Seriously, I swear, people watched the part where he defends chi chi and just clicked off there. Half of these people are bringing up shit he debunked. I get it, you really like this character, but you don’t have to whitewash her fuckups and make up shit that didn’t happen.
@@czms922 Yeah, never bite the hands that feed you (Literally in my case), so I'm just happy people are talking about the video even if I wish they stuck around for the whole thing before doing so🤣
That's his fault tbh. He chose to steelman a position he doesn't hold for almost half the video before he finally said he doesn't much agree with that position. Not to mention the title + the start of the video implies all the people who hate Chichi for this scene are misunderstanding it, when actually he thinks it's the people who defend the scene that are misunderstanding it.
@iamnotinvolved1309 Nah. Its absolutely on the viewer to actually have the attention span to finish watching the video instead of clicking off instantly because theyve felt gratified by supposedly having their opinion validated. Its not like the title lied to anyone either, it just says the scene is misunderstood, and he subverts the expectation that its only misunderstood by the haters when the defenders dont understand it either. Theres no "actually the defenders are wrong and the haters are right" either, both sides are equally twisting the scene into having more meaning than it really does. If people cant stand to finish the entire other half of a 14 minute video to get that then the only fault is on them imo.
yeah I think people forget Toriyama was a gag manga creator before dragonball and even then most of dragonball was very gag inspired in the earlier arks so him throwing in something just because it seems crazy and funny sounds like something he would do.
yeah. i mean, toriyama was originally a gag mangaka, and he's stated in interviews that he always drew with what entertained little boys in mind. it makes sense that he'd portray chi chi as a comedically exaggerated caricature of an overbearing mother, since little kids would relate to gohan.
People forget that Gohan is literally 4 or 5 years old around this time. 4/5 year olds being in life or death battles is crazy. Even Goku at the start of Dragon ball was like 10 or 12.
My take has always been that Chi Chi is supposed to be a satire on Japanese society where it's common for parents to pressure their children to excel in academics and to prioritize the respectability of their household above everything else. Chi Chi's dream is to be a traditional housewife and mother just as Goku's dream is to be great martial artist. However, she's in anything but a traditional family. Toriyama plays it mostly for laughs, but Chi Chi's behavior definitely seems like a deep denial/coping response to all the chaos invading her domestic bliss. She desperately clings to the few things she feels she actually has control of in her life, namely her household and her children. She's ambivalent about anything outside that bubble because her dream relies on order and the Dragon Ball world is often chaotic. She realizes there's no making Goku truly settle down, so she doesn't really try outside of the occasional scolding and as a result she's become kind of calloused to his safety because she would be a broken wreck if she always fretted about his well-being given the dangerous situations he's constantly seeking out. But she still sees hope of Gohan being a normal, "respectable" son and so she dotes over him and pushes him towards academics over fighting.
I agree that this is an accurate assessment of how she is written in z. I also think it's a complete failure of character writing given the near 180 her personality took after her marriage. This is also a factor in the overall writing of female characters in shounen, as many modern mangaka were inspired by dragonball.
I agree that she's obviously a play on the irrational side of Japanese parents of the time. You can see it in the thing she says and does, like when she says she doesn't like ssj because it "makes them look like delinquents," it's a play on Japanese parents fears of their kids dying their hair blond and becoming delinquents. She's obviously been turned into more of a satire character. Toriyama really didn't like writing nor drawing the character.
To add to this, Chi Chi is as much of a backwoods hick as Goku is. She never grew up around other people, but instead had a rich and sheltered upbringing. She feels like she has to be a proper lady with a perfect family based on what little she knows about society, to the point of forcing those beliefs on others who may not want that lifestyle. It's a commentary on the Japanese economic bubble where adults who grew up in poverty now have lots of money and want to live vicariously through their children.
The way I always saw it was that Chi-Chi was more or less a gag character, being a nagging wife even when the circumstances are ridiculously out of the ordinary, and you either found that funny or you didn't.
@@jeffsmith3747 goku gets injured like this all the time, it really shouldn't be a concern to anyone, especially since he just greets everyone super casually in this scene.
Ya can't completely blame Chi-Chi. Just a woman whose goals are normal yet deemed seemingly insignificant in a world that focuses more on the bigger picture than the lives of the people living within it
YEAH she's literally just a person with a life and priorities!!!! her children are everything to her because, when she and her father lost their entire kingdom, they had nothing left BUT each other. she had nothing but her father and her dream of building a life and family with goku. all these manbabies with unresolved, undue grudges against their mothers fail to realize that it is extremely COMMON for your relationship with your partner to change after you become parents. your kid becomes your world and you might feel rage toward anyone who might cause them harm or make them sad, ESPECIALLY if that person is the one other person who's supposed to be as dedicated to the kid as you are. chichi DOES love goku, but in this moment (among several others) she sees him among the many threats to the safety of her 5 y/o child who has been missing for a YEAR and she treats him accordingly - not just out of love for her son, but out of a sense of betrayal that the man she loves isn't as concerned about their child's safety as she feels - because he KNOWS what she's been through. her hurt is entirely understandable in the context of her character. she literally doesn't care if the world burns down around her, so long as she has her children by her side, because that's what her father did for her.
I think Toriyama himself didn't put much thought as Chichi as a character. He himself says that he doesn't have that much idea on how to write romance. But halfway through Android saga, I think he and Toe understood. We saw how she was worried about Goku when he got the heart virus and their interaction when he recovered. Also her reasoning for Gohan to not participate in cell games also make more sense, Earth already had 3 Super Saiyans for it to protect but still them relying on Gohan shows how incompatible they all are. That's why after Buu arc, we don't see Goten and Trunks being overly relied on protecting earth as Gohan was. Even Gohan himself doesn't that much expect for few arcs in Super.
I think a naked unconscious child covered in bruises is far more in need of attention than a conscious adult. Yes Goku was in bad shape but he chooses to go through these things on his own accord, meanwhile Gohan who’s still a kid is dragged into a fight with savage warriors. Chichi is fully justified in getting Gohan first
The only thing I didn't like was how she had the audacity to blame Goku for Gohan's injuries when Piccolo was the one who kidnapped him and forced him to fight the Saiyans in the first place, then you remembered Goku was just revived after an entire year and Goku told his son to leave the battlefield with Krillin so he could fight Vegeta alone. Gohan chose to fight after Goku told him several times to leave.
@@highlandave8507Yeah her prioritizing Gohan never bothered me and I probably would have been mad, but her blaming Goku for Gohan's condition was inexcusable, especially she knew he was dead for a year
@@LiveLXStudiosWhere's the funny, though? I find it hilarious personally but nowehere is that an obvious comedy section. We literally won't be having these arguements years later if it's actually written AND drawn like actual comedy panels. Toriyama was great but still does a lot of mistakes, in the end
@@stromtgm3505I would argue in the original panel that the comedy comes from Goku’s expression as Chi-Chi jumps over him, which seems like surprise. It’s a denial of expectations for him which could be seen as comedic.
@@stromtgm3505we’re having these conversations years down because dragon ball fans don’t know anything about their own show, not because it isn’t funny. Majority of the people complaining are the same people who still think kid buu is stronger than buuhan
I think people understood her pretty well. There's not that much to misunderstand in the first place. The guy in the video already said that. She's a stereotypical, almost a satirical, grumpy housewife character, and that's pretty much it.
Honestly, I chalk it down to Toriyama just not knowing how to write a character in her position and defaulting to "overbearing housewife and tiger mom".
The dragonball fandom, especially the older ones, are switching up their understanding of chichi due to their personal growth in life. I definitely believe that this shift is because many fans have become parents themselves. In my eyes, chichi's character could've been more than "stereotypical tiger mum." I just finished watching dragonball recently, and idk why tori decided that this was the best direction when she has a lot of unexplored background. You would think being goku's wife would make him have more interesting interactions. But no, let's have another chichi screaming session. No wonder fans are giving her more traits in fan mangas because the original didn't bother. Also, in her defence, before the Z portion, she didn't know everyone as well as goku. In DB, we meet her near the beginning and the end. While the gang has been hanging out nearly regularly, she hasn't seen these people for 7 years. Then she flies off with goku, so add another 5 years. Other than goku, gohan, and ox king, she won't really feel as hurt over the deaths of the others. Plus, the fact that the Z gang didn't tell her the truth about goku and gohan HER husband and son would've understandably put them in the bad books anyway.
Toriyama was not a perfect man, his stories were wrote with certain things in mind and a specific focus. It's obvious a story like this will have flaws, it was not intended to be a perfect story. That being said, he was still a great write who made great things with only his pen and mind.
I agree she was written as a stubborn, irrational naggy wife and mother, but I also think it's pretty normal for her to prioritize her kindergartner son turned soldier over her husband. Is it fair? No, but it's also not fair to launch an elderly man to the stratosphere for being a pervert and that's a very mainstream anime visual gag. Anime doesn't owe us a realistic portrayal of human behavior with nuanced views on morality.
So anime can give us an irrational overly dramatic and baggy wife that doesn’t care about her husband who died the year prior while protecting her son that she cares for so much
@@jeffsmith3747 I don't usually say this, but in the case of Dragon Ball... It's not that deep, it's all for the gags. Chi-Chi nags about Goku not having a job, 5 minutes after he saved the Universe.
@ yeah I’m saying that this moment was NOT a gag, gokus body was mangled up, gohan was near death, krillin was nearly beaten, 4 of there long time friends were dead PERMANENTLY then chichi arrives acting stupid and blaming goku for something he had nothing to do with, how was this a gag? I genuinely need you to explain this
Yup, Chi Chi isn't some misunderstood character just as Goku isn't a terrible person or a terrible father. How can you call someone a bad father when the reason they're dead is because they died saving their son....... TWICE!
A lot of Dragon Ball characters are characters despite their world. Chichi is an overbearing mother, despite living in a world where her son can shrug off atomic bombs. The fact that the fandom understand this, but Chichi doesn't is what is frustrating. Gohan is a scholar, despite living in a world where he was and can still be the deciding factor in the fate of the universe. The fact that Gohan should have learned this lesson when he was fighting Cell is what is frustrating. Goku is a selfish fighter, despite living in a world that requires him to be the hero. The fact that Goku is more than happy to be BOTH a hero and a selfish fighter is what makes him work. He'll go for the good fight FIRST, but be the FIRST to suggest the win button(fusion, beerus, zeno) when things get out if hand.
It is the fandom that doesn’t understand, not Chichi. Gohan hates fighting, and the only time he ever needs to fight is to carry the consequences of the mistakes made by Goku and Vegeta. Chichi understands his necessity to fight, but she also doesn’t want her child to go off into deathmatches instead of living a normal life. Literally any worthwhile mother would do the same.
I mean, Piccolo and Goku and co. don't pit Gohan against atomic bombs, they pit him against the raditzes and vegetas space aliens and cells, stuff that Gohan definitely can't shrug off as demonstrated by years of him being irrelevant till the series of screwups that led to him defeating Cell, and nothing else, ever lmao
I think that if they had trained Gohan like Master Roshi, Chi-Chi would have been more permissive. I always saw her as a tough mother who wanted Gohan to have every opportunity. If Gohan's training consisted of training well, studying properly, resting well and having fun, she would have let him. Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have a problem with her children knowing how to fight and defend themselves, she just doesn't want them to throw themselves headfirst into fights to the death like Goku does.
We also need to take in consideration the cultural aspect of it: Asian culture, and more closely China/Japan. You can see throughout DragonBall how women are pictured to be extremely irrational. Plus, Chichi is clearly depicted as the typical traditional Chinese women who wants her kids to succeed socially aka through studies. Or at least she's based on how Japanese men at that time used to see them. Also, she's written for comical purposes since that's what Toriyama liked to do 1st. So of course there are some exaggerations, though it's deliberate. Western people saw that differently mainly because of the cultural contrast. But trust me, all minority people who watched the show could relate so much that they laughed a lot seeing Chichi since she acts accurately as most mothers in our community do. It's comical. And it's also true 😂
I feel for Chi-Chi. She needs to go to one of the other universes that didn't have to participate in the Tournament of Power- universes that don't govern their entire existence on a punching contest.
Except that's none of them.... The top had all universes available participating... The only ones that can't were literally destroyed by lord zeno for being problematic...
It was understandable for Chi Chi to worry more about Gohan than Goku. But jumping over Goku's injured body and then blaming him when it was Piccolo who got Gohan involved in this. Then, having Yajirobe of all people hate how she showed no care towards Goku. I'm not even sure if this was a misunderstood scene, Toriyama intentionally tried to make her the jerk, especially when Gohan later tells her to shut up.
I'm totally ok with Chichi going first for Gohan but the thing that bothers me is that even Krillin and Yashirobi told her she should check on her husband and she refuses
you know as a fan who doesnt really engage with fandoms (Ima starwars fan and they scared me outa takin up ranks with them so i just reject fandom in general) I never knew people didnt like chichi. cause I liked chichi. shesa great wife for goku and agreat mom for gohan- the only person who listens to gohan when he says hes not interested. his biggest advocate./ my moms was alot like that but i suppose if you dont have a loud angry german mom youd see it as far to radical. Out of the main party i never really found any of the heroes annoying. and if anyones morals should be critizised its vegitas no question dude was the hardest to get on the right track.
I believe Chi-Chi's rationality is "If Goku wants to get himself killed, I can't stop him but I sure as hell will do everything in my power to stop Gohan from doing the same." Which is understandable. Her biggest flaw is definitely her stubbornness and unwillingness to listen which I get is meant to be satirical, but its kind of a bummer that we never really get to see her be anything more than nagging mom and wife.
Leaping over Goku for their child is a perfect act of love and understanding. She shows that she loves her husband by prioritizing their children and also that she understands that Goku was probably the one who made the situation worse with his obsession with fighting. I would be mortified if my wife cared for me over my children. That would be an evil woman.
Even if Goku wasn't the one who was at fault, it wouldn't have been an unreasonable assumption given past and future events. Goku routinely abandons ChiChi to train or whatever but if ChiChi doesn't come running to him she's evil? I think people just give Goku the benefit of the doubt because we see the story through his eyes. She knows Goku literally thrives in finding powerful enemies and getting nearly killed and would probably be in the same situation of his own volition even if there wasn't a need for it. That's just what he does.
@@CCRUEnthusist To be fair, Chi Chi practically begged Goku to marry her. It's not like Goku pretended to be some smooth Casanova to get Chi Chi to marry him only to become an uncaring, absent husband afterwards. She knew Goku loved martial arts and never had the desire to settle down. That said, Goku did settle down just for Chi Chi and gave her the family she wanted. Before Raditz arrived, Goku spent five years in peace with Chi Chi and Gohan. Piccolo was out there, but Goku never sought him out for a fight. Their lives were so non-eventful that Goku mentions at the beginning of the Saiyan arc that Gohan had never even seen the moon because their family all went to bed so early at night. Goku is hardly an ideal family man, but he's not always abandoning his family to seek fights like many people perceive.
@@CCRUEnthusist I don't see where was goku at fault here and this fight goku really didn't do something to say he love fight to much He told gohan to go told vegeta nappa to go they didn't then had to fight you take a lot of things here out of context The only thing here that us his fault is him being alien something he didn't even know and it's literally isn't different from saying it's his fault for getting born as alien and it's kinda messed up in a way
@@philw3039 I think a lot of that comes from how he's written in Super. As far as I can tell, Super seemed to prioritize cool fights and new ultimate forms over an actually interesting story to be engaged with.
BRO SHES A MOM. And besides, Goku is always getting into scraps, Chi Chi has been married to him for too many years for her to worry he gets hurt during a fight. GOHAN IS LITERALLY 3 TO 5 YEARS OLD.
Ive always seen Chi chi as a rememant of Toriyama's gag characters, in Z especially where the Z fighters are too busy fighting serious life or death battles the best characters to play off as comic relief where Chichi and other side characters like Ox King and Mr Satan, characters you involve in the story for an exaggerated reaction to alleviate the tension, especially since Toriyama loved his gags and jokes. But at the same time i remember that Chi chi saw goku crush his skull in Piccolo's ribs at mac 3 speed while having a gaping hole in his chest and then walk it off in the most airheaded way possible, and I can see why people say that she knew Goku can take care of himself. I think it's a combination of a good interpretation that doesn't get to live long because, at the end of the day, Chichi's role is that of the gag tiger mom.
People on twitter aren't real Dragon Ball fans. Chichi has always been a satirical portrayal of an Asian tiger mom who prioritizes their child's life and education over anything else. It's shown numerous times, the scene at the end of the Saiyan Arc a prime example of that where she literally doesn't care about the fate of the world or anything else other than Gohan's studies. Honestly, it's her biggest flaw, tourists and new fans act like she's flawless for her act, but her completely ignoring Goku is just too stupid to ignore.
Chi chi is one of the best characters in dball IMO. she has that skyler white syndrome where people dont get her character and as a result, dump on her. IMO, every action chichi takes is very logical! she loves her son and doesnt want him in danger, its super duper normal of a reaction. its also a comedy manga secondly to battle, and most dont get that its just funny to overplay certain things
@@andrearovenski But it ISNT Goku's fault??? It is flat out illogical. She didn't ignore goku because "Gohan is her baby". She ignored Goku because she blamed him.
I understand people don't want to hate on Chi-chi because she's just a mom who cares, but to try and play devils advocate, I think the reason people hate her is because they think about the context in her line of thinking in the context of this universe. Without Goku training, the world would be destroyed. Even when he tried to remain dead after the Cell Saga, thinking it was his fault that enemies were coming, enemies still kept coming. We literally have Future Trunks come back from the future to tell everyone that everyone is dead including Gohan because everyone wasn't strong enough for the Androids. Then in Super they just make her even worse. At least in DBZ it's understandable why she wouldn't want Gohan in the mix of things as a LITERAL CHILD, but as an adult who did exactly what she wanted of being a scholar, she still treats him and eventually Pan like she still owns them. When Chi-chi argues with Hercule and Gohan about wanting Pan to be a successful career woman with a corner office, I cringed so hard. She's not her mom and eventually Bulma and Videl talk to her with some sense that Pan is going to decide what SHE wants to do with HER life. And then in Dragon ball Super Hero, that movie is literally proof that everyone, including Gohan needs to keep training, especially the next generation because Goku and Vegeta won't always be there when it's convenient or won't be there at all in the case of the Androids. Gohan, Goten, Trunks and eventually Pan all need to keep training to protect the future of Earth. Because without an earth, there would be no place to study in. The closest real life equivalent I can think of is when your kid signs up for the military. OF COURSE you don't want your kid to join the military, why can't it be someone else's kid? "I am not the Earth's mother!" As Chi-chi would say. But her saying that line is so backwards. There needs to be people to fight for the country otherwise we lose our rights and our freedoms. At least in our world, millions of people are in the military. But in the context of DBZ, if they don't train and fight to protect the Earth, who else will? Nobody else will because they're the only ones with that kind of strength. It doesn't help that in Sparking Zero whenever a Saiyan character transforms, she calls them a delinquent. We get it! People in Japan who dye their hair blonde are seen as delinquents! It doesn't need to be her whole character. I just feel bad for Chi-chi. She's just written so poorly, angrily and one note. People say it's for the sake of comedy, but she's genuinely not funny. As someone who has trauma from a parent who constantly yelled and was disciplined for not having good grades, it's not funny and will never be funny to push your own ambitions on your kid. I completely agree with your video. Chi-chi is a victim of poor comedic writing. I understand why people try to sympathize with her and understand her character, but almost all these scenes she's in and even in video games just show her to be an incredibly one note, close minded character. And it really sucks that she's the exception. No other dragon ball female character gets this amount of hate and it sucks.
I'd be more worried about Gohan, too? Like she's seen Goku get his butt kicked before, but this is the first time she's seen Gohan in a state like this, and he's her little boy! It was an exaggerated scene, but the root of her reaction makes sense to me because I've seen plenty of women who'd be more worried about their young child than their husband.
Finally someone who takes the time to analyze the character instead of just taking one side in this argument, I really like Chi Chi and at that moment when she arrives on the battlefield it's normal for her to prioritize Gohan, but it's at the moment that she Blame Goku for everything that happened that made me furious. He died and stayed like that for a year, he came back to save the earth including their son so that after everything his wife still treated him like shit.
Wait. I've been consuming Dragon Ball content since the mid-90's, I have *never* heard this referenced by even the most hardcore dorks. She jumped over Goku to go to Gohan... yeah duh? Do some of y'all just have no experience with women or family or kids or just... anything? Hating Chi Chi is the weeb equivalent of hating Skylar from Breaking Bad. You tell on yourself and your utter lack of experience with basically anything when you shit talk those characters.
@PharaohM So jumping over my lover who is made for taking this damage and can be helped anyways to help our son who is fucking 4 years old and has some bone broken is a horrible reason?
Yeah when it comes to Chi-chi for me I don't hate her it's pretty natural for a mother wanting whats best for child. Now does she go to the extreme ? yes, but she's pretty much a satire on the whole Asian parents overly pressuring their kids into being successful. In my honest opinion the best versions of her was both in the buu saga where she definitely mellowed out from letting Gohan enter the tournament (granted it was for the money but still) to even training Goten how to fight and cheering for him during the tournament as well. Then the other being surprisingly GT where again she was pretty calm and chill most of the time even when Goku left with Shenron she wasn't angry or yelling she was like " well that's goku, the man i love, he'll be back when he gets hungry i'm sure of it" to me those are my favorite interpretations of her where she still have that fire tempter but can take it down a notch and understand that this is just her family and she loves them.
Over the years ive come to realize the anime mightve overdid it when it comes to Chi Chi and how she acts but damn...couldve at least said something to Goku before running over to Gohan.
Gohan's like 4 years old at the time, right? Chichi's perfectly in line for a mother whose 4 year old was kidnapped, heavily injured, and then wants to go into space
I think the anime does make things worse with these kinds of scenes being drawn out or added into spaces where they previosuly weren't, but you're absolutely correct that this is her consistent characterization. She quite literally doesn't want Gohan to train or be involved with the Cell Games just because "he'll fall behind on his studies." I'd love a video about Sakura from you! Really nice insight and your delivery is refreshing in its brisk and pointed nature.
The only thing I didn't like was how she had the audacity to blame Goku for Gohan's injuries when Piccolo was the one who kidnapped him and forced him to fight the Saiyans in the first place, then you remembered Goku was just revived after an entire year and Goku told his son to leave the battlefield with Krillin so he could fight Vegeta alone. Gohan chose to fight after Goku told him several times to leave.
Chi-Chi always use to get on my nerves whenever she called Goten and Gohan delinquent whenever they turned super saiyan, I use to believe that Chi-Chi might have thought Gohan dyed his hair yellow and she disapproved of it. I never understood why she would call super saiyan a delinquent until I found out that hair being dyed to a blond color in Japan is associated with delinquency, which Chi-Chi never explained which was the reason why I don’t like her as a character and she also prevented Goten from meeting Future Trunks until Future Trunks starts to leave for the new timeline with Future Mai
Added personal edit: Chichi was a widow. Once your husband dies and your child is alive but you can’t see him, and you cope with that alone and it’s HIS fault-fault can be a big part of bargaining and denial of her own permission to both of their fates-she was changed. Seriously, lots of people get angry with someone dies or disappears on them. But a child is her responsibility. Once Goku died, til death do we part has to be reckoned with. DBZ was kind of important in our house because our dad also died of a heart condition, like the android saga virus. Some widows close up and live just for their children. They have issues. Others don’t understand them. They stop trying to understand each other. Because when you can’t be a wife anymore all you have is mother. Even if that means everyone who tries to influence or take away your kids from you even for a greater good is the enemy.
I don’t think most fans understand DB. Almost feels like people’s ability to think critically about something is gone and it’s replaced with surface level understanding. Just talked with my girl how being a regular person in an anime world would fucking suck balls for multiple reasons. Can’t even blame Chi Chi for wanting a normal life, shoot Gohans dreams was the become a scholar at age 4. Of course that was from Chi Chi but someone gotta have a normal life. Gohan is like a perfect balance of Goku and Chi Chi. Loves to fight for fun, but doesn’t want to kill, works hard and wants to support his family. Don’t we all want some form of that in life? Just peace?
What you’re saying has nothing to do with the situation, she’s acting like a complete bjtch to her mangled up husband is it really that crazy for her to show care for both her husband and child?
Chi-Chi certainly has an attitude problem. Perfect example is when Videl first arrives at Goku's house and instead of simply asking Videl, "Yes, can I help you?" Chi-Chi rudely automatically assumes Videl came to sell something. Also, why does she want Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive when she was driving in an earlier episode while she and her father The Ox King were on their way to Master Roshi's Island?
Thank you! My problem with that scene was never that she went to gohan first, that makes total sense. It was how she was intentionally ignoring goku and blaming all of this on him when it’s not at all his fault in the slightest and he did everything in his power to prevent what happened. Always just left a bad taste in my mouth. Thankfully she calmed down a lot later on and especially in super. She seemed more like she actually did care and wasn’t just trying to push what she wanted onto her family. Besides trying to force goku to get a job, I never understood that.
Yeah I can see how people can defend Chi Chi for that scene because honestly as a parent who had to live with the knowledge my child was kidnapped for a year by my spouse’s arch-enemy, I’d be more concerned for him like you said. But also as you mentioned there’s so many moments of her that just paint her as unlikable by Toriyama, we can’t defend her for everything. Like you brought up, she did not care at all about Goku being alive again but in critical condition and blamed him for everything in that saga when it came to him being beat up and Gohan’s situation despite Goku doing everything right in that arc. Like we could all agree the Saiyan Saga is probably the saga that displays Goku being a good parent the best without any mistakes (when he’s alive that is) but he is still called out by her for things that aren’t his fault. I don’t hate Chi-Chi but I always hate that moment in the saga on the plane where she blames him and the lack of concern she continues to have for him. Realistically, the two would probably get divorced if they were real and Goku understood what that meant. Because of problems on both sides, mind you. Their marriage can go from loving to nearly toxic at times 😅
Chichi is kinda like our own parents. You just couldn't understand them as a child, and once you get older, all the hardships they put you through have ultimately made you a better person, and you learn to appreciate who they were.
I think the point of her behavior in the scene is her putting on a tough exterior to save face, because she's still a literal Princess. I think folks sleep on the fact that she really is a princess To me, she was putting on airs that her husband is fine, and has total confidence that he's going to recover. If she acts too upset and goes fawning over Goku, then she would be saying that she believes that Goku is weak and vulnerable. That's extremely unbecoming of royalty. To a lesser degree, she feels the same way towards the others, too. BUT, if she directs all her upset and fear in a performative manner to her son, the one acceptable subject of her attention, then its all good according to her sensibilities. But... even if we want to go into a gritty, serious perspective, and her performative acts of saving face aside, her general focus on the kids is the correct decision. Chi-Chi is the single most instrumental figure in ensuring that the most powerful hybrid Saiyan offspring in the universe remain on the right path. Especially earlier in the time of writing, Gohan was pripritized as Goku's successor- with the capacity to overtake his father in power. This boy HAD to remain pure of intention at all cost, and that meant having a guiding influence who recognized how his head worked and gave him direction in achieving a peaceful outcome. Maybe Gohan would have been okay without the Scholar path, sure. He did okay with Piccolo's training. But what about Goten? Would Trunks have his even keel without his friendly peer and pseudo aunt? People act like its a given that Goku's kids are so good natured, but given the Saiyan propensity to fight, the danger of the world, and Goku's emotional unavailability, I don't think that's actually the case. Chi-Chi is seemingly a strict mother and all, but she gave a LOT of space to her kids throughout the series and she raised great kids, mostly on her own. Kids who had the capacity to level cities at any moment. That's actually kind of a fuckin nightmare, you know?
Was this trip really necessary? Chi-Chi is a mom. Chi-Chi is _Gohan's_ mom. Moms are tremendously protective of their kids. (The good ones, anyway.) 'Nuff said, I feel. But, if it must be said, she knows Goku can take care of himself. She doesn't know that her son, *who has been missing for a year by this point,* can do the same. So. (I'm sure all this was said in the video, but I didn't watch the video for more than a minute.)
Not to mention Gohan's personality was that of a timid little boy who easily afraid of most things. He was the complete opposite of young Goku. So of course she'll be worried for her son when he showed no evidence of being to take care of himself.
@@DjPrimeVideosikr the problem is not because she knew Goku would be fine but she doesn't even shows any concerns to others especially Goku even for a minute like she pretend everyone else doesn't existed. It's like you having car accidents your wife comes and only pickup rescue your kid then left you like "He's my husband he will be alright"...
Whenever this topic gets brought up (primarily by defenders of this event) one thing is always the same. They misunderstand what the problem is. It is not that Chichi is prioritizing Gohan over Goku. They argue that Chichi isn’t worried because she’s seen him like this before. That she cares but Gohan is a priority. When they say this they have already misunderstood why people dislike her in this scene. It also shows that a majority of these people haven’t actually re-read this scene to its completion. Because in the very next scene we see Chichi directly blaming Goku for getting Gohan hurt and showing that she does not care for his well being in this moment because of that. This makes her look bad because she doesn’t know the exact circumstances behind him being this hurt. Her only ground to stand on with being mad at Goku would be if she knew Goku asked Gohan to stall Vegeta. She does not have this information (keep in mind the scene of her seeing the fight in Baba’s crystal ball is anime-only). If she isn’t mad at him for that then all the other reasons are either unreasonable or outright horrific considering how out of the loop she is. The worse possibility is that she blames Goku for dying because that leads to Gohan training with Piccolo which leads to Gohan fighting the Saiyans. All the other options don’t make her look any better. It’s either bad faith (automatically thinking Goku is responsible) or blaming him for protecting their son. You’d think she would have some sort of care for Goku since she would know that Goku died protecting their son. (Also he’s her loving husband) Meaning if he dies while wounded on the ground here, he’s gone for good. l Get it’s for a gag but if that gag hurts her characterization (making her a bad wife) then it doesn’t matter, it hurts her character.
I mean she's a stressed out hothead that doesn't really know what she's doing, I'd say she did pretty well all things considered. The fact Goku was dead for 7 years and she didn't even seem to flinch about resuming their marriage says something at least.
bruh it kills me that the key points of this video are "chichi is a mother whose child is her top priority," "chichi is not omniscient," and "chichi is a person with flaws"
I think it’s the fact that she never changes, and only does when Goku dies but then goes back to normal when he comes back alive. If it weren’t for piccolo training Gohan the world would be gone 15 times over😭😭😭
Totally agree. Regardless of if it’s reasonable or not (which a lot of the time it isn’t), ChiChi is left as a one dimensional character and essentially an endlessly reused joke and it’s a shame. I’d have really enjoyed a DBZ where she wasn’t just relegated to a irrational tiger mom Though it’s Dragon Ball. Leaving side characters by the wayside with nothing to do is in the franchise’s DNA
One thing that bothers me about Chi-Chi's character that I rarely see mentioned is her disrespect for her father, who is clearly supporting her family financially, at least before Super. She tries to control the way Gohan is raising Pan, but when Ox-King tries to insert himself in her parenting she beats him up. The way she demands respect from her adult sons (including Goten in GT when she slaps him) while having none for her father is a bit hypocritcal.
Who needs context to understand that ANY mother would be worried sick that her 5 years old child was beaten to death. Of course ANY mother (including animals) would prioritize the safety of her offspring to that of her husband. Again, Gohan was just 5 years old when the sayians arrived. I don't think people understand how young Gohan is through out Dragon Ball Z. Goku was 14 when we were introduced to him, Gohan is 5 and was forced into fighting planet busting threats. He was barely 18 by the Buu Saga...
I will be honest, I never hated really hated her but I can understand as to why most love her and most hate her. Some of the moments she shares with Goku in Dragon Ball/Z/Super is really sweet but there are moments where she gets rather irritating. Like how in Super, she barricaded herself in a room with Pan, Videl, and later Bulma and tries to control Pan’s life by coaxing Videl into parenting her way. You’re just the grandmother, she’s not your child and you don’t control her and decide what’s best. That’s up to Gohan and Videl. And she along with Bulma criticize their husbands with Chichi even saying “they don’t know how much trouble we go through.” . . . Your husbands saved the world multiple times and even sacrificed them selves and yet they’re judging them for not getting a job. While I mostly blame the writing for Chichi’s character (and multiple others), I just think a human marrying an extraterrestrial is just the start for issues. This just seems to bolster when you take into account that their relationship was solely on a promise that Goku inadvertently made when they were kids, especially when Goku thought marriage was a type of food. People have done this human and extraterrestrial couple multiple times and the only one that I can think of that was decent is Debbie and Nolan from Invincible (before knowing Nolan’s true identity). Both just seemed to have a better understanding for each other. I don’t know if Toriyama was involved in some or all of writing Chichi’s character in Z and Super, and I didn’t say this to be disrespectful to him. I’m just giving my two cents on her character.
Being a parent is a sacrifice if you decide to have a kid that is your responsibility to take care of them so actully this is reasonable and gohan was hurt badly to if you dont know that you shouldn't have kids you re self
@ I’m aware lmao. I understand that chichi could’ve been written better but I do think it’s funny that almost the entire fan base is upset with her over something Goku clearly doesn’t care about
as a parent, id love the man who gave me a kid assuming there was no had blood. and chi chi absolutely has to love the fuck out of goku. the shit she does for him without complaint, all the food and dishes she does, like legit, imagine having to cook that much for one dude alone EVERY time he eats EVERY day. that being said, despite the fact that id love my man or woman, and chi chi defo fuckin loves goku, i too would focus on my baby boy. like people who say goku was more injured, FUCK that, Goku is conscious, gohan is not only significantly younger, weaker(without the rage boost that lasts seconds and chi chi has ever seen) but he is both knocked the fuck out, and missing a whole tail. he is missing, a literal, limb. and remember that that means realistically gohans lower half would probably be covered in blood too. a parents duty is to their child as soon as they are born. Chi Chi loves her son and last time goku and piccolo fought a much weaker radditz, her husband died. now she sees her husband is alive and her son without a limb and is face down in the dirt, NAKED and bruised from head to toe, and again gohan would realistically be covered in blood from his MISSING LIMB THATS CONNECTED TO HIS SPINE! if i was chi chi, id be struggling not to hit someone for letting this happen to my baby boy. and yeah its not their fault, but shes a mom in panic. no one would be thinking about that. z chi chi is an amazing wife and an even more amazing mom. super chi chi sucks sure, but z chi chi is fucking amazing and i hope everyone finds a man or woman as dedicated as her. BULMA is an unfaithful girlfriend with how she did yamcha, or how she legit teases vegeta about whis spending time with her, and thinks its funny that vegeta tells yako(the patrolman, ill admit i dunno how its spelled) that he "better not try anything" with his wife. but yet all people do is just joke about how she cheated on yamcha for a second and move on, no one actually calls her a bad character. chi-chi, fuckin, rocks. and yeah, from her perspective, i can see why shed be upset at everyone including goku. she doesnt know goku tried to get gohan out of there at all. shes in a panic rage. id be fucked up for days
I can’t imagine anyone who genuinely loves their family, APPRECIATE* HAVING* TO HAVE THEM, RISK THEIR LIVES ALL THE TIME. And I agree, a lot of it had to do with Goku in many occasions, simply out of his saiyan pride to “BE STRONGER”. So yes, I can understand her resentment at risking not only him, but Gohan (maybe not in this arc, but he certainly didn’t hold back when Cell came around… as a mother, I can understand her frustration in the whole situation. Doesn’t mean I’d like it any more than she did =|
In other words she is a typical japanese wife/mother Toriyama is literally making fun of all japanese women's behaviour post marriage such a typical Toriyama move
Glad you used the word comedic because that's always what Chichi's been, a caricature by a mangaka who was a comedian at heart hahah people just take her way too seriously because of what DB became.
Chichi was not a comedic character at this point, this was a very serious moment where everyone had died permanently, the excuses you people make for chichi is crazy
@@jeffsmith3747 I don't particularly like Chichi and this has nothing to do with making excuses, Goku's reaction (specially in the anime version) and her intensity are telltale signs it's a moment of levity about Goku reacting in shock to his crazy nagging wife after dealing with all that lmao.
Ive never understood when people take character analysis to real life moral extremes like this because people will say they dislike chi chi because she’s a bad wife or mother, and morally thats not very good. But half of the Z fighters have either beaten the shit out of or literally killed/tried to kill Goku. Chi Chi jumping over goku is a gag, you can see goku visibly confused as she comically leaps over him. If we all thought about the characters rationally then no one should like vegeta because hes killed literal millions of people
I will forever hate how Toriyama wrote Chi Chi throughout Z and Super. She wasnt a saint in DB but she wasnt as bad as she was portrayed in later series. But since Z and Super are mainstream, Chi Chi will forever be known as the mean, nagging wife.
as a parent myself, i understand the tunnel vision you can get when it comes to your children and their safety. sometimes in dire moments, all that you can see is your kid, everything else in the world gets shut out so you can focus on their safety above all things. i think chi chi was well within her right. she knows goku is strong, but she didn't feel the same way about her little boy which is fair enough. he was 5 years old or so 😂 😂
To understand Chichi, you must understand woman. Women who find things worth it, want preservation and safety for it. She ran to Gohan because she knew Goku would be alright. She ran to Gohan because he's her baby and could be traumatized. Being married to Goku would be like being with a vet/athlete/peter pan/trashcan/superman.
I personally love Chichi. I think it's more common for women to understand Chichi point of view. The sayian arc, Her four year old was kidnapped, Her husband was killed, And her son who was now five was nearly killed....😅 And considering how she lived during dragonball. I understand how she wants more for Gohan and Goten. Has most likely Chichi she didn't get a proper education or Didn't wanna be a fighter. Even though incredibly strong. She seems more of a timid soul when she was younger
I’d be absolutely INSANE if I was married to Goku! She holds that man DOWN, is stuck raising kids on her own, and cooking for people who have superhuman appetites. I would 10000% jump over my husband who gets into fights for fun, to save my son who doesn’t enjoy fighting and getting hurt.
One thing about Chi Chi that often gets overlooked is that even though she turned Gohan into a total nerd, she made sure that Goten was his father's son, even though he wasn't around for much of his childhood. She could have made Goten study all the time like she did with Gohan, but instead she trained him to fight herself and let him go outside and just be a boy, like Goku would have wanted.
The way she immediately fixated on Goku and then expected him to change is almost jarring to think about. She really wanted a fairytale and, in the most delusional way imaginable, tried to force the issue for decades after already having a decade's worth of private obsession under her belt.
12:18 But then chichi had an small character development and decided to train Gohan and have him protect earth if necessary. Still he was out-righteous enough to slap majin buu, so he is kind of the same lady.
Toriyama was amazing but when it came to the women in the series not very well written. I know it was a different time but still as a fellow female I hate the misrepresentation. The women are all so badass and tomboyish until they get married. At which point,they lose almost all of their personality. Chichi and Videl both fighters, Bulma was a promiscuous teen to woman who got serious which i liked but still occasionally flirt. And the rest were a chance to just see them in their underwear or nude, hate that!
Goku is responsible for a lot of poor decisions while Chi Chi is a mother trying to manage being married to the Dumbest Strongest guy in the universe. These situations happened through the ages of 4 to 11 some of the most formulative years in a child's life. Blame Counter whether directly or indrectly Child is kidnapped by husband's estranged ALIEN brother (Indirectly Goku) THEN kidnapped by husband's mortal enemy (Directly Goku) THEN almost killed by husband's brother's Boss because his mortal enemy couldn't keep his mouth shut about wish granting magical balls (Directly Picolo) THEN goes into space and is almost killed by a Racist Galactic Dictator to revive his father's dead friends and mortal enemy because father wanted to solo fight (Directly Goku) Then is almost killed because Father showed kindness to said Racist Dictator who shows up on Earth to get revenge (Directly Goku) Then almost got son and friends killed by androids of father's mortal enemy because father didn't take heart meds (Directly Goku) Then almost killed by the android who came through time to kill his father because his father thought he might like fighting (Directly Goku) Failed to train him to control his powers which costed his father his life. (Directly Goku) Finally decides to stay dead after realizing he is the cause of most of the deaths in the series leaving wife and son alone to help raise his brother because he wants to fight dead people (Directly Goku)
I definitely am in the camp of despising her existence. Her stubborn, shortsighted outbursts always annoyed me and you basically perfectly illustrated why. Her blaming Goku for Gohan getting involved in the Saiyan Saga was a load of crap and i really wish one of the characters, perhaps Gohan himself, confronted her about it and given her a chance to grow. The most annoying part of her is definitely how wasted she feels, she could be so much more interesting but nothing was ever done for her.
When I was younger I was really annoyed by Chi Chi but as I got older I realized she has a lot to deal with. First her husband is dead than he's in space than he's dead again. There's an episode in Super where Goku leaves again and Chi Chi actually doesn't get all that mad. Partly because I think she knows that's just the type of guy he is and that Goku will always be there when his family needs him. Also whoever made the meme at 1:04. Funny but Chi Chi cooks all of Goku's meals, you're telling me that's NOT a full time job?
One thing no one considers is how broke Goku was and how that put them into financial problems. Her dad had a whole castle. She loved Goku, but she certainly DID NOT* WANT GOHAN* to repeat their story and stay poor. Such hardships they had to endure, all the sacrifice to save Earth but no one dared check in or wonder on every other moment of their lives. She knew Gohan would only have a productive future by studying. And he did. More so, it was also what he has mentioned several times over HE PREFERS*. And so he does. Yet this is often overlooked.
It's funny how so few people in the comments have actually watched the video by making points the video already addresses.
Tbh in the age of RUclips that's what boost content I'm just glad they're giving engagement to videos
Seriously, I swear, people watched the part where he defends chi chi and just clicked off there.
Half of these people are bringing up shit he debunked. I get it, you really like this character, but you don’t have to whitewash her fuckups and make up shit that didn’t happen.
@@czms922 Yeah, never bite the hands that feed you (Literally in my case), so I'm just happy people are talking about the video even if I wish they stuck around for the whole thing before doing so🤣
That's his fault tbh. He chose to steelman a position he doesn't hold for almost half the video before he finally said he doesn't much agree with that position. Not to mention the title + the start of the video implies all the people who hate Chichi for this scene are misunderstanding it, when actually he thinks it's the people who defend the scene that are misunderstanding it.
@iamnotinvolved1309 Nah. Its absolutely on the viewer to actually have the attention span to finish watching the video instead of clicking off instantly because theyve felt gratified by supposedly having their opinion validated. Its not like the title lied to anyone either, it just says the scene is misunderstood, and he subverts the expectation that its only misunderstood by the haters when the defenders dont understand it either. Theres no "actually the defenders are wrong and the haters are right" either, both sides are equally twisting the scene into having more meaning than it really does. If people cant stand to finish the entire other half of a 14 minute video to get that then the only fault is on them imo.
To be fair, if you were married to Goku, you'd probably be insane almost all the time.
Who tf would want to marry Goku except for the Saiyan genes 💀
@@glabailsanguinolent9745IDK Chi chi I guess
@@glabailsanguinolent9745The Meat
@@glabailsanguinolent9745 absurd multiverse busting power, the ability to go anywhere he wants and just a chill guy
It’s her own fault though
"Nah I just wanted to draw Chi-Chi leaping over Goku cuz it would be mad funny and things went from there"
- Toriyama probably
That sounds just like something he would do lol
Right. These characters don't have real feelings lol.
Lmao
yeah I think people forget Toriyama was a gag manga creator before dragonball and even then most of dragonball was very gag inspired in the earlier arks so him throwing in something just because it seems crazy and funny sounds like something he would do.
yeah. i mean, toriyama was originally a gag mangaka, and he's stated in interviews that he always drew with what entertained little boys in mind. it makes sense that he'd portray chi chi as a comedically exaggerated caricature of an overbearing mother, since little kids would relate to gohan.
People forget that Gohan is literally 4 or 5 years old around this time. 4/5 year olds being in life or death battles is crazy. Even Goku at the start of Dragon ball was like 10 or 12.
Fr fr
She was still wrong to blame Goku for this.
@@j04370859you cant blame her maternal insticts bro just because shes being a mother doesnt mean shes wrong
@@j04370859not like goku chose to be saiyan
You forget that Saiyan children are thrown into battle very Early.
Just look At Vegeta or Raditz in The flashback scenes.
They both grew up in battle.
My take has always been that Chi Chi is supposed to be a satire on Japanese society where it's common for parents to pressure their children to excel in academics and to prioritize the respectability of their household above everything else. Chi Chi's dream is to be a traditional housewife and mother just as Goku's dream is to be great martial artist. However, she's in anything but a traditional family. Toriyama plays it mostly for laughs, but Chi Chi's behavior definitely seems like a deep denial/coping response to all the chaos invading her domestic bliss.
She desperately clings to the few things she feels she actually has control of in her life, namely her household and her children. She's ambivalent about anything outside that bubble because her dream relies on order and the Dragon Ball world is often chaotic. She realizes there's no making Goku truly settle down, so she doesn't really try outside of the occasional scolding and as a result she's become kind of calloused to his safety because she would be a broken wreck if she always fretted about his well-being given the dangerous situations he's constantly seeking out. But she still sees hope of Gohan being a normal, "respectable" son and so she dotes over him and pushes him towards academics over fighting.
I agree that this is an accurate assessment of how she is written in z. I also think it's a complete failure of character writing given the near 180 her personality took after her marriage. This is also a factor in the overall writing of female characters in shounen, as many modern mangaka were inspired by dragonball.
I agree that she's obviously a play on the irrational side of Japanese parents of the time. You can see it in the thing she says and does, like when she says she doesn't like ssj because it "makes them look like delinquents," it's a play on Japanese parents fears of their kids dying their hair blond and becoming delinquents. She's obviously been turned into more of a satire character. Toriyama really didn't like writing nor drawing the character.
nice
All of her husband's friends are bums... also the richest woman in the world.
To add to this, Chi Chi is as much of a backwoods hick as Goku is. She never grew up around other people, but instead had a rich and sheltered upbringing. She feels like she has to be a proper lady with a perfect family based on what little she knows about society, to the point of forcing those beliefs on others who may not want that lifestyle. It's a commentary on the Japanese economic bubble where adults who grew up in poverty now have lots of money and want to live vicariously through their children.
The way I always saw it was that Chi-Chi was more or less a gag character, being a nagging wife even when the circumstances are ridiculously out of the ordinary, and you either found that funny or you didn't.
and i REALLY didn't.
@@turbobrent9435 Cool. But she's just another character.
The whole roaster is gag characters, especially before the introduction of the Sayians.
I laughed at that moment of her leaping over Goku tbh😂
To be fair, Gohan was non responsive, and goku was looking right at her. Not to mention she hadn't seen her 4 now 5 yr old in over a year
Listen to you absolute bull, goku had all his bones broken AND WAS DEAD FOR A YEAR and she treated him like garbage
@@jeffsmith3747 goku gets injured like this all the time, it really shouldn't be a concern to anyone, especially since he just greets everyone super casually in this scene.
and she witnessed goku survive the piccolo jr fight. by now she knew that that mf goku was basically invincible lol
It’s her 4 years old kid 😭 I think she’s warranted…
For sure
Ya can't completely blame Chi-Chi. Just a woman whose goals are normal yet deemed seemingly insignificant in a world that focuses more on the bigger picture than the lives of the people living within it
YEAH she's literally just a person with a life and priorities!!!! her children are everything to her because, when she and her father lost their entire kingdom, they had nothing left BUT each other. she had nothing but her father and her dream of building a life and family with goku. all these manbabies with unresolved, undue grudges against their mothers fail to realize that it is extremely COMMON for your relationship with your partner to change after you become parents. your kid becomes your world and you might feel rage toward anyone who might cause them harm or make them sad, ESPECIALLY if that person is the one other person who's supposed to be as dedicated to the kid as you are. chichi DOES love goku, but in this moment (among several others) she sees him among the many threats to the safety of her 5 y/o child who has been missing for a YEAR and she treats him accordingly - not just out of love for her son, but out of a sense of betrayal that the man she loves isn't as concerned about their child's safety as she feels - because he KNOWS what she's been through. her hurt is entirely understandable in the context of her character. she literally doesn't care if the world burns down around her, so long as she has her children by her side, because that's what her father did for her.
Chichi is on the same level as Vinsmoke Judge from One Piece.
@@asmokeusthank you so much for this comment 😭 u are so right
I think Toriyama himself didn't put much thought as Chichi as a character. He himself says that he doesn't have that much idea on how to write romance. But halfway through Android saga, I think he and Toe understood. We saw how she was worried about Goku when he got the heart virus and their interaction when he recovered. Also her reasoning for Gohan to not participate in cell games also make more sense, Earth already had 3 Super Saiyans for it to protect but still them relying on Gohan shows how incompatible they all are.
That's why after Buu arc, we don't see Goten and Trunks being overly relied on protecting earth as Gohan was. Even Gohan himself doesn't that much expect for few arcs in Super.
Fun fact: Chi-Chi has a thicker hick accent than Goku.
I think a naked unconscious child covered in bruises is far more in need of attention than a conscious adult. Yes Goku was in bad shape but he chooses to go through these things on his own accord, meanwhile Gohan who’s still a kid is dragged into a fight with savage warriors. Chichi is fully justified in getting Gohan first
The only thing I didn't like was how she had the audacity to blame Goku for Gohan's injuries when Piccolo was the one who kidnapped him and forced him to fight the Saiyans in the first place, then you remembered Goku was just revived after an entire year and Goku told his son to leave the battlefield with Krillin so he could fight Vegeta alone. Gohan chose to fight after Goku told him several times to leave.
She couldn't at least check on goku after checking his son was okay?
@@highlandave8507Yeah her prioritizing Gohan never bothered me and I probably would have been mad, but her blaming Goku for Gohan's condition was inexcusable, especially she knew he was dead for a year
Amen
@highlandave8507 how would chichi know goku said that? All she saw was her but naked knocked out child
Appreciate you bringing up both the misunderstandings of her character and the bad writing of her on Toriyama's part.
Bad writing? Or was toriyama ALWAYS a comedy writer first and foremost? His origins are in gag manga
@LiveLXStudios true
@@LiveLXStudiosWhere's the funny, though? I find it hilarious personally but nowehere is that an obvious comedy section.
We literally won't be having these arguements years later if it's actually written AND drawn like actual comedy panels. Toriyama was great but still does a lot of mistakes, in the end
@@stromtgm3505I would argue in the original panel that the comedy comes from Goku’s expression as Chi-Chi jumps over him, which seems like surprise. It’s a denial of expectations for him which could be seen as comedic.
@@stromtgm3505we’re having these conversations years down because dragon ball fans don’t know anything about their own show, not because it isn’t funny.
Majority of the people complaining are the same people who still think kid buu is stronger than buuhan
I never hated Chi-Chi. It's surprising that many didn't understand her.
They could never make me hate her or Gochi (the ship between Goku x Chi-Chi)
I hate chi chi
I'm not a fan of Chichi but I can totally get where she's coming from,
I think people understood her pretty well. There's not that much to misunderstand in the first place. The guy in the video already said that. She's a stereotypical, almost a satirical, grumpy housewife character, and that's pretty much it.
honestly i just feel bad for her goku is kind of a shit dad
When I was younger, I didn't like Chi-Chi however as I've gotten older, she has gained my respect. Living with Goku could not have been easy.
Yeah if I was critically injured next to my son I’d want my wife to check on him first. It’s not rocket science.
Honestly, I chalk it down to Toriyama just not knowing how to write a character in her position and defaulting to "overbearing housewife and tiger mom".
Or maybe that her character
@@saadsami8860
Nah, Toriyama had publicly admitted he was bad at writing female characters.
Shonen writers and not being able to write female characters, name a more icon duo
@@VestedUTuberat least he admitted it
So when do we blame the character and when do we blame the author?
The dragonball fandom, especially the older ones, are switching up their understanding of chichi due to their personal growth in life.
I definitely believe that this shift is because many fans have become parents themselves.
In my eyes, chichi's character could've been more than "stereotypical tiger mum." I just finished watching dragonball recently, and idk why tori decided that this was the best direction when she has a lot of unexplored background. You would think being goku's wife would make him have more interesting interactions. But no, let's have another chichi screaming session.
No wonder fans are giving her more traits in fan mangas because the original didn't bother.
Also, in her defence, before the Z portion, she didn't know everyone as well as goku. In DB, we meet her near the beginning and the end. While the gang has been hanging out nearly regularly, she hasn't seen these people for 7 years. Then she flies off with goku, so add another 5 years. Other than goku, gohan, and ox king, she won't really feel as hurt over the deaths of the others. Plus, the fact that the Z gang didn't tell her the truth about goku and gohan HER husband and son would've understandably put them in the bad books anyway.
Toriyama was not a perfect man, his stories were wrote with certain things in mind and a specific focus. It's obvious a story like this will have flaws, it was not intended to be a perfect story. That being said, he was still a great write who made great things with only his pen and mind.
what fan mangas? i wanna see some so i can see more of her
@@73NSH1Lady Red 🙄
@specialnewb9821 Tf does that mean
I agree she was written as a stubborn, irrational naggy wife and mother, but I also think it's pretty normal for her to prioritize her kindergartner son turned soldier over her husband. Is it fair? No, but it's also not fair to launch an elderly man to the stratosphere for being a pervert and that's a very mainstream anime visual gag. Anime doesn't owe us a realistic portrayal of human behavior with nuanced views on morality.
Thank you. People want what is clearly a comedic and over the top series to be a reflection of reality. When it isn't.
Shes also a super hillbilly
So anime can give us an irrational overly dramatic and baggy wife that doesn’t care about her husband who died the year prior while protecting her son that she cares for so much
@@jeffsmith3747 I don't usually say this, but in the case of Dragon Ball... It's not that deep, it's all for the gags. Chi-Chi nags about Goku not having a job, 5 minutes after he saved the Universe.
@ yeah I’m saying that this moment was NOT a gag, gokus body was mangled up, gohan was near death, krillin was nearly beaten, 4 of there long time friends were dead PERMANENTLY then chichi arrives acting stupid and blaming goku for something he had nothing to do with, how was this a gag? I genuinely need you to explain this
Yup, Chi Chi isn't some misunderstood character just as Goku isn't a terrible person or a terrible father. How can you call someone a bad father when the reason they're dead is because they died saving their son....... TWICE!
FRRRR
He could have been brought back the second time but didn't want to
@omegavideos2348 because he thought that was the best way to keep his family safe, and for the next 7 years it worked.
The second time bro would rather be dead than be with his family lol
@@RedHood2791He felt like he was the reason why the world was constantly being targeted and he was right, look at Beerus, Frieza, Everyone else.
another case of "dont fuck with dragon ball fans, we havent even watched/read it"
A lot of Dragon Ball characters are characters despite their world.
Chichi is an overbearing mother, despite living in a world where her son can shrug off atomic bombs.
The fact that the fandom understand this, but Chichi doesn't is what is frustrating.
Gohan is a scholar, despite living in a world where he was and can still be the deciding factor in the fate of the universe.
The fact that Gohan should have learned this lesson when he was fighting Cell is what is frustrating.
Goku is a selfish fighter, despite living in a world that requires him to be the hero.
The fact that Goku is more than happy to be BOTH a hero and a selfish fighter is what makes him work. He'll go for the good fight FIRST, but be the FIRST to suggest the win button(fusion, beerus, zeno) when things get out if hand.
This
It is the fandom that doesn’t understand, not Chichi.
Gohan hates fighting, and the only time he ever needs to fight is to carry the consequences of the mistakes made by Goku and Vegeta.
Chichi understands his necessity to fight, but she also doesn’t want her child to go off into deathmatches instead of living a normal life. Literally any worthwhile mother would do the same.
@@littlemoth4956 “chichi understands the necessity to fight”
Also ChiChi: “HIS STUDIES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SAVING THE WORLD!!!”
I mean, Piccolo and Goku and co. don't pit Gohan against atomic bombs, they pit him against the raditzes and vegetas space aliens and cells, stuff that Gohan definitely can't shrug off as demonstrated by years of him being irrelevant till the series of screwups that led to him defeating Cell, and nothing else, ever lmao
@@littlemoth4956 and what mistakes was made by Goku?
I genuinely wish toyotarou develops chi chi more in whats left of dbs
There's something left?
@@NorthSutherlandFrieza is still alive, remember
@@NorthSutherland there is literally one arc left of super
She's barely in Super, especially the manga.
I do enjoy your balanced looks at contested topics in anime that also addresses headcanon. It's kind of refreshing, good vid
I think that if they had trained Gohan like Master Roshi, Chi-Chi would have been more permissive.
I always saw her as a tough mother who wanted Gohan to have every opportunity.
If Gohan's training consisted of training well, studying properly, resting well and having fun, she would have let him. Chi-Chi doesn't seem to have a problem with her children knowing how to fight and defend themselves, she just doesn't want them to throw themselves headfirst into fights to the death like Goku does.
We also need to take in consideration the cultural aspect of it: Asian culture, and more closely China/Japan.
You can see throughout DragonBall how women are pictured to be extremely irrational.
Plus, Chichi is clearly depicted as the typical traditional Chinese women who wants her kids to succeed socially aka through studies. Or at least she's based on how Japanese men at that time used to see them.
Also, she's written for comical purposes since that's what Toriyama liked to do 1st.
So of course there are some exaggerations, though it's deliberate.
Western people saw that differently mainly because of the cultural contrast.
But trust me, all minority people who watched the show could relate so much that they laughed a lot seeing Chichi since she acts accurately as most mothers in our community do.
It's comical. And it's also true 😂
I feel for Chi-Chi. She needs to go to one of the other universes that didn't have to participate in the Tournament of Power- universes that don't govern their entire existence on a punching contest.
Except that's none of them.... The top had all universes available participating... The only ones that can't were literally destroyed by lord zeno for being problematic...
It was understandable for Chi Chi to worry more about Gohan than Goku. But jumping over Goku's injured body and then blaming him when it was Piccolo who got Gohan involved in this. Then, having Yajirobe of all people hate how she showed no care towards Goku. I'm not even sure if this was a misunderstood scene, Toriyama intentionally tried to make her the jerk, especially when Gohan later tells her to shut up.
I'm totally ok with Chichi going first for Gohan but the thing that bothers me is that even Krillin and Yashirobi told her she should check on her husband and she refuses
Any mother would run for their child
you know as a fan who doesnt really engage with fandoms (Ima starwars fan and they scared me outa takin up ranks with them so i just reject fandom in general)
I never knew people didnt like chichi. cause I liked chichi. shesa great wife for goku and agreat mom for gohan- the only person who listens to gohan when he says hes not interested. his biggest advocate./ my moms was alot like that but i suppose if you dont have a loud angry german mom youd see it as far to radical. Out of the main party i never really found any of the heroes annoying. and if anyones morals should be critizised its vegitas no question dude was the hardest to get on the right track.
I believe Chi-Chi's rationality is "If Goku wants to get himself killed, I can't stop him but I sure as hell will do everything in my power to stop Gohan from doing the same." Which is understandable. Her biggest flaw is definitely her stubbornness and unwillingness to listen which I get is meant to be satirical, but its kind of a bummer that we never really get to see her be anything more than nagging mom and wife.
Leaping over Goku for their child is a perfect act of love and understanding. She shows that she loves her husband by prioritizing their children and also that she understands that Goku was probably the one who made the situation worse with his obsession with fighting. I would be mortified if my wife cared for me over my children. That would be an evil woman.
Even if Goku wasn't the one who was at fault, it wouldn't have been an unreasonable assumption given past and future events. Goku routinely abandons ChiChi to train or whatever but if ChiChi doesn't come running to him she's evil? I think people just give Goku the benefit of the doubt because we see the story through his eyes. She knows Goku literally thrives in finding powerful enemies and getting nearly killed and would probably be in the same situation of his own volition even if there wasn't a need for it. That's just what he does.
@@CCRUEnthusist To be fair, Chi Chi practically begged Goku to marry her. It's not like Goku pretended to be some smooth Casanova to get Chi Chi to marry him only to become an uncaring, absent husband afterwards. She knew Goku loved martial arts and never had the desire to settle down. That said, Goku did settle down just for Chi Chi and gave her the family she wanted. Before Raditz arrived, Goku spent five years in peace with Chi Chi and Gohan. Piccolo was out there, but Goku never sought him out for a fight. Their lives were so non-eventful that Goku mentions at the beginning of the Saiyan arc that Gohan had never even seen the moon because their family all went to bed so early at night. Goku is hardly an ideal family man, but he's not always abandoning his family to seek fights like many people perceive.
@@CCRUEnthusist I don't see where was goku at fault here and this fight goku really didn't do something to say he love fight to much
He told gohan to go told vegeta nappa to go they didn't then had to fight you take a lot of things here out of context
The only thing here that us his fault is him being alien something he didn't even know and it's literally isn't different from saying it's his fault for getting born as alien and it's kinda messed up in a way
couldn't have said it better. Chi Chi is WAY overhated. God forbid she want her children not die in wreckless combat and have a life for themselves.
@@philw3039 I think a lot of that comes from how he's written in Super. As far as I can tell, Super seemed to prioritize cool fights and new ultimate forms over an actually interesting story to be engaged with.
BRO SHES A MOM. And besides, Goku is always getting into scraps, Chi Chi has been married to him for too many years for her to worry he gets hurt during a fight. GOHAN IS LITERALLY 3 TO 5 YEARS OLD.
Ive always seen Chi chi as a rememant of Toriyama's gag characters, in Z especially where the Z fighters are too busy fighting serious life or death battles the best characters to play off as comic relief where Chichi and other side characters like Ox King and Mr Satan, characters you involve in the story for an exaggerated reaction to alleviate the tension, especially since Toriyama loved his gags and jokes.
But at the same time i remember that Chi chi saw goku crush his skull in Piccolo's ribs at mac 3 speed while having a gaping hole in his chest and then walk it off in the most airheaded way possible, and I can see why people say that she knew Goku can take care of himself.
I think it's a combination of a good interpretation that doesn't get to live long because, at the end of the day, Chichi's role is that of the gag tiger mom.
People on twitter aren't real Dragon Ball fans. Chichi has always been a satirical portrayal of an Asian tiger mom who prioritizes their child's life and education over anything else. It's shown numerous times, the scene at the end of the Saiyan Arc a prime example of that where she literally doesn't care about the fate of the world or anything else other than Gohan's studies.
Honestly, it's her biggest flaw, tourists and new fans act like she's flawless for her act, but her completely ignoring Goku is just too stupid to ignore.
Chi chi is one of the best characters in dball IMO. she has that skyler white syndrome where people dont get her character and as a result, dump on her. IMO, every action chichi takes is very logical! she loves her son and doesnt want him in danger, its super duper normal of a reaction. its also a comedy manga secondly to battle, and most dont get that its just funny to overplay certain things
Jumping over Goku because it's "his fault Gohan is in that situation" is the FURTHEST thing from logical.
@@PharaohM nah, he is her baby.
What annoys me are those who constantly claim that people don’t like Chi Chi because they don’t understand her when that’s far from true.
@@EWOODJ so true!
@@andrearovenski But it ISNT Goku's fault??? It is flat out illogical. She didn't ignore goku because "Gohan is her baby". She ignored Goku because she blamed him.
I understand people don't want to hate on Chi-chi because she's just a mom who cares, but to try and play devils advocate, I think the reason people hate her is because they think about the context in her line of thinking in the context of this universe. Without Goku training, the world would be destroyed. Even when he tried to remain dead after the Cell Saga, thinking it was his fault that enemies were coming, enemies still kept coming. We literally have Future Trunks come back from the future to tell everyone that everyone is dead including Gohan because everyone wasn't strong enough for the Androids. Then in Super they just make her even worse. At least in DBZ it's understandable why she wouldn't want Gohan in the mix of things as a LITERAL CHILD, but as an adult who did exactly what she wanted of being a scholar, she still treats him and eventually Pan like she still owns them. When Chi-chi argues with Hercule and Gohan about wanting Pan to be a successful career woman with a corner office, I cringed so hard. She's not her mom and eventually Bulma and Videl talk to her with some sense that Pan is going to decide what SHE wants to do with HER life. And then in Dragon ball Super Hero, that movie is literally proof that everyone, including Gohan needs to keep training, especially the next generation because Goku and Vegeta won't always be there when it's convenient or won't be there at all in the case of the Androids. Gohan, Goten, Trunks and eventually Pan all need to keep training to protect the future of Earth. Because without an earth, there would be no place to study in. The closest real life equivalent I can think of is when your kid signs up for the military. OF COURSE you don't want your kid to join the military, why can't it be someone else's kid? "I am not the Earth's mother!" As Chi-chi would say. But her saying that line is so backwards. There needs to be people to fight for the country otherwise we lose our rights and our freedoms. At least in our world, millions of people are in the military. But in the context of DBZ, if they don't train and fight to protect the Earth, who else will? Nobody else will because they're the only ones with that kind of strength. It doesn't help that in Sparking Zero whenever a Saiyan character transforms, she calls them a delinquent. We get it! People in Japan who dye their hair blonde are seen as delinquents! It doesn't need to be her whole character. I just feel bad for Chi-chi. She's just written so poorly, angrily and one note. People say it's for the sake of comedy, but she's genuinely not funny. As someone who has trauma from a parent who constantly yelled and was disciplined for not having good grades, it's not funny and will never be funny to push your own ambitions on your kid. I completely agree with your video. Chi-chi is a victim of poor comedic writing. I understand why people try to sympathize with her and understand her character, but almost all these scenes she's in and even in video games just show her to be an incredibly one note, close minded character. And it really sucks that she's the exception. No other dragon ball female character gets this amount of hate and it sucks.
I'd be more worried about Gohan, too? Like she's seen Goku get his butt kicked before, but this is the first time she's seen Gohan in a state like this, and he's her little boy!
It was an exaggerated scene, but the root of her reaction makes sense to me because I've seen plenty of women who'd be more worried about their young child than their husband.
Finally someone who takes the time to analyze the character instead of just taking one side in this argument, I really like Chi Chi and at that moment when she arrives on the battlefield it's normal for her to prioritize Gohan, but it's at the moment that she Blame Goku for everything that happened that made me furious. He died and stayed like that for a year, he came back to save the earth including their son so that after everything his wife still treated him like shit.
Wait. I've been consuming Dragon Ball content since the mid-90's, I have *never* heard this referenced by even the most hardcore dorks. She jumped over Goku to go to Gohan... yeah duh? Do some of y'all just have no experience with women or family or kids or just... anything?
Hating Chi Chi is the weeb equivalent of hating Skylar from Breaking Bad. You tell on yourself and your utter lack of experience with basically anything when you shit talk those characters.
She jumped over him for a horrible reason
@PharaohM
So jumping over my lover who is made for taking this damage and can be helped anyways to help our son who is fucking 4 years old and has some bone broken is a horrible reason?
@@SussySuzuki Nope! That would be a good reason! But through Chi-Chis own words that wasnt her reason for ignoring Goku. Her actual reason is insane.
@@PharaohM Good point, you will never know what was the original reply
@@SussySuzuki Oh cmonnn tell mee
Chichi was being a loving mother who was pissed at her husband
Dawg, people take this shit way too seriously lmao.
For sure.
Yeah when it comes to Chi-chi for me I don't hate her it's pretty natural for a mother wanting whats best for child. Now does she go to the extreme ? yes, but she's pretty much a satire on the whole Asian parents overly pressuring their kids into being successful. In my honest opinion the best versions of her was both in the buu saga where she definitely mellowed out from letting Gohan enter the tournament (granted it was for the money but still) to even training Goten how to fight and cheering for him during the tournament as well. Then the other being surprisingly GT where again she was pretty calm and chill most of the time even when Goku left with Shenron she wasn't angry or yelling she was like " well that's goku, the man i love, he'll be back when he gets hungry i'm sure of it" to me those are my favorite interpretations of her where she still have that fire tempter but can take it down a notch and understand that this is just her family and she loves them.
Over the years ive come to realize the anime mightve overdid it when it comes to Chi Chi and how she acts but damn...couldve at least said something to Goku before running over to Gohan.
Gohan's like 4 years old at the time, right? Chichi's perfectly in line for a mother whose 4 year old was kidnapped, heavily injured, and then wants to go into space
100% literally the only people who complain are incels
I just didn't like how she blamed Goku for of what happened to Gohan. Piccolo is way more to blame and Goku tried several times to get away
I think the anime does make things worse with these kinds of scenes being drawn out or added into spaces where they previosuly weren't, but you're absolutely correct that this is her consistent characterization. She quite literally doesn't want Gohan to train or be involved with the Cell Games just because "he'll fall behind on his studies."
I'd love a video about Sakura from you! Really nice insight and your delivery is refreshing in its brisk and pointed nature.
The only thing I didn't like was how she had the audacity to blame Goku for Gohan's injuries when Piccolo was the one who kidnapped him and forced him to fight the Saiyans in the first place, then you remembered Goku was just revived after an entire year and Goku told his son to leave the battlefield with Krillin so he could fight Vegeta alone. Gohan chose to fight after Goku told him several times to leave.
I agree. If Chichi should be mad at anyone, it should've been Piccolo. I guess since Piccolo wasn't around, Chichi took her anger out on Goku instead.
Chi-Chi always use to get on my nerves whenever she called Goten and Gohan delinquent whenever they turned super saiyan, I use to believe that Chi-Chi might have thought Gohan dyed his hair yellow and she disapproved of it.
I never understood why she would call super saiyan a delinquent until I found out that hair being dyed to a blond color in Japan is associated with delinquency, which Chi-Chi never explained which was the reason why I don’t like her as a character and she also prevented Goten from meeting Future Trunks until Future Trunks starts to leave for the new timeline with Future Mai
Added personal edit: Chichi was a widow. Once your husband dies and your child is alive but you can’t see him, and you cope with that alone and it’s HIS fault-fault can be a big part of bargaining and denial of her own permission to both of their fates-she was changed.
Seriously, lots of people get angry with someone dies or disappears on them. But a child is her responsibility. Once Goku died, til death do we part has to be reckoned with.
DBZ was kind of important in our house because our dad also died of a heart condition, like the android saga virus. Some widows close up and live just for their children. They have issues. Others don’t understand them. They stop trying to understand each other. Because when you can’t be a wife anymore all you have is mother. Even if that means everyone who tries to influence or take away your kids from you even for a greater good is the enemy.
I don’t think most fans understand DB. Almost feels like people’s ability to think critically about something is gone and it’s replaced with surface level understanding. Just talked with my girl how being a regular person in an anime world would fucking suck balls for multiple reasons. Can’t even blame Chi Chi for wanting a normal life, shoot Gohans dreams was the become a scholar at age 4. Of course that was from Chi Chi but someone gotta have a normal life. Gohan is like a perfect balance of Goku and Chi Chi. Loves to fight for fun, but doesn’t want to kill, works hard and wants to support his family. Don’t we all want some form of that in life? Just peace?
What you’re saying has nothing to do with the situation, she’s acting like a complete bjtch to her mangled up husband is it really that crazy for her to show care for both her husband and child?
Chi-Chi certainly has an attitude problem. Perfect example is when Videl first arrives at Goku's house and instead of simply asking Videl, "Yes, can I help you?" Chi-Chi rudely automatically assumes Videl came to sell something. Also, why does she want Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive when she was driving in an earlier episode while she and her father The Ox King were on their way to Master Roshi's Island?
She was worried about her son.
Thank you! My problem with that scene was never that she went to gohan first, that makes total sense. It was how she was intentionally ignoring goku and blaming all of this on him when it’s not at all his fault in the slightest and he did everything in his power to prevent what happened. Always just left a bad taste in my mouth. Thankfully she calmed down a lot later on and especially in super. She seemed more like she actually did care and wasn’t just trying to push what she wanted onto her family. Besides trying to force goku to get a job, I never understood that.
Yeah I can see how people can defend Chi Chi for that scene because honestly as a parent who had to live with the knowledge my child was kidnapped for a year by my spouse’s arch-enemy, I’d be more concerned for him like you said. But also as you mentioned there’s so many moments of her that just paint her as unlikable by Toriyama, we can’t defend her for everything.
Like you brought up, she did not care at all about Goku being alive again but in critical condition and blamed him for everything in that saga when it came to him being beat up and Gohan’s situation despite Goku doing everything right in that arc. Like we could all agree the Saiyan Saga is probably the saga that displays Goku being a good parent the best without any mistakes (when he’s alive that is) but he is still called out by her for things that aren’t his fault.
I don’t hate Chi-Chi but I always hate that moment in the saga on the plane where she blames him and the lack of concern she continues to have for him.
Realistically, the two would probably get divorced if they were real and Goku understood what that meant. Because of problems on both sides, mind you. Their marriage can go from loving to nearly toxic at times 😅
Chichi is kinda like our own parents. You just couldn't understand them as a child, and once you get older, all the hardships they put you through have ultimately made you a better person, and you learn to appreciate who they were.
Gohan has his neck snapped as a child and people act like it Chichi fault for him wanting to be a scholar.
Dragon balls fans are the only people you’ll see get mad at a mother for being more concerned about her child than her husband
I think the point of her behavior in the scene is her putting on a tough exterior to save face, because she's still a literal Princess.
I think folks sleep on the fact that she really is a princess
To me, she was putting on airs that her husband is fine, and has total confidence that he's going to recover. If she acts too upset and goes fawning over Goku, then she would be saying that she believes that Goku is weak and vulnerable. That's extremely unbecoming of royalty.
To a lesser degree, she feels the same way towards the others, too.
BUT, if she directs all her upset and fear in a performative manner to her son, the one acceptable subject of her attention, then its all good according to her sensibilities.
But... even if we want to go into a gritty, serious perspective, and her performative acts of saving face aside, her general focus on the kids is the correct decision.
Chi-Chi is the single most instrumental figure in ensuring that the most powerful hybrid Saiyan offspring in the universe remain on the right path.
Especially earlier in the time of writing, Gohan was pripritized as Goku's successor- with the capacity to overtake his father in power. This boy HAD to remain pure of intention at all cost, and that meant having a guiding influence who recognized how his head worked and gave him direction in achieving a peaceful outcome.
Maybe Gohan would have been okay without the Scholar path, sure. He did okay with Piccolo's training.
But what about Goten? Would Trunks have his even keel without his friendly peer and pseudo aunt?
People act like its a given that Goku's kids are so good natured, but given the Saiyan propensity to fight, the danger of the world, and Goku's emotional unavailability, I don't think that's actually the case.
Chi-Chi is seemingly a strict mother and all, but she gave a LOT of space to her kids throughout the series and she raised great kids, mostly on her own.
Kids who had the capacity to level cities at any moment. That's actually kind of a fuckin nightmare, you know?
look at the mental gymnastics you’re doing for this garbage character wooow, she’s putting on a front cause she’s a princess really?
This is a well thought out video, I really enjoyed this, the way you articulate the message is phenomenal.
Was this trip really necessary? Chi-Chi is a mom. Chi-Chi is _Gohan's_ mom. Moms are tremendously protective of their kids. (The good ones, anyway.) 'Nuff said, I feel. But, if it must be said, she knows Goku can take care of himself. She doesn't know that her son, *who has been missing for a year by this point,* can do the same. So.
(I'm sure all this was said in the video, but I didn't watch the video for more than a minute.)
Correct and i agree... After all this is Goku... GOKU! Being her husband, obviously she knows him enough to know that he can take care of himself...
Not to mention Gohan's personality was that of a timid little boy who easily afraid of most things. He was the complete opposite of young Goku. So of course she'll be worried for her son when he showed no evidence of being to take care of himself.
I mean fair but to just blindside him and jump over his crippled body without even a "Omg Goku!", doesnt sit right with me.
@@DjPrimeVideosikr the problem is not because she knew Goku would be fine but she doesn't even shows any concerns to others especially Goku even for a minute like she pretend everyone else doesn't existed. It's like you having car accidents your wife comes and only pickup rescue your kid then left you like "He's my husband he will be alright"...
Whenever this topic gets brought up (primarily by defenders of this event) one thing is always the same. They misunderstand what the problem is.
It is not that Chichi is prioritizing Gohan over Goku. They argue that Chichi isn’t worried because she’s seen him like this before. That she cares but Gohan is a priority.
When they say this they have already misunderstood why people dislike her in this scene.
It also shows that a majority of these people haven’t actually re-read this scene to its completion. Because in the very next scene we see Chichi directly blaming Goku for getting Gohan hurt and showing that she does not care for his well being in this moment because of that.
This makes her look bad because she doesn’t know the exact circumstances behind him being this hurt. Her only ground to stand on with being mad at Goku would be if she knew Goku asked Gohan to stall Vegeta.
She does not have this information (keep in mind the scene of her seeing the fight in Baba’s crystal ball is anime-only). If she isn’t mad at him for that then all the other reasons are either unreasonable or outright horrific considering how out of the loop she is.
The worse possibility is that she blames Goku for dying because that leads to Gohan training with Piccolo which leads to Gohan fighting the Saiyans.
All the other options don’t make her look any better. It’s either bad faith (automatically thinking Goku is responsible) or blaming him for protecting their son. You’d think she would have some sort of care for Goku since she would know that Goku died protecting their son. (Also he’s her loving husband) Meaning if he dies while wounded on the ground here, he’s gone for good.
l Get it’s for a gag but if that gag hurts her characterization (making her a bad wife) then it doesn’t matter, it hurts her character.
I mean she's a stressed out hothead that doesn't really know what she's doing, I'd say she did pretty well all things considered. The fact Goku was dead for 7 years and she didn't even seem to flinch about resuming their marriage says something at least.
bruh it kills me that the key points of this video are "chichi is a mother whose child is her top priority," "chichi is not omniscient," and "chichi is a person with flaws"
I think it’s the fact that she never changes, and only does when Goku dies but then goes back to normal when he comes back alive. If it weren’t for piccolo training Gohan the world would be gone 15 times over😭😭😭
I love the fact that a NSFW artist somehow wrote a better character for chi chi than toriyama XD
Totally agree. Regardless of if it’s reasonable or not (which a lot of the time it isn’t), ChiChi is left as a one dimensional character and essentially an endlessly reused joke and it’s a shame. I’d have really enjoyed a DBZ where she wasn’t just relegated to a irrational tiger mom
Though it’s Dragon Ball. Leaving side characters by the wayside with nothing to do is in the franchise’s DNA
One thing that bothers me about Chi-Chi's character that I rarely see mentioned is her disrespect for her father, who is clearly supporting her family financially, at least before Super. She tries to control the way Gohan is raising Pan, but when Ox-King tries to insert himself in her parenting she beats him up. The way she demands respect from her adult sons (including Goten in GT when she slaps him) while having none for her father is a bit hypocritcal.
10:49
Falling behind on his studies? He was doing advanced math at four years old, what kind of education system was she basing his studies on?
Who needs context to understand that ANY mother would be worried sick that her 5 years old child was beaten to death. Of course ANY mother (including animals) would prioritize the safety of her offspring to that of her husband.
Again, Gohan was just 5 years old when the sayians arrived. I don't think people understand how young Gohan is through out Dragon Ball Z. Goku was 14 when we were introduced to him, Gohan is 5 and was forced into fighting planet busting threats. He was barely 18 by the Buu Saga...
I will be honest, I never hated really hated her but I can understand as to why most love her and most hate her. Some of the moments she shares with Goku in Dragon Ball/Z/Super is really sweet but there are moments where she gets rather irritating. Like how in Super, she barricaded herself in a room with Pan, Videl, and later Bulma and tries to control Pan’s life by coaxing Videl into parenting her way. You’re just the grandmother, she’s not your child and you don’t control her and decide what’s best. That’s up to Gohan and Videl. And she along with Bulma criticize their husbands with Chichi even saying “they don’t know how much trouble we go through.” . . . Your husbands saved the world multiple times and even sacrificed them selves and yet they’re judging them for not getting a job.
While I mostly blame the writing for Chichi’s character (and multiple others), I just think a human marrying an extraterrestrial is just the start for issues. This just seems to bolster when you take into account that their relationship was solely on a promise that Goku inadvertently made when they were kids, especially when Goku thought marriage was a type of food.
People have done this human and extraterrestrial couple multiple times and the only one that I can think of that was decent is Debbie and Nolan from Invincible (before knowing Nolan’s true identity). Both just seemed to have a better understanding for each other. I don’t know if Toriyama was involved in some or all of writing Chichi’s character in Z and Super, and I didn’t say this to be disrespectful to him. I’m just giving my two cents on her character.
Chichi is a stereotypical asian mother. My mother and my wife are also like her.
I pray for you
Everyone who dislikes chichi for this specific instance doesn’t know what it’s like to be responsible for a child
Says you
But she doesn’t even check up on Goku not once, that’s what ppl have an issue with
Being a parent is a sacrifice if you decide to have a kid that is your responsibility to take care of them so actully this is reasonable and gohan was hurt badly to if you dont know that you shouldn't have kids you re self
@ I’m aware lmao. I understand that chichi could’ve been written better but I do think it’s funny that almost the entire fan base is upset with her over something Goku clearly doesn’t care about
@@judethomas441 I agree
as a parent, id love the man who gave me a kid assuming there was no had blood. and chi chi absolutely has to love the fuck out of goku. the shit she does for him without complaint, all the food and dishes she does, like legit, imagine having to cook that much for one dude alone EVERY time he eats EVERY day.
that being said, despite the fact that id love my man or woman, and chi chi defo fuckin loves goku, i too would focus on my baby boy.
like people who say goku was more injured, FUCK that, Goku is conscious, gohan is not only significantly younger, weaker(without the rage boost that lasts seconds and chi chi has ever seen) but he is both knocked the fuck out, and missing a whole tail. he is missing, a literal, limb. and remember that that means realistically gohans lower half would probably be covered in blood too. a parents duty is to their child as soon as they are born. Chi Chi loves her son and last time goku and piccolo fought a much weaker radditz, her husband died. now she sees her husband is alive and her son without a limb and is face down in the dirt, NAKED and bruised from head to toe, and again gohan would realistically be covered in blood from his MISSING LIMB THATS CONNECTED TO HIS SPINE! if i was chi chi, id be struggling not to hit someone for letting this happen to my baby boy. and yeah its not their fault, but shes a mom in panic. no one would be thinking about that.
z chi chi is an amazing wife and an even more amazing mom.
super chi chi sucks sure, but z chi chi is fucking amazing and i hope everyone finds a man or woman as dedicated as her.
BULMA is an unfaithful girlfriend with how she did yamcha, or how she legit teases vegeta about whis spending time with her, and thinks its funny that vegeta tells yako(the patrolman, ill admit i dunno how its spelled) that he "better not try anything" with his wife.
but yet all people do is just joke about how she cheated on yamcha for a second and move on, no one actually calls her a bad character.
chi-chi, fuckin, rocks.
and yeah, from her perspective, i can see why shed be upset at everyone including goku. she doesnt know goku tried to get gohan out of there at all. shes in a panic rage. id be fucked up for days
I can’t imagine anyone who genuinely loves their family, APPRECIATE* HAVING* TO HAVE THEM, RISK THEIR LIVES ALL THE TIME. And I agree, a lot of it had to do with Goku in many occasions, simply out of his saiyan pride to “BE STRONGER”. So yes, I can understand her resentment at risking not only him, but Gohan (maybe not in this arc, but he certainly didn’t hold back when Cell came around… as a mother, I can understand her frustration in the whole situation. Doesn’t mean I’d like it any more than she did =|
Chichi and Bulma are the type of chicks ever guy needs
They are the perfect women for Goku and Vegeta
1:04 "Does nothing herself"
Cooking for Saiyans is practically a job in itself
In other words she is a typical japanese wife/mother Toriyama is literally making fun of all japanese women's behaviour post marriage such a typical Toriyama move
The dragon quest 9 music is much appreciated
I mean, I’d hope my wife prioritizes my young son over me in a situation like that.
Only someone insane or not in touch with reality wouldn’t understand why Chi-Chi hopped over Goku
Glad you used the word comedic because that's always what Chichi's been, a caricature by a mangaka who was a comedian at heart hahah people just take her way too seriously because of what DB became.
Chichi was not a comedic character at this point, this was a very serious moment where everyone had died permanently, the excuses you people make for chichi is crazy
@@jeffsmith3747 I don't particularly like Chichi and this has nothing to do with making excuses, Goku's reaction (specially in the anime version) and her intensity are telltale signs it's a moment of levity about Goku reacting in shock to his crazy nagging wife after dealing with all that lmao.
Ive never understood when people take character analysis to real life moral extremes like this because people will say they dislike chi chi because she’s a bad wife or mother, and morally thats not very good. But half of the Z fighters have either beaten the shit out of or literally killed/tried to kill Goku. Chi Chi jumping over goku is a gag, you can see goku visibly confused as she comically leaps over him. If we all thought about the characters rationally then no one should like vegeta because hes killed literal millions of people
I will forever hate how Toriyama wrote Chi Chi throughout Z and Super. She wasnt a saint in DB but she wasnt as bad as she was portrayed in later series. But since Z and Super are mainstream, Chi Chi will forever be known as the mean, nagging wife.
as a parent myself, i understand the tunnel vision you can get when it comes to your children and their safety. sometimes in dire moments, all that you can see is your kid, everything else in the world gets shut out so you can focus on their safety above all things.
i think chi chi was well within her right.
she knows goku is strong, but she didn't feel the same way about her little boy which is fair enough. he was 5 years old or so 😂 😂
Chi-chi reminds me of my mom, very caring but very strict
To understand Chichi, you must understand woman. Women who find things worth it, want preservation and safety for it. She ran to Gohan because she knew Goku would be alright. She ran to Gohan because he's her baby and could be traumatized. Being married to Goku would be like being with a vet/athlete/peter pan/trashcan/superman.
I personally love Chichi. I think it's more common for women to understand Chichi point of view.
The sayian arc, Her four year old was kidnapped, Her husband was killed, And her son who was now five was nearly killed....😅 And considering how she lived during dragonball. I understand how she wants more for Gohan and Goten.
Has most likely Chichi she didn't get a proper education or Didn't wanna be a fighter. Even though incredibly strong. She seems more of a timid soul when she was younger
Fans when you don't let your childrens of 4 years old fight with Mike Tyson Prime: 😡😡😡
I’d be absolutely INSANE if I was married to Goku! She holds that man DOWN, is stuck raising kids on her own, and cooking for people who have superhuman appetites.
I would 10000% jump over my husband who gets into fights for fun, to save my son who doesn’t enjoy fighting and getting hurt.
One thing about Chi Chi that often gets overlooked is that even though she turned Gohan into a total nerd, she made sure that Goten was his father's son, even though he wasn't around for much of his childhood. She could have made Goten study all the time like she did with Gohan, but instead she trained him to fight herself and let him go outside and just be a boy, like Goku would have wanted.
The way she immediately fixated on Goku and then expected him to change is almost jarring to think about. She really wanted a fairytale and, in the most delusional way imaginable, tried to force the issue for decades after already having a decade's worth of private obsession under her belt.
If I was a parent and I saw my child but naked unconscious and badly hurt I would prioritise them over my partner who I know is alive
She's a mother........The end
12:18 But then chichi had an small character development and decided to train Gohan and have him protect earth if necessary. Still he was out-righteous enough to slap majin buu, so he is kind of the same lady.
Toriyama was amazing but when it came to the women in the series not very well written. I know it was a different time but still as a fellow female I hate the misrepresentation. The women are all so badass and tomboyish until they get married. At which point,they lose almost all of their personality. Chichi and Videl both fighters, Bulma was a promiscuous teen to woman who got serious which i liked but still occasionally flirt. And the rest were a chance to just see them in their underwear or nude, hate that!
Goku is responsible for a lot of poor decisions while Chi Chi is a mother trying to manage being married to the Dumbest Strongest guy in the universe.
These situations happened through the ages of 4 to 11 some of the most formulative years in a child's life.
Blame Counter whether directly or indrectly
Child is kidnapped by husband's estranged ALIEN brother (Indirectly Goku)
THEN kidnapped by husband's mortal enemy (Directly Goku)
THEN almost killed by husband's brother's Boss because his mortal enemy couldn't keep his mouth shut about wish granting magical balls (Directly Picolo)
THEN goes into space and is almost killed by a Racist Galactic Dictator to revive his father's dead friends and mortal enemy because father wanted to solo fight (Directly Goku)
Then is almost killed because Father showed kindness to said Racist Dictator who shows up on Earth to get revenge (Directly Goku)
Then almost got son and friends killed by androids of father's mortal enemy because father didn't take heart meds (Directly Goku)
Then almost killed by the android who came through time to kill his father because his father thought he might like fighting (Directly Goku)
Failed to train him to control his powers which costed his father his life. (Directly Goku)
Finally decides to stay dead after realizing he is the cause of most of the deaths in the series leaving wife and son alone to help raise his brother because he wants to fight dead people (Directly Goku)
I definitely am in the camp of despising her existence. Her stubborn, shortsighted outbursts always annoyed me and you basically perfectly illustrated why. Her blaming Goku for Gohan getting involved in the Saiyan Saga was a load of crap and i really wish one of the characters, perhaps Gohan himself, confronted her about it and given her a chance to grow. The most annoying part of her is definitely how wasted she feels, she could be so much more interesting but nothing was ever done for her.
When I was younger I was really annoyed by Chi Chi but as I got older I realized she has a lot to deal with. First her husband is dead than he's in space than he's dead again. There's an episode in Super where Goku leaves again and Chi Chi actually doesn't get all that mad. Partly because I think she knows that's just the type of guy he is and that Goku will always be there when his family needs him.
Also whoever made the meme at 1:04. Funny but Chi Chi cooks all of Goku's meals, you're telling me that's NOT a full time job?
One thing no one considers is how broke Goku was and how that put them into financial problems. Her dad had a whole castle. She loved Goku, but she certainly DID NOT* WANT GOHAN* to repeat their story and stay poor. Such hardships they had to endure, all the sacrifice to save Earth but no one dared check in or wonder on every other moment of their lives. She knew Gohan would only have a productive future by studying. And he did. More so, it was also what he has mentioned several times over HE PREFERS*. And so he does. Yet this is often overlooked.
My mom is Japanese. I have more understanding on how Chichi “mothers” than most.