The Forgotten Playstation 2 Port Of Test Drive Unlimited
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Test Drive Unlimited is a cult-classic racing game. With the upcoming release of Test Drive Unlimited Solar Crown, I thought it was a good time to revisit the first title, while most people talk about the PC and Xbox 360 releases, I found the Playstation 2 and PSP ports deserves to be considered as another option to experience this classic. ↓ MORE DETAILS BELOW ↓
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Music Played In This Video (In Order Of Appearance)
Driver 1 - San Francisco (Daytime)
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - C-Breeze
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Buy Theme
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Race Menu Theme
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Race Menu Theme 2
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Garage Theme
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Rental Theme
Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP) - Never Look Back
Need For Speed Porsche Unleashed (PSX) - Modern Era Menu
Ace Combat Zero - Hangar
#testdriveunlimited #testdriveunlimitedsolarcrown #playstation2 #racinggames
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Loved the PS2 and especially the PSP port of this game. So impressive honestly
Yeah it's kind of absurd how they ported it, on PS2 there's barely any performance issues too.
@@YellowbirdYT PSP port runs at 20FPS unfortunately even though the PSP can handle the game at 30 easy. I used to use cwcheat at every game launch to unlock 30fps. Makes the PSP port so much better
@@roshi61704PS2 can be emulated at 60FPS too, but there's not a good code for it yet.
I played the psp version it was awesome
there is a 60fps code for the PSP version if you want to emulate it
I don't think anyone besides me remembers that TDU1 had a PSP port. Its mostly the same, just without some brands like audi and ferrari, no interior camera, no pick a character option, no character costomization, you can fall under the map in class A cars if you are too fast and (common for PSP games) long loading screens.
PSP and PS2 are quite similar, actually. They were made by the same studio!
Nah the PS2 had the Audi TT
Psp had the tt too
PS2 and PSP are basically the same game, they just cut some more stuff from the PS2 version (interior views), less geometry details and a lock at 20 PFS.
Of course, on emulator you can patch it to run at 60.
But the game is basically the same.
Cut cars were also cut in the PS2 version for licensing deals between Microsoft and manufacturers.
The psp version is the worst one. The low frame rate makes it unplayable
I still remember me and my dad being impressed with the reflections in the interior camera view, i never felt at any moment i was playing a lesser version of a better game back then.
Exact same story for me
Wait, what interior reflections? I clearly recall that, with interior view, the hoods of the cars had missing cubemaps and no reflections.
I had the PSP port as a kid, I remember being able to unlock cars from rewards just by changing car in the showroom quickly then switching back, it allowed me to purchase all cars haha
funnily enough, this same bug can be used in tdu2 to buy DLC exclusive cars for in game currency
Easily one of my favourite PS2 games when I was a kid. I kept replaying it partially for the progression too, you really had to work to get those Koenigseggs at the end!
The time trial called "Traffic" + Shelby Concept is probably the best way of grinding money, then again it unlocks at Expert rank. I could swear you had to grind harder for cars, but I didn't find myself grinding too hard until end-game (mostly because I wanted all A-Class cars, lol)
You can get the CCR almost as soon as you unlock the Amateur rank. Rent DB9 Volante, win the Aston Martin Manufacturer series, sell DB4 Zagato for 1 million credits and buy the CCR for 750k while having enough money leftover to buy the stage 3 Upgrade package for it.
@@mrspandel5737 You need a full garage to sell cars though.
@@YellowbirdYT It's been a few months since I did this strat but Iirc you can also sell cars when you don't have enough credits to buy a certain car. I think I actually bought my Volante instead of renting it. So in either case my garage was full thanks to the starter Mustang and the guaranteed GT500 from reaching Amateur rank plus ofc the two Astons required.
Edit: I booted up my Savefile in question to check, you CAN sell cars even if you have free garage spaces when your credits are less than the price of the car you want to buy.
@@mrspandel5737 Ah, that's good to know. I did enjoy the Zagato too, though, hahah.
Thank you for making a proper and dedicated video about this game. I play the hell out of this game back in high school. Beating all the club presidents, unlocking the club exclusives cars, earning a certain amount TDU points miles unlock the Countach 25th Anniversary, the list goes on! You just earn yourself a new subscriber. Keep up the good work!
Shame the Countach didn't have more colors... Thank you! Hope you stick around.
The only real thing that is objectively better in the PS2/PSP version is the road collisions. For some reason in the main version of the game there isn't a SINGLE smooth uphill or downhill. Your car goes like BUMP-BUMP-BUMP. For some odd reason the car goes smoothly over uneven roads in this "lesser" version of the game.
another minor thing that's better in the ps2 version is the steering animations. the steering wheel moves and looks so fast and responsive, unlike the pc/x360 version which barely moves at all when you steer slightly.
I remember that, yeah.
Actually no, some roads at coasts and at the middle of track have broken geometry and makes you car pass trought the road on the PSP version.
@@Victor_2000sthat’s true but in most cases it’s just a visual artefact, unless the terrain protrudes massively through the tarmac nothing bad will happen if you drive over those patches of road
this game was my childhood. I had a lime green konisegg CCX and knew how to glitch under the map to the secret island from a gap in the rocks near the diamond head mansion. We also had a close PS2 TDU community where we would chat on the forums and there was a gentleman who went by the name llllllllllllBOTllllllllllll who was a legend at the PS2 version and was in the top 10 of all the leaderboards on every course. Ofcourse there was also AMGMaster and lildomplaya and a few other lads who used to frequent the TDU PS2 forums
I always wondered how strong the online scene on PS2 was, it's impressive that it had such features really.
The ps2 and psp version to me was purely made for racing centric rather then social featured centric in main xbox 360 and pc to deal with the compromised and limited feature on ps2 and psp, what is the awesome thing with these version of TDU is they can still fit the 1:1 oahu map on ancient ps2 hardware and far limited psp specs unlike *cough* Forza horizon 2 on 360 *cough*
PS2 version had multiplayer online aswell though!
@@noaharkadedelgado online multiplayer but still focusing on multiplayer race only while main version (PC, 360) has social feature MMO esque
That's the port of TDU I played as a child. Much better soundtrack than the bigger PC version
Soundtrack is pretty good, I didn't use much of it because I don't know its copyright status.
Agree
Same. Its painful to see some other channels only talk about that version while looked down on thos previous gen port.
@@YellowbirdYTnone of the original tracks are copyrighted AFAIK,
@@noaharkadedelgadoMostly of the songs are licensed songs.
I hate it when my PS2 TDU save got corrupted twice because the game freeze mid save 😔 i was the president of 10+ clubs at one point
The autosave can be disabled, it's pretty scary with hardware issues.
When i was younger i had spend many hours on this game on the ps2 and the psp port
I remember playing this game on the PS2, i was amazed when I was 7yo, there have been nothing like it, an open world racing game with a lot of cars, police and interior view?! On a PS2?! Also the soundtrack, sound effects and the blueish filter that fits the rich car guy in Hawaii lifestyle in the Early 2000s, it's also more nostalgic than the next gen version.
The Xbox 360/pc version had a dissimilar vibe to it, with different music and warm colors
The filter, yeah, I have mixed feelings about it. But I assume the slight blur helps the look of the game.
The one thing the ps2 port did better than the PC and Xbox 360 ports is how smooth the roads are. Had it not been for Platinum, I would've definitely considered playing the PS2 port mainly.
I absolutely remember the bumps.
PS2 version tip: setting 16:9 screen format on BIOS settings, will force TDU into proper 16:9 widescreen format mode as well
I been told about this, assumed it was automatic on emulation.
You need to boot the emulator without loading an ISO to acess the BIOS
this is the one i played as a kid. one of my most played games back then.
I have the Steelbook of this game! I remember being impressed with how detailed and open the world felt and just driving around lol
It is still impressive to this day, yeah.
I didn't yet have an XBox 360 in 2006 so the Playstation 2 port of Test Drive Unlimited was the first version I played and I recently installed it on my PC to play in PCSX2 and it plays even better with the XBox 360 controller which I use as my default controller on PC. The fly in the ointment for the PS2 version is the heavy pop-up in certain areas especially around that spaghetti junction just west of downtown Honolulu but I think I may be able to add more draw distance in PCSX2 by fiddling around with the display options.
In regards to your statement about the Test Drive series struggling to find its footing before Test Drive Unlimited, it's more or less true if you're talking about the near decade prior to Test Drive Unlimited starting with Test Drive 4 in 1997, not counting the amazing Test Drive: Le Mans on Dreamcast, but Test Drive II: The Duel was incredible by the standards of late 1980s MS-DOS racing games and it was the first racing game I'd ever played with optional expansion packs, the precursor to DLC, adding California and Europe scenery and exotic and muscle cars.
Maybe one day I'll have to talk about pre TDU days, I did play 5 and 6 before.
@@YellowbirdYThopefully you stream them first because you will be going on a crazy ride
beaten the ps2 and pc version.
the ps2 stills awesome because at the time the ps2 was already being phased out and managed to run tdu like a boss.
22:39 The cones were spared.
For now.
I remember finally beating the game and getting the Saleen S7! One of my favorite racing games of all time!
The S7 is one of the fastest cars in the game!
Impressive how they managed to stuff in a sprawling open world in a severely constrained platform, even more so considering how R* initially struggled getting Liberty City to fit within the confines of the PS2.
The evolution of 3D games was surely quick, yeah.
20:06 no Yellowbird, how can I not remember that villa right on top of a mountain, with a garage where I store my most coveted supercars like the XJ220 or the Miura, and with a winding road built exclusively for it, with nothing else on the way?
…no I can’t remember the name lmao
I forgor
I was addicted to it back then on PS2, I'm now playing it again on PS2 but via FreeMcBoot. I've also played all the other versions on their respective hardware in the years between. It has many flaws, like inaccurate gear ratios(some become accurate when fully upgraded, also true for the 360/PC version), no manual gearbox option, CLS55 is inexcusably slow, CLK DTM AMG sounds absolutely wrong, I could go on forever 😂
The thing is, the whole purpose and core of it as a game is so damn good it leaves you no choice but to love it and spend tons of hours on it. IMO it's one of the best racing games ever, equal to the likes of TXR3, TXRD2, GT4, MC3, NFSU2
Oh yeah the gear ratios, I don't mention it because most cars decimate the AI but yes, there's a few issues.
I had PS2 and PSP versions - severely underrated and still a fun experience. Xbox 360 version was still the one to have though.
That's fair, really.
I play tdu in ps2, my pc was too slow for other version. And yes, this is a good port for past gen console, even with car enteriors, with some dlc cars, but without ferrari brand)))
I didn't mention it because I found it too obvious, but the interiors are quite decent for PS2. Even if they probably showcase the lower power of the hardware the most, compared to PC.
@@YellowbirdYTdecent interiors for PS2? Give me an example of a PS2 game with better interiors with the same number of interior types
The fact that this game released on PS2/PSP was a miracle considering the map size, but the visuals were only decent at best on PS2. It’s probably due to the sheer size and detail required for the map and car models, but then the muddy textures kind of let everything down. Being made for the PSP first also probably didn’t help. I started with the PS2 version and remember seeing marketing for the “big boy” version and foolishly expected the same game but then came to realize the compromised visuals and the lack of Ferrari/Maserati, bikes, and character modifications/cloth stores. The consolation prize was there were some exclusive ps2 version cars like the Lamborghini Countach and Skyline GT-R, but then PC XB got them both as DLC. The bikes and character features are probably due to hardware restraints but I still don’t see why they couldn’t let the PS2 version have the Ferrari brand. Overall I liked the next gen version much better apart from the modeling of the roads, which are not a bumpy mess on the PS2 version.
Of course, PS2/PSP have made some trade-offs so these consoles could handle them.
Damn I'm actually going to have to give you a like. Everyone does their "please leave a" thing but I've never seen a video where someone tries to Rizz me for it LMAO
TDU and it's sequel are some of the best games I've played for their presentation alone. Sure it's not the best racing or physics on any version, but I love how the buying and customizing elements of this game build that connection to your car. The only thing that rivals that is NFS for letting me gradually build a shitbox into a track monster over the course of a career. The Crew 2 almost came close, with allowing for a more hands on "let me check out every angle of the car and test it before i drive it" experience, but it falls short in those cars being constrained to one of the 4 hubs and not getting that dealership experience.
Great video, glad to see someone talk about this specific port!
There's a first time for everything. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks for remembering this game. I played it first on the PS2, the graphics were amazing for a 1999 hardware. The alt rock radio station was great as well.
Yeah I remember that station, funny enough I never explored this game OST's much thanks to it.
I honestly much preferred the ps2/psp versions for their progression systems. Getting invited to clubs and working your way up to the top felt so cool. I also like that this version did not have that washed out/yellow filter/ blown highlights cinematic look like on 360
Clubs were such a good concept really.
2:07 Yellowbird we need to cook!
this was my TDU experience on my PSP back then. It took me years to find out that it was based on PS2 version but more cut features and lack of details etc.
I always thought it was the same, when I was little I only played the ps2 version
They are quite different really!
I remember finding my way into the golf course and the international airport as a kid in the PS2 version of TDU, but it's been so long that i couldn't say how i did it. Can't remember the method
I totally don't remember the golf course.
I really enjoyed the changes they did to the cops for the PS2 release. Makes driving around free roam fun!
There's a video that shows the rest of TDU-SC's map, they definitely left the best part of the map out of the beta
I do think it looks better than people make it out to be, we'll see!
@@YellowbirdYT i think it'll at least be fun to cruise in, it feels as immersive as tdu1 and 2 were.
Bah, I gotta do a story time.
Test Drive Unlimited was the first video game I can remember being truly hyped for. I had never seen a game with such a highly detailed cockpit view outside of the Project Gotham Racing 3 demo that I played at GameStop. I remember watching each and every trailer when they dropped, and I can still quote the GameTrailers preview of the game from that Summer. I'd spend HOURS on the TDU official site, just staring in awe at how good it looked. There was only one small problem: I didn't have an Xbox 360. So unfortunately all I could do was watch from afar. That was, until I heard in a preview that a PS2 version was being worked on! I was so hyped! I remember my father let me rent the PS2 version, and although it didn't look as good, I still had a blast. In fact having played both, I think the PS2 version has a bit more charm than the next-gen versions. It might not be the prettiest game on the system but the fact we still got pretty much the entire map with a good framerate, it really is impressive.
Absolutely, it was impressive and still is!
I spent ages on this game. It's honestly just as good of an experience as the other versions, and you get used to the graphics after a while
I played the PSP port recently and I loved it, almost more than the PC version?? I already played it on my phone like 1/2 years ago when my laptop had to be fixed, so I downloaded it recently again when I was on vacation and it was better than I remembered. The experience was there but almost expanded on with the clubs, which encourage you to buy more cars, something which I wanted to do more in this game than the original PC and Xbox versions of the game, mainly because of the super short time trial races in the game. One thing that was weird though is how unbalanced races and time trials are. Races are pretty easy on normal mode, but on hard mode, it feels like the AI just cheats? And even on hard mode with 2x more earnings than from normal mode, you still make less money from them than just playing the much shorter and easier time trial races. There's always a 1 minute time trial that gives you 30k compared to a minute race for 22.5k. The green series races were also super cool, was awesome to see some reward cars from them too. My biggest problem with the game though, it was the traffic by FAR. I feel like I hit the traffic more than I drove on the road cleanly, amplified even more by how the game ALWAYS makes you go the other direction on each road. The race AI isn't much better too. I'm currently trying to 100% the game, on 82% right now with 3M master points, though I completed like half the clubs in the game recently and that only went up by 2% somehow..
Hard mode can be pretty absurd, that's kind of what I meant when describing later races with multi-class grids.
I put 20k kms on my Pontiac GTO on that game, it was much better when I got a 360 but I played soo many hours of it on PS2.
Omg thank you! I remember playing this when I was 10 really confused why the gps was trying to kill me. I’m so glad you said the same thing
You are welcome!
The most impressive port was the PSP port…it bring psp to a whole new level…the biggest map on a psp game ever
Really great video, absolutely loved this game on PS2, but y'all need to stop calling every game "forgotten" lol
lmao a 128bits game with more details than modern games ... *savage*
I understand why they bring this franchise back
I'm really loving this game on the PS2 version, but the PSP version looks so impressive in my opinion, But I don't have my PSP ver
I grew up with the PS2 port and the one issue I always had was holding X for so long, the pressure sensitive buttons on ps2 controllers suck sometimes
I surely miss my original DS2.
20:00 There were some places in Hawaii that were memorable. Surrounded by the blue ocean, driving on an island with the tress everywhere and the whole vibe is perfect. When people talk about going to the island for a trip, they were always able to relax their mind and escape from real life problems.
Meanwhile in Hong Kong, you cant find any of those as theres nothing at all to admire around. Tall skyscrapers everywhere, pollution around the road, no signs of the nature for the most part. Making the whole location settings to be bland and uninteresting. I dont know why they even choose that location.
So no, your opinion about not finding any special places in Hawaii is not true.
Also you forgot to mention you can slipstream behind your rival to gain extra speed to overtake them. Which means you can still win races in an inferior car. Not to mention, you can pretty much finish the whole game without ever needing to buy cars (except the first one).
You can finish clubs, finish some races and reach milestones to earn new cars. Doing so will let you finish most of the important events especially the final one (Coastal Dream). Then again, theres no credits even if you finish everything so you can make your own rules on how you exactly finish the game. I myself was pretty much done when i beat those longer races
"Some places were memorable" > Mentions the whole map. So, everything blends in, not memorable.
An opinion is that, an opinion. Purely subjective. You can think whatever you want, and I can think whatever I want.
Its subjective, what do you enjoy the most, clubs races from PS2 or Hardcore mode from PC...
The beauty of duality
I got the psp port on my phone 😂 TDU And Burnout Legends is my go to games when im bored in some places with no access to my consoles
I'm too old fashioned to play on a mobile.
I still occasionally do TDU playthroughs on PS2. Its the one I grew up with and I never really gelled with the X360 version for whatever reason.
I think the physics model can best be described as 'paperweight cars with extreme gravity' but you can get used to it.
I'm a sucker for long races so TDU is right up my alley.
Yeah it's surely a curious driving model.
TDU had to be originally intended as a ps2 game and ported forward to the new consoles and pc at the time
That’s what it seems like but it was planned to be an Xbox 360 exclusive lol
We have a discord server for the PlayStation 2 community 💪❤️ I would put it in this comment but RUclips would flag it for spam lol. It’s titled Project PS2 Paradise and it’s also the name of our project for bringing the game servers on PS2 back online!
I strongly agree. This game deserved a bit more development time on the 360 and the PC, by having the PS2/PSP versions being released first.
It did release quite late on the PS2s lifespan, it was soon to be replaced by then.
I actually played this game on the ps2 and let me tell you
The texture loading when youre playing it through USB its laughably bad
and also "Comenting something to help my favorite yellowman with the algorithm"
I don't remember having any issues with a disk, loading the map did tank the FPS though.
The PC version is a port of the Xbox 360 version. The ps2 and psp versions aren't ports and contain vastly different gameplay and content differing from the PC and Xbox versions.
The lack of Hardcore Mode in the PS2 / PSP is a huge disapointment for me, who likes to slide in this game on PC.
Hardcore mode was peak racing in those days, if you compare it, to what its nowadays with Aseto Corsa or BeanMG, the cars react very similar, for an almost 2 decade old game I believe its an incredible acchievement, but something like that was impossible on PS2 hardware, it was already on it limits
And I just comment that the big difference between versions its the Clubs PS2\PSP and Hardcore mode PC/360
My favorite still 360 version omg the hours we spent nah those were THE days
@@budaroddyinteresting, I thought that would be just a matter of calibration of gravity, and / or car performances.
PS2 port was awesome. Id argue the single player was better than the PC/360 version
Yep, kind of my point for making this video really.
Always will be better
I discovered TDU with the 2nd game. I was starting to follow game releases and I heard about TDU2 as this racing game with a lot of social elements to it, made by French devs (which is where I'm from). I was curious and got the game on PS3 and never liked it to the same extent as a Need For Speed game of the time, but I did love how you could have houses, go to dealerships and tuner shops. At the time, I kinda dropped the game after reaching Hawai, because the gameplay was getting too samey. I did enjoy exploring the island (even though I mostly spent time in Ibiza in the game) but the size of them is just too much. I hope the new game can offer something better than the previous one, and as a bonus, it's also developped by French devs (not the same ones though but apparently one of the directors on the new game was also the director of TDU2).
Solar Crown is the Duke Nukem Forever of the franchise. I'll maybe check it out once it's heavily, heavily discounted.
Its a good game
Dont waste your time. The game is online only and wont work well even if you have good pc spec
if youtube tries to screw you up, dont understimate the power of PS2
Hey Yellowbird
This up comment its my other channel, Im pretty sure I never saw any of your videos with that account but somehow RUclips suggested me this one, so the algorythm its not that bad I believe
I hope you get what I tried to tell with that comment, PS2 has a lot of following, and an incredible amount of nostalgia for it, the games, and that age in general
Kudos my man! Been here since the Porsche Unleash video but I dont have much free time
Thanks! I appreciate it, good to see you.
what's funny about the psp version of this game, is that it's easier to emulate than to run the pc version :)
PS2 is pretty simple too!
@@YellowbirdYT oh sure, but the psp emulator tends to be much easier to run, even works on older phones/computers. it is a little sad the psp version doesn't have the cockpit view, it looks dope
Was ported my Melbourne house
I know it's a weird nitpick but I always found the PS2 port to feel more melancholy because of the map theme in that version. Felt so sad listening to it lol.
Not better, just extremely impressive.
They brought a good chunk of the original game onto a new engine adapted for the previous gen of consoles, including the PSP.
It works so well that it makes you overlook the missing stuff, like motorbikes and manual gearboxes.
Oh and the GPS! That's actually something you notice if yoy played both versions: On the main game it recognizes the wrong direction, on PS2 it doesn't care at all.
Played the hell out of it as a kid not owning a 360 or PC good enough on a PS2, and went back to the PSP port on a phone emulator last year.
PS: The footage looks kinda horizontally stretched. I remember this game had a finicky widescreen implementation. It was basically forced (you had black bars on 4:3 TVs), and it conflicted with the PS2 own widescreen settings. Maybe you missed some of those settings in the emulator.
16:9 is supposed to enable automatically, I honestly couldn't notice the difference in this game. If this isn't 16:9 then, I got no clue, haha.
@@YellowbirdYT yeah, you're supposed to change to "widescreen" in the PS2 own menu. It's not like other games that had the option to go either 4:3 or 16:9.
This game was always 16:9, you got black bars on a normal TV. But getting the setting wrong would stretch the image either vertically or horizontally.
@@YellowbirdYTyou have to enable widescreen in the PS2 bios system settings
I loved playing this game back in the day, and it's given me a love for the Jaguar XJ220 to this day. I painted it metallic blue and called it "Saphira". I've been playing Gran Turismo 2 lately and recreated that car again.
Honestly, I tried TDU2 a few years ago (cough cough check MyAbandonware) and I did not like the game. The driving physics aren't very good, and I absolutely HATED every single character that appeared, and they appear a lot.
And then, TDU Solar Crown. I have absolutely zero hope that it'll be good. Other than the obvious shitty aspect of live service-itis, and potential for shitty microtransactions, I couldn't even get into the beta, and everything that I saw of it looked aggressively mid, half baked or straight up bad. After KT Racing absolutely fumbled the bag and ruined their final WRC game right before the license went back to Codemasters and EA, I don't trust them to work well in the new TDU.
The XJ220 had so many good color options, can't choose one. Need multiple.
What do you mean TDU1 is forgotten on the PS2??? That's the version I played before!
i didnt forget it i still have my original copy. I just didnt like how the game played and progressed
This game supports widescreen btw
I know, it's supposed to enable automatically as there's no option available.
@@YellowbirdYT enable it in BIOS. Run bios
I do remember many places. From RDU tho, the Vulcan house, the huge ass. Mountain at the north, the vRiouse touge like roads, the big park on the city
I actually have it. Great game.
I just really dont like and watch streams. I enjoy these here much more.
i agree
Well thank you.
0:22 , yup, fk u mate, now am more depressed that nobody actually messaged me for days...
can you turn your ford into a saleen here?
The Mustang? Not really.
Definitely not better than the PC/360 version, unlike what the clickbait thumbnail would suggest. It definitely feels like the game was made for PS2 first though, most things just *click* a little better in that version.
Solar Crown looks like trash though.
Are you German?
Nope. Argentinian.
Mybe adress subscribers in the end, for some people this is your first video and they dont even know you. They are interested in the subject, not streaming...