>the character with the best limits is Tifa Not even close since she has two huge things going against her... 1. her limit charge requirements are higher than everyone else's (she has to take about 50% more damage than most other characters at similar levels) 2. When you hit 9999, anything over that is waste. By the time you get her level 4 limit, you probably aren't far from hitting the cap with a moderately amped attack. And two one things... 1. Her limits can also miss outright (and if you go for YEAH you are more likely to do so) So what you end up with in the long term is a character who takes nearly twice as long to get a limit break that does significantly less damage than Barret sticking to a level 3 limit. The limit gauge issue can be mitigated with mime, but once your bring mime into the picture you are *definitely* wasting a lot of her damage due to the cap. In the end, she fairs better than a lot of other characters if you strictly compare level 4s, but a lot of characters have better level 3s than her level 4 and some characters even have better level 2s than her level 4 (namely Yuffie and Red).
Thanks you for the comment. While I agree with you on all points to some degree for most parts of the game she will have among the strongest limit breaks. I have published a second part of my analysis of limit breaks where I take a lot of these things you mention into account. 1. She does not require 50 % more HP lost for all levels. At level 1 she has the lowest HP lost to Limit use (3-28 % of Max HP lower than the others). At level 2 she needs to lose roughly 10 % more than most characters, except for Barret (30%), Vincent (30%) Cait Sith (50%). At level 3 the difference is the greatest where she needs to lose 25-45 % more of max HP compared to other character with damage dealing limits. At level 4 it's 19-46 % more of max HP compared to other character with damage dealing limits. When it comes to effectiveness per HP lost a 2xYEAH Somersault is the most HP efficient limit for most parts of the game unless you have Omnislash. 2. Yes, but you don't actually reach that cap for most parts of the game. But as you say when you approach the damage cap whe usefulness of her limits will definitely drop off compared to the other characters. 3. Yes, going for more YEAH than you can reliably get will make her a lot less effective since misses will happen. Personally I usually just go for 2-4 YEAH but even with just those she still has the highest multiplier for all levels except level 4. But as you mentioned above she does require the most HP to use her limits for most limit levels. 4. Yes, when you reach the end of the game but I personally don't only consider the end of the game in this comparison. I personally don't consider neither Bloodfest nor Startdust Ray better than Final Heaven until you approach maximum strength and you might even need to use Hero Drinks for them to be better.
I find that limit breaks matter most in the earliest part of the game before you have access to good magic and enemy skills and in the very late parts of the game when normal attacks start to consistently do more damage than most inexpensive magic (at which point it gets very easy to hit the damage cap frequently). At every other point you have access to enemy skills and magic that outclass your limit breaks for the most part. Talking about sticking with level 1 limits also seems a bit silly since that prevents you from leveling her limit and it reduces the value a limit has over something like beta or magic breath. Tifa has always seemed more useful to me for having some broken equipment combos (powersoul + death sentence) than for her limit breaks (which in addition to requiring you to use the annoying slot machine also can't be targeted).
For sure. I also like to do challenge runs and in those that can be really helpful. Those are very good points, but then the main use for them is like in a pinch or to squeeze out some extra damage in a boss battle and then saving them and using them when needed is better making the point on charge time kind of pointless. But I do agree with you that there are other options that can deal equal or greater damage for most parts of the game. In the video, I'm only comparing the damage multipliers and not taking into consideration other aspects as that would've made the video too long. Yes, i agree that is when she shines, and that is something you can take advantage of when you know the game well. But if you aren't as familiar with the game, then it's not obvious how to use those weapons from the in-game info. This is just a basic description and comparison of the limits
My fave way to gain the second limit of each tier is to find the valron enemy outside nibelhiem. It has a dive kick attack thats gravity based and it fills the bar up quite well. So you can manipulate it and then cast mini on the character you need to use the limit breaks, that way they only deal 1 damage 😂. You can the spam as many as you need.
Yeah, that is an awesome place for learning the second limits. It's my favourite as well! I didn't think of it at the time I was making the video, but I could've added some good grinding spots for limits. 😊
Another factor for limits to consider is the 7777. I went into the emerald weapon battle with everyone limit full all with 7777. Limits override turn ordee. He only got 2 attacks in before i defeated him
That's a fair point, it is pretty rare for that to happen unless you plan for it in one way or another but if you fo and manage it certainly does affect it.
Slerran! I remember leaving comments on one of your FFVII challenge runs (my first comment was saying you have a good voice for ASMR lmao) This was a great watch. Are you into FFVI as well?
Hey, yeah, I remember those comments, I didn't even know what ASMR was at that time 😅 Thanks! I've played FF6 several times, but I have never gotten into challenge runs in that one. It is a great game, but since I'm from Europe, it wasn't available to me until the PS1 version except for emulation, so I played 7 first
I really enjoyed this one. I remember never using mindblow becuase I thought It didnt do anything. Anyway I think you should do a morph guide thing similar to your steal guide
Thanks, mate! Same for me, I never really used Mind Blow because it didn't seem to do anything. I think that might be because it's gravity based damage, which most bosses are immune to. Morph could be an interesting one to look into, I will keep it in mind 👍
@@Slerran I'm a little confused by when you said that the ultimate weapons damage multipliers don't effect limit damage. I'm not saying thats not true but I can't say it's completely accurate either from my experience with the game. Due to the effect the ultimate weapons have it is very possible and even something you will experience many times or even all the time with Cloud and Cait Sith to have your damage drastically reduced if you don't meet the criteria for the positive damage multipliers for the weapons. (High HP/MP, Limit gauge, Enemy Level and materia experience I think are all of the effect multipliers) So do limits just ignore the positive multipliers of the weapons but still take into account the negative when formulating the damage?
@@gavtro2 That is actually how damage multipliers works for limit breaks. I just tested using Omnislash with Cloud and the Ultima Weapon at 200/6800 HP and at 6800/6800 HP and the damage output was the same in both cases which it shouldn't be if the multiplier of the Ultima Weapon was in effect. The multipliers from the weapons does however affect all other physical damage you do, which might be what you're remembering.
@@Slerran So I just tested it and yeah there was no difference in damage and I was shocked by it. I don't know what I was remembering, but whatever it was caused Cloud to do less damage and I guess I just put it down to the Ultima weapon. I haven't used Omnislash while having the Ultima Sword equipped because of this for years, how silly. Thanks for correcting me and more importantly, educating me on things I didn't know.
Hi. Question about Cait Sith's limit - if you roll the Death Joker, killing your party, does the Final Attack materia with Life or Phoenix still work...? You stated it was a guaranteed Game Over, so I was curious. Thanks!
Hey! I haven't tested this but I'm fairly certain final attack does not work. One reason is that it's not an attack from an enemy and attacks from allies usually aren't countered. I'll look in to it a bit later and get back to you!
@@theelvis654 Sorry for the late reply, some things got in the way and I just forgot to reply. Yes, Death Joker will kill you even if you have Final Attack - Phoenix / Revive equipped.
![[OVER]-Analysed - Limit Breaks in Final Fantasy 7](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PVGKN6xW6zI/mqdefault.jpg)
>the character with the best limits is Tifa
Not even close since she has two huge things going against her...
1. her limit charge requirements are higher than everyone else's (she has to take about 50% more damage than most other characters at similar levels)
2. When you hit 9999, anything over that is waste. By the time you get her level 4 limit, you probably aren't far from hitting the cap with a moderately amped attack.
And two one things...
1. Her limits can also miss outright (and if you go for YEAH you are more likely to do so)
So what you end up with in the long term is a character who takes nearly twice as long to get a limit break that does significantly less damage than Barret sticking to a level 3 limit. The limit gauge issue can be mitigated with mime, but once your bring mime into the picture you are *definitely* wasting a lot of her damage due to the cap.
In the end, she fairs better than a lot of other characters if you strictly compare level 4s, but a lot of characters have better level 3s than her level 4 and some characters even have better level 2s than her level 4 (namely Yuffie and Red).
Thanks you for the comment. While I agree with you on all points to some degree for most parts of the game she will have among the strongest limit breaks. I have published a second part of my analysis of limit breaks where I take a lot of these things you mention into account.
1. She does not require 50 % more HP lost for all levels.
At level 1 she has the lowest HP lost to Limit use (3-28 % of Max HP lower than the others).
At level 2 she needs to lose roughly 10 % more than most characters, except for Barret (30%), Vincent (30%) Cait Sith (50%).
At level 3 the difference is the greatest where she needs to lose 25-45 % more of max HP compared to other character with damage dealing limits.
At level 4 it's 19-46 % more of max HP compared to other character with damage dealing limits.
When it comes to effectiveness per HP lost a 2xYEAH Somersault is the most HP efficient limit for most parts of the game unless you have Omnislash.
2. Yes, but you don't actually reach that cap for most parts of the game. But as you say when you approach the damage cap whe usefulness of her limits will definitely drop off compared to the other characters.
3. Yes, going for more YEAH than you can reliably get will make her a lot less effective since misses will happen. Personally I usually just go for 2-4 YEAH but even with just those she still has the highest multiplier for all levels except level 4. But as you mentioned above she does require the most HP to use her limits for most limit levels.
4. Yes, when you reach the end of the game but I personally don't only consider the end of the game in this comparison. I personally don't consider neither Bloodfest nor Startdust Ray better than Final Heaven until you approach maximum strength and you might even need to use Hero Drinks for them to be better.
I find that limit breaks matter most in the earliest part of the game before you have access to good magic and enemy skills and in the very late parts of the game when normal attacks start to consistently do more damage than most inexpensive magic (at which point it gets very easy to hit the damage cap frequently). At every other point you have access to enemy skills and magic that outclass your limit breaks for the most part. Talking about sticking with level 1 limits also seems a bit silly since that prevents you from leveling her limit and it reduces the value a limit has over something like beta or magic breath.
Tifa has always seemed more useful to me for having some broken equipment combos (powersoul + death sentence) than for her limit breaks (which in addition to requiring you to use the annoying slot machine also can't be targeted).
For sure. I also like to do challenge runs and in those that can be really helpful.
Those are very good points, but then the main use for them is like in a pinch or to squeeze out some extra damage in a boss battle and then saving them and using them when needed is better making the point on charge time kind of pointless.
But I do agree with you that there are other options that can deal equal or greater damage for most parts of the game. In the video, I'm only comparing the damage multipliers and not taking into consideration other aspects as that would've made the video too long.
Yes, i agree that is when she shines, and that is something you can take advantage of when you know the game well. But if you aren't as familiar with the game, then it's not obvious how to use those weapons from the in-game info. This is just a basic description and comparison of the limits
REALLY GOOD WELL MADE VIDEO ❤️ TYSM!!!
Thanks mate! 😊
My fave way to gain the second limit of each tier is to find the valron enemy outside nibelhiem. It has a dive kick attack thats gravity based and it fills the bar up quite well.
So you can manipulate it and then cast mini on the character you need to use the limit breaks, that way they only deal 1 damage 😂. You can the spam as many as you need.
Yeah, that is an awesome place for learning the second limits. It's my favourite as well! I didn't think of it at the time I was making the video, but I could've added some good grinding spots for limits. 😊
@@Slerran Yeah the Forrest there is good for leveling too. There's the group of 6 mushrooms
Indeed, it's a great spot for killing lots of enemies. I like the forest outside junon as well, though it's only 5 enemies there 😊
@@Slerran I think Mythril Mines has the largest group size and obviously the enemies are weak by the time you'd do it.
Fair point, that's also a good place for it 😊
Another factor for limits to consider is the 7777. I went into the emerald weapon battle with everyone limit full all with 7777. Limits override turn ordee. He only got 2 attacks in before i defeated him
That's a fair point, it is pretty rare for that to happen unless you plan for it in one way or another but if you fo and manage it certainly does affect it.
Slerran! I remember leaving comments on one of your FFVII challenge runs (my first comment was saying you have a good voice for ASMR lmao)
This was a great watch. Are you into FFVI as well?
Hey, yeah, I remember those comments, I didn't even know what ASMR was at that time 😅
Thanks! I've played FF6 several times, but I have never gotten into challenge runs in that one. It is a great game, but since I'm from Europe, it wasn't available to me until the PS1 version except for emulation, so I played 7 first
I really enjoyed this one. I remember never using mindblow becuase I thought It didnt do anything. Anyway I think you should do a morph guide thing similar to your steal guide
Thanks, mate! Same for me, I never really used Mind Blow because it didn't seem to do anything. I think that might be because it's gravity based damage, which most bosses are immune to.
Morph could be an interesting one to look into, I will keep it in mind 👍
@@Slerran I'm a little confused by when you said that the ultimate weapons damage multipliers don't effect limit damage. I'm not saying thats not true but I can't say it's completely accurate either from my experience with the game. Due to the effect the ultimate weapons have it is very possible and even something you will experience many times or even all the time with Cloud and Cait Sith to have your damage drastically reduced if you don't meet the criteria for the positive damage multipliers for the weapons. (High HP/MP, Limit gauge, Enemy Level and materia experience I think are all of the effect multipliers) So do limits just ignore the positive multipliers of the weapons but still take into account the negative when formulating the damage?
@@gavtro2 That is actually how damage multipliers works for limit breaks. I just tested using Omnislash with Cloud and the Ultima Weapon at 200/6800 HP and at 6800/6800 HP and the damage output was the same in both cases which it shouldn't be if the multiplier of the Ultima Weapon was in effect. The multipliers from the weapons does however affect all other physical damage you do, which might be what you're remembering.
@@Slerran So I just tested it and yeah there was no difference in damage and I was shocked by it. I don't know what I was remembering, but whatever it was caused Cloud to do less damage and I guess I just put it down to the Ultima weapon. I haven't used Omnislash while having the Ultima Sword equipped because of this for years, how silly. Thanks for correcting me and more importantly, educating me on things I didn't know.
Yeah, sometimes one gets convinced something is true based on misconceptions. It's always nice to learn something new 👌
Hi. Question about Cait Sith's limit - if you roll the Death Joker, killing your party, does the Final Attack materia with Life or Phoenix still work...? You stated it was a guaranteed Game Over, so I was curious. Thanks!
Hey! I haven't tested this but I'm fairly certain final attack does not work. One reason is that it's not an attack from an enemy and attacks from allies usually aren't countered. I'll look in to it a bit later and get back to you!
Thanks for replying!@@Slerran
@@theelvis654 Sorry for the late reply, some things got in the way and I just forgot to reply.
Yes, Death Joker will kill you even if you have Final Attack - Phoenix / Revive equipped.
Oh great - thanks!@@Slerran
❤my favorite game
It's my favourite too. I have a few that are close but not quite all the way there 👌
YEAH!YEAH!YEAH!YEAH!YEAH!YEAH!YEAH!