Are Slot Machines Getting Tighter? We Ask an Expert!
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- We interview Josh O'Connell, editor of www.FlipTheSwit..., and we discuss if slot machines are truly getting tighter in casinos. We discuss why players may think machines are tighter even if payback percentages are not lower.
In regards to his initial comments, my 2 cents here is that we are noticing machines paying less not only in our own experience, but also by watching several channels win zero bonuses, 3 or 4x the bet bonuses. No matter how high the bet is. And that is happening too often. It wasn't like that before the pandemic.
I play weekly and have noticed a huge changes on several games in multiple casinos just dea spins no bonuses and rarely even seeing bonus symbols on all denom sand bets, I have never gone a month without a win or jackpot until now even watching many of the RUclipsrs it’s the same
Got the chance to meet Josh during the Multipliers Rising video poker debut. Telling me about his move out to SoCal, etc. Nice guy. Regarding slots getting tighter, many of the new games (and future trends based on manufacturer’s psychology research) is so heavily bonus based (as mentioned with Huff n More Puff example), players blow through their bankroll quicker because they don’t have line hits to replenish their bankroll. If they don’t hit the bonus, they are out of money, get up and complain it’s “tighter”. While at the same time, on lower volatility games, people will complain the bonus pays very little while getting many line hits, and say this slot sucks while ignoring they had sat there playing 2-3x longer. No one remembers line hits and small bonus win, just the big bonus wins. Companies will just keep putting out more of these types of games, players will complain while being part of the problem, but like a crackhead will come back and do it again 🙃
I agree. The original Quick Hit machines is the opposite-a game with more line hits and more 5x bet hits (hitting 4 quick hits to win $7.50 on a $1.50 bet), but so many times you can get free games and hit little to nothing. People started playing Dragon Link and they like that when they get the bonus, the majority of the time they get at least 10x+ bet bonuses. But the line hits are so small that you're basically almost playing a 3 reel machine that's 5 reels, but people don't really notice that. In fact, I'm noticing 3 reel machines are making a comeback. At my local casino, on giveaway days, the regulars all play the same 50 machines out of 3,000, so 85% of the machines in the casino will be empty, but good luck getting on a Dragon Link or a Dollar Storm.
Right now, people like the majors and the hand pays. They'd rather not get those line hits if they get the majors more. It's when they want to play for 3 hours on $100, but want to bet $5+ a spin when they get into problems, and start betting on higher denominations chasing those majors and hand pays. You can play $.50 a spin and play a while, or you can play $10 a spin and play a little, but you can't have it both ways unless you're prepared for big swings and big losses.
I think there's room for both (and I like both), but OG Quick Hit machines, and games like them, such as Power Strike and Hee Haw, are a dying breed. Sadly. A lot of games are a 3 pot or a 6 symbol bonus. It seems right now there are less casual gamers like myself, and more serious gamers, and it is what it is.
Very correct. Would add the minimum bet size keeps creeping higher. Not only on table games, but also on slots. The current trends continue minimum bets on slots for newer machines will be a dollar, (Ok .99). The overall experience is becoming less attractive for the dollars spent.
The casinos are on the verge of killing the Goose that lays the golden eggs because they are aquireing a taste for Goose.
@@bobflatman278 It's actually worse than that. More and more games that have 6 and 7 figure jackpots require a $3-$5 minimum bet to be eligible for the jackpot.
I noticed a drop in wins since the Pandemic, thought the Casinos feared a big drop in players. And since that time the gaming industry boast record revenues every year.
I’m having a hard time believing every time I have been going every day different times the machine is tight and I loose everything before they start hitting. Why is it one machine is giving and everybody else is tight?
I sure miss the old slots. Three reels one line 25 cents and $1 😢
They are much more difficult to win on now than in the last 20 years I've played. The slots are definitely tighter. You don't need an expert to tell you this. Yes the percentages may be similar but a lot of the slots are volatile. They give you a chance to win huge, but 99% of the time you are just throwing money away. If you have the bankroll to play big you will probably run into some nice wins, but for the average player its like they are just flushing money down.
Very knowledgeable guest!
Great informative video. Its good to see a "switch up" like this one every once in awhile.
Glad you liked it!
I believe that the casinos in native America reservations have their slot machines a lot tighter than in state registrated casinos.
That does not apply at all to Yamaava. Much more winning there than the strip. and don't even mention the millions given away every week in cars, cash and free play.
I disagree NA casinos in MI pay over 90% at Penny level
Absolutely. There are days were 0 out of 30 machines played pay very low bonuses and tons of dead spins. They rob people blind especially on days they have promotions
@JohnnyXtreme I'm really comparing the two Connecticut casinos in native American reservations like foxwoods and Mohegan Sun to a state run casino called Jack's 58 on Longisland New York. New York passed a bill to make NY casinos more fair.
This is why I play video poker, everything is transparent.
Casino greed will put them out of business. Having the option to bet one five,ten or twenty coins per spin keeps the player
Engaged for a longer session.
I have quit playing slots because it's like throwing money away. I'm back to table games.😊
Table games is throwing money away faster.
Very informative! Thank you!
As most people already know, all slot machines have the ability to be setup to a fairly large range of payback percentages. The casino makes this final decision. An absolute truth in this business is that ANY and EVERY casino that is owned by Caesars(Harrahs, Horseshoe, all Las Vegas properties) the slots are set at the lowest available payback percentage, no matter what game it is. It has been this way since probably around 2005 or so, even before their bankruptcy and ownership change. They have zero interest in you having time on device, they want to get in you in and get you out.
I would love having a tool where one could enter the number of spins, the payback experienced, and how likely it is for that experienced payback to be considered normal (a bell curve showing the true payback range given that number of spins). For example, I played at a Las Vegas "locals" casino for one year (two or three visits each month) and based on my coin-in number, I think I did about 30K spins total. My win/loss statement showed a payback rate of only 84%. My own internal tracking confirmed that number to be pretty close. That payback rate seems abysmal for a local casino, but I don't know if this was due to just really horrible luck or if their machines are set extremely tight. I decided to just stop going to that casino.
Very informative info guys! Thank You!!👍😁
Glad you enjoyed it!
i think the biggest crap going on is the basket games. if the basket is big it should go off soon. that is not right to go off any time they cuold but they need to go off when they are bursting at the sims. not taking in 1,000;s pretending to go off soon
Very good insights offered from Josh! Much appreciated for doing another interview with Josh! To me, one way I noticed that slot machines are getting tighter was that most casinos on the Vegas Strip in the 1990s used to have flashy signs that say Up to 98% payback. Those signs are long gone because slots do not pay back that much anymore to finance the nice looking infrastructure.
If a casino happens to have a machine that is paying very frequently. Is there a point where the casino will take that machine off the floor due to too frequent payouts or will they wait for those millions of spins to average out?
The casinos monitor the actual paybacks to make sure they are consistent with what they are programmed to return. However, they need to let it perform for awhile. The more spins on the machine the more confidence they will have in the numbers they see. In the short run anything can happen, but when a machine has closer to one million plays on it, the results should be more accurate.
Old machines came in a wider range of RTP options. Many of the really old steppers could be ordered with RTP ranging from 75% to 98%. Triple Diamond was reportedly 75.159% to 97.997%. First coin was 75.032% to just skirt Nevada regs. New games often do not include these extremes. Purely penny denom games might max out at 95% or less. Kinda hard to set those games to 97% RTP when it does not have that option.
Although I am sure these numbers are accurate, it amazes me the public is suppose to understand this jargon. Return to players is simply an algorithm. This jargon makes it sound like there is one single algorithm for each machine. There are dozens and hundreds of approved paybacks or RTP for each slot. No regulation on switching Algorithms. No regulation on if a slot falls below the expected payback. No regulation on the sizes of a RTP allows for a robbery. A person oil put in $100 bill and get three $25 paybacks before losing it all (with the algorithm giving 0% chance of a larger win) and this would be a 75% RTP. Fully legal.
@@petergoodman1337 RTP is the theoretical average result based on the probability of winning. If the only prize is $25 and the odds of winning are 1/33, the theoretical RTP of the game is 75%.
Thanks for the response@4jp. So does this 1/33 Algorithm run simultaneously to the 1/100,000 Algorithm to payout a very large jackpot? My point is people logically assume this is pure random and someone had equal chance over the 100,000 spins. This would be an incorrect assumption if the 75% RTP at 1/33 spins algorithm is running most of the time. After a certain amount of profits happen then a new Algorithm is entered. A casino never loses and players are being lied too by these RTP,’s.
In my experience the older machines pay better, and more often. All these new fancy machines look good, but they pay out less on the bonus hits, and they hit a bonus way less than the older machines.
Steve, I 100% agree. The reason is logical too. The older machined do not have advertised mini, maxi, major, grand jackpots that someday must hit. The slot manufacturers were legally able to add these bonus payments into the payback % RTP. If the RTP is below the expected payback it is simply explained away because the grand or major never hit. The old machines also had or have fewer algorithms running. This means the older machines either payout, cold, or just go back and forth with more time playing.
What about slots on cruise ships?
They are generally set to a slightly lower payback percentage as they have a "captive" audience.
And who regulates them? I have noticed that the VP machines are 8/5, which doesn’t seem too bad!
100%. Same goes for state run scratchers. It can't even be considered gambling anymore.
Where is the link to the video Matt was talking about?
Yes I like these type of vlogs from ACGB. more please. 👍
they say every win or loss is random (RNG) and yet every machine is set to pay back certain percentage !! the question is, how to pre set something RANDOM ??
There is essentially a spreadsheet programmed into the slot machine where each random number has a payout amount. If numbers are randomly picked, the payback will eventually converge to that given percentage, though it may take a large number of picks. Think of it as flipping a coin. Flip it enough times and you'll get very close to 50% heads, 50% tails. For a small number of flips, however, you will see much more variability.
always enjoyed your videos guys...I love the banter back and forth between father and son...thanks for the info...
Thanks for watching!
I cleaned up on slots in Aruba.
Hit big constantly, including a major, $761.
Loved this, guys! 💥💯🎉
There's one thing I know that got tighter, and that is Roulette. Las Vegas has the triple 000 Roulette tables now.
Nice to put a face to Josh. He was a great addition during your lives in previous years. Good luck Gents and Josh.
Server based tech affected payouts … it is set up in way more casinos than people are aware
I hate when they say it’s random. Total nonsense! If it was 100% random, they can’t say the machine has a specific payback percentage. The only way they can justify this is using a payback load balancer. I would like you to explain this better. The machine keeps track of dollars in and out and adjusts the share number of winning or losing hands accordingly.
There is essentially a spreadsheet programmed into the slot machine where each random number has a payout amount. If numbers are randomly picked, the payback will eventually converge to that given percentage, though it may take a large number of picks (spins). Casinos don't care whether you, as an individual slot player, wins or not. All they care about is that their machines are played many, many times. The more the machines are played, the cumulative total will converge on the payback percentages they have set on their machines. The spreadsheets in the slot machines are designed that way. They don't need to do any special tricks to make that happen. The payback percentages are less than 100%, so they will come out ahead.
I think in the UK there is a governor function that actually loads the RNG to give back more or less if the payback is outside a specific range. That doesn’t exist in Nevada style gaming.
There is nothing random when it comes to the way slot machines are programmed.
IMO, casinos across the nation has lowered the payback percentages due to the increasing popularity of slot machines directly in line with the increasing popularity of YT slot channels where they post mostly winning sessions.
It worked on me as I’m not really a slot player but watched a lot of a lot videos prior to my 7-day trip to Vegas and chased a CET tier upgrade during Dec 2023. With $30K+ coin in, I lost $7K during my 7 day session without a single winning day. 76% RTP 😢😅
But I went from gold to Diamond Plus. 😂
I had moved away from starting my sessions
on video poker. I think I'll go back to it. I have been complaining to my wife that things have changed for the worse. Dancing drums has been a clear example.
People who complain about "tighter" slots play the wrong games. Play the older reel games and if your casino gets rid of them, stop going. A physical reel has a certain number of line stops. An electronic video "reel" has an infinite number of stops, making it much harder to win. That's why those games pay less on the line hits and you only get real good payouts if you win the bonus game. And they are not going to have everyone who sits down win the bonus game. But if people keep throwing away their money in those games, the casinos will keep adding them. Player behavior is dictating what the casinos are doing.
I miss those older slots. 🎰
It’s very simple to see if the slots are getting “tighter” by looking up the reports that casinos have to file with their local gaming commissions. You can look up the payouts on the slots and compare them with years past.
You can access that information on our website: www.americancasinoguidebook.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html
Fire poker has free games with multipliers!! That one is the most like a slot!
Another sign where slot machines are getting tighter is that the bounce back mailers need to be $200-$300 or higher for players to feel enticed to come back. There was a time that $25 or $50 free slot play was more than enough. The difference in house edge does not compensate for it.
Not tighter, but much faster. Money just goes quick in these video machines
I've played the exact same games, at the exact same denoms, betting the exact same amounts for years, and machines have noticeably been paying less and less every year. Especially video poker and keno
I've met an individual before the claims he develops and sell software to casinos to adjust the tightness of the machines. He claims that not only does it do that but it keeps two sets of books in the records. One for the actual receipts and one of the gaming commission sees. I have another friend who's done working in person's house that says he also designs the same kind of software. No I'm not saying that they're both lying but I have noticed that machines have gotten tighter over the years. And I cycled about 150,000 through machines last year.
I went to Vegas , I was excited , total disappointment , The machines pay a much higher return in Australia ,4 days playing in Vegas ,won nothing ,that never happens in Australia 😊
dont see the link
1 year of cold slots..
Freeplay used to make
Hungry machines.
Josh, which job is better, working for Steve and Matt or working for Brian. Which pays more, which has better work benefits.
Josh doesn't work for us. He is kind enough to join us for periodic discussions about interesting slot machine topics.
@@americancasinoguidebook I thought he worked for you both before, in 2020 or 2021. Then he went to work for Brian.
Josh used to work with a few partners on the KnowYourSlots website he created. Where you've might have been confused was that Josh was the moderator during the Monday livestreams for The Jackpot Gents. He probably has more reliable income with Brian Christopher than working independently.
I can attest to this i got lucky hit my first big jackpot ten grand last Nov and went back in January and lost one grand trying to get rich 😁🤑
Yes they are 🤔
Absolutely getting tighter…haven’t won in a loooonnnnggggg time from my local casino. Lucky to even get a bonus!!!
The must hit by 500$ machine is a scam
I disagree, it’s a scam if you’re chasing with not enough bankroll for the chase.
If it’s at $495, it will hit before losing $500
I've played them when they were at $499. 89 before they hit. But the lady beside me hit one that started at $250 and got it at $255. I was envious.
There's a difference between Ainsworth machines must hit by and others. Ainsworth machines go up in cents proportionally with the bet. One could actually calculate how many bets it would take to get there - to 500 in case it wouldn'tpay before.. That's not the Buffalo "must hit by 1800", o or other machines that say must hit by a certain number of bonus free games. You can sit there and go through your bankroll even if it shows you need only one more free game symbol to get the bonus. So, must hit by 500 in Ainsworth machines is not a scam.
Slots are now tight because the casinos have to make up the money lost during the pandemic and deing that vegas is the entertainment capital of the world so the slots are for entertainment only not winning and you can see this in the casino profits
NO SUCH THING AS A TIGHT OR LOOSE SLOT MACHINE!!!!!!!
I listened to the slot pro talk for about a minute and call bullshit! He is basically a lobbyist for slot manufacturers! Payout are not determined over millions of spins!! This is a myth. Although it may be how regulators can all below expected payouts. It is very simple. Slot manufacturers have developed many different algorithms for each machine. Some algorithms eliminate any chance for large payouts! Some Algorithms ensure a player loses in the first 100 spins! Some Algorithms give a player a number of small wins up front, then payout nothing until money is gone. The list goes on and on. Each Algorithm is a person who wrote a mathematical player experience. It is NOT random! The casino computer controls all of the machines to switch into different Algorithms depending on the profit/loss objectives. None of the casino employees, slot techs, or surveillance have any control. Nobody is flipping switches! Players do not have an equal chance of winning at anytime of day or night. This also is a myth. The best chance to win is after many players have lost a lot of money obviously.
It is all a magic trick and it cracks me up nobody has cracked the code as I have described it.
I agree, I play a game where the biggest hit is 5 hands, the game is called TAWA. I have played that game at a local bar near me and put a million spins on it over the last 5 years, and I have never hit the 5 hands, which is the biggest jackpot. I hit the 4 hands all the time, but they only pay $20 to $100, at the most.
My biggest 4 hands win was $100, my lowest was about $20. And I have never hit the 5 hands, ever, not one time. So I am 100% sure the game is rigged to never hit the 5 hands. I have hit the 4 hands 3 or 4 times in a month, and in 5 years of playing that same machine, never hit 5 hands one time.
I also play a game where you can get a full screen of 7's, and it has never hit that either, in a million spins, not one full screen of 7's. It will give you 8 or 9 of the 7's, but never all 15 of them, so I am almost positive the machine is rigged to never hit a full screen of 7's.
I started to watch this video.. then I saw that dude's pronouns on the screen... 👎
So glad i know his pronouns 😆
you lost me with the pronoun nonsense.
Who cares? I’m interested in what he has to say!
@@slowmads Good for you.
@@slowmads ikr. I'm more interested to see what he says because he is knowledgeable.
That’s some much bs fake slot content online. Lady Luck I win every time 🤮🤮
I can't stand that hag lady luck.
No, they are just doing how they were programed. Pay off great at the begining of their life, then not the farther they get to the end of their life, so that they meet the required percentage they have to have. Just watch RUclipsrs playing the same machines for the last few years. They did great on the machines at first, now loosing big time. It's logic plus a little info from retired programers.