As a professional Concept Artist using multiple 3D and 2D softwares including VR for sculpting designs, I can say that VR is AN AMAZING TOOL, probably THE BEST there is at the moment with FREE SOFTWARE (this video is 100% wrong since the beginning, best professional sculpting softwares for VR are FREE, and substance modeler is one of the worst softwares for vr sculpting at the moment, so no, you shouldnt be even paying for sculpting in VR, not even for professional level software). That and many other things in the video shows there was very little to almost no research done on the topic, this video probably discouraged many beginner artists on using the most powerfull and intuitive tool there is for designing and sculpting at this time, because of that lack of research and thats sad. I was expecting something different like a new revolutionary sculpting software for non-vr users but this was just sad. At the beginning of the video, completely wrong information was given. Substance Modeler was NOT called Adobe Medium, those are 2 different softwares. Adobe tried to create a new and improved software with the foundations of Adobe Medium after they purchased "Oculus Medium" from Oculus and then renamed it "adobe medium". But, they failed, since they didn't develop Medium on the first place, Adobe had no idea what made Medium great and changed the entire team of developers and made a monstruosity of software that promised a lot and didn't deliver, so now Substance Modeler is a terrible "wanna be" version of Adobe Medium but not even close to adobe medium. Medium is still available for free (Substance Modeler on the other hand, is a Paid software) and it is used as a professional vr sculpting software for movies and video games (I have used it for a triple A movie and its an insane software). Medium was developed by Oculus and was alreay been used by professionals many years ago. Considering that Substance Modeler is the worst VR Sculpting software there is, it makes no sence to say that "VR Sculpting still sucks" when you are using the equivalent to "a broken pen to create a drawing" for a sculpting video and considering that professionals were using VR Sculpting since more than 6 years ago. Substance modeler is broken, it had great potential in terms of "ideas", but they couldn't make the software work with those ideas, so it is a broken and terrible software for sculpting compared to the Free high-end softwares like Medium and Gravity sketch (Gravity Sketch is evolving into a complete monster now, its tools are amazing). That's why we use Adobe Medium + Gravity Sketch, not only because they are free but because they are actually amazing. Sculpting in VR has been extremely efficient in terms of Time. Saying that "people with a lot of time will get good results" shows you didnt even ask professionals about the topic, because we wouldn't even bother to use VR Sculpting if it was slower than traditional 3D sculpting and modelling packages. On top of that, VR is actually Faster than drawing in many design situations, thats why we even skip the drawing phase for many designs and go straight to VR, which is a big jump in the art world, since no other artistic discipline could dethrone drawing and painting as design tools in terms of speed. No other tool in the history of humankind has been as fast as Drawing for visual communication and design, but VR dethroned drawing for the first time for been so fast for creating and sculpting, specially when you combine Gravity Sketch and Medium, the results are insane. Considering there is easy access to high level information about VR Sculpting on youtube and google, you clearly made a very little research about softwares. You can go watch old VR Sculpting videos from professionals like Finnian Mcmanus or Jama Jurabaev, 6 year old videos for free on youtube that show us that, even at that time, VR Sculpting was already amazing and has been used for AAA movies and video games, using the amazing speed and quality that VR offers to us. As a professional real life example of how powerfull VR Sculpting is, the first week I got my VR Headset, without having any idea on how to use Adobe Medium, I improved my design workflow for prop designs that used to take me a few days to finish. It went from days to now 3 HOURS...let me repeat...3 HOURS for a full sculpt + Full texturing and painting on top of the 3D sculpt in photoshop for a finilized design with multiple angle shots and showcase painting included for my modelers...that's INSANE time efficiency, without even mentioning that my modelers were happy to have a 3D sculpt to get an even better sence of the proportions, and this was my first time using VR, and went straight to use it into a real life professional project, thats what I call an INSANE tool. Since that day, I use VR. Considering I love drawing, painting, using blender, 3D Coat and now Unreal Engine 5 for helping me in my workflow, VR has still no rival, it is just insane. Only problem with VR of course, is that you need to take breaks to not get headaches, but if you just use a timer while sculping and take 15 minute rests for stretching and resting your eyes...nothing can beat VR, you gotta try it and actually care about understanding the tools inside medium and gravity sketch for at least 30 minutes in order to understand its power, but if you just dont want to do the research and practice for at least your first 30 min...then it makes no sence to just say it sucks. Its like saying that drawing itself sucks as a discipline, when you didnt even study perspective, draftsmanship, line work, etc... I was expecting a new Non VR software or something amazing when I saw the title of the video but, for real, this just makes me sad because I know how easy it is to discourage beginner artists and I bet many beginners just gave up on VR and now in a few months they will get slapped in the face when Meta Quest 3 gets optimized for VR Sculpting and becomes an even bigger standard tool inside pro industries. Even for hobbiest, this is the most incredible artistic tool there is, hands down. And I repeat, I love drawing and painting, blender and creating shit with unreal engine, but VR is just too amazing and at the moment, by far the coolest tool ever made for artists, finally combining drawing and sculpting skills into one without the limitations of real life physics and materials. This softwares are already great, just go and practice for a bit, at least put the effort and results are always great. Even Blender is harder to pick up and use for sculpting and even modelling, considering how intuitive it already is, it is not even as intuitive as VR with Medium.
@@ArtOfHorrorChannel thank you man. Btw, been talking to other concept artists and finally adobe made this software better, way better than the trash it used to be lol. So I guess now Substance modeler should work just fine at a professional level (not for production, not at all, only for concept art since concepts dont need production level assets), gonna try it out and see what happens. Still, Medium is amazing and 100% free, finished a concept mech design in 3 hours last night, so VR Sculpting is insane, Kodon is also about to go for its first official version on Steam wich has sculpting tools that Medium does not, that means Kodon might be a good combo with Medium when we are trying to handle anatomy and organic form details with speed. Kodon does not have the same stamp system as medium so I wouldnt try to use it for ideation, only for fast detail. Hope this helps, it is very hard to find information on youtube about VR and good quality softwares, and even harder on how to use them. So if you need any help with information just ask and ima try and respond when I can. good luck with your sculpting and have fun!
Bro thank you so much. I'm new to this and thought Substance 3D modeler was the best software out there, lol. Can you tell me about Gravity Sketch and Adobe(Oculus) Medium? How do they compare? Do you use both or just one? Is one preferable to the other? Are they interchangeable?
@@NinoMesarina I got kondon mostly because of a disdain for adobe, along with it having the vr sculpting + flat sculpting in one package. I can rough out a base model in vr and refine it on my huion display. in about 5 minutes I did more than I did in years prior wanting to get into 3d sculpting but finding every single aspect of it such a pain. honestly, I think if kondon could work though passthrough, or if they could let me assign a virtual display to my monitor/drawing surface and I could look to the left or right and see the resulting detail in 3d, it would be a near perfect program, just wouldn't be able to handle detail like zbrush because of the fundamental way kondon and zbrush are different.
I'm so happy I came across your comment. I work as a game artist and am currently waiting for my quest 3 to arrive and I REALLY want to try VR sculpting! Thank you for this.
indeed 'still sucks' when it's obvious he has hardly any experience with it... for me as a physical artist and engineer in real life, I find kodon so much easier than a flat screen... being able to shrink and expand the model and manipulate it to get good angles for sculpting is so nice...
@@kingscroach oh yeah absolutely, many vr sculpting apps are miles ahead of flat ones in terms of being intuitive. The only thing they lack is years of dev/community support, although I'd say some of the capability of 3D manipulation are superior in VR, imo
@@antares3030 Yep, it's rather new, the tech will get there more and more. Now we just need a bit of feedback to the hands and it will be similar enough to real sculpting but without any needed strength it might take manipulating clay or other materials.
medium still works and still is the best sculpting tool for vr. shapelab is good and so is kodon to an extent. but we personally cant seem to use it as easy as we use medium cause our workflow consists of adding a lot of clay and both of those programs seem to have trouble letting us do and insist we manipulate the limited clay. which is a shame cause shapelab has so much going for it as an actually professionally usable tool with so much optimization and retopology help, same with kodon afaik.
Yes, most things are frustrating when you don't know what you're doing. 😀I've been on the Modeller beta for 18 months and it's a fantastic tool and is production ready for pros in many disciplines already. Your issue is that you're trying to sculpt as if you're in Zbrush, using the beta clay tools that are just prototypes and not recommended. The trick with Modeller is to think in terms of volume sculpting rather than surface sculpting. The surface tools really shouldn't have been included in the 1.0 official release, but you should try it again from a volume sculpting mindset.
Great feedback and I agree with you 100% Modeler isn't meant to replicate zbrush by any stretch. Ultimately I don't want to talk down on modeler but bring to light that there is still room for a great VR organic sculpting program. I know there are a few out there that have been recommended to me but I haven't had the chance to try them yet
@@hartgameart Agreed 100%. VR is not quite there yet. I love the experience and fun in VR and the ease and fluidity of creation for certain things/projects, but in practical term, my paid work all happens in Zbrush. I have to say though, when you get used to navigating in VR it's INSANE how efficient it is to move around your scene and work, especially on larger, more complex characters. But until there's some sort of wacom pen-like VR gadget with haptic feedback I just wouldn't try and do any surface sculpting, even if we did have Zbrush-like sculpting tools. I was like you too. I was skeptical of VR and thought it was a bit of a toy for creating blobs. :D Having used it though, I do see the power and potential. Just like any 3D program, you get out what you put in. I did try all the other VR sculpting programs and tools-wise, Shapelab is the closest you will get to Zbrush/Nomad/Blender surface sculpting. Gravity sketch is slick for other modeling purposes, but not useful to my own workflow. As for kodon....an absolute buggy mess. Avoid at all costs. I had high hopes for it when I first got into VR, but it really is terrible. It's been in beta for 6 or so years and is just so broken that it's unusable. It has great potential, but the dev team are poorly focused and are a bit all over the place with priorities. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. Have fun in VR.
@@musashidanmcgrath Thanks for taking the time to share your insight. It definetely makes me want to revisit modeler with a refreshed perspective. It feels like overall enthusiasm for VR is down across the board but hopefully it continues to grow and it actually becomes more feasible for teams to spend the time to develop great VR apps. Have to give kudos to adobe for supporting VR despite the userbase probably being pretty small
@@hartgameart Yeah mate, VR is still very niche, with low adoption rates in general. It will probably be another year or 2 before Modeler is more feature complete and the headsets are better quality with a reasonable price. I think Nomad captured the casuals and pros are still very much entrenched in Zbrush. The VR voxel work flow definitely takes some getting used to and a change in mindset to your creation approach. If any VR program can do it I think it will be Modeler, because they have a great team of devs and are backed by Substance. My advice is to watch some vids by Gio Nakpil to see the work flow he uses. Most are in Medium but it's the very same process/approach. Also, once you master the warp tool in Modeler it gets very interesting. 😁
VR needs a deforming "cage" type tool. Like I added cylinder a wire cage appears around it with control dots to move the whole object, drag portions, taper, bend etc THEN confirm
I actually really enjoy 3d sculpting but I agree that things aren't polished enough. An interesting program to have your eyes on is Kodon. At its current Alpha state it's a mess and nothing I'd rely on. But man is it cool. The engine is insane and if they can get it to a stable release it's definitely the one to put your money in. Shapelab is cool as well but the engine isn't near Kodons. But again.. At the time of writing (june 2023) Kodon is far from ready. If you get more than five minutes without a crash you're in luck.
It seems more like you are still new to using the app rather than it being clunky, you don't seem to be totally savvy on this, I don't feel your whining is completely the app and interfaces' fault.
just bought shapelabs and really loving it, but im no modeling profesional so cant compare, but modeling away from the desk for short bursts, using physical 3d space certainly has some advantages for my posture/excercise
I'm surprised you had a hard time making something in this program. I use "adobe medium" (formerly oculus medium) and I'm 5 times faster in VR than in Blender. (I have about 500 hrs of blender experience so, an amateur in other words) and maybe about 50 hrs of experience in medium. But I was never a good sculptor in Blender, I'm a 2D illustrator who also uses real clay sometimes, who find 3D modeling on a 2D monitor to be exremely unintuitive and a horrible experience. Opposite, In medium, I just instantly knew what to do intuitively with my drawing background I just draw in the air. I'm not sure if Adobe screwed up and made the features of Medium *worse* but it looks like to me that you are thinking in terms of dragging and pushing the surface like you would in blender, instead of using the "volume" of the VR clay. Also you started on a very low resolution I think. In medium, the workflow nescessitates having seperate meshes on seperate layers, so your ears, mouth and eyeballs would probably be better on their own layer in here, with higher resolutions for those "meshes/voxels whatever", but I saw another commenter said adobe removed layers. That seems insane to me, and a must have feature. I can't currently afford adobe programs and kind of loathe their monopoly so I would only creep back to them if I had no option. Medium is decent but what I really want is for Blender's VR development to speed up. Sadly very few people are working on it. We only have a viewer so far. But I can make pretty good things in VR despite "virtually no experience".
@@Rasti1995 Agreed 100%. Kodon is one of the worst of any 3D programs I've ever used. It's been in 'beta' for about 6 years and is an absolute buggy MESS. Avoid at all costs.
I've experienced quite a few VR creation apps. I've tried out Substance modeler in VR, Oculus and Adobe Medium, Shapelab, etc. It's always a very different workflow in VR than on a 2D screen. I will still sometimes tinker with them from time to time but I find 2D to be more comfortable and faster. I agree with what Alex Negrea said about using primitives. Kitbashing primitives and custom models seems to be key when working in VR. I don't know about subtance modeler, but there is a way to install custom primitives into oculus/adobe medium.
In modeler you can dynamically adjust the primitives. Ex width, height, bevel, chamfer, tapper etc. this feature should be in all of the vr sculpting apps
I'm just a beginner and paying $50/month when Medium is free doesn't make sense to me. Tried Substance for a few days, going to check out Medium next. Does anyone know if I can export objects made in Medium over to the Unity game engine?
I just don't understand how it can ever be viable without a tactile surface to "sculpt" against. Just imagining doing fine delicate detail with one's arm floating in space - sounds exhausting, like a superfluous amount of muscles being engaged to emulate a reality that ironically seems more realistically emulated on a tablet. When sculpting in real life, one finds themselves engaged with a surface that pushes back so to speak. There's something instinctual to the feedback as opposed to the mental gymnastics one has to employ to make floating space emulate the same results.
I have beta tested this program and what i found most useful were the editable primitives. You can literally create worlds of shapes by using them. Also they removed the layers system that was in medium and switched it with a more user friendly way of organizing geometry
For me the best sculpting/3D art program for VR is actually a “game”, the PlayStation game called Dreams. So fun to use it, sad no app for pc… rly dumb decision.
I don't know if you know kodon VR ....the feeling of using medium VS kodon is like the comparison between blender sculpting vs zbrush ....one it gives you the sensation to really "feel" the sculpting ....the other one has no "feeling" ....
@@hartgameart don't .... yes it's good ...when it works 90% of the time it doesn't Devs are absent no updates no social media interaction 0 updates people bought and they comes after 6 months with a message "we are working on it " It is not possible
After watching this I can see a line of humans in my mind, going back all the way to stone age, each saying "This [new technology] sucks" while trying to apply his outdated skills. Look up what people are making my man. It's not the car, but the driver.
@@lostonegrey1555 Yeah. If it's like the other apps, it'll be $150. You can look into how they do the other Substance apps on Steam and it should work like that. I think you may only get updates for a year(?) but you own it
i never owned vr or ar glasses, but im really thinking about getting some if there ever will be good programms like zbrush or fusion360 ... doesnt matter any 3d software basically could implement this... what about blender?
check out shape lab...its not volume based but surface based like blender kind of. all these programs seem kind of basic tho. adobe medium came from oculus medium which is much more fully featured already but no longer supported. i think adobe is building this up from scratch for some reason i dont get. their v1 is very bare bones which is bizarre to me. nomad seems cool... has a good feel and thats something alot of vr programs lack the feel ironically.
How easy is texture work? 3d modelling is a piece of piss in 2D and looks easy in VR. But I've never gotten my head around UV wrapping and texture work. Always seemed unintuitive to me. I just want to paint directly onto a 3D model.
You are working so far away from the model, you need to scale up and down more and apply clay direct touching the model. Only problem I have is I dont have a steady hand when floating in the air. I guess this is good for doing all the blocking out and rough details then on the desktop do the high detail pass.
the best way to get at scale in VR or flat screen is to use an actual mannequin at scale and build around it. That's how it's done in the automobile industry, and of course game design
@@MrMOGHammer The difference is the sense of scale is missing on flat screen. VR through stereo vision has an inherit sense of scale build in.
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It is a bit sad that VR put you in there and should be more "intuitive" but is not. I am a strong VR believer and user. It puts you in the experience rather than disconnected like a screen does. But most of the UI are incomprehensible/not user friendly, the tools are not exactly doing what we expect, the tools are limited... I feel like were in a spot where Pc was years ago (over a decade) and while it'll take less time to catch up due to knowledge acquired, it will take time for tools to take shape and UI/UX to get to a place where it is used as a flat screen replacement.
Modeler has quite different logic in comparing to zbrush, you cannot expect it to do procise SCULPTING as in zbrush. I beleive it is more a MODELING tool than a SCULPTING tool... And it is more for concepting than for production I think. 🤣
I think you’re right on all points! From what I can tell it’s good at all of those things too. I just wish someone would take a stab at a sculpting centric program 😭
I think the best way to approach Modeler is by thinking Booleans. You can certainly make characters in it but that is not its strong suit. For hard surface modeling it's very good at it.
Importantly, it is not only the fingers and wrists but also the arms that play a role in the movement of the muscles in VR, which further impairs accuracy. In addition, this makes you get tired much quicker because you don't have the support for the hand that IRL sculptors have, so the accuracy deteriorates exponentially over time. This leads to more undoing and correcting which is a waste of time and add more frustration. However, the advantage of VR is that you can see in real 3D space and get the right shape much faster. The problem is that we need to bring the capabilities of current professional 3D programs under VR and figure out a way to not need to move the tool from arm as there is no counter support then that kill accuracy.
To be fair, once you've gotten the hang of it, you don't feel arm fatigue. I've done 8-10 hour sessions in Shapelab and gravity sketch, and only stopped because I was hungry. I used to think my arm would get tired from drawing on my cintiq, as i use it vertically, and my hand isn't exactly resting on it, but that's not the case either. And i have noodle arms, haha. For vr tho, when starting out, id recommend a chair with either a good height or height adjustable arms to rest your elbows on. You can do a lot of movements with your elbows resting, and then lift your arms for more complex things like move tool and whatnot. But constantly letting your arms come down to rest keeps you fresh the entire time. After a while though, you don't even have to rest anymore as your body kind of adapts? Oh, also, if you don't have them already, if you use a quest, or a headset with quest styled controllers, pick up those grips that wrap around the back of your hand, so that you can let go of the controllers at any time and they dont drop (like on the valve knuckle controllers). Being able to keep your hands loose with no tension will allow you to move more delicately and accurately, and also lessen the fatigue you may feel. Sorry if you already knew all this!
@@SeageSpeaks My front head will hurt much earlier than my arms because I tend to make sure the fricking strap is tight enough, I hate a headset that constantly moves around. Quest 2 here with an aftermarket head band. Which is still 1000x more comfortable than the OG strap that comes with it.
I heard it is developed by actual 3d modelers/artist so it might be worth a shot. I also just picked it up as well and so far so good. It should still be on sale rn too!@@hartgameart
still sucks...because you sue one of the ugly apps...there another sofware better than that and SHAPELAB its year before adobe sustance...and there another apps better..you say suck but only try one app and the worts app
You're a very talented artist, it's possible the stereoscopic 3D and the motion controls threw you off your established workflow. It seemed like you gave this software a cursory try at best before you proceeded to dismiss VR sculpting entirely. I wish you did some research before making this video. Contrary to what you said at 15:30, there are several programs that fill that niche, some feel quite close to Zbrush, with less features of course. Here are some examples of what can be made with VR sculpting: ruclips.net/video/RxcbQxoIWb4/видео.html ruclips.net/video/n9F854uHJJA/видео.html
Good god i thought i was the only one that felt this way. All videos of vr sculpting praise it so much. But then reslised that they could just be sponsored or ambassadors for that software.
Saw this vid on my recommendation right after Apple's Vision Pro announcement. I'm not a 3D artist. I do digital 2D art but man it would be much cooler for someone like me to walk around irl and look at a 3d object and sculpt that way. Would be so much fun and easier for me to understand
@@jasonh7194 seeing and sculpting are two different things. What’s nice of vr sculpting is that you get a sense of scale. But for details it’s difficult to get things precise. So right now I can see it being more useful as a blockout tool and getting the silhouette and then settling in zbrush or nomad sculpt.
Honestly, the moment this 'VR sculpting innovation' turned up I knew that 1 - it would be a pain in the ass to work with and 2 - I wouldn't even think for a second about wasting my money on VR hardware. I don't know what has to happen in the future to convince professional artists to replace a graphics tablet/pen display for this...
I could see having some sort of haptic feedback being a big leap forward but I think even still in the current iteration there is a lot of room to grow in terms of how the brushes feel and the sensitivity and that sort of thing.
I use both tools. VR for rapid prototyping and iteration and desktop (zbrush and blender) for refinement and final polish. It’s a fantastic pipeline if it works for you.
Which means you don't really know what's out there in the VR world until you actually buy into it and give you more time to try it. Trying it once at friend's cannot be possibly a good experience, especially that you need time to build your "VR legs" and I would add your "VR guts". There is a lot of fun into VR sculpting. Should try it.
As a professional Concept Artist using multiple 3D and 2D softwares including VR for sculpting designs, I can say that VR is AN AMAZING TOOL, probably THE BEST there is at the moment with FREE SOFTWARE (this video is 100% wrong since the beginning, best professional sculpting softwares for VR are FREE, and substance modeler is one of the worst softwares for vr sculpting at the moment, so no, you shouldnt be even paying for sculpting in VR, not even for professional level software). That and many other things in the video shows there was very little to almost no research done on the topic, this video probably discouraged many beginner artists on using the most powerfull and intuitive tool there is for designing and sculpting at this time, because of that lack of research and thats sad. I was expecting something different like a new revolutionary sculpting software for non-vr users but this was just sad.
At the beginning of the video, completely wrong information was given. Substance Modeler was NOT called Adobe Medium, those are 2 different softwares. Adobe tried to create a new and improved software with the foundations of Adobe Medium after they purchased "Oculus Medium" from Oculus and then renamed it "adobe medium". But, they failed, since they didn't develop Medium on the first place, Adobe had no idea what made Medium great and changed the entire team of developers and made a monstruosity of software that promised a lot and didn't deliver, so now Substance Modeler is a terrible "wanna be" version of Adobe Medium but not even close to adobe medium. Medium is still available for free (Substance Modeler on the other hand, is a Paid software) and it is used as a professional vr sculpting software for movies and video games (I have used it for a triple A movie and its an insane software).
Medium was developed by Oculus and was alreay been used by professionals many years ago. Considering that Substance Modeler is the worst VR Sculpting software there is, it makes no sence to say that "VR Sculpting still sucks" when you are using the equivalent to "a broken pen to create a drawing" for a sculpting video and considering that professionals were using VR Sculpting since more than 6 years ago. Substance modeler is broken, it had great potential in terms of "ideas", but they couldn't make the software work with those ideas, so it is a broken and terrible software for sculpting compared to the Free high-end softwares like Medium and Gravity sketch (Gravity Sketch is evolving into a complete monster now, its tools are amazing).
That's why we use Adobe Medium + Gravity Sketch, not only because they are free but because they are actually amazing. Sculpting in VR has been extremely efficient in terms of Time. Saying that "people with a lot of time will get good results" shows you didnt even ask professionals about the topic, because we wouldn't even bother to use VR Sculpting if it was slower than traditional 3D sculpting and modelling packages. On top of that, VR is actually Faster than drawing in many design situations, thats why we even skip the drawing phase for many designs and go straight to VR, which is a big jump in the art world, since no other artistic discipline could dethrone drawing and painting as design tools in terms of speed.
No other tool in the history of humankind has been as fast as Drawing for visual communication and design, but VR dethroned drawing for the first time for been so fast for creating and sculpting, specially when you combine Gravity Sketch and Medium, the results are insane.
Considering there is easy access to high level information about VR Sculpting on youtube and google, you clearly made a very little research about softwares. You can go watch old VR Sculpting videos from professionals like Finnian Mcmanus or Jama Jurabaev, 6 year old videos for free on youtube that show us that, even at that time, VR Sculpting was already amazing and has been used for AAA movies and video games, using the amazing speed and quality that VR offers to us.
As a professional real life example of how powerfull VR Sculpting is, the first week I got my VR Headset, without having any idea on how to use Adobe Medium, I improved my design workflow for prop designs that used to take me a few days to finish. It went from days to now 3 HOURS...let me repeat...3 HOURS for a full sculpt + Full texturing and painting on top of the 3D sculpt in photoshop for a finilized design with multiple angle shots and showcase painting included for my modelers...that's INSANE time efficiency, without even mentioning that my modelers were happy to have a 3D sculpt to get an even better sence of the proportions, and this was my first time using VR, and went straight to use it into a real life professional project, thats what I call an INSANE tool.
Since that day, I use VR. Considering I love drawing, painting, using blender, 3D Coat and now Unreal Engine 5 for helping me in my workflow, VR has still no rival, it is just insane. Only problem with VR of course, is that you need to take breaks to not get headaches, but if you just use a timer while sculping and take 15 minute rests for stretching and resting your eyes...nothing can beat VR, you gotta try it and actually care about understanding the tools inside medium and gravity sketch for at least 30 minutes in order to understand its power, but if you just dont want to do the research and practice for at least your first 30 min...then it makes no sence to just say it sucks. Its like saying that drawing itself sucks as a discipline, when you didnt even study perspective, draftsmanship, line work, etc... I was expecting a new Non VR software or something amazing when I saw the title of the video but, for real, this just makes me sad because I know how easy it is to discourage beginner artists and I bet many beginners just gave up on VR and now in a few months they will get slapped in the face when Meta Quest 3 gets optimized for VR Sculpting and becomes an even bigger standard tool inside pro industries.
Even for hobbiest, this is the most incredible artistic tool there is, hands down. And I repeat, I love drawing and painting, blender and creating shit with unreal engine, but VR is just too amazing and at the moment, by far the coolest tool ever made for artists, finally combining drawing and sculpting skills into one without the limitations of real life physics and materials.
This softwares are already great, just go and practice for a bit, at least put the effort and results are always great. Even Blender is harder to pick up and use for sculpting and even modelling, considering how intuitive it already is, it is not even as intuitive as VR with Medium.
This is the best comment on this video and deserves more upvotes!
@@ArtOfHorrorChannel thank you man. Btw, been talking to other concept artists and finally adobe made this software better, way better than the trash it used to be lol. So I guess now Substance modeler should work just fine at a professional level (not for production, not at all, only for concept art since concepts dont need production level assets), gonna try it out and see what happens. Still, Medium is amazing and 100% free, finished a concept mech design in 3 hours last night, so VR Sculpting is insane, Kodon is also about to go for its first official version on Steam wich has sculpting tools that Medium does not, that means Kodon might be a good combo with Medium when we are trying to handle anatomy and organic form details with speed. Kodon does not have the same stamp system as medium so I wouldnt try to use it for ideation, only for fast detail. Hope this helps, it is very hard to find information on youtube about VR and good quality softwares, and even harder on how to use them. So if you need any help with information just ask and ima try and respond when I can. good luck with your sculpting and have fun!
Bro thank you so much. I'm new to this and thought Substance 3D modeler was the best software out there, lol.
Can you tell me about Gravity Sketch and Adobe(Oculus) Medium? How do they compare? Do you use both or just one? Is one preferable to the other? Are they interchangeable?
@@NinoMesarina I got kondon mostly because of a disdain for adobe, along with it having the vr sculpting + flat sculpting in one package. I can rough out a base model in vr and refine it on my huion display. in about 5 minutes I did more than I did in years prior wanting to get into 3d sculpting but finding every single aspect of it such a pain. honestly, I think if kondon could work though passthrough, or if they could let me assign a virtual display to my monitor/drawing surface and I could look to the left or right and see the resulting detail in 3d, it would be a near perfect program, just wouldn't be able to handle detail like zbrush because of the fundamental way kondon and zbrush are different.
I'm so happy I came across your comment. I work as a game artist and am currently waiting for my quest 3 to arrive and I REALLY want to try VR sculpting! Thank you for this.
You're using flat screen techniques in VR, no wonder it feels clunky tbh
indeed 'still sucks' when it's obvious he has hardly any experience with it... for me as a physical artist and engineer in real life, I find kodon so much easier than a flat screen... being able to shrink and expand the model and manipulate it to get good angles for sculpting is so nice...
@@kingscroach oh yeah absolutely, many vr sculpting apps are miles ahead of flat ones in terms of being intuitive. The only thing they lack is years of dev/community support, although I'd say some of the capability of 3D manipulation are superior in VR, imo
@@antares3030 Yep, it's rather new, the tech will get there more and more. Now we just need a bit of feedback to the hands and it will be similar enough to real sculpting but without any needed strength it might take manipulating clay or other materials.
you arent sculpting like its voxels. you are trying to use surface techniques and wonder why its not good.
medium still works and still is the best sculpting tool for vr. shapelab is good and so is kodon to an extent. but we personally cant seem to use it as easy as we use medium cause our workflow consists of adding a lot of clay and both of those programs seem to have trouble letting us do and insist we manipulate the limited clay. which is a shame cause shapelab has so much going for it as an actually professionally usable tool with so much optimization and retopology help, same with kodon afaik.
I wish Zbrush could do some VR related stuff as well, I'd love to experience Zbrush in VR.
thats the dream
Yes, most things are frustrating when you don't know what you're doing. 😀I've been on the Modeller beta for 18 months and it's a fantastic tool and is production ready for pros in many disciplines already. Your issue is that you're trying to sculpt as if you're in Zbrush, using the beta clay tools that are just prototypes and not recommended. The trick with Modeller is to think in terms of volume sculpting rather than surface sculpting. The surface tools really shouldn't have been included in the 1.0 official release, but you should try it again from a volume sculpting mindset.
Great feedback and I agree with you 100% Modeler isn't meant to replicate zbrush by any stretch. Ultimately I don't want to talk down on modeler but bring to light that there is still room for a great VR organic sculpting program. I know there are a few out there that have been recommended to me but I haven't had the chance to try them yet
@@hartgameart Agreed 100%. VR is not quite there yet. I love the experience and fun in VR and the ease and fluidity of creation for certain things/projects, but in practical term, my paid work all happens in Zbrush.
I have to say though, when you get used to navigating in VR it's INSANE how efficient it is to move around your scene and work, especially on larger, more complex characters. But until there's some sort of wacom pen-like VR gadget with haptic feedback I just wouldn't try and do any surface sculpting, even if we did have Zbrush-like sculpting tools.
I was like you too. I was skeptical of VR and thought it was a bit of a toy for creating blobs. :D Having used it though, I do see the power and potential. Just like any 3D program, you get out what you put in.
I did try all the other VR sculpting programs and tools-wise, Shapelab is the closest you will get to Zbrush/Nomad/Blender surface sculpting. Gravity sketch is slick for other modeling purposes, but not useful to my own workflow. As for kodon....an absolute buggy mess. Avoid at all costs. I had high hopes for it when I first got into VR, but it really is terrible. It's been in beta for 6 or so years and is just so broken that it's unusable. It has great potential, but the dev team are poorly focused and are a bit all over the place with priorities.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. Have fun in VR.
@@musashidanmcgrath Thanks for taking the time to share your insight. It definetely makes me want to revisit modeler with a refreshed perspective. It feels like overall enthusiasm for VR is down across the board but hopefully it continues to grow and it actually becomes more feasible for teams to spend the time to develop great VR apps. Have to give kudos to adobe for supporting VR despite the userbase probably being pretty small
@@hartgameart Yeah mate, VR is still very niche, with low adoption rates in general. It will probably be another year or 2 before Modeler is more feature complete and the headsets are better quality with a reasonable price.
I think Nomad captured the casuals and pros are still very much entrenched in Zbrush. The VR voxel work flow definitely takes some getting used to and a change in mindset to your creation approach. If any VR program can do it I think it will be Modeler, because they have a great team of devs and are backed by Substance. My advice is to watch some vids by Gio Nakpil to see the work flow he uses. Most are in Medium but it's the very same process/approach. Also, once you master the warp tool in Modeler it gets very interesting. 😁
I find Substance Modeler approach pretty close to Dreams on PS4. You don't sculpt, you edit with adding and cutting shapes to get the desired look.
VR needs a deforming "cage" type tool. Like I added cylinder a wire cage appears around it with control dots to move the whole object, drag portions, taper, bend etc THEN confirm
I actually really enjoy 3d sculpting but I agree that things aren't polished enough. An interesting program to have your eyes on is Kodon. At its current Alpha state it's a mess and nothing I'd rely on. But man is it cool. The engine is insane and if they can get it to a stable release it's definitely the one to put your money in. Shapelab is cool as well but the engine isn't near Kodons. But again.. At the time of writing (june 2023) Kodon is far from ready. If you get more than five minutes without a crash you're in luck.
It seems more like you are still new to using the app rather than it being clunky, you don't seem to be totally savvy on this, I don't feel your whining is completely the app and interfaces' fault.
Definitely part of it
just bought shapelabs and really loving it, but im no modeling profesional so cant compare, but modeling away from the desk for short bursts, using physical 3d space certainly has some advantages for my posture/excercise
I'm surprised you had a hard time making something in this program. I use "adobe medium" (formerly oculus medium) and I'm 5 times faster in VR than in Blender. (I have about 500 hrs of blender experience so, an amateur in other words) and maybe about 50 hrs of experience in medium. But I was never a good sculptor in Blender, I'm a 2D illustrator who also uses real clay sometimes, who find 3D modeling on a 2D monitor to be exremely unintuitive and a horrible experience.
Opposite, In medium, I just instantly knew what to do intuitively with my drawing background I just draw in the air. I'm not sure if Adobe screwed up and made the features of Medium *worse* but it looks like to me that you are thinking in terms of dragging and pushing the surface like you would in blender, instead of using the "volume" of the VR clay. Also you started on a very low resolution I think.
In medium, the workflow nescessitates having seperate meshes on seperate layers, so your ears, mouth and eyeballs would probably be better on their own layer in here, with higher resolutions for those "meshes/voxels whatever", but I saw another commenter said adobe removed layers. That seems insane to me, and a must have feature. I can't currently afford adobe programs and kind of loathe their monopoly so I would only creep back to them if I had no option. Medium is decent but what I really want is for Blender's VR development to speed up. Sadly very few people are working on it. We only have a viewer so far. But I can make pretty good things in VR despite "virtually no experience".
Facts!
Kodon seems simple and ideal for basic sculpting operations.
Someone else mentioned that one too. I'm def going to check it out in the next couple weeks
@@hartgameart there's also Shapelab, it's polygon based, pretty good for sculpting:)
Kodon is the most buggied vr sculpting app that I've ever tried. Don't waste your money
@@Rasti1995 Agreed 100%. Kodon is one of the worst of any 3D programs I've ever used. It's been in 'beta' for about 6 years and is an absolute buggy MESS. Avoid at all costs.
I love Shapelab and Gravity sketch, personally.
I've experienced quite a few VR creation apps. I've tried out Substance modeler in VR, Oculus and Adobe Medium, Shapelab, etc. It's always a very different workflow in VR than on a 2D screen.
I will still sometimes tinker with them from time to time but I find 2D to be more comfortable and faster. I agree with what Alex Negrea said about using primitives. Kitbashing primitives and custom models seems to be key when working in VR. I don't know about subtance modeler, but there is a way to install custom primitives into oculus/adobe medium.
In modeler you can dynamically adjust the primitives. Ex width, height, bevel, chamfer, tapper etc. this feature should be in all of the vr sculpting apps
I'm just a beginner and paying $50/month when Medium is free doesn't make sense to me. Tried Substance for a few days, going to check out Medium next. Does anyone know if I can export objects made in Medium over to the Unity game engine?
I just don't understand how it can ever be viable without a tactile surface to "sculpt" against. Just imagining doing fine delicate detail with one's arm floating in space - sounds exhausting, like a superfluous amount of muscles being engaged to emulate a reality that ironically seems more realistically emulated on a tablet. When sculpting in real life, one finds themselves engaged with a surface that pushes back so to speak. There's something instinctual to the feedback as opposed to the mental gymnastics one has to employ to make floating space emulate the same results.
I have beta tested this program and what i found most useful were the editable primitives. You can literally create worlds of shapes by using them. Also they removed the layers system that was in medium and switched it with a more user friendly way of organizing geometry
For me the best sculpting/3D art program for VR is actually a “game”, the PlayStation game called Dreams.
So fun to use it, sad no app for pc… rly dumb decision.
I’ve always wanted to try that but don’t have a psvr. I agree though people have made amazing things with it!
Dreams devs are on the Substance Modeller dev team.
They really should've put Dreams on PC.
@@sonicsnake44 it would kill the market, i bet thats why they didn’t even put multiplayer on PlayStation for the same reason
@@musashidanmcgrath some of them yes, to help with the VR side of it mostly
at 6:30 you said you want to change the camera focal length. For that it uses the focal length of your eyes for being "VR", it cannot be changed.
I don't know if you know kodon VR ....the feeling of using medium VS kodon is like the comparison between blender sculpting vs zbrush ....one it gives you the sensation to really "feel" the sculpting ....the other one has no "feeling" ....
I've heard good things about Kodon. Definitely going to take a look
@@hartgameart don't .... yes it's good ...when it works 90% of the time it doesn't Devs are absent no updates no social media interaction 0 updates people bought and they comes after 6 months with a message "we are working on it " It is not possible
Have you tried Kodon?
After watching this I can see a line of humans in my mind, going back all the way to stone age, each saying "This [new technology] sucks" while trying to apply his outdated skills. Look up what people are making my man. It's not the car, but the driver.
100%
summarizing with VR you can only create Spore characters
can i buy this as a one and done program or is it just subscription based?
As far as I know its only subscription based unfortunately
Adobe is saying it will be on Steam like their other apps
@@BiteyThing Really does that mean no subscription?
@@lostonegrey1555 Yeah. If it's like the other apps, it'll be $150. You can look into how they do the other Substance apps on Steam and it should work like that. I think you may only get updates for a year(?) but you own it
@@BiteyThing Thats good to know thanks
shapelab looks so much better!
i never owned vr or ar glasses, but im really thinking about getting some if there ever will be good programms like zbrush or fusion360 ... doesnt matter any 3d software basically could implement this... what about blender?
check out shape lab...its not volume based but surface based like blender kind of. all these programs seem kind of basic tho. adobe medium came from oculus medium which is much more fully featured already but no longer supported. i think adobe is building this up from scratch for some reason i dont get. their v1 is very bare bones which is bizarre to me. nomad seems cool... has a good feel and thats something alot of vr programs lack the feel ironically.
That's because you didn't try kodon, not perfect but sure foreshadowing of what VR sculpting is gonna be
I dunno man, Kodon is pretty amazing and only $30 right now on Steam... have you tried it?
I've heard good things about Kodon! Looking to give it a try as well as a few other apps soon
How easy is texture work?
3d modelling is a piece of piss in 2D and looks easy in VR.
But I've never gotten my head around UV wrapping and texture work. Always seemed unintuitive to me. I just want to paint directly onto a 3D model.
You are working so far away from the model, you need to scale up and down more and apply clay direct touching the model. Only problem I have is I dont have a steady hand when floating in the air. I guess this is good for doing all the blocking out and rough details then on the desktop do the high detail pass.
You can use it for free still if you just download the beta
Why not on mac!!
Please make a video on fibermesh all settings explained. like u made for zremesher(this helped a lot)
Probably great for environments and vehicles and stuff like that since you are always at scale in VR and can notice scale much much better.
the best way to get at scale in VR or flat screen is to use an actual mannequin at scale and build around it. That's how it's done in the automobile industry, and of course game design
@@MrMOGHammer The difference is the sense of scale is missing on flat screen. VR through stereo vision has an inherit sense of scale build in.
It is a bit sad that VR put you in there and should be more "intuitive" but is not. I am a strong VR believer and user. It puts you in the experience rather than disconnected like a screen does. But most of the UI are incomprehensible/not user friendly, the tools are not exactly doing what we expect, the tools are limited... I feel like were in a spot where Pc was years ago (over a decade) and while it'll take less time to catch up due to knowledge acquired, it will take time for tools to take shape and UI/UX to get to a place where it is used as a flat screen replacement.
Modeler has quite different logic in comparing to zbrush, you cannot expect it to do procise SCULPTING as in zbrush. I beleive it is more a MODELING tool than a SCULPTING tool...
And it is more for concepting than for production I think. 🤣
I think you’re right on all points! From what I can tell it’s good at all of those things too. I just wish someone would take a stab at a sculpting centric program 😭
@@hartgameart haha, sounds like somebody has been sick of zbrush for long time. :)
I think the best way to approach Modeler is by thinking Booleans. You can certainly make characters in it but that is not its strong suit. For hard surface modeling it's very good at it.
Importantly, it is not only the fingers and wrists but also the arms that play a role in the movement of the muscles in VR, which further impairs accuracy. In addition, this makes you get tired much quicker because you don't have the support for the hand that IRL sculptors have, so the accuracy deteriorates exponentially over time. This leads to more undoing and correcting which is a waste of time and add more frustration.
However, the advantage of VR is that you can see in real 3D space and get the right shape much faster. The problem is that we need to bring the capabilities of current professional 3D programs under VR and figure out a way to not need to move the tool from arm as there is no counter support then that kill accuracy.
To be fair, once you've gotten the hang of it, you don't feel arm fatigue. I've done 8-10 hour sessions in Shapelab and gravity sketch, and only stopped because I was hungry. I used to think my arm would get tired from drawing on my cintiq, as i use it vertically, and my hand isn't exactly resting on it, but that's not the case either. And i have noodle arms, haha.
For vr tho, when starting out, id recommend a chair with either a good height or height adjustable arms to rest your elbows on. You can do a lot of movements with your elbows resting, and then lift your arms for more complex things like move tool and whatnot. But constantly letting your arms come down to rest keeps you fresh the entire time. After a while though, you don't even have to rest anymore as your body kind of adapts?
Oh, also, if you don't have them already, if you use a quest, or a headset with quest styled controllers, pick up those grips that wrap around the back of your hand, so that you can let go of the controllers at any time and they dont drop (like on the valve knuckle controllers). Being able to keep your hands loose with no tension will allow you to move more delicately and accurately, and also lessen the fatigue you may feel. Sorry if you already knew all this!
10min of exercises every day and you won't feel tired that easily
@@SeageSpeaks My front head will hurt much earlier than my arms because I tend to make sure the fricking strap is tight enough, I hate a headset that constantly moves around. Quest 2 here with an aftermarket head band. Which is still 1000x more comfortable than the OG strap that comes with it.
It’s look not like gravity Scetch, what is it?
You are so interesting artist !
man whatever, vr saved sculpting.
you’re right I apologize
Have you tried Shape Lab yet? Just watched a video on BoroCG's channel about it and it appears to be a much more intuitive experience than modeler.
Not yet there is a few that I want to try out. Will definitely take a look
I just discovered Shapelab and find it very intuitive and extremely stable so far, its a pleasure to use.
I heard it is developed by actual 3d modelers/artist so it might be worth a shot. I also just picked it up as well and so far so good. It should still be on sale rn too!@@hartgameart
still sucks...because you sue one of the ugly apps...there another sofware better than that and SHAPELAB its year before adobe sustance...and there another apps better..you say suck but only try one app and the worts app
You're a very talented artist, it's possible the stereoscopic 3D and the motion controls threw you off your established workflow. It seemed like you gave this software a cursory try at best before you proceeded to dismiss VR sculpting entirely.
I wish you did some research before making this video. Contrary to what you said at 15:30, there are several programs that fill that niche, some feel quite close to Zbrush, with less features of course.
Here are some examples of what can be made with VR sculpting:
ruclips.net/video/RxcbQxoIWb4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/n9F854uHJJA/видео.html
Good god i thought i was the only one that felt this way. All videos of vr sculpting praise it so much. But then reslised that they could just be sponsored or ambassadors for that software.
Saw this vid on my recommendation right after Apple's Vision Pro announcement. I'm not a 3D artist. I do digital 2D art but man it would be much cooler for someone like me to walk around irl and look at a 3d object and sculpt that way. Would be so much fun and easier for me to understand
@@jasonh7194 seeing and sculpting are two different things. What’s nice of vr sculpting is that you get a sense of scale. But for details it’s difficult to get things precise. So right now I can see it being more useful as a blockout tool and getting the silhouette and then settling in zbrush or nomad sculpt.
Or you could be just using it wrong
or... u r just to old ;)
Honestly, the moment this 'VR sculpting innovation' turned up I knew that 1 - it would be a pain in the ass to work with and 2 - I wouldn't even think for a second about wasting my money on VR hardware. I don't know what has to happen in the future to convince professional artists to replace a graphics tablet/pen display for this...
I could see having some sort of haptic feedback being a big leap forward but I think even still in the current iteration there is a lot of room to grow in terms of how the brushes feel and the sensitivity and that sort of thing.
Try Kodon, you'll change your mind
I use both tools. VR for rapid prototyping and iteration and desktop (zbrush and blender) for refinement and final polish. It’s a fantastic pipeline if it works for you.
it's not a pain at all though
Which means you don't really know what's out there in the VR world until you actually buy into it and give you more time to try it. Trying it once at friend's cannot be possibly a good experience, especially that you need time to build your "VR legs" and I would add your "VR guts". There is a lot of fun into VR sculpting. Should try it.
This guy just sucks , It is not the tool , he is just not skilled.
you’re right