This SBC in my W211 E270 probably saved me from a crash. Long story short, at a speed of 130kmh and while entering a corner i had to slow down abruptly, the speed was reduced by 50kmh in an instant and it was barely noticeable. Who didn't drive with this doesn't know the benefit, but of course it has it's own flaws, like that recall and dying off after some mileage, but for every problem, there is a solution. :)
I have to agree with you. Own a 2004 E320 W211 with SBC. The only disadvantage of this system is that is a money pit. But I'd rather pay $1000 for a new SBC pump than have the brakes system of the facelift W211. I've driven my friend's facelift W211 without SBC, it's good. But I very well noticed the difference of not having SBC. It saved my ass several times, and while it is expensive, those extra dollars that you put into it might someday save your life!
It's true I have a 2006 E320CDI and that is a really special year for the car because it has the CDI inline 6 turbo diesel and the SBC. I really like the SBC, yeah it has kind a plastic like feel and it's not the most precise modulation of power, but it can control the brake way better then I can on my own and when I'm driving hard and I need it, it's there way faster then any human could ever be. There's a few times I was going fast in traffic and suddenly the car in front stopped and I just went down on the brakes and it knew I needed full power instantly and the brakes were able to achieve full braking power way faster then a normal brake system can achieve plus if I needed to steer the fact that the car can use the brakes to steer the car for me is really impressive. Honestly I think most of these cars had the SBC system replaced with new one that have 25 year warranties on them so I'm not worried. I think it was a very special year mercedes with a revolutionary technology that was actually pretty far ahead of its time. I also think that mercedes continues to use this technology on their commercial trucks and buses to this day as well
These systems are fantastic. They perform excellently and even have a backup small hydraulic unit in case of pump failure in models from 2003-2006. The initial electrical wiring and ground issues were recalled and fixed in updated models. There was also an issue with the brushes wearing out between 100k-200k miles in units- which gave SBC a bad wrap. Whole units were given a 25 year extended warranty last year, in the U.S. The unit that MB replaces it with has upgraded brushes and electronic components. The result is a very reliable, efficient, safe unit that owners of these cars will be given and installed as soon as their pumps fail until around the year 2030.
@@mosesberkowitz3298 not when Mercedes gives you a new updated unit. There is a 25 year warranty in the U.S. on these SBC units. The new units come with larger brushes and upgraded wiring harness. I have had no issues since.
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Kompressor. And 394,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
This system saved my ass a few time tbhs my 2005 w211 breaks so good and has way better Response of control I had no idea my car was equipped with SBC until I saw this video it's great to know more about your car
A little fun fact. Even though SBC has been killed off due to it being very unreliable, quite a number of its benefits, like drying the brake discs when they are wet and pre-charging the brake pads when the accelerator is suddenly released has been part of current ESC systems since SBC has been killed off. Furthermore, electro-hydraulic braking is making a bit of a comeback, especially as part of active driver-assistance systems.
They had these features even before SBC in 98. Brake drying, emergency priming (BAS), hold in 2001, etc. The only real benefit SBC had above the prior system is the hydraulic reservoir, it allowed the brake pressure to get up to full a few milliseconds earlier than the time it took the electric motor operated unit to spin up, though this would only be a benefit at times when the brakes were actuated by a control system and not the driver. Though I believe this could be replicated in the prior system though this would mean the electric motor would be running at all times basically. I believe the face lifted w163 ML performed this replication when the low gear transfer case was selected (and at certain speeds)
It sucks this SBC system was flawed. It’s a great system when it works properly. It stops so much quicker than conventional brakes and it’s saved my ass a few times from getting into an accident.
@@doxland Yup! I actually just got a letter from Mercedes saying their extending the warranty to 25 years/unlimited millage. It's great that their still supporting this unit
@@elkillerx Yeah, it's great that they do this in the US, but in the EU, you have to pay for it yourself. And the SBC pump isn't cheap, considering how cheap the cars are.
I monitor all English -language forums and to date recorded about 8 SBC failures around the World that were reported. Not bad for the number of cars equipped. Most of bad wrap comes form owners who buy the car extremely cheap due to all the whining and some time later got hit with high maintenance bill. The computer counts brake pushes and at about 600,000 pushes calls for pump replacement. Some extremist simply reset the counter and keep on driving.
I heard it was 300,000 counts, also there are much more than 8, perhaps 8 fatalities because of sbc? and hundreds of cases of brake failure. www.carcomplaints.com/Mercedes-Benz/E320/2003/brakes/service_brakes.shtml
Apparently there were a few instances where the electric system failed and the back up mechanical hydraulic master brake cylinder didn't work properly, leaving the driver with no brakes at all.
I try to avoid commenting on videos but some people here are ignorant and pass on poor information. If your "battery dies" you have nothing to fear, you have a spare battery just for the brakes. the r230 has two batteries one under the hood on the passenger side and one in the truck near the vario roof pump. If you have complete electrical failure, induced by poor electrical wiring or interference with aftermarket equipment the auxiliary brakes are still active, you WILL have brakes. 1:47-1:54
I just bought a 2003 E270 and the SBC unit was replaced in 2018 at the cost of £1300 to the last owner. So I'm glad that's something I shouldn't need worry about.
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Compressor. And 390,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
@@AS.MA_ The brake fluid should be changed every other year or 35,000 km as recommended by Mercedes. But the problem with SBC (Sensotronic Brake Control), I'm not entirely sure, probably has something to do with the brain of the system that controls everything. But this could happen tomorrow or never. our car has done 394,000km and is now 20 years old, still has the original SBC system and no problems. I think it's a bit of bad luck when it breaks, but anything can break on a car, that's just the way it is... But really, a fantastic system as long as it works!
This system would be perfect if there was a reasonable exchange system for a fair price. instead cars with sbc trouble now end up scrapped and thats just sad.
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Kompressor. And 394,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
W211 has 2 batteries one in front second in back under luggage part.small one control units only and second starts the car and some functions like major parts. By the way Mercedes goes without large battery. I really tried it. If your battery fails on a road it doesn't matter to any part of your car.
Its the fear of not understanding, thus it's normal. Most* hybrids use a similar system to aid in braking since a conventional vac. assisted sys will not work. SBC is rare compared to how many hybrids are on the road. servicing them is something best left to reputable shops, not always dealers. I can't speak for all the owners but most people that visit the shop I work for were more worried(vocal) about their radio than their electric brakes. Everything made by man can and will fail eventually.
Some use this method without even being hybrids, Volvo s40's, had electric vacuum pumps, water would seep in and result in pump failures->no more assist. I know there was a recall on said vehicle. There are many options for brake assists, the ones I hate most are brake by wire, see Mercedes sensatronic & Toyota/Lexus Electronic Brake Control Anyways EBC is what I'm used to and see most often on hybrids, its very similar to the SBC system, with the same quirks.
At severely reduced braking ability, like less than 40% of what you would normally have. Mercedes dropped SBC after a huge lawsuit. A guy driving an SL500 nearly killed himself when his SBC failed. Why don't you disable SBC on your SL, superbird, then try to slow from highway speeds in an emergency situation. See how much you like it.
You will have front brakes, at one point in time no car had assisted brakes, as a former beetle owner this would be nothing new the sudden power loss is whats scary. You cant expect complicated things as electric brakes to be flawless all the time, hybrids for example, they use a very similar method as mb when it comes to aiding in brakes while the engine is off, bleeding is a chore and not many people know how to do it(correctly). Even normal brakes can suffer from fade/power loss.
@4Absolut the battery locate under the air-condition filter . left top or right top . depends on which side is steering . As far as i know . If the battery fail . There will be no brakes . Except for the hand brakes because they are direct to the REAR brakes only .
If its so faulty elaborate on how dangerous current hybrids are that use the same function. the r190 weighs 4000-4700lb, I thought i mentioned its weight before, I missed it so my bad on that part, You can live without the assists and get used to it, but the car will blare at you with warnings visual, and audible. If* you choose to drive a car that has this failure you are made well aware of it. Similar warning while in dyno* mode. certified in 2011, so i'm diggin deep and looking up stuff.
I believe some hybrids are the conventional mechanical-hydraulic kind, but instead of a brake booster powered by the engine vacuum, an electric vacuum pump runs
@4Absolut well thats coz..it will operate with a secondary battery supply...so if the battery fail which it does normally .....you will have no braking system...coz they electric's are down . thats a shame so they had it till the W211 model but for the face lifted versions they removed it .
How it works on mercedes ? Press brake around 300 000 times. Then u see "Visit service" sign in front of you. Then u have to pay about 1500 euro to repair that bullshit
twice the SBC failed in my 87000 km car (2009 and 2013). No brakes, red light. I cannot sleep since the second time. Here in Spain they didn't recall for presafe. My woman doesn't want to go in the 54000 euros car any more. No more MB. Simon Hernandez
Another awesome invention by Bosch! Remember guys, the pump and the electronics were designed and manufactured by Bosch GmbH. Do not blame Mercedes for the Bosch piece of shit SBC pump which fails with time and use. In fact the vast majority of German car problems can be traced to Bosch products. Remember the fuel pump failures that BMW did a recall on because on all of their turbo cars (135i, 335i, 535i, X5 etc) the fuel pump would fail and leave the car stranded? Or even worse, die while the car is being driven and the engine would turn right off. Guess who made the fuel pump. Yup, Bosch GmbH. So blame Bosch, don't blame Mercedes. The Mercedes models which have SBC are the 2001 to 2012 SL, the 2003 to 2006 E class, and the 2004 to 2006 CLS. So if you don't want it, avoid those model years. Mercedes got rid of it after those models.
Don't be an apologist for Mercedes. They have worked hand in hand with Bosch for decades, and even if it was Bosch's design, Mercedes is responsible for testing it and approving it for their (supposedly) high-end motorcars. No outside supplier tells Mercedes what to do. I gave up on Mercedes almost 15 years ago precisely because of poor engineering like this. Their cars used to stand for excellence and durability. Now they just stand for greed.
In our W211 this piece of shit sometimes likes to go into emergency mode without any reason, after many workshop visits and a replacement of the SBC module it still happens. And on high speeds this emergency mode can cost a live. But nobody carres...
sounds like alot of things could go wrong with so much going on, Does it have a mechanic backup? so if any of the SBC pump fails what will happen? the old saying Keep It Simple Stupid.
I just bought a 2004 E500 w211 and the pump needs to be replaced. I have been told by my local dealer that no knows when but yes at any time i could lose all brake power. when the sbc stops working you are on the hydraulic system at that point. I have had the car 6 weeks and the sbc is out the cooling fan needs to be replaced an axle boot in the front and ac control valve for the rear and a air leak somewhere. over 3000 in repairs i gave 8600.00 for the car. Mercedes Benz should be replacing the sbc systems in these cars no matter how old. they dropped sbc after 2 years.
Hello I want to change my calipers on my E270. Can I bleed them traditionally, undoing the plug while brake pedal is under pressure? Sbc off, no diagnostic tool so maybe unplug both batteries?
Now it have a 25 years warranty on the sbc warranty. Weird they use this complex break system on a E class, mayback and the super car SLR. My sbc is giving warning on my e class is giving me warning now and the dealer have no ETA on the parts to arrive. The break still works fine thought, good for mercedes to warranty them for so long, but no dealer are willing to give out loaner cars.
Yeah finally mb warranties something screwed up for a real period of time, you're lucky. Unlike when their 90s cars got random wiring harnesses made of biodegradable soybean oil that "biodegraded" in the car way sooner than expected. No recall cause failure modes were just loss of engine running at worst. No extended warranty coverage for any appreciable amount of time cause hey screw you! Also let's double fist the customer and not sell replacement harnesses any longer than required by law! Another good one is the circa 98' E class models, the front spring mount is like a pocket where it mounts to the frame, as you can imagine this fills up with water soaked road debris and rusts it out causing the suspension to collapse. No recall because MB convinced the safety board the spring perch only collapsed while the tire was being steered at stop or slow speed. No extended warranty or anything but they did provide a terrible bolt on affair to repair it after it brakes! Oh, does coolant in the transmission absolutely ruin the transmission? It does? Well let's make sure to combine the two systems in a particularly weak plastic radiotor for almost no reason at all. Are some of those radiators ticking time bombs? Who cares! A service bulletin will do, No soup for you!
Spenser Roger yeah when merc and Chrysler were together, their product were bad quality. The earlier 3.5 v6 have a soft balance shaft that would go bad at 50k and a leaky gas tank. Good thing Mercedes extended warranty on the gas tank, but the balance shaft issue was per case issue. After they got rid of the sbc and Chrysler. The 2017-2019 w211 are very reliable cars.
Or save about £,1000 and change the brushes in the motor. So many mercedes models needlessly sold/given away because people can't be arsed to do a bit of research.
is there any software to make this and put any upgrade you like like turbo brakes engine then test it then try it what will happen if you crash whit these parts and that stuff?
@@sigmaSERVIS I am now sitting in a s211 2003mod with 390,000km on the odometer. SBC works exactly as it should. No issues. An absolutely fantastic system as long as it works properly. 👍
hello out there am in Africa Botswana in particular my SBC has started showing red and my car cant move it says reduced brake power depress brake fully! how do i fix this!?
SBC is a piece of crap and nearly had me killed a few days ago.As i was doing 70 on the highway a car cut in front of me and when I applied the brakes there was no response what so ever and the dash started flashing red.I made by the skin of my teeth and luckily didn't injure anyone else either in the process.Turned the car off and back on,everything went back to normal as if nothing ever happened.!
Yes, but a Beetle weighs what, 2000 pounds? Fully loaded? A Mercedes E-class or SL weighs around 5000-6000 pounds. So take a vehicle that is 3 times the weight, has at least 3 times the engine power (what, 80hp in a Beetle, up to 250hp in an E320), and you only have front brakes with no assist if the system fails. Are you sure you want to be in that car?
@Matthew Dawood Khaghani actually one of the big reasons I've since learned is when you have a direct hydraulic mechanical coupling to the brake and the ABS turns on, the pulsating back action in the pedal frightens drivers and tends to reduce their willingness to apply enough brake pressure, sometimes even causing them to lift off completely. The other benefit of brake by wire is you can have the brake pedal feel setup however you like, making it easier for example.
@Matthew Dawood Khaghani Yeah, theyre bad drivers some of them, but the studies reveal it's a common phenomenon...and I'd rather not get hit by them if I run into a situation with them on the road. I guess the lack of feel you describe, that must be why some drivers describe the driving of the car as "video-gamey". They must mean in the pedal too. Still, the feeling of the brake pedal should still be the same, more or less pressure on the pedal means more or less pressure in the caliper cylinders, means more or less stopping force. Modulating the brake to prevent activation of the ABS while still achieving maximum braking is almost impossible in a situation where the adhesion factor and tire loading is different for every wheel. Ie: anything other than braking in a straight line on dry pavement. I would therefore agree with you that a system like SBC that doesn't normally have a direct mechanical-hydraulic connection would not be ideal for track or racing driving. In other situations though, I'd disagree. And like I said earlier, a system like SBC is very safe when designed with features like redundant microprocessors & control electronics, redundant battery, back up direct mechanical-hydraulic master brake cylinder, and programming to do initial and continuous self checking of all elements as well as activation of the parking brake and engine braking in a fault condition. It's only that SBC had some well publicized failures that caused a few reported/alledged no backup master brake cylinder activations, plus the whole shut down at x number of activations fiasco and that when the back up cylinder was activated people complained of the unexpected pedal force required to stop car. Also; Modern ABS is much more effective at maintaining the highest braking rate with the best wheel slip factor than old "dumb" systems with less finer wheel speed sensors,, less algorithms, less valves/channels and lack of individual wheel braking, etc. I think the old systems is where a lot of the beliefs and truisms like "brakes are most effective at the point before the abs control range" come from. Based on your statement and theory about modulating the brake to before abs activation for example, let's say you're attempting to come to a panic /emergency brake stop and you feel 'ABS kick on' so you modulate your brake pedal force...well it's likely only one wheel was into the ABS control range, and now with your reduced pressure your well below the maximum brake force for much of the stop on all the other wheels and you've increased your required stopping distance! Not good chief! Also, I believe most other manufacturers are going or have gone to a non mechanical connection brake system, ie: brake by wire. It's the future.
Your car may have no brake fluid - leaked out. If that is the case you have to find the leak , refill the system (MB synthetic brake fluid) repair, bleed the brakes. W211 requires special procedure if equipped with SBC.
i had a 2003 e320 and after starting the car, the brake pedal would VIBRATE and make a wirrring noise. the brake fluid was good and there was no leaks or anything. it was unsettling
Today i went to House of Imports Mercedes Benz,at Stanton,Orange County.I met Mr Jag Reyatt,and my wife car been ABS {the light on say :"Servic brake Visit workshop" And he say :"If you come here soon,you have free for ABS,one time the brake did not work,when she applied on free way 3 days ago.and estimate fix it for 2,400.00 usd plus tax..Why my wife car can not get free for ABS.Some one know tell me about this,Please !
Except it was trash, and when the system failed ppl could not stop the cars, and panicked. MB was sued, and a 10 yr "goodwill warranty" was instilled for those vehicles with SBC.
When it fails it has no stooping power people!! Don't be fooled. I experienced it personally. No more than 5-10% of braking power. it is like earlier door to hell.
Simon Inglis you are comparing an older budget car to a much heavier luxury car. Of course the larger and heavier w211 will have a harder time braking than a Saab. Also, you can use conventional pads and discs on the w211.
This is so stupid MB quickly dropped it. A German engineer committing suicide would design an intricate chain of dominos that has a designed probability of failure to kill him.
Worst idea ever! That's why they got rid of it. It just moved the driver further from control of the vehicle. Not something that you want in a performance car - better suited to the high-end luxury (safety etc) BUT, they don't even use it anymore there. What genius came up with the idea to activate the brakes on a low level everytime you release the accelerator? And then put a limit on the number of times the pump could operate before forcing it's replacement. This was probably just something that the engineers thought was a lot of fun to design and model / implement. I think that marketing thought it was a good idea because of the "avant-garde" deign to separate them from competitors.
I think the 300k limit was intended to have you replace the brushes on the electric motor, or the entire motor itself. This is an easy, inexpensive repair and having a warning threshold was a good idea. The real design fault though is in how the emergency brake system is only on the front brakes and without power. It should just be a fully functional system then people have no reason to complain and no real reason to freak out and if you think about it the only extra part you would need is a cheap power brake vacuum reservoir thing, oh and a line tap into the back brakes. However the biggest faux pas appears to be activating the threshold warning while the car is driving. People freak out at any mention of the brakes and possible reduced function and thus remember the incident way different as a result and you end up with thousands of reports online of people claiming they were driving and then all of a sudden their brakes wouldn't work! Omg
i SO do not want to have this in my car. the price of this is astronomical AND it is programed to "failed" after 300 000 cycles as it then think it must be replaced for safety AND it is insane expensive. 3000$ is not uncommon for a "rebuilt" unit. .
I just bought a 2004 E500 w211 and the pump needs to be replaced. I have been told by my local dealer that no knows when but yes at any time i could lose all brake power. when the sbc stops working you are on the hydraulic system at that point. I have had the car 6 weeks and the sbc is out the cooling fan needs to be replaced an axle boot in the front and ac control valve for the rear and a air leak somewhere. over 3000 in repairs i gave 8600.00 for the car. Mercedes Benz should be replacing the sbc systems in these cars no matter how old. they dropped sbc after 2 years.
They have an extended the warranty to 10 years. Check with a dealer before you pay to replace it, I had my sbc pump act up back in 2009 and Mercedes replaced it free of charge and extended the warranty till 2019. The sbc pump itself did not fail it was more of a wiring issue that would cause the pump to shut off. Either way Mercedes replaced the entire pump and modified the wiring to prevent future problems.
This SBC in my W211 E270 probably saved me from a crash. Long story short, at a speed of 130kmh and while entering a corner i had to slow down abruptly, the speed was reduced by 50kmh in an instant and it was barely noticeable. Who didn't drive with this doesn't know the benefit, but of course it has it's own flaws, like that recall and dying off after some mileage, but for every problem, there is a solution. :)
I have to agree with you. Own a 2004 E320 W211 with SBC. The only disadvantage of this system is that is a money pit. But I'd rather pay $1000 for a new SBC pump than have the brakes system of the facelift W211. I've driven my friend's facelift W211 without SBC, it's good. But I very well noticed the difference of not having SBC. It saved my ass several times, and while it is expensive, those extra dollars that you put into it might someday save your life!
It's true I have a 2006 E320CDI and that is a really special year for the car because it has the CDI inline 6 turbo diesel and the SBC. I really like the SBC, yeah it has kind a plastic like feel and it's not the most precise modulation of power, but it can control the brake way better then I can on my own and when I'm driving hard and I need it, it's there way faster then any human could ever be. There's a few times I was going fast in traffic and suddenly the car in front stopped and I just went down on the brakes and it knew I needed full power instantly and the brakes were able to achieve full braking power way faster then a normal brake system can achieve plus if I needed to steer the fact that the car can use the brakes to steer the car for me is really impressive. Honestly I think most of these cars had the SBC system replaced with new one that have 25 year warranties on them so I'm not worried. I think it was a very special year mercedes with a revolutionary technology that was actually pretty far ahead of its time. I also think that mercedes continues to use this technology on their commercial trucks and buses to this day as well
These systems are fantastic. They perform excellently and even have a backup small hydraulic unit in case of pump failure in models from 2003-2006. The initial electrical wiring and ground issues were recalled and fixed in updated models. There was also an issue with the brushes wearing out between 100k-200k miles in units- which gave SBC a bad wrap. Whole units were given a 25 year extended warranty last year, in the U.S. The unit that MB replaces it with has upgraded brushes and electronic components. The result is a very reliable, efficient, safe unit that owners of these cars will be given and installed as soon as their pumps fail until around the year 2030.
They're fantastic when new. It's all downhill after the first couple years....
@@mosesberkowitz3298 not when Mercedes gives you a new updated unit. There is a 25 year warranty in the U.S. on these SBC units. The new units come with larger brushes and upgraded wiring harness. I have had no issues since.
How do I benefit from the replacement I am in Nigeria I own a E350 4matic benz the SBC is giving me serious issues.
@@oyeinkurokakemomarcodinhoa528 Try contacting Weststar (a Mercedes-Benz distributor in Lagos). They MAY know how to go about that.
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Kompressor. And 394,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
This system saved my ass a few time tbhs my 2005 w211 breaks so good and has way better Response of control I had no idea my car was equipped with SBC until I saw this video it's great to know more about your car
A little fun fact.
Even though SBC has been killed off due to it being very unreliable, quite a number of its benefits, like drying the brake discs when they are wet and pre-charging the brake pads when the accelerator is suddenly released has been part of current ESC systems since SBC has been killed off.
Furthermore, electro-hydraulic braking is making a bit of a comeback, especially as part of active driver-assistance systems.
Don't forget about the HOLD function too, it was also carried over from the SBC system
They had these features even before SBC in 98. Brake drying, emergency priming (BAS), hold in 2001, etc. The only real benefit SBC had above the prior system is the hydraulic reservoir, it allowed the brake pressure to get up to full a few milliseconds earlier than the time it took the electric motor operated unit to spin up, though this would only be a benefit at times when the brakes were actuated by a control system and not the driver. Though I believe this could be replicated in the prior system though this would mean the electric motor would be running at all times basically. I believe the face lifted w163 ML performed this replication when the low gear transfer case was selected (and at certain speeds)
@@SpenserRoger BAS was Introduced in the 90's, W140 mercedes with the V8 and V12 engines had it.
It sucks this SBC system was flawed. It’s a great system when it works properly. It stops so much quicker than conventional brakes and it’s saved my ass a few times from getting into an accident.
Extended Warranty on SBC now 25 years in US.
@@doxland Yup! I actually just got a letter from Mercedes saying their extending the warranty to 25 years/unlimited millage. It's great that their still supporting this unit
@@elkillerx Yeah, it's great that they do this in the US, but in the EU, you have to pay for it yourself. And the SBC pump isn't cheap, considering how cheap the cars are.
Anthony word! I got an 06 E350
@@doxland what about people in Europe do Mercedes have a 25-year warranty on their cars as well or is it US only
I monitor all English -language forums and to date recorded about 8 SBC failures around the World that were reported.
Not bad for the number of cars equipped.
Most of bad wrap comes form owners who buy the car extremely cheap due to all the whining and some time later got hit with high maintenance bill.
The computer counts brake pushes and at about 600,000 pushes calls for pump replacement. Some extremist simply reset the counter and keep on driving.
I heard it was 300,000 counts, also there are much more than 8, perhaps 8 fatalities because of sbc? and hundreds of cases of brake failure.
www.carcomplaints.com/Mercedes-Benz/E320/2003/brakes/service_brakes.shtml
Apparently there were a few instances where the electric system failed and the back up mechanical hydraulic master brake cylinder didn't work properly, leaving the driver with no brakes at all.
I try to avoid commenting on videos but some people here are ignorant and pass on poor information. If your "battery dies" you have nothing to fear, you have a spare battery just for the brakes. the r230 has two batteries one under the hood on the passenger side and one in the truck near the vario roof pump. If you have complete electrical failure, induced by poor electrical wiring or interference with aftermarket equipment the auxiliary brakes are still active, you WILL have brakes. 1:47-1:54
I just bought a 2003 E270 and the SBC unit was replaced in 2018 at the cost of £1300 to the last owner. So I'm glad that's something I shouldn't need worry about.
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Compressor. And 390,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
@@saccoearth007
Why does it get problem? do i need to change the brake fluid every 2 years? What do u recommend me
@@AS.MA_ The brake fluid should be changed every other year or 35,000 km as recommended by Mercedes. But the problem with SBC (Sensotronic Brake Control), I'm not entirely sure, probably has something to do with the brain of the system that controls everything. But this could happen tomorrow or never. our car has done 394,000km and is now 20 years old, still has the original SBC system and no problems. I think it's a bit of bad luck when it breaks, but anything can break on a car, that's just the way it is... But really, a fantastic system as long as it works!
SBC is a great system when working, makes breaking a breeze... but if it fails, which some Benz owners are experiencing now, its a very costly fix!
This system would be perfect if there was a reasonable exchange system for a fair price. instead cars with sbc trouble now end up scrapped and thats just sad.
The brushes in the sbc motor can be changed easily at low cost which makes them serviceable. It nearly put me off til I found out this.
I think Mercedes now has a 25 year warranty on the SBC pump which wasn't available at the time I wrote my original comment 10 years ago :)
Only in the USA….
Sitting right now in an s211 2003mod. E200 Kompressor. And 394,000km on the odometer. Still the original SBC system, no problems yet. A fantastically good braking system, as long as it works properly. 👍
W211 has 2 batteries one in front second in back under luggage part.small one control units only and second starts the car and some functions like major parts. By the way Mercedes goes without large battery. I really tried it. If your battery fails on a road it doesn't matter to any part of your car.
Most cars will still function with out the battery
Its the fear of not understanding, thus it's normal. Most* hybrids use a similar system to aid in braking since a conventional vac. assisted sys will not work. SBC is rare compared to how many hybrids are on the road. servicing them is something best left to reputable shops, not always dealers. I can't speak for all the owners but most people that visit the shop I work for were more worried(vocal) about their radio than their electric brakes. Everything made by man can and will fail eventually.
Is this video from 2000/2001, as it is very obvious they are trying to hide the design details of the R230 SL?
Some use this method without even being hybrids, Volvo s40's, had electric vacuum pumps, water would seep in and result in pump failures->no more assist. I know there was a recall on said vehicle. There are many options for brake assists, the ones I hate most are brake by wire, see Mercedes sensatronic & Toyota/Lexus Electronic Brake Control
Anyways EBC is what I'm used to and see most often on hybrids, its very similar to the SBC system, with the same quirks.
At severely reduced braking ability, like less than 40% of what you would normally have. Mercedes dropped SBC after a huge lawsuit. A guy driving an SL500 nearly killed himself when his SBC failed. Why don't you disable SBC on your SL, superbird, then try to slow from highway speeds in an emergency situation. See how much you like it.
You will have front brakes, at one point in time no car had assisted brakes, as a former beetle owner this would be nothing new the sudden power loss is whats scary. You cant expect complicated things as electric brakes to be flawless all the time, hybrids for example, they use a very similar method as mb when it comes to aiding in brakes while the engine is off, bleeding is a chore and not many people know how to do it(correctly). Even normal brakes can suffer from fade/power loss.
@4Absolut
the battery locate under the air-condition filter . left top or right top . depends on which side is steering . As far as i know . If the battery fail . There will be no brakes . Except for the hand brakes because they are direct to the REAR brakes only .
If its so faulty elaborate on how dangerous current hybrids are that use the same function. the r190 weighs 4000-4700lb, I thought i mentioned its weight before, I missed it so my bad on that part, You can live without the assists and get used to it, but the car will blare at you with warnings visual, and audible. If* you choose to drive a car that has this failure you are made well aware of it. Similar warning while in dyno* mode. certified in 2011, so i'm diggin deep and looking up stuff.
I believe some hybrids are the conventional mechanical-hydraulic kind, but instead of a brake booster powered by the engine vacuum, an electric vacuum pump runs
If SBC is so great why wad it recalled on 2003-2006 models and discontinued in 2007 for pre safe.
because it kept failing in cars.
@4Absolut
well thats coz..it will operate with a secondary battery supply...so if the battery fail which it does normally .....you will have no braking system...coz they electric's are down . thats a shame so they had it till the W211 model but for the face lifted versions they removed it .
How it works on mercedes ?
Press brake around 300 000 times.
Then u see "Visit service" sign in front of you.
Then u have to pay about 1500 euro to repair that bullshit
twice the SBC failed in my 87000 km car (2009 and 2013). No brakes, red light. I cannot sleep since the second time. Here in Spain they didn't recall for presafe. My woman doesn't want to go in the 54000 euros car any more. No more MB. Simon Hernandez
Don't blame mb, they didn't build or design the unit
Another awesome invention by Bosch! Remember guys, the pump and the electronics were designed and manufactured by Bosch GmbH. Do not blame Mercedes for the Bosch piece of shit SBC pump which fails with time and use. In fact the vast majority of German car problems can be traced to Bosch products. Remember the fuel pump failures that BMW did a recall on because on all of their turbo cars (135i, 335i, 535i, X5 etc) the fuel pump would fail and leave the car stranded? Or even worse, die while the car is being driven and the engine would turn right off. Guess who made the fuel pump. Yup, Bosch GmbH. So blame Bosch, don't blame Mercedes.
The Mercedes models which have SBC are the 2001 to 2012 SL, the 2003 to 2006 E class, and the 2004 to 2006 CLS. So if you don't want it, avoid those model years. Mercedes got rid of it after those models.
Don't be an apologist for Mercedes. They have worked hand in hand with Bosch for decades, and even if it was Bosch's design, Mercedes is responsible for testing it and approving it for their (supposedly) high-end motorcars. No outside supplier tells Mercedes what to do.
I gave up on Mercedes almost 15 years ago precisely because of poor engineering like this. Their cars used to stand for excellence and durability. Now they just stand for greed.
In our W211 this piece of shit sometimes likes to go into emergency mode without any reason, after many workshop visits and a replacement of the SBC module it still happens.
And on high speeds this emergency mode can cost a live. But nobody carres...
Seit 2007 wurde SBC im W211 nicht mehr verbaut. Nur noch im Maybach und der S-Klasse wird es weiter geführt.
sounds like alot of things could go wrong with so much going on, Does it have a mechanic backup? so if any of the SBC pump fails what will happen? the old saying Keep It Simple Stupid.
I just bought a 2004 E500 w211 and the pump needs to be replaced. I have been told by my local dealer that no knows when but yes at any time i could lose all brake power. when the sbc stops working you are on the hydraulic system at that point. I have had the car 6 weeks and the sbc is out the cooling fan needs to be replaced an axle boot in the front and ac control valve for the rear and a air leak somewhere. over 3000 in repairs i gave 8600.00 for the car. Mercedes Benz should be replacing the sbc systems in these cars no matter how old. they dropped sbc after 2 years.
Hello
I want to change my calipers on my E270. Can I bleed them traditionally, undoing the plug while brake pedal is under pressure? Sbc off, no diagnostic tool so maybe unplug both batteries?
Another reason why to buy an w211 facelift
Why do Mercedes E cars get 25 warranty on the SBC pump ? And in Europe NOW nothing ??? I wonder what would happen if you toke this before a judge.
Class action lawsuit made them give the us owners a extended warrant which is good because I just bought a e320 cdi with sbc
Now it have a 25 years warranty on the sbc warranty. Weird they use this complex break system on a E class, mayback and the super car SLR. My sbc is giving warning on my e class is giving me warning now and the dealer have no ETA on the parts to arrive. The break still works fine thought, good for mercedes to warranty them for so long, but no dealer are willing to give out loaner cars.
Yeah finally mb warranties something screwed up for a real period of time, you're lucky.
Unlike when their 90s cars got random wiring harnesses made of biodegradable soybean oil that "biodegraded" in the car way sooner than expected. No recall cause failure modes were just loss of engine running at worst. No extended warranty coverage for any appreciable amount of time cause hey screw you! Also let's double fist the customer and not sell replacement harnesses any longer than required by law!
Another good one is the circa 98' E class models, the front spring mount is like a pocket where it mounts to the frame, as you can imagine this fills up with water soaked road debris and rusts it out causing the suspension to collapse. No recall because MB convinced the safety board the spring perch only collapsed while the tire was being steered at stop or slow speed. No extended warranty or anything but they did provide a terrible bolt on affair to repair it after it brakes!
Oh, does coolant in the transmission absolutely ruin the transmission? It does? Well let's make sure to combine the two systems in a particularly weak plastic radiotor for almost no reason at all. Are some of those radiators ticking time bombs? Who cares! A service bulletin will do, No soup for you!
Spenser Roger yeah when merc and Chrysler were together, their product were bad quality. The earlier 3.5 v6 have a soft balance shaft that would go bad at 50k and a leaky gas tank. Good thing Mercedes extended warranty on the gas tank, but the balance shaft issue was per case issue.
After they got rid of the sbc and Chrysler. The 2017-2019 w211 are very reliable cars.
@AHC63AMG where does locate this battery ?? If this batt fail does the brake functions , there no brake to car ?? thanks a lot for your reply
After around 300,000 brake depressions the unit sends a message meaning you need to replace it :-( £1200 cost
Or save about £,1000 and change the brushes in the motor. So many mercedes models needlessly sold/given away because people can't be arsed to do a bit of research.
SBC became a nightmare of mercedes owners.
is there any software to make this and put any upgrade you like like turbo brakes engine then test it then try it what will happen if you crash whit these parts and that stuff?
Guess what? It failed, badly.
if you don't change brake fluid i have w211 400 000km no pronlems.dirty oil can ruin enythying
@@sigmaSERVIS I am now sitting in a s211 2003mod with 390,000km on the odometer. SBC works exactly as it should. No issues. An absolutely fantastic system as long as it works properly. 👍
Electronic brake control sounds great, what if the car ages and the system fails ? It will be a very-very expensive repair work....ouch ! ! !
But only because of low voltage by to many electric systems. After 2005 it works fine.
hello out there am in Africa Botswana in particular my SBC has started showing red and my car cant move it says reduced brake power depress brake fully! how do i fix this!?
@@Slavic_Boer what do i do when i get to the dealer?
Pre charging is good
I'm looking to buy a w211, but this looks like an accident waiting to happen...
Great system in paper, not good after 15/20 years
@JET997u why is a disastrous failure ?? Can you give some argument please
I have this on my 2006 E350 I believe, but fixed maybe it was?
M&N Distribution 2006 + series don’t have sbc
@@zbifyidek I think it depends how early in 2006 it was made. And sometimes car is made in 2005 but registered in 2006. So 2007+ is best to be sure.
but how do you replace it? is there any extra precaution?
SBC is a piece of crap and nearly had me killed a few days ago.As i was doing 70 on the highway a car cut in front of me and when I applied the brakes there was no response what so ever and the dash started flashing red.I made by the skin of my teeth and luckily didn't injure anyone else either in the process.Turned the car off and back on,everything went back to normal as if nothing ever happened.!
Yes, but a Beetle weighs what, 2000 pounds? Fully loaded? A Mercedes E-class or SL weighs around 5000-6000 pounds. So take a vehicle that is 3 times the weight, has at least 3 times the engine power (what, 80hp in a Beetle, up to 250hp in an E320), and you only have front brakes with no assist if the system fails. Are you sure you want to be in that car?
what was wrong with a servo
They wanted instant pressure for any of the electronic driving aids so they could function a few milliseconds faster
@Matthew Dawood Khaghani actually one of the big reasons I've since learned is when you have a direct hydraulic mechanical coupling to the brake and the ABS turns on, the pulsating back action in the pedal frightens drivers and tends to reduce their willingness to apply enough brake pressure, sometimes even causing them to lift off completely.
The other benefit of brake by wire is you can have the brake pedal feel setup however you like, making it easier for example.
@Matthew Dawood Khaghani
Yeah, theyre bad drivers some of them, but the studies reveal it's a common phenomenon...and I'd rather not get hit by them if I run into a situation with them on the road.
I guess the lack of feel you describe, that must be why some drivers describe the driving of the car as "video-gamey". They must mean in the pedal too.
Still, the feeling of the brake pedal should still be the same, more or less pressure on the pedal means more or less pressure in the caliper cylinders, means more or less stopping force.
Modulating the brake to prevent activation of the ABS while still achieving maximum braking is almost impossible in a situation where the adhesion factor and tire loading is different for every wheel. Ie: anything other than braking in a straight line on dry pavement.
I would therefore agree with you that a system like SBC that doesn't normally have a direct mechanical-hydraulic connection would not be ideal for track or racing driving.
In other situations though, I'd disagree. And like I said earlier, a system like SBC is very safe when designed with features like redundant microprocessors & control electronics, redundant battery, back up direct mechanical-hydraulic master brake cylinder, and programming to do initial and continuous self checking of all elements as well as activation of the parking brake and engine braking in a fault condition. It's only that SBC had some well publicized failures that caused a few reported/alledged no backup master brake cylinder activations, plus the whole shut down at x number of activations fiasco and that when the back up cylinder was activated people complained of the unexpected pedal force required to stop car.
Also;
Modern ABS is much more effective at maintaining the highest braking rate with the best wheel slip factor than old "dumb" systems with less finer wheel speed sensors,, less algorithms, less valves/channels and lack of individual wheel braking, etc. I think the old systems is where a lot of the beliefs and truisms like "brakes are most effective at the point before the abs control range" come from.
Based on your statement and theory about modulating the brake to before abs activation for example, let's say you're attempting to come to a panic /emergency brake stop and you feel 'ABS kick on' so you modulate your brake pedal force...well it's likely only one wheel was into the ABS control range, and now with your reduced pressure your well below the maximum brake force for much of the stop on all the other wheels and you've increased your required stopping distance!
Not good chief!
Also, I believe most other manufacturers are going or have gone to a non mechanical connection brake system, ie: brake by wire. It's the future.
my SBC is making noise when ever i unlock the car or step on the brake pedal and wont change gears
l
Your car may have no brake fluid - leaked out. If that is the case you have to find the leak , refill the system (MB synthetic brake fluid) repair, bleed the brakes. W211 requires special procedure if equipped with SBC.
i had a 2003 e320 and after starting the car, the brake pedal would VIBRATE and make a wirrring noise. the brake fluid was good and there was no leaks or anything.
it was unsettling
This is notmal it was pre charging
When the actuator goes, you're fucked. This is a safety problem, not a safety feature.
Today i went to House of Imports Mercedes Benz,at Stanton,Orange County.I met Mr Jag Reyatt,and my wife car been ABS {the light on say :"Servic brake Visit workshop"
And he say :"If you come here soon,you have free for ABS,one time the brake did not work,when she applied on free way 3 days ago.and estimate fix it for 2,400.00 usd plus tax..Why my wife car can not get free for ABS.Some one know tell me about this,Please !
Except it was trash, and when the system failed ppl could not stop the cars, and panicked. MB was sued, and a 10 yr "goodwill warranty" was instilled for those vehicles with SBC.
When it fails it has no stooping power people!! Don't be fooled. I experienced it personally. No more than 5-10% of braking power.
it is like earlier door to hell.
Happened to me 3 times wasn’t able to stop had to put the car in neutral and pull over
So many things to go wrong...
my only issue is the whole breaking experience feels synthetic and un natural.
Sealed & dirt roads. Our 01 Saab brakes better/sooner than our w211. Says it all. Oh, the Saab uses ordinary pads/discs from any auto shop.
Simon Inglis you are comparing an older budget car to a much heavier luxury car. Of course the larger and heavier w211 will have a harder time braking than a Saab. Also, you can use conventional pads and discs on the w211.
This is a dumb overengineerd system that will go bad by intervalls of about 80000miles / 130000km....
This is so stupid MB quickly dropped it.
A German engineer committing suicide would design an intricate chain of dominos that has a designed probability of failure to kill him.
Awesome cars ruined by a flawed design
design is good, but like everything, complicated stuff can break
And I can call BS on most of the claims made here. More so when the system fails.
if u buy a mercedes with sbc better think 1 millions of time.the mos shitty break system.the death car.u will never be safe
Worst idea ever! That's why they got rid of it. It just moved the driver further from control of the vehicle. Not something that you want in a performance car - better suited to the high-end luxury (safety etc) BUT, they don't even use it anymore there.
What genius came up with the idea to activate the brakes on a low level everytime you release the accelerator? And then put a limit on the number of times the pump could operate before forcing it's replacement.
This was probably just something that the engineers thought was a lot of fun to design and model / implement. I think that marketing thought it was a good idea because of the "avant-garde" deign to separate them from competitors.
I think the 300k limit was intended to have you replace the brushes on the electric motor, or the entire motor itself. This is an easy, inexpensive repair and having a warning threshold was a good idea.
The real design fault though is in how the emergency brake system is only on the front brakes and without power. It should just be a fully functional system then people have no reason to complain and no real reason to freak out and if you think about it the only extra part you would need is a cheap power brake vacuum reservoir thing, oh and a line tap into the back brakes.
However the biggest faux pas appears to be activating the threshold warning while the car is driving. People freak out at any mention of the brakes and possible reduced function and thus remember the incident way different as a result and you end up with thousands of reports online of people claiming they were driving and then all of a sudden their brakes wouldn't work! Omg
The stupiest thing ever.Shame to mercedes for not giving a full refund without questions asked.
i SO do not want to have this in my car. the price of this is astronomical AND it is programed to "failed" after 300 000 cycles as it then think it must be replaced for safety AND it is insane expensive. 3000$ is not uncommon for a "rebuilt" unit. .
I bought a new SBC module direct from Mercedes and it was 1000 USD, rebuilt. Sucks to drop money but not the end of the world.
Sbc sucks
SBC is too complicated and has reliability issues, no wonder they removed it already during the 2007 models of w211
Glad my 2009 doesn't have it
I just bought a 2004 E500 w211 and the pump needs to be replaced. I have been told by my local dealer that no knows when but yes at any time i could lose all brake power. when the sbc stops working you are on the hydraulic system at that point. I have had the car 6 weeks and the sbc is out the cooling fan needs to be replaced an axle boot in the front and ac control valve for the rear and a air leak somewhere. over 3000 in repairs i gave 8600.00 for the car. Mercedes Benz should be replacing the sbc systems in these cars no matter how old. they dropped sbc after 2 years.
They have an extended the warranty to 10 years. Check with a dealer before you pay to replace it, I had my sbc pump act up back in 2009 and Mercedes replaced it free of charge and extended the warranty till 2019. The sbc pump itself did not fail it was more of a wiring issue that would cause the pump to shut off. Either way Mercedes replaced the entire pump and modified the wiring to prevent future problems.