The Many Mistakes of the Cell Saga.
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2023
- There were a lot of mistakes made by the characters in the Cell Saga, but how many were there really? Who messed up the most in the Cell Saga?
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Android 17, Android 18, and more all made mistakes in the Cell Saga of Dragon Ball Z.
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In all of Dragon Ball Z, the one Saga that stands out as happening entirely due to constant mistakes made by our main cast of characters is the Cell Saga. The Buu Saga is a close second, but at least the threat of Buu was taken seriously by most of the cast immediately.
Unlike the Cell Saga, which starts with the biggest wasted opportunity in the series - shrugging off a warning from the apocalyptic future. It should be a very simple process, Trunks is from the Future - him being a Super Saiyan while also being a hybrid-Saiyan due to his different hair color proves this. Even the doubters in the group quickly believed him due to his knowledge of events like Goku’s landing time and location or even just time traveling in front of them. So, with the knowledge that Dr. Gero is building the androids, it's as simple as a wish on the Dragon Balls to stop him - and worst case scenario - Bulma knows where his lab is so they should be able to find it and destroy it.
However, that’s not what happens as almost every fighter in the group agrees they’d rather train and wait to fight the Androids than deal with them prematurely. I do think Goku has the most plausible reason to not go after Gero yet - citing him not having built the androids yet. I know he was a part of the Red Ribbon Army in the past so he has done bad things before, but then again, most of the people standing next to Goku as he says this tried to kill him in the past - so at the very least this is in character for him.
And hey this may have been a blessing in disguise since we don’t know when Gero made himself into an Android so if he was already artificial by the time Trunks arrived in the Past then they would’ve been absolutely destroyed if they tried to fight him. Trust me, characters make worse mistakes than this.
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Развлечения
Who made the worst mistake in the Cell Saga?
Krillin
He wanted romance over the earth (even though gohan would win he didnt know that)
Vegeta
Should we count Goten or ......
At least 18 barely killed anyone in this timeline.
To be fair, while Cell not just killing Gohan outright was definitely a tactical error, it makes perfect sense from a narrative perspective. The genes of Goku and Vegeta are blended into Cell's makeup, and both of them have made that exact mistake in the past.
Yeah he does have there DNA
It's poetic justice
Even still the Fact that Cell had KIOKEN in his back pocket but never used it ESPECIALLY DURING THE BEAM STRUGGLE was one of the worst mistakes in my opinion
@@ninjabros6282 Probably for the same reason Goku stopped using it. May or maybe not be but the yellow aura looks Super Saiyan-y.
@@zeldapro18 Yea I always assumed the yellow aura was Cell going super saiyan, he just doesn't have the spikey yellow hair that makes it obvious
Yamcha made two mistakes as well. He found the people Androids 19/20 killed and didn't notify the others. When he found them, instead of raising his Ki, he just shouted which was pointless as they were all scattered through an entire island causing him to almost die. In the end, he only wished Cell's victims back and ignored Android 19/20's ones.
Thank you Yamcha for mention on Earth specifically😂
Yeah Yamcha messed up
Didn't 20 immediately start draining him though? I think he was trying to raise his ki, but 20 was taking it.
Thank you, that shit pissed me off I was literally yelling at the screen because I couldn’t believe how dumb Yamaha acted in that moment.
@@yeirydiaz6334 Yamcha did it again
I am surprised you missed this one. Everyone doesn't mention it. Goku planning to not tell anyone about the androids is a huge mistake. The reason the Z fighters knew about the upcoming androids was Piccolo. Piccolo decided he needed to warn the fighters about the future androids. Piccolo pretty much saved everyone. Goku's heart condition would have started leaving him unable to fight and the others too weak to fight.
I agree, tho I think this more on Trunks as he only wanted Goku to know.
you're right, Goku's decision not to tell anyone about the androids was a mistake. It was Piccolo who played a crucial role in warning the Z fighters about the future androids, ultimately saving everyone. Goku's heart condition would have left him unable to fight, and the others would have been too weak. Piccolo's actions were instrumental in preparing the Z fighters for the upcoming threat.
@@dominiklange8382 This brings a good argument that Trunks' overreverance and over RELIANCE on Goku is also flaw and mistake. Everyone there has a vested interest in not dying. Why ONLY tell Goku? I understand not telling anyone else about his birth and so did wingman Piccolo but both the heart virus and the androids were worth telling.
It's moot in the end though because Piccolo fixed that mistake anyway.
When did Goku refuse to tell anyone about the Androids?
He most certainly tried to but the information he was trying to withhold was about Trunks identity
I don’t remember him ever saying he wouldn’t tell anyone about the androids
@@kusoyuu3077 I rewatched the scene just to be sure but Trunks at the start asks Goku to keep everything he's about to say secret; he just says to keep the circumstances of his birth especially secret. Goku actually does try to not tell them anything at all hence why Piccolo says everything they need to know instead.
The Japanese wording as far as I can tell at the start of the conversation is "Please keep everything we talk about from here on out only locked away in your heart" to which Goku agrees so the promise clearly includes all of the info about the androids
I think it’s awesome that after all the mistakes the cast made (which were all mostly consistent with their characters and acknowledged as mistakes by the narrative imo) that it was Cell making the exact same types of mistakes that did him in in the end
I swear that most of the haters of this arc are ignorant of the meaning of the word writing. And they just shove it into anything these days. The arc and characters admit that they committed these mistakes, and this is human nature. People are not perfect. I mean, this is the meaning of the arc. Goku learned from his mistake in not understanding his son and correcting him, but people currently make that an excuse for being a bad father and character. Bad and then they wonder why the series no longer gives good plots in writing. People don't differentiate between criticizing plot errors and criticizing characters
Yep, watching characters make bad decisions can be good writing, so long as those bad decisions are consistent with the characters that are making them.
Goku only cares about testing his own limits in a fair fight and doesn't realize that not every fighter around him fights for that reason. Vegeta is completely deluded that he is the strongest character and will go to any length to prove it. Cell is a mixture of Goku and Vegeta, he knows he is untouchable once perfect and feels a compulsion to test his strength against the strongest fighters he can find. Trunks will do anything to form a connection and get validation from the father he never got to have. Krillin would never kill an innocent (18) in cold blood. 18 would never abandon her only companion in a world that otherwise hates her. Bulma has been on the same adventures as all the other characters and so far come out unscathed, including the fights agains majunior and on namek, she probably feels invincible on the sidelines at this point.
@@Tvboy777 Using the same methodical analysis they use for arcs they dislike, I can say that even memorable arcs like the saiyan and namek arcs should never have happened. In the former case they could have used dragon balls to destroy the saiyan pods (no difference with androids), in the latter King Kaio could have simply contacted Namek's Lord Guru and asked him to resurrect Piccolo. Literally there would have been no need for the trip
@@Robert-le3hiWasn't it stated somewhere that because the sayains were stronger than Kami, and earth Shenron by association, couldn't fully get rid of them outright or something to that extent?
But fair enough on the Nemak side.
@@jbktpl1245 The dragon couldn't eliminate the Saiyans directly, but they could still destroy their pods
Basically, the whole saga is almost about the mistake’s everyone made in order to make it the most iconic saga in the franchise
namek >>>Icon and better written than cell
@@IIIISai facts I keep telling people that. The cell saga is okay, but people are biased because of nostalgia.
@@kesenaememere8520 exactly, u a real one, bro Im in every thread I think I became a cell saga hater, because the fanbase for cell saga is huge and makes dbz look really bad, idk where they got it from because even as a kid namek is better, it is what it is I guess, I rate saiyan saga 9, namek 10, cell 5 ( i wanna say -8), and buu is 7, see buu saga ended off dbz regardless of the bad writing it had alot of good slice of life moments, namek was super serious so if dbz ended there it would be cleaner but not as happy, cell saga was horrible so it couldn't end there but buu saga everyone grew up and everyone was happy
@@IIIISainah
This video show you how overrated dragon ball is...
The worst mistake would be between vegeta wanting cell to absirb 18 for a fight or krillin giving up earth for 🤖😺.
Nah don't even lie you would to dawg 💀
@@CalebIsHere I know I would
Shiiiii I wouldn’t have even taken the remote
If destroying that remote resulted in a .1 percent chance to get Android 18 I would have taken.
I'd make the same choice tbh
I feel like Cell letting Gohan reach SSJ2 is a much bigger mistake than Vegeta letting Cell become complete. Vegeta's mistake was not preventing the thing that Cell was already going to do. But Cell was actually helping Gohan to push him over the edge, while Gohan did not even want to become angry, and he didn't really know how to either.
In Cell's defense, he probably figured out at some point before unleashing the Cell Jrs that Gohan was on par if not stronger than Goku, but thought that Gohan's anger would just get Gohan to actually fight him instead of just dodging and stalling. At that point I think Cell knew that if Goku was no match for him, Gohan wouldn't be either, but Gohan was the closest thing he had that could at least give him a good time, but only if Gohan stopped being a pacifist pssy and actually fought him. And at that point, having a good time in a fight was all Cell cared about. Also he had a massive superiority complex, and it was ingrained into his character that anyone possibly being stronger than him was inconceivable for him.
Cell has cells of goku, vegeta and frieza. Its natural
Quit blaming Vegeta🤦♀️ . Krillin DESTROYED the remote himself and let 18 go instead of saving the world 🌍
Vegeta wanted to go to time chamber and they allowed them. He was stronger than semi-perfect Cell and was supposed to kill Cell but instead he allowed to become perfect.
He even started attacking his son when he decided to kill semi-perfect cell and created whole mess,@@PrincessDesert
@@reddragon100 yeah and Krillin could have dis-activated the android, and blown her away w/ a blast in order to save everybody, but he fucked up just like Vegeta fucked up. 🤷🏿♂️💥🔫so why’s everyone not hating on Krillin, oh bc android 18 is hot 😂😂and they want Krillin to end up w/ her at the end of the saga that’s why😏
I will defend some of these mistakes a little bit.
Piccolo didn't know how strong Gero was when he let himself get hit. He was just careful trying to surprise an enemy with unknown strength.
Vegeta already almost killed Cell with the Final Flash had the latter not dodged at the last second. Grade 3, seemingly, wasn't necessary at that point and might have made it harder to bait Cell into standing still.
I will add another mistake too for good measure:
Piccolo of all people should've realised that going into the Room of Spirit and Time alone would be much less efficient than having a strong partner. He should've asked Trunks to train with him. Piccolo, especially after fusing with Kami, would be perfect to help Trunks perfect Super Saiyan while himself profiting off of a strong opponent to train with.
that 'dodged at the last second' shit is also an overused plot device. even nappa did that.
What if they ALL spent MORE time in room TOGETHER. Its not like theres not enough space. Also you can rest longer in the room than outside of it
@@joonas394 I feel like this was covered before in one of the stories, but there is a limit of 2 people, not because it won't let more then 2 in, but because there is only enough food in the room to properly feed 2 people for the duration
@@BlazeDarks This is correct; however since Namekians can live on just water, it doesn't explain Piccolo not going in with anyone else.
@@ShadeDergon97 I imagine it's not just enough food for only 2 but also only enough water for 2 people as well, but just omitted saying water, think it was summed up as only enough supplies for 2 people for 1 years, but you could also make an argument that you could take in 4 for six months, but then again it seems a lot of training seems most effective in one on one situations
I like to think Gero vs. Piccolo was Gero's very first fight in his life, taking precautions the way a scientist does but never saw combat in his life.
The Many Mistakes of the Cell Saga.
That seems reasonable, the fact that he was an Android was then only way he could even keep up. He should've learnt martial arts Matrix style.
"never saw combat in his life"
Are we just going to forget he explained to all of us that he had his technology scan Goku and the others for a very long time? Like seriously, he even went back as far as Adult Goku vs Tien in the original Dragonball!
@@TheGamersState he refers how gero wasnt a fighter, he was a scientist. he never had to fight in a battle like goku or most of the dragon ball cast
@@TheGamersState I think a big difference is: even if you watch hours upon hours of professional baseball to the point where you create your own games and such around it, it doesn't actually make you good at baseball the moment your hands hold onto a real bat for the first time.
Dr. Gero had the idea and the potential to be a masterfully powerful fighter but he essentially got his first real taste in combat then and there. Can't blame the guy.
The worst mistake was ignoring Bulma’s suggestion on using the dragon balls to stop the androids
PLAIN AND SIMPLE!💯
Even fortune-teller baba could shown them were gero was and what he was doing.
Kami too could see anything he wanted to. They didn't use all their resources.
@@thunderlord-nsr6153 does toriyama even remember them? single purpose gag characters tend to disappear when their gags get old.
@@tsm688 She was used in the next arc to bring dead Goku back to the land of the living. And Kami was literally used in this arc so Piccolo could permanently fuse with him.
@@brandonlyon730 I don't think voring a character counts as "using" them, it's throwing them under the bus.
Finally, someone who doesn't only bash on Goku. This video was perfect.
Mr. Perfect
Literally "perfect"
@@CataloniaFC😂😂
@@CataloniaFCcell: can I have some of that "perfection"?
@@quickhallsshow576fr
To be fair Vegeta's role in DBZ basically up until his sacrifice in the Buu arc is to always make things worse, and then get his ass kicked for making things worse and prove how strong the villain is.
😂😂😂
He saved Gokuh from C19 in the fight when he got the virus while the rest were watching him dying...
Vegeta saved the others a few times on namek, saved goku from 19 and saved Gohan from being overtaken by Cell
This arc basically build on everyone’s mistakes and poor choices 💀
you just explained it perfectly
@@eiad.8 that was the main flaw
@@2_e28k8 no thats what made it horrible, only good thing about the cell arc was the progression of super saiyan and the 2 android twins, other than that the whole arc should be skipped for how bad it is, cell has no impact and Goku just chose to not revive himself
@@IIIISai"Goku chose not to revive himself" he literally couldn't be revived by earth's dragon balls because the balls only resurrects people who only died once, also goku thinks he attracks bad guys
@@supersonic-ox9ed Bro re watch the show or re read the manga, goku literally chose not to comeback, also wdym died once that rule was literally retconned before the buu arc, also gokus whole ideology of bad guys targetting him made 0 sense, it was just toriyamas brain dead explanation for why goku didn't contact his family
I am pretty sure the point of the shutdown remote wasn't to make it so Cell can't absorb them, but so that anyone could just blow them up easily.
i came to the comments to say this Krillin was supposed to disable them and then destroy them immediately
The protagonist’s imperfections allowed Cell to reach his perfection. Kind of awesome actually
and in turn, their imperfections is what caused his perfection to fail
I like that this arc was propelled by everyone’s flaws and mistakes.
Gero is striking revenge on the heroes and Cell is literally a combination of everyone: a dark reflection of the cast
I always say using an attack that doesn't require movement, like most beams, would've been a great use of SSJ Grade 3.
Or you could grapple someone, go grade 3, and then just beat the crap out of them so they can't dodge.
@@alfalldoot6715try to grapple someone flying is difficult
The switch Trunks did in Super was pretty smart, use Grade 4 to get in and conserve stamina and when you are close, switch, hit, switch back
This video show you how overrated dragon ball is...
I thought it also takes longer to gather energy, but maybe that was anime only.
For me, telling that Krillin didn't kill 18 just by love for her is a bit wrong. For me, He didn't want to kill her because she didn"t have made anything objectively evil since she as been activate. Krillin is one if not the most "human" and "moral" character. Killing Android 18 just by precaution is something he would never do. Maybe it's a mistake but like a lot of mistake made by the character in this arc, these mistake are in logic with who and how they are.
Has Krillin ever killed anyone before that moment? Murdering an innocent person, feelings or not, is a lot to ask of one person.
But still, he could jjust keep the remote until everything is guarantee to be an ok
@@rifarira9160 To be fair, if Cell had seen him with the remote he would have probably blow Krillin up with the remote to avoid any danger.
@@matti.8465 I think he only killed some Freeza force men when he arrived on Namek. But that's all I can remember.
I totally agree. Since 23 rd tournament in Dragon Ball we got motion of no killing. Piccolo, Vegeta, Goku even spared Freeza. Krillin murdering 18 would be a destruction of previous build up.
It's funny when you point out the mistakes with the androids considering the reason we only got 17 and 18 and eventually Cell was because Toriyama's editor kept disagreeing with his choice of villains for the arc.
Oooooh, riiiight. I wonder how many of these "mistakes" are just to pigeonhole in new characters out of nowhere.
You know they commited a lot of bad decisions when counting them becomes a recap of the arc.
Thing about stopping Gero prematurely: they literally only had Trunk's word to go off of. As later shown by Yamcha on the day of the event, they were a little skeptical of it actually occurring. They took it seriously enough to train and wait for them to show, but maybe not enough to go and murder a supposed villain in waiting.
I still the sensible thing would be to wish to know where Gero is, track him down, see what he's doing and go from there. He's in the middle of making the androids? Blow up his base. He's not doing anything wrong yet? just keep an eye on him for a bit.
@@nousername191they were unable to track him down you know
I think they had enough reason to trust Trunks, but beyond that, going to find Gero would confirm everything as well. Though you're right that its not their style to preemptively kill someone.
@@Goku_is_my_idol thats why he said use the dragonball mate
@@rifarira9160 ah. I read his statement fast so I accidentally ignored the wish part. My bad.
With the Final Flash there is something to consider with Vegeta not using Grade 3. Vegeta's whole tactic was to bait Cell into taking the Final Flash head on. So since Cell later said to Trunks that Grade 3 supposedly matches him in raw strength (at least in the anime), if Vegeta amped up that level and started charging the attack, would Cell had really stood there and took it then?
Yeah .....
In the manga is way different cell admited trunks FAR surpassed him in power
So yeah cell sees someone stronger and he would Dodge hell he tried in canon at the last second thats why only his arm was missing vegeta could have still used it last second tho
Very true - It's also important to remember Krillin, Cell and Trunks all note just how risky the Final Flash attack is, and how Vegeta barely managed to direct the attack off of the Earth's surface. So seeing how SSJ Grade 3 is remembered for how bulky and uncontrollable it was (Trunks basically turns into Broly) I think Vegeta gets off the hook for this (for once)
@@danielgonzalez-vm5lj Cell was lying to Trunks. Cell used half power on Goku and full power on SSJ2 Gohan. He maxed out on Gohan like Trunks did on him and couldn't hit Gohan. So Cell was bullshitting Trunks. Plus the Android Saga is filled with contradictions after all🤓
@@great159 its unknown How much he used there against goku all we know is thats less than what ssj gohan had in power but gohan was not willing to kill cell since for him the fight was pointless
The trunks statement could be true since on the manga he NEVER even grazed cell every single attack missed easily
And some guides even say ssj grade 3 has a x10 multiplier over ssj while ssj3 has x8 now im not saying trunks was ssj3 goku level hell no his base is far too weak to even come close but the form is straight up always called to have insanely high power but shit stamina and speed so it would make sense
@@great159 If Cell was using half power on Goku, Cell's full power would have been much more of a match for SSJ2 Gohan than it was. Cell had to get a massive zenkai boost that also unlocked his SSJ2 form to match him.
Goku not telling Gohan the plan is for Gohan to discover his power on his own.
He knew when Gohan was pushed to his limits, he would eventually turn into a SSJ2. On the other hand, telling Gohan about the transformation would cause him to doubt himself. It wasn't ideal since after the training, Goku wanted to spend some time with Gohan peacefully.
Therefore, he left early because 3 months of gruelsome training wasn't worth doing anymore. Goku wanted to spend time with Gohan wholeheartedly and keeping SSJ was a side beneficial reason. It's kinda lovely.
Goku always wanted someone to take over him as a protector of the Earth and thought Gohan or even Goten would be perfect for it. However, he didn't consider if they wanted to do or not. When Gohan was beaten, Goku thought he would turn SSJ2 anytime but he didn't because of his own doubts.
One of the greatest lies ever spread about Dragon ball was that Vegeta was a good dad.
Everybody fumbled in some way during the Cell Saga except Tien, Trunks & Piccolo
Piccolo could have defeated Cell but got tricked by a Solar Flare of all things.
Also trunks
Piccolo fighting 17 gave away the location of the androids
@@jonmcknleggTo be fair he couldnt help it and he tried to not sell unlike vegeta and krillin
@@Sonicmidtrunks used super saiyan grade 3
The worst mistake was not doing what TFS Bulma said to do: Summon Shenron to tell them where the guy who made the Androids are, find him, then murder that son of a b*tch in cold blood!
💀
EXACTLY!👍
10:43 Tbf with him, Cell wasn't expecting Gohan to constest his Solar Kamehameha since he has almost no energy left. Also, even Gohan wasn't expecting being able to stop Cell. He just won because he was able to unleash his full power after Cell was distracted by the Z fighters.
True but vedita did not spect perfect cell to be so strong and that was a mistege so fair is fair.
The only dragon ball fan that can read:
In all seriousness, this video goes in depth how many mistakes by the Z-Fighters this saga had from nearly all parties involved. For the mess-up MVP I have to give it to Future Bulma for not telling Future Trunks how stubborn the damn Z-Fighters are and best described as blood knights. As best described by TFS Dende describing this saga in a nutshell: "Because you are all a Cavalcade of f***-ups."
P.S. I was dying of laughter at 5:32
The Vegeta thing is harsh but deserved. The guy gets constantly praised for doing the bare minimum as a father...and even then it took him like a decade to get there.
I think it's because he's much better in super. Also his Buu saga redemption.
@@BouncingZeus He's definitely better than he used to be, but he isn't doing anything Goku wasn't doing from the start (besides showing up at his second kid's birth but that wasn't his fault)
Thank you for explaining this. People really don’t understand how the Cell Saga would have been handled a lot differently if those dumb decisions and mistakes weren’t made.
You seriously wanna argue that everyone took Buu seriously when he revived? Reviving him was already a mistake by Goku and Vegeta not giving a fuck about their energy being stolen. Then Goku being irresponsible and letting Goten and Trunks handle Buu when he could have done it himself in SSJ3 with the excuse of letting them get ready for future threats, then Gotenks being obviously a child doesn't finish the job, then Gohan does the same (learnt literally nothing from his fight with Cell), then Vegetto does the same, then Goku doesn't go all out against Kid Buu from the start, AGAIN.
To be fair to Krillin, immobilizing someone then executing them is pretty dark. Cant blame him for getting cold feet. That being said, idk if he'd struggle with the choice as much if it was 17 instead lol
Everything for cybersex😂
lets not forget 16, which i highly doubt he'd let a single blast get through him despite his damages and we're talking about a titan as strong as imperfect cell, someone far above krillins league at this point, yeah he wouldn't get dented.
Bro wanted to get laid. He had no issues trying to kill Vegeta when he was down.
There's a timeline where Yamcha became the hero he was meant to be and destroyed the Gero lab himself
And he didn’t cheat on Bulma. Securing the ultimate W bingo
And then he woke up
This should be a what if scenario in Budokai Tenkaichi 4
and then got killed by the saiyans (they wanted to fight)
Yo I love your channel Morepatterz! Huge fan!
this is a fantastic video, and I really hope you consider doing a similar one for the Buu saga
The WORST Saga👎🏽💯
love you being in the video like that, it felt very fitting!
you just can't miss this man's videos
NPC😊
Krillin giving up Earth for some android pus is insane
Lol
💀
gigachad shitr no lie
Tbf he did not know Vegeta was selling at the same time by letting Cell absorb 18
Hot damn bro this editing is TOP NOTCH… I’d pay a fortune for this level of editing
Not to mention Vegeta beat his own son to let cell get stronger lol
I don't think Goku not telling his plan to Gohan was a mistake, Gohan got it after the first punch from cell. He clearly knows about his potential.
Yeah. He didn't want Gohan to have that pressure on him leading up to the fight.
@@shmeebs387Wouldn't that just give him worse pressure being told at the last second?
Was he expecting the whole week relaxing with his dad, that his dad was gonna beat Cell, and just then accepted a total change of plan/expectations? Man, Gohan adapted quick to that sudden change.
@@epicfights7898 why was gohan training in the first place?
Gohan knew the entire time Goku wanted him to fight Cell. Goku only fought Cell because 1) He enjoys fights 2) It was expected of him, and 3) He wanted to show Gohan how Cell fought. Goku told Gohan right away in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the training was for him. @@epicfights7898
Such a well made video! Refreshing!
I would really appreciate you making a video of how the namekian and earth dragon balls work, mostly on the resurrection factor, as well as explaining the power of the super dragon Balls.
A lot of people get UPSET over the mistakes, like it's bad writing, but I actually like them -- they are all mistakes born perfectly from the various characters' personalities and is actually a testament to the good writing of them. Vegeta is the perfect example.
And if you DID take away these mistakes, all you're left with are Mary Sue's/Gary Stu's.
@@trentbell8276yes. Vegeta messing up in cell saga has to be one of the reasons for him to change in super
Vegeta, Yes. But Goku - No.
It's not like Piccolo situation when if he died, Kami would die too. And not Vegeta situation who was already beaten badly. Cell was right here as undefeated evil, threatening to destroy the Earth, that place which Goku so sincerely protected before... And now you just give it a Senzu bean? Like he's a training doll? That's Bullshitting.
@@alexzero3736 just say you dont know why goku give cell the senszu bean, also if vegeta didnt let cell reach his perfect from we get to point where goku give him a senzu so its all on vegeta bullshit
i don't mind the mistakes through some of them are Annoying
I think that if Goku had told Gohan exactly what he expected from him, it wouldn't have worked. Gohan would simply ask for more training in the Room of Spirit and Time, waste his remaining allotted time of that room, get no significant results, and leave his chance for quick training for future dangers. Goku understood this and decided to let his son realize the importance of a peaceful life so that he could then put everything on the line and put this burden of responsibility on his son to awake his potential, “all or nothing.” And not to say that Goku’s decision is baseless, but it is extremely immoral and risky. But this is Goku from Z, he has only one driving motive - to humiliate and use dwarfs
There's still a month...
@@alexzero3736 He never said anything about that part
You people don't seem to understand. Goku KNEW he didn't stand a chance against cell. He witnessed gohans potential for those few seconds and realised how his own power was a joke compared to Gohans 'hidden' power.
The mistake is that he thought Gohan would unleash it just by getting beaten up and cornered by cell. He didn't realise that Gohans power lies in protecting others, not himself. In gokus defence, he would never have known. He has rarely ever seen Gohans rage moments.
@@HSSJ2people forget before gt or super goku need it to be dead to surpass his son and literally ki God is super to an lock new path because his potential is nothing compared to gohan
I was just watching your backlog and saw the "What if Goku Learned Ikari in the Saiyan Saga" and I thought doing a What if of Gohan learning it would be super cool. As he already has insane potential and rage based power, it could be awesome.
Another mistake is that in the ten days before the cell games cell couldve trained the entire time. He wouldve been massively stronger than everyone considering he also has frieza cells.
Thats not a mistake at all, he knew he was perfect and knew he needed no training as he achieved the form he was created for
@@joshuameraz2826 Plus ten days wouldn't have gained Cell much if any strength anyway.
One of the driving forces behind most of these bad decisions, as far as I can tell, is the classic anime trope of "warriors only defeat other warriors when the opponent is at their absolute best, so there can be no question of who the superior warrior is." It's why the Z-Fighters trained rather than taking the threat out preemptively, it's why Vegeta let Cell go Perfect, it's why Goku gave Cell a Senzu Bean, it's why Cell doesn't just frag the Earth _both_ times....it's why shonen anime characters are _such damned _*_idiots._*
i was able to better understand dbz after getting into MMA and realizing its basically the same thing, they view the fights in DBZ like mma matches, you want to see who wins the match straight up to prove whos better, not have one guy slash the other guys tires so he never makes it into the ring and call that a win -- both fighters want it to be a real fight so they can see how far their own efforts have taken them
You're not completely wrong, but you're missing the point. They didn't do what they did to follow the trope. It compliments their individual character traits. Vegetas pride was at an all time high after his training. He wanted to prove to everyone and himself what he could do. Since semi perfect cell was weak, his ego wanted him to be stronger so that he could show off some more.
Goku didn't give cell a senzu bean because he wanted Gohan to be the superior fighter out of the two at their best. He did it because he believed in Gohan and knew how powerful his hidden potential was. I believe he did it so that cell would be at his best and able to beat up Gohan easily. Goku thought that cell beating him up and cornering him would be enough for Gohan to release everything. He didn't realise Gohans power lies in protecting his loved ones. I also do believe that he did it to make it a 'fair' fight, being a bit too egotistical about Gohans hidden power, which is why I don't say you're completely wrong.
Goku’s depth
Goku values his strength because of the events of his life. After losing his parental figure to a “monster”, his helpessness created a will to grow more powerful to defend himself and those around him. He trains to push himself to new heights and defeats the greatest evil in the world, Piccolo, and is then effortlessly defeated by his brother Raditz, When he asks Krillin to spare Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga, he does not out of morality, but out of curiosity of how far he can push himself. He calls himself selfish for this, but makes the choice anyways. This is the first step of Goku’s change as a person, Goku is pure of heart by the standards of the Kinto’un and yet he is innately flawed. His pure mindset is a both a blessing and a curse. He sees the best in people, he wants to be the best he can be, and he assumes that those around him should share his values. Goku puts his son into a situation that he didn’t realize Gohan wasn’t prepared for, and even gives Cell a senzu because hes so confident. Depsite his flaws, Goku is extremly self aware. Towards the end of the Cell Games, he sacrifices himself and apologies to Gohan for not making the best choices. He even chooses to say dead because he realizes that his existence has drawn seveal enemies to Earth, and during the Buu saga, he tries to give the mantle of Earth’s defender to Goten and Trunks that he cant fight all of the battles anymore, even if deep down he wants to. Goku literally abstained from fighting, the one thing he has dedicated his life to his son.
Kid Goku is a child all alone in the woods away from society and his lack of understanding of modern technology like cars which he describes as “monsters” is a result of his lack of indoctrination, speaking of indoctrination Kid Goku is a pretty great embodiment of curiosity, and freedom his curiosity is a result of his lack of teachings of subjects in modern society (lack of indoetrination), The flying nimbus is an magic yellow that Goku uses to transport those who have a pure heart are able to ride on the flying nimbus , clouds symbolize clear thinking and emotional purity these fit Goku well seeing how he is pure of heart and has strong set belifes on what is wrong or right, the nimbus also correlates to he freedom in the many way Goku is free is a set purpose or place
Identity crisis
Identity crisis is the questioning in ones own idenity, once Goku sees Raditz and Raditz unfolds the story to him and his friends about the saiyans their heritage and occupation and just on general how bad of people they are, Goku is quick to say that he isn’t a saiyan and that he is Son Goku from earth. This neglectance of identity isn’t surprising seeing how Goku and the sayians are opposites and have drastically different morals,
Goku’s self acceptance
Goku’s self acceptance coming from the realization that his saiyan heritage is something that can be used to good in the world to bring peace one might say the saiyan were ruthless and violent and ransacked peoples worlds to sell them when he accepts that’s he is indeed a sayian and tells Frieza he’s the super saiyan Son Goku, echoed through his speech “I am the light in the darkness” Goku here can be referring to himself the good out of the bad. The one good saiyan out of the many evil saiyans, Affect on world
Goku’s affect on his world is the affect on his friends who eventually became his enemies and the whole physical world, Goku in the cell saga knew that if he kept residing on earth his friends said everyone else would be in danger so it was convenient he could use transporting cell to the king kai’s place and also just leave earth for the sake of peace
In moral philosophy, deontological ethics or deontology is the normative ethical theory that morality of an action should be based on whether that action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than based in the consequences of the action, Goku has always kept this philosophy with him since a kid and this connects with his sacrifice great. Goku always had his morals over the consequences we can see this a lot with his interactions with vegetea ginyu and frieza, We saw many instances when Goku has put his morals above the consequences. For example, with his battle with Vegeta he could’ve killed Vegeta and bring peace. But he chose to let him alive because of his moral code and to fight him again. With Frieza he had the chance to kill him and yet he let him live becuase again he let his morals take over him and didn’t see the consequences
Battle stance
In saiyan saga goku and vegeta stance and position are contrast of each other. While Goku sgands below Vegeta showing that he is the low class warrior also shows his view on strength. Goku was always taught that there was always someone stronger than him while Vegeta was taught he was destined to be the strongest and Vegeta looking down shows that he believes that he is the strongest and his strength is complete. While Goku looking up shows how he believes that his strength us limitless and that there are others stronger than him. Both of their stance show how they were trained, Goku stance presents the turtle hermit school, they move low and find a weakness and strategies, Vegeta represent the elite saiyan training and how the fight full offensive seeing how both hands show are prepared to strike in showing his nature as a saiyan
Spirit bomb vs great ape
Goku and Vegeta main attacks contrast each other in the saiyan saga. The spirit bomb is said to take energy from your enviorment and goku being a saiyan yet denies his nature and stays with his nurture or his enviorment and it is also said that the spirit bomb is stronger when it absorbs the sun. Vegeta on the other hand uses his saiyan nature as his trump card which is great ape form and it is to be said to be powered up by the moon showing how goku symbolises the sun (being clear and self) while vegeta symbolize the moon (being a shadow and blocks the light) these two attacks symbolise their nature vs nature
Both Goku and Vegeta were confusion on who they were. Goku was in conflict with his saiyan nature and we can see him in conflict with his own morals and identity where he spares nappa out of the goodness of his hear (nurture) while he spares Vegeta because he wants to fight him again (nature). We can see more of this in his fight with Frieza and how he toys with him, says he’s going to kill him, and is drowning in anger (nature) he also speares him, gives him ki, lets him leave (nurture). Vegeta is going throught the same thing but is apposite as well. Vegeta is in conflict with his humanity and his saiyan nature. He can’t see to understand who he truly is which leads him to Majin Vegeta and Vegeta putting up a facade while deep down he isn’t him true self. He even goes to greater lengths and abandon his own mortality to gain strength. What’s great is that they were facing the person who had the biggest impact on them in their entire lives. Goku to frieza and vegeta to goku. Another is how it contast their nature vs nurture dynamic where vegeta was in conflict with his nurture while goku was in conflict with his nature
Nationalism vs patriroism
Vegeta and Goku ideology both contrast each other as well. Vegeta ideology being nationalism and Goku being patriotism shows how they both took pride and identified with their race. This difference is how they toke in reactions when they witness the flows of the saiyan race tries to deny it and live in this false ideology that they are the perfect warrior which would cause him to go majin vegeta (trying to return the status of the saiyan race which vegeta believes are the perfect warrior) What I love about this part of the dynamic is how it showed the difference of Goku and Vegeta in terms of being free. Goku believing that humanity can move forward hows how free goku is while vegeta can get over the past and is blind by it
Sacrifice
Goku and Vegeta sacrifice parallel each other perfectly. Both Goku and Vegeta desire caused more harm to the people they vared about that caused more good to themselves. We can see this with Vegeta and Buu and how Vegeta’s tubborness caused buu to be revived. For Goku was his actions with the red ribbon army and his desire to fight which caused more harm than good. Both Goku and Vegeta said similar thing when they were about to sacrifice themselves. We can’t beat him by fighting. I’ve been thinking and I can’t come up with any other way to leave the earth” Both of these showed that they were looking past fighting and showing that these sacrifice mean something other than any fighting tenchqiues. They even saw a reflection of themselves when fighting Buu and Cell. What’s ironic about these two sacrifices is that both enemies back which showed how it was never themselves to being with and that it was someone one. They both contraduct themselves, Goku ppannrd in to stay away from earth and leave it to the next generation but then chooses to come back and help Gohan. Vegeta when coming back after sacrifing himself fights the same way and contradicts himself again. Written by Anco
I always found that funny when looking back at the Raditz fight. In that neither Goku or Piccolo had issues fighting 2 on 1 and take advantage of a weakened opponent twice.
raditz stole gokus son so i dont think they viewed it as a proper fight from the start@@brandonlyon730
I always saw the senzu bean that Goku threw to cell as disrespect to him and as a warning that Gohan is so strong that he would need a senzu bean to fight him. It just made a bit more sense in that awful mistake.
A theory i personally believe is that goku did it so that cell would be cocky and try to see how strong gohan can be (Vegeta genes be like) cuz cell would most likely just decide to finish gohan up fast if he realized he was low on energy
10:53 if they had gotten Trunks' dna, they possibly would've given Cell a sense of urgency- to counteract Cell's 'Saiyan' pride. 💁🏿♂️
Despite all this... the Android Saga is still my FAVORITE saga in all of Dragon Ball purely because it was the moment where my favorite character (Gohan) got THE MOST development and was a culmination of his character arc.
That video made me think and made me realise why the Cell Saga was so great. It wasn't great in spite of these mistakes, but BECAUSE of them. It showed just how human all the Z-fighters truly are. The good and the bad of them, their highs and their lows. Even Cell, who is, in the end, the distilled form of their most powerful, undergoes the same treatment. Because they're not perfect, they're more easily understandable, and thus easier to root for or hate.
Exactly. The mistakes arent bad writing but an intentional choice. Character flaws bearing fruit.
@@ArcAngelus6if only the buu Saga did it like this Saga
@@StevenJones851 Yeah. Totallynotmark highlighted well how that arc goes absolutely bonkers.
@@ArcAngelus6 yeah its a mess of a Arc and the downfall of Dragon Ball in my opinion
yeah piccolo gohan and goku are very human
It's always good when Carthu Dojo upload.
The reason they made the remote to unactivate the androids isn't because it means Cell won't be able to absorb them. It was so the Z fighters could kill them.
It still is my favourite saga of the entire Dragon Ball franchise. The fights were so good!
Another thing is that we as the audience have the benefit of hindsight for a lot of these mistakes. It's like mistakes in our own lives, sure when we look back it can seem obvious what we should have done differently, but when you're just going through life it's a lot easier to be distracted by other responsibilities and ultimately not make the best decisions.
Plus, if characters never made mistakes and just did everything perfectly there wouldn't be much of a story to begin with.
Yeah, that's why I don't mark things like "Piccolo should have killed Cell when he was at his weakest" as a mistake but Vegeta actively aiding Cell to get to his final form as a mistake.
There were moments where, even just considering what the characters knew in the moment, dumb decisions were made when the obvious choice was staring them down.
4:54 android 16 was incomplete.
His only motive is to kill Goku in the beginning, so Cell is less than nothing to him; So he scans the power levels of cardinals and Finches instead.
He only went against Cell when 17 was in danger... and he detected 17.8 % Son Goku DNA xD
Sixteen did nuffin wrong.
Hey I love your content (especially the what if’s) have you considered doing the same premise but with other anime’s like Tokyo Ghoul or Attack on Titan?
I think it's good that there are so many mistakes since it makes the characters more real. And the other characters clearly call out mistakes when they are made such with krillin, vegeta and goku, all of them were called out for their mistakes.
I remember Krillin's remote shutting down 18 but also that he'd have to blast her after (which added to his guilt) because with 16 damaged she'd be helpless to absorption. so I think being in suspension wouldn't make a difference either. oh and the piccolo faking injury thing, I also remember after getting up he said the android got a shot but vegeta used some sort of paralysis on him to make the save himself.
Can’t wait for this to drop carthu even though I’m like a week new 😂
YOO THE MAN HIMSELF LIKE 😮😮😮🎉🎉🎉
4:05 I blame Piccolo for not at least trying to save the guy but just watch him get sucked
1:14 to be fair, its also in character for Vegeta, because of his pride and all.
Cell saga is my favorite saga, but i will admit it has a lot of mistakes
Dbz is very flawed, ngl
Namek Saga is the best saga by far👍
ngl i always get pissed cause trunks for sure could’ve killed semi perfect cell and then just fought vegeta to satisfy his pride after
In the manga there's very little time for him to actually do anything
Video could be summed up saying: this is all Vegeta’s fault
That remix of Unmei no hi towards the end was awesome.
As for Grade 3, I believe it also consumed a lot of energy aside from the speed reduction, so maybe using Grade 3 to power up an energy beam would be far too risky, because it either works and kills the enemy, or you're completely out of energy after the beam and become easy prey for the enemy who survived. However, I do agree that Trunks should have used it when Cell was about to become perfect. I mean, as far as Trunks knew, if that happened, everyone would get killed right after, so what better time to use all your cards?
Super Saiyan Grade 3 is nonsensical anyway. Up until that point *and afterward for that matter* the stronger you were the faster you were. Things like height and bulk only really mattered in Dragonball if the power level of the opponent and thus speed was close to your own. SSJ Grade 3 made Trunks stronger than Cell, therefore he should've been faster than Cell too. The form basically existed to give Trunks a loss and show off Perfect Cell, not out of consistency.
Carthu for your 1 million subscribers celebration why not make carthu animated go super Saiyan
I think his avatar is meant to be human
This video was awesome! However, you made one tiny mistake. The shutdown controller wasnt enough to stop Cell from destroying the androids. The plan is for Krillin to destroy the unconscious androids while they're defenseless. Therefore, Cell could absorb the hibernating androids if he found them.
I like how were still talking about this part of the show decades later.
I’d defend Piccolo not rushing Gero. Since Gero didn’t have any Ki to sense Piccolo was being cautious, getting a feel for the situation, and making an opening for himself.
Carthu's videos never seems disappoints.
npc
I don't know if its in the manga, but there's a bit in the anime where, while in the midst of trying to fend off Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell, Trunks has a chance to fly right up to 18, and instead of just blasting her on the spot, he just tells her to run. I know that several characters make a point of knowing that these Androids are different and less evil than the Future timeline, but it still came across as really odd that Trunks of all people wouldn't take the chance to ice 18 in that moment. If he had, Cell would've been shit out of luck, and 17 and 18 would likely have been brougut back with a wish anyways thanks to Krillin. Probably an anime only thing though.
The title, “Captain Hindsight” comes to mind… lol
Not sure it can be considered a mistake, but given his opinions on Androids, especially 17 & 18, wouldn’t it have made more sense for Trunks to just kill 18 before Cell could absorb her?
Very good point.
I mean if krillin thought about killing her after shutting her down, and he liked her well just think about trunks and his hellish future.
Maybe trunks had realized that in this time line 17 and 18 were decent people, but that doesn't explain krillins conflict plus we know right after the battle that he doesn't want to help 16 and still hates them.
So why should he not just blow her up when he had the chance.
We know that it's not an honorable way to defeat someone, but trunks is the one always trying to make more rational decisions, like in the cell games with goku
@@jasonelmore9527trunks wouldn't have thought they were good, tbf they had already killed loads of innocent humans. There's no reason why trunks didn't just kill 18 tbh
@fweshy274 they killed everyone in the future they came across, but in the main timeline, they only killed Dr. Gero and some of the bikers that were attacking the van they stole, but part of that was filler.
They were going after goku because 16 was still determined to kill him and 17 and 18 needed something to do, but they didn't start the fight with vegeta and the others, they left them alive and 17 even admired vegeta fighting alone.
He only stepped in when trunks and the rest joined in to help.
Compare that to the future where they both ganged up on the z fighters and even killed regular people for no other reason than for fun.
You're right, trunks didn't think that, not at the time at least.
He mentioned to the future versions of them that the present ones weren't as bad but he wouldn't have thought that at the time since he still refused to help 16.
You can't blame him for that, but you can blame him for not just killing 18 right there.
It might be a stretch to just kill her out of the blue with no warning but we know trunks usually doesn't mess around, he's not like the other fighters who keep giving their enemies a chance to get stronger
You'll have to blame the anime for that. In the manga, Trunks didn't have the opening to do that.
@@nousername191 Makes sense. ‘Cause I keep thinking of that moment in DBZA where Trunks yells at 18 “Blow yourself up or leave! I don’t care which!”. And while it would obviously disrupt the rest of the arc, it really feels weird that he wouldn’t take the first opportunity to kill her, especially after his furious reaction to Krillin destroying the detonator.
If Krillin did not pull 18, he would have the been the most hated character on DBZ
💀
Malsworld agrees too.
10:35 “careful cell your vegeta’s showing”
Also, 18 and 16 could have just attacked Cell as he tried to absorb 17.
Another mistake comes from the Trunks that went back in time to celebrate defeating the androids in his time allowing Cell to get his time machine and become perfect by absorbing 17 and 18 in the main timeline.
To be fair he didn’t know about cell and as we saw was easily defeated so the only thing he could do was stay alive just long enough to blow up the Time Machine and accept that his timeline was doom and at least let another timeline not fall to the same fate which would make a interesting story
I feel if Gohan knew Goku's plan it may have not happened at all. He got his power ups when backed into a corner. Being put in a different mindset that you're going to defeat Cell could have gotten him killed. He got the chance when he told Cell that he didn't want to kill him. Frieza and Vegeta's cells came into play and wanted to get that power out of him to beat him.
2:30 You sound a lot like Goku's voice actor from The _Abridged_ series right here. 😄
Tnx for the video!
One tip: The background music is super (imho: too) present in this video.
Rip the legend ❤
(6:08)
Look at Cell at the left side. I don’t know why, but to me, it’s kind of cursed.
Bro got the Jynx treatment and become Smooth Criminal Cell
Halfway thru his transformation 😮 thanks I hate it
Actually, the bigger mistake than Vegeta trying to avenge Trunks was Gohan shielding him. They had the Namekian dragon balls, which can revive even those that were revived before, there was really no reason to get in the way.
I think namek might still be a bit sore about vegeta
Pointing out sells hubris and not just killing an injured Gohan and choosing a beam battle that Vegeta did have an effect on, actually makes the ark a little bit better in my eyes
Krillin had the chance to be a hero for once and threw it away even if he did end up with 18 would it change really that much if krillin didn't?
The andoidussy does crazy things to a man's mind...
I mean look at the tournament of power
it wasnt a mistake, it was morality -- he realized the androids arent evil in this timeline and actually decent people and he didnt want to be a cold blooded murderer. it was the right choice.
@@mAcChaosCh so he risked earth just for the andriods who have tried to kill his best friend
@@jfcaklehidd yes but even so they could even replace with yamach at this point and 17 or could have found broly with whis going into his staff to find powerful warriors
5:48 that's just called "saiyan pride" my guy
And look at where it got him
Love the video👏
"Welcome to the Island of Bad Decisions"!
I laughed so hard I scared my sister🤣💀
Something that kinda bugs me, why didn’t Trunks blow up 18 after he kicked Semi-Perfect Cell away from 18 on the island?
He’s clearly strong enough to do so, and killing 18 would stop Cell from reaching perfection
In the manga, he never got the chance to hurt semi perfect cell because Vegeta got in the way
The present androids are stronger than the future ones, as Trunks himself mentions at one point, so if he tried to attack 18 at that point, it may have lessened his chances against Semi Perfect Cell because of the ki wasting.
@@alfalldoot6715yes but trunks is stronger than the androids at that point.
@jamiealisson8298 Well, yes, but perhaps not strong enough to straight up one shot them like he could to the future droids and that would have been too big a risk.
@@alfalldoot6715
Trunks was as strong as Vegeta at that point and Vegeta literally just got finished beating the hell out of Semi-Perfect Cell like it was child’s play.
Why didn't they gathered all the seven Dragonballs & summon Shenlong to wish Goku's heart virus away during the three year time skip? 🤔
interesting
I mean, Trunks gave them the cure. Once symptoms of the virus showed, he just needed to take the medicine to be rid of it. (Goku was only out for a couple days, so there really wasn't any urgency to have it removed immediately when it was supposed to show far before the androids would). It's understandable that they didn't do that considering they had the cure already. Plus, the virus didn't actually show until after the time skip so it's likely asking Shenron wouldn't do much.
I'd say everything involving the Virus in the main timeline was out of their hands. It got all screwed up because of time travel messing with the timeline, either through cell's existence since Trunks showed, or Trunks himself showing up and altering history through him defeating Frieza and King Cold when he didn't need to. The circumstances around how specifically time travel alters history is kind of vague from what I know of in the manga.
Gohan: VEGETA NO
Vegeta: VEGETA YES
Cell: Vegeta no *procceds to one shot him"
Saiyan pride has been the biggest pitfall for Goku and Vegeta throughout the series; Beerus and Whis even point this out in Resurrection F
I don’t think Grade 3 would’ve made the Final Flash stronger, the attack is supposed to be all of the power Vegeta had left thrown out at once, Grade 3 wouldn’t have amped it because it’s Vegeta’s max output regardless of his form. All theoretical though
6:46 i always ask myself that question. people say the form is bad but wouldn't it been good for charging ki attacks because they become much stronger?
Who said that ki blasts would be stronger? Ki blast depend on power level, form and focus... That form increases physical strength but decreases speed, which basically means that PL is still approximately the same. Higher power level means he is faster, right?
@@alexzero3736 was it stated somewhere that it only increases physical power? if so then what you said makes sense
They explained why Goku and Gohan came out of the hyperbolic time chamber early. When working out one needs time to rest and recuperate to offset all the training. The chamber was too intense and didn't give them the rest they needed to be able to get everything out of it. But Dragonball super pretty much threw that weakness right out the window tho haha
Goku: Not taking the medicine with him on the day of the androids
Vegeta: Letting cell get into his final form
Gohan: Not killing cell sooner
Krillin: destroying the remote
Piccolo: pretending against cell when he lost his arm instead of waxing him right there
Trunks: Not providing some typa photo to the crew
The only one who didn’t f up is tien