I dont really look at the two the same, the people behind Camelot unchained at least have history of delivering an actual mmo. Thats not true of the latter. Camelot unchained is to me an example of just needing to pull the plug and give it up.
Yeah was that shitty RTS Kingdoms of Elyria ever released? I wish Kira would still follow what kind of 'updates' backers are getting now that they lost the case.
Two of my buddies were hyped for this and got me hyped, convinced me to go in with them on some big packs. Totally worth it, any time I've fucked up and have my back against the wall with them I just whip this out like an emergency jet pack and they back off with some "fuk yeah my bad"
I actually managed to get a refund for this--pretty sure it's due to the fact I had an incredibly low backer tier ($60) since I found out about CU while I was in uni. It took him 2 years to process my refund.
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Having good animations doesnt tell you anything about the underlying code. Animation files are completly independent from most engines and can be completly interchanged. Everyone can use the asset store to have smooth animations, but building strong logic and systems is mostly invisible unless you exactly know what you are looking for.
I really wanted this game to come out, was an old DAoC player and wanted a modern take on that in some way, shape, or form. But thanks to Kira's early on videos on this, I didn't put any backer money into it but simply waited until I hear more. Thanks Kira and the many others on this.
Dark Age was so awesome. i tried other MMOs like WOW and none of them held my interest. dark age had a great community too as far as i remember. had great guilds and some very entertaining shenanigans on the role playing servers. it had insanely fun PVP.
Just for comparison: The legendary, original Dark Age of Camelot had a development time of 18 months (!) with a team of 25 full-time developers and development cost of US$2.5 million. And that for a game with 3 realms, each having a unique graphical style. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot
this wiki is kind of misleading. DAOC was already created on paper and in a MUD it was called darkness falls. so the item database the mob list and the backstory/lore was already there. so alot of the process was already done before MJ and his team started dark age of camelot. look up spellbinder and darkness falls. as someone who still plays daoc. the classic spell effects werent that unique. but i will agree the first time i seen hibs str buff and that tree effect and the leaves falling was DOPE. look up death of dark age of camelot on youtube great watch..
the guy leaned on using that refund policy to be a dick to his customers on MOP for so long i don't think he realized that a sizable fraction of his customer base would seriously take him up on his offer. but he really was already long out of touch with the backers of this game and trying to build clout of all people MOP commenters 😂 most of whom are anti pvp carebears that want massively singleplayer online games.
@Noxti! Yeah, this! I'm actually 40 by now and 10 years ago I was still more enthusiastic for PvP than I imagine I'll ever be again. Totally happy with FFXIV by now and I cannot imagine me getting into a pure PvP game while also working a job in real life. I don't even know the me anymore who luckily only backed Camelot Unchained at the cheapest possible level.
@Noxti! okay that's fantastic but what does that have to do with mark focusing his marketing on people like you on MOP for a game that is almost pure pvp? i didn't imply a lack of awareness of why people might not want to pvp or solicit testimonials from people who don't like pvp. i was noting that mark spent gobs of real time canoodling and seeking praise from people that are 100% not the audience for this game instead of getting his work done as lead developer and designer. wow/w/e arenas and battle grounds aren't on the table for CU unless MJ randomly further bloats their feature creep. so why even bring them up? CU is intended to be a zerg vs zerg rvr game like yeah idk what the point of your reply here is. also i'm 41. i still world pvp. i feel you on not wanting to deal with guild/raid drama or w/e but wtf does your reply have to do with anything i said or is any way relevant to CU?
@@Speaker4200 Not really my business and frankly, I dunno why I'm bothering with this since it's a month old and doesn't really matter at all, but I believe the point of their reply was to respond to the derisive phrasing you used to refer to people who prefer a more casual style of gameplay in their MMOs: "anti pvp carebears that want massively singleplayer online games" See, if you phrase things aggressively and judgmentally like that, it tends to make people want to reply in order to justify their perspective to you. The purpose of their reply was not to engage with anything you said about CU, but rather to make it clear to you that it's justified to enjoy something that you seem extremely dismissive toward. Which is, in fact, very much related to something you said, because not every subject of your comment *was* CU in the first place.
Even i'm not a backer it broke my heart. DaoC was such a great game and our guild was hoping to come together for Unchained in *check notes* 2013. Some people are dead now, so i think it will never happen.
I was a devoted DAoC player back in 2001-2005, and was super stoked when CU was announced. Funded it immediately. So much potential with the ideas. 11 years later, I've given up on this completely. I'm not too bothered about a refund as it as I funded at a low tier.
Yeah, the saddest thing about this is that they started off with the tech to handle their core ideas, that foundation is definitely there, and it's being held hostage.
I never supported this project financially, but I watched it for several years with some degree of excitement. I remember reading all the dev blogs, watching the videos they put out, as well as the livestreams -- eventually losing interest after years of little to no actual progress. Kind of sad to remember it, search it up on RUclips, and find all of this out. RIP
I backed initially then completely forgot until about a year ago 😂 I have a very chequered history with backing games and projects with ones like this and star citizen but also solid ones like Flipper Zero and Elite Dangerous. I stopped backing games after star citizen though really. Although have had fun during testing on that tbh
@Kira, thanks so much for this video and covering this. I had totally forgot I dropped money on this also. I had to be a good decade ago or more iirc(thinking where I was working at the time I became a backer). I'm pretty sure I gave 120. And from what I remember the last time the release date I saw was 2015 and I just gave up. I might go to my credit union and see what I can do.
I can tell you what you can do fam, go through the company for a refund. Chargebacks have time limits, and no country or bank or card is going to do anything a decade later.
You will have to go through the company, the comment above me is correct. Chargebacks are typically not honored past about a year or 2 at the very long end. Since it is a credit union you may have a chance as they are typically willing to go a bit further for their customers. Wish you the best
Good to see you back. If you ever leave like that again, don’t worry, we will all be here waiting, ready to support your channel. Do what tou gotta do.
I remember when I started playing Guild Wars 2 I met so many players in WvW that came from DAoC and Warhammer online. So many of them told me that they were just waiting for Unchained to release and how it would kill all the PvP in all other MMO's. 9 years later and this game still hasn't launched.
I didn't hear about Andrew leaving. That's the end of CU. Andrew I truly feel put in tons of effort and had great intentions and hope for the game. In fact I have no doubts that at least the initial team put in 110% effort trying to make this thing happen. In fact, I can still see that at least some of the team is still actively making an effort on CU based on things I have access to (one of the higher tier original backer packages). That's why it's been tough for me to want to request a refund but now with Andrew gone I feel like the chance of a finish game dropped to about 1%. I don't think they fully understood what they were in for when aiming to create their own engine at the same time as developing an mmorpg. Andrew had the knowledge, drive, and skills, but there's no way their team was ever large enough for that goal. It's not a scam though as first hand I can confirm they were really working on this stuff and creating things. The failure was, at some point, throwing away honestly and transparency as progress starting clearly being much slower than expected. Then later digging a deeper hole with the refund stuff. In fairness to the original backing of Camelot Unchained, things were different in 2013 when it was funded and there was tons of great communication from the dev team throughout the kickstarter funding period. There was a ton of very technically detailed information and livestreams. There was plenty reason to be optimistic that they had a could create something great. And those communications even continued initially. I don't know where it all went downhill.. I didn't follow it very much after the first few months. I'm guessing it was merely from having 1/10th the amount of people needed to do what they proposed.
If Andrew didn't realize what an undertaking this was going to be, and that he would need a massive studio to do it, then he _didn't_ have the skills or knowledge fam. Yeah, of course the beginning would be great. The funding period is when you get all the money, you HAVE to convince people its going to be great. And after that was before they started running into all the hurdles of building an MMO. No one's shitting on the programmers or artists, either, and I'd like to point out they may not have passion for the game anymore. They may just be doing their job to the best of their ability so they can get paid. It's been a decade and this thing is still in alpha. So those updates you see may be impressive but they aren't pushing the game along fam. Again, not the employees fault, but it's the truth.
I haven't followed the whole saga, but my guess is that it's the typical MJ story? Overly ambitious goals, without the necessary resources to reach them. And then piling even more "cool ideas" aka feature creep, never reaching anything remotely functional.
@@gogudelagaze1585 the original design docs aren't at all very ambitious. there's plenty of low budget games like age of wushu and archeage that fully realize much if not all of what's in those docs. but yeah there was feature creep in trying to go overboard on player counts and shoehorning the shitty voxel thing in with CUBE that wasn't in any of the original design docs or kickstarter. and then randomly announcing new systems despite all of the previous stuff only being half started at best. and then of course there is the whole MJ spending all of his work hours clout chasing on MOP comment sections for many years.
I was on the verge of buying one of the large packs several times. But then something stopped me. Thanks Intuition. Man I loved DAOC. Somehow I still miss it today.
First ever Kickstarter I ever put $$$ towards. It was 100$ over a decade ago when I was a single man. I’ve since went through a relationship, two children 6 and 8 and a divorce and this game STILL isn’t out.
Yes, but Marc Jacobs was assholey then, too. I remember being on an online forum where there was a few flame wars around DAoC with Mark Jacobs posting his immortal "A COMPANY IS AT STEAK!" - he hired the guy running the forum and had him shut it down.
I'm really grateful for all the additional context of what had happened in the past since I'm a relative newcomer to the MMO community... I'll have to go back and find those videos on the main channel now since it sounds like an entertaining dumpster fire to observe lmao
"oh we're not making a metaverse. But if someone were to make a metaverse, our engine will be oddly well suited to that purpose. Perhaps we could even license this engine, which again totally isn't being made to make metaverses, but you know, would conveniently work well for that"
If this guy had just updated DAoC with a modern engine and graphics, it would have been a gold mine. Im guessing after Mythic was sold off to EA, he realized he didnt have anything tangible so now his focus is on the engine and not the game.
The development of this game and Chronicles of Elyria are reasons why Ashes of Creation's open development is so important. Show the people what you're working on, and people will wait forever.
Almost broke my neck with the double take I did on the title of this video. I saw "Camelot Unchained" but was thinking "Chronicles of Elyria" lol can you imagine them ever showing actual gameplay 😂
LOL, the Balls on that Guy when he basically said "I'm not obligued to give you Shit". He would be in a "Very Small Box" already if he ever tried to pull shit like that here.
Hadean by the way are a UK start-up focused on helping developers get better tech to run the ever increasingly demanding technology required to make games. They even used to have Epic backing them before the pivot to AI. Bad news, they're a Metaverse company through and through.
I gave up and requested a kickstarter refund in 2020 - at which point they gave me the run around for a month or so - until I pointed them at the UK Consumer Credit Act, that I still had a copy of their original refund promises, and the likelihood they would get a chargeback straight away. They then came out and told me that Mark personally had to authorise EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT before it could be issued - which is ridiculous in this day and age. I did eventually receive the refund, but as far as I am concerned this is little better than a Ponzi Scheme, especially using the game engine and assets to launch and sell a separate game whilst still not delivering content to the original backers........
"You wanna refund? We'll give it to you but you won't get to be a part of this experience anymore!" "Ok we'll take the refund" *Surprised Pikachu face*
What I've learned over the last few months is that MMORPG backers on Kickstarter and the like platforms fall all over themselves to hand their money, sight unseen, to some grand vision, and when the "unsophisticated, corrupt, and potentially compromised" individuals set fire to the millions of dollars they were entrusted with time and time again, everyone ends up with "Surprised Pikachu Face".
Hang on.. I remember when MJ first announced Final Stand Ragnarok that everyone that backed Camelot unchanged would get Final Stand Ragnarok for free.. lol I still haven't gotten my copy yet.. great vid btw :)
This one actually hurts me personally because not only did I love Jacobs' earlier releases in DAOC and Warhammer but I also backed Camelot unchained... To me, it's pretty obvious at this point. Time has passed them by.
I am honestly so glad that I was already so cynical about mmo's by the time projects like CU, CoE, AoC etc were announced, I was far too cynical to invest in anything before it was actually released. saved me so much money so far
What blows my mind is that this guy has a TON of experience. Warhammer Online imo is the best pvp mmorpg ever created, the framework for that game is near perfect.. Sure its janky, but all people wanted was that exact game again but cleaned up. That private server RoR was my lockdown game, and if they could ever recreate that.. or a version of that I would be extremely happy.. Marks clearly full of shit, a seasoned mmorpg developer shouldn't be struggling like this.
I backed this a long long time ago, was only like £110 and did end up getting a refund about 2 years ago. It took like 3 months for it to come through, but it did.
I'd presume the core DAoC audience (those who weren't minors when the game was in its heyday) are probably too busy wage-slaving, making their own game, raising their kids, retired or dead at this point honestly.
@@Cyromantik I was 11 years old when i started playing DAOC, Played an Albion Minstrel. So many fond memories fighting in darkness falls and what not. But like you said. Im 30 now... work over 40 hours a week, and have watched the mmo genre slowly die. Any hopes of seeing a resurrection of DAOC is all but lost.
So if I understood it correctly they are basically saying: "There is a limit to how much servers can do now but in the future maybe. Also we aren't selling this as a metaverse, but if get enough money sure we'll try it."
Bro, we have missed you! You look awesome. Cool flat too, and to be honest I have been thinking along the lines of moving there too but unlike you I am not a successful youtuber. So I still need to go to work, but we are glad to have you back man.🙏
i just dont understand why the backers arent treated as investors as well. they have every right to know exactly how their money is being spent as much as any other "real" investor
People blame EA for meddling to much with Warhammer Online back then and that that was the cause of its failing. Nah, it was the developer who kept on going and going without direction and EA after many years was like "Release the damn game we paid you for", pretty much what backers now shout about Camelot Unchained. Same developer, and we see the same with Star Citizen, when Microsoft had enough of the delays they kicked him off the project and let another team finish Free lancer. It's not always out of greedy intents that a publisher is forcing a studio to deliver on a time schedule.
star citizen is a very playable early access state with numerous gameplay loops and associated content and locations. star citizen in it's current state is legitimately comparable to some of the most successful and beloved open world online games such as GTAO and RDO. and you can talk stream youtube and so on freely the in game content because there's no NDA. CU calls itself beta and doesn't have a single gameplay loop and the maps and gameplay functions are half started and then abandoned stubs calling itself beta under NDA that the lead developer uses to troll people with then uses their refund policy to troll and abuse backers further then hasn't paid refunds in like 3 or 4 years now.
As far as the whole "Jacobs says he hopes to get a version of Final Standard...etc etc." I believe the impetus is on the "a", as in he hopes to get a different version out that utilizes the aforementioned tech. Not here to defend said tech, but that's how I interpreted the sentence
I funded this years ago, when it was fresh and exciting. Started small, made a few small upgrades to my package over a year or so. Money's gone as far as I am concerned, not worth the hassle of getting a refund from what, over 5 years ago? Lesson learnt 😅
Saw Camelot unchained in a list of top mmo's and thought wow I completely forgot about it, quick search and this is the first thing that pops up lol... I miss DAOC sometimes
the ideas of Camelot unchained were really nice, I liked the ideas and classes so much that I was tempted to donate via kickstarter , fortunately there were (back in the day) a few red flags (now the red flags are like you are in a Chinese communist party office).
the beta label is deceptive. there's not even a basic gameplay loop in CU still to this day. star citizen has a bounty of gameplay loops and variety of content and is legitimately fun for millions of players. CU is a collection of half started features and maps that have largely sat seemingly abandoned since their initial implementation with no sense of how any of it should fit together or contribute to gameplay. like CU isn't even as well developed as SC was in 2014.
@@SkyForceOne2 there is no similarities except they both used kickstarter at one point a decade ago. star citizen is a game you can play any time you like and talk about and share freely about. CU is a bare bones tech demo that doesn't even really have prototype state of gameplay and still has an NDA almost 5 years into "beta" which isn't even what the industry standard could be called pre alpha.
Chronicles of Elyria tried to make their own Engine as well, they scrapped it and rewrote it 3 different times changing the programming language each time..
Backer here, but I didn't put a lot down, as I didn't know when or if it would ever come out. Mark Jacobs seemed passionate, but I'd been burned on crowd funded projects before so I gave them $40 and put them in the back burner of my "wait and see" list. I feel neither glad nor vindicated by the current state of things, it always feels bad when a project stumbles or fails.
Ok, so I was one of the people that was super excited about this and was very happy to fund it. I stopped following it a very long time ago. This game actually went into Kickstart April of 2013. April 2nd of 2013. This has been one of the biggest and most incredible hoaxes I've ever seen and Mark Jacobs and CSE should have a class action lawsuit against them if you ask me. None of us have received what has been promised from pledging and the game is literally never going to be released. We all know this now and you have definitely brought into light in this video that Mark Jacobs has no plan to develop an actual game at this point.
They shift funding received to make a game to the engine, that way when the game inevitably flops they can license or sell the engine for an extra payday. How is this legal?
Kickstarter for Camelot unchained was in mid 2014 if I remember it correctly, If you try to see passed all the controversies. Then you can't really blame them for taking a long time to complete or present a functional product. While they have reached much much further from their Kickstarter, RSI's Star citizen KS was in 2012, was suppose to be released ~2014, obviously no one with a sane mind would complain about THAT game taking much longer to complete considering the huge funding it's received and still receives. with it's ~600 MILLION dollar funding so far and climbing steadily, hundreds upon hundreds of expert engineers/actual developers working on it, It's still 9 years late, and still in Alpha. Years back the Squadron 42 was announced to get released NEXT YEAR, forgot when it was, think it was 2016. When they announced all the fancy actors who'd be acting in that Prequel to the MMO universe. some 2 years later it had not been released yet and was announced to be released next year or something AGAIN, which of course never happened. Now 4 years later and there's not really anyone who's expecting SQ42 to get released anytime soon, and the MMO world to get released until a good while AFTER that first release, as it's suppose to be a Prequel to the mmo game, it has to come out first. So a hyped, especially by hardcore DAOC fans game like Camelot unchained which had some problems along the way losing a lot of money due to refunds (initially) Including my 5120usd pledge amount, CONvid and much more which most certainly draining the resources further. I have a hard time blaming him/them for that alone. RSI have nothing to really blame for their "failure" to deliver, while CSE actually do. Then add all the controversies involved, and it becomes a complete mess. My point was only to say that the time for the game to get released is not really an issue to be totally fair, it simply can't be. Game developing takes time, always does, and the more complicated the more time it will take. They made some f'd up decisions and couldn't keep up to their promises and it all turned into a scam rather then a "Sorry folks, we can't deliver, wish we could but we are bankrupt" Honesty will go a long way in most cases From my Internal involvement (until my refund) It seemed like most of the Grifters at least for the first 2/3 of the time from the KS was NON DAOC fans, the rest tended to not be in much hurry, they just wanted to get a somewhat similar game to DaoC with some new tech behind it. Anyways, it sucks it had to go this way, and couldn't expect too much from a Game-developer stationed in California, too much Diversity-hire and other stupid things going on. I had plenty of things to say about the stupid looks of many of the Artworks that were taken into the game, and it was obviously to not hurt anyone's feelings that even happened. Cuz those races just looked stupid oh and To be totally honest here, Jakobs promised officially, repeatedly and in the Kickstarter that IF the game would never get finished for some reason, or if it didn't go well. Then the Game/sourcecode/engine would become open-source, free to use by the backers/anyone. Peace out :)
@@SkyForceOne2 Not at all, I just made a fair comparison. They both ran a KS about the same time, They both had a very niche initial fanbase who loved the vision. They both got about the same amount from their Kickstarters, and almost the same planned release-dates planned. Very similar initial situation, and I did put a lot of weight on the "Take away all the controversies" The time alone for the game to get completed shouldn't be a reason to bash on it. It's not the first and certainly not the last that takes a long time to finish. Wasn't in any way shape or form a copium, nor a way to make one game look better then the other. Just pointed out the situation is quite similar, also RSI have been sued a lot for this reason. Difference would be, They can afford it all with their unlimited funding, and normal people who understand that complex things take time to create, don't care that it takes longer time to make it perfect.
@@rainlsd you got one thing wrong: CIG is actually, albeit slowly, delivering on their promise. If you make that comparison, you should also inform yourself how both projects are doing today. SC is playable and in an overall good state, with major core tech upgrades on the horizon. There is a reason they got above $100M in 2022. Granted, some people just spend their money no matter what. But the game already is worth $45 imo, if you have a few people to play it with, or a guild. And THAT is a massive difference to all these other "big-promise-kickstarters"
People really underestimate how much effort it takes to create a game in general, let alone a massively multiplayer one. If people like Mark Jacobs fail at delivering a game of this scale, this alone should tell you that you have to really, really know what you are doing to enter this space, and even then you should be prepared for the worst. This is yet another project that overpromised on what they could deliver. I don't think Jacobs had bad intentions, however at this stage it's just damage control on every level.
He had DAOC out the door in 18 months though, ok it was half finished at the time...but they tidied it up pretty nicely over the following 6 months. Not to defend them as clearly mistakes were made, but I still think this can happen to anyone, just take a glance over to UBIsoft and ask them when Skull & Crossbones is coming out for proof... 🤣🤣 If you haven't worked on a game with a "troubled" development, are you even a real dev at this point? 😁
@@memitim171 Sometimes I really wish developers would stop chasing the high end graphics and promising the sky and stars so much. All I want is a great game, I don't care if it has all the features in the world and the best assets. If the design is solid and the game has identity in its core and visuals, it will do well. If only we could go back to simpler times of DAOC, Lineage etc, those games lived and died by their core gameplay loop, and didn't require a decade of development. Unfortunately this is very rare for bigger studios these days.
"unless you funded this" -- yep, I am that idiot. I stopped caring half a decade ago. I met my wife in DAoC and we were excited about this game, we had faith in Mark and he flat out let us down.
Camelot Unchained and Chronicles of Elyria are STILL the most fascinating dumpster-fires I've ever seen in the MMORPG community.
Star Citizen has entered the chat and Chris Roberts was pulling this stuff for decades.
I dont really look at the two the same, the people behind Camelot unchained at least have history of delivering an actual mmo. Thats not true of the latter. Camelot unchained is to me an example of just needing to pull the plug and give it up.
You've never heard of otherland then
Yeah was that shitty RTS Kingdoms of Elyria ever released? I wish Kira would still follow what kind of 'updates' backers are getting now that they lost the case.
@@KallTech yeah. As stupid as the prices for the ships are it's an actual game.
Two of my buddies were hyped for this and got me hyped, convinced me to go in with them on some big packs. Totally worth it, any time I've fucked up and have my back against the wall with them I just whip this out like an emergency jet pack and they back off with some "fuk yeah my bad"
Lmao
😂
😂
Complaint equity is an underrated concept
@@Defenestrationed That's a better term than "social leverage"
I actually managed to get a refund for this--pretty sure it's due to the fact I had an incredibly low backer tier ($60) since I found out about CU while I was in uni. It took him 2 years to process my refund.
Going on 4, same amount, didn't get shit yet.
Why would you do this?!
@@planexshifter what, ask for a refund? Or back a MMO?
Lucky you. I asked for my refund in 2020. I sent another request august 2024 and just received an automated response. No money back.
My rule of thumb is: If they can't get running and jumping animations to look natural, you can't trust them to do anything of substance.
This. Animations being dogshit is a surefire way to recognize vapoware.
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Having good animations doesnt tell you anything about the underlying code. Animation files are completly independent from most engines and can be completly interchanged. Everyone can use the asset store to have smooth animations, but building strong logic and systems is mostly invisible unless you exactly know what you are looking for.
Mine is "If they can't make a good HUD then don't bother."
@@MK_ULTRA420Yeah okay, that one's straight up trash. Pretty much every online game you ever liked was once beta-tested by players with a shitty HUD.
@@platoaes both Jacobs' other MMOs were fantastic ideas that were horribly coded jankfests.
I really wanted this game to come out, was an old DAoC player and wanted a modern take on that in some way, shape, or form. But thanks to Kira's early on videos on this, I didn't put any backer money into it but simply waited until I hear more. Thanks Kira and the many others on this.
Dark Age was so awesome. i tried other MMOs like WOW and none of them held my interest. dark age had a great community too as far as i remember. had great guilds and some very entertaining shenanigans on the role playing servers.
it had insanely fun PVP.
Loved daoc, they had REAL quests where you actually had to figure out where to go 😂 fun times
@@Aybo1000 I wouldn't call kill tasks and delivery jobs as "real quests" XD
@@Biouke haha I was just a kid back then. They FELT like adventures. It was like go south and find some Beatles. 2 hours later I’d find them 🤣
@@Aybo1000 I get that. Even today I wonder how I could find my way around 😅
"I actually believe in the vision of a Metaverse" - that is all you need to see to understand what kind of a man he is
Just for comparison: The legendary, original Dark Age of Camelot had a development time of 18 months (!) with a team of 25 full-time developers and development cost of US$2.5 million. And that for a game with 3 realms, each having a unique graphical style.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot
this wiki is kind of misleading. DAOC was already created on paper and in a MUD it was called darkness falls. so the item database the mob list and the backstory/lore was already there. so alot of the process was already done before MJ and his team started dark age of camelot. look up spellbinder and darkness falls. as someone who still plays daoc. the classic spell effects werent that unique. but i will agree the first time i seen hibs str buff and that tree effect and the leaves falling was DOPE. look up death of dark age of camelot on youtube great watch..
CEO: “You want a refund? Fine. Go ahead; make the request.”
Backers: *requests refunds*
CEO: *Pikachu surprise face*
More like go on live stream and pretend to cry while begging people to believe him 😂 sad
the guy leaned on using that refund policy to be a dick to his customers on MOP for so long i don't think he realized that a sizable fraction of his customer base would seriously take him up on his offer. but he really was already long out of touch with the backers of this game and trying to build clout of all people MOP commenters 😂 most of whom are anti pvp carebears that want massively singleplayer online games.
@Noxti! Yeah, this!
I'm actually 40 by now and 10 years ago I was still more enthusiastic for PvP than I imagine I'll ever be again.
Totally happy with FFXIV by now and I cannot imagine me getting into a pure PvP game while also working a job in real life. I don't even know the me anymore who luckily only backed Camelot Unchained at the cheapest possible level.
@Noxti! okay that's fantastic but what does that have to do with mark focusing his marketing on people like you on MOP for a game that is almost pure pvp? i didn't imply a lack of awareness of why people might not want to pvp or solicit testimonials from people who don't like pvp. i was noting that mark spent gobs of real time canoodling and seeking praise from people that are 100% not the audience for this game instead of getting his work done as lead developer and designer. wow/w/e arenas and battle grounds aren't on the table for CU unless MJ randomly further bloats their feature creep. so why even bring them up? CU is intended to be a zerg vs zerg rvr game like yeah idk what the point of your reply here is.
also i'm 41. i still world pvp. i feel you on not wanting to deal with guild/raid drama or w/e but wtf does your reply have to do with anything i said or is any way relevant to CU?
@@Speaker4200 Not really my business and frankly, I dunno why I'm bothering with this since it's a month old and doesn't really matter at all, but
I believe the point of their reply was to respond to the derisive phrasing you used to refer to people who prefer a more casual style of gameplay in their MMOs: "anti pvp carebears that want massively singleplayer online games"
See, if you phrase things aggressively and judgmentally like that, it tends to make people want to reply in order to justify their perspective to you. The purpose of their reply was not to engage with anything you said about CU, but rather to make it clear to you that it's justified to enjoy something that you seem extremely dismissive toward. Which is, in fact, very much related to something you said, because not every subject of your comment *was* CU in the first place.
Even i'm not a backer it broke my heart. DaoC was such a great game and our guild was hoping to come together for Unchained in *check notes* 2013. Some people are dead now, so i think it will never happen.
Damn, what a shame.
When I first heard about Camelot Unchained, I was sad I'd missed the start of the saga. Now I'm just glad I didn't put any money in. Thanks, Kira!
I was a devoted DAoC player back in 2001-2005, and was super stoked when CU was announced. Funded it immediately. So much potential with the ideas.
11 years later, I've given up on this completely. I'm not too bothered about a refund as it as I funded at a low tier.
Yeah, the saddest thing about this is that they started off with the tech to handle their core ideas, that foundation is definitely there, and it's being held hostage.
@@Blueprint4Murder God tier level cope
I never supported this project financially, but I watched it for several years with some degree of excitement. I remember reading all the dev blogs, watching the videos they put out, as well as the livestreams -- eventually losing interest after years of little to no actual progress.
Kind of sad to remember it, search it up on RUclips, and find all of this out. RIP
It's been an ordeal for sure. We'll see how this works out. Thanks for covering this, Kira!
I backed initially then completely forgot until about a year ago 😂 I have a very chequered history with backing games and projects with ones like this and star citizen but also solid ones like Flipper Zero and Elite Dangerous.
I stopped backing games after star citizen though really. Although have had fun during testing on that tbh
@Kira, thanks so much for this video and covering this. I had totally forgot I dropped money on this also. I had to be a good decade ago or more iirc(thinking where I was working at the time I became a backer). I'm pretty sure I gave 120. And from what I remember the last time the release date I saw was 2015 and I just gave up. I might go to my credit union and see what I can do.
I can tell you what you can do fam, go through the company for a refund. Chargebacks have time limits, and no country or bank or card is going to do anything a decade later.
You will have to go through the company, the comment above me is correct. Chargebacks are typically not honored past about a year or 2 at the very long end. Since it is a credit union you may have a chance as they are typically willing to go a bit further for their customers. Wish you the best
I like how Andrew's goodbye post was basically a "FU sleazeball" to Jacobs 👍
Haven't heard from Camelot Unchained in a while. Thanks for the update.
Glad you're back and everything seems to ended alright Kira.
Good to see you back. If you ever leave like that again, don’t worry, we will all be here waiting, ready to support your channel. Do what tou gotta do.
Glad you're back Kira I missed your videos :)
I remember when I started playing Guild Wars 2 I met so many players in WvW that came from DAoC and Warhammer online. So many of them told me that they were just waiting for Unchained to release and how it would kill all the PvP in all other MMO's. 9 years later and this game still hasn't launched.
Reminds me of “Star Citizen”
@@planexshifter Star Citizen has actual decent, while lacking story content, gameplay though.
@@SkyForceOne2 Then 3.18.x came along and the "decent" part was removed...
9 years later and their news letters and updates containing CONCEPT ART only and and no gameplay. Seriously 10 years for concept art.
I didn't hear about Andrew leaving. That's the end of CU. Andrew I truly feel put in tons of effort and had great intentions and hope for the game. In fact I have no doubts that at least the initial team put in 110% effort trying to make this thing happen. In fact, I can still see that at least some of the team is still actively making an effort on CU based on things I have access to (one of the higher tier original backer packages). That's why it's been tough for me to want to request a refund but now with Andrew gone I feel like the chance of a finish game dropped to about 1%.
I don't think they fully understood what they were in for when aiming to create their own engine at the same time as developing an mmorpg. Andrew had the knowledge, drive, and skills, but there's no way their team was ever large enough for that goal. It's not a scam though as first hand I can confirm they were really working on this stuff and creating things. The failure was, at some point, throwing away honestly and transparency as progress starting clearly being much slower than expected. Then later digging a deeper hole with the refund stuff.
In fairness to the original backing of Camelot Unchained, things were different in 2013 when it was funded and there was tons of great communication from the dev team throughout the kickstarter funding period. There was a ton of very technically detailed information and livestreams. There was plenty reason to be optimistic that they had a could create something great. And those communications even continued initially. I don't know where it all went downhill.. I didn't follow it very much after the first few months. I'm guessing it was merely from having 1/10th the amount of people needed to do what they proposed.
If Andrew didn't realize what an undertaking this was going to be, and that he would need a massive studio to do it, then he _didn't_ have the skills or knowledge fam. Yeah, of course the beginning would be great. The funding period is when you get all the money, you HAVE to convince people its going to be great. And after that was before they started running into all the hurdles of building an MMO.
No one's shitting on the programmers or artists, either, and I'd like to point out they may not have passion for the game anymore. They may just be doing their job to the best of their ability so they can get paid. It's been a decade and this thing is still in alpha. So those updates you see may be impressive but they aren't pushing the game along fam. Again, not the employees fault, but it's the truth.
I haven't followed the whole saga, but my guess is that it's the typical MJ story? Overly ambitious goals, without the necessary resources to reach them. And then piling even more "cool ideas" aka feature creep, never reaching anything remotely functional.
@@gogudelagaze1585 the original design docs aren't at all very ambitious. there's plenty of low budget games like age of wushu and archeage that fully realize much if not all of what's in those docs. but yeah there was feature creep in trying to go overboard on player counts and shoehorning the shitty voxel thing in with CUBE that wasn't in any of the original design docs or kickstarter. and then randomly announcing new systems despite all of the previous stuff only being half started at best. and then of course there is the whole MJ spending all of his work hours clout chasing on MOP comment sections for many years.
@@Speaker4200 Thanks for explaining. Oof, that sounds extremely disappointing..
If a person can’t handle their own money then they certainly can’t handle others. People need to wake up to these scams.
I was on the verge of buying one of the large packs several times. But then something stopped me. Thanks Intuition.
Man I loved DAOC. Somehow I still miss it today.
I think all we ever wanted was DAOC 2 how this became so difficult to achieve is beyond me, at this stage its obvious it was never going to happen.
What a shame. Glad I never invested.
Mark Jacobs has done a runner with everyone's cash, again...
First ever Kickstarter I ever put $$$ towards. It was 100$ over a decade ago when I was a single man.
I’ve since went through a relationship, two children 6 and 8 and a divorce and this game STILL isn’t out.
DAoC was one of the greatest PvP experiences in the early 2000s
Yes, but Marc Jacobs was assholey then, too. I remember being on an online forum where there was a few flame wars around DAoC with Mark Jacobs posting his immortal "A COMPANY IS AT STEAK!" - he hired the guy running the forum and had him shut it down.
The game feels outdated, obviously, but PvP or RvR still has that spark that most, even modern games don't have.
I love how you released like a ton of videos after a long, i missed u man
I was really looking forward to this....back when I was still a minor
I'm really grateful for all the additional context of what had happened in the past since I'm a relative newcomer to the MMO community... I'll have to go back and find those videos on the main channel now since it sounds like an entertaining dumpster fire to observe lmao
Ohhhhh yeah, watching Kira's videos on 'Chronicles of Elyria' is hours of entertainment.
Holy shit I forgot that Camelot Unchained existed haha
No worries, so did Jacobs.
>human man tears
>man tears
bro, those don't exist.
"oh we're not making a metaverse. But if someone were to make a metaverse, our engine will be oddly well suited to that purpose. Perhaps we could even license this engine, which again totally isn't being made to make metaverses, but you know, would conveniently work well for that"
If this guy had just updated DAoC with a modern engine and graphics, it would have been a gold mine. Im guessing after Mythic was sold off to EA, he realized he didnt have anything tangible so now his focus is on the engine and not the game.
The development of this game and Chronicles of Elyria are reasons why Ashes of Creation's open development is so important. Show the people what you're working on, and people will wait forever.
CU and COE weren't showing people what they were working on because there was nothing to show 😂
Almost broke my neck with the double take I did on the title of this video. I saw "Camelot Unchained" but was thinking "Chronicles of Elyria" lol can you imagine them ever showing actual gameplay 😂
I will have died of old age before that game is made.
At least the Improbable OS title lives up to its name
LOL, the Balls on that Guy when he basically said "I'm not obligued to give you Shit". He would be in a "Very Small Box" already if he ever tried to pull shit like that here.
Hadean by the way are a UK start-up focused on helping developers get better tech to run the ever increasingly demanding technology required to make games. They even used to have Epic backing them before the pivot to AI. Bad news, they're a Metaverse company through and through.
Just when my weekend was looking down, Kira shows up!
I gave up and requested a kickstarter refund in 2020 - at which point they gave me the run around for a month or so - until I pointed them at the UK Consumer Credit Act, that I still had a copy of their original refund promises, and the likelihood they would get a chargeback straight away. They then came out and told me that Mark personally had to authorise EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT before it could be issued - which is ridiculous in this day and age. I did eventually receive the refund, but as far as I am concerned this is little better than a Ponzi Scheme, especially using the game engine and assets to launch and sell a separate game whilst still not delivering content to the original backers........
PS I still have the emails from the company as proof of their shady tactics.......
The king is back. Glad to see more video game and nonsense videos again
"You wanna refund? We'll give it to you but you won't get to be a part of this experience anymore!"
"Ok we'll take the refund"
*Surprised Pikachu face*
Jacobs sold everyone a hamburger and built himself a burger joint on everyone else's dime
took balls but congrats I guess
Off-topic but I noticed you did a great job stifling the air conditioner unit sound, considering how loud it was in the last video.
What I've learned over the last few months is that MMORPG backers on Kickstarter and the like platforms fall all over themselves to hand their money, sight unseen, to some grand vision, and when the "unsophisticated, corrupt, and potentially compromised" individuals set fire to the millions of dollars they were entrusted with time and time again, everyone ends up with "Surprised Pikachu Face".
Honestly, that statement by ol' dude was pretty sly and corporate. lmao loved it.
Hang on.. I remember when MJ first announced Final Stand Ragnarok that everyone that backed Camelot unchanged would get Final Stand Ragnarok for free.. lol I still haven't gotten my copy yet.. great vid btw :)
"Crying physical man tears" mad me laugh more than it should have.
This one actually hurts me personally because not only did I love Jacobs' earlier releases in DAOC and Warhammer but I also backed Camelot unchained... To me, it's pretty obvious at this point. Time has passed them by.
I am honestly so glad that I was already so cynical about mmo's by the time projects like CU, CoE, AoC etc were announced, I was far too cynical to invest in anything before it was actually released. saved me so much money so far
I'm actually surprised you haven't made any videos on The Day Before. That entire fiasco seems right up your alley.
At 16:20 I believe the wording used was "final" version, meaning beyond early access.
Just searched that ragnorak,your vid and the launch trailer are literally the only vids of it on youtube
What blows my mind is that this guy has a TON of experience. Warhammer Online imo is the best pvp mmorpg ever created, the framework for that game is near perfect.. Sure its janky, but all people wanted was that exact game again but cleaned up. That private server RoR was my lockdown game, and if they could ever recreate that.. or a version of that I would be extremely happy.. Marks clearly full of shit, a seasoned mmorpg developer shouldn't be struggling like this.
16:31 Oh that profil pic of yours. Based. Absolutely good taste sir. That franchise is lit.
geez. I've heard of this game...and forgotten about it...at least twice.
I backed this a long long time ago, was only like £110 and did end up getting a refund about 2 years ago. It took like 3 months for it to come through, but it did.
You should look at MTGO. It's been beta since actual release. It's like that so if something breaks and people lose stuff they can just be like oopsie
Ah, I’ll have to keep just admiring the character art, I love the fae races.
finally back with the mmo and metaverse/crypto videos, boy am i glad having you back
At this point they're way, waaaay too late to capture the Dark Age of Camelot experience.
I'd presume the core DAoC audience (those who weren't minors when the game was in its heyday) are probably too busy wage-slaving, making their own game, raising their kids, retired or dead at this point honestly.
@@Cyromantik I was 11 years old when i started playing DAOC, Played an Albion Minstrel. So many fond memories fighting in darkness falls and what not. But like you said. Im 30 now... work over 40 hours a week, and have watched the mmo genre slowly die. Any hopes of seeing a resurrection of DAOC is all but lost.
Maybe he should design and market a bluetooth speaker you can wear on your chest as you workout ..... that market must be wide open now.
So if I understood it correctly they are basically saying: "There is a limit to how much servers can do now but in the future maybe. Also we aren't selling this as a metaverse, but if get enough money sure we'll try it."
It is utterly funny how you have to whisper or we will hear a mad echo
Bro, we have missed you! You look awesome.
Cool flat too, and to be honest I have been thinking along the lines of moving there too but unlike you I am not a successful youtuber.
So I still need to go to work, but we are glad to have you back man.🙏
Maybe ownership of the engine they develped on Kickstarter dime should be transferred to all the people who funded it.
i dunno best news to day about CU, they should focus 100% on the engine and sell it so competent devs can make great games of it
i just dont understand why the backers arent treated as investors as well. they have every right to know exactly how their money is being spent as much as any other "real" investor
I like this Kira content more than the watchmojo avenue he went down
Then watch these videos and not the others.
Cheers for the upload!
Even 11 years….obviously this game will never se the light of day
People blame EA for meddling to much with Warhammer Online back then and that that was the cause of its failing. Nah, it was the developer who kept on going and going without direction and EA after many years was like "Release the damn game we paid you for", pretty much what backers now shout about Camelot Unchained. Same developer, and we see the same with Star Citizen, when Microsoft had enough of the delays they kicked him off the project and let another team finish Free lancer. It's not always out of greedy intents that a publisher is forcing a studio to deliver on a time schedule.
star citizen is a very playable early access state with numerous gameplay loops and associated content and locations. star citizen in it's current state is legitimately comparable to some of the most successful and beloved open world online games such as GTAO and RDO. and you can talk stream youtube and so on freely the in game content because there's no NDA. CU calls itself beta and doesn't have a single gameplay loop and the maps and gameplay functions are half started and then abandoned stubs calling itself beta under NDA that the lead developer uses to troll people with then uses their refund policy to troll and abuse backers further then hasn't paid refunds in like 3 or 4 years now.
@@Speaker4200 while SC has more impressive technology, graphics, and interactability with the world, gameplay loops and content are beyond sparse
@@SkyForceOne2 CU has literally no gameplay loop. and SC has more gameplay loops than the average wow clone wtf are you talking about? lmao.
As far as the whole "Jacobs says he hopes to get a version of Final Standard...etc etc." I believe the impetus is on the "a", as in he hopes to get a different version out that utilizes the aforementioned tech.
Not here to defend said tech, but that's how I interpreted the sentence
I'm glad I was piss poor at that time, that prevented me from backing CU and CrowFall.
Kira you’re the best son, keep styling on them. Btw I NEED more earth 2 and Arya content!!!
I filed a refund for CU over 2.5 years ago... still haven't gotten it. They also don't appear to respond to any emails.
Nice Video. Welcome Back. I think, thats a Game.
I'm seeing a trend here where people promise awesome stuff, get money, then run away. Crazy to think about. It's almost like a scam most of the time 🤯
Im so happy you're back to making videos again.
I remember watching an old video of yours related to this😲
I funded this years ago, when it was fresh and exciting. Started small, made a few small upgrades to my package over a year or so. Money's gone as far as I am concerned, not worth the hassle of getting a refund from what, over 5 years ago? Lesson learnt 😅
Saw Camelot unchained in a list of top mmo's and thought wow I completely forgot about it, quick search and this is the first thing that pops up lol... I miss DAOC sometimes
Daoc still exists
i was mistaken thinking this was the late Brad Mcquaid's work, it was Pantheon not this game!
the ideas of Camelot unchained were really nice, I liked the ideas and classes so much that I was tempted to donate via kickstarter , fortunately there were (back in the day) a few red flags (now the red flags are like you are in a Chinese communist party office).
hey yo, hope ya been well great to see ya !
Beta after a decade, Star citizen can only dream of that....
the beta label is deceptive. there's not even a basic gameplay loop in CU still to this day. star citizen has a bounty of gameplay loops and variety of content and is legitimately fun for millions of players. CU is a collection of half started features and maps that have largely sat seemingly abandoned since their initial implementation with no sense of how any of it should fit together or contribute to gameplay. like CU isn't even as well developed as SC was in 2014.
Star Citizen has way more gameplay than this shit though? Ignorance must be pretty high to even find similarities between the two
@@SkyForceOne2 there is no similarities except they both used kickstarter at one point a decade ago. star citizen is a game you can play any time you like and talk about and share freely about. CU is a bare bones tech demo that doesn't even really have prototype state of gameplay and still has an NDA almost 5 years into "beta" which isn't even what the industry standard could be called pre alpha.
I'd always wondered what happened to worlds adrift. now it all makes sense
Lazarus was another SpatialOS MMO that bit the dust.
Chronicles of Elyria tried to make their own Engine as well, they scrapped it and rewrote it 3 different times changing the programming language each time..
Why not just used a pre built engine
Thanks for covering this 😄
Backer here, but I didn't put a lot down, as I didn't know when or if it would ever come out. Mark Jacobs seemed passionate, but I'd been burned on crowd funded projects before so I gave them $40 and put them in the back burner of my "wait and see" list. I feel neither glad nor vindicated by the current state of things, it always feels bad when a project stumbles or fails.
New place looks lovely mate
Ok, so I was one of the people that was super excited about this and was very happy to fund it. I stopped following it a very long time ago. This game actually went into Kickstart April of 2013. April 2nd of 2013. This has been one of the biggest and most incredible hoaxes I've ever seen and Mark Jacobs and CSE should have a class action lawsuit against them if you ask me. None of us have received what has been promised from pledging and the game is literally never going to be released. We all know this now and you have definitely brought into light in this video that Mark Jacobs has no plan to develop an actual game at this point.
They shift funding received to make a game to the engine, that way when the game inevitably flops they can license or sell the engine for an extra payday. How is this legal?
Kickstarter for Camelot unchained was in mid 2014 if I remember it correctly, If you try to see passed all the controversies. Then you can't really blame them for taking a long time to complete or present a functional product.
While they have reached much much further from their Kickstarter, RSI's Star citizen KS was in 2012, was suppose to be released ~2014, obviously no one with a sane mind would complain about THAT game taking much longer to complete considering the huge funding it's received and still receives.
with it's ~600 MILLION dollar funding so far and climbing steadily, hundreds upon hundreds of expert engineers/actual developers working on it, It's still 9 years late, and still in Alpha.
Years back the Squadron 42 was announced to get released NEXT YEAR, forgot when it was, think it was 2016. When they announced all the fancy actors who'd be acting in that Prequel to the MMO universe.
some 2 years later it had not been released yet and was announced to be released next year or something AGAIN, which of course never happened. Now 4 years later and there's not really anyone who's expecting SQ42 to get released anytime soon, and the MMO world to get released until a good while AFTER that first release, as it's suppose to be a Prequel to the mmo game, it has to come out first.
So a hyped, especially by hardcore DAOC fans game like Camelot unchained which had some problems along the way losing a lot of money due to refunds (initially) Including my 5120usd pledge amount, CONvid and much more which most certainly draining the resources further. I have a hard time blaming him/them for that alone. RSI have nothing to really blame for their "failure" to deliver, while CSE actually do.
Then add all the controversies involved, and it becomes a complete mess. My point was only to say that the time for the game to get released is not really an issue to be totally fair, it simply can't be. Game developing takes time, always does, and the more complicated the more time it will take. They made some f'd up decisions and couldn't keep up to their promises and it all turned into a scam rather then a "Sorry folks, we can't deliver, wish we could but we are bankrupt"
Honesty will go a long way in most cases
From my Internal involvement (until my refund) It seemed like most of the Grifters at least for the first 2/3 of the time from the KS was NON DAOC fans, the rest tended to not be in much hurry, they just wanted to get a somewhat similar game to DaoC with some new tech behind it.
Anyways, it sucks it had to go this way, and couldn't expect too much from a Game-developer stationed in California, too much Diversity-hire and other stupid things going on. I had plenty of things to say about the stupid looks of many of the Artworks that were taken into the game, and it was obviously to not hurt anyone's feelings that even happened. Cuz those races just looked stupid
oh and To be totally honest here, Jakobs promised officially, repeatedly and in the Kickstarter that IF the game would never get finished for some reason, or if it didn't go well. Then the Game/sourcecode/engine would become open-source, free to use by the backers/anyone.
Peace out :)
youre huffing some Copium and trying to beat down on SC so your preferred game is pictured in a better light
@@SkyForceOne2 Not at all, I just made a fair comparison. They both ran a KS about the same time, They both had a very niche initial fanbase who loved the vision. They both got about the same amount from their Kickstarters, and almost the same planned release-dates planned.
Very similar initial situation, and I did put a lot of weight on the "Take away all the controversies" The time alone for the game to get completed shouldn't be a reason to bash on it. It's not the first and certainly not the last that takes a long time to finish.
Wasn't in any way shape or form a copium, nor a way to make one game look better then the other. Just pointed out the situation is quite similar, also RSI have been sued a lot for this reason. Difference would be, They can afford it all with their unlimited funding, and normal people who understand that complex things take time to create, don't care that it takes longer time to make it perfect.
@@rainlsd you got one thing wrong: CIG is actually, albeit slowly, delivering on their promise. If you make that comparison, you should also inform yourself how both projects are doing today. SC is playable and in an overall good state, with major core tech upgrades on the horizon. There is a reason they got above $100M in 2022. Granted, some people just spend their money no matter what. But the game already is worth $45 imo, if you have a few people to play it with, or a guild. And THAT is a massive difference to all these other "big-promise-kickstarters"
Fairfax county is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. There is no reason to have a video game company based there.
People really underestimate how much effort it takes to create a game in general, let alone a massively multiplayer one. If people like Mark Jacobs fail at delivering a game of this scale, this alone should tell you that you have to really, really know what you are doing to enter this space, and even then you should be prepared for the worst. This is yet another project that overpromised on what they could deliver. I don't think Jacobs had bad intentions, however at this stage it's just damage control on every level.
He had DAOC out the door in 18 months though, ok it was half finished at the time...but they tidied it up pretty nicely over the following 6 months. Not to defend them as clearly mistakes were made, but I still think this can happen to anyone, just take a glance over to UBIsoft and ask them when Skull & Crossbones is coming out for proof... 🤣🤣 If you haven't worked on a game with a "troubled" development, are you even a real dev at this point? 😁
@@memitim171 Sometimes I really wish developers would stop chasing the high end graphics and promising the sky and stars so much. All I want is a great game, I don't care if it has all the features in the world and the best assets. If the design is solid and the game has identity in its core and visuals, it will do well. If only we could go back to simpler times of DAOC, Lineage etc, those games lived and died by their core gameplay loop, and didn't require a decade of development. Unfortunately this is very rare for bigger studios these days.
"unless you funded this" -- yep, I am that idiot. I stopped caring half a decade ago. I met my wife in DAoC and we were excited about this game, we had faith in Mark and he flat out let us down.
Wow, never thought I heard about this again.