"You don't look so hot yourself, Herb!" *"I have cancer."* God that's so messed up but the delivery made it really fucking funny and I cant stop laughing
Bojack was famous herb was writer. Bojack before was a stand up guy(literally), Bojack let his demons and his vice corrupt them till he drowned in them.
Imaru Lewis Herb didn’t care about the job. He didn’t forgive Bojack not because Bojack didn’t support him. It’s because Bojack never bothered to mend fences after. Herb didn’t care about the job, he was upset because he gave his friend a starring role and Bojack repaid that act of friendship by abandoning him when he got famous. Bojack career is literally because of Herb and Bojack cares more about being a Star then one of his closest friends.
Did Herb knew how things would unfold between him and Charlotte? Beause if he did, then . . . . . . . . . I mean, Herb not forgiving Bojack is still understandable, but leading him to ruin another friendship permanetly for Bojack? Even for Herb that's pretty low
Nah there’s no way herb would purposely sabotage charlottes life. He was probably just nostalgic for the “good old days”, reminded of what he and Bojack used to have.
Yes, he should of because him not giving Charlottle a call was what screwed him because if Bojack called before he went he would've probably known before he had gotten to New Mexico that she had a husband and 2 kids. (so he probably wouldn't of gone if he knew because he was only trying to hook up with Charlotte [and escape from LA, but I'm guessing Bojack didn't want to go to NM just to hang out with kids and a man he doesn't even know, it was Charlotte's hospitality that kept Bojack there])
This is why I"m not sure I can handle a rewatching of the show just yet...I'll be screaming at the tv knowing what's coming around every corner and just muttering "oh you dumb horse of course". heh
@@harshityadavCamper the issue (in my opinion obv) was bojack only returned for an apology, and never returned to see him. It looks like if Bojack hadn't made it about getting forgiveness to feel better about feeling guilty, Herb would've actually been his friend. But that's not what Bojack was seeking: Bojack just didn't want to feel bad he abandoned his friend who is now dying of cancer.
@@harshityadavCamper I think, apologies don't need to end in forgiveness no matter how long ago a person hurt you. Expecially in Bojacks case, he didn't want to see Herb, he wanted people to reinforce his personal image. He can't handle any crack in his self esteem. Bojack wanted forgiveness so he could frame himself as a good person.
There's a difference between not being able to forgive someone and never wanting to see them again. Herb is okay with keeping in touch with Bojack in a friendly way, but for obvious reasons, he can never forgive what he did to him, and that doesn't necessarily mean he can't be his friend again, or even accept that Bojack is sorry. He just can't forgive what he did to him. And that's okay sometimes. If only Bojack thought so too, they probably could have kept hanging out until he died.
I thought this as well. Bojack was so obsessed with getting forgiveness that he never considered just trying to make a few new good memories before Herb died.
wherefancytakesme well they did have plenty of time to make up and hang out in the foreseeable future. Herb survived cancer. He was however, tragically and unexpectedly killed by his peanut allergy when a peanut truck crashed into him on the way back from his last chemo appointment.
would that be like 'forgive and forget' minus the forgiving and forgetting? excuse the redundancy lmao but i hope that makes some sense. Im not totally sure i get what you mean? psychologically speaking not being able to forgive someone would really skew your bias against them right? plus the guilt someone like bojack would/should feel. I can see they are enjoying themselves and i doubt should bojack continue seeing him would they be amazing friends again. i dont know, i just want to understand what you said more.
Bojack thought he needed Herb to forgive him. He thought if someone else, someone he hurt so bad, could forgive him, maybe he could forgive himself. Sometimes I feel like Bojack, if only all the people that trusted me and I hurt could forgive, maybe I could. But self forgive, and self love don't come from others. Yeah, if people support you and love you helps a lot. But only through you, can reach forgiveness
@@pikalink4914 More or less, basically. The thing is that isn't what Bojack wanted, he just wanted to be forgiven _so_ he wouldn't feel anymore guilt as opposed to genuinely wanting to truly make amends with Herb. As you can see in this video despite everything, Herb genuinely enjoyed Bojack's company and probably would have been OK with still hanging out. That's not to say either could truly let go; but at least the bitterness would have faded. If Bojack after Herb had rejected his policy accept that and accept that was the reality of the situation and acknowledge it to Herb, Herb likely would have been OK with still hanging out. Yes, it would NEVER be like before and it would NEVER be OK, but they were both grown men in their 50's who could have been mature enough to move forward. If it ever came up or something Herb would probably still make it clear he still won't forgive Bojack, but at the least Herb would probably stop talking about how Bojack stabbed him in the back and instead focus on making new memories with Bojack as wiser people. And Bojack would have to carry the guilt that even though they were friends again that nothing could ever truly make it OK and have to live with that; but at least Bojack could better come to peace with the decision than the explosive fight they had right after this. "I did something terrible, I can't make it OK, but Herb knows I'm genuinely sorry and while he won't forgive it I can have a new friendship with him until he passes." Basically Bojack was incredibly insincere in this entire endeavor and only really cared about making HIMSELF feel better at the expense of this dying man, Herb saw through it and called him on his shit. But he enjoyed this and wouldn't have minded continuing being friends with Bojack until he died if Bojack was sincere and just accepted that the clock can't be turned back but it can keep moving forward and new memories can be made. But Bojack's a douche, so yeah.
He was the one who put Bojack in the zone, in the map. Without him, Bojack would have still been a bartender or lived like his dad before meeting Beatrice.
I do think Herb wanted bojack to come to his house to get the last bit of joy at him until Diane helped to put herb anger at bojack aside and it hinted deep down herb might of finally let go of the past until bojack try to say sorry and that moment Herb anger relit and reformed at the point that Horsing round and bojack became his white whale again
Oof. Imagine if Bojack just accepted that Herb didn't forgive him instead of trying to force closure and forgiveness. I would like think the friendship would have maybe picked up a bit. :(
Its really sad that Herb was legit happy about Bojack coming over, it really shows that he really was a kind person and did all those things because he wanted to do good and not some ulterior fake celebrity motive, you can even see how he rolls his eyes when Bojack talks about hosting the kids awards, because Bojack doesnt do anything that isnt for himself, the most selfless person was best friends with the most selfish
Not only that, but him not forgiving Bojack could've actually been a wakeup call for him if Bojack had accepted it and behaved like an adult about it. Everyone who keeps forgiving Bojack and giving him new chances sure isn't doing him any favours. Holding Bojack accountable might be the best thing anyone can do for him. Herb was probably the best friend Bojack ever had.
Honestly, if Bojack just left and instead called later to check up on Herb every now and again before his death - I feel like they could've rekindled something of their past friendship. Instead of "I feel guilty, now let me just get this over with".
Harb said that there is no other side and that 'this is it', I remember that, but if he saw Bojack right now at the very finale of the series, what do you think he'd feel about him?
Maybe Bojack should have accepted that Herb wasn't going to forgive him, and he had a good reason which was proved when Bojack shown that he was expecting his forgiveness: he wanted to feel clean, free of guilt, responsibility of what happened 20 years ago. That's the problem nowadays: some want to use the apology as a pretext of being guilt-free, act like nothing happened and even take advantage of do what they want when in reality is for the person who was wronged, not the other way around.
The problem is the latter is how it's done in TV shows. Friends have huge falling outs for drama then get back together at the episode's end to preserve the status quo. Bojack thinks this is how things are handled in real life so it's why he's such a mess.
I'm glad there was no bad blood between them and Herb can die happy knowing he regained a friend. What a great ending to this scenario. This is the happiest series ever made.
I do like the honesty of Herb saying he moped around a little after getting fired. Too often we focus on having to get back up as soon as we get knocked down and not that it's okay not to be okay for a time.
Pretend that this is the last episode. Bojack took Herb's rejection to heart, did some self discovery, and went to rehab. So many people could have avoided getting hurt that way.
Herb is incredibly likable and actually seems to be trying to diffuse some of the tension about Bojack and his past by making jokes about it. This scene hurts because it's so blatantly obvious that Bojack and him could have stayed great friends if Bojack kept in touch. He effectively torched a close friendship because he was worried over what actually only amounted to about 15 seconds of awkward silence.
What a wholesome scene. It's a good thing Bojack didn't go back to try and get anything more from him or else their relationship might've been permanently ruined or something
Bojack is the perfect example of self destructive behavior.He could have just leave and forget about the whole apology and just move on,but his guilt ruined that for him,causing him and herb to fight and for herb to decide to never forgive him.Same thing goes for Charlotte.Had he not decided not to kiss her or have sex with daughter,she wouldn’t hate as much as herb.Makes you thing on what would happen if your self destructive behavior would do to you
@@watermelgurlie10yearsago51 He was petty, arrogant, entitled, vangeful, unempathic, impulsive, violent and willing to do bad things for the rest of his life. What does all that make him?
@Master-Works I'm sorry, egotistical? Herb didn't even care that he lost his job. All he wanted was someone to support him the way he supported Bojack. He KNEW that hypocritical lesbian Angela could've manipulated Bojack against him, he only wanted Bojack to be his rock when things were really dark for him the same way any good friend would be. Bojack didn't even try to reach out to him because he wanted to focus on getting Secretariat off the ground.
All you had to do was walk away there, Bojack. This is like when you over-explain jokes, and I understand why you do it and I do it sometimes too, but man, you almost mended things there if you just hadn't been so anxious about mending things.
roguishpaladin This is my problem in life. Currently my friend resents me for something I did. I tried making things right but only made the situation worse. If I just let things be and give him space he wouldn’t have been as mad as he is now.
@@jinxthatsme2317 I'm in a similar situation and have been anxious about if just not adding worse to it is cowardly and running away or the right thing to do and not picking a healing scab. Saw one of the friends involved today for the first time in a long time. Made small talk and kept it moving. Its hard but it proved to me i need to say less (especially to myself) and speak more through my actions and choices instead. Hope your situation works out well. Forgive yourself and try to move forward positively. If it ever comes up, acknowledge and apologize and keep moving ahead.
The thing that's both funny and sad is that if Bojack would have simply left things here Herb would have passed away and their last time together would have been somewhat decent. But he just had to push things and try to get Herb to forgive him. Think that is one of the big lessons Bojack has personally taught me. That some mistakes can't be fixed or forgive and you simply have to accept that and try to pick up what's left of the pieces and move on with your life.
You know, if Bojack didn't apologized right away, but said "see you around", and actually visited him regulary, Herb could've forgive him (or at least be conflicted about this).
@@danjayson1 lol what? He had a drug addiction in season 5 and became aggressive and season 6 he may have seemed like he found peace but he quickly went back to his old ways during that interview, showing how easy it was for him to resort back to his old behavior and that he still had work to do. There is no Bojack in this series that would’ve done what OP described, maybe a future Bojack but none on this show
@@adamgriffith-smith9106 Disagree. When Bojack got to the point that he'd left Hollywoo behind and started teaching, prior to the reporters looking into the Penny/Sarah Lynn story when he relapsed, he really was making strides towards being a better person.
this episode really encapsulates what it is to lose a good friend. Usually when someone doesn't like you you can write it off with a "they don't really no me" or a "he's an idiot anyway", but when it's a friend, none of those excuses work anymore
@@supahcomix conspiracy? you can freely see the shareholders, CEOs, new anchors, and spouses of news anchors- and every single public figure in every news company, on wikipedia. I promise you, you will find all of them are jewish. This is free and public information.
When I watched this episode for the first time, I didn't understand why it was called 'The Telescope' and it took me the longest time to figure it out. When I did though, the symbolism absolutely blew my mind. BoJack is the one holding the telescope, so he's holding it the right way. From his perspective, it makes it look like he and Herb are still 'close' friends, and we know this is true because BJ is legitimately too selfish and cowardly to see that this is not the case anymore. But from Herb's perspective, the telescope is held in the wrong way. He's seeing the reality, that BJ is quite literally far away from him now that they've drifted apart after that betrayal. That's why this episode is called The Telescope, not only because of the literal telescope but because of how it represents two perspectives within the same relationship. God, whoever thought of this is a freaking genius
BoJack’s biggest problem is that for the life of himself he does not know how to quit while he’s ahead. He keeps tryna soldier his way through and onto things to reach goals he’s not even entirely sure he wants...
His greetings and dialogues before talking the electrodomestic really overshadow his answer to Bojack's apology. "...It's because he ruined my life." He just said it because he is still Mad and resentful with Bojack, because as we can see, he moved on and is rich, met famous people, made new and successful projects and kept old and new friendships, so in which way did Bojack destroy him? Honestly, by making a list of what Herb has done and had, it makes me think that Bojack didn't and still doesn't have the same wits, charisma and enterpreneur mind as Herb, so he wouldn't have lived fine like Herb if he had backed him up, or at least he would have still depended on Herb.
Bojack destroyed his life - it doesn't mean he wasn't capable of building something new afterward. Still, one also regrets or resents the loss of those deep friendships that form your budding adult life, especially if you were comfortable in it before it was upheaved.
He didn’t destroyed his life per-se but is important to remember that one of the things Herb valued the most was family and at the time that was what Bojack was to him and probably even more (there were some implications that he might have harbored some romantic feelings toward him). He wanted him to look for the rest of the Hosrsin’ around crew, So when Bojack betrayed him and left him on the dust, it most likely was a tremendous blow to him. It doesn’t help Bojack never tried to contact him in 20 years
I feel when they started to rebond thanks to Diane Herb may of finally let go and moved on from the past and may of felt good to finally renember to old time but when Bojack came back for forgiveness I think it relit his anger and made him more angery than before as I felt he invited bojack to get the last bit of joy showing he was never going to forgive him
He made it clear that he wasn’t angry about getting fired, he was hurt that Bojack didn’t even bother to check up on him for the next 20 years after the show. Not a phone call, how you doing, nothing. Had Bojack tried to reach out to him after the he was fired their friendship most likely would’ve still survived.
@@roguishpaladin This whole scene almost makes me grateful for my Aspergers. And I guess I should be grateful that what few friendships I WAS able to build, I didn't destroy them like Bojack did
Its sad to think what could have been if not for Bojack's selfishness and cowardice. Herb losing his job did not mean that their friendship had to end.
I know the whole scene is brilliant,but can we stop at 1:20,and pay respect to the best proof of original language is always the best way to watch Bojack Horseman?
@@Master-Works he was all those things because 1.he got kicked out from the show HE CREATED for being gay 2. He is dying of cancer 3. His former best friend, the only person he thought he could trust, not only betrayed his trust and chose his job over him then cut all ties with Herb, but then he just appears at his house 30 years later saying sorry not because he actually feels bad but because he feels he NEEDS to. If anything Bojack is the egotistical one here
I love how for a mere moment, Bojack and Herb presently agree on something, even as small as the blender they both have. It's cool to acknowledge that even if your feelings have turned on someone, you can still strike a right chord.
0:15 It hit Bojack harder than many people believe considering the fact that Bojack first hated Herb for embarrassing him in his stand-up performance and the first thing he tells him personally was "Get cancer, jerkface" accompanied with a middle finger.
And then Bojack goes home and his last interaction with Herb is a positive one. What a happy show, I hope the rest of the seasons are fun like this one!
“If Herb’s your friend, he’ll forgive you.” I kind of agree with Angela on that one thing. I actually think he actually would’ve forgiven Bojack if he had just been there after he betrayed him
I think that’s the one thing a lot of people miss. It wasn’t just not standing up for Herb it’s the fact that Bojack got so wrapped up in his own guilt, that he just abandoned Herb entirely. Herb was at a low point and the one friend he thought he could count on abandoned him in every possible way.
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy. It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you. While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
Watching Bojack and Herb zing about the Vitamix was so sad. Bojack was put into a rough spot with deciding to abandon Herb but dammit it was a shitty decision, so shitty that he lost his best friend over it.
Not really, he still owned him the apologize and after not being forgiven Bojack should had left. Herb was still deep down mad at Bojack but at least Herb could be mad at him knowing that Bojack was sorry instead of fighting with him.
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy. It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you. While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
I wonder how differently things would've played out if, instead of trying to feel absolved of his guilt, BoJack just tried to keep in touch with Herb and visited him whenever he could. It would've meant a lot more and been far more apologetic than "Hey, I feel bad about what happened and I'm sorry."
Herb and Bojack still had good chemistry after all those years... until it happened... wonder what Bojacks life would look like if he keep Herb in his life... :(
God Herb is such a sweetheart. It's a shame that him and Bojack started drifting apart even before the whole firing situation. I feel as though if Bojack and Herb had just stuck by each other maybe Bojack could have been a better person.
I just noticed Tina has witnessed the worst of bojack on her eyes, him fighting herb for the telescope, Beatrice and her breakdown as Bojack threw the doll, yeah she doesn't has the context but just saw that horrific scene...damn
Throughout the series I couldn't help but be more more inclined on liking Herb and his influence on Bojack. Yes, everybody says that withouth Herb, Bojack would be nothing and that's true, all the reminicing from Bojack shows how Herb was naturally a good and caring person and how he devoted his life to help a friend. and, No to defend Bojack but when Herb tells him that he never called in 20 years and Bojack says "I wanted but..(and get's interrupted)", you must have this experienced before otherwise you wouldn't understand. For one is not easy to call someone after they did something terrible, when the situation is horrible one feels like calling the next day, maybe 2 or 3 days later is too soon and don't have the encourage to face the person and ask for forgiveness, the days go by then realize that a year has passsed, two years, three years... I understand Bojack that he meant to call sooner or later, but as the days go by, once you think about it its been too long and makes it more difficult to try to make amends with the person, you live with that little dark concern lurking in your thoughts every now and then and you can't get rid of. Looking for forgiveness is a pacifier to calm that thought and have some mental peace, but not the cure, you'll always leave with that and have to learn to deal with it. I never expected Herb not forgiving Bojack, and he's right, sometimes we don't deserve forgiveness so we feel good about ourselves for only soon after only cause us to do another bad thing again and ask for forgiveness again and again. Not forgiving should be a thing that people should learn, we all are taught and doctrinized based on relegion that forgiveness is what we all should do (it is right in most part) but keep it to yourself and set feet on the ground and be realistic, we don't deserve forgiveness often times.
If only Bojack didn't ruined it, maybe he and Herb would have slowly restore their friendship. If Bojack just accepted his lost instead of trying to force the forgiveness.
I think he was even trying to give him tough love. Herb told Bojack what he needed to hear, and in a way was the catalyst for Bojack to start trying to be better.
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy. It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you. While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
could have just said im sorry and left it there even if herb wouldnt forgive him for that since as you can see herb enjoyed most of the time bojack spent there
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy. It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you. While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
"You don't look so hot yourself, Herb!"
*"I have cancer."*
God that's so messed up but the delivery made it really fucking funny and I cant stop laughing
The fact that it was just silent afterwards made it that much funnier.
Kinda the equivalent of that Canadian PSA with the baby shower, and the mood is ruined by one of the shower gifts being a r-pe whistle.
@@sebastianemond5313 Lmao wtf
@@shrisiva4016 Exactly!
To be fair he's quite rude
Herb is actually a really good friend. Too bad a string of bad decisions placed him in Bojack's orbit. Lol
well he had a good life. And still had a couple friends later on.
Herb had lots of other famous friends, and lived pretty comfortably based on his house
Bojack was famous herb was writer. Bojack before was a stand up guy(literally), Bojack let his demons and his vice corrupt them till he drowned in them.
@Disposable Email The thing is he never dwelt on what he did and to avoid guilt thought it all worked out for the best
Imaru Lewis
Herb didn’t care about the job. He didn’t forgive Bojack not because Bojack didn’t support him. It’s because Bojack never bothered to mend fences after. Herb didn’t care about the job, he was upset because he gave his friend a starring role and Bojack repaid that act of friendship by abandoning him when he got famous. Bojack career is literally because of Herb and Bojack cares more about being a Star then one of his closest friends.
"You should actually give her a call"
NO. NO YOU SHOULD NOT.
Lol
Did Herb knew how things would unfold between him and Charlotte? Beause if he did, then . . . . . . . . . I mean, Herb not forgiving Bojack is still understandable, but leading him to ruin another friendship permanetly for Bojack? Even for Herb that's pretty low
Nah there’s no way herb would purposely sabotage charlottes life. He was probably just nostalgic for the “good old days”, reminded of what he and Bojack used to have.
Yes, he should of because him not giving Charlottle a call was what screwed him because if Bojack called before he went he would've probably known before he had gotten to New Mexico that she had a husband and 2 kids. (so he probably wouldn't of gone if he knew because he was only trying to hook up with Charlotte [and escape from LA, but I'm guessing Bojack didn't want to go to NM just to hang out with kids and a man he doesn't even know, it was Charlotte's hospitality that kept Bojack there])
This is why I"m not sure I can handle a rewatching of the show just yet...I'll be screaming at the tv knowing what's coming around every corner and just muttering "oh you dumb horse of course". heh
Herb actually seems like an absolute delight to be around
he seems like a nice BoJack, minus the icky bits
Not forgiving a dude for a mistake 20 years ago is stupid. Especially if you like that guy. But again, Bojack should have apologised long long ago.
@@harshityadavCamper the issue (in my opinion obv) was bojack only returned for an apology, and never returned to see him. It looks like if Bojack hadn't made it about getting forgiveness to feel better about feeling guilty, Herb would've actually been his friend. But that's not what Bojack was seeking: Bojack just didn't want to feel bad he abandoned his friend who is now dying of cancer.
@@harshityadavCamper he would’ve forgiven him if BoJack actually felt sorry
@@harshityadavCamper I think, apologies don't need to end in forgiveness no matter how long ago a person hurt you. Expecially in Bojacks case, he didn't want to see Herb, he wanted people to reinforce his personal image. He can't handle any crack in his self esteem. Bojack wanted forgiveness so he could frame himself as a good person.
There's a difference between not being able to forgive someone and never wanting to see them again. Herb is okay with keeping in touch with Bojack in a friendly way, but for obvious reasons, he can never forgive what he did to him, and that doesn't necessarily mean he can't be his friend again, or even accept that Bojack is sorry. He just can't forgive what he did to him. And that's okay sometimes. If only Bojack thought so too, they probably could have kept hanging out until he died.
I thought this as well. Bojack was so obsessed with getting forgiveness that he never considered just trying to make a few new good memories before Herb died.
wherefancytakesme well they did have plenty of time to make up and hang out in the foreseeable future. Herb survived cancer. He was however, tragically and unexpectedly killed by his peanut allergy when a peanut truck crashed into him on the way back from his last chemo appointment.
would that be like 'forgive and forget' minus the forgiving and forgetting? excuse the redundancy lmao but i hope that makes some sense. Im not totally sure i get what you mean? psychologically speaking not being able to forgive someone would really skew your bias against them right? plus the guilt someone like bojack would/should feel. I can see they are enjoying themselves and i doubt should bojack continue seeing him would they be amazing friends again. i dont know, i just want to understand what you said more.
Bojack thought he needed Herb to forgive him. He thought if someone else, someone he hurt so bad, could forgive him, maybe he could forgive himself. Sometimes I feel like Bojack, if only all the people that trusted me and I hurt could forgive, maybe I could. But self forgive, and self love don't come from others. Yeah, if people support you and love you helps a lot. But only through you, can reach forgiveness
@@pikalink4914 More or less, basically. The thing is that isn't what Bojack wanted, he just wanted to be forgiven _so_ he wouldn't feel anymore guilt as opposed to genuinely wanting to truly make amends with Herb. As you can see in this video despite everything, Herb genuinely enjoyed Bojack's company and probably would have been OK with still hanging out. That's not to say either could truly let go; but at least the bitterness would have faded. If Bojack after Herb had rejected his policy accept that and accept that was the reality of the situation and acknowledge it to Herb, Herb likely would have been OK with still hanging out. Yes, it would NEVER be like before and it would NEVER be OK, but they were both grown men in their 50's who could have been mature enough to move forward. If it ever came up or something Herb would probably still make it clear he still won't forgive Bojack, but at the least Herb would probably stop talking about how Bojack stabbed him in the back and instead focus on making new memories with Bojack as wiser people. And Bojack would have to carry the guilt that even though they were friends again that nothing could ever truly make it OK and have to live with that; but at least Bojack could better come to peace with the decision than the explosive fight they had right after this. "I did something terrible, I can't make it OK, but Herb knows I'm genuinely sorry and while he won't forgive it I can have a new friendship with him until he passes."
Basically Bojack was incredibly insincere in this entire endeavor and only really cared about making HIMSELF feel better at the expense of this dying man, Herb saw through it and called him on his shit. But he enjoyed this and wouldn't have minded continuing being friends with Bojack until he died if Bojack was sincere and just accepted that the clock can't be turned back but it can keep moving forward and new memories can be made. But Bojack's a douche, so yeah.
Herb was definitely the better comedian
"Juice control the media" He might not have had that lead star quality, but he definitely was the more talented comedian.
There all just holes to the ocean, lady!
He was the one who put Bojack in the zone, in the map. Without him, Bojack would have still been a bartender or lived like his dad before meeting Beatrice.
Juice controls the media
Its a care bear! I finally get it!
What?
Jesus Alvarez Herb's nurse is a bear.
+UndyingWladeslaus oh, nice.
Titan Uranus Intensive care bear.
HOW MANY DIFFERENT INSIDE JOKES AND LAYERS OF COMPLEXITY DOES THIS SHOW HAVE OH MY GOD
Just Bojack being there made Herb happy. Imagine had Bojack visited at some point? The grudge wouldn't be as large.
I do think Herb wanted bojack to come to his house to get the last bit of joy at him until Diane helped to put herb anger at bojack aside and it hinted deep down herb might of finally let go of the past until bojack try to say sorry and that moment Herb anger relit and reformed at the point that Horsing round and bojack became his white whale again
I don't think Herb would have held a grudge if Bojack apologized immediately and was consistently there for him.
DoctorWeeTodd well yeah that was the point. But Bojack felt too ashamed.
Oof.
Imagine if Bojack just accepted that Herb didn't forgive him instead of trying to force closure and forgiveness. I would like think the friendship would have maybe picked up a bit. :(
Jovana Sanchez by the way he talked later, he probably would have forgiven bojack immediately had bojack visited him right after
Herb’s insults were pretty disturbing.
yeah...They way he covers his angry outbursts with laughter and jokes make feel uneasy, knowing full well he had some animosity towards bojack...
I dont think they were. Bojack betrayed him and them went 20yrs without even a phone call. Herb has a right to be angry about it
Herb just needed to vent, and realized that being angry at Bojack really served no purpose. Besides the best revenge is always just to be happy.
@@Watcher8559 true especially when you’re dying. There’s no point of being angry anymore.
DistHERBing
Its really sad that Herb was legit happy about Bojack coming over, it really shows that he really was a kind person and did all those things because he wanted to do good and not some ulterior fake celebrity motive, you can even see how he rolls his eyes when Bojack talks about hosting the kids awards, because Bojack doesnt do anything that isnt for himself, the most selfless person was best friends with the most selfish
It's a great contrast. The only bad thing Herb did was literally not bad at all.
Bojack however, yikes.
Not only that, but him not forgiving Bojack could've actually been a wakeup call for him if Bojack had accepted it and behaved like an adult about it. Everyone who keeps forgiving Bojack and giving him new chances sure isn't doing him any favours. Holding Bojack accountable might be the best thing anyone can do for him.
Herb was probably the best friend Bojack ever had.
"Come in, you're letting out all the cancer"
I snorted
Honestly, if Bojack just left and instead called later to check up on Herb every now and again before his death - I feel like they could've rekindled something of their past friendship. Instead of "I feel guilty, now let me just get this over with".
Harb said that there is no other side and that 'this is it', I remember that, but if he saw Bojack right now at the very finale of the series, what do you think he'd feel about him?
@@simple-commentator-not-rea7345 Probably would have treated him exactly how he treated him in the dinner party. Herb has kind of a soft tone.
Maybe Bojack should have accepted that Herb wasn't going to forgive him, and he had a good reason which was proved when Bojack shown that he was expecting his forgiveness: he wanted to feel clean, free of guilt, responsibility of what happened 20 years ago.
That's the problem nowadays: some want to use the apology as a pretext of being guilt-free, act like nothing happened and even take advantage of do what they want when in reality is for the person who was wronged, not the other way around.
The problem is the latter is how it's done in TV shows. Friends have huge falling outs for drama then get back together at the episode's end to preserve the status quo. Bojack thinks this is how things are handled in real life so it's why he's such a mess.
He didn’t know how much time Herb had left. He could have been dead the next day.
At 1:48 Herb rolls his eyes when Bojack turns around. I love those fun little details
No he was rolling his eye at Bojacks comment
I'm glad there was no bad blood between them and Herb can die happy knowing he regained a friend. What a great ending to this scenario. This is the happiest series ever made.
💀
This series is dark
"I have cancer." After Bojack joked about him not looking so great.
That literally made me laugh when I shouldn't have.
Herb rolled his eyes when Bojack said the teen choice award bit. Like he realised Bojack didn't change after all these years.
It’s heartbreaking to see such a once wonderful friendship end like this.
But at the same time, Herb is completely in his right not to forgive Bojack.
Bojack: you don’t look so hot yourself.
Herb: I have cancer
Everyone: ... yikes
Zoinks
I do like the honesty of Herb saying he moped around a little after getting fired. Too often we focus on having to get back up as soon as we get knocked down and not that it's okay not to be okay for a time.
Pretend that this is the last episode.
Bojack took Herb's rejection to heart, did some self discovery, and went to rehab.
So many people could have avoided getting hurt that way.
Or maybe therapy.
You dont want that! For everything to be fine?
How. dreadfully. boring!
@@nathanseper8738 He needs both. Or at least needed rehab.
@@driver_4151 Life. Is a never ending show my friend,
It's kinda weird how this scene is so funny and sad at the same time.
Herb is incredibly likable and actually seems to be trying to diffuse some of the tension about Bojack and his past by making jokes about it.
This scene hurts because it's so blatantly obvious that Bojack and him could have stayed great friends if Bojack kept in touch. He effectively torched a close friendship because he was worried over what actually only amounted to about 15 seconds of awkward silence.
"You don't look so hot yourself herb!"
"I have cancer"
What a wholesome scene. It's a good thing Bojack didn't go back to try and get anything more from him or else their relationship might've been permanently ruined or something
Bojack is the perfect example of self destructive behavior.He could have just leave and forget about the whole apology and just move on,but his guilt ruined that for him,causing him and herb to fight and for herb to decide to never forgive him.Same thing goes for Charlotte.Had he not decided not to kiss her or have sex with daughter,she wouldn’t hate as much as herb.Makes you thing on what would happen if your self destructive behavior would do to you
He did owe Herb an apology, too bad Herb was such a egotistical and petty baghole
@@Master-Works herb had every right to not forgive Bojack, doesn’t make herb a bad person at all
@@watermelgurlie10yearsago51 He was petty, arrogant, entitled, vangeful, unempathic, impulsive, violent and willing to do bad things for the rest of his life. What does all that make him?
@Master-Works I'm sorry, egotistical? Herb didn't even care that he lost his job. All he wanted was someone to support him the way he supported Bojack. He KNEW that hypocritical lesbian Angela could've manipulated Bojack against him, he only wanted Bojack to be his rock when things were really dark for him the same way any good friend would be. Bojack didn't even try to reach out to him because he wanted to focus on getting Secretariat off the ground.
@@lukerosales5879I think its cuz he didn’t want to face the music. Coward…
All you had to do was walk away there, Bojack. This is like when you over-explain jokes, and I understand why you do it and I do it sometimes too, but man, you almost mended things there if you just hadn't been so anxious about mending things.
I know! They were good with each other until Bojack went back to “apologize”
carmen a. gonzalez rios EXACTLY
roguishpaladin This is my problem in life. Currently my friend resents me for something I did. I tried making things right but only made the situation worse. If I just let things be and give him space he wouldn’t have been as mad as he is now.
@@jinxthatsme2317 I'm in a similar situation and have been anxious about if just not adding worse to it is cowardly and running away or the right thing to do and not picking a healing scab. Saw one of the friends involved today for the first time in a long time. Made small talk and kept it moving. Its hard but it proved to me i need to say less (especially to myself) and speak more through my actions and choices instead.
Hope your situation works out well. Forgive yourself and try to move forward positively. If it ever comes up, acknowledge and apologize and keep moving ahead.
carmen a. gonzalez rios “You’ve got to stop asking people if they get it.”
The thing that's both funny and sad is that if Bojack would have simply left things here Herb would have passed away and their last time together would have been somewhat decent. But he just had to push things and try to get Herb to forgive him.
Think that is one of the big lessons Bojack has personally taught me. That some mistakes can't be fixed or forgive and you simply have to accept that and try to pick up what's left of the pieces and move on with your life.
Actually you can forgive about anything. The only thing that keeps you from forgiving is you.
Please come in, you're letting out all the cancer.
You know, if Bojack didn't apologized right away, but said "see you around", and actually visited him regulary, Herb could've forgive him (or at least be conflicted about this).
Season 5 or 6 bojack would have.
@@danjayson1 lol what? He had a drug addiction in season 5 and became aggressive and season 6 he may have seemed like he found peace but he quickly went back to his old ways during that interview, showing how easy it was for him to resort back to his old behavior and that he still had work to do. There is no Bojack in this series that would’ve done what OP described, maybe a future Bojack but none on this show
@@adamgriffith-smith9106 Disagree. When Bojack got to the point that he'd left Hollywoo behind and started teaching, prior to the reporters looking into the Penny/Sarah Lynn story when he relapsed, he really was making strides towards being a better person.
I mean, he didn’t know if he would be around for much longer
this episode really encapsulates what it is to lose a good friend. Usually when someone doesn't like you you can write it off with a "they don't really no me" or a "he's an idiot anyway", but when it's a friend, none of those excuses work anymore
"Juice controls the media" is such a good line
The only time they acted like friends again
i dont get it
@@ilnurbikbov7538 it’s a pun based on the whole “jews control the media” conspiracy
RUclips too.
@@supahcomix conspiracy? you can freely see the shareholders, CEOs, new anchors, and spouses of news anchors- and every single public figure in every news company, on wikipedia. I promise you, you will find all of them are jewish. This is free and public information.
"Come on in, you're letting out all the cancer."
damn, them bantering about the vitamix showed just how much chemistry they had even after all those years
When I watched this episode for the first time, I didn't understand why it was called 'The Telescope' and it took me the longest time to figure it out. When I did though, the symbolism absolutely blew my mind. BoJack is the one holding the telescope, so he's holding it the right way. From his perspective, it makes it look like he and Herb are still 'close' friends, and we know this is true because BJ is legitimately too selfish and cowardly to see that this is not the case anymore.
But from Herb's perspective, the telescope is held in the wrong way. He's seeing the reality, that BJ is quite literally far away from him now that they've drifted apart after that betrayal. That's why this episode is called The Telescope, not only because of the literal telescope but because of how it represents two perspectives within the same relationship. God, whoever thought of this is a freaking genius
Herb’s laugh kills me when he says the line about Bojack leaving a knife in his back 20 years ago 😂
I really wish Bojack and Herb became friends again. But I understand why it had to be this way.
No, it didn’t have to be this way. Herb was just a baghole, and Bojack was a turd
I can’t help but laugh at the pause after herb says ‘I have cancer’
It's so wonderfully awkward and surprisingly long.
I guess u could say the nurse is a...
Care bear
What a sweet little interaction, so sweet you can skip the rest of the episode because I'm sure nothing depressing happens.
Bojack apologizes and all is well again, what are you talking about.
Exactly, and then he goes to rehab and has a good life after that
@@daydreamfuel5781only in a perfect world 😢
BoJack’s biggest problem is that for the life of himself he does not know how to quit while he’s ahead.
He keeps tryna soldier his way through and onto things to reach goals he’s not even entirely sure he wants...
I like how many bojack plots are dark yet upbeat and positive if you only see the first two of the three scenes
Herb has a home care aide, and it's a bear. She is a Care Bear, possibly the best pun in the show
Bojack’s “ayooo” is amazing
“Please come in your letting out all the cancer”.
Diane's magic
His greetings and dialogues before talking the electrodomestic really overshadow his answer to Bojack's apology.
"...It's because he ruined my life."
He just said it because he is still Mad and resentful with Bojack, because as we can see, he moved on and is rich, met famous people, made new and successful projects and kept old and new friendships, so in which way did Bojack destroy him?
Honestly, by making a list of what Herb has done and had, it makes me think that Bojack didn't and still doesn't have the same wits, charisma and enterpreneur mind as Herb, so he wouldn't have lived fine like Herb if he had backed him up, or at least he would have still depended on Herb.
Bojack destroyed his life - it doesn't mean he wasn't capable of building something new afterward. Still, one also regrets or resents the loss of those deep friendships that form your budding adult life, especially if you were comfortable in it before it was upheaved.
He didn’t destroyed his life per-se but is important to remember that one of the things Herb valued the most was family and at the time that was what Bojack was to him and probably even more (there were some implications that he might have harbored some romantic feelings toward him). He wanted him to look for the rest of the Hosrsin’ around crew, So when Bojack betrayed him and left him on the dust, it most likely was a tremendous blow to him. It doesn’t help Bojack never tried to contact him in 20 years
I feel when they started to rebond thanks to Diane Herb may of finally let go and moved on from the past and may of felt good to finally renember to old time but when Bojack came back for forgiveness I think it relit his anger and made him more angery than before as I felt he invited bojack to get the last bit of joy showing he was never going to forgive him
He made it clear that he wasn’t angry about getting fired, he was hurt that Bojack didn’t even bother to check up on him for the next 20 years after the show. Not a phone call, how you doing, nothing. Had Bojack tried to reach out to him after the he was fired their friendship most likely would’ve still survived.
@@roguishpaladin This whole scene almost makes me grateful for my Aspergers. And I guess I should be grateful that what few friendships I WAS able to build, I didn't destroy them like Bojack did
Sad to see Herb die, such a shame. Wasn’t even his cancer just a damn car accident
??? It was his peanut allergy
Nobody Important he crashed into a truck full of peanuts
Sickle yeah, but he survived the actual crash, the peanut allergy did him in
Nobody Important thats still part of the car crash
@@nobodyimportant9603 He died because of a car accident which led him to dying from a peanut allergy
Its sad to think what could have been if not for Bojack's selfishness and cowardice.
Herb losing his job did not mean that their friendship had to end.
Herb is unfortunatly a entitled, egotistical, petty baghole that abandoned Bojack himself
@@Master-Works How EXACTLY did Herb abandon Bojack ? Herb is well within his rights to not forgive Bojack.
@@godking A phone and a door works two ways. He could have visited and/or called himself
@@godking But he hurts himself in doing so
@@Master-Works Why should he Bojack abandoned him not the other way around. The onus was on Bojack to make the first move.
I have cancer....
Blue J. Jean Best part!
0:53 you can tell that laugh herb is dying on the inside 😅
I know the whole scene is brilliant,but can we stop at 1:20,and pay respect to the best proof of original language is always the best way to watch Bojack Horseman?
that was a great transition 1:00
I wish i haf Herbs personality
He seems a fun guy to be around
He was petty, entitled and egotistical
@@Master-Works he was all those things because
1.he got kicked out from the show HE CREATED for being gay
2. He is dying of cancer
3. His former best friend, the only person he thought he could trust, not only betrayed his trust and chose his job over him then cut all ties with Herb, but then he just appears at his house 30 years later saying sorry not because he actually feels bad but because he feels he NEEDS to. If anything Bojack is the egotistical one here
@@user-pi3hd2bt3f Do justify being such a big jerk? Anyway, if he wasn’t sorry, then he wouldn’t apologise
@@user-pi3hd2bt3f no he got kicked for his action
I love how for a mere moment, Bojack and Herb presently agree on something, even as small as the blender they both have. It's cool to acknowledge that even if your feelings have turned on someone, you can still strike a right chord.
Brilliant, brilliant writing!
Lmao “What string of bad decisions placed you into Bojacks orbit?”
0:15 It hit Bojack harder than many people believe considering the fact that Bojack first hated Herb for embarrassing him in his stand-up performance and the first thing he tells him personally was "Get cancer, jerkface" accompanied with a middle finger.
Juice control the media AHAHAAA
And then Bojack goes home and his last interaction with Herb is a positive one. What a happy show, I hope the rest of the seasons are fun like this one!
“If Herb’s your friend, he’ll forgive you.” I kind of agree with Angela on that one thing. I actually think he actually would’ve forgiven Bojack if he had just been there after he betrayed him
I think that’s the one thing a lot of people miss. It wasn’t just not standing up for Herb it’s the fact that Bojack got so wrapped up in his own guilt, that he just abandoned Herb entirely. Herb was at a low point and the one friend he thought he could count on abandoned him in every possible way.
@@Quinntus79 But Herb abandoned Bojack himself
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy.
It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you.
While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
If Herb had had even an inkling of how much pain and grief Bojack would bring onto his old friend, he never would have even brought Charlotte up.
...I just got the Juice joke. Holy shit.
I still don’t get it 😑
Watching Bojack and Herb zing about the Vitamix was so sad. Bojack was put into a rough spot with deciding to abandon Herb but dammit it was a shitty decision, so shitty that he lost his best friend over it.
2:08 ...should have just left it at that.
But Nope. Bojack's gotta Bojack. Lol
Not really, he still owned him the apologize and after not being forgiven Bojack should had left. Herb was still deep down mad at Bojack but at least Herb could be mad at him knowing that Bojack was sorry instead of fighting with him.
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy.
It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you.
While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
"Please come in; you're letting out all the cancer."
I wonder how differently things would've played out if, instead of trying to feel absolved of his guilt, BoJack just tried to keep in touch with Herb and visited him whenever he could. It would've meant a lot more and been far more apologetic than "Hey, I feel bad about what happened and I'm sorry."
He didn’t know how much time Herb had left. He could have been dead the next day as far as he knew
"You don't look so hot yourself, Herb"
"..I have cancer..."
(silence)
*..............*
Herb and Bojack still had good chemistry after all those years... until it happened... wonder what Bojacks life would look like if he keep Herb in his life... :(
God Herb is such a sweetheart. It's a shame that him and Bojack started drifting apart even before the whole firing situation. I feel as though if Bojack and Herb had just stuck by each other maybe Bojack could have been a better person.
Herb was entitled, egotistical, petty baghole
If the scene ended where the video did I'd be a lot happier about how this interaction went down
Pov: you finished bojack horseman and understands the story but some episode just confused you so youre watching a bunch of clips and reading comments
I just noticed Tina has witnessed the worst of bojack on her eyes, him fighting herb for the telescope, Beatrice and her breakdown as Bojack threw the doll, yeah she doesn't has the context but just saw that horrific scene...damn
A reminder. The first words bojack told when they first met in the club. " Go get cancer"
Throughout the series I couldn't help but be more more inclined on liking Herb and his influence on Bojack. Yes, everybody says that withouth Herb, Bojack would be nothing and that's true, all the reminicing from Bojack shows how Herb was naturally a good and caring person and how he devoted his life to help a friend.
and, No to defend Bojack but when Herb tells him that he never called in 20 years and Bojack says "I wanted but..(and get's interrupted)", you must have this experienced before otherwise you wouldn't understand. For one is not easy to call someone after they did something terrible, when the situation is horrible one feels like calling the next day, maybe 2 or 3 days later is too soon and don't have the encourage to face the person and ask for forgiveness, the days go by then realize that a year has passsed, two years, three years... I understand Bojack that he meant to call sooner or later, but as the days go by, once you think about it its been too long and makes it more difficult to try to make amends with the person, you live with that little dark concern lurking in your thoughts every now and then and you can't get rid of. Looking for forgiveness is a pacifier to calm that thought and have some mental peace, but not the cure, you'll always leave with that and have to learn to deal with it.
I never expected Herb not forgiving Bojack, and he's right, sometimes we don't deserve forgiveness so we feel good about ourselves for only soon after only cause us to do another bad thing again and ask for forgiveness again and again. Not forgiving should be a thing that people should learn, we all are taught and doctrinized based on relegion that forgiveness is what we all should do (it is right in most part) but keep it to yourself and set feet on the ground and be realistic, we don't deserve forgiveness often times.
I don’t know how but a lot of these actually flew over my head my first watch through these scenes were so nice
If only Bojack didn't ruined it, maybe he and Herb would have slowly restore their friendship.
If Bojack just accepted his lost instead of trying to force the forgiveness.
“I have cancer.”
I FINALLY GOT THE JUICE JOKE.
ME TOO, yesterday)
I just got it by reading your comment! Seeing it made it sink in way more than just hearing it. Hah...juice control the media.
Noticr how Diane gave a small smile when they both were joking around--
HAHAHAHAHA this scene is better than anything!
" I have cancer ."
“I think I need to head to bed and I hope I actually wake up later”
Damn 🤣
If only he dropped it and left. It makes a lot of sense that Herb wouldn't forgive Bojack.
I think he was even trying to give him tough love. Herb told Bojack what he needed to hear, and in a way was the catalyst for Bojack to start trying to be better.
@@watertommyz He became worse after this
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy.
It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you.
While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
could have just said im sorry and left it there even if herb wouldnt forgive him for that since as you can see herb enjoyed most of the time bojack spent there
Sometimes talking about things you both hate keeps you closer
To me, this was the turning point where BoJack Horseman started to become the masterpiece it became.
need me a man like Herb Kazzaz
Am pretty sure she gets the best content for her book right here.
Bojack should have walked out then and there , respected Herb’s space and just kept visiting . Herb would have forgiven him if he just gave it time .
When we choose not to forgive someone, eventually that person will find peace with the issue and heal, but it will sit with us as a grudge. Grudges only make us stew in bitterness and anger, and that’s unhealthy.
It doesn’t bother the other person because they generally move on. The only person it affects is you.
While it seems to benefit the other person, forgiveness ultimately is more advantageous for the person who does the forgiving. It heals us from the inside out, and that’s critical for our well-being.
YOU LEFT THE BEST PART OUT
What a delightful man
1:11 thier banter is so bittersweet... Just kinda gives you a window of what could have been.
I was screaming inside for jack to apologize before he went back to his room
When rewatching the show, to me this scene is always so much harder to watch than the next scene.
“Please, come in. You’re letting out all the cancer.”
Should've left right their and than came back to visit again with a little gift.
Honestly. Bojack should have left things like this. He should have just left and be thankful that he and herb parted on amicable terms
“Juice controls the media”.... it took me 2 years to get that!!
“Juice controls the media” 😂😂🤣
Hehe juice controls the media.