I used to be a Paramedic, I used to go out with police motorcyclists on our private bikes at the weekend, they are just as bad as any other motorcycle user for speeding, the only difference is we had advanced motor cycle training. Your point about position 3 putting you in a possible dangerous position, it shouldn’t do, if you see a vehicle approaching then give up the position. Speed is not dangerous if done at the correct place with the correct training.
That's right. It's called 'splitting the difference' between the view ahead and the approaching vehicle risk. Giving up sight-line means reducing speed to compensate.
Had to give up position due to oncoming HGV, got a screw in my rear tyre as a reward. Wherever possible I ride in the "swept zone" where hopefully the car or van before me has picked up any puncture detritus.
Yes, this is the key point. Dynamic positioning is all about adjusting it to maximise the view ahead, yet taking into account the prevailing conditions moving left in the face of oncoming traffic and altering speed if necessary.
I did one of the Police bike safety courses years ago in Scotland, learnt so much from them and actually made friends with a few of the bike cops, great day out and taught me so much. And as you say it proves how much fun you can have whilst keeping it in the speed limit.
Just an addendum. The police can do many things that we as ordinary riders should not perhaps do. Whilst its not against the law to ride on the other side of the road it could be dangerous when you consider that nowadays there are some 40.000.000 other vehicles on the roads. This is much different than in 1937 when the first police training manual was written and for police forces only. At that time the number of vehicles registered would only be about 2 million at the most.That doesn't count horses, cyclists and pedestrians. The use of the wrong side position is no longer considered perhaps safe in training the general public in their more recent Roadcraft Manuals but as yet some training institutions have not caught up and still train it, some to a greater degree than others.
@@MaxHeadRush Yes but at the lower speeds that civvies can ride at it isn't worth placing ones self in a greater danger. Its dangerous enough when overtaking but to constantly and consistently ride on the wrong side of the road for no gain at all in terms of speed and sight then its a no no and no longer recommended to be trained to the general public by the police authorities anymore.
Why don't the British police buy British bikes? Triumph make a better product. Why does our government do this? You won't find the German cops buying British or Japanese bikes. This country is a joke!
@@mrmark8603 cost id imagine. you heard what they say. that bike has it's own assembly line at the factory and is pretty much fuly prebuilt. can't see triumph doing that.
Enjoying this series Andy. On the subject of road position on bends, it is all about giving yourself time to react and always riding within your own limits. By giving yourself a better view through correct positioning you are buying yourself extra reaction time, the proviso of course being that road positioning can sometimes need to be sacrificed depending on the road conditions. By the way, I am an ex-traffic cop and IAM examiner 😉
If you are in a safe position (ie not in the middle of the road) you won't need extra reaction time!! I realise there are a lot of Advance Riders I'm likely to upset with my opinion on this but really this whole positioning thing on corners makes no sense to me. "Sacrifice position for safety" is ridiculous - just be in a safe position in the first place, that's the whole point isn't it!! I really think there's some more critical thinking required here, lots of smoke and mirrors and a bit of emperors new clothes it seems to me......go into a corner at a reasonable enough speed that you can hold your line, in the centre of your lane, and then you're in the best posible position to avoid a cyclist or horse on the inside or a person cutting a corner on the outside....that seems more logical to me....discuss!
@@TheMissendenFlyer After riding a little in the lakes & dales I've come to realise that it's not all about honing your skills on a continual basis , after all we're not GP riders. I've been riding a long time & we never stop learning let's just ride out and enjoy and keep safe.
I'm not a biker, I'm a trucker, I was taught to use as much of the road as possible when safe to do so, and always look ahead to the horizon so you get a clue what's ahead, but in contrast to your safe place in the road there are none, but position will give you extra time to react to a situation, the cyclist you passed in the same lane where the police went over into the other lane just like overtaking a car, so he gave himself room to react, you did not, my instructor by the way was a police chase instructor, so it rubbed off pretty well on me and to be honest wide on corners is a much straighter controlled line than cutting the corner, good vids love em.
few years ago I took the advance course from " la gendarmerie" here in france, and obviously they have the same recommandations and as far as i know it s not part of the basic training when you take lessons for your drving lessons. I have to say i am always pretty impressed of how the police force are mastering their art...Thanks for sharing with us.. wales is really my happy place for biking and it makes me really looking forward to border re openning
The borders are open. I had a lovely 3 days negotiating South to North Wales last week stayed the 1st night in Brecon. Highly recommend the Borderer's B&B.
@@Fee.1 Near Heathrow. Got a NC750X DCT now replacing my overweight, top heavy Crosstourer. It got too much for my aging body to push around. NC is perfect for me.
What a lovely trilogy of vids. Thoroughly enjoyed. South Wales where I live has amazing roads, but yup, North Wales pretty damn amazing. Thank you for the uploads.
Just watched the 3 of these episodes on the treadmill, bloody brilliant to see behind the bikes, the kit etc and them being incredibly welcoming. Great stuff Andy and kudos for giving that motorist a helping hand too! 😁👍
I was lucky enough to be taught to ride by a Police Motorcyclist (very many years ago). His training has, over the years, proven invaluable. Yes, I have bad habits and could do with a course to fix them. I have "Road craft" on my phone and will, read it and reread it when I have nothing else to do. I would like it as an Audio Book so I can listen to it while travelling. Position 1 is also a "gravel magnet" So, yes, move towards position 1 but do so with due regard to the conditions. A Owain keeps saying: observation is key.
Beautiful roads and scenery, and with your own police escort! Great little video series, big thanks to the North Wales Police lads if they're reading this.
Hay mate I was a motorcycle cycle instructor in Australia, and the different positions they teach are pretty much the same in Australia, and we also ride on the same side as you 👍 . When he is in position 3 ( say out wide on a left bend ) so get maximum view around the corner for the following reasons 1. If bend has lose gravel, sand etc on the bend 2. If a car 🚗 etc is cutting the corner gives you more time to react ( and more importantly the drive on the wrong side of the road ) MAX VISABILITY is the key 🔑.
Spot on! I've had the good fortune to do a "Car Course" with Kent Police when I was in that job. Although I no longer need to "Make Progress" but the safety aspects will always remain.
You forget stability. The outside of the bend has a greater radius than the inside so the bike is more upright in P3 than P1 on a left hand bend (vice versa on a right hand), if you see something coming its normally sooner than if you are hugging the verge and can equalize the hazard. On a right hander, P1 is also the safety line so you have already dealt with the main dangers before you enter the bend. Its a detailed subject and not easy to paraphrase with generalities because it depends on the circumstances. High time TMF actually took the plunge and did a course, in order to speak from experience, rather than hearsay, assuming he can find a suitably experienced volunteer observer happy enough to spend time away from their families to help him consider where he might improve his riding.
Agree with the above and it is process of illumination for every corner starting with the default road craft position for left and right bends followed by where is the optimum grip - default position is no good if it requires riding over iron work or pot holes. Is there a junction ahead or entrance that gives me or others a better view by taking an alternative position, and so on. Executed well delivers a rewarding feeling to the ride and good for your health too... stay safe.
I taught myself to ride using 'Roadcraft' back in the 1980's and it remains as relevant today as it was then. I heartily recommend it to anyone who rides a motorcycle...
@@madcockney Does Motorcycle Roadcraft still recommend "At junctions when visibility is low, wind down your window and listen for other vehicles, and consider using your horn." (page 81 iirc)
My father was a Police officer and he only allowed me to have a bike if I passed their internal training... so I was taught to ride by the Police.. teaches a major perspective when riding.... ride defensively and it allows you to become totally familiar with your bike at any speed.... this teaches you better road craft than any other training I have had....although IAM did teach me a lot also..... and have to admit...in a car I am CRAP.... so decided not to have a car again.. .great trio of vid my friend and a big thank you to the boys in blue for a great insight into their daily routines and thought trains.... congrats and many more please!!
Interesting to watch your road positioning in relation to Owain's. You seemed to place yourself where you felt comfortable, which I imagine most of us do. I tried to discipline myself to Owain's style and was mentally knackered after an hour. Really interesting, good work TMF.
It takes time and practice as you have to be constantly aware of changing traffic conditions. I noticed some offsiding going on but TMF was reluctant to follow. Again, takes time and practice - because if you get it wrong...
I’ve done 3 fast road courses with serving and ex class 1 police riders. They are in a different league when it comes to getting down the road at pace and making progress in a very quick way but also maintaining the safe approach to faster/above the posted limits. What it’s taught me is that speed/progress is a by product of a few things like keeping your vision high, trusting the thing underneath you and above all at all times you have a plan that constantly changes as you get down the road and what you do.
What a great video series, Andy. You did a great service to the Welsh police and your patrons. As I said in my previous post, your cops are far more pleasant than what I see in the USA and Canada! BTW it’s 36c, going to 40c this weekend in Vancouver.
Waiting on knee surgery so unable to fo and enjoy the beautiful Welsh rides. Thanks for putting a smile back on my face with those amazing view's and exciting twisties.
What a great series. I did a lot of touring around Wales in the 80s and 90s, before speed cams. 😃 My bones are a bit old and painful now but I loved seeing this again.
Great videos Andy, just got back from Snowdonia myself, lovely scenery. Just a point on open face helmets, I have & use both, some food for thought. On the protection side of things, they're not as safe as a full face jobie obviously, but IMHO they excel in the amount of vision they provide. Full face helmets, depending on their style & the type of bike you ride can have very limiting over the shoulder lifesaver check issues. Chin piece contacts the shoulder limiting the amount of head turn available. Just my thoughts, both have plus & minus issues. Stay safe, enjoy the ride, but relish the safe return home more......
I enjoyed the three vid series,mainly as North Wales is my favourite day ride from where I live (about 5minutes from J21 M6),you've been riding the roads I ride almost every week,and of course some insights on police motorcyclist's positive attitude to roadcraft. I well remember when I was 17 or 18,some 50 years ago,doing a motorcycling safety course with the then Lancashire Police motorcyclists unit,their great safety education and roadcraft insight has stuck with me and kept me safe ever since.
Excellent series Andy. Really enjoyed that. Wouldn't be out of place on the BBC. Interesting to see the guys crossing to the other side of road to take a bend when it's safe to do. Using the full road. Something to practice more of myself when I'm out and about
Great series Andy. On the subject of positioning, I think the boys answered your query. You should never choose position over safety and you should always sacrifice position if it becomes unsafe to be there. If there is gravel in the kerb line, move out. By looking further into the distance than many do, you should be able to read the bend and see the road surface. With practice, that positioning becomes second nature and you really don’t even think about it. Ps, I was an advanced bike cop for about 20 years and wish I had had those roads to play on. Maybe I should have transferred 😂
My thoughts exactly, safety before position. There were a few moments when the police didn’t give up the position with oncoming traffic. I truly believe that every motor cycle rider should be made to do a roadcraft based test at some point in their training, it make you more aware of all the potential hazards on the road. I was a paramedic for 20 years and I still ride my bike to roadcraft standards, it makes the ride so more enjoyable.
Finally you have discovered some of my favourite roads in N. Wales ! I've often said that these are the roads I would show you and other vloggers if I ever got the chance, I'm glad they didn't disappoint !
Thank you once again for a magnificent ride, the glorious scenery and drone shots . Thanks also the the cops well done fellas. What a lovely part of the world.
What a great series. When asked questions, the guys all seem to talk about keeping people safe. Over here it’s more like making money by giving tickets. I think GB's policy of giving the ticket role to robots of various kinds would go a long way to restoring respect for the traffic police over here.
True. Been pulled once on a bike and it was a chat about not ending up as a statistic, Our police are generally interested in keeping us safe rather than locking us up!
Cracking video! Cheers Andy, I very much enjoyed the scenic rides and the time you spent with the Aces who ride so effortlessly!! Brought back many memories! Cheers! Safe riding!
@@TheMissendenFlyer I think the police were showing their best side in this series of videos. North Wales police have a reputation for busting bikers for the most minor and trivial issues. Cautionary words of advice are invariably accompanied with FPNs or NIPs.
@@Jaded-Wanderer I think you are going back to prior 2009 during Brunstrom's era. Mark Polin replaced him until about 3 years ago and from an ex Road Policing cop said that he rode as well. Certainly there was a different vibe from Mark Polin and policing. The police do turn up at different locations and talk to you and will give you advise. However if you do something really stupid, dangerous, or become bolshy then you are likely get a ticket. It's their job. I ride but even I get annoyed with some other riders particularly when they bring the whole motorcycling community into disrepute with local communities. However there are those in every walk of life who want to prove how much power they have or they are the big cheese and don't reflect everybody. NWP Road Policing are no different.
@@madcockney The reputation of north Wales police regarding bikers remains largely unchanged despite the changes in senior personnel you mentioned. I live there and clock up thousands of motorcycle miles in north and mid Wales every year. Issuing FPNs for trivial matters like a slightly undersized registration plate is usually the preferred course of action rather than a few words with the offender. I also respectfully disagree with your remark about becoming bolshy earning the individual a ticket because it's the job of the police to do that. Whilst being bolshy is unhelpful in most situations, the police should always remain objective and not issue tickets on the basis of tone of voice or poor selection of vocabulary.
@@Jaded-Wanderer So do I live in North Wales and have done for a few decades. A number plate is not trivial if you understand the reasoning behind it. (Some of this was a EU directive.) If you expect anybody to be easy if you get up their nose due to your attitude then you live in a different world to me. There are police, like in all walks of life, that are aggressive, but the majority are just doing their job. OK we all get annoyed we we get caught for something but that does not mean that they are sub human. Years ago I got stopped in Carmarthenshire for having a tail light out at night in the car. I got a ticket to get it replaced and signed off by a MOT station within 7 days. Annoying and a bit silly but that the way it goes.
Great Vid! Glad to see you enjoying our stomping ‘riding’ ground again! The view from the little car park where you launched the drone is spectacular! Great series.
Great series, tidy plod, lovely scenery ,weather ok for a mountainous region. Enjoyed. The positioning comes into force when you pick up the pace as you are covering the ground pretty rapidly, so those extra few seconds of sight could save you... though in 40 's and 50 's ,not so important as usually brakes these days can pull you up sharp.
Great video. I found it ironic how many times the cop crossed over the center line to complete the curve in the road. LOL This would be a guaranted lecture and a ticket in the USA.
Andy, a really enjoyable series, thanks. Last year I did an advanced road skills course run by BMW Rider Training based in Royston, North Herts (close to my home). I was really lucky as I was the only person on the particular course and my instructor was a local class 1 police rider. It was the best 3 days riding I’ve done and it culminated in me obtaining my RoSPA Gold advanced certificate. I was quite surprised how much progress you’re expected to make - you need to go for every overtake when it’s safe and cornering speed is expected to be quite high. This was one area we spent approximately half a day on, improving my cornering speed. It’s quite tiring! You would enjoy spending a day with the BMW Rider Training School and I’m sure they’d like to see you on the trusty old GS 😉
Back in the 70s our bike club used to meet at a pub and we had a talk from a police motorcycle instructor. He drew diagrams and used the old "Hoveringham" lorries (remember the Matchbox catalogue?) in his examples for determining one aspect of positioning from meeting 1 lorry in the opposite direction to meeting 3! (find your exit in the hedge). Very useful evening that.
Great set of videos! I went to uni in Bangor and spent 4 years riding around Snowdonia on my Aprilia RS125 2 stroke. I remember being pulled by traffic back then on the A55 as my tail light failed and they were sound back then too. Thanks for bringing back the memories!
I had a great time on the police bike safe course. We were so lucky that day as we had one officer per person on the afternoon ride to North Wales. And yes they talked about positioning and their use of the other side of the road but couldn't emphasis enough that they will never sacrifice safety for position. And just spending a day with those guys can really improve your road riding, they were so keen to help and pass on their training. Great bunch of guys and can't recommend the bike safe course enough if you ever get chance to go on one. And great series, loved all 3 episodes.
Great videos. Having lived in the North West all my life, im used to the roads and scenery in North Wales and the Lakes. You forget at times how outstanding these areas are and its great to see the enthusiasm from someone who is not from this area. 👍
Ahh, lovely that you visited Beddgelert. My wife and I worked for the National Trust there for a couple of years 2010-end 2012. We were the first to be involved with the re-opening of the trust’s shop, “Ty-Isaf” in the village, my wife being shop manager and myself as volunteer. Then you stopped at the cafe at Nant Gwynant, where we used to visit regularly as I was the volunteer warden at the Trust’s camp site “Hafod y Llan”, the entrance being about 20 yards further up. Which incidentally, is a cracking little basic campsite at the foot of Snowdon, no electricity, but does have camp fires, toilets and showers. Worth a stay over, but beware of the mozzies in late summer, not quite as ferocious as their Scottish cousins, but they do like a nibble. Thanks for the memories. I have really enjoyed this novel series.
What a brilliant piece how I would love to be able to ride like a police motorcyclist and an interesting job to boot. Having been a lorry driver for the past 43 years I have a lot of respect for the job the roads policing units do.again a brilliant piece
Just one point regarding open face helmets,another RUclips motorcycling channel did a very extensive piece on open face helmets, the gentleman concerned was in the police force, and new research has proved that injuries from open face helmets are more prevalent in places like Malaysia the far East and south America with denser population and are more likely to be sustained from contact with roadside obstacles like signs etc and although I agree a full face is probably safer the O F is not the bad guy it's portrayed to be.
Great video series, what fantastic scenery and roads, Already have a mini tour in Wales booked for September on some of those very roads, so extremely helpful. Thanks.
My wife had an off years ago, no injuries but the chin bar of her full face helmet took a lot of damage. If she’d been wearing an open face helmet the consequences wouldn’t have been pretty.
When I started riding I don’t remember any biker having a full face ,they wore open face with visor or goggles ,I never knew of any one hitting their chin in a motorcycle accident .I got dragged over 50 yards down road after front end tyre deflation wearing a £5 Kangol open face helmet .I had no head or face injury’s ,but my left knee cap was torn open ,arm & ankle injures plenty of gravel rash .My clothes jacket & boots were shredded .I now wear flip face ,but only to keep out cold weather.
Klasse Serie. Hat mir gut gefallen ! Thumps up for the cops assistence . Cool Chaps in Uk 👍 Thx 4 the Series TMF . I like it a lot ! Def. considdering a Biketraining now ...😎
What a great job you have Mr Flyer! Outstanding video trilogy! Great footage and commentary in an heavenly environment. I have ridden the B4391 and it is amazing. In fact I rode it back and forth a few times trying to get myself included in some filming of a car show there. I suspect TG but not sure. Alas I was not featured. I did try though! I had a nice Police moment yesterday, as I was riding in the Forest of Bowland area with my wife, when a Police officer on foot gave us a cheery wave! Made my day. Cheers!
Spectacular! I think this is one of your all-time best ones. The scenery, interspersed drone footage and questions - well done! You're getting pretty darn good at this stuff. I was struck by you comment about getting a brew which, I know, means either coffee or tea for you but here in the USA it would mean a beer. That difference among we cousins had never occurred to me before.
Three cracking video. I enjoyed watching how the police ride . Great country side too. Just like in Scotland another great place to ride . Hope to see you out on the goldwing with your good lady soon. Ride safe take care.
Thoroughly enjoyed this mini series. Some have commented that it's not ok to cross the centre line and the police shouldn't do it, forgetting that on a right hander, when road markings permit and it's safe to do so, you are allowed to cross the (broken) line to overtake. It's all about how far ahead you can see to be clear.
Very enjoyable videos , I ride around North Wales about 4 times per week some of the best biking roads in the U.K. imho, I consider my self very lucky to be able to do so, long May it continue , these guys (the police) are doing a great job. Come and enjoy North Wales.
Great sequence of vids, than you :-) I did Bikesafe in Hampshire a few years ago, curiously enough with an Andy! Great day out and generous of the officer to give up his day for us. Aside from having to try to ignore a fully painted bike following me, the lines were educational to learn and I like the copper's view of ignoring the 1,2,3,4 etc OCD thing in favour of a logical judgement to give visibility. Need to book a refresher soon...
I've loved that series. A great break from road testing (sorry to me it can get bit same old same.) Top job. How about a visit to Nathan the postman to try one of his posty bikes off road? Keep up the great work.
A very interesting set of videos which reinforces the good pastoral work done by police bikers. You have to respect their riding skill, which we should all try and emulate. On the subject of open face helmets, I have a Kawasaki W800 and find that the open face gives me far more peripheral vision over full face helmets and makes me want to ride safely. I have also passed my IAM training, which I know has saved me from harm on at least three occasions over the past 25 years of riding and something I would advise all bikers to do.
Really enjoyed the series . A big shout out for the Police motorcyclists for taking part . Well done chaps 👍
I used to be a Paramedic, I used to go out with police motorcyclists on our private bikes at the weekend, they are just as bad as any other motorcycle user for speeding, the only difference is we had advanced motor cycle training. Your point about position 3 putting you in a possible dangerous position, it shouldn’t do, if you see a vehicle approaching then give up the position. Speed is not dangerous if done at the correct place with the correct training.
That's right. It's called 'splitting the difference' between the view ahead and the approaching vehicle risk. Giving up sight-line means reducing speed to compensate.
Had to give up position due to oncoming HGV, got a screw in my rear tyre as a reward. Wherever possible I ride in the "swept zone" where hopefully the car or van before me has picked up any puncture detritus.
Yes, this is the key point. Dynamic positioning is all about adjusting it to maximise the view ahead, yet taking into account the prevailing conditions moving left in the face of oncoming traffic and altering speed if necessary.
@@martinrew9285 agree, i too ride where possible in the swept zone, less debris including large stones that blend in well with the road surface...
I did one of the Police bike safety courses years ago in Scotland, learnt so much from them and actually made friends with a few of the bike cops, great day out and taught me so much. And as you say it proves how much fun you can have whilst keeping it in the speed limit.
Cracking videos, beautiful scenery and great to humanize the “Boys in Blue” … loved the series!
Brilliant video Andy, and big thumbs up to Welsh police for letting you have that great experience.
I live in North Wales and the police are brilliant. Just normal people with a job to do and they do it well. Thanks TMF for the videos, very good 👏🏼
Interesting seeing the chaps using all the road.
Just an addendum. The police can do many things that we as ordinary riders should not perhaps do. Whilst its not against the law to ride on the other side of the road it could be dangerous when you consider that nowadays there are some 40.000.000 other vehicles on the roads.
This is much different than in 1937 when the first police training manual was written and for police forces only. At that time the number of vehicles registered would only be about 2 million at the most.That doesn't count horses, cyclists and pedestrians.
The use of the wrong side position is no longer considered perhaps safe in training the general public in their more recent Roadcraft Manuals but as yet some training institutions have not caught up and still train it, some to a greater degree than others.
A good way to maintain progress.
@@MaxHeadRush Yes but at the lower speeds that civvies can ride at it isn't worth placing ones self in a greater danger. Its dangerous enough when overtaking but to constantly and consistently ride on the
wrong side of the road for no gain at all in terms of speed and sight then its a no no and no longer recommended to be trained to the general public by the police authorities anymore.
Throughly loving this series TMF. What a delight to see the police bikes leaning like there is no tomorrow.
Why don't the British police buy British bikes? Triumph make a better product. Why does our government do this? You won't find the German cops buying British or Japanese bikes. This country is a joke!
@@mrmark8603 cost id imagine. you heard what they say. that bike has it's own assembly line at the factory and is pretty much fuly prebuilt. can't see triumph doing that.
Enjoying this series Andy. On the subject of road position on bends, it is all about giving yourself time to react and always riding within your own limits. By giving yourself a better view through correct positioning you are buying yourself extra reaction time, the proviso of course being that road positioning can sometimes need to be sacrificed depending on the road conditions. By the way, I am an ex-traffic cop and IAM examiner 😉
If you are in a safe position (ie not in the middle of the road) you won't need extra reaction time!! I realise there are a lot of Advance Riders I'm likely to upset with my opinion on this but really this whole positioning thing on corners makes no sense to me. "Sacrifice position for safety" is ridiculous - just be in a safe position in the first place, that's the whole point isn't it!! I really think there's some more critical thinking required here, lots of smoke and mirrors and a bit of emperors new clothes it seems to me......go into a corner at a reasonable enough speed that you can hold your line, in the centre of your lane, and then you're in the best posible position to avoid a cyclist or horse on the inside or a person cutting a corner on the outside....that seems more logical to me....discuss!
@@TheMissendenFlyer After riding a little in the lakes & dales I've come to realise that it's not all about honing your skills on a continual basis , after all we're not GP riders. I've been riding a long time & we never stop learning let's just ride out and enjoy and keep safe.
I'm not a biker, I'm a trucker, I was taught to use as much of the road as possible when safe to do so, and always look ahead to the horizon so you get a clue what's ahead, but in contrast to your safe place in the road there are none, but position will give you extra time to react to a situation, the cyclist you passed in the same lane where the police went over into the other lane just like overtaking a car, so he gave himself room to react, you did not, my instructor by the way was a police chase instructor, so it rubbed off pretty well on me and to be honest wide on corners is a much straighter controlled line than cutting the corner, good vids love em.
few years ago I took the advance course from " la gendarmerie" here in france, and obviously they have the same recommandations and as far as i know it s not part of the basic training when you take lessons for your drving lessons. I have to say i am always pretty impressed of how the police force are mastering their art...Thanks for sharing with us.. wales is really my happy place for biking and it makes me really looking forward to border re openning
The borders are open. I had a lovely 3 days negotiating South to North Wales last week stayed the 1st night in Brecon. Highly recommend the Borderer's B&B.
@@kevinf-b5065 from where do you hail ?
@@columbmurray they are very impressive :)
@@Fee.1 Near Heathrow. Got a NC750X DCT now replacing my overweight, top heavy Crosstourer. It got too much for my aging body to push around. NC is perfect for me.
great series, really fascinating watch. The way the guys use the whole road is impressive, must polish up my skills and read road craft again!
Really interesting to see the guys riding positions on the roads, making use of both lanes etc when it makes sense to do so.
Racing lines innit😁
What a lovely trilogy of vids. Thoroughly enjoyed. South Wales where I live has amazing roads, but yup, North Wales pretty damn amazing. Thank you for the uploads.
Next tour videos (another 3 parter) are in South Wales - stay tuned!
Great series, big thanks to the north Wales police for having you along for the day to share the stunning scenery!
Just watched the 3 of these episodes on the treadmill, bloody brilliant to see behind the bikes, the kit etc and them being incredibly welcoming. Great stuff Andy and kudos for giving that motorist a helping hand too! 😁👍
I was lucky enough to be taught to ride by a Police Motorcyclist (very many years ago). His training has, over the years, proven invaluable. Yes, I have bad habits and could do with a course to fix them. I have "Road craft" on my phone and will, read it and reread it when I have nothing else to do. I would like it as an Audio Book so I can listen to it while travelling.
Position 1 is also a "gravel magnet" So, yes, move towards position 1 but do so with due regard to the conditions. A Owain keeps saying: observation is key.
If you're gonna be a bike cop, this is the place to do it! I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this series, Mr. TMF! Nice work, sir!
Thank you!
Beautiful roads and scenery, and with your own police escort! Great little video series, big thanks to the North Wales Police lads if they're reading this.
Thank you Leuff....
Hay mate I was a motorcycle cycle instructor in Australia, and the different positions they teach are pretty much the same in Australia, and we also ride on the same side as you 👍 . When he is in position 3 ( say out wide on a left bend ) so get maximum view around the corner for the following reasons
1. If bend has lose gravel, sand etc on the bend
2. If a car 🚗 etc is cutting the corner gives you more time to react ( and more importantly the drive on the wrong side of the road ) MAX VISABILITY is the key 🔑.
Spot on! I've had the good fortune to do a "Car Course" with Kent Police when I was in that job. Although I no longer need to "Make Progress" but the safety aspects will always remain.
You forget stability. The outside of the bend has a greater radius than the inside so the bike is more upright in P3 than P1 on a left hand bend (vice versa on a right hand), if you see something coming its normally sooner than if you are hugging the verge and can equalize the hazard. On a right hander, P1 is also the safety line so you have already dealt with the main dangers before you enter the bend. Its a detailed subject and not easy to paraphrase with generalities because it depends on the circumstances. High time TMF actually took the plunge and did a course, in order to speak from experience, rather than hearsay, assuming he can find a suitably experienced volunteer observer happy enough to spend time away from their families to help him consider where he might improve his riding.
Agree with the above and it is process of illumination for every corner starting with the default road craft position for left and right bends followed by where is the optimum grip - default position is no good if it requires riding over iron work or pot holes. Is there a junction ahead or entrance that gives me or others a better view by taking an alternative position, and so on. Executed well delivers a rewarding feeling to the ride and good for your health too... stay safe.
I taught myself to ride using 'Roadcraft' back in the 1980's and it remains as relevant today as it was then. I heartily recommend it to anyone who rides a motorcycle...
"Roadcraft" has been revised several times since the 80's. The latest version was published last year and available from early this year.
@@madcockney Indeed, I have the current edition.
Me too, its solid stuff
@@madcockney Does Motorcycle Roadcraft still recommend "At junctions when visibility is low, wind down your window and listen for other vehicles, and consider using your horn." (page 81 iirc)
@@FuzzyScaredyCat The more recent editions of Roadcraft have removed that “deliberate mistake” 😉
My father was a Police officer and he only allowed me to have a bike if I passed their internal training... so I was taught to ride by the Police.. teaches a major perspective when riding.... ride defensively and it allows you to become totally familiar with your bike at any speed.... this teaches you better road craft than any other training I have had....although IAM did teach me a lot also..... and have to admit...in a car I am CRAP.... so decided not to have a car again.. .great trio of vid my friend and a big thank you to the boys in blue for a great insight into their daily routines and thought trains.... congrats and many more please!!
Fantastic 3 part series, one of the best yet. Really enjoyed it and a huge respect (I have anyway) to the Police for making this happen!
I absolutely loved this series Andy! Great to build relations between us bikers and the police 👍🏼
Interesting to watch your road positioning in relation to Owain's. You seemed to place yourself where you felt comfortable, which I imagine most of us do. I tried to discipline myself to Owain's style and was mentally knackered after an hour. Really interesting, good work TMF.
It takes time and practice as you have to be constantly aware of changing traffic conditions. I noticed some offsiding going on but TMF was reluctant to follow. Again, takes time and practice - because if you get it wrong...
I grew up with a father who was a road racing instructor... nothing can break my habit of using the entire lane!
I’ve done 3 fast road courses with serving and ex class 1 police riders.
They are in a different league when it comes to getting down the road at pace and making progress in a very quick way but also maintaining the safe approach to faster/above the posted limits.
What it’s taught me is that speed/progress is a by product of a few things like keeping your vision high, trusting the thing underneath you and above all at all times you have a plan that constantly changes as you get down the road and what you do.
The drone footage amazing! (POLICE 🚔 👏👏👏👏)
What a great video series, Andy. You did a great service to the Welsh police and your patrons. As I said in my previous post, your cops are far more pleasant than what I see in the USA and Canada! BTW it’s 36c, going to 40c this weekend in Vancouver.
I'll agree wholeheartedly, James! It won't be a fun riding few days in the heat, even with the frozen camelbak cooling my spine! DL650 in Burnaby...
Excellent series! It’s always encouraging to know the police are good guys.
Waiting on knee surgery so unable to fo and enjoy the beautiful Welsh rides. Thanks for putting a smile back on my face with those amazing view's and exciting twisties.
This is a brilliant series of informative motorcycling joy, interesting how the police ride their bikes!
Glad you enjoyed it!
What a great series. I did a lot of touring around Wales in the 80s and 90s, before speed cams. 😃 My bones are a bit old and painful now but I loved seeing this again.
Great content Andy. What glorious scenery. Nice lads too
Great videos Andy, just got back from Snowdonia myself, lovely scenery. Just a point on open face helmets, I have & use both, some food for thought.
On the protection side of things, they're not as safe as a full face jobie obviously, but IMHO they excel in the amount of vision they provide. Full face helmets, depending on their style & the type of bike you ride can have very limiting over the shoulder lifesaver check issues. Chin piece contacts the shoulder limiting the amount of head turn available.
Just my thoughts, both have plus & minus issues.
Stay safe, enjoy the ride, but relish the safe return home more......
Great series Andy, properly enjoyed it. Great of the police to give up their time/experience too.
Thanks Andy really enjoyed this series of videos and as always the scenery is just stunning
I enjoyed the three vid series,mainly as North Wales is my favourite day ride from where I live (about 5minutes from J21 M6),you've been riding the roads I ride almost every week,and of course some insights on police motorcyclist's positive attitude to roadcraft.
I well remember when I was 17 or 18,some 50 years ago,doing a motorcycling safety course with the then Lancashire Police motorcyclists unit,their great safety education and roadcraft insight has stuck with me and kept me safe ever since.
Excellent series Andy. Really enjoyed that. Wouldn't be out of place on the BBC. Interesting to see the guys crossing to the other side of road to take a bend when it's safe to do. Using the full road. Something to practice more of myself when I'm out and about
Thank you Colin….and yes agreed
Great series Andy.
On the subject of positioning, I think the boys answered your query. You should never choose position over safety and you should always sacrifice position if it becomes unsafe to be there. If there is gravel in the kerb line, move out. By looking further into the distance than many do, you should be able to read the bend and see the road surface.
With practice, that positioning becomes second nature and you really don’t even think about it.
Ps, I was an advanced bike cop for about 20 years and wish I had had those roads to play on. Maybe I should have transferred 😂
My thoughts exactly, safety before position. There were a few moments when the police didn’t give up the position with oncoming traffic.
I truly believe that every motor cycle rider should be made to do a roadcraft based test at some point in their training, it make you more aware of all the potential hazards on the road. I was a paramedic for 20 years and I still ride my bike to roadcraft standards, it makes the ride so more enjoyable.
Finally you have discovered some of my favourite roads in N. Wales !
I've often said that these are the roads I would show you and other vloggers if I ever got the chance, I'm glad they didn't disappoint !
Thank you once again for a magnificent ride, the glorious scenery and drone shots . Thanks also the the cops well done fellas. What a lovely part of the world.
Another top series Andy, very informative and enjoyable.Nice balance all round and humorous as always.Nice one
Cheers Steve - much appreciated!
What a great series. When asked questions, the guys all seem to talk about keeping people safe. Over here it’s more like making money by giving tickets. I think GB's policy of giving the ticket role to robots of various kinds would go a long way to restoring respect for the traffic police over here.
True. Been pulled once on a bike and it was a chat about not ending up as a statistic, Our police are generally interested in keeping us safe rather than locking us up!
Cracking video! Cheers Andy, I very much enjoyed the scenic rides and the time you spent with the Aces who ride so effortlessly!! Brought back many memories! Cheers! Safe riding!
Brilliant series,well done.You can't beat Wales.Cheers.
Really enjoyed these, nice one from the North Wales police seem like a nice bunch of chaps 👍
Sure are.....
@@TheMissendenFlyer I think the police were showing their best side in this series of videos. North Wales police have a reputation for busting bikers for the most minor and trivial issues. Cautionary words of advice are invariably accompanied with FPNs or NIPs.
@@Jaded-Wanderer I think you are going back to prior 2009 during Brunstrom's era. Mark Polin replaced him until about 3 years ago and from an ex Road Policing cop said that he rode as well. Certainly there was a different vibe from Mark Polin and policing. The police do turn up at different locations and talk to you and will give you advise. However if you do something really stupid, dangerous, or become bolshy then you are likely get a ticket. It's their job. I ride but even I get annoyed with some other riders particularly when they bring the whole motorcycling community into disrepute with local communities. However there are those in every walk of life who want to prove how much power they have or they are the big cheese and don't reflect everybody. NWP Road Policing are no different.
@@madcockney The reputation of north Wales police regarding bikers remains largely unchanged despite the changes in senior personnel you mentioned. I live there and clock up thousands of motorcycle miles in north and mid Wales every year. Issuing FPNs for trivial matters like a slightly undersized registration plate is usually the preferred course of action rather than a few words with the offender.
I also respectfully disagree with your remark about becoming bolshy earning the individual a ticket because it's the job of the police to do that. Whilst being bolshy is unhelpful in most situations, the police should always remain objective and not issue tickets on the basis of tone of voice or poor selection of vocabulary.
@@Jaded-Wanderer So do I live in North Wales and have done for a few decades. A number plate is not trivial if you understand the reasoning behind it. (Some of this was a EU directive.) If you expect anybody to be easy if you get up their nose due to your attitude then you live in a different world to me. There are police, like in all walks of life, that are aggressive, but the majority are just doing their job. OK we all get annoyed we we get caught for something but that does not mean that they are sub human. Years ago I got stopped in Carmarthenshire for having a tail light out at night in the car. I got a ticket to get it replaced and signed off by a MOT station within 7 days. Annoying and a bit silly but that the way it goes.
Great Vid! Glad to see you enjoying our stomping ‘riding’ ground again! The view from the little car park where you launched the drone is spectacular! Great series.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Enjoyed this series very much, Andy. Glad that the rain cleared off in time for the Snowdonia stretch of the ride.
Great series, tidy plod, lovely scenery ,weather ok for a mountainous region. Enjoyed. The positioning comes into force when you pick up the pace as you are covering the ground pretty rapidly, so those extra few seconds of sight could save you... though in 40 's and 50 's ,not so important as usually brakes these days can pull you up sharp.
Great video. I found it ironic how many times the cop crossed over the center line to complete the curve in the road. LOL This would be a guaranted lecture and a ticket in the USA.
No laws against it here as long as it's safe and the road markings permit it....
Good to know for when I visit .
Excellent series. Bloody good work sir...
Andy, a really enjoyable series, thanks. Last year I did an advanced road skills course run by BMW Rider Training based in Royston, North Herts (close to my home). I was really lucky as I was the only person on the particular course and my instructor was a local class 1 police rider. It was the best 3 days riding I’ve done and it culminated in me obtaining my RoSPA Gold advanced certificate. I was quite surprised how much progress you’re expected to make - you need to go for every overtake when it’s safe and cornering speed is expected to be quite high. This was one area we spent approximately half a day on, improving my cornering speed. It’s quite tiring! You would enjoy spending a day with the BMW Rider Training School and I’m sure they’d like to see you on the trusty old GS 😉
Thank you for posting. Great series and nice change of pace. Continue looking forward to your videos.
Loved all three episodes. Respect to the men in blue!
Back in the 70s our bike club used to meet at a pub and we had a talk from a police motorcycle instructor. He drew diagrams and used the old "Hoveringham" lorries (remember the Matchbox catalogue?) in his examples for determining one aspect of positioning from meeting 1 lorry in the opposite direction to meeting 3! (find your exit in the hedge). Very useful evening that.
Another well put together video with loads of great content.
Thanks Mr Flyer, you're the best.
Great set of videos! I went to uni in Bangor and spent 4 years riding around Snowdonia on my Aprilia RS125 2 stroke. I remember being pulled by traffic back then on the A55 as my tail light failed and they were sound back then too. Thanks for bringing back the memories!
Thanks for watching!
these 3 episodes should be on the TV, better than a lot of tosh that is on these days... well done, great content
Thank you Karl - they've had good viewing numbers (infact viewing figures some of the smaller TV channels would be proud of!)
The videos have been brilliant, thanks for that. Good to see how much the police "straighten the corners".
I had a great time on the police bike safe course. We were so lucky that day as we had one officer per person on the afternoon ride to North Wales. And yes they talked about positioning and their use of the other side of the road but couldn't emphasis enough that they will never sacrifice safety for position. And just spending a day with those guys can really improve your road riding, they were so keen to help and pass on their training. Great bunch of guys and can't recommend the bike safe course enough if you ever get chance to go on one. And great series, loved all 3 episodes.
Thanks David - glad you enjoyed them!
Really enjoyed the three episodes of you with the north Wales Police bike patrol, and also to see you on your trusty old GS, thank you...
Great videos. Having lived in the North West all my life, im used to the roads and scenery in North Wales and the Lakes. You forget at times how outstanding these areas are and its great to see the enthusiasm from someone who is not from this area. 👍
Very enjoyable series TMF, nice bunch of chaps.
Ahh, lovely that you visited Beddgelert. My wife and I worked for the National Trust there for a couple of years 2010-end 2012. We were the first to be involved with the re-opening of the trust’s shop, “Ty-Isaf” in the village, my wife being shop manager and myself as volunteer. Then you stopped at the cafe at Nant Gwynant, where we used to visit regularly as I was the volunteer warden at the Trust’s camp site “Hafod y Llan”, the entrance being about 20 yards further up. Which incidentally, is a cracking little basic campsite at the foot of Snowdon, no electricity, but does have camp fires, toilets and showers. Worth a stay over, but beware of the mozzies in late summer, not quite as ferocious as their Scottish cousins, but they do like a nibble. Thanks for the memories. I have really enjoyed this novel series.
Excellent! Glad you enjoyed it…
What a brilliant piece how I would love to be able to ride like a police motorcyclist and an interesting job to boot. Having been a lorry driver for the past 43 years I have a lot of respect for the job the roads policing units do.again a brilliant piece
Cheers Phil!
Just one point regarding open face helmets,another RUclips motorcycling channel did a very extensive piece on open face helmets, the gentleman concerned was in the police force, and new research has proved that injuries from open face helmets are more prevalent in places like Malaysia the far East and south America with denser population and are more likely to be sustained from contact with roadside obstacles like signs etc and although I agree a full face is probably safer the O F is not the bad guy it's portrayed to be.
Another great insight to life of a biker cop........stay safe............thanks for sharing
Another great episode. I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t enjoy this engaging and informative filmmaking. Great job 👏
Thank you Craig!
Speed cameras...... (cough) Safety cameras !!........ Nice series of videos Andy and a big thanks to the Police officers for taking part in this.
Really enjoyed watching the 3 episodes. They took you to some lovely roads, believe it or not there is more with less traffic!
Keep up the good work.
Will do - thanks for watching!
Great video series, what fantastic scenery and roads, Already have a mini tour in Wales booked for September on some of those very roads, so extremely helpful. Thanks.
My wife had an off years ago, no injuries but the chin bar of her full face helmet took a lot of damage. If she’d been wearing an open face helmet the consequences wouldn’t have been pretty.
I am old enough to remember several of my mates wearing " pudding basin helmets " Ouch !
When I started riding I don’t remember any biker having a full face ,they wore open face with visor or goggles ,I never knew of any one hitting their chin in a motorcycle accident .I got dragged over 50 yards down road after front end tyre deflation wearing a £5 Kangol open face helmet .I had no head or face injury’s ,but my left knee cap was torn open ,arm & ankle injures plenty of gravel rash .My clothes jacket & boots were shredded .I now wear flip face ,but only to keep out cold weather.
Klasse Serie. Hat mir gut gefallen ! Thumps up for the cops assistence . Cool Chaps in Uk 👍
Thx 4 the Series TMF . I like it a lot ! Def. considdering a Biketraining now ...😎
What a great trio of videos. Really good Andy. Well done.
Thank you Richard!
Very informative and enjoyable. Even found myself leaning into some of those bends!
Great set of videos....very interesting. Keep up the good work Andy!
Thank you Jeff!
Really enjoyed that series thanks.
What a great job you have Mr Flyer! Outstanding video trilogy! Great footage and commentary in an heavenly environment. I have ridden the B4391 and it is amazing. In fact I rode it back and forth a few times trying to get myself included in some filming of a car show there. I suspect TG but not sure. Alas I was not featured. I did try though! I had a nice Police moment yesterday, as I was riding in the Forest of Bowland area with my wife, when a Police officer on foot gave us a cheery wave! Made my day. Cheers!
Great series Andy, nice lads as well the Bike Cops.
Brilliant series, interesting and informative, great to watch.
Thank you Neil!
Brilliant job Andy. Made me feel home sick. 🏴🇦🇺
Excellent series TMF!! Thanks....
Great series of videos Andy, many thanks.
The Wales police could ask you a question… “Andy why do you blur your Speedo when on a new motorcycle “ lol.
Some say that it is not a blur, Andy uses British made speedometers that leak oil. 😃
All bikes imported to the UK have blury speedos. Fact! specifically on 📷
Rain drops ...........just a coincidence, officer.
Because he forgot to change from KMH to MPH :-)
@@WilliamAndrewPhilipBodie 👍
fantastic scenery, brilliant vid. Thank you Andy
Thabnk you Paul!
Once again a great video, having worked with the police on a numerous occasions its good to show the human side of the police...
Glad you enjoyed it!
Spectacular! I think this is one of your all-time best ones. The scenery, interspersed drone footage and questions - well done! You're getting pretty darn good at this stuff. I was struck by you comment about getting a brew which, I know, means either coffee or tea for you but here in the USA it would mean a beer. That difference among we cousins had never occurred to me before.
Cheers Dan!
Some cracking footage there Andy. Thanks for sharing
Great video as always!!
The guys seem a fantastic bunch, what cracking roads you have been riding!!
Brilliant content and commentary with the lads n all... nice one mate - well done...
Glad you enjoyed it - thanks for watching!
Stunning roads and views 👍🏻👍🏻 thanks for taking us along for the ride 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for watching....
Three cracking video. I enjoyed watching how the police ride . Great country side too. Just like in Scotland another great place to ride . Hope to see you out on the goldwing with your good lady soon. Ride safe take care.
Me too! Cheers James!
Thoroughly enjoyed this mini series. Some have commented that it's not ok to cross the centre line and the police shouldn't do it, forgetting that on a right hander, when road markings permit and it's safe to do so, you are allowed to cross the (broken) line to overtake. It's all about how far ahead you can see to be clear.
Laws on that vary from place to place.
@@oklahomahank2378 Yes i expect so but i am talking about the UK.
Great series Andy, makes for really interesting and informative videos
Very enjoyable videos , I ride around North Wales about 4 times per week some of the best biking roads in the U.K. imho, I consider my self very lucky to be able to do so, long May it continue , these guys (the police) are doing a great job. Come and enjoy North Wales.
Great sequence of vids, than you :-) I did Bikesafe in Hampshire a few years ago, curiously enough with an Andy! Great day out and generous of the officer to give up his day for us. Aside from having to try to ignore a fully painted bike following me, the lines were educational to learn and I like the copper's view of ignoring the 1,2,3,4 etc OCD thing in favour of a logical judgement to give visibility. Need to book a refresher soon...
I've loved that series. A great break from road testing (sorry to me it can get bit same old same.) Top job. How about a visit to Nathan the postman to try one of his posty bikes off road? Keep up the great work.
That would be a lot of fun to watch/do
Another great episode and nice to see some roads that I, even as a local, have not yet ridden.
Cool!
Great series mate, Thank you!
Brilliant trio of videos, great views and some good comedy moments too
Much appreciated!
A very interesting set of videos which reinforces the good pastoral work done by police bikers. You have to respect their riding skill, which we should all try and emulate. On the subject of open face helmets, I have a Kawasaki W800 and find that the open face gives me far more peripheral vision over full face helmets and makes me want to ride safely. I have also passed my IAM training, which I know has saved me from harm on at least three occasions over the past 25 years of riding and something I would advise all bikers to do.
An excellent trilogy and good PR for the police. You certainly look as if you enjoyed yourself.
Yes it was a very interesting day!
This has made me want to ride around Wales for a couple of days, beautiful scenes and roads, I can only imagine how good it would be in the sun. 👍🏻👍🏻