I just adore John's lectures, I think they're extremely informative, critically refined and very nuanced. In one word: brilliant! He deserved a much longer applause at the end. 👌👏
I'm so grateful you covered this (and a bit addicted to all of the lectures - I close every night with one) and found the tying in of contemporary individual spiritualism + appropriation + the full breadth of historical development before illuminating and relevant. Thank you so much for creating, compiling, sharing -- all the work that goes into the making of these deeply important lectures! I am certain it requires a lot, and am learning to express my appreciation "aloud".
Now listening to the comments at the end: (1:25:02) Blavatsky was a big (accidental) influence on me in early years of escape from religiousity wo connection (exvangelical) and though I love (quoting from memory so possibly off) "If a man would swim, he must enter the deep water; if a bird would fly, it must have wings that are grown, and space before it, and courage to trust itself to the air; if a man would wield a two-edged sword, he must first be a thorough master of the craft, lest he injure himself, or worse, others, in the process." (Blavatsky, citation incomplete). // these words are guiding forces in my life, and I think of them often -- yet I have wrestled with Blavatsky's appropriation as well as the many other forms I see around me. And though there is, undoubtably, great wisdom, was it stolen or shared incomplete? How much is the science actually there? What I have found from my perusings of the interwebs has left me uncertain and in query.
John, you have a great participatory group. People often bring up good points. Get in touch with Justin Sledge of the Detroit based esoterica channel. You’d appreciate one another. Like you, he does his homework before giving a presentation. Kudos to both of you.
I was also thinking of Madame Blavatsy and the Theosophical Society (British based) which drew on Western mysticism, Neoplatonism, Kabbala, religious monism, and communication with the spirit world. Also the embrace of the ancient tradition in India of Guru's. Authentic Gurus transmit their realized state and have done for tens of thousands of years.
Thank you, great presentation. But well, today's reality shows that we are all caught in a strong network of economy with many important connections towards many directions and all of those are important for the welfare of all of us and the welfare of every single individual especially. That's the new and really important spirituality of today's time - does it work? am I doing a great job? how can I get more money? when does delivery arrive? - and everything else is of minor importance and just a nice hobby-horse.
I have come to the conclusion that Jesus taught that we are spiritual beings having mortal experiences,not mortal beings having spiritual experiences. Recognizing this frees us from the world and gives us new eyes...more life not less as we might suppose
I get so much from your presentations. I especially enjoyed this one, but I especially enjoy most of the many I have watched. Your organization and research/knowledge is outstanding and you are able to impart information and take questions with humility and in an apparent unbiased manner. Thank you. I cannot contribute financially yet, but hope to be enjoying these lectures still when I can. It seems you found your niche there in Canada.
John Hammer thanks for your fantastic lecture. My go to bible is the inspired version I would appreciate it if you could do a review on it. I dont hear much about it thanks for all you do.
It is all in the words we use and do not use "Tradition" imagine if we followed the commandments of the Lord God, but we do not, so instead, we follow tradition and have wars.
You seem to be saying that spirituality is supernatural. I think spirituality is natural, and that science will eventually catch up. I would rather study science to get to spirituality than to cling to ancient traditions that are no longer relevant to an evolved universe. But I appreciate your effort. Thanks.
I'm afraid you're wrong about what spirituality is ..in short it's all about how to "know thyself" how to experience directly who you truly are while still alive..
Interesting in an academic sense... unfortunately most people use words without giving ANY thought to their meaning....10 definitions of spirituality is somewhat broad to convey what each individual means without indepth discussion..... I have asked people what they mean by spirituality and it is usually accompanied by a blank stare.....same with religion.. no real thought, only what has been taught... by illustration a wonderful caring lady ( catholic) sent a text the other month praising the lord that a typhoon didnt hit directly in a certain wealthy area... an educated but similarly religious man text to remind her that the typhoon would hit poorer communities south of a city so was that the lord also?.... for me, it was a typical use of religious indoctrination without thought to either meaning or consequence... praise the good but ignore the ugly... ever seen stupid footballers praise the lord when they score, but no cursing the lord when they screw up ? the same difference!
Worshipping saints or using them is just as equal to worshiping gods. Lots of Christians don't realize they are Pagan especially while they do a lot of the same rituals or holidays pagans do. If you tell them that they cover their ears. Christians and Catholics who do this don't look like they are in belief of one god. That's why Judaism or Judaic religions hold more credibility. Just my opinion.
Pagan is a often used as a derogatory term. I think it’s more accurate to call them polytheists or henotheists. God being 3 entities would be polytheistic if you worship them all. If they consider god only one entity but believe in the devil or angels then they’re henotheistic because the devil is an evil god and angels are demigods. The holidays Christmas has pagan origins but that doesn’t make it a pagan ritual any more than a Chevy Impala is an African car. Christmas, is a Christian holiday, a secular holiday, and it could be argued that it’s also a pagan holiday, but it’s not solely pagan. I would argue that Christmas is no pagan, because if you’re pagan, you’re not calling it Christmas, you’re calling the holiday Saturnalia. Although there are overlaps in traditions/rituals context matters.
Judaism has no more credibility than Christianity does. In fact I would argue that it’s on similarly mythical ground. Historical, scientific, and archeological evidence shows that much of the Torah/Pentateuch is false. From genesis to exodus, Daniel and Joshua, etc. there’s so much that can be proven to be false. So what do you have? An anonymously written, factually inaccurate, compilation of Iron Age supernatural beliefs and propaganda.
42:10 the question just made imposes our modern view of the world on the antiquated world. Who knows if spirituality came about to help people reconcile the presence of God or divine influences in their lives? Modernly, we live abstract lives full of neurosis and conditioned delusions. People are ignorant of what their bodies, hearts and minds seek above all other things.
Spirituality is individual between "You and God". Religion is mankind's attempt to institutionalize, dogmatize, even control that Spiritual growth and understanding. Everyone needs to be religious: form a relationship with God, whether a Religion or Spiritual.
You probably haven't gotten to this subject about mysticism yet but I wanted to point out that "thinking about wanting something and getting it right away" isn't exactly what manifestation actually is. If you watch The Secret it's actually beyond assuming you'll win the lottery and just getting it. Some times not in the literal sense. Yes it is a coincidence but it being a coincidence that you thought about a new car and suddenly aquiring one from a relative who had no use for it also doesn't mean you didn't manifest it. Some times there requires action. Some times it requires prayer. Prayer is a form of manifesting. You pray you get the job and you work hard and you get the job or a job opening suddenly becomes available. It's not rocket science and it's not magic. People who make a mockery about manifestation like it's a dangerous thing don't even realize they are doing just that making them hypocrites. You're welcome.
I also wanted to add that prayers or asking "the universe" for needs and wants has worked very very well for me. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's debunked. That's just being butthurt that you don't know how to be totally greatful for what you have. You need to be greatful and focus on making the world a better place instead of "what's in it for me?" That's a surefire way of getting exactly what you DONT want. You further get butthurt and then tell everyone what a fraud manifestation is. It's a skill you need to learn and it's not meant to be easy. Things do not come to you over night. Not all the time. You need patience and that's what the world lacks right now. Everyone wants instant gratification. It doesn't work that way. So if you think the law of attraction or PRAYER doesnt work, maybe you should work on your attitude and realize people around you aren't the problem and take responsibility for how you approach life?
May i suggest those of you advocating prayer consider the 5.2 million children under the age of 5 that die EVERY YEAR ( thats almost 600 and hour )... dont you think some of their parents prayed for their childrens lives?... religious nonsense that can take hours of intellectual debate ( usually wothout reoultion ).. as to The Secret ?.. blatant american upper class marketing drivel for the gullible...
@@TheStonedPriestess I don't think that prayer doesn't work, I know it doesn't. Prayer studies conducted by a Christian from Harvard University showed that the people that were prayed for actually had worst outcomes and the people who were not prayed for. The study has been conducted a number of times since and every time it shows the same outcome, prayer does not work. On that basis I can confidently claim that the notion of prayer has been debunked.
I just adore John's lectures, I think they're extremely informative, critically refined and very nuanced. In one word: brilliant! He deserved a much longer applause at the end. 👌👏
Thanks so much John. Fascinating as always. Historical context is just gold. Much appreciated.
It's Alfred E Newman!
Your looking well John, another great lecture, thanks
I'm so grateful you covered this (and a bit addicted to all of the lectures - I close every night with one) and found the tying in of contemporary individual spiritualism + appropriation + the full breadth of historical development before illuminating and relevant. Thank you so much for creating, compiling, sharing -- all the work that goes into the making of these deeply important lectures! I am certain it requires a lot, and am learning to express my appreciation "aloud".
Now listening to the comments at the end: (1:25:02) Blavatsky was a big (accidental) influence on me in early years of escape from religiousity wo connection (exvangelical) and though I love (quoting from memory so possibly off) "If a man would swim, he must enter the deep water; if a bird would fly, it must have wings that are grown, and space before it, and courage to trust itself to the air; if a man would wield a two-edged sword, he must first be a thorough master of the craft, lest he injure himself, or worse, others, in the process." (Blavatsky, citation incomplete). // these words are guiding forces in my life, and I think of them often -- yet I have wrestled with Blavatsky's appropriation as well as the many other forms I see around me. And though there is, undoubtably, great wisdom, was it stolen or shared incomplete? How much is the science actually there? What I have found from my perusings of the interwebs has left me uncertain and in query.
John, you have a great participatory group. People often bring up good points. Get in touch with Justin Sledge of the Detroit based esoterica channel. You’d appreciate one another. Like you, he does his homework before giving a presentation. Kudos to both of you.
John, I enjoy your lectures. How about one on the Ark of the Covenant / history / theories?
Splendid lecture 👏
I 💕 luv you teachings thank you!! Lala
Rock on, Centre Place! I'm gonna make a donation. Love y'all! - Fan from Texas
I was also thinking of Madame Blavatsy and the Theosophical Society (British based) which drew on Western mysticism, Neoplatonism, Kabbala, religious monism, and communication with the spirit world.
Also the embrace of the ancient tradition in India of Guru's. Authentic Gurus transmit their realized state and have done for tens of thousands of years.
Blessed Be!
Thank you for the lecture.
I went from being curious to loving this.
Thank you.
Thank you, great presentation. But well, today's reality shows that we are all caught in a strong network of economy with many important connections towards many directions and all of those are important for the welfare of all of us and the welfare of every single individual especially. That's the new and really important spirituality of today's time - does it work? am I doing a great job? how can I get more money? when does delivery arrive? - and everything else is of minor importance and just a nice hobby-horse.
I have come to the conclusion that Jesus taught that we are spiritual beings having mortal experiences,not mortal beings having spiritual experiences. Recognizing this frees us from the world and gives us new eyes...more life not less as we might suppose
I get so much from your presentations. I especially enjoyed this one, but I especially enjoy most of the many I have watched. Your organization and research/knowledge is outstanding and you are able to impart information and take questions with humility and in an apparent unbiased manner. Thank you. I cannot contribute financially yet, but hope to be enjoying these lectures still when I can. It seems you found your niche there in Canada.
John Hammer thanks for your fantastic lecture. My go to bible is the inspired version I would appreciate it if you could do a review on it. I dont hear much about it thanks for all you do.
Thanks for the lectures
My wise grandmother used to tell me to stop hitting her.
It is all in the words we use and do not use "Tradition" imagine if we followed the commandments of the Lord God, but we do not, so instead, we follow tradition and have wars.
You seem to be saying that spirituality is supernatural. I think spirituality is natural, and that science will eventually catch up. I would rather study science to get to spirituality than to cling to ancient traditions that are no longer relevant to an evolved universe. But I appreciate your effort. Thanks.
Spirituality is the quality of spirit and soul.
I dig the "tripod" sheep XD
I'm afraid you're wrong about what spirituality is ..in short it's all about how to "know thyself" how to experience directly who you truly are while still alive..
YHWH ( Spirit & Truth )
Interesting in an academic sense... unfortunately most people use words without giving ANY thought to their meaning....10 definitions of spirituality is somewhat broad to convey what each individual means without indepth discussion..... I have asked people what they mean by spirituality and it is usually accompanied by a blank stare.....same with religion.. no real thought, only what has been taught... by illustration a wonderful caring lady ( catholic) sent a text the other month praising the lord that a typhoon didnt hit directly in a certain wealthy area... an educated but similarly religious man text to remind her that the typhoon would hit poorer communities south of a city so was that the lord also?.... for me, it was a typical use of religious indoctrination without thought to either meaning or consequence... praise the good but ignore the ugly... ever seen stupid footballers praise the lord when they score, but no cursing the lord when they screw up ? the same difference!
Then again, most people can't define music or language.
❤️🇺🇲✡️✝️🕉️☸️🇺🇲❤️
Worshipping saints or using them is just as equal to worshiping gods. Lots of Christians don't realize they are Pagan especially while they do a lot of the same rituals or holidays pagans do. If you tell them that they cover their ears. Christians and Catholics who do this don't look like they are in belief of one god. That's why Judaism or Judaic religions hold more credibility. Just my opinion.
Pagan is a often used as a derogatory term. I think it’s more accurate to call them polytheists or henotheists.
God being 3 entities would be polytheistic if you worship them all. If they consider god only one entity but believe in the devil or angels then they’re henotheistic because the devil is an evil god and angels are demigods.
The holidays Christmas has pagan origins but that doesn’t make it a pagan ritual any more than a Chevy Impala is an African car. Christmas, is a Christian holiday, a secular holiday, and it could be argued that it’s also a pagan holiday, but it’s not solely pagan. I would argue that Christmas is no pagan, because if you’re pagan, you’re not calling it Christmas, you’re calling the holiday Saturnalia. Although there are overlaps in traditions/rituals context matters.
Judaism has no more credibility than Christianity does. In fact I would argue that it’s on similarly mythical ground.
Historical, scientific, and archeological evidence shows that much of the Torah/Pentateuch is false. From genesis to exodus, Daniel and Joshua, etc. there’s so much that can be proven to be false. So what do you have? An anonymously written, factually inaccurate, compilation of Iron Age supernatural beliefs and propaganda.
@@friendo6257 well stated....
@@friendo6257 I strongly agree with your analysis. All of the abrahamic beliefs are violent nonsense.
@@kidslovesatan34 all of the Abrahamic beliefs? I hope your hyperbole was intentional.
42:10 the question just made imposes our modern view of the world on the antiquated world. Who knows if spirituality came about to help people reconcile the presence of God or divine influences in their lives? Modernly, we live abstract lives full of neurosis and conditioned delusions. People are ignorant of what their bodies, hearts and minds seek above all other things.
The image in your thumbnail looks like a vision I had.
Go on…
Spirituality is individual between "You and God". Religion is mankind's attempt to institutionalize, dogmatize, even control that Spiritual growth and understanding. Everyone needs to be religious: form a relationship with God, whether a Religion or Spiritual.
You probably haven't gotten to this subject about mysticism yet but I wanted to point out that "thinking about wanting something and getting it right away" isn't exactly what manifestation actually is. If you watch The Secret it's actually beyond assuming you'll win the lottery and just getting it. Some times not in the literal sense. Yes it is a coincidence but it being a coincidence that you thought about a new car and suddenly aquiring one from a relative who had no use for it also doesn't mean you didn't manifest it. Some times there requires action. Some times it requires prayer. Prayer is a form of manifesting. You pray you get the job and you work hard and you get the job or a job opening suddenly becomes available. It's not rocket science and it's not magic. People who make a mockery about manifestation like it's a dangerous thing don't even realize they are doing just that making them hypocrites. You're welcome.
I also wanted to add that prayers or asking "the universe" for needs and wants has worked very very well for me. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's debunked. That's just being butthurt that you don't know how to be totally greatful for what you have. You need to be greatful and focus on making the world a better place instead of "what's in it for me?" That's a surefire way of getting exactly what you DONT want. You further get butthurt and then tell everyone what a fraud manifestation is. It's a skill you need to learn and it's not meant to be easy. Things do not come to you over night. Not all the time. You need patience and that's what the world lacks right now. Everyone wants instant gratification. It doesn't work that way. So if you think the law of attraction or PRAYER doesnt work, maybe you should work on your attitude and realize people around you aren't the problem and take responsibility for how you approach life?
May i suggest those of you advocating prayer consider the 5.2 million children under the age of 5 that die EVERY YEAR ( thats almost 600 and hour )... dont you think some of their parents prayed for their childrens lives?... religious nonsense that can take hours of intellectual debate ( usually wothout reoultion ).. as to The Secret ?.. blatant american upper class marketing drivel for the gullible...
@@TheStonedPriestess I don't think that prayer doesn't work, I know it doesn't.
Prayer studies conducted by a Christian from Harvard University showed that the people that were prayed for actually had worst outcomes and the people who were not prayed for. The study has been conducted a number of times since and every time it shows the same outcome, prayer does not work. On that basis I can confidently claim that the notion of prayer has been debunked.