Pinhead's NEW Origin In Clive Barker's Hellraiser Remake - Explained
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- Опубликовано: 13 ноя 2018
- in 2014 clive barker announced he was working on a remake of his original hellraiser, the film that he debuted as director.
nothing has come from this remake, and, according to Clive barker himself, its unlikely to happen.
today I run through the brand new origin of pinhead in this script, because, I now have the script to hand.
its an interesting depiction of the hell priest, very different in comparison
#hellraiser #pinhead #horror #halloween
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As with Lovecraft, Barkers horror comes from the fact that the forces of the universe are not what we know and are in fact utterly uncaring. The cenobites and Hell were essentially a force of 'nature' and nature is neutral and uncaring, neither good nor evil but implacable none-the-less. To have Pinhead and the cenobites be openly and maliciously evil is actually LESS horrifying than being the inescapable will of the Leviathan. I'm glad we will never see this script turned into a film. Hollywood's obsession with black and white, easily digested morality would only detract from what made the series good in the first place.
Don't read The Scarlet Gospels then, you'll probably be as disappointed as I was.
I have always preferred the High Priest, the cenobyte who was not "evil" per say, but was a being who sought to share the "pleasures" of the labyrinth with those who desired it - rather than a demon or an unambiguously evil entity, the High Priest as Clive Barker first envisioned him was wonderfully interesting, but was never the true antagonist of the series. He was a looming, terrifying, presence but was never the one who was actively trying to harm the protagonists.
It's sad that much like so many other icons of horror, he was overused and made to be (at this point) a parody of what he once was.
Clive barker himself did it too. Just look what he made him to be in the scarlet gospels
I'd prefer a remake of lord of illusions . I felt the story for hellraiser,muddied with all sequels, but I'd love to see pinhead take over hell and a true icon of sadomasochism
'se'
The dicotomy of pleasure vs. pain seemed way more interesting than the standard good vs. evil tangent, though the new script does have some good ideas.
TheBloodswordsman Yes !! You perfectly described the essence of pinhead perfectly. I never viewed him as the antagonist but rather a consequence of dabling with what is not for humans. The box to me was the antagonist if that makes sence.
I prefer the original 'origin' story. In my opinion, the second Hellraiser movie is the best of the series (and while you need to watch the first film to understand what is happening) it is my favourite horror film of all time.
Absolutely, the second was always my favorite of the series
Hellraiser 2 has always been my favorite horror movie.
My favorite hellraiser was actually bloodlines
It is not hands that summon us. It is desire
J Taylor
It's - "It is not hands that call us... It is...desiiire"
Great line !
Clarence Boddiker hell yeah. Just rewatched the first two on Netflix the other night.
J Taylor
Fingers crossed it gets a proper budget and reboot. Such a rich story and so many possibilities.
Yes!
He had some great lines . I met Doug Bradley at a comic con in Watford in circa 1992/3
Yeah I find Evil unambiguous white robe pinhead a bit less interesting than the mysterious explorer in the furthest reaches of experience.
Hey! Fan of your channel. Awesome to hear my track in the intro. It fits really well!
I hate how the current trend in popular culture is to rewrite established canon.
I still mourn the loss of a Hellraiser movie, but I'm almost glad that this one didn't see production.
I feel ya there. I have always wanted to see a new hellraiser movie done properly. Not a remake. Just something to add to the story but then i always think it was the darkness and the unknown that made it what it is and perhaps it should stay that way
I hate the way they rewrite the classics, also.
I dread the day they attempt to remake "Phantasm". All the mysteries of the original series will be replaced with a bunch of lame explanations. The red planet will get a name, the Tall Man will have a clearly defined objective, and they'll devise a way to kill him.
(And a lame technicality to bring him back, if needed for a sequel)
If you go by the first movie, I always thought pin head and others weren't of hell or heaven, but something like lovecraftain in nature, the idea of heaven and hell was something we told our selves that's where good people and bad people go, not really knowing the truth, that there isn't either of those places, but other realms of reality, where creatures like pin head live and other realms had even more stranger living beings, but the box was a key to go to these other world or realms, one box could open the door to the world of the cenobites, but other could take you to other world, that would have different creatures or monsters
I never saw any of the movies. Is there a good place or good box?
They are extra dimensional beings. Their dimension is truelly a place of dark pleasures and the greatest of pain. Our minds can only conceive and utter one word to describe their plane, hell.
@@1showoff842 the first one and the second one, then stop, it gets stupid after that
That was the original feel of the background. When he mixed the Cenobites and Harry D'Amour in 'Scarlett Gospels', Pinhead and the others served in hell and were in fact priests. Satan killed himself and hell was left to run itself, sort of an anarchy between hell priests, demons, etc. Their background evolved as Barker wrote more stories.
The first one was truly brilliant because you knew absolutely nothing about the cenobites, you can put your own mythology onto them. Everything after that was just gash. And not a gash of cenobites.
I like some aspects of this script. Lemarchand becoming Pinhead is interesting, it could work. Changing Pinheads look though I don't like. I dunno maybe it would look better than it does in my head. Most importantly though I think Pinhead being more overtly evil will actually detract from what originally make him so scary.
I would love to see a remake true to the Hellbound Heart. Frank's experience was so visceral. Like you were in the room with him. It would be cool to see what Frank had to go through to get his hands on the lament configuration. Or have the box in an exclusive bsdm club,where people would a lot of money to experience ultimate pleasure. The cenobites weren't meant to be mainstream monsters. That's the mistake the sequels after part 3 made. Take the story back to its erotic roots and it will be successful. Its 2018. If they can do 50 shades of grey,why not give hellraiser the justice it needs.
I prefer the leather 'Tom of Finland' look of the cenobites. When Clive Barker was creating 'The Hellbound Heart' he was going to gay BDSM clubs for 'research'. Its a shame that Hollywood ruined the Hellraiser franchise.
Intersectional Nail Head is born - to Netflix with him!!
Want something closer to Hellbound Heart tbh
Sam Witiwikii agreed, would be interring to see pin head as a chick.
Sam Witiwikii That would be cool if done right.
Again, great video! Nice insight of what could have been. I hope that in the near future you could get Clive Barker to do an interview where you can have your questions anwsered from the source!
There should be a way to reach him for it!
I prefer the orginal pinhead the ambiguity of what he was in the first two movies worked better then the evil monster he was turned into, I guess because it was orginal to see movie monsters who in the end weren't really evil or monsters or even really the bad guys in the movie. That said if this did end up being made I might still see it as it sounds like Clive is actually involved in the movie and I don't think he was involved much if at all after 2 or 3.
I wish Clive would make the scarlet gospels into a movie, the book is incredible! 😎
the Doctor in part 2 was a savage...loved him
Thanks for the update. I was just talking to someone about the project.
Like a number of other posters, I preferred the alternate dimension idea over a literal hellworld. Pinhead's dialogue in the first film was so ambiguous, it felt like cenobites could have been around since the time of ancient Egypt or earlier. I think it's the whole "explorers" line.
But it was Hellbound and Atkins work that tweaked the ideas just enough to change the concept into hell being a literal realm that one needs a key to enter. The rules became even more muddied as a way to find excuses for attack scenes, and the softening of Pinhead always felt like a make-good to Bradley. Then the biggest letdown; Leviathan the Evil Rubik's Cube. The saving grace for Hellbound is Ashley Laurence, by far.
While some of this is interesting, it sounds like Barker's taking things he currently finds interesting and trying to weave them into Hellraiser. I don't blame him as he never expected this one movie to define his career the way it has, but the boat has sailed. The best bet is a real reinvention. Drop the liturgical Hell and go for Lovecraft.
Dude your videos are NEVER wasted!!! I don't always comment but you seriously are one of the two RUclips channels I watch every single video of, the other being a monkey channel lol. But really I love the depth and thought you put into these. Your content type can't be beaten man, keep it up!!
If desire is what calls them, then having Pinhead and the Cenobites be completely evil seems a bit redundant. Id prefer them in their original unbiased form, neither good nor evil, but "exquisitely empty". Its the box operator that decides their fate, its the Cenobites and Pinhead who deliver the operator to the desired end, or atleast some end. Anybody who willingly opens the box seems to have knowledge of what it can do in the first place. Dualistic (good vs evil) narratives are worn out and boring, atleast for me. Is the movie about the box and the human condition? Or is the movie going to be just another monster film?
Glad this did not come out it was good back in the day and still good seeing it today great channel you got here look forward to next video
Mate, you have the perfect voice to do an Audiobook of Hellraiser!! 👍🏼🍻💸☺💯
Great vid, but a Meh pinhead. Making him pure evil is lazy design.
They want to make it soft and oh no cant say the truth as was as was correct make up some lie for new film as they always lie to public
There seems to be this push in Hollywood to shun any kind of ambiguity of morality lately. Hollywood apparently now hates movies with nuance and movies that don't beat you over the head with "bad guy bad, good guy good." Everything has to be morally black and white or otherwise the critics will read into things that aren't there and criticize the movie as literal endorsement for real-world depravity. Just look at the critical reception of Joker and how they twisted it every way they could possibly think of in order to try to get people to not watch it.
It's killing the movie industry. Modern movies are so bland and dumb and when something decent finally comes out, the media pans it before it's even released. I don't even blame Clive for these script decisions because I'm sure he realized that the movie wouldn't get made unless he made "bad guy bad." And yeah, I wouldn't really want to watch a movie based on that script.
Thank you this was a very cool video. I think this origin story idea sounds good and interesting and I would have loved to have seen this produced. Also I agree that the flap opening in his head to expose a vial with a stopper definitely doesn't fit as you said. To me it would make more sense to have the liquid drawn out of his jugular vein filling the syringe with black swirling blood from Pinhead. Kind of like the black swirling liquid in the large glass tube from John Carpenter's film Prince of Darkness. Those are my thoughts thanks again and I look forward to seeing your future videos on this Hellraiser script. Enjoy! 👍😎
Hell Yeah! Can't wait for these up-coming videos. I don't mind a remake as long as Clive is involved
I'd like to see it revived as a Netflix series.
Pinhead will become nail face guy. And rather than summoning chains from the shadows he shoots them out of a gun or something. 😂
Hell no. Not after how badly they butchered The Witcher. It was bad enough that they turned Fringila Black, (She's supposed to ressemble Yenne.) they practically turned the rest of the cast into non-Whites when Non-White characters already exist in The Witcher universe, The Ofieri. As usual SJWs act as if the Ofieri don't even exist just to make some dumb political point.
@@BoozeAholic eh, every studio puts out some bad stuff. Overall Netflix's stuff has been really good, not going to condemn them for one bad product.
No
omg yas
I'm sure someone else has observed this, but LeMarchand's Xipe Totec has qualities of the puzzle itself, pieces flipping open, nail buttons being pushed in for further access...
“Come To Daddy >:•D.”
I like the fact he was a force of nature in the original film. Not evil, not good, just a thing that exists. The leather uniforms are iconic at this point. If they would have made Curstie (or however you spell her name) the new priest like closer to the short story, then that would have been cool.
I like the idea of him being the box maker, it really gives a lot to the Bloodlines movie which i really liked. I would love to see more of the comic series he made from the first film where Kirsty eventually takes Pinhead's place and seeks to destroy him for slaughtering, then turning all her friends into cenobites.
Great video, would’ve loved to see this movie. Just wondering where you found the script?
In cannon there were several implied things. One was the possibility of more than one pinheads. The other was that when one Pinhead was killed a new one replaces it.
Good vid. Youre very classy guy Mr H.
Great video
Nice opening H.
I really like the music you using in this video.
So Clive Barker turned Pinhead from an ambiguous fascinating character into a generic mindless horror movie killer!?
Also Pinhead having a forehead flap that dispenses Horror Movie Goo (like a PEZ dispenser) is something straight out of a Scary Movie-esque parody film.
It really is true that artists create their best work at the start of their careers and they slowly descend into mediocrity as they age.
Clive Barker went from "The Cenobites are impartial observers who only care about people fulfilling their "agreement" with the box!" ... to "Cenobites are Evil! ...because they're the Bad Guys in the movie!".
What an absolute waste of time and a complete squandering of a fascinating premise!
"Horror Movie Goo Pez dispenser"?!
😂😂😂😂
You sir, win the internet.
This other pinhead is pretty interesting.
Can we got a mr hate reviews of a Hellraiser movie?
He did Hell on Earth if you want to check that out. Pretty fair review I remember.
Well done. Thank you sir.
I think what hobbled the sequels the most was the fact most people went to them to see Pinhead while the character himself was initially passive. That made his transition to active antagonist a little awkward. Reworking his origin so that he has some kind of motive we can wrap our head around was probably the only way forward. Bit of a shame this movie isn't likely to go anywhere.
I mean I wish the old version of the Cenobites could be explored more, but I like this as a new take on it as well, and the fact it starts from the beginning makes it easier to get into as it's clearly not just changing him from what he was and making him start as something else, while also opening up the idea of other boxes being created at some point.
As far as the Cenobites are concerned there’s nothing evil or good about them nor their dimension. It is merely the ultimate fundamental reaches of experience. Sadomasochism and suffering and joy all fall in on themselves to eternity.
This is interesting, and based on what I've read in The Scarlet Gospels and some of his other work, fairly consistent with Clive Barker's modern view of "Hell" as an element in his work.
In the 80's he was pretty ambiguous as to the nature of the Cenobites and their actual status in the good/evil divide, whereas nowadays he tends to write Demons and Cenobites as more pure evil characters and writes Hell as something closer to Bosch's depictions, with a touch of William Blake tossed in.
Great content.
I don't know....I did appreciate in the old movies how Pinhead was not Chaotic Evil,but maybe described as "Lawful" Evil. Perhaps if it where to follow the raise of a different Cenobite that would one day come to be at odds with Pinhead. "Hellraiser: Civil War"
Since whatever Angelique was, she certainly didn't start off as a Cenobite. And Pindhead did say "Hell has become much more ordered since your time. And much less Amusing." I mean if anything needed a re-write it was the "Cenobites....IN SPACE!"
I like this idea. It's sad that this movie may never get made, but it's still cool to think of what may have been.
I think there is more than one Pinhead in the hell universe, and that to be a Pinhead is to be like a general or commander in hell with his own cenobites being his own customized lieutenants. This would make it plausible for Barker's original and new versions of Pinhead plus Tunnicliffes Pinhead to co-exist in the hell universe.
LOVE the twist of LeMarchand as Pinhead. The main reason I love Bloodline (part 4) is because it details the horrors inflicted upon LeMarchand and generations of his family as punishment for creating the box.
I find it strange that Clive Barker went for a human origin for the cenobites as he stated in a foreword to the original comics that he didn't like this revelation in the second film. He carried this through to The Scarlet Gospels which explicitly states that the Cenobites are in fact eternal, they have always been there, so for him to give them a human origin in this script is a pretty big departure for him...
The scarlet gospels would be wonderful as a series. It would be really good. The book was pretty good. I would love to see it come to life and show the depths of what pinhead really can be.
Ericka Gibson
Very neat story. Creative... But the dialogue was overblown at times and the "comedy" a bit gratuitous
@ajt222 you know what good point. I love his older works so much more. What bothered me was when it said he assaulted the blind lady. That's not in his character at all.
I honestly thought the gospels was Barker burying the character. As if he knew he could never get the character back, so he blew up the whole "universe" so to kill any interest.
Cenobites weren't about the afterlife. They could keep you alive forever in their realm and use you as seen fit. I remember when Kirsty was looking for her father in the labyrinth, she comes across Frank who asked her if she got his message. She says she's looking for her father , but Frank just says " Grow up Kirsty. When you're dead, you're fucking dead!" Stating that he had already killed him in the attic of the house on 55 Ludovico strt.
I would have kept Pin head neutral, only dealing with those who wanted the box. More like a force rather then a threat. And as I said a bit ago I would make Pin head more female like, either having a male voice dub over or have Pin head just not talk at all. Pin head could have been a demon from the start, a fallen angel that now sees pain as a new form of cleansing. Pin head not be a Cenobite, as it would be as I said a fallen angel, as pin head would have ripped off its own wings and sliced up its own head among other things to fully express its desire for pain. But pin head would create cenobites from humans both willing and the dead, with living humans being more powerful and the dead being more like drones that fully orders.
And I would change the story a lot too. With in the world the box would be spoken about having the ability to bestow immortality on those who open the box. Of course the main villain would not be pin head, but as in the first movie, some one who escaped hell. While he himself was immortal, he was not really into being torn apart, cause he did not want to give up his humanity, meaning he still had earthly desires which were not, good. Like in the first movie he needed blood and flesh to restore himself, with the help of the woman. Of course when he was strong enough he went off and had his own fun, with help of the wife, he would go on a violent rampage doing more then just killing to his victims, ending with him draining their blood.
Pin head would of course be told of the escape and bring with him his Cenobites and drones to hunt the man down. Granted the Cenobites do not have Pin heads moral compass of being neutral and would deal with people who seen to much.
So yes in the end the man and the woman would be dragged to hell, and Pin head would offer the girl who told it about the man who escaped, immortality, to experience a new world of pleasure she never even dreamed of. Of course if she refused, well she did see to much and would need to be dealt with.
And she would run from them as she undid the box, resetting it and pulling Pin head and the Cenobites back into hell.
A Female Pinhead? Fuck outta here with that shit.
Your going all Goodbye Horses with this one son.
@Hannibal Hyde No not at all, I was basing it off of the book which had Pinhead neither male or female. Not trying to do the whole "we need more women in movies" thing.
@@m.jmarni8279 What does that mean? I am curious to know
Hastur King 👑 please I never meant too offend, I was quoting the song that played in the background while Buffalo Bill did his thing in the mirror on another film called Silence of the Lambs.I trust that you have watched it that is all. And if you haven’t you should because it is very well acted and very disturbing. 👍🏻
While I love the original Pinhead, this one seems somewhat interesting. Hope to see more of these videos, thanks Mr. H!!!!!
I enjoyed the original books characterization of the cenobites, since pinhead wasn’t actually in that, the female cenobite with pins isn’t named, and like a lot of Clive’s work they were relatively indifferent to the interactions with humans. The movies and further books painted pinhead as a slasher movie villain and a creature seeking to usurp satan. What’s one more iteration of a character, that might be an interesting revival for the series.
:-( I clicked on this video expecting to hear when the new Pinhead/Hellraiser would be hitting theaters, but just hearing the script is bittersweet (The new script does sound pretty awesome).
Uhm, the first two movies are master pieces. If Clive Barker wants to do more movies in this area then he should start from scratch. I like the idea of a new puzzle maker making the puzzle box and have it create a new priest or new pin head. Depending how the fans like it then what he could do is tie in the original pin head from the original movies to the new pin head and have a show down because you can only have one priest of Hell. Of course you would need a good story and characters and dedicated actors who would want to be in the future installments. I think there is room to start something new and not lose yourself in the process.
I wish we could get this movie. Despite the diminishing quality pinhead has always been one of my very favorite antagonists
I usually hate re-imaginings of horror classics like this, but I kind of like this better. This origin makes sense given a certain punishment for creating the box. I like it. Too bad we may never get it.
I'd love to see this come to the big screen
Really would like to see that movie!
You have such sights to show us.
I did not like this incarnation as much.
Love the Hellraiser videos. Keep it up man! I personally hate evil Pinhead. I love the meticulous, neutral version. It leaves the narrative open for many different heroes and villains.
Yes another hellraiser vid
Great vid as always sir! Not related to Hellraiser but have you read the reactions to hellboys test screening? It’s a bit depressing. Keep up the great work man
not seen that! link?
Mr H Reviews sorry for not getting back to you about it but it seems you found it! Quick on the upload too! Cheers mate
Just a suggestion. Great channel. I would love it if you could do videos at least occasionally that are full spoilers.
I give spoiler warnings where it's relevant
@@MrHReviews oh I think you may have misunderstood me. I would love it if you did spoilers. I loved the one you did the other day for " The Super " I prefer spoilers. I know not everyone is down with it. The spoiler ones are some of your best work. Imo. Great work. Especially your take on horror movies.
Having Marchant become Pinhead does make more sense as it gives it a beginning vs. Canon where we are lead to believe that Pinhead just "showed up/was made" during the war and took over hell, which makes one wonder what happened before Pinhead? The box having been around since it was made by Marchant, leaves one to question why Angelic would obey Pinhead as she was obviously around a lot longer than Pinhead? I think it leaves less questions with a more solid beginning for Pinhead vs. Pinhead is made and now he is the box persona. HOWEVER before any new Hellraiser gets made Doug Bradley HAS TO BE SIGNED ON TO BE PINHEAD or NO MOVIE.
I don’t really care for the head flap part or the white robes but making him mare masochistic would be a good change but they do need to keep the leather and Chan’s that’s what gave it such a big fan base in the first place.
Oooh! I love leather and Chan!
This new origin was painful to sit through. One of the most frightening aspects of the original was the amount of unknown details. Seeing a hot smoldering hammer hit nails into Pinhead’s skull without seeing what swung it was terrifying because it forced you to use your imagination and thus added to the horror. The more details given, the lesser the impact.
Hellraiser II is still the all-time favorite.
Hellraiser is one of the only franchises I would super love to see a well done, hard R, at least moderatly budgeted reboot.
I love the original idea of pinhead and his origins explained in the first two movies, and some in the third. Changing it up to where he's just evil and kills everyone, that's pretty much changing everything that made pinhead original. Originally, the box had multiple combinations. And however you completed the puzzle, you could potentially open up a different realm the box was linked to. And pinhead was not essentially an evil demon, even though his pleasure was to make other people suffer. He was a masochist dominatrix type of otherworldly being. and like he said, he's a demon to some and an angel to others because some people love being tied down and put through severe torture without effectively killing you. And those other realms seemingly recruited all the souls it could get ahold of to it's own particular cause. See, those first three movies set up endless possibilities to emphasize on those other realms and what all the box was capable of and what the other cenobytes were capable of. But the third one was already starting to take a nose dive into what the rest of them did, which was flipflopping into cheap two bit flicks. So yeah I hate the new idea, cause it just sounds so rehashed. Using vines instead of chains makes him no different than swamp thing or the trees off of evil dead. And a white robe removes his menacing look, so it's all bad to me
Pinhead from Scarlet Gospels IS Pinhead....white robes...no chains?
*shrugs* Barker is pretty unique, I'm down to watch basically anything he makes.
It's really interesting that he's Lemarchand in this story, but I'm disappointed that Pinhead is just evil. The thing that makes Hellraiser most interesting to me is that in the original Pinhead was not evil, he was just there to give you "want". Anything where Pinhead is just evil will be subpar to a story where he has "such sights to show you" because you summoned him on your own search for the extents of human experience.
Hard to say if would of be good or bad. But would of been good to see
Not sure how this will go but I'll watch and see how it goes. I mean I had heard about the warden in another book but it's interesting to see it come up.
It isn't being made
You D-Man Mr H !!!
I love the Hellraiser Mythos- excluding the movies after #2- I haven’t seen the one with the auditor character yet, though. I very much enjoyed the original novella, and the more recent “The Scarlet Gospels”- in fact, I’m currently on my third time reading it as I type this. I even enjoyed the “Jihad” comic books when they came out (I was in High School then, and was devouring all the Clive Barker I could)- it seemed like combining two of my favorite Barker tales into one new story would be really cool, that being the Hellraiser and Nightbreed stories, if anyone’s not familiar with them. So, I don’t really have any problems with injecting new ideas into the older tales- as long as it doesn’t erase what came before- though even if it does, it doesn’t stop me from enjoying it as a “what if?” type story. That said- I’m not a huge fan of the head-flap syringe port in Pinhead’s ... head, or his white robes- but it’s still a really interesting take on the whole thing. I’m okay with him being Lemarchand- it gives him a much more concrete connection to the box that way- and really, I would just be interested to see all of the changes. So please- keep up with the, well, not NEWS, exactly, but news to us, about this “one that got away”. I, for one, would love to see more. I’d love to read the entire script! And thanks for sharing all of this with us- I haven’t heard ANY of this material before- good job getting your hands on it!
I always loved The hell priest and his centobites being “Demons to some and Angels to Others”. They weren’t inherently evil they just did their duty and that made them even more frightening to me. I had some affection for the soldier origin for pinhead (perhaps if this is ever made they’ll give that backstory to another centobite like the chatterer) but I do like them streamlining the story with giving him the LeMerchant backstory. Perhaps with Clive barker returning to the series it will get back to its original glory.
Sounds quite interesting
Clive Barker first embraced the Pinhead moniker for this character in The Scarlet Gospels, if I'm not mistaken.
He used it as a way to show his disdain, When the character was called pinhead he murdered and mutilated the person
Sounds like they’ve merged Pinhead from #1 with the Chanard Cenobite from #2 (that hospital scene sounds like the original script for #2).
Only Doug Bradley can play Pinhead
I guess it could be cool. There just aren't enough ideas about the story in this video to make a fully informed decision about what the movie would be like, such as still shots of what the new Hell Priest would look like or his Gash of Cenobytes.
i liked the idea from Bloodlines where the creator of the box and his bloodline were the only one(s) capable of destroying it. Bloodlines could have been better but i liked the idea behind it. i suppose if they went ahead with the new story they could do the same where the creator had already passed on his bloodline before the box claimed him. could have been an interested face off between family
*Cool idea* ! I like the concept, Yet an incarnation of THE Pinhead without the *chains and hooks* sounds like a "pretty evil* , albeit *less threatening* dude.
He makes *vines grow* ? Cool, hes causing vines to grow around him. Yes these *vines* are " *hellvines* " if you will, but not *chains with hooks at the ends* . They're some kind of *simple life from the Cenobite realm* ? These *vines* could possibly be *carriers for some demonic energy* maybe? Maybe they spread some kind of *plague* , or produce a bïo-weapon that would *turn everyone into Cenobites* or something. I still like, & prefer the *chains* that make your *suffering LEGENDARY even in HELL* !
I would LOVE to see a Hellraiser Movie entitled Hellraiser : High Priest or Hell Priest.
This is what I thought the series would be like in the beginning. I recently watched all of the movies. Watching the very first film, I wanted to see the box maker more involved. I really envisioned the toy maker being pin head. Even the second and into the third film I expected to see the box maker. I also hoped there would be an explanation for the multiple boxes. What if there was a different way to open the box?
Watch Hellraiser Bloodline or read the Hellraiser graphic novels by Epic.
French toymaker Philip LeMerchant, made the Lament Configuration (The Box) for a magician.
I kinda like this new origin. I need to get hold of this sript.
I love everything "Hellraiser" ... To believe that hell would be a place of one dimension... Would be notoriously naive... Give me all versions... I'm hungry for more sweet suffering...
It's ok. They should combine his elements from the first with this. I like the origin change. I want the box to be different. In the Movies the Box is Iconic also so make it do different things or react differently to certain people.
Okay I hope it does become a real thing I'd love to see it.
Phillipe had love in him that over comes evil. Silly beginning. Pin head himself couldn't stand the light of love you see in Bloodlines.
Pinhead's never really been the problem, it's always the usually shit characters and storylines crafted around him.
I prefer this origin, but what a new movie would really need is some real money and decent actors/script writers behind it. The first two were good movies, all the rest were just burning trash that had no build up and just went into weirdness almost immediately. They just need to let barker write the story and then have a good team adapt it for the screen, while also looking to barker to give his opinions on the aesthetics of the characters/hell (if it is featured).
D Cog
Thank you for your video Mr. H. I watched your previous one on this topic as well. Excellent as usual.
Unfortunately, it sounds like Clive’s approach to this film would have been to remove all nuance (which is what I found compelling about the series in the first place).
There was an internal logic to the way that the cenobites operated (in the 80’s films) rather than just being two dimensional, “evil” monsters. They weren’t sadists (instead, “explorers” in the outer reaches of sensation) They could be reasoned with. Their dialogue was even civil in many cases... “No tears, PLEASE...” Not exactly the behavior common to monster tropes, and that was a good thing.
Then there was the Labyrinth and Leviathan which were concepts far more unique than the tired Christian portrayal of “Hell” that shapes 99% of horror films. I’ve always been disappointed that Leviathan/Labyrinth were basically abandoned from the third film onwards and that the origin of the Lament configuration/cenobites start in the 1700’s. What a missed opportunity.
Infinitely more interesting would be an approach tied into devotion to a religious order lost to history... ancient and forgotten. While he can certainly be criticized, Lovecraft understood that it’s the unknown that is truly frightening. The familiar loses that power. Once the things that slither in the dark are given names and dragged into the light, they become a known quantity. A shame.
Even if the creative choice is made to visually reveal things, they can still remain unsettling if the audience proxy is uncertain whether what they are seeing is real, imagined or even happening (The unreliable narrator). Just look at a film like JACOB’s LADDER.
The potential for this serious is vast. But you have to trust in your audience not being morons. And you have to avoid the low hanging fruit of pointless gore and jump scares.
The first two films were great because everything was done with a purpose instead of for it’s own sake. To do otherwise is “a waste of good suffering.”
Conan 1812 Thank you!
There are some interesting ideas in the script like the beginning scene on Devil's Island which is really cool to me because I assume it's the same Devil's Island that the prisoner 'Papillon' was sent too in French Guiana which makes for an awesome location for the films beggining. I loved Hellraiser: Bloodlines because of the stuff with Lemarchand so I would be excited to see how this beginning sequence would look. Unfortunately I think that the rest of the changes are too far astray from what the essence of Pinhead is supposed to be. To me he is neither good nor evil. People have a choice to open the box in his mind anyway. He is the gatekeeper, and the enforcer who Carry's out the will of the box/Labyrinth. The original novela/film portrayed the hell priest Perfectly. Im all for changing some of the other elements of the film but the Hell priest and the other Cenibytes should have the same overall concept of the the Original story. Changing Eliot Spencer to Lemarchand actually works well but the rest of the changes are really bizzare continuity wise. Anyway thanks for the fantastic video as always. I watch every one of your videos, they are fantastic 😈
If Clive Barker were to remake Hellraiser I'd be all for it.
I like the first go from that
We need a prequel featuring the Capt. Spencer.
Don't care that much for it. I think if Lamarchant became something else entirely would be better. Like The Guardian. Or a new rendition of The Engineer would make more sense. At that point the phantasm juicebox head thingy would prob work better along with him creating cenobites by hand.