Heroes 3: Horn of the Abyss Adventure Skill TIERLIST!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- This is an adventure skill tier list video for Heroes of might & magic 3: Horn of the Abyss.
I stream daily at: / lexiav
Lexiav is playing Heroes of Might and Magic III with the HotA (Horn of the Abyss) expansion and the community-built HD Mod (not to be mistaken for the HD version on Steam): www.hota.acidcave.net/downloa...
I use the online lobby for multiplayer games. 
Игры
Pretty good but you need a lower tier for Eagle Eye
Year 6 of waiting Hota team to do something about it...
@@Igor369 Scholar and Eagle eye should morph into one skill.
@@SvobodovaEva It would still be bad, scholar is only good on secondary heroes, eagle eye requires you to fight... and live... I do not remember if it even works when you retreat from a fight.
@@SvobodovaEva Since Eagle eye literally does nothing so this will not fix the issue.
Eagle eye needs to do something more than let you learn spells to be useful, for example some chance to cast a spell (or something like give the hero two casts per round every other round).
Sorcery could work if the coefficient is higher (e.g. like archery's 10/25/50%).
@@martinkunev9911 It would not fix the issue completely but at least it would get rid of one useless skill to choose from.
It's always really nice when you get Witch's Hut with Estate, Logistics or Scouting for all your side heroes.
Far better scholar with necromancy for your main )
It's a lot better when I get an Earth Magics from a witch hut with my main.
These videoes are highly entertaining, keep it going
Regarding Wisdom skill, I think is more than essential. Without it is like, bye bye Town Portal or any other above lvl 2 magic.
Yes. You put eath magic as must, but wisdom at maybe. Without it you dont have more than 1and 2 level spels. Its S top list.
Wisdom isn't good or bad. It's okay safe skill to not feel like your hero is ruined. Slow is the best spell in game and is tier 1. For wisdom you need lot of mana, either mage guild or pandora box or scholar hero. If you get lucky and find earth tome it becomes eagle eye tier skill
you can still use the spells from scrolls or books, no?
exactly! how is wisdom not S tier? it enables u all the BEST spells in the game, including critical control spells!!
H3 hota team need just get rid of it, and made simple as in h5.
Great content!! I remember I bought HOMM 3 The Restauration of Erathia back in 2000. I was 7 years old at that time and I was begging my mother to buy it for me due to the beauty of the CD cover. Fast forward 20 years and I still play HOMM 3 constantly. Back then I didn't know what a gem I just bought. I remember watching the trailer with awe and fear especially at that part when the Medusa petrified the Arch Mage. It gave me nightmares as a kid... But now it just fuels my constant nostalgy over this masterpiece of a game. HOMM 3 and AoE 2 defined my childhood. Thank you again for the great content. :D.
Külön élmény, hogy ezt a kommentet egy magyartól látom :D same feels :D
@@dicsakbuksi909 köszönöm szépen a komentre. Különös élmény h kapjak egy magyar embert aki szereti ezt a játékot!!
You should let your mum know this story and how it still means something to you
@@MajesticDemonLord I remind her almost every week about the impact these games had on me. Sadly, being a boomer she always nags me about not reading enough, not being much affected by my passion for games. However, she is mother and I will always respect her point of view.
@@geroszekeres7136 Your mother, being a "boomer", was quite nice to buy the game for you.
My mother (both parents, actually) never conceived the idea to pay for something as trivial as "video games" or movies.
My first game ever bought, was Diablo 2 LOD, in 2007, with MY lunch money from high school, saved across 2 months or something (and keeping the money-saved as secret - otherwise, she wouldn't have given me money the next day).
And I bought diablo 2 because it was, and still regard as, the best game I played (along with half-life).
And the fact that I wanted to play it online, "legit" way.
So yea...I think your mother is a nice person, and did the right thing back then DESPITE her personal views.
By the way, I'm from Romania.
We love HOMM as well ! (as well as most of central/ east europe) :D
Love these videos Lexi ! Hope you make more. Take care !
Just discovered HOTA and your channel as well. Love your expertise at the game and your explanations as well. Nice and usefull video! Thanks!
Leadership is a big game changer because with Expert Leadership, your hero can have multiple faction units and not have his/her morale affected
Nothing is more frustrating than loosing morale in a fight.
I love those ranking videos! Cheers from Poland!
Great Vid Rytis!! Even i play Hota alot and most of it is known to me, kind of videos are really enjoyable to watch and even more when You say about Your examples like with tactics. Keep it goin
Amazing video! And extra cred That You explained for us not playing Hota What was nerfed and what was buffed!
As someone who is getting more into HoMM III again and hasn't played competitively I really enjoy and, find this kind of content valuable.
It's help all the information and tid bits you share that otherwise I'd miss out on. I would like to see how you rank each hero in hota. I understand would be a lot of work.
Great video, thanks for improving my knowledge of one of my all time favorite games. I'm excited to see what you rank next!
yo lexi good shit bruh, really liked ur tier list, i would really like to see a unit tier list xd
Love these tier lists! Can you do a long one for all monsters/spells?
Damn, HOMM 2 & 3 were my favorite games as a kid, finally decided to get homm 3 ultimate from GOG and also slapped on the HD mod & HotA and man... having such a blast. Thanks for this list btw!
I'd disagree water magic being below fire magic. Water magic has some nice mass spells, with a pseudo haste in prayer and cure/dispel when the opponent casts a mass debuff on your army. Mass bless also improves your damage output. High level may not be that impactful, but as you mentioned clone is good and water walk even not being the top has some uses.
I find that the tier 3+ water spells just aren't worth it, but might heroes really do appreciate mass bless and mass cure.
Fire magic is useful compare to Water. Contains the powerful spell, mind affecting spell (berserk), and blind. You could say is the water is the counter for fire spell. However, the spell Armageddon in the hands of dungeon, inferno or conflux is so destructive even the all the school of magic combine. The downside is it depends of what faction u use, luck of getting armageddon and it is long game play
@@brianmayabella5992 yes, those fire spells are good, but what I had in mind is that expertise doesn't bring that dramatic of increase, while water has more relevant mass spells, where expert expertise is mandatory. Basic Forgetfulness is useless, but expert one can make some battles where you'd suffer severe losses into no loss battles.
@@brianmayabella5992 frankly disagree. Fire Magic doesn't actually enhance blind all that much outside of slightly reducing the MP cost, which isn't worth a skill slot. Armageddon is very strong, but it's also extremely hard to obtain. Bless and Cure on the other hand, are both extremely easy to obtain and give your army a very noticeable boost. Water also has a useful early damage spell in ice bolt, which fire magic lacks.
@@webbowser8834 thats why i said depending on your faction. Dungeon, inferno and comflux have highest roll obtaining armageddon. Also like, necro cant get bless spell in their library or inferno / dungeon rarely get prayer spell. The tier list Lexiav is not about availability, its about the ability to win games once u have it. Believe me, if i am dungeon hero and there is a roll between Water and Fire Magic, i go for Fire likewise for Castle heroes for water magic.
Sad that water magic wasn't one rank higher for us to get a diagonal row of magic schools. :(
True, water magic is useful to combat type faction. Generally its not that useful compare to Earth and Air.
These tier lists are so fun! Do spell tier list next.
Lexiav: Necromancy is A tier
Also Lexiav: Skeletons are D tier
The thing is in numbers
If you had a stack of 100000 peasants and you could make them hit something they'd be impactful as well (*Republic of China intensifies*)
Its called synergy. Its useless without the other.
He didn't mean the numbers. He was talking about the stats, hp, dmg, speed, and how good they are in a scenario with the same army, no more, no less. 1 centaur is definitely better than 1 skeleton
Water magic, with mass dispell, mass cure, mass bless etc is sick. I'd put on A.
A good, informative and an entertaining video. Would you perhaps consider doing a tier list for hero classes, heroes, spells, major/minor artefact as well?
I agree with most of your rankings. Especially the 4 magic schools. I've always felt that Water needed a higher damage spell (maybe a blizzard or something similar to deep freeze in homm5) to better match the other schools (meteor shower, implosion, armageddon and chain lightning). But it has some uses, such as your mention of prayer and clone. Others include teleporting hydras behind castle walls, mass cure/dispel can be OK, and on a few rare occasions mass forgetfulness can be usable
Agreed, Water is underrated, specifically for mass cure and clone (and sometimes prayer in a tough fight). I'd put it as high B tier (still not a skill you'd pick if you got to pick your top 8... or even made a top 10 list.
@@garyco766 in pve it is a must. or in challenge maps rather. forgetfulness / cloning archangels is a must
Lexiav, you're awesome always :p
Navigation and wisdom on the same tier... i have no words
Love the points, especially on magic schools and wisdom
Diplomacy is a hard skip in Hota. Their nerfs were very effective.
Have you made a tierlist for creatures? Saw another do it, but I really like your explanations :-D
whats great about water magic is that you can clone archangels and resurrect with them infinitely
Yeah, it's not always good but it definitely has some nice use cases
Yes, assuming the clone is killed after using resurrect.
HOMM 5 made learning a serious consideration, still a meme in HOMM 3 :).
HOMM 3 with no multiplayer is a meme or do u have to have a original game for that? a lot of people don't have original game but downloaded one
@@Dualities I don't know the answer to your question offhand, the downloaded game from GOG can do MP though.
The point of my post was actually that HOMM 5 buffed learning, you get a pretty big boost to primary stats from it in addition to its unlocks + the XP itself.
@@TheMelnTeam yeah it was actually quite easy. it a little challenge to find the original game tho. vas trying to torrent something...but at the end I got Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic_III_Complete_Edition__Patch_GOG then i update it with the new community mod...and voila...I was surprised when i saw multiplayer lobbies...remind me of cod days lol or battlefield heroes days
discord.com/channels/526367021600997377/526431520941015088/783861461671084063
are there any other big changes...I read somewhere they removed angels? why? or was that in original update
@@Dualities i have og file but its win7/8
Wisdom is S-tier. You always put yourself in a position to acquire game-breaking abilities, and Town Portal/Dimension Door/Implosion/Resurrection are essential if you're playing a difficult/competitive campaign.
100% Agree with you on the scouting. I use to ignore it when I was younger. Now I target items with it and I can see so much more with just basic scouting. It wins games by giving you way more information. Love witch huts with it. All delivery heroes pick it up.
What did I miss about the wisdom skill? Is it only essential for using the mage guilds? Or do you also need it for using higher tier spells you find on the map? Like, do you get around it by finding spell books for example?
You need wisdom for level 3,4 and 5 spells. Which would make me put it into S tier for town portal etc.EDIT: Oh, but you could get those spells from tomes or scrolls so it's not always absolutely necessary.
Those are officially called "Secondary skills" not "Adventure skills" :P (Primary skills are A, D, K, P)
That said everything else is pretty accurate and this guide will be a great help for any players new to PvP.
One thing to add: Diplomacy lowers the level requirement for library (2 levels per mastery), so level 4 hero with expert diplo can get sweet +2 all boost effectively doubling his early game power (even better for might heroes to increase magic skills), this is so niche though... :D
Good job!
Adventure skills are those secondary skills which help your hero on the adventure map. These are the skills that do not affect your units or spells during a battle.
Logistics, Pathfinding, Navigation, Scouting, Diplomacy, Estates, Learning. You could probably also classify Necromancy, Scholar, Eagle eye, Mysticism and Intelligence as such.
@@martinkunev9911 This isn't an official name though.
I specified it in my comment that official name is "Secondary Skills".
@@piotrtoborek2442 There is no official name for the thing described. "Secondary Skills" means something different. You can call them "Adventure Map Secondary Skills" if you prefer.
@@martinkunev9911 This would be more accurate, indeed. Calling them "adventure skills" is also acceptable as long as everyone know what You mean exactly.
Very curious how you might restructure this if we were looking at purely the base game?
Does diplo only work if your army is already much bigger than the wild camp? I. E. can you get a side hero up to Expert Diplo but walk around with only 1 pikeman and still grab armies?
updated tier-list for the complete edition?
I value water magic with necro skelly army to teleport the skellies for the 3spell points and in sieges it's quite useful
what website you use to ranking this ? may you let me know please
Great vid, but I would like to see maybe in another vid on how would you fix/improve the lower skills to make them more viable. It could be an interesting discussion.
Scouting is really difficult to evaluate. It does not seem to do much, but it can save you a lot of wasted movement... and any skill granting extra movement is extremely good. While there are so many skills you want your main hero to have, that hero often does lot of spearheading into new territory as well. Hm, gotta try it out I guess. What a game, always something to experiment with...
In Wake of Gods the First Aid and Ballistics are insanely good and are GOD tier with a specialist hero who have them as a skill. :)
artillery also as a stronghold hero due to the commander specialty
@@plasmahvh That's straight up cheating using that skill though. :D :) I ban it.
I personally would place Air Magic into S tier too, because it has also strong early, mid and late game spells like haste, lightning bolt or chain lightning and even dimension door and fly. AND when you play against necropolis, an expert killing undead spell could be useful too.
I'd put Air Magic S tier and Fire/Water on A tier.You don't really want all 4 on the same hero but if you cannot get both earth and air magic on a hero ,you can easily replace them with 1 of the other 2(especially air with water)
Do you guys know if I can buys H3 Complete on GOG and the install HOTA & HD Mod? Will that work?
Yes, that is exactly how you want to do it (btw, it is HD+ mod).
You did water magic dirty.
keep it up buddy u are awesome i might not agree with everything but u are far more knowledgeable than i am.
Tactics secure every poormaning, it's also a strong side of it. And also i believe you might have changed some artillery/ballistic description, not quite sure though. Nice vid anyway. Ty 4 content.
So by logic, if earth magic is s tier meaning you can't live without it, and this is predominantly for 3 spells, tp, resurrection, and implosion, all which are tier 4 or above meaning they require wisdom, then wisdom must too be s tier as without it you can't really use earth magic at all outside of slow...
You can use higher tier spells without Wisdom. It annoys so much that people think that you can't use T4/T3/T5 spells without Wisdom, I guess it's the games fault for not mentioning it. Most of the time you get higher tier spells from Scrolls or Tomes, and you do not need wisdom to use Implosion, Town Portal, or anything if you have scrolls or tomes.
Very accurate. Agreed with almost every one
Shouldn't Navigation be top of A tier, or even low S tier. You can only get it on water maps now, right? So whenever it gets offered, that means it's a water map. In which case, it's probably more useful than Logistics? (unless there's only a little bit of water)
Diplomacy can be used to take the library at level 6, you forgot to mention
More specifically, you can take library at 8th lvl with basic Diplo, at 6th lvl with advanced Diplo and at 4th lvl with expert Diplo. Also reduces the cost of surrendering by 20/40/60%.
@@stambe8605 omg I did no know that!
@@mz5805 :)
Why is wisdom not essential? You need it for townportal right?
Water magic with the correct faction is at least B tier. Expert bless on early conflux play is OP
I know I am late to the conversation, but can the developers consider to buff some under powered secondary skills like they did with WoG version way back? For example they buffed Eagle Eye as to discover a random spell each level up, depending on skill level (Basic: up to spell lvl 2, Adv: up to spell lvl 3, Expert: up to spell lvl 4).
Luck is very useful for low-attack units and/or high defence enemies. You get a 12.5% chance for a +100% base damage hit. If you spec for defence only then you can wait for luck and destroy your enemy while they do very little damage to you :)
If Artillery and Ballistics was combined, do you think it'd make it a top pick contender?
It’s tough to create ranking, because at some points, you can give the sec. skill a massiv boost.
Necro, e.g., in combination with the cloak of the undead King defintely is S. You can turn any creature into a skeleton and sacrafice them to get an army of Power Liches;) OC you must be lucky to get the 3 artefacts..
I mostly agree, but I‘d put Water to B, when you have Castle, because Clone is OP with Archangels^^
I don't play multiplayer, but I've used mysticism a couple times now and it feels really good. When I develop a hero so much that he doesn't need to go to town to restock I can just let him traverse the map for ages and never run out of spell points
In hota it's definately usable on mages, let's say you have a big battle and you are out of mana and you flew or dimensioned to explore, then you need to wait an infinity to use fly or DD or town portal again or wait 1 day to get 16 mana back which is enough for a town portal
i'm not saying Eagle Eye isn't a waste of skill slot, but it does have one competent use: a defender hero in a high priority town constantly attacked by the enemy, especially if its stronghold or fortress with only access to level 3 mage guild. having the eagle eye on your defender hero can rather quickly give him access to all the spells of the enemy teams, and with scholar you can pass them to your other heroes well.
I really like Leadership, especially together with Luck. How cool isn't it to get to move again, and then also get luck on the second go? Sometimes you get double move with luck on both as well. Really good on might heroes. Of course I'd prefer Pendant of Courage, but you can't depend on finding that. I don't like Leadership or Luck so much on their own, but by stacking them together, they make eachother even more effective.
I remember an rampart campaign where i had both on max. It was beautiful indeed
I love how you talk to your viewers like were 3 years old :D
hey maybe I'm. sometimes simplicity is nice
Wow I agreed with all your skills.
I think apart from the final battle, current Misticism is two tiers above current Intelligence and I would pick it every time. But yeah, factoring the end fight in INT might be better
S tier - Diplomacy, Necromacy, Air magic, Earth Magic, Logistics
A Tier - Offense, Archery, Wisdom, Fire Magic, Water Magic
B tier - Leardership, Luck, Tactics, Armor, Inteligence, Sorcery, Arthilery
C tier - Resistance, pathfinding, Mystics, Baslistic, Estates, navigation
D tier - Scholar, First Aid, Learning, Eagle Eye
- I don't count HotA changes
picked up 240 master genies last night with diplomacy. it was like week 3
Wisdom is really essential so I would not put it below S. You can't have TP (or DD or Fly or Armageddon) without wisdom (unless you have an artifact of the book of earth magic or other tome books that are rare). Maybe if you are playing with Barbarians on a medium map but in 95% of cases you need wisdom (long term) and its not even a question. The rest is pretty spot on and I really enjoy your content.
You don't need wisdom to town portal or dimension door. You can use it without wisdom... many misunderstanding. You can use it if you have a scroll without wisdom and you can use it if you have a tome of magic like tome of air magic and you can use dimension door without wisdom. You only need wisdom if you want to learn it from mage guild or something...
@@01gg01
so there is a good chance that you wont be able to use town portal, as u must have that specific scroll, or that specific tome.
its still an S tier as u cant regularly rely on that, and even then, u would miss a lot of other good spells.
That's why he put it as "It's good when you need it" but it's not a must pick. Situational like others@@cobrazax
@@plushysheep
its super useful in almost every game, especially if u cannot reliably get the scroll or tome. ive almost never got these in my games. town portal was the best spell in the game for me, and allowed me to literally be everywhere with my main army.
Might be a template-specific situation then. I can see your point.@@cobrazax
Nice video, keep 'em coming!
I made a guessing game out of that and guessed mostly right - yay! :D
I only would have thought Water Magic and Wisdom would be a bit higher. (Wisdom cause you kinda need it for Town Portal or DD, when you don't have a scroll.)
Have a good one. :)
only wisdom seems critical here. water magic doesnt really do much.
@@cobrazax Depends on the map you play. I'm currently addicted to the Maelstrom Map and Visions, Clone and Waterwalk are extremely useful.
@@naruchan1010
Are these in the base game? Not sure i got those...
@@cobrazax No, the Maelstrom Scenario is in the Horn of the Abyss Addon.
Interesting tier list! Although I disagree with the placement of water magic as its strong spells are game changing in my opinion. Bless, cure, clone, forgetfullness and prayer, as well as water walk outside of combat, can be very powerful in their own right. And prayer is offense/armorer/haste spell all in one.
I pick water depending on faction the same as fire magic. Its not really reliable if you are Necro, inferno, or dungeon. do you know why?
I think mysticism should be higher. It was a game changer for me because there was no magic well and i only had 50 mana in total with my wizard and no army at all.
wait, Wisdom is only A tier? then how will you use Town portal for your S tier Earth magic ? or Resurrection? or even Animate Dead? or Dimension door from the Air pack? or Armageddon with AntiMagic? or any remotely useful level 3+ spell?
I mean, it is not exciting skill. it is just necessary, more important to have than anything.
I agree it should be S tier,but if you get an earth tome(or town portal scroll+ ressurection/animate dead scroll) and either an air tome,a wizard hat,angel wings,scroll with dim door/fly or on some maps levitating boots or water tome will do.
how can Wisdom only be A? You need it for townportal, which makes earth magic kind of pointless without wisdom? (late game, mass slow is still op)
You don't need wisdom to town portal or dimension door. You can use it without wisdom... many misunderstanding. You can use it if you have a scroll without wisdom and you can use it if you have a tome of magic like tome of air magic and you can use dimension door without wisdom. You only need wisdom if you want to learn it from mage guild or something.
@@01gg01 Thank you, didn't know that!
I would not be placing armor on the top of the tier. Was fun to watch all that. Did not expect that :D Great video! :)
Armorer is good on an armorer specialist... in which case they start with it. Otherwise I'm pretty much with you. It's really clutch when it does make the difference between losing a tier seven and not but... logistics or tactics or earth magic would work that slot much harder.
@@robertgaudet7407 Vampires with armorer and offense are just fin ruthless.You'll struggle to lose them
Diplo is solid S tier. Whenever you get it you win. And water skill is better than fire skill becouse arma or blind is still powerfull without it. Its only curse and berserk which benefit a lot from fire skill. However a lot of water magic spells are greatly enhanced with water skill.
From where did you purchase the game. I would like to play some online, thank you!
You can get it on gog.com. After you've bought it I would strongly recommend that you download Horn of the Abyss. It's af free fan made expansion, which among other things, makes you able to play it online.
Water magic is a must if you have archangels. Expert clone and you never loose a unit. Bless and cure are also very handy.
Also Bless on Archangels are so OP
@@DOGEreal Bless does doodly for them... they don't have a damage range.
@@gbs5009 That's the joke
resurrection is not the only way keep ALL your units. Clone a powerstack of archangels and they will resurrect a whole lot more than expert resurrection. Clone makes water magic relevant. Also, bias towards archery is like, wtf? you literally have a crappy tier 3 spell which does exactly the same thing
Why is diplomacy above balistics?
Yeah, first list I agree with you. Town Portal game breaker hahah. I have played big maps and NO TOWN had town portal or scrolls lying around. The agony. Still won, just took forever. Scouting for me is A tier along with Logistics.
I never pick tactics... because it is such a pain in the ass to use it :D
Wait how wisdom is a class, how can you learn 5th level spells without wisdom? Or im missing something
Hey! Relics is the answer. When you have a tome of magic or spellbinders hat, that allows you to cast high level spells without wisdom, letting you save the secondary skill slot for something more useful. Very relevant in jebus type maps, not so much in some more poor templates.
@@Lexiav now makes sense, thank you for reply
I'd put logistics on B or C. If have town portal or fly or dimension door, logistics is almost useless.
Boots, gloves can compensate well against the lack of logistics.
Since the nerf in hota I too am trying to avoid logistics.
Suggestion next topic:
Best speciality skills of heroes
Very good list, almost all skills match what I I thought of them. Imo luck should be lower, armorer is much better than offence(fact not opinion), and I'd put water magic in low B tier, tactic in A tier and maybe necro at the bottom of S
spec armor right, but secondary skill armor is exact opposition of offense
Under certain circumstances that were possible in the past, Resistance woulda easily been one of the best skills in the game, simply because if you get enough exp with Thorgrim, get him the Amulet of Resistance, and Expert Resistance, you'd eventually become pretty much immune to magic.
As a Knight player how can you undervalue Water so much? Loynis starts with Prayer after all. Wisdom is also major and essential as spell casters become more powerful. We do not see ey to eye at all. Air being ranked too low since mobility is everything in the game and what you can so.
Scouting strikes me as something that would be way more useful if Heroes 3 had fog of war.
Oh, and btw, the Offense skill does not affect shooters. Just so everybody knows. + Defense is trumping Offense. By a small margin, but still.
Personally I love using Water Magic and Clone alongside Archangels. Then again, I'm a casual
Agree with most of this list. Maybe mystisism lower.
In pvp I would ideally take: Earth Magic, Offense, Armor, Resistance, Interferance, Intelligence, Wisdom and one of Wind Magic/Water Magic/Fire Magic. If Dimension Door and fly is banned then Fire magic, if the other goes Resistance I go Water Magic.
Against AI I would ideally take: Earth Magic, Wind Magic, Wisdom, Tactics, Offense, Logistic, Diplomacy and one wildcard depending on class.
Nothing beats expert earth for slow and town portal and logistics. Edit: Wisdom is a must on the main hero ofc.
I used to disregard water magic, but expert clone and prayer can break the game in the late game. I guess that depends on what your level 7 units are, but certainly with archangels it is insane.
I'd switch scouting and water magic.
For a reason to pick up Leadership just watch the final battle in the "20IQ v 30IQ" video by TheKnownWorld.
Do you know of "HotA Magic and Skills Balance Mod". There is an idea of moving Ressurection to water magic. Nerfing meteor shower, and buffing fireball + inferno for aoe damage. IMO these changes would be good for balancing schools of magic.
Yea, these would make them more fair. But in my opinion its more fun for them to be unbalanced as they are, whenever you get to win with fire/magic it feels really rewarding, and earth being busted after 20+ years feels like a core piece of the game. Much like angel being the most overpowered, cost effective unit is also a core part of the game. So i like changes that don't mess with the identity of the game too much like the mysticism number buff. I think heroes 3 is carried a lot by the Nostalgia and making the game different would go much against it.
Ah, so in the end i did not hear of the "HotA Magic and Skills Balance Mod" but in the end it doesn't sound interesting to me personally.
Balance is not always what is wanted. Imagine balancing all units. How do you make choices then, if imp and angel are as good as gryphon and halfling? Part of the game is that some things are better than others.
@@hommhommhomm u dont understand what balance means. It should be that everything can be usable with a similar probability of winning, that is, to be closely effective, this does not mean that a t1 is as powerful as a t7.
@@endyourway8751 Fair point but it's a bit more complicated than that. For example, towns are balanced against each other because player chooses a town. That's why it's not needed to balance each level 1 creature (e.g. imp being as effective as centaur). With heroes and secondary skills, everyone is picking from pretty much the same pool. I can get barbarian playing castle and that barbarian can get artillery, the same way knights do. So just because artillery sucks doesn't mean anything has to be changed, everyone has access to everything. Imagine that earth is level 7 creature and luck is level 2 creature.
Now it would be problem if knights have bad chance to get e.g. earth and that makes the castle weak. But castle is not weak, it's great. The main balance problem is if some towns are never played, in that sense maybe inferno needs help.
Worst skills could still be buffed, like learning.
Artillery and Ballistics should be combined in 1 skill to make it more interesting, maybe even add in first aid
Yes, I also mentionned that fact once. These 3 should be combined in one for correct value.
i always take ballistics as it makes sieges way easier, at least for any army without MANY ranged or fliers.
Gotta say that the choice between Eagle Eye and First Aid isn't one I want to make, but have to :(.
Expert cure and expert prayer should put water magic in B tier, imho. Also, expert dispell detonates all the landmines on a tower town, which is super cool and useful since your units will literally walk through 3 or 4 of them if you aren't careful.
Edit: Also, Loynis is my favorite hero, so I'm a tad biased, lol.
You will never ever use dispell to clear land mines, it can sometimes win games if opponent has ogrefist but couldn't find the anti-dispell orb, also opponent can't stack up buffs which is also pretty good. Prayer is a worse version of haste, if people ever cast prayer it's because Haste is removed because it's extremely good and makes the game miles easier, Loynis has such a cool speciality, unfortunately it's on a hero that rolls bad skills and starts with a dead skill.
@𝗗𝗢𝗚𝗘 I will admit that learning sucks ass. It can be useful if you want to rush early game but overall it's terrible. His other skills aren't that bad though, I reliably get earth, air, and water with him. Pathfinder and logistics are common too.
prayer doesnt seem to do much honestly...
haste seems to just be better in most cases. and u dont need water magic for it.
@cobrazax your second point is valid. water magic takes up a slot and with the exception of expert cure and prayer is not the best magic skill.
However to your first point, prayer is amazing over the course of a game. The buff to defense and offense coupled with the speed boost means that 50 turns in your stacks are far better preserved.
@@awesomemccoolname7111
Is the buff the same as expert bloodlust and stoneskin?
Putting archery in A tier? Considering it only effects a small portion of your army and that portion usually gets picked off first I find it kind of a waste. That and its faction dependent as I wouldn't use it for certain factions at all because their are limited or not that good, I'd put it low B maybe high C.
The thing is, in almost any late game scenario you will have a cyclops stack, and also the numerical value on archery is completely busted. 50% damage is Actually insane. This super high value pushes this skill to a very high level despite it not always being usable. And ofcourse pickets existing also makes it far more valuable.
@@Lexiav oh yeah, Hota. I was gonna say I'd get it if I had a cyclops power stack, but in a non-Hota game that be can be hard to come by.
FOR LATVIA!!
I love Water Magic because of Loynis.
water magic counter other schools of magics cure, dispel, forgetfulness. amazing defense magic for might heroes with mostly might skills
Great tierlist! I really liked your justification. The reminder that magic schools and wisdom get offered every couple of levels is also great... I had played this game pretty much since the beginning and only learned it recently.. could have made much better choices when picking secondary skills in certain scenarios..
Also very interesting HOTA nerfs: did not know about Necro, Logistics, Intelligence.. come to think of it they all make sense to improve the game experience without drifting too far away from the original! A thing that bothers me is that too many games seem to be decided by cyclops from pickets.. is this a thing or it's jebus specific or maybe I've just seen a bunch of these games?
Thanks and keep it up!
Hey! Thanks for nice comments :) Most templates games are decided by creature banks, since they are almost irreplacable. Reason is, building army is limited in quantity per week, so if you want big armies fast, farming creature banks is one of the only ways. Good news is, we recently had diplomacy come back into the game, giving a different possible option in which you actually build a late game army! Also people are creating templates for PvP which don't have these altogether.
Personally i don't mind it either way, since the actual gameplay and the fun part is the build-up which is very different, based on faction, even if end game goal is very simmilar, in terms of army composition.