What the Pros Won't Tell You, What's Best, Wood Dye or Wood Stain?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2023
- Choosing what woodworking finish to use is key to getting excellent results. Wood dye can be a great alternative and in many cases can be far superior to wood stains, but it really depends on the wood you are using, where the wood project will live and what it's purpose is; for example a wooden fence that lives outside, subjected to rain, wind, snow and sunlight is not a good candidate for wood dyes, on the other hand most Luthiers (custom guitar & violin makers etc.) will seldom use stain because of the "grain blocking" features of wood stain; when finishing any woodworking project to it's best, knowing what finishes to apply is just as important as knowing what woodworking tools to use.
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Manufacturers blur the distinction by creating coloured stains, eg green, bue etc. The only distinction now is, as you say, stains stay on top whereas dyes soak in. Unfortunately the renaming done by manufacturers do lead to confusion and difficulty in getting exactly what you want. Unfortunately it leads to test and find out. Not the most economical method. Thanks for trying to explain. As usual your videos are very informative.
yes I agree about the blurred lines between dye, stain and pigments and there is crossover and as you note, my point was to try and show the basic differences ... thanks for your input
Great explanation of the two processes. You've made it clear to me and i'll use the information in all future projects. Thanks, you are a great teacher.
This is one of the best and informative woodworking videos I’ve seen in a long time! I recently got some dyes in an attempt to make a white-on-black cerused oak piece, and the dye wasn’t working as I had expected. I was about to switch to a stain but decided to watch your video. The stain would’ve only made the final product worse, or at the very least would’ve meant more work for me to get it the way I wanted. Thank you for the info on chatoyancy too! I’ve always struggled to explain this effect but now I have a word for it. :)
Thank you for explaining the difference Collin. I knew they were different but not why, and now I do. 😊😊😊
This video was extremely helpful! Thank you for doing what you do!
I recently discovered wood dye and love it! I like how you can blend it. I've been trying that out on my hobby making solid wood board games. Thanks for the info and tips. I enjoyed your video😊
Very informative and interesting Colin!
You are a living library! Very informative and easy to understand. Thank you very much for the educated video!
Very good, been doing minor woodworking for years and never knew the difference.
What a great lesson Colin.
I learned so much today.
Thanks very much.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you. Very informative!
Thank you, Colin. You teach me something new every video.
My pleasure!
Wow, at last, somebody who knows what they are talking about and knows how to convey that knowledge. Thank you. I will be able to make finishing choices based on understanding rather than just hoping for the best.
Great info! Learn something every time I watch.
thanks for commenting
I am a professional wood finisher and I specialize in color matching. Dyes are great for transparent coloration, or final toning in finish. Solvent or oil stains are great for adding contrast to the grain fibers, and water stains are somewhere in between the last two.
P.S. You have some old stains lying around haha. Thanks!
Yeah, old stains, I guess that shows how much I don't use them ... thanks for your input
Do you have a website?
Thank you! I really didn’t understand the difference but your explanation makes sense 🤯
Glad it helped!
Nicely done Colin! 👍👍
thanks
Really excellent info, Colin! Thanks a bunch! 😃
I'm definitely going to look for dyes around here... And Indian ink as well, I believe it's something pretty similar!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Yes, India ink is another good choice I should have mentioned ... maybe another vid later on
Thank you, this was very helpful and interesting! Do you condition the wood before applying dye?
Excellent explanation. Thank you very much.💚💛🇧🇷🌻
thanks for commenting
You keep saying stain when you mean pigment. Stains can use either a dye, pigment, or both as the colorant. They can use various solvents and/or binders as well. See Bob Flexner's book or Jeff Jewitt's book.
Sir, you are a GENIUS. Could advise me on whether to use a stain or dye for a deep barn red look on a tool cab Im building. Using several kinds of wood in it. The outer frame is built with 2" x 12" framing joist lumber from Home Despot. (Lol). Repurposed scraps. The body covering is ½" wainscoating. The wainscoating is a bit soft and rough. I will sand it of course, to bring out the grain and lessen the blotchiness from oversaturation. I may actually need a pre-stain or gel or something to slow the absorption. Have not spot tested the Varathane Barn Red on it yet. But I will. What do you suggest. Dye or stain? Also i used some pressure treated wood on it too along the bottom rail 1" x 6" piece about 48" long. I could always stain or dye soe luan veneer and glue and pin nail it over the pressure treated stuff. Just wondering what you think. Also, any advice on general plywood to bring out the grains better? Dye or stain? All for indoor cabs. They will be in my nin-clinate controlled storage unit/workshop. Thanks a bunch. Really appreciate your wisdom and style and articulate explanations of the lighting physics, appearance and physical components of the store-bought stains vs the mixed dyes. Awesome info. Appreciate ya. Godbless 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼👍🏼😉
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Hey Colin, do you know how to Ceruse (oak)? I have used the liming wax method as well as the rust oleum (oil based paint) watered down. I have had inconsistent results and I would love to see a video on this topic. Thanks
I don't have much experience with cerusing (sp?) but I know there are a number of elements that need to be taken into account ... I will give your suggestion some serious consideration .. thanks !!
Application: Indoor oak veneer door and jamb
Will a stain work better with a wood filler than a dye? Such as nail holes? It seems that it would have a better cover effect, I do not have any experience with dyes. Thank you for your time.
Informative video Colin, where do you get your dye? We have a hard time finding it. I really like black dye to create a faux ebony.
Hi Stephen ... yeah links are now posted, I didn't link the article when releasing video but that is fixed now ... keep on cooking ;)
@@knecht105 Thanks!
I have used a lot of stains. I will get some dye I had no idea of using dye as something different. Thank you so much. Julien
You’re welcome 😊
Same goes for me. I saw another dye video and may use it going forward instead of the Varathane Barn Red stain. The dye is a MUCH DEEPER Crimson red. Very nice.
By the way, I did not know that stains were made from rock and dirt! Very interesting. I just assumed they used dyes in the stains. Lol. Go figure. I like a deeper richer look. All my work is for indoor tool cabs. The Varathane products are EXPENSIVE. 26 bucks per quart at Home Despot (sic). Lol. So I will be trying out the Crimson dye soon after watching your very informative video here. Very nice job.
So I wonder what Varathane uses in the Barn Red oil stain? Is that from stone and dirt as well? Hmmm 🤔 I love the light chatoyance explanation. I always wondered about that effect on say the luan when I Polyurethane it with the natural grain. Now I know. Specular vs diffused light! Awesome physics lesson here. Awesome info. 😉👍🏼
Birds-eye maple and curly maple are notorious for beautiful chatoyance. (I LOVE that word!) Lol. My dad was a carpenter. Always wondered about that effect on certain wood grains. Now I know. SO INFORMATIVE. I will watch this video again several times.
You mention @ 9:43 that you "pre-finish", what does that mean? And what do you use? Thanks.
I think i'm using dye😂 good thing i saw this video before finishing my desk. I was struggling with wiping my dye off thinking why isn't it staining?! Good thing i figured out how fast the dye was drying. Put on three or four layers in less than 2 hours😅
Good info. My goal is to not color my wood if I can avoid it. I prefer the wood natural color, especially if there will be food contact
Sounds great!
I don't blame Colin for not destroying his beautiful sample of bird's eye maple just for demonstration.
This was a good overview for someone like myself who has limited experience with finishes.
glad you enjoyed ... thanks
Wait, what's the blue spot on the wood at the end of the video? Where did that come from?
That was from some blue dye mixed up, but never used in the video
Hi how do these differ from “painting” on wood? Seen places online that suggest you can “paint” over a pine wood piece of furniture. Are these the only two methods that will work? Or are there other ways beyond them to add colour to wood like pine? Complete beginner here. Thank you!
I'm no expert, but there are entire books written on the topic. So to answer your question, "Are these the only two methods?" - No.
Great and helpful as always. What about raising the grain after application? Does the water based dye raise it more, resulting in more sanding? Lot to be said about using several colors of dye over multiple applications for interesting results! Stay safe.
Spritz (water in a spray bottle) the wood with some water and raise the grain. Sand it back, remove all the sanding dust, then use your dye. After it is dry, check to see if the grain has raised. If it has, sand it back lightly with a high grit of sandpaper (400 or higher) then reapply a light coat of dye.
I know on a guitar body paint will cover the wood grain to a solid color where dye or stain will still let the grain be visible.
I used to take the outer wrapper of walnuts, dry them out, and make dye fron that. Now I wonder if it's dye or stain.
well, because it's organic, I would call it a dye
👍👍👍
I seem to remember my grandfather mixing dyes with denatured alcohol back in the '60's or that's what I thought ge was doing. Am I way off base with that? Maybe he was putting it with shellac?
He was probably making shellac. My great uncle used 190 proof grain alcohol to make his shellac in the 1920's and later. During prohibition he bought it from a guy with a still. BTW, I'm in my 70's.
That's the same time my grandfather was doing it too. You may be right, he may have been doing shellac, I had not thought about that, he did use it for a lot of finishes as long as he was working in to the very early '70's. I'm 63, learned a bit from him and a lot from my uncle, both were carpenters & painters. They hung a lot of wallpaper too. Never really tried to get the hang of that.
What causes blotchiness when using stain on soft maple? Would dye have the same issues? Thanks
Wood is not uniformly porous. The pores trap the earthen pigment Colin refers too, so some areas of wood trap more pigment causing blotching. Some woods are worse than others like maple, or pine which is terrible. Research pre-stain, it seals up some of the pores on difficult woods which help lessen the effects of blotching. As for dye, idk, never used them.
@@christophermoore1774 thanks I will try prestain any suggestions brand you may have tried?
@@4Runner123 I have only used it twice, and as I understand it they are all basically the same thing, so I just got whatever the local big box store had. It was definitely helpful, but not perfect. Every piece of wood is different so there really isn't a perfect solution to the blotching problem. But prestain goes a long way toward lessening it on those troublesome species. Or you could try a different species of wood which is less susceptible to blotching. There are plenty of vids about it, check some out. Good luck!
@@4Runner123 I use Zinser Seal Coat. It is de-waxed shellac. 1/2 Zinser/1/2 Denatured Alcohol. It doesn’t take much! Apply lightly with a sponge brush. I start with 1oz of each. Get a small glass bottle and save any left over for next time. Good for maple and cherry too.
@@dian3145 thanks I’ll have to try something last time I had blotching issues. I have a whole bunch of western maple to make stuff from and staining is my fear you just don’t know if it’s going to have issues.
Can dyes be mixed with alcohol instead of water? Might dry faster.
Yes, apparently some can but I have not tried it, check with the manufacturer first
Have you ever tried mixing Rit Dye with minerals spirits?
I had never heard of wood until I watched some guitar finishing videos for no reason.
You never heard of wood??
You probably thought you were the only one, until you read my reply today, I imagine.
Which types of black would you have decided not to settle on, if you were to discover yourself to be found in my position later, of course, if any?
* I watched some of those videos, too, to be clear.
Demo would have been better if you actually applied the products to the figured wood.
hmmm ... thanks, good point
The article link gets a 404 error.
So sorry, working now ... my bad
Anybody else catch that stray hair? Ear or head?
Just had to trim mine up, great reminder.
hopefully not ear ... really need to invest in a mirror ;)
Playback Speed = 1.5x
Too bad there are not finished products to compare to
Good video and easy for peeps to follow. @wychwoodoakflooring