The 3 Worst Lessons Taught by 80s Sports Movies | After Hours
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2013
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The Rocky franchise is wish-fulfillment -- like Disney for the sad, embarrassing wishes of adults.
Make sure you watch the end of the video for a special message from Soren.
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"...wakes up, names all of his kids George." -Awesome
This line was so damn good.
Crecked basically went to the future(present) and got all the good topics for the past.
I audibly hollared 🤣👌
Michael: "Is there any way you can phrase that as a sexual metaphor?"
Dan: "Yes…Balls…"
That is actually really good points; we are conditioned to root for the underdogs, to believe that being a loser is a principle to be proud of so that when we find all throughout the rest of our lives that we are just a cog in the machine we are fine with it. The idea is to have heart and passion as a substitute for natural talent and years of training to become the best, and even when we still lose, as per Rocky 1, we walk away the moral victor.
Ray Butler (4years later, but I only just saw this now) I think it’s simpler than that. As a marketing tool, the underdog is an easy sell. Objectively speaking, almost everyone is a loser. Even if you are the best at something right now, you’re unlikely to be the best ever. So everyone relates to the underdog. And the idea that a little heart and spirit will make you win, well that feels good, right? You’re every bit as good as all these great people out there, you just chose not to work as hard. But you could have chosen differently, you “could” have been just as good as them...so basically you are, right? And even people who are or were champions can remember when they weren’t, when they were the underdog themselves. It’s just about relatable content as a plot device.
He might've lost in Rocky 1 but he really won. Beautiful
Just like everyone automatically hates dynasties
That's what made Rocky 1 perfect. He even said he couldn't win - he wasn't in the same league as a fighter. But if he could go the distance, he would know that he was more than just a bum.
@@eLiFILMSinc he really didn't lose it was a double knockout so champion(Apollo) retained the title
Love how After Hours does the exact same overly deconstructed take on all sorts of movies and TV shows, but the grumpy people only come out in the comments if they mention feminism or race.
They mention it like only four white suburbanite liberal arts majors sitting in an LA diner being waited on by minorities and women can?
Because patriotism is racist. If you hate America.
@@maxhydekyle2425 what are you talking about crazy person
@@christopherclarke3654 It's called satire
@@joshuapatrick682 Oh, I don't know. Sure, Soren's a white-bread as they come, but Katie is a woman, Dan is, if anything, some kind of asexual Lego man, and Michael prefers to view sexuality as an ever-evolving spectrum.
i love how swaim corrects soren. "WHOM?!" this is why I love this series, there are tons of subtle things like that in every episode. I literally find something new every time I watch.
so strange to recognize you in the comments as a creator 10 years later
"That is friendship. That is Brotherhood."
THAT has been in your pocket this whole time? Why?
"..When he wakes up? Names all of his kids George!"
That LOL actually hurt. Medic!
Want to mention to the universe in general how much I miss you four and hope you're all doing great. Still make me laugh after all these years.
They actually are. Soren writes for American Dad, and Dan writes for Last Week Tonight. They also have a podcast together called Quick Question. Michael runs a podcast network called Small Beans with the old Cracked Director’s. Katie was doing TV production, and now is doing art. They all collab still with podcasts and vids now and then.
@@benson55545 Thank you for this. I was wondering the same
They ruined Indiana Jones for Katie. I notice that Michael's been winning a lot of the debates lately tho...
Yeah when Michael gets going he's on fire, just a matter of keeping him engaged in the conversation
@@johnbush5347
7 years... that’s mad.
American jingojism might be the funniest joke ever written.
Did anyone else notice that The waitress got Dan's order completely wrong?
No. No I did not. She could have served him a single pork chop with a ribbon on it and I would not have noticed or cared. I don’t watch these videos to inspect restaurants and their staff. I’m here for the incredible insight into pop culture in which my life is immersed.
JimmySteller you could have just said no. Instead of trying to make them feel bad simply for being observant
It's a late response, but in my defence, I was going through the last throes of a failing marriage when I made that snappish comment. All the same, Nkiruka J is correct. I thoroughly regret my vehemence towards a humorous and harmless observation. I apologize unreservedly to Batman Lannister. You did not deserve my scorn or contempt, and I hope you accept my apology.
Good man. Sorry to hear you were going through problems, though. Hope everything is going better now.
Thank you for your well wishes. Although I chose to separate from my marriage this summer, and I’ve been struggling with my choice and the situation in general, I think things are finally getting better from what they were before.
actually, it's the under dog effect. as humans we like to keep things fair, so when we see one team who is consistently good and one that is consistently bad we route for the worse team because we would think of it as unfair if we routed for the better team
Really? Huh. I thought it was cause we normal people just suck at everything, and hate the people better than us. So we hate the people constantly winning, and like the no good worthless underdogs who we project ourselves onto who in the end beat the people that were constantly kicking their asses in whatever, or everything.
jirodyne I think it’s that ^ Unless the underdogs are dicks
"Then named all his kids George" Had me laughing way to hard
When he said "clear the courthouse" I half expected him to just push everything off the table
Yeah, I've noticed that in many movies that whoever is the best team or athlete in a movie and are pitted against an underdog, the heavy favourite is automatically the bad guy and the writers make the team or individual out to be the Devil with no redeemable personality qualities and enjoys kicking cute puppies for laughs.
It makes people think that the underdog is always right which is why so many people always support the underdog in real life even when the underdog is wrong and/or is actually evil. I'd like to see a movie where the underdog is the bad guy and the favourite to win is the good guy BUT the favourite has to work hard for the win to keep it interesting.
It's kinda weird that Soren carries around a photo of Rocky and Older Black Rocky.
Yeah, I kinda wish someone had addressed that. Would've made for a funny moment. Just Daniel or Michael doing a quick "You carry a picture of--" before someone cut them off.
Vicente Temes he did say he watches rocky 4 before a date so, it kinda makes sense. But, the question still should've been asked.
I kinda like it that it wasn't addressed. It's like they're accepting this weird thing without question. Also, it draws more attention to it for us, so it actually appears even more odd, making it more entertaining.
Not really
6:00 onwards was fucking logical as hell, look passed the jokey side of what he's saying and he raises an awesome point.
I had a feeling it was going to be guilty white bullshit but damn, that was really interesting.
+alZiiHardstylez But most movies portray the enemy as superior in some way. There'd be no fun/ honor in beating a weak opponent.
AEIIIStraigon Yeah, valid point.
+AEIIIStraigon yeah but usually the enemy earned it whereas the heroes use some plot device and all of a sudden are on par with them...i mean going by these moving standards, untrained jackasses and goofballs can over a period of weeks to months take on professionals and or lief long enthusiasts and match them.
MAnnaconduit1
You just described bleach
AEIIIStraigon
yeah Anime's and any sports movie and or comedy of the last two decades are notorious with it
Gotta love the insane degrees of interpretation that exist within everything. Thus allowing these guys to have a job.
Yep.
Everything is connected in one form or another.
omegagilgamesh
It's a fun game to play, reinterpretation I mean.
That's why is funny, you dumb shit
Creed did not teach Rocky the rope-a-dope style. He taught Rocky the sticking and moving style. Rocky just came up with his style on the spot in the ring. Against Creed's wishes mind you.
gutz1981 yup that's right!
gutz1981 also switching to south paw in the middle of the fight
Coming up with a new style on the spot is quite the Risk
R.I.P Muhammad Ali
Yes that guy rocked
Um...
I hate to ask, but...
How does one make a burrito look like a mouth?
Joseph Schmoe I was wondering the same thing. I guess the only way to know is to go to a diner and order a mouth burrito.
Dick Grayson Thanks. How's Batman?
Joseph Schmoe Doing alright. Last I saw, he was eating a steak that looked like a fist.
+Dick Grayson mmmm
Bend it into a half circle (like a smiley face :) )
the fact we have time for these moronic conversations makes me realize how good life is
Exactly! I couldn't carry on watching because my brain couldn't handle to stupidity and over-analyzing of each detail.
@@youssefrochdi1994 but it's true
Wait...we all know Rocky V is pretty bad, but what's wrong with Rocky Balboa (referred to here as Rocky VI by Soren)? That's a solid flick.
Agreed. Rocky V did suck, but Rocky Balboa is one of my favorites in the series.
+frozenaorta how does rocky 5 suck
+Daniel .W (Bullsfan71) It was a critical failure. Stallone himself even has thrown shade at it. Widely regarded as the worst of the series, and with good reason. But if you like it, hey, have a ball.
+frozenaorta The 4th and first movies are my favorite
Deonta B The first one is a fantastic piece of cinema. The fourth movie is just so much fun--it's like junk food. I know it's not a "film masterpiece," but it's the one I'll pick up watch any time. Plus it has a rockin' soundtrack!
I love that in almost every episode they seem to have a theme for their wardrobe based on what they are talking about. Maybe I'm just watching too many of these.
if you like those little things start watching the background of these newer ones. often times the people behind them are doing things that relate to the topic as well, like in the musicals episode where the waitress starts dancing for no reason.
A little correction. Rocky was already in good shape by the time training montage began. It's just that the training montage was about making an already-trained body into a better fighter, hence justifying 2 months. Also, only the first fight had 2 months training montage (it was one of the plot points why other fighters rejected fighting Apollo). The rest of Rocky series had training montage for longer time (unspecified time).
I've found that the Rocky movies only work if you don't think about them too much, and just let it all roll over you. Or be stoned to the gills, that works too. Very fun that way.
You should know about the Rocky drinking game. You take a shot every time someone says Rocky, Make it shots of beer, whiskey will kill you.
Rocky's training montage worked, because Rocky was already in good shape to begin with. His training montage wasn't "overweight bum becomes good fighter" thing. It was "turn a good fighter into a great fighter".
been looking for Sorens book for 7 years. SEVEN GOD DAMN YEARS
WHY DOES EVERY HUMAN BEING ON EARTH HAVE THE SAME FUCKING HEADPHONES AS ME
IT'S A CONSPIRACY
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Oh yeah, because they were $20 at walmart. Shit.
im wearing the bright now, there like £19 from Argos
Now that you mention it I'm wearing them too...
Because they cost $20 at bestbuy
Thee comfy, look cool and are as cheap as shit
"Your dishonor if I may..."
Someone once explained to me that Teen Wolf is basically an allegory for puberty. And it makes perfect sense.
I enjoyed this video but there is one thing about Swaim's final submission that I take issue with. Cheering for the underdog is something that predates the rocky movies. David overcoming the odds to defeat Goliath generally makes for a more inspiring story even if the person telling the story has to embellish a little. Anyone who watches sport knows that most of the time the team or player that has the talent and works hard stay in top form and has adequate financial backing wins. In fact I'd go a step further and say that it's because underdog victories IRL are so rare that they mean more to casual observers. And perhaps it is the abundance of underdog stories in movies that followed in Rocky's footsteps that have cheapened the value of when the underdog overcomes the more fancied opponent in real life.
unstoppableExodia The concept may predate it, but you'll be hard-pressed to name a SPORTS underdog movie before Rocky. (Okay, so The Bad News Bears technically came out earlier the same year.)
sirbruce1970
This is true, looking on google for underdog sports movies made before 1976 yields very little. I am sure there have been at least some underdog sports movies made before Rocky like maybe some forgotten movie from the black and white era or the silent era. But there can be no denying that phenomenal success of Rocky kicked off a boom in this particular sub genre that continues to persist. To the extent that the formula is in danger of becoming cliche if it has not already become cliche.
unstoppableExodia I dont think David counts as an underdog story. he had the backing of God. the only god in the story. if anything goliath was so outgunned he was just a poor soldier being ordered to take a sword into a God fight. poor guy never stood a chance.
Grim L
nah the having god on his side didn't make David the goliath in that story. Goliath was the odds on favourite, the reining champ. The way I see it David having god on his side is much the same as how one could say Rocky has god on his side.
It's like god is this all powerful character that is all goody good but he rarely uses that power and is conveniently all about letting bad shit happen and letting people figure things out for themselves. God didn't put a slingshot into Dave's hand and tell him what he should do with it. If god were to strike goliath with a massive lightning bolt it would be game, set and match. And it would send the message "mess with my homeys and shit's gonna go down, yo" - but god did not, he left it for David to work out a way not to get kerb stomped.
unstoppableExodia ok but Rocky didnt get a weapon? so the moral is if some one is bigger than you get a weapon.
also Rocky didnt later sleep with pollys wife and than have him killed so he didnt have to deal with the drama.
Jingo Jism... fucking brilliant.
Rocky gave short Italians delusional self belief in their fighting abilities.
Don't know if I agree with most of this but I do agree with too things
1. The training montage is bad. Sure it is okay once or twice but it got overused big time.
2. There are too many movies that make the guy who trained for years and earned his skills the bad guy. Seriously why all the underdog movies? I know there are at least some movies not like this but most always have the guy who can't do [blank] training for maybe a few months and winning in the end.
Sure it's a decent formula and makes a decent movie but that doesn't mean every movie has to use the exact same formula.
Because we see ourselves in the underdog which makes you like him unconditionally
Ding! This round is over. And I feel like Daniel brought the best arguments here. He almost single-handedly destroye the Rocky-franchise with just a few sentences. Well done, Daniel!
Daniel: 12
Soren: 9
Katie: 8
Michael: 10
"rocky made training look easy."???? Micky talks about how hard you have to train for a very LONG TIME." to train for a 10 round fight takes 10,000 minutes. That's 10 weeks. That's 10 hours a day." Sure. Easy.
You need years of training under a good coach to even get to a level where you can start boxing in the lower title regions. There are countless others who train just as hard and still fail. So yeah, the training montage oversimplifies things because watching somebody train for ages would be fkin boring.
silentlamb21
But, Rocky wasn't starting from scratch. he had been a boxer for over a decade. He needed polishing to bring his " ham n egger" skills , and natural durability, up to a level where he stood a chance against a champ, who wasn't even taking the fight seriously.
Dave Robson rocky is literally known for glorifying training. Hypes it up with rising music and visible improvement in mere minutes. Of course it makes it look easy, it makes the gruelling the tedious, the painful, the boring repetitious act that is training fun to watch
This is actually pretty funny, and makes a lot of sense. Still love these and Disney movies, and their lessons though. :P
Except they get it wrong.
OBJECITON!!!!
Rockey lost to Apollo in the first film.
Rockey barely won against Apollo iin the second film Making Rockey and Apollo equals regardless of race.
Rockey beat Clubber in the second film only cause Apollo was training him, working together.
Rockey beat Ivan not on from nationalism, but because he wanted to avenge Apollo's death.
If anything, the Rockey series is an anti-racism movie series.
and rocky had been trying to learn how to box since long before the film started the montage just showed him improving through hard training until the day of the fight while Apollo was over confident going in to the fight they simply chose rocky because he had a cool name
Yeah, it's like they didn't even saw the movies. Even Mick said that he already had the talent, he wasn't a "clueless moron" he didn't magically became good in a few months, in the first film he says he's been going to Mick's Gym for 6 years.
Plus this stupid argument about the movie making an attempt to "show that white people can be good at stuff like black people" is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Not on the Rocky films. Rocky ain't even what some would consider "White". He's a poor italian.
True, Italians have not always been considered white people. In which case the minority, Rocky, is defeating the white guy (Russian). It's all a matter of perspective really.
not fully true. the 80s marked the point when "white people" finally started forming a "bloc", including italians, irish, etc, as whites.
in what world are italians not "white"? :> what do you think americans are made of? Germans, irish, italian, hispanic etc.
Daniel: Can I get a burrito that looks like a mouth?
* Gets bowl of oatmeal w/blueberries *
You sure they were blueberries? I hear that this restaurant puts raisins in everything.
rocky 1 is a masterpiece and is rocky 5 totally underrated however rocky balboa is an excellent fipm
i literally just got the jingo-jism joke
I like this show because it reminds me of all of the rare, deep, meaningful, and analytic conversations I've ever had in my ENTIRE life. Which is like 5 different times...
Never heard of cracked before, and now I'm subscribed.
RIP Carl Weathers
Yeah...sorry, Katie, but black musicians and athletes were popular way before the 80's. Bill Russell, Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Arthur Ashe, Cassius Clay (Ali), Willie Mays, Jackie Robinson, The Temptations, Chuck Berry, the invention of rock and roll, Motown, jazz, blues...I could go on forever. These were all things that occurred by the 1960's. Huge things. Pun not intended.
+frozenaorta Her timing was a little off, but it's still a fair point. In the old days, black athletes played in their own leagues and white people only watched the white leagues, black recording artists were mostly heard on black radio stations, very few were played on white stations - even in the '80s, Michael Jackson was the first black artist to have music videos on MTV, they were a white-only station when they started. Despite plenty of black artists having music videos and recorded performances, they weren't as visible to the majority.
By the 1980s, integration had only been going on for a short time, well within everyone's memory, and black athletes and musicians were dominating things white people (most of whom still thought they were the "superior race", we had a KKK leader run for president of the U.S. in the '80s, after all) thought they were the masters and/or inventors of. The '80s were kind of an uptight, self-reflective, and insecure time anyway for white guys, who had also been called out by the mostly white middle-class Women's Liberation movement in the '70s. Katie's point about '80s sports movies trying to symbolically reclaim Sports for white guys is pretty well-substantiated honestly.
Eddie Murphy even did a bit about Rocky in one of his old stand-up comedy specials in the '80s, pointing out how white people needed to have the boxing champion be a white guy. That's the only example of someone on the subject at the time that I can think of, but it was certainly a familiar attitude at the time. I had never noticed it in Teen Wolf, but just like she says, he gets good at the stereotypical things white guys at the time felt inadequate about, and learns the "valuable lesson" that those things are actually worthless.
I doubt in any case any writers were attempting to do something racist. I think Rocky's relationship with Apollo Creed was intended to be anti-racist. But it's interesting to re-examine it from a more modern perspective, when racism is no longer as simple as it was then... back when it was "I hate black people and I don't care if they die and if they don't like it they should go back to Africa" - which is basically the kind of thing I remember white people saying about black people when I was a kid.
@@jessicalee333 It's hard to credit now, but Herbie Hancock's video for Rockit was all dancing robots because Godley and Creme didn't think a video with a black star would get shown on MTV.
I don't know if Rocky actually created the training montage, there were a lot of them in the Shaolin movies of the 70's.
for once, he actually got on to something and won an argument undisputedly ...
Lol everything about the "training montage" & people "Good at stuff" is accurate as shitt..
4:07 the same reaction i had lol
That feeling when you get a skip ad instead of a long ad on a RUclips video.
I miss after hours. I remember finding this and being so excited. I've gone through all of these like 3 or 4 times.
You're totally wrong about the montage!!! It's not just about a short training period anyone can do reduced down to a soundtrack. It's about quality training over quantity. It's water downed California Karate vs Okinawan Karate from the Miyagi lineage. It's Mickey's decades and decades of boxing and training knowledge with Apollo's hunger vs Russian equipment and steroids. It's quality over quantity.
yeah 2 months is not going to do shit against someone that has trained and pro-boxed for years.
Not to mention that the "quality" of the trainings in these montages are mostly horrible. Just things to make the montage look more interesting.
***** But in this example "Rocky" has far more professional experience then "Ivan Drago".
Semper Fi Of course. But the training to go against Ivan Drago, is really ridicules. Look at the montage of it. The movie itself is kinda fucked up. Then again I am just a big fan of rocky 1. It showing yeah he did not won. but he gave it his all and move forward the best he could. And became a legend for what he did.
***** But is it really that far of a reach to believe an accomplished Champion could stand toe to toe with a roid freak with no real "A" lister's under his belt? I totally agree with you, Rocky 1 was a great story and life lesson of sorts. Like Rambo 1. After that they get more and more fictional and ridiculous.
As far as becoming a legend? No one remembers Chuck Wepner, the character Stallone based Rocky off of. He finally won his settlement and now gets restitutions.
Well I meant him becoming a legend in that in-universe thing. Not in reality. And you are right I forgot about Chuck Wepner all the time until I am reminded of him. How much did he win in his settlement finally? was it decent enough?
Rocky 6 is a good movie actually...
Yeah rocky balboa was a decent film and I don't understand why people bitch about rocky V either.
nelson gibson Well I personally think Rocky V is a piece of shit film. But, I did actually enjoy Rocky Balboa. The acting, cinematography, and writing were good enough in my opinion to overcome the unrealistic plot.
Rocky Balboa was a great movie, "It's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." I just wish it told us how Adrian had died rather than starting off with her being dead and no explanation.
Gary L
I believe she died of cancer but you're right I don't think they mentioned that in the beginning of the film.
IrishColin94 ya, Rocky Balboa is by leaps and bounds the best "make a sequel after two decades for no reason" film ever
When Soren spat out his water, I started laughing like crazy and that's when my sister walked past my open bedroom door spat out her water while watching funny vines
Uhh, Rocky LOST in the first Rocky film.
Rocky II came out in 1979 when Muhammed Ali had all but completely retired. By the 1980's Ali was into his 40's, he'd been boxing for 2 decades, he had been the absolute champion but people are mortal.
He didn't fucking lose! It's called tko or technical knockout. The judges were probably just racist that an Italian could box at this time
Komortas The term technical knockout MEANS a loss.
What... do you SERIOUSLY think every boxing match must be settled by beating the other into a severe concussion?
And white judges in 1970's racists against the Italian in favour of the Black dude?
"favor" and yup
Komortas British people don't change their spelling just because they are speaking to an American.
If either had to change their spelling, why me and not you?
FYI, I did make a spelling error, it was "sever" which I've now corrected.
fair enough. i respect the british
DO DOCTOR WHO!
Training is easy if you set your mind to it and JUST DO IT!!!!
+Alan Munguia DON'T LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS!!!!
+Alan Munguia Shut up Shia! *drinks more rum*
+Alan Munguia no its not.
+I spent 6 hours trying to figure out my username
Yes you can!! Other people dream of success while you're gonna work hard at it!! Nothing is impossible!!!
***** no, i physically cant, trust me, dont bother wasting your time with me,
Rocky was never bad at boxing. He never got his shot. Heart not skill is what won Rocky his fights in every movie.
So are we just going to not talk about how Soarin has a picture of Rocky and Apollo bicep bonding on his person at all times?
So many people taking this WAY too seriously.
White people lmao
@@qwertyzxcvbn3174 RACIST!
While I especially agree with the montage discussion, I do have some criticism about the Rocky IV/America Wins portion of the discussion.
The reality is, Rocky IV is a lot more complex than people give it credit for. Yes we see Stallone in USA boxing shorts take down the USSR Juggernaut ... but you have to look at how the movie gets to that point.
Leading up to and including the first match between Apollo and Drago, Rocky does not share Apollo's jingoistic attitude - he's pretty much embarrassed. And let's not forget what happens to the overconfident American - he is killed. Why? Because it takes more than confidence and belief in yourself to win.
And then we get to the training montage before the second fight. Rocky trains in the rural Soviet Union using farm implements and running through snow. He represents the industriousness of the working class. While I'm not going to go so far as to say he represents a Marxist ideal (he beats Drago into asserting his individuality), he is trying to show that he is one of them just as much as much as he is an American.
On a more tangent topic, if the juggernaut represents methodical stereotypical socialism then the whole movie is just an american jerk off. Rocky clearly represents the american dream, so him kicking the shit out of the Russian represents America being the top dog in the world. The whole movie is just essentially the american ideals playing out and at the end they are proven to be the greatest. Take Rocky 4 as an example. The american ideals, hard work, justice, equality have their own characters and events. Hard work is in the training segment, equality is revenge for the overly confident american being killed, and equality in the entire character of Rocky's black friend (whose name escapes me). It's not racist against blacks, it's racism against unamericans. It's saying that if you don't hold the american ideals then we will (and should) beat the hell out of you.
how do you forget the coolest name ever. Apollo Creed
rockitude129 I get what you're saying but we must live in two completely different Americas. but I definitely get your thought progress.
I understand your point, but when compared to the weight of the jingoist and antisoviet symbolism, this almost seems like a carrot thrown to liberal patriots or rocky fans to make them feel less uncomfortable with the story arc. But ultimately the propaganda points to Katies point, just in sheer volume. Like, american flag shorts and soviet juggernaut and russians cheering for rocket outweigh earlier attitudes and setpieces
FINALLY more after hours!!! only reason i subscribed that shit is hilarious
I love all that you do and will continue to come back and watch these again and again. That being said I fundamentally disagree with everything Soren was arguing with Rocky. How dare you sir, you broke my heart.
Her rant about black people "Being better" at things like sports and sex and social interaction is actually the most racist thing I heard in the (fake) discussion in this whole video in my opinion, I'm surprised they didnt bring it up, competent writers like themselves should have the wordscraft skill enough to make a joke about it.
Mostly agree with Michael, Rocky isn't about race, it's an underdog story. We root for Rocky not because he's white but because he represents the majority of the people watching the movies. He always is the Underdog (except Rocky II kinda) and we always want the Underdog to win. Apollo is definitely a reference to Ali because he is the greatest Boxer of all time. We still wanted Rocky to win because nobody thought he could, and we saw ourselves in him, not because he is white. Clubber Lang is just supposed to represent a big brutish boxer who could kill you in the ring, and Drago is supposed to represent the "robotic" and manufactured result, not working hard. In short, Rocky=G.o.A.T.
Yeah he did say that. Black or white, we're all disadvantaged by the underdog simply because we are objectively good at it. People find that boring rather than inspiring and instead want to be inspired by the a-hole teams who are actually bad, but 2 training montages later, they are good enough to beat the team that has won championships since its conception. what?!!
Jengus Roundstone Drago was like a machine but, didn’t lose because he didn’t work hard. The message was that his lack of heart was his down fall. If you saw the training montage, rocky was working hard with much less resources while drago was working hard with all the resources in the world. Yet rocky came out on top, so the problem with drago was that he didn’t have rocky’s heart.
Cracked is right though. A sterilized version of Ali, one of the greatest black athletes of all times, who is changed from anti-war protested into a "Patriot" teaches a white dude with no skills the art of boxing almost overnight, diminishing Ali's talent and hard work in a big way. Being great at boxing takes many years and many, many rounds in the ring. This is a movie equivalent of a white dude coming up with "I had a dream" speech on a bar napkin while taking a dump in a dive bar.
I love these so much
I seriously don't know how cracked doesn't have over a million subscribers by now their videos are great and their topics are always interesting
"Everything is sexist, everything is racist, and it's up to YOU to point it out." These guys would make Anita Sarkeesian proud just based on video titles.
The difference is that these videos don't expect you to take it seriously.
I understand the logic behind these arguments, in context of the societal relationship of the 80's that impacted movies and vice versa, but I still don't find Rocky racist. To me, all I see when watching is an underdog story about a low-class down on his luck club fighter who gets a chance to become something more by starting from the bottom and working his butt off to reach new heights. Also, while I get many people's criticisms of the "montage tactic", I actually find it a clever way to emphasize the struggle and excitement of preparing for something while saving on time (This is a movie after all, it would take hours to show everything).
I agree that it is overused in movies these days, but for its time, the Rocky version still holds up as a pretty cool exercise motivator. The character of Rocky himself is also inspiring in proving that even those with no initial talent can succeed if they work hard enough. I like to think that everyone started out that way at some point in life, even those we call "natural prodigies". Even if some gravitate toward certain activities faster than others, it still takes effort to become an expert or champion. On a side note, I can honestly say I never thought of werewolves being used in a connection to black people until after watching this. Go figure... -_-
+Keith Harris The problem in not finding Rocky racist is a simple one; you aren't reverse racist. People overcorrect so much when they are afraid that something might be racist that they end up becoming racist in the opposite way, & miss the point that being tolerant of all races means not getting upset every time something can vaguely be construed as offensive to one or more races. The werewolf example you give is perfect, outlining how an average person would never consider being a werewolf in high school racist in any conceivable sense of a way, until told otherwise by people who see racism as both a black-and-white issue & a complex conspiracy.
+Sean Madson never seen teenwolf so I can't talk about that but they have a great point about Apollo Creed representing Mohammed Ali.
Rpp Wing agreed, some movies clearly intend these interpretations, just not all of them
@@seanmadson8524 no
@@AlephYobby ...yes?
I would have to agree with Michael on the training thing. In Death Note vs. Code Geass. Lelouch didn't know anything about the Geass, but Light Yagami knew EVERYTHING about the Death Note, and Lelouch was still able to take over the world faster than Light Yagami.
Light Yagami That isn't remotely close to true. Yagami had to do tons of painstaking experimentation with the added pressure of the world's greatest detective, a man possibly smarter than Yagami himself, breathing down his neck and no help from his Shiinigami. Not to mention working with a tool with enormous amounts of restrictions on it. Whereas Lelouch was working with a tool with only one real restriction and had tons of help from Cee Two.
italu Lets also throw out the fact that lelouch had a terrorist organization under his thumb that he could easily use by doning the zero persona, while light only had a police task force that was suspicious of him anyway and used light to either incriminate someone to be kira or incriminate himself to being kira.
Alpha Man Very good point.
Light Yagami Is Geass set in Europe? I haven't seen very many anime.
QuikVidGuy I think so.
This is why Daniel's favorite superhero is Spider-Man. Spidey faces villains who, for the most part, gained their powers through hard work, effort, natural brain smarts, and years of designing and building the mecha-suits and other scientific experiments that made them into Doc Ock, the Green Goblin, the Vulture, the Lizard, and so forth. Peter Parker, meanwhile, was a scrawny nothing-kid who got bit one day and suddenly had everything he needed to defeat all the bullies. Pure wish fulfillment.
JaiFlame In some versions of the comics, and in the "beloved" Sam Raimi movies, Peter's webbing comes straight from his wrists. One more reason I prefer TASM. Spider powers, though? Gets 'em the "easy way" in every story, which is the point this video makes about the "easy way" to getting good versus the "actual way".
Did you ever read "Matilda"? Spoiler alert, it's about a little girl who can do amazing things with her mind, until her mind is given challenges commensurate with her skill level. The point is to not write a story where the hero takes on a challenge "too big" for him and wins anyway. The phrase "David vs. Goliath" gets thrown around a lot, but that's not what we're talking about, because David didn't win the fight by gaining superpowers or by training up until he could fight Goliath on his own terms. He won because he applied the powers he already had (namely his smarts and his skill with a slingshot).
If Spider-Man were that kind of comic, then Peter Parker would never have been bitten by a spider. He would just be a teenage version of Batman. There's your "straight A student" whom everyone cheers because he put the work into developing his superhero status.
Rocky 5, 6 never happened!!! Okay?!?!
What about Creed and Creed 2?
The only thing I agree with is the "Training Montague thing".
Really? I thought the training Capulet was better.
A pox on both your Rocky's!
I bite my thumb at all of you.
this gets sooo off topic... i love it
Would like to mention, the person that the Rocky series is based off of was a nationally ranked boxer when he fought the champ
Yes! Yes! Yes!
But how come you guys didn't mention T? You should do an episode on the co-opting and necessary infantilization of Mr. T. First Stallone has him as a threatening, intimidating image of black power for the sole purpose of having Apollo Creed teach Rocky McWhiterson how to beat the brother's ass (once success has made him bloated and slow). (Oh, you black people. Material deprivation keeps you lean and mean. You don't want wealth. You won't be able to handle it.) Then T gets his gig on Th A-Team where he's supposed to be their badass muscle. (And say what you want. We all understood that the "B.A." in "B.A. Baracus" stood for "Bad Ass." And what do they do? They make him cartoonishly afraid of heights. This means that not only do we get to constantly laugh at how easily Baracus is duped into flying, if you think about it, he's actually less functional than the psychologically disturbed Murdock. Don't forget that people keep calling Mr. T.'s haircut a "mohawk" (which makes it the easily dimissable fad of suburban white teens in almost childish rebellion) rather than as what it is -- the hairstyle worn by mandinka warriors! Finally, T.'s diminishing is completed by having him turned into an actual cartoon for his Saturday morning TV show. It's like the whole point of the man was to have the kind of revolutionary Black Power energy of the 70s defused as something childish.
Yes they are wrong
Rocky was Italian not white..
The first Rocky movie isn't overrated! Go read a book.
These guys at Cracked are so witty. I wish I could hang out with them for a weekend.
I fear I would come back with a hernia from all the laughing.... it'd be worth it.
keep making these I need more after hours crack ed!
"...that black people are good at" is racist.
Taking a line out of context to make it sound vaguely racist just proves you have no point, and you're blatantly racist.
Katie's sentence about black athletes and musicians beginning to succeed in the 80s is galactically stupid. So, there were no successful black athletes and musicians in the 70s? 60s? Stupidly bad "point."
+Yesspaz Smith Wasn't Hendrix, widely considered to be the best guitarist ever, in the 70s
Jazz guys in the 20s. Soul, rock, etc. in the 60s. Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell, athletes too numerous to mention. Point is, it's a terrible "point."
loving these debates
the start of them are genius, normal discussion then someone says something, boom video starts
I think this is my favorite after hours. Seven years later and I'm still watching this one!
"The first one is decent, but overrated". Yeah, all credibility went out the door as soon as you said that.
exactly what I was thinking good sir
666deadman1988 Pretty sure it was a joke!
Naughty Cock & The Wild Dogs One does not even joke about such things.
Well, I agree that it's overrated and shouldn't have one best movie vs the untouchables and taxi driver. That doesn't mean it's not a good movie. That also doesn't mean that you can not like it more than I do.
watching this video is like watching the episode of secular talk, 'Modern Art' Fans Fooled By A Pair Of Glasses, theyre looking so hard for stuff that simply isn't there
Actually, while they didn't exactly nail it, their point about Rocky was almost spot on (racist or not, that's up to each person since that's pretty much personal interpretation).
Rocky wasn't a Muhammad Ali made white, Rocky was Stallone's fan fiction about the Chuck Wepner vs Muhammad Ali fight, that's why he still loses by the end, but by Rocky II it goes full fan fic and Rocky (Wepner) beats Apollo (Ali).
Weez naz fr
That's the whole point of after hours. Deconstructing something past the point of reason in order to maybe pick out a few plausible points form it.
Love After Hours! Keep them coming!
Easily one of the best video imo ever
ITs not like Rocky was terrible at boxing before he did his training montage.
No, but he was a "palooka".
His record was 44-20 at the club level before the first Creed fight. That is pretty bad for someone who would go on to become a two-time heavyweight champion.
Rocky is not racist, sure it's pro America but after he beats the Russian he delivers a speech about changing and unifying. And if you noticed rocky and Apollo best friends black and white happy together
+Manek Iridius I'm not fully sure what your question is but, America is very very diverse rn with the candidates for president and the conflicts going on, it could be mistaken that the country is kinda rejecting other countries. In truth since America has been taking in immigrants for so long the country is getting crowded and now with threats of terrorism we are limiting accepting immigrants. Some of the ppl in America suck but there are a lot of us that are open to culture and diversity. We are known for a melting pot Bc once a person of different culture comes to the U.S they are free to be what ever they want but over time the culture starts to Americanize. So yes we are not really a salad like Canada it's more like putting fruit in a blender. If your Italian you become Italian American, if your Russian you become Russian American. And so on and so forth
This was amazingly insightful
6:21 the cobra kai Netflix show “kids punching in padded rooms” 😂😂😂
I’m not really sure what the takeaway is supposed to be here...I enjoyed the rocky movies as a kid. They made me want to go out and exercise. The only thing I learned was the importance of pushing yourself harder when you want to give up
This is ridiculous on so many levels. The first two rocky movies center around an Italian household. Not a middle class American, not someone that can go around holding their nose up to people. A poor Italian household. It's about looking for meaning in life, and overcoming adversity. It's an underdog story. It's disgusting what people will say for clicks on their channel.
+TheSnowshow33 This channel is supposed to be ridiculous.
I miss this show so much. :'(
wish i could give a million likes. I miss it too.
Underdog stories *always* work because _most_ people are not the best at what they do. So stories about a scrappy upstart will always have the larger audience because we want to _be_ Rocky in our own life.
Rocky might not be the "best" boxer, but his strength is that he never gives up. Just like Apollo said: "I won, but I didn't _beat_ him!"
"Tha- How is that anything other than beautiful??"
I love Soren, my thoughts exactly.
I've been watching a lot of these videos and Rocky is one of my favorites I've seen every film like 20 times. So when you don't really know the subject you're kind of fooled into thinking they know a lot.
But when you actually know what they're talking about, you realize that they are not even really that funny. They are just saying the most on the surface obvious things.
All this is bullshit kind of. They defended their points pretty badly. I'm sorry guys. I'm gonna go watch the saved by the bell one again. I don't know that much about that show and that was funny to me.
"When they poke fun at things I like, I don't like it."
DisplacedTitan For example, they say Creed taught Rocky the rope a dope which was then used to beat clubber lang and take muhammed ali's big moment to give it to Rocky.
However Creed did not teach Rocky the rope a dope. He taught him how to fight like him, quick, fast, jabs, orthodox, etc.
Proof can be seen of this by the end of the second round in Rocky 3, after Rocky is beaten up terribly.
"What the hell are you doing, what the hell are you doing? It doesn't take a man to stand there and get his head beat in!" Creed said.
"He's gettin' tired, he's gettin' tired" Rocky replied.
Clubber's trainer says "don't go wastin' your punches! Use your head!"
Thus, Rocky actually was using the rope a dope on his own. It was against Creed's training method, which was to dodge, jab, etc. Creed never used or condoned the use of rope a dope.
Man I miss this!
just watched all the rocky movies so I decided to rewatch this cracked now.