Something I am learning but it is a challenge. In my case, I've fought the fact that I am an artist. That is my soul and I have been conflicted between getting a 9-5 and following my heart. You wont believe the extent my parents have meddled and it has left me depressed beyond believe. I've lost 10 years of my life kidding myself. Now I just have to accept me for me. It is time to finally live instead of floating in someone else's fantasy.
That's stupid and disgusting. I really wish people could see that god loves everyone just the way they are so love yourself because you are worthy to be loved.
@BesACB - Very true, there was no concept of "homosexuality" in St. Augustine's time, but a lot of later translators have altered St. Augustine's Confessions to remove anything that we would today recognize as "homosexual". That happens often. Recently a translator of Socrates took the oldest known version of some of his works (I think they were in Arabic) and translated them as objectively as possible and even he was shocked about how openly Socrates talked about his love for men.
Well all of the transformation, all the heart ache, and all the stuff is over now. I am married, Extremely Happily. I have children, and I have not even had the slightest attraction for anyone, NOT ONE single person, other my wife. Female or male. So, now I am destined to be with her, and that is exactly where I want to stay and be. I know in my heart, and my life I chose the right the path. It was not easy, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, but I could not have done better!
Ministries like Exodus and any other ministries are the reason why I was driven to quit my job. When I was in those ministries, I thought that I was completely free from that "sin" until one day, just out of nowhere, they say that I was still not "cured" of it. Even an exorcism happened to me; also told not to tell anybody about it as well. I was also told to pray harder and harder and just stay there on my knees until I was truly "born again" to begin with. Spent the entire month in fear,...
I actually got the chance to work a little with Alan, and to my knowledge, he never really bought into the idea that we can change our orientation to begin with. I can understand him saying that he wanted gay people live good lives to be the best we can be. The problem was, he only gave two options within his definition of "best you can be". Those were 1. Abstinence and 2. Suppressing ("healing") your homosexual desires in order to find a heterosexual mate.
Thanks for posting this video. I remember how little children were punished years ago if they wrote with their left hand. Amazing how some people today still have difficulty accepting people due to differences. I don`t even care to be around people who judge and mistreat others, just because they may be different, whether due to where a person is born, the color of their skin or sexual orientation. If they don`t like me, Fine. I like myself and even better, I accept myself.
I lived your pain. I lived it well. Until I truly became truthful with myself and who I was I could not truly recover. You have to want it more than life itself. It took me nearly 5 years of recovery sessions, that was after I truly opened up to believe it myself. I knew the way I was prior to my teens. Once I accepted the way I was and looked for a way to change this destiny. Then, I got out, and have been better ever since, but to put it in a closet is a living hell, recovery is bliss.
Paul didn't use the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males. The term Paul used is "arsenokoitai" in Greek. The exact meaning is lost. It seems to be a term created by Paul for this verse. "Arsen" means "man" in Greek. So there's no way that "arsenokoitai" could refer to both male & female homosexuals. It seems the translators gave in to the temptation to widen Paul's condemnation to include lesbians also. It's at best VAGUE
@MrAnnbee "attending service will make you "want" to change because of your love for the true God".. what do you think someone who pays money is doing going to these things??? OF course they WANT to change. The reason they are NOT changing is because God does not change. He is offended and insulted that you are going against His design for your life by trying to be straight!
I do not use slang, and I am myself! Never have I felt better, but I am not destined to be that way. There were other circumstances in my childhood that you can not possibly understand. Therefore, I did what I needed to do get to the point I am now. I hope you are blessed throughout your life, as I am, with greatful people and a great support network. I AM MYSELF, and where is written that I have to be labeled?
@surshot56 I sort of agree. As a Swede, I can't believe that stuff like this is actually happening. Sure, there's a certain amount of homophobia here as well, but even back in middle school (?) there would always be straight people standing up for the gay kid. I'm used to a society that actively tries to combat homophobia and sexism, so this is just... wow. I do, however, know that there are LOTS of people in the USA who aren't completely ruled by religion. Thank god for that.
@Ghosts1964 that last line should have read who would your decorator & hairdresser be without homosexuals :) Fact is, we are all different and that is what makes the human race distinct. It is only ourselves that need to answer to ourselves and our maker for our actions. Be happy with who you are and quit worrying about who everyone else is.
Religious driven hate will destroy us all. It's truly what has divided mankind for all of history. It fragments us, makes us hate each other, makes us fight, and can tear even the closest families apart. Religion supposedly tells us to love, but if we need religion as an excuse to love each other, then we are already lost.
@unabnats The thing that stood out to me was that only one of these men were said to be mormon and according to my mormon friend their church doesn't do the therapy but refers them to those who do. It's sad what both these men had to go through, most therapy is a joke.
its sad that people beleive that being gay is something to be cured of when in reality its something to be proud of. its something that is a part of some people and that should never be something to be ashamed of. love no matter whether it is between two men two women or a man and a woman is beautiful. and it should be seen as precious.
People really don't know the pain inside of us. How much it hurts when your told to change to be more masculine to be a "man". I am a gay man just came out 4 mnths ago after fighting it for 14 years. I thought I could be straight and in doing so hurt a wonderful women. I was depressed sucidal and a cutter because of the repression. I wish for oncepeople could live our pain.
Dennis Jernigan, growing up, always knew he was attracted to boys as a piano-playing introvert. He was good at basketball, being the only white kid on an all-black high school team in small-town Oklahoma. He didn't start having gay lovers until college. Jesus led him, though, out of gayness. He's now married with 9 (NINE) biological children, and a Christian singer/songwriter. I hope our society never gets sick enough where he and those like him can't be allowed to tell their life stories.
@luvyatori to YOU it's those things. Just like to a gay person it's nasty and gross that you are with a member of the opposite sex, but because it is more acceptable by society, no gay person would say those things to you. Please have the same respect.
Do you even know WHY Paul wrote what he did to Corinth? Or what he was witnessing in Rome when he wrote Romans? He saw evidence left and right of idolatry and condemned specific acts according to what he saw as evidence of their lustful desires NOT being of our Lord and God in Christianity! These people were wicked, not gay! They were lustful and hateful people... they were not homosexual even if some of them commited specific homosexual acts. You NEED to research as well as read your bible
@Sh0nin "Jehovah and Yahweh are different pronunciations of the ancient Hebrew text YHWH". Not true. "Jehovah is Latin, not Hebrew. And no, we do call God "Yahweh", "Jehovah", and Jesus Christ! We do not change our Bibles to match our doctrinces like JWs do. We do not take out scripture that denies the Diety of Jesus as God. You do! Now who is the heretic?!
@Sh0nin "So you reject Jehovah for being a Latin adaptation, but the Latin adaptation of Christ is just fine?" Not at all! Now you are putting words into my mouth. I call God Jehovah understanding that it is ANOTHER name for God but not His real name just as I call Jesus, the "Christ" knowing that it means anointed!
@Atlavocat : I just don't know how people can claim to know SO much about other people. I don't think being religious is the same as being "right" and as long as I live, I will never understand how knowing every word of every version of a book written by men makes a person an expert on the very intricate and personal makings that add up to become a personal's sexual orientation
People are not confined by preference or tendency even if that tendency comes naturally. A person can change anything. Whether it's eating habits or even their gender. Their is no absolute.
I tried both options, but neither were best for me. I found a better way! I found that I could be myself! By the way, I'm really glad you came out of the ex-gay movement! Congratulations!
@bethdominix - I appreciate your comments. I used to argue with a Gay guy for several years who was also molested by a married man when he was a child. This guy insisted that he was Gay because he was molested. I told him that he needed to give up the guilt - he was not molested because he was Gay, he is not Gay because he was molested. Once he released the guilt, he admitted that I was right.
No matter how wrong somebody may think homosexuality is, wrong and think it can be changed, I can't see how doing the things we've seen here is gonna get rid of one's gay feelings.
I want to cry because we humans cannot accept our fellow humans. we are all just people,we all want to be accepted. It really doesn't matter how it came to be, we are who we are and we shouldn't me made to change.
We're not asking you to "accept the lifestyle" as it isn't a lifestyle, like your being straight isn't a lifestyle, or a choice. I do appreciate the respect being given, as that cannot be understated. All we are asking is to be accepted as who we are... No one needs to think about gay sex, or anything else that makes them uncomfortable, when thinking or talking to or about gays. That would infer more on the person thinking that way than it would on us, the gay community.
@brian8793 : you can't say you love someone AND think they're an abomination. Thats a pretty self-righteous thing to say: that even though you think someone is wicked, wrong, blasphemous, whathaveyou, you still love them. Well thank you for that. It's so nice to knwo that even an evil, sinful abomination is worth your love. That's such an atypical Christian mentality: that all of us heathens want your love. You have too much pride and make too many judgements to be a Christian, my friend
@BesACB - I just "googled" St. Augustine and found that there is more controversy about his sexual orientation than I suspected previously. One article said that he had a female concubine for many years, another said he was exclusively homosexual. So you're probably going to assume he was heterosexual, most straights assume everyone is heterosexual.
The condemnation of eating lobster as being abominable etc in Lev 11:11 is countered later in the bible when Jesus or some other dude makes it "clean". The sanctioning of slavery in Lev 25:44 is however not countered/revoked later and is actually reinforced in verses such as Exodus 21:20-21 and 1 Peter 2:18.
...,depression, more like in the state of temporary insanity. Now, I have finally snapped out of it, without a job (mainly being the temporary insanity), without any income whatsoever, etc.
The very few studies that have attempted (and failed) to demonstrate that becoming ex-gay is possible, struggled to find that many ex-gays. One of those studies even acknowledges that people are known to lie about their orientation when in the ex-gay movement and many ex-ex-gays claim that they were lying about their orientation change when they claimed to be ex-gay. Almost all ex-gays base their claim on their behaviour, not their orientation. Celibacy doesn't = orientation change.
It is places like this that make people who are gay and who don't know what it means to be gay or to live happily being who they are... afraid that they're doing something wrong. I mean if you're doing something wrong willingly... then odds are you'll stop. But if this is something deeper than that then it can't be changed. People shouldn't have to have that fear. People shouldn't be given a license to make people feel ashamed of who they are. Its morally wrong. Love is love.
Sitdownstandup91 pontificates, "If somebody doesnt want to be gay, they should be allowed to have that choice to change." That's like saying, "If someone doesn't want to be black they should be allowed to have the choice to change." We should not be encouraging what is simply not possible, just because bigots condemn blacks or gays. The problem is the idiocy and prejudice directed against minorities, not the minorities themselves.
I know that I started having these gay feeling as far back as I can remember. I didnt know why or that I was "wrong" at all. When I was like 6 this boy first touched me, and kept doing it, then my mother's freind's kids. We were the same age, so nobody worried or knew. As I grew older I just continued to have deeper thoughts. I hid until I in 7th grade. Then I was out in 11th grade. I went through leaving home twice. Now my Mom is ok wit me, and nobody is ever hateful to me. Im real not fake.
@Phendraana The European countries you mentioned are mostly christian or some sort of religion. Japan is America's asia, which was highly religious BEFORE america defeated it. After america "fixed" it, we got today's japan.
Thievery and adultery are voluntary actions, not involuntary attractions. A person's sexual orientation is defined chiefly by their attractions, which is why we can and do classify people (and ourselves) as gay/straight prior to any sexual/romantic interACTIONS. A celibate straight person is not an ex-straight. Homosexuals aren't generally interested in "pulling ex-gays back in". Many resent the claims made by ex-gays (which are frequently later recanted) as they reinforce heterosexism.
I did accept the fact that I had same sex attraction. When I did, it was easier to get through the recovery process. I am good, for the first time in my life. Once I accepted it I found it easier to get to the goal I set for myself. If I did not totally want to recover it would have been a total waste of time. For once, I am truly at peace with me, and myself. Living in the closet is definately not the answer, I know that! I had to accept it, and move forward to recover, and it took 5 ys
This is particularly the case because the preceding and proceeding verses, such as 1:25, below, are geared towards criticizing Roman paganism and so 1:26-27 is simply part of a list of practises associated with paganism. In 1 Corinthians 11:14-15 Paul demonstrates that he is incorrect about what is and what isn't natural. 2 Corinthians 11:17, Paul admits that he does not always speak the word of God but sometimes expresses his own opinion. He also sanctions slavery and is sexist. Word limit.
@Atlavocat : exactly I was gay LONG before I ever had sexual relations with anyone. I would be gay if I was a virgin. I would be gay if I was impotent. It's a part of our personalities, not a label to define our actions.
"Islamic and Jewish people say the same thing about their texts, too." Um.. it's the same as Christian text.. they just don't believe in the SAVIOR Jesus. Muslims & Jews are trying to make it on "works" and that is something that would terrify the crap outta me seeing as how NOONE is perfect! Jesus says He is the way, the truth and the life, No one gets to the Father (God) but through Him. I feel sorry for people that don't heed that warning and STILL go on living like they know more that Christ
@surfthetube09 wrong. WRONG. I am a gay man, and i have several same-sex friends and i dont see them all as possible romantic choices, nor do i allow myself to care for them romantically. I care for many of them in the brotherly sense that you describe, in fact i call most of them Bubba, a term many people use when talking/referring to their brothers.
Why are people so mad? Peaceful, loving, and accepting communities do not spread, inflict and damage the world with hate, anger, and oppression. Do we not know to look at our own faults before cursing our neighbor?
Im respectful to others because people are who they are whether they can help it or not and just cause we may have different views doesn't mean we should be cut-throat to each other.
@Atlavocat: Oh don't you worry it's been little more than a decade since I've lived anywhere that didn't have a mass transit system, loud city streets and colorful characters on every block :D that little town is far far behind me I have to visit every once and a great while to see 1 of my brothers that's still there but other than that- far, FAR behind me.
@TheRoyaldiamond I'm not saying you specifically are trying to change your orientation...I meant you in general, meaning anybody who tries to change their orientation.
@NBAGOATS - No respected psychologist or psychiatrist believes that being Gay is a disorder or deficiency. As Sigmund Freud himself said, some of the greatest people who ever lived were homosexual. No one chooses their sexual orientation ever, but some people realize their orientation later in life. People do not change sexual orientation because of a bad relationship - if they did there would be a lot more Lesbians than there actually are.
I agree, though the perversion of the bible by translators would seem to reflect rather poorly on it's alleged inerrancy. Regarding the "misuse" of something though, it remains to be established that there are a limited number of legitimate ways of using something (such as genitalia). What constitutes a "misuse" also doesn't seem clear, which means your definition for perversion really just shifts the requirement now towards a definition of "misuse".
My point in this is calling out the false doctrine and arrogant lie of the JW religion! Jesus said "I AM the TRUTH" yet you guys call your doctrine such! It's blashemy because Christ IS God!
5:50 is what I have been saying for years. Young Feminized boys suffer through a lot of the same treatment that girls and young women do. Being talked down to like our ideas aren’t good enough, being chastised, being sexually abused and told that it’s OUR fault. Most feminine males are terrified of men. Even into adulthood. We were treated alot like girls and were very feminine from a young age, and grown men picked up on this and used it against us. We had to walk around in fear of men and other boys and what they would do to us physically, mentally or sexually ALSO.
Did you read the story? I was an addict, but I guess you can only see one side. Good luck in life and your happiness. May God bless you. I would have done anything to get over the addiction. What I did was far simplier than what you think. Again, since you are completely unable to comprehend my delimna, God bless you, I wish you all the best.
@JJSLAP Babies are pretty much the same as one another, whether male, female, gay or straight. But future, sexual orientation can often be seen in younger, pre-school children. "Straight" kids begin wanting to "kiss" one another or engage in some sort of sexual play with the opp. sex. "Gay" kids begin the years' long torture of being told that the way they act and who they want to love is wrong and not normative. I was a preschool teacher for years. I know. No kid chooses that kind of torment.
How sad. Playing sports, changing oil, avoiding retail jobs, does not make you more of a man. It just makes you look stupid. I am a man but I don't play sports. I used to run track, and thats about it. I've never been into the traditional sports, i.e., basketball, football. A man is someone who takes responsibility for himself and is honest and open with himself. A man is someone who loves himself and is able to spread that love to others. A man is independent, in every sense of the word.
I am happy, I was gay once, and I am married, and I do not have to think of guys to have sex with my wife. This is not an easy choice for guys like me. I did what I had to do, and I forcefully went out of my way to become what I needed to be to get over this same sex attraction. I am a much person for it today. I have nothing against the homosexual population. It was just not for me. And, I never want to go back, and I want to make this clear, I have nothing against homosexuals.
"Arsenokoitai" is a Greek word that appears to have been created by Paul when he was writing 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. No record remains of any writer having using the term before Paul. It has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the King James Version (KJV): "Arsenokoitai" is made up of two parts: "arsen" means "man"; "koitai" means "beds." If Paul had meant homosexual, he would have used the word "paiderasste" the Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males
@enemay : what I'm saying is, what makes them gay or ex-gay? If they ARE gay, but they choose to ignore, deny, lie to themselves, act straight, play straight, act-and-repent, whatever: who's to say? Being gay is something intrinsic to a person's individual genetic and chemical make up, but if they choose to ignore it, does that negate their label? like I said before, a left-handed person can be forced to use their right hand their whole lives.....are they still a lefty?
@Atlavocat - i'm not saying that bad relationships are strictly the reason. But it is a reason people turn gay. I know about 5 different cases where women were fed up with men and now are lesbians. People are gay due to deficiencies in testosterone and other hormonal issues. In either case it isn't normal. Thats why I say its due to a deficiency,.bad relationships or just a simple matter of choice. You can form love for anything. Even an animal. But before that happens there is a choice
@AlmightyZEDANIUM - It is true that in ancient times there was no concept of "homosexuality" ot "heterosexuality" because everyone engaged in same-sex and opposite sex sex acts on occasion (especially while young). But the biological factors that make people Gay, straight or Bisexual have always beeen there. If you check your history, Caesar had no female lovers - he had female alliances, but his wife died a virgin and Cleopatra was impregnated while Caesar was in Rome.
I know of a pair of young Mormon missionaries here in the Philippines who had arelationship with one another...I think they were thinking that no one knew them here anyway so they can be really their true selves.....
Regarding Romans 1:26-27, In 1st century Rome, bisexuality was considered to be the cultural norm and was especially practiced in orgies as part of Pagan fertility rituals. Verses 26 and 27 may actually refer to heterosexuals who behave homosexually in accordance with their culture and pagan rituals, despite being heterosexual, rather than actual to homosexuals. By doing this they defy their God-given nature (while a homosexual would not be doing so).
@charlamain2209 A large percentage of religions also believed, and some still believe, that women shouldn't be viewed in the same light as males. I saw your comment towards RespectTheHair, and all I really have is this to say- The disorder you speak of (kleptomania) is actually a disorder that has people victimize other people. Who are you victimizing when you are being a homosexual?
@SuperParamorefan13 It's called: creating your own enemy. Someone to look down on, and if you look down on people, you will get a constant reminder of how blessed and you good you are. its the same old trick repeated over and over again.
Christianity IS the only way to God! HOWEVER a true Christian who actually KNOWS their bible and Jesus, they would know that being gay is NOT a choice and the orientation itself is NOT condemned in the bible!
Actually it depends on the individual. Therapy is useless if someone doesn't really want to change. They shouldn't have spent that much money for the therapy.
He was made when people wrote the bible, just like every other god was made at some point in history, and just like the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy were made. My homosexuality is a gift. Indeed, my homosexuality has brought me and my husband immeasurable joy through the love and companionship we share together and with my family (not his as they are Christian and rejected him in their ever loving way) through our wonderful nine year gay marriage.
It sickens me that there are actually people out there willing to take advantage of desperate and vulnerable people by completely indoctrinating and dehumanizing them whilst taking the money. But also that some people are actually that ignorant and unwilling to change their negative perspectives to something that really is no affair of them.
I'm a mormon. It just so happens my best friend is gay. Mormonism does not endorse that being gay is bad. It is up to each individual member to choose that for themselves. I love my friend and for those people who are saying ALL mormons hate homosexuality, your wrong. That's all I'm going to say.
That's why I say that even if the fictional paranoia displayed by homophobes were to come true and the whole world "turned" gay, life will still continue and babies will still be made. Heterosexual intercourse isn't needed for the propagation of the species
@Atlavocat : Why would I have chosen to be spit at, attacked, belittled, ridiculed, ostracized, shamed and abused? So that I could spend 18 years living in a small town, hopeing ONE DAY to have gay sex? That's dumb. I have 3 brothers who were all raiesd just the same as I was- no abusive dad or overbearing mother, no dance classes or playing with dolls....and yet, I'm gay and they aren't. Gee, it's almost like we're all just whoever we were meant to be. How crazy is that???????
What are you talking about? There's no double standard. Since when did anyone say straight people can 'turn' gay? that's boloney. If you're gay your gay if your straight your straight. If your bisexual you are bisexual. It's really not that hard to understand.
@jmbhottie23 Being Gay is a lot more than "who fucks who". Considering that we make up about ten percent of the general population, Gay people make up more than fifty percent of the most creative people who have ever lived. Socrates, Sappho, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Emperor Hadrian, St. Augustine, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Rene Descartes, Christopher Marlowe, Moliere, Sir Isaac Newton, Edward II, James I, Byron, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Alan Turing, etc..
@enemay : I don't think they're liars, I just think they're living a lie. If you're left handed, you can FORCE Yourself to use your rigth hand to write with, It won't feel right and it won't be natural, but you can make your hand go through the motions. Religion is a powerful thing- the MOST powerful people lay down their live in service of their belifes I think that's powerful enough to make people do and say all kinds of things that might not necessarily be fundemental truths
@CountessKitty18 oh then according to that, you can't choose which species you fall in love with either, so tomorrow if someone says he's in love with his dog & wants to marry it, it's okay? i see, that is VERY wise... NOT! -_-
"sexual addiction and sexual orientation are not the same thing " -- thats true I'm a Christian and I find that the rules they had to follow were sooo dumb . The whole treatment thing was dumb too . Its good they learned to love themselves for who they are . I
Better to be the person you were born to be,than try and kid yourself you are something you're never going to be.
Something I am learning but it is a challenge. In my case, I've fought the fact that I am an artist. That is my soul and I have been conflicted between getting a 9-5 and following my heart. You wont believe the extent my parents have meddled and it has left me depressed beyond believe. I've lost 10 years of my life kidding myself. Now I just have to accept me for me. It is time to finally live instead of floating in someone else's fantasy.
@theshaggyskinhead So simple yet you spoke a thousand words. Love this!!!! Thank you!!!!
That's stupid and disgusting. I really wish people could see that god loves everyone just the way they are so love yourself because you are worthy to be loved.
@BesACB - Very true, there was no concept of "homosexuality" in St. Augustine's time, but a lot of later translators have altered St. Augustine's Confessions to remove anything that we would today recognize as "homosexual". That happens often. Recently a translator of Socrates took the oldest known version of some of his works (I think they were in Arabic) and translated them as objectively as possible and even he was shocked about how openly Socrates talked about his love for men.
Well all of the transformation, all the heart ache, and all the stuff is over now. I am married, Extremely Happily. I have children, and I have not even had the slightest attraction for anyone, NOT ONE single person, other my wife. Female or male. So, now I am destined to be with her, and that is exactly where I want to stay and be. I know in my heart, and my life I chose the right the path. It was not easy, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, but I could not have done better!
Ministries like Exodus and any other ministries are the reason why I was driven to quit my job. When I was in those ministries, I thought that I was completely free from that "sin" until one day, just out of nowhere, they say that I was still not "cured" of it. Even an exorcism happened to me; also told not to tell anybody about it as well. I was also told to pray harder and harder and just stay there on my knees until I was truly "born again" to begin with. Spent the entire month in fear,...
I actually got the chance to work a little with Alan, and to my knowledge, he never really bought into the idea that we can change our orientation to begin with. I can understand him saying that he wanted gay people live good lives to be the best we can be. The problem was, he only gave two options within his definition of "best you can be". Those were 1. Abstinence and 2. Suppressing ("healing") your homosexual desires in order to find a heterosexual mate.
Thanks for posting this video. I remember how little children were punished years ago if they wrote with their left hand. Amazing how some people today still have difficulty accepting people due to differences. I don`t even care to be around people who judge and mistreat others, just because they may be different, whether due to where a person is born, the color of their skin or sexual orientation. If they don`t like me, Fine. I like myself and even better, I accept myself.
I lived your pain. I lived it well. Until I truly became truthful with myself and who I was I could not truly recover. You have to want it more than life itself. It took me nearly 5 years of recovery sessions, that was after I truly opened up to believe it myself. I knew the way I was prior to my teens. Once I accepted the way I was and looked for a way to change this destiny. Then, I got out, and have been better ever since, but to put it in a closet is a living hell, recovery is bliss.
... There is NOTHING to CHANGE! We are PERFECT as we are!
Paul didn't use the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males.
The term Paul used is "arsenokoitai" in Greek. The exact meaning is lost. It seems to be a term created by Paul for this verse. "Arsen" means "man" in Greek. So there's no way that "arsenokoitai" could refer to both male & female homosexuals. It seems the translators gave in to the temptation to widen Paul's condemnation to include lesbians also. It's at best VAGUE
@MusicMyWayOfLife Well said my friend, well said!
@MrAnnbee "attending service will make you "want" to change because of your love for the true God".. what do you think someone who pays money is doing going to these things??? OF course they WANT to change. The reason they are NOT changing is because God does not change. He is offended and insulted that you are going against His design for your life by trying to be straight!
I do not use slang, and I am myself! Never have I felt better, but I am not destined to be that way. There were other circumstances in my childhood that you can not possibly understand. Therefore, I did what I needed to do get to the point I am now. I hope you are blessed throughout your life, as I am, with greatful people and a great support network. I AM MYSELF, and where is written that I have to be labeled?
@schlummieleinchen thank you! i couldn't agree more!
@surshot56 I sort of agree. As a Swede, I can't believe that stuff like this is actually happening. Sure, there's a certain amount of homophobia here as well, but even back in middle school (?) there would always be straight people standing up for the gay kid. I'm used to a society that actively tries to combat homophobia and sexism, so this is just... wow.
I do, however, know that there are LOTS of people in the USA who aren't completely ruled by religion. Thank god for that.
@Ghosts1964 that last line should have read who would your decorator & hairdresser be without homosexuals :)
Fact is, we are all different and that is what makes the human race distinct. It is only ourselves that need to answer to ourselves and our maker for our actions. Be happy with who you are and quit worrying about who everyone else is.
Religious driven hate will destroy us all. It's truly what has divided mankind for all of history. It fragments us, makes us hate each other, makes us fight, and can tear even the closest families apart. Religion supposedly tells us to love, but if we need religion as an excuse to love each other, then we are already lost.
I really like the cut scene picture of people walking off a cliff~
@unabnats The thing that stood out to me was that only one of these men were said to be mormon and according to my mormon friend their church doesn't do the therapy but refers them to those who do.
It's sad what both these men had to go through, most therapy is a joke.
its sad that people beleive that being gay is something to be cured of when in reality its something to be proud of. its something that is a part of some people and that should never be something to be ashamed of. love no matter whether it is between two men two women or a man and a woman is beautiful. and it should be seen as precious.
People really don't know the pain inside of us. How much it hurts when your told to change to be more masculine to be a "man". I am a gay man just came out 4 mnths ago after fighting it for 14 years. I thought I could be straight and in doing so hurt a wonderful women. I was depressed sucidal and a cutter because of the repression. I wish for oncepeople could live our pain.
Dennis Jernigan, growing up, always knew he was attracted to boys as a piano-playing introvert. He was good at basketball, being the only white kid on an all-black high school team in small-town Oklahoma. He didn't start having gay lovers until college. Jesus led him, though, out of gayness. He's now married with 9 (NINE) biological children, and a Christian singer/songwriter.
I hope our society never gets sick enough where he and those like him can't be allowed to tell their life stories.
People need to accept themselves for who they are. No one else is going to be accepting if you aren't.
@luvyatori to YOU it's those things. Just like to a gay person it's nasty and gross that you are with a member of the opposite sex, but because it is more acceptable by society, no gay person would say those things to you. Please have the same respect.
Do you even know WHY Paul wrote what he did to Corinth? Or what he was witnessing in Rome when he wrote Romans? He saw evidence left and right of idolatry and condemned specific acts according to what he saw as evidence of their lustful desires NOT being of our Lord and God in Christianity! These people were wicked, not gay! They were lustful and hateful people... they were not homosexual even if some of them commited specific homosexual acts. You NEED to research as well as read your bible
@Sh0nin "Jehovah and Yahweh are different pronunciations of the ancient Hebrew text YHWH". Not true. "Jehovah is Latin, not Hebrew. And no, we do call God "Yahweh", "Jehovah", and Jesus Christ! We do not change our Bibles to match our doctrinces like JWs do. We do not take out scripture that denies the Diety of Jesus as God. You do! Now who is the heretic?!
these poor people! no one can change who you are in your heart! why can't this country be more accepting? we are in the 21st century now people!
The beginning of this video scared the shit out of me
@Sh0nin "So you reject Jehovah for being a Latin adaptation, but the Latin adaptation of Christ is just fine?" Not at all! Now you are putting words into my mouth. I call God Jehovah understanding that it is ANOTHER name for God but not His real name just as I call Jesus, the "Christ" knowing that it means anointed!
Thank GOD she had the montages of random shadowy figures lurking behind frosted glass, I almost didn't understand the severity of the situation there!
@Atlavocat : I just don't know how people can claim to know SO much about other people.
I don't think being religious is the same as being "right"
and as long as I live, I will never understand how knowing every word of every version of a book written by men makes a person an expert on the very intricate and personal makings that add up to become a personal's sexual orientation
People are not confined by preference or tendency even if that tendency comes naturally. A person can change anything. Whether it's eating habits or even their gender. Their is no absolute.
I tried both options, but neither were best for me. I found a better way! I found that I could be myself! By the way, I'm really glad you came out of the ex-gay movement! Congratulations!
@bethdominix - I appreciate your comments. I used to argue with a Gay guy for several years who was also molested by a married man when he was a child. This guy insisted that he was Gay because he was molested. I told him that he needed to give up the guilt - he was not molested because he was Gay, he is not Gay because he was molested. Once he released the guilt, he admitted that I was right.
No matter how wrong somebody may think homosexuality is, wrong and think it can be changed, I can't see how doing the things we've seen here is gonna get rid of one's gay feelings.
I want to cry because we humans cannot accept our fellow humans. we are all just people,we all want to be accepted. It really doesn't matter how it came to be, we are who we are and we shouldn't me made to change.
We're not asking you to "accept the lifestyle" as it isn't a lifestyle, like your being straight isn't a lifestyle, or a choice. I do appreciate the respect being given, as that cannot be understated. All we are asking is to be accepted as who we are... No one needs to think about gay sex, or anything else that makes them uncomfortable, when thinking or talking to or about gays. That would infer more on the person thinking that way than it would on us, the gay community.
@brian8793 : you can't say you love someone AND think they're an abomination. Thats a pretty self-righteous thing to say: that even though you think someone is wicked, wrong, blasphemous, whathaveyou, you still love them.
Well thank you for that. It's so nice to knwo that even an evil, sinful abomination is worth your love.
That's such an atypical Christian mentality: that all of us heathens want your love.
You have too much pride and make too many judgements to be a Christian, my friend
@BesACB - I just "googled" St. Augustine and found that there is more controversy about his sexual orientation than I suspected previously. One article said that he had a female concubine for many years, another said he was exclusively homosexual. So you're probably going to assume he was heterosexual, most straights assume everyone is heterosexual.
The condemnation of eating lobster as being abominable etc in Lev 11:11 is countered later in the bible when Jesus or some other dude makes it "clean".
The sanctioning of slavery in Lev 25:44 is however not countered/revoked later and is actually reinforced in verses such as Exodus 21:20-21 and 1 Peter 2:18.
...,depression, more like in the state of temporary insanity. Now, I have finally snapped out of it, without a job (mainly being the temporary insanity), without any income whatsoever, etc.
The very few studies that have attempted (and failed) to demonstrate that becoming ex-gay is possible, struggled to find that many ex-gays. One of those studies even acknowledges that people are known to lie about their orientation when in the ex-gay movement and many ex-ex-gays claim that they were lying about their orientation change when they claimed to be ex-gay.
Almost all ex-gays base their claim on their behaviour, not their orientation. Celibacy doesn't = orientation change.
It is places like this that make people who are gay and who don't know what it means to be gay or to live happily being who they are... afraid that they're doing something wrong. I mean if you're doing something wrong willingly... then odds are you'll stop. But if this is something deeper than that then it can't be changed. People shouldn't have to have that fear. People shouldn't be given a license to make people feel ashamed of who they are. Its morally wrong. Love is love.
HERE HERE
Sitdownstandup91 pontificates, "If somebody doesnt want to be gay, they should be allowed to have that choice to change."
That's like saying, "If someone doesn't want to be black they should be allowed to have the choice to change."
We should not be encouraging what is simply not possible, just because bigots condemn blacks or gays. The problem is the idiocy and prejudice directed against minorities, not the minorities themselves.
I know that I started having these gay feeling as far back as I can remember. I didnt know why or that I was "wrong" at all. When I was like 6 this boy first touched me, and kept doing it, then my mother's freind's kids. We were the same age, so nobody worried or knew. As I grew older I just continued to have deeper thoughts. I hid until I in 7th grade. Then I was out in 11th grade. I went through leaving home twice. Now my Mom is ok wit me, and nobody is ever hateful to me. Im real not fake.
@Phendraana
The European countries you mentioned are mostly christian or some sort of religion. Japan is America's asia, which was highly religious BEFORE america defeated it. After america "fixed" it, we got today's japan.
Thievery and adultery are voluntary actions, not involuntary attractions. A person's sexual orientation is defined chiefly by their attractions, which is why we can and do classify people (and ourselves) as gay/straight prior to any sexual/romantic interACTIONS. A celibate straight person is not an ex-straight.
Homosexuals aren't generally interested in "pulling ex-gays back in". Many resent the claims made by ex-gays (which are frequently later recanted) as they reinforce heterosexism.
I did accept the fact that I had same sex attraction. When I did, it was easier to get through the recovery process. I am good, for the first time in my life. Once I accepted it I found it easier to get to the goal I set for myself. If I did not totally want to recover it would have been a total waste of time. For once, I am truly at peace with me, and myself. Living in the closet is definately not the answer, I know that! I had to accept it, and move forward to recover, and it took 5 ys
This is particularly the case because the preceding and proceeding verses, such as 1:25, below, are geared towards criticizing Roman paganism and so 1:26-27 is simply part of a list of practises associated with paganism.
In 1 Corinthians 11:14-15 Paul demonstrates that he is incorrect about what is and what isn't natural.
2 Corinthians 11:17, Paul admits that he does not always speak the word of God but sometimes expresses his own opinion.
He also sanctions slavery and is sexist.
Word limit.
@Atlavocat : exactly
I was gay LONG before I ever had sexual relations with anyone.
I would be gay if I was a virgin.
I would be gay if I was impotent.
It's a part of our personalities, not a label to define our actions.
"Islamic and Jewish people say the same thing about their texts, too." Um.. it's the same as Christian text.. they just don't believe in the SAVIOR Jesus. Muslims & Jews are trying to make it on "works" and that is something that would terrify the crap outta me seeing as how NOONE is perfect! Jesus says He is the way, the truth and the life, No one gets to the Father (God) but through Him. I feel sorry for people that don't heed that warning and STILL go on living like they know more that Christ
@surfthetube09 wrong. WRONG. I am a gay man, and i have several same-sex friends and i dont see them all as possible romantic choices, nor do i allow myself to care for them romantically. I care for many of them in the brotherly sense that you describe, in fact i call most of them Bubba, a term many people use when talking/referring to their brothers.
Why are people so mad? Peaceful, loving, and accepting communities do not spread, inflict and damage the world with hate, anger, and oppression. Do we not know to look at our own faults before cursing our neighbor?
"Love in Action" honestly sounds like the name of a gay porno. I-RONY!
the first part of the video with those" flashback" clips are really disturbing!
You're right, but it was an unwanted ailment for me, so I like to use the word cure
Im respectful to others because people are who they are whether they can help it or not and just cause we may have different views doesn't mean we should be cut-throat to each other.
@Atlavocat: Oh don't you worry
it's been little more than a decade since I've lived anywhere that didn't have a mass transit system, loud city streets and colorful characters on every block :D
that little town is far far behind me
I have to visit every once and a great while to see 1 of my brothers that's still there
but other than that- far, FAR behind me.
@TheRoyaldiamond I'm not saying you specifically are trying to change your orientation...I meant you in general, meaning anybody who tries to change their orientation.
@NBAGOATS - No respected psychologist or psychiatrist believes that being Gay is a disorder or deficiency. As Sigmund Freud himself said, some of the greatest people who ever lived were homosexual. No one chooses their sexual orientation ever, but some people realize their orientation later in life. People do not change sexual orientation because of a bad relationship - if they did there would be a lot more Lesbians than there actually are.
I agree, though the perversion of the bible by translators would seem to reflect rather poorly on it's alleged inerrancy.
Regarding the "misuse" of something though, it remains to be established that there are a limited number of legitimate ways of using something (such as genitalia).
What constitutes a "misuse" also doesn't seem clear, which means your definition for perversion really just shifts the requirement now towards a definition of "misuse".
My point in this is calling out the false doctrine and arrogant lie of the JW religion! Jesus said "I AM the TRUTH" yet you guys call your doctrine such! It's blashemy because Christ IS God!
5:50 is what I have been saying for years. Young Feminized boys suffer through a lot of the same treatment that girls and young women do. Being talked down to like our ideas aren’t good enough, being chastised, being sexually abused and told that it’s OUR fault. Most feminine males are terrified of men. Even into adulthood. We were treated alot like girls and were very feminine from a young age, and grown men picked up on this and used it against us. We had to walk around in fear of men and other boys and what they would do to us physically, mentally or sexually ALSO.
Yes, it is all about gender policing. IT is cruel and so unnecessary. Thanks for the comment.
Did you read the story? I was an addict, but I guess you can only see one side. Good luck in life and your happiness. May God bless you. I would have done anything to get over the addiction. What I did was far simplier than what you think. Again, since you are completely unable to comprehend my delimna, God bless you, I wish you all the best.
It's sad it took so many years and mental anguish for them to finally accept themselves.
@BionicV - I agree with you completely. This is something that almost all Gay people know instinctively, but bigots refuse to accept.
@JJSLAP
Babies are pretty much the same as one another, whether male, female, gay or straight. But future, sexual orientation can often be seen in younger, pre-school children. "Straight" kids begin wanting to "kiss" one another or engage in some sort of sexual play with the opp. sex. "Gay" kids begin the years' long torture of being told that the way they act and who they want to love is wrong and not normative. I was a preschool teacher for years. I know. No kid chooses that kind of torment.
How sad. Playing sports, changing oil, avoiding retail jobs, does not make you more of a man. It just makes you look stupid. I am a man but I don't play sports. I used to run track, and thats about it. I've never been into the traditional sports, i.e., basketball, football. A man is someone who takes responsibility for himself and is honest and open with himself. A man is someone who loves himself and is able to spread that love to others. A man is independent, in every sense of the word.
I am happy, I was gay once, and I am married, and I do not have to think of guys to have sex with my wife. This is not an easy choice for guys like me. I did what I had to do, and I forcefully went out of my way to become what I needed to be to get over this same sex attraction. I am a much person for it today. I have nothing against the homosexual population. It was just not for me. And, I never want to go back, and I want to make this clear, I have nothing against homosexuals.
"Arsenokoitai" is a Greek word that appears to have been created by Paul when he was writing 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. No record remains of any writer having using the term before Paul. It has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the King James Version (KJV):
"Arsenokoitai" is made up of two parts: "arsen" means "man"; "koitai" means "beds."
If Paul had meant homosexual, he would have used the word "paiderasste" the Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males
@enemay : what I'm saying is, what makes them gay or ex-gay?
If they ARE gay, but they choose to ignore, deny, lie to themselves, act straight, play straight, act-and-repent, whatever: who's to say?
Being gay is something intrinsic to a person's individual genetic and chemical make up, but if they choose to ignore it, does that negate their label?
like I said before, a left-handed person can be forced to use their right hand their whole lives.....are they still a lefty?
@Atlavocat - i'm not saying that bad relationships are strictly the reason. But it is a reason people turn gay. I know about 5 different cases where women were fed up with men and now are lesbians. People are gay due to deficiencies in testosterone and other hormonal issues. In either case it isn't normal. Thats why I say its due to a deficiency,.bad relationships or just a simple matter of choice. You can form love for anything. Even an animal. But before that happens there is a choice
@AlmightyZEDANIUM - It is true that in ancient times there was no concept of "homosexuality" ot "heterosexuality" because everyone engaged in same-sex and opposite sex sex acts on occasion (especially while young). But the biological factors that make people Gay, straight or Bisexual have always beeen there. If you check your history, Caesar had no female lovers - he had female alliances, but his wife died a virgin and Cleopatra was impregnated while Caesar was in Rome.
I know of a pair of young Mormon missionaries here in the Philippines who had arelationship with one another...I think they were thinking that no one knew them here anyway so they can be really their true selves.....
Yes, never said I disagreed with that.
@blueberrykissesxox, thank you. The truth usually is flawless. :)
Regarding Romans 1:26-27,
In 1st century Rome, bisexuality was considered to be the cultural norm and was especially practiced in orgies as part of Pagan fertility rituals.
Verses 26 and 27 may actually refer to heterosexuals who behave homosexually in accordance with their culture and pagan rituals, despite being heterosexual, rather than actual to homosexuals. By doing this they defy their God-given nature (while a homosexual would not be doing so).
@charlamain2209
A large percentage of religions also believed, and some still believe, that women shouldn't be viewed in the same light as males. I saw your comment towards RespectTheHair, and all I really have is this to say- The disorder you speak of (kleptomania) is actually a disorder that has people victimize other people. Who are you victimizing when you are being a homosexual?
@HackFlashGamer Very compelling argument.
@SuperParamorefan13 It's called: creating your own enemy. Someone to look down on, and if you look down on people, you will get a constant reminder of how blessed and you good you are. its the same old trick repeated over and over again.
Christianity IS the only way to God! HOWEVER a true Christian who actually KNOWS their bible and Jesus, they would know that being gay is NOT a choice and the orientation itself is NOT condemned in the bible!
Actually it depends on the individual. Therapy is useless if someone doesn't really want to change. They shouldn't have spent that much money for the therapy.
He was made when people wrote the bible, just like every other god was made at some point in history, and just like the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy were made.
My homosexuality is a gift. Indeed, my homosexuality has brought me and my husband immeasurable joy through the love and companionship we share together and with my family (not his as they are Christian and rejected him in their ever loving way) through our wonderful nine year gay marriage.
Lol, it looks like their personal stories got mixed in with the sci-fi channel.
It sickens me that there are actually people out there willing to take advantage of desperate and vulnerable people by completely indoctrinating and dehumanizing them whilst taking the money. But also that some people are actually that ignorant and unwilling to change their negative perspectives to something that really is no affair of them.
tyra's hair looks amazing
I'm a mormon. It just so happens my best friend is gay. Mormonism does not endorse that being gay is bad. It is up to each individual member to choose that for themselves. I love my friend and for those people who are saying ALL mormons hate homosexuality, your wrong. That's all I'm going to say.
Best quote ever
That's why I say that even if the fictional paranoia displayed by homophobes were to come true and the whole world "turned" gay, life will still continue and babies will still be made. Heterosexual intercourse isn't needed for the propagation of the species
John Smid eventually came out.
@Atlavocat : Why would I have chosen to be spit at, attacked, belittled, ridiculed, ostracized, shamed and abused?
So that I could spend 18 years living in a small town, hopeing ONE DAY to have gay sex?
That's dumb.
I have 3 brothers who were all raiesd just the same as I was- no abusive dad or overbearing mother, no dance classes or playing with dolls....and yet, I'm gay and they aren't.
Gee, it's almost like we're all just whoever we were meant to be.
How crazy is that???????
What are you talking about? There's no double standard. Since when did anyone say straight people can 'turn' gay? that's boloney. If you're gay your gay if your straight your straight. If your bisexual you are bisexual. It's really not that hard to understand.
@jmbhottie23 Being Gay is a lot more than "who fucks who". Considering that we make up about ten percent of the general population, Gay people make up more than fifty percent of the most creative people who have ever lived. Socrates, Sappho, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Emperor Hadrian, St. Augustine, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Rene Descartes, Christopher Marlowe, Moliere, Sir Isaac Newton, Edward II, James I, Byron, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Alan Turing, etc..
@enemay :
I don't think they're liars, I just think they're living a lie.
If you're left handed, you can FORCE Yourself to use your rigth hand to write with,
It won't feel right and it won't be natural, but you can make your hand go through the motions.
Religion is a powerful thing- the MOST powerful
people lay down their live in service of their belifes
I think that's powerful enough to make people do and say all kinds of things that might not necessarily be fundemental truths
@SuperSuzy89 The problem is....you can kind of say that about homosexuality, too. Two-way street in which there seems to be zero mutual respect.
The opening was kinda scary...may make a good horror movie...
@CountessKitty18 oh then according to that, you can't choose which species you fall in love with either, so tomorrow if someone says he's in love with his dog & wants to marry it, it's okay? i see, that is VERY wise...
NOT! -_-
"sexual addiction and sexual orientation are not the same thing " -- thats true
I'm a Christian and I find that the rules they had to follow were sooo dumb . The whole treatment thing was dumb too . Its good they learned to love themselves for who they are .
I