I am a retired ford tech ford supplied dealers with the set up tools for their diffs and you had a pipe that you bolted in the carrier position and pinion depth goodies where you did not use the actual pinion gear measured with feeler gauges. Fords setup tools worked fantastic and was fast to do because you did not use the actual pinion. when you found the correct shims slap them on the pinion and install it and get the correct backlash on the carrier 99% you were dead on when you checked the gear mesh. i got the tool you used for doing diffs in my home shop, i cussed that damn thing the first few times i used it till i watched a few videos were they honed the bearings and i cooled down then. works great espicially on those darn whinning jeep cherokee diffs. gotta a 85 dodge van i bought for camping has a 294 gear open. gonna install a locker and probably go to a 355 to 373 cause it's bad high speeded for pulling my stratos bass boat and with and open rear the van and boat will be in the water. people are for the most part dumb when it comes to buying trucks to pull thier boats and 80% of the time dealers order open rear diff trucks to save money as it is an added cost option. people say i got a 4 wheel drive z71 if it has an open rear and front diff you ain't got shit cause you pulling one on rear and one on front and guess what you put that junk in the mud you are just as stuck as my van,, and yes people are stupid that's why there so many safety devices on gas cans, lawn mowers, and a trigger lock on damn wood working tools skil saws etc.. Go ahead dumbass stick your finger in that plastic blade fan when i was a kid the blades were gool old metal LOL good day
I must say. I found you pre career fixing my own can. Now several years later using this vid to learn how to properly use this new tool the boss got now I'm fixing other ppls stuff. Thanks for the knowledge you provide it is invaluable
a 1 2 3 block used for a spacer in machining work. It takes up space and is finely ground to exact specifications. each dimension is 1/2/3 inches usually.
@@ericthecarguy @EricTheCarGuy don't mean to pimp wares or anything, but watch some This Old Tony for some quality infotainment in the machining world. Those calibration gauges are called standards. The 123 block is mostly useless in this application until you get a surface plate and a whole bunch of other tools, but I'm a machinist not a mechanic and can see their being mechanic hacks for 123 blocks. I'm also pretty sure you were looking for the shortest distance, not the longest. Indicators take comparative measurements meaning that larger number where the indicator peaks at it's highest number is actually a shorter distance. In other words, the highest number on the indicator is indicating the negative space on the axis measured. They're kind of backwards or counter intuitive to a tape measure. Indicators work towards 0, other measurements work from 0. I'll ask my buddy what 123 blocks do in this application without other reference tools like v-blocks, more 123 blocks, surface plate and surface gage at a minimum while ingoring Jo blocks. If you have the money grab yourself a copy of Machinery's Handbook, any revision will do unless you're out there making parts on the cutting edge of technology. It is, in my humble opinion, the second most important book to humanity next to the Bible. Anyway, I'm not throwing shade. You unknowingly helped me fix my old Honda some 5 or 6 years ago. Just trying to help you understand indicators in return since I have something to contribute for a change. Edit: 123 blocks have a lot of uses. They are also hardened and precision ground to be plumb, square and true into tenths, if not millionths. The things you can use them for are only limited to your imagination.
@Jason Gifford Thank you for that info. I did the measurements according to what the instructions laid out. Given that I was able to get a correct measurement, I believe I did everything correctly. Thanks again.
Me: a 16 year old kid who was bored so I decided to pull out a perfectly fine running differential out of my 1949 Chevrolet just to see what it looked like. It fell on my chest and caused a very loud grunt. OK, looks good, slam it back together and what were those funny looking looking slotted bearing caps for? No worries...What's that loud whine on acceleration? Next stop an auto repair shop and the release of some hard to come by cash for the repair. Shied away from rear end work all of my life since then. This video gives me hope! Thanks, Eric.
11:00 The difference between calculated shim adjustment and final actual comes down to the fact the face 3:39 of the pinion you're measuring from, using the magnet as a plane, isn't ground flat and perpendicular to the axis of rotation and the flat magnet sits on it. It's heat treated and case hardened and that process alone can introduce high spots on that face. The magnet will sit on the three high spots that are directly in contact with it at any one time and that position changes when you remove to adjust the shims and do the final install. Obviously, if the magnet is not used in the exact same position on the pinion face, those spots can be different and give it a slightly different reading each time. But any difference is insignificant in the big scheme. Try and get it much closer without refining the methodology closer and you are just going to be chasing your tail as every time you remove it to adjust the shims the magnet will be placed on a random three high spots and the measurement will change again.
Hey Eric! That block with all the holes in it is called a 1 2 3 block. They are very popular in the machining world. Each side is precision ground so it measures exactly 1” thick by 2” wide by 3” long, hence the name. They are commonly used to check the accuracy/calibration of precision measuring instruments such as that dial indicator there, or perhaps a dial or digital caliper. They are also commonly used as precision spacers. Those are just a few of there many uses but I would assume that one came with your kit to be used to check the accuracy of the measuring setup as a whole, and also to be used as a precision spacer if need be. Like say the dial indicator doesn’t reach the face of the pinion you can put the 1 2 3 block against the face of the pinion and measure off from that, then just add 1”, 2”, or 3” to your measurement depending on how you have the 1 2 3 block oriented. A very handy tool for doing precision work.
It is actually included in the kit so you can put the inner pinion bearing, by itself, in the inner pinion race, and measure to the face of the bearing to get the mounting distance of the pinion. By comparing this dimension to the MHD (Master Housing Dimension) listed by the manufacturer, one can determine how much shim thickness is required without even having to install the pinion for a single trial fit.
These videos are in a class of their own. Quality all the way. Always a great day when ETCG uploads - still the best on RUclips. Long live Eric the Car Guy!
It's a 1 2 3 block used for machining. The name comes from its dimensions being 1 inch by 2 inches by 3 inches. It has tons of uses, I use it for starting drill bits, center drilling or taps to make sure they go in straight
Hey Eric, 04 Super duty again, the gentleman that lent this tool dropped it off and didn't have time to explain it. Went camping for 2 weeks...so perfect timing again for me thanks to you! Just got all the parts in today and going to hit in am. In the driveway weather permitting over in uconn,ct. Thanks brother...btw,chipped ring and pinion, cracked yoke,frozen u joints and wasted carrier bearing,and with brakes frozen pins so only caliper pistons hitting the rotor...could have had a bad day but got real lucky
Allen wrench is 1/8 inch. This is a great video, I used this same tool last night and this video was a great resource and made the use of this tool go smooth and fast. I bought this tool months ago but had not taken the time to learn how to set it up (aka dragging my feet), this video solved that issue in 10 minutes, thank you Eric.
Your the Only person who does it the way I do by using a special setup bearing! Much Much better. I honed about .0005" which is the normal interference fit for a steel pressed fit part. I also have a depth gage.
All aftermarket gear sets (Richmond, US Gear, Zoom) for the most part will start off at .035 for 8.5 and 12 bolt Chevys. Run a pattern and see what you got. Make sure that the backlash is 8 to 10 max for a street gear and 6 to 8 max for a drag gear if you have a round track car you will need even more back lash 10 to 12. Your looking for a pattern to start off on the toe and run off mid tooth (the strongest part of the gear) on the drive side. Coast side will start off on the heel and end mid to lower toe of the tooth. If all that is over your head have a pro do it or you will have one noisy rear end on your hands. Gear set change outs are not for the every day backyard mechanic. That kit he has is in the $500 range and is not needed if you know what your doing. Besides the paperwork that comes with the new gear set will tell you what you need to know. Preload on the bearings is very important also street, Drag and round track all have different preloads. Why? HEAT is why. Rear ends get warm and when you have heat you have expansion. Have fun.....
28 to 32 thousands usually a good starting point on a Gm but I’m getting this tool thanks for the video I made my comment before I watched 1 min of the video I have been building diffs for 30 years and have never bought a pinion depth tool could have saved myself so much time
Thanks, great how to video to following along with the provided tool instructions. You mentioned the 1-2-3 block which is used for the alternative method of obtaining pinion depth and shim pack requirements. That way you do not have to grind bearings and spend the extra hours setting a diff up. Thanks
If you don't have the tool.look for teeth meshing in center of teeth ring gear. It may take several times assembling and disassemble .and when it is right it will sound like a precision pair of scissors when turning pinion.
I have watched several of these and almost all are on either the GM or Ford 8.8. I guess that all the vehicles out there are either a GM or Ford. Basically what you are measuring is the distance from the center of the carrier bearings to the end of the pinion gear. I'm a retired machinist & am trying to figure out a way to measure that distance in a much simpler way than using all those gage blocks & a dial indicator. Something like a parallel bar & a depth mic. As a machinist all those gage parts seem a bit Mickey Mouse. I'll keep looking for accurate info on MoPar diffs but this is a good video.
First video on this I’ve been able to stay to the end and understand! I wish this tool was not so damn expensive for a backyard mechanic like me. I’ve tried to see if there is a loner I could get at my local automotive supply but no luck. I’m doing a Dana 30, and I’m just gonna go by the old shim stack to start with and do it the old-fashioned way with backlash and pattern measurements.
out of all the hundreds of pinion set up videos I've watched, this was shown and explained the best. ( although when you got to the maths, you lost me. should have took more notice in school)
The Block calls " 1 2 3 block", they are precision group to 1 inch 2 ich and 3 inch. And mostly it's for cheching the hight or use as of a precision spacer. You can get different sizes as well like 2 3 4 or 3 4 6. And you can buy them from any machine shop tool supplies for cheaper prices.
Sharp idea honing out those old bearings & make sure it's the same OEM manufacturer as the new one. Thanks alot . Great content. Getting ready to build a GM 10 bolt as my first build & use oil on bearings to get get accurate reading.👍
thanks man i appreciate this video i bought one of these gauges at a swap meet that was very gently used and complete but didn't know how to use it till a watched this video .wish others teaching car guys would be more simple on explaining instead of trying to be funny and confusing .did my first rear diff and wallah it freaken works great
The 123 block is for measuring pinion depth without putting the pinion gear in. You put the race in, the bearing, then you put the 123 block on the bearing and measure to it and just add the 2" to the reading and that will tell you what thickness shim to use. No clue how accurate that is as it seems without the preload on the bearing, the reading may be off a bit. But ths is to keep you from having to make a setup bearing or press the bearing on and off to change the shim.
In your last video when you showed this tool after getting the differential adjusted, I wished that you could make a separate video on this awesome tool & many Thanks you did😉 Very helpful information in this video👍 Stay Safe❤
The 123 block is probably to calibrate the dial indicator or to extend its reach. Take a look thru the instructions and if theres a section on calibration that's where I'd expect the 123 block to be used.
Great Video...I have the YUKON Pinion tool....and the instructions were not clear....your instruction of the T&D tool..cleared up all my questions. 4 Stars !!!
I like to calibrate my tool on the work bench before putting it into the differential. This was a large enough differential to calibrate this way but with smaller differentials it's almost impossible. I also thoroughly dislike the dial gauge that comes with the kit just because the revolution counter rotates twice for the full 1" of travel. PS. That is an 1/8" Alan wrench and the 1,2,3 block can be used to extend the measurement capabilities of the tool by as much as 3".
Great info well explained and clear details on all of your videos I do appreciate you shearing this type of I know that you’re helping a lot of viewers like me keep up the good work
Eric. There is another way. The machined surface at the split line of the bearing caps is at the center of the axle. So I lay a flat ground bar (for example a 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide bar). You want a "ground" bar because they will usually be machined perfectly flat and square with a .005" or better tolerance. You cut a length of this bar that will span the distance between the machined surfaces of both carrier bearings. I then use a depth micrometer to measure from the bar to the face of the pinion. I then subtract the thickness of the bar (1/4" in this case) from that measurement. This will give you the pinion depth (checking distance from face of pinion to center of axle/ring gear). I think its just as accurate as these expensive tools, quicker and less math.
@@nodriveknowitall702 If you are unsure, you can put the bearing cap on and measure the ID of the bore. Then take it off and measure from the split line to the inside of the bore. This will confirm if the split line is the centerline and if not how much you should add or subtract.
@@dennis6325 You might check all four cap fastening points. I can't guarantee that the plane made by the milled fastening points are perpendicular to the axis of pinion or parallel the axis of the carrier bearings. If you're squaring up your measuring device to these machined surfaces, you might be introducing error. I have read statements that called this into question. These may have been flukes, imagined issues, or fabrications by manufacturers of pinion depth measuring kits. After enough measurements, one might decide it's perfectly fine. I don't know. I'm just doing research right now and trying to separate wheat from chaff. I've got what the factory service manual says, what various forum members say, what some videos say, and a smidgeon of measurement consideration and machining experience. I'll be tearing apart a sterling 10.25 tomorrow, to assess further damage and get measurements before I order parts.
Some differentials have the shims behind the outer race (aka "bearing cup"), between the race and the differential housing. Dana 60 is one example of this. So the process is different because the larger pinion bearing can be pressed onto the pinion shaft from the beginning and you never need to remove it. However, the smaller pinion bearing will need to removed and reassembled multiple times. Strange Engineering likes to polish the pinion shaft on a lathe in the place where the small bearing goes so it will just slide on with a very close fit. I think that is a very good idea for multiple reasons. There is no real need for a press fit in that location on a Dana 60 partly because a Dana 60 should use only shims for setting preload, not a crush sleeve (though some OEMs might use a crush sleeve from the factory... When re-gearing the crush sleeve should be eliminated and only shims should be used). Eliminating the crush sleeve and using only shims for preload is a more reliable setup, overall.
the calibration tube includes the magnet thickness , You have to have something offset from the pinion face so the indicator tip will be square to the face on the gear.
I spent all day learning how to use this tool and understanding Measured Housing Depths, Master Housing Dimensions, and Calibrated Depths. The long and medium extensions are calibrated to be used with the thickness of the magnetic target plate. The short extension is calibrated to the thickness of the non-magnetic target plate. So, if you eyeball up the length of the dial indicator to the center of the cross shaft, you will not get the right measurement until you add the thickness of the corresponding target plate. That threw me for a loop and I thought I had defective extensions / calibration tubes. It's part due to my OCD in double-checking stuff. That 1-2-3 block, as others have said, is just a precision machined hunk of metal that has 1", 2" and 3" dimensions. It took me awhile to figure that out, too. 1H x 2W x 3D. The holes don't mean anything in this application. It is used so that you don't have to utilize setup bearings to set the pinion depth..... The markings on my pinion head face are 4.125 and a 65 number. I don't know what 65 is, and I didn't know what 4.125 was, either. It is definitely not Pinion Depth because it is roughly 2" more than it should be. I called Elite Gear (Ron's Machining Services) which is from where I got them, and he told me that those numbers don't mean anything and I should just set the pinion depth to whatever the original equipment calls for. The problem is that I cannot measure the pinion head thickness to determine that because the original pinion does not have a machined face on it to measure it from. After more brain pain in figuring this out, I discovered that 4.124 (4.125) is the Master Housing Depth. That is the distance that we want to achieve from the "face" of the installed pinion bearing (the large one) to the center of the cross pin of this tool, or I guess if you ran an solid axle all the way through the axle housing, it would be in dead center of it. In other words, the "centerline" of the installed ring gear. If that measurement is 4.135 inches instead, we need to add .010 inches of shim to get it to 4.125". Pinion Depth is nothing more than the Master Housing Depth minus the pinion head thickness, so either measurement can be used to get the pinion set with the correct shims. All (Domestic auto?) axles will have a specific Master Housing Depth to achieve. A Chrysler 8.25 is 4.124", a Dana 30 is 3.625", Ford 8.8 is 4.415", etc. Some axles have "submodels" with option differences that will have this measurement vary. In my case, I have the axle out of the vehicle and the pinion housing facing down so gravity works with me. You stack that 1-2-3 block on the bearing, add the target plate, (I like to push down and spin the bearing back and forth a bit to get it seated and use pressure to hold it there) then you use the dial indicator to take the measurement as described in this video. You subtract the Indicator Reading from the Calibrated Depth, add the height of the 1-2-3 block to get the Measured Housing Dimension. You subtract the master Housing Dimension from the Measured Housing Depth to get the amount of shim required. If you can find a shim to put behind the outer pinion bearing race instead, I don't see why you can't do that. You can much more easily remove the outer race than remove the inner race from the pinion shaft if you want to re-check it. I'm pretty sure that Ron's Machining Services was incorrect and that number on the pinion head *DOES* mean something. It is a helluva coincidence that it matches the Master Housing Depth... within .001" which I am pretty sure is well within tolerances when setting up a pinion. Instead of marking it with Pinion Depth, it has been marked with the master housing dimension. Anyways, I hope this is right. My break is over and I am heading out to the garage to put it together based on what I just ranted about. If I am wrong, I'll have to come back to delete this comment.
Is the pinion depth calculated being measured from the center line of the carrier bearings? in other words the face of the pinion is x.xx" from the carrier center line?
Some pinions have a small step up on the face of the pinion where you put the magnet. Is the measurement taken from the raised center portion or from the edge, which is lower?
That works pretty accurate but I went by the other specs because I couldn't afford 500 bucks or more for a tool I was going to use twice maybe if that. I went with the teeth pattern and back lash. But I think this tool would save u time if u did this for a living.
Correct me if Im wrong, but I'm assuming that the "mystery block with holes" 0:44 seems to me like its an afterthought - aka they put it there at the last minute... Notice how the padding is crudely cut compared to the other pieces. It seems out of place; somewhere in the corner shoved... Just my opinion 🧐😉
As a machinist I hate to say....that chinese indicator is worth about $5 Go to a quality machine shop supplier and get top notch Starret indicators and 1-2-3 blocks for less than half the price. A top of the line Interapid indicator is about $100.
Thanks for this easy understanding video. I have a question. Why did you use the old shim as you measured .011 so you should remove the old shim and install a .011 shim only ? Am i wrong ?
I’ve turned into the diff guy at my shop and with as many diffs as we’re doing I need to get this. Could you elaborate on what the purpose of the magnet is? My guess is that it is used because the center line of the pinion does not match up with the canter line of the tool/carrier, which is the nature of it. Do you have to compensate for the magnet in your measurements? Thanks for the video. I need to get one. It would save so much time.
Hi. Am I missing something. You appeared to measure to the magnet. If so you need to take its thickness into account. Forgive me if I've mis understood.
Eric thanks for the videos,as always great to watch and educational, you always do it by the book but only one problem you are putting on the kilos just like me LOL
Hi Eric I have been working on my granddaughter’s 2007 Mustang 5 speed trans, 4.0 Liter motor with an 7.5 rear differential. Rear seal leaked out the fluid and we had to change out the gears. The old gears was 331 ratio and the new gears are 345 ratio and the pinion stamp is 2.323. Using a pinion depth tool like you used in your video. 2.500 pin the measurement is .266 =2.234 and pinion numbers are 2.323 - 2.234 = .089. No sims under the rear pinion bearing. What did I do wrong? I keep watching your video over and over again to see what I missed. I have worked on differential before but is one has beat me up. I hope you can tell me what to do. Thanks Gary
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I am a retired ford tech ford supplied dealers with the set up tools for their diffs and you had a pipe that you bolted in the carrier position and pinion depth goodies where you did not use the actual pinion gear measured with feeler gauges. Fords setup tools worked fantastic and was fast to do because you did not use the actual pinion. when you found the correct shims slap them on the pinion and install it and get the correct backlash on the carrier 99% you were dead on when you checked the gear mesh. i got the tool you used for doing diffs in my home shop, i cussed that damn thing the first few times i used it till i watched a few videos were they honed the bearings and i cooled down then. works great espicially on those darn whinning jeep cherokee diffs. gotta a 85 dodge van i bought for camping has a 294 gear open. gonna install a locker and probably go to a 355 to 373 cause it's bad high speeded for pulling my stratos bass boat and with and open rear the van and boat will be in the water. people are for the most part dumb when it comes to buying trucks to pull thier boats and 80% of the time dealers order open rear diff trucks to save money as it is an added cost option. people say i got a 4 wheel drive z71 if it has an open rear and front diff you ain't got shit cause you pulling one on rear and one on front and guess what you put that junk in the mud you are just as stuck as my van,, and yes people are stupid that's why there so many safety devices on gas cans, lawn mowers, and a trigger lock on damn wood working tools skil saws etc.. Go ahead dumbass stick your finger in that plastic blade fan when i was a kid the blades were gool old metal LOL good day
I can't understand this word salad
I must say. I found you pre career fixing my own can. Now several years later using this vid to learn how to properly use this new tool the boss got now I'm fixing other ppls stuff. Thanks for the knowledge you provide it is invaluable
a 1 2 3 block used for a spacer in machining work. It takes up space and is finely ground to exact specifications. each dimension is 1/2/3 inches usually.
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy @EricTheCarGuy don't mean to pimp wares or anything, but watch some This Old Tony for some quality infotainment in the machining world.
Those calibration gauges are called standards. The 123 block is mostly useless in this application until you get a surface plate and a whole bunch of other tools, but I'm a machinist not a mechanic and can see their being mechanic hacks for 123 blocks.
I'm also pretty sure you were looking for the shortest distance, not the longest. Indicators take comparative measurements meaning that larger number where the indicator peaks at it's highest number is actually a shorter distance. In other words, the highest number on the indicator is indicating the negative space on the axis measured. They're kind of backwards or counter intuitive to a tape measure. Indicators work towards 0, other measurements work from 0.
I'll ask my buddy what 123 blocks do in this application without other reference tools like v-blocks, more 123 blocks, surface plate and surface gage at a minimum while ingoring Jo blocks.
If you have the money grab yourself a copy of Machinery's Handbook, any revision will do unless you're out there making parts on the cutting edge of technology. It is, in my humble opinion, the second most important book to humanity next to the Bible.
Anyway, I'm not throwing shade. You unknowingly helped me fix my old Honda some 5 or 6 years ago. Just trying to help you understand indicators in return since I have something to contribute for a change.
Edit: 123 blocks have a lot of uses. They are also hardened and precision ground to be plumb, square and true into tenths, if not millionths. The things you can use them for are only limited to your imagination.
@Jason Gifford Thank you for that info. I did the measurements according to what the instructions laid out. Given that I was able to get a correct measurement, I believe I did everything correctly. Thanks again.
@@ericthecarguy in the directions they describe how to use the 123 block to determine depth on a non marked pinon.
Power of the internet.. We all get to learn off each other. Thanks for the input.
Me: a 16 year old kid who was bored so I decided to pull out a perfectly fine running differential out of my 1949 Chevrolet just to see what it looked like. It fell on my chest and caused a very loud grunt. OK, looks good, slam it back together and what were those funny looking looking slotted bearing caps for? No worries...What's that loud whine on acceleration? Next stop an auto repair shop and the release of some hard to come by cash for the repair. Shied away from rear end work all of my life since then. This video gives me hope! Thanks, Eric.
I think our mistakes are the best teachers.
11:00 The difference between calculated shim adjustment and final actual comes down to the fact the face 3:39 of the pinion you're measuring from, using the magnet as a plane, isn't ground flat and perpendicular to the axis of rotation and the flat magnet sits on it. It's heat treated and case hardened and that process alone can introduce high spots on that face. The magnet will sit on the three high spots that are directly in contact with it at any one time and that position changes when you remove to adjust the shims and do the final install. Obviously, if the magnet is not used in the exact same position on the pinion face, those spots can be different and give it a slightly different reading each time. But any difference is insignificant in the big scheme. Try and get it much closer without refining the methodology closer and you are just going to be chasing your tail as every time you remove it to adjust the shims the magnet will be placed on a random three high spots and the measurement will change again.
Hey Eric! That block with all the holes in it is called a 1 2 3 block. They are very popular in the machining world. Each side is precision ground so it measures exactly 1” thick by 2” wide by 3” long, hence the name. They are commonly used to check the accuracy/calibration of precision measuring instruments such as that dial indicator there, or perhaps a dial or digital caliper. They are also commonly used as precision spacers. Those are just a few of there many uses but I would assume that one came with your kit to be used to check the accuracy of the measuring setup as a whole, and also to be used as a precision spacer if need be. Like say the dial indicator doesn’t reach the face of the pinion you can put the 1 2 3 block against the face of the pinion and measure off from that, then just add 1”, 2”, or 3” to your measurement depending on how you have the 1 2 3 block oriented. A very handy tool for doing precision work.
Thank you for that info!
Absolutely!
It is actually included in the kit so you can put the inner pinion bearing, by itself, in the inner pinion race, and measure to the face of the bearing to get the mounting distance of the pinion. By comparing this dimension to the MHD (Master Housing Dimension) listed by the manufacturer, one can determine how much shim thickness is required without even having to install the pinion for a single trial fit.
You know, most videos like this on RUclips are beyond terrible, but yours is VERY well done sir. Thanks for posting this.
Great explanation! The tool might be expensive but it's less or darn near the same to pay someone else to do it and I get to learn something new!
These videos are in a class of their own. Quality all the way. Always a great day when ETCG uploads - still the best on RUclips. Long live Eric the Car Guy!
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy You're most welcome. Just keep being who you are.
It's a 1 2 3 block used for machining. The name comes from its dimensions being 1 inch by 2 inches by 3 inches. It has tons of uses, I use it for starting drill bits, center drilling or taps to make sure they go in straight
Thank you!
Thank you for all the awesome videos and content over the years!
This is correct.
It's a 123 Block. 1"x 2" x 3" block for calibrating your depth and outside micrometer. Thank you for your videos.
Hey Eric, 04 Super duty again, the gentleman that lent this tool dropped it off and didn't have time to explain it. Went camping for 2 weeks...so perfect timing again for me thanks to you! Just got all the parts in today and going to hit in am. In the driveway weather permitting over in uconn,ct. Thanks brother...btw,chipped ring and pinion, cracked yoke,frozen u joints and wasted carrier bearing,and with brakes frozen pins so only caliper pistons hitting the rotor...could have had a bad day but got real lucky
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Good luck!
Thank you to the Internet's best auto shop teacher. Appreciate it Sir.
Allen wrench is 1/8 inch. This is a great video, I used this same tool last night and this video was a great resource and made the use of this tool go smooth and fast. I bought this tool months ago but had not taken the time to learn how to set it up (aka dragging my feet), this video solved that issue in 10 minutes, thank you Eric.
I don't know what it is about differential work but I am completely obsessed!
Your the Only person who does it the way I do by using a special setup bearing! Much Much better. I honed about .0005" which is the normal interference fit for a steel pressed fit part. I also have a depth gage.
All aftermarket gear sets (Richmond, US Gear, Zoom) for the most part will start off at .035 for 8.5 and 12 bolt Chevys. Run a pattern and see what you got. Make sure that the backlash is 8 to 10 max for a street gear and 6 to 8 max for a drag gear if you have a round track car you will need even more back lash 10 to 12. Your looking for a pattern to start off on the toe and run off mid tooth (the strongest part of the gear) on the drive side. Coast side will start off on the heel and end mid to lower toe of the tooth. If all that is over your head have a pro do it or you will have one noisy rear end on your hands. Gear set change outs are not for the every day backyard mechanic. That kit he has is in the $500 range and is not needed if you know what your doing. Besides the paperwork that comes with the new gear set will tell you what you need to know. Preload on the bearings is very important also street, Drag and round track all have different preloads. Why? HEAT is why. Rear ends get warm and when you have heat you have expansion. Have fun.....
28 to 32 thousands usually a good starting point on a Gm but I’m getting this tool thanks for the video I made my comment before I watched 1 min of the video I have been building diffs for 30 years and have never bought a pinion depth tool could have saved myself so much time
Thanks, great how to video to following along with the provided tool instructions. You mentioned the 1-2-3 block which is used for the alternative method of obtaining pinion depth and shim pack requirements. That way you do not have to grind bearings and spend the extra hours setting a diff up. Thanks
If you don't have the tool.look for teeth meshing in center of teeth ring gear. It may take several times assembling and disassemble .and when it is right it will sound like a precision pair of scissors when turning pinion.
I’m really happy to see this video, I’ve got a similar noise on my 85 C20 on a 14 bolt full float rear end and plan on doing repairs over the winter.
I have watched several of these and almost all are on either the GM or Ford 8.8. I guess that all the vehicles out there are either a GM or Ford. Basically what you are measuring is the distance from the center of the carrier bearings to the end of the pinion gear. I'm a retired machinist & am trying to figure out a way to measure that distance in a much simpler way than using all those gage blocks & a dial indicator. Something like a parallel bar & a depth mic. As a machinist all those gage parts seem a bit Mickey Mouse. I'll keep looking for accurate info on MoPar diffs but this is a good video.
First video on this I’ve been able to stay to the end and understand! I wish this tool was not so damn expensive for a backyard mechanic like me. I’ve tried to see if there is a loner I could get at my local automotive supply but no luck. I’m doing a Dana 30, and I’m just gonna go by the old shim stack to start with and do it the old-fashioned way with backlash and pattern measurements.
out of all the hundreds of pinion set up videos I've watched, this was shown and explained the best. ( although when you got to the maths, you lost me. should have took more notice in school)
The Block calls " 1 2 3 block", they are precision group to 1 inch 2 ich and 3 inch. And mostly it's for cheching the hight or use as of a precision spacer.
You can get different sizes as well like 2 3 4 or 3 4 6. And you can buy them from any machine shop tool supplies for cheaper prices.
Thank you for this video! I refer to it everytime i setup gears as a refresher.
I too was reading my small dial incorrectly Im glad you mentioned it.
Sharp idea honing out those old bearings & make sure it's the same OEM manufacturer as the new one. Thanks alot . Great content. Getting ready to build a GM 10 bolt as my first build & use oil on bearings to get get accurate reading.👍
thanks man i appreciate this video i bought one of these gauges at a swap meet that was very gently used and complete but didn't know how to use it till a watched this video .wish others teaching car guys would be more simple on explaining instead of trying to be funny and confusing .did my first rear diff and wallah it freaken works great
The 123 block is for measuring pinion depth without putting the pinion gear in. You put the race in, the bearing, then you put the 123 block on the bearing and measure to it and just add the 2" to the reading and that will tell you what thickness shim to use. No clue how accurate that is as it seems without the preload on the bearing, the reading may be off a bit. But ths is to keep you from having to make a setup bearing or press the bearing on and off to change the shim.
Thanks Eric, perfect timing as I am in the middle of the process. Al
That was very well explained and a great help I'm sure to anyone wanting set pinion depth. I'm going to save this just incase I need the help one day.
Well explained ,you are becoming a natural personality on film!!!
Thank you so much for this video. I've got myself a checker a while ago from Yukon and boy the instructions weren't clear. But now it all makes sense!
Thank you for the information! Rebuilding my Jeep and installing new ring and pinions in front and rear.
This video was helpful for my first rebuild on a rear diff
Great tutorial video on pinion gear depths... This is going to be my first rodeo on my rear differential build on my 94 TA..
Great Tool Eric and definitely one worth buying for someone who does rear diffs a lot !
Insane how specific differential setup is.
A lot of mechanics do it without this tool but this basically sets it up without taking it in and out repeatedly.
It’s easy once you do a few of them
In your last video when you showed this tool after getting the differential adjusted, I wished that you could make a separate video on this awesome tool & many Thanks you did😉
Very helpful information in this video👍
Stay Safe❤
The 123 block is probably to calibrate the dial indicator or to extend its reach. Take a look thru the instructions and if theres a section on calibration that's where I'd expect the 123 block to be used.
gauge blocks, got some myself for welding
Great Video...I have the YUKON Pinion tool....and the instructions were not clear....your instruction of the T&D tool..cleared up all my questions. 4 Stars !!!
I like to calibrate my tool on the work bench before putting it into the differential. This was a large enough differential to calibrate this way but with smaller differentials it's almost impossible. I also thoroughly dislike the dial gauge that comes with the kit just because the revolution counter rotates twice for the full 1" of travel. PS. That is an 1/8" Alan wrench and the 1,2,3 block can be used to extend the measurement capabilities of the tool by as much as 3".
thanks for a great explanation on the use if this tool!
Great info well explained and clear details on all of your videos I do appreciate you shearing this type of I know that you’re helping a lot of viewers like me keep up the good work
Thank you Eric I always enjoy watching your videos I am from South Africa
Hello South Africa!
You don’t need a crush sleeve for set up. Simply snug yoke nut until you get some drag ( 1/2 turn of yoke when a quick hand flick applied)
Eric. There is another way. The machined surface at the split line of the bearing caps is at the center of the axle. So I lay a flat ground bar (for example a 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide bar). You want a "ground" bar because they will usually be machined perfectly flat and square with a .005" or better tolerance. You cut a length of this bar that will span the distance between the machined surfaces of both carrier bearings. I then use a depth micrometer to measure from the bar to the face of the pinion. I then subtract the thickness of the bar (1/4" in this case) from that measurement. This will give you the pinion depth (checking distance from face of pinion to center of axle/ring gear). I think its just as accurate as these expensive tools, quicker and less math.
The split line isn't necessarily the centerline. It's probably close enough though.
@@nodriveknowitall702 If you are unsure, you can put the bearing cap on and measure the ID of the bore. Then take it off and measure from the split line to the inside of the bore. This will confirm if the split line is the centerline and if not how much you should add or subtract.
@@dennis6325 You might check all four cap fastening points. I can't guarantee that the plane made by the milled fastening points are perpendicular to the axis of pinion or parallel the axis of the carrier bearings. If you're squaring up your measuring device to these machined surfaces, you might be introducing error. I have read statements that called this into question. These may have been flukes, imagined issues, or fabrications by manufacturers of pinion depth measuring kits. After enough measurements, one might decide it's perfectly fine. I don't know. I'm just doing research right now and trying to separate wheat from chaff. I've got what the factory service manual says, what various forum members say, what some videos say, and a smidgeon of measurement consideration and machining experience. I'll be tearing apart a sterling 10.25 tomorrow, to assess further damage and get measurements before I order parts.
Good run down on this tool ,appreciate it.
A great tool, and great information. Thanks Eric !
Awesome tutorial. I needed to make a decision on which tool to buy. Looks like this is the one!
Genuine mechanic who knows what's the best way to get our car run good. Thank you for d information👍
I watch your Video. And learned How to use that gage. For sure. Thank you, Dan
Yep 1-2-3 block. I remember those from my machinist/tool maker days
Nice tool...I have found Ratech's pinion depth tools to be more than adequate/accurate for the job.
Thanks for this video it really helped me understand the dial indicator
Have this kit. Its BAD ASS!
Some differentials have the shims behind the outer race (aka "bearing cup"), between the race and the differential housing. Dana 60 is one example of this. So the process is different because the larger pinion bearing can be pressed onto the pinion shaft from the beginning and you never need to remove it. However, the smaller pinion bearing will need to removed and reassembled multiple times.
Strange Engineering likes to polish the pinion shaft on a lathe in the place where the small bearing goes so it will just slide on with a very close fit. I think that is a very good idea for multiple reasons. There is no real need for a press fit in that location on a Dana 60 partly because a Dana 60 should use only shims for setting preload, not a crush sleeve (though some OEMs might use a crush sleeve from the factory... When re-gearing the crush sleeve should be eliminated and only shims should be used). Eliminating the crush sleeve and using only shims for preload is a more reliable setup, overall.
Very helpful. Thank you. I have the tool and was unsure how to use it.
I’m just wondering if that burn on your hand will ever heal.
Love your videos
And this here kids is why you want to pay attention in math class ...... so you can build your own hotrods when you're an adult. ;-)
Don't know what you'd need a 123 block for here, but they are very useful around the shop.
The instructions that come with the kit explain the situations where you'd need the 123 block
Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to make this.
Good job I just got the yukon version of this tool and it looks the exact same with very poor instructions. So thank you
How do you know what the specs are if the pinion isn’t marked from the factory?
10:08 what a mechanics calculator should look like😂
Huh, that's odd that the manual's says to measure off the magnet.
Love the video!
the calibration tube includes the magnet thickness , You have to have something offset from the pinion face so the indicator tip will be square to the face on the gear.
@@bandaid1957 I was curios as to how compensation for the magnet was factored in. Thanks.
Pinion Wizardry! This is why I’d just pay an expert!
less fidly than using a bore gauge, where you basically have to map the whole thing.
No kidding! Me too. I got a headache during the number crunching part
how was the magnet accounted for maybe i missed it.
Very helpful video, thanks for posting.
Thanks Eric 👍😁
A good Mitutoyo depth mic would work aswell.
I spent all day learning how to use this tool and understanding Measured Housing Depths, Master Housing Dimensions, and Calibrated Depths. The long and medium extensions are calibrated to be used with the thickness of the magnetic target plate. The short extension is calibrated to the thickness of the non-magnetic target plate. So, if you eyeball up the length of the dial indicator to the center of the cross shaft, you will not get the right measurement until you add the thickness of the corresponding target plate. That threw me for a loop and I thought I had defective extensions / calibration tubes. It's part due to my OCD in double-checking stuff.
That 1-2-3 block, as others have said, is just a precision machined hunk of metal that has 1", 2" and 3" dimensions. It took me awhile to figure that out, too. 1H x 2W x 3D. The holes don't mean anything in this application.
It is used so that you don't have to utilize setup bearings to set the pinion depth.....
The markings on my pinion head face are 4.125 and a 65 number. I don't know what 65 is, and I didn't know what 4.125 was, either. It is definitely not Pinion Depth because it is roughly 2" more than it should be. I called Elite Gear (Ron's Machining Services) which is from where I got them, and he told me that those numbers don't mean anything and I should just set the pinion depth to whatever the original equipment calls for. The problem is that I cannot measure the pinion head thickness to determine that because the original pinion does not have a machined face on it to measure it from. After more brain pain in figuring this out, I discovered that 4.124 (4.125) is the Master Housing Depth. That is the distance that we want to achieve from the "face" of the installed pinion bearing (the large one) to the center of the cross pin of this tool, or I guess if you ran an solid axle all the way through the axle housing, it would be in dead center of it. In other words, the "centerline" of the installed ring gear. If that measurement is 4.135 inches instead, we need to add .010 inches of shim to get it to 4.125".
Pinion Depth is nothing more than the Master Housing Depth minus the pinion head thickness, so either measurement can be used to get the pinion set with the correct shims. All (Domestic auto?) axles will have a specific Master Housing Depth to achieve. A Chrysler 8.25 is 4.124", a Dana 30 is 3.625", Ford 8.8 is 4.415", etc. Some axles have "submodels" with option differences that will have this measurement vary.
In my case, I have the axle out of the vehicle and the pinion housing facing down so gravity works with me. You stack that 1-2-3 block on the bearing, add the target plate, (I like to push down and spin the bearing back and forth a bit to get it seated and use pressure to hold it there) then you use the dial indicator to take the measurement as described in this video. You subtract the Indicator Reading from the Calibrated Depth, add the height of the 1-2-3 block to get the Measured Housing Dimension. You subtract the master Housing Dimension from the Measured Housing Depth to get the amount of shim required. If you can find a shim to put behind the outer pinion bearing race instead, I don't see why you can't do that. You can much more easily remove the outer race than remove the inner race from the pinion shaft if you want to re-check it.
I'm pretty sure that Ron's Machining Services was incorrect and that number on the pinion head *DOES* mean something. It is a helluva coincidence that it matches the Master Housing Depth... within .001" which I am pretty sure is well within tolerances when setting up a pinion. Instead of marking it with Pinion Depth, it has been marked with the master housing dimension.
Anyways, I hope this is right. My break is over and I am heading out to the garage to put it together based on what I just ranted about. If I am wrong, I'll have to come back to delete this comment.
He has the D
Force !!!
Rear diff and transmission are the only two things I haven't rebuilt
Not worth doing yourself in my opinion.
They used to rebuild everything. Steering box, alternator, distributor, probably even radios.
Super helpful! Thank you!
Very interesting clip 👍! As a fellow RUclipsr, I am on the lookout for fresh ideas! Nice Job!
That tool is pretty slick. Big time saver! Well worth the dough if you've got to do more than 1.
First time I've seen one used. Thanks, Eric! 👍🍻
Eric did good 👍 ... Thank you!
Is the pinion depth calculated being measured from the center line of the carrier bearings? in other words the face of the pinion is x.xx" from the carrier center line?
funny when you said timkin and toya I thought you said tonka like tonka toys. lol took me a minute to register that one
GREAT VIDEO, THANK YOU
Informative. Thanks!
Great video and tool.
Some pinions have a small step up on the face of the pinion where you put the magnet. Is the measurement taken from the raised center portion or from the edge, which is lower?
Gotta get me one of those
Only cost ya $500!
Very good explanation. How might I get my hands on that tool? Thanks
That works pretty accurate but I went by the other specs because I couldn't afford 500 bucks or more for a tool I was going to use twice maybe if that. I went with the teeth pattern and back lash. But I think this tool would save u time if u did this for a living.
I wondered what happened to the calculator I bought in 1979 lol 😆
It's weird to see Eric without gloves
Correct me if Im wrong, but I'm assuming that the "mystery block with holes" 0:44 seems to me like its an afterthought - aka they put it there at the last minute... Notice how the padding is crudely cut compared to the other pieces. It seems out of place; somewhere in the corner shoved... Just my opinion 🧐😉
As a machinist I hate to say....that chinese indicator is worth about $5
Go to a quality machine shop supplier and get top notch Starret indicators and 1-2-3 blocks for less than half the price. A top of the line Interapid indicator is about $100.
What about the magnet thickness you put on the pinion?
This guy in the video is full of shit the magnet has to be figured in
Thanks for this easy understanding video. I have a question. Why did you use the old shim as you measured .011 so you should remove the old shim and install a .011 shim only ?
Am i wrong ?
I’ve turned into the diff guy at my shop and with as many diffs as we’re doing I need to get this. Could you elaborate on what the purpose of the magnet is? My guess is that it is used because the center line of the pinion does not match up with the canter line of the tool/carrier, which is the nature of it. Do you have to compensate for the magnet in your measurements? Thanks for the video. I need to get one. It would save so much time.
Hi. Am I missing something. You appeared to measure to the magnet. If so you need to take its thickness into account. Forgive me if I've mis understood.
So the magnate is a part of the zero when calibrated
Eric thanks for the videos,as always great to watch and educational, you always do it by the book but only one problem you are putting on the kilos just like me LOL
COVID hasn't helped. Thanks for the comment.
The block is called 1.2.3 block you should abom79
Hi Eric I have been working on my granddaughter’s 2007 Mustang 5 speed trans, 4.0 Liter motor with an 7.5 rear differential. Rear seal leaked out the fluid and we had to change out the gears. The old gears was 331 ratio and the new gears are 345 ratio and the pinion stamp is 2.323. Using a pinion depth tool like you used in your video. 2.500 pin the measurement is .266 =2.234 and pinion numbers are 2.323 - 2.234 = .089. No sims under the rear pinion bearing. What did I do wrong? I keep watching your video over and over again to see what I missed. I have worked on differential before but is one has beat me up. I hope you can tell me what to do.
Thanks
Gary
To be clear you measure off the magnet do you take magnet thickness into consideration