The 24 Hour Scapegoat Bombshell Challenge
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
- Some critics say the scapegoat is part of a single sin offering, according to Leviticus 16:5. Join Pastor Myers as he issues a brief challenge to all such critics. The challenge is simple. They have 24 hours from watching the challenge to present an answer.
You nailed it on the head! Both of the goats had to have been available to become a sin offering, but the purpose of the lot was to determine which one would be the sin offering both had to be without blemish. Both had to be able to be a sin offering, but then one was chosen. This is so clear any other argument against this is just foolishness.
Im going to leave a little tune with @Mary Martinez and all the opposers of the Word that Pastor Myers has so beautifully shared. The tune goes like this..
🎶READ your BIBLE PRAY every day and you’ll GROW. GROW. GROW.
🎼🎶NEGLECT your BIBLE forget to pray and you’ll SHRINK. SHRINK. SHRINK.
We have to study, study, like Pastor Myers has done so that we we will grow and not shrink.😊
EXCELLENT BIBLE STUDY ❤🙏👍
It is Different form the Goat of Sin offering. The sins was placed on Azazel just like in Lev 16: 22 so are the same sins placed on Satan in Rev 20 that was cast into the bottomless pit.
This is as clear explanation of this topic I ever heard. I have been tried to understand this topic for awhile now n I’m clad that I just found this videos of RUclips, thank you n God Bless.
It’s just a sign of people not really reading all of the Word of God. The Lamb’s Blood was used to sprinkle on the mercy seat to forgive the sins of the camp of Israel and then the sins were transferred to the scapegoat which was to be led to the wilderness to die alone. Just as Jesus was crucified and His blood sprinkled on the mercy seat to forgive the sins of everyone; then in the end of time all of the sins will be placed on satan which is why he will burn the longest in hellfire before being consumed and he will be by himself by burning the longest. God’s Word is so clear if we just spend time in it as we spend time on screens and non productive things. God bless you Ivor! You all are such a blessing!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvwhy was the sanctuary cleansed. Why was there a need for reconciling the holy place, the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar? If there was no sin or if those things were not stained then why was it necessary to use blood to cleanse them?
Lev 16:20 KJV And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
wow. the explanation of the law of the sin offering just completely cemented this teaching for me. this in conjunction with your sermon is the clearest explanation of the scapegoat i’ve ever heard. may God bless you richly.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Jesus became sin for us. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Lev 4:6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.
Lev 4:7 And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Orr ok. I must admit, this was a great teach from Pastor Myers on the sin offering. With an open mind i listened and took notes. From the notes i noticed many fallacies and poisonous implications. So though the teaching on the sin offering was good, for me, it gave me greater proof that satan is not gonna be bearing the sin of the righteous. That is a teaching that denies the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It denies Him of all the glory for salvation and redemption. And it puts the suffering and sacrifice of Christ after the sins are placed on satan. Compare Leviticus 16:20-22 & 16:27,28.
@@kylontobiasSatan does not bare them, he suffers because of them. He is cut off because of them. He is judged unworthy by God. Jesus bares the sin offering. The two goats represent two different things. What surprises me is that people have known that Azazel represents Satan for thousands of years, why was the meaning changed in the last 200 years?
Satan loves to deceive, he’d love for people to think he is their saviour. That’s what you do if you think Azazel represent Jesus.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvthe sin is in the body which is removed from the camp.
@@TjarkoTarnen i never said that azazel represented satan
Pastor, the reason those who believe Jesus is the scapegoat cling to this is because of Jesus isn't the scapegoat, that would mean that there is more to be done, and there must be a future atoning work that Christ has to fulfill. If He isn't the scapegoat, then it proves that there is more work that Christ has been doing in the Heavenly Sanctuary.
Exactly.
Paul says that in Hebrews chapters 8-10 and they still reject it!
Jesus already done that here on earth on the cross as our sin offering was the outer court of the heavenly sanctuary n now he’s our high priest in most holy as our advocate with his own blood on our behalf. N the scapegoat which was not killed will chained up in the bottomless pit awaiting for his final punishment with his follower after the 1000 years of heavenly rest for Christ followers.
When you take the trash out to to the garbage can. It's still there. The job has been done but when that day comes! Garbage day! Lol yes, the garbage truck takes that sin I mean trash to a desolate place never to be remembered again
@@Zigzig7777 Jesus took the trash out to a corner and keeps piling them up until trash day?
This was impressive and eye opening. But it just goes to show the important of reading the entire passage. If you are using Lev 16:5 as your silver bullet, once you keep reading it is clear that both goats are not the sin offering, and only one is chosen. Then the argument that both goats are needed to symbolize both he forgiveness and removal of sin is debunked a few verses later where it shows the Lord's goat taking care of all those aspects.
I was thinking the same thing.
...Keep reading.
Very clear. Thank you and God bless you and your family, Pastor Myers.
Happy Sabbath
@@charnelallan7159 I believe that was explained in the presentation. Will you rise to the challenge? 24 hours is a long time.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv it’s not good to assume the worst of someone just because you don’t like what they have to say.
I was on a channel commenting on a video that I agreed with and I had a very similar problems like you are having right now. This lets me know that it must be some kind of RUclips bug. I am not sure what was happening, but my comment disappeared after having worked on it for at least an hour. Of course it was in agreement with the creator of the video so I am sure he did not delete it. When you assume negatively, it shows how biased you are. If you are biased, it is much more difficult to determine what is true.
just stick to the subject at hand. This last comment you posted made it through didn’t it? You don’t have too much longer before time runs out. Your 24 hours is almost up.
A great presentation and very encouraging. Thank you, Pr Ivor 🙏🙏
An unanswerable challenge! Locked and loaded! BOOM!!!
Amen 🙏 Praise God for your ministry and TRUTH telling! I can’t wait to see the results of this challenge!!!
Saints, for those who are of the opposition PLEASE provide Bible texts that DIRECTLY support your position, that shows how it is connected biblically. So far, the texts being offered are very weak at its best. In Pastor Myers presentation, he provided a boatload of texts that were connected to the topic that made it extremely clear. “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept line upon line, line upon line, here a little and there a little” (Isaiah 28:10).
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv This is exactly what I was referring to in my post. You have not addressed the question/challenge. Perhaps your memory has escaped you, so here it is again: What is the purpose of the scapegoat? Please provide bible texts that DIRECTLY support your response. Pastor Myers presented a MULTITUDE of bible texts to back up what he is saying. He connected the dots. You come to the table with one text that speaks nothing of the scapegoat.Then you answer a question with a question. You must present a biblically based strong arguement for your position if you want to convince someone.
Crystal clear pastor.
Bravo in Jesus name.
Adventist doctrine is based on God's truth .
Therefore it is hard to try and defeat it🤞🙏
Hallelujah!! God bless you mightily
One sacrifice symbolized the death of Christ - our sin offering that removed our sin offering
May the truth of God prevail ...His truth is marching on
2 PETER 3:16 - and also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTAND, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST(distort the meaning or interpretation of something to .....)as they do also the other SCRIPTURES UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.
Preach
Powerful. The Bible explains itself
According to those presenters at the beginning of the video, God instructed the Israelites to make a sin offering to a wilderness demon 😳. I find it funny that they think Adventist’s interpretation is blasphemy…really.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Name calling is uncalled for. We are just discussing soteriological ideas. I mean Calvinist actually believe Christ created sin and I don’t call them names. Rather we have good discussions.
Also, the sins are blotted out but there is still a false witness to deal with.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv You called me naive. That approach does not encourage conversation. You also claim I don’t know Christ. Yet you don’t know me. How do we know someone is in relationship with Christ? John 13:35.
Regarding the false witness exegete Deut. 19:15-21 and apply to Zech. 3:1-5. That will give you an idea about the false witness and the goat for Azazel.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Do you think calling someone naive is a polite and loving way to address someone discussing a topic with you?
Also, may I suggest you not call people names like naive just because you disagree with them. We all have different backgrounds, understandings, and experiences. My understanding is different than yours. I believe I’m correct, but I don’t believe I’m beyond correction or a change in understanding. I have changed my views in the past. My profession and educational experiences have taught me the importance of an open and honest mind.
You "killed" it! God bless you.❤
Havent listened yet. I already know the message but i just listened to a 2 hour rant about how ellen white is a flase prophet and that satan isnt the scapegoat. So i need a pick me up. May God bless you pastor ivor meyers.
Nothing like a good pick me up!!!
@@powerofthelambAmen! It did just that.
Happy Sabbath ❤
The scape goat is to bear the sins cleansed from the sanctuary, which defiled it from the year before the day of atonement. During the day of atonement, the congregation was to afflict their souls, fasting and doing no work. Those who did not afflict their souls were cut off. After the high priest cleansed the sanctuary, he transfered the sins from the sanctuary to the scape goat/azazel. Which was then to bear the sin of the people and sent into the wilderness.
Today, we are living in the antitypical day of atonement, which we are to be searching our hearts daily and asking for forgiveness of our sins.
During this time, our characters are being built, and our sins are being forgiven by faith.
Jesus is our high priest working on our behalf in the heavenly sanctuary.
Satan, who is azazel, will be the one to bear the sins cleansed from the heavenly santuary. Satan does not shed his blood. It was only Jesus. So Satan will forever bear those sins and be consumed in the lake of fire.
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It's actually the record of sin that was symbolically placed into the sanctuary from the sprinkling of blood upon the vail of the sanctuary and then also placed on the horns on the altar before the lord in the sanctuary.
We need to understand the sin offering in order to know why the sanctuary was defiled and why it needed to be be cleansed.
Read Leviticus 4.
During the day of atonement the sanctuary was to be cleansed and those records of sin cleansed from the sanctuary was then placed on the scape goat/azazel.
Levitcus chapter 4 explains the sin offering and what the priest does with the blood.
Leviticus 4:6-7
6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.
7 And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
If you know the sanctuary, you will understand which parts of the sanctuary the blood was sprinkled on which defiled the sanctuary which is why it needed to be cleansed.
And that cleansing was during the day of atonement.
Please read levitucus 16 it will explain what the priest then did and even explain what the priest did with the scape goat / azazel.
Jesus was our PERFECT SACRIFICE he SHED his BLOOD for us ONCE.
In the DAILY sacrifice, if you understand it was done DAILY, the blood shed by those innocent animals without blemish were sprinkled ON THE VAIL AND HORNS OF THE ALTAR IN THE SANCTUARY. Leviticus 4.
Read Hebrews chapter 9 to get a better understanding.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. I don't need to explain anything anymore. If you read the scriptures and really pray to God for discernment, there would be no argument about having to really prove things.
People like you like to stir the pot, if your right then God will hold me accountable for the light your trying to SHED upon me. Thank you.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Can you please explain to me which DEATH Jesus died for us the first or second DEATH. And why?
He BORE all our sins on calvary on the tree and he that hangs on the tree is a curse but at the same time shed his blood for us.
Remember he over came the grave.
Thank you Pastor Myers 🙏🏻 truth is ever simple. Glory to God. God bless and keep your ministry.
Amen my beloved brethren ❤Happy Sabbath 🙏🏼. Yes both were accomplished with the same animal.
Scape goat is a type of Satan in Rev 20:1-2 put in the desolate earth after the second coming of Christ.
My beloved sister in Christ, Satan is the very first to sin against God and beguiled Eve to sin and used her as a vessel to get Adam to sin and a third of the heavenly angels , even here in man’s realm when a outlaw gets caught even the mastermind behind the braking of the laws get his due punishment and has to pay for his involvement, Satan is the mastermind behind sin from the beginning and will pay for his involvement bringing sin to this world and even when he did so in heaven. Satan is the type of the scapegoat.
My understanding point (1) before verse (20)it says both the sanctuary and the nation were cleanse, now when you clean you then have to get rid of the waste permanently, verse (20-22) since all was now sparkling clean GOD now got rid permanently of the waste (sin)via the scapegoat satan a fittings punishment for the one who started evil
REVELATION 12:17 - The dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make WAR with the REMNANT of her SEED, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.
Does the scapegoat being sent to the wilderness is a representation of satan being left on the desolate earth for a millennia?
The scapegoat ( Azazel) represents the originator of sin ( Lucifer ).
Thank you for this
I've been trying to get people to understand that the sinner did not have to bring 2 animals for the sacrifice in order for sin to be removed. 2 animals were not needed until the day of atonement at the end of the year when all was finished. People think all of it was finished at the cross but that's not true. After the animal was sacrificed by the sinner the prices continued throughout the year until the day of atonement. Then the sanctuary was cleansed. Meaning the end of all had come. All is finished. This world has come to an end. It's sad that People still won't listen because if they do they will have to accept the Sabbath. Peace and keep fighting the good fight of faith🙏🏾
Ivor, with much love and respect to you, thank you for your time put into this study and for causing many to think deeper; now please take no offense with what I'm about to share with you.
The work of atonement is to REMOVE sins. It is NOT to punish Satan for what he has done. That is a false doctrine and comes straight from the heart of a human being and their conceived way of dealing with satan and sin. Human beings are not the ones deciding how Satan should be punished, it is not for us to make that decision. God has already made that decision and will perform it in the lake of fire prepared for Satan and all the false prophets. Revelation 20 verse 10 what more evidence do you need God already has a plan for Satan. Satan does not carry no burden of sin. He is not my Christ and this is an antichrist belief. There is a need for a better biblical exegesis on this topic. Understand the depth of atonement, study what atonement represents. You will find that Satan is nowhere to be found in this most powerful sacred act.
🔥🔥🔥
The goat for Azazel takes any impurities out of God’s presence. More specifically, the false witness and false accusations against the believers. Zach. 3:1-5, Deut. 19:15-21.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Dr. Michael Heiser has a good video regarding this subject. It certainly appears that Azazel is opposed to the Lord. Lev. 16:8.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Then why enter a discussion if you have closed your mind?
Also, please note that in Revelation 5 Christ’s work finished the atoning sacrifice allowing Him to open the scroll of salvation. There is still work to be done. Experientially this is absolutely true. The church is not completely atoned to God. We are not glorified and freed from the results of sin as typified by the Day of Atonement. I’m sorry, you are mistaken in your understanding. You have more to learn, as we all do. That does not mean you are unsaved, it just means you still need Christ’s atoning sacrifice, as we all do.
Blessings and go with Christ.
Another Ellen White interpretation that she didn’t even seem to be clear on…:
1. In the book “Christ in His Sanctuary”, p.147.3 EGW says that the scapegoat typified Satan
2. In Letters and Manuscripts - Volume 12 (1897), Ms 112, 1897, par. 47
EGW says
"Some apply the solemn type, the scapegoat, to Satan. This is not correct....CHRIST WAS THE SCAPEGOAT, which the type represents.
Few questions:
1. The fact that Lev 16:5 says both goats for A sin offering doesn’t mean both are for a sin offering??
2. Witches and demon worshipers is your confirmation that Azazel is Satan, when the Hebrew just says…entire removal, scapegoat?
3. Why did you leave out verse 10
“But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.
Leviticus 16:10
Satan partakes in your atonement??
You brushed past verse 21 and 22 pretty quick there. To think that the scapegoat is Satan and you will “confess” your sins over Satan is…..smh
Why can’t both goats represent Jesus for a single sin offering?
As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
Psalms 103:12
Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:4, 6
“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
John 1:29
Except that there is no evidence she wrote that. And you probably know this but are willing to use the argument anyway in hopes of troubling some not well studied people.
This is a type written paragraph that was not approved by Ellen White for publication. In the actual document published, she clearly had the day of atonement concept in mind when she wrote the manuscript that would be published. How do we know this. She literally says in the same document "Satan was personified in Barabbas" and then four paragraphs later, "Barabbas is to be spared, and Christ sacrificed." 12LtMs, Ms 112, 1897, par. 43. Especially since the unapproved paragraph is talking about the scapegoat, it is clear here that she would have had this very thing in mind when writing the manuscript.
She is clearly then equating Satan as the scapegoat, and she is hinting at this event regarding Barabbas and Christ as typifying the actual fulfillment of the day of atonement at the end of time. She closes with "And thus it will be in these last days. Christ who came to magnify the law and make it honorable will be rejected, antichrist will be accepted." Again, the comparison is Christ rejected meaning "crucified afresh" and antichrist "accepted" meaning "spared - Barabbas". Whatever speculation we may have about the paragraph that never made it to be published, we know that the published version suggests the exact opposite as the scapegoat is "spared" and the Lord's goat is "sacrificed."
Stop stooping to low techniques. Be ethical. Ellen White did not believe this. You know she didn't. Every thing she has ever written for publication teaches the same thing. Moreover, you claim we should go the bible and the bible only. So do that.
Luke 17 explains how Jesus healed TEN LEPERS. Before the mercy of Christ, the lepers had no cure, had to live outside of the community, and was unclean.
After being healed, the lepers still had to go to the priest for a two-part ceremonial cleansing that involved two birds. As explained in Leviticus 14, the living bird was dipped in the blood of a bird that had been killed.
The living bird was then permitted to fly away carrying away sin.
We are spiritual lepers with the disease of sin. We are slaves to sin, and our wages of sin is death.
The symbolism of a serpent on a staff foretold of Jesus becoming sin and His crucifixion. Just like the two goats foretold of atonement that only Jesus would fulfill becoming our substitute and becoming sin.
As the first goat, He paid the debt freeing us from being slaves and exchanging our status from slaves to the status of kings and priests. He freed us from spiritual Egypt or spiritual Babylon; but leprous slaves became leprous kings and priests. Our bodies were free, but our minds were still enslaved.
So now He had to remove sin from our hearts (minds), The second goat (scapegoat) symbolized that.
Psalms 103:12 states: “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.”
Christ did not just cover our sins; He will blot them out and not remember them anymore.
The two birds and the two goats symbolized what only Jesus Christ fulfilled.
Currently, in a sense, Jesus is busy turning ten lepers (harlots) into ten virgins. Sin is being removed from our records. Our records will show NO SIN!
The scapegoat (Jesus) has removed our sins to oblivion.
Heres the brief: Matthew 8 28-29.....Isaiah 13 verse 9 : then the 1/3 rd must bare their sin....evil times be silent....proverbs 22.
May I also point out that everywhere in scripture Jesus is represented as a LAMB of sacrifice, and his redeemed as sheep. Satan and his followers are represented by goats, this is even seen today in Satanism within the Pentagram, the Baphomet, and their teachings.
Leviticus 16 is the only place Jesus is symbolized by a goat, now ask yourself why? Because Jesus became sin for us, hence why goats were brought and not a goat and a Lamb. Not to mention the sin offering was for sin, but the scapegoat was of sin.
In the O.T. Lucifer is never mentioned or called Satan, the devil, or by his symbolic names in the N.T. as the serpent, and the dragon. All these designated names for Lucifer for given in the N.T. So when Judaism itself says that the second goat represented Azazel ( sin or goat demon ) it's talking about Satan. Lastly, the word scapegoat wasn't used in the bible until the 16th century when William Tyndale coined the English word " Scapegoat " as a substitute. However, had Tyndale studied Judaism and the sanctuary service more closely he would have seen the truth and we wouldn't have this battle over it today. God Bless, and HAPPY SABBATH EVERYONE!!
Actually, where we first got the names Satan and Lucifer and even Devils are all from the Old Testament
@@howarddoss7740 Yes, but their first appearences were not until the N.T.
Could someone argue that the fact that Hebrews compares the body of the dead animals being taken outside the gate to the bodies of the sin offerings being taken outside the camp does represent the Fulfillment of that aspect, but that because Jesus in being taken outside The City Gate was actually still alive that it also represents the live goat?
The type isn’t perfect but Paul uses it to typify the death of Jesus.
Ivor, I hope you are reading this...since when do we confess our sins to Satan? if you believe the scapegoat represents Satan, then you must also believe that he also forgives sin... because the sins that were confessed were confessed upon the scape goat, "And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and CONFESS over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness". " The goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area" . Lev 16: 21,22
Ivor, the Bible says that the scape goat bares our iniquities. That is the role of CHRIST... NOT Satan. Sins MUST be placed upon purity an unblemished vessel in order for it to be annihilated. Ivor, sin cannot cast out sin.
Your theory makes Satan pure and Unblemished, when did the scapegoat exchange its features to be like Satan? he started off pure and the very fact that they casted lots between two goats is because BOTH were pure and unblemished and had two functions to perform one made atonement the other made. The sin offering both needed purity for this action....
Your beliefs verge on blasphemy in fact, I'm sorry to say, it is blasphemy to exchange the work of Christ for Satan. I know you have not done this purposely, but you need to think this through deeply and understand what atonement is. Satan is EVIL and evil does not have the last say where sin is concerned. Can Satan rid this world of sin. NO! The work of atonement is to RID the world of sin. It is NOT to punish Satan for what he has done. Please stop! meditate and think this through.
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What seems to be the issue with those of the opposition is the word "bear", The entire plan of salvation as demonstrated in the sanctuary services, is based on what Jesus has done for sinners (us). He took responsibility for our salvation by taking the penalty for our sins by his death on the cross. Just as a parent assumes responsibility for the actions of their child, so Jesus does for us. Then as our high priest, he has taken the responsibility for applying His blood, His righteousness, to the sins of those who accept the gift of his blood. On the day of Atonement, when He puts an end to sin and Jesus has atoned for all of our sins, sin is then placed on the rightful owner, the one who is responsible for sin from the beginning, Satan. Satan now has to assume responsibility for all of the sin of this world. The scapegoat had to be without spot or blemish because in the beginning Satan was perfect. It was an illustration to show that Satan was NOT created evil. He let his beauty and position go to his head and he fell from grace. "Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekial 28:12-18). At that time, on the antitypical day of atonement, the scapegoat will take responsibility for (bare) the sins of this world.
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I have been wondering about the following:
If the live goat going into the wilderness represented the final removal of sin from the entire camp of Israel (Leviticus 16:20-22), what was the need for (Leviticus 16:27,28) the skins, flesh, and dung of TWO(2) sin offerings to be burnt outside the gate? Why did Leviticus 16:27,28 follow 16:20-22? Didn’t that mean that the sin that was to be completely removed finally by the goat for Azazel, was ONLY FULLY removed by the Sin Offering being burnt outside the camp AFTER the scapegoat already went into the wilderness? What would this mean eschatologically?
Leviticus 16:27,28 communicates that the TWO (2) sin offerings were only COMPLETELY fulfilled AFTER the goat for Azazel was sent into the wilderness.
In your video, you said that the type of the sin offering was fulfilled in Christ:
“11. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.” (Hebrews 13:11-12, KJV)
For most EGW aware SDAs, who believe that the Antitypical Day of Atonement started in October 22nd 1844, that would mean that the ANTITYPICAL SIN OFFERING SUFFERS WITHOUT THE GATE AFTER THE SIN IS PLACED ON THE SCAPEGOAT (When Leviticus 16:27,28 follows 16:20-22). Wouldn't that be a unknowing denial of Jesus’ 1st century sacrifice? After all, the figurative Leviticus 16 Sin Offering was offered on the 10th Day of the 7th Month, called the Day of Atonement. A Day of Atonement which we have claimed to have started in 1844.
“27. And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung. 28. And he that burneth them shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp.” (Leviticus 16:27-28, KJV)
What could have been the purpose of Azazel in light of the above?
1.“As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.” (Psalms 103:12, KJV) (Outside the Camp is not as far as the East is from the west, the wilderness might be. Also, the goat FOR Azazel is not Azazel himself. He goes to Azazel baring sin)
2.The goat FOR Azazel could have also symbolized how imperfect the levitical law was as a remedy for sin, as scripturally demonstrated below:
“11. 👉If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood,👈 (for under it the people received the law,) 👉what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?👈 12. 👉For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”👈 (Hebrews 7:11-12, KJV)
If Leviticus 16 rituals actually took away sin, there would be no need for Jesus’ Melchizedek Ministry. Leviticus 16 were shadows and could never perfectly explain the plan of Salvation nor could it perfectly take away sin. The goat for Azazel could have represented the typical removal of sin that is put away for a while until another year of typical sin removal.
“18. For there is verily a 👉👉disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.👈👈 19. For 👉👉the law made nothing perfect,👈👈 but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.” (Hebrews 7:18-19, KJV)
“1. For 👉👉the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.👈👈 2. 👉For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.👈 3. 👉But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.👈 4. 👉For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”👈 (Hebrews 10:1-4, KJV)
“And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which 👉can never take away sins:”👈 (Hebrews 10:11, KJV)
This shows that though there were lessons in type and figures of what God wanted to do with sin for the benefit of the Hebrews, those shadows, figures and types NEVER ACTUALLY REMOVED SIN. Sin lived on until the very next year and the year after. It was also not a perfect pattern of the heavenly sanctuary as seen in Hebrews 10:1.
The goat for Azazel in staying alive, could have represented the continuance of sin until the Perfect Sacrifice came. The fact that it was yearly, demonstrated that possibility even more.
When Jesus came, there was no longer a need for sin to continue in our lives with a troubled conscience, and a yearly remembrance of sin. When Jesus suffered without the camp, it was ONCE FOR ALL:
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ 👉once for all.”👈 (Hebrews 10:10, KJV)
👉“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”👈 (Hebrews 10:14, KJV)
In first first century we were therefore welcomed to enter the Most Holy Place before October 22nd 1844:
“19. 👉Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the HOLIEST by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, THROUGH THE VEIL, that is to say, his flesh;👈 21. And having an HIGH PRIEST over the house of God; 22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.” (Hebrews 10:19-22, KJV)
___
You defined the “Sin offering” this way:
1. Killed in the camp.
2. Blood used in temple.
3. Dead body taken outside the camp.
This is just to demonstrate how the Shadows of the good things that were to come were never the perfect image of reality:
1.Jesus was NOT killed in the camp in the temple as the typical Sin Offering was killed before the Lord (Leviticus 4:4; 16:15).
2.The typical sin offering goat and bullock were carried without the camp as dead animals already slain before the Lord. But the Antitypical Sin Offering in Jesus, was carried ALIVE WITHOUT THE CAMP and THEN SLAIN. His dead body was not carried from the temple to be burnt outside. There was no burning of His body. Jesus was led to a place called Golgotha, which means "the place of the skull" (Matthew 27:33, Mark 15:22, Luke 23:33, John 19:17). This site is described as being outside the city walls of Jerusalem. This is consistent with Roman practices of executing criminals outside the city limits. “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.” (Hebrews 13:12, KJV)
3.The blood of the typical sin offering was carried into the temple. But the blood of Jesus was offered in heaven.
4.The goat for Azazel went alive in the direction of Azazel which resided in the wilderness. Jesus during His ministry, went alone to be tempted for 40 days in the wilderness. (I do not know if there is a relation but it seemed that both Azazel and Satan were in the wilderness and a sin barer went to them in both the type and antitype)
Possibly the bodies of the sin offering being burned outside the gate represent unrepentant sinners being destroyed outside the gate when god sends fire from heaven to destroy Satan and the wicked in Rev 20.
Jesus as our propitiation for sin experienced the penalty of our
sin which is the second death.
Awaiting a response from pastor Myers. Thanks for the presentation and the reply of kylontobias.
Everyone questions God why evil is created, why satan existed? We have no idea what lies ahead. God created Lucifer to fulfill the final cleansing of sins of the people of God on the judgement day x day of atonement (satan as the scapegoat). The reason why satan existed, it is all planned. The message from the sanctuary has so much meanings.
Audio was fine!
So by their logic we needed two Jesus's to make an Atonement. 🙄
You took the words right out of my mouth 😅
@larrybedouin21 Exactly! Christ was offered ONCE, not twice, like these people believing the scapegoat Jesus.. SMH.
@Mary Martinez Dear sister, you are in every conversation. Please go back and review the videos that Pastor Myers has done on this topic along with the fundamental beliefs. Maybe these will answer some of your questions. Blessings!
@@kindnesswins2025Mary seems to love being a troll, or being a hack, as a means of getting attention for herself/himself. I have come to the conclusion that it's best to ignore her/him. Let them knock themselves out with their own antics....
Im going to leave a little tune with you @Mary Martinez and all the opposers of the Word that Pastor Myers has so beautifully shared. The tune goes like this..
🎼READ your BIBLE PRAY every day and you’ll GROW. GROW. GROW.
🎼NEGLECT your BIBLE forget to pray and you’ll SHRINK. SHRINK. SHRINK.
We have to study, study, study like Pastor Myers has done so that we we will grow and not shrink.😊
I will not take up the challenge as your presentations have been clear.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Bearing false witness is a sin. Anyway, comment here. You seem to be plastering my comment section with claims that your comments are being deleted yet your comments about being deleted are not deleted. Whatever is going on, I am not deleting anything. So please stop bearing false witness. Not a good look.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Are you using links in your responses? I’ve noticed RUclips deleting them.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I think the software checks for links and filters them out. Thats my assumption. I included links as a resource on another video and they were filtered so I had to reference it another way. Are you using links?
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Jesus Christ throughout the year bore the sins of the people all year. Those sins were brought into the sanctuary and defiled it. Every one of those sin offering represented the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. On the day of atonement a final sin offering is made. Scripture shows us this in Leviticus 16. The priest used a bullock for his sin offering and the goat for the congregation. The result of that offering was not forgiveness of sins but cleansing of the sanctuary. The sins from the year are then placed on the live goat.
That live goat was not dedicated to the Lord but was set apart for Azazel. If both represent Jesus why not dedicate them both to God?
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I am saying I deleted all your statements about me deleting your comments, and LEFT UP ALL you comments in which you are addressing the issue and the argument. You have been spamming my wall with "why are you deleting my comments" and so that is what I decided to delete. ALL you comments addressing the scapegoat are up and I have not deleted any of those. I also said if you continue to spam my wall with "why did you delete me comments" I will stop you from commenting at all. You can disagree with me theologically but do not accuse me with baseless claims or you will no longer be permitted to comment here.
Powerful
I'm confused did the devil make atonement for me?
No, Satan made atonement for his part in sin. He bears the guilt of all the sins ever committed. The Goat dedicated to the Lord already made atonement for us when it was offered as a sacrifice and shed blood and then was brought without the camp. That part of the ritual cleanses the sanctuary.
@@jwesKeys I don't see tht in the bible. Can atonement be completed with the sin still in the camp? The sin was not removed until the scapegoat left. How can it have been completed with the sin still there? Thts why I'm confused.
@@mrwolley1741 Excellent point. The plan of salvation is not complete, sin is not removed from the earth until sin and death and Satan are gone. "1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
@@powerofthelamb so the type of the goat was more effective than the antitype? Atonement in the OT was completed on the day of atonement. How is it that Jesus was a superior sacrifice according to Hebrews yet he requires thousands of years and counting to do what a goat did in one day? Let tht sink in... I know you probably have theology to support, which is fine. Salvation was not completed on the cross, but we're waiting on the devil to perform his part of the process? How then to you account for these passages: Rom 5:9-11 KJV 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. WE HV NOW RECEIVED (PAST TENSE) ATONEMENT. I can cite other passages, but I don't want to be able too long. We can now go boldly before God's throne, cus of what Jesus did, but the process is not complete? I'm confused... How much does God really hate sin. Jesus is the second Adam, when the first Adam ate the fruit, the process of sin entering the world WAS complete. But when the second ADAM died, he failed to complete the process. Pls clarify
1
Sin offering
The Lords goat symbolized the removal of sin from the people which Jesus accomplished on the cross and the Scapegoat symbolized the removal of sin from the Sanctuary and it being placed on the head of azazel for him to bare in the wilderness which Satan will do during the 1,000 years.
So nicely put. So nicely put!!!
2
~You should explain in detail the sanctuary message - type and antitype. The scapegoat was the only animal ever involved in the myriad sin offering ceremonies that was let lose alive. And on the day of atonement. Every other animal morning and evening sacrifices were killed. Why would the scapegoat then ever represent, or be the only thing to represent that which was killed, etc. and not follow the other representations? Because it does not represent Christ. Sin must be dealt with. And will in the end. So will Satan. The sin transferred to the sanctuary type/ antitype will be transferred to Satan to be eternally dealt with. Azazel certainly does not seem to fit in any degree to represent Christ.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Who is responsible for bringing sin into the universe, Jesus or Satan?
Doesn't this sanctuary and scapegoat theory need the Levitical priesthood?
The law determined that the Levitical priests, descendants of Aaron in the tribe of Levi were the only ones to deal with the sanctuary duties (Ex 28 & 29, Num 16 ) and this would have included the day of atonement scapegoat. Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and our priest in the order of Melchizedek. (Heb 7) The old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13). Didn't what was made obsolete include Levitical priesthood duties such as the day of Atonement activities? When there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. (Heb 7:12). Wouldn't a new priesthood then mean a new law regarding how sin is dealt with? Wouldn't this then mean no more Levitical-type ceremonies including a sanctuary with a future day of atonement-like ceremony?
It would also mean no sanctuary. Yet we find Christ in a sanctuary. Jesus is high priest after the order of Melchesidek in that he priesthood does not pass on to the offspring and that’s because Jesus loves forever. It does not mean the types of the sanctuary are done away with.
@@powerofthelambThe sanctuary scapegoat theory is future tense, correct?
I’m reading Hebrews 9-25-26 specifically v26 which is written in past tense. “ for then, he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
So is it not saying that Christ has put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (past tense)?
@@ChandraJ650 Is sin still present in the world? Or has sin been put away? If Christ putting away sin occurred at the cross, which we believe it did, then why is sin still present in the world? And how will this sin be removed?
@@powerofthelamb Minute 26: Isaiah 53:6 states that the iniquity of us all was laid on HIM. I'm struggling to find a text directly connecting the Levitical day of atonement ceremony with future (end times) events. Does not Revelation 20 answer the removal question?
@@powerofthelamb Hebrews 7:27 - Christ fulfilled the sacrifice for sin "once for all when he offered up himself." I think, from a reading of Revelation 20, that anyone whose sins are not propitiated for, will bear their own sins. I'm having trouble finding passages that mention anything other than types and shadows having to do with sin in an eschatological sense, pointing to Christ alone. This includes Hebrews 8:5 which appears to point to Christ's ministry in the new covenant.
REMOVED
Does this mean the sin is not in the blood but in the body? That is why the body was burned up? but the blood is used to cleanse the temple? The blood is the life and therefore it’s the life of Jesus in the temple?
The blood transferred the record of sin to the temple. The body outside the camp signified the assurance of the removal of sin from the individual.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv thank you. You may continue to comment along these lines and disagree.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv Why does the tabernacle need to be cleansed on the day of Atonement? Cleansed from what?
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv
How long does Jesus bear the sins of the world?
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv ok so He bears the sins of saints just at the cross?
Sir, if the two goats are to be *without blemish*, and you believe that one of them is a type of Satan. Do you really believe that Satan is without blemish and part of the forgiveness of sins and cleansing process? If you do, then you are a Satanist or Luciferian, not a follower of Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of Almighty God, the maker of heaven and earth.
This is a statement of ignorance. To you know how many Christian scholars from Origen, and Irenaeus, to modern day scholars hold that the scapegoat represents Satan?? Go research before making such statements. Jesus is our savior. Satan will be punished for sin. Where is the heresy in that? Seriously? Go and study more.
Here the NIV Commentary on Azazel.
"“This goat is said to be for Azazel (vv. 8, 10, 26). What is meant by the term is uncertain. Different etymologies are suggested to fit in with different interpretations. ******The most popular explanation among commentators is that Azazel is the name of a demon that lived in the wilderness.******* Three arguments are adduced in favor of this view. First, Azazel is in direct contrast with the Lord (v. 8). Would “the Lord” (Heb.YHWH), God’s personal name, be contrasted with something impersonal? Second, in later Jewish literature Azazel (Enoch 8:1; 9:6) is the name of a demon. Third, the OT looks on the wilderness as the haunt of demons and similar creatures (Lev. 17:7; Isa. 13:21; 34:14; cf. Matt. 12:43, etc.).
Those who adopt this interpretation insist that the goat was not viewed as a sacrifice or gift to Azazel. The sins of Israel were simply being sent back to their author, Azazel, who lived in the desert. Despite this disclaimer, it is not difficult to see the rite being misinterpreted as a gift to the demon, if Azazel is a demon’s name. There is, therefore, force in Hertz’s objection to this view. “The offering of sacrifices to ‘satyrs’ is spoken of as a heinous crime in the very next chapter (17:7); homage to a demon of the wilderness cannot, therefore, be associated with the holiest of the Temple-rites in the chapter immediately preceding.”
Hoffmann and Hertz19 prefer another interpretation, namely, that Azazel is a rare Hebrew noun meaning “complete destruction.”
A third possibility is that Azazel means “rocky precipice”; this was Rashi’s explanation. “It was a precipitous and flinty rock.” More recently this interpretation has been endorsed by G. R. Driver,21 who gives a fresh derivation of the term.
If v. 22 is an expansion of what is said earlier in v. 10, as I have argued, Rashi would be justified in taking “land of cutting off” as interpretative of Azazel. If this phrase is understood to mean a land that is cut off, it would support Azazel as meaning “rocky” or “craggy.” If it means a place that cuts off, Azazel may be better interpreted “total destruction” as suggested by Hertz and Hoffmann.
Whatever we understand by Azazel, there is little doubt about the total meaning of the ceremony. ********************“Whether Azazel means, the mountain where the goat is destroyed, the sin which is given to destruction, or the evil angel who is given a bribe so that he does not become an accuser, it all comes back to the same basic idea: that sin is exterminated from Israel.”***********
NIV Commentary
No commentator or Scholar who holds that the scapegoat is Satan believes that Satan is their savior. Commentators don't agree on what Azazel means, but none of them call the other Satan worshippers. Slow down.
@powerofthelamb Take a billion scholars of you will, even seven billion, none of them can stand against the plainly written word of God which by the way, is also a part of Christ, the Word made flesh. (I edited this comment and removed the Leviticus 16:5 quote I had, as the words "without blemish" is not found there, and there was an omission of the one ram for a burnt offering. )
@@leshabenn3368 You don't really believe this, do you? For then your position would be heresy because it would be outside the mainstream. But wait, isn't this exactly what SDA critics use against us? You are reading the word incorrectly based on what you were taught by somebody. We can just as easily say you are worshipping Satan in believing the scapegoat that was not "For the Lord" which was not sacrificed, is a type of Jesus. Again. Slow down. This is a difference in view in the meaning of a symbol, not of a reality. None of us believe that Satan is our Savior or dies to redeem us. You are doing too much.
@powerofthelamb I apologize if my initial comment came across as being uncharitable and condemnatory to SDA's as a whole. That was not my goal, nor wording. I was merely stating the logical and spiritual implications *if one really believes* that Satan is without blemish and is part of the sin offering in Leviticus chapter 16. (Scripturally, all sacrifices had to be without blemish.) I am aware that regardless of the church we attend, some of our beliefs are sometimes founded on what we were taught by others, and their interpretation of Scripture. However, there will come a time when all beliefs must be built on Jesus Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the unity of the Holy Scriptures. We either fall on the Rock and be broken, , or it will fall on us. Mainstream is not the narrow gate, thankfully. Regarding potential heresy: how is reading the entire chapter of Leviticus 16 and seeing Christ in *all* the sacrifices and offerings ordained by Almighty God truly seen as such?
This is my sharing in response to the 24 hr challenge:
Part of the confusion surrounding Lev 16:8-10 seems to come from the usage of the word “scapegoat.” In the Merriam-Webster dictionary, under the section “The History of Scapegoat”, this is what it says concerning the word “scapegoat:”
***“The English scapegoat is a compound of the archaic verb scape, which means "escape," and goat, and is modeled on a misreading of the Hebrew ʽazāzēl (which is probably the name of a demon) as ʽēz 'ōzēl , "the goat that departs." More modern translations render scapegoat in this text as Azazel, but the misreading endured and has entered the lexicon.”***
With that said my answer to the 24 hr challenge is as follows:
2 goats of Lev. 16:8-10:
#1 goat lot is “the Lord’s goat” “the sin offering” used for the purpose as mentioned in Leviticus.
#2 goat’s lot is “not” referred to as “the Lord’s sin offering goat.” This goat is
listed as 5799 in Hebrew = azazel and is to be used for a specific purpose, that differs from the Lord’s goat, as listed in Leviticus 16:8-10.
Bible versions I took into consideration Lev 16:10:
Christian Standard Bible
“But the goat chosen by lot for an uninhabitable place is to be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement with it by sending it into the wilderness for an uninhabitable place.
English Revised Version
“But the goat, on which the lot fell for Azazel, shall be set alive before the LORD, to make atonement for him, to send him away for Azazel into the wilderness.”
NET Bible
“but the goat which has been designated by lot for Azazel is to be stood alive before the LORD to make atonement on it by sending it away to Azazel into the wilderness.”
New American Bible
But the goat determined by lot for Azazel he shall place before the LORD alive, so that with it he may make atonement by sending it off to Azazel in the desert
These versions brings to mind “for me” “The Judgement” verses found Matt 25:33,46:
33“and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left….”46These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” This is part of the final judgement that has to do with the war that broke out in heaven between Michael and His angels who fought against the dragon, Satan, and his angels. This also parallels with the 2 goats in which a distinction is to be made. Goat #2 isn’t the Lord’s goat. It has a distinct “atoning” purpose. This goat symbolizes for me: 1. The goat that represents and bears the essence of sins, its sinful character, that was cleansed from the people of God by the blood of Jesus. This live goat carries the essence of these sins to the originator of sin, Satan. The next text that comes to my mind is Rev 20:10 Under the Bible section ironically title “Satan Freed and Doomed” 10”And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [f]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” This is “symbolic to me” as the uninhabitable place that nets everlasting destruction of all things that remain and maintain the labeling of sin which is inclusive of the 2nd goat.
I am still very much in the learning curve concerning how to study the word of God. But this one teaching that I continually embrace from the Bible and is found in
Isaiah 55:8-9 and it reads:
8”For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
9“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
May we all be found always willing to be lead of and taught by the Holy Spirit in all things is my prayer.
My time is up. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this 24 Hour Challenge. May God bless each and everyone of you.
2 post and no ups and no reply s someone please up or comment you may correct me.but it may be shadow banned? I really need to know.
This post came through.
@@powerofthelambbut what of the other 2 ? You need not reply as this ( singular) they ( plural ) speaks for it's self.the gist of my text was the Bible make clear the Azaele bares it's own iniquity in a desolate place.that being earth after Hebrews 9 verse 28 is complete. So may the Lord keep you and bless you and all your lot.
I just finished watching Ivor Myer’s “24 Hour Scapegoat Bombshell Challenge”! Mouthful there! I’d like to respond.
Mr. Myers should do a bit more studying because the bodies of the sin offerings were only burnt outside the camp when the blood of the victim was taken into the sanctuary. If the blood wasn’t, then the bodies of the sin offerings were eaten in the court by the priest who offered it (Lev 6:25-26, 30). Also, there were different types of these sin/trespass offerings depending on the trespass and the economic circumstances of the sinner (Lev 5:6-12).
Now, concerning the burnt offerings that Mr. Myers mentioned, where did the sin ultimately end up, in the sanctuary or outside the camp in the fire? If outside as Mr. Myers put it, then the book of Hebrews stands correct, and the atonement has already been accomplished and there is no truth to SDA’s investigative judgment anyway. If you say that the sin was outside the camp and simultaneously inside of the Tabernacle, then perhaps you can grasps that it was also upon the Scapegoat and all point to the One (as was sin represented in the fat that was burned upon the altar to also make atonement which was after the Scapegoat being let go which was before the burning of the bodies outside the camp (Lev 16:25-27)).
Myer’s challenge supposes that there was only one animal that was a sin offering, but the Scripture is clear that both the bullock and goats were sin offerings (Lev 16:5-6)-not to mention that the blood of both were used to make atonement inside the holiest of all (Lev 16:14-15).
CHALLENGE
“Since the death and expiation of sin is typified in 👉ONE SACRIFICE,👈 as is demonstrated in the 👉daily services👈 of the sin 👉offerings👈, a second goat would not have been needed to typify what was typified in the Lord's goat, namely, that it died for sin, and bore away our sins. Since the goat for Azazel does not fit the description of a sin offering, what then was the purpose of the goat for Azazel?” -Ivor Myers
I wonder why no Bible writers connected the Scapegoat with Satan, but we SDAs cherry pick and proof text our doctrines (not I)?! 🤨
Again, go as far as what you can read people:
Leviticus 16:5-6,11 KJV
And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. [6] And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. [11] And Aaron shall bring the bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and shall make an atonement for himself, and for his house, and shall kill the bullock of the sin offering which is for himself:
Hebrews 9:11-12,24-26 KJV
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; [12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the 👉[most] holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. [24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: [25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the [most] holy place every year with blood of others; [26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:10,12-14,19-20 KJV
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ 👉once for all. [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins 👉for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; [13] From henceforth 👉expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. [14] For by one offering he hath perfected 👉for ever them that are sanctified. [19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the 👉holiest by the blood of Jesus, [20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh
So, there is no consequences from sin after the cross…well all this pain and suffering must be a mind matrix. Sorry for being facetious, but it is experientially false that atonement is completed.
Thank you for your response. As far as different offerings for different people, be it priest, ruler, or congregation and the different types of offerings, this is common knowledge. This has nothing to do however with the fact that the sin offering being burned outside the camp demonstrated sin being removed *****from the sinner, ****not from the tabernacle, as is demonstrated by the fact that the tabernacle needed to be cleansed on the day of atonement and thus was not cleansed any day before it. “Lev 16:19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.” Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of ******reconciling the holy place, and *****the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:” The Blood signified that a “record of sin” remained in the temple, while the sinner himself had received the assurance of pardon for sin, and separation from his sin, in the body burned outside the temple. Sin was removed from the sinner, but the record of it remained in the temple. The Sanctuary still needed to be cleansed on the day of atonement with a final removal of the record of sin on that day. A transfer of already confessed sin from the sanctuary were placed on the scapegoat but he was NOT a SIN OFFERING. No blood, no death, no dead body outside the camp.
As far as the idea that the day of Atonement happened at the cross, it is a failure to understand that the feasts days unfold in chronological order. The feast of Unleavened bread and Firstfruits, and Pentecost, all occur after the feast of Passover, yet these feasts which include shadows of the sacrifice of Christ were fulfilled AFTER the crucifixion of Christ, including Pentecost being fulfilled a full 50 days AFTER the crucifixion event. This ultimate sets the way to the false understanding that the day of atonement which occurred 7 month AFTER Passover is really the same thing as Passover in which case, why have a day of atonement is it is just Passover repackaged? No, the fact that sins were forgiven in the type, removed from the INDIVIDUAL but still recorded in the Sanctuary through the blood disproves what you are saying.
Again, the problem here is simple and the basis of the challenge. The Scapegoat was not necessary to do what the Lord goats had already done. This symbol of the Scapegoat must fulfill a different purpose. The scapegoat does not meet the requirement of a sin offering. Both the forgiveness of sin and its removal ***from the sinner where typified in one sacrifice, with no need for a second animal to complete the lesson.
My challenge does not suppose “that there was only one animal that was a sin offering.” Yes, the bullock and the goat are detailed examples of a “sin offering”. The scapegoat fits none of the criteria. Both the bullock and the Lord's goat were killed, both had their blood used, and both had their bodies burned outside the camp. Yes, Jesus is our sin bearer. But the scapegoat serves different purpose. What is that purpose?
You wrote, I wonder why no Bible writers connected the Scapegoat with Satan, but we SDAs cherry pick and proof text our doctrines (not I)?!
I would ask in return, please show what writer in the Bible connected the Scapegoat with Jesus. What text?
Finally, the challenge it to demonstrate the scapegoat is part of a single sin offering. Demonstrate how this is so when the Scapegoat does not fit the requirements of sin offering in that it does not die, its blood is not used, and its body is not burned.
so, in a nutshell, what you’re saying then is that two goats were for the Lord? The verse is clear that only one was for the Lord. It is not rocket science to tell the difference between one and two. Also, one does not need a PhD or higher learning to recognize when something ends and another thing begins. Leviticus 16:20.
was this your best answer to the challenge? I have a challenge of my own, but since this is Pastor Myers video, I will refrain from asking it here. However, if you are curious and want to know my challenge, feel free to reach out to me.
much love to you. PS. You said we SD is, are you a seventh day Adventist? if so, is it the honest thing to remain in the church while disparaging its teachings?
again, much love to you.
@Sayless_Beloved didn't even notice that in the same verse he quoted, it directly says that expiation took place at the moment of SACRIFICE:
Hebrews 9:26 KJV - For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to 👉 PUT AWAY SIN 👈 by the 👉 SACRIFICE 👈 of himself.
The scapegoat was not "sacrificed."
@@AdventDefenseLeague NICE!!!
Doesn't the Lords Goat Represent Jesus taking all repetitive Children of Gods sins being forgiven!!! And the scapegoat represent the peoples sins and satan who refused Jesus Forgiveness!!! Which will be copleted at the coming of Je sus to get His Children who have accepted Salvation through Jesus! Which is as soon as His Children Believe and walk daily with Him! 🤔🤔🤔
regarding your "challange" - what better way to grasp the profound mystery of salvation than by juggling symbols of sacrificial goats? It's almost as if a simple narrative of Christ's love and redemption wasn't quite enough without a livestock demonstration!. who wouldn't see the depth of divine love through a couple of goats? It's almost like saying that to really understand the vast ocean, you only need to look at a puddle. But hey, maybe that’s the beauty of it-sometimes, the greatest truths are hidden in plain sight, waiting for a discerning eye to connect the dots. After all, isn't it fascinating how layers of meaning can be found in the most unexpected places? Hmmmm because seemingly nothing says divine atonement like a pair of goats, right? One gets the knife, the other gets a free pass into the wilderness-just think about it. It's almost as if the whole narrative of redemption and sin is woven into these simple, rustic rituals. Sometimes, the most profound truths are hidden in plain sight, waiting for those who take a moment to ponder the symbolism. Just think about it. Actually not so difficult: The one goat is sacrificed (symbolizing Christ’s ....) and the other (the scapegoat) carries sins away (symbolizing Christ’s role in .....). Just think.
Sounds poetic. Just not biblical.
@@powerofthelamb not biblical? Hard to "discuss" with someone who has already settled his perception. You just want one answer which you like.
@@aid4heaven Just saying, bring verses to prove what you are saying. That’s how you meet the challenge. Not “it’s almost as if”. “Is almost as if” is some close but not the actual thing. I want the real thing, not the “ almost as if.”
@@powerofthelamb you know the answer but wouldn't accept it since it does not fit into your concept.
@@aid4heaven I know the answer. Wow. Ok. You got me! You win. No answer necessary.
You are lost
23 hours and 45 minutes.
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv I am still going to extend grace. One more time. I have deleted all you spam comments about me deleting your posts and left the ones up where you actually stated your scriptural objections. I told you if you did it once more, I would block you. I am again giving you one more chance to stop spamming the comment section with your accusations.
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