The trans teen trend: a case of social contagion?
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- Опубликовано: 20 дек 2022
- An increasing number of children, particularly teenage girls, are coming out as ‘trans’. There are those who argue that this increase in young people seeking to change their identity is simply demonstrative of the fact that we are living in a more open and tolerant society. They argue that stigma within the medical profession and in wider society had previously prevented trans individuals from accessing the help they needed, and that medical interventions simply enable children to embrace who they feel they really are on the inside.
On the other hand, increasing numbers of professionals hold deep concerns over this sharp rise. They point to the fact that large numbers of these patients are being affirmed down a medical pathway, often culminating in irreversible medication or surgery. They also argue that gender dysphoria is a mental-health condition, prone to social contagion (much like OCD or anorexia), and should be treated as such. Rather than pills or surgery, they argue that therapy, investigation and psychological help is the best course of action for the vast majority of patients. Indeed, the Cass Review, headed up by Dr Hilary Cass, argued that a ‘lack of consensus and open discussion about the nature of gender dysphoria’ had meant that there was a similar failing in an ‘appropriate clinical response’. As a result of the review, the NHS was forced to close the Tavistock Centre - the largest provider of transgender services in England - which had become a focus for criticism.
Whatever your views on the issue of transitioning, is there a bigger question as to why so many young people suddenly seem to want to change their identity? Has an increase in discussion about gender encouraged a faddish approach to trans ideology, or merely liberated children who previously felt trapped? Should we celebrate the fact that our children can be whoever they want to be? And perhaps more importantly, does enabling this freedom have to entail such drastic change?
Speakers
Jennie Bristow - senior lecturer in sociology, Canterbury Christ Church University; author, The Corona Generation: coming of age in a crisis and Growing up in Lockdown
James Esses - barrister; social commentator; co-founder, Thoughtful Therapists
Katy Jon Went - diversity and inclusion facilitator and educator, Human Library, Pick My Brain, GenderAgenda, Fifty Shades of Gender
Helen Joyce - director of advocacy, Sex Matters; author, TRANS: when ideology meets reality
Chair
Claire Fox - director, Academy of Ideas; independent peer, House of Lords; author, I STILL Find That Offensive!
This debate was filmed by WORLDwrite volunteers at the Battle of Ideas Festival 2022. Please subscribe to our RUclips Channel and consider hitting the THANKS button to help us film and edit further debates.
It’s absolutely a social contagion, and I’ll tell you why. If the current explosion of transgender people was due to recent social acceptance, you’d see people of all ages finally coming out trans. It’s not. It’s primarily people under 30. Not only people under 30, just mostly. It’s trauma, mental health, and social media. That combination is the key to why this is happening.
And chemicals like endocrine disrupters in the food , environment and products we use on our skin.
And an increase in middle aged/older men wanting to openly dress as women and access women's spaces such as locker rooms. They are more likely autogynephiles than trans, but call themselves trans.
Sure, 0.1% is an explosion
Perfect argument!
It's the same as DID or Autisum. Yes Autism is more common but then you have the people who "self diagnose " same with DID. DID is so uncommon it can take years and years to even convince the person with DID they have DID. There was a serial rapist who didn't believe he was the one doing it but he was wrongfully convicted. After a Dr noticed a notable change in his behavior as he was speaking with him they realized he was not him and so they tried schizophrenia treatment and it wasn't stopping his mental lapses. Then after 13 yrs he was finally diagnosed and treated for DID with success. Oh and that's working with him daily for 13 yrs.
"We don't treat anorexia with liposuction". A very good analogy.
No we just rename it intermittent fasting. LoL 😆
No, actually not at all.
It's in fact the only statement made by a member of the panel here that was silly and downright stupid.
Anorexics have no problem losing body fat perfectly by themselves - on the contrary, taking control, control of their food intake for that matter, is the central piont of that illness.
I'm very disappionted by that pooorly chosen "analogy".
Apart from that: Applause for this in-depth approach, and thanks for bluntly stating that there is no such phenomenon as being born in a healthy but "wrong" body.
Overcoming gender stereotypes is imperative!
@@kajetanberliner3094 The point is, surely, that we don't go along with the anorexic's delusion that they are in need of losing weight. I realise the "control" aspect is important too and psychology uses it as an explanation (it is not so simple eg seekers of holiness wishing to be closer to God can fast until very ill or dead, nothing to do with self image or "taking control" and nothing to do with looking in the mirror). I'm sure we all know someone who has died from anorexia and how we would have loved to see them eat a full meal, rather than encourage them to get thinner. It is a good analogy.
@@bernmahan1162 The truth is, that an anorexic person can never be happy, never be thin enough and has a repulsion for eating.... starvation is the inevitable result if this condition isn't overcome.
That's what makes it such a very bad comparison.
There are analogies that would work, like dysphorias in which an amputation is desired. When such a person is able to live as desired (ends up in a wheelchair), s/he is happy.
So, we could argue as to why we don't fulfill such wishes and accept that some people want to be disabled - and consequently help them acchieving that... maybe by using the narrative that they were born in the wrong (healthy) body...??
These cases are rare and therefore less known, but that can't be an excuse for a poor analogy!
I can imagine people turning the video off right at the point he makes that bad comparison. That's why I'm pointing it out.
The level of this stupidity is massiv ... how cant you see it ?
The weaponization of sucide baiting is so evil. That person should feel ashamed of their actions.
what do you mean by suicide baiting?
@@harrietboateng5239 they cant answer that question lol
My sister was anorexic and she starved herself to death. We did not affirm her illness and did our best to get her help.
I'm very sorry, that had to have been so frustrating to watch and feel so helpless. It's just like alcoholism or any other "disease" that is self induced. I hate to call it a disease but I don't know what else to call it. Again, I'm sorry for your loss, I can't imagine how hard that was.
@@Five0Five addiction is a real 'disease'. it's as equally self induced as every other disease like cancer, malaria, cjd, cpd, lyme disease etc
I knew one person with anorexia. The mind is very vulnerable. My generation didn’t see much of this in the 60’s.
@@ja6368 I never saw it in a black person before her. I seriously thought it was a white person’s disease. It is a slow moving devastating disease to everyone who comes in contact with it. I would not wish this on anyone.
@@ja6368it existed, but it was often unnamed. I saw a ‘diet’ from the other day from an old magazine and it was atrocious. Mostly coffee. Housewives for years have eaten tiny proportions to keep themselves thin. Karen Carpenter began battling her obsession with her weight in high school. It just wasn’t recognized for what it was until deaths like hers made headlines.
My daughter' best friend in middle school needed glasses. My daughter insisted she needed glasses. She said she couldn't see. My husband and i ended up taking her to 3 eye doctors that all said her eyes were fine. She finally asked me if she could get sunglasses and have clear lenses put in them because she felt more comfortable at school with glasses on. The whole thing passed after a few months but it was weird. We knew our daughter could see, But She wanted to need glasses like her friend.
Well entire populations of people have been convinced that if you eat a hamburger, you're going to cause an iceburg to melt. And billions were convinced that you had to shove something up your nose to determine whether or not you're sick, even though you feel completely fine. It's delusion.
I was 10 years old when my younger cousin went to an eye examination for the first time and I went along with him. I was the type of child who felt like I was invisible and people didn't see, care about or love me. I really wanted attention, I wanted to be seen and I wanted to feel important, special and loved. When I saw the attention my cousin got from the doctor, I decided that I should also say I couldn't see so I could also get the special treatment from the doctor. I pretended I couldn't see clearly so I could also have an eye test, but I passed the test anyway. My eyes were perfect so I didn't need glasses, but funnily enough, I actually ended up needing to wear glasses 2 or 3 years later because I genuinely couldn't see the writing on the board at school, especially if my teachers used orange markers. Now I hate wearing glasses and I avoid using them.
Another time, my older cousin had a burst appendix and she was rushed to the hospital. All my family were fussing about her and always going to the hospital and doing nice things for her. I understood this to mean that if something is physically wrong with you then you get love. affection, care and attention. Fast forward to my teen years, I watched a movie about anorexia with my mum and cousin and it hit me that I needed to become anorexic as that would surely give me all the attention I wanted just like the girl in the movie whose mum was worried sick about her, all the time. It was just supposed to be an innocent movie, but my mind was broken. I did actually become anorexic when I 17, but it was purely by accident. I thought I was a little fat and I decided to eat less in order to get a flat stomach like this celebrity whose body I always admired, especially her flat stomach. It only took 2 months before I was in the grips of anorexia and ended up living a life of being in and out of treatment for the next 10 years.
I feel that some of these kids who've been affected by the trans social contagion probably have a mind like I had at their age and they just want attention and to be seen. Others are just going along with the latest trend and others do have a genuine problem with gender dysphoria, body dysmorphia and a host of other related mental illnesses which require talking therapies, but unfortunately they do not get the necessary treatment to actually help them in the long term.
@@hils1015wait. Your eyes were perfect but you needed glasses? I’m sure this is just an oversight (no pun intended😂) on my part, what does this mean exactly?
@@dillonwalshpvd My eyesight was perfect at that time, I was only 10 years old, but when I was 12 or 13 I had to start wearing glasses because I couldn't see the writing on the board clearly. I think it was my maths teacher who suggested I get an eye test because she noticed I was always squinting trying to see the board and if she used orange or green board markers, I struggled a lot to see the words, especially the orange ones. She ended up only using black or blue markers.
I used to make tooth retainers out of paper clips., Same reasons
Another word for "social contagion" is "fashion", and yes, it has become *fashionable* to change sex -- especially if you've got a Tik Tok account.
Exactly. It’s a case of silly teenagers indulging in a dangerous fashion to get attention.
With dangerous parents backing and even encouraging this, or being completely lazy and not caring
I don't think it's become "fashionable" I just think the younger generation is looking at gender differently than previous generations.
@@YRTheyDoingThis Parents are often afraid that if they question their kids' expressions of their sexuality, they will lose custody. This actually has happened.
@@MelsRamblings its not just one or the other, its how many and to what degree
When you have a group of 3 or 4 friends that grow up together and then enter highschool and they decide they are trans that is absolutely a social contagion!
Something I noticed.. behind every young teen or preteen that thinks they are 'trans' you will ALWAYS find a wyte mother pushing them into it and, most notably, relishing the attention it brings them having a "trans child"
Yes see that time and time again!
@@user-io8bm6gz5zno. That’s not true. The contagion is being spread mostly by other kids and it isn’t one race more than another. It is pretty equally spread relative to population. Stop demonizing random women when we have data to back up where it really is coming from. Munchausen could play a part, but the social contagion is the reason it is spreading like it is.
transphobe 🤮
Or... maybe just maybe they became friends because they all had that side of them in common. You people are the most bad faith, willfully obtuse bigots in our society right now. YOU'RE it. You're worse (barely) than flat earthers. Don't be proud of that.
I didn’t hate my body, I just didn’t know how to react to the way boys and men reacted to my body so I covered my body up in baggy clothing
Im old enough to remember when this was a major fashion trend in the 90s when I was in middle and high school- not necessarily all girls, but a very large number of them (including myself), wore hugely oversized plaid shirts and baggy jeans, while still retaining feminine details like hairstyles and makeup etc. Looking back, this was a pretty brilliant way of coping with the discomfort of unwanted attention or self-discomfort with a changing body. It became a fashion trend, and a sort of contagion of its own to dress in what would have previously been considered a gender non-confirming style, and so instead of a being lured into a toxic culture of self-loathing and mutilation, we were able to use the grunge trend to our advantage as we transitioned through that awkward and challenging stage, feeling somewhat more comfortable and accepted and “normal.”
I’m sorry for your experiences, if it can make you feel better I would be a more respectful man to all modest women out there, have a great day.
@putnam-he2swmen creeping on women is not "men being men". Men are better than this, and you are a misogynist with no discipline if you think otherwise. Men are not slaves to their lust. Men can see a woman, feel attraction, and not show it. Men are adult people capable of emotional regulation.
@@veron2512when I dressed modestly, that is when I experienced the worst threat to my body. So you're not right about this. Modesty in women is a fetish. Dressing slutty is a protection mechanism. After I was raped, I dressed so modestly for so long, and it was the worst period in my life for unwelcome advances from strangers.
You have no idea what it's like to be a woman, and your stipulation of modesty is sexist and not founded on actual respect for women. If you can't treat a woman as a person when she is hot or naked, you are the problem. Grow a pair and be in control of yourself. What an embarrassing position to hold. Are you a man or not?
@putnam-he2swno . She didnt say she had issues with her body. She has issues with mens sexualisation of her body.
This is the first intelligent, enlightening, non-toxic discussion on the trans issues I've ever seen. I doubt this discussion would even be possible in the U.S., if it wasn't outright protested before it could happen. Even the audience were incredible. The free exchange of ideas with respect. I miss it.
My thoughts exactly! Very refreshing
there have been several others over the years and they are increasing which is promising
We’re encouraged by teachers in US schools to protest, from elementary school to university. Some don’t even show us the educational plan for that day in order to indoctrinate us. Like when it was the Hillary elections, we had to watch all her speeches and her with Obama and such that class and we didn’t do anything else.
My human rights are NOT up for debate.
@@shadetreader shut up
How exactly is calling someone a boy or a girl dehumanizing?
I know!!! You're saying they're a human.
exactly. Telling them they are another species would be dehumanizing.
anything they choose is dehumanizing and causes harm/death/the end of the world. It's a cult
Look at me , look at me ,I am non binary, look at me , LOOK AT ME !!!!
I asked the “why” to teenager I know and she said, “I don’t know. It just feels right.” I like that “Katie” said to ask them WHY. Don’t just accept and affirm.
you do realise the process of going through surgery is a very long process that involves professional medical assessments over time?
"It just feels right" isn't an actual answer. That means she doesn't know. So you keep asking why until she does. THAT is parenting. Teach mindfulness to your kids.
@@whirlwhind666 Not anymore, look at Chloe Cole, look at any detrans story and it's the same fast tracking, maybe 6 months on hormones before an appointment is made to cut their breasts off.
Yeah, i'm sure if you interviewed HItler about Jews he would have said the same. Feeling right isn't a fact. It's a feeling.
@@whirlwhind666 lol no it isn't. Keep lying and coping if it helps you sleep at night.
Myself, and so many other parents that I know are struggling with this among mostly their daughters, but I know a few who have sons. We didn't raise our children to believe gender is a spectrum, but there are elements that working parents just can't control. My daughter was being called he/him by her school; teachers, staff, for the entire last year without my knowledge.
I took her to a Psychiatrist, and a therapist, both of whom affirmed her male identity. Some younger adult members of our extended family call her he/him, trying to be supportive. My daughter has several female friends within her circle that also identify as trans, and they all call each other he/him.
With so many outside sources many of whom are respected adult members of society; Teachers, Doctors, Therapists, Family Members encouraging this, she thinks I'm that bad guy. That I don't know what is going on. That I disrespect her by not calling her he/him. That I am transphobic. This is making children not trust their parents. It's tearing families apart.
But no one will love her and want to protect her more than her mother. I try to remind her that these Teachers, Doctors etc., don't know her, love her, or will be there for her through the rest of life as I will.
I'm in exactly the same boat as you. The school did the same thing to my son the last Yr of school. Now I'm transphobic if I even try to start a conversation with my new daughter. It came out of nowhere and I don't know where to turn to for real help. 💔
I am so sorry your family is going through this. Hopefully the tide will turn re affirmation when the next iteration of the Cass report is published in 2023. Meantime, I can offer no advice except to say that you might find Transgender Trend helpful for support.
I'm in the same situation. And the more I try to help the worse I look in her eyes....I feel for you. All parents in this position.
Time to sue the schools. The indoctrination is real. There are kids who really feel this way and then there are kids who are following the norm/trend in a school setting. If parents don't support their children and their futures, who will? creepy school administrators and creepy teachers
Someday she will be thankful that you loved her enough to tell the truth. The so-called "supportive" people will be out of her life very soon and nowhere to be found should she face deep regrets.
The girl at 51:00 asks "ask them what they want"
That would be fine, but unfortunately in most cases the answer is; "a never ending supply of good endorphins from attention based on victimhood."
I've been in same sex relationships for half of my life, lived with trans people in the 90s & most of us feel that it's turned from
inclusion & fairness to constant demand to be at the forefront of all conversation.
This is not healthy, it's not honest, and the government aligns itself with it to secure more votes in an upcoming voter class of young people.
There is SO much disingenuous talk in media about it, redundant virtue posturing toward an agenda that it is now beyond the pale.
I thought being accepted, respected & treated fairly in society was the goal, but instead it's a never ending stream of focus on our sexuality.
💯
That kind of relates to the rise of the narcissist we have seem happening.
Agree
And very darkly is the backdrop of the trans humanist future. This issue, together with AI paint a very bleak picture of humanity's future. It does at least account for why gender confusion has become promoted and institutionalised. Because it fits into the broader plan. We need to keep interrupting.
"People want to be accepted, respected, and treated fairly in society". Yes, that's what the vast majority transgender people want.
This was a great conversation with such great speakers! Thank you for posting this! The last 15 mins are very critical to listen too
In my sons' school ( they are both 16), there were a lot of trans, non-binary etc in the past two years. Apparently, it is in decrease now in their year. They were mainly girls going through it and for some of them it was just a phase.
Hopefully they still have all their body parts and didn't have their puberty ruined by drugs.
Interesting that so many girls are now de-transitioning. I watched an interview with one young woman who said she now looks like a five foot tall,balding creepy man who cannot get a partner. It was heartbreaking. She is de-transitioning. Excellent discussion.
I'm gonna ride this Vagina Train to death do us part...and I've been hurt, mistreated by men AND by women, but not once did it occur to me to switch out my gender. My heart goes out to any and all suffering from this cognitive dissonance.
Would like to see your statistics on all those girls who are de-transitioning?
This video is full of statistics 🤷🏻♀️
@@aliciaarballo6388 the statistics were in this very video
@@aliciaarballo6388 90% of people desist after puberty and people transitioning has increased by 4400%. We wont know the true outcome for a few years
These girls are not coming out as trans they’re only saying that they’re trans-because it’s trendy
Yep, really trendy to be discriminated against and have openly bigoted conversations about where you can pee without ever being invited to the discussions.
@SuperKripke Your point fails with minimal thought. Cutting and anorexia are also terribly harmful but the contagion effects are clear there too and have been known for years, but girls still do those things too.
@@SuperKripke don't even bother, these people are so bigoted they don't care. they made the same arguments against gay people 20-30 years ago but they don't even recognize it's literally the same argument
@@mischr13 I feel you. Sadly a lot of people wiyhin the LGBTQ community are also joining the anti-trans bandwagon. A lot of these comments sections can be bubbles but it's still important to challenge their perspectives.
@@SuperKripke It's not an "anti-trans" bandwagon, it's an anti-nuttery bandwagon.
The whole "affirmation only" cult mob needs to be stopped.
Children need to stop being mutilated, men need to stop being allowed in women's sports, prisons, bathrooms etc.
The pronoun nazis need to be made to stop. Just leave people alone. This is a destructive fad that's gotten way out of hand.
I've never been a feminine girl. I grew up climbing trees, beating up little boys, digging holes in the dirt and thought of dolls more as something to pull the heads off of and throw on the roof. I felt quite awkward around most other girls growing up and to be fair, I still do. I work in a male dominated field of a male dominated career. That being said, I'm fine with my body and generally like myself for who I am. I could benefit from losing some weight, but that's an entirely different subject.
When I was a child and a teenager, I definitely felt out of place and felt like things probably would have been easier if I had been born a boy. I still felt that way in my early 20s, but it was some time in my mid-20s that I learned to accept myself and even love myself for who I am. That I am a woman, but I'm just not feminine. I'm bisexual and have always felt as attracted to girls as I am to boys although I don't understand other women enough to have ever been able to date one.
I've taken a bunch of those stupid tests in books and online that determine your "gender" and all of them always come back 97% or higher as a "straight male" which makes me laugh my ass off because I'm not a male and I don't have a problem with being female. I've even had people force me to play the guys side of the "battle of the sexes" card game because I don't know crap about make-up and fashion, but I know my way around a toolbox and how to fix cars so they didn't think it would be fair, and they were probably correct about that.
Had I been born in this younger generation, with so many people talking about this kind of stuff, there is a very good chance that someone would have talked me into thinking I was trans and I'd have never learned to love my body for what it is. That is a scary thing to think about and one of the biggest things I worry about when it comes to this generation. That they may never learn to love themselves for who they are if they are like me and just don't fit into that perfect box that society seems to put people in.
I'm certain there are people out there that truly have gender dysmorphia that could benefit from gender reassignment, but I also feel like this is becoming a trend and many of the children making this decision might regret it in the future if they turned out to be wrong.
As much as people push it as being life saving, I'd imagine if it doesn't actually help someone who was too young to actually understand what they were doing to themselves, it could result in more suicides in the long run because people still were not happy and now they can't change things back.
Very well said! I was just like you, hung around with my brothers, did what they did, chores etc, and hated staying in the house. A farm girl, loved hanging with guys, could talk easily with them...When I started dating I'd talk with my dates about what's under the hood of a car, I changed my date's tire (he couldn't) and now I'm an extatic mom of 3 grown, successful kids. I still crawl under the sink, change tires, and it feels so good to know such a wide range of things! My friends are jealous! lol
Who Cares?
You sound like my wife. She's taller than me (I am 5'10"), wears overalls and drives a truck. She is no less female for it.
I am an amateur mechanic and auto enthusiast, and I love that she knows her tools and can fetch one for me while I am under a car.
You are blessed to accept yourself "as is" without the need for labels or mutilation. 🙏
And there was nothing wrong with you back then either. Its fine to like all of those things and be a woman.
Ms. Fox handled that last tricky comment with the grace and finesse of a master. Bravo!
As a psychologist, this is a TEXTBOOK hive mind case scenario. It is literally driven by social media, and worshiped by low intellectuals. Since I have a taste for social chaos, it’s fascinating to see it unfold and evolve into children getting actual surgeries. It’s really sad that the parents allow this to happen. NO ONE in the mental health field thinks social media is for people under the age of 18, but no one has the empathy to do something.
You aren't a psychologist
@@oliviamaynard9372 And you aren't "trans".
@@ambientjohnny Yes I am. You still aren't a psychologist
@@oliviamaynard9372 Me, I'm not a psychologist nor have I claimed to be. I have people in my family who work in psychology though and know several others in the field, and everyone agrees that "trans" claims are mental health issues, and that it is ridiculous how people uncritically approach this issue.
@@ambientjohnny more made up stuff
I have a hard time with the term "gender non-conforming" - its implication is that all those stereotypes about gender (pink/blue, action figures/dolls, football/ballet, etc.) are actually true - otherwise "gender non-conforming" means nothing. If we truly were fine with boys dancing and girls being firemen, as I think most of us are, there'd be no need for the term. What I have found, however, is that today, when there is inarguably the least amount of such gender expectations placed on people than ever before in history, it is trans activists who write and speak as though we were in the 1940s in terms of gender role expectations, and that it was the fight against this oppression which convinced them they were trans. It is a sick irony, in my opinion, that in order to believe that a child may be trans because he or she doesn't comform to outmoded gender role expectations, you have to at least tacitly accept those expectations as valid.
No it doesn't mean they are true, just that there exists a stereotypical association of certain things to either sex, ie sexist stereotypes. Acknowledging stereotypes exist, which they obviously do, is NOT the same thing as validating them as true and legitimate.
@@ambientjohnny But if you are going to say that a young boy who likes playing with dolls must therefore be a trans girl (and from reading some of their writing, it seems many trans activists make these sorts of leaps from conduct/preference to trans-ness), you must accept it as fact that true boys aren't supposed to play with dolls. Otherwise, it's just a boy who likes to play with dolls. Which it is.
@@markpekrul4393 Yes the "trans" side claims these stereotypes are somehow true, "trans" ideology is sexist and perpetuates harmful sexist stereotypes and relies upon a sexist framework, it is nonsense. I thought you were criticising the concept of being gender non-conforming in general, that's how the post came across to me.
If someone goes against any of the stereotypes associated with their sex, like boys playing with dolls or wearing dresses, then I think saying they are gender non-conforming is perfectly valid, they are however of course not "trans" because they behave in non-stereotypically male ways. No one is "trans", it's incoherent sexist nonsense, so we probably agree.
Excellent point. That's because this is not about gender. It's about destroying the foundation of reality. We cannot remain sane without reference points. Gender is a reference point. Adults not finding children sexually arousing is a reference point. Soon Minor Attracted Persons will be a civil right. Puppy pride and virtual bestiality are now celebrated. When we are collectively at the snapping point, we will do anything to make it stop - including trying to believe all of it is fine or opt for assisted dying, which is also being celebrated.
Exactly. A huge conflation between gender stereotypes and actual gender. And ironically most trans people try to alter their appearance and behavior to meet certain stereotypes. There seems to be an obsession with the outer while saying gender is all about how you feel or identify
As an elder woman, brain intact, I want to understand. Many things in life and in particular, right now, about the why's behind the growth of the trans movement and all issues surrounding it, including the move to transhumanism which factors into this discussion. I have attended likely over 90 seminars or discussions or individual presentations on this subject. This panel is comprised of 5 of the finest most thoughtful, intelligent and caring of individuals who are helping me to understand and anyone who listens. More questions and answers have come up. I wish you could go to other countries and attend many forums to present what you have today because much is new or presented differently. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT, every one of you. AND to the fine audience. thank you all so much.
I really appreciate that there are still people who didn’t allow themselves to be bullied by activists. Our children NEED us to protect them from those who will groom them to spread their selfish agenda. Gender dysmorphia is an extremely obscure mental illness, and it’s actually anti trans to deny this! if your little boy likes pink and dancing, it is MUCH more likely he might be gay than trans, and even more likely that he isn’t either, and just likes pink and dancing!
Introducing gender confusion to a young child is irresponsible, selfish, and child abuse. If you give praise, attention, and popularity to a child in the room that is hearing voices what you will have at the end of the day is a room full of self diagnosed schizophrenic children. Im really glad older trans people are speaking out about this
The misery and maiming of these kids are just a growth for pharmaceutical companies.
What a warped view
@@BedboundME the truth is always hard to stomach. It’s a mental illness not a body ailment.
@@alffuergregor some people, perhaps yourself, want to argue homosexuality is a mental illness. Being blind to gender fluidity/ androgynous people or people who, despite their sexual organs and hormonal exposure are otherwise much more like the opposite sex in all manner of ways - physicality, voice, emotions , dress choice etc , is, in my view, like being colour blind, but this time wilfully.
@@BedboundME Sex is biology. Gender is language. No language means no gender but still male and female bodies. It does not matter how you feel it matters only what you are. In a female space you are a dude with a dick and you should not be there. As is well documented by the amount of sexual violence committed by trans.
@@BedboundME and homosexuality is a sexual preference to the same sex.
This was one of the best discussions of this topic I have seen anywhere.
Thank you.
Agree. This calibre of measured discussion is often so missing from public/online discourse.
With all the tension in the world today, never knowing what may be said or done that could create a firestorm of emotion, offense, and resentment, this video was such a breathe of fresh air and so very necessary!!!
Thank you for putting this rational and truly caring forum together, an extra thank you for sharing it!!! ❤
When I was 15 I was always on the internet and I discovered forums and sites like MySpace where issues such as self harm, anorexia, bulimia and suicide were always being discussed. I had always wanted to be dead since I was 4 years old. I wished I had never been born my entire childhood, I hated being alive, but I didn’t know much about suicide until I learnt of all the different ways you could kill yourself on these forums and I actually attempted suicide 3 times by overdosing at age 15. I planned that I would not be around to go to the next stage of my education because I was going to be dead and finally happy and free. Fortunately for me, I didn’t understand the sheer amount of pills it would take to kill myself. All the pills did was knock me out into a very deep sleep. I am very glad to be alive and breathing. Life is so wonderful. I had never heard of self harm until then and not too long after I started cutting myself and beating myself up. I only discussed what I was doing with the other girls on the forum because there was such a huge sense of community and belonging. It was such a big part of my life to the point I spent all day at school thinking of the next moment I would get to go online and talk to my internet friends mainly from the UK where I'm from and America. 2 years later, at age 17, I became anorexic and I was sick for the next 10 years in and out of treatment. The forums always glorified self harm, anorexia and bulimia and suicidal thoughts, ideas and plans. It was cool to be sick, disordered and to have issues. It was made out to be something very special & honourable to do. It was the in thing. They even taught you how to starve yourself, how to think like a disordered person, how to lie to everyone about your eating habits and how to hide food and make it look like you had eaten when you actually hadn't. I learnt so many terrible things on those forums and I loved every moment of it. I knew it was wrong in the sense that if my friends or family knew I was on those forums, they would not approve, but I really had no real or deep understanding that it was wrong because it was fuelling me to harm myself and fuelling me to encourage other people's children to also harm and possibly kill themselves.
We shared info about the best diet pills on the market and where to get them from. We also commented, complimented and encouraged each other to starve and get thinner. We posted pictures of the thinnest most sickest looking celebrities whom we obsessed over, like Amy Winehouse and Nicole Ritchie, and we almost worshipped them. We called them our thinspiration or thinspo and you would send your friend some thinspo to give them strength not to give up on their fast. We even planned and did fasts together and if you failed to fast for 3-10 days straight you had to report yourself, berate yourself and be berated by the others for being such a loser. You then had to punish yourself physically for being the loser that you were and for letting the group down. We planned strict fasts which involved no eating or drinking at all or partial fasts where you were allowed to only drink water, soup, broth or eat a stuck of gum, one slice of plain bread, half an apple, 4 peas/grapes or a plain biscuit/cookie. We even had prayers to anorexia and pet names for anorexia and bulimia like Ana, Mia and AnaMia. We were encouraged to share pictures of our bodies to show our "progress" in starving ourselves. Bones and a gap between your thighs were placed on a pedestal and were highly glorified. The thinner you were, the more popular you were and the more awesome you were. Everyone coveted being the thinnest and having bones popping out everywhere. It really put us in a weird frame of mind whereby we really hated having any fat on our bodies, yet we didn't actually hate ourselves before joining the forums. It was all learned behaviour.
I knew nothing about the dopamine effect people get from receiving likes on social media because there was no such thing as likes at the time, however, the affirmations and compliments for harming our bodies basically functioned as the likes in this day and age and it really gave you such a rush that you sought more and more of it through continual destruction of your body.
Another factor at the time was Emo music which was all the rage in my youth. Most of the kids on those forums, including myself, identified as emo because that was the in thing. A lot of girls said they were lesbians and not long after I too thought I was a lesbian. There is power in social media, power to implant ideas you never had in the first place and make you believe that these ideas are yours, are true and you should act on them. I know without a doubt that if trans was a thing on those forums, I would have also identified as such. At the time, not many kids had computers at home, smart phones or daily access to the internet like we most people do nowadays, so only a few people I personally knew were also living out the life they learnt from those forums.
The entire thing was delusional, but I think that the same thing is happening now except this time it's the trans train rather than the thinspiration, self harm and emo train.
Thank you for writing all that down. I worked in Mental Health in the 80s and self harm contagion was rife.
I have no words. I'm so grateful you made it out of that. I'm sorry you lost so many years to that illness. I give thanks that you are still with us today. Your story will help someone and probably has already.
Thank you for your comment. It was very powerful.
I love James, on the panel. The young lady who says, “Ask the kids.” The kids are just that, kids! And James is right, kids need boundaries. I grew up in a single parent home, and when my girlfriends and I got in trouble, my friends would be punished. I wouldn’t be, and it made me wonder, why? Did my mom not care? Kids crave boundaries! Boundaries make them feel loved, and protected.
I am a single parent and was the one that made sure my sons knew the boundaries. If they went over them they soon new about it.
Opinions of kids are also valid...
@@exdetransitionervalid does not always mean safe, well thought out, smart, wise, or careful.
Nowadays if you try to set boundaries with some of these rebellious children, they will threaten suicide and make accusations of abuse against you. We are between a rock and a hard spot.
1:26:55 - What a beautiful example of gaslighting under the guise of being a victim. I have all the compassion in the world for people who detest being in their own bodies. And at the same time the level of "shut up or you will make us kill ourselves" rhetoric was quite something to behold.
1:28:33 - A brilliant response to the person above. Hearing the message whilst not giving into guilt tripping and blaming. Wonderful.
Yes I agree very good.
That response was brilliant and the truth!
It doesn't surprise me that the silly person was American.
It’s just like when ex partners say don’t leave me or I’ll kill my self, it’s a manipulative tactic
And it’s people like that woman saying “I’m a man”, and trying to take others on a mental roller coaster ride (she sounds to still be unstable btw) that makes a complete mockery of the subject in the first place. Narcissism seems to play the largest roll in the minds of people like that, and it was an excellent reply to an absurd claim.
I always find the phrase "born in the wrong body" to be completely and utterly asinine. You cannot be born in the wrong body, it's your body, it just is.
That argument used to be used against the existence of gay people.
Quiet
@@JoanneGiangrande Lol, someone's triggered.
Thank you so so soooo much for this.. This was so helpful and in so many ways.. keep up the great work and I appreciate you all.
Imagine a society discussing whether it is ok for children to irreversibly mutilate themselves. I’m afraid I’m with the pessimistic woman, we have already fallen.
Is it correct to use the word "mutilate" for elective surgical procedures? Is the intention here just to demean trans people as "freakish" or "grotesque"?
@@SuperKripke I’m not a surgeon but did do a fair bit of it in my younger days as a newly qualified doctor. Yes- mutilation is an appropriate word. Depending on the dictionary “mutilate” means causing a violent and disfiguring injury or inflicting serious damage on someone. I’d say it meets the definition. I frankly don’t care what grown adults do to themselves. They can rip off entire limbs imho but to even contemplate allowing children to make this decision is wicked in the extreme. And in my clinical experience most such children have very odd parents who don’t know what it means to “parent”. Quite often it’s like people who are proud to announce their pet dog is vegetarian- guaranteed that isn’t the dog’s choice.
@@SuperKripke surgical attempt at approximation of the opposite sex also known by the highly inaccurate euphemism of 'transition' is an adverse outcome. Absolutely. Some may find it freakish and grotesque. You have no control over people's feelings and opinions. It's a tough pill to swallow for some.
@@tozmom615 it seems you have already established a profile of who a trans person is and their parent might be. It's as comical as abstracting black people out as criminals or Jews as misers that hoard gold.
Do reflect on why you use the word "mutilate". I feel you may have picked it up in watching videos like these but it is largely used to bring in the connotation of disfigurement or harm. It doesn't get used in the context of elective surgeries which are available to non-trans people. You wouldn't use the word when describing a surgery of a breast cancer survivor nor an amputee. You would not use it in the case of infant circumcision depsite it not being elective.
@@insidiousmischka There is no special surgery that trans people have that any one else can't have. You would not refer to a double mastectomy or an amputation surgery as "mutilating". The only reason you do so for trans people is to highlight their freakishness and demean them of their dignity.
I really appreciated this panel. My 15 year old identifies as male (told us 2 years ago), but is biologically female - It seems like there is a huge social component to it and an absolute shift in definitions (like that there is a difference between gender and sex) which I'm not sure how to get past. Our household has always made it clear that one doesn't need to conform to gender stereotypes, yet our gender non conforming child now thinks they are a different gender... I asked why teens aren't trying to push back against gender stereotypes and break them and was told that they are. Kinda floored me in how different we are seeing things. The teens think they are breaking stereotypes when they figure out their gender (rather than just let it match their sex), but I see them as reinforcing the stereotypes to make their self determinations. How do we get to a neutral place on this?
There isn't a neutral place to take when your 15 year old daughter is on a pathway to self-destruction. Wake up.
The only way is if more young butch lesbians and gender non conforming people would speak up. I do worry it's one of those things that even if what you're saying is the truth, they'd only possibly hear it from certain people they feel they can relate to more. The problem with that is the amount of butch lesbians who are comfortable expressing that and the negative reactions they could get is too few...
Funny how I am gender nonconforming. I never thought of myself as trans or non binary. I had to look up what non binary is, and I find myself more non gender conforming than most of them. The difference is that instead of changing my gender to conform to society, I just do what makes me comfortable. Growing up, it was about busting down stereotypes, and now its changing your body and identity to fit them. And I was born and identify as a straight female.
@@love-ip7sz cisgender butch lesbian or unfeminine cisgender woman (some straight women are tomboys and some trans women are lesbians), or feminine cis boy, or drag performer =/= trans. These are fundamentally different. One is identity, the other is presentation. I think the feminist movement really shoots itself in the foot if it tries to push the anti trans narrative, as it undermines the fact that men and women are not very different at all, and we should treat people like individuals regardless of how they identify. The idea that gender is in one's pants and not one's brain, really comes off sexist, a la Andrew Tate, frankly, but some "feminists" are pushing the same narrative that somehow we're so different that nobody could possibly identify as the opposite end of the socially constructed gender spectrum (nevermind that there's also a small portion of people who are nonbinary). At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you identify as much as how you treat others.
@OP, listen to your son, really listen, so you can understand where he's coming from. From LGBT friends of mine, what made a big difference for their relationship with their family (and mental health and general wellbeing) is whether their parents were supportive and understanding and took the time to talk to them, or doubted or undermined them (they pretty much all knew at least deep down by the time they were a teen, if they didn't have an inkling sooner). I understand that it's probably difficult if it's your own child (especially because of the possible safety repercussions), but I hope you look into transgender resources and read up about teenagers and identity on those websites. It's confusing if you haven't had any friends or close acquaintances who are trans, but RUclips can be a great resource for understanding it on an emotional and personal level, it's how I "got it" when learning.
Wow , this is a brilliant insight @upstatenymom2938!
I agree, I believed I was trans for 7 years from early adolescents to early twenties and it was the most confusing and toxic time of my life... I thought that what made me different to my birth gender made me trans which I now realise that is close minded
Girls and boys are all different and you should align yourself rather then try to change your body to match your personality.
(In my case at least , I understand that gender dysphoria is a mental health diagnosis that may only lend itself to transition in some cases but certainly not most.)
It started as a fad / fashion statement around 2015 and slowly as people realized the level of endless attention they get from it, whether it be praise or pity it seemed to become an addiction. The fact that all the trans young people have their trans-ness as their only identity and personality trait is very telling. Like they're not an artist who happens to be trans, they're a trans artist. They're not a teacher who happens to be trans, they're a trans teacher. It's very clear they don't want to just be equal and blend in with the rest of the world. Last point... Imagine if social media didn't exist. Would we be seeing the large numbers of teens and 20 somethings coming out as trans?
Good points, I think you are correct.
Absolutely not.
Brilliant!
Exactly. Didn't see these lot in the 60s did we? Because everyone was normal. Male were men, females were women. No one thought they were opposite to what they were perminantly born.
Thank you so much for this discussion and for your passion to keep calm, thoughtful discussions of difficult subjects like this one alive. It feels like in so many circles, no one wants to listen and then be willing to respect others, even if they don't agree with you. Well done and thanks again.
Right of the bat really impressed with James Esses. Simple terms, simple truths, very clearly stated.
I’d like to correct the statement that adult transitioners are happy with their choices, despite all manner of medical complications along the way. I can’t provide you with hard, genuine figures, but it seems that the majority of adults who make the choice to transition to the opposite “sex” find that their GRS did not fix their mental health issues. Furthermore, I believe that the most dangerous point for those adult transitioners (who find that surgery didn’t fix their problems) comes some years after medicalisation, and this is where the suicide rates increase drastically. Not only are they left with the same dysphoria they started off with, they are dissatisfied with the experimental surgeries they underwent (or even just long-term hormone therapy) not only for the aesthetics they’re left with, but from all the pain and suffering from botched treatment, still not being accepted for who/what they want to be, and finding out all the negative side-effects of what they allowed so-called “medical professionals” to do to them and paid them handsomely to do so. It seems that very few adults who have transitioned are truly happy with the outcome but it’s too late to change their minds by the time they’ve realised it 💔
I must add my deepest admiration for Buck and his ilk who don’t sugar-coat things and are realistic in their expectations and outcomes, mainly because they are truly transgendered individuals. And to those brave individuals who have learned the hard way that the process of trying to assume the form and identity of the opposite sex is not an idealised stereotype, that idealised identity isn’t what they thought it would be, and then there are serious medical procedures and the likely (not possible) complications that come with it, aside from all the physical pain. They have tried to speak out and have been metaphorically flayed for doing so, but the tide is turning. Courts across the world will soon be flooded with malpractice suits, and I hope it gets even more serious than that, especially for a certain female surgeon who delights in making sickeningly “happy” videos to post to the most vile, disgusting, easily accessed social media site on earth. The whole trans ideology nonsense has been an outright affront to just about every group of people on the planet. In the words of Joe Jackson, “And if there’s war between the sexes then there’ll be no people left.” (From the song Real Men 1982). Peace out all 🙏🏼❤️
It's after 10 years or so after the opposite sex approximation surgeries when suicide rates skyrocket.
Apparently peak suicidality amongst "trans" people is 10 years after transition - however people arrive at "trans" as an answer to severe distress I suspect that the trans identification is an expression of mental illness including anxiety, depression and dissorders of disassociation, as is self harming, self starvation, substance addiction etc but unlike these outcomes trans has been dressed up by bad actors (big pharma and medical services that gain financially, AGPs who include powerful white males who want validation if their kink, lib politicians and academics who enjoy the admiration of the trans lobby and seem willfully blinded by the rainbow and glitter brigade) and this has been sold into our organisations, political structures and government departments to the extent that it has taken hold.
It is a disgrace that teachers who are in no way qualified to support mental illness are actually creating this and teaching it to v vulnerable children who are easily brainwashed (whether the children like to think the are or not - teens like to think they know it all after all - we all know this as we have been teens)
@@helench6097 so well put 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Totally agree!
My only criticism to this event is why would they allow the audience to ask all these questions if they would not give the panel the proper time to answer them?
Quite possibly the best debate on the issue that I have found. It's rare to find someone to represent the other site, and even rarer for them to be so well rounded psychologically. Massive kudos to Katy for participating in this debate, I hope the consequences are not too overwhelming for her.
Thank you for your positive points and kind consideration.
I’m so encouraged that this discussion took place. I was interested in the comments of the lady who said she wasn’t anti-porn, but that Pornography is something that needs to be addressed in this ideology. I wonder why ALL women are not anti-porn? Why has it become ok in 2022 to sexually objectify and abuse women and not only in adult circles, but more devastatingly to an audience of children? Surely this is something that any sane person can agree is very disturbing and has a huge negative impact on the developing psychology of children. I can only imagine the distress and damage that online porn is wreaking on a whole generation. 🤬 Yet nobody wants to talk about it.
Agreed, no wonder so many young women want to opt out of womanhood. Porn ruins self esteem and real intimacy
1. Women watch porn
2. Trans has zero to do with porn
3. Women having sexual needs or wants isn’t sick it’s a part of nature
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs And you really think that contemporary straight porn - which goes in for the humiliation, rape, and battery of women in every conceivable form - reflects real women's "sexual needs or wants"? 😵That pretty much proves the point, I think.
its true that there is way too much porn of this disgusting variety, a fact which is disturbing. There is also porn that depicts loving, equal relationships. There's lots of lesbian porn too (not all of which is aimed at men). The woman I love sometimes suggests we watch some, and it can be awkward navigating around the filth. but, like youtube, you learn where to look
Porn isn’t going away. It just isn’t. How old is the Kama Sutra?
I noticed when I was at school in the 60’s. I got a kitten, guess what, in the end all the girls were wanting their parents to buy them a kitten, even those I knew didn’t like animals especially cats. Take from that what you will. It’s a low type of mass hysteria. Thank god that’s all I experienced, I don’t think I could have coped with all this ridiculous shit
Yeah. My 1 friend at my all-girls' school became a goth. Then our whole friendship circle were some shade of goth or emo, everyone into the same music. You want to fit in with your peers! And if you can express your tastes and fashion in a way that ticks off adults, all the better. What a shocker.
The strangest crazes sometimes arise among school kids, and especially girls. Here's a super weird one: when I was in Grade 5 - so we would have been about 10 or 11 years old - there was a short-lived craze among the girls in my class, and it may have extended to other classes too, to bring little plastic vials filled with a mixture of milk and water to school. I think now the vials must have been the kind that are used to store blood samples in labs, so I don't know where they were getting them: maybe drugstores sold them? Anyway, they would go around claiming that this mixture of milk and water was the most delicious thing ever, like it was this amazing elixir magically created just by combining those two ingredients, and that everyone just had to try it. Every day it seemed at least one new girl came to school with one of these vials. I thought it was all quite mad, and every time a girl on the playground asked me if I wanted some "milk and water", I would just shout, "No!" and get as far away from her as I could. Still have no idea what was going on there, or how it got started. I think probably once the teachers caught wind of it they put a stop to it, because I don't think it lasted for more than a few weeks.
@@KathyPrendergast-cu5ci That is incredibly strange... The weirdest thing I remember with a my girl friendship group was us picking our scabs, making them bleed, then scab, then pick the scab... Pretty disgusting. (And left scars on my legs lol what were we doing??) The ring leader girl with the influence over us was the most hard core, she actually used a compass needle to carve the initials of her celebrity crush into her arm... I'm surprised she wasn't a cutter, looking back. Thank God she wasn't, or she'd have probably had all of us doing it.
I remember back in maybe middle school (I'm 58) there was a "Tough Cool Girl" named Pinky Tuscadero on one or a few episodes of a sitcom...within a week there were a couple dozen girls at school all walking, talking, dressing, and acting exactly like her.
good observation and it explains the current vogue.
@@KathyPrendergast-cu5ci
It’s great to listen to a mature non hysterical discussion.
😂 do u know where that word comes from? Lol
One of the most fundamental and constructive discussions on the topic I' seen so far. Thanx!
I sought medical help around 18 over a decade ago, the diagnosis was “transsexualism” back then.
I’ve watched this blow up. Our support spaces were infiltrated by young people who’s experience didn’t match with the experience of the current group. It was treated like a lifestyle choice, something fun to do, over time they brought their Ideologies, I had bailed by this point, I lost my community over this trend. We cant talk about the medical and scientific potential causes and explanations or we are called “trans medicalists” and “truscum”.
The jargon has probably changed now, I haven’t engaged in support groups for a long time now.
So many people think of your group (old-school transsexuals who just wanted to live their lives in peace) when this topic comes up. They have no idea that it's a completely new group with a new aggressive ideology. I have explained this to people and they often look very confused. If you can keep speaking out please do, check out Miranda Yardley and Kristina Harrison who are both transsexuals who acknowledge that they're male, and support women's rights and have spoken up against trans ideology.
@@katec9893
Thanks for this, back in the day transsexualism wasn’t an Identity, it was a diagnosis. I don’t want a trans Identity, I’m a human, I’m me. I live the role of man, because that’s how I’m naturally inclined, whatever the reason for that is is still unclear, but what is clear is I am also female and accepting one’s biological sex is the first step to contentment for transsexuals IMO. Everything else is ultimately performative, but trying to fit yourself in to a box that goes against your nature is exhausting and that fatigue is what ultimately pushed me towards transition and allowed me to live a more liberated and authentic life.
@@RubberJunk1 It‘s true what Kate said, I‘m 42 and have no kids and was only made aware of this development because of Scotland and Hogwarts Legacy.
I had no idea what the ‚trans-community‘ has become…toxic cancel mob and endless victimhood combined with narcissism…that‘s not what I had in mind thinking of transsexuals
@Rubber J isn't transition "trying to fit yourself into a box"? Why can't people just live their natural bodies, whatever their personalities?
And I do believe the influx of young people into the trans community by social contagion came second. What came first, was trans adults reaching them on social media, grooming them. I think one of the early waves was on tumblr, when they decided not to restrict adult content nor set age limits.
@@perimele6
Transition is not limiting yourself to the box society pressures you to conform too.
People can choose not to alter their bodies medically. Altering sex characteristics isn’t unique to trans people. Almost all the medical options available to trans people were initially developed for non-trans people. Transition medically or not alleviates gender dysphoria.
It’s fine to fit in a box if you do, but if you don’t it can cause stress and fatigue, so not limiting yourself and expressing yourself freely relieves that tension.
I highly suggest not making changes you don’t want too just to fit a stereotype.
Back in the day I didn’t personally see grooming going on, we had small online forums and new people would join on their own accord.
Not going to say there aren’t weirdos online but to my knowledge teens have been known to pick up odd trends like otherkin and now mental disorders are apparently a trend. It’s not really a surprise to me that teens jumped on transsexualism and ran with it.
Yes, most definitely a social contagion.
Transhumanism. Advanced capitalism. There's a lot of money to be made medicalizing children for life and performing operations on them that will endlessly need corrections. Take the reality spectacle I am Jazz as an example
@@sofasrus8081 What is going on with that poor human being nowadays?
It’s actually mostly likely sexual assault
I work in a charity for teens around substance misuse al
All trans female to male had been sexually assaulted or raped
@@sofasrus8081 Sorry, but this is nonsense. As a staunch anti-capitalist, you can actually argue the opposite, that making people stick to specifric genders like male/female makes money. Just think of advertising that is specifically geared towards men and women. Women''s products, cost more, for example.
@@beaudenoir morbidly obese and still depressed and hinting at transition-regret.
Happy birthday Richie. I think you're saying that ploughing your own furrow in life will always be more challenging. I'm nearly 70 and still wondering about furrows but it's not about me...!
You are a brilliant personality and highly original character. You are making a huge amount of sense and insight out of your experiences...which make up your life. Hope you can just have fun and leave it all behind sometimes.
I guess a lot of us who enjoy your charm and humour are intrigued to see what happens as your life progresses. I think it will be significant and positive wherever you end up. Take care of yourself.
One of the best panel discussions on this subject I've seen so far, thank you...
Everything that Helen Joyce brought up are the things I talk about and try to have discussions with other people about but imediately get shut down by these gender extremists. As an immigrant who grew up in America, and as a woman who dealt with some dysphoria as a young child (due to abuse), and as someone who researches a lot about other cultures (including her own) and is fascinated by how humans in general interact, behave and adapt, I can see how obvious that what is happening around me is indeed a social contagion and BRAINWASHING. I’m still not entirely sure why it started in the US (maybe the lack of cultural identity and heritage has been replaced by this?) but this issue has spread in anglophone countries the most, but if you go anywhere else in the world, it’s not really an issue or a “contagion”. Children aren’t being indoctrinated in schools, and parents are not buying into it. Women and girls aren’t being told that they’re probably gender fluid or trans for liking sports and/or for having short hair… this is a unique issue in America and other English speaking countries, HOWEVER it is the US, Canada, Australia and Britain that are inserting NGOs into other nations (including my own) and are trying very hard to push this indoctrination and ideology. We may not have this issue in our schools, but it’s bad enough that the US is trying to push this onto my people and many others. I hope this is an issue that gets called out and is stopped in tracks soon. These NGOs are trying to give children hormone blockers, hormones and talks about gender ideology to children without a parent present.
Because it's like a religion. You must simply agree and believe or your evil
You ate completely agree, I am a mexican trans woman and I do know obviously that are other trans people in the country but not even one friend of mine is trans.
It's about liberalism. Not lack of cultural identity or heritage. Peak of individuality is what we're seeing.
@@elbis1964 agree to disagree. The alt left are anti culture. They view it as a threat to their ideology. I was literally raised by a psychopathic commie and every one of these other “commies” and “antifas” are all the same. They hear about a country like mine, and they view it as a threat. I know what’s at stake here. I was raised by these kind of people and their insane dogmas.
Thank you for your thoughtful writing. However, one of the speakers above in this panel, and other discussion groups I've watched, have confirmed there is deliberate indoctrination pushing children to see their gender is something they can choose, or whatever they want it to be. These ideas are being presented to them.
I find I am often confronted by others with the argument that gender is just a social construct. I try to respond that gender is a word we use in various ways. And from a linguistic standpoint, all vocabulary words are social constructs. However, we use words in an attempt to signify something that isn’t a word. And those somethings being signified may or may not be social constructs.
I remember during my adolescent years being confronted by others with another question, “Am I a ‘real’ man?” The question struck me as strange. I never felt any dysphoria at all. Nonetheless, I was keenly aware of the fact that I did not seem to fit in with the common expectations of what it means to be a man. I simply concluded that the common expectation was overly narrow and in ways quite wrong. Real men and real women exist in a statistical distribution that exceeds the overly narrow and often unrealistic common social expectations.
But one thing I always find baffling is how some of these people can argue that gender is just a social construct, but then they go on to argue that someone is actually the other social construct, and they expect me to affirm it or be called transphobic.
I suspect we will be apologising to Rachel Dolezal in 30 yrs. Now we have women in Hollywood, who have only ever had straight relationships, describing themselves as "queer". Even ten years ago that would be seen as so insulting. All it would take would be for an actor, musician or artist, of colour, to say "I am taking on the identity of a white male, to remove the power that identity has over me", and we would begin discussing trans-racialism. Then, a famous white lesbian could say "I identify as a Hispanic male, because that is an oppressed minority, but still an oppressive masculine identity, so it is empowering, while retaining my sense of minority stress". Then we'd'e be off to the races and everyone would be doing it.
It's telling that J Esses, H Joyce and J Bristow stuck to the topic at hand - whether the trend of "trans" amongst teens, particularly teen girls, is case of social contagion. But KJ Went talked mostly about themself and their own personal experience, which has nothing at all to do with being a teenage girl today or at any time in the past. Also, at least twice Went bragged about "going all the way" with Went's "transition" surgeries in what seemed to me a clear attempt to cause everyone else to think of and envision Went's genitals. A very blokey move. Finally, although Went seems like a nice enough person with some valuable to things to say, Went lost all credibility in my book when Went claimed to have an "intersex" condition that Went pointedly didn't name. I find trans-identified persons claim to have unnamed "intersex" conditions highly suspicious.
Agreed. I believe they think people will think of them as born half man half woman so they're more the sex they're not before even modifying themselves at all. Which is nonsense. But I hear it a lot. It doesn't sound more plausible that a man is a woman when he claims he's intersex and trans. It just sounds like he'll lie about anything.
Concur with all your observations.
He's a white middle aged heterosexual cluster b paraphiliac. With blinking neon signs.
Maybe Went isn't really a "nice enough person".
I noticed that as well. Went was really only talking about himself.
@@Karen-us3ls Most trans identified males are all about themselves, that's the reality and Went is no different to the others. Don't be fooled by the gaslighting and superficial charm and humour.
It's funny how it was the very last audience speaker that turned out to be the very reason that discussions like this have to happen.
Are you referring to the point made by johanna altmann: Token emotional manipulation moment at 1:27:00? If so, agreed.
@@robbiespence6504 Yes, it's all about "affirm or validate me otherwise you are responsible for my life". Always so below the belt with these messed up people.
@@richalderson6069 You can tell these people don't have a clue what dying means. If they knew, they wouldn't waste their lives on made up problems.
Agreed. And she is a perfect example of the need to treat this condition primarily as a mental illness.
the compelled hair length she mentioned. Nonsense. No-one cares about long or short hair for either sex.
This was the best discussion on the topic i have ever seen, this gives me hope for honest dialogue.
Yesterday I was wondering if there were summits and panels on this topic. Finally landed on one. Great one
Extraordinary talk with an amazing group of panelists! I don't know what the laws are in UK public schools, but I am a school teacher in California and have just been made aware of a law concerning K-12 schools that is profoundly disturbing and I am struggling with it (along with my school District recently mandating that I use "student preferred pronouns"). The policy is that when a student informs school officials that he/she is "trans" and announces a new name/ "preferred pronouns," we are forbidden to contact parents about it. Kids can do this not only without parent permission but without their knowledge. It is justified by saying that it may be "unsafe" for 'trans' kids to come out to parents/family (so the State needs to protect kids from parents in this situation). Not only should this concern all educators, but parents should be outraged by this and I absolutely don't see this happening.
Tax them
Teachers should seriously consider their own safety. Parents won’t care what some law says. Those that passed this grooming law won’t be there to protect teachers. There will eventually be a parent that reacts extremely negatively to this. They’re going to come looking for the one closest to their child. Just some food for thought. I think teachers need reminders these aren’t their children, they’re being paid to perform a job, which doesn’t include replacing parents or parental duties. This is very dangerous ground.
So the conversation should not be about parents being outraged by this mandate, but why the public school system is doing this in the first place? Have you ever asked that question? Have you ever asked the think tanks why they would feel there is a need to protect trans students, or is this another way to create, hmmm, anger? We do this all the time, you have your agenda, so instead of asking the questions we automatically go to the, what are they thinking narrative. Here’s another question for you, if parents are so concerned about this issue which seems to be at the forefront of our political spectrum, why aren’t parents having INFORMED discussions about this with public school districts?
Yes my mom is a kindergarten teacher and has been warned not to say "goodmorning boys and girls" anymore.... something she has said for over 35 years with no prior issue!!
@@doeeyes2 Changes are difficult. She needs to deal with it.
49:52 it's because what is being called "gender" is really just personality.
However, she is naive to think that vulnerable young people are not being "brainwashed" when they are indeed being actively told in schools and become convinced that they can change their sex or that their interests or fashion sense determines in any way what their bodies should look like or what their pronouns should be.
The staggering increase in young ppl, especially girls seeking medical transitions is evidence of this happening.
To feel validated means so much. To validate myself by watching this video- and hearing things that sound like reality when I feel I’ve been force fed nonsense and pretend for so long. Wow. I’m taking this quote with me, “I can listen but I cannot affirm.” Powerful.
Great video and great discussion. We should all respect one another.
Thank you SO MUCH for discussing this
Follow the money. Rich men can make money from the pain of confused, mixed up people. A trans patient is a patient for life and a commodity that people with money will not let go easily. The other underlying and creepy issue maybe autogynephilia. Why are their such a lot of big angry men at these rallies who obviously do not like women. This is taking away from the genuine LGB individual or the poor kids who are genuinely suffering from dysphoria.
Yeah, rich men make lots of money in the porn industry from exploiting and humiliating young women and their bodies so they profit either way
Not how autogynophilla works but ok what about non profit medical
Countries like the U.K. Canada France most of the western world we’re the money there and isn’t this an argument for better care as of it was cost effective then it could treat more
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs I can’t understand your argument… in the uk we have the NHS which is free at point of service, but the Pharmaceutical Corporations make millions of £s in profit, so not sure what you mean when you say “‘non profit medical”.
Absolutely this Jan 🫶🏻
@@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs thats not how socialized medicine works....its not "non profit"... big pharma is still getting paid. We just pay higher taxes, most of which goes to healthcare and big pharma. Also percription medication isnt free in Canada (althougn you might have some coverage thru ur employer)
I'm so happy to know that my two daughters 26 + 19 think this is all insane, I must have done something right, and my youngest daughter has always and still does love football, she loved climbing trees and getting muddy out the back, my older daughter loved dolls and prams and pink things but both of them are very feminine, both hetrosexual, not that I'd have cared either way. I feel sorry for parents who have kids who are easily led into this insanity.
And good for you, many people would take that as a sign of a "trans" kid.
I am a trans woman, I would dress as a girl when I was a child but my parents didn't push me to be anything and let me live my life.
I transitioned (thank God) until I was 29 because I couldn't keep living with dysphoria, however having manly or girly activities don't make you trans.
@@AdrictoTDT-Twitchmy mom talks all the time about how I would put bows and hair ties in my hair, wore her heels and played with my sister's dolls and Barbie toys. I was even upset that she had better toys than me, at times. Interestingly, I never thought I was gay or a girl and I grew up to be a burly man who likes man things. Served in the Marines because it interested me and everything.
It's very scary to me that if I'd have been born 14 years ago, I would be taking some drug that blocks puberty or worse, and may have eventually been conditioned to think that I should have had surgery done.
I'm sure that trans-ness is real and probably a lot more rare than we see today, but I'm glad that more people realize that than just me. Until I saw this video, I thought I was going crazy.
That's a very smug way of thinking. I did everything "right" with my daughter, and she still went through a time where she was Trans. She's now married to a man, and we haven't talked at length about what influenced her, but I'm 100% sure it was social media.
I must’ve seen a thousand comments like this now, and 95/100 times the example given is a tomboyish girl. And everyone is always happy to talk about how a tomboy should pursue what she wants. The comment is almost never something like “my boy turned out to be a girlish pansy so I let him do what he wants and he’s fine that way.” People hate effeminate boys and men, whether they’re gay or trans or whatever a hundred times more than anyone gives a shit about tomboys or butch lesbians or trans men.
People love saying how they let their daughter play football and ride dirt bikes. Nobody ever wants to admit or even consider letting their boys do makeup or other girly things.
Great job mama!
27:57 the point being made here is so profound, and although it’s the against debater making it I think it actually proves the social contagion part. All those bad things going up can be linked to social media and peer pressue in young people. Social media has been proven to be highly toxic and manipulating, and if you have this gender non conforming stuff constantly all over it it’s obviously going to confuse people even more. The only solution to this is in my opinion to make it more stringent to truly become a different gender. You should have to live as that identity for 2/3 years, have to get a doctor to back you up that you are genuinely trans, and we have to address this stuff happening in schools where they are too scared to challenge it all so instead just affirm new identities too. Additionally we need to ban sites like Tiktok and really regulate other social media sites too for this stuff to ensure people are getting facts and evidence and not just being brainwashed by ideological propaganda
Geez - I am scared to American Universities; God help my son starting in 2 weeks.I dread what stupidity he will learn.
the guy calling himself trans just looks like a bass player in a metal band. Idk what he thinks makes him different from a guy with long hair. ?? Im glad hes talking and whatnot. But what is it im supposed to see here?
Steve Harris is miles better looking.
run to the hills...... ! run for your lives.....!
@@massiveinmyunderpants yes he is a fox
If a rock band member was also an AGP, then you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. He’s creepy AF
And the American girl calling herself a man was strange.
She looked , dressed and sounded like the girl she is.
Never underestimate the impact of gullibility, stupidity and attention-seeking at any cost !!
You said it Austin. And attention seeking is the main one.
You know we're talking about children right?
@@moneenerd children attention seek. thats what they do. its not a bad thing, its just what it is. it may be annoying, but once you realize that thats what it is, you can begin to understand them better.
@@noelle7786 for sure but would you call your children stupid? Kind of unfair.
@@moneenerd children can be particularly ‘stupid’. What’s even more ‘stupid’ & ‘unfair’ is the notion that legislation in some parts of the US enables a child to seek ‘gender-affirming’ irreversible life-changing medical treatment in the form of pubity blockers, without their parents even being informed. Unfortunately, there are many children that are ‘stupid’ enough to exercise this right without seeking any form of adult guidance or support, only to realise in the years ahead that they have made a particularly ‘stupid’ decision. Adults who choose to ignore this reality, because they don’t want to be seen to be ‘kind of unfair’ towards their children, demonstrate a truly remarkable lack of adult judgement and responsibility.
The Young American girl is something we hear often here in the United States as well. Unfortunately, we do not have open and respectful discussions here in the US, there is typical backlash, bullying and name-calling. I so appreciate, listening to this panel and the open and honest discussions.
Kids swept up in the ideological contagion is so well put. It was so rare before that I was wondering what this sudden rise in what looks like a dangerous FAD is. It is up to the adults to help the child be happy in their own body ... not play into the fantasy; above all there should not be medications given nor operations carried out before adulthood. A child cannot possibly understand how permanent medical interventions will be and how they would quite possibly regret it one day.
THANK YOU! it is about damn time that a group of people of divergent views has had the courage and decency to submit to the responsibility and burden of conversation. it is a tragedy for us all that conversation and disagreement have become a cause for personal attack and harsh condemnation. i agnostically pray for more couragous conversation.
Absolutely, and THAT is what I call a “safe space”.
I really hope the tide is turning at last. The trans pushing of kids has been an absolute disgrace.
Absolutely fascinating and thank you. As a gen x’er this explosion of trans/binary/gender and everything in between really hurts my brain but if I dare to ask for an explanation or try to have a discussion to better understand it 😮 oh my goodness then I’m sorry I tried. I am definitely a women, I’ve had 3 children, I loved being a housewife/home-bird fluffing up the nest and mostly simply gush with pride as my children have grown up and out the nest to live the lives they have chosen for themselves, but as a child I climbed trees with the boys, played cowboys and Indians and wouldn’t be seen dead in a dress so it definitely terrifies me to think what would have happened had I been a child of today. Again thank you to the panel you were all clear with your individual areas and approach to the questions asked of you. 👏👏👏👏👏
If you're going to lose friends just by speaking???? THEY WEREN'T REALLY FRIENDS WERE THEY??? Sorry but that community has morphed into a DANGEROUS CULT!!!!
Weird how the color pink is now the official color of females….I’m a lady who doesn’t like pink at all. I like muted colors. I’m a girl. There is really no such thing in reality as transitioning to the opposite sex. The man sitting at the table looks and sounds like a man. The long hair is part of the costume, dressing up as a woman. Many real women have short hair. No one thinks they’re men, this guy looks silly.
An interesting article I read was on the difference between men and women in their propensity to commit violent crime. Obviously, it's no surprise that men are more likely to commit violent crimes than women. Men who claim to be women and want to be called a woman and want to transition to a woman ... SHOCKER ... they still have the same propensity to commit violent crime as biological men.
It is indeed curious how these people who oftener claim to be rebelling against gender normativity end up expressing the tribes gender stereo types of the gender they transitioned to. In this context it may be well to remember that some time ago blue was the colour for little girls and.pink was for boys.
I'd consider myself a "punk" and dyed my hair pink a few months ago and all of a sudden ppl started asking me what my pronouns were.
there's only such thing if you dive fully into it, and the only people who do that are the few individuals who are transsexual and who actually experience gender dysphoria. it is a thing, but its not common at all.
Peer group pressure is one of the most influential factors in teen culture, many teens want to rebel,challenging norms , what greater rebellion than changing your sex ? Most Teens also don't think through issues logically, they are often driven by emotions and trends and are driven to take risks. Also this issue is constantly in the news and the possibility of transitioning is now available, all possible reasons , this is a complex issue with no single answer.
Great session. James Esses’ intro piece summarises the situation tremendously well.
I hope that somebody spoke to the last young lady that said the panel was spewing hate speech , I really hope that somebody showed her a lot of compassion, but I'm so proud of the panel saying they will not affirm her
I'd be terrifyed of saying anything to her. You say hello wrong and she'll accuse you of attempted murder.
@@RabbyRabbithole i know , she was beyond fragile , like she said she'd be dead now if she couldn't bind her chest, she'd be dead now if she couldn't get her haircut, ,, this lie of trans teen suicides is the only driving force of this dubious ideology, because the trans teen suicides ONLY occur AFTER transition not before transition, maybe this girl called Michael would die if she heard the truth , it would be too much for her frail little brain to comprehend
I remember at high school two female class mates who were best friends. They always hung out, would often wear the same outfits etc.... One of them had broken her arm and arrived at school with her arm in a sling. And you guessed it, the following day her friend had an arm in a sling as well.
That explains everything
I had a very close best friend in my teenage years. We are still friends today 60 years later. We were constantly in contact in those days but were very interested in boys. Both happily married now with children. But at the age of 8 to 12, I was a tomboy and if I had been exposed to the intense advertising and fashion of today, I could easily have been seduced into transitioning. Particularly since 'pashing' or hero-worshipping an older girl at school has always been fairly common That is what worries me today.
@@patriciastapleton2625 I think that part of the psychological assessment that people have to have re. Transitioning must include exploration of why..... Is it coming from within / intrinsic vs a child potentially heavily influenced and something that could be seen as a phase. This is the same for assisted suicide which is controversial which i also support. Assessment as to cause and Influences, Checks and balances etc.
@@patriciastapleton2625 I went to a London boys' school in the late 80s, early 90s. Whilst any hint of homosexuality was a massive social taboo within that environment, it didn't stop one having, very secret, and very private crushes.
If that would happen today, could one be convinced that the feelings were genuine, and not just a result of the pressure cooker of teenage hormones coupled with no permissible outlet? I think so.
@Three Thrushes I couldn't have put it better myself. There are degrees of everything in nature and an individual must be given ample time to mature into adulthood. Any medical interference with this is wrong. Teenagers are far too easily influenced regarding anything sexual one way or the other. Sometimes in spite of not wanting to be.
I feel bad for the last girl on the Q&A, you can hear in her voice she shakes as she says "im a man"
She wasnt listening to the presentation, she was there ready with her bias gradually growing angrier.
Indeed, I thought the exact same thing. The lack of confidence is palpable.
She is exactly the kind of young women the panel (or most of them) referred to as needing safe-guarding, and exactly the same kind of response they are used to getting: angry, guilt mongering and narcissistic.
she's completely fucked in the head if being called a girl and seeing her boobs can truly drive her to suicide. She's the living proof that this is a gigantic problem
Wow, this is so needed! So good to hear some people haven't gone crazy like so many now.
Katie's experience is very unique as she's VSD, and also a lot older than the current "trans" generation. Most children identifying as "trans" today and recently were/are not VSD.
So she's not technically transgender? That's an honest question, by the way. It's hard to get to grips with this stuff.
@@zeldagoblinShe's just kind of in a different category, in my opinion. It makes sense that some DSD/VSD ppl would want to choose their "gender." Doesn't make a lot of sense for people with clearly defined biological sex organs.
Such a rarity to come across a REAL discussion of gender, sex and non-conformity!
My main impressions afterwards are centered around the importance of boundaries. I am so deeply grateful to the responsible adults on the panel who so firmly set down what they were willing to entertain and what was not to be tolerated.
Several of the younger audience members came across as perfect examples of the effects of making all kinds of teenage issues political hot potatoes and the strong trend towards outright bullying in order to force people to walk on eggshells around people that are obviously not able to even take responsibility for themselves, never mind be treated like leaders. If everything is on the table and you are expected to be able to guilt any adult into any permission, children are left sailing on oceans in darkness without lighthouses or even maps, and that is just bad parenting!
In fairness, indoctrination at school, social media and online grooming have compelled many youth to come out as “trans”. The parents are in a difficult position, being told that their children will unalive themselves if they’re not allowed to transition.
The education system and medical profession are failing these children.
One thing the parents can and should do, is monitor what their children are doing online.
@@justmemimi7338less privacy for your kids isn't the answer. Better to build a relationship where they feel comfortable bringing these topics to you willingly.
Also, gender forms by like 2-3 years old in most kids. All you have to do is talk to your infants about their bits, show then your bits, point out how you and their daddy have different bits, ask them if they think it matters, and then tell them the ways in which it does. My 3.5 year old knows she is in a female body which can grow children and her brother is not.
This is not rocket science. Talk to your children like they are human people. Do not fear the trans identity. Respect it. Then, they will not internalize your fear as confusion and wind up going towards others when they inevitably have questions. Instead, they will feel safe coming to.
You don't have to believe a person truly is the opposite sex after transitioning to respect their choices and use the pronouns that match their presentation or at least the singular "they". Basic respect for an adult's life choices will ensure your kids know they can come to you with their own confusion, and you will genuinely help them with it. If you are afraid, instead they will know it will hurt you to bring it up, or be afraid of you themselves, and they'll go online or to peers instead.
Good parenting doesn't require an invasion of privacy. Kids need privacy. Be better than that.
I obsessively listen to this topic but this is one of the best ones iv ever listened to !! What an amazing panel , smart ppl & awesome questions from the audience , also I loved the chair & her no nonsense attitude , I especially loved her response to the guilt tripping at the end , children r being taught to behave this way w very little pushback & it’s time to say enough is enough
trans dude here ! thank you. This made me laugh. I love how you, and most people here, think of the world. It's nice to see that people think they're important enough to think that they know what people think and feel better than the people themselves.
@Blepz It's so discouraging seeing so many people willingly disregard the decades of research done showing that gender affirming care and validation is the most successful treatment for gender dysphoria and being shocked when they're called transphobic because their views are based on a made up fantasy.
Hearing some of the panelists talk about a child smiling, being happy, being affirmed, and then going "this is proof of the social contagion". Like whoa wait what? Being happy is a bad thing now?
@@betterbelle29 The made-up fantasy is that if every cell in your body proves you are male, you can be female and if every cell in your body proves you are female, you can be male.
@@betterbelle29 You dismissed everything the panel said about social contagion. What about the clusters of trans men only in certain schools or classrooms? What about most trans men having autism as a comorbidity?
@daisy1686 What about the recent research dating the last 2 years showing that there still isn't any increase in regret from gender affirming care despite this social contagion idea being nearly two whole decades old now. And that's only if you consider the social contagion speculators for trans people. People espoused this same nonsense when we stopped demonizing gay people during the Civil rights movement. Surprise surprise, decades later and still not everyone is magically gay.
First, the clusters could easily be explained by social acceptance, as a subset of self expression becomes more socially accepted, more people are going to come out. Similarly, women are far less likely to be violent towards their peers who are different, and because trans men are likely to have mostly friends who are women, it's not a stretch to say they'd feel safer coming out to them. There's no chance in hell I would've come out as a trans woman earlier in my life, I would've been mocked and beaten by the boys in my class if I had. This is a super common fear for nearly every trans woman I know. This social acceptance is the same reason there was a spike of gay people during the Civil rights movement. Same reason there was a large uptick of left handedness once we stopped demonizing people who were left handed. They provide no actual data for why this happens, they're completely speculating and spreading an idea that is objectively harmful to what we observe to be the massive majority of trans people who do not regret transitioning.
As for comorbidity, nobody knows why there's a high correlation between autism and GD/GI, but the very specific thing that they completely do not mention at all is that this comorbidity is NOT between autistic people and people who identify as trans. It's specifically between people who are diagnosed as autistic, and people who have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, which requires a relatively large panel of criteria to be met, which would not be explained by social contagion unless every single one of the people studied was just lying about how their symptoms when diagnosed. One of the most widely accepted hypotheses that I've seen by doctors is that autistic people are more likely to realize they're trans due to the fact that they completely reject most social standards by virtue of being autistic. Therefore, they're more likely to seek treatment for it. You can't seek help for a problem you don't know exists. Again though, there's no known reason, that idea is purely a hypothesis, and from my understanding, that research is mostly being used to alert current practitioners that they should maybe consider having people with GD/GI tested for Autism, and similarly vice versa due to this high comorbidity. There's no research showing that autistic people are susceptible to being "convinced" that they're trans when they aren't. Purely speculation, and once again, spreading an idea to push back against what we currently understand as being the vast majority of trans people who do not regret transition despite this idea of social contagion being around for literal decades and being founded exclusively out of speculation.
My original comment implicitly addresses all their points anyway. Even as recently as last year, the currently used standard for gender affirming care has been shown to be incredibly successful and has rates of regret due to the realization that one isn't trans of less than one percent. That in itself shows that their speculation about social contagion is complete bogus. We should have been seeing a decrease in effectiveness and an increase in regret, but we haven't. A lot of research in fact has been showing increases in effectiveness and reductions in regret, especially in regards to gender affirming surgeries. Of course, likely due to advances in medical technology. But this panel of course very conveniently ignores that.
Thank you, panel. There's a lot for me to think about in your contributions here.
1:26:36 perfect example of the teenage mentality that is driving this problem. You can be 100% certain and still be wrong, ESPECIALLY when you're a teenager, desperate for social belonging (we all need social belonging, but w/ the hormones of puberty & a high social contact setting like high-school, teenagers are particularly needy for it). Surgically altering your body is the ultimate act of commitment to your cause & membership to the LGBTQ+ community. In a social climate where transness is such a hot topic, being trans puts you at the pinnacle of people who can talk about this topic.
She may be certain about "I'd be dead" but not because she needed the transition, but because she needed the belonging. Even here she's focusing on pronouns and policing speech over the actual issues, like the fact that teenagers go through all kinds of phases in their search for acceptance, which makes them so susceptible to any group-think that's directed at those that feel uncomfortable in their own bodies & their social environment (which applies to most teens).
Nobody's seriously stopping women from cutting their hair or acting masculine. Nobody's stopping parents from buying toys marketed to boys for their girls or the other way around. Where has all the feminist progress towards breaking down gender roles gone? It's like these kids have completely missed the point and think they are a man because they like to wear shirts & ties and don't identify with a cliché of womanhood. It's regressive.
Thank you so much for this. I agree with other commenters, this is the most intelligent and respectful conversation I've seen on this issue. I also agree that in the US there is no way this would ever even be allowed, which is so shameful to admit, but that is an accurate assessment of where we are as a society
I appreciate the fact that Katy participated in this discussion so freely. Obviously Katy would disagree on some points with most of the panelists, but everyone behaved decently.
The last audience speaker , Michael, said he would have killed himself if he couldn’t bind his breasts and get testosterone. Folks are being told this, and indeed it may be true in some few cases. But I think most people can wait until adulthood for medical and surgical interventions, if they still want those interventions.
All the evidence suggests that this suicide claim is not true. What these girls may have (as the evidence starts building) is evidently low self esteem, a fear of being sexualised (possibly triggered by the porn satuated world they now find themselves possibly sexual assault), some have co morbid conditions such as PCOS, anorexia, autism, lots of researchers and commenators are now saying that for many it's another form of self harm like cutting or anorexia. I've heard some therapists say dysphoria in girls is just a different form of dysmorphia (anorexia/bulimia).
They can, it's really painful but they can I waited until I was 29 y/o and believe me I did everything to push it away, however that was the right thing to do. Thank God TikTok wasn't a thing at that time.
I don't regret my transition but transitioning isn't for people under 25 (in my opinion)
@@AdrictoTDT-Twitch I agree. There's a reason car insurance is higher for 18-25 year olds. Impulsiveness paired with freedom can be disastrous.
We need to hear more of what that young girl was saying towards the end. The more we can here them speak about what they are feeling and thinking the better we can get at identifying the triggers and indoctrinations.
From what I have gather through dealing with peers with new age gender dysphoria the cycle go as follows:
1. Young girls enters the beginning stages of puberty and her body is changing before her mind.
2. She realizes that even though she is beginning to look more like a girl, cognitive she is still in the pre-adolescence stage and now feels a dysphoria between what she looks like and how she feels.
3. Exacerbated by social media- She immediately wants this change to her body to stop so that it can align with her mind. She sees that other people online are going through something similar and instead of waiting to go through puberty, she wants to begin to take puberty blockers immediately.
a. It is important we realize that this child strongly believes that she is of the opposite sex and her cognition(which is not abnormal) reinforces this. In fact, if we did not only have one of two other genders to choose from(boy/girl) she will pick neither, because she still has not figured out what she likes or is (has not gone through puberty).
b. Indoctrination- Now we must consider why she is emotionally attached to this treatment style(puberty blocker + surgery + hormones). If you look at the young girl in the video, who has been turn into liberal activist, you can see that the language Is similar. Notice words such as "I will unalive myself, Adults do not understand, this is the only thing that makes me happy.
4. Why are this young girls contemplating suicide when they are just going through the natural cycles of puberty? It Is because now they have clinictized themselves. This process in no longer deemed natural to them. To them their bodies are being hijacked by biology. They have been told by their social media feeds that this disconnection is harmful to their wellbeing, and fed that if they are not true to themselves(their current cognitive state) then they will start to self harm.
6. These thoughts are put into these young girls heads, who naturally are going to be having body issues at this age, which is why they can easily fall deeper into depression and suicidal ideation. This physical depression will further enforce their gender dysphoria leading them to fixate on transitioning as a way to treat this problem.
a. Key thing to realize here is that she does not understand that puberty is natural, and that everyone goes through this and reaches the other side. The other sides is where you really find out who you are and what you like.
7. You may think that this is stupid but these young girls, are experiencing mental validation(cognitively being in a asexual stage), physical validation( body not fitting cognitive stage and feeling depressed and suicidal) and social validation(other people of similar age group and some adults are going through the same thing/telling them transition is the only way to stop these feelings)
8. What child of the right mind would not think that transitioning is the only way to save themselves. The pressure put on the child by themselves and society to believe this mindset is to much to overcome for a 8-18 year old child.
I say all this to say that we can look at these stages and find where to interrupt this cycle. I will start by educating 7-10-year-olds on what puberty is and what you feel during puberty. The parents who are opting out on this are setting their kids up to be manipulated in the future. In fact, this should be taught at home immediately if you have a young child. It is important that you shape this conversation with them now!
READ BELOW FOR HOW PROCESSES PROBABLY HAPPENS FOR CHILDREN WHO DO NOT COME OUT AS HOMOSEXUAL
I believe that the age before puberty we are all asexual. We can play socially with either boys or girls and play with just about any toy, object or even thing(Girls and boys playing with blocks, playing parents hair, boxes). What matters is what toy is put in front of us and if that object is stimulating to us (remember that kids with autism have a unique preferences for certain object and are often fixated on that object, therefore what is put in front of them are not always what they care to play with).
Parent will be putting toys that identity with the child biological sex in front of them. Normally, kids do not really care about the toy initially, but with time, realize that since they have played with toys that look a certain way and enjoyed playing with those toys they will have a preference to those type of toys. If I child does not have this preference, this does not necessarily mean that they are homosexual. In fact, it can just mean that that particular type of toy is not stimulating for them(autistic kids, which is why many of them think that they are homosexual because they do not follow the norms).
These children will grow up and continue to stay playing with girl/boy identifing toys/things or find their own niche things that they like. They will go through puberty, where their bodies began to change and they start noticing the differences between the opposite sexes. This will be uncomfortable and weird, however, since puberty was not diagnosed as a gender dysphoria instead as a "rite of passage", they go through this puberty and on the other side come into full women or manhood.
After puberty, not accounting for traumatic events that could have occurred during childhood (rape by same/opposite sex, neglect by either parent, early introduction to porn, molestation + more) If they do not have an attraction for the opposite sex then they very well could be an individual who is truly asexual or homosexual. However, if a child does not go through puberty, and they are stuck in the in between stage, then it is truly appalling to say that they can be trans. In fact, it is biologically impossible and incorrect to not allow a child to go through puberty before they transition. Puberty is an essential stage into knowing your true sexuality.
I, and many others, had no attraction to the opposite sex before puberty. I WAS A CHILD! There was no reason for me to have an attraction to the opposite sex because there was no reason for me to be having sex. I was not fully developed! I did not menstruate.
If you are a young girl or boy reading this and are going through puberty. I want you to know that you are not alone in the feelings you are having. Going through puberty is something that every living human in this world that is without genetic defects experiences. Every emotional, physical and spiritual change is normal. You body is preparing you for what it is made for, reproducing. You may now and later not want to reproduces, however, you will never know what your TRUE sexuality is unless you go through the stage of puberty. Let this stage happen, and see you you feel after. Do not compare your womanhood or manhood to people on social media! It is not real and many bodies are fabricated.
Great discussion, thank you for posting this!
I'm not exaggerating when I say that I was really encouraged to identify as lgbtq in school by some of my teachers and people in positions of power in school. I think you should really consider that. Like, I when I got in trouble in school, I was told by a counselor that she knew that I was a lesbian and that if I came out to my parents, I would get off because I am just troubled. I am neither a lesbian, nor did I present myself as one. I was even in ballet at the time, slim and girly (though sporty - leggings, tshirt, ponytail). But I got caught smoking with a girl friend of mine. She was told the same thing but denied being lesbian so she got arrested for being owner of the weed. I got indoor suspension. Then, a lesbian english teacher encouraged me to be lesbian and I'm going to explain how. What she did was that she got the prettiest girl in class to send a notice to the office, I noticed that she took note of everyone that looked at her walking to the door. I looked at the girl walking to the door and when I looked back at the teacher, she was looking straight at me, nodded and gave me a knowing smile. Then, she was really mean and scary to all the students but was really nice to me and to a few other students. Then, she invited me the the lgbtq club (which she was leader of). Again, I am in no way lgbtq. But I can see how some students can fall for that in order to feel special or be treated nice by someone in power. Or even to get out of trouble. Btw, the school authorities still told my parents that I was lesbian and did the same with my friend's parents. Even though it is not true. My friend's mother shortly after, took her own life. And to be clear, I am a biological straight girl.
WOW! I love reading presumably real life anecdotes and thank you for sharing as this is eye opening. I swear if you are a weak minded person, the wolves will come for you...I'm so happy that you were built to resist another's issues that they were trying to push on you.
That is outrageous. Your teacher and counsellor are really out of order. You should report them and the school authorities for this. Telling you that you are lesbian when you are not is just arrogant and damaging behaviour. They should not be messing with your head like that. Tell your parents that your school is pushing lgbt on you and tell them they pushed this label on you. That is harassment. Seriously they are so in the wrong to do this to kids. I am sorry. you had to go through that.
@@rl7012 This happened to me a while ago, when lgbtq was mostly lgb. Unfortunately, I think we really start caring about these experiences after we're adults and have developed mentally, like after 25. Kids are really resilient and put up with a lot of crap all the time. We as kids process abuse differently and we respect authority. I'm not sure those people still work there or how I would even address the issue. If they tried to push this on me (a girly girl) and on my friend who had a different boyfriend every week, imagine how they push this on kids that are tomboys and such. I just tell people to be vigilant of everything and everyone. I even remember that in Elementary school an older male staff member (only saw him that one time) told me that gender was not real and that boys could also be girls and when I argued with him and told him that a boy could not be a girl, he got really mad at me and I just shut up because he scared me.
@@jacquelynn2051 It is a very sad world we're currently living in. Always be vigilant and always protect innocent kids.
@@LemonDropYum Wow. You wrote that so well and so insightful, I am just shocked that things are that bad. Just to comment on some of the things you said:
_'We as kids process abuse differently and we respect authority'_
Exactly. And teachers and adults know the you process abuse differently and they know that kids respect authority. Even if some kids don't respect authority, they still believe that the authority knows best. And so it is a massive abuse when those in authority push this nonsense on vulnerable kids. Even the kids who don't think they are vulnerable, are actually vulnerable. It is outrageous that children have to endure this. It is so so so wrong and unnecessary.
_'If they tried to push this on me (a girly girl) and on my friend who had a different boyfriend every week, imagine how they push this on kids that are tomboys and such'_
Exactly. It is an abuse of power and authority.
'_I even remember that in Elementary school an older male staff member (only saw him that one time) told me that gender was not real and that boys could also be girls and when I argued with him and told him that a boy could not be a girl, he got really mad at me and I just shut up because he scared me.'_
That is insane behaviour from any adult, let alone a teacher. And you are 100% right, a boy cannot be a girl and vice versa. It is frankly disgusting that the authorities try and brainwash kids with this rubbish.
_' I just tell people to be vigilant of everything and everyone.'_
Good for you. Keep doing that. It is so important that kids know that authority does not know best on these matters. I am so glad there are young people like you who see this forced pushing of fake truths onto kids, for what it is.
So thank you so much for leaving your comments here on RUclips. Mainstream media is not reporting all this, so the more kids and people spread the word of what is really going on, the better. Keep speaking the truth as you are helping more people than you know. Thank you again.
50:00 this is an example of the problem. What she failed to disclose in her argument was, "I was not going to accept my mother's position on the issue until I had convinced her that my position was the correct one." That is the problem. There is zero debate. Their perspective is the only perspective, any other thought is the wrong thought.
In the 60s there was a lot of androgyny - young men with long hair, wearing kaftans, afghan coats, sporting jewellery - just like the young women. They knew that they were men though, as did young women know they were women. And acceptance of homosexuality without having to declare the need for a sex change. I think one of the issues is the readiness of surgeons to offer to change one's body, and the vast sums of money they can make to do this. This disgusting behaviour is rarely mentioned - another get rich quick scheme at the expense of young people.
Wow. That last statement by the chair. Bloody fantastic. I will never affirm either. You cannot change your sex ! That girl saying shes a man. She wanted pity to affirm her choice.
I don't think that word means what she thinks it means.
Tumblr taught me to be anorexic. I also at the time came across an in person companion with the same pathology. My parents had to send me to a program to recover for a semester from college. So thankful there was no permanent damage that I know of.
not even tumblr, society's diet culture in the west taught me to be anorexic, seemingly unintentionally. i almost died because of common advice. i think the internet and social media and people just believing random things they see and hear as scientific facts, which tend to be teenagers, is so dangerous for a maturing mind. so dangerous. i almost died.
I just learned about tumblr, and it made me thankful for my tetris addiction. I have been over here replaying the same puzzle game for 30 years while my friends got converted into all sorts of things through the kawaii porn website I didn't even know was a thing!
@@noelle7786diet culture is normal. It isn't western or American, yet only westerners were suffers after the 70s. It is 100% things similar to Tumblr that caused it, and even the term "diet culture" is a Tumblr term.
@@noelle7786 that can also be applied to “diet culture”. people believing random things about diet and health and causing them to basically destroy their health. Same thing with the fat acceptance movement
Thanks for this it's a much needed conversation particularly in the school environment.
This panel was absolutely brilliant, I wish there were more open discussions like this.
Many girls identify as boys in particular? Surprise. Surprise. I was a tomboy all my childhood and having a twin brother, associated with boys and boys' things. If someone asked me in 1990s if I wanted to be a boy - I would have said yes because I spent all my time with my twin brother and liked boys' stuff. Did that mean I was a boy as my identity? ABSOLUTELY NOT. That was my environment, interests, and best friend - twin brother. Girls' psychological development is very different from boys, and up to 90% of all girls display some sort of a tomboy behaviour when young. This is normal - this "psychological association" with boys when girls are young.
Holy crow, I love this whole entire room full of words and generous sharing!!! 💛💛💛💛 Wildly grateful for this panel and conversation.
I am sorry but saying you are assigned at birth really winds me up. So agree with Claire Fox saying that she has the right to say what she wants without being silenced and so glad the panel came back at the american person trying to make them feel guilty.
Not "assigned" at birth... OBSERVED at birth!
@@babybearsporridge kind of both for an admittedly rare few of us. Took medics 2 hours to make up their minds about my sex at birth. Observed and recorded sex is important. Assigned is fair language for some medical variations but I still hold (rarely for a trans person) that sex at birth is your biological sex and transition is bodily form but does not change sex, only gender and secondary sex characteristics. Sex is immutable, gender is expressible in many ways, bodies can be sculpted to be different. But it can be important to maintain the record of birth sex for medical care throughout life. A trans man can still have female ObGyn conditions and a trans woman can still have prostate cancer so birth sex remains important.
@@KatyJonWent you are clearly a man. Stay out of women's spaces. You frighten and alarm women and girls.
@@KatyJonWent Is that really you? how come you only have 36 subscribers? XD I would've thought you'd have a large following
I've been struggling with gender dysphoria since I was 4 and it wasn't something common, in fact I don't have one single trans friend that I've met in person and suddenly a whole group at a school are trans, what are the odds? I didn't know it was gender dysphoria. When I was able to kinda know what I had I didn't think of transitioning at 14 it's not that I didn't want to it's that I was really confused or to "know" that I was trans. Thank God TikTok nor social media had all these strong beliefs, I'm 29 and I'm transitioning but it's a decision I'm making in my adulthood with a lot of introspection. And I am glad I didn't do it when I was even younger and believe me, being trans isn't a nice not easy path. It hurts and no one with sanity would want to have gender dysphoria, it's not a trend even though is taken as one.
I would encourage you to find credible information from 1st-hand de-transitioners (not from those pretending -- the internet is full of fakes & pretenders). Contact famous publicly-known de-transitioners if you can (best to do so by email, never by social media - because it's more difficult to get fooled using text-only communications). Many legitimate de-transitioners are very willing to help someone considering this irreversible decision. You must know the very serious negatives (you already know the positives).
Also, your belief that "it's not a trend" isn't rooted in science or data. Strong indications are that this is affected by social contagion, since facts/evidence shows that in many schools up to 50% of students are "trans" at the same time -- yet then, oddly, the next year (or in a few years) the percentage greatly decreases (to 20% or less). Also odd is that the percentage of trans people in the U.S. is around 1% yet in schools it's always above 10% -- this is another red flag suggesting that strange forces (contagion, other factors) are at play. All of these anomalies in proportion/quantity are unnatural, and so these many things all strongly suggest it is driven by social contagion (which is not the same as a "trend" - your use of that word shows you're conflating things).
No sane person would attempt to “transition”, because it isn’t possible.
@@therightarmofthefreeworld4703 got it doctor, thanks for a diagnosis no one asked for
@@therightarmofthefreeworld4703 I've been living as a trans woman for over `14 years, since I was around 16 years old. Most people do not know passing me by. It is very possible. And absolutely nothing you can do about it. We've been here for a long time, you can find documentation of us in media even as far back as 1969 with Crystal Labeija. Lou Reed's song "Walk on the Wild Side" was about his relationship with Candy Darling, a transsexual who was part of Andy Warhol's entourage. We've been here. We will continue to be here. Whether we need to hide or be visible, we will be here. And you will do nothing about it. Surely you have much better things to do with your lives? or is it that empty to be you?
No such thing as transitioning. You're born male or female. You can't change that. I have OCD, and it convinces me my house will burn down if I don't count evenly in my head a few times, or touch something a few times. Just because my brain is confident and or convinced of that, doesn't mean it's true. Just because your brain thinks it's a girl or boy, doesn't mean you are that. Only males can be boys, and only females can be girls. We have these terms to understand who's male and who's female, especially when describing someone's age, without saying their age, and of course if we don't know the age. We can observe a female child and say they're a girl; and we can observe a male child and say they're a boy.
You're making a massive mistake transitioning. You will never be a women, or never be a man. I don't know if you're a male or female.
A person that is always smiling does not mean they are a happy person
So awesome to hear a debate such as this. I’m so concerned about what my grandchildren are being exposed to at school and elsewhere. It’s obvious to me that the potential profits to powerful corporations are a real threat to societies where these Corps decide to market their products.