This really is so fun to listen to. The slow process of this guy realizing what wolf and mauler are saying is satisfying as hell and I especially like how mauler handled the whole conversation. Love this kind of stuff.
Poor lad is just an over-emotional guy who doesn't want to admit something he likes is bad, because he's still at the age where he thinks what he likes defines him as a person. Thus admitting something is bad and he still likes it (he thinks) makes him look "stupid" and bruises his ego, as does conceding any point in this debate. This... is Gen Z incarnate.
I appreciate the few moments when Wolf softened himself a bit. When he mentioned Halo, and when they started to get through to this guy, he seems like a very genuine person. I hope he's doing well.
@Team Tundra 2 I appreciate the few moments when Wolf softened himself a bit. When he mentioned Halo, and when they started to get through to this guy, he seems like a very genuine person. I hope he's doing well. Better?
@@thedreadpirate3454 thankyou so much back then when he didn’t delete his channel i was able to download two of his videos on my phone, Thor ragnarok and justice league review but since it broke i cant open it and even find the videos on yt but im glad you have those ty
@@generaljeanmoreau6853 Happy to help man :) I kindof wish I could upload Justice League on youtube instead of Bitchute. I really don't like the climate of Bitchute and I really want to delete my channel there but it's the only way to keep up some of my copies of Wolf's videos that got hit for copyright. If you want to watch them on RUclips, there's a couple of other people who also re-upload his videos and they were somehow able to avoid getting the videos blocked. One of the more complete ones is run by a guy who goes by S. K. Terror Wolf. Also, you can type in Of Writing and Rage archive in the RUclips search bar and a bunch of re-uploaded videos come up in addition to mine. I recommend checking them out to make it easier on everybody. Fortunately I'm not the only game in town. Keep circulating the tapes :)
I'm 16 minutes in and this is fucking PAINFUL. At first I felt bad for this guy for being nervous (and arguing 2v1). But...Wolf and Mauler are begging him to make a point, even helping him stay focused, but he can't do it.
"Let him go down the rabbit hole" hahaha oooooh we've all had these internal discussions, this poor chap just happened to bump into Wolf and Mauler and learn the hard way. Great to listen to :)
Notice he didn't actually answer wolf's question about what parts of the movie he didn't like. This is because he made that claim as a way to deflect their criticisms, with the logic being, "Well I have problems with the movie TOO, but I was able to like it regardless, why can't you?" However, Wolf caught it and called him out on it, questioning him on what he found bad about the movie, and exposed this guy to the viewers that he was fucking lying.
Oh my god my blood pressure is through the roof from this video. Has this guy even seen TLJ? I applaud you both for somehow putting up with this. Can we just get Rian Johnson himself to have a debate? Now THAT would be podracing.
holy shit, mauler is a smart fuckin cookie. He litterally has a photographic memory when it comes to argument points no matter how many times this guy changes the subject,.
Ok, if Ben had been completely wrapped in the dark side with NO light left in him, firmly and deeply convinced with HIS OWN WILL that he wants to kill, torture and destroy like anakin did in the finale of revenge of the sith then (And only then) it would make sense for luke to think about killing him. But in the film it is NOT the intentions of Ben that luke sees but only a POSSIBLE FUTURE. THAT IS WHERE the problem lies. This is my conclusion after thinking about it for years. Luke wouldn't consider killing his own nephew if it was just a possible future. He would surely try to reason with him. THAT is why people are fightning, for bad writing not because is their fault as audience.
Even Anakin at the end of RotS doesn't actually want to do what he does, he just believes that it's his only way to become strong enough with the dark side to save his wife. I honestly think the only character in Star Wars who Luke would kill like that in cold blood is Palpatine, I don't think there's a single other character (at least that I'm aware of) who is so evil and unredeemable that he wouldn't at least attempt to reason with them first. And regarding Ben, even if somehow Luke had an errant thought about killing him, I simply can't believe he would EVER end up next to his sleeping body with his lightsaber ignited. That would never happen.
@@nosfrattirek5690 That's true. And I think Anakin also wanted more power so he could save the galaxy by killing Palpatine and becoming emperor himself.
Man I forgot how painful this was. Hopefully the guy came away from it learning something. Though I do wonder how he would feel about Rise of Skywalker.
My playlist is at random and I'm half-listening, but still: "Oh, you guys didn't buy the blue ray?!" Edit: 1:45:32 Two friends: *Snickering of pure, same-minded, semi-condescending glee!*
This is what really irritates me about people who defend these sequels. They constantly obsess over the messages and themes and ideas and completely ignoring the execution and handling. Cuz the IDEA of Luke having a fall from grace and needing to be brought back up again on paper sounds like a really good idea. But if that gets executed badly, which it was, then that’s going to completely ruin it. And then there’s the THEME with the message of of “failure is the best teacher.” The theme and that message in itself is good. But they executed how the shared that message very badly and it messed it all up. And that’s just a couple big examples and I could keep going. But the point is, if you want to be a good story writer, you have to focus on making sure the story is executed well and is consistent and conveyed well so that the people watching or reading or listening to the story can be immersed and hooked and find it believable. And then themes, ideas, lessons, and messages that come with the story have to be SECONDARY. If you want your theme or whatever to strike home, you first have to make sure the story works and the execution of everything is good. Then, and ONLY THEN, can you sprinkle in the underlying messages and lessons. And that’s such a key part if writing a story. The plot cannot revolve around the themes. The themes have to revolve around the plot. So the theme can only be as good as the plot. If the theme is good but the story is bad, then the whole thing doesn’t work. But if the plot is good, even if the theme is bad, then it’ll still work a lot better even if you don’t follow or agree with the theme because at least the story was still good. And these star wars sequels simply fail at the main story and plot and continuity, which means even if they put in the most perfect and righteous themes in, it’s still going to horrifically fail. And that’s what these people seem to keep forgetting because they keep emphasizing and focusing on the IDEAS rather than the EXECUTION. Always focus on the execution of the story and making sure its continuity is consistent first, especially in something like Star Wars where certain rules and things have already been previously set up and have to be followed through and adhered to. And then AFTER you get the story completely down and make sure it fits perfectly fine without contradicting or messing up anything, THEN you can put the themes in. And because the Star Wars sequels completely fail at that, that’s why they don’t work and completely suck and why we hate them so much. Because if the story is messed up for the sake of the themes, then it’s all going to be a dumpster fire. Story comes first. Themes come secondary. That’s how it works. And the sequels are one of the biggest examples of all time on how to fail at that. Secondly, they often try to say that people who don’t like the characters and are criticizing the characters are attacking the actors who played those characters. That’s a complete falsehood. I won’t deny that sure there’s those certain ugly ducklings that may do something like that which we will not condone. But not liking a character does not mean not liking the person who played the character. The person and the character are completely separate. So just because we say we may hate a character, that does not at all mean we hate the person. Criticizing the character is not attacking the actor.
johnson had zero regard or respect for the characters and lore lucas created. johnson put his themes above everything not even giving thought to the certain parameters that must be followed in a star wars movie. it would be like kiss hiring me to be their manager for an upcoming tour there are certain things you have to adhere to when creating a kiss concert. so it would be like me telling kiss ok for this tour no makeup no costumes no pyro no fire instead the concert is going to be you guys sitting on stools playing accoustic guitars in street clothes
@@teamtundra2619 Never said you couldn’t like them. You have every right to like them. I’m just pointing out how objectively they completely fail as stories, and especially as sequels. You’re still allowed to like and enjoy something even if it objectively sucks. I will not agree with or support you in it, but you have the right to do so. I can’t force my stance on others, and others cannot force their stance on me. Hence why I was doing an objective analysis and explanation. Not a subjective debate on whether or not someone should like it or not. Because despite all I said, you can still like it if you like it, even if objectively it’s garbage. I have my own guilty pleasure bad movies too, where even though objectively they’re ridiculously bad, I still like and enjoy watching them for other personal reasons.
@@VulpseiusFox story is subjective. There are plenty of story threads and ideas I think are great or interesting about these movies. I don’t think they’re “objectively” bad movies
Watching this for the first time and I'm about 15 minutes in, and I'm debating what would be more painful: continuing to listen to this plank of wood or tying a block of cement around my ankle and jumping in the ocean. Tough decision... Out of curiosity why on earth did Mauler and Wolf, two top notch reviewers who actually possess brain cells, agree to debate this guy? What's the background on the story, because something doesn't add up here. Did he come into possession of some blackmail-worthy material, perhaps some adult-themed video starring both of them together?
All things considered, Wolf and Mauler were open to discussing things with anyone, so long as they're respectful and give good points. Clearly they were too hopeful for this chucklefuck.
Prime example of why you don't debate if you don't know what you're talking about. 10 minutes in and the guy, who has the movie on in the background, doesn't even know what is being discussed. Also, what in the fuck is the "Disney Fanatical Star Wars Universe"? And why can't he start off a point without using the word "fuckin" every time? You can FEEL whatever you want about this film, but when you have to start making up shit and inventing entire personas to justify characters behaving stupidly, and rewriting the script to hand wave away plot inconsistencies, perhaps it's time you re-evaluate your position on whether it's a GOOD film.
1:17:00 why didn't they also consider sending every TIE fighter they had after the Resistence? They clearly have a much bigger fleet with Snoke's enormous ship, and only two TIE fighters plus Kylo Ren blow up the bridge on the Raddus. They have literally like, thousands of TIEs.
Because the TIE fighters would be out of range and they couldn't be supported in their attack... and uhh man I dunno, I guess the pilots were on break dude. Damn unions.
Can I ask this sincerely. In the first Star Wars, why doesn't Vader just jump in front of Leia's ship and capture her? Or also why not send TIES? I have brought this up and people just insist SW 77 and Last Jedi are different. But it seems if ending the space race in TLJ is a plot hole then SW 77 as a whole is a plot hole as Vader could jump in front or send TIES - can someone help me out?
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 He did capture Leia. He didn't want to destroy the Tantive IV, as it had the plans. They were trying to obliterate the Raddus in the Last Jedi though.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 Help me out here. Leia's ship, do you mean the Rebel Imperial Blockade runner that the Star Destroyer captures with its tractor beam? Or the Millennium Falcon that escapes the Death Star because Vader let them go after planting a tracker to find the Rebel base?
I really have a hard time understanding why this guy they are debating doesn't understand how sequels work... Even if all of the other Star Wars related movies, shows, books, etc. were to be set aside...Episode 7 took place within a few years (real time) and less than a bloody week from Episode 8 in the time line... How does he honestly think you can use all of the characters from Episode 7 and write a plot for a crazy different universe that is intended to follow right after the previous one's events...it is ludicrous
I dont know who the guy is that Mauler & Wolf are debating, but I think he is from a parallel universe where TLJ was good, because he clearly saw a different movie. “There were dead children on the floor”, dude that sounds awesome, can you send me your version?!
He was confusing that with the scene in The Force Awakens, where Rey touched the lightsaber and saw a vision of Kylo Ren and the knights of Ren destroying Luke's temple and standing over his dead students.
For most of TLJ I was thinking it's stupid but pretty. RoS was worse. But then I got to the bit where Rose stops Finn actually accomplishing something for once... I couldn't watch anymore. That was SO BAD! The salt planet assault did nothing at all. The Rebels might has well have just shot 11 of their own pilots and saved the time. As for Poe getting demoted for taking out the Dreadnaught... urm... it had a one shot one kill canon on it. The Rebel fleet would've been killed in seconds without that attack. All Admiral Feminist had to do was explain that there WAS a plan and most of the people would've been saved. Stupid. Stupid movie.
Thing guy is unbearable. He sounds like a guy who is faking his oral book report in English class, by focusing on nonsense arguments and distractions of "I'm only asking"....
Wolf was way too hostile in my opinion, the guy they are arguing with isn’t the smartest guy and had some frustrating arguments but he seems to mean well. Mauler struck a better balance at calmly disassembling some of this guys points.
@@joshuaroberts6369 It justifies all my feelings about people that liked this movie. I try to see both sides of things, maybe I'm wrong about last jedi. Then I listen to this guy, and I realize, oh it's just for the dumber half of people.
28:57 wolf actually was wrong here. He did actually call the sister an Asian bitch as well. Not that that is relevant to this really at all, but it is something he did
@@bb-gc2tx I mean has nothing to do with that. But he was wrong about the fact that he did refer to the sister as that. But again, that still isn’t really relevant any way to this debate they were having
@@Dutch_man20 was trying to be funny. im listening right now im only at 25 minute mark and this guy they talking to is not to smart and waaaaaaaaay out of his league trying to debate mauler
@@Dutch_man20 hes one of these fans disney loves just slap star wars on anything and they automatically think its greatest thing. i literally walked out of this movie depressed as a gen xer who grew up loving star wars and experiencing it in real time it was disney basically telling me we dont want you as a fan anymore
1:50:39 I think he was trying to ask if it's possible to put aside all the writing issues of the film and look at how it tells its story. But again, depending on how the story is told, it can be bad or good writing.
In my opinion, the original three (New Hope, Empire, Return) and the Rogue one are the only good Star Wars movies. The Prequels ,Sequels, and Han Solo are all trash.
I can't believe I'm going to do this but I'm going to re-watch this PoS movie to remind myself how bad it was. I saw RoS yesterday and that was painfully bad. :P
OK 1st thing I notice is the direction of photography is really good. It's a beautiful looking movie. Some of the "jokes" are funny but even then, they distract from the supposed tension of the chase or battle. Everything involving Luke and the Casino planet is appalling. The throne room fight was entertaining enough but Snoke was a disaster. Almost all of the problems with this movie involve terrible writing. The direction taken alone isn't that bad.
Obviously making FINN comic relief and REY the uber-mencha were also terrible ideas but this is hardly the only movie guilty of this sort of thing. So far I'm hating it marginally less than RoS
Like seriously! What is happening in schools that these younger generations can't follow along in a discussion, gets confused by metaphors and examples, and sound like their brains are literally smoking from trying to think? I can't stand it anymore. It's like they still talk like when they were 5, when it would be all jibberish with like 3 actual words. So you'd just nod and go, "good job buddy". And also, isn't it just so adorable how all these people will say how they love these movies. But can't remember what happened in those same movies, and when referring to the content of those films, labels them as "that shit or whatever".
My dude confused having points for having good points, and nothing he said is a good argument in any way, also kills me everytime he said axe instead of ask
@@billmcdermott9647 THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT?! I suppose I gave him too much credit. I thought it was commentary on the nature of Disney star wars or their fans, you know? Thanks again!
@@Turuial what he was trying to say was because Disney now owns Star Wars they can do as they like and if they want it to be more over the the top then they can
@@billmcdermott9647 Well, that's not incorrect. While I, and perhaps others, objected to that fact he's right; Disney owns all the toys now, they can play with them however they want.
If you’re passionate about something you still have standards for good quality and not blindly praising every installment of a series because it’s part of your favorite series. I absolutely fucking love borderlands but let’s be real the story for borderlands three was kind of shit and Eva sucks because she got a fan favorite character killed because she can’t do what she’s fucking told! Also the added information of how sirens work in the borderlands universe doesn’t really make sense. Apparently sirens can choose their successors? When usually it’s when a siren dies one is born to take their place. If you do the math the siren antagonist from borderlands that died from the vault monster impailing her in the gut was the reason why Eva was born a siren in the first place. (Eva was not born after Angel died, if that was true she would be 7 years old not 13. Borderlands 3 takes place 7 years after Borderlands 2. Borderlands 2 takes place 5 years after the original game. Borderlands 3 takes place 12 years after the first borderland. Depending on the months in the time line that adds up to Eva current life span. There’s most likely another Siren that took Angel’s place in the universe that’s a kid and might be the new Siren vault hunter in Borderlands 4)
How is it the fan of the movie can't remember what happens in the movie or any of the characters names but the people who don't like the movie remember everything?
This where he makes a fatal mistake . He’s watched it all in one go and haven’t had time to actually absorb and think about it He also got emotional so can’t form an argument…..it doesn’t help that Mauler has done a four hour long video so has points probably memorised @@The_Punisher
@@billmcdermott9647Whats funny is I agree with you it's just am interesting coincidence that every defender to TLJ has the same problem like they forgot the entire movie
The debate started on shaky grounds but then ended quite well, the other guy did tremendously well for having to take on two strong personalities like Wolf and mauler at the same time.
I don’t think that anything that he said about The Last Jedi being bad was wrong, and like him I did feel betrayed by Episode 8 of Star Wars, and I’d of said the same things. But this is everyone’s personal opinion, and if you are 1 of the 47% of people who rated the film and liked It, then all I can say is we just don’t agree with you, and it’s simple as that, and arguing about it won’t help.
@@Marktee772 I don't remember the exact reason, but I guess he wasn't able to handle it and had issues outside of social media. I believe he went to therapy as well. He shows up from time to time on EFAP.
Oof, first point and the prosecution fumbles painfully through basic comprehension, then proceeds as if his misunderstanding of the statement at issue hasn't been addressed. This is going to be a long one. Why did they agree to debate this guy? EDIT: I just realised this dude is the personification of how Lucasfilm sees the audience in toto. Jesus, that's horrifying.
*shrugs* Maybe but it's hard not to be mean to someone who comes at you very aggressively with stupid arguments. It's like Mauler said to him: "You have really bad argumentation." I can see myself having difficulty trying to be patient with this kid too. But fair point.
I'm actually disturbed by the fact that this guy thinks having a lore specialist on set is some kind of crazy unrealistic standard when working on a Star Wars movie. Yes they absolutely should have had multiple people who are well versed in SW lore, not just on set but actively working on the script. And I'm talking actual specialists, not whichever twit looked at the hyperspace ramming scene and went like "well this doesn't seem to conflict directly with anything I can remember off the top of my head so keep it in I guess". Also, the guy is like a 6 year old who learned what a swear word was last week or something. I don't usually mind swearing but it's obnoxious when every other word out of someone's mouth is "fuck".
This debate completely shows the difference between fans and fanboys.
This really is so fun to listen to. The slow process of this guy realizing what wolf and mauler are saying is satisfying as hell and I especially like how mauler handled the whole conversation. Love this kind of stuff.
Mauler IS a jedi when it comes to debate
He is calm and collected. Wolf is rather fierce lol
Mauler is always calm and has a point.
At least the guy is reasonable at the end. Most dont even listen and Just argue.
What
“In a Disney fanatical Star Wars universe” - the OG Disnoid
Can princesses fly through space?
Poor lad is just an over-emotional guy who doesn't want to admit something he likes is bad, because he's still at the age where he thinks what he likes defines him as a person. Thus admitting something is bad and he still likes it (he thinks) makes him look "stupid" and bruises his ego, as does conceding any point in this debate.
This... is Gen Z incarnate.
Yeah. Although I'm in Gen Z too and I don't have the mentality the guy has, since he probably has the mind of a 10 year old.
This debate so clearly highlights the differences between above average and below average IQ.
@McBama who
Dimwit vs. Wit.
42:13
“It’s not stupid!”
“IT IS STUPID.”
“IT’S NOT STUPID!!!!!”
“Ok” lol. That made me crack up
"i'M sAyInG tHaT i LiKeD iT!"
I appreciate the few moments when Wolf softened himself a bit. When he mentioned Halo, and when they started to get through to this guy, he seems like a very genuine person. I hope he's doing well.
What
@Team Tundra 2 I appreciate the few moments when Wolf softened himself a bit. When he mentioned Halo, and when they started to get through to this guy, he seems like a very genuine person. I hope he's doing well.
Better?
Just goes to show that, at the end of the day, both sides are just people.
@@Lobsterwithinternet You can also say they both eat poop and sleep.
Rewatching this after all this time, and it feels like he's about to cry when the "Disney Fanatical Universe" shit starts.
"It'S nOt StUpId!"
I'd like to point that he wasn't even using the right word. The word he was looking for was "fantastical."
"The force can resurrect people?"
I felt this one.
oh to live in a pre TroS world
This version is superior to the EFAP re-upload because it includes a lot of the silence, intro, and jabs that the re-upload cut out
Thank you. I downloaded it fresh and kept it all this time.
@@thedreadpirate3454
thankyou so much back then when he didn’t delete his channel i was able to download two of his videos on my phone, Thor ragnarok and justice league review but since it broke i cant open it and even find the videos on yt but im glad you have those ty
@@generaljeanmoreau6853 Happy to help man :) I kindof wish I could upload Justice League on youtube instead of Bitchute. I really don't like the climate of Bitchute and I really want to delete my channel there but it's the only way to keep up some of my copies of Wolf's videos that got hit for copyright.
If you want to watch them on RUclips, there's a couple of other people who also re-upload his videos and they were somehow able to avoid getting the videos blocked. One of the more complete ones is run by a guy who goes by S. K. Terror Wolf. Also, you can type in Of Writing and Rage archive in the RUclips search bar and a bunch of re-uploaded videos come up in addition to mine. I recommend checking them out to make it easier on everybody. Fortunately I'm not the only game in town. Keep circulating the tapes :)
@Su Us Mauler is a fucking jedi at arguing. I want to learn to argue like him.
@@thedreadpirate3454
His patience is so big I won't last 5 mins if that were me
I'm 16 minutes in and this is fucking PAINFUL. At first I felt bad for this guy for being nervous (and arguing 2v1). But...Wolf and Mauler are begging him to make a point, even helping him stay focused, but he can't do it.
Wolf: "We talk about the first five seconds." The guy: *"SO I'M AT THIS SCENE NOW..."*
@@pablocardoso7830 The guy: Are the Knights of Ren canon?
MauLer: 😣
I can’t believe it took like 16-17 minutes for Wolf to lose his patience with this dipshit & call his argument retarded
1:45:32 - this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why these movies make so much money.
"You have my condolences. " 😂
"Let him go down the rabbit hole" hahaha oooooh we've all had these internal discussions, this poor chap just happened to bump into Wolf and Mauler and learn the hard way. Great to listen to :)
Notice he didn't actually answer wolf's question about what parts of the movie he didn't like. This is because he made that claim as a way to deflect their criticisms, with the logic being, "Well I have problems with the movie TOO, but I was able to like it regardless, why can't you?"
However, Wolf caught it and called him out on it, questioning him on what he found bad about the movie, and exposed this guy to the viewers that he was fucking lying.
"Personally offended"
- a weakling
It's so sad wolf's not around anymore I'd love to hear his thoughts on recent stuff going on
Oh my god my blood pressure is through the roof from this video. Has this guy even seen TLJ? I applaud you both for somehow putting up with this. Can we just get Rian Johnson himself to have a debate? Now THAT would be podracing.
Who
He *still* wants to axe them a question
I miss Wolf and Mauler together.
Me too. The wrong furry left Mauler's crew.
What happened to Wolf?
@@stocking3916 Wdym?
@@snakebebop depression got the best of him.
@@Ragdoll-ky7ol he an-hero'd?
This debate made me lose brain cells...
"-And I clapped!"
A random Disnoid
Man, this was horrid, but I love it
holy shit, mauler is a smart fuckin cookie. He litterally has a photographic memory when it comes to argument points no matter how many times this guy changes the subject,.
And this is a movie he hadn't re-watch in a month
This illustrates the stark difference between those who who watch Star Wars for the story and those who watch Star Wars for the spectacle.
Finally someone said it, exactly.
Don't forget those who watch Star Wars for the representation and diversity.
@@tsrav5 You mean no one?
I don't think he even knows Mauler's name. He keeps saying "the other guy"
Ok, if Ben had been completely wrapped in the dark side with NO light left in him, firmly and deeply convinced with HIS OWN WILL that he wants to kill, torture and destroy like anakin did in the finale of revenge of the sith then (And only then) it would make sense for luke to think about killing him.
But in the film it is NOT the intentions of Ben that luke sees but only a POSSIBLE FUTURE.
THAT IS WHERE the problem lies. This is my conclusion after thinking about it for years.
Luke wouldn't consider killing his own nephew if it was just a possible future.
He would surely try to reason with him. THAT is why people are fightning, for bad writing not because is their fault as audience.
Even Anakin at the end of RotS doesn't actually want to do what he does, he just believes that it's his only way to become strong enough with the dark side to save his wife.
I honestly think the only character in Star Wars who Luke would kill like that in cold blood is Palpatine, I don't think there's a single other character (at least that I'm aware of) who is so evil and unredeemable that he wouldn't at least attempt to reason with them first.
And regarding Ben, even if somehow Luke had an errant thought about killing him, I simply can't believe he would EVER end up next to his sleeping body with his lightsaber ignited. That would never happen.
So the Force gave Luke a possible future of his nephew destroying everything which ended up happening. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy.
@@nosfrattirek5690 That's true. And I think Anakin also wanted more power so he could save the galaxy by killing Palpatine and becoming emperor himself.
It ain’t bad
I like the dichotomy of the dulcet tone of Mauler and the more acerbic wolf 🐺
Man I forgot how painful this was. Hopefully the guy came away from it learning something. Though I do wonder how he would feel about Rise of Skywalker.
I really wish we could’ve gotten a Black Panther debate with this guy
*LET ME AXE YOU A QUESTION*
I axed you...I...I..I axed you..I axed you!
He axed them so many times that it's a miracle they're still alive.
@@KneelB4Bacon LOL
@@KneelB4Bacon Preach LMAO.
RaciaL TIsIM
1:11:30 best moment of the "debate".
It's great, but imo 1:45:32 is unbeatable. To ask that after a nearly two hour debate is fucking priceless.
My playlist is at random and I'm half-listening, but still:
"Oh, you guys didn't buy the blue ray?!"
Edit: 1:45:32
Two friends: *Snickering of pure, same-minded, semi-condescending glee!*
The guy might have been crushed but at least he participated in the debate and I give him credit for trying as misguided and mismatched as he was.
47:19 Oh Mauler and Wolf, if only you knew what was to come in Episode 9…
Nowadays when you joke about dumb ideas Disney takes it as a suggestion.
This is what really irritates me about people who defend these sequels. They constantly obsess over the messages and themes and ideas and completely ignoring the execution and handling. Cuz the IDEA of Luke having a fall from grace and needing to be brought back up again on paper sounds like a really good idea. But if that gets executed badly, which it was, then that’s going to completely ruin it. And then there’s the THEME with the message of of “failure is the best teacher.” The theme and that message in itself is good. But they executed how the shared that message very badly and it messed it all up. And that’s just a couple big examples and I could keep going. But the point is, if you want to be a good story writer, you have to focus on making sure the story is executed well and is consistent and conveyed well so that the people watching or reading or listening to the story can be immersed and hooked and find it believable. And then themes, ideas, lessons, and messages that come with the story have to be SECONDARY. If you want your theme or whatever to strike home, you first have to make sure the story works and the execution of everything is good. Then, and ONLY THEN, can you sprinkle in the underlying messages and lessons. And that’s such a key part if writing a story. The plot cannot revolve around the themes. The themes have to revolve around the plot. So the theme can only be as good as the plot. If the theme is good but the story is bad, then the whole thing doesn’t work. But if the plot is good, even if the theme is bad, then it’ll still work a lot better even if you don’t follow or agree with the theme because at least the story was still good. And these star wars sequels simply fail at the main story and plot and continuity, which means even if they put in the most perfect and righteous themes in, it’s still going to horrifically fail. And that’s what these people seem to keep forgetting because they keep emphasizing and focusing on the IDEAS rather than the EXECUTION. Always focus on the execution of the story and making sure its continuity is consistent first, especially in something like Star Wars where certain rules and things have already been previously set up and have to be followed through and adhered to. And then AFTER you get the story completely down and make sure it fits perfectly fine without contradicting or messing up anything, THEN you can put the themes in. And because the Star Wars sequels completely fail at that, that’s why they don’t work and completely suck and why we hate them so much. Because if the story is messed up for the sake of the themes, then it’s all going to be a dumpster fire. Story comes first. Themes come secondary. That’s how it works. And the sequels are one of the biggest examples of all time on how to fail at that.
Secondly, they often try to say that people who don’t like the characters and are criticizing the characters are attacking the actors who played those characters. That’s a complete falsehood. I won’t deny that sure there’s those certain ugly ducklings that may do something like that which we will not condone. But not liking a character does not mean not liking the person who played the character. The person and the character are completely separate. So just because we say we may hate a character, that does not at all mean we hate the person. Criticizing the character is not attacking the actor.
johnson had zero regard or respect for the characters and lore lucas created. johnson put his themes above everything not even giving thought to the certain parameters that must be followed in a star wars movie. it would be like kiss hiring me to be their manager for an upcoming tour there are certain things you have to adhere to when creating a kiss concert. so it would be like me telling kiss ok for this tour no makeup no costumes no pyro no fire instead the concert is going to be you guys sitting on stools playing accoustic guitars in street clothes
@@bb-gc2tx how
@VulpseiusFox nothing wrong with liking them
@@teamtundra2619 Never said you couldn’t like them. You have every right to like them. I’m just pointing out how objectively they completely fail as stories, and especially as sequels. You’re still allowed to like and enjoy something even if it objectively sucks. I will not agree with or support you in it, but you have the right to do so. I can’t force my stance on others, and others cannot force their stance on me. Hence why I was doing an objective analysis and explanation. Not a subjective debate on whether or not someone should like it or not. Because despite all I said, you can still like it if you like it, even if objectively it’s garbage. I have my own guilty pleasure bad movies too, where even though objectively they’re ridiculously bad, I still like and enjoy watching them for other personal reasons.
@@VulpseiusFox story is subjective. There are plenty of story threads and ideas I think are great or interesting about these movies. I don’t think they’re “objectively” bad movies
Drinking game: take a shot every time this guy says 'fanatical', when the correct word is 'fantastical' or 'fantasy'.
That made me want to scream.
I don’t know if I want alcohol poisoning.
Watching this for the first time and I'm about 15 minutes in, and I'm debating what would be more painful: continuing to listen to this plank of wood or tying a block of cement around my ankle and jumping in the ocean. Tough decision...
Out of curiosity why on earth did Mauler and Wolf, two top notch reviewers who actually possess brain cells, agree to debate this guy? What's the background on the story, because something doesn't add up here. Did he come into possession of some blackmail-worthy material, perhaps some adult-themed video starring both of them together?
All things considered, Wolf and Mauler were open to discussing things with anyone, so long as they're respectful and give good points. Clearly they were too hopeful for this chucklefuck.
The argument is more one sided than a fist fight between Hulk Hogan and Steven Hawking.
47:10 to 47:24 aged like a fine glass of milk... O_o
1:03:55 aged pretty well too, "he had a feeling"
Big oof
I love when this dood tries to rebut them through gritted teeth XD
That was so painful… no points, all emotion. I’m glad it’s up though. People need to hear this.
Prime example of why you don't debate if you don't know what you're talking about.
10 minutes in and the guy, who has the movie on in the background, doesn't even know what is being discussed. Also, what in the fuck is the "Disney Fanatical Star Wars Universe"? And why can't he start off a point without using the word "fuckin" every time?
You can FEEL whatever you want about this film, but when you have to start making up shit and inventing entire personas to justify characters behaving stupidly, and rewriting the script to hand wave away plot inconsistencies, perhaps it's time you re-evaluate your position on whether it's a GOOD film.
He means fantastical Star Wars universe
Thx for reloading this.
1:17:00 why didn't they also consider sending every TIE fighter they had after the Resistence? They clearly have a much bigger fleet with Snoke's enormous ship, and only two TIE fighters plus Kylo Ren blow up the bridge on the Raddus. They have literally like, thousands of TIEs.
Because the TIE fighters would be out of range and they couldn't be supported in their attack...
and uhh
man I dunno, I guess the pilots were on break dude. Damn unions.
Can I ask this sincerely. In the first Star Wars, why doesn't Vader just jump in front of Leia's ship and capture her? Or also why not send TIES? I have brought this up and people just insist SW 77 and Last Jedi are different. But it seems if ending the space race in TLJ is a plot hole then SW 77 as a whole is a plot hole as Vader could jump in front or send TIES - can someone help me out?
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 He did capture Leia. He didn't want to destroy the Tantive IV, as it had the plans. They were trying to obliterate the Raddus in the Last Jedi though.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 Help me out here. Leia's ship, do you mean the Rebel Imperial Blockade runner that the Star Destroyer captures with its tractor beam? Or the Millennium Falcon that escapes the Death Star because Vader let them go after planting a tracker to find the Rebel base?
@@sirpepeofhousekek6741 Still doesn't answer why there is a CHASE. Why didn't Vader just speed ahead?
I really have a hard time understanding why this guy they are debating doesn't understand how sequels work...
Even if all of the other Star Wars related movies, shows, books, etc. were to be set aside...Episode 7 took place within a few years (real time) and less than a bloody week from Episode 8 in the time line...
How does he honestly think you can use all of the characters from Episode 7 and write a plot for a crazy different universe that is intended to follow right after the previous one's events...it is ludicrous
I dont know who the guy is that Mauler & Wolf are debating, but I think he is from a parallel universe where TLJ was good, because he clearly saw a different movie. “There were dead children on the floor”, dude that sounds awesome, can you send me your version?!
He was confusing that with the scene in The Force Awakens, where Rey touched the lightsaber and saw a vision of Kylo Ren and the knights of Ren destroying Luke's temple and standing over his dead students.
@@tsrav5 I serously doubt that considering that he wasn't even aware who the kinghts of ren were in this debate. He thought it was a book...
@@DisplayThisOkay At what moment in the video did he mention "book"? What time?
There were some dead students in that scene. They just aren't very noticeable.
@@bigkmoviesandgames
Not the YOUNGLINGS!
The old thing had me in tears
I find it really weird that Major Lee keeps referencing Mauler as "The other guy"
For most of TLJ I was thinking it's stupid but pretty. RoS was worse. But then I got to the bit where Rose stops Finn actually accomplishing something for once... I couldn't watch anymore. That was SO BAD! The salt planet assault did nothing at all. The Rebels might has well have just shot 11 of their own pilots and saved the time. As for Poe getting demoted for taking out the Dreadnaught... urm... it had a one shot one kill canon on it. The Rebel fleet would've been killed in seconds without that attack. All Admiral Feminist had to do was explain that there WAS a plan and most of the people would've been saved. Stupid. Stupid movie.
I love mauler in this debate
9:09 you can almost hear the gears grinding in his brain realizing how dumb the scene is and an error 404 occurs
The title of this video literally could not be more accurate.
did you buy the bluray though?
@El creig Fumado for the collection
The movie was good bc I thought it was good therefore it was good. That’s pretty much the sum of his arguments
1:09:26
Wolf: Does 2 + 2 = 4?
???: Yes..
Wolf: I disagree
???: That's not f-ing fair!
I f-ing lost it! LOL
This is painful
Thing guy is unbearable. He sounds like a guy who is faking his oral book report in English class, by focusing on nonsense arguments and distractions of "I'm only asking"....
Wolf was way too hostile in my opinion, the guy they are arguing with isn’t the smartest guy and had some frustrating arguments but he seems to mean well. Mauler struck a better balance at calmly disassembling some of this guys points.
Jesus, fan boys really need to stop worshiping bad movies
I am so curious to know what this guy thought of Rise of Skywalker.
I've watched this atleast 5 times.
Me too. I find it oddly cathartic.
@@joshuaroberts6369
It justifies all my feelings about people that liked this movie. I try to see both sides of things, maybe I'm wrong about last jedi. Then I listen to this guy, and I realize, oh it's just for the dumber half of people.
efapp
every frame a pregnant pause
Man, been trying to find this for a while, loved this video, miss the wolf 😓
53:48 - THEN WHAT!?
This is like a wise old man and a wise angry old man trying to set a 15 year old on the right path forward.
Typical sequel defenders.
Yeah the “bc it’s SW” doesn’t fly bc the detractors do not think it is!
28:57 wolf actually was wrong here. He did actually call the sister an Asian bitch as well. Not that that is relevant to this really at all, but it is something he did
hows he wrong for speaking the truth lol
@@bb-gc2tx I mean has nothing to do with that. But he was wrong about the fact that he did refer to the sister as that. But again, that still isn’t really relevant any way to this debate they were having
@@Dutch_man20 was trying to be funny. im listening right now im only at 25 minute mark and this guy they talking to is not to smart and waaaaaaaaay out of his league trying to debate mauler
@@bb-gc2tx oh yeah, you almost feel sorry for the dude 😂😂 but then again, he’s pretty fun to laugh at
@@Dutch_man20 hes one of these fans disney loves just slap star wars on anything and they automatically think its greatest thing. i literally walked out of this movie depressed as a gen xer who grew up loving star wars and experiencing it in real time it was disney basically telling me we dont want you as a fan anymore
BEING OLD IS NOT AN ARGUMENT 😂😂😂
Do I need to watch this drunk? I had to start drinking to get through the Major Lee EFAP video.
It definitely makes it more fun
It makes it fun, but wolf makes this much more entertaining here than in efap
wow this guy really was about to cry on this debate.
He was crying definitely
1:50:39 I think he was trying to ask if it's possible to put aside all the writing issues of the film and look at how it tells its story. But again, depending on how the story is told, it can be bad or good writing.
In my opinion, the original three (New Hope, Empire, Return) and the Rogue one are the only good Star Wars movies. The Prequels ,Sequels, and Han Solo are all trash.
This was really painful.
I can't believe I'm going to do this but I'm going to re-watch this PoS movie to remind myself how bad it was. I saw RoS yesterday and that was painfully bad. :P
OK 1st thing I notice is the direction of photography is really good. It's a beautiful looking movie. Some of the "jokes" are funny but even then, they distract from the supposed tension of the chase or battle. Everything involving Luke and the Casino planet is appalling. The throne room fight was entertaining enough but Snoke was a disaster. Almost all of the problems with this movie involve terrible writing. The direction taken alone isn't that bad.
Obviously making FINN comic relief and REY the uber-mencha were also terrible ideas but this is hardly the only movie guilty of this sort of thing. So far I'm hating it marginally less than RoS
Ugh this is painful but its worth the listen.
Like seriously! What is happening in schools that these younger generations can't follow along in a discussion, gets confused by metaphors and examples, and sound like their brains are literally smoking from trying to think? I can't stand it anymore. It's like they still talk like when they were 5, when it would be all jibberish with like 3 actual words. So you'd just nod and go, "good job buddy".
And also, isn't it just so adorable how all these people will say how they love these movies. But can't remember what happened in those same movies, and when referring to the content of those films, labels them as "that shit or whatever".
My dude confused having points for having good points, and nothing he said is a good argument in any way, also kills me everytime he said axe instead of ask
Does this guy ever explain what he means when he keeps saying, "fanatical Disney star wars?" Thanks in advance!
He means fantastical…that’s the word he means but he gets confused and says fanatical
@@billmcdermott9647 THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT?! I suppose I gave him too much credit. I thought it was commentary on the nature of Disney star wars or their fans, you know? Thanks again!
@@Turuial what he was trying to say was because Disney now owns Star Wars they can do as they like and if they want it to be more over the the top then they can
@@billmcdermott9647 Well, that's not incorrect. While I, and perhaps others, objected to that fact he's right; Disney owns all the toys now, they can play with them however they want.
@@Turuial but it doesn’t make it,,,good there should still be rules established and set up…that’s the issue people have
If you’re passionate about something you still have standards for good quality and not blindly praising every installment of a series because it’s part of your favorite series.
I absolutely fucking love borderlands but let’s be real the story for borderlands three was kind of shit and Eva sucks because she got a fan favorite character killed because she can’t do what she’s fucking told!
Also the added information of how sirens work in the borderlands universe doesn’t really make sense. Apparently sirens can choose their successors? When usually it’s when a siren dies one is born to take their place. If you do the math the siren antagonist from borderlands that died from the vault monster impailing her in the gut was the reason why Eva was born a siren in the first place.
(Eva was not born after Angel died, if that was true she would be 7 years old not 13. Borderlands 3 takes place 7 years after Borderlands 2. Borderlands 2 takes place 5 years after the original game. Borderlands 3 takes place 12 years after the first borderland. Depending on the months in the time line that adds up to Eva current life span. There’s most likely another Siren that took Angel’s place in the universe that’s a kid and might be the new Siren vault hunter in Borderlands 4)
Two gunslingers against a guy carrying a fork. I'm being generous giving him a fork instead of a spoon. LOL
Mauler saying "stative" instead of "static" is funny. The Longman does eventually correct himself though.
01:38:05 And George Lucas was actually smart enough to recognize this himself. ^^
How is it the fan of the movie can't remember what happens in the movie or any of the characters names but the people who don't like the movie remember everything?
I think in this case he watched it all in one go so he’s tired and it’s all jumbled together in his brain
@@billmcdermott9647Still he says it's amazing but can't remember anything about it or who's in it
This where he makes a fatal mistake . He’s watched it all in one go and haven’t had time to actually absorb and think about it
He also got emotional so can’t form an argument…..it doesn’t help that Mauler has done a four hour long video so has points probably memorised
@@The_Punisher
@@billmcdermott9647Whats funny is I agree with you it's just am interesting coincidence that every defender to TLJ has the same problem like they forgot the entire movie
The debate started on shaky grounds but then ended quite well, the other guy did tremendously well for having to take on two strong personalities like Wolf and mauler at the same time.
Should be 4 vs 1 including critical drinker and ben Shapiro
Who was this kid? Weird dude. I take it he was nervous? He forgot what he wanted to say?
Rose and Paige should have been on the bomber together. they escape and later join finn on canto byte excursion
Wolfie, I hope life's treating you well! do keep coming back on EFAP from time to time!
I don’t think that anything that he said about The Last Jedi being bad was wrong, and like him I did feel betrayed by Episode 8 of Star Wars, and I’d of said the same things. But this is everyone’s personal opinion, and if you are 1 of the 47% of people who rated the film and liked It, then all I can say is we just don’t agree with you, and it’s simple as that, and arguing about it won’t help.
Thanks man
I feel embarrassed by this guy.
He have Doris memory?
Who is this StarWars's freak fan?
He doesn't even defend himself.
What happened to the original?
Well. Wolf quit social media and nukes his channel.
@@Marktee772 I don't remember the exact reason, but I guess he wasn't able to handle it and had issues outside of social media. I believe he went to therapy as well. He shows up from time to time on EFAP.
@@Cloud_Seeker his depression got the best of him and had a breakdown and deleted all of his videos
Oof, first point and the prosecution fumbles painfully through basic comprehension, then proceeds as if his misunderstanding of the statement at issue hasn't been addressed. This is going to be a long one. Why did they agree to debate this guy?
EDIT: I just realised this dude is the personification of how Lucasfilm sees the audience in toto. Jesus, that's horrifying.
wolf was childishly mean to the other guy. yes he was stupid but part of me just feels bad.
*shrugs* Maybe but it's hard not to be mean to someone who comes at you very aggressively with stupid arguments. It's like Mauler said to him: "You have really bad argumentation." I can see myself having difficulty trying to be patient with this kid too. But fair point.
He deserved it. Wolf had every reason to mock him.
@@matthewreyes5951 He did come at Wolf very aggressively prior to this and apparently acted like jerk afterwards too. So yeah.
oh my god :D who is this person that MauLer and Wolf are "debating" with?
I'm actually disturbed by the fact that this guy thinks having a lore specialist on set is some kind of crazy unrealistic standard when working on a Star Wars movie. Yes they absolutely should have had multiple people who are well versed in SW lore, not just on set but actively working on the script. And I'm talking actual specialists, not whichever twit looked at the hyperspace ramming scene and went like "well this doesn't seem to conflict directly with anything I can remember off the top of my head so keep it in I guess".
Also, the guy is like a 6 year old who learned what a swear word was last week or something. I don't usually mind swearing but it's obnoxious when every other word out of someone's mouth is "fuck".
deathincarne
42:17
Years later and to think this shit got even worse smdh
32:39 i think hes taking pauses because hes googling other peoples opinions lol.
why does he keep adding the F word in there for no reason?
Fuck?