The most impressive thing to me was that they got open diff 50:50 torque split right. After their "explanation" for rotational inertia I was sure they would mess it up. But they didn't! Great job, I guess.
@@santiagoardilesgonzalez6451 First, if you're going to try to insult people, use proper spelling and don't be wrong. Second, if you'd bother to learn why metric caught on in Europe, i.e to replace a morass of countless competing standards, you'd understand why it wasn't adopted by a continent that already had a single standard of measurements.
Really wish you guys touched on SH-AWD! The RL in 2005 had a proper mechanical torque vectoring rear diff, and an 'acceleration device' at the rear axle, overdriving the rear wheels by some ~2%-5%. It could do 20/80 or 80/20 split, AND send 100% of the power at the rear axle to one wheel. It's a super sophisticated system, and was/is used in everything from the RL to TL, to even having the torque vectoring diff in the MDX and RDX!
Thank you for accurately representing this. The SAE in general agrees that a system is not "Torque Vectoring" unless it can predictably send torque to one wheel, this is only accomplished through over-speeding. That is why the companies that you pointed out and others will not use the term Torque Vectoring for their brake based systems. They reserve it for systems that are able to send torque to one specific wheel on demand like the Focus RS, the Evo X or the Honda SH-AWD system.
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They should totally do a video on the Focus RS system because it's really clever, but it can't actually send 100% of the torque to one specific wheel. Best it can do is a 70/30 split to the rear, with vectoring of that amount side to side.
Definitely do a B2B on diffs No brainer You guys kick ass, keep it up What about the suspension? How does that effect the traction loss? Traction is a monster to get right. Part of the fun
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Torque equals the cross product of the distance vector and force vector. In cross-products, unlike dot-products, the order matters. The unit should be FtLb, not the other way around. Dot product: A • B = B • A Cross product: A x B ≠ B x A Although the SI unit for torque is Newton-meters (Nm), it should be meters-Newton (mN).
That open-diff brake-based thing kinda reminds me of the antique tractor I sometimes use for scraping snow off the driveway and mowing fields and stuff. It has 2 brake pedals, one for the left, one for the right, and if it's in a slick spot and having trouble going around a sharp turn, I step on the inside brake and it pulls it right around (although, obviously not automatic)
That's not just on antique tractors. I had a 2006 John Deere that I used all around my small farm. When I mowed hay I would uncouple the brake pedals so I could brake on the inside of the turn. This would allow me to make a u-turn at the end of the row around the point of the inside wheel. This set me back on a path parallel to the previous row. At other times if one wheel started to spin on soft ground there was a lever I could push with the heal of my left foot to lock the rear diff and it would get traction and pull through. Lots of times operating my tractor took both hands and feet to make it all happen.
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Jerry an B2B are my favorite episodes on Donut. I have a comprehension problem so the audible explanations helps me tremendously. Thx again jerry for helping a limited wannabe engineer... You tha Man...
Best series no cap. You get to learn free about shit you love. Aaand the production is top notch with some dad humor that may be old, unfilunny or even just youtube catering, but at least this channel has soul. Thanks for all the great wotk from Donut. We truly love you.
So many honduh fanbois... "super handling" awd is nothing special. Honda keeps trying to make Acura into something it's not, and they keep failing. You'd think they would have learned a lesson or two from GM by now - you can't polish a turd. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't turn the pig into Marilyn Monroe. Putting brighter headlights and an interior made of different plastics into a Honda doesn't change it into something else. Acura will always be second tier to actual European makes. They just can't shed that basic, cheap Asian feel at their core.
Agreed, it was even introduced ALL the way back in 2005 on the Acura RL (I owned one for 7 years). It's NOT a brake based torque-vectoring like others that Jerry mentioned!
@@VorsprungDurchNik Did a guy who drives a Honda fuck your girlfriend - or do you have anything to contribute to the conversation that actually speaks to the engineering of the all wheel drive systems? Here's something that might help (see the description for a condensed version on how it's a unique system and different from their AWD) ruclips.net/video/Yz9ol5zy5nk/видео.html
I am a little confuse about the joke Jeremiah makes about torque @7:00. Isn't it the inside wheel that gets all the torque wasted because it broke traction? It should be the inside wheel saying: "it's my torque ablalblalabllalba" while wasting it.
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Dude. Very, very good explanation. I could not have said it better myself but here’s my request: FWD cars that fight their own urge to understeer… so weight transfer is as important as “from the wheels that slip, to the wheels that grip” -Subaru advertising. Now, a front wheel drive car can avoid understeer in a few different ways. The Honda or Acura Integra… the Pontiac Grand Prix GT specifically because the GTP was supercharged and unfair to the crowd…. Now what about the Cavalier SS? Who made the best FWD rocket… Mazda 3 is a hatch so I can’t include that. Think about those legendary FWD cars we love to hate and hate to love… did they use stability management?? I’ll say the, “Wider is better” slogan from Pontiac was true to a point. I turned that car inside out around the turns. Carved those wedges and I hated that it was FWD. VERY effective platform. I turned off the stability control and smoked those tires. Turn it back on and smoked those Mustangs that I love so much. Hahah
Watching this reminded me of my 1st Gen Acura RDX. The SH-AWD system made that little CUV handle in ways it didn't had a right to for its category. Absolutely loved it once I realized that to get the most of it, using the throttle through the turn was key. I still miss it. They changed their character once SH-AWD was no longer offered.
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@@Kana0211 mine was fantastic for the 3 years that I had it. Had to sell it because I moved to a different state but the guy who bought it never reported any mechanical issues.
Welllll... about that... At 2:55 he incorrectly called the axle input shafts, then also referred to the driveshaft as input shaft. But a few seconds later he called the axles output shafts. It caught my attention then within seconds I seen your comment. But yeah still, I agree with you. I love this channel
Why was Honda not mentioned? They were the first to implement an Active Torque Transfer System (aka: ATTS, on the Prelude, in 1997) that used clutches to direct power, instead of brakes (to waste power!)
I'd love to hear about quattro awd vs symmetrical awd. May be even talk about Honda & Acura iVTM4/sh-awd or Toyota TV-AWD. Especially as a Toyota lover would like to see if Toyota torque vectoring awd can be of any use or its just marketing bs?
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Acura/Honda did electronically controlled electromagnetic clutch packs for active torque vectoring in the SH-AWD system on the 2005 Honda Legend/Acura RL! Standard!
About a decade earlier they had ATTS on the fifth generation Prelude Used clutch packs to feed more power to the outside wheel when cornering This was 97 that it was first introduced so the Prelude really lived up to its name with this bit of tech
Would love to watch a B2B video about differentials. Between LSD, torsen, lunch boxes, spools, there's so many. I'd watch a long video about it. Love you guys. Keep up the great work!
At 6:50-ish there you had the tires mixed up. The outside won't spin as it has the grip thanks to the higher load thanks to weight transfer while turning. It's the unloaded inside tire that spins.
I absolutely love these videos they've taught me SOO MUCH about my car or cars in general but I have to admit this is by FARRRRRRRRt the most confusing episode yet ...
it's a lot of information at once, i'll admit I had to pause it a bunch of times or even replay parts to process before continuing, but in Donut's defense... "the most confusing" is in the title of the video, so it's not supposed to be super easy to understand.
it just depends on where you live, this youtube channel is in the US so they're gonna discuss US cars and US units mainly, they may be "wrong" in the global scope but if you're an american and somebody tells you something in newton-meters they'll ask you why you're talking about fruit bars instead of car parts
@@eveleynce The US was the first country that started with implementing the part of the metric system in 1792 with decimal currency, _the dollar cent,_ although the quarter still exists. That was even before France, first country, implemented the metric system in 1795.
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I really like your content, specially when you approach engineering and the specs of racing categories. Please keep up the good work. I know that your audience is mainly US based, but I strongly suggest that you place both imperial and metric measurements. Nm is a standard unit and one that makes the whole pound-foot question more obvious for those who are somewhat familiar with kinematics from high schoool. If think it is also helpful to establish that an open differential has some advantages besides the cost. Again, good job.
I didn't really understand how well brake torque vectoring works till I got my C6 Vette. Makes you feel like a freaking racecar driver. Could literally throw the car was faster into a turn than you think you can and all you feel is GRIP!
Beautiful car. My dad had a 78 Vette. He only added a cam. I freaking loved that car. It reminds me of the Batmobile and the SR-71 Blackbird. Drive safely, my friend.
The TON-MILE has always been my favorite unit of measure, commonly used to quantify mechanical wear of large wire-ropes used in very heavy lifting gear like that used in a drilling rig’s draw-works.
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@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 I believe the metric first found use in the locomotive/freight/rail industry. Something to the tune of the weight in short tons divided by the distance travelled in miles equals ton/miles. I suppose it could be used many different application of scale, but wouldn’t an engine large enough to have it’s power output measured in ton-miles be awesome!? 🤘🏼
Yeah, I'd love to see a B2B on "posi" differentials, including the old school Detroit Locker, vs a TrueTrac, an Auburn, and the GM eLocker. Then there are the ARB Air Locker, the now defunct Gleason Torsen, and cheaper "lunchbox lockers" like the LocRite.
True Trac/wavetrack/powertrax or ARB for the win....trust me....I ship thousands of diff parts every day. True Trac can torque bias through its helical(or any helical of that design type) internal gears, also they don't require additive or clutch replacement over time(so they make up the difference from cheaper clutch style options) ARB is nice, but comes with all the caveats of installing an air system. Or you can get a motive wavetrack(helical like the eaton...pricey, but LIFETIME WARRANTY)....or I'd also recommend Richmond Powertrax pro series helicals....middle of road on cost...no additive or clutches to deal with still. Run from Auburn. Just back away from it slowly and turn and run. Interesting idea, but not rebuildable and uses special "conical" clutches....that you can't replace. Detroit lockers are pretty decent(but those are a locker....not a limited slip) but are pretty aggressive usually with dragging the outside wheel...not quite like a spool...but not pleasant on the street.
Spartans and lunchbox lockers go inside your factory open diff case after you pull spiders(most times, a few different ones use a cpl of the factory spider gears along with the new parts. E lockers work OK, but are not suited for serious wheeling/hp in most situations as they rely on magnetic actuated "pins" most times to engage on part of elocker....so not super robust...but will lock. GM oe limited slips are known as "gov bombs"....there's a reason
@@bluewffl8472 Yeah, the Auburn is just like the GM Positraction, Ford TracLoc, or 70-up Mopar SureGrip. Not rebuildable. The older SureGrips could be reclutched. The original Detroit is harsh. The TrueTrac would be my choice, if funds allow. I'd settle for a LocRite, but as a Mopar guy, I know ya can't get em for the 8.75.
Great video. Only thing is, I'm not so sure how much maintenence a LSD needs. I own a 30 year old Fox Mustang with 130k miles. A lot of those have been pretty hard miles. I have changed the dif fluid to synthetic around 50k miles, but that's it. The LSD still works awesome. Lays two long patches anywhere of any length at any time.
Acura had torque vectoring well before Lexus. In 2004, the '05 Acura RL introduced torque-vectoring all-wheel drive. As far as the Lexus system, nearly every Lexus since 2006 (and even many Toyotas) have vehicle-dynamics integrated management, which is essentially brake vectoring on steroids, capable of making millisecond-by-millisecond braking, throttle, and even power steering adjustments to prevent under or oversteer, often before it is even noticed by the driver.
Dont forget about the rear diff in a Nissan juke, its got lotsa clutches just like the sh system honda made. I personally drive an 09 rdx which is a very under rated car.
@@christoforospaphitis4090 the Evo had clutches in the rear axle, but it couldn't overdrive the rear axle like SH-AWD. Only the Evo 10th-generation had true torque vectoring.
I would love an episode about how electric vehicles do torque vectoring, especially for off-road oriented trucks. How does torque vectoring work in EVs with 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 motors?
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4:12 the common unit of torque is not the pound-foot, it's the newton meter. Even the pound-foot itself is based on the metric system nowadays, just like the rest of the imperial system. So calling it the common measurement like the USA aren't the only ones using it, is just wrong.
@@Kana0211 just because the US is using it doesn't mean it's common. It's specific to the US. It's like americans going to other countries and yelling at them to speak english.
@@dariolinder4508 Donut’s based in LA. Primary audience is also American. “Common” units are going to be the customary/imperial/American/whatever you want to call them units. Not everything is abt the rest of the world
My TLX Type S’s SH-AWD is by far the best AWD I’ve ever driven. I’d love to see a comparison to Audis’s Quattro AWD system. That’d be an interesting to see since I couldn’t find any other channel that had them both, or any systems amongst manufactures for that matter.
Man said "I ain't talking about differential in calculus either" then did an entire mini segment on the literal differential equation factor of force used to produce rotational speed in an open diff. 😂 I love it man
The gyroscope joke gave me a good laugh. We have a local gyro restaurant and people are always pronouncing "gyro" (the meat) like "gyro" in "gyroscope" and it makes my eye twitch just a little everytime 😂
I was just about to wright "do an episode on audi quattro" And you said, "next episode audi quattro"! Can not wait to see it m8. keep on feeding me this episodes!! :D
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@TheSlayer97 Genuinely, I have never seen or heard any Americans use Newton meters outside of science classes in high school and college, if it bothers you that badly for all the hypothetical numbers in the video, just replace him saying lb-ft with Newton meters
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Thank you so much for this explanation! I retained none of the information provided and will act like a certified mechanical engineer in every situation possible
I think you messed up a bit at 6:54. As you said just before, normally it's the outside tyre that needs some torque transferred, while the inside one loses traction (due to weight transfer and centrifugal force). This problem is exacerbated for RWD cars on uphill airpin bends where the rear inside wheel also has part of the weight lifted due to the elevation change.
Were just discussing with a friend how the new EV rally cars etc will handle the twisties with full torque from 1 rpm. So yea, looking forward to EV torque vectoring video and maybe a comparison from RWD/AWD/EV. Keep it up!
Just bought my first car with a torsen limited slip, please do the video! I love getting knowledge from you guys, great teachers and easy to understand
this may be the only instructional/informational video i've ever watched that I was sad it was ending...i didn't want it to be over....The Binge Begins..
Great stuff. Love it. Please make a video about LSD, locking Diffs, etc. Then a test run with lap times with the different systems. That would be awesome
VW released in 2013 on the Golf mk7 GTI Performance Pack the VAQ differential, that works with XDS. Basically that's the FWD version of what Lexus introduced later on the RCF. The VAQ has clutches to send more torque to the wheel with more grip and XDS is a brake based torque vectoring system, already available since 2009.
I have actually been looking forward to this video and the center differential video you mentioned since I was a kid playing Gran Turismo 2. I Always toyed with the adjustable settings on those center differentials and two-way limited slip LSDs but I didn't realize there were different ways of building a locking differential. I never appreciated the Active Stability Management as they called it (the brake based system). If I remember right this system was even supposed to apply breaks to wheels that weren't even driven to stabilize the car during excessive YAW. To me it just made the cars' handling feel more like an arcade game and I prefer to just rely on the adjustable limited slip differentials, it allows me to control how the steering feels.
As far as I understand, torque vectoring is where torque is actually transferred using clutch packs or a mechanical system. Like in EVOs. While using brakes is now called torque vectoring, it is kind works in the opposite manor and is completly a reactive system unlike an evo
Looking forward to that upcoming episode. I have an AWD Lincoln and apparently it's FWD on a normal basis, and AWD when it needs to be. However, whenever I'm driving it and I need to do something that being AWD outshines FWD in, like hard acceleration from a standstill, or pulling through snow, this car does it seamlessly as if it's been in AWD the whole time! Would love to see what that big transmission looking thing in the back is doing behind those walls.
Let's get that b2b episode about differentials!
Yes Please!! Love the videos and appreciate the knowledge.
yes
Agreed, I'd love to feel kinda dumb and then smarter after 10 pages of notes lolz
Yess
Yes please!
"You could let off the accelerator, but what fun is that". The motto of every mustang driver.
I can hear the footsteps of the crowd running away
FixOrRepairDaily🤭
Crowds: *SWEATING*
Exactly. You can't crash into other cars and bystanders by letting off the throttle. 😄
Fuckin GOT EM
I don't get why it's dumb; it's cool!
Also at 13:30 those are my hands. Those are some nice hands.
Oh hi!
The most impressive thing to me was that they got open diff 50:50 torque split right. After their "explanation" for rotational inertia I was sure they would mess it up. But they didn't! Great job, I guess.
Awesome to see you here!
He didn’t even get to it being dumb. If anything he pointed out how cool a real torque vectoring system is and promised more videos praising it.
Explain the engineering behind those nice hands
Jerry: "The common unit of rotational force or torque is pound foot"
SI units/Nm: "Are we a joke to you?"
we all watched the video
He should have said the standard unit 🤣
Yes
You americans are the only country still using mideval units
@@santiagoardilesgonzalez6451 First, if you're going to try to insult people, use proper spelling and don't be wrong. Second, if you'd bother to learn why metric caught on in Europe, i.e to replace a morass of countless competing standards, you'd understand why it wasn't adopted by a continent that already had a single standard of measurements.
Really wish you guys touched on SH-AWD! The RL in 2005 had a proper mechanical torque vectoring rear diff, and an 'acceleration device' at the rear axle, overdriving the rear wheels by some ~2%-5%. It could do 20/80 or 80/20 split, AND send 100% of the power at the rear axle to one wheel. It's a super sophisticated system, and was/is used in everything from the RL to TL, to even having the torque vectoring diff in the MDX and RDX!
Thank you for accurately representing this.
The SAE in general agrees that a system is not "Torque Vectoring" unless it can predictably send torque to one wheel, this is only accomplished through over-speeding. That is why the companies that you pointed out and others will not use the term Torque Vectoring for their brake based systems. They reserve it for systems that are able to send torque to one specific wheel on demand like the Focus RS, the Evo X or the Honda SH-AWD system.
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I'm somewhat confused, if one wheel is braked to zero, doesn't that mean all torque is sent to the other wheel?
I hate fords but their awd system works really well in the snow and ice but the eco boost motors won’t make it over 100k without major repairs.
They should totally do a video on the Focus RS system because it's really clever, but it can't actually send 100% of the torque to one specific wheel. Best it can do is a 70/30 split to the rear, with vectoring of that amount side to side.
@@killhour yeah they don’t have a front lsd in early mk3 models either
Definitely do a B2B on diffs
No brainer
You guys kick ass, keep it up
What about the suspension? How does that effect the traction loss? Traction is a monster to get right. Part of the fun
totaly agree on everything this guy said
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I'd love to see a B2B on Stroker engines vs Cylinder Boring
Specifically Torsen style diffs.
@@BigfootUnibrowMan yes. Or try also V4 vs Inline 6 Cylinder engine.
I would love a b2b on awd diffs especially with differences in how different companies approach it like acura's SH-awd vs audi's quattro.
Plus the different VAG systems. There's Torsen, HALDEX and more!
This is actually interesting. Would love to have one episode like that
Subaru has like 4 different types alone. Lot of ppl don't know that but yeah
Even if you narrow it down to a 2002 Impreza you have 3. The sti one the manual and the auto and they're all completely different
@Nic Beurskens a bunch of cars used torsens they are crazy how they work.
“Torque vectoring can see into the future, like me on LSD.” I love Jerry 🤣🤣🤣
Torque equals the cross product of the distance vector and force vector.
In cross-products, unlike dot-products, the order matters.
The unit should be FtLb, not the other way around.
Dot product:
A • B = B • A
Cross product:
A x B ≠ B x A
Although the SI unit for torque is Newton-meters (Nm), it should be meters-Newton (mN).
That open-diff brake-based thing kinda reminds me of the antique tractor I sometimes use for scraping snow off the driveway and mowing fields and stuff. It has 2 brake pedals, one for the left, one for the right, and if it's in a slick spot and having trouble going around a sharp turn, I step on the inside brake and it pulls it right around (although, obviously not automatic)
That's also how snowblowers work
Airplanes have that too
That's not just on antique tractors. I had a 2006 John Deere that I used all around my small farm. When I mowed hay I would uncouple the brake pedals so I could brake on the inside of the turn. This would allow me to make a u-turn at the end of the row around the point of the inside wheel. This set me back on a path parallel to the previous row.
At other times if one wheel started to spin on soft ground there was a lever I could push with the heal of my left foot to lock the rear diff and it would get traction and pull through.
Lots of times operating my tractor took both hands and feet to make it all happen.
I have unlockable brake pedals on a 2019 tractor.
My old 42 ford 9n does the same
*The level of detail you guys go into just amazing stuff swear I'm learning so many new things*
If y'all could explain all the LSD types and transfer case types, that would be really cool please
Yesss !!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^
Yes!
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@@bimenhani9705 lesbian bots again huh?
Jerry an B2B are my favorite episodes on Donut. I have a comprehension problem so the audible explanations helps me tremendously. Thx again jerry for helping a limited wannabe engineer... You tha Man...
Rivian's powertrain is essentially the holy grail for torque vectoring. Looking forward to the EV episode!
I'd love to see a B2B on everyone's favourite forgotten JDM technology: 4 wheel steering!
JDM and early 2000s Chevy trucks. Spoiler alert! It worked better for one than the other.
That's not uncommon on modern luxury cars, I believe Porsche and a few others are using it.
Yes please, very please, very yes
Yes, please more
@@ol_smokey9370 Z32 comes to mind.
Would have been a great opportunity to talk about the Evo X MR's TC-SST and "active yaw control"
i was looking to hear about the evo
yeah I was surprised AYC wasn't mentioned! although they did do a whole episode about it...
Please donut make it happen!
I think the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X was the first car with the "full fat" torque vectoring
AYC been around for years. Galant VR4
The production quality of these animations is phenomenal - congrats team!
But the dude talking has ADHD and gets diverted.
Best series no cap. You get to learn free about shit you love. Aaand the production is top notch with some dad humor that may be old, unfilunny or even just youtube catering, but at least this channel has soul. Thanks for all the great wotk from Donut. We truly love you.
There's nothing I'd want more than AWD and electric torque vectoring b2bs!
But I do love a bit of LSD...
For the next season of Hi Low, can the theme be Muscle cars? Let do a solid to Nolan and his car could be Hi car for a change!
Great idea! Make them drag cars
Yes, this.
@@carguy7884 a budget drag car sounds scary haha
@@dad1366 It is. Hoonigan had someone make a drag car by throwing a turbo ls (well vortec v8) in an s10 with a $10k budget, shit looked terrifying.
Solid lookin out for Nolan, he deserves to be on Hi team this time
Make sure to include SH-AWD from Acura when you discuss AWD systems and vectoring.
Even though Hondas “AWD” system is shit? There’s plenty of roller tests that they’ve failed since the AWD just doesn’t work
@@thegoldentheory4383 Honda Real-Time AWD is a different system than Honda's SH-AWD
So many honduh fanbois... "super handling" awd is nothing special. Honda keeps trying to make Acura into something it's not, and they keep failing. You'd think they would have learned a lesson or two from GM by now - you can't polish a turd. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't turn the pig into Marilyn Monroe. Putting brighter headlights and an interior made of different plastics into a Honda doesn't change it into something else. Acura will always be second tier to actual European makes. They just can't shed that basic, cheap Asian feel at their core.
Agreed, it was even introduced ALL the way back in 2005 on the Acura RL (I owned one for 7 years). It's NOT a brake based torque-vectoring like others that Jerry mentioned!
@@VorsprungDurchNik Did a guy who drives a Honda fuck your girlfriend - or do you have anything to contribute to the conversation that actually speaks to the engineering of the all wheel drive systems?
Here's something that might help (see the description for a condensed version on how it's a unique system and different from their AWD)
ruclips.net/video/Yz9ol5zy5nk/видео.html
I am a little confuse about the joke Jeremiah makes about torque @7:00. Isn't it the inside wheel that gets all the torque wasted because it broke traction? It should be the inside wheel saying: "it's my torque ablalblalabllalba" while wasting it.
Yes you are right 😅
Even I thought that for a second.
I had to watch that part a few times before I realized it was a mistake, I thought I was so dumb for a second trying to figure it out lol
Got very confused there for a second, had to watch it a couple times as well
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Dude. Very, very good explanation. I could not have said it better myself but here’s my request: FWD cars that fight their own urge to understeer… so weight transfer is as important as “from the wheels that slip, to the wheels that grip” -Subaru advertising. Now, a front wheel drive car can avoid understeer in a few different ways. The Honda or Acura Integra… the Pontiac Grand Prix GT specifically because the GTP was supercharged and unfair to the crowd…. Now what about the Cavalier SS? Who made the best FWD rocket… Mazda 3 is a hatch so I can’t include that. Think about those legendary FWD cars we love to hate and hate to love… did they use stability management?? I’ll say the, “Wider is better” slogan from Pontiac was true to a point. I turned that car inside out around the turns. Carved those wedges and I hated that it was FWD. VERY effective platform. I turned off the stability control and smoked those tires. Turn it back on and smoked those Mustangs that I love so much. Hahah
I cannot believe that I forgot about the Taurus SHO. SVO? Yep. Who made the best FWD.
Definitely late on this, but Acura's 1st gen SH-AWD was definitely ahead of it's time
I would definitely love an episode on electric cars and how they deal with torque on the street and off road because off road =]
My favorite torque vectoring experience so far was the Evo 8. Makes driving quickly so easy and with a lot of control.
Watching this reminded me of my 1st Gen Acura RDX. The SH-AWD system made that little CUV handle in ways it didn't had a right to for its category. Absolutely loved it once I realized that to get the most of it, using the throttle through the turn was key. I still miss it. They changed their character once SH-AWD was no longer offered.
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How's the turbo. Mine has a sticking wastegate
I have 3rd gen, baby handles like a dream for what it is
@@Kana0211 mine was fantastic for the 3 years that I had it. Had to sell it because I moved to a different state but the guy who bought it never reported any mechanical issues.
@@magick7637 Yes. Also handles like a spring recoil.
the editors of this channel deserve waaaaay more credit, they are top notch!
Welllll... about that...
At 2:55 he incorrectly called the axle input shafts, then also referred to the driveshaft as input shaft. But a few seconds later he called the axles output shafts. It caught my attention then within seconds I seen your comment. But yeah still, I agree with you. I love this channel
Why was Honda not mentioned? They were the first to implement an Active Torque Transfer System (aka: ATTS, on the Prelude, in 1997) that used clutches to direct power, instead of brakes (to waste power!)
I'd love to hear about quattro awd vs symmetrical awd. May be even talk about Honda & Acura iVTM4/sh-awd or Toyota TV-AWD. Especially as a Toyota lover would like to see if Toyota torque vectoring awd can be of any use or its just marketing bs?
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Toyota TV is def something I would watch
Acura/Honda did electronically controlled electromagnetic clutch packs for active torque vectoring in the SH-AWD system on the 2005 Honda Legend/Acura RL! Standard!
About a decade earlier they had ATTS on the fifth generation Prelude
Used clutch packs to feed more power to the outside wheel when cornering
This was 97 that it was first introduced so the Prelude really lived up to its name with this bit of tech
Would love to watch a B2B video about differentials. Between LSD, torsen, lunch boxes, spools, there's so many. I'd watch a long video about it. Love you guys. Keep up the great work!
At 6:50-ish there you had the tires mixed up. The outside won't spin as it has the grip thanks to the higher load thanks to weight transfer while turning. It's the unloaded inside tire that spins.
I absolutely love these videos they've taught me SOO MUCH about my car or cars in general but I have to admit this is by FARRRRRRRRt the most confusing episode yet ...
it's a lot of information at once, i'll admit I had to pause it a bunch of times or even replay parts to process before continuing, but in Donut's defense... "the most confusing" is in the title of the video, so it's not supposed to be super easy to understand.
4:12 The common unit of torque isn't LB-FT .... it is NM (newton meter)
Americans: *complain about lb-ft*
"Wouldn't have this issue if you would move out of the 19th century and start using real units like everybody else"
it just depends on where you live, this youtube channel is in the US so they're gonna discuss US cars and US units mainly, they may be "wrong" in the global scope but if you're an american and somebody tells you something in newton-meters they'll ask you why you're talking about fruit bars instead of car parts
@@eveleynce The US was the first country that started with implementing the part of the metric system in 1792 with decimal currency, _the dollar cent,_ although the quarter still exists.
That was even before France, first country, implemented the metric system in 1795.
I think this is my favorite series on the channel. Science for the win!
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It's my second favourite series after Wheel House 🙏
Been here watching the rise! Stay humble guys. Love you all and thanks for the content
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I really like your content, specially when you approach engineering and the specs of racing categories. Please keep up the good work.
I know that your audience is mainly US based, but I strongly suggest that you place both imperial and metric measurements. Nm is a standard unit and one that makes the whole pound-foot question more obvious for those who are somewhat familiar with kinematics from high schoool.
If think it is also helpful to establish that an open differential has some advantages besides the cost.
Again, good job.
I didn't really understand how well brake torque vectoring works till I got my C6 Vette. Makes you feel like a freaking racecar driver. Could literally throw the car was faster into a turn than you think you can and all you feel is GRIP!
Beautiful car. My dad had a 78 Vette. He only added a cam. I freaking loved that car. It reminds me of the Batmobile and the SR-71 Blackbird.
Drive safely, my friend.
I would absolutely appreciate a deep-dive video on differentials. The mechanics behind them, the different types, final drive ratios, etc.
The TON-MILE has always been my favorite unit of measure, commonly used to quantify mechanical wear of large wire-ropes used in very heavy lifting gear like that used in a drilling rig’s draw-works.
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So it's not an enormous unit of torque and is instead a measure of wear based on how much weight has been applied over a length of wire-rope?
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 I believe the metric first found use in the locomotive/freight/rail industry. Something to the tune of the weight in short tons divided by the distance travelled in miles equals ton/miles. I suppose it could be used many different application of scale, but wouldn’t an engine large enough to have it’s power output measured in ton-miles be awesome!? 🤘🏼
@@magnumcipher4971
I appreciate the explanation, the older I get the harder it becomes to still learn something new every day.
Yeah, I'd love to see a B2B on "posi" differentials, including the old school Detroit Locker, vs a TrueTrac, an Auburn, and the GM eLocker. Then there are the ARB Air Locker, the now defunct Gleason Torsen, and cheaper "lunchbox lockers" like the LocRite.
True Trac/wavetrack/powertrax or ARB for the win....trust me....I ship thousands of diff parts every day. True Trac can torque bias through its helical(or any helical of that design type) internal gears, also they don't require additive or clutch replacement over time(so they make up the difference from cheaper clutch style options) ARB is nice, but comes with all the caveats of installing an air system. Or you can get a motive wavetrack(helical like the eaton...pricey, but LIFETIME WARRANTY)....or I'd also recommend Richmond Powertrax pro series helicals....middle of road on cost...no additive or clutches to deal with still. Run from Auburn. Just back away from it slowly and turn and run. Interesting idea, but not rebuildable and uses special "conical" clutches....that you can't replace. Detroit lockers are pretty decent(but those are a locker....not a limited slip) but are pretty aggressive usually with dragging the outside wheel...not quite like a spool...but not pleasant on the street.
Spartans and lunchbox lockers go inside your factory open diff case after you pull spiders(most times, a few different ones use a cpl of the factory spider gears along with the new parts. E lockers work OK, but are not suited for serious wheeling/hp in most situations as they rely on magnetic actuated "pins" most times to engage on part of elocker....so not super robust...but will lock. GM oe limited slips are known as "gov bombs"....there's a reason
Torsen diffs work like any other helical for most part....just slightly different designs
@@bluewffl8472 Yeah, the Auburn is just like the GM Positraction, Ford TracLoc, or 70-up Mopar SureGrip. Not rebuildable. The older SureGrips could be reclutched. The original Detroit is harsh. The TrueTrac would be my choice, if funds allow. I'd settle for a LocRite, but as a Mopar guy, I know ya can't get em for the 8.75.
B2B and building miata/e36 are the most consistant shows on ur channel that Always bring a lot of fun!
as someone currently failing Cal 1, that differential joke hit a little too hard
I could really use to see how the acura shawd system works, like in the 09 rl with the accleration device
Jerry: *Casually sings 'It's my life' by Bon Jovi in the most Jerry way possible*
Ps:- we need a B2B on LSDs
@Panav Mendiratta We need a B2B or an Up To Spped on Bon Jovi now.
You have to do an episode on Acura's SH-AWD system. Would be awesome with how detailed your videos are.
Great video. Only thing is, I'm not so sure how much maintenence a LSD needs. I own a 30 year old Fox Mustang with 130k miles. A lot of those have been pretty hard miles. I have changed the dif fluid to synthetic around 50k miles, but that's it. The LSD still works awesome. Lays two long patches anywhere of any length at any time.
I learn something new every week watching Donut.
Thanks for the Knowledge.
Acura had torque vectoring well before Lexus. In 2004, the '05 Acura RL introduced torque-vectoring all-wheel drive.
As far as the Lexus system, nearly every Lexus since 2006 (and even many Toyotas) have vehicle-dynamics integrated management, which is essentially brake vectoring on steroids, capable of making millisecond-by-millisecond braking, throttle, and even power steering adjustments to prevent under or oversteer, often before it is even noticed by the driver.
Dont forget about the rear diff in a Nissan juke, its got lotsa clutches just like the sh system honda made. I personally drive an 09 rdx which is a very under rated car.
@@jamesgasper8630 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution from the 90's dude
@@christoforospaphitis4090 the Evo had clutches in the rear axle, but it couldn't overdrive the rear axle like SH-AWD. Only the Evo 10th-generation had true torque vectoring.
Donut Media: Here is how the active aero works on the new Koenigsegg Jesko!
Jeremy: Ok, first let's explain why wheels are round
I would love an episode about how electric vehicles do torque vectoring, especially for off-road oriented trucks. How does torque vectoring work in EVs with 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 motors?
In a four motor EV I’d imagine the “diff” would be mainly software controlled I’d imagine
It's channels like yours that make me not hate ads. Love your videos.
I love how smart this is! I will just believe in the magic of engineering until I can study this enough in detail
Love the videos as always. Especially these. I always learn something new.
.
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4:12 the common unit of torque is not the pound-foot, it's the newton meter.
Even the pound-foot itself is based on the metric system nowadays, just like the rest of the imperial system.
So calling it the common measurement like the USA aren't the only ones using it, is just wrong.
It's common in the US so someone from the US will say it's common
@@Kana0211 just because the US is using it doesn't mean it's common. It's specific to the US. It's like americans going to other countries and yelling at them to speak english.
@@dariolinder4508 Donut’s based in LA. Primary audience is also American. “Common” units are going to be the customary/imperial/American/whatever you want to call them units. Not everything is abt the rest of the world
Common is not the same as most common
Calm down dingle jingle.
My TLX Type S’s SH-AWD is by far the best AWD I’ve ever driven. I’d love to see a comparison to Audis’s Quattro AWD system. That’d be an interesting to see since I couldn’t find any other channel that had them both, or any systems amongst manufactures for that matter.
Motorcycles: haha 🤣 funny. We don't need that stuf 🙃
Man said "I ain't talking about differential in calculus either" then did an entire mini segment on the literal differential equation factor of force used to produce rotational speed in an open diff. 😂 I love it man
Jeremiah is hilarious and amazing!
I could be watching anything narrated by him :D
Keep it going, man! 😎
Aaand, bonus points to EDITOR, for letting us see those brilliant moments :)
I'd enjoy an episode on torque systems in front wheel drive cars, like the ATTS model Honda used in the Prelude Type SH
I’m surprised Acura’s SH-AWD wasn’t mentioned. Guess it’s an even more complex system
This was solely based on rear wheel drive
@@jonathanaminiel1823 that’s a good point, probably why they went to Lexus to explain it instead of Acura
The gyroscope joke gave me a good laugh. We have a local gyro restaurant and people are always pronouncing "gyro" (the meat) like "gyro" in "gyroscope" and it makes my eye twitch just a little everytime 😂
I was just about to wright "do an episode on audi quattro" And you said, "next episode audi quattro"!
Can not wait to see it m8.
keep on feeding me this episodes!! :D
I would definitely like to see a video on electric cars and torque vectoring.
That Sturgis shirts said everything I need to know about this man, he is the best 🤠 and jobbe too! 👏🏻👏🏻
Team Nolan here. They are all great at their position though. Boss team for sure.
This California boy knows how to score fans across the country! It's great to watch.
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Why not just use Newton metres for torque to make it less confusing?
Likely because the target audience is American
@@thomaseaton6142 yeah well Americans sometimes use nm as well and if the rest of the world uses it, then why make it more confusing?
@TheSlayer97 Genuinely, I have never seen or heard any Americans use Newton meters outside of science classes in high school and college, if it bothers you that badly for all the hypothetical numbers in the video, just replace him saying lb-ft with Newton meters
@@thomaseaton6142 it doesn't bother, it's just that they always say how they get confused about it
@@thomaseaton6142 I mean, this is basically a science lesson so is it not apropos
You know, usually your technical stuff isn't great but this was very good! Well done
Every possible episode you proposed in this video, I want it. Every single one of them.
I'd love to see more on the electric IWD (Independent Wheel Drive) that uses 4 motors. Please and thanks!
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Isn't this like the third title by now?
PSA: Omaze are a bunch of greedy folks who pocket 80-90% of donations.
Proof?
@@catinthehat5140 The Dark Secret Behind Those Omaze Giveaways - How Money Works here on yt
Well yeah it is a for profit company after all
YES. Please explain the difference between different LDS's; e.g. open, 1 way, 1.5 way, 2 way, etc.
Thank you so much for this explanation! I retained none of the information provided and will act like a certified mechanical engineer in every situation possible
Day 277 of asking Donut to bring old B2B back
ohhh buzz off. things change. deal.
the tesla roadster has torque vectoring id love to see how that works
I think you messed up a bit at 6:54. As you said just before, normally it's the outside tyre that needs some torque transferred, while the inside one loses traction (due to weight transfer and centrifugal force). This problem is exacerbated for RWD cars on uphill airpin bends where the rear inside wheel also has part of the weight lifted due to the elevation change.
Were just discussing with a friend how the new EV rally cars etc will handle the twisties with full torque from 1 rpm. So yea, looking forward to EV torque vectoring video and maybe a comparison from RWD/AWD/EV. Keep it up!
I'd like to know why it matters what torque they make at 1 RPM lol
Just bought my first car with a torsen limited slip, please do the video! I love getting knowledge from you guys, great teachers and easy to understand
All the B2b episodes!!! Diffs, torque vectoring 2 and pretty much anything would be cool
this may be the only instructional/informational video i've ever watched that I was sad it was ending...i didn't want it to be over....The Binge Begins..
Great stuff. Love it.
Please make a video about LSD, locking Diffs, etc.
Then a test run with lap times with the different systems. That would be awesome
LEEEEET'S GOOOOOO with the differential videos! Keep up the great work, Jeremiah!
@Sabrina Lovely 💙💙 Vaaas reportado(a)... ;) ;) ;)
Yes! Please do an episode on LSDs, Electric car Torque Vectoring and don’t forget Corvette C7’s “active differential”. Yeah car science!
I want that full B2B diff episode! This was awesome!
I've been into car for awhile and just now learned how a diff works, thanks uncle Jerry
VW released in 2013 on the Golf mk7 GTI Performance Pack the VAQ differential, that works with XDS. Basically that's the FWD version of what Lexus introduced later on the RCF. The VAQ has clutches to send more torque to the wheel with more grip and XDS is a brake based torque vectoring system, already available since 2009.
HAHAHA That ending, "Check out that show...We're different people." I am guilty of getting you two confused! I'm sorry!!! lol
I'm saying it again,but man, jery is The best host, really knowledgeable while being really funny
I have actually been looking forward to this video and the center differential video you mentioned since I was a kid playing Gran Turismo 2. I Always toyed with the adjustable settings on those center differentials and two-way limited slip LSDs but I didn't realize there were different ways of building a locking differential. I never appreciated the Active Stability Management as they called it (the brake based system). If I remember right this system was even supposed to apply breaks to wheels that weren't even driven to stabilize the car during excessive YAW. To me it just made the cars' handling feel more like an arcade game and I prefer to just rely on the adjustable limited slip differentials, it allows me to control how the steering feels.
Gyro scope joke was the best.
Yes it destabilized me
Yes ! We want all the torque vectoring video! Thanks 🙏
As far as I understand, torque vectoring is where torque is actually transferred using clutch packs or a mechanical system. Like in EVOs. While using brakes is now called torque vectoring, it is kind works in the opposite manor and is completly a reactive system unlike an evo
Great work, as usual. Yes, please do a video on how EVs do torque vectoring.
The laughter in the background after that SLD joke has me cracking up XD
Feck yeah.
Quality content right here which gives good explanation about interesting engineering concepts.
Tool Party was amazing. More of it please!!!
Looking forward to that upcoming episode. I have an AWD Lincoln and apparently it's FWD on a normal basis, and AWD when it needs to be. However, whenever I'm driving it and I need to do something that being AWD outshines FWD in, like hard acceleration from a standstill, or pulling through snow, this car does it seamlessly as if it's been in AWD the whole time! Would love to see what that big transmission looking thing in the back is doing behind those walls.
I feel that the gyroscope joke went over many people's heads, but I see you dude
Also more of this sort of content, pls.