This was basically click bait. You kept talking about explaining everything at the end, except, you just wanted us to sign up for a membership. That's pretty slimy.
I don’t get the criticism. Basically seems to boil down to your not liking the term “single plane” applied here. Okay. But what’s wrong with what Graves teaches?
When you stand farther from the ball, with outstretched arms, your ability to deliver the club head to the ball in a repeatable fashion improves dramatically. You remove variables associated with verticality (fat shots especially) and swing path (you cannot come over the top). That’s all there is to this and it does, in fact, work very well, with short irons in particular.
To me, at 67 years young, the SPS is the very best option if you want to play consistent good golf, maintain some power and save your back. I've played for a very long time, from junior to senior and been a scratch player. Today, with the help of the single plane swing, I still shout par and around on a 6400 yards course. This would be impossible for me with a conventionnel swing. Thanks to Todd Graves !
@@KiwiGolfUSyou can’t change the definition of single plane and then argue it doesn’t exist dude. The single plane precisely is the shaft line, up through the trail arm (erring on the underside) and up through the mid spine under the arm pit. Due to characteristics of body proportion and club fit (lie angle length), how this line is drawn may vary. You have no argument here because your changing the fundamental definition. The single plane exists as a potential fact in every swing. It’s not up for debate what it is.
I was a terrible batter in baseball, and I see I was "single planing" the bat. Kinda, like flicking the bat across my body. Instead, of the "classic" correct swing. What is "natural" for us hackers (I've been doing it for 30 plus years searching for the perfect swing) is the "natural tendency" to swing the shoulder around the spine like a top or a pinball flipper. I have inadvertently done this SP style swing in the past. This is how I did it, and it does work. a.) Straighten the club, hands, arms and to your chin. b.) Then look down like a rifle sight. c.) Then hold your spine & head like an axle. d.) Then twist your shoulder, hips back. e.) Then untwist. It works but it's not a true swing that delivers maximum power. However, I eventually I evolved out of it. Something did not feel right. In tennis there is a swing called a slice vs true backhand. It is a short chopping(one plane) swing that get's to the ball quickly. However, it lacks power and it is limited. That's the difference. Also, this type of swing really needs a different kind of club head design. All the offset faces and angles of the modern woods and irons work against the simple SP swing. The clubs need to be more shaped symmetrical like a ball.
Hi Kiwi friend, I really like you brought up this topic for a debate, I like debate to get improvements for both sides. Few things I would like to comments are: 1. Moe, Bryson, Todd single plane they did not raise their plane, since their club head still touch the ground, a plane in my consideration is starting from the club head touching the ground (other may not, but "majority" of players do) and a plane ends at your shoulder (it is a big picture of the entire swing plane, not junctions or sections of your arm or of the club). 2. Different people invented different terms to describe the swing plane, they all correct in their own ways, it's just different way of explainations. Example: one may instruct you to relax your arms and wrist swing slowly by the rhythm and tempo, the other instructor may ask you to swing like a pendulum using the "natural" momentum and centripetal force..etc. 3. I think both "single" or "double" swing planes can be exist in golf and in one player can use both depending in the "situation" when you encounter. I think golf is a game to play by the situations not going by the "book", most importantly is which ever method you feel comfortable with then choose that one you like. My favorite will be single plane, since I have a sore back when I bend my back, therefore I stand slightly straighter than other players:) 4. I would prefer to rename these swing planes as: Single plane = straight unbending swing plane Double plane = bended swing plane Once again my world consider a swing plane as a big picture of swing "motion" starting from club head touching the ground to you shoulder, either you prefer bended or not bended, there is no so much thing is double plane, double plane is when your backswing going at example 10° and then your downswing return at and an extreme 75°, otherwise if these two angle are close enough then I'm happy with it. 1. One most important thing about golf is: golf is an "estimation" game, we play by "feeling" not by using a ruler or a scale to measure, we are human we are not a "machine" or a "robot". Cheers :)
whichever way you hit it most solid, and straight is the goal of 1, 2, Furyk, etc., I will say the single plane getting right arm in position and folding naturally with backswing is a big plus of single plane.
what a waste of our time....I was open to your opinion but proved nothing.....it doesn't matter what degree angle the single plane is. The goal is to stay on it for as long as possible between start and impact. And I'm completely ignoring your lens cap example because the ball stays in the same location the whole time. To play devils advocate here, you could argue that the take away is not a single plane. If you watched any of these videos, you would be able to notice it slightly off course. However, in the downswing their plane aligns up between start and impact.
Comments filled with hate, but I’m not sure why. Bryson, in no way, under no circumstances swings on a single plane. Bryson’s club works on a much more vertical plane to the top than it does from transition to impact. By definition, that is a two plane swing. Even if you argue that the arm operates on a single plane, not the club head, it’s still isn’t the same plane. Bryson keeps the trail elbow (the only part operating on a single plane btw) on the plane moving to the top. For the arm to be on a single plane, the arm would stay on plane instead of lifting above, and parallel to, the shaft plane at address. I’m not biased toward this channel, or Graves’, but I am biased when it comes to the golf swing being described accurately, because poor terminology hurts golf swings, not help them. There’s already too much info getting dumped on beginners, the least we can do is try to make our terminology accurate.
Hi. Just discovered your work here! Can you do a video on Jim Venetos' swing method? I close the shoulders at address a bit but not like he does because it feels contorted and I try to swing from 4 to 10. Marcus Edblad also has a lot of inside out content. Also, there are some videos urging closed shoulders as long as possible and others saying open up quickly. Check out both of the aforementioned guys and I'd like your comments on this stuff if you have the time. Thanks! Tom
Okay.... So what in this would indicate that the concept of a single plane swing is a lie? In fact you agree with Todd two or more times during this video. Additionally, your comments at the end would suggest that the swing doesn't begin and end on the same plane. Todd has never indicated that is the exact same plane is maintained during the swing. Only that if you begin and end on the same basic plane you can elevate some issues and pain, making it somewhat more repeatable. You offer nothing to refute his claims in this video, which indicates to me that this is more so about an attempt to make money than to prove or disprove the theory. Considering the number of people out there who love the game and simply wish to play better and enjoy it more i have little respect for anyone who would deliver such click bait. Understand i don't speak to your qualifications or lack there of because i don't know you. But you have presented nothing that would refute the theory or even peak my interest as to your opinion. That is to say that if you want members/ subscribers you have to offer them something to peak some interest. This video wasna waste of my time and, IMO, a wasted effort at best. What's wrong with the idea of eliminating at least a couple variables in the motion? The idea that a complex movement boils down to one movement alone is a farce and not at all what Todd Graves claims.
All conventional swings go from low shaft to high shaft from address to impact. Single plane stands further from the ball to literally address on the same impact plane. Single plane then assumes the particular address (namely sidebend, straight legs, club to body alignment) due to being further from the ball at address the lower body action is different moving down into the knee, not posting up the lead leg to clear rotation because the conventional golfer stands too close to the impact plane.
SPS Moe Norman,hands ,Schaft and body has no need to raise up to make room at impact;due to body position and also standing farther from the ball at address.
Also one big variable is having to much wrist action in the lead hand cause this helped me a lot with the single plaine swing is if you grabbed the club the way Todd showed here you see he don't choke up on the handle but in videos with moe notice moe dose choke up on the club he has part of the shat in his wrist and forearm and that will keep the saft on you angle of attack longer more chances to face square to swing path don't believe me try it because I was hitting fairly decent shots with irons but not so much with woods and driver and because Ithe wood and driver is heavier than iron or because it's a longer shaft it's more harder to control because your whrist are flipping more and I myself didn't realize until I watched moe and especially with his pitching wedge he definitely choked up on the handle there's plenty of videos of this and what did for me was it put a stop to my flipping the lead wrist had so I had more control of my shot now so now when have a intermediate target to help me know where I want to go now grip the club handle with the shaft up inside of my forearm now grip with the other ten finger style and now it won't rotate any in your hand now I line up the tail leg forward if I less loft or back more if want more loft now when you swing it all body not your hands when you take it back try keeping the club behind you and don't be nice about it then rotate hip and shoulders you can't stop it it won't stop there's no way unless don't use it at all but when you rotate both the arms will come back to address and what you will find real fast is that is on plane and down the target line the face will be square because you put some of the shaft inside your lead forearm and yes there's some tension but one thing Im totally sure about is I know for a fact that chokeing up more and have it more in my forearm has let me more control over the club wherever I want to go it takes me there but remember stay with the shot do t back out.
Yes, compared to a classic/modern swing, they and the tens of thousands that they teach, each one of them are on their same club shaft swing plane from address through impact. And for the most part, they all strive to STABALIZE/LIMIT the range of motion of their swing with the goal that stabilization (elimination of variables) produces straighter, more consistent golf shots. Regardless of anyone's belief of the Single Plane Swing concepts or technique, there is little to argue about their demonstrated results - no more wild hooks, etc. That said, modifying swing habits with limitations usually seem unnatural and require effort - there are no free lunches. And in order to get your spine at a whopping 45 degree angle requires the golfer to stand *MUCH* FURTHER away from the ball, you'll need to either refit your clubs or at least have 1+ inch inserts added to accommodate the new swing plane. In fact, Dechambeau had all his irons lengthened a few inches and all have the same identical length. Happy golf trails. Michael
If you haven’t tried it and seen the improvements the single plane swing can make you are just here to criticize something that works. What’s the point of this video?
It would be very helpful if you would stop interrupting the instructor so frequently. You keep saying “let’s get into it” and then cut the instructor off almost immediately. That is so annoying, which makes it so incredibly difficult to watch any of your videos. It would be nice if you could show some substantial improvement before I would even consider subscribing to your channel. Good luck!
Thank you! I'd love to have on Todd and debate around the concept of single plane. I think if he heard my definition of "single plane" swing he'd also agree that there's no such thing as a "single plane" swing. Now, before we get negative comments let me further explain my stance. I believe that working towards the "idea" of a single plane swing could be helpful for certain golfers. However, my point of this video is to not "help" golfers get better. My point is to break down Todd's points and then also bring up the reason why I don't believe a single plane swing exists!
@@KiwiGolfUS …The fact of the matter is that both Graves brothers have enjoyed nice financial benefits by promoting the legend Moe Norman. A nice little built in marketing tool. The two idiot brothers have never helped one single golfer improve at all-ever. The single plane swing is complete nonsense.
@@KiwiGolfUSthe single plane is the impact plane. The only difference is single plane golfers address on it and conventional golfers address close to it. Edit: your contention with angle comes down to camera placement. They draw the single plane up the shaft, under trail arm and through mid spine under the armpit. If people clubs don’t fit sometimes there will be variation. You’ve been proved wrong in this comment and another I left.
Another great video here! Once again, here you have another method teacher trying to put everyone in the same box. Not just that, but let's think about it for a minute. Even if you started out in 1 plane, at some point the wrists will need to come out of radial and go into radial. Think about that for a second. That blows his whole concept of eliminating any variables. So many false teachers out there.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Not A SINGLE PLANER Believer...?
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kiwigolfus.com/
This was basically click bait. You kept talking about explaining everything at the end, except, you just wanted us to sign up for a membership. That's pretty slimy.
You saved me from wasting 13 minutes of my life. Thank you. You're the real MVP.
I don’t get the criticism. Basically seems to boil down to your not liking the term “single plane” applied here. Okay. But what’s wrong with what Graves teaches?
Single plane has helped me a lot….less movements to go wrong and less confusion about what to do and when to do them during your swing!
When you stand farther from the ball, with outstretched arms, your ability to deliver the club head to the ball in a repeatable fashion improves dramatically. You remove variables associated with verticality (fat shots especially) and swing path (you cannot come over the top). That’s all there is to this and it does, in fact, work very well, with short irons in particular.
To me, at 67 years young, the SPS is the very best option if you want to play consistent good golf, maintain some power and save your back. I've played for a very long time, from junior to senior and been a scratch player. Today, with the help of the single plane swing, I still shout par and around on a 6400 yards course. This would be impossible for me with a conventionnel swing. Thanks to Todd Graves !
Bryson DeChambeau there you go I proved you wrong
Bryson DeChambeau doesn't have a "single plane" swing...
@@KiwiGolfUS
What two planes is he swinging on?
@@melantheoszimurri9981 Shaft plane, arm plane, shoulder plane, knee plane, etc.
@@KiwiGolfUSyou can’t change the definition of single plane and then argue it doesn’t exist dude. The single plane precisely is the shaft line, up through the trail arm (erring on the underside) and up through the mid spine under the arm pit. Due to characteristics of body proportion and club fit (lie angle length), how this line is drawn may vary. You have no argument here because your changing the fundamental definition. The single plane exists as a potential fact in every swing. It’s not up for debate what it is.
13 minutes I'll never get back 🙄
Tod Graves has a great reputation you just need to get some where in your life and promote your success
I was a terrible batter in baseball, and I see I was "single planing" the bat.
Kinda, like flicking the bat across my body. Instead, of the "classic" correct swing.
What is "natural" for us hackers (I've been doing it for 30 plus years searching for the perfect swing) is the "natural tendency" to swing the shoulder around the spine like a top or a pinball flipper. I have inadvertently done this SP style swing in the past. This is how I did it, and it does work.
a.) Straighten the club, hands, arms and to your chin.
b.) Then look down like a rifle sight.
c.) Then hold your spine & head like an axle.
d.) Then twist your shoulder, hips back.
e.) Then untwist.
It works but it's not a true swing that delivers maximum power.
However, I eventually I evolved out of it. Something did not feel right.
In tennis there is a swing called a slice vs true backhand.
It is a short chopping(one plane) swing that get's to the ball quickly.
However, it lacks power and it is limited. That's the difference.
Also, this type of swing really needs a different kind of club head design.
All the offset faces and angles of the modern woods and irons work against the simple SP swing.
The clubs need to be more shaped symmetrical like a ball.
Hi Kiwi friend, I really like you brought up this topic for a debate, I like debate to get improvements for both sides. Few things I would like to comments are:
1. Moe, Bryson, Todd single plane they did not raise their plane, since their club head still touch the ground, a plane in my consideration is starting from the club head touching the ground (other may not, but "majority" of players do) and a plane ends at your shoulder (it is a big picture of the entire swing plane, not junctions or sections of your arm or of the club).
2. Different people invented different terms to describe the swing plane, they all correct in their own ways, it's just different way of explainations. Example: one may instruct you to relax your arms and wrist swing slowly by the rhythm and tempo, the other instructor may ask you to swing like a pendulum using the "natural" momentum and centripetal force..etc.
3. I think both "single" or "double" swing planes can be exist in golf and in one player can use both depending in the "situation" when you encounter. I think golf is a game to play by the situations not going by the "book", most importantly is which ever method you feel comfortable with then choose that one you like. My favorite will be single plane, since I have a sore back when I bend my back, therefore I stand slightly straighter than other players:)
4. I would prefer to rename these swing planes as:
Single plane = straight unbending swing plane
Double plane = bended swing plane
Once again my world consider a swing plane as a big picture of swing "motion" starting from club head touching the ground to you shoulder, either you prefer bended or not bended, there is no so much thing is double plane, double plane is when your backswing going at example 10° and then your downswing return at and an extreme 75°, otherwise if these two angle are close enough then I'm happy with it.
1. One most important thing about golf is: golf is an "estimation" game, we play by "feeling" not by using a ruler or a scale to measure, we are human we are not a "machine" or a "robot". Cheers :)
whichever way you hit it most solid, and straight is the goal of 1, 2, Furyk, etc., I will say the single plane getting right arm in position and folding naturally with backswing is a big plus of single plane.
I love the Single Plane Swing. Simple, less to think about and so much more consistent. Much better on your back if you play alot too! Great job
what a waste of our time....I was open to your opinion but proved nothing.....it doesn't matter what degree angle the single plane is. The goal is to stay on it for as long as possible between start and impact. And I'm completely ignoring your lens cap example because the ball stays in the same location the whole time. To play devils advocate here, you could argue that the take away is not a single plane. If you watched any of these videos, you would be able to notice it slightly off course. However, in the downswing their plane aligns up between start and impact.
Comments filled with hate, but I’m not sure why. Bryson, in no way, under no circumstances swings on a single plane. Bryson’s club works on a much more vertical plane to the top than it does from transition to impact. By definition, that is a two plane swing. Even if you argue that the arm operates on a single plane, not the club head, it’s still isn’t the same plane. Bryson keeps the trail elbow (the only part operating on a single plane btw) on the plane moving to the top. For the arm to be on a single plane, the arm would stay on plane instead of lifting above, and parallel to, the shaft plane at address. I’m not biased toward this channel, or Graves’, but I am biased when it comes to the golf swing being described accurately, because poor terminology hurts golf swings, not help them. There’s already too much info getting dumped on beginners, the least we can do is try to make our terminology accurate.
Could you show us what you mean with a golf club in your hand out on the course so we can have a comparison. No i thought not
Hi. Just discovered your work here! Can you do a video on Jim Venetos' swing method? I close the shoulders at address a bit but not like he does because it feels contorted and I try to swing from 4 to 10. Marcus Edblad also has a lot of inside out content. Also, there are some videos urging closed shoulders as long as possible and others saying open up quickly. Check out both of the aforementioned guys and I'd like your comments on this stuff if you have the time. Thanks!
Tom
Okay.... So what in this would indicate that the concept of a single plane swing is a lie? In fact you agree with Todd two or more times during this video. Additionally, your comments at the end would suggest that the swing doesn't begin and end on the same plane. Todd has never indicated that is the exact same plane is maintained during the swing. Only that if you begin and end on the same basic plane you can elevate some issues and pain, making it somewhat more repeatable. You offer nothing to refute his claims in this video, which indicates to me that this is more so about an attempt to make money than to prove or disprove the theory. Considering the number of people out there who love the game and simply wish to play better and enjoy it more i have little respect for anyone who would deliver such click bait. Understand i don't speak to your qualifications or lack there of because i don't know you. But you have presented nothing that would refute the theory or even peak my interest as to your opinion. That is to say that if you want members/ subscribers you have to offer them something to peak some interest. This video wasna waste of my time and, IMO, a wasted effort at best. What's wrong with the idea of eliminating at least a couple variables in the motion? The idea that a complex movement boils down to one movement alone is a farce and not at all what Todd Graves claims.
All conventional swings go from low shaft to high shaft from address to impact.
Single plane stands further from the ball to literally address on the same impact plane.
Single plane then assumes the particular address (namely sidebend, straight legs, club to body alignment)
due to being further from the ball at address the lower body action is different moving down into the knee, not posting up the lead leg to clear rotation because the conventional golfer stands too close to the impact plane.
Do you have any single plane swing golfers in Dublin Ireland
SPS Moe Norman,hands ,Schaft and body has no need to raise up to make room at impact;due to body position and also standing farther from the ball at address.
A- Swing, X-factor, stack and tilt, what else did I miss?
Also one big variable is having to much wrist action in the lead hand cause this helped me a lot with the single plaine swing is if you grabbed the club the way Todd showed here you see he don't choke up on the handle but in videos with moe notice moe dose choke up on the club he has part of the shat in his wrist and forearm and that will keep the saft on you angle of attack longer more chances to face square to swing path don't believe me try it because I was hitting fairly decent shots with irons but not so much with woods and driver and because Ithe wood and driver is heavier than iron or because it's a longer shaft it's more harder to control because your whrist are flipping more and I myself didn't realize until I watched moe and especially with his pitching wedge he definitely choked up on the handle there's plenty of videos of this and what did for me was it put a stop to my flipping the lead wrist had so I had more control of my shot now so now when have a intermediate target to help me know where I want to go now grip the club handle with the shaft up inside of my forearm now grip with the other ten finger style and now it won't rotate any in your hand now I line up the tail leg forward if I less loft or back more if want more loft now when you swing it all body not your hands when you take it back try keeping the club behind you and don't be nice about it then rotate hip and shoulders you can't stop it it won't stop there's no way unless don't use it at all but when you rotate both the arms will come back to address and what you will find real fast is that is on plane and down the target line the face will be square because you put some of the shaft inside your lead forearm and yes there's some tension but one thing Im totally sure about is I know for a fact that chokeing up more and have it more in my forearm has let me more control over the club wherever I want to go it takes me there but remember stay with the shot do t back out.
I dropped 8 strokes using single plane
Yes, compared to a classic/modern swing, they and the tens of thousands that they teach, each one of them are on their same club shaft swing plane from address through impact. And for the most part, they all strive to STABALIZE/LIMIT the range of motion of their swing with the goal that stabilization (elimination of variables) produces straighter, more consistent golf shots. Regardless of anyone's belief of the Single Plane Swing concepts or technique, there is little to argue about their demonstrated results - no more wild hooks, etc. That said, modifying swing habits with limitations usually seem unnatural and require effort - there are no free lunches. And in order to get your spine at a whopping 45 degree angle requires the golfer to stand *MUCH* FURTHER away from the ball, you'll need to either refit your clubs or at least have 1+ inch inserts added to accommodate the new swing plane. In fact, Dechambeau had all his irons lengthened a few inches and all have the same identical length. Happy golf trails. Michael
HUGE waste of time. Pure click bait.
If you haven’t tried it and seen the improvements the single plane swing can make you are just here to criticize something that works. What’s the point of this video?
It’s not a lie. It actually works.
I’m suprised, he hasn’t tried suing you, yet.
He wouldn't waste his time he has a great sense of humor
This is nothing new.Hogan used this.warch him reach out with the driver.Snead used this also.Lots of players used this maybe not so pronounced
The more times you repeat yourself, the more ads you can cram into a 10 minute video that should be 2 minutes. Everyone knows that, right? 🤷🏼♂️😂
It would be very helpful if you would stop interrupting the instructor so frequently. You keep saying “let’s get into it” and then cut the instructor off almost immediately. That is so annoying, which makes it so incredibly difficult to watch any of your videos. It would be nice if you could show some substantial improvement before I would even consider subscribing to your channel. Good luck!
Those who can’t criticize!!!
An interesting topic!
Thank you! I'd love to have on Todd and debate around the concept of single plane. I think if he heard my definition of "single plane" swing he'd also agree that there's no such thing as a "single plane" swing.
Now, before we get negative comments let me further explain my stance. I believe that working towards the "idea" of a single plane swing could be helpful for certain golfers. However, my point of this video is to not "help" golfers get better. My point is to break down Todd's points and then also bring up the reason why I don't believe a single plane swing exists!
@@KiwiGolfUS …The fact of the matter is that both Graves brothers have enjoyed nice financial benefits by promoting the legend Moe Norman. A nice little built in marketing tool. The two idiot brothers have never helped one single golfer improve at all-ever. The single plane swing is complete nonsense.
@@KiwiGolfUSthe single plane is the impact plane. The only difference is single plane golfers address on it and conventional golfers address close to it.
Edit: your contention with angle comes down to camera placement. They draw the single plane up the shaft, under trail arm and through mid spine under the armpit. If people clubs don’t fit sometimes there will be variation. You’ve been proved wrong in this comment and another I left.
What a waste of time.
No thanks. Total rubbish
try proving robert johansson golf teachings wrong. good luck
You are kidding right? Robert Johansson is a complete moron bordering on insanity. And that’s being kind.
Click bait I’ll never watch your channel sorry
L... lol
Another great video here! Once again, here you have another method teacher trying to put everyone in the same box. Not just that, but let's think about it for a minute. Even if you started out in 1 plane, at some point the wrists will need to come out of radial and go into radial. Think about that for a second. That blows his whole concept of eliminating any variables. So many false teachers out there.