My fav chapter in the book is when he goes on a beach side vacation with his girlfriend. Pages of beautifully written descriptions of the beauty of the sky and ocean. Wonderful words about his romance with his girl. The chapter ends with Patrick walking the beach alone and he decides to eat a dead jellyfish. Sums up the whole book.
His routine reminds me of some of these ASMR overconsumption influencers with 20 types of each skin care product perfectly organized in drawers. Or the people who move food from one container to another so their fridge can be aesthetic. This has aged like fine wine.
Yeah even working class people act like that these days due to social media. They'll try to hide all flaws (unless they're trendy), post pictures of unusual/expensive products they own to look cool and loudly declare their support of causes they couldn't give a shit about. I really hate the modern world.
@@Americansikkunt That type will be anything or do anything to elevate themselves above you , it'a a power play not a conviction , that was part of the message of the movie , like that way to "sophistication" through consumption
@@mirko1989 what’s the difference between REAL SJWs? They both virtue signal for status points…. They both don’t really care or have stakes in whatever they pretend to….
19:24 And when the rich tourist class seeks the most real, gritty, authentic back area, they're shocked when it's not civilized and horrified when there's real danger. e.g. Everest mountain climbing should never offer any real danger. Those are fake corpses, right? The darkest pits of the backstreets at night should be charming and exhilarating, never dangerous or deadly. Nothing bad can happen in this experimental submarine that visits the Titanic, it's an experience of a lifetime!
@@m420-nd1ifI get your sentiment, but saying that backstreets simply are not dangerous in most countries is objectively untrue. Backstreets can be somewhat identified as arteries for local gangs to traffic or pedal their goods. I have been in unlit backstreets where stabbings and murders have previously occurred in western countries, and have been stalked, and threatened in them as well. Have also walked past backstreets in India where visible child slavery rings have been displaying their wares. Chains and all. To be fair the idea that backstreets are only for evil doing is also false, as they are used by everyone, especially those from lower socio economic classes. It's not exclusively one or the other, however it's easy to imagine that they can be viewed through an "exhilarating" lens by the cloistered upper class
Another amazing analysis. Huge fan of American Psycho and I think it keeps aging like fine wine. While it could often be considered bizarre, funny and over the top back when it came out, it grows more and more real and frightening as time goes by.
The thing about learning and understanding the world is it is a constant process. You don't just understand something - you can understand it more and more, the deeper you dive in it.
Bateman acting up feels like Neo waking up in the capsule, and at the moment he tries to reach for the membrane he just wakes up back in the matrix emptier, more unhinged and increasingly nihilistic. That was a picture of Cosette above his toilet wasn’t it?
Ηey, peanut butter soup with smoked duck sounds awesome! And what's wrong with salmon, raspberry and guacamole? The point is not that the food is garbage, but that it's needlessly curated and consumed by people who do not appreciate its finesse. Other than that, spot on!
I just watched this movie this past weekend, and I’m throughly confused why the “Alpha” or “Sigma” men’s movement insist on using Patrick Bateman as their idol. Patrick Bateman is one of the most insecure characters I’ve seen. He literally tells his fiancé, “I want to fit in!!!” when she correctly points out that he hates his job and the people he works with. The fact that Bateman losses his sh!t when another coworker’s card is better than his just adds to the insecurity that festers inside Patrick Bateman.
He's a real cool guy and he's a hero of mine Travis, Rhinehart, rolled into one cute son Less than zero, a grotesque nightmare Subtly disturbing like normal behaviour
@@curiositycloset2359 How? The whole idea of these “alpha” or “sigma” bros is that they don’t follow anyone and f**k those who conform. Yet, they idolize Patrick Bateman, a guy who does nothing but follow trends for no reason other than they are popular. He literally admits to his fiancé, “I want to fit in”. Further proving that money doesn’t solve the issue of a severe lack of character.
Because, they share his insecurities. He, like them, wants to fit in, wants to be successful, want to be PERCEIVED as being successful and part of the in-group, even if he doesn't actually share the in-group's values. They're all a bunch of insecure children who think wearing the mask of an authoritative, powerful individual who can surf the waves of culture and social acceptability while also thinking they're better than everyone else under the mask.
American Psycho: to this day the only book I've ever bought (out of 400+) that came wrapped in plastic, denying any would-be reader a sneak peak before purchase.
Bateman gets emotional when talking about Whitney Houston as he identifies "The Greatest Love Of All" being about his own lonely narcissisim. The movie is endlessly rewatchable, every scene is a banger.
Hey! At 2:47 it is the unforgettable late great Hungarian actor Péter Haumann! Had to check on this: the scene is from a 1977 Hungarian TV film "A bosszú" aka The Revenge which adapted one story from within the book Notes from Underground. Nice research for this v essay!
This is a brilliant and insightful piece. I've always loved this movie, having seen it at the cinema in my youthful days, I read the book because I wanted to know more ( back then, I thought, I wanted to know the gory details, but know I realise I was looking for the meaning behind the book). So thank you for creating this x 💚 Loving your work Brother x
I just finally watched this movie after hearing about it for so many years and it just hit me that he doesn't care about the art he just looks at himself in the picture and not the actual artwork 6:10
I think his taste in art and music are entirely performative. He likely believes having a passion for the arts makes him seem more human, so he's adopted it as a part of his mask.
Here’s my read. We spend our lives told that what is inside is what really matters. Inside Bateman is a psychopath but on the outside he isn’t. He doesn’t kill anyone. He supports charity. So really, is the surface more important? If that isn’t a comment on the 80s, what is?
no such thing as the conception of any abstractions that is the 'pathys' & any Personality disorder... especially the abstraction of 'Personality' itself.
Dostoyevsky's frequently hilarious, yeah. He's brilliant at portraying people being nuts and takes a lot of (acknowledged) inspiration from the also very funny Gogol.
I allways had this feeling that bale took inspiration from data from star trek. The way he speeks sounds very similur. Or the way he acts is like when data trys to hard to act human in the show. Very simular.
Bateman lacks the redemption that Raskolnikov experienced; perhaps the realization of his own inhumanity drives him to madness. He seems to hope that his crimes will make him stand out amid the nihilism of his Yuppie colleagues, yet he blends seamlessly into their corporate inhumanity. Bateman is somewhat aware of the absurdity of his situation, a clarity that emerges during his moments of mental breakdown. As he struggles to maintain the social mask he has worn for so long, the resulting tension ultimately drives him to madness.
What so great about this is that it depicts the number one misconception about narcissism so accurately.... that he "simply is not there" Most people think narcissism is having a huge ego and being self obsessed. While it does appear this way on the outside, what's really going on internally is a lack of a true self entirely. These people essentially got stuck in their psychological development somewhere around the age of 3, maybe a little higher, and never build a healthy sense of who they are. This leaves them constantly trying to fill the void with external feedback, otherwise known as narcissistic supply. When this coincides with psychopathy, you get something like a Patrick Bateman. Truly terrifying! Sadly, we actually promote these people in this society, both in business and government. The rate of mental illness in positions of power is almost an order of magnitude higher than in the general population. We need to form something like a Turing test for these conditions and have some way to keep them out of power... Potentially, we could use language model AI because language is the best window into their minds. This will be tricky, as there will obviously be resistance from those who already wield such power, but we must find a way! They're already causing so much damage to society, people, the planet, and just life in general.
@Nylon_riot while I did really enjoy that show, I can't remember a whole ton about it... I think it was more focused on psychopathic traits than narcissistic ones. In the case of narcissism, it's something created at a very young age by an abusive parent, often the mother. They essentially rob the child of having any chance of developing a healthy self image. It's actually quite sad when you think about it. Being a true narcissist would be incredibly painful. While it isn't really possible to empathize with them (as normal people can't really even imagine this condition in any real way), I think we should still sympathize and think strategically how to integrate them into society. In the right situation, they can actually be good people in many regards. I think professor Sam Vaknin is a great example of this. He has revolutionized the study of narcissism while being a "recovered" one himself. Watch him in interviews and it's quite interesting to know his past and see just how well he's adapted
I actually disagree. I think this movie is deep enough to have multiple layers of meaning. For instance whether or not he killed anyone is an interesting and meaning question, but there is a deeper meaning as well that it actually doesnt matter if he did. The world doesnt care
Probably the best video of yours ive seen. Im also a big fan of notes from underground but although ive seen the film and read the book of american psycho I never quite managed to marry the two together. Really good example and i think the intro from notes from underground are useful here where Dostoyevski says that the underground man is a necessary output of the social system that exists. You also use the word hyperreal which i take as you tipping your hat to the work of Baudrillard who argues that the mass production society encourages people to live what is nearly all a simulation of what might be considered a real life. That the original, true ground of what is aimed at is replaced in peoples minds with a particularly attractive map. The classic example is doing things in your spare time that make you look happy and fulfilled when you post them on social media but which are actually boring or miserable when you actually do them. Or living in a house that LOOKS cosy and twee in photographs from outside but which are cold and dismal to live in. As you noted in the video, the aim of marketing is not to teach people what to want, but how to want.
"Cuz the underground man don't think like the rest of society. Erry body else is just fumble-fucking their way through life and never asking the big questions. But for our boy, dat shit's the Dank. And if that's the way you wanna roll, you gotta open your eyes so wide to the world around you that it hurts. If you can do that, you're playing a whole other game, B. Dat pain when you're beefin' with reality and git yo shit wrecked creates consciousness." -THUG NOTES
The most disturbing point that I saw was that his punishment continually eluded him, even when he sought it, and it came down to his own identity being disrurbingly threatened, even before and after his deeds
"when everything is commodified reality itself can decay." its like when art is commodified.. it loses it's inherent value and becomes a corrupt version of itself
I always think of US being such a privileged society that just run into driving the world at it's feet. It's like children who don' even realize that they are the peak rich people of the poverty class that run on the suffering of the dominated countries but live into such a poverty that question even poverty patterns into itself and don't see the REAL poverty and desperation of the general population of the world.
Countries suffering are their own faults. Several poor countries have resources but consistently allow themselves to be sold some versions of equity for all.
I thought the real estate agent at the end was his handler. I’m thinking that his father knew how his son Patrick was. Patrick was his sole heir. I think the old man figured his son only deletes insignificant people and lowlifes. He assigned certain individuals to keep Patrick from totally crashing out thus bringing down the Bateman empire with him. Just my opinion.
I suspect there's no definitive answer, that the author intentionally made the resolution-or lack thereof-ambiguous, to leave us adrift, mirroring Patrick's state of mind at the conclusion. You can put forward compelling arguments both for and against the veracity of Patrick's murderous acts, but ultimately, this will lead you nowhere because all we are made privy to is events from the perspective of an unreliable narrator.
Great call back! I'm surprised you didn't add a little George Price and Century of the self commentary. Next is fight Club, a modern re-imagination of Walden!
OH SNAP also a track off Information Society's iconic, cheeseball cyberpunk album, Think, is played in the club scene. Of course another track from that album, Mirrorshades (a personal favorite), starts with a half-spoken "Here are a few notes from the underground, load them at your pleasure." I was halfway through the first sentence when i realized what i was doing. Of course i can't resist spreading my unironic (if not un-alloyed) love of cheeseball cyberpunk and cyberpunk as a style or aesthetic, but i also can't skip a chance to bring it up as the foundation for a real philosophy, a new Cynicism. We were done a better deal by Gibson than they had been by Antisthenes. I'm not being referential enough to products and trivialities for this to actually be a joke, or to be an effective one. They looked over their shoulder for an 'exit' sign.
Great video! ..TEXT MENTIONED include, -FYODOR DOSTOEVSKY: CRIME and PUNISHMENT -Nikolai Chernyshevsky: What Is to Be Done? - THE TOURIST by DEAN MACCANNELL.. A NEW THEORY OF THE LEISURE CLASS WITH A NEW INTRODUCTION - Notes from underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky -AMERICAN PYCHO BY BRETT EASTON ELLIS
The yuppie montage has a digitally placed photo of Ronald Reagan inserted - it is not in the original footage. In addition, although It may be easy to conflate Reagan's limited government philosophy with emerging neocon psychopathy - they were quite distinct from one another.
@@stefanjohnsson5661 One of them wants limited government and the other wants endless expansionist government and total power over the individual. The first neocons larped as conservatives, now they larp as liberals. I am kind of stunned you don't know this.
@@rahkuaschountI didn’t say there wasn’t a difference. I would argue that Reaganomics was the beginning of the Christian right and the trickel down economy that conservatives use to get poor people to vote against their own interests.
The food scene reminded me of the weird deconstruction that was Nouvelle cuisine. Raspberry coulis, reimagining and deconstructed a Philly roll. Thought he was poking on the ‘refinined to base ingredients’ that contemporary chefs were playing with. I’m surprise didn’t see a veloute chicken aspic.
The movie is a stinging indictment of Reaganism...and in the end, Reagan, many Reaganists, and Bateman get away with everything. #mergersAndAcquisitions
Congrats for noticing! 💪😎✌️Writing is writing, yet some storytelling techniques differ from others. And in their subtlety, sometimes certain aspects and thematic underpinnings can be lost. Direction and Reflection are both key. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
I think another interesting exploration into this film is its distinctly pre-9/11 view of American society. We were so insulated by our privilege that the idea of actual substantial retribution at the hands of those we had used and disposed of for decades that the very notion of accountability had all but vanished from the minds of most urban professionals. (Also, thanks for teaching me something I never would have thought to look up: the acronym at the root of yuppy!)
i don't know why, but i've always known it came from young urban professional... certainly, it was from the media i consumed because my parents are not native english speakers
I read the book fairly recently (That was an experience) and it definitely affected how I look at the film. One thing that stuck out to me was book Patrick’s commentary on people not understanding him. Failing to “capture his essence” as he says at one point. Movie Patrick’s 2nd plea to his lawyer feels like a desperate desire to be seen, which of course doesn’t happen and he’s left with the knowledge that he could do all these atrocious acts, announce it, but have no one really bring him to task. Therefore, meaningless.
Patrick and those around him are "simply not there" both on the inside and on the outside. They've identified entirely with what's on and above the surface while simultaneously regarding and treating one another instrumentally and conforming to the external values and expectations of their society to such an extreme that the possibility of developing an identity that might help differentiate oneself from another has been utterly extinguished. Given that Paul Allen and Marcus Halberstram mirror the outward appearance and behaviours of Patrick Bateman, for all intents and purposes, they are one and the same. They are unwitting victims of their own success at the game of "fitting in". They've managed to fit in so successfully as to become almost indistinguishable from one another, and effectively interchangeable. You could swap one out for the other and most people won't even notice; and if somebody were to notice, chances are they probably wouldn't really care. Most days of the week, Marcus and Patrick are essentially synonymous identities. By conforming to such an extreme, Patrick and his peers are left battling over the most trivial, minor and oftentimes absurd distinctions, as they each attempt to differentiate and elevate themselves above one another: a slightly better haircut, a slightly better dinner reservation, a slightly better tan, a slightly better embellishment on a business card, and so on.
It's one of my favorite movies and seems like a perfect reflection of American society, culture, and capitalism. It's rumored that he used Tom Cruise as a template.
@@Watch-0w1 No way, really? I never knew that people with their basic needs met could still be unhappy 🙄 You said you knew someone was going to bring up homelessness, poverty, and money equaling security. So, like, you do understand that money can bring happiness. You just wanna think all theoretically about a "what if" situation that will never happen. Let's live in reality, yeah?
Having both read the book and seen the film, which was a rather precise adaptation of the book, with Bale a brilliant casting choice, I came to the conclusion that Bateman simply hallucinated his crimes.
Yes. The chainsaw murder was especially revealing in that it would be impossible to drop a running chainsaw on somebody and cut them - when you let go, the saw idles. And the police car blowing up because it was shot with a pistol. Bateman was just nuts, but it didn't matter because nobody was paying attention. It's like Bateman was the only person sane enough to have a toxic reaction to a completely pointless society. Everybody else were NPCs.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Go to buyraycon.com/bauer for 20-50% off site-wide. Brought to you by Raycon.
Glad to see you getting sponsors, keep up the good work, Jared!
Consume. No ethical social commentary under capitalism, amirite?
Raycon, really? The lowest quality earphones you can get. Stay away from people who promote this crap.
My fav chapter in the book is when he goes on a beach side vacation with his girlfriend. Pages of beautifully written descriptions of the beauty of the sky and ocean. Wonderful words about his romance with his girl. The chapter ends with Patrick walking the beach alone and he decides to eat a dead jellyfish. Sums up the whole book.
His routine reminds me of some of these ASMR overconsumption influencers with 20 types of each skin care product perfectly organized in drawers. Or the people who move food from one container to another so their fridge can be aesthetic. This has aged like fine wine.
Hey dont lump a dude with ocd who likes his groceries symmetrical in with all those guys
Morons of today are the laughing stock before even being born... as it has been from the beginning of times...
Yeah even working class people act like that these days due to social media. They'll try to hide all flaws (unless they're trendy), post pictures of unusual/expensive products they own to look cool and loudly declare their support of causes they couldn't give a shit about. I really hate the modern world.
@jrojala prohectung what exactly? A disorder i acknowledged having? Lol
That moral hygiene point is universal among finance bros , they will ruin 1000 families and then lecture a guy on a street for saying a slur .
And tankies!!!!
It's about the facade. The modern American way.
That confuses me. Were yuppies SJWs?
@@Americansikkunt That type will be anything or do anything to elevate themselves above you , it'a a power play not a conviction , that was part of the message of the movie , like that way to "sophistication" through consumption
@@mirko1989 what’s the difference between REAL SJWs?
They both virtue signal for status points….
They both don’t really care or have stakes in whatever they pretend to….
I would like to watch this, but I can't. I have to return some videotapes!
I have to go to the dry cleaners to wash some sheets I accidently poured wine onto...🙄
💀💀💀💀💀
I’m waiting for Paul Allen’s analysis video.
@@gast9374 dont forget to re-wind!
19:24
And when the rich tourist class seeks the most real, gritty, authentic back area, they're shocked when it's not civilized and horrified when there's real danger.
e.g. Everest mountain climbing should never offer any real danger. Those are fake corpses, right?
The darkest pits of the backstreets at night should be charming and exhilarating, never dangerous or deadly.
Nothing bad can happen in this experimental submarine that visits the Titanic, it's an experience of a lifetime!
Backstreets are not dangerous in most countries.... that sounds american
@@m420-nd1ifI get your sentiment, but saying that backstreets simply are not dangerous in most countries is objectively untrue. Backstreets can be somewhat identified as arteries for local gangs to traffic or pedal their goods.
I have been in unlit backstreets where stabbings and murders have previously occurred in western countries, and have been stalked, and threatened in them as well. Have also walked past backstreets in India where visible child slavery rings have been displaying their wares. Chains and all.
To be fair the idea that backstreets are only for evil doing is also false, as they are used by everyone, especially those from lower socio economic classes.
It's not exclusively one or the other, however it's easy to imagine that they can be viewed through an "exhilarating" lens by the cloistered upper class
@@m420-nd1if Naivety or utter stupidity?
I personally think being turned into red toothpaste in a microsecond is an experience of a lifetime!
The advertising in the video really takes the message to another level lol
ikr
capitalism owns us all in the end
gotta keep the lights on. we're all slaves!!!!
i was today years old when i learned 'yuppie' meant something other than pretentious ostentatious vacuous a-hole.
Youth urban hippie?
@@Watch-0w1Young urban professional
oh, it still means that...
YUPPIE = young upwardly mobile urban Professional. Two yuppies with no kids were DINKS. Double income no kids
Another amazing analysis. Huge fan of American Psycho and I think it keeps aging like fine wine. While it could often be considered bizarre, funny and over the top back when it came out, it grows more and more real and frightening as time goes by.
Our collective apathy keeps this film relevant generation to generation .
He was reciting the music reviews verbatim
Why did we all listen to Jared for all those years at Wisecrack when he didn't understand any film he's seen until recently smh?
He means he unlocked a new meaning
those title really seem a bit click-baity...
Cause he’s a god damn angel that’s why
The thing about learning and understanding the world is it is a constant process.
You don't just understand something - you can understand it more and more, the deeper you dive in it.
lmao
Jared's takes on film and books are just a treat
Let’s see if Paul Allen finally understands American Psycho 24 years later.
Oh my god, he even has a watermark
the fact that this movie has completely been co opted by the people its making fun of is legit the most perfect thing to happen to it
Same thing applies to the Matrix
Bateman acting up feels like Neo waking up in the capsule, and at the moment he tries to reach for the membrane he just wakes up back in the matrix emptier, more unhinged and increasingly nihilistic.
That was a picture of Cosette above his toilet wasn’t it?
Ηey, peanut butter soup with smoked duck sounds awesome! And what's wrong with salmon, raspberry and guacamole? The point is not that the food is garbage, but that it's needlessly curated and consumed by people who do not appreciate its finesse.
Other than that, spot on!
You should try the sea-urchin ceviche.
Agree with you. They are taking the dish for granted and only ordering them to appear refined.
I just caught the “mashed squash” for the first time 😂
I just watched this movie this past weekend, and I’m throughly confused why the “Alpha” or “Sigma” men’s movement insist on using Patrick Bateman as their idol. Patrick Bateman is one of the most insecure characters I’ve seen. He literally tells his fiancé, “I want to fit in!!!” when she correctly points out that he hates his job and the people he works with. The fact that Bateman losses his sh!t when another coworker’s card is better than his just adds to the insecurity that festers inside Patrick Bateman.
He's a real cool guy and he's a hero of mine
Travis, Rhinehart, rolled into one cute son
Less than zero, a grotesque nightmare
Subtly disturbing like normal behaviour
I think you're missing the point.
@@curiositycloset2359 How? The whole idea of these “alpha” or “sigma” bros is that they don’t follow anyone and f**k those who conform. Yet, they idolize Patrick Bateman, a guy who does nothing but follow trends for no reason other than they are popular. He literally admits to his fiancé, “I want to fit in”. Further proving that money doesn’t solve the issue of a severe lack of character.
Because, they share his insecurities. He, like them, wants to fit in, wants to be successful, want to be PERCEIVED as being successful and part of the in-group, even if he doesn't actually share the in-group's values.
They're all a bunch of insecure children who think wearing the mask of an authoritative, powerful individual who can surf the waves of culture and social acceptability while also thinking they're better than everyone else under the mask.
@@TheGoIsWin21 lol no.
the idea of a yuppie even knowing what hard work looks and feels like and being able to in fact work hard is the best joke of this entire segment.
The way you describe things and back them up with sources and new talking points is truly incredible. Amazing video(s)!
American Psycho: to this day the only book I've ever bought (out of 400+) that came wrapped in plastic, denying any would-be reader a sneak peak before purchase.
Crazy just opened RUclips and was given a gift
The call to the lawyer is some of the best acting out there.
Just found this channel less than a week ago and I’m becoming a big fan.
Bateman gets emotional when talking about Whitney Houston as he identifies "The Greatest Love Of All" being about his own lonely narcissisim. The movie is endlessly rewatchable, every scene is a banger.
So good to hear you speak about literature and philosophical takes again.
What I recall most about the book is pages of clothing description. It was so mind numbing I yearned for the violence
My key takeaway from the novel: Evian. Evian water takes away any impurities from last night’s excess. Evian. Evian water.
Hey! At 2:47 it is the unforgettable late great Hungarian actor Péter Haumann! Had to check on this: the scene is from a 1977 Hungarian TV film "A bosszú" aka The Revenge which adapted one story from within the book Notes from Underground. Nice research for this v essay!
This is a brilliant and insightful piece. I've always loved this movie, having seen it at the cinema in my youthful days, I read the book because I wanted to know more ( back then, I thought, I wanted to know the gory details, but know I realise I was looking for the meaning behind the book).
So thank you for creating this x 💚
Loving your work Brother x
I just finally watched this movie after hearing about it for so many years and it just hit me that he doesn't care about the art he just looks at himself in the picture and not the actual artwork 6:10
Yeah, his true passion is returning video tapes.
This is happening right now in California
And it’s Les Miserables!! Such great details
I think his taste in art and music are entirely performative. He likely believes having a passion for the arts makes him seem more human, so he's adopted it as a part of his mask.
Such neat analysis. Thanks ❤
The ad part was a good homage for the opening scene of American Psycho.
Excellent breakdown, thank you.
Here’s my read. We spend our lives told that what is inside is what really matters. Inside Bateman is a psychopath but on the outside he isn’t. He doesn’t kill anyone. He supports charity. So really, is the surface more important? If that isn’t a comment on the 80s, what is?
no such thing as the conception of any abstractions that is the 'pathys' & any Personality disorder... especially the abstraction of 'Personality' itself.
oh africa, brave africa- it was a laugh riot
There should be a spiritual sequel starring an influencer who embodies the same kind of degeneracy as Bateman
Dostoyevsky's frequently hilarious, yeah. He's brilliant at portraying people being nuts and takes a lot of (acknowledged) inspiration from the also very funny Gogol.
I allways had this feeling that bale took inspiration from data from star trek. The way he speeks sounds very similur. Or the way he acts is like when data trys to hard to act human in the show. Very simular.
First time on your channel - this was a great breakdown. Good stuff, I'll be back.
This feels much like old school wisecrack...I didn't realize how much I missed this...
NO No No just enough with the past was better BS
Hated him in shaft. Thats how good i felt he played his character.
Outstanding, as always! This movie reminds me of Eliot's The Waste Land.
Bret Easton Ellis indicated that Bateman emerged from his sense of dislocation in NYC.
This movie is so layered that 24 years later we're still finding new gems
Sitting at a lakeside bench with your laptop and your dog. That’s all I need.
Yoo!! What Went Wrong podcast! I love them!! So glad to see some recognition for their work.
I have had this on my mind lately a lot.
Great video to great need!
Bateman lacks the redemption that Raskolnikov experienced; perhaps the realization of his own inhumanity drives him to madness. He seems to hope that his crimes will make him stand out amid the nihilism of his Yuppie colleagues, yet he blends seamlessly into their corporate inhumanity. Bateman is somewhat aware of the absurdity of his situation, a clarity that emerges during his moments of mental breakdown. As he struggles to maintain the social mask he has worn for so long, the resulting tension ultimately drives him to madness.
'inhumanity' no such thing... you're too superficial.
What so great about this is that it depicts the number one misconception about narcissism so accurately.... that he "simply is not there"
Most people think narcissism is having a huge ego and being self obsessed.
While it does appear this way on the outside, what's really going on internally is a lack of a true self entirely.
These people essentially got stuck in their psychological development somewhere around the age of 3, maybe a little higher, and never build a healthy sense of who they are.
This leaves them constantly trying to fill the void with external feedback, otherwise known as narcissistic supply.
When this coincides with psychopathy, you get something like a Patrick Bateman.
Truly terrifying!
Sadly, we actually promote these people in this society, both in business and government.
The rate of mental illness in positions of power is almost an order of magnitude higher than in the general population.
We need to form something like a Turing test for these conditions and have some way to keep them out of power...
Potentially, we could use language model AI because language is the best window into their minds.
This will be tricky, as there will obviously be resistance from those who already wield such power, but we must find a way!
They're already causing so much damage to society, people, the planet, and just life in general.
The TV show Dexter is the perfect analogy for how narcissistists are created and operate.
@Nylon_riot while I did really enjoy that show, I can't remember a whole ton about it...
I think it was more focused on psychopathic traits than narcissistic ones.
In the case of narcissism, it's something created at a very young age by an abusive parent, often the mother.
They essentially rob the child of having any chance of developing a healthy self image.
It's actually quite sad when you think about it.
Being a true narcissist would be incredibly painful.
While it isn't really possible to empathize with them (as normal people can't really even imagine this condition in any real way), I think we should still sympathize and think strategically how to integrate them into society.
In the right situation, they can actually be good people in many regards.
I think professor Sam Vaknin is a great example of this.
He has revolutionized the study of narcissism while being a "recovered" one himself.
Watch him in interviews and it's quite interesting to know his past and see just how well he's adapted
One of the best RUclips comments, put it in the hall
This movie is so misunderstood by its own audience it makes me question religions with canon scriptures
I actually disagree. I think this movie is deep enough to have multiple layers of meaning.
For instance whether or not he killed anyone is an interesting and meaning question, but there is a deeper meaning as well that it actually doesnt matter if he did. The world doesnt care
This is healthy questioning
@@trequor yes but I'm guessing what OP meant by "its own audience" is "guys who think bateman is cool"
@@synmad3638 I dont think those guys watched the movie or know the context of the Bateman memes.
@@synmad3638the "literally me" crowd.
Probably the best video of yours ive seen. Im also a big fan of notes from underground but although ive seen the film and read the book of american psycho I never quite managed to marry the two together. Really good example and i think the intro from notes from underground are useful here where Dostoyevski says that the underground man is a necessary output of the social system that exists. You also use the word hyperreal which i take as you tipping your hat to the work of Baudrillard who argues that the mass production society encourages people to live what is nearly all a simulation of what might be considered a real life. That the original, true ground of what is aimed at is replaced in peoples minds with a particularly attractive map. The classic example is doing things in your spare time that make you look happy and fulfilled when you post them on social media but which are actually boring or miserable when you actually do them. Or living in a house that LOOKS cosy and twee in photographs from outside but which are cold and dismal to live in. As you noted in the video, the aim of marketing is not to teach people what to want, but how to want.
"Cuz the underground man don't think like the rest of society. Erry body else is just fumble-fucking their way through life and never asking the big questions. But for our boy, dat shit's the Dank. And if that's the way you wanna roll, you gotta open your eyes so wide to the world around you that it hurts. If you can do that, you're playing a whole other game, B. Dat pain when you're beefin' with reality and git yo shit wrecked creates consciousness." -THUG NOTES
Epically good series
@@blackedmirror5073 Modern Wisecrack would probably get a brain hemorrhage if somebody presented the concept of Thug Notes to them today.
@CountCocofang are you saying wisecrack is stupid now
@CountCocofang are you saying wisecrack is stupid now
@CountCocofang are you saying wisecrack is stupid now
The most disturbing point that I saw was that his punishment continually eluded him, even when he sought it, and it came down to his own identity being disrurbingly threatened, even before and after his deeds
Very nice deep dive! Thank you for this!
"when everything is commodified reality itself can decay." its like when art is commodified.. it loses it's inherent value and becomes a corrupt version of itself
Great work on this one!
I always think of US being such a privileged society that just run into driving the world at it's feet. It's like children who don' even realize that they are the peak rich people of the poverty class that run on the suffering of the dominated countries but live into such a poverty that question even poverty patterns into itself and don't see the REAL poverty and desperation of the general population of the world.
Countries suffering are their own faults. Several poor countries have resources but consistently allow themselves to be sold some versions of equity for all.
Your expression of thoughts renders them no less intelligible,
I never made the connection between Dostoyevsky and this movie, even though I love both. Thank you!
I thought the real estate agent at the end was his handler. I’m thinking that his father knew how his son Patrick was. Patrick was his sole heir. I think the old man figured his son only deletes insignificant people and lowlifes. He assigned certain individuals to keep Patrick from totally crashing out thus bringing down the Bateman empire with him. Just my opinion.
Hmmmmm, interesting. He's not the sole heir though, Sean from "the rules of attraction" is his little brother.
@@jakeshockley2735 Okay. ✅
I suspect there's no definitive answer, that the author intentionally made the resolution-or lack thereof-ambiguous, to leave us adrift, mirroring Patrick's state of mind at the conclusion.
You can put forward compelling arguments both for and against the veracity of Patrick's murderous acts, but ultimately, this will lead you nowhere because all we are made privy to is events from the perspective of an unreliable narrator.
Great call back! I'm surprised you didn't add a little George Price and Century of the self commentary.
Next is fight Club, a modern re-imagination of Walden!
But what is with all the video tapes he had to return?
the Underground quote in the beginning is like a key to understanding the book.
OH SNAP also a track off Information Society's iconic, cheeseball cyberpunk album, Think, is played in the club scene. Of course another track from that album, Mirrorshades (a personal favorite), starts with a half-spoken "Here are a few notes from the underground, load them at your pleasure." I was halfway through the first sentence when i realized what i was doing. Of course i can't resist spreading my unironic (if not un-alloyed) love of cheeseball cyberpunk and cyberpunk as a style or aesthetic, but i also can't skip a chance to bring it up as the foundation for a real philosophy, a new Cynicism. We were done a better deal by Gibson than they had been by Antisthenes. I'm not being referential enough to products and trivialities for this to actually be a joke, or to be an effective one. They looked over their shoulder for an 'exit' sign.
Great video!
..TEXT MENTIONED include,
-FYODOR DOSTOEVSKY: CRIME and PUNISHMENT
-Nikolai Chernyshevsky:
What Is to Be Done?
- THE TOURIST by DEAN MACCANNELL.. A NEW THEORY OF THE LEISURE CLASS WITH A NEW INTRODUCTION
- Notes from underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
-AMERICAN PYCHO
BY BRETT EASTON ELLIS
It's crazy to think the movie "The Rules of Attraction" is a continuation of the Bateman family
Why is that "crazy"?
The yuppie montage has a digitally placed photo of Ronald Reagan inserted - it is not in the original footage. In addition, although It may be easy to conflate Reagan's limited government philosophy with emerging neocon psychopathy - they were quite distinct from one another.
How are they distinct for one another?
@@stefanjohnsson5661 One of them wants limited government and the other wants endless expansionist government and total power over the individual. The first neocons larped as conservatives, now they larp as liberals. I am kind of stunned you don't know this.
@@rahkuaschountI didn’t say there wasn’t a difference. I would argue that Reaganomics was the beginning of the Christian right and the trickel down economy that conservatives use to get poor people to vote against their own interests.
The food scene reminded me of the weird deconstruction that was Nouvelle cuisine. Raspberry coulis, reimagining and deconstructed a Philly roll. Thought he was poking on the ‘refinined to base ingredients’ that contemporary chefs were playing with. I’m surprise didn’t see a veloute chicken aspic.
This is my favorite movie of all time
In Bateman’s world nothing has intrinsic value, only instrumental value.
The movie is a stinging indictment of Reaganism...and in the end, Reagan, many Reaganists, and Bateman get away with everything. #mergersAndAcquisitions
Sort of a "Crime Without Punishment" story.
I just realized how much i’ve missed cinema podcasts from jared😢
Amazing essay! I have been wanting to read the book with this sense of criticality
I finally understand this concept, thanks to you!
I had no idea the book opens with a quote from Dostoevsky, that's an excellent detail!
Thank you, very interesting view of the movie ❤🎉
Congrats for noticing! 💪😎✌️Writing is writing, yet some storytelling techniques differ from others. And in their subtlety, sometimes certain aspects and thematic underpinnings can be lost. Direction and Reflection are both key.
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
unreal analysis would love to hear more of your thoughts on the hyperreal in media
I think another interesting exploration into this film is its distinctly pre-9/11 view of American society. We were so insulated by our privilege that the idea of actual substantial retribution at the hands of those we had used and disposed of for decades that the very notion of accountability had all but vanished from the minds of most urban professionals. (Also, thanks for teaching me something I never would have thought to look up: the acronym at the root of yuppy!)
i don't know why, but i've always known it came from young urban professional... certainly, it was from the media i consumed because my parents are not native english speakers
Damn it Jared I believed you knew things years ago and now you gone and had a change of perspective!
American Psycho reminds me of the Bob Slocum character from Joseph Heller's Something Happened.
Can you do a video analyzing the Chomsky-Foucault debate, and give your thoughts on their positions?
Patrick didn’t kill Paul Allen, he killed a VP who was mistaken for Paul Allen but never corrected anyone.
lmao sheesh
Say whaaahhhh????
This has been a great series!
I understood from the beginning. Bro is literally me
Keep calm and seek therapy.
I read the book fairly recently (That was an experience) and it definitely affected how I look at the film. One thing that stuck out to me was book Patrick’s commentary on people not understanding him. Failing to “capture his essence” as he says at one point. Movie Patrick’s 2nd plea to his lawyer feels like a desperate desire to be seen, which of course doesn’t happen and he’s left with the knowledge that he could do all these atrocious acts, announce it, but have no one really bring him to task. Therefore, meaningless.
Still not sure I understand the movie but this was entertaining and gave me a lot to think about.
I missed how absurd those meals were 😂😂😂
Patrick and those around him are "simply not there" both on the inside and on the outside. They've identified entirely with what's on and above the surface while simultaneously regarding and treating one another instrumentally and conforming to the external values and expectations of their society to such an extreme that the possibility of developing an identity that might help differentiate oneself from another has been utterly extinguished.
Given that Paul Allen and Marcus Halberstram mirror the outward appearance and behaviours of Patrick Bateman, for all intents and purposes, they are one and the same. They are unwitting victims of their own success at the game of "fitting in". They've managed to fit in so successfully as to become almost indistinguishable from one another, and effectively interchangeable. You could swap one out for the other and most people won't even notice; and if somebody were to notice, chances are they probably wouldn't really care. Most days of the week, Marcus and Patrick are essentially synonymous identities.
By conforming to such an extreme, Patrick and his peers are left battling over the most trivial, minor and oftentimes absurd distinctions, as they each attempt to differentiate and elevate themselves above one another: a slightly better haircut, a slightly better dinner reservation, a slightly better tan, a slightly better embellishment on a business card, and so on.
It's one of my favorite movies and seems like a perfect reflection of American society, culture, and capitalism. It's rumored that he used Tom Cruise as a template.
Nonstop consumption lead us to nothing.
Money cant by real happiness
It can buy security, which is essential for happiness. I've been homeless and live in poverty. Money would help me be happier.
@@kristajones7202 I knew someone going to say that. But if u know how get food without money and live in a cave. Would you be happy?
@@Watch-0w1 Security creates happiness, no matter if it is freely accessible or paid for.
And, can you really disagree with what I said?
@@kristajones7202 but not necessary money. Like familyr give u security .
Plus that surviving. A secure person can be unhappy.
@@Watch-0w1 No way, really? I never knew that people with their basic needs met could still be unhappy 🙄
You said you knew someone was going to bring up homelessness, poverty, and money equaling security. So, like, you do understand that money can bring happiness. You just wanna think all theoretically about a "what if" situation that will never happen. Let's live in reality, yeah?
impressive, very nice. Let's see if Paullen finally got it
The ad really got me, I feel the contradictions in the ideology
I see you found your comb! 😆
Oh yeah Christian Bale is definitely a crazy emm effer😂😂😂😂That movie was hilarious.
Jared, how many times? 'Tenets.' It's only got one N. Not the same as 'tennants'. Christopher Nolan movie? Ring any bells?
13:34 not just an interpretation; Albert Speer said as much in his autobiography
Having both read the book and seen the film, which was a rather precise adaptation of the book, with Bale a brilliant casting choice, I came to the conclusion that Bateman simply hallucinated his crimes.
Yes. The chainsaw murder was especially revealing in that it would be impossible to drop a running chainsaw on somebody and cut them - when you let go, the saw idles. And the police car blowing up because it was shot with a pistol. Bateman was just nuts, but it didn't matter because nobody was paying attention. It's like Bateman was the only person sane enough to have a toxic reaction to a completely pointless society. Everybody else were NPCs.
Having done the same, I came to the exact opposite conclusion.
@@charlesp.8555 To each his own!
I think the point is that it doesnt matter. Know one cares. The deeper meaning of the movie is that it does not matter if he killed people or not
BEE hated the movie and I don't blame him.
I was watching this movie last night, and clearly Paul Allen’s business card is the best of the bunch 😂 I love that scene.
"What is to be done" was one of Lenin's favourite books.