The Tim Piazza Tragedy, Rise of Deadly Fraternity Hazing, and How It's Being Stopped...
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2019
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Edited by: Jason Mayer
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#DeFranco #Fraternities #Hazing
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God, imagine being able to see statistics on assault, sexual assault, suicide, alcohol related deaths, etc at a university before sending your child there.
Honestly, I'm pro lowering the drinking age. Canada has it at 18/19 depending where you are. Making it harder to drink is just an incentive to binge when you have the chance.
clerycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/0618_Understanding-Clery-Statistics.pdf You can already see these statistics. It's enforced by the Clery act, a Federal Law. Universities are required to do this. The video discussed laws forcing frats specifically to do this and I think it was just for PA. Unfortunately because Universities don't want to be seen as unsafe, they will cover up and follow up with certain crimes so that they can reduce their statistics and seem safer (especially rape because you know women don't matter). They would probably do similar cover ups with the laws discussed in the video as well.
I was a chef before I was injured and had to retire. I raised my son much like most Europeans raise their children, regarding alcohol. I allowed my son to have a small glass of beer or wine at special dinners like Thanksgiving or Christmas, and family events like weddings, graduations and birthdays starting when he was about 12. As he got older I let him have alcohol a little more freely. Not any time he wanted, but maybe once a week with a family dinner. When he turned 18 I loosened the alcohol rules a bit more and most of his friends were partying pretty hard after high school. Luckily, my son already knew how much was safe and maybe more importantly, how much was *too* much. Now he's 33 and he has a cocktail maybe once or twice a month, and he's never been a daily drinker. It was important for him to learn to be responsible about alcohol because there are long histories of alcoholism on both sides of his family.
@@bishop51807 You need both, lower the bar and being responsible. We have seen other nations treat both fire arms and alcohol with respect and guidance. However these are learned behaviors that many in the US simply are unwilling.
@@bishop51807 no matter how many times you post this comment it still isn't going to be statistically relevant. You're making comparisons that don't have any factual basis. There are many available studies on why prohibition does not work.
haaa its 16 where i live with adult supervision i believe and 18 in normal circumstances. I've always believed this helped people learn early how to handle themselves and because people dont have to sneak drink its easier to help them
um in uni in the uk and since we are able to drink at a younger age, hazing when joining clubs dont really focus around alcohol as much as i say american hazing is because its not seen in this certain light of it being cool to drink a lot in a small amount of time, it seen more as rather childish
That's a good point. In US bc the drinking age is higher, no one is taught to drink responsibly. So when a bunch of kids get together they get as drunk as they can as fast as they can. I've been there (not in frats, just as a teen). Very childish and irresponsible but when you're young the thrill and spectacle made out of underage drinking is enticing.
@@BJ3K_RI it also helps that when we start drinking in the uk, its usually around adults getting drunk with your mates so there is always some sort of supervision even if its minimal
You're avoiding the actual problem: people are seeing drinking as being cool and a requirement, not just cool because it's illegal. Frats and sororities are just cults without the direct religious aspect: they target vulnerable people (17 to 19 year olds) with promises of brother/sisterhood, jobs, money, fun, sex, and booze, and then torture people. You ascend to higher levels and then you torture new recruits. They lie to parents about the worth of the society, and alumni remember it fondly because they probably liked to hurt people...
@@dinahmyte3749 we aren't trying to ignore the problems, we are just giving experiences from other countries to give perspective on why this form of death is prevelent in America rather than other countries
Yeahh..... You're forgetting one thing though. America is still immature nation. Certain things America is still hung up on. Weed being one such thing, which they are just barely starting to legalize due to the stigmas.
Currently watching from Penn State and I can tell you, not much has changed
So be smart. Don't be like that idiot who consented to doing that stuid shit and died for it.
How about don’t join a frat
:(
fookin narc
@@fxDELTAx Hey man, I knew him personally. He was intellectually very bright. Some people just want to fit in, and unfortunately they see fraternities as a way to fit in and a way to find a group of people that are supposed to care for each other and have each others backs. Peer pressure does wonders in making very smart people do things they ordinarily would not do.
The "Reach" bill forcing colleges to have a kind of "scorecard" showing the number of hazing and assault cases sounds like it could motivate institutions to cover up these types of incidents to keep from damaging their reputations...
Remember the Streisand Effect? I doubt unis would walk the "don't prevent anything and cover up all cases" route
@@mmmaxxx__ Universities already cover up and refuse to enforce Title IX which protects against rape and sexual assault because they don't want their reputations tarnished. Anna T's point is valid.
They already do that with college sexual assault. Watched a documentary on it.
Universities have no moral obligations or standards, it’s all about money these days.
I attended PSU when Piazzas death happened. Many students were horrified but not surprised. The fraternity culture at penn state is how it is at southern schools, intense hazing, intense drinking, lots of partying, and disgusting amounts of sexual assault. I love PSUs party atmosphere but intentions can get dark very quickly depending on where you are. The sister sororities to these fraternities would sometimes team up for hazing rituals. I lived in on campus housing near sorority row and heard awful stories in passing about girls having to stand on tables half naked while guys from their associated fraternity circled things that were wrong with the girls body. There was another story of winter time hazing where guys had to stand outside in their underwear while upper class men threw hard icy snow balls at them. This hazing bill has great intentions and I sincerely hope it helps but when your have high expectations of forming a fraternal bond the “traditional way” I wonder if it will lead to off campus hazing that could cause more serious harm.
I had a friend go through Greek life at PSU about 10 years ago and he was forced to run up Mount Nittany naked (among other things). He now suffers from PTSD from the whole experience. I went to Bucknell where 90% of the student body is Greek and they took a hard line stance on hazing. One of the frats got suspended for not allowing their pledges to join a mixer until they finished a quiz about the history of the fraternity. It seemed silly to me at the time, but I suppose it’s hard to distinguish where the line between harmless and harmful will fall.
Personally I'd rather be harshly judged half naked than be half naked and pelted with snow in freezing temperatures, but it would be nice if these rituals were less extreme overall. A little hazing can be fun when done lightly amd everyone is already on a friendly basis, but these are often extreme situations with near strangers. Doesn't sound fun at all
I think that the problem is that the Greek Community’s culture on each campus can change wildly. At the school I attended everyone is mindful of what is going on, but light hazing does still occur. The reason why these practices don’t get out of hand is because of the rules put in place by the university’s IFC keep most organizations in line, for fear of losing their charter. But for southern schools there are so many members that the mind set of “I need to get in” is a bigger issue causing new members to do dumb things and empowering active members to take advantage of them. I think Greek Life is over all a good thing but I definitely think it depends on the organization you’re apart of and the mentality of the community you’re apart of.
I really don't think it has to lead off campus. My fraternity is located in Tennessee at a major university and a pretty well known party school and we do not haze. In fact, we took a lot of safety rules very seriously, we wanted to be the fraternity people trusted, the place you knew you weren't gonna get felt up or drugged or something awful if you partied with us. We wanted the community to trust us and so we had to make sure we were worthy of trust first.
People who conduct hazing need to be put in jail. They are sadistic animals. There is literally no reason for hazing. It is still a huge problem in the military as well. Colleges and the military need to be thoroughly investigated and this crap needs to stop.
Penn State student here. I started the fall following Tim's death. I can't say much about hazing, but I think that the amount of people drinking heavily has probably barely changed. I live right on the main road that separates campus from downtown. There's still plenty of weekends where I hear ambulances screaming down the road. While campus is dry and most bars don't permit people under 21, there's plenty of parties in people's apartments and dorms. And the university has had a major crack down on Greek life, with multiple fraternities and sororities being suspended due to possessing alcohol or continuing alcohol based hazing.
Townee here. Yeah, penn state will never stop being a drunk pit.
Yeah, that was the specific disclaimer that may have slipped by people watching this. The ambulance calls "to fraternity row" has decreased. They had a problem and relocated the problem and patted themselves on the back for making the first place look good. Full points for trying, but addressing the problems: the psychology of frats, and the hierarchy, and the need to set oneself apart, and the need to join groups and belong, and incoming freshmen now in a bigger world with people they don't know... Those are all the hard problems to tackle, and they will be hard to solve, but moving the parties from University approved Frat houses to off campus, doesn't address the problem, it just makes the statistics look better.
I think it’s also potentially more dangerous because then any deaths aren’t directly related to the frat, since it wasn’t in the frat house itself. So then the frats can just play dumb or say they can’t be everywhere at once. It’s the frat culture that’s the problem.
No matter what you do there will still be drinking within student life as it’s a way will college students to deal with boredom. I was a close friend of David bogenberger of NIU who passed in 2012. Banning alcohol and trying to ban frats or sororities will do NOTHING to stop drinking within campuses. The most we can possibly do is to try to educate people as to identify when someone has drank too much and needs assistance, teach them about never leaving drunk people alone, and to stop people from drinking after they are clearly visibly drunk. Because of his death I’ve changed my entire behavior at parties and spend a lot of time during them making sure everyone is alive and has someone to go home with because the last thing I wanna see is another young person fall victim to the poison of alcohol.
It primarily the big rich ones, with the houses and such, that are really fucking up
As a college student myself, this hits close to home. Thanks for bringing this to light, as this is a real problem in US colleges.
Zambiedood Airsoft shutchoassup
Q: What do you call a frat boy in a suit and tie?
A: The defendant.
This is probably not the best video to comment this on my dude
Sorority alumna here. The Greek system is very broken. I had a great Greek experience, but even one death or assault as a result of Greek activities is too many. I've seen how the Greek system can be a powerful force for good but it needs to undergo radical changes if it wants to continue that good work and prevent these tragedies.
The parents of Tim Piazza came to my school to give a talk about all of this it was really moving and spectacular
As a Greek from Greece, 1 those greek letters mixed with latin letters make absolutely no sense, and 2 the whole tradition really has nothing to do with Greece, bizarre.
I knew Tim Piazza personally... He was so wonderful and funny, and so is his family. 😭 we are all still so so devastated about what happened to him. We pray every day the guys who watched him die and put him in that position pay DEARLY for their inhumane acts. Thank you Phil for covering a story that hits VERY close to home for me ❤
His choice his fault
Sorry for your loss Emily. And for those who think it was his fault, while yes he did choose to drink, once he was incapacitated it was the fault of others for not acting.
If any of our prospective members (we don't say pledges) needed help we would rush to them and not give a hoot about ourselves. Because at that point they're already family, they're already our brothers to be. So it doesn't matter if they put themselves in a bad situation, we are there to help them out of it. It's what brothers do.
Nigel Uchiha mistakes shouldn’t kill you, it’s human, we all make them. Maybe try downloading empathy to your files Mr.Robot.
Pay dearly? I wouldn’t go to far with it.
@@nigeluchiha2386
When you are a young man - you think you are invincible.
The problem is not calling for help. Hid life could have been saved. So so sad
I was part of an alcohol free fraternity. We did a lot of community service, and that's where our hazing came in. I helped renovate a homeless shelter while wearing a dress during my first year.
That is the most wholesome thing I've read today, thanks
I missed the alcohol FREE part lol
I was like how is he renovating when he's so wasted?
@@TCt83067695
I was stoned :P
My fraternity experience is going very differently. The guys are all very respectful. While I was pledging they obsessively made it clear that we didn't have to do anything we didn't want to. My experience was only positive. I've made some friends for life and am volunteering way more. I've had to step up into some leadership positions as well which has really helped develop me.
A good example of how legal and healthy doesn't have to be boring.
My sorority is the same way! It was all super chill. If it had been any different I wouldn’t have pledged.
Same with my organization!!!
Glad to hear that your experience isn't a repeat of the hazing stories! All frats should aim to be similar to yours.
It really has to do with campus culture around a Frat. My fraternity hosts events to help people learn their finances on campus, hosts and attends charity events, does fundraising, and acts inclusively towards everyone. Same with all the fraternities on my campus in their own ways.
I've graduated college but I was a collegiate member of AΣA and they were VERY strict about hazing. We couldn't even play games were it was members vs pledges because it could be considered hazing. All groups/teams (not just fraternities and sororities) need to have stricter rules about hazing.
Fellow ASA here, same goes for us. We couldn’t make bracelets for our pledges because it may have been seen as identifying them as such and outcasting them as a different group, which is a form of hazing
I’m in a sorority now and they are strict as well. New members can’t even be taught the Greek alphabet because it would be considered “hazing”.
Same here. I’m a ΓΦΒ alum and current advisor to a local university chapter. If any of my girls were hazing, I’d shut it down ASAP. There’s just no place for that.
I am a Penn State student and there is no way of really controlling the amount of liquor that enters a frat house, let alone an apartment party. Underage drinking happens all the time. It is difficult to control that and this is the reason why so many fraternities have had a hard time here causing them to be discrete in initiating new members. As tragic as this case is, the drinking culture of college especially here has not and will not drastically change.
I am a firm believer that living in a house with your friends, playing beer-drinking games and dancing to overplayed pop songs are not fundamentally incompatible with inclusion, respect and a just society. In its current form, it fosters not just fun and friendship but also inequality. At a time when many dorms have gender-mixed floors, and a full generation after most single-sex schools began admitting both sexes, these organizations seem like relics. Fraternities and sororities must make a number of changes to ensure their survival, starting with going coed.
All those proposed new rules and guidelines won't change the culture. I pledged and was hazed. We knew there were stiff consequences if we were caught which, in the mind of an 18 year old, doesn't do a hell of a lot to prevent bad behavior.
Hank Nuwer hit the nail on the head though; fraternities by their organization allow immature men and women to drink despite laws against it. Take away that exclusivity which fraternities enable and you'll change the culture. It's a good argument for lowering the drinking age to 18.
I say raise the age. Our brains aren't fully developed until 25. Change the culture of the social alcoholic and people will be better for it.
@@dinahmyte3749 People already break the no drinking before 21 rule, 25 would be even worse. Further than that
It would make a bunch of people who casually drink alcohol at 21+ criminals.
Or choose not to drink. I find no interest in such things
thanks frankly speaking fuck that I am 22 and never even liked or respected the 21 law I have always been a responsible person and I hardly need the government telling me if I should or shouldn't drink. What people actually need is self respect and a sense of morality rather then even more government overreach. Not everyone who is 21 is responsible but not everyone who is 50 is ether and honestly looking at the stats of the world I would say a vast majority of the population are under so type of illusion on one subject matter or another.
Naa just ban fraternities. Alcohol before the age of 25 actually damages your brain making you less smart. Lowering the age isn't going to help america.
I currently attend Penn State, I was here during Piazza's death, and I am in a fraternity right now. When the death happened it really rocked the school, at least the parts that I saw. I was pledging at the time, and if anything it made me appreciate the fraternity that I joined even more, because within hours of the news breaking our exec board put out a great statement to us explaining the whole of what happened and reaffirming that we didn't haze. We still don't.
As far as the idea of hard alcohol just going to apartments and out of sight that was 100% true. As soon as fraternities were allowed to throw parties again, a playbook went around describing how to avoid any new regulations that were put into place. Hard alcohol went into brother's rooms, to brother apartments, and IMO it actually got more dangerous for people who were attending parties at fraternities that were trying to skirt the rules, because they were now not only did they have to worry about their guests, they had to worry about very confusing rules and regulations being put out by Penn State. No one really knew how to play by the rules then because it wasn't really clear, so it was almost better for fraternities to just try to avoid the rules altogether.
Since then things have gotten better. I haven't been to many other frats since joining mine, but I can say that the rule for beer and wine only has been pretty well followed from what I can tell. It has unfortunately opened up a new issue of people pregaming (drinking heavily beforehand) parties a lot more, because they still like to drink liquor. This has led to people showing up to fraternities already borderline blacked out. I've even heard stories of girls trying to get into frat parties with a water bottle of liquor and being forced to either drink it all or ditch it before they enter. This has placed a whole new level of risk on fraternities because someone who has just had eight shots of vodka five minutes before they get to your door might look fine, but they might immediately get hit by it as soon as they get inside. The rules that Penn State has put into place for the most part have been good, liquor is a massive risk, but the speed at which things were done didn't allow for enough of a cultural shift to have them be accepted.
Certainly Not Alex at Colorado State there’s also the only beer and wine rule. It’s going good at fraternity houses but at other parties off campus there’s hard liquor everywhere!
I'm a little confused as to what the difference is between hazing and pledging in the US. I'm from the Netherlands and the introduction to our kind of fraternities is pretty much just drinking a lot and doing shitty things like sitting in a tub of mayonnaise for an hour. Mostly it's pretty intens and lasts about two weeks but after that it's over, although we have had multiple occasions of serious injury or death during these introductions. So would that be classified as hazing or as pledging?
@@nielstamsma8287 The two week process would be pledging. Pledging is just when someone is joining a fraternity. It can be totally harmless, full of events like scavenger hunts and camping trips, as well as some knowledge based activities to get to know the history and the brothers better. Hazing is when a pledge is forced to do something unreasonable or harmful in order to keep going in the pledging process. Famous examples of serious hazing are sexual acts like the elephant walk, or drinking immense amounts of alcohol, or marching on broken glass. Pledging is a normal process, hazing should not happen.
@@nielstamsma8287 It also depends on where you are somewhat. Different places consider different activities hazing or not
@@certainlynotalex1164 Do...do I even want to go down the rabbit hole and ask what the fuck the elephant thing is about? Jesus Christ...all this makes me kinda glad I couldn't afford college...
None of these rules will work. Fraternities are already faced with many rules that they choose to break anyway
Agree. Now there will be more drunk driving and crashes since they have to go our partying.
Yeah unfortunately some fraternities will only take this as a challenge and not a rule. Alcohol only enhances some of their ruthlessness but they're already ruthless without the alcohol.
It kind of boggles my mind that underage drinking can even be a serious problem at universities; our drinking age is 19, so it's mostly only 1st years who can't legally drink; I can't imagine needing to be damn near finished your undergrad before it's allowed...
My fraternity was dry, had zero hazing and extremely active in our community. But yes certain greek groups give all of us a bad name.
Service and academic frats/sororities are great, because they focus on the community and not themselves. Social clubs are just an excuse for dickheads to drink and murder and rape.
scott nordlund The fact that death by hazing don’t surprise students and the administrators in some universities makes it even worse.
Well, that's a generalization. I'm in a social sorority and we are very involved with our local philanthropy. we also have the highest GPA of all orgs on campus, including honor societies. We also NEVER haze because we don't believe in breaking down character. While I know other chapters of my sorority may not follow the rules and do haze, that doesn't mean we all do.
@@dinahmyte3749 1000% also we were a heck of a lot cheaper as insurance companies loved us haha
@@dropmelon agreed. I'm in Canada so it would still come as a shock here but down south its a whole other ball game. You can really see that 21 drinking age and over consumption issues in dorms and greek life down south
Now, I'm not American I have no idea what is going on with this...
But I'm always against straight up banning things. In this case alcohol. Everything in moderation. Teach these kids how to do it instead of just saying they're not allowed to do it.
So you would be fine with a 6 year old drinking alcohol in moderation? Or doing drugs in moderation? Or are you a fan of straight up banning it for them?
@@Feynvel, depends how you define "in moderation". My parents gave me small amounts of various alcoholic beverages throughout my childhood. Now I'm a fairly well adjusted adult, who doesn't drink.
They successfully made me generally uninterested in alcohol. That wasn't their goal, they just wanted to remove the "forbidden fruit" appeal. Which worked.
Are current laws being enforced? If yes, then a new law may be useful.
If not, then a new law is meaningless.
I was in college from 2010-2014 and was raped by frat boys as part of their sick pledging twice. I expelled one of them. This is great news. Thank you, Phil. Been watching you since I started college 9 years ago and you never disappoint.
Im in college in Upstate New York right now, and while there are Anti-Hazing policies they are not generally followed. People still get way to invested in joining a group of the "elite" and will do anything to feel accepted. Because of this, these kids are exploited by alumni and senior classmates and will go behind the backs of the administration to do it. I think there need to be more "house moms and dads" as at least someone who checks up on the fraternities and sororities daily to ensure the safety of students towards themselves and one another.
People should expect that kind of shit at a fraternity/sorority. If people feel that frats/sororities are dangerous, they should get a dorm instead.
@@marcusshepert105 I mean, that's probably the mindset a lot of religious cults and terrorist organisations had... It's a slippery slope
@@marcusshepert105 students can feel pressured into it by their friends/family or even the lack of having any could motivate someone to join. Frats/Sororities all advertise ALL over campus pressuring anyone to join as an opportunity for experiences they wouldn't otherwise be able to get. People who become CEOs or fortune 500 mongules mostly met their first connections in their line of work through their fraternities and sorority alumni and peers. Joining Greek life looks great on applications, especially if the groups get involved in voluntary work, studies, etc.
Lol house mom and dad sounds gay af
@@niccarter284 www.mymajors.com/career/house-mother
I am in a fraternity. Nothing during my pledging process involved alcohol or something I didn't want to do. The first night of my joining I was sat down with my fellow pledges and told "we will not put anything in your body or do anything to your body we wouldn't want to be done to ours, because we wouldn't want to be brothers with someone who could do that to us." and the brothers kept their promise. My chapter may be rare, but we have never had someone get sent to the hospital because of drinking even though we do drink, we've never had anyone get into a fight or physical altercation, and we've never had any form of sexual violence committed by our brothers or any of our party guests. I've never felt exploited, I've never been arrested, and I genuinely feel I contribute something to society through my fraternity service and that I've made friends I know will be there in a significant capacity for the rest of my life. The problem with hazing is definitely real, and important, but I just want to highlight that it's not every chapter of every fraternity that is part of the problem.
I go to Penn State. Very sad to see situations like these. Hope everyone who reads this comment drinks responsibly & takes care of their friends when they go out
Cool channel!
I live in Canada where fraternities don’t exist and all of this truly just seems so avoidable to me. What a sad sad story about this poor young man and his family. Thank you for covering this Phill!
Katie Walked crazy because here it’s a kind of status. If you fill out a application for a job and that person notices you're Greek and they're Greek they will most likely get picked.
ladydede88 that’s crazy honestly !
ladydede88 That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, I pray for the intelligence of our countrymen
Fraternities and Sororities do exist here! I went to UofT (Ontario) and there is Greek life here. I was in a sorority myself.
Yuliiya that’s crazy, I didn’t know that!! Thank you for filling me in!
Hazing is happening in other places as well. Although highlighted and made clear jobs such as military and police officers or anything that involves a “brotherhood” we see this kind of interaction.
I love the report and you guys did a great job. Wonderful interview as well.
you have to be dumbed down even further to join the police or military
It not only affects what you mentioned, but it also occurs with women in the name of "sisterhood" as well. It's not mutually exclusive to men, although I think it's more widely done by male organizations. Sororities and other places haze their new recruits as well. They may not do it the same way, but they can be just as cruel. It all needs to end.
JB what is your basis for this comment or is just a feeling you have?
@@MistressHorrors how do the sisterhoods do it and what places does this happen?
The military has it's own policies in place to curb hazing as much as possible. For the most part it's worked at least within the air force as far as I know. I know the more physically demanding the job you get within the service the more 'brotherhood' and 'sisterhood' it gets with those who work together though.
Totally inappropriate comment, but can't help it: I totally read Tim Pizza.
I think most people did, that is how our silly brain works
SAMEEEEE
Same
I totally thought I was getting a video about pizza. I was sadly wrong
He probably looked like one after the 12th or 13th shot.
I am an alumni member of Phi Delta Theta in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our fraternity has had alcohol free housing and zero tollerance hazing policies since the zeros.
Now im also not an idiot and i know that some chapters adhear to these rules better than others.
When i was an active i made a push to overhaul how even we did our new nember reqruitment and did a huge crackdown on anything that was even close to hazing. We arent even allowed to drink socially with our recruits.
Im proud of the work my chapter has done and the proactive steps Phi Delta Theta has taken. You can have fun and even parties without killing your members. You can build brotherhood by building each other up, not tearing each other down. My chapter routinely wins best Canadian chapter, and this is why. We actually believe the ideals we swear to.
I understand the idea behind banning hard alcohol, but I don't think that deals with the root of the issue... It may seem counter intuitive, but having small amounts of alcohol with family, such as a small glass of wine with supper, reduces the amount of abuse later on in life. Changing the way that drugs are looked at toward moderation and caution, not prohibition, will cause an actual impact on their abuse. The treatment for this issue needs to start before college and continue through formative years. The US is one of the worst places for alcohol abuse when compared to somewhere like France because France allows for people to experience small amounts of alcohol throughout life. Acclimation creates an environment of less abuse because it's not a new crazy thing that creates a really good feeling never had before... Discovering something that friends do and that has never personally been experienced before will increase the want to do that thing, this can be a healthy outlet like a sport or other beneficial activities, but often it's drugs or alcohol because no effort is needed to do those things and pleasure is received. Humans seek new and unknown pleasures because of the way brains work, but when acclimated to whatever those things might be the body's reaction is less overwhelming and more controllable. This problem needs to be solved by restructuring the education system and the way issues like drugs are talked about, it needs to be informative and comprehensive, not just a demonization of every mind altering substance. The same method should also be used in sex education, but that's another problem with other unique issues.
Ben Dawson couldn't agree more, where i live you can drink beer&wine at 16 and liquor at 18 and so you gradually get used to it and to me by the time i turned 19 it had already gotten boring and i just drink for big events or now and then
Hey Phil and Team. Love these videos and would like to put out a small request. I'm color blind to some shades of red its really hard for me to see the graphs with the red line and the dark background. Would it be possible for future videos that have graphs like this to have a bit more contrast, please? Keep up the good work!
+
@@nintando I was thinking "It's just me." Thanks all for the support.
In Sweden hazing is called pennalism and is now extremely rare at universities because people realized it's stupid. That doesn't mean it doesn't occur at all but it is not common or nearly as Alchohol heavy. But that is just my experience.
Pennalism? Vad heter det på svenska?
america is a melting pot of stupid people
@@greenie15 Det heter pennalism men det kallades också kamratförtryck. Det låter väldigt negativt eller hur.
The same in my country, it used to be really prevalent, often students would be walking on the streets with their clothes torn and smelling like shit asking for money to get their stuff back but now is really rare due to the dangers of it.
@@maxhellstrom3958 snack om
As a student in engineering in Canada, my university is known to have the biggest, loudest, pouring alcohol kind of party every week and not even once in my 2 years now did anyone even go to the hospital or had the ambulance escort them. Most of those who party really hard are freshmen ( 18-20 years old). Also, it's mostly student making sure everything is fine. We have like one officer and he is in his car outside, doing nothing. We have bars directly on campus and fridays are wild. During parties directly on campus alcohol is sold by other student to collect money for different projects and buy more alcohol. I don't understand the US. By the ways we don't have fraternities and sororities like the US, but we do have kind of all the group is invited kinda party and there is drinking game and again nobody had to go to the hospital. Calm down US🙄
I also want to add we have hazing for the freshman, mine was great. We were singing like 5 or 6 together. And the theme every year since now 5 years is consent. So they have to ask for your consent before doing anything. Absolutely nothing was humiliating. It was games. Visiting the city. Having different teams compete against each other, All While doing that Sober and the at the end of the day chill with a drink. US needs to calm down and have a good time. People wanting to fit so hard they endanger themselves and people wanting other people to hurt themselves to be part of the group. Wow I really can't believe it
In the US you need an alcohol license to sell alcohol. Interesting that your school just sells people alcohol, lol. Well, just speaking for where I live in the US though.
I also went to university in Canada (graduated a year ago) and my school was known for that kind of thing too. There were deaths but they were covered up really well. Only people who worked for certain departments of the school knew about it. From the outside looking in, the school probably seems like it doesn't have a problem but people were getting sick, injured, and even dying from too much alcohol every year.
Where I went to school it was a dry county we had to drive 40 min for our alcohol. With that being said the fraternities still had party's just about every weekend
I've been in college for three years. Greek life has never appealed to me. It's definitely an experience you can go without during college.
I was never interested, nor were most of my friends. One girl in my friend group joined, and eventually drifted out of the friend group because she was doing everything with her "sisters" after a while.
I personally joined a fraternity with some buddies of mine for a couple months. After some nights of hazing and harassment I decided to walk in the next day and quit and my buddies did the same thing. They desperately needed us and now they are dying off :)
That is very good, I am glad for you. You can make your own social circle without the fraternity system.
Maybe you and that fraternity are all losers thats why theyre dying and thats why they gave you a bid
Good morning Phil! I’m currently a 4th Biophysics major at UC Riverside, and also a 4th year member of my fraternity, Sigma Alpha Epsilon. We were the first official “non-hazing fraternity” in the US to try and set an example for all fraternities across the US. Last year I attended SAE’s National Eminent Archon(Presidents) Institute. We were the first fraternity to nationally implement the “no hard alcohol” rule for parties. As a school with no Greek row, I can’t stress how important it is in today’s age to move to the beer/light alcohol scene.You just don’t ever hear about anyone drinking too much beer and passing away. When freshman and sophomores first join fraternities they want to impress everyone, including themselves, and pound away at bottles of alcohol, and I was one of those dumb kids because I had never drank before college. Thankfully our fraternity has what we call “risk management” which are 10-15 sober brothers during parties who basically make sure if people are drinking too much that they radio to the bar that this certain person is on water only for the rest of the night and needs to have one member of risk watch over him/her. By doing this we have increased safety tremendously. There’s much more that I can tell you about this because it was such a big deal at our national convention, so if you would like to discuss this please let me know!
A fraternity on my college's campus was permanently suspended for rampant sexual assault at their parties. They would drug women at their frat parties and assault them. The rest of the frats on campus are furious at our campus newspaper for revealing the frat's crimes and I even saw some guys stealing bundles of the issue with the PSP frat story on the cover.
When "promoting camaraderie" became shaming, drugging and pressuring people into doing things they're unconfortable with.
Theres a difference between "promoting comradery" and hazing power plays. Hazing is not about conradery, it's about control.
Pushing people outside of their comfort zones with each other is a great form of bonding, so long as what they're doing is safe.
I think it's more of the cult-like environment in fraternities that make them dangerous, not necessarily the alcohol. There's a deadly need to belong to a frat and I don't understand it. Someone from a frat please let me know what you think because I bet I see something totally different as an outsider than someone who has been a part of it
The deadly need to be in a frat was what phillip explained early on. Frats have held about 75 percent of everyone in the u.s. government ever. They help people get in positions of power in this country weather you believe it or not. Its disgusting. I hate frats.
Mitti guys at a lot of schools can’t get into parties unless they’re in a frat, whereas girls can get in anywhere. If a guy wants to party and get girls, he essentially has to join a frat at some schools. That’s pretty enticing for a lot of people.
@@eggyegg777 i was a dj at 16. Started going to parties and doing drugs at 17 with a bunch of college kids. Its not the frats. Its who you know, and more importantly, can you talk your talk and walk your walk? Theres many variables that can get alcohol involved and being in a frat in college is one of the many variables.
I was apart of a fraternity at a small college in the midwest so I know my experience was different than most. That being said I never felt like my fraternity brothers and I made a cult-like environment we were all really accepting of people and would answer any questions someone had about our organization. Even our events that were to strengthen brotherhood were open to the public so anyone could ask to sit in and see what was going on. Also as for the "deadly need" at least at my college, it was not there. We also had a policy that the people that were joining were not pledges but associate members they had the same status as a full brother the only thing they could not do was be in the initiation ceremony. Sure there were some guys that were looking for the stereotypical fraternity experience a.k.a party all the time, but otherwise, most of the people that joined were trying to find their place at school or joining because they thought it would help them in some way.
Rockin' Roll this comment is categorically false, I’ve seen a number of my friends in minority’s frats get beat consistently to join. Why they did it is their problem, but the fraternity my white friend joined ( “white” fraternity) didn’t haze him. I think it’s ignorant to say there’s not a problem, and the elitism is certainly there. That doesn’t necessarily mean that there aren’t good people in fraternities either. I think it’s definitely more complex than frats are good or bad. People have different reasons for joining. Either way, it’s wrong to say the multicultural frats don’t haze, at least at my school they have no supervision, and therefore do horrible things to their pledges.
I was never interested in being in a fraternity. That's why I work parttime while being in college. I like money :)
I’m currently in a fraternity at USC and I can say firsthand that going through adversity with people who you just met forms a bond that people who haven’t gone through it can’t understand. I made a conscious choice to go through it and I came out with friends that I’ll have for life
I hate waking up, but waking up to a new video makes it a bit better :)
You ok bro?
Amen to that
Ikr, every morning is such a slog. It seems no matter how many hours I sleep I can't seem to NOT feel tired.
Amen
Ah yes, nothing better than waking up and watching a video on hazing deaths my favorite
I'm a current college freshman and I am staying away from Greek life. The main reason, I went to highschool with Tim Pizzia. Even if you did not know him personally, you still know him. Ever since he left, he has put a big hole in our town in NJ. But more importantly, he made me want to stay away from Greek life at my school. And because of that, finding friends at my school has been hard. I spend most nights and weekends in my dorm while others are out partying. I'm even transferring to a different School at the end of the year because I didn't not know that my school was a big party school until I started my first semester. School's really don't tell you anything about this side of student life on a Tour. I'm also leaving because I personally want to be closer to home (at Rhode Island rn, from NJ) and change if major.
But to kind of sum it up. I stay away from Greek life because of knowing Tim, as this has scared me in a way that is hard to explain in writing.
On a personal note, thanks for talking about this issue. It's still hard for me not to get emotional when I see and hear Tim in the news. But thank you.
F-town!
Don't leave because of the partying. Just join a group and focus on yourself.
Dont allow horror stories to keep you from having fun. Just don't join a frat. Make friends in class. Go after class and ask someone who looks nice if you can get their numbers for class related things. It will improve your grade and if you like them they will become fast friends. This works. Ive seen it many times.
An even quicker way is to get a part time job. I had to, but it was right off campus and everyone was a student. I made most my friends there. Go to the parties, dont do the drugs (there will be the option) drink until you get a strong ass buzz and build your confidence. College is where 70 percent of people come out of their shell, but many waste the years away being afraid.
As a soon to be graduate, its very important you know that besides that diploma, the most important thing you will learn is to talk to people and make friends in uncomfortable places. If you can do that in the real world (be a network connector in a sence), people will notice in the job market. I know that im just a rando online, but im being really serious. This could really help you become a success as long as you stay smart and know when to stop
You’ll find friends who actually care about you and who you don’t have to pay for, don’t worry.
All colleges are party schools.No matter where you go, there is going to be partying.
4:55 I live in Iowa. Back a few years ago there was kid who died from hazing. The fraternity had replaced alcohol with water thinking it would be safe. He died from water poisoning. He literally drowned to death internally. This problem is much deeper than alcohol :/ :/ :/
Imagine wanting to fit in that bad, imagine wanting power over people that bad 😭
As long as the drinking age is 21, college freshmen will continue to rush and pledge for frats so that they can party in college.
100% agree with this. I went to a 4 year after community college, so I was already 21, and if you where not in a frat you didn't really go to parties, yeah we have hangouts where we drank, but if you wanted that party feel you either had to be a girl to get in or be in the frat. The reason for the girls and frat members only being allowed was to makes sure that some random guy didn't come in and well rape someone.
There was a guy who fell out a 2 story building after being locked outside on the terrace (he was supposed to stay and sing songs for everyone). After that and seeing the slow/drunken response, I never went back.
From UIowa? If not, that's what happened here...
@@dinahmyte3749 not from UIowa it happened maybe 5 or 6 years ago at UIdaho.
@Desperadox23 thanks, but I think the real problem stems from everyone wanting to be a part of it, and willing to overlook things to do so. I was part of that problem too, unfortunately.
@Desperadox23 very true, unfortunately it took a death to wake me up. The only thing we can do is just offer alternatives- club sports in college REALLY helped.
@Desperadox23 thanks! And yes, I have :) best to you and yours!
..after refreshing three times I got a Masterclass ad and an ad for Honey before this excellent video. Thank you for sharing and reporting it. Keep up the great work!
I am a sophomore at a university in Colorado and only this semester (Spring 2019) decided to pledge to a fraternity. Although I understand my university is a special case as it is a bit smaller and the culture is very different due to it being a STEM-oriented institution, I really have not experienced anything near the level of hazing talked about in the video or the comments, or hazing of any kind. The most "hazing-like" experience I underwent was on my initiation night, having to know basic trivia about the fraternity, and even if you ended up getting it wrong, they would tell you the answer anyway after a few attempts. The brothers there are very respectful and did, at the very beginning of the pledge cycle, say that we weren't required to do anything we were uncomfortable with or that we didn't want to do. Also, being in the frat really helped me make some great friends and allowed me a lot more social opportunities. Honestly, I am very happy about my choice to join the frat I did, but I don't know how it differs from other national fraternities and what changes the mindset around hazing between them.
They said deaths started when they changed drinking age from 18 to 21, seems like we are working on a problem that was caused by one change.
Yeah, and tbf alcohol shouldnt even be produced period. Why do people want to consume something that is harmful to their liver? Just like drugs and tobacco.
@@Feynvel how old are you mate
Australia's drinking law is 18 and they don't have a hazing culture at all. It's a multi-faceted issue, and while one change might have been the catalyst that doesn't mean the solution now is to simply reverse it after 20 years.
@@Feynvel I really hope you're trolling and that you're not this stupid for real...
@@Feynvel You don't understand freedom do you? Freedom is about choices, you get to choose for yourself. If you want to be super healthy and exercise and only eat right you can do that, if you want to be a fat couch potato and eat crap all day you can do that to. It may be unhealthy but you have the freedom of choice, you young people don't understand how many people shed blood to get you that freedom and you want it taken away everywhere I look! Ban this, ban that, ban articles, ban ban ban! How about if you don't like an article don't read it, if you don't like a tv show don't watch it, if you don't want to be a drunk don't drink! You starting to understand how this freedom thing works yet?
We have fraternity hazing in Belgium too, but in most cities, fraternities are required to sign a contract with the university and the city that lays out strict rules. No raw meat, always two people with first aid training present, that sort of thing. Culturally, most fraternities are also opposed to forcing people to drink beyond their abilities, so that helps. In addition, the drinking age is 16 here, so everyone's a bit more used to alcohol already. Our student life isn't "Greek" though, it's mostly German-inspired (cf. Burschenschaft).
Yay a belgian :) my brother did his baptème i would be way to scared
@@sophied635 haha, I understand that :) I think a lot of it depends on which one you join as well, some are harsher/dirtier than others.
I am about to graduate and have been in my fraternity for two years. When I went through I got hazed via yelling and screaming, and if you participated you had to share a bottle with the people you were in the room with.
Once I got initiated my pledge class and the one before me started a movement to get rid of the yelling and screaming, and get rid of the drinking.
It hasn’t worked 100% and I hope that one day they will get to that point but it is better. Less yelling and more cheering, and mug less drinking but it’s not completely gone yet.
Changing a culture is one of the hardest things I have tried to do in my entire life. But I believe it is possible.
It’s all about the leadership and who is setting the example.
I helped recolonize a Fraternity chapter as an exec member 2 years ago and we all agreed that we wouldn’t tolerate any hazing. Since then we’ve only had 2 incidents and they were both punished accordingly.
This is all too common here in Tallahassee. FSU has a BIG problem with hazing.
Didn't Greek life get suspended
Yep. I studied my freshman year there in 2005. Not greek, but lots of free-range douchebags were present.
FIU frats has a big drug problem. Everyone I met who was in a frat did coke and or pills and the frats usually were suppliers for drugs on campus.
Be thankful to be waking up there are people out there who will never do that again
Now imagine you people there bringing up kids that aren't actually NPC retards, so suddenly everyone just says; "No thx!" to succh BS and the next generation might only know it from stories and history books because it simply died out. The only solution against retarded ideas is to let them die! The ideas... not the college students - of course. But I guess you can make a point that stupid ideas might die with stupid people...
Legislating a ban on hard alcohol doesn't mean fraternities don't give hard alcohol: source: am in a College where that's happening, and the parties go on
It's too minimize the situation, no law or ban will ever stop having, same reason how there's laws against murders yet that doesn't stop the crime.... It's just a step towards less tragedy
It allows for harsher punishments.
I'm a freshman in college and I'm not in a fraternity but my best friend is. I went to a frat party one time and they didn't force pledges to drink or do anything they didn't want to. In fact, 3 of them didn't drink or smoke so they were just sober the entire party.
Great piece. Thanks Phil and team ☮️💜
I live in a college town, and from my perspective (as a local, and having worked in multiple local businesses over the years) fraternities do nothing good. Either for the community or the boys. It creates a weird pack mentality where some of the worst decisions are constantly encouraged. Sororities are similar, but with less violence and date rape.
Yep, I never went to any college parties but even I knew the chants: Pike Spikes and such.
While I agree with you mostly, there are some good fraternities, mainly the ones that are honor societies
@@sheeplessknight8732 ✋ Shut up
@@gwendolyn1003 there are business fraternities that tend to be geared more towards academic success and community service
The pack mentality is absolutely cancerous in fraternities.
My university banned excessive drinking on campus property’s, so alcohol based “hazing” just moved to club members private apartments off campus
Unfortunately the bans have not worked at my college I dated a fraternity member and when I asked him about it AT FIRST when we JUST met he was like oh no no way we don’t do that as we got closer and began to date he opened up to me about all the terrible demoralizing things he had to do as a pledge (and admitting he now does it to new people now that he is older) the fraternity instills that members must deny that they were hazed or are hazing but they are actually just more secretive. It is 100% common and normal to hear ambulances every night especially on weekends
For a very long time I've believed that if you're enrolled in college, you should be able to consume alcohol. The "illegal clubhouse" function of the greek orgs beginning in 1971 is eye opening.
For a very long time I've believed that alcohol, and tobacco should just be illegal to manufacture. Anything that people become addicted to and can be hard to quit AND is harmful to your organs should be banned. Its just as fucking bad as drugs yet its legal.
I feel like the anti alcohol won't do as much without the anti hazing laws/programs/discussions focusing on dealing with hazing.
In my universitey in Denmark, we have many bars around campus in the universitey buildings, I've never heard of anyone dieing and ambulance rides are super rare.
So my proposal for the US is to relax a little and let adults (18+) have a drink in peace, probably people will take it more easy. Learn from your own history perhaps? Proibition was a massive failure, same thing for the segment of adults that live under it now.
I'm from the US, can't medically drink, but I've been saying this for years
I'm not really opposed to the idea itself - but I actually believe that it's less a problem of prohibiton laws and legal age as it is some 'cultural' things around fraternities per se.
Go ahead and change the legal age for alcohol consume - no objection - but if you want to get rid of THIS particular problem, that most likely wouldn't be a solution.
They aren't 'hazing' and binge drinking because they couldn't do so legally before - they are doing this because they are morons and end up in groups with ridiculous peer pressure like they are 12 years old. So I guess... it's more a problem around lack of intelligence and unhealthy self-esteem.
@@christopherzajonskowski7123 i agree that it will not solve all the drinking problems, I just think that since everyone is doing it anyway, why not make it legal, and get it out in the open, so people at least have the posibility of drinking in a more open and free environment, rather than only at underground illegal parties?
So I’m an alumni member of a music/social fraternity. And usually I LOVE the content produced on this channel and this article, while it is most important. I’m a little frustrated based off of the lack of depth.
There is a plethora of diverse Greek orgs on most campuses. Ranging from social, to professional. While the negative components of social fraternities/sororities are there and strong measures need to be created (and most ARE!) students need to stress on a proper fit.
What drives a lot of new students to fraternities I feel is the sense of family. The big point I have to make is that this family is ultimately a CHOICE!
During my probationary period I was offered many opportunities to back out of the family which created more drive for me to join based off of its safety! Now grant it I joined a social fraternity with a professional background in music. WE ALL HAVE A CHOICE!
What I would love to see is a video expanding on the diversity of Greek orgs. From professional to the typical social groups. And the governing bodies protecting students (IFC) and hopefully we can help show the diversity of orgs on campus, both positive and negative.
Now me making that comment I’m more than open having discussion 1 on 1. If there’s a light I can shed on I’m more than happy to!
CDMix12 I think I know which fraternity you’re in! My boyfriend is the president of the chapter at our school. :)
I have a friend, Ryan, who died a couple years ago due to a hazing incident. It was horrible and I’m so glad you’re bringing more light to this issue
Maybe I have too much pride, I would never go through hazing to join anything.
@@sirei01 If they threaten you then maybe, idk I'm not going to college in the states anyways. I wonder if Canada is any different :V
@@sirei01 If they are going that low you should too. Desperate situation requires desperate measures.
I've never really been a victim to peer pressure, and would certainly not let some dickhead who think they're above me because they have a fancy pathetic group, haze me into anything.
@@sirei01 I think people with low self esteem get hooked into it, if you're strong willed, then you wouldn't let anyone treat you like that
@@sirei01 "peer pressure" it's a term made up by people who are too weak to stand up for themselves and say no.
And bullying is completely different from peer pressure.
While in college and looking for them, I steered clear of any sororities for hazing reasons.
Same
I just graduated from college. I was in a sorority and we were completely against hazing. I have heard stories from friends from other Greek organizations and sports teams from many different schools, including my own who were hazed. I am very glad for the sorority I chose to be in and for my sisters who treated me like family.
I'm currently a sorority member at the University of Utah. Our campus is really lucky to have a community where hazing is prevented and immediately reported. When I was making my decision, I talked with a lot of current fraternity and sorority members about the Greek community and everyone was really open about the houses that had less than ideal reputations. Using those experiences as well as my own has helped me to ensure my own safety and the safety of my sisters (both in my own house and in other NPC houses). A lot of the houses on our campus have alcohol bans which help to prevent incidents at house parties, but not all of the houses are dry. A lot of the safety our students feel comes from a supportive community. Being in a sorority has been an overwhelmingly positive experience for me, but I definitely agree that it isn't for everyone.
I go to Uni at Buffalo and we unfortunately had a hazing related death last week. They didn’t even call the cops to help the kid.
It makes us question what kind of monsters we’re sharing these classrooms with.
who says uni in America
I’m in a sorority at my college, and hazing in fraternities is insane. Sororities here don’t do it as much (though I know at other colleges they do) but the hazing that happens in fraternity’s is awful and extremely dangerous
And yet every year, thousands of people will willingly go through it to be apart of those groups.
@@Lunights And pay for it lol
Indiana University student here: anti-hazing policy here has seen varying levels of success. Some fraternities have taken serious measures to stop here, others refuse, but have been kicked off quickly. Piazza family spoke here and it definitely helped drive anti- hazing policy here. We’re seeing improvement.
Lived on the same floor as Tim freshman year at penn state. Everything his parents said was totally true. Such a kind and loving soul. Rest in peace, you will be missed
This is one of reasons I quit drinking, LIFE rather than a few hours of a tipsy trip 🤕🙅🏻♂️
Or you could have learned to have a bit of self control and keep your drinking reasonable.
Cannabis is so much better tbh
My roommate freshman year had a seizure because he stopped taking his medicine just so he could drink at his fraternity. Sure seemed to me like drinking was compulsory in order to become a member
Nope, he was an adult capable of making his own decisions. And all I could do really was offer my thoughts about it as a friend
I'm a recent Clemson University graduate. The story of the death of Tucker Hipps a few years back is one of the most heart breaking stories of hazing gone wrong. He was forced to walk across a guardrail on a bridge over a river just outside of campus and fell to his death. The fraternity did everything possible to distance themselves from the tragedy, the vice president of student affairs at the University resigned. And NOBODY was punished. Justice was never served.
Somebody at my university (UMass) died this semester from a hazing ritual where they had to swim across the campus pond drunk
Seems like the most simple first step to stopping this phenomenon would be to reduce the drinking age back to 18
Michaeljack ... Back when the drinking age was 18, it was a real pain in the butt for everyone 21 and older. There is nothing worse than crowds of drunk teenagers falling all over, puking on other customers, getting into fights, and just generally acting like jerks. That is not to say that there aren’t people over 21 that act that way, but it isn’t as universal as it is for people under 21 in a bar or nightclub. Lowering the age back to 18 would be a huge mistake.
@@mscloudherder329 No it wouldn't. It would be a good thing. I'd even say lower it to 16 for beer and wine. That way by the time you go off to college, drinking isn't new/cool/edgy or whatever. They would mostly be over it and drinking wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Ms Cloudherder but surely slightly annoying teenagers are better than dead ones? Here in the UK the drinking age is 18 (though admittedly most start well before that), and in my experience that just means there’s less of a taboo (or thrill) surrounding drinking and binge drinking culture. Additionally, a lower drinking age can ensure that people who get into trouble seek the help they need; someone under 21 with alcohol poisoning might not go to the hospital for fear of being apprehended for underage drinking, and a lower legal drinking age means people can drink at university in safer environments instead of having to sneak it into a house party
Americans have this super strange relationship with alcohol where you seem to all despise alcohol and still idolize it in some strange ways.
Over in norther europe where I am there are some HUGE differences. One we don't really have fraternities here, we do have a full week of drinking and partying as an initiation of sorts for everyone to start off the new school year when we start university.
But we are also allowed to start drinking at 18, and usually most start earlier, most at 16 from my experience and some(like me) more between 14 and 15. But the most startling thing to me was learning that underage drinking was illegal in the US, as in the person drinking will get in trouble.
Here underage drinking isn't illegal, it is illegal to sell or provide alcohol to a minor, but the minor themselves are not doing anything illegal or wrong, although the police can make you empty out your drink if they catch you.
I think this is a huge difference in culture, and that this is the reason for all these problems in the US. It's the puritanism of it all, and the hard alcohol ban will do nothing but drive it further under ground. The US seeks to solve problems created by your puritan "ban everything" way to view the world and then try to make even stricter rules to solve the problems these bans have created.
@Zoan I might b e wrong, but i was under the impression that most american started drinking later although I don't doubt that a lot do start that early.
But either way absolutely the fact that the law will punish minors is not doing anything to help them out if the can't stop drinking or do have an addictive personality.
Obviously drinking can get you in trouble here as well, in terms of CPS getting involved in some cases or if you steal something, but the drinking itself will never get you personally in trouble, something I agree with. After all, the responsibility should be on the adult who provided the alcohol to a minor and not the minor, especially when the US justification for the 21 year old limit is that the brain isn't fully developed yet.
Yeah. It's as crazy as the UK punishing teens who have sex with each other. 🙃
@@sierrasouthwell9237 I don't know anything about that. But I know of a few cases of 18 and 17 year old having sex in the US where one was convicted and had to register as a sex offender.
And with the age of consent being 16 in the UK, well I'd think that it was way less likely that would happen in the Uk.
@@agilagilsen8714 Depends on the state. Most have Romeo and Juliet laws that allow a small gap in ages (i.e. one person 15, the other 18). Others put their age of consent at 16 or 17 (all but 12), so those cases couldn't have happened in any of those.
Eh, US has a lot of issues with their justice system, especially because there's still states that allow child marriage. However, I think that a higher age of consent + Romeo and Juliet law is a decent middle ground between protection and freedom.
Age of consent is 17 in my state with a 3 year age difference clause. Most 16 year olds were sophomores in my HS, so I'd be a little squicked out if it was socially acceptable (and legal) for old men to perv on them.
Omg im doing a research project on this thank you for a new source to use
My brother was in a fraternity while he attended college. He told me there was some sort of hazing, but nothing that would be news-worthy. More things trying to get them embarrassed. I’m very thankful for the type of fraternity my brother was in. A really great diverse group of guys who were very accepting during rush. They were some sorta crazy but did a lot of charity work. Anytime there was a party, they would kick out any person seeming rough or having too many drinks. They were no-nonsense. I wish that were the same for all fraternities.
Rest In Peace, Tim
The problem is the culture of secrecy. If fraternities didn't have secrets and secret rituals, transparency would already exist.
I agree, I am a member of a non-secret non-hazing fraternity (Delta Upsilon), and while I can't speak for every chapter, my chapter has always taken that to heart with all of our rituals being held publicly and for the most part even in a public room on campus. Our headquarters also put a lot of time into developing a new member process that not only doesn't haze, but educates new members on hazing and what to look out for. A lot of people in the comments here have said they don't see the benefits of Greek life, but my experience has been and continues to be a positive one. And I hope that in the future more orgs move into our style of building better men, rather than tearing them down with destructive behaviors.
A "Hard Alcohol" ban wouldn't solve the problem when people enter college they're supposed to be adults and they should be treated as such it's up to the parents to raise their children in a way that prepares them for adulthood all these rules in colleges are turning them into overpriced daycare centers.
I'm gonna scythes till it changes: It isn't an Extra morning show, it is the ONLY MORNING SHOW! Thanks Philip DeFranco!!
Thank you for covering this Phil, my sister went to high school with Tim and had a similar situation happen at a party she was at. His story gave her the bravery to call the police even while another person at the party was attacking her. His story saved at least one life, and I imagine it wasn't the only one.
I love how the people who have the privileged to go to the best schools, can't even manage to drink responsibility / run a club safely.
Im in a fraternity in Oregon and I feel like the culture is completely different at my school. We regularly have conversations, amongst ourselves and through public discussions, about the problems that Greek life can bring such as sexual assault or hazing and how to help stop these from being so frequent. We didn't experience any hazing aside from not being allowed to party with fraternity members until we're initiated because of the strong stance taken against hazing by the community. My fraternity has mostly just given me a large group of friends who instantly accept me no matter who I am. They aren't even that prone to toxic masculinity. Most guys are okay with being open about emotions and most have cried amongst each other at chapter. Its like religion but I can still use reason and evidence to come to my opinions on the nature of reality instead of faith (belief without evidence)
Do you go to a smaller university? The culture at smaller universities are different
Same here! I loved my Greek experience. My sorority sisters are still some of my best friends and biggest supporters even so long after graduation. We never hazed or even thought of it
@Desperadox23 I think that it isn't an exception. It is what it should be. I am in a women's fraternity as well, and we never haze. I love my sisters and everyone in greek life on my campus. This is what true greek life is. What many don't know is that many greek organizations have anti-hazing bylaws already in place. I personally don't know why anyone would want to hurt a sister or brother, but all I know is that my family never hurt me or anyone affiliated with greek life.
Edit: added word hurt (typo)
@Desperadox23 I think one of the big problems is that the news captures many of the bad incidents that happens but never really focus on the good. I don't really remember national news talking about how much money TKE raises for St. Jude's or how ΑΓΔ works with Feeding America and Meals on Wheels to fight hunger. A local social sorority on my campus focuses on helping our women's shelter. I understand that there are some places that have a toxic environment, but I would blame it more on the individuals, groups, organizations and the university for creating the environment and culture. Hazing is not unique to Greek life. It happens in sports teams, academic organizations, certain honor societies, and even small clubs. Hazing does not just happen in college but also in workplaces as well. Someone mentioned earlier that it is different on smaller campuses. Well, there are so many Greek affiliated campuses nationwide as well as around the world. Why is it that we only hear about the big guys? At plenty of the universities that are known for hazing, there is a culture that allows this to happen with or without Greek life. The smaller universities don't focus on the partying or hazing. I don't mean to sound rude or to be attacking you. I just merely want to bring out the side not often talked about.
Thank you for covering this. Tim was a personal friend. Hopefully videos like yours can inspire change.
I knew a guy who went through rush and I saw him one day with a huge bruise and knot on his forehead. I asked him what happened and he said he couldn't really talk about it (they weren't allowed to talk about the rush process of that frat) but what he did say was that he ran his face into a car door. He was the kind of guy who might've done that without going through rush (pretty clumsy lol) but the fact that he couldn't ever talk about what they were making him do, seemed like there was some fuckery going on. He had a few other questionable injuries but I stopped asking him because my brain couldn't handle the stupid.
Back in 2013 in Portugal we had 6 students drown in the Ocean while being hazed.
Praxe is not the same as american hazing.
But yes, deaths did occur.
@@Nichtzukennen what makes them different ? (asking out of sheer curiosity, not being passive-agressive) I dindt know wht haze meant, so I looked it up and found this "force (a new or potential recruit to the military or a university fraternity) to perform strenuous, humiliating, or dangerous tasks "
Margarida Pardal Id say Praxe is more of a acceptance ritual into your University Course performed by older students from that course,while hazing is similar but for getting into fraternities.They both involve trying to humiliate people and make them drink so they are similar in some aspects.
@@bruhvinski The drinking part is not exactly true, in my university at least, if the cabido de cardeais finds out that you are making your caloiros drink and getting them drunk then they can expel you from the praxe because you're not taking good care of your caloiros.
If they tell you to do something dangerous you can always decline your praxantes, they cannot force you to do it and they cannot expel you for it, and yet again, if the cabido de cardeais finds out that you are making your caloiros do dangerous things then they can expel you from the praxe for not taking good care of your caloiros.
Yes, they do humiliating things from time to time, but most of the time they are having fun and messing around. Sometimes you do stuff that is really fun that to an outsider may seem like you're being humiliated but you're not. Of course I cannot say that this is the same in all praxes as it depends in your praxantes.
Praxe is kind of a way to do ridiculous and fun stuff in public for the last time before entering adulthood.
Back in the old days, where praxe was not as regulated as nowadays, it served as a way to tell the future doctors, lawyers, etc... to not forget that they are not superior to other people and that they are in fact the same as someone like a construction worker.(not sure about this last part, I read it somewhere but it does sound legit)
This is in my university, I don't know how the praxe is in other universities but I guess that isn't much different.
There is no way coconuts are actual nuts
What, are you nuts?
Botany student here. Coconuts are actually a fruit and are in the same group of fruits as peaches, mangos and plums which are called Drupes aka stoned fruits. Please refer to this educational video to learn more about the kokonut nut. ruclips.net/video/w0AOGeqOnFY/видео.html
@@timothymacqueen643 Peanuts is not a nut too right?
@@Josefsson9013 peanuts aren't nuts
@Josefsson90 they’re legumes like peas and beans.
Hazing should be designed to be challenging, interesting, a bonding experience with your pledge class, but most importantly it should be safe. I was fortunate enough to be a part of a fraternity that knew how to accomplish this, but there are too many fraternities that can't seem to figure it out.
"Challenging, interesting, a bonding experience with your pledge class"... Is what I got out of my Fraternity 30+ years ago. My Fraternity brothers still get together as Alumni to do charitable events to this day (2019). Fraternity Brothers encouraged us to stay in school, study harder, do better. We pushed each other, physically, educationally, socially and spiritually. And we DRANK A LOT. The upper classmen looked out for the younger brothers, and watched it with the hazing with the pledges. This mission was passed from each officer's class to the incoming officers. This is how it should be. Things can get out of control, and some times it does, and that's where Alumni come back, lecture, hold accountable the officers in charge. Self regulation worked for us. I think the best comment I've heard on here is that the people helping keep a person alive shouldn't be punished for immediately trying to get the help needed. Thanks @EricMuccino .
As someone who goes to a Pennsylvania college and is in a sorority, thank you for covering this topic. This struck all of us very hard, particularly because it has become the stereotype of Greek Life. Not every sorority/fraternity is like this, and to be in such close proximity to a school where a hazing death happened was terrible. Everyone looks at us like we're the same, but it's not like that. Thank you for covering the topic with unbiased dignity.
My significant other went to PSU. I'm glad he stayed away from that stuff. It's so crazy and sad that hazing is still running rampant in high schools and colleges.
@Lady Wander Greek* cults*
@Lady Wander I agree. I never saw the appeal.
Hazing affects high schools too. In a high school nearby a boy had a broom stick shoved up his ass and went to the hospital. The kids who did it were hazing him.
That's not hazing, that sexual assault.
Definitely assault
@@EyeDewDie exactly
They were charged for assault, they just did it as a hazing ritual. Apparently they’ve been doing it for years (the football team)
Jason Brown it’s also hazing. Because it was a long standing tradition.
I am now a fraternity president and went through hazing. My fraternity doesn't have any hazing related to alcohol. The things we did as pledges were more physical and just small things to embarrass ourselves a bit: doing an Indian run up a mountain at 5am, having to build a pillow fort in our quad, eat an onion, always carry a grapefruit with me. These activities in all honesty brought me closer to my pledge class brothers as we all had to endure them and they never got to a point where I felt unsafe. I really like our approach towards hazing, and let me know if you have any questions I can answer for you guys.
When I first rushed my fraternity the President came to our first Pledge meeting and told every active member to leave. He specifically said and was dead serious that this fraternity and him specifically do not tolerate any form of hazing. He ensured us if you ever feel uncomfortable you are allowed to say no and walk away and will not be dropped because of it and if any member tries to push you to tell them that you have the presidents number on speed dial.