Can Men and Women Be JUST Friends w/ Jacob Imam
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2023
- 📺 Full Episode: • The Importance of Frie...
Matt and Jacob try to decipher if men and women can be purely platonic friends at different stages in life.
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Scripture says to treat women as sisters, so I'd say yes, we can be friends, but to do this, you have to put restrictions on the relationships and forego any possibility of romantic involvement
I would say yes, because Jesus was friends with Mary Magdalene, and Martha and mary.
The issue really is that most people have no control whatsoever over their passions. They let their emotions control them.
If you have self control, it's easy to have a chaste friendship with the other sex. But if not, you are setting yourself up for sin.
Good answer! It is possible, the issue is only in letting yourself get invested too deeply and letting romantic/lustful feelings form. Obviously Jesus would've had no issue with this, but it's simply a matter of being mindful and honest with yourself; why are you *really* talking with this person?
We should be mindful but not neurotic about it lol 👍
But Jesus is Jesus
@@SenseiIceman and we are called to imitate him.
Not that we should start trying to walk on water when we cannot even fast, but we should take baby steps
The best scenario for opposite sex friendship is when both of them avoid or are not interested in romantic or sexual feelings towards the other, and yes, it is possible (I know it from experience).
If both are looking for a genuine friendship, and they both cultivate that friendship. That can be wonderful.
Each will have an absolutely different point of view to see and understand and a friend to rely on.
My best friend for the past 15 years is a female. No, we haven't had sex or anything like that. Not even a romantic phase or anything. Just friends.
I also must say that we have always been very aware of how different a female and male are. We have debates and talks about almost anything, politics, religion, and philosophy. And yes, it is obvious we are different.
Now she is happily and I told her that now her priority is her new family. I visit her when her husband is around. If we hang out, he has to be present.
Not because something is going to happen if he is not present. But out of respect.
And she understood everything. So I guess it depends on the character of each person too. But this is just my experience, maybe and exception, I don't know and I don't think so.
Same. I get such hate and no one believes it has always been platonic with my one male friend/former coworker, not a best friend just a good male friend. We communicate boundaries, understand the differences between male and females and adjust boundaries accordingly out of respect for our partners. It’s has a different value than my female friendships. If you approach a friendship with a man like he is a woman thats not going to end well. Not sure how it is in the male side probably similar.
As far as friendships between two guys go, it is irritating when the hyper sexual culture automatically assumes that two men in the same room are gay together rather than considering that maybe, just maybe, the two guys see each other as just fellow men or as brothers.
My closest friend(a woman) found a cd of those Lewis talks about love in his own voice at a Goodwill and bought it for me. Lewis is a personal hero of mine, so this was a wonderful gift.
I have autism, and as such I've always struggled with casual and large group hangouts, and I don't like loud/bright environments where casual hangouts tend to take place. So I've always preferred to hang out with one or two people at most, and primarily in quieter settings that foster deeper, more meaningful conversation. When I was secular, women would be perfectly fine with this type of friendship. As I have become Catholic, however, I've noticed that it is quite different and women tend to shut down any attempts at trying to be friends in the way that I am accustomed to having friends. It has been something that I've been pondering quite a bit, and have realized that there is logic behind their actions, and it is something I need to get used to.
As I've reflected on my past, I've realized that just about every woman who I have been friends with in the past in an individual way I've ended up developing feelings for. This ends up being unwanted by the woman, and results in me being even more awkward because nobody ever taught me how to express romantic feelings in a healthy way. This has caused a lot of friendships to fall apart and emotional distress for me. I also find that once I develop feelings for someone, I start having way too many unwanted/intrusive thoughts about them, which causes further distress and unhealthy attachments.
So while I am sure some men and women can be friends without it going further, and without romantic feelings, I don't think that it is wise or prudent for me personally to continue trying to develop close, individual friendships with women.
I can sympathize with that feeling, even though it comes less from autism and more from a fear of screwing up.
I love this as a single woman. 🙂 I’m friends with a great guy now, but it did come up where I had to clarify that I’m in a season when I don’t want to look into dating. He was very gracious about it, which means the world to me! I think having a friendship with a guy and having the question about dating come up has actually made me less afraid of the communication that will be involved in a dating relationship. I’ve learned that the men I should trust are the ones who will be okay with my “no” when I express it. (I was once in a situation where a well-meaning guy wouldn’t accept that I just didn’t want to date him. It didn’t feel like a safe relationship for me, and I’m so grateful that this wasn’t a repeat of that! Pursuing a woman is a noble thing, but I think it should always be done in a way that respects her dignity and her choice.)
The male friendships segment reminded me of a story about a tracher at my highschool.
He had two cousins who would make fun of him when he was younger because his dad would kiss him, and thier dad didn't do that so they thought it was "kinda gay". Well, sadly, years later the cousins father had committed suicide. At the funerial, the cousins had appoligized to him. Reason being is that they came to the conclusion that since the father didn't show his heart to them, he didn't show his hearts and troubles to others and bottled them up. So, when it came time for help, he didn't ask for it.
As for the close friendships as a man, I have garnered very close relationships with two particular male friends and we say that we love each other, we have hugged, and we have even cried with one another. We struggle together and if we need anything we talk and try to grow as men. We strive for something that together. And it is one of the most beautiful things i think God has allowed me to experience.
I think you have to know yourself and know if a friendship would be a problem. Can married persons be friends with opposite gender persons? Yes, but not if they're the sort who will follow through on some sort of extramarital attraction. Some friends won't work. Imagine a person who drinks regularly - not to intoxication, just as part of their life - being friends with an alcoholic. It won't work.
Men and women who are single can absolutely be friends, too. Yes, there is a difference between male-male friendships (or female-female) and male-female friendships, and you can have both in your life.
Such an important conversation! Thanks for the great content!
As a practicing Muslim, I am so happy to see that Christians are getting back to their roots and are standing against the identity crisis Christianity has been subjected to for decades now.
I've been wondering. Isn't there a growing secret apostate problem among youth and the young adults in Muslim nations? I remember in a poll of the youth in Iran; that a very large percent of them didn't consider themselves religious anymore. I would guess that is the case in other Muslim nations as they become more industrial/developed.
The difference, though:
Christians are having this done to them by atheists, communist (not that they're mutually exclusive), and Muslims alike.
Muslims do it to themselves.
convert to catholicism, brother
@@adaoraumeh4513 it’s because Mullahs are forcing religion rather than leaving it to an individual.
I’m so happy you’re happy🥺❤️
I really like this editing :) keep it up!
Is it possible? Yes. Is it hard? Clearly. Is it worth it? Definitely. Before and after our marriage me and my wife maintained our opposite sex friendships. Though things have to change with marriage (like in all other relationships) we feel very entrusted in each other because we know that that every relationship each one of us has is very important and even if we need to be really careful in this topic we hope that our relationship may sanctify all others.
My sister has always been friends with men more than women. Yes, she is married (22 years) raising sons. She was a tomboy growing up and just enjoys male friends more than females.
I relate to what Matt said about having more lady friends than guy friends, especially when younger. I always attributed it to young guys generally being more immature in our society, so as an old soul I had trouble relating to them as much. Nowadays (at the ripe old age of 27) I have a couple close guy friends, and it is a huge blessing. A man and woman can be friends, but it is a different type of relationship, I think. I’m not at all an expert in Greek, but I might say my love for a female friend feels like Lewis’ definition of storge, or “fondness”, while for my close guy friends it is philia or “brotherly” love.
Another way I’ve heard the four loves explained is by how you are oriented towards each other. Philia is the two people, side by side, facing a common goal. Like teammates in a team sport, for example. Eros is two lovers oriented towards each other. I don’t recall the examples for storge and agape, but when I think about that way, if I were facing a problem or threat with a guy friend, I would meet it alongside and with him. For a female friend, I think I would meet it for her, not with her.
If that didn’t make sense, I would fix a door *with* my guy friend, but *for* my lady friend. If a dog attacked us, I’d fight it with my guy friend at my side, but my lady friend at my back. At least that what my instincts are. Maybe I’m misreading the relationships or myself, but I feel like the correct answer is to affirm the possibility of friendship but also to acknowledge that there is a difference between the two.
Actually there is something wrong with buying things from China and we all should avoid that as much as possible.
What is wrong with buying things in China?
@@ajj5691 China is contributing to the destruction of America.
Big-time.
Do you follow the news at all?
@@ajj5691 they use forced slave labor as often as not and their government is a tyrannical authoritative dictatorship that squelched human rights, especially exercise of religion, and buying from China props up that dictatorship which means we are participating in supporting something so atrocious.
It's gotten really, really hard to avoid buying made in China products, but it would be nice if people made a conscious effort to avoid it at least sometimes
The answer's yes, but please just be honest with yourself... Watch out for lust and romantic feelings forming. Don't play with hearts. Be expressly clear and don't take advantage of others, even in little ways. Simply ask yourself: why are you *really* speaking with this person?
We must be mindful about it, but not let ourselves become neurotic about it lol. The human race is a 50/50 split of men and women, so we better find a way to healthily coexist lol.
I found it extremely difficult amd couldnt believe it was possible until after i got married. Now i find i can, but don't have any i want to friends with besides my wife's friends
Where can I find The clip from C.S.Lewis?
My best friend is a woman, and we share a deep platonic love for each other. She’s like the sister I never had. To say that you can’t have close female friends while in a romantic relationship is so limiting. We need deep relationship with both sexes, and that shouldn’t be in competition with our romantic relationships.
The most important question in this discussion is "What is the Edenic ideal?" It seems to me that if we would have had non-sexual friendships with the opposite sex in Eden, and if we will again in the new earth, then it obviously isn't wrong in itself. I think it should be more normal. Interpreting every relationship with suspicion about people's motives is exhausting and uncharitable.
I'm sorry, but this is woefully naive. There is no sex in heaven, and there was no concupiscence in the Garden. Now in this fallen world, we have concupiscence, and we have biological urges easily abused to the detriment of ourselves and others. You cannot ignore biology: men have the drive to procreate with the opposite sex, which is why a woman, for example, should be perfectly justified in her suspicions that her male friends want something else as well. Would you call someone uncharitable for suspecting a nearby scorpion could sting them?
@@francikeen I don't agree with your presuppositions. I don't think the incarnation or the resurrection meant anything at all if they can't actually free us from sin. You can go on believing in a completely impotent salvation, if you like.
@@francikeen Clearly, I don't understand, I'm young, I was never taught.
Sure thing. Obviously, whenever anyone disagrees with your enlightened mind, it's because they're wrong and stupid.
I don’t think I have ever felt the desire to ever befriend a girl. It’s my view that there is nothing that a woman can give me in a friendship that a man cannot.
I think that generally speaking whenever a guy befriends a girl the main motivating reason is physical attraction. I think that the proof of this is how prevalent the friend zone is.
I also believe that it is fully possible for a man and woman to simply be friends with each other but that it is much easier for a woman to feel this way about a guy friend than a guy to feel this way about a girl who is his friend.
Personally, a lot of my closest friends have been women. And I'm married now, and my pre-existing female friendships are still strong. Sure, there may have been instances of passing physical attraction, but at some point the mutual connection landed in a place of friendship based on values, common interests, and insightful conversations. Opposite sex friendships are totally possible, especially if one's psycho-sexual development has been healthy.
In friendships between males and females, the nature of the relationship might need to be considered to remain just friends. For instance, if two people make their relationship solely about caring for each other, their relationship might become romantic, as caring is a big part of marriage. If this occurs, they might want to find some common love or meaning which grounds their relationship in something external to their relationship.
Is caring only associated with romantic relationships though? I would rather say that if someone's response to care (receiving or giving) is developing a romantic attraction, that is a sign of our disordered sexuality after the fall, which, as with all passions, is not perfectly contained and under our will.
Couldn't caring be also consider rather a motherly/parental thing to do? Or a brotherly care and responsibility. It certainly is. Why is it then that the immediate association with a caring relationship is to develop romantic feelings? (I'm not saying there's an easy answer to that or that it isn't true, we indeed have certain drives and inclinations, however, they belong to the 'old man' wounded by the original sin, and by grace we actually can overcome the instinctual and disordered drives - not only sexual but all kinds - which we are actually called to do, in each and every one of our relations).
In the end, you can't have human relationships and closeness without caring and emotional attachment. But that doesn't have to mean they have to be romantic.
We are indeed called to marriage, but for this special relationship, it's ought to be exclusive relationship, one man and one woman God created them. At the same time, we're also called to be brothers and sisters with all the others, as a universal call, and in some cases even mothers and fathers in a spiritual and symbolic sense (as in mother/father figure; and I'm specifically not mentioning here biological parenthood which is obviously within marriage, I'm talking now about the wider call about how to treat those who are not related to us by blood or by marriage).
Here is my thing about male/female friends. It can happen, but its rare. If I have a new GF. I doubt I would be trying to go out of my way to befriend a new woman in my life. At most, she would be an acquaintance. No major outings beyond a coffee shop. No vacations together or fun things without my GF.
Answer: no
@3:00 😂😂😂
A theology doctor once said - yes, it is possible. BUT only when both persons are happy in their vocation. Which is not happening a lot, which creates danger of falling into an affair and/or sin with the other person. Simply because you might find in this person something, you're not receiving in your vocation, and you're seeking it. Do not befriend other people spouses without involing yours and theirs - obviously I mean spouses of the opposite gender.
P.S. my co-worker did it with a girl from our office. He was seeking something he was not getting from his wife - nothing happened between this office girl and him, but his wife was heavily suspicious of him. He was also using dating apps a lot. His wife cheated on him and they're currently divorcing. I'm not justifying her actions, as she wasn't thinking about children etc., but I can see how it came to it. Let me repeat - do not befriend other people spouses!
He was using dating apps while he was married??
@@rickygcfo IKR?
Sounds like he was cheating already
Very smart, what the theology doctor said. I think it's not only about entering the relationship, but all the time. Because one can have vocation struggles at any time, for whatever reasons. And it's not just about friendships but anything else,that can be abused to fill the void. Lesson from that, I guess, is always put your God given purpose/vocation first, and the rest will sort itself out in a proper and good way.👍
I definitely think there’s an issue with the awkwardness of there being a potential escalation of the relationship between a man and a woman. However, if you’re talking about people who are single, that’s not necessarily even a bad thing. I know plenty of stories of men and women who became friends and ended up falling in love with each other, and that’s among the better ways relationships tend to form these days.
The two bigger issues, in my opinion, are first, the issue of face and honor. It’s damaging to a man’s personal credibility to have close female friends. Whether justly or unjustly, it’s seen as belying a weakness of character and a deficiency of manhood that a man might befriend a woman without bedding her. The reverse isn’t really true. If a woman is married, then yes, her having many close male friends would be scandalous, but assuming both are single, unlike the man, the woman has no need to create a justification for their friendship, or else lose the respect of those around her. The inherent shame associated with such friendships can often lead to their character becoming extremely sick over time, which is one reason why men and women might not want to befriend each other.
The other problem is the inherent lack of compatibility between the lives consciences and interests of men and women. This isn’t fatal to a friendship, but men and women think differently. We see the world differently, and we see friendships differently. If either party tries to treat the other like a member of their own sex, that relationship is going to eventually become sick and deteriorated, especially if the woman tries to treat the man like a female friend.
Intersex friendships can be great, like any other, but they come with a lot more inherent dangers than same-sex friendships.
My best friend for the past 15 years is a female. No, we haven't had sex or anything like that. Not even a romantic phase or anything. Just friends.
I disagree with some of your points, but I also must say that we have always been very aware of how different a female and male are. We have debates and talks about almost anything, politics, religion, and philosophy. And yes, it is obvious we are different.
Now she is happily married and I told her that now her priority is her new family. I visit her when her husband is around. If we hang out, he has to be present.
Not because something is going to happen if he is not present. But out of respect.
And she understood everything. So I guess it depends on the character of each person too. But this is just my experience, maybe and exception, I don't know and I don't think so.
Ad. the issue of saving face and honor, and having female platonic friends seen as somewhat less for a man. I wonder, where are you from? I think what you're talking about is very cultural. (it may be either depending on the culture of a country or even just a sub-culture, certain social environments, etc.). I myself just first hear about approach like this. So that's why I wonder where you're from?
I would also say there's not just either treat the opposite sex as your own, or else you develop romantic feelings. What about treating them as a sister/brother? That doesn't mean negate their biological sex and treat them like your own, but also doesn't include romantic direction.
It is hard when you pray but your husband doesn't and your husband doesn't want to associate with your praying friends whether they are male or female. I regard these male friends as my Christian brothers who see me as a true sister in Christ 🙏
0:35 why is male/female even a distinction here?
Many people have good friendships with people of the opposite sex, because they are related to each other.
I don’t agree with this I continued friendships with several guys from university when i got into a relationship for a few years. Now I only have female friends. I miss my male friends and that’s all it was , they were my substitute brothers.
@@nupnorthchill bro. this is so immature and gives us men a bad look. I can say from experience that I have several close, female friends, and even after being married I remain close with them and my wife is totally cool with it.
@@nupnorth in my experience, the more we as Catholics stress about sex, the more impure thoughts occur. If we loosen up about sexual things, they'll recede into the background and won't interfere with our relationships. Peace! ✌️
I can honestly a say I never crossed the platonic boundary with Mark, Joe, Dean , Chris Guy or Tony. It is possible in Western culture circa 1998. Atm is foreign men who make everything about sexual power and domination that is very unfamiliar.
That list so funny. I feel like it’s millennial/gen z issue where guy girl friendships being just that, but one has romantic feelings for the other. Matt just doesn’t know what it’s like to be a young’un anymore
Commenting bc thursday asked me to
Great
There’s no such thing as just friends
When Harry Met Sally - ruclips.net/video/iEV_pQIf3Og/видео.html
I’m a womam and the only men friends i have thay are truly men friends are my gay friends
Solus cum sola non dicunt Ave Maria
Ladies, I'm sorry to tell you this, but most of your guy friends are not your friends: they're just lying in wait for your friendship to reach the point where they feel comfortable asking you out. Men, the same is probably true for your female friends, if any. Here's a task for you: take your opposite sex friends aside one day and tell them that you don't see anything romantic happening; see how long they stick around. A lot of people are fooling themselves because they don't want to face criticism in this modern society where men and women are the same and biology doesn't matter, and it does a lot of harm.
Disagree. My guy friends are like brothers and the idea of kissing me makes me 🤮. It also depends on how long you’ve been friends. If these are friends from childhood these are different then guys you met this year.
@@CatholicKatherine Perhaps it is different for women than men. Does the thought of kissing you (which btw I do not advocate for before marriage) make them "🤮"? You might've discounted them from being potential spouse (because you're not attracted perhaps), but that doesn't mean they've discounted you. And I don't see why they should unless you've there are impediments, including your unmistaken lack of interest. You know, according to Fr. Ripperger, the first of the "Four Stages of Courtship" is friendship, and he advocates minding emotional attachment. I think ideal courtship avoids signalling attraction. It is rational, and signals chaste interest.
Also, please know that you yourself are not safe, one day you may find you feel differently about one of your male friends. Whether because you see them in a different light, or because they change. I would avoid being alone with a friend of the opposite sex (in chaste mixed company or at least in public, that's fine and indeed necessary). And I would mind their sake as well as mine.
I disagree. I have lots of close female friends who are just simply close friends. It's enriched my social life a lot.
@@CatholicKatherine Do your male friends feel the same way about kissing you? Do you think if you told them that the idea of kissing them makes you want to throw up, they would stick around long?
I respectfully disagree. My husband has a female friend that I in no way am concerned about there becoming a sexual relationship. There are times that I question if the emotional relationship is deeper than I am comfortable with but I view that as my insecurities and inability to communicate and not their fault. He does speak with her individually and we gather together as a couple. I have no ill will for this woman but I’m just not as close to her as he is.
I recently had a conversation with my girlfriend on this subject and we both came to the conclusion it doesn't seem appropriate to be having one on one conversations with friends of the opposite sex. I think a point in time comes where it is no longer appropriate for men and women to be friends.
A very stupid question,. I am friends with a few women in work but without being cruel I find them to be plain Janes so I'm no more attracted to them than I am to the walls I'm my office, so the answer is yes OF COURSE, men and women CAN be friends. If you are attracted to them then no. OBVIOUS HEY ?
I'm one of those plain Jane's Jonathan!
You should watch what you say on the internet or change your name to an alias.
You never know who's reading your comments.
I won't be talking to you in the office anymore!!!
I am also one of those plain Jane’s, I totally thought you were into me Jonathan 😪😭 I have been trying to get you to notice me for so long. The muffins of love i baked for you and left on your desk? 😞😭
@@capecodder04 I have said nothing here I would not say openly in public, you might not be happy with the term plain Jane but I felt it was kinder than saying ugly as in physically ugly. There is no NICE way to say it .. perhaps ' less than attractive ' or some other term but everyone would still know what I meant so what's the point. Ugly or beautiful are all equal in the eyes of God, it wasn't said to belittle anyone but I wanted to make an important point, if I find someone to be a plain Jane ( perhaps another man may find the same woman attractive ) I'm not going to struggle with being attracted to her, am I ? so of course I can be her friend, but if I find her attractive then I will. That is the ONLY point I'm making
@@luke9747 😂👍
Obviously but not the same type or degree of closeness as one can have with a friend of the same sex.
Yes, but only in a work environment and only in social interactions involving your wife or girlfriend.
Yes only in a social setting, or in the wider context of a larger group. One on one interaction, other than being a sign of emotional intimacy l, leaves the door open for something more.
When a boy and a girl are friends, at least one of them likes the other. If the love is mutual, a couple is formed, so there is no more friendship. If it's the girl who likes the boy, she sleeps with him, so there is no more friendship. Therefore, if the friendship persists, it means that the boy likes the girl, but he is not loved in return.
Pheromones. Man and women are biologically wired to desire one another sexually. Even the most virtuous man has had the experience of seeing a beautiful woman, fully fertile, and becoming mesmerized. This is one of the many reasons men and women can't be 'just friends'. There's also many psychological reasons as well.
Absolutely not. There is no such thing as a "guy friend". The male will always have an underlying desire for the female......PERIOD.
This is just as sexist and ignorant as when men say that women are less intelligent or less responsible than men.
Its not always the man though. I've had several experiences where I thought I was in a friendship with a girl and then at some point she started to act weird with me. Turned out she wanted more, she was harboring boyfriend/girlfriend expectations. And this has happened me to me multiple times with women, where I had absolutely zero romantic intentions but the women went in under false pretenses
This is actually very insulting to men, especially Christian men. To say that all men only befriend women to sleep with them is outlandish
This is a massive overgeneralization. I agree this is very common, but it is definitely not always the case. Especially when it comes to childhood friendships or friendships at younger ages.
@@andreasm5770 Exactly, I have a couple female friendships that are and have always been platonic because we were friends since we were young kids. Of course prudence takes precedent in that as well- it not like I’m seeing this friend more often than my wife or sharing things like when I was single.
There is usually more sexual interest on one side than the other...
Women tend to have more all-encompassing vocations than men. It is difficult to befriend a woman without sapping her time and attention from more worthy matters (unless you’re in a position to become her vocation). Additionally, friendship between men is trying and strengthening, whereas friendship between women is overtly relaxed and comforting. Friendship between men and women takes on the characteristics of female friendship, because the man will always have to “take it easy” on the woman. This means that the woman does not receive any unique benefit from friendship with a man vs friendship with other women, while the man lacks a benefit he receives from friendship with other men. For these reasons, the benefits of male/female platonic friendships are naturally much less of a consideration than sexual attraction.
Yea sure it’s easy for men and women to just be friends… …If the other person is really unattractive.
"I finally tasted the sweetness of male friendship"
I don't think you could contextualize anything more Gay then that even if you tried.
It seems all these Uber Christian men always give off that gay vibe.