As a gay man thank god for both of these wonderful women. Please be aware there is a lot of support for both of you. History will prove both of you right as lots of my gay friends feel at least 50% of would-be pushed towards trans ideology.
As a lesbian I so agree. It’s scary to think where I’d be today had I been raised in this climate. I come from a child abuse background, and really struggled with accepting myself as a lesbian.
I’m a straight man who was sexually abused and had a serious self harm phase in my teenage years and was quite emo/androgynous. 100% would have wanted to transition and wouldn’t have my beautiful daughter and would have ruined my life. I lived in Portland until very recently and this stuff is so horrifying.
It makes me feel really sad as a straight man who's two best male friends are gay. To think that they may have been ushered down the gender affirming route if we weren't as old as we are and been told that they arent in the right body is terrifying.
I've listened to hours and hours and hours of conversations and interviews on gender ideology. This is one of the best conversations I've heard on this topic.
Yeah, same. Lucky that I followed my nose to the licensed therapists sharing perspectives on this issue, who have a lot on the line to speak up about this. The unfiltered content from all the kinds of commentators is just too much to sift through and too diluted as it strays into peoples' other biases.
I must admit that, if I had known in advance how little Helen Joyce would be talking, I would probably have skipped this. I'm glad I didn't. You're very well spoken, even-tempered, and persuasive.
That's basically what Erin Friday did with her daughter. Her story is here on YT. She is very active now in Cali. There are those few people in life who really have bad "dysphoria", but that doesn't mean we should discount all the good therapy that has been going on for decades for these kids.
Prager University actually did a documentary about how to fix kids who call themselves trans. One man was taken to Mexico to be forced to have sex with someone by his father, and it ultimately cured him. You should see if that might help your daughter understand what her body parts are.
As a licensed clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience I cannot express my respect and gratitude for this young therapist’s courage. I am also highly appreciative of the host for the research that she has accomplished in this arena. The term conversion therapy has been used to in a blanket sense to condemn any form of psychological intervention that may question the current status quo and orthodoxy of the extreme progressives which dominate the field of psychology, social work and counseling in general. Forced conversion therapy of several decades ago of young adolescent gay males, often sought by desperate parents is simply not the same thing. Any ethical psychologist or psychotherapist will not buy into the affirmation model because it’s simply rails against the self exploration, questioning of one’s assumptive world, regulating one’s impulses and finally coming to grips with the effects that one’s actions and desires have not only on one’s self, but on the world around them and those that love them. I sincerely hope that this creates a groundswell. But I must warn you, free thinking mental health professionals are up against tremendous odds. State boards of licensure are increasingly restricting practice, prohibiting true psychotherapy which is not old style conversion therapy and will with these actions threaten the very careers of anyone that dares speak against it. I will retire from this profession in the next several years, leaving with many wonderful memories but a strong suspicion that the freedom to practice ethical counseling and psychotherapy will be strangled by the transgender ideology which permeates American and British culture at this juncture in time. I will never practice affirmation therapy and mercifully happen to be in a practice situation where I will not be called upon to lie to myself and to my patients. I cannot and will not ever reinforce delusion or mass psychosis. Yes state laws and ethical guidelines are of tremendous importance, but I answer to a much higher authority. Addendum: Jordan Peterson addresses the threats to the licenses of practitioners who dare challenge the orthodoxy even in a non-therapeutic role. This advice is solid, do not naïvely trust that state boards composed of your colleagues will fairly treat you. Seek out and secure legal counsel from attorneys who specialize in these matters.
Thank you for recognizing that the 'LGBTQ+" community is not one monolithic thing. I'm a gay man who fits into the side that the LGB needs to be separated from the TQ+ side of things. The TQ+ is dragging down the rest of us. I stopped going to Pride celebrations because they've turned into bizarre circuses that I don't recognize as representing me.
I would listen to Helen Joyce talk about anything, but it turns out she's a pretty good interviewer too! Fascinating to hear your story. I have a friend working as a therapist in the US and she's had to go through some "re-education" over her failure to affirm a trans identity immediately (because she was sure the girl was gay and her parents were just very homophobic.) It's crazy what has happened to you, her, and the whole profession.
The point about wasting time and energy on medical transition is so salient. This is why the messaging that 'if you feel gender dysphoria you must transition, or you are doomed to poor mental health' can be so counter productive. As a gender non conforming woman of an earlier generation my way of 'coping' was drawing strength from feminism and I threw myself into my studies and career in a male dominated field. People told me I couldn't do it because 'men and women's brains are wired differently'. Maybe my brain is wired differently because I'm neurodivergent and same sex attracted, but I'm still just as much of a woman as my straight peers. In my mind all I needed to be 'woman enough' was my biology. What I did behaviorally was up to me. If I dress in a feminine way I feel quite uncomfortable, like I am in drag! - does that mean I have gender dysphoria? In social settings I often end up on the side with the men when the groups naturally segregate - does that mean I'm a man in a woman's body? I get frustrated at work when people perceive me differently because of me sex. Is this dysphoria that people see me differently than i see myself? According to Gen Z these could be signs of gender dysphoria. To me I think I'm fabulous the way I am and I love butch women, we are part of the natural diversity of the human population. Life is harder for us because we are a minority and people will make judgements about us- but there is so much potential to live and rich and fulfilling life. I'm just old enough that I didn't encounter 'non binary' until I was 25 (this would have been 10 years ago). By that time I had already invested so much time and energy in proving I could do it 'as a woman' that I wasn't giving up that label for anything. Now that I'm in my 30ies and can look back at the turbulence of my teens and 20's I think I can safely say social and/or medical transition would have only made things worse for me. Ironically one woman I studied with did take some form of Trans identity towards the end of our studies and now all I see on her Facebook is activism about maternity care. Personally I think that's fantastic - because women like us also give birth the same way. that's why uniting feminism around biology just makes sense! I only got 'diagnosed' with conditions that explain my mental distress when I was in my 30ies and could afford to see a psychologist. TBH there is so much ambiguity and conflicting opinions in psychiatric diagnosis that I would be reluctant to go down any route of intense medical intervention. As I'm in the 'queer community' I see acquaintances latch onto the idea that medical transition is the key and I'm scared for them. I'm also in the position that if I say anything against the orthodoxy I'll be exiled from virtually everything in my small liberal city.
No words 🤭 that's a beautiful. As a gen-z i feel quite alone in my views, it was already annoying to be told i may end up with a man someday (because i'm femme presenting) even when i tell ppl i'm not bisexual. It took me years to understand i wasn't. It took me miserable moments of letting a dude "do his thing" while I wished to be somewhere else. I used to have internalised homophobia glued to my skin. Now i also have to deal with the other kind of "men"in my circle. I was told they were not so far from a masculine woman, why wouldn't i like them? They have the genitals i like...so I fancied one named Felix. I had to look at this naked body, of this woman with very short hair that was so very convinced she was a man, She was my type, she really was. My body had responded to her biology. But they adressed themselves as a man and wanted to be called a man, man man... I decided to clothe up and called it a day. Since that, I decided i wasn't going to date trans men even tho i treat them with respect. I was glad i did not have to call myself "bisexual" again haha . Felix was hot, but then she began teststerone and that's another story. I made peace with the fact I like masculine or femenine women because they are well, women. I'm a young homosexual woman with different views from my peers, i care for them and respect them but i'm careful with what I say, the may burn me if i say i also would not date a trans woman!
My cousin is butch, and did become trans for 2 or 3 years when she was 18, before realizing she was a lesbian. It’s scary, because I also would have latched onto being Trans. I had MH issues, was neurodivergent, and even though I’m very femme and married a man, I’m also attracted to women. I discovered this around 5th grade and was so terrified it meant I was gay that I developed a panic disorder. I didn’t know what bisexuality was until 18 or 19 when i went to Seattle. This Trans movement is just a horrifying new form of homophobia and mysogyny.
@@andreavalentinaperez2734 why do you care about them when they clearly care more about an ideology than they do about you? Trust me, it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who want you to live up to their ideals.
"All I needed to be 'woman enough' was my biology". Your thoughts are so beautifully articulated. May your clarity and transparency serve as an example to others who are struggling in the ideological muck.
I really appreciate the willingness of both of you to engage in this conversation. As an educator, I'm alarmed by the lack of critical thinking and reasoning which has gone into decisions being made about promoting medical experimentation on children- which is essentially what this issue is at it's end point. Our societies are medically, surgically and psychiatrically experimenting on children based on a sociological stance rather than a human physical and psychological development understanding that children are not, never have been and never will be just small adults.🙄😒
Yes. As Joyce points out in her book, this isn't even an experiment, as experiments have controls and subjects/data that are followed and recorded. It's just a shot in the dark driven by activists rather than empirical data.
To completely affirm a client’s perception of medical, psychological, and physical realities that are different from the way we treat every other type of client, something is wrong. A Counselor does not affirm the perceptions of a person with Anorexia, or it would lead to dire physical outcomes.
Do we not find though that people who receive gender affirming care generally have better outcomes? I'm asking because this is what I've heard when this argument is put forth and, if it is the case, then comparing gender dysphoria to anorexia in this way is fallacious, no?
@@yancowles Good point. It's not a perfect analogy. But the "affirm only" model is very problematic for gender dysphoria, particularly with adolescent girls. Therapists should be exploring the symptoms and considering other conditions (especially autism).
@@yancowles Some do, but some don't. That's why the "affirm only" method is dangerous, it ends up badly harming the people like Chloe Cole who never should've been given hormones and surgery in the beginning. She detransitioned, but she'll never get back what she lost to transition. I wanted to be a boy when I was a little girl, and like many of the girls being transitioned, I'm on the autism spectrum. But now, as an intact woman, I'm grateful I was never given hormones or surgery. Different kids need different help. What's beneficial for one child may be dangerous for another child.
@@yancowles There have been therapists working with these "gender confused" children for decades. One of the most experienced ones in Canada, Dr Zucker had been working with these children for 40 yrs. The extremist, "affirmation only" cult tried to ruin him. Why? Because he wouldn't cave to their bs. These are not good people pushing this garbage, and it's very unfortunate that many in the medical profession got taken over by this extremism, and greed. It's bled over into the culture at large where people think this is the only way to go because the media, and the monied political juggernaut has pushed it. Very, very tragic, since those who are detransitioners now, did not get the counseling they needed because of this insanity. There are several websites dealing with these issues. "Our Duty", "SEGM", "Do No Harm", etc.
Affirmative therapy = "inducing chronic illness and disability in children that would have otherwise been healthy." Yes, this is literally what it is. Brilliant interview, brilliant women.
So many therapists are avoiding working with this client group because of the threat of loss of licence it's sad for the adolescents caught up in gender ideology. Well done for your fight in this battle.
State boards are never a professional's friend, but this story is particularly distressing. She provided a valid challenge to current attitudes and procedures regarding gender identity disorder and sought to ensure her clients weren't on a path to making serious mistakes. Doing the right thing and exercising caution could have cost her livelihood. Damn politics!
My husband asked me why women aren't speaking out on this issue that affects women's right (amongst others). This is exactly why. I have so much respect for this courageous woman 💪
Women were the first to start criticizing this stuff from the beginning, Janice Raymond wrote her first critique of burgeoning gender ideology “The Transsexual Empire” back in 1979, which was followed by many other works by gender critical feminists.
I am also a licensed therapist, and found your talk inspiring. It is a "must listen" lecture for anyone interested in this topic. What I found the most surprising and enlightening was your comment about how much energy it takes for a person that needs to convince others of how they feel about themselves. It really shows how self-involved the person is in their own inner world, and does not allow them to make other self-growth developmental milestones.
Awesome conversation. I am an LMFT practicing in Texas. We recently passed a law making it illegal to use medical interventions with minors. Therapists can still treat minors with GD, but there is no guidance other than gender affirming care. hopefully many more brave therapists will band together to actually protect children.
I have been binging Helen (just ordered her book) and thinking how much I'd like her to present someone's particular story related to this issue. This discussion was just perfect!
Thank you for being willing to die on this hill. I believe you are supported in all of this. I've read Helen's book and am so grateful for all of you who are giving this very intelligent attention. I am a mother of a teen and have been tracking this closely in order to be able to have informed conversations with her and her friends' parents.
German therapist here. I fully endorse all that Stephanie is saying about the underlying aspects of this dynamic. I worked with gay people (LGB) and got to learn about one of their trans partners, who was on cross-sex hormones. There was a lot of distress, emotional violence and substance abuse in the relationship and it got worse, once the partner took testosterone. Only to be able to affirm this kind of dynamic is madness and I wouldn't do it. I have so much respect for Stephanie and Helen! Weiter so 😀
Mb😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊is a a 😊😊😊😊😊😮😮😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊and a bit out or not so much does it is 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊you 😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😅😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😅😊will be me 🔙 your you 💷 you ⁿ⁰want you I know it's just that I'm I'm ⚒ I want ⁰⁰😊you 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊you 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊ypyyppyypypypyypyyyfypypypppypyypyyypyyp0y000p0ypypp0pypyypyyfyppfyyyyypyppggyppppypypy0pyypyyypy000pyiypiyp00ppyypppyyypy00pyppdypyyppygppgpyyyppo000ppp0pppopyi0ppypyppopy0pyipypppydpppyyyfyypyppspppyygypppyyyypgyypypypypppypypypyypppyypyppgpppy0popyypyygyppppppyfpppyppppypyopypyyyypypppy0gpgipoppypypypypppypypypypypyyoygpp😅ypyyyypypyppyyiippypyppypgpypyyppyg0pypoppyyppfppppyp0pyppppyyupyppfpppfppyyyypyypyyyypgppypygyypppyypy0😅😮0pgpgyppggyppppyf0pyygpypppgpigpppygpyfpgpygpyypgpypgpfyp0ypypg0ppyypypyyyppgpppppppoppypppgyppppygpppyypgpgppfpygpppgppppypypgpppyfpppppgpippyyppo😅pyp⁰😅gdpyyogyppyppppppygyygpppgpgpppyppy0ppgpggupp0ppggyggyp0😅0000igpgppgppgpppygppippppppyppypypygppgippyppgpggypppupgpgpopggpgpggppgg0pygpyppypygppppgypypypp0gypyyyppgpiipgpppfopgp0ppygppyyppgypyppfpyyyyppypygppgpy0gyppyyyppppypyypypypgypppppyypgpppppyyypypyyyygpppfyypopppyyippyygippyypypppgypgpypypygygpypgfppyyppypypfppyppyypyypyppypppypuptppygypgpipgoypogyppppygppyypypypyyyppggppppgpygpyypygpgygygy00ppggpgupypyypgggpyppfpgpupygpgppyppp00000yppggpypgp0pygpppypgpypgpppppppyo000gpgppgypppggpgypyggy😅pgypppgypgpggppgypyppgpgupyg0gyogyygpyypgpppgyppyypygpygpypypgppgppygppggpppggpgspypp😅pgpupgpgyggpypggppgypppgpppygiyggpgpgspgpg0ypyypgppygugpggyppogpgy0pyypyfpypyyyppgpgppyoppypypypppy0pygpg0pypyyygyppygpg0gpypfpyppgpppuigppuu😅 😅😅😅😅 t00he family ⁰on ⁿ😮😮😅😮😮is ⁰it 😮py😅😅0😮and I ⁰the other half ⁰the 0⁰in a 😅😅
Wait, they gave a woman who was in a volatile environment, testosterone? Literally the hormone that drives aggression, recklessness etc ... I hope they both are okay now, and you're okay!
What an awesome talk. I totally agree with you and love how clearly you articulated the issues. As a Psychiatrist, I am shocked and dismayed at what is being done to children. Psychiatry already has enough to be ashamed and regretful for, from the past. We are shattering our credibility as a profession once again.
I’m here because I watched you on Peter Boghossian’s show, which is also where I first saw Helen! I loved this conversation- you clearly are an amazing therapist. While I am not a doctor, I too, see how this is capturing our youth and how there seems to be an effort from the top down to trans everyone questioning their identity with no safeguards. I’m afraid for the future, as there will be so many damaged people. You’re very compelling in your experience and the way you speak. Thank you ❤
I watched because i respect Helen Joyce ; Stephanie was stunning. This is the most sense i've heard made on this confusing and polarising subject. Thank you.
Being ‘emotionally 15´ and in that ‘time suck’ is so characteristic of someone living with trauma. I work with beautiful humans who fell into addiction because of their trauma, and the conversation here sounds to me like children with (obvious) ptsd or perhaps diagnosed personality disorder are a lot more likely to question their sexuality (‘gender’) given what the government is pushing into the curriculum. I definitely flag up the safeguarding aspect of this agenda in schools
Hi Stephanie! What a wonderful interview, I'm so pleased to have stumbled across it. I too work in mental health and have developed serious concerns regarding the gender identity issue and increasing medicalization of young people over the last few years. It really came to my attention when I realized just how differently the mental health and medical community treats this issue. It's like all the best practices and standards of care have gone completely out the window and we're not supposed to have questions, let alone concerns about it. I have to admit, when I first learned about the trans experience, I took what was shared with me at face value in an effort to be kind and respectful to others. And in my work I took in the affirmation oriented trainings because I believed the experts when they said this is what the research said was best. But I've come to realize this issue is waaaaay more complicated with psychological, philosophical, sociological, and legal implications for the client and for all of society (and women/girls in particular). I'm kind of at a loss as to how we went from 'there is a small group of people with a mental health condition called gender dysphoria who need our empathy and effective treatment' to 'Everyone has a gender identity! And the people who have a mismatch between their gender and their sexed body are transgender/non-binary! And all we can do to help them is hormones, surgeries, and pronouns!' How. Did. This. Happen??? Like seriously? And who ultimately stands to benefit from this cookie-cutter solution and these life long patients? I'm horrified to think of all the people who have been and will be negatively impacted by all this. The average person has no idea how experimental all this is. The clients, the families, the policymakers, there is so much pertinent information that's being left out of the conversation and the mental health/medical community is absolutely complicit in this.
Check the 11th hour blog by Jennifer bilek. She clearly outlines several millionaires and billionaires who created this decades ago and who enlisted unwitting feminists to push it. And yeh pharmaceutical companies benefit, plastic surgeons (only slightly more, as they have more patients and the cosmetic surgery options have increased) and gender therapists profit from it. It's kinda like covid created all these jobs, too, now there's gender therapists, gender instructors (who come to do presentations to your business in a hr fashion) and such.
33:00 This is exactly what I always tell people. The folks in this community are so hung up on their looks, it's like they never got past adolescence. They are the eternal adolescent. What are they going to do once they hit 40 and their bodies no matter what gender starts to wrinkle and rot? At some point it doesn't really matter any more.
In my opinion, they've tied these therapist's hands behind their backs, then said, "Reach out your hands & help them." And if you untie your hands to help, you'll be fired. They have been given an enormous task of trying to navigate some very dangerous & risky waters with a child & a family's well-being in a boat that's never been successfully sailed. I would NOT treat children in a clinical setting under those circumstances. Horrible, just horrible. Let's cut off your arms, then tell you to swim, then blame you for drowning.
There is conversion therapy though. The transing away the gay. Your story is so inspiring and thanks you for standing up for the sane lesbians and gays. So thankful to those like yourself that are brave enough to speak on this matter. Thank you
How wonderful it is in this crazy world to listen to two reasonable, logical, very Inteligent people discuss this issue so well. Perhaps there is some hope for the human race after all. I hope so. I am 63 years old, and I remember a wonderful childhood of so much good fun. My wish for every child is they have long and wonderful childhood. It makes adulthood much easier!
The irony of RUclips putting a 'fact-check' on this video that erroneously includes 'gender identity' in a definition of conversion therapy says all you need to know about the capture of tech companies by this ideology.
I am grateful for this conversation as it is so desperately needed to be heard. As a therapist myself, I resonate wholeheartedly with the thoughts and concerns that are so eloquently put forth. Affirming or denying a clients perception of themselves or the world is not a therapist's job. A good therapist offers a space of unconditional positive regard and a safe space of exploration that helps their client unpack the core issues that often underlie their perceptions and challenges. Good therapy is setting aside personal beliefs, religious or political. When legislation is put forth to prevent good therapy and replace it with activism, it undermines the legitimacy of the very institutions that are supposed to educate, regulate and enhance approaches to physical and mental wellbeing of the people they are meant to serve.
Kudos to you for being so brave and outspoken about these issues. Also thanks for pointing out how chronically damaging these young people's bodies might lead to a much higher rate in suicides. I've been suffering from severe musculoskeletal chronic pain and resulting disability since a young age and I wish these kids knew how precious their healthy bodies are and how truly miserable your life can be when you end up living the life of a 90 year old at 30 and how the last thing on your mind then is not fitting into alleged gender stereotypes. To risk early osteoporosis and other damage because of some insane agenda that exploits kids vulnerabilities and pushes them into altering their bodies without proper mental assessment/help is plain criminal. Thank you again for not going with the flow and for being a voice of reason in the middle of this madness.
Thank you for this conversation. I've mostly watched Helen as an interviewee, so it was nice to also see her be the Interviewer. You are so brave Stephanie for trusting in your own mind and what you know to be right and best for people. Both of you keep doing what you're doing!~ The world needs it.
You beautiful, brave women. Thank you so much!! I loved this interview, and wish I could get ALL my politicians to watch it. The EXACT same thing is in the course of happening here in Norway, too. With a completely unnecessary "anti gay conversion" bill being proposed, that's got "gender identity" just sort of hooked on to it, as a Trojan horse. But.. no one is even talking about that, or what it means! No one is saying anything about "gender identity", because most people are still really that asleep here!! It's all: "gay, gay gay! Gotta fight that homophobia! And if you say anything against this law..? You're just a homophobe!" It's scary how the TRAs here are just as sly and devious as the ones over there, and they follow the exact same tactics! (Explicitly outlined in the IGLYO, if I remember correctly?) But while you Brits are gradually waking up..? Most people here sincerely have NO clue at all! And it makes me feel SO darn crazy!! I think I shall post this interview, and my own comments, at a relevant website. In hopes that maybe some politician will take an interest, and listen. I feel like almost everyone just dismisses our side, without actually LISTENING to us! Because, mental filters and defenses telling them not to. And it is absolutely maddening! I mean, even most FEMINIST organizations here, for crying out loud? Even our biggest RADICAL feminist organization? Is like: "no, we don't support those awful TERFs. We are INCLUSIVE!! Our feminism is for EVERYONE!" ..Hence not actually for women, anymore. And one of our ONLY outspoken, openly GC feminists just got reported to the cops, for "misgendering" a man who identifies as a lesbian! And telling him he is NOT a fucking lesbian! Because apparently, saying that is a crime here now, because hate crime legislation.. WHAT?? We are SO captured, and people haven't got the FAINTEST fucking idea!! Just signed the WDI with my FULL name, and became a member, though... Because I'm finally at a point where I no longer give a fuck, if people figure out about my thought crime heresy! Fucking let them! I'm not going to be ashamed of standing up for what's actually right, here! Or the fact that I've bothered actually deeply RESEARCHING something that others have just ignored! Crazy how much you're demonized, just because you dare to share information that isn't popular, that challenges the mainstream "shut up and be nice" narrative. I totally get why people would get reported into oblivion if what they said was basically: "ya know, I just hate trans people! They are the worst! They are disgusting! They should just simply NOT exist!" There's REAL transphobia, that can he REALLY, truly harmful, for ya. But.. I haven't heard even a SINGLE gender critical person say that! So many of us are coming from a place of love and concern for our fellow humans, and just wanting to prevent REALLY bad and sinister things from happening to them! And yeah, sure, there is anger. But.. with how much harm has already been done, women's rights being eroded, and us being DELIBERATELY misrepresented and maligned, how could there possibly NOT be?? It is absolutely crazy, what happened to such an OBVIOUSLY kind, thoughtful and compassionate therapist! You should have gotten medals and accolades, for being an ESPECIALLY amazing, conscientious, and aware member of your profession! And instead, you get THIS stuff? WHAT??? **Chugs on coffee, because I'm NOT going to drink wine at this hour, although it's tempting.** Yay, good habits.
Stephanie, I am relistening to this now before I embark on my first semester of grad school to become a counsellor. As a woman who went through child abuse and struggled to accept myself as a lesbian in early adulthood, I too feel very protective of teens getting caught up in this. I admire you so much and I applaud you for speaking out about this. ❤ Thank you!
Thank you so much for this account of your experience as a therapist. I have been sitting a couple of classes away from my degree in psych for 6 years because I became so uninthralled with the whole “business” of psychology. Your progress is so very close to exactly what has been going on with me even though I am not an actual therapist. As a lesbian who worked closely with the tans community for trans rights for many years; I resisted my thoughts on what has been going on and assumed all news that had to do with detrans numbers or that kids could get transitioned before 18. Waking up has been painful. And one of my three adult daughters is considering breast removal just because she feels genderless.
1:46:00pro "affirmation" therapists and counsellors ARE doing that, by the criteria they are using for what makes someone a male or a female. Its in the written resources supplied to schools and universities.
Thank you, Stephanie. I very much enjoyed this podcast with Helen, whom I have agreeably listened to on several platforms. I am glad to know you too are out there practicing courageously, with wisdom. Much good luck to you going forward.
This interview is amazing! I am so happy there are ethical and excellent therapists like you out there. I love how you followed your intuition. It is quite a multi-layered and multi-faceted phenomenon. I find it incredible how this movement crept up on us and effectively gagged an entire society. It is child abuse. It is manipulative. It is destructive. It takes courage to speak out as a therapist. I 100% agree that kids have way too much control and power that is developmentally inappropriate. I agree that this ideology is inducing chronic disability. Definitely not going to age well. It is outrageous that it was allowed to get this far already. Absolutely shocking. We need to be creating more emotional resilience in our young. The world is a better place with people like you in it; ethical, courageous and with a conscience. I also love any interview with Helen Joyce in it and it's great to see her as an interviewer too.
"That was really powerful." I could not agree more. I was thinking the same thing. It boggles the mind that in 2023, this is the state of Healthcare for children, especially, in this time of vulnerable confusion.
Our current society is creating children who will have bone issues, brain health issues, possible cancers and complications from surgeries. Its barbaric. And doctors and therapists are being out in a situation of ruining their lives or ruining the lives of children
When the bankers made it out untouched out of 2008 I said " no way other professionals, like doctors, would get away with something like this". Boy was I wrong
Thought so.... again thanks! An amazing Convo with Helen Joyce... Passion for protection. The Pied Piper of gender ideology plays an attractive tune. My daughter hears it everyday. I'm grateful to know there are voices of compassionate reason to turn to when I need guidance as a father.
What an amazing chat! Happy to subscribe and share. I’m a psych student hoping to get a PhD in clinical neuropsychology, and watching this debate from the inside is equal parts thrilling and frightening. Thank you for treating this topic with the compassion and the rigor that it deserves. Good luck 👍
In my country (Australia), the state of Victoria has recently passed anti-"conversion therapy" laws that effectively mandate affirmative "care" for gender-questioning patients. It hasn't raised much media interest. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, and whether or not other states follow suit.
This was very informative and important. I wish it was required viewing for everyone. I also wish there were more therapists like you! Keep speaking up, I'm willing to die on this hill too.
Thank you for having the courage to talk about this. I feel the same… I would have been one of these kids too! I shaved my head as a young girl, cross-dressed… I’m SO glad I came of age 20+ years ago and not today. I want to do anything I can to help protect these girls from being genitally mutilated before they are old enough to make informed consent. And certainly no one should be driving a wedge between these kids and their parents.
Hi There! Amanda here, Stephanie’s new assistant. I’m helping her catch up on DMs & comments. She wanted me to get back to everyone who has reached out lately, and let you know that while she doesn’t have the bandwidth to track & respond to every message across all platforms, she did just set up a new community for people who want to go deeper or ask questions, at somekindoftheraist.locals.com. Members can ask questions & get answers in exclusive, private Q&A livestreams. Plus, engage with like-minded people, free of ads, bullies, & trolls. Stephanie might start offering backstage, early access to new podcast episodes while they’re being recorded, or other features suggested by members like you! If you’re a thoughtful therapist, concerned parent, politically homeless citizen, or simply a free-thinking individual that enjoys You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist podcast, we encourage you to join this community. You can join free for your first month with code GRANDFATHER, after your first month, your membership is only $8/mo. If you have a question for her next (and first!) private livestream, you can leave it as a comment right on this post: somekindoftherapist.locals.com/post/3654098/drop-you-questions-here-for-my-first-q-a-livestream If I’ve sent you this message in error, please forgive me. I’m not personally aware of the details of everyone she has interacted with online, just trying to help out as she has a lot of messages coming in right now. If you have any other questions for her but you don’t think Locals is the right place - for instance, if you want to request an interview with her - feel free to reach out to me directly at amacdon23@gmail.com and I will do my best to route your question. Thanks for reading!
You speak of the reduced dating pool for the trans kids but don’t mention the increased opportunity pool for sexual predators- disposable kids, who can’t get pregnant and are also disposable. Kind of real life “silencing of the lambs”. Keep up the good work. This is the best conversation I’ve heard on this topic. I can see Helen’s momma bear wheels turning.
Another gay guy who is in awe of your superb work. I respect any trans person who chooses this path for themselves. But medicating and socially transitioning kids who are all still in development is indeed gay conversion therapy. We know full well 90% of kids will grow out of gender dysphoria, and we full well know that most of the gender dysphoric kids have comorbidities. Thank you Stephanie, you are a hero.
I just discovered this podcast and some time ago I discovered Helen Joyce through different discussions in the internet-u are both great and this episode is too- but for me what I discovered what is helping me in my everyday life in Germany as a heterosexual white 35 y o woman is: that I dont feel free to ask questions , that my freedom of having an opinion on this issues is absolutely cut in our social climate because of the fact that I am what I am. I always felt guilty and had empathy because im so privileged and that made compliant. I feel regret to not follow my guts my instinct I felt wrong about thinking there cud be sth wrong going on. so what im trying to say its that these content creators show me that im not hateful or a bad person but much more than that - im not alone and its worth to talk about these topics because I love people and do not hate them at all- the men the woman the children with whatever mental health issues and also the gay community that is in a way dragged into a political problem that shud be never ever put on them and their rights. great episode I will watch more!!
The “warning” on this video is so sickening and unethical…conflating gay conversion therapy with talk therapy for gender questioning youth is unethical and extremely dangerous!
Im intrigued by the therapist’s insight into the narcissism of young people’s inward focus rather than an outward focus on crushes etc. I have two thoughts after hearing this. 1. The music that young people listen to seems to me devoid of depth, emotion, struggles, and uncertainty. My generation had music that was able to sing about these things and I think we felt less isolated in our confusion. As opposed to social media which by design quickly sends us down rabbit holes and exploits our tendency to confirmation bias. 2. Since we read less, kids miss out on literary use of inner thoughts expressed on paper. I’m an avid reader so that’s my bias lol but I feel that we miss out on exploring our own inner realities when we aren’t exposed to quality literature which models working through things that are tough. So this quick use of permanent « solutions » to what might very likely be a temporary issue seems to me absurd, irrational and history will not be kind to those who jumped in without any critical thought and robust consideration of all of the aspects of children beyond gender.
Great stuff... Really informative about the Oregon conversion therapy ban to now include change efforts around gender identity. Don't ask ...don't tell... Tick Tock will fill in as an affirming therapist.
Stephanie, I was so glad to have found this video. I found it because I'm obsessed with Helen Joyce right now. but you are a breath of fresh air in the time of insanity. I have a grandson who considers himself trans female, he is 19. His mother is at a loss as to how to help him so I have been doing a lot of research.
The way you talk about coming around to your viewpoint reminds me of when I came around to atheism. It's a slow process of reading, listening, thinking and testing against 'gut instinct' and external culture. It is difficult to go against the prevailing winds but the work or questioning and inquiry and NOT silencing the thoughts is critical for humans.
In listening to this wonderful interview, my negative opinion of humans in general is further emboldened: I’m just constantly amazed when listening to who appear to be reasonably intelligent with a good handle on common sense; are in the vast minority of the general population.
I've just listened to this for the second time, I'm sure I'll listen to it a third time - hugely informative! Why does "The Trevor Project" need to get their oar in? They may possibly be a good bunch of people, but this ridiculous warning discredits them hugely to the extent that I don't much care to find out.
Thank you so much this is such a good explanation of how we are going wrong with this rush to transgender and not allow intelligent public debate . Thank you !!
Such a useful conversation - but you saved the best till 1:57:00 mins NEVER heard this said as clearly as this before. THANK YOU. edited to update the time.
I totally get her comments on her case of a young women who didn’t feel safe being a women. If you look at the statistics of sexual assault against women this phenomenon is hardly surprising…..
Thankyou to you 2 Wonderful intelligent Ladies. I'm struggling at the moment regarding this IDEOLOGY, people just won't engage they think I'm being paranoid & it'll sort itself out but I've just watched the Allie Beth podcast with Genevieve Gluck & this has such sinister motives 😡
This conversation was so inspiring and eye-opening, it helped me see things through a new set of eyes, those of a brave and honest therapist, to whom my greatest thanks go for facing thins challenging, most times threatening situations with such conviction. Thanks to Helen Joyce as well, for her amazing work in bringing this issues to attention, hopefully we're going to be able to switch this thing off and go back to our normal being caring, empathetic and inclusive without the whole craze around this woke nonsense.
Majoring is in psychology is what I wanted to do, but because of what’s happening with the transition issue I won’t go near it as a profession! A lot of people are starting to lose respect for psych professionals. Remember the term “quacks”?!?
It's hard to believe that someone that's reasonable expressing something so absurdly reasonable can get someone investigated for malpractice, when the real ones that need to be investigated and lose their jobs are the ideologues that have gained power somehow sitting on the boards.
As a gay man thank god for both of these wonderful women. Please be aware there is a lot of support for both of you. History will prove both of you right as lots of my gay friends feel at least 50% of would-be pushed towards trans ideology.
😊 43:25 43:25
Hear hear!
As a lesbian I so agree. It’s scary to think where I’d be today had I been raised in this climate. I come from a child abuse background, and really struggled with accepting myself as a lesbian.
I’m a straight man who was sexually abused and had a serious self harm phase in my teenage years and was quite emo/androgynous. 100% would have wanted to transition and wouldn’t have my beautiful daughter and would have ruined my life. I lived in Portland until very recently and this stuff is so horrifying.
It makes me feel really sad as a straight man who's two best male friends are gay. To think that they may have been ushered down the gender affirming route if we weren't as old as we are and been told that they arent in the right body is terrifying.
I've listened to hours and hours and hours of conversations and interviews on gender ideology. This is one of the best conversations I've heard on this topic.
Agree.
I agree also ❤
You're taking the words right out of my mouth! 🤗
Yeah, same. Lucky that I followed my nose to the licensed therapists sharing perspectives on this issue, who have a lot on the line to speak up about this. The unfiltered content from all the kinds of commentators is just too much to sift through and too diluted as it strays into peoples' other biases.
Me also. And I’ve done the equivalent of three college courses during the past 18 months.
#SaveWomensSports
I must admit that, if I had known in advance how little Helen Joyce would be talking, I would probably have skipped this. I'm glad I didn't. You're very well spoken, even-tempered, and persuasive.
If my daughter told me she was a boy, I would tell her "ok, first you are going to do no social media for 6 months, then we'll talk about it"
Home school her if at all possible
I wish more parents took this approach!
👍👍
That's basically what Erin Friday did with her daughter. Her story is here on YT. She is very active now in Cali.
There are those few people in life who really have bad "dysphoria", but that doesn't mean we should discount all the good therapy that has been going on for decades for these kids.
Prager University actually did a documentary about how to fix kids who call themselves trans. One man was taken to Mexico to be forced to have sex with someone by his father, and it ultimately cured him. You should see if that might help your daughter understand what her body parts are.
As a licensed clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience I cannot express my respect and gratitude for this young therapist’s courage. I am also highly appreciative of the host for the research that she has accomplished in this arena. The term conversion therapy has been used to in a blanket sense to condemn any form of psychological intervention that may question the current status quo and orthodoxy of the extreme progressives which dominate the field of psychology, social work and counseling in general. Forced conversion therapy of several decades ago of young adolescent gay males, often sought by desperate parents is simply not the same thing. Any ethical psychologist or psychotherapist will not buy into the affirmation model because it’s simply rails against the self exploration, questioning of one’s assumptive world, regulating one’s impulses and finally coming to grips with the effects that one’s actions and desires have not only on one’s self, but on the world around them and those that love them. I sincerely hope that this creates a groundswell. But I must warn you, free thinking mental health professionals are up against tremendous odds. State boards of licensure are increasingly restricting practice, prohibiting true psychotherapy which is not old style conversion therapy and will with these actions threaten the very careers of anyone that dares speak against it. I will retire from this profession in the next several years, leaving with many wonderful memories but a strong suspicion that the freedom to practice ethical counseling and psychotherapy will be strangled by the transgender ideology which permeates American and British culture at this juncture in time. I will never practice affirmation therapy and mercifully happen to be in a practice situation where I will not be called upon to lie to myself and to my patients. I cannot and will not ever reinforce delusion or mass psychosis. Yes state laws and ethical guidelines are of tremendous importance, but I answer to a much higher authority.
Addendum: Jordan Peterson addresses the threats to the licenses of practitioners who dare challenge the orthodoxy even in a non-therapeutic role. This advice is solid, do not naïvely trust that state boards composed of your colleagues will fairly treat you. Seek out and secure legal counsel from attorneys who specialize in these matters.
Thank you for recognizing that the 'LGBTQ+" community is not one monolithic thing. I'm a gay man who fits into the side that the LGB needs to be separated from the TQ+ side of things. The TQ+ is dragging down the rest of us. I stopped going to Pride celebrations because they've turned into bizarre circuses that I don't recognize as representing me.
I would listen to Helen Joyce talk about anything, but it turns out she's a pretty good interviewer too! Fascinating to hear your story. I have a friend working as a therapist in the US and she's had to go through some "re-education" over her failure to affirm a trans identity immediately (because she was sure the girl was gay and her parents were just very homophobic.) It's crazy what has happened to you, her, and the whole profession.
That is so sickening to know how pressured therapists are being.
So, so wrong.
The point about wasting time and energy on medical transition is so salient. This is why the messaging that 'if you feel gender dysphoria you must transition, or you are doomed to poor mental health' can be so counter productive.
As a gender non conforming woman of an earlier generation my way of 'coping' was drawing strength from feminism and I threw myself into my studies and career in a male dominated field. People told me I couldn't do it because 'men and women's brains are wired differently'. Maybe my brain is wired differently because I'm neurodivergent and same sex attracted, but I'm still just as much of a woman as my straight peers. In my mind all I needed to be 'woman enough' was my biology. What I did behaviorally was up to me.
If I dress in a feminine way I feel quite uncomfortable, like I am in drag! - does that mean I have gender dysphoria? In social settings I often end up on the side with the men when the groups naturally segregate - does that mean I'm a man in a woman's body? I get frustrated at work when people perceive me differently because of me sex. Is this dysphoria that people see me differently than i see myself? According to Gen Z these could be signs of gender dysphoria. To me I think I'm fabulous the way I am and I love butch women, we are part of the natural diversity of the human population. Life is harder for us because we are a minority and people will make judgements about us- but there is so much potential to live and rich and fulfilling life.
I'm just old enough that I didn't encounter 'non binary' until I was 25 (this would have been 10 years ago). By that time I had already invested so much time and energy in proving I could do it 'as a woman' that I wasn't giving up that label for anything.
Now that I'm in my 30ies and can look back at the turbulence of my teens and 20's I think I can safely say social and/or medical transition would have only made things worse for me. Ironically one woman I studied with did take some form of Trans identity towards the end of our studies and now all I see on her Facebook is activism about maternity care. Personally I think that's fantastic - because women like us also give birth the same way. that's why uniting feminism around biology just makes sense!
I only got 'diagnosed' with conditions that explain my mental distress when I was in my 30ies and could afford to see a psychologist. TBH there is so much ambiguity and conflicting opinions in psychiatric diagnosis that I would be reluctant to go down any route of intense medical intervention.
As I'm in the 'queer community' I see acquaintances latch onto the idea that medical transition is the key and I'm scared for them. I'm also in the position that if I say anything against the orthodoxy I'll be exiled from virtually everything in my small liberal city.
Thanks lol
No words 🤭 that's a beautiful.
As a gen-z i feel quite alone in my views, it was already annoying to be told i may end up with a man someday (because i'm femme presenting) even when i tell ppl i'm not bisexual. It took me years to understand i wasn't. It took me miserable moments of letting a dude "do his thing" while I wished to be somewhere else. I used to have internalised homophobia glued to my skin.
Now i also have to deal with the other kind of "men"in my circle. I was told they were not so far from a masculine woman, why wouldn't i like them? They have the genitals i like...so I fancied one named Felix.
I had to look at this naked body, of this woman with very short hair that was so very convinced she was a man, She was my type, she really was. My body had responded to her biology. But they adressed themselves as a man and wanted to be called a man, man man...
I decided to clothe up and called it a day.
Since that, I decided i wasn't going to date trans men even tho i treat them with respect. I was glad i did not have to call myself "bisexual" again haha . Felix was hot, but then she began teststerone and that's another story.
I made peace with the fact I like masculine or femenine women because they are well, women. I'm a young homosexual woman with different views from my peers, i care for them and respect them but i'm careful with what I say, the may burn me if i say i also would not date a trans woman!
My cousin is butch, and did become trans for 2 or 3 years when she was 18, before realizing she was a lesbian. It’s scary, because I also would have latched onto being Trans. I had MH issues, was neurodivergent, and even though I’m very femme and married a man, I’m also attracted to women. I discovered this around 5th grade and was so terrified it meant I was gay that I developed a panic disorder.
I didn’t know what bisexuality was until 18 or 19 when i went to Seattle.
This Trans movement is just a horrifying new form of homophobia and mysogyny.
@@andreavalentinaperez2734 why do you care about them when they clearly care more about an ideology than they do about you? Trust me, it's better to be alone than surrounded by people who want you to live up to their ideals.
"All I needed to be 'woman enough' was my biology". Your thoughts are so beautifully articulated. May your clarity and transparency serve as an example to others who are struggling in the ideological muck.
I really appreciate the willingness of both of you to engage in this conversation. As an educator, I'm alarmed by the lack of critical thinking and reasoning which has gone into decisions being made about promoting medical experimentation on children- which is essentially what this issue is at it's end point. Our societies are medically, surgically and psychiatrically experimenting on children based on a sociological stance rather than a human physical and psychological development understanding that children are not, never have been and never will be just small adults.🙄😒
Yes. As Joyce points out in her book, this isn't even an experiment, as experiments have controls and subjects/data that are followed and recorded. It's just a shot in the dark driven by activists rather than empirical data.
To those advocating for this, there is no boundary between children and adults.
To completely affirm a client’s perception of medical, psychological, and physical realities that are different from the way we treat every other type of client, something is wrong. A Counselor does not affirm the perceptions of a person with Anorexia, or it would lead to dire physical outcomes.
Do we not find though that people who receive gender affirming care generally have better outcomes?
I'm asking because this is what I've heard when this argument is put forth and, if it is the case, then comparing gender dysphoria to anorexia in this way is fallacious, no?
@@yancowles Good point. It's not a perfect analogy. But the "affirm only" model is very problematic for gender dysphoria, particularly with adolescent girls. Therapists should be exploring the symptoms and considering other conditions (especially autism).
@@yancowles Some do, but some don't. That's why the "affirm only" method is dangerous, it ends up badly harming the people like Chloe Cole who never should've been given hormones and surgery in the beginning. She detransitioned, but she'll never get back what she lost to transition.
I wanted to be a boy when I was a little girl, and like many of the girls being transitioned, I'm on the autism spectrum. But now, as an intact woman, I'm grateful I was never given hormones or surgery.
Different kids need different help. What's beneficial for one child may be dangerous for another child.
@@yancowleswe don’t know. There is no conclusive evidence. All independent systematic reviews show low quality or insufficient evidence.
@@yancowles There have been therapists working with these "gender confused" children for decades. One of the most experienced ones in Canada, Dr Zucker had been working with these children for 40 yrs. The extremist, "affirmation only" cult tried to ruin him.
Why? Because he wouldn't cave to their bs.
These are not good people pushing this garbage, and it's very unfortunate that many in the medical profession got taken over by this extremism, and greed. It's bled over into the culture at large where people think this is the only way to go because the media, and the monied political juggernaut has pushed it.
Very, very tragic, since those who are detransitioners now, did not get the counseling they needed because of this insanity.
There are several websites dealing with these issues.
"Our Duty", "SEGM", "Do No Harm", etc.
Affirmative therapy = "inducing chronic illness and disability in children that would have otherwise been healthy." Yes, this is literally what it is.
Brilliant interview, brilliant women.
This is the reality of "gender affirming care".
So many therapists are avoiding working with this client group because of the threat of loss of licence it's sad for the adolescents caught up in gender ideology. Well done for your fight in this battle.
State boards are never a professional's friend, but this story is particularly distressing. She provided a valid challenge to current attitudes and procedures regarding gender identity disorder and sought to ensure her clients weren't on a path to making serious mistakes. Doing the right thing and exercising caution could have cost her livelihood. Damn politics!
My husband asked me why women aren't speaking out on this issue that affects women's right (amongst others). This is exactly why. I have so much respect for this courageous woman 💪
We do. We’ve been fighting in court over this since 2018
Women were the first to start criticizing this stuff from the beginning, Janice Raymond wrote her first critique of burgeoning gender ideology “The Transsexual Empire” back in 1979, which was followed by many other works by gender critical feminists.
I am also a licensed therapist, and found your talk inspiring. It is a "must listen" lecture for anyone interested in this topic. What I found the most surprising and enlightening was your comment about how much energy it takes for a person that needs to convince others of how they feel about themselves. It really shows how self-involved the person is in their own inner world, and does not allow them to make other self-growth developmental milestones.
Thank you for chiming in with support! Please consider joining my Locals community. Somekindoftherapist.locals.com
_"You can't trans the gay away."_ is going straight in my tool kit.
👍
Awesome conversation. I am an LMFT practicing in Texas. We recently passed a law making it illegal to use medical interventions with minors. Therapists can still treat minors with GD, but there is no guidance other than gender affirming care. hopefully many more brave therapists will band together to actually protect children.
I have been binging Helen (just ordered her book) and thinking how much I'd like her to present someone's particular story related to this issue. This discussion was just perfect!
"Distress needs to be normalized" - Thank you for this powerful sentence!
Thank you for being willing to die on this hill. I believe you are supported in all of this. I've read Helen's book and am so grateful for all of you who are giving this very intelligent attention. I am a mother of a teen and have been tracking this closely in order to be able to have informed conversations with her and her friends' parents.
German therapist here. I fully endorse all that Stephanie is saying about the underlying aspects of this dynamic. I worked with gay people (LGB) and got to learn about one of their trans partners, who was on cross-sex hormones. There was a lot of distress, emotional violence and substance abuse in the relationship and it got worse, once the partner took testosterone. Only to be able to affirm this kind of dynamic is madness and I wouldn't do it. I have so much respect for Stephanie and Helen! Weiter so 😀
Mb😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊is a a 😊😊😊😊😊😮😮😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊and a bit out or not so much does it is 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊you 😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😅😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😅😊will be me 🔙 your you 💷 you ⁿ⁰want you I know it's just that I'm I'm ⚒ I want ⁰⁰😊you 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😮😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊you 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊ypyyppyypypypyypyyyfypypypppypyypyyypyyp0y000p0ypypp0pypyypyyfyppfyyyyypyppggyppppypypy0pyypyyypy000pyiypiyp00ppyypppyyypy00pyppdypyyppygppgpyyyppo000ppp0pppopyi0ppypyppopy0pyipypppydpppyyyfyypyppspppyygypppyyyypgyypypypypppypypypyypppyypyppgpppy0popyypyygyppppppyfpppyppppypyopypyyyypypppy0gpgipoppypypypypppypypypypypyyoygpp😅ypyyyypypyppyyiippypyppypgpypyyppyg0pypoppyyppfppppyp0pyppppyyupyppfpppfppyyyypyypyyyypgppypygyypppyypy0😅😮0pgpgyppggyppppyf0pyygpypppgpigpppygpyfpgpygpyypgpypgpfyp0ypypg0ppyypypyyyppgpppppppoppypppgyppppygpppyypgpgppfpygpppgppppypypgpppyfpppppgpippyyppo😅pyp⁰😅gdpyyogyppyppppppygyygpppgpgpppyppy0ppgpggupp0ppggyggyp0😅0000igpgppgppgpppygppippppppyppypypygppgippyppgpggypppupgpgpopggpgpggppgg0pygpyppypygppppgypypypp0gypyyyppgpiipgpppfopgp0ppygppyyppgypyppfpyyyyppypygppgpy0gyppyyyppppypyypypypgypppppyypgpppppyyypypyyyygpppfyypopppyyippyygippyypypppgypgpypypygygpypgfppyyppypypfppyppyypyypyppypppypuptppygypgpipgoypogyppppygppyypypypyyyppggppppgpygpyypygpgygygy00ppggpgupypyypgggpyppfpgpupygpgppyppp00000yppggpypgp0pygpppypgpypgpppppppyo000gpgppgypppggpgypyggy😅pgypppgypgpggppgypyppgpgupyg0gyogyygpyypgpppgyppyypygpygpypypgppgppygppggpppggpgspypp😅pgpupgpgyggpypggppgypppgpppygiyggpgpgspgpg0ypyypgppygugpggyppogpgy0pyypyfpypyyyppgpgppyoppypypypppy0pygpg0pypyyygyppygpg0gpypfpyppgpppuigppuu😅 😅😅😅😅 t00he family ⁰on ⁿ😮😮😅😮😮is ⁰it 😮py😅😅0😮and I ⁰the other half ⁰the 0⁰in a 😅😅
Wait, they gave a woman who was in a volatile environment, testosterone? Literally the hormone that drives aggression, recklessness etc ... I hope they both are okay now, and you're okay!
What an incredible therapist. Her compassion for children and young people in distress is palpable. I learned a lot from this and will listen again.
Helen Joyce is an exceptionally good listener!
What an awesome talk. I totally agree with you and love how clearly you articulated the issues. As a Psychiatrist, I am shocked and dismayed at what is being done to children. Psychiatry already has enough to be ashamed and regretful for, from the past. We are shattering our credibility as a profession once again.
Thank you both. You are a beacons of light in a very dark and scary moment in human history 🙏
I’m here because I watched you on Peter Boghossian’s show, which is also where I first saw Helen! I loved this conversation- you clearly are an amazing therapist. While I am not a doctor, I too, see how this is capturing our youth and how there seems to be an effort from the top down to trans everyone questioning their identity with no safeguards. I’m afraid for the future, as there will be so many damaged people. You’re very compelling in your experience and the way you speak. Thank you ❤
This was a great conversation. As a medical professional I appreciate hearing what is going on in the therapy world
I watched because i respect Helen Joyce ; Stephanie was stunning. This is the most sense i've heard made on this confusing and polarising subject. Thank you.
Being ‘emotionally 15´ and in that ‘time suck’ is so characteristic of someone living with trauma. I work with beautiful humans who fell into addiction because of their trauma, and the conversation here sounds to me like children with (obvious) ptsd or perhaps diagnosed personality disorder are a lot more likely to question their sexuality (‘gender’) given what the government is pushing into the curriculum. I definitely flag up the safeguarding aspect of this agenda in schools
Hi Stephanie!
What a wonderful interview, I'm so pleased to have stumbled across it. I too work in mental health and have developed serious concerns regarding the gender identity issue and increasing medicalization of young people over the last few years. It really came to my attention when I realized just how differently the mental health and medical community treats this issue. It's like all the best practices and standards of care have gone completely out the window and we're not supposed to have questions, let alone concerns about it.
I have to admit, when I first learned about the trans experience, I took what was shared with me at face value in an effort to be kind and respectful to others. And in my work I took in the affirmation oriented trainings because I believed the experts when they said this is what the research said was best. But I've come to realize this issue is waaaaay more complicated with psychological, philosophical, sociological, and legal implications for the client and for all of society (and women/girls in particular). I'm kind of at a loss as to how we went from 'there is a small group of people with a mental health condition called gender dysphoria who need our empathy and effective treatment' to 'Everyone has a gender identity! And the people who have a mismatch between their gender and their sexed body are transgender/non-binary! And all we can do to help them is hormones, surgeries, and pronouns!'
How. Did. This. Happen??? Like seriously? And who ultimately stands to benefit from this cookie-cutter solution and these life long patients?
I'm horrified to think of all the people who have been and will be negatively impacted by all this. The average person has no idea how experimental all this is. The clients, the families, the policymakers, there is so much pertinent information that's being left out of the conversation and the mental health/medical community is absolutely complicit in this.
It benefits big pharma biotech and plastic surgeons. Follow the money
Check the 11th hour blog by Jennifer bilek. She clearly outlines several millionaires and billionaires who created this decades ago and who enlisted unwitting feminists to push it. And yeh pharmaceutical companies benefit, plastic surgeons (only slightly more, as they have more patients and the cosmetic surgery options have increased) and gender therapists profit from it. It's kinda like covid created all these jobs, too, now there's gender therapists, gender instructors (who come to do presentations to your business in a hr fashion) and such.
33:00 This is exactly what I always tell people. The folks in this community are so hung up on their looks, it's like they never got past adolescence. They are the eternal adolescent. What are they going to do once they hit 40 and their bodies no matter what gender starts to wrinkle and rot? At some point it doesn't really matter any more.
In my opinion, they've tied these therapist's hands behind their backs, then said, "Reach out your hands & help them." And if you untie your hands to help, you'll be fired. They have been given an enormous task of trying to navigate some very dangerous & risky waters with a child & a family's well-being in a boat that's never been successfully sailed. I would NOT treat children in a clinical setting under those circumstances. Horrible, just horrible. Let's cut off your arms, then tell you to swim, then blame you for drowning.
There is conversion therapy though. The transing away the gay. Your story is so inspiring and thanks you for standing up for the sane lesbians and gays. So thankful to those like yourself that are brave enough to speak on this matter. Thank you
How wonderful it is in this crazy world to listen to two reasonable, logical, very Inteligent people discuss this issue so well. Perhaps there is some hope for the human race after all. I hope so. I am 63 years old, and I remember a wonderful childhood of so much good fun. My wish for every child is they have long and wonderful childhood. It makes adulthood much easier!
Great interview. Love Helen Joyce. And I love that Stephanie looks like one of my all time fave women, Laura Dern!
The irony of RUclips putting a 'fact-check' on this video that erroneously includes 'gender identity' in a definition of conversion therapy says all you need to know about the capture of tech companies by this ideology.
I am grateful for this conversation as it is so desperately needed to be heard. As a therapist myself, I resonate wholeheartedly with the thoughts and concerns that are so eloquently put forth. Affirming or denying a clients perception of themselves or the world is not a therapist's job. A good therapist offers a space of unconditional positive regard and a safe space of exploration that helps their client unpack the core issues that often underlie their perceptions and challenges. Good therapy is setting aside personal beliefs, religious or political. When legislation is put forth to prevent good therapy and replace it with activism, it undermines the legitimacy of the very institutions that are supposed to educate, regulate and enhance approaches to physical and mental wellbeing of the people they are meant to serve.
Kudos to you for being so brave and outspoken about these issues. Also thanks for pointing out how chronically damaging these young people's bodies might lead to a much higher rate in suicides. I've been suffering from severe musculoskeletal chronic pain and resulting disability since a young age and I wish these kids knew how precious their healthy bodies are and how truly miserable your life can be when you end up living the life of a 90 year old at 30 and how the last thing on your mind then is not fitting into alleged gender stereotypes. To risk early osteoporosis and other damage because of some insane agenda that exploits kids vulnerabilities and pushes them into altering their bodies without proper mental assessment/help is plain criminal. Thank you again for not going with the flow and for being a voice of reason in the middle of this madness.
Thank you for this conversation. I've mostly watched Helen as an interviewee, so it was nice to also see her be the Interviewer. You are so brave Stephanie for trusting in your own mind and what you know to be right and best for people. Both of you keep doing what you're doing!~ The world needs it.
You beautiful, brave women. Thank you so much!! I loved this interview, and wish I could get ALL my politicians to watch it. The EXACT same thing is in the course of happening here in Norway, too. With a completely unnecessary "anti gay conversion" bill being proposed, that's got "gender identity" just sort of hooked on to it, as a Trojan horse. But.. no one is even talking about that, or what it means! No one is saying anything about "gender identity", because most people are still really that asleep here!! It's all: "gay, gay gay! Gotta fight that homophobia! And if you say anything against this law..? You're just a homophobe!" It's scary how the TRAs here are just as sly and devious as the ones over there, and they follow the exact same tactics! (Explicitly outlined in the IGLYO, if I remember correctly?) But while you Brits are gradually waking up..? Most people here sincerely have NO clue at all! And it makes me feel SO darn crazy!! I think I shall post this interview, and my own comments, at a relevant website. In hopes that maybe some politician will take an interest, and listen. I feel like almost everyone just dismisses our side, without actually LISTENING to us! Because, mental filters and defenses telling them not to. And it is absolutely maddening! I mean, even most FEMINIST organizations here, for crying out loud? Even our biggest RADICAL feminist organization? Is like: "no, we don't support those awful TERFs. We are INCLUSIVE!! Our feminism is for EVERYONE!" ..Hence not actually for women, anymore. And one of our ONLY outspoken, openly GC feminists just got reported to the cops, for "misgendering" a man who identifies as a lesbian! And telling him he is NOT a fucking lesbian! Because apparently, saying that is a crime here now, because hate crime legislation.. WHAT?? We are SO captured, and people haven't got the FAINTEST fucking idea!! Just signed the WDI with my FULL name, and became a member, though... Because I'm finally at a point where I no longer give a fuck, if people figure out about my thought crime heresy! Fucking let them! I'm not going to be ashamed of standing up for what's actually right, here! Or the fact that I've bothered actually deeply RESEARCHING something that others have just ignored!
Crazy how much you're demonized, just because you dare to share information that isn't popular, that challenges the mainstream "shut up and be nice" narrative. I totally get why people would get reported into oblivion if what they said was basically: "ya know, I just hate trans people! They are the worst! They are disgusting! They should just simply NOT exist!" There's REAL transphobia, that can he REALLY, truly harmful, for ya. But.. I haven't heard even a SINGLE gender critical person say that! So many of us are coming from a place of love and concern for our fellow humans, and just wanting to prevent REALLY bad and sinister things from happening to them! And yeah, sure, there is anger. But.. with how much harm has already been done, women's rights being eroded, and us being DELIBERATELY misrepresented and maligned, how could there possibly NOT be?? It is absolutely crazy, what happened to such an OBVIOUSLY kind, thoughtful and compassionate therapist! You should have gotten medals and accolades, for being an ESPECIALLY amazing, conscientious, and aware member of your profession! And instead, you get THIS stuff? WHAT???
**Chugs on coffee, because I'm NOT going to drink wine at this hour, although it's tempting.**
Yay, good habits.
Stephanie, I am relistening to this now before I embark on my first semester of grad school to become a counsellor. As a woman who went through child abuse and struggled to accept myself as a lesbian in early adulthood, I too feel very protective of teens getting caught up in this. I admire you so much and I applaud you for speaking out about this. ❤ Thank you!
Thank you so much for this account of your experience as a therapist. I have been sitting a couple of classes away from my degree in psych for 6 years because I became so uninthralled with the whole “business” of psychology. Your progress is so very close to exactly what has been going on with me even though I am not an actual therapist. As a lesbian who worked closely with the tans community for trans rights for many years; I resisted my thoughts on what has been going on and assumed all news that had to do with detrans numbers or that kids could get transitioned before 18.
Waking up has been painful. And one of my three adult daughters is considering breast removal just because she feels genderless.
Another amazing insightful convo! Been going back through the catalogue, great work! Thank you!
1:46:00pro "affirmation" therapists and counsellors ARE doing that, by the criteria they are using for what makes someone a male or a female.
Its in the written resources supplied to schools and universities.
The ‘conversion therapy’ aspect of this movement and the fact it’s been signed into law is truly disturbing.
I came over from your interview with Peter... I am looking forward to listening to this podcast... 🇺🇸
Thank you, Stephanie. I very much enjoyed this podcast with Helen, whom I have agreeably listened to on several platforms. I am glad to know you too are out there practicing courageously, with wisdom. Much good luck to you going forward.
This interview is amazing! I am so happy there are ethical and excellent therapists like you out there. I love how you followed your intuition. It is quite a multi-layered and multi-faceted phenomenon. I find it incredible how this movement crept up on us and effectively gagged an entire society. It is child abuse. It is manipulative. It is destructive. It takes courage to speak out as a therapist. I 100% agree that kids have way too much control and power that is developmentally inappropriate. I agree that this ideology is inducing chronic disability. Definitely not going to age well. It is outrageous that it was allowed to get this far already. Absolutely shocking. We need to be creating more emotional resilience in our young. The world is a better place with people like you in it; ethical, courageous and with a conscience. I also love any interview with Helen Joyce in it and it's great to see her as an interviewer too.
One of the best conversations on the topic on RUclips.
That was an epic rant towards the end. Righteous fury! x
Thank you for being so compassionate and brave.
Wonderful interview, Stephanie. Thank you so much. Wonderful Helen as well.
I’m so thankful I’ve found you - a strong, professional voice of reason helping our children.
"That was really powerful."
I could not agree more. I was thinking the same thing. It boggles the mind that in 2023, this is the state of Healthcare for children, especially, in this time of vulnerable confusion.
Our current society is creating children who will have bone issues, brain health issues, possible cancers and complications from surgeries. Its barbaric. And doctors and therapists are being out in a situation of ruining their lives or ruining the lives of children
When the bankers made it out untouched out of 2008 I said " no way other professionals, like doctors, would get away with something like this". Boy was I wrong
Btw, here's how to complain about me. 🙂
" .. I'm just not the right person to pick a fight with."
Excellent!! 👊👏👏👏
Fascinating to hear this professional side of the issue. Thank you
More terfs! Yes. Subscribed!
Btw....if you're the person (therapist) who provided EMDR services for Oregon EMDR...
Thank you....
You've been a tremendous help for me.
Best to you!
Thought so.... again thanks!
An amazing Convo with Helen Joyce...
Passion for protection.
The Pied Piper of gender ideology plays an attractive tune.
My daughter hears it everyday.
I'm grateful to know there are voices of compassionate reason to turn to when I need guidance as a father.
Every person in the USA needs to hear this right now. Thank you.
What an amazing chat! Happy to subscribe and share. I’m a psych student hoping to get a PhD in clinical neuropsychology, and watching this debate from the inside is equal parts thrilling and frightening. Thank you for treating this topic with the compassion and the rigor that it deserves. Good luck 👍
In my country (Australia), the state of Victoria has recently passed anti-"conversion therapy" laws that effectively mandate affirmative "care" for gender-questioning patients. It hasn't raised much media interest. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, and whether or not other states follow suit.
Brilliant work, great and much needed conversation. Thank you! Stephanie you are so brave, so well spoken and deeply thoughtful.
This was very informative and important. I wish it was required viewing for everyone. I also wish there were more therapists like you! Keep speaking up, I'm willing to die on this hill too.
Thank you for having the courage to talk about this. I feel the same… I would have been one of these kids too! I shaved my head as a young girl, cross-dressed… I’m SO glad I came of age 20+ years ago and not today. I want to do anything I can to help protect these girls from being genitally mutilated before they are old enough to make informed consent. And certainly no one should be driving a wedge between these kids and their parents.
Hi There! Amanda here, Stephanie’s new assistant. I’m helping her catch up on DMs & comments. She wanted me to get back to everyone who has reached out lately, and let you know that while she doesn’t have the bandwidth to track & respond to every message across all platforms, she did just set up a new community for people who want to go deeper or ask questions, at somekindoftheraist.locals.com.
Members can ask questions & get answers in exclusive, private Q&A livestreams. Plus, engage with like-minded people, free of ads, bullies, & trolls. Stephanie might start offering backstage, early access to new podcast episodes while they’re being recorded, or other features suggested by members like you!
If you’re a thoughtful therapist, concerned parent, politically homeless citizen, or simply a free-thinking individual that enjoys You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist podcast, we encourage you to join this community. You can join free for your first month with code GRANDFATHER, after your first month, your membership is only $8/mo.
If you have a question for her next (and first!) private livestream, you can leave it as a comment right on this post:
somekindoftherapist.locals.com/post/3654098/drop-you-questions-here-for-my-first-q-a-livestream
If I’ve sent you this message in error, please forgive me. I’m not personally aware of the details of everyone she has interacted with online, just trying to help out as she has a lot of messages coming in right now. If you have any other questions for her but you don’t think Locals is the right place - for instance, if you want to request an interview with her - feel free to reach out to me directly at amacdon23@gmail.com and I will do my best to route your question.
Thanks for reading!
You speak of the reduced dating pool for the trans kids but don’t mention the increased opportunity pool for sexual predators- disposable kids, who can’t get pregnant and are also disposable. Kind of real life “silencing of the lambs”. Keep up the good work. This is the best conversation I’ve heard on this topic. I can see Helen’s momma bear wheels turning.
Absolutely amazing conversation. Thank you both
Another gay guy who is in awe of your superb work. I respect any trans person who chooses this path for themselves. But medicating and socially transitioning kids who are all still in development is indeed gay conversion therapy. We know full well 90% of kids will grow out of gender dysphoria, and we full well know that most of the gender dysphoric kids have comorbidities. Thank you Stephanie, you are a hero.
Uh. Wow. This was great. Thank you for sharing.
I wish I could speak as competent, succinctly, and articulate as you both.
Thank you.
Thoroughly impressed by you, way to be strong
I just stumbled across this, but I loved it. It makes so much sense. Thanks.
This therapist (Stephanie) is extremely impressive. Having heard this 2 hour interview, I trust her instincts 100%.
I just discovered this podcast and some time ago I discovered Helen Joyce through different discussions in the internet-u are both great and this episode is too- but for me what I discovered what is helping me in my everyday life in Germany as a heterosexual white 35 y o woman is: that I dont feel free to ask questions , that my freedom of having an opinion on this issues is absolutely cut in our social climate because of the fact that I am what I am. I always felt guilty and had empathy because im so privileged and that made compliant. I feel regret to not follow my guts my instinct I felt wrong about thinking there cud be sth wrong going on. so what im trying to say its that these content creators show me that im not hateful or a bad person but much more than that - im not alone and its worth to talk about these topics because I love people and do not hate them at all- the men the woman the children with whatever mental health issues and also the gay community that is in a way dragged into a political problem that shud be never ever put on them and their rights. great episode I will watch more!!
Germany seems to be changing, they quietly decided to not push forward the self id law as planned? Maybe that is a good sign for you, i hope
The “warning” on this video is so sickening and unethical…conflating gay conversion therapy with talk therapy for gender questioning youth is unethical and extremely dangerous!
I can’t express how much I appreciate your bravery. Thank you so much for speaking the truth!
I wish I can timestamp soo0ooo many points, you're both lovely and I've learned so much. This was such an enlightening interview. Thank you both! ❤
Im intrigued by the therapist’s insight into the narcissism of young people’s inward focus rather than an outward focus on crushes etc. I have two thoughts after hearing this. 1. The music that young people listen to seems to me devoid of depth, emotion, struggles, and uncertainty. My generation had music that was able to sing about these things and I think we felt less isolated in our confusion. As opposed to social media which by design quickly sends us down rabbit holes and exploits our tendency to confirmation bias. 2. Since we read less, kids miss out on literary use of inner thoughts expressed on paper. I’m an avid reader so that’s my bias lol but I feel that we miss out on exploring our own inner realities when we aren’t exposed to quality literature which models working through things that are tough. So this quick use of permanent « solutions » to what might very likely be a temporary issue seems to me absurd, irrational and history will not be kind to those who jumped in without any critical thought and robust consideration of all of the aspects of children beyond gender.
Popular current lyric "I can love me better than you".
That said is it art reflecting life or the other way around?
what a great podcast. Helen brought me here, but im going to stay for a while
Such a good listen again the second time around! Thanks for everything you do Stephanie.
Great stuff...
Really informative about the Oregon conversion therapy ban to now include change efforts around gender identity.
Don't ask ...don't tell...
Tick Tock will fill in as an affirming therapist.
Outstanding! Incredibly incisive and the density of helpful ideas and insights shared is amazing! Thank you.
Stephanie, I was so glad to have found this video. I found it because I'm obsessed with Helen Joyce right now. but you are a breath of fresh air in the time of insanity. I have a grandson who considers himself trans female, he is 19. His mother is at a loss as to how to help him so I have been doing a lot of research.
Interesting that there’s a content/context warning above the description of the video on RUclips, courtesy of the Trevor Project. Lordy.
You are amazing. Don't let them get you down!
I already know about Helen Joyce, and she didn't say much, but I can say TWO EXTRAORDINARY WOMEN!
Stephanie is awesome.
Paul
Old white man
New Zealand
The way you talk about coming around to your viewpoint reminds me of when I came around to atheism. It's a slow process of reading, listening, thinking and testing against 'gut instinct' and external culture. It is difficult to go against the prevailing winds but the work or questioning and inquiry and NOT silencing the thoughts is critical for humans.
Came here for Helen, stayed and subscribed for one of the most interesting listens about therapy. Can't wait to dive into the rest of your episodes.
You 2 are great. Cheers.
In listening to this wonderful interview, my negative opinion of humans in general is further emboldened: I’m just constantly amazed when listening to who appear to be reasonably intelligent with a good handle on common sense; are in the vast minority of the general population.
Wonderful discussion. Thanks
Wow. Powerful, thank you both so much xx
I've just listened to this for the second time, I'm sure I'll listen to it a third time - hugely informative! Why does "The Trevor Project" need to get their oar in? They may possibly be a good bunch of people, but this ridiculous warning discredits them hugely to the extent that I don't much care to find out.
Thank you so much this is such a good explanation of how we are going wrong with this rush to transgender and not allow intelligent public debate . Thank you !!
Such a useful conversation - but you saved the best till 1:57:00 mins NEVER heard this said as clearly as this before. THANK YOU. edited to update the time.
I totally get her comments on her case of a young women who didn’t feel safe being a women. If you look at the statistics of sexual assault against women this phenomenon is hardly surprising…..
Thankyou to you 2 Wonderful intelligent Ladies. I'm struggling at the moment regarding this IDEOLOGY, people just won't engage they think I'm being paranoid & it'll sort itself out but I've just watched the Allie Beth podcast with Genevieve Gluck & this has such sinister motives 😡
This conversation was so inspiring and eye-opening, it helped me see things through a new set of eyes, those of a brave and honest therapist, to whom my greatest thanks go for facing thins challenging, most times threatening situations with such conviction. Thanks to Helen Joyce as well, for her amazing work in bringing this issues to attention, hopefully we're going to be able to switch this thing off and go back to our normal being caring, empathetic and inclusive without the whole craze around this woke nonsense.
Majoring is in psychology is what I wanted to do, but because of what’s happening with the transition issue I won’t go near it as a profession! A lot of people are starting to lose respect for psych professionals. Remember the term “quacks”?!?
It's hard to believe that someone that's reasonable expressing something so absurdly reasonable can get someone investigated for malpractice, when the real ones that need to be investigated and lose their jobs are the ideologues that have gained power somehow sitting on the boards.
You are doing great work out there! Please keep it up,!
Thanks so much!! xx