When An Avoidant Is Using You, They’ll Show These 3 Signs
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
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Not many people know this, but there are three signs that every avoidant will always show if they’re secretly using you.
And no…
It’s not ignoring your texts
Pulling away
Or ghosting.
These are signs you’ve probably never even thought about-but once you see them, you won’t be able to unsee them.
And I’m pretty sure it’ll reframe the way you look at avoidants forever.
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The way I see it: avoidants try to control the relationship. Narcissists try to control the person.
That’s a great point
💯%
Avoidants are trying to get in control of themselves, shows in how they can't handle a relationship
SO well said. My DA told me he's worried he's a narcissist like his father was, and I told him, "You exhibit none of the traits of narcissism but you are more likely severely avoidant, which causes someone to be very self centered. If you were a true narcissist you wouldn't even be able to identify as one, nor would you care."
Wow, that is really resonating with me. Well said.
The lack of kindness from the avoidant is hard to live with
I was these for her in her depression. Telling her how beautiful she is every day for a year straight. After 4 years when I got cancer, she told me that I am "too emotional" and left. It's been 4 months since the breakup. It sucks
I’m avoidant but very kind. Often told by people that my kindness is refreshing. I’m learning so much about myself and at nearly 35, some days I wake up and feel like I am learning myself all over again. Learning and implementing these things in my life to be a better person. It’s a very bittersweet experience.
it’s the lack of kindness that really gets you. the shock that someone can just…behave this way and not care at all
YEAH DUDE EXACTLY! Damn, it is in a weird way comforting to hear someone else say it! I BEGGED her so many times for the bare minimum by simply being nice to me! But any time I held her accountable she found a reason to deflect and push me away in an effort to make me feel like it was always my fault!
@@azoz158people are cruel
Their motto: let's just go with the flow, live in the moment, we'll figure it out etc etc
@@mariaragone4624 omg yes 👍 no labels you’re not my gf let’s just be happy go with the flow no expectations good lord I’ve lost my sanity over it
OMG that is so true.
Pretty much verbatim.
I've been told this before 😢
Oh yes, let’s go with the flow, let’s see how it goes, I don’t do labels, I don’t know what I want, I don’t think I’m your person (as he gives me affection and keeps calling me) I get gas lit, turned it around on me, no clarity, I bring up inconsistencies and he gets defensive and gets mad at me, then starts in on me and he thinks I’m hiding something or he has a feeling I’m holding a secret, miscommunication, doesn’t want me to meet friends or incorporate me into his life, surface level-it was over a year! I left -he still calls me and makes me feel guilty
. I just broke up with my girlfriend.
I realized I had done wrong in the way I treated her. In an effort to understand my actions , I watched videos on attachment styles.I never set out to hurt anyone .I have issues in believing I'm good enough and become hypersensitive and try to protect myself. I realized I'm an Avoidant, it made me feel sick and very sad. I'm starting therapy next week, I don't ever want to hurt another person like this ever again.
Good for you. You’ll be so much happier after I’m sure. 🎉
Me too. I can’t change. I don’t go after people. I get freaked out if they just act like I’m normal . I don’t know how to respond. I never think MY lack of presence in others lives even matters. I’m not being self pitying it’s just a plain fact to me.
My avoidant partner also broke up with me last week. I loved him, but I am moving forward with my life now. I can't speak for her, but if she is kind and loving, she probably does not hate you or wish you ill. However, good on you for going to therapy. I think I may never date another avoidant again. I went to therapy to be secure, and I think I may need to go back now. I hope you can heal. Be kind to yourself, but not to the point of avoiding accountability. 💜
@@gr7788 I feel very sorry for both parties. This is a two party problem in which both parties contribute, and both parties are victims. And both parties must take responsibility for their roles to solve this problem. "Victims" crying about getting hurt, and avoidants freaking out about their fears only perpetuates the poblem.
@@julieolson1402facts accountability
These people are emotionally abusive and should be in therapy before ever getting into another relationship. They disgust me. Never again will I be in a relationship with an Avoidant. I own that I allowed the behavior. My self worth was low when we met. But I gave my entire heart with unconditional love, friendship and vulnerability for 2 years, and I got nothing but anxiety, stress, heart break and a slow destruction of my value and confidence, even further. My mental health was really suffering. Hot and cold, push and pull, plans for life and then gone. Rinse and repeat. I finally got healthy enough to say no more, I'm done! Never again will I settle for less than I deserve, while giving everything I have to someone. I'm moving now towards a secure attachment and a much healthier perspective of my self worth and self love and respect. Never again, with an Avoidant. Never.
👏 Well done. You are healing
@MrOldskool1974 Well said, VERY well said!!! Same here. And, yes, NEVER EVER AGAIN will I waste my time with these afflicted folks. They need to get therapy so they can quit hurting people!
@Alixir1228 I think there are people on here who downplay it, too!! It most assuredly IS abuse!!!
Did the person try to come back into your life?
That's your fault not the avoidant. You clearly have an insecure attachment style because if you was secure you wouldn't of wasted 2 years of your life with someone who just wasn't that into you. That's a you problem. I suggest you get therapy and worry about your attachment style with sounds like your anxious and don't waste anymore more time worrying about other people's.
This actually explains a lot to me… when I dated an avoidant I felt the most lonely I had ever felt in my life and I was also acting weird as crap compared to any other relationship. I felt closed off and like I didn’t want to share anything personal. It was so uncomfortable. And then we broke up and everything went back to normal.
@@LiaVargas-p8r it’s true like you end up in their hot and cold cycle and it’s not flowing then you’re close then you feel you don’t know them it makes you feel crazy just crazy 🤪 awful 😞
I try to see it this way: I learned something about people. Even though it was hard and felt pushed away. I worked myself through it and left for my own good.
This is very familiar. It's worth noting that some people with avoidant attachment are narcissists. But all narcissists are avoidant.
@@roberttruman8444 And they are constantly looking for someone better.
Had exactly the same experience. In a relationship, but felt completely alone and unloved.
I’ve dated mostly avoidants. The worst was my last relationship when he withheld affection from me. I’ve never felt so unwanted in my entire life. It opened my eyes to make different choices in men
Stop chasing Chads
Do you find the healthy ones feel kind of vanilla by comparrison?
I'm currently dating one... an avoidant.... I've never felt so frustrated and confused in my life. :-\ I'm afraid of showing or talking about how I feel because I might scare him off....
Sometimes I feel like he likes me... but I don't feel like he either knows how to love or what love is... sometimes I feel unwanted and it hurts!! I had never felt unwanted in my life..ever.
I hope you meet someone that makes you feel the way you deserve, want and need.
**cyber hugs**
@ I’m so sorry 😢 I hope you get clarity or find someone that you can communicate with & thank you 🩷
@@livbar This sounds all too familiar to me. It's so easy to end up preoccupied with whether or not they like and/or love you. But now I think it's actually a self-issued subconscious alert that we are currently not 'liking' or 'loving' ourselves like we should
Some of us watch these videos after we’ve accepted the end of the relationship too. We just really want to understand that person so we can forgive, or heal, or find a sense of closure, or all of the above. It’s very helpful to understand their struggles so we can realize this is so much more beyond “us” and it wasn’t anything I did necessarily. They just need to find their way and hopefully start to realize their own patterns and work on themselves. We don’t have to connect any of the way we related in the relationship as the lynchpin to the end of the relationship.
❤❤❤@The_Whimsical_Avoidant
it isn’t a representation of you. it’s just their own issues.
Let's Hope for that
Don’t want them back. You will just hurt yourself and go through the cycle of discard. They don’t have the ability to feel for anyone but themselves.
Your analysis of avoidant behaviors and the cycles they perpetuate is both enlightening and sobering. What stands out is the concept of the 'honeymoon hopping' dynamic-it beautifully illustrates the avoidant's craving for connection without vulnerability. Here's a thought to add: avoidants aren't just avoiding vulnerability with others; they're also avoiding themselves. The emotional fortress they build isn’t just about keeping partners out, but also about keeping their own unresolved fears and insecurities locked away. This dynamic creates not only relational pain but also personal stagnation. True growth-whether for the avoidant or their partner-requires the courage to face what's beneath the surface, both in others and within oneself.
The sad part for me is that when this was first explained to me elsewhere, I thought he was craving a connection with me, but for some reason, it was getting too vulnerable. But it's just any human.
This video just confirmed my decision to move on. Im not waisting anymore time with a person like this. I prefer to be alone than be in toxic relationship like this. Thanks for this video
Absolutely agree. Same
Amen. Been there to 2 years ago
Yah right Ure addicted
I’m feeling hurt right now, too. But I remember this is exactly the reason I decided to take things slow: to allow time for the facade to crack and the real person to show. Someone once told me in any new relationship, there is a six-month marketing period. He said It takes six months to start to see the real person, so nothing that happens in the first six months counts. It’s nothing but a period to get through in order to start knowing the person. 💡
@Alixir1228 same. I’m sick of myself watching these videos. Informative but they don’t help. The avoidant can’t be helped.
That’s a VERY fine line between Avoidants and Narcissists. They use you and have no feelings for YOU. It’s about them.
Always
I completely agree
Whatever the labels, they’re both damaged groups of people and their behaviours harm others.
yes. unfortunately.
It's been so prevalent, I'm just done. Forced to question any kind of seemingly deeper potential, and round and round we go in a broken circle.
I think I"ve finally realized that he'll never be able to give me the kind of relationship I want. I'm secure and he's DA. I still think he's a great person, but I need to finally let him go to make room for a secure man to come into my life. It took me a while to be able to see this clearly.
He isn't great.
Analyse him without attachment
Same--I ended it this week after 3.5 years for this exact reason. He's just not doing the work to heal his trauma and is only overindulging in coping mechanisms that are not healthy for him or anyone who loves him.
I'm with you 17years with my MJ 13 married. She can't regulate emotions she shuts down. We have 2 kids and if not for her filling for divorce I would have sacrificed my need for hers forever. 6 months separated and im finally seeing what our relationship really was. I hope you find your secure man, I'll be looking fo my secure woman. Be blessed
There is someone SO great out there for you. The more we know to look for, the less time we waste.
Was he cold, not making any compliment, sabotaging the relationship ect... ?
I dated a fearful avoidant for 4.5 months. It’s hell. I don’t know who the real person is. The love bomber or the cold gaslighter?
Same here. The gaslighting from a fearful avoidant is insane. They tell themselves stories in their heads that bare no relation to what actually happened and blame you for everything. But keep you hooked with the love bombing and the "you are amazing, I've never met anyone like you" crap. The push/pull was the most confusing, anxiety provoking situation I've ever encountered.
Add quibbler.
Both aspects r the real them, but their brain is discombobulated.
It was probably my ex! 😂 both are correct. Love bombers and gaslighting goes together. Yet, I still miss my ex.
Same amount of time roughly. She told me she loved me first. She brought me to her favorite vacation spot. She told me she wanted to get married. She said she wanted kids. She looked into my eyes when we were intimate and told me I made her feel amazing. Then one Tuesday afternoon she called me and said “sorry we’re not a good fit” and the next day I got my stuff from her place and was totally shut down. It was the most painful, destructive and damaging breakup I’ve ever experienced. I have since paid for many therapy sessions and will Never again allow this type of person to come near me. Ever!
I truly pray for you, we deserve better!
Love your work Chris. If someone here is in love with an avoidant, get out of their parasitic and sadistic hook/cycle, and get professional help , move on with your life, save your time and energy for your own ‘ precious self ‘ !
Haha harsh but maybe for the better
Parasitic is a narcissist, probably not an avoidant. Narcs are users.. if they have an FA attachment style it's the lovebomb, evade, discard and hoover thing.. because they mix the two other styles and come close then leave again, always back and forth, use for supply/validation/attention then disappear, into the next victim
*on to the next
@@cathrinesinna4889 you’re right. I’m in love with an avoidant and they just discarded me for the second time. 6 years wasted. Fun times .
@@ashton1952 avoidants are parasitics too. They only think, that they "don't need anything from a person". But as the matter of fact, they need a person who give them a lot without giving them anything back. They are always involved with anxious people
I swear to god a lot of these avoidant assholes just stay in 10+ year marriages and ignore and push their wives away, then play the victim when she finally leaves. So then they look "normal" because they managed to hold down a marriage, but the marriage was pure hell as they weren't connected. Hindsight is a beautiful thing :(
Makes sense. I was talking to a recently divorced avoidant (married for 10+ years), and it seems as though I was just being used as a distraction and whenever we got very emotionally close, he’d pull away like as if nothing was happening between us. I’ve never experienced that before and my daughter’s father was actually a narc. It’s interesting to see the differences amongst them, hurt like hell for both.
@ Same! Hence my rant. He asked me out earlier this year, came on all strong with the “I really care about you” and asking if I want a relationship. I was still getting out of a long term DV situation so was shocked that this guy didn’t understand I need time to heal, anyway he just moved onto someone else and friendzoned me as if it was nothing. Nearly 9 months on, I’m still grieving. I don’t know if he did care, or if he was another abuser or if he was just out to play some stupid game with me. Now I look back and think it was an avoidant situation. It was like he wanted me and then he didn’t. We can only work on ourselves so this type of shit doesn’t happen to us again. We deserve so much better.
@@sierraG333 ugh that’s terrible. Same kinda thing with me, came on strong, and then just up and realized he shouldn’t be getting attached to anyone. He only contacts me when it’s convenient for him and when he’s horny 🙄. I blocked my recent ex on everything who wasn’t a narc but a manipulator, and am about to do the same with this avoidant. You’re right, it’s healing era now so we don’t keep attracting these imbeciles.
You mean they push themself away. To push the wife away i would indicate they actively do that.
Avoidants also want a relationship. They typically are afraid of giving themself up, therefore there is this back and forth. If there is only avoidance, it is rather the lack of love.
Literally just went through this but thankfully I’m young and still have my whole life ahead of me and no kids with him. Thank god.
I was in a relationship with an avoidant for several years.
Constant stonewalling, saying they want communication and every time you communicate your feelings they punish you by giving more silent treatment for opening up or give you vague answers. I got tired of this treatment and stopped “trying” to open up wishing they could understand how I felt. And that’s when they started a connection with someone else behind my back, saying I stopped trying and they felt unappreciated when he ended things... Keep in mind I didn’t have proof of them building a whole another relationship with sometime until months after our breakup, just a gut feeling and thinking I was crazy, and them making me feel as if I could just appreciate them more then that we could work it out. Complete BS. They never wanted to work it out, they just didn’t want me to move on in case their new hidden relationship didn’t. The most selfish type of people ever who portray themselves as selfless. And it’s crazy seeing them be so picture perfect to this other person yet they have no idea.
This was mine. Told me constantly that I could talk to her and if I had problems with her to talk to her and when I did, she told me that our talks were always too heavy and my emotions really pushed her away. My *emotions* pushed her away. What a horrible thing to hear from the person I loved who literally made me feel emotion again after feeling nothing for over seven years. It was the ultimate betrayal.
Sounds like a narcissist
How do you differentiate between a narcissist and an avoidant? The patterns are so similar.
@@self-carealley2222the avoidant actually apologizes, shows somewhat of empathy, has genuine feelings, and the avoidant I’ve dealt with actually puts his kids first.
This is the most accurate description I've read of what it's like to try to have a relationship with an avoidant.
No, Im watching this to understand and protect myself, not to get an avoidant back. I dont want that. I want clarity and empowerment.
I’m not sure of anyone’s age here but the older you are the more likely you will run into these people with mental health issues, personality disorders etc. because those who are secure are peacefully in a committed relationship!
Yes I’ve been thinking the same.
Over age 35. You’re basically dealing with the clearance rack of dating options.
That’s part of why the 75% of dating pool is such a toxic cesspool. People rotate partners vs heal w therapy or using self-help videos/books, etc..
Yep, can confirm
Most married people I know are ( not so) secretly miserable!!!!! I know a ....Few happy couples out of at least 200!!
It's absolutely awful. :( These people need serious therapy but don't want to engage it. They may even be aware of their dysfunctional patterns/coping mechanisms.
If they have a personality disorder, they’re not amenable to therapy. Remember, it’s ‘everyone else’s fault’ for them. Many dysfunctional people fail to take any responsibility, which is why they stay stuck.
@@emmaleechase613 That is not true, avoidant's are NOT narcissists
@@emmaleechase613Stop spreading uneducated misinformation.
There is a lot of truth in this model of avoidant dynamics, but I take issue with labeling avoidants as Evil and having bad intentions. From the perspective of the partner, these behaviors are harmful and to be avoided. Yet, as an avoidant myself, most avoidants do not choose to behave this way. For them, these patterns are a prison. Once I noticed that I was doing this, I intentionally became celibate. I am trying to break out of this pattern. I understand that the root of my problem was imprinted in early childhood. I am not evil. There is a lot of work to do. But I dont want to hurt anyone. Thanks.
Well the fact that you want to change is a huge difference between unhealthy behavior that most DAs stick to. The DA I was involved with, knew he demonstrated all the signs Chris points out, but didn't want to change his behavior when I wanted more of a relationship. Sadly, I know he is a very lonely person and has a rotation of women he goes thru, to never stay connected to one woman therefore avoiding any emotional attachment. I feel sorry for him, because I really wanted to be there for him but know that it is not good for MY emotional health to continue any longer with him.
I came out of an emotionally abusive upbringing w/ lots of baggage too. But I’ve OWNED and WORKED ON and overcome- why are the Avoidants exempt from maturing and growing? It’s called Selfish.
Avoidants don’t want to hurt others - and yet they do.
@@madamecurious Congratulations on your journey. If I were you, and a relationship with an avoidant is not satisfactory, I would leave them alone or try to help them. Good luck.
@@rustyshimstock8653you dont want ppl to help you. You should help yourself before going into a relationship. Its not partner's fault to deal with your childhood traumas. Its your responsibility to be in a good and healthy mindset before starting a relationship.
Avoidance and vulnerable narcissism shared the same dysfunction. Vulnerable narcissism is a more severe and destructive form of avoidance, often the result of abuse in childhood. The unacknowledged toxic shame is more severe in pathological vulnerable narcissism and their dysfunction is so severe, they have little to no empathy. That’s the major difference. Avoidance is narcissism-lite. In my opinion, it should be classified as a personality disorder even if it’s common, especially if it’s hurting others.
It is. It's a cluster C - Avoidant Personality Disorder or AVPD. (I have a DSM-V right here and was looking to eval an ex from long ago out of curiosity... and AVPD is in the next section after NPD) - at least, that's how I interpret it. It's not the "attachment style" - so it's defined differently. but a lot of the checkboxes are the same.
Damn - you nailed it
@@benjammin1001You’re right. When writing my comment, avoidant personality disorder went through my head. And then I thought, nah, that’s not a real diagnosis. Thank you for correcting me.
@@benjammin1001they're two different things, there's a disorder with the same term used, but there is also an attachment style. They should change these terms because it confuses people who aren't qualified in the field.
@@ashton1952 - read my comment again please. I outlined that AVPD and attachment style are different but also have some overlap.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Chris, you nailed it. This video is so spot on with the last Situationship/ shadow relationship I was in as the other man with a woman who was in a relationship with someone else. She was so avoidant. All of these things happened to me. Thank you for sharing this!
Thank you for showing this pattern so clearly. Everyone talks about until an avoidant gets into counseling. Mine is in therapy and isn't very forth coming. He isn't real. Something has to make them break but I'm not sticking it out to figure it out. I've been saying, you don't need to buy the cow if you have the milk. Well this tap just ran dry!
Yup dealt with this with my husband. He was more interested in impressions management than actually working through our issues. I'm over it!
I'm amazed any avoidant can make it to a therapy appointment. They usually put it off. (lolol)
my wife, or ex wife, would say things like "maybe in the future we could' or 'this makes me so sad' or 'im not over you' then when I ask her about it, like why would she say those things if she doesn't love me she would gas light me, saying 'she never said those things'
Same situation
Going to give you another "ditto." They know they want that emotional depth, but it scares them. They feel pushed into a corner and instead of seeing something that they have becoming incomprehensibly fantastic, they fixate on all the things they don't have, or can't have, or won't have by staying in the relationship. I feel bad for them really, because each and every one of them had something great that they ran away from. It tragedy at its finest.
@@Play-All-The-Games that makes me sad because I thought we were going in a great directions I reflect and go back and try to see where it was bad but then according to her she had already lost feelings at that point t
@@12aptures Same! We'd gotten to the comfortable stage of a marriage and then BANG just gone.
@@RM-cb8vc as chris said, we just need to move on as we dont deserve to be treated in this way and we need to find a woman that can love us how we want to be loved. And that's fine. I hope you find what you're looking for as I have already started moving on and going on dates this help me remember my worth.
I am avoident and exteemly inflicted by introversion due to trauma. One of my theripists told me i was extremely controlling by dating. Dating and getting into a relationship was more about control than anything else. I was warned not to date or get in any serious relationship. I was told , until i got the help I needed, i would be a coward to involve another person in my world. I would be a coward because I would ghost the other person at some point. My therapists told me I was playing with fire by toying with human emotion. Ive been single since 2008. I dont date or anything. I seem to do well this way.
They try avoiding the EXACT thing they inflict on others. Ironic hypocrisy.
They have this cycle in common, the narc and avoidant. But where it differs, becomes apparent by how you react to them. For an avoidant boundaries will work. With a narc, boundaries won't work, they will take it as a challenge to walk all over that and you. Then you know the diffs. Narcs are entitled, they think they deserve everything you have, but someone who is simply avoidant (commitment/intimacy phobic) isn't going to behave like that.
Narc not worth it. Avoidant may be, but set your boundaries. It forces them to change themselves if they want to be with you, esp if they're a sincere person who just has a fear/ past trauma issue. With boundaries you don't have to work on them, or do anything. So many people take it upon themselves to fix their partner and it's the wrong method because to an avoidant it feels like being controlled and nagged, if there's exaggeration they interpret it as manipulation, and all that will simply enable the insecurity in both partners, promote that cycle. No need to be bending oneself into a pretzel in order to get them back. Let go make them do 50%. If they leave let them go; can't control others. I'm saying this because I've made all the mistakes and learned the hard way. It sucks if you liked them and believed they were the one, but it's not our job to heal someone else, it's their job.
No, I told him I wanted and needed consistency from him. Didn't make a dent.
I’m dating someone I am beginning to think is avoidant. When we first matched, I asked about her attachment style. She swore she is Secure. But she maintains distance and breadcrumbs me. It’s Thanksgiving Eve and she asked me what I was doing this evening. Usually, that meant that we would end up FaceTiming. Not recently. I’m sick and tired of feeling confused and hurt.
Trust me when I say it only gets worse.
Has anyone experienced an avoidant who compares you to an old flame? Like, they never got over their childhood sweetheart, or gorlfriend, and hoped that youd be able to help them move on.
I dated one for a full year and almost every time I saw him, he'd talk about an ex- of his for a few minutes. I just marked it up to his insecurity, but I tell ya, NEVER AGAIN!!! Should have broken it off waaay before then, but I was so young and dumb back then, LOL!
Look up Phantom Ex. Avoidants idealize their Exs even though they discarded them. Once they've left a relationship they're free to like/love the person when doing so in the relationship was too threatening. Most avoidants idealize their Exs.
Anyone you're dating who talks about their ex, whether good things or criticizing them, is a massive red flag. Get out of that and tell them you can't risk getting involved with someone that's not sure about whether they're over their ex yet, it's too risky. * To edit, like talking about them regularly. I don't mean they brought it up once.
I felt I was being compared. I had a huge problem with it because he should never have been dating this person to begin with. He knew it. I resent walking in the shadow of a person like her.
It’s the worst experience I’ve ever had.
I’m so glad I have found this. My wife has just done this to me twice in the past 4 months. “I love you, but I can’t do this”. Poof she disappeared. Completely stonewalled me. I’m crushed. 25 year friendship, 4 years of marriage. She refused to communicate about anything that needed to be addressed. Constantly put words in my mouth and controlled the entire situation of every argument or disagreement. Wtf!
In the end I felt like he treated me like a stranger, it was odd.. like he never knew me at all.. he usually comes back, this time I hope he doesn't
The same happened to me 😔
@Alixir1228😢
@Alixir1228 that part totally killed me too.
And he said 'I never loved you, I just liked the way you made me feel'
'It was all just a fantasy, but we both know it was never real '
One month after proposing.
He said 'I love you' and looked like he meant it, just one hour before he called and discarded me, simply saying 'I have found out I don't want to know you . He finished our relationship in a few minutes
These people are sick!
@ so fckn weird
@Child-Of-God20 that's insane..! You dodged a bullet
How tiring. Just avoid them altogether.
Telling my avoidant ex to make no further contact and blocking her has been the best decision I ever made.
I spent a decade with a narcissist and I’m now “ involved “ with a DA . I do believe there is a spectrum with both but certain behaviors are always present. I will say as horrible as it was I felt loved by the narcissist and he was at least able to connect more . Listen I’m not defending him lol but avoidants are a whole other thing . I agree with this video and do believe I’m being used and yes the supply analogy is true ! He came back after 3 weeks so I must offer something but he’s even more distant . I’m trying to break free .
I just did a similar cycle but in a shorter time period -- it is kind of funny how the avoidant will have you missing the narc a little bit, while at the same time the avoidant behaviors will trigger memories of what the narc did
more power to you.
@@ai_bieu YES!!!!! You nailed it ! He makes the narc look better which is insane . I never thought I’d say that
Have you thought about why you attract these types of men? How you vibrate with each other at an energetic level? 🤔
I was so confused going from narcs who always made me feel desired emotionally and physically to meeting a DA who was literally so afraid of intimacy. It made me feel like something was wrong with me?
I share many traits of an anxious avoident. But i never intend to pull away from people. I feel Shame when when I realize I'm pulling away. The Shame prevents me from reaching out. Reaching out feels bad because then my mind is overwhelmed by everyone else I could reach out to.
I want connections that I don't have to put a lot of brain energy into. It is so hard for me to balance multiple friends and a romance. It scares me to think of ways I'm going to disappoint people i care about.
Genuine question, If someone did to you what you typically do to others, would it bother you?
Sounds like you might have an ADHD/ADD diagnosis mixed in there. The problem with maintaining and balancing relationships is typical of ADHD.
For me the anxious avoidance partly stems from my inability to maintain relationships - the exhaustion and overthinking of it, the fear of dissapointing them, or the fear of corrupting people with my world view.
There are a lot of reasons for people becoming avoidant and 90% of this comment section mistakes it for selfishness and evil, that is stupidly reductive and says more about them than it does about us.
Do not let the popularity of the stigma brand you as something you are not.
Calling avoidance selfish is a perversion - it presupposes that people has a right to your time, your emotions and attention - and that would be the real selfishness.
If you avoid people out of care for them, you are not selfish. Quite the opposite.
If you avoid people in order to protect yourself, you have every right to do so.
@@martinb4272At least you should explain to people WHY you avoid them - why you are pulling away -
so they aren't forced to do all the mental gymnastics as why they were left like a sack of nothing.
Not too much of an ask, i think.
@@tori3158 You are right, and yet this part can be hard because 1) it requires friction and sometimes conflict
2) avoidance, anxious or otherwise, often is followed by at least some, or a lot of angst. This can lead to forced fight/flight behaviour - thus they flee and don't tell you.
Thank god i recognised the signs and left my avoidant before i fell into despair
As an avoidant it's painful to admit these personal flaws. But I do because it's the truth. In recent years, with all the available info about narcissists, I began to question narcissismin in myself. But I could never fully swallow the idea because something about it didn't ring true. Yet this video strikes a chord with me that I can't ignore. Truth is non-negotiable to me on a fundamental level. Any actionable plan has to be supported by truth. I really don't like hurting other people. I could live the rest of my life alone if I had to, but what kind of life is that?!
there is nothing wrong with you. You have a superpower, the ability to self regulate. Don't let these Anxious youtube creators convince you that you're missing out on some mystical relationship that's going to make your life incredible. Remember that the anxious receive dopamine, seretonin and oxytocin from relationships so they are nothing more than addicts trying to convince you how good the drug is. The fact that you are aware and learning and will be an ethical avoidant will open up an incredible life. My advice is to focus on vasopresin bonding (ie projects that you can work with your partner that adds value to both of your lives). I run an airbnb with my sweethart. another tactic is to write down things that bother you or make you happy right away before you process/regulate the emotion and forget about it. then you can share it at dinner with your partner.
@moondogsundown8458 Thanks! I will definitely research vasopressin bonding. It sounds much more sensible!
Chris you are amazing. You share life-changing information in each of your podcasts. Your presentation layout, the research and the analysis of your findings are always top tier. Thank you so much for these educational videos and for your empathy and guidance. ❤
I had this exact cycle with my last connection. Some people are just emotionally damaged especially in modern society
Narcissist and Dismissive Avoidant are the same thing. They're just levels of their disorder. They all follow the same play book.
Every man on a dating app that has a profile that says looking for casual, go with flow or learning my dating behaviors… they all wishy washy.. until they seek help they never be happy
It took me 4+ years to leave a situationship with an avoidant and I had to go cold turkey. 4 freaking years. I was his ego and comfort supply and I fell for it repeatedly until he wore me down so much I had to cut him off for my own health. It boils down to the fact that they are cowardly and cruel (realised or not it doesn’t matter). I’m still angry at him but slowly valuing and treating myself better. 5 months free and unsure if I will ever try and date again.
I cut my “situationship” tonight. He was recently divorced with 4 kids, I have 1. But if you can even call it that, we barely dated but were intimate many times throughout 10 months. I’d say textuationship because he never phoned, I cut it off via text. All he said was “K”.
@ I hope you get past it soon, mine was the opposite, we only slept together a handful of times in those years but had a very good friendship which is why it’s been so hard to give it up. I’m not angry anymore, have fully recognised who he is and that ‘my person’ wouldn’t leave me in confusion.
STAGE 5 can also take the form of infidelity. That's where they don't leave you physically but they start back at STAGE 1 again emotionally with someone else secretly. These are the serial cheaters.
Toxic pseudo narcissist, that’s what she is.. thanks for clearing this up. Movin’ on!
I still think they need to be classified as at least borderline narcissists. The whole "b-but they didn't mean to" only enables them to avoid accountability for being 💯 emotional abusers.
My Intuition led me to tell me there is something going on!!
Withdrew & walked away!!
Yea!!!
Chris you have been there every step of my discard recovery journey. I have really enjoyed the change of focus from get the ex back to recover yourself. Really appreciate the time, research and effort you put in, thank you. Btw mate how’s the novel coming along?
Thank you, Chris! Your videos made me understand this whole getting to know, being in love, pulling away dynamic I had been in with this avoidant. Your videos really helped getting back on my feet. Not blaming myself at all. Maybe for one of the next videos. In the beginning we would kiss for hours, do the things grown-ups do ... in the end I would get a hug and a few presents every time we saw each other. It started getting really wierd after about meeting the family and his feeling they would replace him with me. Seriously, who doesn't kiss the person he or she loves? Just awful.
Thanks again for your videos.
Damn Coach Chris, you been reading my mind...
Thanks for all you do! 🙏
It's really sad. But better stay away from an avoidant.
I’m an accredited Life Coach , Hypnotist & professional Psychic & this is the best explanation of avoidant attachment style thus far . Studying attachment styles are a must for me as so many couples are stuck in the secure/avoidant push & pull dynamic & it’s extremely destructive for both parties .
Moreso for the Secure partner who really suffers. The Avoidant is used to their own nonsense and it is "normal" to them. They just have to keep looking for a new partner to torture and ditch. And, of course, it's always a lack in the Secure partner.
Chris, I am so excited that I found you here! I have listened to hundreds of utube vids, and yours is by far, the best! The Stages you mapped out, visually, and described is aphoto on my cell phone as a reminder, and will share with others in this situation! Thanks for your brilliance, making it so easy to digest, and sharing it with us! Awesome work, super well presented! Yay Chris, with much respect, Kudos!
no they will be more happy on their own. i will stay on my own it’s best that way. thanks for your knowledgeable talk.
walk away from the Avoidant by giving them closure, they don't like that 😂
Very true 😃. And do it when they least expect
A closure disorganizes them massively
@@Misskiarie oh yes - and then they desperately try to hold control by lying to themselves by telling you why it wouldn't work with you anyway, rationalizing their skewed reality - only for it to be futile as you're already at peace after having given the closure 😌
@@eppsislike I blocked mine while she was away on a work trip, after she discarded me for the second time in the EXACT SAME WAY she did the first time (telling me that she “wasn’t emotionally available” and “too dialed in with work to entertain dating or relationships” after spending a weekend at my place, love bombing me telling me I was the most incredible man she had ever met).
Initially she said she would swing by when she got back from said trip to close things out in person and drop my things off. Then that became “I’ll call you when I get back” and when I told her that she said she would come be an adult and see me face to face, that it would mean a lot to me because I cared about her and she had expressed an interest in leaving the state in the spring, I told her that it was important to me and would mean a lot and it was no sweat for her since she lived less than 2 miles away, she literally laughed at my text and said “nah, I’m good ✌️.”
She was mid-reply to her own text and I just blocked her and never looked back. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when I did that because she was probably punching the air, but I have to say that blocking her felt SO good and feels even better now. Already met a cute girl at the gym 3 weeks after and making a massive career shift too. I tell everyone it felt like lancing some sort of big boil or puss infected wound, that the idea was daunting but once you do it and drain the bacteria out, the relief of pressure feels Incredible and you’re so glad you did
Au contraire, mon frère, I CRAVE closure
@@tagir9123 but you're not getting it so regain your self-respect and make the closure.
This is so clear thank you .Lost people using others.
This is the best video I have ever seen on this
You're truly gifted my friend. Thanks
Just from the title I can say this with a lot of experiencie: using someone is plain old narcissistic behaviour, not just avoidance :)
Well summarized, and good advice towards the end of the video Chris. I appreciate you doing all this work and research to keep fellow people in similar situations educated and aware. Thank you good sir.
You are saving my life!!!
I love your content and delivery
Lightbulb moment. Thankyou. Ive been trying to make sense of the relationship ive just left.
Very good and powerful episode ! Thanks for sharing with us !
Another great video! Here's my question and maybe to help shine positive light on this take. What if when they were younger they were bullied a lot and rough life at home and its a self defense mechanism they are unaware of unless they are willing and seeking therapy. Working with them as most of us on the other side are anxious attachment, learning patience and understanding and we are all searching for that one person who won't give up on you and can be your partner for life.
The best way to heal this relationship is to heal your anxious attachment style. It’s so freeing when you no longer care if they contact you or not. They are people. They aren’t projects. Being there for someone means being there when they choose to show up in an appropriate manner without crossing your boundaries. Never make excuses for them. They have to heal on their own, just as you do. How do you know if they are healing? Ask yourself: did I conduct myself in a healthy secure manner? If you did and they still became disregulated, then they are not there yet. If you are disregulated then you should take care of yourself first. In no situation should you be insecure and trying to help them.
@@Sofiarey285 I understand and agree! Lets say we are talking 2 self aware people, break up has happened and no contact and time goes on and both people are working towards becoming secure attachment. The thing is are both people working on it for the greater good of the relationship or not? I think the answer lies there.
But there's selflessness and selfishness. If you are not trying to understand someone you care about and want to make it work with and not try and help and understand them and vice versa, then single sounds like the answer. Don't get me wrong, if they are a bad person you cant get over, you just got to leave but everyone's unique circumstances play a bigger role than I feel we talk about. After reading these comments in the video, sounds like there are abusive and vulnerable avoidants and the fact we group them together with a blanket statement. Intention behinds actions are where the malicious abuse is applied and shouldn't be tolerated. Why are we just grouping large amounts of people as if they are all the same? We post-anxious people are not all similar in how we express it. For example, some anxious people reply with 20 texts, where some might reply back with 3 texts but its all unique circumstances from life.
@@cntrlaltdefeatagree
Being patient with someone that doesn’t give much in return though is daunting, and I do often wonder if I’m just being talked to for the simplicity of attention. She’s 20, and I’m 27. I’ve probably just met her at the wrong time, when I should let her focus on herself, and I the same for me
The behavior is self preserving which makes it narcissistic. It's not the healthy form of self-preservation. It's codependency on both ends. We are here to connect with SELF.
They totally focus on themselves.....what they want and think they need. We are just SUPPLY for their needs which, ironically, is what Narcissists also do to people. They use them.
Looks like a normal relationship where people discover they are not a match... And then try again, until they do, wtf is this? Am I an avoidant?
Thanks Chris, really well explained. You just gave me an important piece. Appreciated. I am no longer an emotional void. End of.
After all, all we need is love. But some of us are scared of love, because we're scarred by previous relationships.
Some are wounded grievously, and will never heal, I place psychopaths, sadists, macchiavelians and narcissists in that categogy. But avoidants can be healed if they realise where their wound lies. They are simply afraid of abandonment so much, that they have to go as soon as they realise that the other person expects something from them they don't think they have.
They do have it, but it's buried too deep for most people to find.
I think only an avoidant can find what another avoidant craves.
This was sooo helpful. Thank you!
Those walls we build in childhood to protect ourselves are the same walls that will block our blessings in adulthood.
Very useful mental model for me to work with, in helping me understand how my lovebmbing, fawning, parroting, and people-pleasing playgirl played me. Thank you, Chris. Thank you.
Watched this to understand strange behavior of a possible romantic interest, only to learn my mother is one, has regularly abandoned me over my entire life with this behavior- then the sickest part is learning anxious attachment styles are sub-consciously attracted to avoidants in an attempt to unconsciously resolve the pain/ trauma- and determined to “win this
time around”. Addictive Hopium.
My avoident always talked about us being in the honeymoon phase. Do you know why we were in the honeymoon phase so long? I was always conceding!!! His favorite phrase was, "We will figure it out!" This is profound, Chris. I appreciate your work.
Great video, A month ago, my five-year relationship came to an end. I really can't stop thinking about the love of my life, who made the decision to leave me. I've done everything in my power to win him back, but it's all in vain, and I can't imagine my life with anyone else. I genuinely miss him and just can't stop thinking about him, even though I've tried my hardest to stop thinking about him. I'm not sure why I'm saying this here.
Interesting! How did you locate a spiritual counsellor, and how can I get in touch with him most effectively?
This message was just what I needed. Thank you !!🙏🏽
this guy is on the money , he gets it.
There are also a lot of narcissists with avoidant tendencies as well
Chris is like a Psychology Surgeon 😂. This is exactly what I was experiencing with my Avoidant. I liked her so much that when she bread-crumbs me, I wasn’t even aware and this went on for more than 5 years. She never followed through when we agree to meet and always comes up with excuses that I also foolishly believed until I finally woke and realized that I was dealing with someone with a toxic baggage.
Thank you 🙏🏻 Not desperate! Just trying to educate myself. I really appreciate the information Trying to figure out if iI’m dealing with an avoidant, runner or . . .and if so do I even want to deal with this type of person? I broke it off fast when he started to pull back because I know what I deserve. He got mad & said he’d would have never left me. Why would I take bread crumbs if I know what he’s capable of???
I didn’t choose to be a dismissive avoidant, it’s the result of childhood trauma. I thought listening to this would help me learn more about myself so I could work at being better. After listening & scrolling the comments, it sounds like I’m hated & told I can never change. Thanks y’all- I’ll stop wasting everyone’s time & just delete my dating profiles bc according to what I’m seeing here no one will ever want to date me, which is exactly what I was told my entire childhood from my narcissistic mother. And before anyone comes after me, I’ve avoided all relationships like the plague bc I don’t need anyone adding to my trauma, so zero hurt ex’s for you to feel bad for.
Great job! You got everyone bashing avoidant's and putting them in the same category as narcissists. As an Avoidant who actually cares about people and is trying to heal and have healthy relationships this was incredibly discouraging! The comments demonizing avoidant's is kinda tone deaf.
that's not his fault. it happens every video about avoidants. most of the watchers are Anxious and they just love to be victims. it's the evil avoidants fault they stayed in the relationship for 10 yrs and took tons of disrespect and abuse. You will only see a few take responsibility for their part in the drama
@@TerraPacifica Very well s5a4id!
@@TerraPacifica Sounds like denial to me.
@@moondogsundown8458I don't think avoidants suck, they are actually decent people, but their behavior sucks and it's okay to just own up to that instead of getting defensive and putting the blame on the people you hurt 🤷🏾♀️
@@LifeisaBeautifulting you're not getting the point, avoidants don't suck and anxious don't suck. One can't exist without the other and nothing gets better without each side taking ownership of their side of the equation. The avoidant needs to model more affectionate behavior and the anxious needs to stop being a doormat.
An amazingly insightful lesson. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thanks Chris! I appreciate your insight about avoidants. I was wondering if you have a video on an avoidant in a relationship with another avoidant? My avoidant was in a 20 year relationship and I feel she was avoidant as well. Which makes me understand why it lasted so long. Hope for a response✌️❤️
i am a DA in a relationship with a DA and it's heaven. Plenty of space and freedom. because i'm aware that i'm a DA i have a little timer in my head (and she seems to have one also) that tells me ok we need to reconnect before we drift to far apart. Having a little business together helps incredibly as we can vasopressin bond over a shared project. and every now and then we check in emotionally.
So basically they are using you no matter what because it's their nature??? I'm kinda confused
They live in a dog eat dog world. So they want to exploit others before they get exploited.
Yes, they are not developed and healed.
Basically it all makes sense they may not be conscience of it but it still hurts.
@@cathrinesinna4889 And you are???
Again yes accurate from my experiences. Some days I’m still confused and question if she was a narc or just a terrible avoidant
This video definitely discounts the fact that avoidance is a pattern of codependency that is developed in a family of origin modeling. Avoidance and codependency are the same. They need people to validate their confirmation bias that their feelings and needs do not matter and paradoxically no one else’s do.
Real Facts ! Yes their masks falls off eventually.I needed this video .Thank you ❤
I needed this. Thank you ❤
i love this, i was so dum to not see this insanity coming please help me release and continue on
Recovering avoidant here. My younger unaware self feels called out. After one relationship, I felt so bad about using someone I vowed to never do it again. 11 month situationship all because I was lonely, felt I needed control over my life, and it was a big ego trip (he was hot and we had great sex). Perfect storm, and not without emotional damage I felt for nearly 3 years after.
Listening ,& learning about this personality !!
Keeping strong
Distance !
I've met ENOUGH avoidants / narcissists to last me several lifetimes. I have a foundational rule now gleaned by a well known Life Coach; Check to see how you feel about them vs how they make u feel. If these 2 arent on the same page - RUN !!!!!! You r being used. Peace out. ❤️
Its probably worse than being narsasistic because its more subtle and the result is the same
A narc messes with the person's ability to listen to their own gut. The person is convinced they're going nuts, or that they're always wrong about everything and can't make sound judgements, or decisions about their own life, like career choices or who to marry etc. That's one way in which narcs affect their victim. There are other things like using the person, etc. So respectfully disagreeing the results, are not the same. An avoidant can break their partner's heart for no apparent reason, it's bad, really bad, but not a narcissist. You can still tell they're the one with the issue.
@ashton1952 their are degrees of narcs like anything. An avoident is like a lesser narc and an avoident will do a lot of the things you just mentioned, like he just said in the video.cluster B personalities all display pretty much the same traits in various degrees and yes avoidents will use lie and discard then hoover back just to repeat the cycle.
@@rorymills271 covert narcs are subtle most of the time
@derekazyan9942 a covert will switch from covert to overt frequently, so yeah their are degrees, but it's all essentially the same with the same cycle of abandonment repeating
My partner is a DA and I’ve also lived with a narcissist- a covert ! I can tell you now - nothing is worse than living with a narcissist- not even close.
This one helped me a lot, thank you Chris.
Do avoidants bury themselves in work to avoid emotional intimacy in relationships?
Yes
Avoidants and Narcs behavior is the same, but they’re not the same?
It’s best to classify them as the same.
“Their intentions are different” is the explanation I always hear. But that’s like saying a serial killer is worse than an assassin because one killed you for fun and one killed you for money. They’re still both murderers.
There is a difference in Law. If someone harms another person, the intention of either deliberately causing harm versus inadvertently causing harm due to their negligence is a factor when prosecuting. Ordinary negligence vs Gross negligence vs Willful and wanton neglect. One end is considered more of an accident. The other end is clearly deliberate and I believe it does matter when taking their behavior into account.
It’s the same thing ..
With narcs it depends on their attachment style. There's the type that lovebombs, and after they've trapped you, in a marriage say, and made you come live in their country with them, they isolate you completely and control you, they get insanely jealous, they're stalkers, as in read your messages and emails, follow you to work, make rules for you about when and where you can leave the house, prevent you from making friends, etc. The discard is different because they keep you around to make them look good and clean up after them. No sex, no affection. You don't get to have an opinion because they are so controlling. But they hell no won't let you go, or break up with them, even when you've given your reason, because your feelings don't count, (no empathy) only theirs do. And they're pretty sensitive about their own feelings but criticize the sh!t out of everyone else and say what they like about them. Then if you try leave it's tears and they make you feel so guilty they threaten to remove themselves from the planet. Different attachment than avoidant. The other type of narc is the one with an FA style, that's the back and forth, lovebomb - discard - hoover one.
@@derekazyan9942not always, narcs are very dependant, need others to meet their needs, whereas avoidants as in DA are independent, and the disorganized swings from one mode to the other. It's confusing until you've been seriously involved with each type and very clear in hindsight. A lot of the behaviors seem to look the same.
Mine did open up and became vulnerable and intimate and then got scared and ran. And I'm left heartbroken and alone. Now what do I do?
Very interesting. Thank you.
Hi @Chrissieter hey so why did you decide to look into these types of people this deeply? Were you with an avoidant at some point? I'm sincere.. you have definitely done a lot of work and researh! Ty!
Happened to me. Nine months and I never knew where I stood with him.