Electronic Brakes Have a Terrifying Problem
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
- Thanks to Autozone for sponsoring today’s video. Click here to learn more about the Fix Finder www.autozone.com/lp/fix-finder and find your nearest Autozone location at this link www.autozone.com/locations/
Electronic brakes are popping up everywhere... but are they worth it? Are they even safe? Today on B2B we take an Audi E-Tron for a spin to show you how these new brakes work, and reveal the scary truth behind them.
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I'm so glad they blurred the logo on the side of the bike. I truly have no clue what brand that could possibly be.
Neither could I! Just too small and blurry
@@Ro99 I just had one of those small and blurry drinks. uNlEaSh ThE bEaSt and all that
The Yamaha logo was wasn't censored tho.
Isn't both a product placement (not on purpose)?
Duuh, we all know it's Red Bull
It is a Yamaha, I could see it on the seat. They tried blurring the Monster drink Logo.
It's no worries if you lose power with electronic breaks! As Audi describes, if you lose power, a check valve means your electronically controlled breaks are now regular old hydraulic brakes, and your foot does all the work again. Phew! 😅 And, electronic brakes have the added benefit of being able to stop with the brake fluid boiling, as they can pressurize the "air" enough to stop the car, versus a brake pedal which just hits the floor, and then you're done. Neat!1!1
be honest Jason, you're buliding your own brakes.
Notice spelling of [brakes]
Now explain this with a whiteboard, please
based fact checker
Dual-systems are great! But an all-electric braking system... Imagine the carnage that would happen when a solar flare eventually hits us 😬
I think I remember an F-22 test pilot giving a lecture and mentioning the new fighter jets had the control stick not move at all, it would sense the pressure the pilot exerted on it, and how it was really weird for the human pilots and they had to design sticks that moved.
I may be incorrect, but I think this was something first tried in the F-16, and since humans are better at knowing the position of our limbs than how much pressure we're exerting with them, they found it was more intuitive to build some movement back in to avoid feedback loops of pilots overcorrecting errors. I wonder if the f-22 control stick was identical!
My source is "The insane engineering of the F-16" by Real Engineering, around 22:30.
I like the title and the explanation of the basics. There's even more to it: In May 2004, Mercedes recalled 680,000 vehicles to fix their complex brake-by-wire system. Then, in March 2005, 1.3 million cars were recalled, partly because of further unspecified problems with the Sensotronic Brake Control system. If the electrical break failed, they had a classical foot driven hydraulik backup, but only to the front wheels and without the typical vacuum servo assistance. That happening without pre warning resulted in way longer brake distances, subsequently leading to some accidants of almost brand new, well maintained upper class cars. In 2006 they discontinued the system in the E- and S-class limousines.
Secondly: There were cars, that had no direct hydraulic connection from the break pedal Movement and no feedback at all: The Citroen DS and CX upper class cars had just a foot controlled, spring loaded hydraulic valve for breaking. A single belt driven pump provided hydraulic pressure for the breaks, the clutch, hydropneumatic suspension including the dampeners and for the power steering, that also had no mechanical connection to the steering gear (but a mechanical fallback with extremely wide dead clearance) . Buyers loved the lack of feedback, testers hated it. They sold 2.5 Million from 1955 to 1991, not so bad for upper class cars of legendary complexity and maintanance costs. If the pump failed, there were several storage tanks, that provided full usability for some more minutes. For example after 20 times of breaking, it stopped working and you were left alone with the mechanical handbreak with litereally coin sized brake pads (on the Citroen CX). The system worked surprisingly well, the safety record was flawless.
OK but this Autozone ad should literally be a Commercial. This is full quality
Honestly it's S tier, came in with the complimentary 4th wall breaks
Did you know that the autozone ad is technically a commercial! Oh you meant that it should be on national tv? Why? And what is full quality? Do others only do partial quality? I think you meant “high” not “full”
💯
@@sirloin4372 I agree with what this guy said
@@sirloin4372 Why are you so condescending? He was complimenting their level of skill in producing an advertisement. His positivity really set you off didn’t it?
It just sounds like hydraulic brakes with extra steps.
Lol rick and morty 😂😂
It pretty much is.
It is lol, I think donut might be paying for comments
lmao i was just about to comment this
Sounds like a good ole pos German vehicle
Regenerative braking can actually be done so well, that you hardly use the regular brakes at all. In fact, if you press the brake, it will also regen brake first.
One pedal driving is a common thing in EVs. You are just using the actual brake calipers when you have to brake more in unexpected situations, or you just driving faster, requiring more brake power to stop for the red light.
Agree to that. Regen braking (especially if you have front motor) can cover 99% of traffic situations. New trend for electric commuter cars is to reduce max speed anyway, so all that means that brake overheating will not be an issue. Ventilated disk will not be necessary, brake calipers and pads can be also made smaller and lighter. Additional bonus is the reduced unsprung weight...
Of course, with performance cars, it is another cup of coffee :-)
Same concept as driving an ATV or side by side with a CVT transmission, one pedal driving. Those cvts have very snappy engine braking ability
@@drazenradosevic7467 Normal size pads still needed for emergency situations, but you basically never need to change them since they are rarely used under normal driving. The Model S Plaid under full breaking from top speed to zero, even with regenerative braking to assist, the calipers get very hot. This is a bit of an extreme situation, but there is a need.
This is the answer of when electric brakes will be common on cars.
It will only happen after the majority of drivers are driving EVs with regenerative braking. Once people get used it, and get comfortable with regen braking, they'll be more receptive to fully electric system.
I put 6500 miles on my hybird & I thought something was wrong with my brakes. Come find out I never broke in the pads
I've had first hand experience with brake loss when exiting 70mph interstate to 25mph off-ramp to a stop sign. So happy my e-brake worked.
I miss having my personal in-car flute player… Joseph was a good man, and was quite the wizard with the flute.
He was ssooo good
I had a 10 year old in my car he didn't know how to play flute but he was good at other things, i miss him a lot😪
I bought a Chad, all they do is play my girlfriend
Ah, yes. Good old days.
@@alimaroof2111 I feel like you should rephrase that
Those gas caps can be tricky. Glad we could help you get back on the road. Come on back whenever you need to troubleshoot a check engine light.
Haha that was actually a really funny ad. Thanks for supporting Donut - they are awesome.
👋🏽
My local autozone doesn't know who makes a Prius I hung up and went to oreileys sorry. It was a cutsomers car
@@gamercoolapple1 well, it's a Prius. So it's no big deal.
@@sstace69 true but still they everywhere like wild fire they should know its Toyota lol
The Citroën DS also had an assisted break with no feedback in the break-"button", people did get used to it.
Indeed… I had an SM, which had the same system. These cars had a high-pressure hydraulic pump that actually supplied the pressure. Your foot on the “mushroom” simply opened a valve. Yes, we got used to it, but these were by no means sports cars… It is the equivalent of a steering system that gives very little road feel. There was an accumulator in the system, so that you still had a pressure reserve in the event of the engine quitting on you… which the Maserati V6 had a anasty habit of doing, in very bad ways…
Also, any vehicle with air brakes will not give any feedback.
"now electrical failures, we see those all the time" So lets make one of the most important safety systems on a car electrical vs hydraulic which rarely fails. Brilliant!!
He meant that we are surrounded with way more electronics than hydraulics, not that electronics are inherently more failure-prone than hydraulics.
Wow you completely missed the point, good job!
Current electronic brakes are just hydraulic brakes with extra steps
Extra steps equal more parts breaking
@@dafin7378 exactly
As the video said, there are several perks, and also:
1/ electric brakes can stop the car even if there's hydraulic failure, and redundancy is good for safety and reliability
2/ it can be controlled electronically that might be able to assist with self-driving
3/ regenerative braking can improve fuel economy
Regenerative braking is going to be really important in future as cars are becoming more and more efficient.
I worked in electrical technology in my high-school a year ago and what I've learned is the more simple and tough you can make something the more reliable it will be
"The scariest thing is wanting to stop and not being able to"
Engine braking: *sad noises*
#paulwalker
It's a little too slow
Turning off the car: Am I a joke to you?
That’s why you drive a manual. Just moneyshift into first and you’ll be stopped reeeaaaal quick.
The amount of people thinking I’m serious about this as a legit strategy to stop is hilarious.
@@downwithtrudeau shut up please, we remember him but we don't need to be reminded every day
The Nissan Leaf does this in an admirably simple way: the master cylinder is just set back about an inch and a half from the pedal arm, so the first 2 inches or so of pedal travel are just an input to the computer asking for regen braking, but if you push further, you hit the master cylinder and apply the friction brakes. so even with no power (12V and traction battery disconnected) you still have conventional braking to stop the car. The power steering works the same way, just with an electric pump instead of a belt driven one.
I don’t even trust my toaster to toast my bread well enough, so I’m definitely not trusting electric brakes lol
Sunbeam radiant control toaster. Perfectly toasted everytime. No settings. All mechanical. Cool little automatic operation. Did i say completely mechanical? Oh you can toast frozen bread too
This is very dumb. Electronic systems are inherently more reliable than mechanical systems, failures of electronics are failures of software, but not at all software is created equal
@@annacrow9716 failure is failure. Period. And in my experience with consumer electronics they absolutely fail at far higher rates than older mechanical systems. They are designed to fail not last. The idea is to sell more not sell one.
@@annacrow9716 Ever hear of tin whiskers?
@@robertmisiuk7137 yes, irrelevant
This was literally uploaded the day after my electronic parking break froze in the middle of the road when I was going 40 and did not let me move for 30 min
What car?
@@nolsova1140 2011 audi s4
Never liked electric park brake, not fun in the winter 😅
I’ve never seen a electric parking activate randomly while someone was driving.
@@chrisjackd yeah idk what's wrong and im too scared to drive it now :( its happen 5 times in the past couple days
imagine driving your car with the feel of the logitech g29 pedals.
The brake pedal on the G29 feels realistic, it’s the clutch that has no feedback whatsoever
@@TylerN945 the g29 is a great wheel and pedal combo but the break is no where near realistic
@@vbence12 Feels fine to me. Newer cars have a short traveling brake pedals that feels stiff. The G29 replicates that perfectly imo. Only older cars (90s and back) have spongy further traveling pedals.
@@TylerN945 they are fine, more than fine they are great. But breaks, even modern ones, are pressure operated and provide (at least some) feedback based on the tire grip and break staus. Which can't be replicated with simple potentiometer and springs.
There are mods to make it feel HEAPS better.
Research the duel rate springs etc.
Brakes will always need a backup system. As in power brakes and power steering. Parts critical for the safety just need a working manual override. BTW, about no power situation: it's actually solvable. Think of the brakes that are "normally closed" and you need to actually provide power to lose them. The hard part is to make it energy efficient and fast at the same time.
So you're doing 75 mph on the interstate, the electronics for the brakes' take a dump and your brakes lock on......Yea great idea.
I’ll pass on fully electric including brakes…
"We don't know much about hydraulic failures"
East coast mechanics: And I took that personally
Get the NEW York times 😀😂😃😄
Get a NEW job was 😉😊😎😎
Get the NEW York 😙😚🙂🤗😍
The bots are evolving
Checked the replies to get further context, I think I found it??
"because we aren't that familiar with hydraulic failure" as someone who's driven plenty of 20+ year old shitboxs in the rust belt I'm pretty familiar with it
ruclips.net/video/Vzbx492xRLY/видео.html
Vice grips stay in a glove box or trunk
Not everyone is familiar with hydraulic failure.
Honda and Toyota use completely plastic coated brake lines. Just something to think about. I've got a 15 year old relatively rusty Acura here. Brake lines are pristine.
when will automakers make stainless line an option for rust belt states........
Also, You know how most older cars have a parking brake in the form of a large lever instead of a button on some cars? That's not only to keep your car still when It's parked.
It's also a last ditch emergency brakes, connected to your brakes directly by steel wire.
Also another nice thing with manuals, you can downshift to PREEETTY high RPM's over what you usually use on a normal car and then use the handbrake to catch the last bit of braking.
Most important thing a handbrake is for: Drifting.
On the other hand, modern e-brakes (I heard that it's not universal but german cars usually do it) are designed to bring a car safely to a stop (aka with ABS). Holding the e-brake will override pedal inputs so it will also work for the passenger if the driver falls unconscious.
Losing power in a car with power brakes is also terrifying. Not only can you really not brake, steering is also super difficult (power steering). This happened to my wife while descending a very long hill. She had to use the EMERGENCY brake to stop the car. Thank god that wasn't electric, but an old-fashioned cable/handle type.
@@justayoutuber1906
Really irks me that we'd make something that can be life saving worse just for some quality of life.
It's not too common here in Europe, luckily. most cars I've been in here still have hand brakes.
That is also what they're called in Swedish. We're quite literal.
I think electronic breaks should be designed in a similar manner to air breaks where breaks are automatically applied when power is lost. Though my preferred braking system is mechanical breaks.
that's how most are designed tho
So, if for some reason you end up with no energy in the middle of the road... How do you, you know, push the car to the side of the road, for safety reasons?
The Audi Etron’s brake system is just a regular brake system with extra steps lmao
@@huleyn135 Nope, if the lines on the brake fail, your foot would feel like you're normally braking but on the tire side it'd be squirting fluids
I believe electric parking brakes have an emergency stop mode by holding the button. Consult your vehicle’s owner’s manual obviously
I'm 90% sure it's supposed to have the same function as the vacuum booster (electric motors have no vaccum) and make the pedal lighter
@@Justpassingb1 usually electric e brakes have an emergency mode when pulled at speed, and it brakes the car and even uses the abs data to not lock up
Just like everything that the Germans make over complicate a simple system
"If it ain't broke, make it more complex" Germans
You mean if it ain't broke change it until it'll fail so people have to pay us to fix it
@@JohnDoe-nf7up eh, that's more of a "every company that has shareholders" thing more than a "germany" thing.
1940's alternative:
"If its broke, tape a bigger gun onto it"
@@jielynsabarez2693 Tape being the keyword.
Also Germans: let's place here and there a non standard screws so no one can repair it in the field without proper screwdriver. I just "love" how they over engineer something simple 😂
Car manufacturers are simply scared of advertising that their new car comes with BBW.
Big busty women? Why? Wouldn’t that be great for business? Sure seems like it would
Lmao
Yeah no... You mentioned how brake lines leaking are an issue with the "old" style of brakes, but that isn't fixed either with e-brakes. And you said it was simpler? What?? These are the same parts + now you've got position sensor, computer software, servos, cylinder to simulate feel, ... This isn't simpler... Not in the slightest. And is totally unnecessary for most people.
No no. Audi's ebrake system is not the system he was talking about when he meant "fully electronic". He was talking about an actually fully electronic system with no mechanical parts, where an electric motor would clamp your brake caliper onto the rotor.
The current braking method does have issues with leaks and whatnot. But nothing that happens usually within the first 5-10 years of the vehicles life span.
@@Malohdek im pretty sure fully electric brakes would/do still use hydraulics
@@dirtrider88 then it won't be fully electric
@@NaddlyC well shit, solid argument. putting a electric motor on each caliper seems ridiculous. electronics and heat dont mix well. well you have a motor creating its own heat plus the heat of the brakes your asking for a failure.
@@dirtrider88 one more reason why there are no fully electric brakes
Really wanted Nolan to say, "Get in the zone, Autozone."
Of all the zones, I prefer the Low-cal Calzone Zone.
Massive evidence out of AZ and Georgia. Congress needs to decertify Bidens electors as the proof is there.
@@loganm2766 Wolverine got annoying in 2020 😒
Get the NEW York 😀😁🤣😄
Get a job at a 😆😊😎😍
Why is that the best autozone commercial I’ve ever seen
cause that was a hot lady at autozone hahaha
@@PhuocNguyen-qm9uh lmao its true though lol
Because the bar was so low.
Shit I work at autozone everybody be taking advantage of that obd reader
because the mustang was rolling backwards, no handbrake lol
I had my brake line burst on my Silverado coming up to a red light @ 50MPH. F'n terrifying. Was able to jump on the shoulder and pump what was left of the brakes before hitting intersection. So hydraulic isn't perfect either. For electronic brakes, you would absolutely need some form of fail-safe system like railway air brakes. So that if all power is cut, the brakes are applied. An example could be a spring powered clamping brake pad that's held open when there's power but clamps disk if power is lost. Would really suck having car suddenly stop by itself but way better that suddenly zero brakes, I can attest to that personally.
That's probably only from lack of maintenance though
Handbrake? Or is it 'E-brake' in US? Which I thought meant electronic, but means emergency in that case?
So now if your electronic brakes fail, you still have hydraulic, and if they fail, you have e-brake, and if that fails, you can engine brake shifting down, but maybe not if you're using automatic transmission. Simple....?
Sounds like damage or poor maintenance. That is no criticism of hydraulic brakes.
Have a boat anchor drop from under where the spare usually rides!
[*boat anchor pops off a pothole and smashes your rear window. 😂]
Having used fully electric trailer brakes for ten years now. I can confirm that there is no pedal feedback. But I do feel it in my shoulder belt when I put the pedal to the floor. 😅
Using a dirt bike to show different stuff on a car is super smart and I hope you keep doing it. It has a easy to understand simplicity but still explains what is happening accurately.
That Autozone sponsor ad was solid enough to be an actual TV spot.
Yeah I was really surprised by the quality
And every bit as annoying.
these guys will be on TV soon for sure
I think autozone might have camera quality requirements for their advertisements. Their ads always look great
Fix finder... Lol they won't clear the code to turn off the check engine light even after the issue is fixed so what's the point? You're still going to need either your own scanner or a shop scanner.
We actually tested electronic brakes with a kill switch and the ones I was using actually had a really good manual mode. The booster was almost unnecessary for normal breaking pressure.
It's great to see how comfortable u are here since your first video, Jeremiah! Awesome content, I had good laugh while I learn!
Although the electrification of cars excites me, I can't wait for things to come full circle and for people to sell cars with mechanical systems as a 'premium' feature that feel 'authentic' and 'analog' lmao
Thats exactly whats going to happen. The writing is on the wall. Electric vehicles are the future and they will eventually be the demise of the ICE. However these "classic sports cars" are going to be worth a crazy chunk of change in the next 25 years or so.
Will be the same with watches, 99% will wear Quartz or Smartwatches and enthusiasts will stay at automatic
@@ryanbernard6550 don't be too sure about that, the only reason is that governments are trying to force them onto people. If that wasn't the case most people wouldn't touch them. Case in point any time a government cuts or drops rebates on them.
The same thing will happen with electricity generation, all the green techs suck, engineers know this, but get paid a lot of money to look the other way.
@@matthewfarrell317 you are delusional if you actually believe it. You will have trouble naming any major company that won't go fully EV in the next 5-10 years, you can deny it all you want or blame it on some conspiracy ✌🏻
I mean… it kinda already has happened. Look at cars like the Ariel atom. People love those because they’re lightweight, but mostly because there “analog”
Manual transmission, no ABS, no stability control, I think no power steering either
Normal car people when check engine light comes on:*drives anyways*
Nolan: “gotta push the car to autozone”
Cant risk the sweet 'stang brah
Massive evidence out of AZ and Georgia. Congress needs to decertify Bidens electors as the proof is there.🇺🇸🇺🇸
I went to autozone...
You know what they said?
The same thing my OBD2 sensor said. Encrypted
Had to take it to the Range Rover Dealership, and they fixed her right up for me. Take that autozone.
@@aceggkspade958 next time get a real car
@@bassam_salim hahaha your an idiot. free fix under warranty. As for real car... have you driven the range rovers? They are the most comfortable intuitive design SUV’s. Plus they are baller as hell, even people that hate on them still secretly want one
Gets in a wreck. "Aye sorry, bro my cars lagging."
My friend bough a 2007 Mazda Demio. It drove crazy and the steering would suddenly become stiff and even, not work at all - terrifying. It was a loose battery connection. Once sorted - no problems. That was my introduction to electrical steering.
That Audi just looks like a ‘out of warranty’ nightmare.
When you buy one, buy it new and opt for the extended warranty. When the extended warranty expires, dump it like a hot potato.
It’s an German vehicle. It is an out of warranty nightmare, end of story
@@davidelzinga9757 not true Skoda which belongs to VW AG has some of the most reliable cars, and it shares engines, and pretty much all parts of the suspension with Audi, VW, Seat and even Porsche;
US cars are not in top 10 of the most reliable cars but Skoda and VW are.
@@krisg822 as an American former ASE master certified automotive technician, I can testify to what I’ve said out of experience. I’ve even owned at VW that hit 160,000 miles, and suddenly cost me a minimum of $400 usd in at cost parts per month for 4 months (not including labor, before a tiny chain slide let loose and bent valves. I fixed it, sold it, and that winter it returned because the brand new pcv system froze over in a garage and pressurized the crankcase, blowing the front main and ruining the timing belt. This was the norm for many VAG owning customers. If it’s not leaking oil at 60,000 miles, it’s probably out of oil. Conversely, I’ve owned and serviced so many American made cars and trucks that have made it over 200,00 miles without the need for major repairs. I don’t care what award a car company bought, I just care about real world high mileage reliability on the used market, therefore I own an Asian car
@@davidelzinga9757 the reliability of the cars i mentioned was based on their users experience;
you may be not aware of that, but VW parts in US are much more expensive than in Europe, and US parts are more expensive in Europe than in US.
So after a PCV valve got replaced (or a system for that matter) it froze, so not the old one but a new one = installation error?
then again, my mother refuses to get a new car and drives a VW Golf 4, that thing is from 2002 and has 280 000km; now the winter was kinda hash and the temp went at some -29*C , not sure if the valve in that very engine is called PCV, but same sort of valve froze and about 4 liters of oil went out through the dipstick hole....yes the dipstick turned into a projectile.
Refilled oil, it runs again. The reason why this happens is bcoz my mother does not drive the car too often and only few kilometers at a time, i doubt that the oil ever reaches more than 50*C temp, this means, quite a lot of condensate water collects everywhere.
The thing with the oil happened in 2018, the car still runs to this day.
Its hard for a electronic system to be justified if it can't beat a incredibly reliable, simple, and cheap mechanical system without offering some new useful feature.
Maybe you could have both for extra safety, but I would never drive with electric only brakes
Especially when that electronic system would fail with every other electronic system on the car. The reason hydraulic brakes stick around is because their mechanical function is completely independent from the alternator.
there are some advantages actually. better automatic braking is one of those, but one thing that i wished they had mentioned was advantages in the event of brake fluid boiling. your brake pedal can only travel so far but an electronic pump can just keep pumping fluid until it moves enough fluid to stop the car. i watched one video on the c8 corvette where they talked about that. obviously, you can’t just keep driving with the fluid overheating, but it’s enough to stop the car in the event of such an emergency.
The brake system is complex, expensive and messy. Just think of manufacturing and placing all of those brake lines and having to fill them with messy fluids. That, and electronic brakes offer a bunch of new features, regen blending and adaptive braking effort being two big ones
@@thomgt4 and then there is the problem of electric brakes can't apply enough force as efficiently as simple hydraulic brake systems. There is a reason major industries only use hydraulics for certain things.
The brake by wire system have a diferent feel in the foot but you get used to it, and have a few advantages over the conventional brake system, the first one is the weight who is half of the conventional one and the second is the brake fatigue who is less notorious in the brake by wire system!
The first brand who introduced the brake by wire in a production car was Alfa Romeo in the Giulia together with Continental(MKC1)
A lot of cars already use electric assist for the brakes. The Prius has used that since it was released in the US in like 2000. It’s backup in case the vehicles 12V system fails is a large bank of capacitors in the HCU that gives you enough electricity for about 5-10 stops without the 12v system, so similar to a vacuum assisted brake system. After that, you can still use the brakes, but they’ll be unassisted, so it takes a lot more force (again, the same as stopping in a car with vacuum assisted brakes if the vacuum supply is interrupted, or hydro boost for that matter) Tesla uses a fully hydraulic brake system with an electric assist. As far as EVs go, the Tesla brake system is really basic because they don’t do any sort of blended braking (I.e regenerative braking that is requested by the brake pedal). When you step on the brake pedal in a Tesla, you aren’t adding any regen braking, your only adding friction braking. This is very different than any other EV, for better or for worse.
I’m not sure there is a compelling enough reason to replace hydraulic brakes entirely with electric yet. The reasons you gave don’t work for me. ADAS systems can apply the brakes either by using a servo on the brake pedal (this is what Tesla uses, you can actually watch the brake pedal move when it activates, some others use it as well) or for emergency braking systems, the ABS system is used to apply strong pressure to the brakes (that’s why ABS systems have pumps, even back before ADAS was a thing). As far as different brake modes, eh no. That’s not needed. The only reason I can think of to replace the hydraulic system would be to eliminate hydraulic failures (especially from rust) but electronic systems have failures as well, including rust failures. An electric system may not need fluid services, but the maintenance would move somewhere else, like cleaning/lubing the brake servos.
The reason hydraulics stick around is simple: When the engine fails, they still work. When the electrics fail, they still work. That's the point. And that's also the reason handbrakes have stuck around: Because a cable/rod driven handbrake is your last resort when hydraulics fail, and yes, I've had to use it in that situation.
Handbrakes are also know as E Brakes, Emergency Brakes :v
same i had problems of low brake fluid pressure in the brake lines before and had to rely on handbrake in those instances, so your explanation about the isolated forms of failsafes in these systems and not being codependent (if everything is electric and the battery dies then everything doesnt function) is important reminder as to the necessity of keeping the function of these different systems seperate and isolated from each other, Slam Shift with the best answer imo
handbrakes are being phased out by electronic parking brakes. most new cars have no mechanical fail safe for the service brakes.
@@c30mob7 worst part is you cant do a hand brake turn
Handbrakes/e-brakes should NEVER be used as an emergency brake.
Honestly a lot of these "smart systems" like delayed acceleration and limiting RPM on the first gear usually throw me off more than anything.
I DESPISE 🤬🤬🤬👿 delayed acceleration. Just what is the purpose 🤌
@@MaddJakd I have no freaking idea - it make me feel like the car is reconsidering my decisions as the driver. "You want to throttle now? Hmmm. Ok, let's do that. But next time..."
@@unfa00 I drive an old low power sedan that takes a while to accelerate but at least I know it’s doing something I can’t image delayed acceleration, especially if your trying to avoid something.
Yeah. First thing I do when I get in my car is turn off tcs
I had no idea things progressed this far. I'm starting to think my '92 BMW coupe was, in many ways, a pinnacle of motor vehicle development.
4:00 definitely can't tell what brand is blurred out here
The best brakes I've driven - those with less pedal travel. So, instead of travel sensor, electronic brakes should use weight sensor (like the one in your electronic kitchen scales). So - pedal travel would be 2mm and the feel would be amazing
You mean torque based? So how much torque (or force) you are applying to the brake pedal.
@@roland9367 it would be pressure, but with minimal pedal travel. Say 30 kgs - max power, everything in between - according to linear or any other curve. User configurable for max braking power pressure and maybe even curve. I'd played with that!
Pretty sure they are called Flex Sensors. Pretty much you "Squish" them and they create more resistance in the current, that's measured, and determined the "weight"
I just can’t get over the “aw man nolan I bet you wish you brought your obd2 scanner, this is gunna be pricey”😂😂
Massive evidence out of AZ and Georgia. Congress needs to decertify Bidens electors as the proof is there.🇺🇸
“The scariest thing is wanting to stop but not being able to.”
Yes! This has happened to me several time with my 2003 Ford E350! It has huge duel piston calipers at all four corners and requires an extra belt driven vacuum pump on the front of the engine to help the normal vacuum booster for the brakes. In my 18 years of ownership, Ive flown through a few stoplights and into some ditches when that stupid pump fails. Your butt seriously puckers!!!!
I can just imagine you saying "Oh fuck, not again"
@@Nightwolf2595 i can just imagine a bunch of different sayings as well😂
How do you get into your car every day knowing that the brakes are just gonna shit out at some point soon
Don't buy ford....problem fixed...sell it...get a ram
Switch to hydro boost
Having owned a Dodge Grand Caravan with the infamous Bendix 10 ABS system. In normal use, the brake pedal simply activates the high pressure feed to the wheels. It used a high pressure pump that actually applied the brakes. If the pump failed, you still had brakes, but it was a very hard pedal.
I would have thought you guys would talk about the new "Electric calipers" that rely fully on a solenoid coil to push the pads without any hydraulic system whatsoever!
As an aviation mechanic student it's been cool to see the new videos on these as they are the system utilized by the Boeing 787
The only thing in my mind is:
Car company spending all the afford is to only make thing complicated so it’s harder for other car mechanic to fix!
Precise. Now instead of needing a few parts you need a one piece proprietary module for an arm and leg
indeed. i have a video you might like: ruclips.net/video/gKsCHx5NOMM/видео.html it’s on drive by wire throttles.
@@noeljonsson3578 go try a car with a throttle cable , and realize how lazy dbw has become.
Kicking off the traction control can give some of it back if you have a defeat switch for it , but it's never gonna be as responsive as a cable.
Hell, the stealership techs don't even know how to fix all of these EVs their rushing out to compete with Tesla.
We're trying be screwed even more at this rate.
@@MrTheHillfolk indeed it isn’t. but people don’t care that much. most people don’t look for “fun” they look for better gas mileage or lower costs.
Where can I get an in-car flute it’s for a science project
ruclips.net/video/Vzbx492xRLY/видео.html
Get an old Jeep XJ and it'll squeak enough to replicate one
YOOO EXYL!!!! Didn't expect u to be here 🤣
Exyl moment
@@Crispy656forever yes
Did you ever see the Australian inventor that made a braking system using fluid coupling? Four small torque converters at each wheel and brake pedal actuated a pump, he said the biggest problem he had was reducing line pressure, system was extremely effective, fully sealed, water proof, and zero maintenance (change the oil sometimes probably) he got bought out by Japanese car company, he had a working prototype vehicle
If you have to sit with a dead car/electric emergency braking system and your foot on the brake pedal until a tow truck comes. Well then, I hope your tow truck doesn’t take very long to come…
So many "innovations" in the auto-industry feel like fixing what ain't broke.
I mean, most innovations are just improvements on existing technology
It mostly exists because people aren't smart enough to know that one click on a hand, or pedal parking brake, isn't enough to stop a car from doing anything. 95% of the time when a customer has a traditional parking brake they just set it to where it barely contacts, it won't even stop the vehicle from moving under the pressure of the torque converter.
Exactly! Electric steering and Drive by wire (Accelerator) being the worst! Customer is no longer the king, it's profits and fickle minded customers who dictate what to manufacture. The car companies are having a gala time these days. Sad really.
@@chiragghuman i mean the customer was never the king lol, plus i mean we shouldnt just deny change just because its not something that we used to know
@@chiragghuman yeah.
I’m so proud of donut, getting big sponsors now like autozone that’s crazy
That’s a hilarious commercial. Nolan pushing his mustang purely because a check engine light came on. My jeep lights it up from time to time just to let you know it’s on the dash 🤣
I drove a 2020 Camry since it was new until last week. I also have a 2007 Yaris with about 125,000 miles.
Yes, of course Camry hybrid with CVT would get up and go in an instant.
They both do about the same mileage.
Here are things the Camry has randomly done:
Panic stop if a car made a slow right turn in front of me.
Flutter the brakes nearly off for just a small cold patch.
Let the brakes off when I turned into an uphill parking spot (very exhilarating!).
The steering was always just a bit behind me moving the wheel, and at high speed had a whiff of a tendency to keep making tiny adjustments.
The traction control would over-react on rain-soaked or snowy roads.
The door locks would sometimes decide I didn't get to the car fast enough and relock it just as I touched the handle, and then require a manual unlock.
When powering down, I had to wait two seconds before opening the door to avoid an annoying chiming.
My one annoyance with the Yaris: in 1st gear it's easy to spin the tires. Go figure.
"In the unlikely event of an electronic failure..." It's an audi, it's guaranteed to have a catastrophic electronic failure.
That's what I said lol
German car wiring--a mouse delicacy
@@limprooster3253 Yes, because they have soy isolation. Also rememer when they put emergency brake as button and they froze under -15C
ruclips.net/video/Vzbx492xRLY/видео.html
Absolutely
My car used to have in-car mariachi band but figured it'd save more fuel to leave them behind when I'm driving
Big trucks and buses normally don't use hydraulic brakes, they use air brakes. But they do it with with reverse operation, when you brake you release air from the system and mechanical springs do the braking and when you release the pedal air is pumped into the system to overcome the forse of the springs.
This means that if you have a failure in the air system and lose pressure the truck or bus will automatically brake because there is no air pressure anymore to hold the springs.
This is also the reason you often see trucks standing with the engine running for some time after they start in the morning, the air system has lost pressure overnight and the brakes are stuck until the car has build up pressure to release them.
AutoZoner here. At 1:37 “Certified autozoner” means I watched a two minute video on how to plug a scanner into an obd2 port, walk my fat ass behind the counter, and plug it into the computer. After that, I just hope and pray that the computer doesn’t crash on me. Or catch on fire again.
I feel accomplished watching this episode from inside an AutoZone. My work is now sponsoring my entertainment.
Same, tho I love how they said "certified" autozoner. That would be literally any of us lol. Also, the fact they had a red shirt do it instead of a gray was kinda odd
Does that mean your work is paying to keep you from working technically
'if it ain't broke change it till it breaks" -german automakers
german auto makers, domestics, koreans, nissan. working in a shop i hate all car makers equally. alot of them are prone to problems as they get newer. even my beloved toyota and hondas
@@blakeyboychar Toyota still uses 20+ year old designs in their vehicles. That's why a Tacoma still has a handbrake, drum brakes, the same Bilstein shocks since the 90s, a transmission which came out in 2002, and an engine that's also from the early 2000s. Granted, those designs are slightly modified, but at the core they're still the same. Sure they have added a lot of electrical stuff to it as well, but mechanically, those vehicles are ancient. Even if the electrics fail, mechanically it'll keep working.
Especially Audi..... They always want to be the first to do something. This one ain't too great in my opinion.
Thanks for video.
There is a ton more electronics in newer brake systems. Hill hold, abs, stability and traction control that independently applies independent wheel brakes. My 1992 has abs but also relies exclusively on an electric pump for the power.
Yes it still is hydraulic and will function with out power to some extent
I work on Amazon vehicles as a technician and the Mercedes’ sprinter vans have an electronic parking brake. Unfortunately a malfunction recall was issued after vehicles would wind up rolling down the road after being placed in park.
So basically, Audi turned a cheap hydraulic braking system into an overly complicated, expensive to fix, braking system…..
Yes, that's exactly what they did. It is very... German of them.
Well, there isn't a brake line to fail anymore
@@slav_K0 No, there literally is still a brake line. It said right in the video lol. They just added electronics to it
@@andrewolson5471 Audi was not the brand who put the brake by wire in a production car, the first car with brake by wire was the Alfa Romeo Giulia in 2016...
That's still essentially a hydraulic system.
2+2 versus 2*2+2/2+2+2-2
I'm glad they haven't done drive-by-wire brakes, there's already plenty of tech I have to repair and diagnose.
I m u s t s n u g g l e t h e w o l f
ruclips.net/video/Vzbx492xRLY/видео.html
Um what? Brake-by-wire is becoming more and more common, especially on hybrids and EVs... they're coming whether you like it or not. Thankfully, current systems are a hybrid setup that have hydraulic redundancies, so you're not completely screwed when the electronics fail.
Excellent video guys. I especially enjoyed that sponsor spot. Wow, if all commercials were that good and informative, I would watch them more often.
Fiat used a similar concept in the electric 500e. It had an electrically boosted brake that engaged under 7mph or in an instance of hard braking. Above 7mph pressing the brake pedal actually varies the level regeneration of the electric motor, press hard on the brakes and the brake pads would be engaged. The system worked well as an alternative to one pedal driving by most electric cars. There was a slight jerk as the normal brakes came on at 7mph, but after a few days you get used to it and compensate.
Thats why I like 90's and early 2000's cars the most, they have just the right balance between not being carbeurated but also not scull fucked with expensive shittly made electronics
I just picked up a 2000 Town Car Cartier, and its the perfect amount of luxury and comfort. No crazy computers and over complication, just simple cool features, like heated seats where you can choose to heat your back or your back and ass, 13 way seats, sun roof, etc etc
100%, even in the late 90s you can get EFI, OBD2, ABS, dual front side airbags, etc. depending on the car. Into the early 2000s some also had lane departure and auto braking. I think the modern era of tiny turbo-charged engines and luxury=electronics in particular is a downward spiral.
@@Thebadbeaver9 yeah I've got a 2002 wrx and it's got everything, I added a Bluetooth stereo but that's all I needed it's got heated seats and a collapsed star under the dash for a heater core it's awesome, I'd honestly rather fix it up and keep driving it than buy new as they just feel disconnected from the road
@@JoeUrbanYYC straight my friends dad has a 2019 rav4 and the infotainment system died, it was covered by warranty but it said it would've cost him 1700 dollars, I can get my entire timing belt done for 750😂😂
I am waiting for the day the chassis becomes electronic
I don’t like hole systems of a car electronic
Basically already is. Imagine how terribly an rs6 will handle without it's active air suspension, active damping, rear wheel steering, and active anti roll system.
Soooo transformers?
*electronic gas*
Bruh, cars are becoming encased simulator rigs on wheels.
I think one way to have fully electronic brakes is to have 1) The tactile feedback system you described. 2) A fail safe system that'll automatically acticate the brakes in the event of a loss of power.
A way you could potentially accomplish this is by adding an E-Brake Solenoid or EBS to two or all the caliper assemblies. This solenoid system, when energied, will release a separate brake pad set that is spring loaded with enough force to bring the car to a halt as if you were stopping for a stop sign. By releasing the pads, you'll put the spring set under tension until the vehicle is shut down. Once it is, the solenoid systen will shut down. Releasing the springs, and deploying the brakes. Should a power failure occur in the vehicle, the solenoids will lose power, the springs will release and deploy the brakes, again, with enough force to stop rhe vehicle as if you were approaching a stop sign. If the brake system fails to power up, the brakes will not release.
This could also be used for anti-theft. Say someone tried to break into the car. The car could detect this, and shut itself down, there by activating the solenoid brakes, and locking the car down in that spot.
I'd love to hear y'all's feedback and opinions. So if you can think of a more efficient way, or may want to change my idea up a bit. I'd love to hear your suggestions.
Ok, counter point: you are driving and ended without power. Maybe a battery issue, maybe you forgot to charge the car the day before, maybe your kid was playing in your car without you knowing and consumed most of the battery, it doesn't matter...
Now you have a car with the breaks activated in the middle of the street, let's say at night. You have no lights to indicate that there's a car on the street and now you can't push the car to the side of the road, because the breaks are purely electronic and are only released when the car has power. Do you see the problem here?
At the end of the day, cars can have electronic breaks, but they will also need a mechanical backup for when it fails.
@@aquelegabriel I agree, but the majority of EV'S out there, like the Chevrolet Volt, have their light and lamp system running on the 12 volt power system powered by the readily replaceable 12 volt classic car battery. One thing that can be done is we could set a system running on the 12 volt system that monitors the condition of the EBS. If they are not energized, the 12 volt system will ignite the brake lamps, and (if wired to do so) could even auto start the hazzard lamps.
I see your presented problem, but if you take a look at every different EV in the market (unless you're TESLA) chances are, you'll find a standard 12 volt automotive power system that can be used to not only "pull in" the high-voltage contactors, but also run the head and brake lamps, as well as the blinker interrupter and lamp system, AND the EBS.
I hope this helps out with your dilemma. Thanks for giving me your input! I'm always open for suggestions.
Losing power in a car with power brakes is also terrifying. Not only can you really not brake, steering is also super difficult (power steering). This happened to my wife while descending a very long hill. She had to use the EMERGENCY brake to stop the car. Thank god that wasn't electric, but an old-fashioned cable/handle type.
I have a great idea for brakes, I’ll design a transmission that makes it so when you push the clutch you can put it into reverse so you have the power of the whole engine to stop you, I call it the transmission destroyer
Design? Isn't it already available?
Oh shit.. I think we need a new truck at work...
I fr thought I was about to hear a good idea 😂
clutch fryer too
I think this would be possible if your reverse gear had a synchroniser, but I’ve never heard of a car that does. Most cars don’t, hence why you have to stop fully before sticking it into reverse
@@th3airraidsir3n5 not at all, In autos you can slam that bitch in reverse going foward
Jer: one of the scariest things on the planet is wanting to stop but not being able to stop
Drug addicts: I can relate
Such an underrated comment lmao
I got to cannonball down a steep mountain road in an old ambulance our fire department used as a rescue truck. Twice. Yes I saw the irony. The first time I was driving back from a county fair with 4 other fire fighters. As we started down the hill a brake line ruptured. A mile and a half later I finally took a breath. 2 days and some repairs later and we did it again. The second time all of the electrical systems died as I started down the same hill. The second time I lost both the brakes and the steering. We made it to the bottom unscathed. The fire department promptly got rid of the truck. I hope to never do anything like that again.
After driving an 80's BMW w/a 5MT and an LSD for 11 years (w/o ABS) going to a 2013 335i w/a 6MT. BMW really did a good job of robbing all of the old mechanical feels from the modern automobile. It's a nice car and it's fast but I miss the real feeling of the gas pedal, the steering, the clutch w/o a delay valve, and the lack of fancy traction control. I'm more than happy with an engine, RWD, and an LSD. Modulating the brake pedal becomes second nature after a while.
Day 18 of asking for an Up to Speed on how Donut Media came to be
oh yes this pls
damn you’re still here?
Are you the same person from the last video
@@SuperSammy1981 he is indeed. dedication at its finest
Nice
As an autozone employee, we will have a printed code, we don't get payed enough for all that bull shit
That would be the first AutoZone I've ever seen to go that far into doing that, also she's a regular " Red " shirt CSR, why isn't the manager doing all the extra work seeing as they would be pissed if a red shirt took that much time with one customer and they had to come out the back and put down their phone to help other customers cause of that.
Also, if AZ ever seen this comment while your a current employee, you'd be getting a pink slip regardless if it was a negative or positive comment, and maybe even sued if they wanted to go that far, look at your Zoner Manual, the job isn't worth the BS anyways.
As a dealership advisor, it sure is fun when anyone comes in with a print out from AZ and says that they know what is wrong with their car because they got the codes. Takes a while to explain to them that the code gives you a place to start diagnosing, not always an exact fix from just the code.
@@SPDSTA05 Which is no different then getting a Haynes or Chiltons manual, which has the code numbers listed, their definition, and how to proceed to diagnose probable causes and possible fixes. But since many cars don't have manuals available like that much anymore, and you have to get a program like All Data and pay to even see a PDF or TSB's and other information which doesn't justify the cost for anyone who isn't in the buisness, that is the type of sh!t you end up dealing with. That or they just are lazy or have no interest in learning for their self.
So stupid
So my dad worked for a company called Woodward, in Colorado. They helped design airline systems, specifically around Reverse Thrust, hydraulic door, and hydraulic control systems on airplanes, from large to small passenger count to high passenger count airplanes, so, if you have ever landed safely on an aircraft, thank my dad. Anyway, not my point. They realised something when creating these electronic control systems. Pilots hated the easy movement of the pedals and sticks. So, the response was to create a system that would have an automated response. They used a similar strategy to audi. However, one system my dad proposed that i expanded in a recent isometric drawing of my own, is a tensioner belt. The column or action would have a tension belt on it, requiring you to pull more weight when doing this. To account for that in cars, we would have to make a profile that details the tension based on pressure, and responds accordingly. I'm not quite an engineer yet, but if i had a solution that would be it.
He is my favorite RUclipsr. Genuinely hilarious.
Like my grandfather use to say "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
I'm starting to think Jeremiah assimilated Bart to steal his knowledge.
oh we miss bart. only the real ones know who he is
Man good ol Bart! I'd love to see him come back even if for just an episode.
@@ericviger4984 what happened to him?
@@Natewu188 AFAIK he needed to spend more time with his family and retiered.
@@Natewu188 his wife had just given birth at the time and he needed to step back and be with his family! Can't blame him really, but that doesn't mean that we can't still miss him. His knowledge and humor was amazing!
Mercedes implemented brake by wire 20 years ago. No power = no brakes!!!
Scary when your alternator dies on the highway.
Nolan: thanks!
Auto Zone tech: your problem.
„Gas cap might be loose“; that same obd2 reading on my car sparked the first moment of a three-years-long battle with my EGR and Evan system 😩
That Evan never gives up...just burn the car to the ground with him in it.
Damn couldn't believe Donut's getting sponsors from Autozone, congrats guys!
Donut Media: 10:24
Apple PR Mafia: Sir, you need to come with us.
2022 Audi ETron: That's just braking with extra steps!
"And now they drive away, and now they ded"
- Jeremiah Burton, 2021
Someone: Cut my brake line, Me: Goes through every gear until I stop
I had a mild wreck in an old manual gti thanks to a caliper coming off. Split my wheel in half, ripped caliper and rotor off the car, and sent me into a spin because of the initial wheel lock up. Still drove it home with no brakes lmao
@@kylewise3111 gotta see it through
And if the engine stalls? How you going to engine brake?
@@jeff666p that wouldn’t matter??
@@tannerlotito3313 how so?
Electronic parking breaks in particular have to be the most friggin half-baked concept on planet earth
I can confirm, having your brakes fail is scary as shit.
That ladies eyes looked as big as basketballs, as my 6000 lb cargo van whisked by about 3 feet in front of her while she was crossing the road.
Not a single employee at any of my local autozones looks like that 😬
It's come to the point where I actually watch the ads because they make em so interesting
Love the low effort on blurring out the Monster Energy logo.
Totally can't see what it is anymore!
Yeah total fail! Might as well magnify it on purpose. He got one job JUST ONE job!
I do the calibration for the ADAS systems like Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keeping Assist and the number one DTC we been getting is the electronic brake booster isnt either getting enough voltage or its not receiving the signal properly