DO YOU REALLY NEED A GRID HEATER??
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2019
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New meaning of living off the grid.
Gold.
What needs to be taken into account that can’t be seen is what effect the grid heater has on combustion. When the grid heater is on the air is warmer and in the “zone” that diesel will combust the best in. When you don’t run a grid heater you have lots of cylinder wash from unburnt fuel. This is bad for 2 reasons, first faster oil dilution rate because more fuel is going by the piston and into the crank case, and second when that fuel “washes” down the cylinder it brings the oil with it meaning higher wear rates.
Yup exactly. The engine would wear considerably faster cold starting without grids all winter than it would with them.
Just an idea if you want to be able to get rid of the grid heater and start easily try modify the intake to accept ford 7.3 super duty intake air heater. I believe they are quarter diameter about an 1 1/2 inches long. That might heat the air enough to start easily without the restrictions
lol I must be the luckiest guy in the world I live in ohio and my 01 has 240,000 miles on it and has not had a grid heater since day 1
Grid heater, oil pan heater, battery heater, fuel heater, block heater. All this would allow instant starts well into the negative temperatures.
@@xc8487 Also known as a "garage"
When its negative 16 an you find out she's home alone..
Tune in next week when we try to start my truck without fuel.
Seems legit
Omg I can't stop smiling about this,,, this comment is so funny!!! Thank you so much for the great Joy this morning!
I always loved the sound of a cold diesel. Something fun about imagining the engine warming up and knowing there is small little fist sized explosions making it that warm when it's that cold out. Cool stuff!
Knowing full well what is happening to the engine, this is hands down my favorite cold start video! Love the truck, and the channel. Thanks for doing what you do!
That was a really educational video! Great set of tests!
had a 2001 super duty 7.3 living in MD near PA and had a couple of really cold winters. Did some checking on how much the block heater made the meter on the house spin and put a timer on the block heater so it came on about an hour before I was ready to head off to work. Made a big difference in how the old ford started and had pretty much instant heat for the defrosters.
Can a Cummins start without a starter?
Tune in next time to find out.
Damn your fine !
Yes it can.
I’ll start you with out my starter and Cummins
Bump start a Manual, yes
Yeah bro it'll start.
ohhh yeee heard that injection timing xD, i like the first go around when she comes out of the lope when the cylinders have some heat in them
Love the content you're putting out... keep up the good work and you have some badass builds
Nice Test... i think mine would probably act very similar to yours... -20 every morning here in Calgary lately so i plug it and use the grid heater:)
-16 there and somewhere it’s 35 and a 7.3 is hooked to its umbilical cord still struggling to start 😂😂
Tom Ondrek my buddy’s 6.5 was struggling to start at 50 degrees lol
@@Dropbackdurbin_ocs yeah 6.5s are idis. They heavily rely on glowplugs. Direct injection engines like a cummins are far superior at starting without anything but compression alone. Obviously the grid heaters help a lot. My little perkins ranger is a idi and it wont start in summer weather without a glow plug cycle lol.
Guys saying 7.3 struggling to cold start makes me lmao my 7.3 with over 500k fires right up in -40c without any issues as long as fuel and air intake heaters and glow plugs all work properly
That's a cool welding rig setup. I like it!
Very good video. I’m running a custom 12valve tune on my 05 and the writer of the tune forgot to turn on grid heater within it. So I just keep my truck plugged in. But next week supposed to be in the teens so we will see. I might try it without anything. Thank you for this video!!!
Really interesting video, not that I live somewhere where it gets cold, and I don't have a cummins anymore (both of mine had the grid heaters deleted) but was still interesting to watch.
I cant believe you got rid of that 3rd gen megacab for a ford!!! That was a nice truck
Optimal Welding I couldn’t do it anymore. Every time I fixed something something else would break. Changed the trans cooler line which sucked because rust (weird to have a rusty vehicle when you live in Florida) then immediately after the fan clutch quit working. It had cut the wires. Put a new one on. Then it only turned on when the engine was cold. Changed the whole ac system. Then it wouldn’t work because the tipm was fried. Bypassed that with a relay. Two weeks later low Freon. Track down the leak. Change the high pressure switch. Then randomly developed a bigger leak. First Texas trip the alternator died 5 minutes into the 18 hour trip at 6am. Power outlets would randomly stop working. Etc. I was just over it. If it was a clean truck I would have been more inclined to throw money at it. But it wasn’t. The more I put in the less I was going to get out because of the rust.
I really like the new dually. I’ve always wanted a dually on 22/24’s so it’s the first truck I’ve had where I really really like the look. Goal would be to build a 6.4 dually the same way with a p-pump 12v compounds and maybe a stick.
@@Taylordrifts Bummer, sucks to hear you had such bad luck with that truck.
I hear ya, duallys on 22/24s is sick! I may take my 2012 megacab that route. Or convert to srw. Not sure yet.
If you do end up throwing a cummins in the ford I highly recommend you consider using a 2003+ common rail engine. The wiring is no more complicated than doing an LS swap but will result in much more driveable truck. Way more power while still keeping it clean and quiet.
@@Taylordrifts this didnt age well lmao.
my neighbors will love putting up with this every winter morning so I can have a wee skoochie bit better airflow. i dig your scientific method, good illustration.
I live in Ontario and when it’s below -10c I plug it in and use my grid heaters. Starts good. Just warms up faster being plugging in. But I also have a 12 valve
Have a 2000 and even at 30 deg with a bad grid heater it started just like yours. Like the video showing all three. Thanks. Headed out to replace mine today and hoping it's not the harness as well. We shall see.
And this is why grids are nice to have
@CP Steve Miller You could throw a switch on the grid heater relays no problem. I can also disable the error code in tuning for you so no codes switching them off either.
@CP Steve Miller It doesn't give you a dead pedal with p1222 or p1223?
@CP Steve Miller Yeah definitely a body issue, or simply connector tube needs to be torqued more. Needs to be fixed before doing any tuning. It will eventually hard start and then not start at all as the leak gets worse.
@CP Steve Miller just use a relay on a toggle switch to cut power when needed. Not sure what size that circuit needs, but that's what I would do.
What about disabling the Grid heater to jump start, when the engine is warm turn it off, enable the Grid heaters again and start it up?
All you need is the block heater in cooler temps for the 5.9. Yes, the grid heater helps a little but but the grid heater was mainly thrown on the Cummins Dodges to satisfy EPA nutjobs for emissions at that time. The ''industrial Cummins'' at that time that went into buses, generators, boats, farm equipment, etc didn't have them even though it was the same engine.
This is exactly what I needed to know thanks for the great video
Should we get Gale Banks to do a comparison of pressure drop over the grid heater just like diff covers?
Yess I was just watching these
Because this is retarded. At best you're gaining .025 hp for I DeLeTeD mY gRiDhEaTeR nEpHsOn YeE yEe
@@BiggusDickus2 thats what my Duncle Wayne told me lol
Haha if it is an issue, why not build an intake stub with 2 heaters side by side , kinda like sorta know what I mean ?
That’ll flow enough air.
Lmao banks is the shit.
I gotta say I love powerstrokes but the sound of that Cummins cold starting is bad ass!
My grid heater isn’t hooked up and I know here in Montana that it will start at 0 but I plug my block heater in any way to save on my Single battery and starter! Great channel boys !
One thing that helps with cold starts is using 5w40 instead of 15w40.
-15w40 would be great.
I run 0W in the winter but realistically running synthetic is the biggest difference maker for oil in cold weather. Block heater is also the biggest help, especially in the last 3 weeks when we were -20 to -40 celsius.
CalgaryDynastar where I’m at we usually don’t get much colder than -10 c so for me 5w is plenty good. And yes a block heater makes a HUGE difference!
It would flow better but I don't think it have the same effect on a Cummins or Duramax as it would with the old 7.3 and 6.0 Powerstroke. They depended on oil flow.
@@bryanmartinez6600 it would definitely have a large affect.
All that slow cranking is from.the oil still being thick.
I didn't realize how great this video would be. Thanks
3 weeks ago I was at -15 Fahrenheit only block heaters on three Diesel engines all started perfectly every time
What a great video and experiment. Thank you for taking the time to sure great information. I learned a lot from the video.
Love the high clearance welding bed!
The grid heater can induce pumping losses on the engine. It is an additional restriction in the intake pipe that will stay on during summers, when you don't really need help starting. Block heaters meanwhile, can be used selectively in winters, without the added fuel economy penalty during normal running, as long as you have access to power from the grid.
Love your content. You should def do a lot more.
As a freight liner tech, yes it does between an isx15 and dd15
Love these videos and tests. 🙃
reminds me of starting a m60 tank in the cold keep them running it a diesel start it once its all good
Used to run big diesel engines in tri-axle and eighteen wheeler... never had a grid heater and they always started..... if it's that key to get it to start easy just plug your block heater in.. been done that way for years....
Please up upload more. Your literally my favorite youtuber and I've watched damn near every one of your vids. Even once a week would be awesome🙏
I got some stuff on the go, lots of vids coming!
Nice video! Thanks for sharing!
Has anyone ever flow tested a grid heater to see how restrictive they are? Excellent video as always. Thanks
I would check out some of Banks videos, since they make the Monster Ram intake and love show boating flow charts. :)
It's best to use the block heater when below 32 deg. Less stress on the batteries with or without the grid heater as you shown and all that smoke is COLD unburnt wet diesel from one or more cylinders until they start burning and firing correctly and then it levels out with a cold light smoke. Good test and good point. But best to use them both to save the battery life.
My 2012 Ram Cummins didn't like the temps we had on the 8th of Feb. 43 below zero (-41.6 C) it ran, but even with winterized #2 mixed 50/50 with #1 and the fuel heater it was still gelling up. (It started just fine)
Ahhh multiple cold starts.
Thanks
love your bed design
Very informative ! Proud texan's resident here lol
Great real time Test.
I live in Minnesota and work for a delivery company. All our rigs have the 24v Cummins, mine has 260k miles. It gets so damn cold here in the winter, that you 100% need the block heater plugged in and grid heater operational. When the air temp is -20f, even my gasoline engine in my car starts hard.
That bed is dope
Turn key, hold wide open on RPM Governor, warms up super good😉 👍
I'm from Wyoming and this past Christmas we had a - 45° F and with windchill it was 60 below zero my truck with grid heater and plugged in took almost a day to get started
I seriously wish they would get rid of those gas struts and go back to the spring type hood assist.
@Bohappenstance Click if it's a Chevy nope they burn those out for some reason
@Bohappenstance Click I personally prefer the new ones mainly because the better lighting they provide.
Haven't driven a vehicle with 4 bulbs as you say unless they are separate high and low setup.
Our 09 express has the glass bulbs and the light output from 2 bulbs is terrible.
It doesnt get as cold here in Pennsylvania as it does where you are but i kept my grid heater and i installed a block heater just to keep the old girl warm in the dead cold of winter, the past couple years its been more and more cold but less snow its weird haha we used to get tons of snow and it was cold but not like its been the past few winters so i got the old girl a new block heater and relays for the grid especially since shes got 340k and never given me any issues except a governor pressure solenoid and transducer and minor stuff but my 04 and my 03 have both been great to me so im taking the time and refreshing both trucks the 04 just got cab corners and rockers done and paint and now ehile the 03 goes under the knife im gonna start doing some upgrades to the 04 and im starting with your switch and tunes ive read a lot of great things about you and i cant wait to try it out for myself ❤ stay warm and ps i know this is an older video but i just found you a couple days ago and after we emailed back and forth i found your youtube so i came to watch some content and give ya a sub nothing major but if i can help someone doing great stuff in the community then i will ❤
A true cold start there boys!
Coolest "flat" bed I've seen by FAR. 👍
I love haveing my heaters in and plugged in even when its not very cold. Easy start no smoke and the beast is almost warmed up.
Yup block heater keeps coolant temp @ 40c/100f so you get heat right away. I always plug in if possible.
@@Cumminslife awesome video like always btw
Naw you don't need a grid heater. Just an extra starter, and batteries on hand for backups..
idk why the thought of removing the grid heater is even a thought up here in canada. My welding rig was stuck in fort mcmurray this winter at -40 for a few weeks, no plug ins. if i didnt have a grid heater it wouldnt have started and i wouldnt have made any money this winter lol
Diesels run smother and more efficient at warmer temps. Removing the grid heater in those temperatures is just stupid.
but if you just plug it in is it really going to cause any harm without it
Diesels actually run better when its cold
ChrisCG it does actually wear out parts quicker when you don’t have a grid heater
@@695noah You're just making that up lol... What parts are wearing out faster? explain.
RideNorthwest, I’m not waiting for a response on that one lol!
I’m pretty sure when you do the complete cold start and it runs rough, that’s actually a design by Cummins. It’s running on 3 cylinders until the block is warm enough to fast idle. That’s where all the smoke is coming from and why is suddenly goes away after a few minutes.
That was from 98.5-02 cummins only 3 cyl high idle.
Very useful thank you sir 👍🏼
Great video for no grid required!👍 I agree. Just plug in the block heater if you live in those kind of winters...it's seems to start better in really cool temps with block heater than grid heater.
Having my grid heater functional on my big air compressors is a night and day difference when starting cold.
My 95 Cummins (with 100hp over injectors) starts easier than that at 23*F, but I also double-cycle the grid heater for ease of starting.
Fun test... Wish you send some of that cold here to Arizona... Haha
Glad I live in south Texas never gets like that I got rid of mine too
Great video thx.
Yup.. That "fired right up" and kept on running... Ahem... :D
Excellent video
I live in central Oklahoma. I removed the grid heater. Terrible mistake. Early model 03 5.9 Cummins. Did not want to start when it got below 40 degrees. The truck had 300k miles so there is a change it just had other issues.
Oh that’s nice @ 7:23.
So do you take them out or just unplug them
I personally like a Webasto or Espare heater, set it a timer to run for a hour each day and your coolant system is up to temp. Also commonrail start much better then mechanical injection due to the atomization of the fuel... really helpful is vgt turbos with vanes closed up to cause a restriction, keeping heat in the cylinders and the engine under a load.
Also timing plays a huge part, anything over I’d say 16-18 degrees leads to harder starting
Its definitely a pain in the ass starting my truck in the winter up in Montana without one.
problem/difference is that the thermostat to turn on the grid heater is also adjusting the fuel/air mix because its cold and since the grid heater is not plugged in things arnt functioning as intended its not running smooth.. when the block heater is plugged in its already warm so doesnt need to kick in the grid heater..
Just ran across your channel and subscribed. Great test but does your truck have the fuel heater too like my 97 12V under the lift pump? I've heard I should get rid of that also.
The mother of all cold starts.
I have wondered about having dual grid heaters side by side to double flow with cold starts intact. I have been thinking about doing something like that dual intake horn that banks has with two heaters. I have seen as low as -40F here so there's no way I'm deleting the grid because I need it to work great every day. I have my grid wired to a momentary button also so I can hold the button a little longer than it would normally run or less when it's not as cold.
logging equipment 30 years ago with the 5.9 cummins had NO grid heater, with good batteries they would rotate 2 or 3 times then run even at 10F.
Cylinder wash with fuel is hilarious 😂
Do you hold the key to the right so it’s constantly turning it over? Or once it starts it keeps putting along when there’s no heaters at all
Where we are at i can be as low as minus 40°f and all we have to do is cycle glow plugs
Well, since there not massive engines I think you can get away without a grid heater, but the quickest way to start a cold diesel is to feed it hot, or proplane burn air. Anyways nice video
Stack sounds nice
2:22 Cool. The rough idle sounds like it's due to cyclic misfire, where each cylinder has one or more misfires between each successful power cycle. Obviously, low temperatures slow down evaporation of sprayed diesel fuel. A cold, lean mixture is far less likely to ignite by compression. What's more difficult to explain, is why there is periodic successful ignition:
1) Intake and exhaust valves don't open and close at TDC and BDC, but instead have extended duration for effective scavenging at high engine speeds. At low rpm, excessive intake-valve duration causes partial regurgitation and reintake of intake charge. Similarly, excessive exhaust-valve duration causes partial reingestion of exhaust gasses at low rpm.
2) Excess liquid fuel collects on the piston and cylinder walls with each misfire cycle. As the surface area covered in liquid fuel increases, the evaporation rate increases.
3) The accumulation of incompressible liquid fuel effectively reduces combustion chamber size, increasing compression ratio. This raises the peak air temperature after compression, and broadens the range of ignitable air-fuel ratios (i.e. flammability limits).
The combination of effects 1), 2), and 3) leads to a gradual increase in flammability from one power cycle to the next. This will approach a limit (asymptote), dictated by air/fuel/engine temperatures, and by the exhaust-rate of liquid fuel. Hopefully, liquid fuel gets exhausted before hydraulic lock occurs.
Once ignition is successful, much of the heat produced is used to evaporate fuel in the cylinder and exhaust. This results in a very rich mixture with smoky afterburn. For this reason, the exhaust/turbocharger/cat will warmup much sooner than the engine.
I asked a question about your airbag install on your Texas pipeline bed build if you could check it out and let me know.
Would love to see a comparison on a dyno. Thanks for sharing.
0 difference, the grid heater is not a restriction.
Batojiri1 the first time I looked straight down through it, I couldn’t see how the grid heater would be restriction. Like to take a veneerer measurement and see how much it is.
Good looking welding truck
Nice welding truck, looks like a pipe fitters set up.
what would be the hp gain from deleting the grid heaters..... I remember my dad plugging the truck in when he first got it back in 1999, dodge ram 3500 24 valve, and waiting for all the lights on the dash to go off before starting. He is in Cail does not get that cold...
Nice video and test 👍
Here in Europe I don’t need the grid heather at all... I always delete them.
Come to Finland in the winter time..
Theviahuh1999 hahaha...yes you are right ! For sure it it’s absolutely could in Finland.
I should better say Germany or south of France...😅
@@Theviahuh I was just about comment "come to northern Sweden and try..."
😂
Cool video as usual. Are you gonna delete your grid heater when it gets warmer now?
Maybe not delete but just find a less restrictive heater setup instead.
I've had my grid deleted for YEARS.
just plug her in when cold.
With a aftermarket intake horn installed and grid heater delete, I pick up some mpg unloaded.
My 03 has never had a grid heater the 8 years I’ve had it and it starts no problem at all. I’ve started it -10 not plugged in. But I also can’t nurse batteries along like the truck in the video. I keep good hot batteries.
When it was loping really bad like that, was it running on three cylinders? Like the vp44 ?
My 12v didn't start at neg - 13. Plugged it started right up. Chicago. 20 it starts right up unplugged.
I sure hope mine starts like that because my gridheater was shorting out and sucking the batteries stone dead for some reason.
Removed mine and got 2mpg more. It's approximately a 17% gain in air flow! Cold nights block heater is all you need!
I have a grid heater, block heater and battery heat pads on my 2011 CTD.
Just had a cold snap here -30 in Edmonton. Not sure if that would work here
Two thoughts, one why not put it on a switch to save the hassle of the plugging drama, 2 if the coil is causing a huge back pressure issue. Why not design a less resistant design and market it. But put a differential gauge on both sides of the coil to prove your point.
Dont know what's happening today, but I'm in.
Cool video. Where are you located?
Yes please everyone use what is designed to help the engine preform at it's best and enjoy