Detransition: A Group Discussion | from Genspect's Bigger Picture Conference
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2023
- Part of a series: bit.ly/DeTransStories
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@Genspect is a nonprofit resource organization providing evidenced based information and experienced care for all who are impacted by the rise of gender medicine. At the end of April, 2023, they hosted a "Bigger Picture" conference in Killarney, Ireland and invited me as a headliner to host a series of panels with persons who I've interviewed over the years. In this video I speak with Helena, Ritchie, Camille, Laura, Michelle, and Jett about their thoughts on transition, detransition, and how their perception of themselves and the future has evolved.
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Gender dysphoria is not a medical condition or diagnoses. It's a psychiatric diagnosis. I say that as a psychologist.
Yes, but which comes first (the chicken or the egg)? What if the overlooked diseases of modernity predict such psychological outcomes?
Clinical psychologist here. I agree, however, it has had hormonal interventions and medical procedures associated with it since day one. I do think psychology is too important to be left to the surgeons.
@@SG-df9er You are spot on. This is truly frightening that no one else is speaking openly about WHY all these kids are questioning their gender.
I think that's true. There are even trans people who agree with that also. The lovely Blaire White for instance. Learned recently a bit more about intersex people and in my opinion the young children should be able to grow up to discover themselves before having drastic procedures done to them. My heart goes out to young people who have issues and I certainly have issues with so called doctors who experiment on young people.
@@kristinepauwels4086
Intersex is something entirely different. Intersex is when inner and outer sex don't match . Physical sex. Like you have XX chromoseomes but have a penis. Or you are a hemafrodite. Both genitelia. It is very rare. App 0,017%. One woman estimated it to 1,7%. But she included lots of other conditions, and was proven wrong in later studies.
I don't understand why nobody's listening to these people. How is the medical profession allowed to get away with this.
Search Vanderbilt Trans Medicine scandal. It makes huge amounts of money. Also search Jennifer Bilek who has extensively researched who is funding this movement.
The second day of this conference collapsed into one conclusive sentence: it's a horrific medical scandal.
There is this thing called money. Some people like it more than life and decency.
Because some Trans folks committed suicide. Thats why
@@huckleberryharrison6248 Don't doctors have to recite an oath, to do no harm?
I lost all respect I had for natalie/contrapoints when I saw a tweet from Natalie screaming in all caps that detransitioners shouldn't speak about their experiences because it might take trans health care away from trans people. thank you for giving these brave souls a platform! I wish them nothing but peace and happiness ❤
Natalie needs to be advised that people who think they are the opposite sex don't need surgery or hormones, they need intensive psychotherapy
As if their experience isn't just as important.....
yes contrapoints channel went to hell quickly too.
Contrapoints surprised me with a very intolerant attitude and a 💯 ultra left viewpoint which doesn’t align at all with the videos that Contrapoints has done where we are shown a more objective / two sides approach towards the topics that are addressed . It made me feel like it was all fake .
Don’t sell this “intelectual “ “philosophical” unbiased dissection of the “truth” which comes undone if someone dares ask questions or even disagree with something.
I unsubscribed.
Everybody is equal, but some people are more equal than others.
This should be mandatory viewing at any gender clinic and high school. People need to hear both sides to make informed decisions.
99% of trans people are happy with their transition and they do learn about side affects and satisfaction rates. Just because there are two possible outcomes does not make those outcomes equal.
I can see a lot more detransitioners speaking out recently. A lot of detransitioners are afraid of speaking about their life experience because they are labelled as transphobes. I think a critical conversation is needed to help people make a fully informed decision. In any surgery, you are informed of every possible risks and side effects. I don't think they are fully informed if they are not being told the flip side of transitioning. I strongly disagree with children under the age of 18 being transitioned. It's their body they have to live with for the rest of their lives. No child will ever be aware of the ramifications of gender affirming care. I think its greedy surgeons and big pharma taking advantage of vulnerable people with a lot of mental health issues. My heart breaks for anyone who is suffering from body dismorphia, but I think that they should not have affirming care. They need to treat the mental health issues firstly. If you are not in a great state of mind, you should not be able to make life altering decisions. Just the same as someone after being medicated for surgery is advised not to sign any paperwork until the medication wears off, because it effects the decision making process. 😢😢
@@lindareidy2091 forcing trans kids to go through a disphoric puberty causes life long suffering. The fact is something like 99% of people who transition say it improved their lives. The fact is trans kids who have access to transition related medical care have better lives by a wide margin. You are being fed cherry picked examples by hate mongers to convince you to dominate the innocent. As a trans person who was a trans child let me tell you that I strongly believe you and yours need to keep your fascist mitts out of our lives. Your would be domination from ignorance is evil and you should be ashamed.
@@normanicole4714 where did you get that percentage ? It's not true. First of all 99 % of the people who came out as trans aren't even trans. Dysphoria is a real thing and I feel for these people and they deserve the best care as every other person with a severe mental or physical issue. 99 % are just brainwashed and some think the attention they get is important. When I hear and see some of these narcissistic people I do wonder if they did a day's work in their life. Lots of the transitioned people don't understand that they will spend a lifetime with mentally and physically fighting their own bodies and will need medical procedures for the rest of their lives. I do admire some brave trans people who dare to speak and are unanimous in their speech when they themselves say to leave children alone. Hands of the brains of our children.
@@normanicole4714if they are so happy, they shouldn’t be afraid of detrans people 😏
I am a 22 year old female who is just scratching the surface of who I am as a person and woman. The amount of shit some of these people went through before they were even 18 is insane to me. I feel very sad for these young women and men and I hope your lives are happy.
I’m surprised the phrase “medical malpractice” is never used. If you have back pain, and a surgeon suggests a procedure, doesn’t do a proper assessment, does the surgery, and you wind up more disabled rather than less, that’s a malpractice case. Am I missing something?
There is a lot of talk of malpractice. I believe the girl sitting in the middle also have a law suit against the clinic. I am not sure it's her.
The broader ideological system cuts across lawyers, judges, doctors, psychologists, school administrators, and on and on. That is quietly starting to change, but the system upholds the values for now. Hopefully, it changes, but whole professional organizations have built these values into their training and culture.
@@MW-ic7lr the culture to do their best to take care of a patient?
The problem is that there isn't a standard of care for trans healthcare (by design, which WPATH has openly said), so you can't say they went against the medical standards for the group. There are no best practices, and it's openly experimental. So when you consent to these medical procedures, you consent to being experimented on.
I don't agree with it, but my understanding is that this is the limitation people are dealing with.
@@jht3fougifh393 also ... with so much access - people can't claim ignorance
I like when he said "idk if these terms are helpful anymore but I'm in recovery." I think that's a far more accurate way to look at it than destransitioned
You will never be who you were. Or should have been.
What he said in that whole part and after around the 7min mark was insightful.
*she.
@@leahtv7778 Ritchie is a male, therefore it is he*
Yes. I think as one admitted, it’s a general word for a started common understanding, but then society can learn to move past it as a word, to its more accurate terms.
I really appreciated that viewpoint.
Ritchie said “you can’t get back what you’ve lost” so very true & very sad 😞 all these activist school counselors psychiatrist parents doctors destroying all these young people lives. 🤮 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
Sickening and infuriating.
Trans care helps the vast majority who take it. That is the reality you and yours refuse to grasp.
@@normanicole4714 It depends. A person may think it helps now and then 5-10 years later regret it. I saw a few people on youtube who were 10+ years in their transition and in my view passed very well, but started regretting it. Mostly because they realized the surgeries/treatment didn't do what they expected and were now regretting different aspets, such as not being able to have kids or the fact they had some medical complications or some health problems, not to mention having to take hormones all your life.
The fact is once you pass 40+, your looks fade and you become invisible to the world, especially as a woman. So if part of it was society's attention to you as a woman, it will affect you negatively when you age and your body becomes ... well, not as beautiful/fit etc. as when you were young. As you age, your priorities in life change and you regret everything that didn't help you get what you want NOW..even if in the past you didn't want that. Which is stupid.
Listening to some of the people, I just didn't get how you could transition for let's say 20 years, pass well in the sense that you look and are treated as the sex you want and regret it after 20 years. It mostly centered around some physical issues,but it was still a bit difficult to get.
I had gender issues in my childhood and teenage years, then simply decided to accept myself as a woman. The thing is I do not care about how people perceive me that much and do not believe it is possible for them to know "my true self". It's a whole debate, but this argument is just irrelevant to me. Some trans people seem to me too obssesed about how others see them and that's not healthy.
@@ciobalina7445 the fact is mist people who get gender affirming care don't regret it and most say it improved their lives. We have overwhelming data on that so I am not interested in uniformed hypotheticals. Transition solves trans peoples "gender issues" it no your place to judge or control others from your ignorance or fear. People will make their own choices.
@@normanicole4714if you are so confident in the result of transitioning then you shouldn’t freak out when detrans people talk about their own transitioning.
"the commodification of trauma" as potent as it is heartbreaking.
Must be amazing for all of these folks getting to have IRL interactions. Beautiful.
It was a phenomenal event. I didn’t make much content on the ground but I’ll be compiling stories for the next few weeks!
IRL in IRL, no less! :)
@@Spudcore boom boom 🤣
As a scientist and clinician, these conversations are both beautiful and immensely needed. I have been working on this issue for years, but the risk is that in my field we often gear our talks and publications to an academic public, while it is fundamental for this message to be both delivered by and shared with those very people who suffer from this type of trauma and abuse.
Well, this issue and many other angles of attack on the real to transform reality.
And the "alchemists" willingly will step over bodies and body parts to achieve the Utopia....the legal monopoly/corporate government/Zee Stakeholder capitalism
for some reason YT is preventing me from viewing the reply to you.
I hope you can contribute in a meaningful way to this crucial cause.
There’s really no overstating the sheer immensity of institutional capture by this Multi-Gender Gaslighting junk science, backed by billionaire philanthropists, corporate America & a seriously entrenched partisan interests
But this part of education in the academic realm is equally (or even more) needed because those are the people that influence those asking for guidance in the case of doctors, psychiatrist, doctors and so on or are those who educate or indoctrinate (as it is happening right now) the youth in the educational system (starting from kindergarten up to college and university).
curious- do you believe medical transitions is a solution for some? Because if you do not... thats part of the problem: its not about fact its about the feelings of the doctors.... its kind of like the whole if your a hammer everything is a nail... or the one from psychology.... "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar..."
@@Iwoasasaned I agree with you. In my view, this is due to a variety of factors. I have been teaching in universities & medical schools both in the US and abroad, and unfortunately, I see a catastrophic “lowering of the bar,” especially in the US and Canada. Part of the problem is certainly indoctrination, but at the basis of such indoctrination is the inability of teachers & students (thus, future doctors & therapists) to understand basic statistics, research methods & study design. Thus, they end up citing articles which are not scientific papers, but “opinion pieces” with no scientific quality whatsoever. I was horrified to see some of these very citations in recent publications such as Nature, Scientific American and the NEJM, which until a few years ago were extremely respectable publications. Anyone with basic training in statistics and theoretical medicine can read these new publication and spot errors, falsifications, and misrepresentations. But then again, if there is no basic training, those papers end up being considered “scientific standards.”
So sad when the young man said, “Who will want to be with me, who will want me sexually?” How can MDs do this? 😔
She's a woman. She detransitioned not to be referred to as male.
The point is all of them were women biologically and because of that they took testosterone and surgery like mastectomy to remove their mammary glands.
@@Haegemon um. There are biological/assigned at birth males here as well. You can’t say you had your balls cut off and a “nice little pocket made” and be a biological/assigned female at birth. Perhaps you didn’t watch the whole thing.
Trans care helps most people who take it and gives them better lives, so doctors, doctors would do this.
@@normanicole4714what transpeople should do is to learn self-love, accept their original body. If distorting/mutilating your body makes you “happy”, you have a mental problem.
I really like your open style of following the panel where they wanted to go instead of having an agenda of your own. I really appreciate everyone on this panel for being willing to share.
"...following the panel where they wanted to go..." I hope I don't lost in so many individual experiences, which can happen for me in a free-ranging discussion among strong minds.
Benjamin looks so full-size, as we haven't seen before. 🙂
Someone else summed it up “you get older, your body grows, your hormones do their job and you learn to accept yourself.” If you don’t give children the opportunity for this to happen there is no magic wand if they change their mind.
Except that does not happen for trans people. There is no magic wand to undo the changes if you force a trans kid to go through puberty that makes them hate their body even more.
To everyone on this panel. I want to say that I am sorry for what you have all been through, and I appreciate you all so much for speaking about your experience. It is so incredibly important.
Thank you, Benjamin. I’m honored to be part of this discussion.
Thank you for sharing your experience, you were so well-spoken!
I'm not a detrans but I very much relate to how you felt about not feeling like the correct woman, but then realizing there is no correct way to be a woman
I also sympathize with the part where you felt like the media is trying to get your story, but you aren't able to speak your mind. i'm glad i came across this video to see you all speak freely
Thank you Laura for coming to Ireland and for sharing your thoughts with us. I was at the conference. I wish you well for your future.
Thank you for sharing your life with us.
You spoke so beautifully. I love the grief and generativity you touched on.
Transition as a maladaptive coping mechanism is such an eloquent summary of what we are witnessing. It’s commodification through the medical profession is an historical ethical scandal of unprecedented proportions now that they’ve turned it upon children.
It remains frankenscience even on adults
It was founded on children since transgenderisms beginnings. John Money, the evil father of gender ideology experimented on two twin boys and made them perform sex acts.
No. It proven medicine that helps people.
@@normanicole4714 no, it's not.
@@azsunburns the data is overwhelming. On one hand we gave doctors offering proven care that helps most who take it and on the other we have bigots who don't care what is true and ignore all the science.
Richie saying he's "in recovery" from medicalization to disguise his sex is a perfect way to describe it. Every patient should have his or her needs addressed in the way that is most individually beneficial.
Benjamin is an excellent facilitator on these panel events. Letting people talk freely without over steering the conversation is really effective
WHY are these honest people not speaking at schools ! THIS IS REAL EDUCATION! Not the trash they are mad feeding our children !
Definitely not allowed!!
@@laurakosch time to push the AGINDA
Like I said to a medical question above it's Lysenkoism. in this case it's Educational malpractice pushing Medical Lysenkoism. It's because the public schools are mired in Educational Lysenkoism. This would have happened if Paulo Freire's Gnostic perverted pedagogical magic hadn't been adopted in America by fools that didn't understand the difference. Those fools are gone and we have a new round of the same.
@@dianafrancisco9689 they're "honest" because what they believe is lined with your agenda. The fact that you rely on schools to teach your kids basic human nature says a lot about your ability to parent.
@@Vizible21 I raised 4 children and now have 13 grandchildren..
You’re right, you are “Guinea pigs” as doctors and specialists try to help you detransition, just as you were Guinea pigs when others helped you TO transition. This is entirely new and uncharted territory on all fronts. But speaking out like you’re doing here and testifying in court ensures those like you will have more resources when they decide to detransition, and may even prevent or dissuade transitioning in the first place.
We have 100 years of data on trans people. If you don't take the time to learn about the subject then yea it will look like there is no data. That's your failing not medicines.
I have 2 older kids that are transitioning. 16 and 21. Both girls.
It’s been at least 2 months since my girls have spoken to me.
I have from the start, 5 years ago, refused to agree with this.
I think they both have a lot of mental health issues and they both refuse to go see a phycologist more often ( I tried, their father doesn’t care but agrees with them transitioning.)
My heart has been broken and I am seeing someone as I have nobody to talk to.
Being the parent of this madness is absolutely killing me and also my youngest daughter thinks children should have puberty blockers… I refuse to let her near her little brother who is 4.
I did not disown them. The walked away from me.
My oldest is on testosterone and that scares the living hell out of me. I tried to understand this. For years. But nothing made sense. They don’t come across as men. They dont dress like it. They never showed signs when they where little.
As far as i can see it’s social media, schools, friends and doctors affirming this and then parents having to choose what to do. Neither my kids felt they had anything to lose by cutting me out of their lives. When they are ready to come back as my kids, not these other people I do not like, then I will be there to help.
I just can’t bring this into my sons life.:(
I hate myself for this. I love and miss them so much.:(
I am so sorry your girls have essentially been kidnapped by the cult. I am a mum of one daughter in the UK. She is not allowed any social media and school knows it can expect legal action if they groom my child on behalf of the cult.
I'm really sorry, that must be heartbreaking... however, I am also sure that you are doing the right thing.
When my mother told me that she doesn't care how I dress, but that I shouldn't take drugs or have surgeries - that I can do what I want but I'll never change what I am... I hated her, and I refused to see her. My father was hesitant, but he accepted what I said, and I'd always had a good relationship with him.
About a year later, remembering what my mother had told me, I detransitioned. Today, I thank her all the time because her heartfelt words made me think twice before committing to any surgery. My father never agreed fully, but he had never expressed his thoughts in a way that would have made me think. Ultimately, it was my mother who saved me. I bear minimal changes from testosterone, and my life is mostly normal.
I know that your daughters may not have the same experience, but I believe that children do listen, even if they don't want to hear it at first. The older I get the more I am like my mother. If they come to their senses - I hope that they do soon - they will be grateful to you. Don't lose hope. I wish your family all the best.
💔😢
@@Wasserbienchen thank you. I appreciate you talking to me about this.
Your situation sounds similar to ours ( I have 3 daughters and one son just to be clear) and my middle daughter is in as much of a dilemma as me.
Your dad sounds the same as their dad. Hesitant but accepts it.. but with no real opinion.
Hasn’t ever reached out to talk to me about it, ( or anything in their lives..)It’s hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I don’t agree with something especially when it comes to my kids. I did a lot of research and back tracking on their lives… I tried to understand this. And nothing makes sense. Oldest did it because she was lonely and had to find somewhere to fit in. Youngest is doing it because she has something to prove.
The last thing she said to me was I needed to open my eyes to the fact I have two trans kids. And that her baby brother deserves someone that will help him turn into a girl. She believes in hormone therapy… for kids. So I will not let her near him.
My oldest. She’s been in this for 5 years. We tried to talk. We where amicable for a few years while I, not her, researched being trans. Her issue is I would come back and ask to many questions that offended her. So one week before her 21st, her and her sisters took me to lunch and dropped the testosterone bomb. I just couldn’t deal with the news, and told her that if she thinks soooo much that she’s a man I then prove it. Start acting like one. Omg totally wrong thing to say and I called her arrogant.
I knew she was gonna do something to completely kill me and she did.
Then a week after her 16th my youngest announced she was Elliott and demanded I accept her. And if I didn’t I was the worst mother on earth.
I said no and here I am. Lost two kids and depressed and so messed up as I don’t know what happened.
I’m glad you eventually listened to your mum.
It scares me my oldest is taking testosterone.
How did it affect you in the end? Can you still have children if you choose?
If I’m asking to many questions or you do t want to answer them that’s fine. I understand.
Curious as they won’t tell me. Did
the doctors tell you the consequences of a woman taking a lot of testosterone?
Or did they just affirm you and give you the stuff.
I have so many questions that nobody will answer.
Ive been trying to ask anyone that will talk to me and so far, not one but you has actually reached out.
Thankyou. I appreciate your story.💖
You obviously didn't do a good job at raising them 2 children girls and I can't believe you still have a small child a son who is 4.
44:31 Her experience sounds word for word like what people who have left cults describe, especially the part about trusting yourself. These detransitioners could probably find empathy and support from cult survivors. They'll find out from many of those "elders" that that process of rebuilding self-trust can ultimately result in creating a very solid person.
The progressive cult, or whatever you want to call it, will go down as the biggest widespread cult in history. When you talk to these people, one one one, they can repeat what the cult leaders have told them but they can't explain why they believe it. They have been programmed.
It is a cult.
Thank you for the time stamp, that was a fascinating part of the interview. You’re so right, it ticks the boxes of the experiences people seem to express having been in a cult.
This was a wonderful gathering. Keep strong everyone. You are loved and blessed. 🌲🐿
This is by far and away the most human deep-dive conversation I've ever listened to in all of this diabolical nightmare of the last several years. Outstanding work by everyone present, and thank you Benjamin for being such an open, gentle guide in the process.
Medical malpractice. Thank you to all the brave people on the panel. 👏👏👏👏👏
Actually trans care leads to better life outcomes for most people who undertake it. In the world of truth and honesty where we look at things objectively there is never going to be valid malpractice cases because all medicine and medical procedures have regret rates. The regret rate for breast augmentation for cis gender women is much higher than the regret rate for transition for example. You can be on the side of truth and harm reduction or not. It's not where you stand now.
@@normanicole4714 The use of the term "cis gender women" disqualifies you as to "being on the side of truth and harm reduction".
@@hexxan007 no. It does not. It gives me the ability to describe reality with the most nuance. How broken you are.
@@normanicole4714 I am not the one who is broken, but thanks for your concern. I wish you and your thoroughly washed brain all the best. Just refrain from insulting sane and true women, thank you.
@@normanicole4714 ps: in reality, men cannot become women nor the other way around. That is why there is no need for an additional term to specify men and women. Your "nuance" is nothing but a harming insult. Strange that you do to others what you pretend to want to stop ...
I am so emotional watching this... the trauma these young people have endured from it all. They have been failed by society, by the medical establishment... I wish them all the best. I hope they find healing and peace. It is so complex, so overwhelming... I also don't know how we fix this.
10:16 “medical trauma survivor”.
That’s better than de-transitioner for sure.
I've been listening for ten minutes and the whole thing is heartbreaking. These poor people have issues and were sold a false cure by charlatans and ideologues. It's a crime, really, and no one is being held accountable
Trans care helps most who take. The conservative perception does not match reality which is you don't understand.
@@normanicole4714 You have no basis to make this claim. Mental illness is subjective, not objective. The UK National Health Service has just banned puberty blockers for gender transitions for minors because it's insane. Stop medicalizing and mutilating kids
@@normanicole4714 You are on a video about people who transitioned and then found out it didn't help them. It actually created more problems for them. So your comment is very misplaced here because it's got nothing to do with the video.
Maybe you are right, but in this video I see around 6 people that are around the same age who were harmed by this. The trans community is not that big. How is this possible? These cannot be all the people regretting it because most people in the trans community are not interesting in putting their stuff online. So I'm going to believe what I see and not what some people with an agenda see.
These people were trans at some point. They have no agenda in this apart from understanding what happened to them and processing it. They were diagnosed with gender disphoria and everyone around them told them they were trans and should transition. They underwent treatments that affected their bodies forever. What possible thing can they gain from this? How does this compute? Explain this.
@@ciobalina7445 there are bigots who want to block all trans care because of these experiences in the comments. People are using the experiences of this tiny minority of trans people as an excuse to trample trans rights. Those people regularly absorb detransition content so the algorithm will put many of them here. It should be clear from the comments. So NO. My comments are extreamly pertantly placed. I will stand against a false narrative that people ARE using at the legislative level to oppress trans people. So No. Just no. Get a clue.
Wait, Benjamin has legs?
@Helena Blavatsky .... Yes...seen them many times myself through the gap under the door, atop the stairs leading out of the basement 😿
@@NinjaKittyBonks You could have said something, kitty!
@@helenablavatsky9136 [call police…again] Last time Benjamin distracted them with Jere-Meme’s Coffee Brand Coffee, they were lost in calmversation and said he had no basement, only an attic.
.
Mr. Benjamin is a crafty one he is 😾
@@NinjaKittyBonks (dialing in frustration) You two, I swear...this is becoming habitual. I never heard of that coffee brand before...must be a west coast thing. Sigh.
@@helenablavatsky9136 ... I hear Mr. Benjamin's key in the front door latch.... hurry! Tell FNPS (Furrball Ninja Protective Services} to check behind water heater. Benjamin turned on the air conditioning to full blast in basement and haz to huddle for warmth 🥶😿
One can only imagine how many people detransition but are unwilling to speak out, due to fear of persecution by activists.
as long as they speak their stories - its fine.. the reason they may get backlash is when they are trying to make a platform and use that to stop others abilities to seek out care.... just because it was a terrible thing for them, does not mean it is for all...
There are enough already we don't need more.
@@christianwoman1346 EVERY story is important
@@balsarmy They are all the same stories
It should be fair for people who detransitions to organize into a collective so they could fight for their rights too.
I've got to say... I've been following this topic for years now and this is the first conversation, or panel, where I don't hear the same points being hashed out. This is a candid look at what these human beings are facing, away from the usually de-humanizing political framework we tend to see them in. As they say, de-transitioners tend to be used for political ping pong between opposing factions all the while everyone forgets about their real need for compassion and care. Thank you for speaking so frankly about what I can only imagine is a sore and traumatic subject.
And here a talk from the conference explaining how it became normalised for children:
ruclips.net/video/wrdHkIOFKAg/видео.html
Wow, Ritchie Herron has this issue down. It has to be hard to acknowledge you've been "taken in" by people who are essentially cultists. Tough person - respect....
Detransition......is that where the transgender surgery is reversed and the person reverts to original gender....how did they get sucked in as young people..where was the advice and warnings from good people who know the risks etc...Hy don't they have to live as a woman for a few years to really see how women really live....
When he said “the people that want you to testify don’t care about you”, I thought that’s partially true. Only because it is widely thought that it’s too late for them now. It isn’t a therapy session. I don’t want to be cold, but at this point, the only thing to do is to make sure we stop this horrible practice by sharing their stories.
They do care. That's why they want people to testify.
I had that thought, too. The purpose of testifying is not to heal the person who is testifying. And I agree, there is very strong concern for these people who’ve been through so much trauma, and putting them in the spotlight like that. At the same time, how do we keep more children from being traumatized in the same way? We have to have some people to share the trauma of what happened to them.
I think he meant that journalists etc don't care about the wellbeing of the detransitioner they just want a story. They may care about showing the consequences of transition but they may not care if they're pushing the actual person or retraumatising them
@@empire_of_sand yeah. That’s what I figured. I think it’s only partially true. I think they care about the detransitioners, but also realize it’s too late for them. I don’t think they intentionally dismiss their struggle, but may seem indifferent because they are hyper focused on stopping this from happening in the future. Of course, it’s possible that they don’t care at all and just want a story. Idk really
@@jamestillman3150 well the reality is very few of us have answers for them and can tell them where to go. Maybe some niche psychologist who hasn't drank the koolaid can process this stuff... but normal people? Good luck. Its not that I/we aren't sympathetic but we are at the boundary of answers. However, we can do things to improve our state from the here and now but no solution
Thankyou your views are really helpful. I am a doctor trying to fight against the takeover of the profession by this abusive process.
These young people are soooo intelligent. Even more so because of what they’ve been through. Almost superhuman depth of understanding.
I don‘t see it as detransition but more like Ritchie said recovery. Or progression to the real original inner self, with all those experiences and reflexion on what had happened and why. Physical recovery is not fully possible when so much damage was done but mental recovery can help to become healthier physically &mentally bc body and mind are one system, not separate entities..
Thanks Benjamin for the discussion and huge thanks to all the guests! Wishing you all the very best! I hope you all find doctors who care for you, who try to find the best way to recovery with you together by listening to you carefully with an open mind, putting aside any bias that was possibly forced on them by activists..
The one guest said “medical trauma survivor”. That’s good.
Like the word 'uncircumcized'
Sending you all 💙 & my care & thoughts. I hope you all find happiness in whatever shape that takes 🤗
Hey Benjamin, I just started watching your channel not that long ago, I think you’re doing amazing work. You and Jason Evert are going about helping the trans community the right way; not by yelling what is right (also good in some cases), but by being compassionate and guiding those who need help and want to talk.
This is so heart breaking. The suffering, just can feel it right off. Stay strong detransitioners.
Having this happen to your child is every (competent) parent's worst nightmare.
This is why we need to get groomers out of schools, stop trusting doctors and keep our kids off Tik Tok etc. Stop folding when some green-haired predator calls you "transphobe".
What these people needed was not affirmation or "inclusivity". It was an adult in their life to say "No!" This is not in your best interest. I don't care if you call me a bigot. I'm not going to let you hurt yourself.
There are no trans kids without abusive woke adults in their lives.
Amen.
I fully agree, it almost happened to my son, every instinct in me was to protect him and not affrim him which lead to him temporarily disliking me. He came out the other side unharmed and recently turned 18. It was absolutely terrifying and months of sleepless nights for me, his father and younger brother. It deeply saddens me when I hear this young people's tragic stories 😢
P😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Abusive, or weak. My parent is weak. An enabler. She wants to "preserve the relationship" above all else, which included never giving me her real opinion and being terrified to disagree.
Living in a home like that, you do not have a chance. They sit back while you make crazy designs and smile.
By wanting to preserve it she is killing it.
42:17 the importance of highlighting the connection between diet and "mental health" can not be overstated.
These young people are simply amazing. They’re smart, eloquent and sensitive. They are probably somewhat self absorbed. I can’t understand why they fell into that trap. I can’t imagine what those criminal doctors will do to kids that are not as smart as these are.
Its a crime against sanity that Ben does not have a millions subs, he deserves so much more.. hopefully in time we will get there
All in good time.
I for one am very grateful that you guys are speaking out and doing interviews. Doctors and psychiatrists are not supposed to give any information about the negative side effects of body dysmorphia or transitioning. THANK YOU!!! For speaking out and sharing your experiences. I wish each of you nothing but success going forward. ❤️
".....it gives you answers to all of lifes most existential questions"
The most profound statement about the trans movement ive heard
I’m sharing this on every parent group. Utah is in big trouble. False compassion from as high as the governors office.
‼Right up the UN, WEF, and Human Rights Commissions!
Much love to all these young men and women for speaking up.
Eye-opening - thanks to all the participants! It confirms for me that this is about the ups and downs and challenges of the normal growing up process. How to learn to accept yourself, to live in your changing body, bravely using your creativity, your intellectual/spiritual thirst, being curious about the older generations and what they can offer in terms of experiences and wisdom. It is about setting meaningful goals for yourself. Your work in this area is unparalleled and excellent, Benjamin!
I can't help but see how incredible all these young people are. And like Laura stated, it's got to be difficult and emotionally exhausting to step up and talk about it while in the middle of coping with it. It's painful just thinking about how these individuals are coming forward to speak and give their personal testimony - at the same time they're trying to deal with, or adapt, or move past the worst stages of this gender-fraud and all that it contains. This is an enormous amount of courage and perseverance. I know there must be many more we'll never hear from who simply cannot speak about their experience to anyone. This kind of testimony is unique and very important and can only be provided by those who are living it.
So true! Trying to heal while coming to terms with who you really are, your authenticity, unlearning what you've been lead to believe but didn't work, is such a huge journey. To then also feel a responsibility to advocate, testify, and trying to stop the contagion of other young people, must be immense and taxing. Every one on this panel deserves good mentoring, and the space to self heal and set new boundaries. Coming out into the gender identity/ideology crazed world we see now, that is pushed by government policies, education authorities, world organisations like WPATH, UN, WEF, who all have departments in every country, and big corporations wanting to cash in on profits from the glamorous LGBTIQ++ 'community', and not to forget BigPharma and Big medical complex, is another 'coming out' in a world that is hostile to desisters/detransitioners. We must all learn to walk in their shoes and be good mentors. Thank you for speaking on camera to all in a safe acknowledging Genspect environment. Much love to all.
What are great comment, thank you for writing that.
The sad part..is some of these people that are attention focused.... which is one of the causes they get caught up into transitioning... people are still putting them on stages to de-transtion... so fame and attention for transitioning and fame and attention for de .... sad
@@Jasminestealth1 Well, tell that to the whole of the Instagram 'community'! Blame it on these transition survivors? What a sad/judgemental view you have!
@@scorpina69 listen to the narratives ! That is the argument every anti-trans affirmative care (minus of course the just plain hateful people who just don't like trans) speaks to -especially for young ftm - claiming rapid onset ... the claim is these young people are being influenced and groomed - and medical institutions are in it for money. So if this is the case - why would we then again not only platform de-trans that talk about how they were influenced to think they were trans - but now tell these people how brave they are now??? It's the same in reverse and now young can get cake and eat it too!! Unfortunately it will also come with life time of distress
Bravo to you and the panel for having this open conversation-sorely needed. I pray my 20 year old cousin who recently had top surgery will see this when she finally realizes she has been sold a lie.
Trans care improves the lives of most people who take it according to those people, even years later. The lie is with you.
This is so comforting to hear their stories. Thank you, all of you. You give hope to us parents. I can't imagine the pain you've gone through. Prayers for you.
Just remember that pain is gender dysphoria. Its exactly the sane pain trans kids who are denied trans related healthcare go through. Conservatives would make far more suffering than they would prevent
What an incredibly articulate group of young people!!!
Sincere and heartfelt thanks.
12:30 The sooner this topic gets depoliticised, the better. Left/Right divisions should have no bearing in countering trans activism.
Absolutely , this topic presents such a serious threat to young people and women, free speech, free thought and democracy, petty politics should be put aside. I am 50, have voted left since 18, but stand alongside anyone fighting this insidious and harmful cult. In the UK, Christians and Muslims are finding common ground in this topic and putting differences aside. The left and right are too . The bigger picture matters more.
Meanwhile feminists have been talking about this issue since ever. Matt Walsh for instance is very aware of their existence yet he doesn't debate with them, only with trans activists, who are easily debunked.
Pushing this stuff helps democrats with getting votes from young women. Democrats winning elections depends highly on getting the female vote. I don see it being depoliticized until democrats start losing those votes.
@@Aireck174 That’s what it’s all about. Same reason they are soft on crime and for open borders.
@@Aireck174as an American woman I don’t feel safe voting for either party. They both want to control our bodies in different ways. We need a new system. I believe in the right to terminate a pregnancy and I do not think what doctors and psychologists are doing to vulnerable people resulting in life long trauma and scars is right.
Detransition is a new thing so I'm not surprised we dont have proper care in place for them. What doctors could help them? No one even knows enough. Just like we are experimenting on transitioners we are experimenting on detransitioners. Such a MESS we are in and it's SO not fair to either of these groups.
I don’t think there’s much that can be done for the double mastectomy survivors, you can’t reattach the really specific tissues in breasts, nor can you regrow a womb and ovaries.
I believe recovery from a de-sleeving is the same as other traumatic flesh-loss (like a sanding band accident) and recovery, and that be related to scar tissue management. And the wound that would be linked to the arm-flesh might also be able to slowly heal but I believe it would need supervision from medical staff because you can’t stitch up a wound of that size and shape, and they need to make sure that the wound doesn’t heal in a more damaging way (like closing the urethra)
But for the men who’ve had their urinary tracts severely traumatized, we really need to find a way that would let their bodies heal without healing over the urethra. Currently they’re stuck with permanent wounds that they have to re-open to avoid that, and some have to keep on estrogen and anti-androgens or the remains of the p is going to recover some arousal function and that results in pain and possibly internal tearing. :(
Congrats to stella and benjamin and all at genspect. Lovely compassionate people. Props for allowing them to gather in a non judgemental space. glad they can make friends.
100 %
The public at large really need to hear these stories and see what's really going on. I'll be sharing this with friends, family and social media groups.
It's all over RUclips and social media it's already at large. Its doesn't matter if all kids, teenagers and parents see that transition will still happen.
@@christianwoman1346 Sadly you are correct.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan
@@christianwoman1346 I'm claiming that the majority of people aren't seeing these stories because the major news outlets are overwhelmingly Left with many activists intentionally not reporting on them. Instead they largely promote woke ideology or at least enable it. You also have big tech algorithms that keep people blind to it. Small example - my sister is not Woke but when I told her that K-12 are largely indoctrination mills and drag queens are reading to children in libraries, she thought I was crazy. I've heard these stories from many others.
I would think more people would know about this. I started learning about it about 3 months ago. I started asking questions but most people don’t think it’s true. They think it’s being made up. I’m sorry about that. I think people are afraid they will lose their job if they ask question. I love you and all of the people who have gone through this.
These are strong people. They went through a crucible, one which most people couldn’t imagine.
Every trans person who is denied care knows what they are going through because the pain of gender dysphoria is the same in both cases.
It's so important that these young people speak. My deepest respect for each one of these brave people.
What an amazingly resilient and perceptive group of people, interviewed by a genuinely curious and compassionate soul. I'm in no way religious, but I find myself wanting to wish all of them good will and blessings on their journey.
The perspectives offered by the panel guests are a profound testimony to the strength and resilience of the human spirit. As a clinical therapist, i am grateful to them for sharing the insights and reflections they have gained from their personal journeys as their ideas help ground me in my own practice and desire to understand each person whom i encounter. Thank you, Benjamin, for the consistent sensitivity and humility with which you conduct your Calmversations - and panels. :-) All the best to you and your guests.
I have immense respect for the Richie dude. To be able to make jokes about going through difficult stuff like that is so hardcore I can't put it into words. Also a very good public speaker.
Oh dear lord, how are medical professionals 'treating' young people so radically? The hormones, surgeries, the obvious ignoring of the social contagion element. It's just insane that people with such terrible mental illness & trauma are allowed to mutilate themselves this way.
For the leaders of the cult 1. Its profitable and 2. It helps democrats/left greed for power and control.
For the followers, they are brainwashed and think they are civil rights heroes on the "right side of history"
As I understand it, they have no choice in some jurisdictions. In those regions, they're forced into 'gender affirming care', with the threat of losing their license to practice if they don't participate. Though, I am sure there are some practitioners who enthusiastically participate. e.g. that FL doctor who "yeets the teets".
Thank you for testifying. I am so sorry you weren't treated well but you are heroes for doing it. You will help so many people by doing that. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. By the way speaking when you're not a public speaker takes courage. I will be praying for you.
This was deeply moving and brought me to a huge realisation... Prior to watching these incredibly brave people so badly failed and ultimately physically damaged by the entire umbrella of the medical industry, my stance was that I didn't really care what adults chose to do to their bodies as long as they left our children alone. However, watching this, it hit me like a ton of bricks that we absolutely should care about the adults as well!! I'm an empath, and the collective trauma I felt that emanated from these beautiful souls was palpable, particularly the betrayal by those who's job it is to be a safety net for adults in distress and hopefully protect them from themselves similar to how we would hospitalise a dangerously emaciated anorexic and feed them back to health. But instead, these patients clearly suffering from serious mental distress, were exploited and indulged in their delusions to such an extent that Dr's signed off on surgeons to hack off the perfectly healthy body parts of these victims, because victims is exactly what they are, without any peer reviewed studies showing evidence that mutilation of a mentally distressed person will in any way eradicate their psychological problems, and most of them were actually well into adulthood proving that being an adult provides them zero protection or guarantee of making a sound decision as clearly demonstrated by the vastly increasing numbers of detransitioners. And I'm now of the stance that body mutilation shouldn't be sanctioned for mentally distressed patients, neither chi or ADULTS!! The negative to positive ratio is certainly not paying off with a far far higher number of detransitioners than transitioners who actually benefit from such radical surgery. Gender affirming surgery as a treatment for body dysmorphia /dysphoria should absolutely be outlawed in a civilised society, or returned to how the rules used to be, of requiring a patient to live and present as the sex they feel they are for an extended period of time before the possibility of irreversibly altering the body via surgery, particularly the removal of sex and reproduction organs, is explored. But this just opened my eyes to the fact that we must also protect our adults who are clearly not of sound mind to make such radical decisions and hold the medical industry accountable for not only contributing to their confusion but positively encouraging it, often with catastrophic results as we clearly heard from this outstanding panel who courageously revealed the truly horrific suffering they've endured as a result of pseudo science and experimentation on an already vulnerable section of society.
This is such emotional
Eye opener ….. my heart goes out to them all
Thank you BB
You have found your place
Beautiful and respectful
Interviewer who allows people to speak 🕊
This was such an enlightening and respectful conversation, and it really opened my eyes about how important it is to listen to detrans people instead of making assumptions and speaking on their behalf. They have been used by so many people to push agendas on these talk shows that use them for trauma porn, that must only exacerbate their distrust.
Treyvaud’s restaurant in Killarney has a no 🍆 allowed in the ladies room policy. Allegedly the ‘other’ gendr conference asked local places to make their restrooms neutral. The owner declined! I’d post a link but yt deletes it.
Really, they deleted it? 😡
Cancel culture is severe! But this restaurant owner has been in the media with his story, he sounded very confident. While women from #LetWomenSpeak event in Dublin were refused bar service and were even thrown out of establishments there for wearing a t-shirt with GC slogans. What a world we're living in! 🙃🙄
@@helenablavatsky9136 😡👿
I saw that. All the restaurateur is doing is applying existing laws. Men have no right to our single sex spaces, but organisations and businesses have been given legal advice and guidance from the likes of stonewall. They apply the law 'as they would wish it to be' rather than what it actually states.
@@clairhonnor6211 I also heard that the EPATH conference organisers that took place in Killarney simultaneously with Genspect conference, requested local businesses to 'liberate' their bathroom facilities to 'gender neutral'! Kick female born to the curb and let them bleed there 🤢! Empty & wash out menstrual cups in front of 'she-males'? No thanks! 😡
I love Ritchie. He is just so clear sighted about what is behind a lot of this phenomenon. I think if he can ever resolve his own journey he would be a wonderful therapist in this space.
Thought: can't really blame journalists for "trying to get the story" , especially if they are oppose the concept of transitioning.
I recall the Calmversation that Helena had with Tucker that was very kind and respectful and compassionate. I felt emotional about that interview.
I don't think they themselves should blame journalists or media pundits for trying to get the message out there immediately to show the younger kids who are being roped into this that it simply isn't a good thing, at all.
Maybe these detransitioners feel like they're being used for certain reasons, and they're not wrong. They are being used. They're being used as examples to hopefully prevent tens of thousands of kids now going down the same path and destroy their lives.. That's a noble cause to be used for, honestly.
@@ThatNorwegianGuy- Yes I agree, seems like the point is that when a journalist is exploiting your story, that's different from journalists helping your story to get out.
Getting the message out there is great and important. I think the problem comes when people try to use these young people as props to prove that the left has gone too far, and the only possible way to combat this is to turn to right wing Christianity. Which for some people might be the answer. But for others they still want to be able to be accepted as nuanced beings with many different perspectives.
Also, when the right wing media focuses on, as one of the panel said “Trauma porn,” it also feeds the narrative that detransitioning is a reactionary or right wing act. Which it isn’t. Unfortunately many on the left have pushed people out by claiming that they’re no longer on the left if they don’t stay in their prescribed position.
What would be nice is if more left wing, or even just mainstream media, would touch this subject and allow these folks to have a platform instead of pretending that it’s not happening.
As much as I dislike the media…they are what they are…but if not for them I would not know to watch these videos. So,while I do understand..they do disseminate information.
@@goodgrief888 thanks for your views. i agree with a lot of your points. It’s a shame if the issue becomes like a political football and I generally find the categorisation of political and social views as binary left/right as not helpful. This issue hasn’t been helped by non conservative media either ignoring the issue or simply framing it as “ trans rights “ and insinuating anyone else is a bigot.
You all are brave for speaking out, sharing your stories, spreading awareness, etc. This goes against all the agendas.
stop speaking to how "brave" they are... this is the kind of encouragement that got them into the mess to begin with.... OH your so Brave that you know who you are and you transition.... appreciate their stories... appreciate the reality of how to show compassion for others struggles
Thank you for platforming these incredible young people, Benjamin. So much hard-won wisdom out of the mouths of babes.
Now go listen to the other 99% of trans people who say transition made their lives better. They are brave too especially in light of all the hate, lies, and false narratives being directed against them and their rights.
20:47 I'm feeling the pain of how awful it must be to be used as a political tool and humans getting directed to tell their real experiences with a ranking of impactfulness being applied to their personal stories. I think the problem here is that those politicians or journalists who want detransitioners to testify feel the same moral obligation to stop this from happening asap and that can only be achieved by good rhetoric structure of the argument against minors transitioning. So I understand both sides and I think it really is a race against time because the cultural *and* institutionalized force behind affirmative care and DIE strategies is so enormous that the comparatively few people who are speaking out against it need to be mobilized as quickly and effectively as possible to make an impact on legislation as well as other young people who might be thinking about altering their body forever but not realizing that it is a permanent change because they are being lied to by these seemingly trustworthy institutions and professionals. This is why these public conversations and the visibility of all of you is so important and so needed right now. Thank you all for your courage to speak out. You are saving lives.
This is just fantastic, guys, thanks so much
I think it's disgusting that there are "journalists" who took advantage of these vulnerable people for the shock value of their stories. I am glad they found this safe place. The only reason to share these stories should be to educate and inform and hopefully save others from experiencing such irreversible consequences. Thank you ❤️
It's great how safe and heard you make them feel Ben!
15:22 the question of “what is wrong with me” in the teens is completely natural. ALL teens feels that way during puberty and their teens.
Wonderful to see this all star lineup
Thank you all for talking, so mad that you are being pulled and pushed by various entities. This is very healthy and is very needed - wishing you all well❤
Thank you everyone for sharing your stories, and especially the attention you bring to the support needed for people and not the "commodification of trauma". I am praying for two people I know of who are transitioning - a four year old boy, and a young woman in her twenties whom I used to babysit. I am praying for the child that the adults in his life will wake up to reality - and for the young woman that she will be able to see the truth about how her health is deteriorating as a result of her transition.
I hope some of this panel can make a video specifically for teens considering it, or for parents who are looking for any way to get their teen to consider more deeply.
All of you here are great . You are strong and mature personalities, because truth requires a lot of strength and courage. The people who still dress up their transition are afraid to admit to themselves, "I've been fooled." Maturity also includes admitting uncomfortable truths. You are a role model for children. I wish you from the heart, all the best on your life and lots of love.
Thank you for sharing this panel of brave individuals who shed light on the reality of their experiences. May they continue to heal and feel whole as they help others do the same.
Let us push Benjamin to 100K in subscribers 👍💪👊
The MSM need to be held legally and financially accountable for their part in this crime against humanity.
This was a fantastic idea - having an in-person panel of thoughtful individuals who are deeply aware of the topic, inside and out.
Genspect 🙏
I am so sorry for all the pain and suffering you have to go through. At the same time, I am so thankful for you honesty and courage to talk about it and help and inform others. Please keep doing what you are doing!!! Thank you!!!
Lookie this great panel of guests! I see Ms. Helena, Richie and those whom I would like an update. Better get my ⛑on, The Kitty has many 🐈⬛head bonks to provide this day.
So much sense, Richie. Love and blessings to you all xx
A public relations firm with a working understanding about this issue should offer to represent them. I'd contribute to that crowdfunder.
Such brave, wise and articulate young people. Thank you for being willing to share your thoughts, feelings and stories. You are each so inspiring!
Dear Benjamin and all of the panelists, thank you so much for the openness, calmness, and humor! (Ritchie: “Listen to your Mum!”) I wish I’d known you as a troubled teen, myself.
Critical thinking and radical self-acceptance are indeed great skills to develop…along with physical activity. I wish you all the best on your fascinating journeys. You are helping people so, so much by putting yourselves out there!! (just be sure it’s on your terms only!)
Wow. I really respect the space Benjamin's able to create, in part, because of his calm and open demeanor. That way we can _really_ listen to what these people have to say. I was particularly impacted by the description of the callousness of those who politicise this whole affair. They apparently lose sight of individuals and only see group causes.
If you go through the backlog of his interveiws, they are delivered with grace, are unique and so humbling. He has a great way of creating space - are thoughtful, considered, even peaceful in spite of context.
He is a truly deft interviewer. Right up there with the best you can name frankly. It’s a shame the world is too cowardly for his talent to be recognised in the mainstream.
WOW! This is like the Wrestlemania of Detrans! :P Great to see.
WOOT WOOT
@@NinjaKittyBonks NIIN KIIT
That makes BaB Mean-Gene Oakerland!
Missed the conference so I’ve been waiting for this. Thank you.
Thank you to everyone that shared their story with us here today. I know it takes guts to come out and speak publically about all of this. Your voices are more important than you'll ever understand. Not just politically, but on a personal level for anyone that can relate to your experiences. Please take care of yourselves.
A big round of applause from me too! This was a very insightful discussion with such intellectual and intelligent young people. I am so glad they have all managed to move forward and embrace life as themselves. They’ve learned to accept themselves in their bodies even after the traumatic alterations that have been visited on them. The tragedy is that they weren’t able to do that before finding the Trans path.
I hope with all my heart that their stories and experiences will reach a multitude of young people and make them reconsider the path they are on. Whether the Trans train or any other self destructive course. Life throws enough shit at us without compounding it at such an early stage.
Parents need to raise children to love themselves and appreciate the hand they have been dealt.
I wish every one of these incredible young people the very best in life going forward and thanks to them for their participation in this panel. It was a privilege to listen.
I wish the interviewer would have asked "what can you tell parents? What would have dissuaded you?"
Bless you. We are all waking up in our own way and in our own time. Your story will help many people so please keep telling it.
You are not being used you are heroes for coming forward ❤️. Because of what you are doing you may save another person from this absolute malpractice