If I had a dollar for every "my overambitious trauma-motivated first game will be the best game ever" crowdfunding, I'd have enough money to fund my own overambitious trauma-motivated game.
6:34 He is basically saying "I'd rather go out and walk toward the north right away than wasting time planning, preparing and getting equipment for north pole exploration."
A list of red flags: Opens with an appeal to emotion Survival RPG MMO No experience making games No experience with leadership Crowd funding on a platform with no consumer protections I agree that this man seems sincere, but i wouldn’t back this with money I found on the ground.
I have to disagree. I don't think he sounds sincere at all. This game was never going to happen, but I think the fact that he's using gofundme explicitly because it doesn't have the protections that kickstarter does pushes me over from 'naive idea guy' to 'cynical grifter'.
I'm not an architect, and I've never so much as nailed anything to a wooden plank, but I've decided to make the biggest building ever made by man. Me and a team of three people. Now give me money, no guarantee. Legit.
People who use personal trauma as an advertising tactic in their games always gives me a red flag, Dreamworld maybe gave me PTSD. If your game is truly influenced by trauma it will be seen in the stories you tell, not "boo hoo me, my loved ones are dead, give me money".
Yeah, this reminds me of myself at school or at a job that I hate, every excuse come out of the woodwork to be a blocker for why I couldn't get something done. This is the inverse, where the guy says all these blockers will be motivators... that is a horrible marketing tactic, Chief.
I feel the same. Most people if lives long enough has some tragic s*it in their past. I''d rather see compassion and love for games/gaming and the wish to create things that others can enjoy than listening to this guy hammering in a story about cancer and how he almost died. I wish I could make a game someday but I'd never aim so high as this guy. I'd definitely start on a smaller scale with a simple game. For one it would give more experience and you would have a base team to build upon later with other projects. A smaller game with a positive reception is way better than a huuuuge idea that will surely fail.
@@Argumemnon What?! Oh shit, NOOO! I'm so sorry. When's your game coming out?? I can't wait to play the greatest game ever made! Sigh... so much trauma, so little time to learn to program code. Are you crowd funding it too?
I study programming and development. I've got a bunch of little game projects under my belt. Making games is h_a_r_d. You have to get the failures out of your system, so that you can learn and do better. There is no skipping in that learning process. Start small, build up from that. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by starting your dream project first. Your first priority should be to build something doable. Then build five or ten more things. At some point you will be ready. Yes, you can try to circumvent this if you have the money to hire others to build your project for you, but besides then being dependant on others, this still requires its own skillset, such as project management, design, etc.
Video game development is awesome, but also probably one of the hardest creative arts. You have to do EVERYTHING. Programming, assets, game design, it just goes on and on. I'm one of the tons of people in this comment section who's had a game idea in my head for years but it's so hard man...
@@sickoslater Yeah, I also have an idea for the "best game ever" if I just had the talent and time to make it. But this guy is at least talking about hiring people, not expecting to miraculously do it all himself with no experience.
>You have to get the failures out of your system You will never run that well dry. I work on a game with some of the best minds in the industry and it's still more challenging than most people would believe. We are on hard mode though- a live service game that needs regular content to go out, so we are never done.
@@ARUCARDFTEPES Hiring people doesn't mitigate the need to understand all those things though. You could collect the greatest programmers, artists, designers and managers from all of the top game companies in the world, but if you aren't able to contribute anything for them to work with beyond saying "I want the best action-MMORPG-zombie game ever made", then there's no cohesion or direction and all that's happened is a lot of money and talent will be flushed down the toilet. You either have to bring knowledge of the industry or knowledge of how to run a business to make it work, simply being the "idea guy" with a pocket full of money is nowhere near enough.
I love when people day “it’s my calling” but have not actually done anything with their calling. If you like doing it you will have already done it to some extent. If your first task to answer your calling is to ask for money then you will fail. There is so much free software and tutorials you have no excuse to not have some tangible proof you really want to do a thing.
this is like messages that let's play RUclipsrs get...from people who want to make games but first want a promise that the RUclipsr will actually play it You should have enough passion to make it yourself.
I was homeless and got out of it myself. I want to make games someday. I'm not naive enough to think my getting through one adversity in any way translates to knowledge of game development; all it tells me is I can survive a shitty situation
I don’t get why people making games specifically hate the notion of finishing an okay game now instead of making the Magical Christmasland game that will never finish. In writing famously the advice for anyone who has a super mega book they want to devote their life to is put it down and write a bunch of books first, because the best and only experience for finishing your dream project is finishing orher projects first.
Exactly. There are video game developers large and small who have a couple of shit tier games under their belt along with their greatest works. But at least they have a history of completed games in the first place...
Because those type of people that shout from the Mt Tops that they are making the greatest game ever are almost always the same people with no idea what goes into a game to start with. They think it's easy. That with the right people at the wheel it would be easy for them to make a better game than those they play regularly. In Truth the world of game dev is one of a million failures for a couple successes. The only way to realistically start out is by making simple projects.
Also the fact that, in art, less is more. Some of those "small" games will secure their places in history as geniune pieces of art, and the mega corporations' "huge" projects will be lost to time.
I've been working on my game for 2.5 years. I havn't made kickstarter for it yet. I feel like people should not make kickstarters unless they have playable vertical slice of their game minimum.
@@damazywlodarczyk I think it would make sense. You can be pretty close to being finished with the game, but only have 20% of art done for the game. Art is super expensive to commission.
@@CodeRadGames the whole idea of kickstarter is about trust, that the creator will use money wisely in the future(most don't), so almost all projects get to kickstarter in infancy - it makes sense, even the name(kickstart) suggests that, in your case, it's very much developed(or should be), so it would be a little dishonest asking for money, when you already spend most of your money/work, art being expensive? you would have to prove that by showing contracts, but nobody does, thats why(among other things) crowdfunding is a bad idea, but mostly because it's not managed by someone above, and creators get awarded for products they didn't release yet, they get lazy and greedy, they steal money, im talking in general, not you
@@damazywlodarczyk I'm not saying someone should spend 2.5 years on game before going to kickstarter. But they should at least have vertical slice of the game ready. This can take few months. With vertical slice, people can try it and see if its worth investing so they can finish the game.
Step one anyone wanting to do an indie game should do is watch Jeff Volgel's GDC video. It may not cover everything and some might be out of date but the guy lays out 30 years of experience for free.
These sort of projects are like, "Hey, you should give me money to make my dream project, it's an intricate, 5-concept-album symphonic prog rock magnum opus, bigger than anything anyone's ever done" "Oh, sweet, what's your band called?" "Well, it's just me right now" "Oh. Then, can I listen to some of your songs somewhere?" "I haven't actually written any songs yet, but I've got a lot of really cool ideas" "I see.. well, what instruments do you play?" "I don't really have any experience playing music - Well, I know a few guitar chords. But I promise, this is going to be amazing" "Maybe you should just.. write one song first, before embarking on this project?" "Nope, it's this or nothing."
*The Alan Parsons Project enters the chat* 😂🎶😂 But seriously, best bet when folks have these huge ideas is to write them down - keep a notebook/Gdrive of all those crazy-huge thoughts, while you build the skills/exp. Then when you're ready to build bigger, you've got a plethora of notes/plans to pull from.
The way he talks about this project and how much it means to him, how excited he is really really is going to make when it fails hit all the harder assuming hes not just full of it out the gate. If you want to have a snowball's chance in hell of making a good MMO you need to out do, out create and out perform basically 5 or 6 juggernauts of the genre and that's not even talking about infrastructure requirements. This man is in for a rough time of hes actually being honest and not planning a scam.
I dont think he has to outdo, but certainly he has to work harder not bullshit his audience keep people informed and at least give it one hell of a try and people would stick with it. When things go bad is when there is no communication or when you start buying houses during production lol.
@@DaveS1969 that’s wrong. Trying hard won’t make a difference. This guy has zero dev experience and never wrote a line of code. If he was at all serious he would work as a game dev first for a while, or just make a game on his own first to gain some ability and make sure he wouldn’t be wasting anyone’s money.
MMOs are one of the hardest style of game to make from the outset. I really do wonder how much of his passion is fueled by the same "I could do this better" mentality that basically every gamer has when they play games.
@Lex Pullman yeah exactly. He has no experience in game design at all, which is the biggest reason why this is so sketchy. The idea of bringing a solid team together is sound in theory but the simple fact he has no experience in game design, project management, or even any basic knowledge in code and art means it's doomed from the outset.
In one sense I understand exactly what he is saying. Shortly after the pandemic I started losing my eyesight and was diagnosed with advanced glaucoma. When all other options were exhausted, I underwent emergency surgery to keep the eyesight I still had left and although this has been a life changing event for me (I can't do my job anymore and I can't drive) the surgery was successful and I have at least been allowed to keep the eyesight I still have. For all my life I have dreamed of being a novelist, but it took something like this to truly activate me and to chasing that goal. the difference is I'm not asking anyone for money. I'm the only one gambling on myself to be successful. I cannot help but be very suspicious when someone uses highly emotive rhetoric, as a means to secure funding from other people. while I wish him all the best and hope that he succeeds, it has to be about facts and figures. The logistics and the road map all have to make sense and everything needs to add up before you start taking other people's money. That's just my opinion.
There is a difference between writing a novel and building an rpg. Both require good writing and planning, but one also requires additional tech skills. Thats why his project is scammy.
I hate when hardships are used to raise money for games. I understand it's your story but like that doesn't have anything to do with game creation its a good story for when the game is completed not when it hasn't even begun.
When I went through gamedev courses in college, they really tried to hammer home one point; there are no "idea guys" in gamedev. Anyone can have an idea, pitch a dream game, hype up some grandiose plan for the best game ever, but they are not the people that make games. That's not to say there aren't planners, people that plan mechanics and write design documents, but 11 times out of 10, they're seasoned artists and programmers with the experience to do said designing.
Demone is an awesome guy. I really want to wish him well, but I wont be putting my money on that bet. This is a pipe dream. He needs to start small, MUCH smaller. Singleplayer game start to finish to get the process down would be huge for him.
I remember this guy from his Genshin Impact days. I think he's got the right intentions and I hope it does well but yeah, I would in no way help fund a video game. It's already "risky" af pre purchasing a game that looks perfectly fine pre release nowadays. No way in hell i'm gnna put money in it that's nowhere near completion. Especially if it's from someone who hasn't had much experience in game development.
There is this weird trend with people where they feel like they *have* to do something BIG or the BEST the first time, especially when it's something they've never done anything even close to before. It's a form of self sabotage and it's damned tragic. I've watched my brother waste 5 years of his life now chasing the dream of making an escape room that would be the BEST EVER from day one. That's not how anything works. You start small, you kludge something in your free time as a proof of concept, figure out what skills and tools you already have that can be used and what ones you have to learn/get, and then, after you have your first small success, you go bigger. But without that first test run, you're going to be blowing everything without even knowing what you need to get there. Its okay to start small. It's SMART to start small. If you start small, you can write off any failure as a learning experience and try again. But that's not the narrative that you see anywhere, because that doesn't make a good story. This dude could likely really pull off a good game if he was willing to do a small project first, but if he's just hyper focused on LEGACY and MAKING THE BEST THING EVER he'll never get anything done because it'll always be JUST out of reach.
Maybe social media is to blame. Many want to be that special unicorn. They want to look better than the next person, do better, live better, be remembered better. But most of them are irrelevant and will be forgotten. This guy probably too. But that's okay if you can come to terms with that. It's okay to be just another irrelevant thing in a universe of many irrelevant things. Not everyone is meant for great or even above-average things. All of us will die at some point and like 99% of us will be forgotten too eventually. That doesn't mean you cannot live a good life still, within limits and with some humbleness. Try and enjoy the here and now. There just are things out of your control, always will be.
@@Lenariet I think Social Media is just the latest wave. A lot of movies give the same narrative. But that does seem to really be the core of it. Everyone wants to be exceptional, but that's just not how anything works. I think the core of a lot of this can be seen in this dude's want of a legacy. How will you be remembered when you pass on? Hopefully as a pretty cool dude who was a great all around guy. Leave your legacy in the people that you touch. You don't need to make some groundbreaking mega awesome thing to do that.
this is bullshit, its amazing to have big ambitions, and when it hits, its amazing, even if it leads to failure it's great, there is so little ambition in video games right now, i would rather see a lot of failures, which end up as youtube videos than another mediocre game, because the dev thought small, no, i want groundbreaking shit and big visions, even if they fail, they could always start again, but the philosophy stays with them, if they're realistic, well, then we get this industry, which is mostly copycat/safe design
@@Lenariet it's like we're on different planets, everywhere i go on social media, i see mediocrity, i don't see people trying to be different, they fall into the algorithm, nothing wrong with that, but i rarely see exceptions, also you would like people to be humble in 21st century, on social media? this doesn't make any sense, they would have to stop using them all together
@@FranNyan sure if you want legacy, you can be an all around awesome guy, to your close family, and maybe few friends, but if you want to remembered by someone else besides them, you need to do something exceptional, like all legendary musicians did for example
People are delusional about how difficult game development actually is, I've been in the industry 4 years now and couldn't even imagine everything that would need to be done to make this guy's game
@@damazywlodarczyk It is difficult. People are just used to seeing cookie cutter games that abuse stock assets and forget that most of those games, despite being copy-pasta, were broken messes that were quickly abandoned.
@@SvendleBerries No, its not difficult making anything on a computer besides programming and hacking, i just started using sony vegas and people say it's difficult, and it takes me 5 minutes of watching a tutorial to resolve every issue with it. Same thing with game development. Costly, and time consuming, sure, but not difficult.
@@damazywlodarczyk the only person who would say something so naive and stupid is someone that actually has no real experience making games. The tutorials are just basic starting points and your claim that there is a tutorial for 'everything' is just factually incorrect. The tutorials don't come close to scratching the surface of the sheer amount of challenges and issues people need to overcome while building a full game.
@@damazywlodarczyk Of course it's difficult, that's why 99.99999999% of people can't do it. If it was easy, and all you needed was a few tutorials, why wouldn't people struggling along in unskilled minimum wage jobs just quit and make a game? It's easy! Granted the free resources out there nowadays are incredible but you still need some sort of aptitude for it to make use of it. Most people would barely be able to get their head around the concept of what a 'variable' is. If you are a programmer I'm not sure why you'd downplay your skills, and if you're not then you don't really know what you're talking about. I've made games for systems ranging from the Channel F, C64 and arcade hardware to smartphones and modern desktop games. Tutorials are handy for getting started and after 3-4 games on a platform certain things start getting 'easy' through experience, but there is always something new to learn and figure out that there most certainly is not a tutorial for. Even with my experience so far the thought of sitting down and planning out the architecture for an MMO, as the OP says, is mind-boggling. That's highly specialist and if you haven't done it before you're going to go down the wrong path a hundred times before you get it right. How much is it going to cost to get someone with that experience? And that's just the technical side of it, you need an equally skilled game designer to bring it altogether into something that's balanced and fun.
Sadest part of it all... He had the perfect pitch to launch a small rpg game... Heck with that story, most people would just give him money for a small project and not really cared all that much of the outcome. But he had to let a bit of hubris sneak in. And thusly fucked it up-
Steven Sharif said at the beginning of Ashes of Creation that it will only take 3 years (or something like that) and He had the money. Now we are in year 6 I think and we still have not played a proper Alpha (well we played alpha 1 but you know... Alpha 2 should be the one which we see the proper game ). Don't get me wrong, I hope that AoC will be a massive hit, and it will be finished in the next few years, but what I want to say is: Even if you have the money and the manpower, not everything will go as you want it to. And AoC is a better example... we also have Chronicles of Elyria... which is the bad example. :D
As someone with no short-term memory whatsoever who uses notes for everything - nah, that's not a problem. Plenty of red flags in here, but using notes no.
@@dondashall Needing notes to remember personal things about _yourself_ whilst trying to make a game like this IS a red flag. I have pretty severe memory problems too, need to write shit down all the time, I would never trust myself to do something like this as I damn well know I would never actually be able to do it. But then, maybe thats why this guy thinks he can succeed. Because he quickly forgets about his own limitations. Imagine having no legs but constantly trying to walk anyway because you forget you dont have legs.
@@SvendleBerries Not really. That's what notes are for. They're there so you DON'T have to remember everything in your head. The analogy is not appropriate. Being able to recite your pitch by heart does not inherently make it better.
@@SvendleBerries im sorry you are completely wrong. there are instances of recollection that you want to reference of your past and you don't remember the details. You couldn't tell me the date of when you filed taxes but if you check the tax return i.e. notes. you will see. Your logic is ridiculous at best. Dondashall is right.
I'm subbed to his channel and saw this when it dropped and it was showing all the red flags. His big announcement was 1 piece of art he made (Or rather the artist he hired made) and 1 piece he found, and you cant google his thing without his name in the search. If he could deliver what he says that would be awesome, but he also wants it to be completely community driven. Just a lot of conflicting ideas and nothing backing it for real other than passion.
For me one of the biggest red flag is that his vision of the "greatest game ever made" is exactly the same as SO MANY other scam "best game ever" games. I can't even count how many fantasy survival hard-core mmos have been used to scam people out of their money. You really can tell he *wants* this to work but I am left wondering how much of it is fueled by delusion and how much of that passion is genuine
He's trying to run a marathon when he hasn't learned to stand up without help. I do wish him well. But I am concerned about how delusional he is with his out of control scope. I know we don't live forever, but you MUST take your time and start small and take your time to build up your skill base, no matter what your end goal is. I almost died three times, drowning in a pool, developing an aggressive brain tumor and barely escaping adrenal failure. But I am taking my time to develop my skills, entering game jams, joining a writing group to work up to produce my small video game, to share with friends and family. And maybe if someone enjoys it, maybe I'll make another one for the intent to sell the next one. (I'm already a pixel artist so that part is a done deal. 😄)
When I started doing RPG Maker projects, I tried to make one where you collect monsters similar to Pokemon. Then I realized that was difficult so I did one where you could get up to 9 party members to swap between. Then I realized that was difficult so I made with 4 characters and focused on story and exploration. I think lots of people start with the most ambitious project and go simpler and simpler until theyw get something achievable, which is why I don't try to promote or kickstart stuff until I know I have something that I could do.
meh, if you're happy doing that then more power to you, but i don't think it's a lie about wanting to leave something behind, whether that's a child to carry on your family or something as small as planting a tree and seeing it grow throughout your life and leaving that there. it often helps people deal with facing death knowing that something they did will still be here continuing on.
"I rather fail using your money, than maybe succeed taking my time to develop skills and experience" And just like that all the empathy I had to this guy is gone.
Love Demone.. He's a good dude that went through a whole lotta shit. But yeah alarm bells are ringing. Personally, I have manic episodes sometimes which make me feel like God or the Universe gave me a purpose and like I can accomplish anything in the world. In these episodes I make way too many promises to people that I can never fulfill. The way he's talking reminds me alot of one of those episodes/
Kyra, I just want to say that you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs. Your voice, your honesty, your hard work ethic, your ethics in general, your humour etc.... Keep it up mate. I feel you have a nice loyal fan base now and I'm certainly one of them.
what honesty? there's no honesty, he's an asshole, he tries to convince people to not invest in some poor fuck's project with zero evidence, the project is probably bullshit but there's no way to tell, so this is extremely dishonest
@@BlueBeam10 how did you get gay vibes from this post 🤣🤣 you went looking for something and found nothing and that’s is what you come up with. Have a good day.
I’m making my first ”big” game and being a solo developer I can’t understand how you can want to ask for peoples money over something so ambitious without any way to show that others can trust you or that you wont abandon it. If I would ask for money for funding my project I would atleast want to show what I am capable of and what expectations people should have
This is SO freaking frustrating... like dude, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can create some sort of game design document that shows what your game actually is. I just reviewed this lady's game who is a financial advisor, and she managed to create an interactable spreadsheet with all the game's mechanics/economics already figured out (plus a document that shows what the game details would be) for her financial management game. Even then, she came to my team to ask for feedback BEFORE even asking anyone for money. Everybody has some story. Many people have been through insanely tough shit. You can't just use that as an excuse for why you are asking for HALF A MILLION DOLLARS with shit all to show for it. Sheesh man. /rant Anyways, thanks for trying to show folks the light Kira!!
The problem with these guys is step skipping. He needs experience. If he serious as a game designer he should have a desire to take the steps to actually succeed. Skipping steps is always a sign that you don't really want to do the actual work. He wants money, and this game seems like a bypass to wealth for him.
The most common misconception by people who've never been involved in running a business of _any_ size is _"money solves all problems, so if I get lots of money in I can work out the rest."_ Real life doesn't work like that unfortunately... while I feel for the guy, this sounds like someone saying they're qualified to manufacture the next electric car because they have a drivers licence. And as a migraine sufferer I can attest that there's nothing worse than pain _anywhere_ in your head, so I hope you feel better soon Kira! 💜
As a game dev, the hubris of people that never worked on a game, no matter how big, but instantly know better how to make one really rubs me the wrong way.
I've supported 3 crowdfunding efforts in my life. One boardgame which came out and exists, one videogame which came out and exists, and a friend who wanted to make a movie which he's in post-production with, so it's coming soonish. Supporting this would be sheer idiocy.
Now lets be fair, he could be a savant, and he could be hiring a full team behind this with decades of experience! While he revolutionizes the speaker market and giving his wife a fake wedding ring...wait sorry wrong game; as you were?
"I don't wanna make a little game..." this alone is a disqualifying statement. This is basically saying "I have no idea about game development and design, have no connection to reality and don't care about the money that will be deleted until I have to admit the project never had a chance in the first place."
I will never again buy early access or crowdfunding games doesn't matter how great they will look . Last time I purchased Distant Kingdoms and after some time developers abandoned this game, crazy thing is you can still purchase it on steam lol
"Best Fantasy Survival Action RPG" - He forgot a few buzzwords and marketing slogans like MMO or infinite or endless possibilites. Also playing New World and naming his game Other World. Big brain.
I've got my own gaming projects after a rough period in my life, but I'm trying to keep my ambitions realistic: A small GM supplement and a couple homebrew setting books that all use existing TTRPG systems. Video games involve a far larger pool of talent and far larger expenses, and that's especially true for MMOs. I'll consider crowdfunding after I have a portfolio to show.
6:41 scared the shit out of me. After the Kira paused the clip and Kira started, "the problem with saying this..." the guy's face in the video fucking turned and stared directly into the camera.
Love when peeps are like, just bring the money and everything will work out. What if I just gave money to a team that knows what they're doing already? A team that can get it done faster, better and cheaper?
I had dry socket year back and it was both painful and frustrating. For one, the lack of a blood clot slows down the healing process drastically, and two, there's now a hole in your gums and you can't help but lick the now exposed jaw bone causing it to heal even slower.
The biggest red flag is him saying he can x4 $500k into $2M. How does he expect to x4 the money? Crypto? Casinos? High risk stocks? It just sounds like he's going to gamble the funds instead of making a game.
Followed Demone back when I was playing one of these wallet vampire gacha games. The dude is completely chill and seems legit, but I fully agree that "a stand-up guy" doesn't translate into "has the experience, skills, drive and vision to prop up a multi-million dollar product and successfully deliver on a full-fledged MMO experience". Having a dream is nice. It's less nice when you try to lean on other people to fund, well, not the dream because it's completely unrealistic, but probably your salary for the next few years trying to somehow magic your way into realizing said dream. If you can afford to "dare greatly" and do a complete belly flop on your own dime, that's admirable. If you're taking someone else's money and throwing it into a furnace in the hopes of igniting a spark that will start a whole "Other World", that's less admirable. In fact, that sounds like kind of a jerk thing to do. You could argue that the people funding this are opting into it knowing the risks, but my counter argument is that the internet is vast enough that you can collect enough naive, stupid and impressionable people to milk for pretty much anything. Many of the people getting taken in pipedreams like this are not, in fact, opting in with full knowledge of anything. They're just kinda dumb and being taken advantage of.
I think our culture is drowning in stories about the amazing successes of people who were born rich, that we forget that the reason that works is that they were born rich and have a lifetime of rich-people connections. I guess they WANT us to forget that, but it leads to things like this, where people think they can do magic so long as they have the right attitude and a little bit of other people's money.
Very fair take, plenty of other options you can do with time you didn't know you'd have. Kira you're a fine example of that. Good intentions unfortunately have nothing to do with the reality of what this guy is ostensibly undertaking.
Getting a team of 6 people with correct motivation and skills is hard. Getting them to work well together and move toward one goal is even harder. A small indie game that can be made with 1 person (yourself) or 2-3 people is much more realistic unless you are a great leader. Never done any game but seen so many project issues at many different orgs.
One thing that gives this project a chance based on the clips you shared is that he just said " multiplayer," not "mmo." He just needs it to support two people
That doesn't give it a chance either. He also didn't say 2 people. He said server based and typical survival game numbers. Like rust, conan exiles, etc
I just got kicked out of his discord for asking him about what the actual plan to get funding over the next 6 months was because we haven't had any concept art, assets, design documents or any kind of material update in more than 2 months. He acknowledges they don't have any intellectual property (assets or concepts) that VC is interested in buying but also says they won't make any more assets until they get more funding... which he says will cost 10-14k a week for the "team" he has. Yeah. You see the problem here. When I asked for a clear answer on the next steps for the project he got very aggressive and hostile telling me to fuck off and chastising me for not being "positive". I screenshotted our conversation if you want a copy for posterity.
@@markonnen rofl that's wild man. Been following him ever since he dropped that video on how it is his life goal to make a game cause he almost died. Sounded like a manic episode to me and here we are, he's completely unhinged now. Sad to see people support it.
I'm sorry but when someone starts talking about how near death and their grand mother has made them realise they have to sell me a "product" I cant take them seriously. Like he does this whole heartstring tugging but then also sounds like any generic ad talking about how almost dying made him want to redefine survival mmos
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" This case is like someone graduating from playing with Lego to applying to civil contracts to build a suspension bridge. With no qualifications, experience, or building capability.
"There's nothing preventing me from putting a team together, there's nothing preventing us from creating the product" Apart from the money you're crowdfunding for...
I get it, I have my own world I wanna make, but getting it out of my head is the hard part, I'm definitely not gonna start with a game because that's like a dozen other skills I'd need, but if I ever managed to get it off the ground, it would be either a spiritual successor to Morrowind with that games combat, or am immersive sim, with the classic fallout map system
Redefining what it means to play survival action RPGs - WOW, that's a big undertaking for an indie dev, hell even AAA dev (even assuming publisher wouldn't interfere). I wish these people would just set a reasonably goal that is achievable and the right people will still support them.
I couldn't help but notice that during his pitch video he had subtitles overlaying each other making them very hard to read. I understand he himself may not be making this game, as he claims he can hire people, but if such a basic visual issue got though on a video to pitch your game, then what is the UI going to be like?
'His calling to do" As someone who has no formal training in making games and is still making one, "red flag" isn't even sufficient anymore, this is just ridiculous. So many things can go wrong, and Murphy's laws are brutal when it comes to game dev.
He should start with his own money and then try to crowdfund when he has something to show. I don't understand how anyone hands over their money to someone who has nothing to show.
There are genuinely professions where his logic applies. The key to success in many careers (e.g. real estate, landscaping, executive assistants, sales, trading, management, life coaching, self-help authors, youtubers/influencers, motivational speakers, online marketing, etc.) really just boils down to being driven / having a strong work ethic, common sense and attention to detail. So you can realistically fake it till you make it. And if you only have experience in such fields, then it's probably easy to make the mistake of thinking this applies to all jobs, including highly technical fields that require a ton of deep skill and knowledge. But knowing how to hustle won't help you become a medical doctor or airline pilot or game developer in a couple weeks.
I wish people would view Indie MMO crowd funded projects in a simple manner: Do they have even a demo of the tech they're promising? Even a barebones C++ built simulation? No - Don't invest. Do they have any background in netcode? No - Don't invest. Do they have some canned footage of a "player" walking through their world, while talking about all the immersive content they want to add? Yes - Don't invest. ie. If you're pitching Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode in MMORPG form - Do you have even a barebones simulation of what you're proposing and just need to hire a team to build the backend and graphics? I built my own simulation similar to Dwarf Fortress and have ambitions to make it into a small scale MMORPG, but I have a lot of work to do on the simulation itself, as well as a system to seamlessly "dumb down" the simulation in areas that aren't actively needed.
Give me money to fulfill my dream, because i had a ruff time - thats a massive red flag to me, when it comes to promises like delivering "something" as a exchange for money and trust. Thats the worst kind of framing and he didn't even hide it...
If he REALLY wanted to leave something behind and 'make an impact', he very realistically could make an RPG maker or AGS Adventure game by himself or together with an Artist. Yesterday I watched a video about a 10minute long Kings Quest adventure fan game made 10+ years ago by a kid - way more meaningful than a mmo that will never ever exist.
This is another exemplary case of a concept I've developed called "the personal journey." It describes how the modern man goes through his life and tries to find meaning and purpose, when most of the ways men have done so throughout history have been made low status or unattainable. This is a man who wants a 'legacy' as if he were an industrial tycoon or man of great wealth & stature wanting to dedicate his fortune and good name to public works that will continue long after he dies. The personal journey is all about an individual man being at the center of his own story as he gradually works his way towards inevitable greatness. Each failure and mistake along the way is embraced as a necessary learning experience for him, even if it negatively affects other people. Speaking of leaving legacies, sadly I won't be able to write the essay or book that explains "the personal journey." The concept is very useful in understanding how modern people go about their lives. It's especially appropriate for all of these croudfunding dreamers wanting to create the last game you'll ever play (...with other people's money, skills, and talent). You all will just have to hope that someone else develops a similar concept as 'the personal journey' and is able to spread it. Good luck.
8:32 Trying and failing at something isn’t an inherently bad thing. But doing that with other people’s money and breaking your promises to other people is. It shows he’s not content with just wasting his own time, energy and money on a project that has a very low chance of fruition since he has no experience. He is also willing to drag other people down with him into failure.
We have been building an open world RPG now since 2016 and spent near on £300,000 from funding and we are still 5+ years off it being completly stable.
You need an actual physical location, a studio of sorts to bring the product to fruition. Think about it, there are studios of 5 or 10 people outputting total bangers, whilst other projects that have their "devs" scattered across the globe, still struggle with a demo but have hundreds of millions in the bank (because people are idiots). The problem with that is wages. US wages are insane compared to Eastern Europe, Asia or South America. My advice? Get $10,000 or so, move to a large city in a South American country of your choice, and hire a programmer and an artist (3d, 2d). Put a demo together in a matter of months and find investors then. Keep a physical location, make people put the hours in and answer to management. Scale up and the rest is history. Not rocket science.
I was warned up dry sockets when I had my wisdom tooth removed decades ago, they sure made it sound scary so I just drank and slurped jello for a week to make sure it won't happen, couldn't brush my teeth either which was the most annoying part,
I'm making a game which I genuinly want people to value. I learn a lot about what I shouldn't do, in addition to my own thoughts, from you. Sorry to hear what you went through and the upmost respect for being a survivor. Glad you're with us here. You're cool and your content is so good.
It's the American Dream, from rags to riches. Pulling oneself up by the footsraps! (Disclaimer I'm not trashing on the guy, I'm trashing on the American Lie)
If I had a dollar for every "my overambitious trauma-motivated first game will be the best game ever" crowdfunding, I'd have enough money to fund my own overambitious trauma-motivated game.
True stuff! Maybe you could just take a dollar from all their gofundme's, never know maybe yours will be the best game ever
@@beansious My game will be the best game because *clears throat* I TRULY believe on it
I wanna make Pathologic the mmorpg.
Where do I donate?
name 5 video game projects that were motivated by trauma, without researching, or if you can't name 3
6:34 He is basically saying "I'd rather go out and walk toward the north right away than wasting time planning, preparing and getting equipment for north pole exploration."
A list of red flags:
Opens with an appeal to emotion
Survival RPG MMO
No experience making games
No experience with leadership
Crowd funding on a platform with no consumer protections
I agree that this man seems sincere, but i wouldn’t back this with money I found on the ground.
0 experience in game making and hoping to make an mmo is all one needs to know😂
Don't forget about his claim of x4 the money if the goal is hit.
Not an MMO, but ye its ambitious for 0 experience.
I have to disagree. I don't think he sounds sincere at all. This game was never going to happen, but I think the fact that he's using gofundme explicitly because it doesn't have the protections that kickstarter does pushes me over from 'naive idea guy' to 'cynical grifter'.
Also using his relative and experience that they almost died to guilt people into donating.
"I don't know programming, but I can find the right people."
Well do you have the skills to find, hire, and manage those people?
I'm not an architect, and I've never so much as nailed anything to a wooden plank, but I've decided to make the biggest building ever made by man. Me and a team of three people.
Now give me money, no guarantee.
Legit.
People who use personal trauma as an advertising tactic in their games always gives me a red flag, Dreamworld maybe gave me PTSD.
If your game is truly influenced by trauma it will be seen in the stories you tell, not "boo hoo me, my loved ones are dead, give me money".
Yeah, this reminds me of myself at school or at a job that I hate, every excuse come out of the woodwork to be a blocker for why I couldn't get something done. This is the inverse, where the guy says all these blockers will be motivators... that is a horrible marketing tactic, Chief.
My dog.... (sigh) ...left me.
I feel the same. Most people if lives long enough has some tragic s*it in their past. I''d rather see compassion and love for games/gaming and the wish to create things that others can enjoy than listening to this guy hammering in a story about cancer and how he almost died.
I wish I could make a game someday but I'd never aim so high as this guy. I'd definitely start on a smaller scale with a simple game. For one it would give more experience and you would have a base team to build upon later with other projects. A smaller game with a positive reception is way better than a huuuuge idea that will surely fail.
@@Argumemnon What?! Oh shit, NOOO! I'm so sorry. When's your game coming out?? I can't wait to play the greatest game ever made! Sigh... so much trauma, so little time to learn to program code. Are you crowd funding it too?
@@Argumemnon I HEARD your comment
I study programming and development. I've got a bunch of little game projects under my belt. Making games is h_a_r_d. You have to get the failures out of your system, so that you can learn and do better. There is no skipping in that learning process. Start small, build up from that. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by starting your dream project first. Your first priority should be to build something doable. Then build five or ten more things. At some point you will be ready. Yes, you can try to circumvent this if you have the money to hire others to build your project for you, but besides then being dependant on others, this still requires its own skillset, such as project management, design, etc.
Video game development is awesome, but also probably one of the hardest creative arts. You have to do EVERYTHING. Programming, assets, game design, it just goes on and on. I'm one of the tons of people in this comment section who's had a game idea in my head for years but it's so hard man...
@@sickoslater Yeah, I also have an idea for the "best game ever" if I just had the talent and time to make it. But this guy is at least talking about hiring people, not expecting to miraculously do it all himself with no experience.
>You have to get the failures out of your system
You will never run that well dry. I work on a game with some of the best minds in the industry and it's still more challenging than most people would believe. We are on hard mode though- a live service game that needs regular content to go out, so we are never done.
@@ARUCARDFTEPES Hiring people doesn't mitigate the need to understand all those things though. You could collect the greatest programmers, artists, designers and managers from all of the top game companies in the world, but if you aren't able to contribute anything for them to work with beyond saying "I want the best action-MMORPG-zombie game ever made", then there's no cohesion or direction and all that's happened is a lot of money and talent will be flushed down the toilet. You either have to bring knowledge of the industry or knowledge of how to run a business to make it work, simply being the "idea guy" with a pocket full of money is nowhere near enough.
@@NorthStarBlue1 This is what Amazon found out the hard (and expensive) way.
I love when people day “it’s my calling” but have not actually done anything with their calling. If you like doing it you will have already done it to some extent. If your first task to answer your calling is to ask for money then you will fail. There is so much free software and tutorials you have no excuse to not have some tangible proof you really want to do a thing.
this is like messages that let's play RUclipsrs get...from people who want to make games but first want a promise that the RUclipsr will actually play it
You should have enough passion to make it yourself.
I was homeless and got out of it myself. I want to make games someday. I'm not naive enough to think my getting through one adversity in any way translates to knowledge of game development; all it tells me is I can survive a shitty situation
"We'll figure it out, man." inspires a ton of confidence you're gonna be able to deliver a finished game. /s
I don’t get why people making games specifically hate the notion of finishing an okay game now instead of making the Magical Christmasland game that will never finish. In writing famously the advice for anyone who has a super mega book they want to devote their life to is put it down and write a bunch of books first, because the best and only experience for finishing your dream project is finishing orher projects first.
You are so right about this! Don't start with your Magnum Opus, start small and with that experience your Magnum Opus will be so much better.
Exactly. There are video game developers large and small who have a couple of shit tier games under their belt along with their greatest works. But at least they have a history of completed games in the first place...
As the saying goes, "Perfect is the worst enemy of finished."
Because those type of people that shout from the Mt Tops that they are making the greatest game ever are almost always the same people with no idea what goes into a game to start with. They think it's easy. That with the right people at the wheel it would be easy for them to make a better game than those they play regularly. In Truth the world of game dev is one of a million failures for a couple successes. The only way to realistically start out is by making simple projects.
Also the fact that, in art, less is more. Some of those "small" games will secure their places in history as geniune pieces of art, and the mega corporations' "huge" projects will be lost to time.
I've been working on my game for 2.5 years. I havn't made kickstarter for it yet.
I feel like people should not make kickstarters unless they have playable vertical slice of their game minimum.
Lmao no that’s much too hard just give them the money
you're the opposite, after 2.5 years you should have a lot, and it wouldn't make sense to kickstart a deep into development project
@@damazywlodarczyk I think it would make sense. You can be pretty close to being finished with the game, but only have 20% of art done for the game. Art is super expensive to commission.
@@CodeRadGames the whole idea of kickstarter is about trust, that the creator will use money wisely in the future(most don't), so almost all projects get to kickstarter in infancy - it makes sense, even the name(kickstart) suggests that, in your case, it's very much developed(or should be), so it would be a little dishonest asking for money, when you already spend most of your money/work, art being expensive? you would have to prove that by showing contracts, but nobody does, thats why(among other things) crowdfunding is a bad idea, but mostly because it's not managed by someone above, and creators get awarded for products they didn't release yet, they get lazy and greedy, they steal money, im talking in general, not you
@@damazywlodarczyk I'm not saying someone should spend 2.5 years on game before going to kickstarter. But they should at least have vertical slice of the game ready. This can take few months. With vertical slice, people can try it and see if its worth investing so they can finish the game.
Step one anyone wanting to do an indie game should do is watch Jeff Volgel's GDC video. It may not cover everything and some might be out of date but the guy lays out 30 years of experience for free.
Thanks will check it out :)
That’s a good talk. Failing to Fail.
These sort of projects are like,
"Hey, you should give me money to make my dream project, it's an intricate, 5-concept-album symphonic prog rock magnum opus, bigger than anything anyone's ever done"
"Oh, sweet, what's your band called?"
"Well, it's just me right now"
"Oh. Then, can I listen to some of your songs somewhere?"
"I haven't actually written any songs yet, but I've got a lot of really cool ideas"
"I see.. well, what instruments do you play?"
"I don't really have any experience playing music - Well, I know a few guitar chords. But I promise, this is going to be amazing"
"Maybe you should just.. write one song first, before embarking on this project?"
"Nope, it's this or nothing."
"I've got the ideas, I can hire people who know how to write and play music later"
*The Alan Parsons Project enters the chat* 😂🎶😂 But seriously, best bet when folks have these huge ideas is to write them down - keep a notebook/Gdrive of all those crazy-huge thoughts, while you build the skills/exp. Then when you're ready to build bigger, you've got a plethora of notes/plans to pull from.
@@mandisaw alan parson? the occult deep state guy that was making rockets before anyone else? that was a crazy rabbithole
Reminds me of those forum posts back in the day where some "ideas" kid would ask for team members to help them create the bestest MMORPG everer
The way he talks about this project and how much it means to him, how excited he is really really is going to make when it fails hit all the harder assuming hes not just full of it out the gate.
If you want to have a snowball's chance in hell of making a good MMO you need to out do, out create and out perform basically 5 or 6 juggernauts of the genre and that's not even talking about infrastructure requirements.
This man is in for a rough time of hes actually being honest and not planning a scam.
I dont think he has to outdo, but certainly he has to work harder not bullshit his audience keep people informed and at least give it one hell of a try and people would stick with it. When things go bad is when there is no communication or when you start buying houses during production lol.
It’s. a scam.
@@DaveS1969 that’s wrong. Trying hard won’t make a difference. This guy has zero dev experience and never wrote a line of code. If he was at all serious he would work as a game dev first for a while, or just make a game on his own first to gain some ability and make sure he wouldn’t be wasting anyone’s money.
MMOs are one of the hardest style of game to make from the outset. I really do wonder how much of his passion is fueled by the same "I could do this better" mentality that basically every gamer has when they play games.
@Lex Pullman yeah exactly. He has no experience in game design at all, which is the biggest reason why this is so sketchy. The idea of bringing a solid team together is sound in theory but the simple fact he has no experience in game design, project management, or even any basic knowledge in code and art means it's doomed from the outset.
In one sense I understand exactly what he is saying. Shortly after the pandemic I started losing my eyesight and was diagnosed with advanced glaucoma. When all other options were exhausted, I underwent emergency surgery to keep the eyesight I still had left and although this has been a life changing event for me (I can't do my job anymore and I can't drive) the surgery was successful and I have at least been allowed to keep the eyesight I still have. For all my life I have dreamed of being a novelist, but it took something like this to truly activate me and to chasing that goal. the difference is I'm not asking anyone for money. I'm the only one gambling on myself to be successful. I cannot help but be very suspicious when someone uses highly emotive rhetoric, as a means to secure funding from other people. while I wish him all the best and hope that he succeeds, it has to be about facts and figures. The logistics and the road map all have to make sense and everything needs to add up before you start taking other people's money. That's just my opinion.
There is a difference between writing a novel and building an rpg.
Both require good writing and planning, but one also requires additional tech skills.
Thats why his project is scammy.
I hate when hardships are used to raise money for games. I understand it's your story but like that doesn't have anything to do with game creation its a good story for when the game is completed not when it hasn't even begun.
"I'd rather fail trying this big game" translation: I know this is going to fail but through gofundme I get to keep your money.
When I went through gamedev courses in college, they really tried to hammer home one point; there are no "idea guys" in gamedev. Anyone can have an idea, pitch a dream game, hype up some grandiose plan for the best game ever, but they are not the people that make games. That's not to say there aren't planners, people that plan mechanics and write design documents, but 11 times out of 10, they're seasoned artists and programmers with the experience to do said designing.
Duh, to design you need to know whats possible.
Demone is an awesome guy. I really want to wish him well, but I wont be putting my money on that bet. This is a pipe dream. He needs to start small, MUCH smaller. Singleplayer game start to finish to get the process down would be huge for him.
I remember this guy from his Genshin Impact days. I think he's got the right intentions and I hope it does well but yeah, I would in no way help fund a video game. It's already "risky" af pre purchasing a game that looks perfectly fine pre release nowadays. No way in hell i'm gnna put money in it that's nowhere near completion. Especially if it's from someone who hasn't had much experience in game development.
There is this weird trend with people where they feel like they *have* to do something BIG or the BEST the first time, especially when it's something they've never done anything even close to before. It's a form of self sabotage and it's damned tragic. I've watched my brother waste 5 years of his life now chasing the dream of making an escape room that would be the BEST EVER from day one. That's not how anything works. You start small, you kludge something in your free time as a proof of concept, figure out what skills and tools you already have that can be used and what ones you have to learn/get, and then, after you have your first small success, you go bigger. But without that first test run, you're going to be blowing everything without even knowing what you need to get there.
Its okay to start small. It's SMART to start small. If you start small, you can write off any failure as a learning experience and try again. But that's not the narrative that you see anywhere, because that doesn't make a good story. This dude could likely really pull off a good game if he was willing to do a small project first, but if he's just hyper focused on LEGACY and MAKING THE BEST THING EVER he'll never get anything done because it'll always be JUST out of reach.
Maybe social media is to blame. Many want to be that special unicorn. They want to look better than the next person, do better, live better, be remembered better. But most of them are irrelevant and will be forgotten. This guy probably too. But that's okay if you can come to terms with that. It's okay to be just another irrelevant thing in a universe of many irrelevant things. Not everyone is meant for great or even above-average things. All of us will die at some point and like 99% of us will be forgotten too eventually. That doesn't mean you cannot live a good life still, within limits and with some humbleness. Try and enjoy the here and now. There just are things out of your control, always will be.
@@Lenariet I think Social Media is just the latest wave. A lot of movies give the same narrative. But that does seem to really be the core of it. Everyone wants to be exceptional, but that's just not how anything works.
I think the core of a lot of this can be seen in this dude's want of a legacy. How will you be remembered when you pass on? Hopefully as a pretty cool dude who was a great all around guy. Leave your legacy in the people that you touch. You don't need to make some groundbreaking mega awesome thing to do that.
this is bullshit, its amazing to have big ambitions, and when it hits, its amazing, even if it leads to failure it's great, there is so little ambition in video games right now, i would rather see a lot of failures, which end up as youtube videos than another mediocre game, because the dev thought small, no, i want groundbreaking shit and big visions, even if they fail, they could always start again, but the philosophy stays with them, if they're realistic, well, then we get this industry, which is mostly copycat/safe design
@@Lenariet it's like we're on different planets, everywhere i go on social media, i see mediocrity, i don't see people trying to be different, they fall into the algorithm, nothing wrong with that, but i rarely see exceptions, also you would like people to be humble in 21st century, on social media? this doesn't make any sense, they would have to stop using them all together
@@FranNyan sure if you want legacy, you can be an all around awesome guy, to your close family, and maybe few friends, but if you want to remembered by someone else besides them, you need to do something exceptional, like all legendary musicians did for example
As a software engineer, game dev is really fucking hard, even for experienced devs
People are delusional about how difficult game development actually is, I've been in the industry 4 years now and couldn't even imagine everything that would need to be done to make this guy's game
it's not difficult, there's a tutorial for everything now, its just a lot of work
@@damazywlodarczyk
It is difficult. People are just used to seeing cookie cutter games that abuse stock assets and forget that most of those games, despite being copy-pasta, were broken messes that were quickly abandoned.
@@SvendleBerries No, its not difficult making anything on a computer besides programming and hacking, i just started using sony vegas and people say it's difficult, and it takes me 5 minutes of watching a tutorial to resolve every issue with it. Same thing with game development. Costly, and time consuming, sure, but not difficult.
@@damazywlodarczyk the only person who would say something so naive and stupid is someone that actually has no real experience making games. The tutorials are just basic starting points and your claim that there is a tutorial for 'everything' is just factually incorrect. The tutorials don't come close to scratching the surface of the sheer amount of challenges and issues people need to overcome while building a full game.
@@damazywlodarczyk Of course it's difficult, that's why 99.99999999% of people can't do it. If it was easy, and all you needed was a few tutorials, why wouldn't people struggling along in unskilled minimum wage jobs just quit and make a game? It's easy! Granted the free resources out there nowadays are incredible but you still need some sort of aptitude for it to make use of it. Most people would barely be able to get their head around the concept of what a 'variable' is. If you are a programmer I'm not sure why you'd downplay your skills, and if you're not then you don't really know what you're talking about.
I've made games for systems ranging from the Channel F, C64 and arcade hardware to smartphones and modern desktop games. Tutorials are handy for getting started and after 3-4 games on a platform certain things start getting 'easy' through experience, but there is always something new to learn and figure out that there most certainly is not a tutorial for.
Even with my experience so far the thought of sitting down and planning out the architecture for an MMO, as the OP says, is mind-boggling. That's highly specialist and if you haven't done it before you're going to go down the wrong path a hundred times before you get it right. How much is it going to cost to get someone with that experience? And that's just the technical side of it, you need an equally skilled game designer to bring it altogether into something that's balanced and fun.
Sadest part of it all... He had the perfect pitch to launch a small rpg game... Heck with that story, most people would just give him money for a small project and not really cared all that much of the outcome. But he had to let a bit of hubris sneak in. And thusly fucked it up-
Steven Sharif said at the beginning of Ashes of Creation that it will only take 3 years (or something like that) and He had the money. Now we are in year 6 I think and we still have not played a proper Alpha (well we played alpha 1 but you know... Alpha 2 should be the one which we see the proper game ). Don't get me wrong, I hope that AoC will be a massive hit, and it will be finished in the next few years, but what I want to say is: Even if you have the money and the manpower, not everything will go as you want it to.
And AoC is a better example... we also have Chronicles of Elyria... which is the bad example. :D
"intent does not matter, only consequences"
- Kratos
Money out of someone else's pocket.
The consequences wasn't even his to bear
Well I mean the whole intent behind crowdfunding is to use other people's money without facing any consequences if something goes wrong
Telling about his passion and goal in life by reading of his notes, looks legit af lol
So, what do you like to do?- Just a second, gotta check my notes.
As someone with no short-term memory whatsoever who uses notes for everything - nah, that's not a problem. Plenty of red flags in here, but using notes no.
@@dondashall
Needing notes to remember personal things about _yourself_ whilst trying to make a game like this IS a red flag. I have pretty severe memory problems too, need to write shit down all the time, I would never trust myself to do something like this as I damn well know I would never actually be able to do it. But then, maybe thats why this guy thinks he can succeed. Because he quickly forgets about his own limitations. Imagine having no legs but constantly trying to walk anyway because you forget you dont have legs.
@@SvendleBerries Not really. That's what notes are for. They're there so you DON'T have to remember everything in your head. The analogy is not appropriate. Being able to recite your pitch by heart does not inherently make it better.
@@SvendleBerries im sorry you are completely wrong. there are instances of recollection that you want to reference of your past and you don't remember the details. You couldn't tell me the date of when you filed taxes but if you check the tax return i.e. notes. you will see. Your logic is ridiculous at best. Dondashall is right.
I'm subbed to his channel and saw this when it dropped and it was showing all the red flags. His big announcement was 1 piece of art he made (Or rather the artist he hired made) and 1 piece he found, and you cant google his thing without his name in the search. If he could deliver what he says that would be awesome, but he also wants it to be completely community driven. Just a lot of conflicting ideas and nothing backing it for real other than passion.
For me one of the biggest red flag is that his vision of the "greatest game ever made" is exactly the same as SO MANY other scam "best game ever" games. I can't even count how many fantasy survival hard-core mmos have been used to scam people out of their money. You really can tell he *wants* this to work but I am left wondering how much of it is fueled by delusion and how much of that passion is genuine
He's trying to run before learning to walk. I wish him all the best but this isn't going to end well.
He's trying to run a marathon when he hasn't learned to stand up without help.
I do wish him well. But I am concerned about how delusional he is with his out of control scope.
I know we don't live forever, but you MUST take your time and start small and take your time to build up your skill base, no matter what your end goal is.
I almost died three times, drowning in a pool, developing an aggressive brain tumor and barely escaping adrenal failure. But I am taking my time to develop my skills, entering game jams, joining a writing group to work up to produce my small video game, to share with friends and family. And maybe if someone enjoys it, maybe I'll make another one for the intent to sell the next one. (I'm already a pixel artist so that part is a done deal. 😄)
''Turn 500k into millions''
He's going to invest it into crypto isn't he?
When I started doing RPG Maker projects, I tried to make one where you collect monsters similar to Pokemon.
Then I realized that was difficult so I did one where you could get up to 9 party members to swap between.
Then I realized that was difficult so I made with 4 characters and focused on story and exploration.
I think lots of people start with the most ambitious project and go simpler and simpler until theyw get something achievable, which is why I don't try to promote or kickstart stuff until I know I have something that I could do.
One of the biggest lies in human history: needing to leave a legacy. You can live a life you're happy with and not leave a thing behind.
meh, if you're happy doing that then more power to you, but i don't think it's a lie about wanting to leave something behind, whether that's a child to carry on your family or something as small as planting a tree and seeing it grow throughout your life and leaving that there. it often helps people deal with facing death knowing that something they did will still be here continuing on.
@@thelonesomewanderer8359 pointless egotistical ramblings, none of it matter when you're dead
@@killmesoicanrespawn3775 your purpose in life is to procreate, nothing more.
@@killmesoicanrespawn3775 how do you know? have you died and seen if there is an afterlife or if we have a connection to this world still?
There's gonna be a point where we're all extinct and the legacy of the greatest people who have ever lived will mean nothing.
"I rather fail using your money, than maybe succeed taking my time to develop skills and experience"
And just like that all the empathy I had to this guy is gone.
Love Demone.. He's a good dude that went through a whole lotta shit. But yeah alarm bells are ringing. Personally, I have manic episodes sometimes which make me feel like God or the Universe gave me a purpose and like I can accomplish anything in the world. In these episodes I make way too many promises to people that I can never fulfill. The way he's talking reminds me alot of one of those episodes/
Uh oh that is a bad sign-
Yeah, manic episodes suck. Especially the crash afterwards.
It's funny, how sometimes it seems our brain is actively working to destroy us
@@iamjustkiwi Yup. I go from feeling like an invincible Super Man to feeling like a worthless slug. At least it's not boring.
Kyra, I just want to say that you are one of my favourite RUclipsrs. Your voice, your honesty, your hard work ethic, your ethics in general, your humour etc.... Keep it up mate. I feel you have a nice loyal fan base now and I'm certainly one of them.
Kira my king ❤
everything but how to actually spell his name right?
what honesty? there's no honesty, he's an asshole, he tries to convince people to not invest in some poor fuck's project with zero evidence, the project is probably bullshit but there's no way to tell, so this is extremely dishonest
@@hanspecans haha. Oops. Well, to be honest, his name is the one thing I hate about him 😂
(Joke)
@@BlueBeam10 how did you get gay vibes from this post 🤣🤣 you went looking for something and found nothing and that’s is what you come up with. Have a good day.
I’m making my first ”big” game and being a solo developer I can’t understand how you can want to ask for peoples money over something so ambitious without any way to show that others can trust you or that you wont abandon it. If I would ask for money for funding my project I would atleast want to show what I am capable of and what expectations people should have
This is SO freaking frustrating... like dude, AT THE VERY LEAST, you can create some sort of game design document that shows what your game actually is. I just reviewed this lady's game who is a financial advisor, and she managed to create an interactable spreadsheet with all the game's mechanics/economics already figured out (plus a document that shows what the game details would be) for her financial management game. Even then, she came to my team to ask for feedback BEFORE even asking anyone for money.
Everybody has some story. Many people have been through insanely tough shit. You can't just use that as an excuse for why you are asking for HALF A MILLION DOLLARS with shit all to show for it. Sheesh man. /rant
Anyways, thanks for trying to show folks the light Kira!!
The problem with these guys is step skipping. He needs experience. If he serious as a game designer he should have a desire to take the steps to actually succeed. Skipping steps is always a sign that you don't really want to do the actual work. He wants money, and this game seems like a bypass to wealth for him.
The most common misconception by people who've never been involved in running a business of _any_ size is _"money solves all problems, so if I get lots of money in I can work out the rest."_ Real life doesn't work like that unfortunately... while I feel for the guy, this sounds like someone saying they're qualified to manufacture the next electric car because they have a drivers licence.
And as a migraine sufferer I can attest that there's nothing worse than pain _anywhere_ in your head, so I hope you feel better soon Kira! 💜
As a game dev, the hubris of people that never worked on a game, no matter how big, but instantly know better how to make one really rubs me the wrong way.
I've supported 3 crowdfunding efforts in my life. One boardgame which came out and exists, one videogame which came out and exists, and a friend who wanted to make a movie which he's in post-production with, so it's coming soonish. Supporting this would be sheer idiocy.
Now lets be fair, he could be a savant, and he could be hiring a full team behind this with decades of experience! While he revolutionizes the speaker market and giving his wife a fake wedding ring...wait sorry wrong game; as you were?
"I don't wanna make a little game..." this alone is a disqualifying statement. This is basically saying "I have no idea about game development and design, have no connection to reality and don't care about the money that will be deleted until I have to admit the project never had a chance in the first place."
There’s that saying. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
I will never again buy early access or crowdfunding games doesn't matter how great they will look . Last time I purchased Distant Kingdoms and after some time developers abandoned this game, crazy thing is you can still purchase it on steam lol
"Best Fantasy Survival Action RPG" - He forgot a few buzzwords and marketing slogans like MMO or infinite or endless possibilites.
Also playing New World and naming his game Other World. Big brain.
He also forgot to put in blockchain and web3 integration for few extra bucks. :D
Not to be confused with the game "Another World"
@@chainsawplayin I was actually thinking about that one too, but I guess it's so old that only few remember it. (Still pretty cool though.)
This guy is honestly pathetic, even more are the ones giving him money
I've got my own gaming projects after a rough period in my life, but I'm trying to keep my ambitions realistic: A small GM supplement and a couple homebrew setting books that all use existing TTRPG systems. Video games involve a far larger pool of talent and far larger expenses, and that's especially true for MMOs.
I'll consider crowdfunding after I have a portfolio to show.
6:41 scared the shit out of me. After the Kira paused the clip and Kira started, "the problem with saying this..." the guy's face in the video fucking turned and stared directly into the camera.
Your videos are fantastic to watch in the morning as I crunch D&D maps. Thank you so much for these entertaining videos!
Love when peeps are like, just bring the money and everything will work out. What if I just gave money to a team that knows what they're doing already? A team that can get it done faster, better and cheaper?
I had dry socket year back and it was both painful and frustrating. For one, the lack of a blood clot slows down the healing process drastically, and two, there's now a hole in your gums and you can't help but lick the now exposed jaw bone causing it to heal even slower.
The last bit sounds unlikely. How do you fit a tongue in there?
The biggest red flag is him saying he can x4 $500k into $2M. How does he expect to x4 the money? Crypto? Casinos? High risk stocks? It just sounds like he's going to gamble the funds instead of making a game.
Followed Demone back when I was playing one of these wallet vampire gacha games. The dude is completely chill and seems legit, but I fully agree that "a stand-up guy" doesn't translate into "has the experience, skills, drive and vision to prop up a multi-million dollar product and successfully deliver on a full-fledged MMO experience".
Having a dream is nice. It's less nice when you try to lean on other people to fund, well, not the dream because it's completely unrealistic, but probably your salary for the next few years trying to somehow magic your way into realizing said dream.
If you can afford to "dare greatly" and do a complete belly flop on your own dime, that's admirable.
If you're taking someone else's money and throwing it into a furnace in the hopes of igniting a spark that will start a whole "Other World", that's less admirable.
In fact, that sounds like kind of a jerk thing to do.
You could argue that the people funding this are opting into it knowing the risks, but my counter argument is that the internet is vast enough that you can collect enough naive, stupid and impressionable people to milk for pretty much anything.
Many of the people getting taken in pipedreams like this are not, in fact, opting in with full knowledge of anything. They're just kinda dumb and being taken advantage of.
I think our culture is drowning in stories about the amazing successes of people who were born rich, that we forget that the reason that works is that they were born rich and have a lifetime of rich-people connections.
I guess they WANT us to forget that, but it leads to things like this, where people think they can do magic so long as they have the right attitude and a little bit of other people's money.
Very fair take, plenty of other options you can do with time you didn't know you'd have. Kira you're a fine example of that. Good intentions unfortunately have nothing to do with the reality of what this guy is ostensibly undertaking.
Coding? Nah. Developing? No way. Listen to me, what you need is someone like me, an IDEAS guy.
Getting a team of 6 people with correct motivation and skills is hard. Getting them to work well together and move toward one goal is even harder. A small indie game that can be made with 1 person (yourself) or 2-3 people is much more realistic unless you are a great leader. Never done any game but seen so many project issues at many different orgs.
"We'll figure it out, dude." Air tight. Can't lose. Sign me up.
One thing that gives this project a chance based on the clips you shared is that he just said " multiplayer," not "mmo." He just needs it to support two people
That doesn't give it a chance either. He also didn't say 2 people. He said server based and typical survival game numbers. Like rust, conan exiles, etc
Now you listen here, Kira.
Oh, Demone-"f2pPlayersHaveNoRightToComplainBecauseTheyDontPay"-Kim
I just got kicked out of his discord for asking him about what the actual plan to get funding over the next 6 months was because we haven't had any concept art, assets, design documents or any kind of material update in more than 2 months. He acknowledges they don't have any intellectual property (assets or concepts) that VC is interested in buying but also says they won't make any more assets until they get more funding... which he says will cost 10-14k a week for the "team" he has. Yeah. You see the problem here. When I asked for a clear answer on the next steps for the project he got very aggressive and hostile telling me to fuck off and chastising me for not being "positive". I screenshotted our conversation if you want a copy for posterity.
It looks like he removed the general discussion channel for discussing the game on his discord. The other channels about his game are in slow mode...
@@pizzated I can't even comment on his youtube channel anymore lol happy to see you posting real shit there
@@markonnen rofl that's wild man. Been following him ever since he dropped that video on how it is his life goal to make a game cause he almost died. Sounded like a manic episode to me and here we are, he's completely unhinged now. Sad to see people support it.
I'm sorry but when someone starts talking about how near death and their grand mother has made them realise they have to sell me a "product" I cant take them seriously. Like he does this whole heartstring tugging but then also sounds like any generic ad talking about how almost dying made him want to redefine survival mmos
Oh boy all these new game announcements are getting me excited for my next video :) :) :)
The Dunning-Kruger effect in action. From his New World videos I can tell he's a nice guy, but I can also tell he's a bit of a dreamer.
"We'll figure it out"
Put that on my fucking epitaph.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
This case is like someone graduating from playing with Lego to applying to civil contracts to build a suspension bridge. With no qualifications, experience, or building capability.
"There's nothing preventing me from putting a team together, there's nothing preventing us from creating the product"
Apart from the money you're crowdfunding for...
I get it, I have my own world I wanna make, but getting it out of my head is the hard part, I'm definitely not gonna start with a game because that's like a dozen other skills I'd need, but if I ever managed to get it off the ground, it would be either a spiritual successor to Morrowind with that games combat, or am immersive sim, with the classic fallout map system
Redefining what it means to play survival action RPGs - WOW, that's a big undertaking for an indie dev, hell even AAA dev (even assuming publisher wouldn't interfere). I wish these people would just set a reasonably goal that is achievable and the right people will still support them.
I knew a John Johnson in middle school. He would randomly shout out in class "MY NAME JOHN JOHNSON".
I couldn't help but notice that during his pitch video he had subtitles overlaying each other making them very hard to read. I understand he himself may not be making this game, as he claims he can hire people, but if such a basic visual issue got though on a video to pitch your game, then what is the UI going to be like?
Wait til he finds out how people with skill and experience just loooove taking direction from people with none.
/s
This is maybe the most random guy who wanna make a game.
'His calling to do" As someone who has no formal training in making games and is still making one, "red flag" isn't even sufficient anymore, this is just ridiculous. So many things can go wrong, and Murphy's laws are brutal when it comes to game dev.
He should start with his own money and then try to crowdfund when he has something to show. I don't understand how anyone hands over their money to someone who has nothing to show.
kudos for still recording and streaming while you're in so much pain. i hope u feel better soon
As a developer making a Kickstarted video game, I can't get enough of your videos.
R.I.P John Johnson
Edit: Murdered by words
Imagine walking into the Shark Tank with a sheet of paper asking for 5 million. That's Demone Kim.
There are genuinely professions where his logic applies. The key to success in many careers (e.g. real estate, landscaping, executive assistants, sales, trading, management, life coaching, self-help authors, youtubers/influencers, motivational speakers, online marketing, etc.) really just boils down to being driven / having a strong work ethic, common sense and attention to detail. So you can realistically fake it till you make it.
And if you only have experience in such fields, then it's probably easy to make the mistake of thinking this applies to all jobs, including highly technical fields that require a ton of deep skill and knowledge. But knowing how to hustle won't help you become a medical doctor or airline pilot or game developer in a couple weeks.
"I'm not your parent. It's not my fault" almost spit out my coffee
I wish people would view Indie MMO crowd funded projects in a simple manner:
Do they have even a demo of the tech they're promising? Even a barebones C++ built simulation? No - Don't invest.
Do they have any background in netcode? No - Don't invest.
Do they have some canned footage of a "player" walking through their world, while talking about all the immersive content they want to add? Yes - Don't invest.
ie. If you're pitching Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode in MMORPG form - Do you have even a barebones simulation of what you're proposing and just need to hire a team to build the backend and graphics?
I built my own simulation similar to Dwarf Fortress and have ambitions to make it into a small scale MMORPG, but I have a lot of work to do on the simulation itself, as well as a system to seamlessly "dumb down" the simulation in areas that aren't actively needed.
Give me money to fulfill my dream, because i had a ruff time - thats a massive red flag to me, when it comes to promises like delivering "something" as a exchange for money and trust.
Thats the worst kind of framing and he didn't even hide it...
If he REALLY wanted to leave something behind and 'make an impact', he very realistically could make an RPG maker or AGS Adventure game by himself or together with an Artist. Yesterday I watched a video about a 10minute long Kings Quest adventure fan game made 10+ years ago by a kid - way more meaningful than a mmo that will never ever exist.
His latest video says he has investors now. Very weird situation still.
A great example of making a smaller game, then medium then big is Deck13 w/ Surge, Surge 2 and now Atlas Fallen.
This is another exemplary case of a concept I've developed called "the personal journey." It describes how the modern man goes through his life and tries to find meaning and purpose, when most of the ways men have done so throughout history have been made low status or unattainable.
This is a man who wants a 'legacy' as if he were an industrial tycoon or man of great wealth & stature wanting to dedicate his fortune and good name to public works that will continue long after he dies. The personal journey is all about an individual man being at the center of his own story as he gradually works his way towards inevitable greatness. Each failure and mistake along the way is embraced as a necessary learning experience for him, even if it negatively affects other people.
Speaking of leaving legacies, sadly I won't be able to write the essay or book that explains "the personal journey." The concept is very useful in understanding how modern people go about their lives. It's especially appropriate for all of these croudfunding dreamers wanting to create the last game you'll ever play (...with other people's money, skills, and talent).
You all will just have to hope that someone else develops a similar concept as 'the personal journey' and is able to spread it. Good luck.
This crowdfunding video looks like Dreamworld 2.0.
Ive been making this one game since 2010. Still in production today!
8:32 Trying and failing at something isn’t an inherently bad thing. But doing that with other people’s money and breaking your promises to other people is.
It shows he’s not content with just wasting his own time, energy and money on a project that has a very low chance of fruition since he has no experience. He is also willing to drag other people down with him into failure.
The punchline: there's a big difference between pursuing your dreams and just dreaming
We have been building an open world RPG now since 2016 and spent near on £300,000 from funding and we are still 5+ years off it being completly stable.
"like, we'll figure it out dude" LOL
You need an actual physical location, a studio of sorts to bring the product to fruition. Think about it, there are studios of 5 or 10 people outputting total bangers, whilst other projects that have their "devs" scattered across the globe, still struggle with a demo but have hundreds of millions in the bank (because people are idiots).
The problem with that is wages. US wages are insane compared to Eastern Europe, Asia or South America.
My advice? Get $10,000 or so, move to a large city in a South American country of your choice, and hire a programmer and an artist (3d, 2d). Put a demo together in a matter of months and find investors then. Keep a physical location, make people put the hours in and answer to management. Scale up and the rest is history. Not rocket science.
I was warned up dry sockets when I had my wisdom tooth removed decades ago, they sure made it sound scary so I just drank and slurped jello for a week to make sure it won't happen, couldn't brush my teeth either which was the most annoying part,
I'm making a game which I genuinly want people to value. I learn a lot about what I shouldn't do, in addition to my own thoughts, from you. Sorry to hear what you went through and the upmost respect for being a survivor. Glad you're with us here. You're cool and your content is so good.
It's the American Dream, from rags to riches.
Pulling oneself up by the footsraps!
(Disclaimer I'm not trashing on the guy, I'm trashing on the American Lie)