Prove it. kira.design Go buy some merch. Sub to my patreon: / kirayt Watch me on twitch: / kiraonttv Sub to my main youtube channel: / kiratv1 #quinfall #games #mmorpg
It was honestly so funny to me when they were saying things like "The local flora also corresponds to the biome." Like I mean, yeah. I sure hope it does. That's like, the most basic worldbuilding you can possible do.
The modern sales hype BS tries to turn the most mundane things into a grand achievements with idiotic sales-hype buzzwords. _"In our revolutionary interactive audiovisual gaming experience you take on the role of a realistic bipedal humanoid character and engage with the game's instance simulation system by controlling your character in a simulated space through innovative action relays like a mouse and a keyboard._ _As you send all manner of exciting and complex instructions to your character aka. "avatar", the audiovisual gaming experience registers your input and relays it to the in-depth simulation which actually alters the state of your humanoid avatar and it's location within the simulation in real time according to your instruction combinations! In. Real. Time!_ _Certain inputs can even direct your avatar to actively alter it's in-game location through simulated bipedal motion technology which interacts with our revolutionary G.R.O.U.N.D. simulation engine collision parameters... And that's only a singular major sidequest in our audiovisual gaming experience which pushes the boundaries of gaming technology into amazing new heights. Quite literally, as our carefully handcrafted, cost-effectively A.I. generated terrain height elevation system demonstrates..."_
“You can live as a medieval peasant… and also time travel to the future!” -instant DOA. Absolutely classic attempt to appeal to everyone and ultimately appealing to no one.
The thing is, it's possible if it doesn't take itself too seriously and/or doesn't draw attention to it. LaTale (and I _think_ MapleStory; haven't played it since it first came out) pulls it off. I personally love the whimsy of making a plain-old, sword and shield paladin that ends up wandering through pyramids with rabbit mummies, taking a submarine to Atlantis, and fighting through a candyland with living, cape-wearing french fries that use milkshakes as tommy guns and killer fish pastries that fly through the air. ...But, again, anything that does that CAN'T take itself too seriously. Either that, or be unapologeticly anime/cartoony. XD Latale's also more of a beat 'em up than anything. Not exactly a game you go to "live" in.
Bruh the biggest flex an MMORPG startup could try to do is actually provide actual content and feature a hud in the trailers and show it being actually used
That's such a depressing standard but you're absolutely correct. If a game actually shows REAL GAMEPLAY with a hud and someone literally just... walking around opening menus and shit; I'm 100% sold. The moment I don't see anything like that I know it's a complete scam.
narrator: "Quinfall is a world where anything is possible--" Heckler from the audience: "what if I want to breed elephants?" narrator: "Uhh...yes, you can breed elephants in this incredible fantasy experience--" Heckler: "we want time travel!" narrator: "...really? Okay, fine...And you can travel through time!"
I'm really hoping they threw in "meta" just because it's a buzzword nowadays, to attract attention (maybe they had the good ol' "all pr is good pr" thing in mind?) and the game is just a normal MMO. I mean, it says meta world not metaverse. But of course who the ef knows
Word soup is how you attract hedge fund investors (aka loan sharks). If its primary investors are focused in AI and Fintech, gaming industry is just their mark to milk. This will be trash sadly
I was thinking the same thing. I was like alright this doesn’t look too bad. Won’t pre order but may try it out if it ever comes out, then time traveling…. Nope
It's not as hard as people make it to be, the only hard part is setting up the servers and making the assets. Now that there's AI generated code it's even easier. Making an MMO is easy, making it good looking is hard.
I think the "disconnect" you're feeling is the combat looks floaty, there doesn't look like there's any weight to the hits. As for the AI, I know a modder incorporated a rudimentary ChatGPT interface for villagers in Bannerlord, which gives them the ability to reply to anything you type, even something along those lines creating dynamic quests is a step in the right direction.
I remember some vr mod where they added a chat ai and a speech to text parser so you could talk to randoms on the street. Was about as sane as talking to randoms on the street irl lol
That and/or the environments are obviously far from complete. They don't look like a naturally populated game world, they look like empty alpha stage maps the devs plopped some enemy spawns into just for the trailer.
That is the combat problem. We saw scenes of both one on one and a massive battle against a flying robot. This game does not know if it wants Dark Souls combat or GuildWars2 "80 people smack a big dragon"-combat. Someone said "both" it feels like in too many aspects of this game, someone said "all of it" instead of chosing.
The combat looks and feels floaty in ESO also. That's not the biggest problem. The problem is that they are kinda overreaching and "putting everything in the pot instantly hoping that it'll turn out into an edible meal"
Major, major Chronicles of Elyria vibes. From the "exhaustive descriptions" ("fauna will correspond to the biome" type of stuff) to the "you can do 3843573538538 things and even own peasants", with the slow-mo walk around the world, etc. Quick research on the studio: -Based in Istanbul. -Founded in 2021. -Company size: 11-50 employees Yeah, don't think it's going to be what they say it will be, unless they're 12 years in development.
Right? You're looking at a decade or more of development and even if they get it launched its never going to be supported. AoC has a much bigger team now and it'll be a decade of development before it releases
IKR...so tired of Studios going for the "we're the biggest game world ever" goal. It does absolutely nothing for the actual game and players. I don't give a damn about the size of your game, will it actually innovate, give me replayability, etc. So many games I feel missed their potential because they focused so much on size instead of fun/replayability in various genres.
@@coldcrush5921 Come back to me in a few years, if I get off my lazy arse. I figured, there's not a single game out there that encompasses what I want, so it's high time to play around with Blender and Unity and see if I have the drive to make something I want. Probably the only way to get what you want is to learn everything yourself. Downside is you may end up sick of your game along the way. I have pretty high respect for modders doing content for free.
@@coldcrush5921 THIS RIGHT HERE! Give me a world that feels like a damn world, a world I'm actually a part of with others. If that cost a little on the visual front...SO BE IT!
"Enemy population which dynamically changes" Ah yes, we haven't learnt anything from Ultima Online. "Every item you gather is vital to your survival and progress" Because having full bags from hoarding useless items you can't bring yourself to get rid of wasn't a problem already in MMOs.
I've always wanted an mmo that has more to do than raids, quests and PVP. I've yet to find a game that really captures the experience of stepping into a tavern with your mates and just hanging out for a bit after a rough adventure. Downtime makes you appreciate the action more
This fits my theory for why I think MMORPGs are popular but 'always' fails. My theory is that a big draw of MMORPGs is their ability to provide people a feeling of belonging/recognition(almost the same thing), its why clan/guilds are popular, its why people want to be a crafter etc. Your "stepping into a tavern with your mates and just hanging out for a bit after a rough adventure. Downtime makes you appreciate the action more" is at least in my opinion a perfect example of this, though in a fairly specific scenario. I doubt it would hurt your experience if there were other groups of players there who would give you the other side of the coin, aka recognition, by simply asking how your last dive into the swamp dungeon went now that you returned. If anything that would probably just be the cherry on top. Unfortunately the sense of belonging/recognition follows tightly with the scale of the world and how much "useless/boring" stuff has been cut away. Make things too convenient with fast travel and global auction houses etc and the focus moves from the local players to the top 1% players on the entire server. It also breeds a sense of need for powergaming if you can hop around different dungeons with no downtime, no way that kind of player will go sit down in a tavern. Waste of time. So the true enemy to MMORPGs is probably the players and the devs all wanting a BIG WORLD but not knowing WHY they actually wanted it in the first place and then introducing a bunch of features that in directly guts the experience everyone is looking for. Sorry for wall-of-texting you but I just thought it was interesting how your simple wish for a tavern experience probably goes a bit deeper than most people, or perhaps yourself, have bothered to think about and how that can explain why most new MMORPGs never hits the mark since modern MMORPGs often come with a bunch of these 'convenience' features by default.
That's more of a community issue than a game issue, I'd think. I know with ESO there's tonnes of RP guilds where people just log in to just hang and chat and role play as their characters. Half the time I'm playing I'm just farting about the map talking to NPCs and appreciating the landscape, and quite often a lot of zone chat turns into people functionally shitposting with the world lore (especially when an event is on and people are waiting between boss spawns, the jokes and memes flow like water.) I'd say keep trying different MMOs. Try some of the ones that are underrated or where the wiki is chock full of lore and trivia instead of min-max advice.
@@TheHuffur this is great inspiration, I've even considered a game set in a tavern myself, not sure what it would be about, but I guess the one thing hearthstone gets right is you fell warm and cosy at the tavern! I want more of that feeling.
Looking at this just makes me think: "Why couldn't this just be a Singleplayer or perhaps two-player co-op game?" I think it looks like it would fit that type of game better.
Am I the only one, who just wants a simple, targeting-based MMO (as in the old days), where I can play mostly with one hand, sip some coffee and do some dungeons with my friends? I don't want any ambitious projects that will flop after a month, or some hardcore action pvp games with dead servers. The most fun I had were games like Eden Eternal or NeoSteam, where I picked a class and grinded with my friends while chatting and eating chips.
my experience of the cycle of hype, cope and disappointment from playing new world has given me a sort of visceral reaction to this style of graphic/game
I agree with your AI sentiment, and that's my feelings too. It's great as a general "tweener" for ideas that are too hard to create solo. It opens up a world of opportunities for small creators without a big studio budget. But "biggest MMO?" if you believe that, I have a jpeg of my yard to sell you.
I must have that jpeg, and I bid you 5 million tokens of my own cryptocurrency for it, valued at 6,8 billion dollars. (The ability to sell tokens and cash out is not yet implemented, but it will be released about two days after my completely unrelated trip to Dubai.)
@bificommander it's available as a limited run NFT. Small print disclaimer - nft only contains coordinates to locate the yard, not the yard itself, nor any legal claim on said yard.
It's more of a "treasure map" to a jpeg of my yard that can be changed at any time. I'm starting the bidding at 29 eth. It's guaranteed to go bull even in a bear market. 🚀🌙 #tothemoon #notfinancialadvice #notafinancialadvisor
Nothing quite like the pure adrenaline thru the veins of hearing what amounts to 'brand new never seen before state of the art' and then that royalty free pan flute music starts that every medieval thing ever uses
I thought to myself "they've 100% hired a British voice actor, this won't be a British company" - yup, based in Istanbul, founded in 2021 (nothing against Turkish folx, quite the opposite, just think it's more honest to have someone from the actual team to talk to prospective customers in this setting). CEO has his LinkedIn set to private but their lead narrative writer is on an all female Turkish eSports team so that's kinda cool? But can't see any experience of any MMOs or anything on the 5 employees so yeah I think this will be vaporware.
@@civisj Vaporware means software thats announced, but never comes out and just disappears. Vaporwave is a artistic and musical genre that remixes 1990's music, muzak, and aesthetics, primarily of computers and the internet of the '90's, to create art meant to critique the capitalistic consummerism of the time.
@@civisj lmao I meant vaporware my phone autocorrected it. Vaporware is where you develop something, put it up for development (or pre orderssss) and never deliver anything substantial. Vaporwave is a music and art style lol
Yeah. The real test comes in winter next year - if they're still around by this time next year, then they might release... something. Right known they seem to be part of an 18 month game-focused start-up incubator run by a Turkish university. Seems as if they entered a about year ago, so they have at least 6 months left under that programme.
play Kingdoms of Amalurm for a singple player mmo feel, single player mmos always end up feeling super empty....most of these mmos couldnt even make up the content of the first fable game
@@Slvl710 you mean kingdoms of amalur? that game is legit awful. If you want a single player "mmo" play final fantasy XII it's literally in the design.
I recently found your content and enjoy your videos on both channels. I don't have time for MMOs these days but I love your deep dives into the corruption behind many Kickstarter projects promising the world and deliver little to nothing.
Probably somone said this before and I didn't have time to watch the full video. But what's probably troubling about gameplay footage is the lack of impact of the skills onto the enemies. Animation doesn't carry weight so you feel that "disconnection" you were mentionning. Like the monsters are not actually ehre and the character is hitting in the void because there's not enough feedback on the hit beign carried on to the monster model. I don't know if I'm saying this right but you get the idea. Two models not really existing in the same space is the result.
The AI generated game world shard idea made me realize the first company that can make a build your adventure survival or MORPG game could really change up the market. You would still use an AI, but where the game master can feed the story beats and kind of world seed theme he wants to generate to the AI, and then he would control world events, weather, and climates, operating as a game master in D&D. Just a AI world gen RPG kit with some great editing tools for quest dialogue, events, and just let people make their own weapons, armors, monsters, classes, and bosses to share with the community that can be fed into the world creation kit.
I've tried something like that in RPGmaker and it's really easy to softlock unless you make it a Roguelike or you program a solution for every possible continuity error. Add more than one player and I'd rather just DM a 20-person DnD campaign than try to create order out of chaos.
It came out of nowhere, and the world looks interesting, but I've been warned that it's suspect. For now, don't give them your e-mail address. So far, they did not even bother to send an automatic reply, and suspiciously, the "Beta Test" link disappears after a minute. No details on the website at all.
I totally want an MMO where the AI can act like a dungeon master and generate little quests for you and then somehow these all work together into a larger world narrative so the world changes over time depending on what people do. Of course, it will be primitive compared to what a human would create but this would still be awesome
@@ShaCaro yeah even a multiplayer version of that would be something I'd definitely play. The dream I think is always to automate tabletop roleplaying with the resulting infinite content a computer could bring. may take a while til procgen is really at that point though
"...so the world changes over time depending on what people do..." - I've thought about this as a feature before, more than once, and even though it sounds quite nice on paper (or in movies or anime), practically speaking, it's a terrible idea. It would create a tremendous amount of "fear of missing out" for the majority of people as a lot of things might start feeling like an obligation rather than doing them just for fun, because there might be some item / currency you might not get (this is just a basic example) which could very likely affect future game endeavors. Similar ideas usually occur when you assume everyone's got the same amount of time to play the game or are willing to invest that time into it. In reality, a lot of the playerbase might be able to do 4-6h of gaming sessions a day, some only 2h a day, some only 4-8h a week, while others could easily do 12-14h a day. It sucks, but it's how it is. :S A bit of a grander scale example: Let's pretend you have "World A" which contains two NPCs, "NPC 1" and "NPC 2", where both of those have their unique quests which give unique gear and lore. Now, suppose there's an event once a month which players need to do during a specific week. There's a little public counter showing how many more "special quests" in total need to be done in order for the event to be considered completed. Assuming 80% of the total existing player base (e.g. 100.000 people), and I'm being extremely generous (realistically it would most likely be around 60% - though, I'm just speculating based on experience), have done the two NPC quests and gotten the rewards. After "World A" becomes "World B", you have 20.000 players who missed out on one or both of the rewards of those NPCs, because they either had to do extra hours at work, take care of their kids or other family members, had to deal with some sort of paper work requiring a lot of bureaucracy, exams, etc. - which might have easily been the reason they bought the game in the first place. Granted, you can't please everyone, but constantly changing MMO worlds generate more negativity for people that do not have consistent gaming schedules, which tends to be quite a substantial part of it. How can you solve some of the problems this feature presents? - You could make the event take a few months to complete / take in effect. This way, it still changes but it gives a more reasonable amount of time for most people to participate and / or do content which might not be available afterwards. What is NOT a solution? 1) Making the NPCs still available in any shape or form. It breaks immersion and adds to the lack of consequences in the game world. 2) Making the unique items not very important / strong (so people don't feel like they missed out on much). In other words... useless - and if they are useless, why have them in the first place? Creating items that serve little to no purpose is bad game design. Unfortunately, many studios are guilty of this practice. There are some details I didn't mention or things I could elaborate on by giving more examples, but I doubt many folks will be reading this anyway. One thing is for sure though, people MUST BE made aware the world could change with time and that they might not get to do some of the features which were presented in a web post / trailer / etc. in a more than clear manner in order to avoid, more than likely, negativity from said people (though, you could just put it in the Terms of Services / Terms of Use if you just don't give two shits about 'em and legal problems is all you care about as is the standard with most companies, big or small).
@@JohnSmith-eg6bl I understand what you're saying here but I think such a game would have to be looked at completely differently than your typical themepark MMO where everyone ends up doing pretty much the same thing or even a sandbox where the amount of stuff you can do is very limited. Think about joining a group in a tabletop game where you obviously know you won't get to experience all the things the other players already did before you got there and you won't have all the same gear they have but you trust the DM to give you a fun and unique experience and that you'll still be able to be competitive in filling your role in the party. That's what such a game would be going for. No player regardless of when they join having exactly the same experience. I think it is an issue even if the technology existed to get players to adjust their expectations to this though simply because we are so used to MMOs being the way they are and some people are very competitive in games even over very small things.
@@Iridescence93 "...Think about joining a group in a tabletop game where you obviously know you won't get to experience all the things the other players already did before you got there and you won't have all the same gear they have..." One of the problems with this is that tabletop games cater to a smaller group of individuals playing at the same time in that world. The biggest party of players for which I've heard people have DM-ed at once was 10 - and even then they were having difficulties, because the DM has to give each person their own time and space to do their thing in order to not feel left out. It ain't very fun to get knocked out and spend half the session doing nothing, for example, or have people that need half an hour to do their shopping. You also have the option to cancel a session if, let's say, more than half of your party can't make it, which would really be the right thing to do, in my opinion, but you could also keep going (the MMO world doesn't have a pause button) and play that session with just a single party member. If the rest of the people are mature enough, they'll be like "Oh, well, too bad. It ain't the end of the world having missed last week.". Can you say the same for the majority of MMORPG players, though? Missing out on fun gameplay content or gear? They'll be bitching on the forums for "compensations" the first chance they get. "...but you trust the DM to give you a fun and unique experience and that you'll still be able to be competitive in filling your role in the party...." How would you give a "unique experience" to thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands of players as a company of, most likely and if you're extremely rich and lucky, a dozen of content designers? Practically speaking, it's not something very feasible, though, I'd be interested to know if it was and how. Another thing you gotta keep in mind is that in tabletop, you have a lot more freedom to do whatever you want and change whatever you want on the go as a DM without having to consult anyone about anything. In real life, your company has to keep up an image / follow certain laws and take time to consult people about those things when you yourself lack the knowledge about them. Say your game has the maximum audience rating possible and you decide to implement a torture scene for "Philip"'s character to give him a "unique experience". But you see, Philip got his cheeks clapped in prison and now suffers from PTSD and your scene makes him go off the edge and... off himself, leaving a note on his bed reading "It was your game that did this to me.". Now you got Janice, Philip's wife, suing you 'cause he wasn't mentally stable enough to make the difference between real life and pixels. Next thing you know, you're wasting time and resources on dealing with it and / or possibly removing that type of content. - "THANKS, PHILIP!" It's an extreme example, but it's one of the things for which big companies consult lawyers. "Is it cheaper to implement ABC to avoid lawsuits or pay a fine?" Ignoring the "unique experience" mechanic - assuming you literally meant "unique" - you still have to solve the problem of people missing out on content. You could implement a "catch up" mechanic (e.g. level boost, basic gear packages, etc.), but how exactly to do that depends a lot on the game itself and it must be done in a way in which the people that did do that content don't feel like they've wasted their time. From what I understand so far, you're trying to implement a pretty important TTRPG mechanic into an MMORPG and I don't know if you realize, but they're completely different types of games (a part from the role-playing part) and they're played in a different manner. It's like trying to fit a semi-truck's engine into a Prius. They're both vehicles and even though you can use both for transportation, they have completely different main purpose. BUT IT IS DOABLE... if you're willing to scale down on things and adapt it to fit the game's style. Going back to your original comment, you said "...generate little quests for you and then somehow these all work together into a larger world narrative so the world changes over time depending on what people do..." - Instead of implementing this mechanic for each individual, you could do it for groups of individuals. Think guilds, alliances, servers, races, etc., where they all do a different "set" of quests, where, for example, "Guild A, B, C, D, E and F" have been assigned "Quests XYZ" and each player belonging to them does "Quests XYZ" and then you have "Guild G, H, I, J, K, L and M" assigned with doing "Quests ERT" and each player belonging to those guilds, does those quests. Depending on how many resource you have as a company, you could implement little variables that can randomly affect players and make them do the quest with slight differences. E.G. "Player 1" and "Player 3" do "Quest X" and are given the option to choose whether to take the path to the "left" or to the "right"; "Player 2" does the same quest but is only given the choice to go "right"; and so on. Whatever the variables and changes may be, they must NOT be too big or important, in order to avoid the "fear of missing out", but not too trivial to make them feel like they don't matter or are too similar. Regardless, the rewards for the different Guilds could be different, but they SHOULD NOT give them an advantage over other Guilds, unless trade offs are implemented and said reward should not be obligatory to use by the players in case they might affect their character so much that it makes it unplayable since you won't know every single person's build (Technically speaking you could analyze all the player data to see what most people use / play with and work around that, I guess). E.G. "Item X rewarded to Guild ABCDEF gives you +6 to Str but -2 to Wis" while "Item Y rewarded to Guild GHIJKLM gives you +3 to Str & End but -4 to Char and -1 to Wis". Anyway, sorry for the wall of text.
I'd be a lot more behind this if it was an RPG, minus the MMO part. It's not just significantly easier to do because you don't have to worry about any of the networking side of things, but there also has been a surprising lack of decent RPGs recently that go deeper into the roleplaying aspect. I 100% expect this one to just flop, though I gotta say the trailer is impressive in comparison to most other "upcoming" MMORPGs you cover. But a fancy trailer is one thing, an actual finished game is an entirely different beast. And regarding what might've made you feel off about it with your initial impression, the game lacks a unique "artstyle" imo. This basically feels like what'd be played by a random teen in the background of a reality TV show as some sort of stock RPG footage. It's as generic looking as humanly possible. Visual fidelity's good, but a unique artstyle is much more important. A good comparison would be Elden Ring vs the new Forspoken game. Elden Ring runs on a 10 year old rig that was considered mid-tier back then, Forspoken doesn't even run on a 3090ti. And yet Elden Ring is a much prettier game, because while it lacks visual fidelity it more than makes up for it by having an extremely good artstyle. Forspoken on the other hand is what you'd get if you asked an AI to give you the most generic fantasy settings possible. I felt similarly on the first few seconds of this game's trailer.
Lack of artstyle/direction: most likely caused by using store bought unity assets only. Wouldnt surprise me either with their "time travel" comment and sudden apearance of a steam train out of left field. Also the floaty animations and random mobs. Feels very asset flippy
Agreed about AI. It solves the Achilles Heel of the MMORPG- the fixed amount of content. Hopefully at least the end of running the same dungeon a zillion times.
The problem with these kinds of trailers is that they showcase so many features of the mmo, except they never go into details on the lore/story or the combat of the game, which are supposedly the two main points. Are there classes? levels? quests? a story affected by character choices? No, it's more important to talk about mounts for trading, a mechanic which isn't even explained properly in the video, unless it means trading with other players. And on that note, the shops and taverns run by other players: the usual failed promise of having players 24h online to pretend to be NPCs, or to have personal shops where you sell your stuff to other players like many MMORPGS already do. In the end rather than a coherent presentation, it feels like a disjointed series of sentences, and I can't shake off the feeling that it's that way as they can only show off the assets they bought for the trailer, rather than an actual thought out MMORPG idea. I'm not saying it's a scam, just that it gives me that feeling, and I doubt that's a good thing.
I thought it was UE due to particles looks. I'm surprised and amazed it's Unity. Anyway, this is CoE trailer, with generic Fiverr swords time narrator, reading the script describing all the ideas that Steven has said for Ashes. Now, I don't mean this as in "this is a copy, it was Steven's idea!". Like, those ideas, is what most of us have imagined for a long time. I'm saying this in the sense of "this shouldn't be your selling point". All in all, looks good, sure. Now give us the game to play it, and then we will believe. Edit: "or jsut wait for the youtuber to tell you how to min max everything" lol. Idea: What if they (by they I mean whoever actually is making an mmo and wants to do it well) split the "leveling system" into 2 groups of "exploration and puzzles" and "feats of strength" (I'm writing this on the fly, could have adjustments). So you go to the NPC, and there's an option: "would you like to know about..." yadda yadda. Some people don't care about that. So the NPC would just say "ok go kill 10 rabbits and bring me their pelt". But if you care about the lore, it opens up a different type of quest. Each group of quests, gives out different type of prizes/achievements. So you wouldn't be locked to one alone as a player. You know when they try to branch out but then everyone ends up doing the same type of quest because it gives teh best rewards? In this case it would reward accordingly to the different type of people according to their playstyle and mission. For example, exploration on the forest would give you say a deer foresty mount. But then if it's a "go all in" vs "stealth" mission, you'd get idk a big ass sword for the first one, and a cool ass sneaky cloak for the second. Idk how much more work it would really be, but it would be awesome. So people aren't forced to pvp, or battle 200 mobs all the time or explore stuff they don't want to. Edit 2: ok, tame and breed. Black Desert... That's the thing. We all know already about X or Y feature. Stop trying to showcase it as if nobody has ever done it. Do it instead, do it all if you can, and then say "guys, here's the game you actually can play". And what people care about the most in the West, I feel, is skins perhaps and then the foundation for the business plan and the development cycle. I genuinely believe a bunch of these studios start with the right idea nad good will of heart, but their focus is wrong. I feel they think they need to "wow us" (pun not intended) with some marvel. Bro, it's been done. We don't care about that. If it looks decent and we can play it, then let's fucking go.
These companies never walk before they run....they do a full marathon before they walk, for the love of God create a simple modest single player adventure using the tech first and if u get that right then try a simple multiplayer game then try the MMO
Not sure what I find more offensive -Thinking they can develop the be all and end all MMO -Thinking that we can be baited by an Attenborough impression
This was interesting to watch - a couple of things stood out, a lot of pretty scenery where I could swear I've seen some of it before someplace. Fairly good if slow character animations. Love all the crafting stuff. Don't get the time travel. Saw talk of dynamic stuff but didn't see much evidence of that. Basically so far nice scenery, not the most horrible animations I've seen. We'll see what happens.
A good tip is if you ask yourself "why hasnt any other company added this feature?" and if your answer isnt "its kinda niche" or a monopoly like FIFA its probably because its really fucking expensive for what it adds.
2016 sq km continent? they'd probably need 10k+ players online at all time to make it feel like a living world what kind of server architecture supports 10k players?
They're currently operating within an 18 month start-up incubator programme, so they're basically covered for the next 6+ months. What happens after depends on whether have other investors as well. It's certainly not a scam, but also not necessarily a project with a future ahead of it.
I was listening doing some chores when he said “let’s watch the trailer” and an ad starter right after. I was listening to this sofas ad and wandering +what is this game?”😂
Unknown studios creating grandiose "the biggest ever" games is starting to feel like getting mail every now and then from an African prince that promises to make me rich...after I send him some money first.
I actually like the slower movment, attack animations...i hate how some have your character zipping around so fast i dont know wtf is happening, im just smashing buttons.
at 7:00 when youre talking about ai in video games, dont know if youve seen but a year or two ago i believe a VR developer implemented GPT-3 AI into the NPC's within the game, you could walk up to NPC and ask them thru ur microphone different questions - "Where are you going? Where do you work?" etc, and they would actually give pretty intelligent replies Ai in videogames is going to be soooo crazy
Dude, MMOs can be small for all ?I care. Why not just make a small, well built and perfected story to get people on board and paying monthly, then expand to become "the largest universe". People will be perfectly fine with invisible walls and blocks if they have great gameplay and a sotry.
I thought of the COE parallels the moment he started walking through various environments. That may not be fair, but the feeling I'd seen it before was reaffirmed when you mentioned COE. I also recognize the way the character climbs in that cave sequence from that "demo" that was released prior to Soulbound shuttering its doors (and then reneging on it).
Has anyone else noticed that the city looks like Black Desert's? And the carts and mounts too? Now that I think about it, the WHOLE world looks like Black Desert's doesn't it?
"We've created several visual mods for titles such as TES V and others and feel ready to develop an entire MMO tech demo, doing just enough to take advantage of the Chronicles of Elyria legal defense strategy."
Turkish Dev Studio - not Korean/Chinese Check No request for pre-orders or crowdfunding Check Very ambitious debut MMORPG for Vawraek Technology is a concern. Really hope they pull this off - looks amazing.
First time watching your content, i like your take on things. Especially the whole bit on MMORPGs one day hopefully being essentially a massive RNG engine so no one knows what is going to happen and no data mining to gain an advantage. 👍 Subbed.
"You can do anything in this game" feels like such an empty argument... You gotta focus on something when pitching the game, even if your game has a lot of possibilities. "THRILLING PVE DUNGEONS AND RAIDS and also housing and fishing" "COMPLEX GATHERING AND CRAFTING with social minigames" "A BRANCHING STORYLINE WITH TIME TRAVEL and you can breed and raise pets" Cause if you do everything, you're not gonna be an expert on one single thing. So if I'm looking for PVP combat for example I'd rather play a game that does PVP really well and lets me do extra things on the side. The whole "the last game you'll ever play" trap is way too old at this point.
There's a steam page claiming they'll release in 2023, but the trailer doesn't have a single scene with more than 1 player on screen. Surely this will work out...
The narration makes me feel like I am in the middle of an Albion ad and it is not just the accent. They way they are describing things and the rhythm also feels like an Albion ad. Also isn't Earth2 bigger since it is the whole planet? :P
What I hate about mmo games these days is "bring these coins here to exchange them for something useful" "bring this trinket here to turn it into something useful" I mean the stuff that has no other use than to be turned into money/xp/cosmetics, give me the money/xp/cosmetics and not this shit that turns the game into walking simulator. Keep the development focused in gameplay, graphics and lore. I don't wan't filler the mmo.
Man, I still remember when WildStar was the first game with the potential to be *the* WoW killer... but they kinda shit the bed lost momentum and then just a slow decline downwards. Now its just impossible because WoW has the nostalgia factor and the revolving player system down, its the beast that will only die by Blizzards hands. Hong Kong, Diablo Immoral, and mass sexual harassment allegations only slowed them down until people seen the shiny new games.
While I like the idea of playing jobs in games I think it is not good to give players the power to make prices for others as well as to make them dependent on other peoples jobs for the world to run. This works as a single player game concept or when you share a server with friends. Other multiplayer games that tried it, The Black Death or Life is Feudal for example died on that hill. All of them are abandoned by now more or less. Honestly if this was a single player game with multiplayer function it would BOOM.
There is something companies don't understand about MMO games - the majority of players don't care about abilities and stuff, you must be invested in MMO before you play it. The most successful MMORPG are WoW and Ultima Online. Both of them had a universe build through single player games like Warcraft3 campaigns and Ultima universe. Both of the single player games were success and people were already invested in the corresponding universe, and now MMORPG offered playing in the same universe, but with friends and even with strangers. You are already immersed before you start playing. In this case, if well written, even boring collection quest that let's you learn more about the world you already enjoy, can be satisfying. Without this base, no MMORPG will be successful. People don't want the effort, without the immersion. For successful sandbox experience you need a clear goal. Factorio is sandbox game, but right from the start you have a goal - build a rocket to escape an alien world: simple and clear, but enough to drive you into hours of gaming solving complex task for achieving this. So what's the goal of this game? Why would people play it? The greatest potential of this game is its medieval world... Instead of immersing into completely fictional universe, immerse yourself into semi-realistic medieval atmosphere. I can see people actually enjoying that. But then travelling through time does not make any sense. Why would introduce early industrial revolution like trains and steam-based thing into medieval world of mystery and magic? How does this fits together... What I suspect this is, it is a "metaverse" game, or pay-to-build "game". There will be a small set of players, spending money and showing off what they have build (and indeed the assets looks amazing), and there will be majority of players that will play for a while and move onto the next game, leaving desolate world. As the world is "driven by the players", no players means almost no world to play. The sad part is, the assets looks amazing, there is a lot of work done for this trailer alone. Using those assets to build an actual game would have been amazing. They probably can make great tower/castle defense, castle-siege simulator, medieval battle simulator, etc. In other worlds short games with concrete goals that would look amazing. MMO is the best way to burn through your company's money achieving nothing.
I'm curious about what they mean by "time travel". Do they actually have a Time Travelling system or is it just a themed zone/instance like Caverns of Time in WoW?
I mean I have a lot of questions but there is some promising things to see in this alpha. Lots of things taken from black desert and archage and the world is absolutely huge. How will they populate it?
This kind of stuff is always fantastic in the ideas stage, which despite a proof of concept that's exactly what this is. I think you're pretty much right about AI. MMOs just need to be too big with too much active involvement to be interesting anymore, but a proper AI (or even near or proper full dive VR) will probably be what it takes. Imagine NPCs with AI generated voices, genuinely interacting with you to an extent and commenting on things that are happening and offering truly dynamic quests and whatnot...
Time travel, because we found some really nice assets to flip but they weren't medieval.
Was gonna post this lol. It screams "we found an asset pack we really like but it doesn't fit into our medieval world... fuck it, time travel"
Our game has trains because they were free to use ..... QUALITY stuff.
All of the assets shown where assets from the unity store. There wasn't a single thing there not bought.
100% this, that Kraken is a free Epic Games asset lol
LOL this actually make me laugh :D
"A middile age themed game" Work a boring job, struggle to get a house, feel disconnected from your friends and family. Sign me right up.
That also applies to modern age theme to be fair....now, if you add "high chance of dying from random disease"...
@@TempestaDominus Dying from random disease is much more common in middle age lol
@@Jerry048 exactly
Damn Pete. Too close
Omg yes 🤣
It was honestly so funny to me when they were saying things like "The local flora also corresponds to the biome." Like I mean, yeah. I sure hope it does. That's like, the most basic worldbuilding you can possible do.
What do you mean I shouldn't have random kelp growing in a deciduous forest?!
Imagine an arctic area with palm trees lol.
@@easternrebel1061 Ice palms, forrest palms, desert palms, fire palms, demon palms and of course, palms. There now we can just use one asset :)
Isn't it the definition of a videogame biome?
The modern sales hype BS tries to turn the most mundane things into a grand achievements with idiotic sales-hype buzzwords.
_"In our revolutionary interactive audiovisual gaming experience you take on the role of a realistic bipedal humanoid character and engage with the game's instance simulation system by controlling your character in a simulated space through innovative action relays like a mouse and a keyboard._
_As you send all manner of exciting and complex instructions to your character aka. "avatar", the audiovisual gaming experience registers your input and relays it to the in-depth simulation which actually alters the state of your humanoid avatar and it's location within the simulation in real time according to your instruction combinations! In. Real. Time!_
_Certain inputs can even direct your avatar to actively alter it's in-game location through simulated bipedal motion technology which interacts with our revolutionary G.R.O.U.N.D. simulation engine collision parameters... And that's only a singular major sidequest in our audiovisual gaming experience which pushes the boundaries of gaming technology into amazing new heights. Quite literally, as our carefully handcrafted, cost-effectively A.I. generated terrain height elevation system demonstrates..."_
“You can live as a medieval peasant… and also time travel to the future!” -instant DOA. Absolutely classic attempt to appeal to everyone and ultimately appealing to no one.
The thing is, it's possible if it doesn't take itself too seriously and/or doesn't draw attention to it.
LaTale (and I _think_ MapleStory; haven't played it since it first came out) pulls it off. I personally love the whimsy of making a plain-old, sword and shield paladin that ends up wandering through pyramids with rabbit mummies, taking a submarine to Atlantis, and fighting through a candyland with living, cape-wearing french fries that use milkshakes as tommy guns and killer fish pastries that fly through the air.
...But, again, anything that does that CAN'T take itself too seriously. Either that, or be unapologeticly anime/cartoony. XD
Latale's also more of a beat 'em up than anything. Not exactly a game you go to "live" in.
Idk man fantasy time travel is a pretty under served niche
@@TaoScribble i suggest you read the licanius trilogy, fantasy time travel can absolutely take itseld seriously.
Multiple active MMO's have pulled this off rather well. Or, much better than you would expect.
WoW does time travel also
Bruh the biggest flex an MMORPG startup could try to do is actually provide actual content and feature a hud in the trailers and show it being actually used
That's such a depressing standard but you're absolutely correct. If a game actually shows REAL GAMEPLAY with a hud and someone literally just... walking around opening menus and shit; I'm 100% sold. The moment I don't see anything like that I know it's a complete scam.
narrator: "Quinfall is a world where anything is possible--"
Heckler from the audience: "what if I want to breed elephants?"
narrator: "Uhh...yes, you can breed elephants in this incredible fantasy experience--"
Heckler: "we want time travel!"
narrator: "...really? Okay, fine...And you can travel through time!"
I want to eat colors!
You hit the nail on the head with this one.
@@jonisalmela2399 "We're sorry, only hearing colours is on our roadmap. But you can be sure we'll add it in the first DLC."
Why did I read this in Stanley Parable narrator voice? xDDD
"that doesn't look bad at all if they polish it nicely" *suddenly time travel, train and steam(?) mech* "What the fuck?" Meta-world "goddamn it"
I'm really hoping they threw in "meta" just because it's a buzzword nowadays, to attract attention (maybe they had the good ol' "all pr is good pr" thing in mind?) and the game is just a normal MMO.
I mean, it says meta world not metaverse. But of course who the ef knows
Word soup is how you attract hedge fund investors (aka loan sharks). If its primary investors are focused in AI and Fintech, gaming industry is just their mark to milk. This will be trash sadly
@@JohnDBlue *Investor attention
@@colbyboucher6391 good point! Makes much more sense
I was thinking the same thing. I was like alright this doesn’t look too bad. Won’t pre order but may try it out if it ever comes out, then time traveling…. Nope
Ah yes an MMO, the EASIEST to make game. Let me guess these people NEVER developed a game before? And now they want to make an MMO?
EASIEST game to crowdfund off and run away with the money ;)
It's not as hard as people make it to be, the only hard part is setting up the servers and making the assets. Now that there's AI generated code it's even easier. Making an MMO is easy, making it good looking is hard.
@@velsein Says someone that hasn't even published a text based adventure game. Absolutely laughable statement.
@@velsein isn't that still leaves a lot of stuff, like balancing and game feel?
@@LocrianDorian tell me how am I wrong.
I think the "disconnect" you're feeling is the combat looks floaty, there doesn't look like there's any weight to the hits. As for the AI, I know a modder incorporated a rudimentary ChatGPT interface for villagers in Bannerlord, which gives them the ability to reply to anything you type, even something along those lines creating dynamic quests is a step in the right direction.
I remember some vr mod where they added a chat ai and a speech to text parser so you could talk to randoms on the street. Was about as sane as talking to randoms on the street irl lol
That and/or the environments are obviously far from complete. They don't look like a naturally populated game world, they look like empty alpha stage maps the devs plopped some enemy spawns into just for the trailer.
That is the combat problem. We saw scenes of both one on one and a massive battle against a flying robot. This game does not know if it wants Dark Souls combat or GuildWars2 "80 people smack a big dragon"-combat. Someone said "both" it feels like in too many aspects of this game, someone said "all of it" instead of chosing.
The combat looks and feels floaty in ESO also. That's not the biggest problem. The problem is that they are kinda overreaching and "putting everything in the pot instantly hoping that it'll turn out into an edible meal"
@@reljamrkic2663 yeah it feels like oh lets do every thing kinda game, there are entire games that just do one of these features.
Major, major Chronicles of Elyria vibes. From the "exhaustive descriptions" ("fauna will correspond to the biome" type of stuff) to the "you can do 3843573538538 things and even own peasants", with the slow-mo walk around the world, etc.
Quick research on the studio:
-Based in Istanbul.
-Founded in 2021.
-Company size: 11-50 employees
Yeah, don't think it's going to be what they say it will be, unless they're 12 years in development.
another chronicle of elyria in the making right here....
lofty goals with a small team, a combination that never disappoint :P
Right? You're looking at a decade or more of development and even if they get it launched its never going to be supported. AoC has a much bigger team now and it'll be a decade of development before it releases
I just want a game that works and is fun and repayable. It doesn't have to big.
IKR...so tired of Studios going for the "we're the biggest game world ever" goal. It does absolutely nothing for the actual game and players. I don't give a damn about the size of your game, will it actually innovate, give me replayability, etc. So many games I feel missed their potential because they focused so much on size instead of fun/replayability in various genres.
Yeah just make an immersive experience for people. Make a world that actually feels like a world. Doesnt need over the top graphics or innovation.
@@coldcrush5921 Come back to me in a few years, if I get off my lazy arse. I figured, there's not a single game out there that encompasses what I want, so it's high time to play around with Blender and Unity and see if I have the drive to make something I want. Probably the only way to get what you want is to learn everything yourself.
Downside is you may end up sick of your game along the way.
I have pretty high respect for modders doing content for free.
@@coldcrush5921 THIS RIGHT HERE! Give me a world that feels like a damn world, a world I'm actually a part of with others. If that cost a little on the visual front...SO BE IT!
just play old games
"Why would we do content that requires effort? Because that's not what this channel is about." Kira's wit has not diminished despite the relocation.
"Always been a big fan of taming and breeding."
@@dougray30 glorious comment ngl... only way to make it... debatable better would be the punchline "... if you know what I mean"
I was just reading comments and the moment I read this, Kira said that exact bit. Perfect Timing lmao
"Enemy population which dynamically changes" Ah yes, we haven't learnt anything from Ultima Online.
"Every item you gather is vital to your survival and progress" Because having full bags from hoarding useless items you can't bring yourself to get rid of wasn't a problem already in MMOs.
That whole video felt like an improv skit where the scenario was that they had to one-up the last person.
I've always wanted an mmo that has more to do than raids, quests and PVP. I've yet to find a game that really captures the experience of stepping into a tavern with your mates and just hanging out for a bit after a rough adventure. Downtime makes you appreciate the action more
This fits my theory for why I think MMORPGs are popular but 'always' fails.
My theory is that a big draw of MMORPGs is their ability to provide people a feeling of belonging/recognition(almost the same thing), its why clan/guilds are popular, its why people want to be a crafter etc.
Your "stepping into a tavern with your mates and just hanging out for a bit after a rough adventure. Downtime makes you appreciate the action more" is at least in my opinion a perfect example of this, though in a fairly specific scenario. I doubt it would hurt your experience if there were other groups of players there who would give you the other side of the coin, aka recognition, by simply asking how your last dive into the swamp dungeon went now that you returned. If anything that would probably just be the cherry on top.
Unfortunately the sense of belonging/recognition follows tightly with the scale of the world and how much "useless/boring" stuff has been cut away. Make things too convenient with fast travel and global auction houses etc and the focus moves from the local players to the top 1% players on the entire server.
It also breeds a sense of need for powergaming if you can hop around different dungeons with no downtime, no way that kind of player will go sit down in a tavern. Waste of time.
So the true enemy to MMORPGs is probably the players and the devs all wanting a BIG WORLD but not knowing WHY they actually wanted it in the first place and then introducing a bunch of features that in directly guts the experience everyone is looking for.
Sorry for wall-of-texting you but I just thought it was interesting how your simple wish for a tavern experience probably goes a bit deeper than most people, or perhaps yourself, have bothered to think about and how that can explain why most new MMORPGs never hits the mark since modern MMORPGs often come with a bunch of these 'convenience' features by default.
That's more of a community issue than a game issue, I'd think. I know with ESO there's tonnes of RP guilds where people just log in to just hang and chat and role play as their characters. Half the time I'm playing I'm just farting about the map talking to NPCs and appreciating the landscape, and quite often a lot of zone chat turns into people functionally shitposting with the world lore (especially when an event is on and people are waiting between boss spawns, the jokes and memes flow like water.)
I'd say keep trying different MMOs. Try some of the ones that are underrated or where the wiki is chock full of lore and trivia instead of min-max advice.
@@TheHuffur this is great inspiration, I've even considered a game set in a tavern myself, not sure what it would be about, but I guess the one thing hearthstone gets right is you fell warm and cosy at the tavern! I want more of that feeling.
Whenever i think of a do anything game, i think of Fantasy Life on the switch. Ah good memories.
Looking at this just makes me think: "Why couldn't this just be a Singleplayer or perhaps two-player co-op game?"
I think it looks like it would fit that type of game better.
Am I the only one, who just wants a simple, targeting-based MMO (as in the old days), where I can play mostly with one hand, sip some coffee and do some dungeons with my friends? I don't want any ambitious projects that will flop after a month, or some hardcore action pvp games with dead servers.
The most fun I had were games like Eden Eternal or NeoSteam, where I picked a class and grinded with my friends while chatting and eating chips.
Might as well just play a mobile game at that point
my experience of the cycle of hype, cope and disappointment from playing new world has given me a sort of visceral reaction to this style of graphic/game
I agree with your AI sentiment, and that's my feelings too. It's great as a general "tweener" for ideas that are too hard to create solo. It opens up a world of opportunities for small creators without a big studio budget. But "biggest MMO?" if you believe that, I have a jpeg of my yard to sell you.
I literally picture a jpeg printed and stapled to a stake in your garden now
I must have that jpeg, and I bid you 5 million tokens of my own cryptocurrency for it, valued at 6,8 billion dollars. (The ability to sell tokens and cash out is not yet implemented, but it will be released about two days after my completely unrelated trip to Dubai.)
@@TikkiNikki Plot twist, they do but it's a picture of someone else's yard. 😱
@bificommander it's available as a limited run NFT.
Small print disclaimer - nft only contains coordinates to locate the yard, not the yard itself, nor any legal claim on said yard.
It's more of a "treasure map" to a jpeg of my yard that can be changed at any time. I'm starting the bidding at 29 eth. It's guaranteed to go bull even in a bear market. 🚀🌙 #tothemoon #notfinancialadvice #notafinancialadvisor
This feels like on of those games where they started making a single player RPG then someway through the process decided to make it an MMO.
yes either that or another ready for player one promise, this time set in the past.
"What if Chrono Trigger was an MMO?"
Nothing quite like the pure adrenaline thru the veins of hearing what amounts to 'brand new never seen before state of the art' and then that royalty free pan flute music starts that every medieval thing ever uses
I thought to myself "they've 100% hired a British voice actor, this won't be a British company" - yup, based in Istanbul, founded in 2021 (nothing against Turkish folx, quite the opposite, just think it's more honest to have someone from the actual team to talk to prospective customers in this setting). CEO has his LinkedIn set to private but their lead narrative writer is on an all female Turkish eSports team so that's kinda cool? But can't see any experience of any MMOs or anything on the 5 employees so yeah I think this will be vaporware.
@@civisj Vaporware means software thats announced, but never comes out and just disappears. Vaporwave is a artistic and musical genre that remixes 1990's music, muzak, and aesthetics, primarily of computers and the internet of the '90's, to create art meant to critique the capitalistic consummerism of the time.
@@civisj lmao I meant vaporware my phone autocorrected it. Vaporware is where you develop something, put it up for development (or pre orderssss) and never deliver anything substantial. Vaporwave is a music and art style lol
Yeah. The real test comes in winter next year - if they're still around by this time next year, then they might release... something.
Right known they seem to be part of an 18 month game-focused start-up incubator run by a Turkish university. Seems as if they entered a about year ago, so they have at least 6 months left under that programme.
17:50
The reaction to the metaverse coming up out of nowhere was my favorite part.
😂😂😂😂😂
if this was a singleplayer pve game id be pretty excited about it, looks pretty good
Edit: nevermind, meta LOL
play Kingdoms of Amalurm for a singple player mmo feel, single player mmos always end up feeling super empty....most of these mmos couldnt even make up the content of the first fable game
Zero chance those are functional characters, those are random assets thrown together to sell meta world gambling
@@Slvl710 you mean kingdoms of amalur? that game is legit awful. If you want a single player "mmo" play final fantasy XII it's literally in the design.
@@HenriqueRJchiki that was my point, it doesnt work
@@HenriqueRJchiki Nah play SWTOR for a single player MMO, honestly the game that best fits that niche
I've learned enough from games ending with "Fall" to not hype up on MMOs until they release!
but this one starts with queef
Darkfall LOL
Oh, they discovered how to make Unity to just draw infinite random generated maps and called it a MMORPG 🤣
I recently found your content and enjoy your videos on both channels. I don't have time for MMOs these days but I love your deep dives into the corruption behind many Kickstarter projects promising the world and deliver little to nothing.
Quinfall: I'm the biggest MMORPG in the world
Eve Online: Hold my beer
Probably somone said this before and I didn't have time to watch the full video. But what's probably troubling about gameplay footage is the lack of impact of the skills onto the enemies. Animation doesn't carry weight so you feel that "disconnection" you were mentionning. Like the monsters are not actually ehre and the character is hitting in the void because there's not enough feedback on the hit beign carried on to the monster model. I don't know if I'm saying this right but you get the idea. Two models not really existing in the same space is the result.
This happens in every single game thats still in development. If by some chance its not a scam, it looks to be very early in development.
Honestly this literally looks like updated footage of the Chronicles of Elyria. Getting very CASPIAN vibes here boys.
Almost every MMO ever: Hey Bro, do you wanna pay me between £8 - £15 a month to chop down some digital trees?
Me: Nah.
Me: **every gathering/crafting job at max while my fighting level is still low AF**
Hey, at least with New World, it was a one time purchase, right? Right?
The AI generated game world shard idea made me realize the first company that can make a build your adventure survival or MORPG game could really change up the market. You would still use an AI, but where the game master can feed the story beats and kind of world seed theme he wants to generate to the AI, and then he would control world events, weather, and climates, operating as a game master in D&D. Just a AI world gen RPG kit with some great editing tools for quest dialogue, events, and just let people make their own weapons, armors, monsters, classes, and bosses to share with the community that can be fed into the world creation kit.
I've tried something like that in RPGmaker and it's really easy to softlock unless you make it a Roguelike or you program a solution for every possible continuity error. Add more than one player and I'd rather just DM a 20-person DnD campaign than try to create order out of chaos.
Korean novels are doing it. Honestly only way for mmo to be "interactive", but... I'm not sure if it isn't destroying fun of "no best players"
My new goal in life is to be an HR department manager so the first question I get to ask to the applicants is: "Who the fuck are you?"
Kira and the character at 12:31 are so damn identical lmao I wish I had that type of character immersion in an MMO. 😅👌🏾
It came out of nowhere, and the world looks interesting, but I've been warned that it's suspect.
For now, don't give them your e-mail address. So far, they did not even bother to send an automatic reply, and suspiciously, the "Beta Test" link disappears after a minute. No details on the website at all.
I totally want an MMO where the AI can act like a dungeon master and generate little quests for you and then somehow these all work together into a larger world narrative so the world changes over time depending on what people do. Of course, it will be primitive compared to what a human would create but this would still be awesome
AI DM roughly sounds like Dwarf Fortress adventure mode.
@@ShaCaro yeah even a multiplayer version of that would be something I'd definitely play. The dream I think is always to automate tabletop roleplaying with the resulting infinite content a computer could bring.
may take a while til procgen is really at that point though
"...so the world changes over time depending on what people do..." - I've thought about this as a feature before, more than once, and even though it sounds quite nice on paper (or in movies or anime), practically speaking, it's a terrible idea. It would create a tremendous amount of "fear of missing out" for the majority of people as a lot of things might start feeling like an obligation rather than doing them just for fun, because there might be some item / currency you might not get (this is just a basic example) which could very likely affect future game endeavors.
Similar ideas usually occur when you assume everyone's got the same amount of time to play the game or are willing to invest that time into it.
In reality, a lot of the playerbase might be able to do 4-6h of gaming sessions a day, some only 2h a day, some only 4-8h a week, while others could easily do 12-14h a day. It sucks, but it's how it is. :S
A bit of a grander scale example:
Let's pretend you have "World A" which contains two NPCs, "NPC 1" and "NPC 2", where both of those have their unique quests which give unique gear and lore.
Now, suppose there's an event once a month which players need to do during a specific week. There's a little public counter showing how many more "special quests" in total need to be done in order for the event to be considered completed.
Assuming 80% of the total existing player base (e.g. 100.000 people), and I'm being extremely generous (realistically it would most likely be around 60% - though, I'm just speculating based on experience), have done the two NPC quests and gotten the rewards.
After "World A" becomes "World B", you have 20.000 players who missed out on one or both of the rewards of those NPCs, because they either had to do extra hours at work, take care of their kids or other family members, had to deal with some sort of paper work requiring a lot of bureaucracy, exams, etc. - which might have easily been the reason they bought the game in the first place.
Granted, you can't please everyone, but constantly changing MMO worlds generate more negativity for people that do not have consistent gaming schedules, which tends to be quite a substantial part of it.
How can you solve some of the problems this feature presents? - You could make the event take a few months to complete / take in effect. This way, it still changes but it gives a more reasonable amount of time for most people to participate and / or do content which might not be available afterwards.
What is NOT a solution?
1) Making the NPCs still available in any shape or form. It breaks immersion and adds to the lack of consequences in the game world.
2) Making the unique items not very important / strong (so people don't feel like they missed out on much). In other words... useless - and if they are useless, why have them in the first place? Creating items that serve little to no purpose is bad game design. Unfortunately, many studios are guilty of this practice.
There are some details I didn't mention or things I could elaborate on by giving more examples, but I doubt many folks will be reading this anyway.
One thing is for sure though, people MUST BE made aware the world could change with time and that they might not get to do some of the features which were presented in a web post / trailer / etc. in a more than clear manner in order to avoid, more than likely, negativity from said people (though, you could just put it in the Terms of Services / Terms of Use if you just don't give two shits about 'em and legal problems is all you care about as is the standard with most companies, big or small).
@@JohnSmith-eg6bl I understand what you're saying here but I think such a game would have to be looked at completely differently than your typical themepark MMO where everyone ends up doing pretty much the same thing or even a sandbox where the amount of stuff you can do is very limited. Think about joining a group in a tabletop game where you obviously know you won't get to experience all the things the other players already did before you got there and you won't have all the same gear they have but you trust the DM to give you a fun and unique experience and that you'll still be able to be competitive in filling your role in the party. That's what such a game would be going for. No player regardless of when they join having exactly the same experience.
I think it is an issue even if the technology existed to get players to adjust their expectations to this though simply because we are so used to MMOs being the way they are and some people are very competitive in games even over very small things.
@@Iridescence93 "...Think about joining a group in a tabletop game where you obviously know you won't get to experience all the things the other players already did before you got there and you won't have all the same gear they have..."
One of the problems with this is that tabletop games cater to a smaller group of individuals playing at the same time in that world. The biggest party of players for which I've heard people have DM-ed at once was 10 - and even then they were having difficulties, because the DM has to give each person their own time and space to do their thing in order to not feel left out. It ain't very fun to get knocked out and spend half the session doing nothing, for example, or have people that need half an hour to do their shopping.
You also have the option to cancel a session if, let's say, more than half of your party can't make it, which would really be the right thing to do, in my opinion, but you could also keep going (the MMO world doesn't have a pause button) and play that session with just a single party member. If the rest of the people are mature enough, they'll be like "Oh, well, too bad. It ain't the end of the world having missed last week.". Can you say the same for the majority of MMORPG players, though? Missing out on fun gameplay content or gear? They'll be bitching on the forums for "compensations" the first chance they get.
"...but you trust the DM to give you a fun and unique experience and that you'll still be able to be competitive in filling your role in the party...."
How would you give a "unique experience" to thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands of players as a company of, most likely and if you're extremely rich and lucky, a dozen of content designers? Practically speaking, it's not something very feasible, though, I'd be interested to know if it was and how.
Another thing you gotta keep in mind is that in tabletop, you have a lot more freedom to do whatever you want and change whatever you want on the go as a DM without having to consult anyone about anything. In real life, your company has to keep up an image / follow certain laws and take time to consult people about those things when you yourself lack the knowledge about them.
Say your game has the maximum audience rating possible and you decide to implement a torture scene for "Philip"'s character to give him a "unique experience". But you see, Philip got his cheeks clapped in prison and now suffers from PTSD and your scene makes him go off the edge and... off himself, leaving a note on his bed reading "It was your game that did this to me.". Now you got Janice, Philip's wife, suing you 'cause he wasn't mentally stable enough to make the difference between real life and pixels. Next thing you know, you're wasting time and resources on dealing with it and / or possibly removing that type of content. - "THANKS, PHILIP!"
It's an extreme example, but it's one of the things for which big companies consult lawyers. "Is it cheaper to implement ABC to avoid lawsuits or pay a fine?"
Ignoring the "unique experience" mechanic - assuming you literally meant "unique" - you still have to solve the problem of people missing out on content. You could implement a "catch up" mechanic (e.g. level boost, basic gear packages, etc.), but how exactly to do that depends a lot on the game itself and it must be done in a way in which the people that did do that content don't feel like they've wasted their time.
From what I understand so far, you're trying to implement a pretty important TTRPG mechanic into an MMORPG and I don't know if you realize, but they're completely different types of games (a part from the role-playing part) and they're played in a different manner. It's like trying to fit a semi-truck's engine into a Prius. They're both vehicles and even though you can use both for transportation, they have completely different main purpose.
BUT IT IS DOABLE... if you're willing to scale down on things and adapt it to fit the game's style.
Going back to your original comment, you said "...generate little quests for you and then somehow these all work together into a larger world narrative so the world changes over time depending on what people do..." - Instead of implementing this mechanic for each individual, you could do it for groups of individuals. Think guilds, alliances, servers, races, etc., where they all do a different "set" of quests, where, for example, "Guild A, B, C, D, E and F" have been assigned "Quests XYZ" and each player belonging to them does "Quests XYZ" and then you have "Guild G, H, I, J, K, L and M" assigned with doing "Quests ERT" and each player belonging to those guilds, does those quests.
Depending on how many resource you have as a company, you could implement little variables that can randomly affect players and make them do the quest with slight differences. E.G. "Player 1" and "Player 3" do "Quest X" and are given the option to choose whether to take the path to the "left" or to the "right"; "Player 2" does the same quest but is only given the choice to go "right"; and so on.
Whatever the variables and changes may be, they must NOT be too big or important, in order to avoid the "fear of missing out", but not too trivial to make them feel like they don't matter or are too similar. Regardless, the rewards for the different Guilds could be different, but they SHOULD NOT give them an advantage over other Guilds, unless trade offs are implemented and said reward should not be obligatory to use by the players in case they might affect their character so much that it makes it unplayable since you won't know every single person's build (Technically speaking you could analyze all the player data to see what most people use / play with and work around that, I guess).
E.G. "Item X rewarded to Guild ABCDEF gives you +6 to Str but -2 to Wis" while "Item Y rewarded to Guild GHIJKLM gives you +3 to Str & End but -4 to Char and -1 to Wis".
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text.
I'd be a lot more behind this if it was an RPG, minus the MMO part. It's not just significantly easier to do because you don't have to worry about any of the networking side of things, but there also has been a surprising lack of decent RPGs recently that go deeper into the roleplaying aspect.
I 100% expect this one to just flop, though I gotta say the trailer is impressive in comparison to most other "upcoming" MMORPGs you cover. But a fancy trailer is one thing, an actual finished game is an entirely different beast.
And regarding what might've made you feel off about it with your initial impression, the game lacks a unique "artstyle" imo. This basically feels like what'd be played by a random teen in the background of a reality TV show as some sort of stock RPG footage. It's as generic looking as humanly possible.
Visual fidelity's good, but a unique artstyle is much more important. A good comparison would be Elden Ring vs the new Forspoken game. Elden Ring runs on a 10 year old rig that was considered mid-tier back then, Forspoken doesn't even run on a 3090ti. And yet Elden Ring is a much prettier game, because while it lacks visual fidelity it more than makes up for it by having an extremely good artstyle. Forspoken on the other hand is what you'd get if you asked an AI to give you the most generic fantasy settings possible.
I felt similarly on the first few seconds of this game's trailer.
Lack of artstyle/direction: most likely caused by using store bought unity assets only. Wouldnt surprise me either with their "time travel" comment and sudden apearance of a steam train out of left field. Also the floaty animations and random mobs. Feels very asset flippy
"Because I want to live like a medieval peasant!" ~ Venture capitalist who just invested in the MMORPG space.
Hey wait, I've seen this one before.
*glances at Elyria*
Don't give these guys shit til you have playable products.
Agreed about AI. It solves the Achilles Heel of the MMORPG- the fixed amount of content. Hopefully at least the end of running the same dungeon a zillion times.
"A Meta World" and its a Big Skip Dead of Arrival
The problem with these kinds of trailers is that they showcase so many features of the mmo, except they never go into details on the lore/story or the combat of the game, which are supposedly the two main points. Are there classes? levels? quests? a story affected by character choices?
No, it's more important to talk about mounts for trading, a mechanic which isn't even explained properly in the video, unless it means trading with other players. And on that note, the shops and taverns run by other players: the usual failed promise of having players 24h online to pretend to be NPCs, or to have personal shops where you sell your stuff to other players like many MMORPGS already do. In the end rather than a coherent presentation, it feels like a disjointed series of sentences, and I can't shake off the feeling that it's that way as they can only show off the assets they bought for the trailer, rather than an actual thought out MMORPG idea. I'm not saying it's a scam, just that it gives me that feeling, and I doubt that's a good thing.
Gorgeous trailer that tells you nothing. Yeah, I'll be watching from over here somewhere.
"Oh fishing I'm sold. Where do I sign up?" as the camera pans around to the character that looks just like Kira.
I'm watching and thinking "Another medieval fantasy MMO. I don't see those in abundance. So wow. Much yay."
Interest gone real quick.
But it has time travel! XD
Ok I wasn't ready for the steam powered train
I thought it was UE due to particles looks. I'm surprised and amazed it's Unity.
Anyway, this is CoE trailer, with generic Fiverr swords time narrator, reading the script describing all the ideas that Steven has said for Ashes.
Now, I don't mean this as in "this is a copy, it was Steven's idea!". Like, those ideas, is what most of us have imagined for a long time. I'm saying this in the sense of "this shouldn't be your selling point".
All in all, looks good, sure. Now give us the game to play it, and then we will believe.
Edit: "or jsut wait for the youtuber to tell you how to min max everything" lol.
Idea: What if they (by they I mean whoever actually is making an mmo and wants to do it well) split the "leveling system" into 2 groups of "exploration and puzzles" and "feats of strength" (I'm writing this on the fly, could have adjustments). So you go to the NPC, and there's an option: "would you like to know about..." yadda yadda. Some people don't care about that. So the NPC would just say "ok go kill 10 rabbits and bring me their pelt". But if you care about the lore, it opens up a different type of quest.
Each group of quests, gives out different type of prizes/achievements. So you wouldn't be locked to one alone as a player. You know when they try to branch out but then everyone ends up doing the same type of quest because it gives teh best rewards? In this case it would reward accordingly to the different type of people according to their playstyle and mission. For example, exploration on the forest would give you say a deer foresty mount. But then if it's a "go all in" vs "stealth" mission, you'd get idk a big ass sword for the first one, and a cool ass sneaky cloak for the second. Idk how much more work it would really be, but it would be awesome. So people aren't forced to pvp, or battle 200 mobs all the time or explore stuff they don't want to.
Edit 2: ok, tame and breed. Black Desert... That's the thing. We all know already about X or Y feature. Stop trying to showcase it as if nobody has ever done it. Do it instead, do it all if you can, and then say "guys, here's the game you actually can play". And what people care about the most in the West, I feel, is skins perhaps and then the foundation for the business plan and the development cycle.
I genuinely believe a bunch of these studios start with the right idea nad good will of heart, but their focus is wrong. I feel they think they need to "wow us" (pun not intended) with some marvel. Bro, it's been done. We don't care about that. If it looks decent and we can play it, then let's fucking go.
These companies never walk before they run....they do a full marathon before they walk, for the love of God create a simple modest single player adventure using the tech first and if u get that right then try a simple multiplayer game then try the MMO
Not sure what I find more offensive
-Thinking they can develop the be all and end all MMO
-Thinking that we can be baited by an Attenborough impression
I DO like the idea of playing in a PVP world as just the blacksmith NPC everyone wants to visit for repairs and a good story.
Playing medic is very similar. You don't fight or engage in complex task, you just simply help people and function as a useful "NPC"
Lol the narrator and the visuals makes it sound like I'm watching a dry national geographic or animal planet documentary
This was interesting to watch - a couple of things stood out, a lot of pretty scenery where I could swear I've seen some of it before someplace. Fairly good if slow character animations. Love all the crafting stuff. Don't get the time travel. Saw talk of dynamic stuff but didn't see much evidence of that. Basically so far nice scenery, not the most horrible animations I've seen. We'll see what happens.
Seems allmost anything in this trailer can be bought from unity asset bundles.. so wouldnt be surprised if you have seen it somewhere before
A good tip is if you ask yourself "why hasnt any other company added this feature?" and if your answer isnt "its kinda niche" or a monopoly like FIFA its probably because its really fucking expensive for what it adds.
I like the single repeating animation when the enemies get hit
Thats what you get from store bought assets XD
All of those particle effects and sounds are premade from the unity asset store. The pack is called Realistic FX Pack 4.
Signed up to keep an eye on this one a few days ago. Like w all new mmos; high hopes, VERY low expectations.
This game is a game, the lore is lore, cities are city-like, you will experience this living breathing world, and you will do many things.
Totaly agree with you. AI will change everything. It will be beautiful :) Hope to live until I see it and play with it as well :)
2016 sq km continent? they'd probably need 10k+ players online at all time to make it feel like a living world
what kind of server architecture supports 10k players?
They will have to have huge backing or this is a scam.
Well they're not asking the public for money, so hard to believe it's a scam.
They're currently operating within an 18 month start-up incubator programme, so they're basically covered for the next 6+ months.
What happens after depends on whether have other investors as well. It's certainly not a scam, but also not necessarily a project with a future ahead of it.
What's odd is the complete lack of HUD, except the crosshair.... unless your camera was blocking it.
i was thinkin the same.. show some UI
I was listening doing some chores when he said “let’s watch the trailer” and an ad starter right after. I was listening to this sofas ad and wandering +what is this game?”😂
Unknown studios creating grandiose "the biggest ever" games is starting to feel like getting mail every now and then from an African prince that promises to make me rich...after I send him some money first.
Your tangent of how you want MMOs to evolved earned a new subscriber... loved the last part of it particularly.
I love how youtube tags this game as Skyrim
I actually like the slower movment, attack animations...i hate how some have your character zipping around so fast i dont know wtf is happening, im just smashing buttons.
Well, this tangent took a dark turn at the end, thanx for that. XD
at 7:00 when youre talking about ai in video games, dont know if youve seen but a year or two ago i believe a VR developer implemented GPT-3 AI into the NPC's within the game, you could walk up to NPC and ask them thru ur microphone different questions - "Where are you going? Where do you work?" etc, and they would actually give pretty intelligent replies
Ai in videogames is going to be soooo crazy
They had the budget to hire David Attenborough for the voice over it seems 😂
''always a fan of taming and breeding''
I assure you, that sounded better in your head.
Dude, MMOs can be small for all ?I care. Why not just make a small, well built and perfected story to get people on board and paying monthly, then expand to become "the largest universe". People will be perfectly fine with invisible walls and blocks if they have great gameplay and a sotry.
I thought of the COE parallels the moment he started walking through various environments. That may not be fair, but the feeling I'd seen it before was reaffirmed when you mentioned COE. I also recognize the way the character climbs in that cave sequence from that "demo" that was released prior to Soulbound shuttering its doors (and then reneging on it).
They put so much effort into the visuals and absolutely ZERO into picking half-decent sound effects lol
the 2nd video feels like one of those national geographic wildlife documentaries with how the narrator talks
- Let's buy some Unity Store assets to speed up development of our game!
- Which ones?
- All of them.
The "plants correspond to their biome" line got me hard for some reason.
Has anyone else noticed that the city looks like Black Desert's? And the carts and mounts too? Now that I think about it, the WHOLE world looks like Black Desert's doesn't it?
"We've created several visual mods for titles such as TES V and others and feel ready to develop an entire MMO tech demo, doing just enough to take advantage of the Chronicles of Elyria legal defense strategy."
I've missed Kira reacting to MMORPG's and games more than I've realized.
0:20 let me stop you right there chief.
Thank you Kira for covering this! I was literally just talking about this yesterday on Reddit on how it's an obvious scam lmao.
Turkish Dev Studio - not Korean/Chinese Check
No request for pre-orders or crowdfunding Check
Very ambitious debut MMORPG for Vawraek Technology is a concern.
Really hope they pull this off - looks amazing.
First time watching your content, i like your take on things. Especially the whole bit on MMORPGs one day hopefully being essentially a massive RNG engine so no one knows what is going to happen and no data mining to gain an advantage. 👍 Subbed.
There is only one WoW-Killer: Activision Blizzard
Low level employee: “hey boss a RUclips covered our game”
Shady Developer: “really! Who?”
LLE: “Kira”
SD: “it was a good run”
"You can do anything in this game" feels like such an empty argument...
You gotta focus on something when pitching the game, even if your game has a lot of possibilities. "THRILLING PVE DUNGEONS AND RAIDS and also housing and fishing" "COMPLEX GATHERING AND CRAFTING with social minigames" "A BRANCHING STORYLINE WITH TIME TRAVEL and you can breed and raise pets"
Cause if you do everything, you're not gonna be an expert on one single thing. So if I'm looking for PVP combat for example I'd rather play a game that does PVP really well and lets me do extra things on the side. The whole "the last game you'll ever play" trap is way too old at this point.
There's a steam page claiming they'll release in 2023, but the trailer doesn't have a single scene with more than 1 player on screen. Surely this will work out...
Looks good, great *The Settlers 2* music sound-alike... I want more meat around the bone though.
The narration makes me feel like I am in the middle of an Albion ad and it is not just the accent. They way they are describing things and the rhythm also feels like an Albion ad.
Also isn't Earth2 bigger since it is the whole planet? :P
What I hate about mmo games these days is "bring these coins here to exchange them for something useful" "bring this trinket here to turn it into something useful" I mean the stuff that has no other use than to be turned into money/xp/cosmetics, give me the money/xp/cosmetics and not this shit that turns the game into walking simulator. Keep the development focused in gameplay, graphics and lore. I don't wan't filler the mmo.
Man, I still remember when WildStar was the first game with the potential to be *the* WoW killer... but they kinda shit the bed lost momentum and then just a slow decline downwards. Now its just impossible because WoW has the nostalgia factor and the revolving player system down, its the beast that will only die by Blizzards hands.
Hong Kong, Diablo Immoral, and mass sexual harassment allegations only slowed them down until people seen the shiny new games.
While I like the idea of playing jobs in games I think it is not good to give players the power to make prices for others as well as to make them dependent on other peoples jobs for the world to run.
This works as a single player game concept or when you share a server with friends.
Other multiplayer games that tried it, The Black Death or Life is Feudal for example died on that hill. All of them are abandoned by now more or less.
Honestly if this was a single player game with multiplayer function it would BOOM.
There is something companies don't understand about MMO games - the majority of players don't care about abilities and stuff, you must be invested in MMO before you play it.
The most successful MMORPG are WoW and Ultima Online. Both of them had a universe build through single player games like Warcraft3 campaigns and Ultima universe. Both of the single player games were success and people were already invested in the corresponding universe, and now MMORPG offered playing in the same universe, but with friends and even with strangers. You are already immersed before you start playing. In this case, if well written, even boring collection quest that let's you learn more about the world you already enjoy, can be satisfying. Without this base, no MMORPG will be successful. People don't want the effort, without the immersion.
For successful sandbox experience you need a clear goal. Factorio is sandbox game, but right from the start you have a goal - build a rocket to escape an alien world: simple and clear, but enough to drive you into hours of gaming solving complex task for achieving this.
So what's the goal of this game? Why would people play it? The greatest potential of this game is its medieval world... Instead of immersing into completely fictional universe, immerse yourself into semi-realistic medieval atmosphere. I can see people actually enjoying that. But then travelling through time does not make any sense. Why would introduce early industrial revolution like trains and steam-based thing into medieval world of mystery and magic? How does this fits together...
What I suspect this is, it is a "metaverse" game, or pay-to-build "game". There will be a small set of players, spending money and showing off what they have build (and indeed the assets looks amazing), and there will be majority of players that will play for a while and move onto the next game, leaving desolate world. As the world is "driven by the players", no players means almost no world to play. The sad part is, the assets looks amazing, there is a lot of work done for this trailer alone. Using those assets to build an actual game would have been amazing. They probably can make great tower/castle defense, castle-siege simulator, medieval battle simulator, etc. In other worlds short games with concrete goals that would look amazing.
MMO is the best way to burn through your company's money achieving nothing.
I'm curious about what they mean by "time travel". Do they actually have a Time Travelling system or is it just a themed zone/instance like Caverns of Time in WoW?
Ark meets BDO meets Skyrim with trains. If the trains are mounts, can I breed them? Choo Choo
I mean I have a lot of questions but there is some promising things to see in this alpha. Lots of things taken from black desert and archage and the world is absolutely huge. How will they populate it?
This kind of stuff is always fantastic in the ideas stage, which despite a proof of concept that's exactly what this is. I think you're pretty much right about AI. MMOs just need to be too big with too much active involvement to be interesting anymore, but a proper AI (or even near or proper full dive VR) will probably be what it takes. Imagine NPCs with AI generated voices, genuinely interacting with you to an extent and commenting on things that are happening and offering truly dynamic quests and whatnot...
A lot of VR multiplayer/mmo styled games are done in Unity. This is probably the first non-vr mmo I've seen using it though in quite awhile.
The commentator aspires to be the next Stanley parable narrator