Are Dread Saurians Any Good in Patch 5.1? - Lizardmen Unit Focus
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Come one, come all, behold the great and terrible Dread Saurian as it makes Clanrats and Empire Swordsmen look like extras straight out of Jurassic Park! Big stompy dino is even stompier now!
#totalwar #warhammer #tww3 #offtobattle
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The Off to Battle unit focus format uses combat demonstrations from Skirmish vs. AI, background music and voice commentary, including:
- Intro
- Stat breakdown including hidden stats
- Common lord/ tech tree buffs applicable factionwide
- Tips, tricks, advice, maybe a secret or two!
- Bonus footage, playing out the battle once the voiceover is done so you can enjoy the sights and the music
Today's BGM: Jungle by Aakash Gandhi (RUclips Audio Library)
Total War Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires, Thrones of Decay DLC Patch 5.1! 
Игры
Dread Saurian has always been my favorite unit in the game and I was so happy when they finally added it. I remember back when the naysayers said it was impossible to have a Dread Saurian in the game because it was so big. I'm glad it's finally measuring up as the giant killing machine it was meant to be. Now if only they'd add some sync kill animations I'd be happy as a clam.
Well said.
@@vonfoxfire8004 also, it has to use its tail to attack as well!
@@lukaskoch2508 The tail attack from the carnosaur didn't really make much sense to me but I suppose with the Dread being a quadruped that does seem like something it might do.
@@vonfoxfire8004 True. Quadrupeds used their tail to attack, it was one of their deadliest weapons.
Wow, it's been so long since I played Lizardmen I forgot how expensive saurians are, AND have a unit cap! Yet there's the dwarves pumping out death blimps without a care in the world. The collision damage really is a huge bonus for these things. Seeing a literal shower of gore while it charges through units is what we should've expected from the start.
No kidding. Seeing is believing, so I just "had" to make a video about it, and the Khemrian Warsphinx will be very similar because it got love too. People praised the music I used for my last Tomb Kings video so I'll use it again and have fun with it.
This thing needs its unit cap removed if something like a thunderbarge can be recruited at will. You are already looking at turn 80+ just to recruit your first one and building up the cap is very slow.
It's a good argument.
I think If you're really min maxing it you can get them around turn 65 but still takes forever
i wanted to see that big guys kill count
Ah darn it I forgot that part!! I'll make a Post about it but it was just shy of 1000 vs. the skaven.
Are the different projectiles important, from what I remember it had both spear throwers and the blow dart mounts.
I'm not sure. Just that while it's welcome assistance, it's not going to be a player's focus, so we probably shouldn't worry about it too much...
I WISH these were better.
They have a very specicific and defined use case; that being running over enemy formations and getting at the chewy, nougat center of warmachines and ranged units, and the collision damage really helps here. Before, I'm not convinced they were better than just throwing two Stegadons at whatever it was, but, now they have that niche concretely. The AI rarely boxes or does a formation/map conditions where flanking isn't a better option, but, in those scenarios it is unparalleled. Outside of that niche, they underperform in basically every metric. For the size of that health pool, they actually feel much more vulnerable than "frail" monsters like the Carnosaur, since it's so big it can take hundreds of melee attacks at once, and it's basically impossible to miss with archers. They're abysmal in duels against monsters and especially characters, and even lose to some notably cheaper monsters outright, never mind the value exchange. They are also a somewhat erratically micro requirement unit; since they are absurdly vulnerable, yet struggle to accomplish specific tasks in a way that makes good micro rewarding beyond bowling over infantry to eat some cannons, so you need to keep an eye on them. I also find they are often incapable of automatically routing to safety, and in this metric, I actually think the Feral version can actually be a better pick, because it bails out of combat earlier, meaning it will more likely survive, meaning it needs less babysitting to not die.
The only other thing they have going for them is the Shredder of Lustria. On paper, it falls into many of the same pitfalls as the standard Saurians, but in practice, the Shredder can more or less single handedly carry whatever emergency army against whatever suddenly is near your territory that shouldn't be. It may still be overpriced for what it does, but the Shredder is a BIG goddamn hammer to smash down on some uppity nail-looking pests, and its own survival is barely a factor. I'd wager it's probably the single best RoR in the game for this, maybe Khorne's Bloody Fist is a little better, since it can hunt Lords which low tier garrisons can struggle to accomplish, but, top honors either way as a panic button.
THAT SAID.
The economic impact of the Dread Saurian is kinda mitigated by the time they become available anyways, and they DO perform over basically any other option that isn't a Life Slann or a Scar Vet on a Carnosaur the Lizardmen have if the only metrics you care about is army slot efficiency, with gold being an arbitrary metric set to "enough". A Dread Saurian WILL kill just about anything you set it to, and can function as a consistent, very few questions asked 1 for 1 trade at minimum with something, the handful of better duelist monsters aside, which they can still handle with pretty minimal extra support, even just some skinks to soak hits or a stray Life Bloom is probably enough. Parking one in front of a gate in a siege means that gate ain't budging (I mean, it will if you lose the walls, too, but...). They're fine additions to hero stacks or Life Slann dino mosh pits over that tenth stegadon/skink chief, and there is something to be said for just watching godzilla step on everything for the spectacle, efficiency be damned, and if you absolutely, positively need a unit dead within a few seconds for reasons I can't think of, but probably exist, if you use a Dread Saurian as a hammer to an anvil, it's gone.
Parting note. I will never not be upset that they can't climb over walls. It just feels right that they should be able to do so.
Or at least attack them.
I think Dragon Toads can attack walls. Haven't used Toad Dragons much so can't say for sure. Why can't Dread Saurians again?
I can't remember if even Giants had wallbreaker back when Dread Saurians were introduced in TWW2, but clearly they're still victims of the time of their introduction. I'll try to make good use of these units in my campaigns, but they do require a babysitting investment to get return on your financial investment for sure, since AI will kill one if it can.
Considering how OP ranged units and spells are, I don't see the dread saurians as being particularly useful in single player, unless youre going up against melee only armies, which lizardmen don't do at all. I dont understand why even the feral, naked version is unit capped. CA really needs to rework the lizardmen. Just my 2c.
You're not the only one saying this. I think that this latest change to the dread saurian really helps it, but I'll have to give it a try in proper campaign before saying much more about that. Someone asked me to do a Kroq-Gar video a while back so it's all in my longer term plans.
Wish stegadons and coatls, have melee colitions aswell, especially the coatl with its disruptive animations.
That would work in very... interesting ways. While I don't think they want everything to have it, I also feel like this is in some senses a test run for what more they could do with the unit behavior. (They'll need it if they're doing a Total War Warhammer 40k...)
Lizardmen have a good roster, they just need a campaign touch up to be really good
I wouldn't mind if CA got around to touching that up, but I appreciate this is all a lot of work and you have to prioritize. Still very interesting they made a few tweaks to some of the more important units, not just the Dread Saurian.
I believe they mentioned a touch up may be coming in the what to look forward to video.
I'm not sure if you already covered it in the master engineer lord video, but could you cover the updated steam tank for comparison to before thrones of decay? Particularly since both variants kind of do what the dreadsurin does, but with a lot more armor and gunpowder
Ah true, I didn't get into that heavily so I probably should add it to my list. That and Khemrian Warsphinx which should be coming soon
Forgot to ask- does collision damage affect braced units with anti- large charge defense?
Braced units count as "heavier" for mass purposes, but I don't have a rule of thumb. I tried to attack braced spearmen from the sides when testing Iron Daemon and Skullcracker but with their special running, they could mow infantry down like blades of grass until they slowed down again. So, you might get damage and kills but it'll just be less effective than ideal.
Yo where did you pull that hidden info tab up from did you just find it online or is there a mod that gives a better tool tip. It looks like a picture that you just hovered over the side of the video but there are a lot of units and i would like to get some of those states broken down.
In-battle I'll press spacebar to hide trees/ highlight units temporarily when I have HUD off for better cinematics, but I think you mean my stat cards? Total War Warhammer Stats, google it, third party site, big gift to the whole community.
Thank you, can have u done the full lizardmen roster?
I'm considering it. I'm almost done with Ogres and I think my BGM is kick-tail enough to do a bunch of videos to entertain, and I have way more prior experience with the faction than I did with Ogres. I'm going to do a video on the Khemrian Warkitty, I mean Warsphinx, because it got Collision Attacks too. Great change for the Tomb Kings.
Btw this slash size stuff are there large medium and small for monster infantry, cav and infantry or how does it work? I guess it's always preferred to be able to splash everything? Guess this stat isnt in the game at all right?
It's datamined so I get it from Total War Warhammer Stats. From what I've seen recently with Greasus Goldtooth, who has a splash target size of Medium, Sabretusk Packs have 32 entities on Ultra. Greasus killed 4 in one charge. This tells me that like Peasant Horsemen or Empire Knights, 32 entities means it's still considered a "medium" size unit, but I don't see the same result with Ogre Bulls, 24 entities on Ultra, certainly not with Trolls, 16 entities on Ultra. These would most likely be Large. Since splash 'stops' at single entity monsters OR characters of any kind, what does Very Large mean? I think it means Chariots with 4 entity units, and so on. Now, whether splash is actually helpful is case by case and there is no One Rule for it. Damaging more targets demoralizes them, but killing more entities demoralizes their surviving mates more and dead entities don't do damage to you.
A pretty good buff. I wish they added bonus vs large to it. But that's why I mod.
They don't want to deny the Feral Carnosaurs their place, it would seem.
The strongest SEM in the game. This unit is amazing, plus it has the poisomed ranged attacks. And he just got collision attacks plus 20 armor in patch 5.1 !!! Is Skinks ammo unlimited?
Well given that Thunderbarges and Land Ships' equivalents had unlimited ammo removed, I'll say 'I'm pretty sure it's not unlimited', I don't think it was ever unlimited for Ark of Sotek either... but, it's a high level of ammo to the point you won't feel deprived.
It would be nice to know just how much damage it's actually doing. I don't understand why CA is keeping these stats under wraps? Why is this such a mystery?
Will you make video on blupersmirk spewpit, norsca alligence to crow reward
Eventually. I can't promise when, Norsca is a faction I haven't gotten into seriously as a content creator and otherwise, but they're on my radar. Thanks for letting me know about him though!
What Key is it to make the UI go away ?
I'm using 'K' to do it, though I'll press the spacebar to highlight flags temporarily so I can control where the big dino goes a little better, and so on.
1:30 - 1:37 that 750 Weapon Strength isn't just on the high side, it's the highest in the game
For melee and for units, I guess. I mean the special lords will hit well above that, but you can cast all kinds of magic to boost Dread Saurians too, it's nice.
Yes! Yes it is!
Finally the big bad dino gets his time in the sun!
Long time coming. How can you have 12k mass and not Collision Attacks? Ha.
So what exactly does that mean enabled collision attacks?
basically anything it touches gets damaged, and that damage is a product of mass and speed. It can deal damage just by walking thought ranks, but if you get it up to full speed with the charge speed boost it will flatten whole units
@@JackdotC Thank you very much. But how did it work before? Did he not flat anything?
More like "nowhere near enough to reflect a big nasty 12,000 mass dino".
@@OffToBattle so he is still not killing things properly?!
Collision attacks are an alternative damage application method which basically means units with them roll attacks against entities they are in contact with up to a cap every second while attacking (WS is divided between these just like with splash attacks). It actually doesn't use mass or speed, but is an alternative system which replaces impact damage (this is generally a positive as collision attacks have much higher damage potential and targets hit beyond the collision attack cap take impact damage instead).
For the Dread Saurian it has 8 collision attacks as it's max per second so that means it deals ~94 damage per entity collided with (~70% AP ratio) assuming the attack roll hits. This doesn't usually increase the maximum damage a unit deals since its still based on the total WS value, but it increases the consistency of damage dealt significantly for attack animations which often fail to have adequate targets within the splash zone or that knock entities out of the splash zone before the attack completes. The exception to this rule is if you have attack animations which last longer than 1 second which can significantly boost damage output. For the Saurian the buff is more to consistency than max damage, but with 750 WS that's just fine.
As for the benefit to the Dread, prior to this patch he was losing around half his WS on a fair number of attacks which really depressed its performance into infantry. It's much more reliable now.
These things are hilarious.
Absolutely!
Putting a dread saurian against shaven is just hilariously unfair.
Also what about those healing crystal units? Or are they not in base game?
They are indeed in the base game. They're just considered pretty bad... 'in general'. Actually now that I think of it they added 'cannot be flanked' to all Bastilodons.
Is this the heaviest unit in the game?
No. No, it is not - the Thunderbarge has TWENTY THOUSAND mass rating.
Sure that this unit is called Dread Saurian and not Godzilla?
Related through the Dread Saurian's grandmother's second cousin.