run, not sure I like Rosenburg's voice for Jason, hopefully the new Red Hood solo is good.
Red Hood in theory would be the perfect final piece of Batman’s story- his past truly coming back to haunt him but obviously Batman’s story will never end. Maybe in a movie or tv series Red Hood could be used near the end to cap the story off.
Jason to me has always been a character that everyone kinda has a different idea of what he is, with a lot of his actions being more up to interpretation at most. i very frequently get frustrated by his appearances bc it seems most writers take the easierst/ laziest path writing this character. he's one of my favorites, and through my own interpretation of the character a lot of the things writers do with him just don't make sense, like him just being dc's punisher doesn't work for me at all
Killing is apart of Jason Todd (and should be apart of Damian Wayne’s) character (as well) and that should never change.
I think red hood should’ve stayed a villain trying to prove to the bat family that they’re handling crime the wrong way. Imo It’s when I think his character is at its best and makes the most sense
Personally I think Jason could become something of that of the Kingpin from Marvel. Someone who has near total control of crime and let's something happen when HE allows it to happen. We've seen in Under The Red Hood Jason almost took control of all crime in Gotham and even Batman admited that crime went down A LOT because of Red Hood. I would still love to see Jason going out and making sure real criminals are being put down. Murderers, r@pist, p€dos, and any other crime against children, Jason will NEVER let slide. But I can see Jason keeping a city safer by making sure he controls what's happening.
Let him leave Gotham, let Batman and the Batfamily follow their BS "No killing" rule and let Jason become his own man. Make him have his own place to watch over, maybe even give him his own rouge gallery or something.
They should've continued his weird relationship with Talia, Essence and the All-Caste, to set him up as the next leader of the League of Assassins. Keep him in the mystical side, but also give him an avenue to still cross paths with other heroes. This would allow him to evolve, and be independent, while still putting him in a rivalry with Damien, thus Bruce at times. He could be using the League to make the world better, in a more pragmatic sense, while still keeping himself in check due to his All-Caste teachings and being aware of how much power he has.
Jason Todd in the Wayne Family Adventures Webtoo is the best iteration of his character evolution in my opinion.
That’s non-canon as well 😮
@@CRISIS_COMICS the best Batman stories are always the non canon ones
@@dc7981Why?
@@CRISIS_COMICS I just take what I can get
I love how annoyed you sound whenever you go over Batman and Jason fighting in the comics lmao 😂
DC is just not good at Anti-heroes in general. If he was allowed to kill then he cant be part of the Bat Fam and they can't have that either.
I'd write him like an antiheroe. Going past that line of killing is a big part of the character, and i think that he has more to offer than to go full villain, and becoming a full on hero, even if ut would be the "happy ending" it would lose its charm imo. I WOULD make him slowly re-think his code regarding to killing criminals (starting in a more radical posture), getting to the conclusion of only doing it in the worst cases (basically, him doing his best to avoid it but disposed to do it if thats the right thing). I'd have him be close with Dick and Tim, and, despite coming to a mutual understanding with bruce, their bond would be severely damaged beyond a real repair. Likewise, I'd get him out of gotham. It's sad, but his profile would be in conflict with the statu quo of Gotham DC is adamant to keep. I'd like to see more grounded, human stories put to the test his moral code, as well as his past and skillset. This could be mixed with more standard issues with, for example, the Outlaws. You could also further expand his character via his relationship with Arsenal, Artemis, etc.
And most importantly, NO 180s for the sake of it!! Of course all of this is nearly impossible but hey, dreaming is free.
I have been a fan of Jason Todd ever since the movie, Batman: Under the Red Hood.
Why is Batman okay working with someone who kills criminals?
Good. Question.
ooh boy, DC just gave you this video part 2
I honestly think what they tried with him becoming a crime boss could have a lot of potential. He can still abide by what made him so interesting in Under the Red Hood, someone Batman couldn’t save and deciding to take things into his hands by ridding the world of crime by controlling it from the inside.
From there they can explore him being undercover for Batman or maybe an organization, or even not necessarily sticking close with the family and butting heads from time to time. It would also be cool to have him get a crew but have different characters like Helena or Selena and his father.
He could also get some interesting arcs where he rises to the top and has to face off against villains who want to become the top dogs and possibly make new Allie’s along the way
I love this. Not for Gotham though. Give him his own city, like Nightwing has his, and let him use this approach to control crime as opposed to the others, and make it work. That would be really intetesting
FINALLY! Someone actually talked about this! Bro really is wasted potential fr.
Please do a video on Tim Drake. If there's any character that has suffered it's Tim.
Agreed. I think Tim has it even worse.
DC does Tim so dirty 😭
can't wait till you hear about what just happened
I really really need more crime centric red hood solo works, he worked best in his crime lord era as both a batman rogue and an antihero that was a lone wolf. I love batman and Jason reconnect stuff but you cant have your cake and eat it too, it has to be one way or the other not back and forth constantly. Gotham War especially being a work of character assassination for both Jason, Bruce, AND Selena....
Jason needs his own little world I feel, he needs to be taken to an alternate universe that he can't escape from, and deal with that world as he wish he could've his own. That way joker can die without ruining the actual DC lore, or he needs to be much more like his injustice form, where he hates Batman yeah, but he hated Superman more, so he goes against Superman, in the stories he should team with x people to fight y problem. They try to definitively put him on a side when his character is so perfectly designed to be neutral, he's perfectly designed to pick sides based on morality, rather than owed favors
I wish that DC actually had the balls to choose the path for Jason and not regress him back into the status quo. I feel like the medium that he was created in makes it so that he doesn't get any character development.
Jason should have remained a villain. Him associating with the Bat-family at all, to say nothing of wearing the bat-symbol on this chest, is a betrayal of what the character was when Winick first brought him back. Also, as simply as the biker outfit with the helmet was as a costume, it was his best.
I haven't finished Arkham Knight yet (I think I'm around half-way through), but I'm hoping for good things, as the story's honestly been my favorite of the Arkham series so far.
“A Batman villain allowed in sleepovers” that’s perfect
I’ll steal that when talking about Red hood
its so frustrating, because red hood was designed to be in conversation with the status quo, railing against the norm of batman's eternal crusade and the tragedies it feeds off of. Making him part of the status quo makes all of that meaningless! You can't call him the one who Does What Needs To Be Done then never let him do anything.
In my ideal world, Jason would function like a hurricane. He blows into town without warning, destroys some stuff, and then leaves everyone else to figure out how to rebuild with what’s left. Maybe he blows up Arkham. Maybe he assassinates a trio of corrupt judges. Maybe he exposes a WE shareholder who was siphoning funds from the Wayne foundation. Maybe he shoots joker in the head. It should be game changing and irrevocable and of varying levels of good and bad when the dust has cleared.
That way DC gets a Suddenly, New Problem! button to push when things are getting stale, it lets us keep the tense and complicated family dynamics without getting too chummy or going full villain, and it lets Jason be a gleeful little menace which is where he does his best work.
That would've been great.
I think red hood was best portrayed in the animated film “under the red hood” as his reasons for doing what he did wasn’t evil, he didn’t just want to kill Batman because he couldn’t save him on time or kill every criminal in sight. He just was horrified that his death wasn’t enough to push Batman, his adoptive father, to break his code and finally get rid of the joker.
It’s a way more interesting reasoning for his actions rather than just “you never saved me so I wanna kill you.”
I didn’t like the Arkham knight red hood nor did I like the comics depictions where he’s tortured for over a year straight.
The brainwashing didn’t hit the same as just being angry that it wasn’t enough to push Batman.
Great video. It is super frustrating to see this status quo problem happen to a relatively new character. In the case of Spider-Man, as much as I hate it, I can stomach it better, because he’s Marvel’s flagship character and he’s been around for over half a century. But with Red Hood, you can see the potential slip away further with every new arc. It sucks.
I really wish Red Hood acted as the Punisher of the DC Universe. They could still have him team up with the Bat Family and honestly it would be much more interesting too.
Damian as a character always gets messed up but damn Jason has it worse, like at least we got Joshua Williamson.
At least something happens to Jason and at least sometimes they try to develop him in some direction. Tim was ruined worse than any other member of the batfamily.
@@fdjtron1732 Ahahahahha true at this point hes a stale story, just have him go off to collage for a years or two then bring him back with a whole not mantel. Would be far better then the tim drake robin run we have now.
@@fdjtron1732 - **I feel ya on Tim there. Honestly Pre 52 classic era comics will always be the DEFINITIVE for Tim drake 3rd robin. New 52...... I get it but! I still take it over REBIRTH... as soon as DC used Tim's character to go at it with some dude named Bernard and regressed being back to legit ROBIN... just... ugh... I give up. Pre and New 52 RED ROBIN I will take anyday!**
@@seabookfarno8656 Initially, it seemed that the Rebirth was going in the right direction with Tim, they even brought Tim from the Titans Tomorrow back and made him better than he was before. But then they went somewhere wrong.
@@fdjtron1732 - **SEE? Sooooo so far from reading my ROBIN BROS from their last legit comic book.... it is safe to say now that I'm kinda done reading both volumes BATMAN AND ROBIN ETERNAL. That was/is a great, not perfect, but a great send off again for all of the robins imo.**
The thing with Jason for me, is that he feels like he's just being a edgy contrarian at times. Like he could easily have his own turf where he does this on his own terms, but for some reason he specifically _has_ to do it under Batman's territory and he _has_ to defy anything Batman tells him *_NOT_* to do. I'm starting to wish that he just stayed dead.
He has to do it in Gotham because that’s where Batman is and Batman is a popular character, bolstering sales of Red Hood. DC’s probably also afraid that he can’t stand in his own without Bruce.
this was a really great video and deep dive, i feel like there are so many charcters in the batfamily that just don’t evolve
I think it would be cool if he stuck with Al ghul after being revived. I understand the Lazarus pit has a multitude of properties both good and bad but what if talia or her father groomed Jason after his rebirth. In continuity ra’s admits to being at fault for Jason and overall his biggest goal was making Bruce his successor with elaborate schemes. I think Damian was the leash for this ideal because in my opinion Damian was supposed to be utilized as a pawn to draw in the Batman, but all stories fail to make that happen. Jason would have been the best candidate because of his adept skill in being a robin and past that the craftiness and resourcefulness as Batman. He doesn’t have a grudge with Bruce because he looks up to him which forces them to clash instead of resolving their conflict, since Jason whole heartedly wants Bruce’s approval. I think an interesting change is if Jason came back to be the Batman Bruce is afraid of becoming (unapologetically) physically showing him the horror of his practices used in lethal intent instead of the constant bicker to what seems like a teenager and his father.
Yeah. This would've been good for an alternative universe story.
I love jason todd because he is the most relatable down to earth and realistic red hood , Who Goes Thru Constant trauma, failures, being Exiled from the people he call’s Family
His problem is that he's a bit player in the Batman myth. He can't be a strong stance that goes against the Batman mold because that doesn't work for ongoing Batman stories. He either needs to be prominent enemy of the family or he needs to go all out in his own mythos. Give him his own city separate from Bruce. Make him ignore gotham out of spite since he knows his methods can't exist there. You can still have moments when he runs into the members but have them tense where the team ups are bumpy and short.
In other words, Jason has been put in a situation where he has to be his own character but that can't work since writers can't find a way to build him without his strong ties to Bruce. He's stuck in Batman's shadow and will always just be "edgy wannabe punisher" He screams about Batman's useless methods but wears his symbol. He whines about the supervillains being alive, but he hasn't put a single important villain in the dirt. Now he comes off as impotent. So as a anti hero and a lead hero on his own, he fails.
I call cap on that jason or loki can't stay were they are at.
It's because writers are either incompetent or too afraid to write sympathetic yet unredeemable character.
Jason should be The black sheep of the family Someone who would never Compromise in his beliefs or His methods.
Have it tragic because there's a part of him that always wants the apart of the bat family but he refuses to give up his ways. That way you can justify the bat family Coming together.
But make it where he's never allowed to just eat a meal with Them. In fact should be treated as If he's not apart of like some bat family Big mission he should always be treated as no more than any other villain.
Which can be perfect for his solo series he's just kind of like the punisher where there's a bunch of people who agree with his actions and actively protect him from not only criminals and The law but also batman.
Started playing gotham knights recently and didnt expect to like it but man playing the story as jason after batman passing is suprisingly wholesome
Gotham wars just cooked my boy
Jason is my Robin because he enbodies the relapse cycle better than anyone else
I want my boy be happy and finaly let his ghosts and demons behind but dc treats him like marvel to spiderman
thats is like sh!t
What a great summary of all that's happened with Jason! I know it won't stick, but i hope the latest developments with him lead to an interesting run (or more) of how to be a hero with his current 'limitation'
"While everyone else is taking life, I’m going to be saving it” ~Desmond Doss *(Hacksaw Ridge)*
Red Hood could also work if they committed to making him an independent character and developing him AWAY from the Batfamily, basically let him be a grown ass man instead of still always being hung up over his mentor, When Grayson needed to develop they gave him some room tp breathe, and while they KINDA let Jason do his own thing, none of that really matters if they basically keep relapsing him every time they want to put him in the same comic as a member of the bat family.
I really hate to see something with so many potential avenues for success basically stay in an infinite loop of stagnation, seemingly largely because writers would rather be derivative and lazy and try and hit old emotional beats we've already covered rather than show either the discipline in order to develop him into something, or the courage to allow him to play out on his original destructive path.
Why doesn’t Batman lock him up, put the character on ice receiving psychiatric help from Arkham institution until he inevitably breaks out when convenient? Psychologically damaged but sympathetic and reoccurring is the M.O. of his rogues gallery.
I mean, he is not much crazy-er than the others. It is actually very inconsistent how sane he is, which is part of the issue
@@alicianieto2822 he’s a murderer. Batman should have taken him down. Not everyone belongs in Arkham some go to Blackgate.
I think Jason is at his best when he is with bizarro and Artemis.
You think Jason is bad? Look what they did to Tim Drake. What they did to Tim was a travesty. They tore his character up. I miss pre new 52 tim drake. Rebirth seemed like they were going in the right direction but then they made the worst decisions to his character right after.
had a feeling we most likely didn't get the jason in the comics like we saw in the "under the red hood" animated feature. I do like how that movie ends open ended, did jason survive or not? if not then, that adds to the beautiful tragedy. but if he did, and there's really no reason to since we don't see him again in any other animated movie after this, then its really just another day for batman. wonder if they'd try to do a red hood animated sequel since they did a prequel/choose your own adventure with him? "Red Hood vs Nightwing and Robin" for example, if the author could redeem his story then maybe he could with this too unless that was just capturing lighting in a bottle.
I haven't read the comics but after watching the animated movie Batman:Under the Red hood I couldn't imagine or believe anything would nail Jason's personality as how this movie did, this movie was my introduction to Jason and it's the reason why I liked him and feel he's so reasonable and well-written, if I were to write a story arc for Jason after the ending of Under the Red hood movie I would make him struggle in the consequences of his journey and Ideology and maybe make him at some point experience what Batman said "If I chose this path I would never come back" so he can understand how this path may have bad effects
Id prefer Red Hood being a lone wolf who has irreconcilable differences with Bruce that keeps them apart for the long term. But the SECOND one or the other is in trouble, there is 0 hesitation from either Bruce or Jason to drop everything and protect their father/son
Jason is close to spiderman levels of mishandling
They should make Jason's hair red again, every bat-family member except Kate, Barbara, and Stephanie have black hair.
I think a compromise could be made with Jason's charcter. Portraying him as a member of the Bat Family who prefers to strike out on his own more often and isn't afraid to take a life if it needs to happen. Batman knows that other heroes have taken lives before, so he wouldn't reprimand Jason on the grounds of self defense so long as he does't cross the line to out and out murder.
A fanfic called Hunters of Justice actually did this perfectly, reintegrating him into the Bat Family without taking away the parts that make his character compelling. He still used guns but with multiple forms of modified ammo for armor or nonlethal targets, as well as still potentially killing in self defense.
I think making him the anti-night wing would do a lot of good for both characters. Or the anti-batman. all I want is for him to have impact, he should be the Darth Vader of the DC comics, have him kill someone important, like, maybe he kills Tim Drake, or Penguin or even Harley Quinn. He also shouldn’t be defeated so easily, have him be Batman’s equal in combat not the angry teenager getting slapped around by his dad. Honestly, the more I think about it, having him replace the Joker by killing him, would both complete his character arc, while also setting him up for a permanent stay in the rouges gallery. It would also be a great send of to the Joker, while keeping the Batman stagnant in his no kill rule, as the Bat doesn’t kill him, his own crimes catch up to him. Yet, just like the Joker, the Red Hood was broken by one bad day. A great story, if handled correctly, but won’t happen due to the lack of direction in DC comics.
I would love to see him realize that killing may be easy but it’s not morally good, that it makes him criminal than human, more animal than human. But he can be something better
Watching this again after the new update to Gotham War has me punching the floor in agony
i think a simple thing to do is to give jason his own city to patrol where he can be the violent vigilante he is, and he has an agreement where if he enters gotham, he doesn't kill which means he is at a point where he can be around the batfamily without conflict but varying members may still feel off about him but tolerate it, others more open to him visiting. this would allow for some wiggle room for them to develop jason away from the batfamily and retain the appeal he has to a a lot of people but can still do team ups and visit the batfamily.
Tis the nature of comics. Most characters aren’t able to leave a certain status quo because the companies don’t want them to and/or certain fans don’t want them to. I personally prefer Jason as a member of the Bat-family more brutal in his methods sure, isn’t entirely trusted by all of them yes. But he always strives to be better because the Bat-Fam is the only family he has left. I especially lean towards this route for Jason because of Gotham knights his and Dicks interactions are genuinely some of my favorite in all Bat media.
I think it’s way worse in Red Hood. It isn’t like he even has a defined character at this point, he can’t even technically “regress” because he’s been equally non-commital in all of his roles 😢
Jason is stuck between wanting to be like the rest of his family and wanting to be himself. It's like he's trying to fit into a mold that doesn't suit him imo.
The interesting thing about the comics were jason assults the abuser son of the diplomat is that there is continuation of that story arc were the abusers father seeks revenge and ends up causing alot of people to die includong the diplomat himself. Batman uses that situation to point out to jason that by killing the abuser jason only caused more unnecessary death. Thus justifying the no kill rule.
Oh wow! I didn't know this!
I really don’t think batman has any say in the topic of unesacary death
This video makes me wonder what happened to The Signal - Duke Thomas.
Great video Jason Todd to me always felt like unrealised potential. I'd keep him as an anti hero thats where he works best.
Nobody cares about him he’ll I didn’t even know his name until today
16:50, 17:25, I remember seeing in another comment section how some believe Jason is better than Bruce because he sometimes kills while Batman never does, as the argument is sometimes criminals are too dangerous to simply spare and imprison.
In concept, there’s validity to this argument, as it would suggest Jason is willing to eliminate those that are the biggest threat, those that cannot be redeemed, those who Batman supposedly wastes his mercy on and indirectly grants more opportunities to spread destruction and malice across the city.
In practice, all Jason is portrayed doing is brutalizing and slaughtering petty criminals, hired goons, individuals that by comparison pose little threat to him or the city, especially when compared to the various supercriminals he could be eliminating instead (just like Snyder’s Batman is portrayed).
In that context, Jason comes off more a school bully tormenting those smaller and weaker than him to indulge his rage and compensating for personal insecurities rather than someone actually looking to be a better version of Batman that is willing to make Gotham safe by any means necessary, especially murdering supercriminals, the individuals who he would be most justified in killing considering the threat they pose to others on a citywide scale and how easily they can spread destruction compared to the average thug.
I recently read Webtoon’s Red Hood’s Outlaws and realized just how much they seem to not understand Jason. Or if they try to, they fail horribly. He’ll either be incredibly inconsistent or just plain make no sense in regards to his character development. Very few writers it seems know how to handle Jason Todd. Especially in regards to him and BatFamily.
Also-this is just a personal pet peeve. But I despise whenever a character in the story has to point out that Jason is Batman’s “Greatest Failure” every five seconds or even to his face. Like-the lack of empathy for him is baffling?? Whenever a new Robin is in a scene they always have to point out how they never want to “end up like Jason”. Even Jason’s own FATHER (Bruce) has to say it to his face. Like, don’t say that to your son’s face that’s not helping the situation. Jesus. 😂😂 What’s wrong with Jason?? The poor boy was tortured and killed prematurely, hardly a failure on anyone’s part, truly. Just rubbing pure acid of the man’s wounds
Totally true! Lol
I love Jason as a character cause he’s such a tragic character but with his relationship with the Batfamily, that there’s some hope for him and that he can be redeemed
Great research! Loved the video overall man the analysis of Jason’s whole story was spot on. Jason used to be my favorite before there was a red hood character and I thought red hood would be cool. He kinda doesn’t have a character besides “not Nightwing”
The best explanation for why Jason doesn't kill the Joker, that I could think of, that isn't perfect but could be done, is because Jason could want Bruce to kill him still. He could still hold hope that Batman will kill Joker himself, to break his one rule, just once. Would this contradict his multiverse arch? Yes. But so does everything else.
Jason before becoming red hood actually caught joker and was about to burn him. But he felt it was to quick and easy for him. Jason in a way wants joker to suffer.
He should have stayed an Anti hero him killing villains was awesome they ruined him. They should have just given him his own comic
Idk why mainstream media is so Afraid of antiheros... just because a character is super popular doesn't mean he has to be a good guy. The Appeal of red hood as a character is that his morals are apposed to that of Batman... he's broken in a different way than The rest of the family. He's the black sheep, the middle child. Thats what makes him likeable.
You say that as if we aren’t living in a world where paragon type characters like Superman’s are seen as boring in favor of stuff like the boys and invincible lol. Ironically a character like red hood would have thrived in the 90s and early 00s when edgy anti heroes were basically the norm lol. His popularity was his downfall arguably
I have an idea for a cool Red Hood Story but I think it would require a lot more research on my part to make it worthwhile where would you recommend someone start to make sure they dont miss any of his character development throughout each continuity. Including those of the multiverse.
Great job on the video 👏
A story that could work with Red Hood is one where a camera picks up footage of Red Hood about to finally end Joker until Batman stops and defeats him. The footage gets leaked and everyone in Gotham becomes outraged, thinking that by letting Joker live, Batman is inadvertently leading innocents to die. Maybe some of the Gotham police and people decide that they should take matters into their own hands and follow Red Hood's methods of dealing with criminals, which causes Batman to have to stop many random criminals from dying (sorta like the story where Bane weakned Batman by slowly tearing him out due to stopping crime non stop). At first, Jason is happy that the threats are being dealt with and that people are finally standing up for themselves. That is until he learns that the police and people who took matters into their own hands ended up killing many suspects that were believed to be criminals but were actually innocent. Red Hood would then start to feel guilty over the chaos he's caused and teams up with the Bat Family to try and fix the mess he made.
I’m surprised Jason isn’t allowed to kill Batman Super Villains. They could just as easily be revived as any other super hero.
Jason’s arc should be this: kill criminals, be regressed by this, and wants a second chance for his family but is torn by his anger and ideology
That sounds great.
@@rustyshackelford4224 what if Jason decides to kill Joker but Tim wants to help him cause he threatens Stephanie, and in the final scene, when Joker starts to laugh and gloat how proud he is of Jason for being his final product against Batman’s sanity, Tim kills him instead. Jason is shocked by this reaction as well as Tim is, but when the police come, Jason says he did it to protect his brother. And in the next issue, the police happy cause the Joker’s finally dead and so they cheer for Red Hood but they still have to take him to jail. Batman and Barbara feels like something is off so Bats goes back to the scene to see what actually happen and Barbara looks at the evidence
Under the Red Hood potrays his character so well and I'm so mad that they didn't just stick with that side of him. His character potrays the complexity of justice in the eyes of law and justice in the eyes of a troubled society. He has so much potential being a ruthless and kind antihero, to deep dive into his morality that very much questions Batman's in a very profound way. Yet it seems like DC hated him so much that they wasted this amazingly constructed character into a confused hero just to stand in Batman's shadow with not much to do. It's just disappointing to see that even fanfic writers write better character development for him.
Red Hood fans after seeing him go back to Gotham to do jack shit and then get beat up by Batman for the 9th time this week
19:53 😂 I like that one, a Batman villain allowed at sleep overs lol