And i mean, while law-giver does have lines that make her sound just, if you listened to conversations while she was still jarl of rifted you would hear her planning to abandon the city if it where to ever fall, and never leaving the keep for fear of imaginary assasins
@@gamemaster1608 well... Riften was literally only Capital City to have damn crime syndicate in damn sewers, despite they weren't even hiding. And there is no quest to end them so Jarl of Riften is bs.
Pretty much she held all of Riften in her pockets via her connections and such, she even held the Guards in her pocket, the Jarl didn't dared to do anything against her.
@@--Nyx- Ulfric is an unknowing patsy to the Thalmor agenda, so it's no surprise. Even when you side with Ulfric, Tullius's last words are calling you all stupid because you played right into the Thalmor's hands. The man is a true G.
@@DarkAdonisVyers They only have one conversation in the timeline in which Tullius wins, and that's Tullius telling him to surrender. There's no point in telling him about the Thalmor's plans because they're now moot and Ulfric will die regardless.
@@JB-xl2jc Also, during the talks at High Hrothgar. Still words like that when you're losing is meaningless. It's like in Witch and the Hundred Knight when Malia reveals that she's Metallia's mother, after Malia is defeating. Pretty shitty way to beg for mercy there. Tullius comes across in the same way.
Why is there no option to convince a jarl of a hold to switch sides if I'm thane? I did so much for his/her people and their hold. I wish there was a feature in which if I had a good enough speech level and was thane I could ask them to switch sides in the Civil war. Or advise general Tullius which one should be jarl of a hold if I was Legate.
I wish the character of yours would do something about the Thalmar. Cause again he is Dragonborn so he can call a dragon army when ever he wants not to mention he has that one daedric prince entire library at his disposal
@@danteredgrave120 Yeah, I wish you could reveal the Thalmor dossiers to the public and start the second great war instead of having to fight in the civil war. When you take the fight to the Thalmor, the stromcloaks and many imperial 'volunteers' could come and lend their aid. That way, you push the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Once that's over, they could have a treaty in which Skyrim is free but they must be an ally when the second great war comes along and must allow the passage of imperial troops to and from the land.
It's interesting that even General Tullius respected the cause that the Stormcloaks rallied behind. Regardless of which side I choose for whatever playthrough I'm doing, Tullius will always be a great man in my eyes.
@@muslimcrusader5987 Have you ever chosen the Imperials in a playthrough, just to find out what what they stand for? Tullius clearly knows that the Thalmor are a greater threat then the rebels ever were. He simply has no choice but to continue to fight other men instead of mer.
@@jeremyforbes2636 but one of his lines is litteraly "It's not a cause its a rebellion" Rikke (or however you spell it) is the one who has sympathy for the stormcloaks and has some level of respect for ulfric and while she's willing to do what must be done she's still sorrowful that it turned up this way
@@muslimcrusader5987 The Thalmor is much more powerful than the Empire if the Stormcloaks fragment it further. However, it is true that the Thalmor want the war to continue on to weaken both to the point where the humans can be simply wiped out. I'll admit that there isn't really a right side or view for this conflict, as both views are very solid.
Oengul War-Anvil, claiming he's better than Eorlund yet the Stormcloaks were armed mostly with iron weaponry and derivation of hold guard's armor. Even Ulfric's second-in-command was using lowly iron battleaxe.
Maven is a tyrannical ruler just like Dikstra in witcher fuck them both to be honest. Nords did own the land as a Japanese man myself I'd be mad if a foreign empire did set the rules for me. For everyone supporting the empire this was like the Romans enslaved Germania and forced them to assimilate roman lifestyle which sucks.
@@SonofTiamat I think the stormcloak ending is more in line with canon. Mostly because you assassinate the freaking emperor in Dark Brotherhood. My own headcanon unless otherwise is that the Dragonborn is related to the septim dynasty and that rebuilding the blades is basically the Dragonborn forming his own blackshirts in order to press his claim on the throne.
Overall I like the imperial choices for jarls more. Brina was already respected in dawnstar and as a former legionnaire she likely understands the threat the thalmor still pose. Kraldar understands cooperation with the college is needed (let’s face it why else would anyone go to winterhold). Brunwulf is making long term efforts to integrate the extremely racist windhelm. Mavens the least pleasant one here but she was already running the show and if anything taking on the role officially might lead to more oversight. Then of course there’s jarl Ballin- need I say more.
@@rodrigosiqueira2115 What colonialism ? The Nords aren't native to Skyrim . The Snow Elves or Falmer are. It's their homeland but go on pretend the Nords are the ones being oppressed here. If they're such bloody ardent worshippers of Talos maybe they should stop tearing His Empire apart.
Maven being Jarl is a moot point when a storm cloak victory puts a silver-blood as jarl of Markarth. No matter who wins, a greedy a family gets a title.
@car6697 That's the thing, Maven will always have control of Riften no matter what, so that is one corrupt family taking control of a city. Joining the Stormcloaks will add an extra corrupt family taking control of a city. So it begs the question, would you rather have one city corrupt or two?
@@car6697Not a hot take I think. The Forsworn are pretty violent and insane, there’s no reasoning with them. Maven as a Jarl will only hurt Skyrim with her corruption. Silver-Blood is only slightly better though.
There are theories that the Thalmor wanted to keep the civil war going so that the empire would be too busy to fight the Aldamari Dominion. That's why there were Thalmor agents in Helgen at the beginning of the game, to make sure Ulfric wasn't executed and keep the civil war going. From what I hear, the empire is gearing up for another war with the Thalmor, and if the empire wins this time, Talos worship will be legal again. Edit: I know now that this is confirmed lore within the game and not a theory. I think it would be interesting if you could show proof of Thalmor interference in the civil war to Ulfric or Tulius and start a new side quest to expose them or kick them out of Skyrim.
More damning than that is Alduin himself interrupting the execution to allow Ulfric to escape so he could continue to feed off of souls slain in the war Ulfric is just a useful pawn in a grander game
Hermir Strong-Heart: "Everytime I see you my blood boils!" Me, in Full Daedric Armor, Wielding the Weapon of a God, and With Enough Cheese To Constipate Sheogorath: "RUN THEM HANDS!"
Potions are so much better than cheese, it's really not hard to make restore health potions. Just take Blue flowers and wheat and there you go. And they weigh less too
@@Grimno Not to mention Sheogorath would commit his insane equivalent of a Smite if he discovered someone choose potions over cheese because of some "logic and reason".
@@hobomike6935there was an online card game set during the great war where you play as the forgotten hero and save the empire, tullius was one of the cards you could use, I dont recall the name of the game off the top of my head
for some reason ulfric's body never disappeared in my playthrough, so now all the stormcloak jarls are dining at a table that has a naked ulfric's corpse on it.
Same. I decided to have fun and lift the body of Ulfric and put it on top of the table in front of the banished Jarl's and their aides for kicks and giggles. Made it look like a cannibal's dinner.
Not really gonna happen, considering she's one of their benefactors. Although if that questline is completed, with the Last Dragonborn taking up the role as leader, things might change.
Dark Brotherhood are just hired killers that get off on it. If you wanted her killed by professionals, send her to Morrowind and enlighten the Morag Tong.
@@tyranitararmaldo SKYRIM'S dark brotherhood were. Before the Great War, the Brotherhood was a proper assassins guild, with structure, ethics, and a very good reason to exist. Then the Thalmor happened.
@@wtf_is_this_handle_shit they were more structured, sure. But they were still founded off of "I wanna kill anyone and fap to it". That's why they split from the Morag Tong in the first place.
I hope you cna join the thalmor they're stylish and I always had a bit of a interest (as in looking into the racism etc while not supporting) in them ^^
@@Petaurista13“I’ve been screwed many times by hundreds of arrows in my torso! *_DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TENSION PNEUMOTHORAXES I HAVE HAD TO ENDURE!?”_*
I like how the Empire vs Stormcloak debate parallels how the actual in game arguments go. Empire supporters: •massive essay about the lore to support there claims* Stormcloak supporters: “SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!!!”
They're more like "Restore Talos!" Using Heimskrs high pitch voice. The Nords who do say that are racist yet surprisingly there are more Talos than Nord Stormcloaks.
I always was an imperial, but I never really hated ulfric until I talked to that court wizard in solitude, and she started talking about how torygg actually admired ulfric, but instead of talking he just walked into solitude and murdered him.
@@Velternate A legal challenge, but anything but fair. Ulfric was a veteran and a tongue, and they both knew Torygg was no match for him in any form of combat. Legally, he is high king - but realistically, King Ulfric is a murderer.
Hot take: Laila is the only stormcloak Jarl I think is actually genuinely a good person and the Rift is definitely going to be far worse after her exile than while she was in power there.
No, you're absolutely right. Riften has always been a piss hole, but at least there was some hope of things getting better before the Empire took over.
Yeah. It sure shows how actions have consequences and how people with bad ideals can have good hearts. If you side with the Empire you lose Riften to its corruption and if you side with the Stormcloaks you lose the one jarl who helped you most.
Yeah it's the one sacrifice you have to make siding with the Empire (I guess you could argue letting Siddger stay Jarl of Falkreath but Dengir is pretty bad too), though in some ways it is for the better as now instead of Maven pulling the strings from the shadows it's very apparent she is the one in charge, high outs her misdeeds in the split light which could lay the groundwork for a revolt. Laila's heart was in the right place but she had no authority over Riften and never suspected Maven or even her own Steward of betraying her. Put her in charge of one the smaller cities like Falkreath or Dawnstar and she'd do great, but she's not fit to fight the complex corruption of Riften. On a side note I do think it's odd Laila's Steward gets Exiled when she had been helping Maven the whole time. like sure Maven has plenty of closer people to make steward but i would've thought she'd vouch for her to stay in riften at least.
Well, I only play it too have funny really. I side with the Nords personally despite the flaws. But heck, it's fun to pretend too be Roma- I mean imperial....
I actually think Maven might be weaker as a jarl than as a business woman. As a jarl, she has to put up with a lot of bureaucratic BS she really doesn't like. There's also all the formalities, and all the traditions to uphold. Being a jarl is also likely cutting into her ability to go where she pleases and do whatever she wants. She can't go to the toilets without six guards and her steward following her. Maybe the Empire realized this would happen, and made her an offer she couldn't refuse. This way, they can take her down a hell of a lot easier.
Stormcloak supporters: He died for us! and we will never give up! Ulfric in Sovngard: Only now that I am dead do I see how much of a fool I have been Man if only his loyal fanclub would know.
@@justarock9553 Well it seems dying somehow elevates their minds, as if they just gained access to a lot of info they did not know in life. Like how much of a prick he was being.
They'll never know the truth. Not even his war crimes in Markarth. They'll believe whatever they want to. But like Tulius and Rikka say; eventually they'll all settle down and go back home. Find something else to believe in.
No he is a coward, cause he worked with the Thalmar. They promised him skyrim if kept the empire distracted. And if truly believe he isn't a coward, look at the execution scene. He has shouts but stood inside a building while the general stood with his men outside and fought for the people of Helgen. Ulfric is not a warrior, hes not a true nord, hes not anything but the biggest fool In Skyrim and I put his soul in a Soul gem where a coward belongs
Its funny, the game almost tries to influence you into picking Stormcloak for most of it, what with Ulfric giving a "noble" speech when you enter his castle and making Imperials bad right off the bat with their execution attempt (which yeah, IS bad.) But like the more you learn about the world, the more you realize how flawed their idiologies are, and you start realizing that the "noble" rebels aren't actually the good guys in the grand scheme. I think its super interesting because if you just play the game without paying attention, its just a regular adventure story, but if you pay attention to the lore and politics, its actually super in depth. Thats why I still love these games
Honestly, the best choice is one you can't make: convince the Stormcloaks to side with the Empire AGAINST the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks and the Imperials are bad for both Skyrim and the Empire, for different reasons. Why I usually just choose to stay out of it entirely.
When I first played the game, I sided with the Stormcloacks because I was a nord and I followed Ralof (honestly didn't even know I could follow Hadvar until two playthroughs later). When I got to Windhelm to join the Stormcloaks, I was met with people being mistreated by the nords of the city. After that, I never really had a good outlook on the Stormcloacks. They talk about freeing Skyrim and such but it only really seemed like for the Nords. I always sided with the Imperials in every other playthrough (if I joined a side at all).
Then you doesn't understand nothing of the lore. Do You realize that the last remaining forces to fight the thalmor are in skyrim? (Besides redguards) but literally the Empire just want to force the province to supously "protect skyrim of the thalmor" while the thalmor kidnap and execute everyone on sight. Skyrim and the nords can defend by themselves with no shitty Empire.
I find it ironic there’s a conversation between Hermir and Oengul about Ulfric’s armor and how the cuirass is done... Ulfric doesn’t wear armor and the only “armor” he wears is just some low-tier light armor bracers that count as clothing in the game’s code.
@@DarkAdonisVyers at least he wears armor unlike Ulfric who, during the siege of Windhelm will be equipped with his normal clothes and bracers, while Balgruuf has steel plate armor during his siege from the stormcloaks
Just started playing a new character as a Imperial. Lets just say interactions with most within Stormcloak controlled cities is colorful at best. Instead of being called Rebel Scum I'm called Imperial scum.
Tullius' last line is why I always side with the imperials. It's very clear that Ulfric was riled up by the thalmor intentionally so that the empire would weaken and at worst lose ANOTHER province. By fighting with the imperials you keep skyrim in the empire and ultimately give the empire a more unified and better chance when they fight the thalmor again. because nobody likes the thalmor, imperials or stormcloaks. siding with the imperials gives the greatest chance to stopping the thalmor.
sure do help people that wanted to cut off your head just for being at the wrong place at the wrong time... i will never ever understand how someone can ever join Imps after having theyr head on a chopping block and headsman in mid swing being saved by Alduin at the last possible moment ... and they KNEW the Dragonborn had nothing to do with the Stormcloaks, just less paperwork with one more head lopped off ...
@@Asghaad I'm not saying the empire is good. I'm saying the thalmor are worse. By siding with the Imperials the odds of beating the thalmor are much higher with Skyrim in the Empire. The elves started the war by manipulating Ulfric, and you are falling for their trick just as Ulfric did.
@@tophrodite4922 the fact that Empire couldnt even take Skyrim back when half of the Jarls were on THEYR side speaks volumes on how that is a total nonsense, at this point united Skyrim is most likely better fighting force protecting much smaller area than the rest of the Empire combined ... its a failed state falling apart on it own... now Skyrim with demigod Dragonborn on its side can definitely F up the Dominion remember Nords did it once before and they were fighting ALL Mer races not just High Elves.
@@Asghaad You know if the dragonborn sides with the empire its the ENTIRE empire + skyrim + the dragonborn. That is way more powerful that just a weakened skyrim, from the civil war, and the dragonborn.
I like how both sides have good points in Skyrim. The imperials make a good case, they really don’t care what race you are, and they are probably the best resistance against the Thalmor. But I understand the Stormcloaks side of things to, the Nords have been treated like shit from the empire, and now they just have to sit there and take it. I think 2:44 makes the best case for the stormcloaks. Overall, the civil was quest line wasn’t cut and dry, you had to pick in your mind, the lesser of the 2 evils
It really is ironic that nords are angry they were treated like shit while also forcing the argonians to work at the docks, the elves to live in slums and the khajit to stay outside of city walls and treating all non humans with disdain
@@alwins it's also funny that no one really talks about the dunmer being one of the most racist, xenophobic races in tamriel. I'm not saying they deserve to be in slums it's just kinda funny that a Nord and Vvardenfell would get similar treatment to a Dark Elf in Windhelm.
I think Elda's case was very poor. It ignores the millions of Imperials (yes, millions) that died before a single Nord Legion had to shed blood in the Great War. It ignores the sacrifices the Imperials made for Skyrim. And then the Stormcloaks callously disregard not only the deaths of so many Cyrodiilic men, women, and children, but also the faith of the Imperials, after all, it is said that there are no people with greater faith in the nine than the Colovians.
@@plaidpvcpipe3792 Fair enough. Personally I also see the imperials as the better option. But I also understand it from the stormcloak’s side of things. The empire let a foreign power torture many of its citizens. I understand the circumstances in which the empire was forced to. But it does beg the question of if the empire is even strong enough to protect itself. As I said, I think the empire is the best option. But the stormcloaks are right on a lot of things as well
Empire supporters: -It's nice to not be discriminated against as much -I'm glad the war is over -Now we are united against the Thalmor Stormcloacks supporters: -MUH FREEDOM -DARK ELVES TOOK MAH JERBS -SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS (even though we are like the third people to come here at least just ignore that part) Yeeeeeeeeeeeah Imma join the empire, we can work on reinstating Talos worship later
And it was confirmed that after the Second Great War the Empire would reinstate Talos worshiping anyway, they playing smart, not ignorant. Nords always been easy to fool because of their pityfull pride and honor. Pride and honor does not match plain LOGIC
Such disregard for individual liberties and independence. Must be a leftie. This mix of authoritarianism and knee-bending runs strong in that crowd. "But the Nords aren't the first". Okay, when are you leaving the country with all the millions of people who aren't descendants of the Natives? Every nation has conquered and been conquered at some point. It is childish to argue about this.
@@skavanagh2778 Which they actually weren’t until Ulfric started making a fuss about it, which forced the Empire to crack down on it, and they won’t be once the Thalmor are defeated in the next Great War.
@@lonewalling938 I'm not a fan of that logic because A) There was probably still suppression even before the rebellion and B) It just comes across as weirdly victim blaming. "You see if you didn't complain about us accepting the new ban we wouldn't have let them build the torture camps."
I used to always side with the stormcloaks, but I feel bad for the argonians and the dark elves, I don't love tullius, but ulfric isn't great either. I prefer the empire though. also the new jarl of windhelm is one of my favourites, along with elisif and balgruuf.
Dunmer are slavers and extreme racists so honestly they don't deserve rights outside of Morrowind. They genuinely think that Argonians and Khajiit are so lesser that they don't even count as Sentient beings and are only useful as Slaves. People who feel bad for the Dunmer clearly never played Morrowind, where Slavery is the norm and anyone who isn't a Dunmer and born in Morrowind is lesser and unworthy of rights.
I love what they did here, THIS is one of my many reasons to always go back to skyrim, You hear everyone’s opinion, Everyones struggles and what they felt BUT not from just one sided or bad views, Its by their experience. Many elves and Argonians were treated badly by the nords, When You meet a few far away that actually would help EVEN Ulfric himself stated as long as You fight and care for Talos and our traditions, He would welcome You. Had they been told otherwise by the good nords or even those who may have a stronger opinion on joining the fight, Most may have a better opinion or better view. Overall this is a great both sided to give people.
Basically, the whole situation is like one big puzzle. You have to find all the hints, lore and records, and put them all together. Neither side is a perfect choice, but it's up to you to figure out which is the lesser of the two evils. When I found out the truth of things, I figured it out myself. The most important thing is not to be swayed by pretty speeches. It's not about who has the better opinion, but the truth behind both sides. And one of them is more laced with lies.
Considering the stormcloaks are just blatant racists, and that the empire is trying to end the stormcloaks so they can direct their attention to the thalmor who are the true evil....
I think Belethor puts it best when he says that the Stormcloaks and Imperials aren't all that different. They both have good and bad ideas, and do good and bad things, almost as equally as each other. I just wish the civil war questline wasn't so short
Nah the Imperials are objectively the good guys. Unless you like the thalmor that is. Ulfric was promised Skyrim by the Thalmor if he kept the Empire busy with a civil war. The truth is that the Thalmor don't give such a damn about Talos worship as to go through with what they're doing. Instead it's mostly show to rile up the nords into joining thr Stormcloak army, fueling the fires of war. For the Thalmor to be defeated and for man and mer to remain as societal equals, Ulfric the Pretender and his puppet soldiers have to be stamped out. There is no other way.
@@YourPalKindred I agree with that last part you mention. Ulfric was some sort of a puppet without him realising it. I don't actually know what the Thalmor promised Ulfric, is that part of the lore? Ulfric was so blind he couldn't see that he whole Talos thing was a manipulation mechanism agains him. I don't hate Ulfric, I think he's just stupid.
@@YourPalKindred The Thalmor didn't promise Ulfric anything, they just tortured and gaslit him into starting a rebellion. Ulfric is the one person in Skyrim who hates the thalmor more than anyone else.
@@FeCyrineuPretty sure the guy in the Riften sewers who survived the Sacking of the Imperial City and the Battle of the Red Ring hates the Thalmor a _lot_ more than Ulfric.
I like how brunwolf got elected as jarl. he was one of the only dudes that stood up for the dark elves and argonians and the imperials saw that. brunwolf has more honour than ulfric and im sure he will make windhelm a great city. not corrupted and poisoned by ulfrics dream of racially segregating anyone who Is not a nord.
I'm no fan of Ulfric, but I wouldn't call that his dream - more an unfortunate reality he inherited. He sure didn't do anything to stop it, but idk if it's fair to call bigotry of that kind his goal
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Why talk to the man when you can look at his actions. Look at the state of the argonians and dunmer in Windhelm and tell me Ulfric cares about more than nords.
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Doesn't really matter, since prejudices against other races seem to be so common among the entirety of the Stormcloaks that the only non-human in their ranks can be the PC when choosing their side.
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Naaah, you don't get. Thalmor benefits from emprire's losing its territories, from it being torn apart. If I join the imperials, I help to keep it more or less intact. And if Skyrim becomes independent, it is an easy target for my pretty long-eared racists
@@hathatto1129 Thalmor Benefits from everything that happens in the civil war. Besides, the stormcloaks have way better chances of winning against the thalmor than the the empire. Because the empire is pretty much dead. Im fact it died a long time ago. With Talos.
Stormcloak supporters always seem to ignore that Talos worship only began being prosecuted after Ulfric made a big deal about it, before that the Empire let the Nords worship, but Ulfric forced the Empire's hand, if they wanted to prevent a second war with the Aldmeri Domimion.
What are you saying. Empire let thalmor run rampant in Skyrim persecuting any talo's worshippers. The agreement of white gold concordat outlawed Talos worshipping, renounced large portion of hammerfell, disbanded blades to save its throne in cyrodil.
@@dodoextinct4597 The Empire did not persecute Talos worship in Skyrim before the Markarth Incident with Ulfric Stormcloak, despite signing the Concordat. After the Markarth Incident, the Thalmor realized that the Empire is not honoring the accord and then forced the Empire's hand to allow Justiciars to root out Talos worship. The Stormcloaks are impassioned peasants who don't understand how to win wars from a position of weakness.
@@Dimitrije_Sukovic That's not what happened at all. What REALLY happened was, the Empire lost Markarth to the Reachmen, who ruled the city for three years. Finally, in desperation, the Empire promised Ulfric he could freely worship Talos if he helped take back the city - which he did, using the Voice. Except the Empire never actually told the Aldmeri Dominion about this, perhaps hoping they just wouldn't find out. When they finally did, they scapegoated Ulfric and imprisoned him, and banned Talos worship. This directly led to the Stormcloak Rebellion. Yes, the Thalmor wanted him to rebel, because it weakens the Empire and allows them free reign to execute Talos worshippers in Skyrim, but they were already doing that under wraps long before(see Northwatch Keep). But they absolutely did ban Talos worship, that's what CAUSED the Stormcloak rebellion, NOT the other way around.
Because she has friends in the Empire that love her. It's an extremely corrupt and increasingly decaying government apparatus down there when you start to really think about it. Titus II doesn't even try to stop you from killing him which really says something about the state of his office and the general status of the Empire's "officials" as a whole.
@@irongeneral7861 even so they should know how much of a twisted evil covetest old sow Mavin is the empire is in a downward spiral but they are not stupid or gullible
Personally, I feel that being the last Dragonborn would have a huge impact on the politics of Skyrim and even the Empire. You literally have Dragon blood and a dragon soul which makes you a candidate to become the Emperor. IIRC, most of the Emperors had Dragonblood up until I think the Mede bloodline. What I head canon in my Dragonborn playthroughs is my Nord character pulling a mini Ulfric. That is, unlike Ulfric wanting to break away, I choose to vie for Semi Independence. I’ll side with the Imperials and kill Ulfric but most of Skyrim also likes me because I helped them out with quests and shit. And I’m also Dragonborn that killed Alduin and Miraak. By end game most of Skyrim reveres me and word of me being Dragonborn spreads to Cyrodill. I also destroyed the Dark Brotherhood. Eventually after the Civil War is over with an Imperial victory, I head canon that the Emperor comes to meet the LDB to congratulate him for his services etc etc. But in this meeting the LDB says “You know, my claim to become Emperor is legitimate. But relax, I don’t want to overthrow you yet. I’m going to be High King of Skyrim.” The LDB nominates himself for High King, the moot convenes and elects the LDB, bada bing bada boom. And the LDB puts his foot down and declares to the Emperor that Skyrim would be on good terms with the Empire, we can trade and yada yada, but Skyrim will be Semi Independent. If the Empire signs a treaty or pact, if the LDB doesn’t like it or think it can be detrimental to Skyrim, then he’s not obliged to follow it. Down the line if the current Empire falls or can’t handle itself anymore then the LDB would break away and using his authority and status as the LDB create another Empire, effectively pulling a Tiber Septim.
If the past actions of confirmed dragonborns is anything to go by along with the Paarthurnax telling the LDB that his dragon blood makes you want to dominate the LDB should really be attempting to at least become the high king, he would have a huge amount of support just of the fact he's a confirmed dragonborn and with him beating Alduin that support should be even bigger and after he beats Miraak, absorbs his soul and becomes the champion of Harmus Mora there really isn't anyone that can stop him from doing that.
Same but I'd side with the Stormcloak and join the brotherhood the empire is falling anyway why not rise a new. Help Ulfric take over skyrim and kill him or lessen his control/power and create a new empire using his army and March towards the white gold tower and assume your rightful throne new dynasty.
It doesn't necessarily put you in the running by itself or anything, and not every emperor has had dragon-blood, BUT the peoples of Tamriel are used to having a dragonblood emperor and so it gives you a lot of legitimacy. Frankly the fact that by the end of Skyrim you're essentially a demigod that can personally cut down divine beings or entire mortal armies, that puts you on the level of mortal Talos.
@@jqa16 That could also work. I just prefer killing Ulfric because I don’t like him or his policies. I also prefer a more organic approach to establishing a new Empire. Instead of discarding the current one and starting a new one, adapt the old Empire into whatever you want. Sort of like a take over. My DB would say “I’m taking control of the Empire now” instead of “I’m declaring a new Empire based on my dragonborn/dragonblood authority”.
i feel like the civil war would be more impactful if there were more physical indicators of change. ie, building new homes for argonians outside the wall
I love how the moment a nord does not support daddy Ulfric, he/she is no longer a nord. Maybe Elisif, Balgruuf, Rikke and native legion recruits can gain citizenship in Cyrodiil then.
It's sad really, if Ulfric actually sat down and listened to reason and the reality of the empire, he might've realized that when the empire surrendered, they didn't do it to shame the people or lick the boots of the Thalmor, it was to play the Thalmor's little game. If Ulfric could see this outlook, him and his army would've really help bolster the empire's ranks. For both the Empire and Thalmor know there's going to be another great war, as evident from dialogue from Tullius, and Ondolemar.
Unfortunately, Ulfric seems incapable of thinking more then one step ahead. I agree with his rethoric on principle (if Skyrims people wish to be a sovereign nation, able to practice their own culture and religious belives, then they should be), but his shortsightedness and his more often then not impulsive actions prove that he's unfit to rule. Not to mention he listens to the council of a guy like Galmar; someone who is just as narrow-minded as Ulfric but twice as bloodthirsty. Wich forces me, or rather my Dragonborn, to begrudgingly side with the empire for Skyrims sake. (I still kill any Thalmor patrol I come across though.)
Gone are the days when the Nords used to be smart (as Tsun said in Sovngarde, the Nords of today have no respect for the Clever Craft that is magic, they rely on brute force)
@@keifujitora6587I was pleasantly surprised when I hear that dialogue and also finding a lot of Archmages in Sovngarde, it's clear magic is considered an art just as honorable as being a strong warrior, sad that current nords have such a shortsighted opinion on it
It depends on the house each one has different tradition/values, some welcome outsiders and trade without the need of slavery and others are isolationists with seeing outsiders as little more than animals
I'm all for keeping the Argonians out until the Nords can learn to be tolerant of them. I GUARANTEE that the moment one steps into the walls they'd be attacked and probably killed. And the fact that the Imperial win means the Dark Elves get a better Gray Quarter is a bonus
I used to be a heavy Stormcloack supporter. But when you play this game long enough and learn more and more. you start the realise. Witoud the Empire, Tamriel would be at the mercy of the Thalmor.
@@XCharizard100 ah yes, dude forgot that the Empire were the mvp in Hammerfell by greatly weakened the Dominion in Skaven, leaving the Redguard an easier battle ahead. Without the Empire help, Hammerfell would also be at the mercy of the Thalmor
except one small detail, Nords nearly wiped out all Mer back when the elves were much more powerful ... United Skyrim with a Dragonborn demigod as a vanguard would roflstomp Aldmeri into the ground... Empire is falling apart on its own, the Stormcloak rebelion winning is kinda showing that Empire is done for when they can be kicked out by one rebellious province
@@Asghaadancient Nords didn't worship Tiber Septim and was among the best magic users, which future magic practices was based upon. Considering all these dragonpriests and magic weilding draugurs who also had power of the voice. Nords is only a pale shadow of their former selves.
Agreed even should Skyrim fall This Dunmer will raise all the Loyal Dunmer I can Find in Morrowind and Invade to free the StormCloaks from Imperial Control House Redoran Telvanni and House Dagoth will help
Skyrim players, take note: If you wish to become Thane of all nine holds, hold off until you completed the Dragon Rising quest and have sided with either the Empire or Stormcloaks and have fully reunified or liberated Skyrim. That way, you’ll have an easier time becoming Thane in all the holds, even Riften!
This was cool to see I guess. I've never played the game as an imperial only the stormcloaks. Sometimes though it's better not to do the civil war quest because of how many castles it replaces with soldiers. Itll be places with bandits, mages forsworn and you can raid all these places. When I do the civil war now. It's late into the game and I can level up a lower skill because the enemies dont scale as high in the civil war are are pretty weak.
I see people bash Empire's decision of making Maven the Jarl, but when I think about it. what else could they do? If they tried to install their own Jarl, then Maven would still rule the city from behind the curtains, while the Jarl would probably become nothing more that a figure head or, the Empire would have to go on war route against her, which ain't the best when the rebellion has just been quelled.. But, by making Maven the official ruler, they played her perfectly, since now they can more effectively control what she's doing, even pressure her if she goes too far with her antics.
Damn i really love Skyrim community and people still debate who's right and wrong Obviously both side got bad and good but imperial always better than stormcloaks "long live the empire and legionnaire"
It's only a debate if you know nothing about the lore and don't realize the Empire literally supports a race so racist it makes the Stormcloaks look like the NAACP
I never go Stormcloak. Sure, it's annoying seeing Maven all smug in the Jarl's chair...but if you're Master of the Thieves Guild and Listener to the Dark Brotherhood, you basically hold all the power over her. You're even pals with Karliah who wrote a thesis on how to screw with her (even if it was as a side-effect of her plan).
7:36 What she forgets is that until Ulfric swung his weight around people simply worshipped in their homes. The Empire wasn't going to enforce the ban so long as there wasn't open agitation.
@@dodoextinct4597 funnily enough when you talk to the Blacksmith at Riverwood, even he tell you that people had little shrines of Talos in their homes. Up until Ulfric used it as a political tool, did the Thalmor start sending their secret police
@@pedrovieira4987 but nordwarua's guard armors are fucking gorgeous shame to not see them anymore, not that it matters I never do the civil war questline
Dunmer in Morrowind: Damnation and tarnation be upon the Empire, outsiders who steal from our land and destriy our tradtions. Dunmer in Skyrim: Gods bless the Empire, a thousand blessings upon the legions, Azura bless the Imperials.
Jarl Brun wulf is still not letting the Argonian in claiming it the Nords doing when in reality it the Dunmer at fault so again the Empire is Oppressive not just to the outlaw of Mighty Talos but to the Argonians as well
@@CommanderM117 where did you get the idea that the Nords are ok with the Argonians being in the city? I'm pretty sure it was Ulfric that put them out, according to the Argonians.
@@valdish9620 Ulfric did so to prevent Aggression by Dunmer because Ulfric father Let the Dunmer Live in the Grey Quarter and when Ulfric came into power their may of bean Tension at the Time. most of the Nords in the city have Sympathy for the Argonian Unlike the Dunmer is is shown in game also Ulfric does not just control Windhelm but all the cities meaning that in Riften things are peaceful between Dunmer and Argonian so it just winhelm their a problem
It is heartwarming to see windhelms dark elves being listened and their needs finally adressed. Ulfrics cause was honorable but full of blood and irrational racism
They’re being racist to a race that doesn’t belong there, while the Empire was oppressing the nords in their own homeland. Not to mention that the Empire had abandoned Redguard to Thalmor in exchange for a peace treaty but the Redguardians fought back on their own and won.
@@fellowtemplar5679 No one, "doesn't belong." Listen to brunwulf or whatever the name of the new jail of windhelm is, "Skyrim is big enough for all of us:
I think the next game will probably put us in the middle or beginning of the final war between all of Tamriel against the Thalmor. Somehow we will have to unite every nation and race for this greater cause against evil
I love how 90% of the Elder Scrolls community only ever played Skyrim, and forget just how actually racist the Dark Elves were, and are. They literally invented the N-Word of the Elder Scrolls universe. Remember House Dres and House Telvanni next time you feel bad for the Dunmer in Windhelm. Filthy "Nwahs" wouldn't even have the luxury of being accepted into a city if it were up to the Dunmer back in Morrowind.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA " The N-Word of the Elder Scrolls universe " made me laught But you are absolutely totaly right The Dunmers are litteraly as racist and suppremacist as the Altmers and the Thalmor No, they might be even worse At least, the Altmers aren't slavers. Unlike the Dunmers Btw and long story short : When I was a kid, I used to side with the *Stormcloaks* Then I grew older, I started to see the bigger picture, and I sided with the *Imperial* Then I got interested in the lore, and I saw the "whole bigger picture". And now, *I side with the Stormcloaks again*
@@OuhHey At this point I just made myself a custom lore inside my head, where the Dragonborn becomes Emperor after settling peace in High Hrothgar between the Empire and the Stormcloaks. Stormcloaks rule over Skyrim, and help the Empire along with the Dragonborn in reconquering Cyrodiil, and then go after Alinor to destroy the Aldmeri Dominion once and for all. Hey, the Dragonborn could even re-lit the Dragon Fires in the Imperial City.
Whenever I side with the Empire, I always feel bad for Jarl Laila Law-Giver. She's genuinely trying to make Riften a less crappy place, and then she gets forcibly exiled, leading Maven Black-Briar to become Jarl. Sheesh. There really *are* no winning situations in the peace treaty.
I sorta feel bad as well, but then I remember how woefully incompetent her and her administration actually was (she put Maven in charge of getting rid of the Thieve’s Guild ffs). Likewise her steward is also corrupt. The reality was that Maven was always in charge of Riften. The change in titles just reflects the reality that’s always existed. And while Maven is obviously corrupt and self serving at least she has the resources and political willpower to potentially do something that benefits the city. Law-Giver was a figurehead with only theoretical power.
"Being forced into exile is the most humiliating thing of my life" Should've picked the side with the guy who can control the voice like no other. What? You did? Oh, right.
Even though it has no actual effect on the game, and is likely nonsense. I like joining the Stormcloaks even though I always play as an Argonian. It feels like I'm showing Ulfric the error of his ways when his best soldier who leads the charge is of a race he discriminates against. I wish that he would say something about that if the player is an Argonian or Dunmer. Would be a cool bit of character development.
What I like about the Skyrim civil war is how, no matter your side, the end result is realistic and bittersweet. If the rebels win, Skyrim is free but the Empire is weaker for it and the hold of the Thalmor over it strengthens. If the Empire wins it remains unified and better prepared to eventually fight the Thalmor, but you've also killed lots of people who only wanted to fight for their freedom. The conflict feels grounded and tragic, a very mature decision from Bethesda.
true, finished it for the first time and I feel a peaceful vibe, like my character wants to take it easy for a while and see the result across the cities
I feel the Empire is the best choice for Skyrim due to more of a headcanon thing. The Empire could barely.stand up to the Aldmeri Dominion and, without the treaty, they would have full right to march on Skyrim and not anger the rest of the empire. I feel that Skyrim wouldn't be able to stand against them and that, even though the Empire can't either, it's better that the treaty remain a barrier for the people
Most of the time i join the stormcloaks cause i feel it would make for a more interesting story but if it were up to me when it comes to what’s canon, the empire should win
I find it funny how every character in the game seem to believe that this war was just about a religious belief and that what the elves truly wanted was to abolish their faith. Even tho all the thalmour really wanted was to weaken their enemy, ideally that the civil war would never end. I wonder tho if they would prefer if the stormcloaks win? Then they would have 2 smaller enemies that are still bickering instead of one that is preparing for war just against them.
In my game I always adopt Sofie.She's orphaned because of Ulfric.He spoke of sacrifices needing to be made.Guess he doesn't mean him being sacrificed,just his men like Sofie's dad.
I do see over the years that many joined the Stormcloaks due to the Empire literally almost separting your head from your neck. Pragmatic and simple enough. It would only make sense to fight those who almost killed you... Until you discover the reasoning as to why Tullius was seeking to execute Ulfric and his bannermen so hastily and who exactly Ulfric is and how the Thalmor are in relation to him. You see, Tullius, I believe, is a very intelligent man and a brilliant tactician. I believe he knew Ulfric was an unknowing pawn to the Thalmor and saw the Dominion's ploy to weaken the Empire with an unending civil war and wanted their plan foiled quickly with a headsman's axe at Helgen. It was no coincidence Elenwen and the Thalmor were also present so quickly...most likely keeping tabs on Ulfric and trying to keep him alive from a distance long enough to make it to Hammerfell. Unfortunately, well...dragons and all...also, you got to live.
Why would the thalmor need to make it to hammerfell? Also if tullius knew ulfric was being manipulated why is it that he never tries to negotiate until the dragonborn itself forces him to even when you kick elenwen out he stays quiet
@@mickyflint I believe that the Thalmor wanted Ulfric to parlay with Redguard sympathizers (it would explain why he might've been trying to get to Hammerfell in the first place when he was caught) and create that much more of a problem for the Empire on the south and western borders of Skyrim. It would create a huge political mess for Cyrodiil and issues in Hammerfell itself. Hammerfell has no real love for the Empire now and would be open to better relations with an independent Skyrim. The Dominion lost to the Redguards and would want to take back territory eventually with Ulfric being an unknowing pawn to create chaos. The Thalmor know Hammerfell is no longer an Imperial province, and to send Imperial troops into Hammerfell to deal with Ulfric would lead to more war. I tend to think the Dominion wants holdings in the Iliac Bay to push on to Balfiera and Adamantine Tower, but the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai put a huge hamper on doing that directly.
The funny part I find of the civil war videos is that comment sections are based on the video itself Vid is pro-stormcloack? Comment section is full with players who support the stormcloacks Vid is pro-empire? Comment section is full with players who support the empire.
Asgier Snow-Shod puts it best, "I'm not so certain that Ulfric's intentions are as noble as they think. I think Ulfric cares about Ulfric and the rest is a smokescreen." When you side with the Stormcloaks, the dialogue at the end of the questline makes it clear Ulfric just wanted to be king. He didn't really care about Talos or the freedom of Skyrim, this was all about power to him. I have never sided with the Stormcloaks after the first time I did it, because of all the people the Nords, and specifically the Stormcloaks, have hurt. The Forsworn, the Argonians, the Dark Elves, and the Khajit to a lesser extent. The Stormcloaks are racist assholes and I'm happy to give Ulfric the business end of my sword.
God the Nords having no clue about the great war or how bad ulfric was, it's sad. I mean ulfric didn't even fairly duel the high king he used a shout in a traditional nord duel. You can't use magic in a nord duel. Then he just declared him self high king, that's a position given that's voted upon by the jarls of skyrim.
One of my favorite things to do after the civil war is walk around Windhelm in my full heavy Imperial armor and listen as everyone hurls insults at me
Average Chad Imperial Supporter
@@andresalvarez5415 "average empire enjoyer"
@@yungmacro3801 stormcloaks are racists omegalul
stormсuсks are destroyed haha long live the empire
@@yungmacro3801 oh they definitely do
reasons to not be a stormcloak: Balgruuf will no longer be a jarl.
reasons to not be an imperial: Maven will becomes a jarl
It gets ironic if you join the Thieves Guild.
Balgruuf is great! Maven is... problematic
Balgruuf is a Chad though. Maven basically runs the place already.
What's wrong with Balgruuf? Seems like a pretty cool character
Balgruuf is outstanding and surely the best and most influential over any other Jarl.
Let's be honest, Maven was already the real Jarl of Riften even during the civil war.
During and before, even the steward had actually more influence than the actual Jarl of Riften
And i mean, while law-giver does have lines that make her sound just, if you listened to conversations while she was still jarl of rifted you would hear her planning to abandon the city if it where to ever fall, and never leaving the keep for fear of imaginary assasins
@@gamemaster1608 well... Riften was literally only Capital City to have damn crime syndicate in damn sewers, despite they weren't even hiding. And there is no quest to end them so Jarl of Riften is bs.
Pretty much she held all of Riften in her pockets via her connections and such, she even held the Guards in her pocket, the Jarl didn't dared to do anything against her.
If the stormcloaks win, a Silver-Blood becomes Jarl in Markarth. No matter who you side with a greedy family gains more power.
The last sentence by General Tullius seals the deal
The Thalmor have always been the true enemy, which is just waiting to attack at any moment
So true, Ulfric is an idiot for not realizing it earlier.
@@--Nyx- Ulfric is an unknowing patsy to the Thalmor agenda, so it's no surprise.
Even when you side with Ulfric, Tullius's last words are calling you all stupid because you played right into the Thalmor's hands. The man is a true G.
@@JB-xl2jc It's funny that Tullius only says that to Ulfric when Tullius is _losing_
@@DarkAdonisVyers They only have one conversation in the timeline in which Tullius wins, and that's Tullius telling him to surrender. There's no point in telling him about the Thalmor's plans because they're now moot and Ulfric will die regardless.
@@JB-xl2jc Also, during the talks at High Hrothgar. Still words like that when you're losing is meaningless. It's like in Witch and the Hundred Knight when Malia reveals that she's Metallia's mother, after Malia is defeating. Pretty shitty way to beg for mercy there. Tullius comes across in the same way.
Love that foreshadowing at the end with Tulius. There's definitely going to be another war with the Thalmor.
can't wait for tes 6
@@davicarvalho6699 and I can't wait for half-life 3
And can't wait for Team Fortress 3 too smh
And Sonic Adventure 3
@@dmitrykhvostik5975 and Portal 3... lotta 3s around here
It sucks that with imperial rule Maven Blackbrier of all fucking people becomes the Jarl of Riften
i mean she basically was already, Laila was essentially a puppet ruler.
Shes a strange case. I hate that fact you cant do nothing to the woman in the entire game, Bethesda making her important like Delphine is..ridiculous
Why is there no option to convince a jarl of a hold to switch sides if I'm thane? I did so much for his/her people and their hold. I wish there was a feature in which if I had a good enough speech level and was thane I could ask them to switch sides in the Civil war. Or advise general Tullius which one should be jarl of a hold if I was Legate.
I wish the character of yours would do something about the Thalmar. Cause again he is Dragonborn so he can call a dragon army when ever he wants not to mention he has that one daedric prince entire library at his disposal
@@danteredgrave120 Yeah, I wish you could reveal the Thalmor dossiers to the public and start the second great war instead of having to fight in the civil war. When you take the fight to the Thalmor, the stromcloaks and many imperial 'volunteers' could come and lend their aid. That way, you push the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Once that's over, they could have a treaty in which Skyrim is free but they must be an ally when the second great war comes along and must allow the passage of imperial troops to and from the land.
It's interesting that even General Tullius respected the cause that the Stormcloaks rallied behind. Regardless of which side I choose for whatever playthrough I'm doing, Tullius will always be a great man in my eyes.
He didn’t respect the Stormcloaks. He respected the local Nords who joined the Legion.
@@muslimcrusader5987 No, he knew what the Stormcloaks stood for and understood why they stood for it.
@@muslimcrusader5987 Have you ever chosen the Imperials in a playthrough, just to find out what what they stand for? Tullius clearly knows that the Thalmor are a greater threat then the rebels ever were. He simply has no choice but to continue to fight other men instead of mer.
@@jeremyforbes2636 but one of his lines is litteraly
"It's not a cause its a rebellion"
Rikke (or however you spell it) is the one who has sympathy for the stormcloaks and has some level of respect for ulfric and while she's willing to do what must be done she's still sorrowful that it turned up this way
@@muslimcrusader5987 The Thalmor is much more powerful than the Empire if the Stormcloaks fragment it further. However, it is true that the Thalmor want the war to continue on to weaken both to the point where the humans can be simply wiped out. I'll admit that there isn't really a right side or view for this conflict, as both views are very solid.
Oengul War-Anvil, claiming he's better than Eorlund yet the Stormcloaks were armed mostly with iron weaponry and derivation of hold guard's armor. Even Ulfric's second-in-command was using lowly iron battleaxe.
I believe that even Balimund in riften is better than Oengul
@@KaoruSF Course, i mean he have a expert lvl smithing
Average stormcloak dude. All bark no bite
@@bigbahg damn
@@bunnitomoe3866 Fire Salts
Maven being a Jarl of Riften makes you wish for a Nuclear Winter
Thongvor silver-blood as jarl of markarth makes you hope for the end of the world
Maven might be a capitalist but Thongvor is a slavery supporter
@@EredediIsildur yeah silver bloods are worse than black briars
Ave, true to Septim.
Maven is a tyrannical ruler just like Dikstra in witcher fuck them both to be honest. Nords did own the land as a Japanese man myself I'd be mad if a foreign empire did set the rules for me. For everyone supporting the empire this was like the Romans enslaved Germania and forced them to assimilate roman lifestyle which sucks.
Empire is the obvious better choice with Maven and the Thalmor agents being the only downsides
What kind of proud Nord wears elven armor anyway?
and an Elven who support the stormcloaks
@@berkaytemel2996 I remember Anuriel being pretty self serving, which is why it's easy to blackmail her. Riftin is the Skyrim equivalent of Chicago
@@SonofTiamat and giving it to maven is like, idk not an improvement.
@@scutumfidelis1436 I always wished you could sunset her
@@SonofTiamat I think the stormcloak ending is more in line with canon. Mostly because you assassinate the freaking emperor in Dark Brotherhood.
My own headcanon unless otherwise is that the Dragonborn is related to the septim dynasty and that rebuilding the blades is basically the Dragonborn forming his own blackshirts in order to press his claim on the throne.
A character sharing her VA with Aela calling you dog is pretty funny
Truly is
dark elves of windhelm: glad they can live without racist rules
Niranye: stealing is good occasionally
Niranye is the city's Thieves Guild Fence.
Also Dark Elves in Morrowind: filthy n'wah
@@CoffeeSuccubus Nerevar: ex-fucking-cuse me?
@@Janoha17 Think she is a thalmor spy selling weapons to the stormcloaks to keep war against imperias
@@platinumchromee3191Unas Annus reference?
Overall I like the imperial choices for jarls more.
Brina was already respected in dawnstar and as a former legionnaire she likely understands the threat the thalmor still pose.
Kraldar understands cooperation with the college is needed (let’s face it why else would anyone go to winterhold).
Brunwulf is making long term efforts to integrate the extremely racist windhelm.
Mavens the least pleasant one here but she was already running the show and if anything taking on the role officially might lead to more oversight.
Then of course there’s jarl Ballin- need I say more.
So you support colonialism
@@rodrigosiqueira2115 What colonialism ? The Nords aren't native to Skyrim . The Snow Elves or Falmer are. It's their homeland but go on pretend the Nords are the ones being oppressed here.
If they're such bloody ardent worshippers of Talos maybe they should stop tearing His Empire apart.
@@rodrigosiqueira2115 Yes.
@@clothar23 My dude here pitting facts! Nice
@@rodrigosiqueira2115 Nords just want an ethno state.
Maven being Jarl is a moot point when a storm cloak victory puts a silver-blood as jarl of Markarth. No matter who wins, a greedy a family gets a title.
It's a moot point because Laila is just a puppet of Maven so there's not really any difference between who holds the official title
hot take ig but maven black briar is WAY worse of a Jarl (and ESPECIALLY as a person in general) than Thongvor Silver-Blood will ever be, IMHO
@car6697 That's the thing, Maven will always have control of Riften no matter what, so that is one corrupt family taking control of a city. Joining the Stormcloaks will add an extra corrupt family taking control of a city. So it begs the question, would you rather have one city corrupt or two?
@@car6697Not a hot take I think. The Forsworn are pretty violent and insane, there’s no reasoning with them. Maven as a Jarl will only hurt Skyrim with her corruption. Silver-Blood is only slightly better though.
You can wipe out the Silver Bloods though, save for the one that becomes Jarl. Hell, same with The Black-Briars to be honest
There are theories that the Thalmor wanted to keep the civil war going so that the empire would be too busy to fight the Aldamari Dominion. That's why there were Thalmor agents in Helgen at the beginning of the game, to make sure Ulfric wasn't executed and keep the civil war going. From what I hear, the empire is gearing up for another war with the Thalmor, and if the empire wins this time, Talos worship will be legal again.
Edit: I know now that this is confirmed lore within the game and not a theory. I think it would be interesting if you could show proof of Thalmor interference in the civil war to Ulfric or Tulius and start a new side quest to expose them or kick them out of Skyrim.
That’s not a theory, it’s confirmed in game. Check the thalmor dossiers on the wiki and in the game, it states exactly that.
@@raymondwen2858 in fact it isn't Ellenwen basically trying to get Ulfric not killed in Helgen?
More damning than that is Alduin himself interrupting the execution to allow Ulfric to escape so he could continue to feed off of souls slain in the war
Ulfric is just a useful pawn in a grander game
Oh, stop (hopefully) spilling es6!
It’s confirmed but they don’t want Ulfric to win either
Hermir Strong-Heart: "Everytime I see you my blood boils!"
Me, in Full Daedric Armor, Wielding the Weapon of a God, and With Enough Cheese To Constipate Sheogorath: "RUN THEM HANDS!"
Me: trap her in a soul gem and throw it to the Sea of Ghost.
Potions are so much better than cheese, it's really not hard to make restore health potions. Just take Blue flowers and wheat and there you go. And they weigh less too
@@wtf_is_this_handle_shit See that's good and all, and to that I counter with
But potions aren't a delicious wheel of cheese.
@@Grimno Not to mention Sheogorath would commit his insane equivalent of a Smite if he discovered someone choose potions over cheese because of some "logic and reason".
You got me at the cheese part😂
Tullius is the boss.
He basically told the dragonborn to "do what you gotta do" with regards to the Thalmor.
Time to visit Thalmor Ambassadors >:)
*Doom music intensifies*
Tullius was so cool. I wish I knew what he was like and what he was up to during The Great War.
@@hobomike6935with it being 30 years earlier or something I'm guessing he may have been a junior officer
@@hobomike6935there was an online card game set during the great war where you play as the forgotten hero and save the empire, tullius was one of the cards you could use, I dont recall the name of the game off the top of my head
Wink wink nudge nudge.
for some reason ulfric's body never disappeared in my playthrough, so now all the stormcloak jarls are dining at a table that has a naked ulfric's corpse on it.
Happened to me and did the same xd
I used a mod called "Tailor's Measure" and had him dressed as a Nocturnal. That's got to be embarrassing...
I never took is clothes and instead sat him and Galmar at the dining table with the rest of his buddies.
Same. I decided to have fun and lift the body of Ulfric and put it on top of the table in front of the banished Jarl's and their aides for kicks and giggles. Made it look like a cannibal's dinner.
5:47 Translation: I would, but Bethesda didn't want to program the Argonians going into the city.
Or... they're better off on the docks so they don't create a race war with the dunmer
Solution:
M O D S
@@Doyoueverwonderwhywerehere Or play an Argonian, marry Shavee or Scouts, and move into Hjerim.
To be fair considering the bloody history that dark elves and argonians have maybe it's better they don't freely walk in willy nilly yet.
Yeah the civil war questline despite being a major plot point in the game was so lazily done it's unbelievable.
Everyone who supported Ulfric were fighting for a nacho recipe.
What?
You want a real snack, eh?
@@sweetiedew7112 fruits and vegetables can be quite fresh and delicious!
@@talia5662 Bah!
Let's take a look at 'em !
We need a mod where J'zargo gets the throne
"J'zargo only has so much room to carry things"
Didnt j’zargo say that he didnt like politics
@@jarlbulgrufthe2nd37 That makes him the perfect candidate, assuming he has mastered the expert level destruction spells.
Kotis
yes
Ulfric stood up for all of Skyrim, as long as you were a Nord.
Skyrim belongs to the Nords
@@bigmate4721 The reach belongs to the forsworn!
@@bigmate4721 Altmora maybe but Skyrim hell no. Ulfric was just a pawn to the thalmor which helped them to deteriorate the empire even futher.
Me playing as a Redguard
@@bigmate4721 Skyrim belonged to the Falmer, Nords just strolled up and decided "Yo we think this is ours" and slaughtered them.
The Dark Brotherhood needs to receive a contract to take out Maven BlackBriar
Not really gonna happen, considering she's one of their benefactors. Although if that questline is completed, with the Last Dragonborn taking up the role as leader, things might change.
Dark Brotherhood are just hired killers that get off on it. If you wanted her killed by professionals, send her to Morrowind and enlighten the Morag Tong.
@@tyranitararmaldo SKYRIM'S dark brotherhood were. Before the Great War, the Brotherhood was a proper assassins guild, with structure, ethics, and a very good reason to exist. Then the Thalmor happened.
@@wtf_is_this_handle_shit they were more structured, sure. But they were still founded off of "I wanna kill anyone and fap to it". That's why they split from the Morag Tong in the first place.
@@tyranitararmaldo You don't even need the Morag Tong. Just send her to Vvanderfell and she'll die there, the Red Year fucked that place
There's no time to feel guilty about who replaced who. The Thalmor are coming and you will need every axe you can get.
True.
Me: "Well, that"s problem. I wouldn't be able to carry uckton of Elven armors as loot"
Lydia: "Screw you my Thane!"
I hope you cna join the thalmor they're stylish and I always had a bit of a interest (as in looking into the racism etc while not supporting) in them ^^
@@Petaurista13“I’ve been screwed many times by hundreds of arrows in my torso! *_DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TENSION PNEUMOTHORAXES I HAVE HAD TO ENDURE!?”_*
"I don't like talking to someone who holds their honor so cheaply"
- *The "True son of Skyrim" wearing Elven armor*
I like how the Empire vs Stormcloak debate parallels how the actual in game arguments go.
Empire supporters: •massive essay about the lore to support there claims*
Stormcloak supporters: “SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS!!!!”
It really is like that haha
Stormbros be like “lol imp meme dont care”
Not really but meh.
They're more like "Restore Talos!" Using Heimskrs high pitch voice. The Nords who do say that are racist yet surprisingly there are more Talos than Nord Stormcloaks.
Well, globalism and imperialism sucks in the real world.
It is worth it to make Skyrim a better place for my marsh friends
Joining the stormcloak army? Yeah, I agree.
Nope dont join the Thalmar soldiers, Empire through and through they will see it done.
@@Necrobadger yup
@@Necrobadger to get kicked out of the city no thanks
@@Necrobadger What you Stormcloaks like to forget is that the Empire's the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim.
I always was an imperial, but I never really hated ulfric until I talked to that court wizard in solitude, and she started talking about how torygg actually admired ulfric, but instead of talking he just walked into solitude and murdered him.
No? He fairly challenged Torygg. Using the voice isn't an excuse to blame ulfric, Torygg could have learned it too but didn't.
@@Velternate that wasnt the point at all lol
@@xanderisloading8310 Chilling that Elisif thinks Torygg would have championed an independent skyrim had Ulfric the decency to ask.
@@Velternate A legal challenge, but anything but fair. Ulfric was a veteran and a tongue, and they both knew Torygg was no match for him in any form of combat. Legally, he is high king - but realistically, King Ulfric is a murderer.
@@priamneville5899 you admitting that Ulfric being stronger but cannot be the king go against the whole nord lore you know...
Hot take: Laila is the only stormcloak Jarl I think is actually genuinely a good person and the Rift is definitely going to be far worse after her exile than while she was in power there.
Totally agree
No, you're absolutely right. Riften has always been a piss hole, but at least there was some hope of things getting better before the Empire took over.
Yeah. It sure shows how actions have consequences and how people with bad ideals can have good hearts.
If you side with the Empire you lose Riften to its corruption and if you side with the Stormcloaks you lose the one jarl who helped you most.
Except that Maven was already running the show
Yeah it's the one sacrifice you have to make siding with the Empire (I guess you could argue letting Siddger stay Jarl of Falkreath but Dengir is pretty bad too), though in some ways it is for the better as now instead of Maven pulling the strings from the shadows it's very apparent she is the one in charge, high outs her misdeeds in the split light which could lay the groundwork for a revolt.
Laila's heart was in the right place but she had no authority over Riften and never suspected Maven or even her own Steward of betraying her. Put her in charge of one the smaller cities like Falkreath or Dawnstar and she'd do great, but she's not fit to fight the complex corruption of Riften.
On a side note I do think it's odd Laila's Steward gets Exiled when she had been helping Maven the whole time. like sure Maven has plenty of closer people to make steward but i would've thought she'd vouch for her to stay in riften at least.
I love how people argue about skyrim politics in comments with passion like it is real world politics.
Well, I only play it too have funny really. I side with the Nords personally despite the flaws.
But heck, it's fun to pretend too be Roma- I mean imperial....
I actually think Maven might be weaker as a jarl than as a business woman. As a jarl, she has to put up with a lot of bureaucratic BS she really doesn't like. There's also all the formalities, and all the traditions to uphold. Being a jarl is also likely cutting into her ability to go where she pleases and do whatever she wants. She can't go to the toilets without six guards and her steward following her.
Maybe the Empire realized this would happen, and made her an offer she couldn't refuse. This way, they can take her down a hell of a lot easier.
She’ll just have them killed the next day or before that
With the Throne comes the scrutiny of her citizens and her peers.
@@Janoha17 Even her connections with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood can only take her so far
Stormcloak supporters: He died for us! and we will never give up!
Ulfric in Sovngard: Only now that I am dead do I see how much of a fool I have been
Man if only his loyal fanclub would know.
Wow, I'm gonna join the Imperials for all my playthroughs from now on now that you remind me of this lmao. Man changed his mind that quick huh?
@@justarock9553 Well it seems dying somehow elevates their minds, as if they just gained access to a lot of info they did not know in life.
Like how much of a prick he was being.
They'll never know the truth. Not even his war crimes in Markarth. They'll believe whatever they want to.
But like Tulius and Rikka say; eventually they'll all settle down and go back home. Find something else to believe in.
Alduin's mist makes everyone emo. Kodlak also "regrets" his life of fighting when under its influence.
@@jefthereaper No, Alduin's mist just made him emo, as it does, such as with Kodlak.
Big up Ulfric Stormcloak
Fitting
@@wackonaut Ulfric isn’t a coward
@@DefecTec maybe he isnt, he is brave but I think its the kinda bravery tied with being an idiot
@@ackthegreat6697 yea I can believe that, he’s reckless, he was around elenwen anyways, straight up told her she’s a bitch
No he is a coward, cause he worked with the Thalmar. They promised him skyrim if kept the empire distracted.
And if truly believe he isn't a coward, look at the execution scene. He has shouts but stood inside a building while the general stood with his men outside and fought for the people of Helgen.
Ulfric is not a warrior, hes not a true nord, hes not anything but the biggest fool In Skyrim and I put his soul in a Soul gem where a coward belongs
Its funny, the game almost tries to influence you into picking Stormcloak for most of it, what with Ulfric giving a "noble" speech when you enter his castle and making Imperials bad right off the bat with their execution attempt (which yeah, IS bad.)
But like the more you learn about the world, the more you realize how flawed their idiologies are, and you start realizing that the "noble" rebels aren't actually the good guys in the grand scheme.
I think its super interesting because if you just play the game without paying attention, its just a regular adventure story, but if you pay attention to the lore and politics, its actually super in depth. Thats why I still love these games
Honestly, the best choice is one you can't make: convince the Stormcloaks to side with the Empire AGAINST the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks and the Imperials are bad for both Skyrim and the Empire, for different reasons. Why I usually just choose to stay out of it entirely.
The Skyrim Empire and Stormcloaks remind me of politics.
When I first played the game, I sided with the Stormcloacks because I was a nord and I followed Ralof (honestly didn't even know I could follow Hadvar until two playthroughs later). When I got to Windhelm to join the Stormcloaks, I was met with people being mistreated by the nords of the city. After that, I never really had a good outlook on the Stormcloacks. They talk about freeing Skyrim and such but it only really seemed like for the Nords.
I always sided with the Imperials in every other playthrough (if I joined a side at all).
Then you doesn't understand nothing of the lore. Do You realize that the last remaining forces to fight the thalmor are in skyrim? (Besides redguards) but literally the Empire just want to force the province to supously "protect skyrim of the thalmor" while the thalmor kidnap and execute everyone on sight. Skyrim and the nords can defend by themselves with no shitty Empire.
@@CannedPsycho- you know the Dark Elves and Argonians are extremely racist in their home providence. Even more so than the Nords are in windhelm
I find it ironic there’s a conversation between Hermir and Oengul about Ulfric’s armor and how the cuirass is done... Ulfric doesn’t wear armor and the only “armor” he wears is just some low-tier light armor bracers that count as clothing in the game’s code.
Meanwhile, Tullius can't even decide whether or not he prefers light or heavy armor.
@@DarkAdonisVyers at least he wears armor unlike Ulfric who, during the siege of Windhelm will be equipped with his normal clothes and bracers, while Balgruuf has steel plate armor during his siege from the stormcloaks
@@averagecat4220 yeah but it looks cool like some game of thrones shit
Just started playing a new character as a Imperial. Lets just say interactions with most within Stormcloak controlled cities is colorful at best. Instead of being called Rebel Scum I'm called Imperial scum.
Play an Altmer, and side with the Stormcloaks. The dialogue is hilarious.
Tullius' last line is why I always side with the imperials. It's very clear that Ulfric was riled up by the thalmor intentionally so that the empire would weaken and at worst lose ANOTHER province. By fighting with the imperials you keep skyrim in the empire and ultimately give the empire a more unified and better chance when they fight the thalmor again. because nobody likes the thalmor, imperials or stormcloaks. siding with the imperials gives the greatest chance to stopping the thalmor.
I don’t think the imperials would ever fight the thalmor again
sure do help people that wanted to cut off your head just for being at the wrong place at the wrong time... i will never ever understand how someone can ever join Imps after having theyr head on a chopping block and headsman in mid swing being saved by Alduin at the last possible moment ... and they KNEW the Dragonborn had nothing to do with the Stormcloaks, just less paperwork with one more head lopped off ...
@@Asghaad I'm not saying the empire is good. I'm saying the thalmor are worse. By siding with the Imperials the odds of beating the thalmor are much higher with Skyrim in the Empire. The elves started the war by manipulating Ulfric, and you are falling for their trick just as Ulfric did.
@@tophrodite4922 the fact that Empire couldnt even take Skyrim back when half of the Jarls were on THEYR side speaks volumes on how that is a total nonsense, at this point united Skyrim is most likely better fighting force protecting much smaller area than the rest of the Empire combined ...
its a failed state falling apart on it own...
now Skyrim with demigod Dragonborn on its side can definitely F up the Dominion remember Nords did it once before and they were fighting ALL Mer races not just High Elves.
@@Asghaad You know if the dragonborn sides with the empire its the ENTIRE empire + skyrim + the dragonborn. That is way more powerful that just a weakened skyrim, from the civil war, and the dragonborn.
I like how both sides have good points in Skyrim. The imperials make a good case, they really don’t care what race you are, and they are probably the best resistance against the Thalmor. But I understand the Stormcloaks side of things to, the Nords have been treated like shit from the empire, and now they just have to sit there and take it. I think 2:44 makes the best case for the stormcloaks. Overall, the civil was quest line wasn’t cut and dry, you had to pick in your mind, the lesser of the 2 evils
It really is ironic that nords are angry they were treated like shit while also forcing the argonians to work at the docks, the elves to live in slums and the khajit to stay outside of city walls and treating all non humans with disdain
@@alwins it's also funny that no one really talks about the dunmer being one of the most racist, xenophobic races in tamriel. I'm not saying they deserve to be in slums it's just kinda funny that a Nord and Vvardenfell would get similar treatment to a Dark Elf in Windhelm.
@@alwins That’s the genius of the civil war quest line. Both sides are right on some things and wrong on the others.
I think Elda's case was very poor. It ignores the millions of Imperials (yes, millions) that died before a single Nord Legion had to shed blood in the Great War. It ignores the sacrifices the Imperials made for Skyrim. And then the Stormcloaks callously disregard not only the deaths of so many Cyrodiilic men, women, and children, but also the faith of the Imperials, after all, it is said that there are no people with greater faith in the nine than the Colovians.
@@plaidpvcpipe3792 Fair enough. Personally I also see the imperials as the better option. But I also understand it from the stormcloak’s side of things. The empire let a foreign power torture many of its citizens. I understand the circumstances in which the empire was forced to. But it does beg the question of if the empire is even strong enough to protect itself. As I said, I think the empire is the best option. But the stormcloaks are right on a lot of things as well
Empire supporters:
-It's nice to not be discriminated against as much
-I'm glad the war is over
-Now we are united against the Thalmor
Stormcloacks supporters:
-MUH FREEDOM
-DARK ELVES TOOK MAH JERBS
-SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS (even though we are like the third people to come here at least just ignore that part)
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah Imma join the empire, we can work on reinstating Talos worship later
And it was confirmed that after the Second Great War the Empire would reinstate Talos worshiping anyway, they playing smart, not ignorant. Nords always been easy to fool because of their pityfull pride and honor. Pride and honor does not match plain LOGIC
@@elliot04877 Wtf does the post have to do with Reddit?
@@k_balu-8104 Confirmed where? In someone's headcanon?
Such disregard for individual liberties and independence. Must be a leftie.
This mix of authoritarianism and knee-bending runs strong in that crowd.
"But the Nords aren't the first".
Okay, when are you leaving the country with all the millions of people who aren't descendants of the Natives?
Every nation has conquered and been conquered at some point. It is childish to argue about this.
"Every time look at you my blood boils"
Seems like alduin is getting an extra soul to snack on
Empire supporters : I'm glad to not be persecuted anymore.
Stormcloak supporters : *NORDS* *NORDS* *NORDS* *NORDS* , *BUT THE NORDS* , *TALOS* *TALOS* *TALOS*
'Ate dark elves
'Ate argonians
'Ate Imperials
Luv Norf and Talos
@@jorgenitales5882 luv me wife*
ah yes now only norms are persecuted for their religious freedoms of which there are far more norms in skyrim. what a great trade off
@@skavanagh2778 Which they actually weren’t until Ulfric started making a fuss about it, which forced the Empire to crack down on it, and they won’t be once the Thalmor are defeated in the next Great War.
@@lonewalling938 I'm not a fan of that logic because A) There was probably still suppression even before the rebellion and B) It just comes across as weirdly victim blaming. "You see if you didn't complain about us accepting the new ban we wouldn't have let them build the torture camps."
0:20 That sailor is pounding a nail into that poor man's head!
That’s so funny made me laugh so much thanks man
The empire has some weird new rules
This seems like the Dragonborn is running around like a snappy Journalist wondering about getting everyone's opinions for an article.
little did they know the dovahkiin is using a different power of the voice, the power of the people lmao
I used to always side with the stormcloaks, but I feel bad for the argonians and the dark elves, I don't love tullius, but ulfric isn't great either. I prefer the empire though. also the new jarl of windhelm is one of my favourites, along with elisif and balgruuf.
@Richard Wilson Leave my marsh bois alone
Dunmer are slavers and extreme racists so honestly they don't deserve rights outside of Morrowind. They genuinely think that Argonians and Khajiit are so lesser that they don't even count as Sentient beings and are only useful as Slaves. People who feel bad for the Dunmer clearly never played Morrowind, where Slavery is the norm and anyone who isn't a Dunmer and born in Morrowind is lesser and unworthy of rights.
I love what they did here, THIS is one of my many reasons to always go back to skyrim, You hear everyone’s opinion, Everyones struggles and what they felt BUT not from just one sided or bad views, Its by their experience. Many elves and Argonians were treated badly by the nords, When You meet a few far away that actually would help EVEN Ulfric himself stated as long as You fight and care for Talos and our traditions, He would welcome You. Had they been told otherwise by the good nords or even those who may have a stronger opinion on joining the fight, Most may have a better opinion or better view. Overall this is a great both sided to give people.
Basically, the whole situation is like one big puzzle. You have to find all the hints, lore and records, and put them all together.
Neither side is a perfect choice, but it's up to you to figure out which is the lesser of the two evils.
When I found out the truth of things, I figured it out myself. The most important thing is not to be swayed by pretty speeches.
It's not about who has the better opinion, but the truth behind both sides. And one of them is more laced with lies.
Considering the stormcloaks are just blatant racists, and that the empire is trying to end the stormcloaks so they can direct their attention to the thalmor who are the true evil....
Tbh it’s the nords country not theirs, it more like Japan than America
@@titkindaguy452 Weren’t the Orcs there before the rest including the snow elves?
@@WaylonMoone no idea ur probably right but I’m just talking about the games story line not the lore
Oh please Laila, you failed your people the minute you chose to turn a blind eye to Maven's scummy practices
Could you imagine if the entire game had character depth like this
I think Belethor puts it best when he says that the Stormcloaks and Imperials aren't all that different. They both have good and bad ideas, and do good and bad things, almost as equally as each other. I just wish the civil war questline wasn't so short
Nah the Imperials are objectively the good guys. Unless you like the thalmor that is. Ulfric was promised Skyrim by the Thalmor if he kept the Empire busy with a civil war. The truth is that the Thalmor don't give such a damn about Talos worship as to go through with what they're doing. Instead it's mostly show to rile up the nords into joining thr Stormcloak army, fueling the fires of war.
For the Thalmor to be defeated and for man and mer to remain as societal equals, Ulfric the Pretender and his puppet soldiers have to be stamped out. There is no other way.
@@YourPalKindred I agree with that last part you mention. Ulfric was some sort of a puppet without him realising it. I don't actually know what the Thalmor promised Ulfric, is that part of the lore? Ulfric was so blind he couldn't see that he whole Talos thing was a manipulation mechanism agains him.
I don't hate Ulfric, I think he's just stupid.
@@YourPalKindred The Thalmor didn't promise Ulfric anything, they just tortured and gaslit him into starting a rebellion. Ulfric is the one person in Skyrim who hates the thalmor more than anyone else.
@@FeCyrineuPretty sure the guy in the Riften sewers who survived the Sacking of the Imperial City and the Battle of the Red Ring hates the Thalmor a _lot_ more than Ulfric.
@@YourPalKindred "objectively the good guys." What a childish take my god
I like how brunwolf got elected as jarl. he was one of the only dudes that stood up for the dark elves and argonians and the imperials saw that. brunwolf has more honour than ulfric and im sure he will make windhelm a great city. not corrupted and poisoned by ulfrics dream of racially segregating anyone who Is not a nord.
I'm no fan of Ulfric, but I wouldn't call that his dream - more an unfortunate reality he inherited. He sure didn't do anything to stop it, but idk if it's fair to call bigotry of that kind his goal
Brunwulf is a great guy, yes. But Ulfric is the truest of sons of skyrim. Hes no racist, you know. Just talk to the man.
Aren't Dunmer literally most racist race in TES?
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Why talk to the man when you can look at his actions. Look at the state of the argonians and dunmer in Windhelm and tell me Ulfric cares about more than nords.
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Doesn't really matter, since prejudices against other races seem to be so common among the entirety of the Stormcloaks that the only non-human in their ranks can be the PC when choosing their side.
Play as High Elf, join Ulfric, just to help my beloved Thalmor
He never seems suspicious though
You'd be wrong
Of course he isnt suspicious. Race doesnt matter to him. And If you really want to help the Thalmor, than you should join the imperials.
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 Naaah, you don't get. Thalmor benefits from emprire's losing its territories, from it being torn apart. If I join the imperials, I help to keep it more or less intact. And if Skyrim becomes independent, it is an easy target for my pretty long-eared racists
@@hathatto1129 Thalmor Benefits from everything that happens in the civil war. Besides, the stormcloaks have way better chances of winning against the thalmor than the the empire. Because the empire is pretty much dead. Im fact it died a long time ago. With Talos.
@@crestfallenwarrior5719 they can't even win against a dead empire until MC joins them
All the Stormcloaks being salty af, meanwhile Ulfric regretting his life decisions in Sovngarde
Thank you someone said it. Stormcloak fans could argue day & night whose wrong. But Ulfic really drove the point that he fuck up in the end.
Stormcloak supporters always seem to ignore that Talos worship only began being prosecuted after Ulfric made a big deal about it, before that the Empire let the Nords worship, but Ulfric forced the Empire's hand, if they wanted to prevent a second war with the Aldmeri Domimion.
What are you saying. Empire let thalmor run rampant in Skyrim persecuting any talo's worshippers. The agreement of white gold concordat outlawed Talos worshipping, renounced large portion of hammerfell, disbanded blades to save its throne in cyrodil.
What you're saying is basically " What come first ? The chicken or the Egg ? "
Wrong
@@dodoextinct4597 The Empire did not persecute Talos worship in Skyrim before the Markarth Incident with Ulfric Stormcloak, despite signing the Concordat. After the Markarth Incident, the Thalmor realized that the Empire is not honoring the accord and then forced the Empire's hand to allow Justiciars to root out Talos worship. The Stormcloaks are impassioned peasants who don't understand how to win wars from a position of weakness.
@@Dimitrije_Sukovic That's not what happened at all. What REALLY happened was, the Empire lost Markarth to the Reachmen, who ruled the city for three years. Finally, in desperation, the Empire promised Ulfric he could freely worship Talos if he helped take back the city - which he did, using the Voice.
Except the Empire never actually told the Aldmeri Dominion about this, perhaps hoping they just wouldn't find out. When they finally did, they scapegoated Ulfric and imprisoned him, and banned Talos worship. This directly led to the Stormcloak Rebellion.
Yes, the Thalmor wanted him to rebel, because it weakens the Empire and allows them free reign to execute Talos worshippers in Skyrim, but they were already doing that under wraps long before(see Northwatch Keep).
But they absolutely did ban Talos worship, that's what CAUSED the Stormcloak rebellion, NOT the other way around.
Why must Mavin black Brier have a happy ending
Because she has friends in the Empire that love her. It's an extremely corrupt and increasingly decaying government apparatus down there when you start to really think about it. Titus II doesn't even try to stop you from killing him which really says something about the state of his office and the general status of the Empire's "officials" as a whole.
With mods you can. I prefer ripping her heart out as she blows up into a gorepile. Also i do that to all of the npc's i see especially Delphine
@@irongeneral7861 even so they should know how much of a twisted evil covetest old sow Mavin is the empire is in a downward spiral but they are not stupid or gullible
Average stormcloack supporter
Never know maven always in charge.
Because she is an essential npc
Literally 1,000s of hours playing and i have not heard most of these. Thanks!
You need to spend like me at least 10 K hours in this game to hear all of those lines.
Personally, I feel that being the last Dragonborn would have a huge impact on the politics of Skyrim and even the Empire. You literally have Dragon blood and a dragon soul which makes you a candidate to become the Emperor. IIRC, most of the Emperors had Dragonblood up until I think the Mede bloodline. What I head canon in my Dragonborn playthroughs is my Nord character pulling a mini Ulfric. That is, unlike Ulfric wanting to break away, I choose to vie for Semi Independence. I’ll side with the Imperials and kill Ulfric but most of Skyrim also likes me because I helped them out with quests and shit. And I’m also Dragonborn that killed Alduin and Miraak. By end game most of Skyrim reveres me and word of me being Dragonborn spreads to Cyrodill. I also destroyed the Dark Brotherhood.
Eventually after the Civil War is over with an Imperial victory, I head canon that the Emperor comes to meet the LDB to congratulate him for his services etc etc. But in this meeting the LDB says “You know, my claim to become Emperor is legitimate. But relax, I don’t want to overthrow you yet. I’m going to be High King of Skyrim.” The LDB nominates himself for High King, the moot convenes and elects the LDB, bada bing bada boom. And the LDB puts his foot down and declares to the Emperor that Skyrim would be on good terms with the Empire, we can trade and yada yada, but Skyrim will be Semi Independent. If the Empire signs a treaty or pact, if the LDB doesn’t like it or think it can be detrimental to Skyrim, then he’s not obliged to follow it.
Down the line if the current Empire falls or can’t handle itself anymore then the LDB would break away and using his authority and status as the LDB create another Empire, effectively pulling a Tiber Septim.
If the past actions of confirmed dragonborns is anything to go by along with the Paarthurnax telling the LDB that his dragon blood makes you want to dominate the LDB should really be attempting to at least become the high king, he would have a huge amount of support just of the fact he's a confirmed dragonborn and with him beating Alduin that support should be even bigger and after he beats Miraak, absorbs his soul and becomes the champion of Harmus Mora there really isn't anyone that can stop him from doing that.
Yes! Exactly! Dragonborn for High King!
Same but I'd side with the Stormcloak and join the brotherhood the empire is falling anyway why not rise a new. Help Ulfric take over skyrim and kill him or lessen his control/power and create a new empire using his army and March towards the white gold tower and assume your rightful throne new dynasty.
It doesn't necessarily put you in the running by itself or anything, and not every emperor has had dragon-blood, BUT the peoples of Tamriel are used to having a dragonblood emperor and so it gives you a lot of legitimacy.
Frankly the fact that by the end of Skyrim you're essentially a demigod that can personally cut down divine beings or entire mortal armies, that puts you on the level of mortal Talos.
@@jqa16 That could also work. I just prefer killing Ulfric because I don’t like him or his policies. I also prefer a more organic approach to establishing a new Empire. Instead of discarding the current one and starting a new one, adapt the old Empire into whatever you want. Sort of like a take over. My DB would say “I’m taking control of the Empire now” instead of “I’m declaring a new Empire based on my dragonborn/dragonblood authority”.
i feel like the civil war would be more impactful if there were more physical indicators of change. ie, building new homes for argonians outside the wall
Yeah, the only thing close we get is whiterun looking damaged and unpleasant for the rest of the game
There are some mods that can do just that and it changes a lot
@@2tired2p15 Whiterun looks damaged and unpleasant for the entire game
Yea. I dislike how everyone constantly talks about supply issues because of the war but the only fighting occurs in quests..
m o d s 👌
1:03
So Joshua Graham is a dark elf. Missed that part of New Vegas.
Well we dont get to see whats under those bandages so....
*Ulfri* : In the name of Talos, true son of Skyrim
*Hjalti Early-Beard* : [laughs in Reachmen]
I love how everyone likes that the imperials are in charge, except the nords
I love how the moment a nord does not support daddy Ulfric, he/she is no longer a nord. Maybe Elisif, Balgruuf, Rikke and native legion recruits can gain citizenship in Cyrodiil then.
It's sad really, if Ulfric actually sat down and listened to reason and the reality of the empire, he might've realized that when the empire surrendered, they didn't do it to shame the people or lick the boots of the Thalmor, it was to play the Thalmor's little game. If Ulfric could see this outlook, him and his army would've really help bolster the empire's ranks. For both the Empire and Thalmor know there's going to be another great war, as evident from dialogue from Tullius, and Ondolemar.
Unfortunately, Ulfric seems incapable of thinking more then one step ahead. I agree with his rethoric on principle (if Skyrims people wish to be a sovereign nation, able to practice their own culture and religious belives, then they should be), but his shortsightedness and his more often then not impulsive actions prove that he's unfit to rule. Not to mention he listens to the council of a guy like Galmar; someone who is just as narrow-minded as Ulfric but twice as bloodthirsty. Wich forces me, or rather my Dragonborn, to begrudgingly side with the empire for Skyrims sake.
(I still kill any Thalmor patrol I come across though.)
Wasn't he brainwashed by the thalmor?
I mean he's a Nord. And majority of them are muscle-brains.
Gone are the days when the Nords used to be smart (as Tsun said in Sovngarde, the Nords of today have no respect for the Clever Craft that is magic, they rely on brute force)
@@keifujitora6587I was pleasantly surprised when I hear that dialogue and also finding a lot of Archmages in Sovngarde, it's clear magic is considered an art just as honorable as being a strong warrior, sad that current nords have such a shortsighted opinion on it
Aren't Dunmer pretty isolationist in their own homeland? And yet they hold it against Nords for wanting to do the same
Ay
Dunmer love to complain, I’ve noticed.
Depends on the house but by enlarge, yes (although its more affiliation based then racial at least in morrowind's writing)
@@orangutanenthusiast5631 True. I remember Hlaalu and Redoran being friendly to the Empire whereas Telvanni are fiercely independent
It depends on the house each one has different tradition/values, some welcome outsiders and trade without the need of slavery and others are isolationists with seeing outsiders as little more than animals
I'm all for keeping the Argonians out until the Nords can learn to be tolerant of them. I GUARANTEE that the moment one steps into the walls they'd be attacked and probably killed.
And the fact that the Imperial win means the Dark Elves get a better Gray Quarter is a bonus
I used to be a heavy Stormcloack supporter. But when you play this game long enough and learn more and more. you start the realise. Witoud the Empire, Tamriel would be at the mercy of the Thalmor.
Hammerfell isn't
Hammerfell says hi
@@XCharizard100 ah yes, dude forgot that the Empire were the mvp in Hammerfell by greatly weakened the Dominion in Skaven, leaving the Redguard an easier battle ahead. Without the Empire help, Hammerfell would also be at the mercy of the Thalmor
except one small detail, Nords nearly wiped out all Mer back when the elves were much more powerful ... United Skyrim with a Dragonborn demigod as a vanguard would roflstomp Aldmeri into the ground... Empire is falling apart on its own, the Stormcloak rebelion winning is kinda showing that Empire is done for when they can be kicked out by one rebellious province
@@Asghaadancient Nords didn't worship Tiber Septim and was among the best magic users, which future magic practices was based upon. Considering all these dragonpriests and magic weilding draugurs who also had power of the voice. Nords is only a pale shadow of their former selves.
We won't go quietly, the Legion can count on that.
Agreed even should Skyrim fall This Dunmer will raise all the Loyal Dunmer I can Find in Morrowind and Invade to free the StormCloaks from Imperial Control
House Redoran Telvanni and House Dagoth will help
Silence Profligate!
@@tomsparks2697 Wrong Legion
If the legion breaks through our defenses i have an arrow that im saving just for me.
Skyrim players, take note: If you wish to become Thane of all nine holds, hold off until you completed the Dragon Rising quest and have sided with either the Empire or Stormcloaks and have fully reunified or liberated Skyrim. That way, you’ll have an easier time becoming Thane in all the holds, even Riften!
This was cool to see I guess. I've never played the game as an imperial only the stormcloaks. Sometimes though it's better not to do the civil war quest because of how many castles it replaces with soldiers. Itll be places with bandits, mages forsworn and you can raid all these places. When I do the civil war now. It's late into the game and I can level up a lower skill because the enemies dont scale as high in the civil war are are pretty weak.
I see people bash Empire's decision of making Maven the Jarl, but when I think about it. what else could they do? If they tried to install their own Jarl, then Maven would still rule the city from behind the curtains, while the Jarl would probably become nothing more that a figure head or, the Empire would have to go on war route against her, which ain't the best when the rebellion has just been quelled.. But, by making Maven the official ruler, they played her perfectly, since now they can more effectively control what she's doing, even pressure her if she goes too far with her antics.
Damn i really love Skyrim community and people still debate who's right and wrong
Obviously both side got bad and good but imperial always better than stormcloaks "long live the empire and legionnaire"
It's only a debate if you know nothing about the lore and don't realize the Empire literally supports a race so racist it makes the Stormcloaks look like the NAACP
@@Necrobadger well i rather support a faction with plan than a faction that driven by feeling, anger and honor
@@carrotstew5279 you sound like you're also an NCR supporter
@@gravitonnedissapointment1820 hmmm
@@Necrobadger the empire supports wild elf?
I never go Stormcloak.
Sure, it's annoying seeing Maven all smug in the Jarl's chair...but if you're Master of the Thieves Guild and Listener to the Dark Brotherhood, you basically hold all the power over her. You're even pals with Karliah who wrote a thesis on how to screw with her (even if it was as a side-effect of her plan).
"It's better to be seen as a fool rather than being a fool yourselves."
-dunno just came to my mind
That one fucking line explains my problem with the internet, everyone views me as a fool when i aint a fool
7:36 What she forgets is that until Ulfric swung his weight around people simply worshipped in their homes. The Empire wasn't going to enforce the ban so long as there wasn't open agitation.
I mean the Thalmor secret police arresting people at night is definitely an enforcement.
@@kneeofjustice9619 The Justiciars only came around thanks to Ulfric's shenanigans at Markarth.
@@dutchpatriot17 dude it's literally in the white gold concordant that allows free thalmor investigation in Skyrim.
@@dodoextinct4597 funnily enough when you talk to the Blacksmith at Riverwood, even he tell you that people had little shrines of Talos in their homes.
Up until Ulfric used it as a political tool, did the Thalmor start sending their secret police
That dumbass Ulfirc just made the horrible situation even worst.
Ah the good ending, now that's the life.
Bad ending because guards start wearing fugly imperial armor
@@clitcrusader4897 mods can solve that, using the imperial armor from Oblivion, now that's the real deal
@@pedrovieira4987 but nordwarua's guard armors are fucking gorgeous shame to not see them anymore, not that it matters I never do the civil war questline
The stormcloaks won here? Or are you on the side of the Super Racists?
@@pedrovieira4987 Shame you need mods just to make the imps look good in their occupation.
This was great, feedback to our choices makes RP so much more interesting!
4:48 A passionate and proud nord wearing elvish armour? The irony 😂
Dunmer in Morrowind: Damnation and tarnation be upon the Empire, outsiders who steal from our land and destriy our tradtions.
Dunmer in Skyrim: Gods bless the Empire, a thousand blessings upon the legions, Azura bless the Imperials.
Tue but Morrowind is now destroyed
They say the empire is oppressive...
With absolutely no consequences for saying it.
Jarl Brun wulf is still not letting the Argonian in claiming it the Nords doing when in reality it the Dunmer at fault
so again the Empire is Oppressive
not just to the outlaw of Mighty Talos but to the Argonians as well
@@CommanderM117 where did you get the idea that the Nords are ok with the Argonians being in the city? I'm pretty sure it was Ulfric that put them out, according to the Argonians.
@@valdish9620 Ulfric did so to prevent Aggression by Dunmer because Ulfric father Let the Dunmer Live in the Grey Quarter and when Ulfric came into power their may of bean Tension at the Time.
most of the Nords in the city have Sympathy for the Argonian Unlike the Dunmer is is shown in game
also Ulfric does not just control Windhelm but all the cities meaning that in Riften things are peaceful between Dunmer and Argonian so it just winhelm their a problem
@@CommanderM117 Once more with the blind baseless speculation, lmfao.
Ulfric has no authority over the Rift.
while if you say something bad about ulfric then get ready to face executions from the stormcloacks
It is heartwarming to see windhelms dark elves being listened and their needs finally adressed. Ulfrics cause was honorable but full of blood and irrational racism
They’re being racist to a race that doesn’t belong there, while the Empire was oppressing the nords in their own homeland. Not to mention that the Empire had abandoned Redguard to Thalmor in exchange for a peace treaty but the Redguardians fought back on their own and won.
@@fellowtemplar5679 No one, "doesn't belong." Listen to brunwulf or whatever the name of the new jail of windhelm is, "Skyrim is big enough for all of us:
Read Elder Scrolls lore on the Dunmer.
They are an active slaver society which is just as racist as the Thalmor.
I think the next game will probably put us in the middle or beginning of the final war between all of Tamriel against the Thalmor. Somehow we will have to unite every nation and race for this greater cause against evil
The question remains: where would the Dragonborn stand in all of this?
@@Aredel Unless they are Thalmor then With the Empire against the thalmor.
I once played as a Dark Elven Imperial soldier, and walked around Windhelm after Ulfric Stormcloak was defeated.
I love how 90% of the Elder Scrolls community only ever played Skyrim, and forget just how actually racist the Dark Elves were, and are. They literally invented the N-Word of the Elder Scrolls universe. Remember House Dres and House Telvanni next time you feel bad for the Dunmer in Windhelm. Filthy "Nwahs" wouldn't even have the luxury of being accepted into a city if it were up to the Dunmer back in Morrowind.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA " The N-Word of the Elder Scrolls universe " made me laught
But you are absolutely totaly right
The Dunmers are litteraly as racist and suppremacist as the Altmers and the Thalmor
No, they might be even worse
At least, the Altmers aren't slavers.
Unlike the Dunmers
Btw and long story short :
When I was a kid, I used to side with the *Stormcloaks*
Then I grew older, I started to see the bigger picture, and I sided with the *Imperial*
Then I got interested in the lore, and I saw the "whole bigger picture".
And now, *I side with the Stormcloaks again*
@@OuhHey At this point I just made myself a custom lore inside my head, where the Dragonborn becomes Emperor after settling peace in High Hrothgar between the Empire and the Stormcloaks.
Stormcloaks rule over Skyrim, and help the Empire along with the Dragonborn in reconquering Cyrodiil, and then go after Alinor to destroy the Aldmeri Dominion once and for all.
Hey, the Dragonborn could even re-lit the Dragon Fires in the Imperial City.
Whenever I side with the Empire, I always feel bad for Jarl Laila Law-Giver. She's genuinely trying to make Riften a less crappy place, and then she gets forcibly exiled, leading Maven Black-Briar to become Jarl. Sheesh. There really *are* no winning situations in the peace treaty.
I sorta feel bad as well, but then I remember how woefully incompetent her and her administration actually was (she put Maven in charge of getting rid of the Thieve’s Guild ffs). Likewise her steward is also corrupt. The reality was that Maven was always in charge of Riften. The change in titles just reflects the reality that’s always existed. And while Maven is obviously corrupt and self serving at least she has the resources and political willpower to potentially do something that benefits the city. Law-Giver was a figurehead with only theoretical power.
@@DovahFett you make a good point. as shitty as maven is. in the long run she could potentially bring positive change to the city.
You should have seen what happened to Germany after world war I. War is never good in the short term.
@@MuttMagician And that was Germany's fault lol
This is the Empire's whole point: a shitty peace is better than a lost war and direct Thalmor rule
“I don’t like talking to someone who sells their honor so cheaply” ~ said the Nord wearing Elven armor.
Its funny how heated people manage to get over fictional factions within a game.
To be fair, look at how heated they get over factions in the real world. :P
"Being forced into exile is the most humiliating thing of my life"
Should've picked the side with the guy who can control the voice like no other.
What? You did?
Oh, right.
I guess they bet on the wrong guy with the voice
Jod: "i should bash your face in for after everything you done".
me, the dragonborn who killed Alduin: "that's a pretty bad idea".
me who has YET to kill Alduin: you sure about doing that?
Even though it has no actual effect on the game, and is likely nonsense. I like joining the Stormcloaks even though I always play as an Argonian. It feels like I'm showing Ulfric the error of his ways when his best soldier who leads the charge is of a race he discriminates against.
I wish that he would say something about that if the player is an Argonian or Dunmer. Would be a cool bit of character development.
Yeah, it'd be cool
0:26 Damn, didn't know Nick Valentine didn't like Ulfrics guts
It's justified
What I like about the Skyrim civil war is how, no matter your side, the end result is realistic and bittersweet.
If the rebels win, Skyrim is free but the Empire is weaker for it and the hold of the Thalmor over it strengthens.
If the Empire wins it remains unified and better prepared to eventually fight the Thalmor, but you've also killed lots of people who only wanted to fight for their freedom.
The conflict feels grounded and tragic, a very mature decision from Bethesda.
/"Duel of the fates" plays
true, finished it for the first time and I feel a peaceful vibe, like my character wants to take it easy for a while and see the result across the cities
I feel the Empire is the best choice for Skyrim due to more of a headcanon thing. The Empire could barely.stand up to the Aldmeri Dominion and, without the treaty, they would have full right to march on Skyrim and not anger the rest of the empire. I feel that Skyrim wouldn't be able to stand against them and that, even though the Empire can't either, it's better that the treaty remain a barrier for the people
The only flaw i see with legion victory is the thalmor and the banning of talos, ofcourse that is something to be fixed.
Most of the time i join the stormcloaks cause i feel it would make for a more interesting story but if it were up to me when it comes to what’s canon, the empire should win
I find it funny how every character in the game seem to believe that this war was just about a religious belief and that what the elves truly wanted was to abolish their faith. Even tho all the thalmour really wanted was to weaken their enemy, ideally that the civil war would never end. I wonder tho if they would prefer if the stormcloaks win? Then they would have 2 smaller enemies that are still bickering instead of one that is preparing for war just against them.
The stormcloacks win in the cannon world of skyrim
The outcome is not canon yet.
not really
It is apparently more lilkely, however we have to wait for Elder Scrolls VI
Dark elf whinning about Nords being racists is ... just nuts.
In my game I always adopt Sofie.She's orphaned because of Ulfric.He spoke of sacrifices needing to be made.Guess he doesn't mean him being sacrificed,just his men like Sofie's dad.
A child in solitude has the same backstory but with his parents being imperials so you could say the same about him
@@markosgelos3321 which child is that?
@@markosgelos3321 the only male child I know of is Kayd and his parents are alive.
@@Karcarius you can find him at the stables forgot his name though he tells you how he has to sleep by the horses etc
@@markosgelos3321 oh ok I remember now.
I do see over the years that many joined the Stormcloaks due to the Empire literally almost separting your head from your neck. Pragmatic and simple enough.
It would only make sense to fight those who almost killed you...
Until you discover the reasoning as to why Tullius was seeking to execute Ulfric and his bannermen so hastily and who exactly Ulfric is and how the Thalmor are in relation to him.
You see, Tullius, I believe, is a very intelligent man and a brilliant tactician. I believe he knew Ulfric was an unknowing pawn to the Thalmor and saw the Dominion's ploy to weaken the Empire with an unending civil war and wanted their plan foiled quickly with a headsman's axe at Helgen.
It was no coincidence Elenwen and the Thalmor were also present so quickly...most likely keeping tabs on Ulfric and trying to keep him alive from a distance long enough to make it to Hammerfell.
Unfortunately, well...dragons and all...also, you got to live.
Why would the thalmor need to make it to hammerfell? Also if tullius knew ulfric was being manipulated why is it that he never tries to negotiate until the dragonborn itself forces him to even when you kick elenwen out he stays quiet
@@mickyflint I believe that the Thalmor wanted Ulfric to parlay with Redguard sympathizers (it would explain why he might've been trying to get to Hammerfell in the first place when he was caught) and create that much more of a problem for the Empire on the south and western borders of Skyrim.
It would create a huge political mess for Cyrodiil and issues in Hammerfell itself. Hammerfell has no real love for the Empire now and would be open to better relations with an independent Skyrim.
The Dominion lost to the Redguards and would want to take back territory eventually with Ulfric being an unknowing pawn to create chaos. The Thalmor know Hammerfell is no longer an Imperial province, and to send Imperial troops into Hammerfell to deal with Ulfric would lead to more war.
I tend to think the Dominion wants holdings in the Iliac Bay to push on to Balfiera and Adamantine Tower, but the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai put a huge hamper on doing that directly.
"Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak."
The funny part I find of the civil war videos is that comment sections are based on the video itself
Vid is pro-stormcloack? Comment section is full with players who support the stormcloacks
Vid is pro-empire? Comment section is full with players who support the empire.
War leads to thousands of deaths:
Empire: signs treaty to stop war until forces can rekindle and defeat thalmor
Nords: >:(
Asgier Snow-Shod puts it best, "I'm not so certain that Ulfric's intentions are as noble as they think. I think Ulfric cares about Ulfric and the rest is a smokescreen." When you side with the Stormcloaks, the dialogue at the end of the questline makes it clear Ulfric just wanted to be king. He didn't really care about Talos or the freedom of Skyrim, this was all about power to him. I have never sided with the Stormcloaks after the first time I did it, because of all the people the Nords, and specifically the Stormcloaks, have hurt. The Forsworn, the Argonians, the Dark Elves, and the Khajit to a lesser extent. The Stormcloaks are racist assholes and I'm happy to give Ulfric the business end of my sword.
Yea fuck them Stormcloaks, the Empire's what it's at
I agree. It feels like the GOP are our Stormcloaks. Do we need to teach them the same lesson?
I feel like you havent dived too deep into the lore, friend. How do you came to the conclusion, that Stormcloaks are racist?
God the Nords having no clue about the great war or how bad ulfric was, it's sad.
I mean ulfric didn't even fairly duel the high king
he used a shout in a traditional nord duel. You can't use magic in a nord duel.
Then he just declared him self high king, that's a position given that's voted upon by the jarls of skyrim.