I love that these lectures are live streamed now. The live audience asked great questions but tended to interrupt. A lot. Like a lot lot. John is such a great presenter with pretty thorough research. I appreciate that he can make his way through the material uninterrupted.
I missed the live stream, but I will watch this for sure. John Hamer gives great talks, with so much knowledge and insight into these very interesting topics. Thanks Centre Place for making these great lectures freely available.
This was one of the first live steams I was able to interact with, and I must say, with so many places being toxic and degrading of folks, the people on this site were very mature and considerate, even when in total disagreement. It is most enjoyable to have a place to discuss heated issues while still being respectful of one another. KUDOS! For those who asked but I had to leave, we are moving from something to a whole lot of nothing since the force that expands accounts for 70% and that which combineds/contracts is 30%...so the universe is moving towards a whole lot of nothing as the expansion pushes all things apart stronger than will be their ability to pull themselves together. Moreover the concepts of something and nothing are more profound than folks often like to make of them. And why is there something rather than nothing? So far my favorite answer is simply: nothing is less stable than something. In other words nothing is often popping in and out particles of something in pairs of opposite particles than near instantly annihilate each other, but once in a while, due to other forces acting upon them, one of those particles escapes the annihilation long enough to interact with the HB field and poof, something appears right out of nothing all the time. It's a concept not too dissimilar from life and death, so it shouldn't be too foreign to consider, only that with the latter many attach an eneffeable soul to. So, consider nothing as the flip side of the coin that has something on its face. Yes, that's overly simplistic, but hopefully may help to remove some the the negative connotations or conceptions attached to the state of "nothing." Now let's get a little to the edge of physics and consider that universes may already be popping into existence only while they appear to be expanding from their point of view, from our point view, that of our rate of expansion, may look they are shrinking relative to us, or that perhaps certain black holes spawn new universes, what then shall the intelligent life forms of those universes believe, that their universe came from nothing or a Deity of some kind? Well certainly not nothing, but perhaps not needing diety altogether either. Though that does not preclude some divine force that moved all things, but it should make us ever the more humble in our estimates and assumptions of what we construct and then label as God. Every time we draw a line in where we think the universe ends, we have vastly underestimated. So too should grow, and dare I say, evolve our understanding of god.
The points near the end of the prepared lecture really ring true to me. I think that as "religion" got squeezed out of society, something vitally important was lost along with the less important specifics of mythology and ritual. There's very little examination of "why", and connections between people have become more rare and more shallow. Humanity doesn't know what to do with itself.
I haven't per se, but I have made that point. Atheism is simply a logical extension of Protestantism, or rather, Atheism is simply a sect of Protestantism.
Religion aside from the Gods the we call which have thousands of names depending on religion and sometimes within religion have histories and mythologies that we assign to it. But universal religion is about being appreciative of life and viewing even the hardships as a type of challenge. Being appreciative to life and passing it on in the best of your natures plays a huge part in keeping us in the best of mind and health, and I hope everyone find their own way to it, in a way natural to themselves. Let all who read this find peace and happiness and most humbly and always thank you for reading my comment, I hope it was useful to you.
Great video! I think it would be fascinating if you had a conversation with some Eastern Orthodox thinker like Father Stephen Damick, Father Stephen de Young, or Jonathan Pageau about how post-modern ideas are in some ways functioning to recuperate respect for traditional ideas/religion.
The Latin source word, “religio,” is a verb meaning to bind fast, to moor, tie out of the way. In a sense, religion was something that one did. To have no religion is to be unmoored. At some point it became a noun. A word that describes these various ritual traditions. If religion is a tree, it is one which can be rooted in both our darkest and most luminous natures, and it bears both good and bad fruits depending on the soil in which it grows.
It's a way for society to unite under infinite goals that do not depend on the ebbs and flows of the physical world and its challenges. After each successive fall of a civilization out of the ashes emerged only the hope that suffering is not the point of life. Humans need infinite goals or they wither and die.
So humans find religion in different places. People find that infinite goal for themselves in vocation, in education, in practice, in meditation. That's why we speak of being centered so much. We need to be grounded in what our purpose for being is.
Religion: On the whole, a formal religion is often an objective experience. In other words, there is usually a greater focus on the externals: Houses of worship (e.g., a church) Books of scripture, Eternal rituals, Observances. This is the equivalent of object-referral in which your attention is placed upon the objects in your experience.
You said that Science wasn't in danger of becoming a religion, but then you defended that answer purely in terms of doctrine. But the whole rest of the lecture was about how religion is more than doctrine. I hope you talk about it more in a future lecture, because I think a fuller take on this question would be fascinating.
excellent, as always, a great presentation. but please, no need to feel ashamed of your western heritage and culture. also, would like to see a episode on the new, fast growing, woke religion.
I think religion can be identified by commonly acknowledged set of _sacred_ items: rituals, places, persons or texts. If there is no _concept_ of the sacred, it falls outside of religion.
Humans used to think brains were there to “cool the blood”. That doesn’t mean brains did not exist, or that they did not serve higher purpose. Similarly, Religion is charicature of things not understood. I wrote about that 20 years ago in my first book “The Textbook of the Universe: The Genetic Ascent to God”. I give evidence there and a logical description of how the universe is a teaching textbook, and we can read it. And how all learning is toward higher creativity as a natural law of information which shows exactly what religion is in an evolutionary context and that there is a powerful reality behind it-ultimately a deity. Logically. I also introduced a new experimental methodology for seeing these patterns at work in your own life and in the lives of others in the now. I also connect it to the problems of physics. Anyway just wanted to let you know that my comments are coming from this background. Full disclosure and all that. I used to teach experimental methodology at Emory University in Atlanta. Thanks for this video. 🙌🥰
I am suprised that the Peace of Westphalia was not explicity mentioned. My ancestory is from the Netherlands and it seems to me that religoin was cleaved out of more general 'social practice'. This allowed citizens of Dutchies and Kingdoms to share enough to create a functioning society, even if there were Protestants and Catholics in the same communities. This allows everyone to think "I will work with you even though my core tenants condem you to Hell"
46:25 Protestantism as the road to Atheism; I find it surprising how recent these developments seem to me: it’s like it all happened in my own lifetime (which technically isn’t true), because it actually kind of happened in my own life! So I‘m watching these (and the following slides), and my whole body goes: Yupp, that happened. The following slides about „Meaning from coincidence“ / „The universe is telling me something“ - that cautionary tale of cultural appropriation, and your question about where the forum is, where we talk about our modern obligations (back to the original meaning of „religio“ I guess), reminded me of the function of a lot of Jordan Peterson’s talks (or should I say „convents“): reminding us, that even as an atheist you better be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Don’t think for one moment, that you are not subject to and object of obligations. (On a slight tangent: Whenever I see people quote scenes from „The Godfather“ I‘m reminded to watch that movie. It’s like I‘m missing a whole category of popular reference. (Not even talking about all the Superhero stuff the Americans are into, which I haven’t kept track of) - What I‘m getting at: I agree - there is need for talk about our obligations, but the place where that happens went away, and with it quite some of the references are a lot less obvious / less widely shared with the interruption of traditional religion.) „prove all things; hold fast that which is good“ (1 Thessalonians 5,21)
13:36 Finally. Someone says it. Some of these western scholars tend to forget to realize that there are "theistic philosophies" that do exist. Theism=/=religion
My first time here. Interesting. The bottom line is, that now that Neanderthals, Denisovans etc are gone, we're all that's left and we go by the name Humans/Homo Sapiens. We're unique as a species in that we know we're going to die. "Religion" is one of the cultural devices/practices that many of us use to mitigate the harsh reality of our inevitable & terminal death. A man and his dog will each die and both will be identically dead.
"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same spirit; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot." Ecclesiastes 3:19
Literally all religions that we're aware of are appropriated. To ignorantly rally against appropriation is to rally against human progression. No one needs protected from having their cultural ideas taken and repurposed. To act as that false protector is an unethical and arrogant stance. I think it's a sign from the universe anytime you start coughing.
Two plus Two is equal to Four, 2+2=4 everything else, is Religion. The Religious Instinct, refer to the fact, that all Living Beings, Life-Units, know that they is part of Life. The Circuit-Principle is very essential in the Eternal Life, Circuit of the Religious Instinct begin in Animal Kingdom, with the Dead-Scream, and end when the Instinctive Emotion, is balanced by the growing Intelligence-Development, and Believe can no longer satisfy the Logical thinking beings, they begin to Doubt, and want to Know.
I sometimes think this "wokeness" we have now in US and Canada is a kind of religion. It has all the marks of a religion as defined by French sociologist Emile Durkheim (set of beliefs and practices; distinction of sacred vs. profane, etc.; a notion of unbeliever/heretic).
There is a word for religion in the Tanakh.... Dat (דָת) it means decree or law OF GOD... i.e. religion.... no??? There is also a word for religion in the Quran too.... Deen (دين) ... it means very much the same as the word Religion in English.
No! I am not here to entertain your questions! I will be brief! God said to tell you, that if you can find his prototype (meaning is true origin and his real image), then you can be like him! Without a prototype HIW are you going to mimic God! Pagans are practices not biblical! You are not the prototype of life! End dialogue!
DAVID RELIGION IS MAN MADE MESS OF NOTHINGNESS BECAUSE OF THE WORD OF GOD I AM WHO I AM! IS THE TOTAL TRUTH NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH! NOTHING ELSE EVEN COMES CLOSE TO HIS WORD!🙂
WHAT IS RELIGON? 《 THE RELIGON IS THIS ❤ RAEL 💔 I 👨 GONE. 》 AND NOW ❤IT IN 💔 TWO . LIVE 👪 YOUR ❤ RELIGON 💔 EVREY ☀ DAY WETHER ITS AT HOME 🏡 AT WORK AT CHURCH ⛪ OR AT PLAY ▶ BECAUSE THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THEY ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME. AND EVREY BODY DONE KNOW THAT ALWAYS WILL ALWAYS SAY ⚖ LAW .SO LIVE YOUR RELIGON EVREY DAY .JUSTICE ⚖ INDEED OR JUSTICE DENIED. ITS A SPELL 《 THE RELIGON IS THIS ❤ RAEL 💔 I👨 GONE. 》
Not in this life.. my friend is suffering from a horrible car accident.. and yet.. I was atheist for a long time, and I still believe a lot of what Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have to say.. but something changed last year when a friend shared the Gospel with me. I wound up asking too many questions and her pastor told her I was demonic.. but I am not 😅 I do now understand suffering thanks to Jesus.. (not Paul!) It’s about perspective, because you only really appreciate things when they are gone. If this life was all there was, then nothing makes sense.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I love that these lectures are live streamed now. The live audience asked great questions but tended to interrupt. A lot. Like a lot lot.
John is such a great presenter with pretty thorough research. I appreciate that he can make his way through the material uninterrupted.
Thank you John for doing these videos and sharing your perspective on so many interesting topics. Very grateful.
I missed the live stream, but I will watch this for sure. John Hamer gives great talks, with so much knowledge and insight into these very interesting topics. Thanks Centre Place for making these great lectures freely available.
This was one of the first live steams I was able to interact with, and I must say, with so many places being toxic and degrading of folks, the people on this site were very mature and considerate, even when in total disagreement. It is most enjoyable to have a place to discuss heated issues while still being respectful of one another. KUDOS!
For those who asked but I had to leave, we are moving from something to a whole lot of nothing since the force that expands accounts for 70% and that which combineds/contracts is 30%...so the universe is moving towards a whole lot of nothing as the expansion pushes all things apart stronger than will be their ability to pull themselves together. Moreover the concepts of something and nothing are more profound than folks often like to make of them. And why is there something rather than nothing? So far my favorite answer is simply: nothing is less stable than something. In other words nothing is often popping in and out particles of something in pairs of opposite particles than near instantly annihilate each other, but once in a while, due to other forces acting upon them, one of those particles escapes the annihilation long enough to interact with the HB field and poof, something appears right out of nothing all the time. It's a concept not too dissimilar from life and death, so it shouldn't be too foreign to consider, only that with the latter many attach an eneffeable soul to. So, consider nothing as the flip side of the coin that has something on its face. Yes, that's overly simplistic, but hopefully may help to remove some the the negative connotations or conceptions attached to the state of "nothing."
Now let's get a little to the edge of physics and consider that universes may already be popping into existence only while they appear to be expanding from their point of view, from our point view, that of our rate of expansion, may look they are shrinking relative to us, or that perhaps certain black holes spawn new universes, what then shall the intelligent life forms of those universes believe, that their universe came from nothing or a Deity of some kind? Well certainly not nothing, but perhaps not needing diety altogether either. Though that does not preclude some divine force that moved all things, but it should make us ever the more humble in our estimates and assumptions of what we construct and then label as God. Every time we draw a line in where we think the universe ends, we have vastly underestimated. So too should grow, and dare I say, evolve our understanding of god.
The points near the end of the prepared lecture really ring true to me. I think that as "religion" got squeezed out of society, something vitally important was lost along with the less important specifics of mythology and ritual. There's very little examination of "why", and connections between people have become more rare and more shallow. Humanity doesn't know what to do with itself.
This was brilliant! A nice breakdown of society's religious conception of religion :)
Thought provoking lecture. Thank you Center Place and John Hamer for providing such great content.
Have you, or someone, done a good lecture focusing on why the Protestant logic of logic and evidence doesn't ultimately conclude in atheism?
I haven't per se, but I have made that point. Atheism is simply a logical extension of Protestantism, or rather, Atheism is simply a sect of Protestantism.
Religion aside from the Gods the we call which have thousands of names depending on religion and sometimes within religion have histories and mythologies that we assign to it. But universal religion is about being appreciative of life and viewing even the hardships as a type of challenge. Being appreciative to life and passing it on in the best of your natures plays a huge part in keeping us in the best of mind and health, and I hope everyone find their own way to it, in a way natural to themselves. Let all who read this find peace and happiness and most humbly and always thank you for reading my comment, I hope it was useful to you.
Fantastic as always. Thank you for sharing this.
Love this man's lectures
Thanks for the lectures
Always good
Great video! I think it would be fascinating if you had a conversation with some Eastern Orthodox thinker like Father Stephen Damick, Father Stephen de Young, or Jonathan Pageau about how post-modern ideas are in some ways functioning to recuperate respect for traditional ideas/religion.
The Latin source word, “religio,” is a verb meaning to bind fast, to moor, tie out of the way. In a sense, religion was something that one did. To have no religion is to be unmoored. At some point it became a noun. A word that describes these various ritual traditions.
If religion is a tree, it is one which can be rooted in both our darkest and most luminous natures, and it bears both good and bad fruits depending on the soil in which it grows.
It'd be really great if when John references another lecture. Maybe you could put a link to said lecture in the comments? 🙂
Great, I love these lectures, they're the best thing on RUclips,
It's a way for society to unite under infinite goals that do not depend on the ebbs and flows of the physical world and its challenges. After each successive fall of a civilization out of the ashes emerged only the hope that suffering is not the point of life. Humans need infinite goals or they wither and die.
So humans find religion in different places. People find that infinite goal for themselves in vocation, in education, in practice, in meditation. That's why we speak of being centered so much. We need to be grounded in what our purpose for being is.
Religion:
On the whole, a formal religion is often an objective experience. In other words, there is usually a greater focus on the externals:
Houses of worship (e.g., a church)
Books of scripture,
Eternal rituals,
Observances.
This is the equivalent of object-referral in which your attention is placed upon the objects in your experience.
You said that Science wasn't in danger of becoming a religion, but then you defended that answer purely in terms of doctrine. But the whole rest of the lecture was about how religion is more than doctrine. I hope you talk about it more in a future lecture, because I think a fuller take on this question would be fascinating.
Amazing lecture and thank you!1
excellent, as always, a great presentation. but please, no need to feel ashamed of your western heritage and culture.
also, would like to see a episode on the new, fast growing, woke religion.
Lectures are truth if division amongst CREATION is abandoned. Right now lectures place walls between Creation
Blessed Be!
I think religion can be identified by commonly acknowledged set of _sacred_ items: rituals, places, persons or texts.
If there is no _concept_ of the sacred, it falls outside of religion.
great lecture.
I define religion as "a social construct created with the purpose of justifying rules or rule.
What time do the livestreams occur?
Every Tuesday at 7PM US Eastern time
Humans used to think brains were there to “cool the blood”. That doesn’t mean brains did not exist, or that they did not serve higher purpose. Similarly, Religion is charicature of things not understood. I wrote about that 20 years ago in my first book “The Textbook of the Universe: The Genetic Ascent to God”. I give evidence there and a logical description of how the universe is a teaching textbook, and we can read it. And how all learning is toward higher creativity as a natural law of information which shows exactly what religion is in an evolutionary context and that there is a powerful reality behind it-ultimately a deity. Logically. I also introduced a new experimental methodology for seeing these patterns at work in your own life and in the lives of others in the now. I also connect it to the problems of physics. Anyway just wanted to let you know that my comments are coming from this background. Full disclosure and all that. I used to teach experimental methodology at Emory University in Atlanta. Thanks for this video. 🙌🥰
I’m not sure if disorganized religion is better than organized religion
I am suprised that the Peace of Westphalia was not explicity mentioned. My ancestory is from the Netherlands and it seems to me that religoin was cleaved out of more general 'social practice'. This allowed citizens of Dutchies and Kingdoms to share enough to create a functioning society, even if there were Protestants and Catholics in the same communities. This allows everyone to think "I will work with you even though my core tenants condem you to Hell"
46:25 Protestantism as the road to Atheism; I find it surprising how recent these developments seem to me: it’s like it all happened in my own lifetime (which technically isn’t true), because it actually kind of happened in my own life! So I‘m watching these (and the following slides), and my whole body goes: Yupp, that happened.
The following slides about „Meaning from coincidence“ / „The universe is telling me something“ - that cautionary tale of cultural appropriation, and your question about where the forum is, where we talk about our modern obligations (back to the original meaning of „religio“ I guess), reminded me of the function of a lot of Jordan Peterson’s talks (or should I say „convents“): reminding us, that even as an atheist you better be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Don’t think for one moment, that you are not subject to and object of obligations.
(On a slight tangent: Whenever I see people quote scenes from „The Godfather“ I‘m reminded to watch that movie. It’s like I‘m missing a whole category of popular reference. (Not even talking about all the Superhero stuff the Americans are into, which I haven’t kept track of) - What I‘m getting at: I agree - there is need for talk about our obligations, but the place where that happens went away, and with it quite some of the references are a lot less obvious / less widely shared with the interruption of traditional religion.)
„prove all things; hold fast that which is good“ (1 Thessalonians 5,21)
As soon as I include a link, the whole comment gets discarded by RUclips. Morons.
13:36 Finally. Someone says it. Some of these western scholars tend to forget to realize that there are "theistic philosophies" that do exist.
Theism=/=religion
Religion is not just a spiritual path but also a complete code of life with moral code and criminal law like Islam and Judaism.
It is how you claim to know what nobody and you do not know
what is religion, controlling the populace!
great lectures thanks!!
With religion you can feel good about yourself without religion you would feel so bad you would kill yourself after you did something horrible.
Every year, 1/7 of America's adults consult some kind of "fortune teller." That's according to a Pew survey.
Can you do a video on Nazism and white nationalism / aryanism and the original of modern race theory?
I've heard that a cult with time becomes a religion!?
My first time here.
Interesting.
The bottom line is, that now that Neanderthals, Denisovans etc are gone, we're all that's left and we go by the name Humans/Homo Sapiens. We're unique as a species in that we know we're going to die. "Religion" is one of the cultural devices/practices that many of us use to mitigate the harsh reality of our inevitable & terminal death. A man and his dog will each die and both will be identically dead.
"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same spirit; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot." Ecclesiastes 3:19
Literally all religions that we're aware of are appropriated. To ignorantly rally against appropriation is to rally against human progression.
No one needs protected from having their cultural ideas taken and repurposed. To act as that false protector is an unethical and arrogant stance.
I think it's a sign from the universe anytime you start coughing.
Two plus Two is equal to Four, 2+2=4
everything else, is Religion.
The Religious Instinct, refer to the fact, that all Living Beings, Life-Units, know that they is part of Life.
The Circuit-Principle is very essential in the Eternal Life,
Circuit of the Religious Instinct begin in Animal Kingdom, with the Dead-Scream, and end when the Instinctive Emotion, is balanced by the growing Intelligence-Development, and Believe can no longer satisfy the Logical thinking beings, they begin to Doubt, and want to Know.
The quick answer to this 'What is Religion' question is.....
Faith in other people's beliefs. (that can never be proven)
I sometimes think this "wokeness" we have now in US and Canada is a kind of religion. It has all the marks of a religion as defined by French sociologist Emile Durkheim (set of beliefs and practices; distinction of sacred vs. profane, etc.; a notion of unbeliever/heretic).
❤️🇺🇲✡️✝️🕉️☸️🇺🇲❤️
There is a word for religion in the Tanakh.... Dat (דָת) it means decree or law OF GOD... i.e. religion.... no???
There is also a word for religion in the Quran too.... Deen (دين) ... it means very much the same as the word Religion in English.
you need to have your glasses adjusted . you were averaging pushing them up on your nose 2 times every minute
Legions of The Sun God Ray/Rah
Religion
No! I am not here to entertain your questions! I will be brief! God said to tell you, that if you can find his prototype (meaning is true origin and his real image), then you can be like him! Without a prototype HIW are you going to mimic God! Pagans are practices not biblical! You are not the prototype of life! End dialogue!
DAVID RELIGION IS MAN MADE MESS
OF NOTHINGNESS BECAUSE OF THE
WORD OF GOD I AM WHO I AM! IS
THE TOTAL TRUTH NOTHING BUT THE
TRUTH! NOTHING ELSE EVEN COMES
CLOSE TO HIS WORD!🙂
I love ISLAM❤
WHAT IS RELIGON? 《 THE RELIGON IS THIS ❤ RAEL 💔 I 👨 GONE. 》 AND NOW ❤IT IN 💔 TWO . LIVE 👪 YOUR ❤ RELIGON 💔 EVREY ☀ DAY WETHER ITS AT HOME 🏡 AT WORK AT CHURCH ⛪ OR AT PLAY ▶ BECAUSE THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THEY ALWAYS REMAINS THE SAME. AND EVREY BODY DONE KNOW THAT ALWAYS WILL ALWAYS SAY ⚖ LAW .SO LIVE YOUR RELIGON EVREY DAY .JUSTICE ⚖ INDEED OR JUSTICE DENIED. ITS A SPELL 《 THE RELIGON IS THIS ❤ RAEL 💔 I👨 GONE. 》
Religion is the strawman of human attempts at truth.
I find it hard to believe the good outweighs the bad on a whole.
Not in this life.. my friend is suffering from a horrible car accident.. and yet..
I was atheist for a long time, and I still believe a lot of what Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have to say.. but something changed last year when a friend shared the Gospel with me.
I wound up asking too many questions and her pastor told her I was demonic.. but I am not 😅
I do now understand suffering thanks to Jesus.. (not Paul!)
It’s about perspective, because you only really appreciate things when they are gone.
If this life was all there was, then nothing makes sense.