Refusing to Roll With Women? - Criticizing Firas Zahabi
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- I talk about why refusing to roll with women is morally problematic, if you want women in the sport.
LadyGi video on training with women:
• Training BJJ with Wome...
Ramsey Dewey videos I borrowed clips from:
• You NEED women in your...
• Jess Downer on What ke...
Arizona Silverback video about how funny BJJ looks:
• Inviting a new person ...
I'm getting a lot of concern over rolling with women who might make false accusations. I feel that BJJ class is one of the least likely places for a false accusation to happen. Here are my reasons (in order of importance):
1. There's usually a class full of witnesses.
2. A large amount of physical contact is already expected and agreed upon.
3. The kind of insane people that hurl false accusations for no apparent reason are pretty uncommon in combat sports. They require a certain level of mental resiliency that victim complex crazy people probably don't have.
If there is a SPECIFIC woman that you think is crazy enough to do something like that, avoid her like the plague. If you don't want to roll with women without any witnesses, fine. I understand. But punishing an entire class of people for the (very rare) actions of a select few is pretty unfair.
Statistically, you are more likely even as a man to get sexually assaulted than to be falsely accused of a sexual assault.
@PJ Rivera I touched on it very briefly and very lightly to cut down on angry comments.
I mean, I have a friend in bjj who is uncomfortable with rolling with most people because he is a power lifter with 2 years in wrestling and weighs like 265 pounds.
I've rolled with many women. Never had any issues.
I do have to say, though, that if you've rolled with your girlfriend in private and never LET it get intimate you're kinda missing out :P
But with anyone else, especially in a gym setting... Doesn't matter what the girl looks like it just feels like sparring.
Don't get creepy and you should be fine 🤷🏻♂️
@@mathieucharette6511 I have to agree with you, false accusations is probably the last thing I'm worried about, if I'm even worried at all. I just think it's super unlikely to ever happen in a "JJ" environment (although, MAYBE not impossible), at least most of the time, and IF someone is crazy enough to make false accusations, I think that most likely, they would probably be very inhibited from doing something like that in a JJ environment. It's just a very different environment with a very different dynamic at play.
You dont roll with women because you think its sexual, i dont roll with women because them humbling me hurts my ego. we are not the same
Absolutely, a weakling like you who loses to a woman and brags about it in comment section is not same as a strong masculine man.
😂 you are hilarious, my mate
It's both
SIMP. Rolling with wo-MEN is inherently suggestive and it's a FOOL who would deny it.
As a woman, if you refuse to roll with me as a fellow student, that is fine. I can't make you, and you can't make me.
As a COACH, you AGREED and took my MONEY to TEACH me. How are you gonna do that without rolling with me?
I roll with someone
I am not taking any chances with potential trouble
And I am not comfortable doing so
Mma gyms is 99% male so it's not an issue
fr
I would rather not take the risk.
I rolled with my head coach from my old gym once and he taught me a lot. Same with one of the other black belt coaches. Actually all of the black belts there. They all have taught me quite a bit. There are also other training partners that aren’t dedicated to their wife that would be willing to roll. Idk how women can be offended by a guy that just doesn’t want to sexualize them by putting himself in an intimate position with them. Society attacking men that want to be pure is disgusting.
Good take!
Choosing not to roll with women is a personal preference that any man is entitled to, if there's no one to roll with. Roll with the coach.
What do you do when the coach won't roll with you? That's what's being discussed here. Not just some guy making a personal decision for himself, but a public figure and famous coach. (Plus, some of the other stuff Firas says is deeply alarming.)
@@institches2750 You deal with it, find another gym, or give up out of personal lack of motivation. I mean I'm not giving money to someone who won't train me, so why is it really a question as to what you should do?
@@15thobserverthe problem is ehen you've already given your money to a coach only to find out they won't give you what you paid for
"intimate things don't stop being intimate things when you do them with the same sex, they just become gay intimate things." -A Legend.
That's a dumb argument though. My arousal does not depend on whether a moment is intimate or not.
A normal human will feel arousal long before anything intimate happens. Otherwise, why get intimate to begin with?
@@darkraft1020it's like
My friends and I have touched each other's boobs to piss each other off and laugh at each other, we also see some women do this
But if I see a man and woman do this.... I wouldn't be thinking "oh that's normal best friend stuff" 💀
I mean if one or both of them was gay, maybe it'll be different but otherwise no
My boob touching other men's boobs isn't the same if I do it with a woman 😂
@@darkraft1020 I agree with you. If I stand around a bunch of attractive women, even though standing isn't an intimate act doesn't mean I can't get aroused. Though I still think men should grapple with women, just be professional and focus on the simulated violence.
@@darkraft1020 Also there are tens of thousands of grappling instances that turn into sex each year just not consensual sex. So if intimacy depends on whether it can lead to sex well... Still agree that you should train with women, it's the right thing to do
@@darkraft1020my main solution is to use the nut shield for the MMA class to make it less obnoxious
I agree with you on everything you said, but also...in my 7 years of wrestling, my team and I noticed a fair amount of awkward boners during tournaments when boys had to wrestle girls LOL
top head: "Grappling is fighting... Grappling is not intimate.... Armchair said: Don't be sexist.... I can do this!"
bottom head: *"Wooooohooooo!!!"*
@@lastmanstanding5423top head bottom head 😂 nice
I mean if we're talking teens, they're 50% hormones at that point, the boners are semi-constant lol.
If girls had an outward sign of arousal, you would notice that during wrestling the same as for boys. I guarantee it.
Skill issue. That same blood could be in a myriad of more tactically relevant muscles.
It's Firas choice and he makes very good points on why he doesn't. I get your points but everyone is free to train or roll with whoever they want.
not good points at all. His reasoning is grounded in sexist ideas and a near constant stream of weird sexual thoughts. his views result in discrimination based on sex, which is quite literally illegal. No idea why you're defending such a massive piece of shit. People should not be free to discriminate. Discrimination reduces the freedom of those discriminated against. Why should women have to suffer reduced training because their coach is an idiot and a creep?
I was friends with my birst bjj coach before I started. He would tell me stories of some guys going way to hard on the girls and he would then go hard on them to show them how it feels when someone who out classes you basically bullies you. Idk if he went about it the right way or not. But when I started I was scared to roll with females because I always thought I might go way to hard without knowing and my coach/friend would get mad at me. Then turns out the first girl I rolled with mopped the floor with my and turned me into a sand bag lol.
LOL I've seen people go too hard, but anyone that is conscious and careful about their power is almost always fine.
@@ArmchairViolence Just start easy with new people and adjust during. Also you can ask if they think it's to hard/light many seem to forget that you can talk.
I've read about women that didn't like rolling with men because they all went too easy on them.
@@andersson_casa Yeah, doesn't matter if its a man or a woman, anyone new I haven't rolled with before I start off light and easy. Then once I get a gage on their skill and strength level I gradually turn up the intensity. I don't go full power unless I know that person well and rolled with them many times. Seems like basic gym etiquette.
Yeah, but guys bully each other all the time and we take it. Do they want to be respected equally or not?
It's a personal choice. BJJ is a very physically "intimate" sport. Just take a moment to picture being caught in someone's guard. The point Firas Zahabi was making is that rolling with women can present very sexual thoughts and feelings towards that training partner which, isn't the purpose of one's training begin with.
If a woman said they weren't comfortable rolling with men would she be criticized for her decision?
Again, bjj is extremely intimate, it's therefore reasonable for either gender to prefer training with a specific gender/body type/species/mamal/AI robot. ;)
If you’re thinking about sex while training you’re the weird one. That’s not appropriate and shouldn’t be considered normal. I’m a very sexual person and have a very high drive but when I’m doing BJJ I’m think about BJJ it’s really not hard to be locked in on what you’re doing. If you’re thinking about sex while doing BJJ you’re weird. Stop that.
@@tarettime9392thought police lmao
@@kreynolds7544 nah you’re just a creep
If your uncomfortable with it you don't have to regardless of whether or not they can find someone else you would never ask a woman to do something they felt uncomfortable with
I guess if I have a small business and feel uncomfortable serving Muslims I should be allowed to do so?
@@karayi7239how’s that the same thing you bomboclot? By your logic you should go to female only gyms and voice the same concern
@@karayi7239 Yea, unless your 'small business' has a monopoly on something that is necessary for the community to use. Don't you know segregation is coming back to the US?
@@karayi7239lmao did you just compare individuals to businesses? There isn't any law saying you must roll with anyone irregardless of gender fool. But there are discrimination laws for businesses because they serve the public. What a weird braindead comparison. And the reason why they don't roll with women is to prevent themselves from having lustful thoughts and behaviors from a religious point of view, not because they discriminate against women (in this instance).
@@karayi7239having a small Business like a Resturant is different from a combat sport where You have to make physical contact with the other person. Plus religion is also much different from gender
I personally think my body my choice should apply to everyone
I'm a white belt, and I was very nervous about rolling with women when I first started. I was nervous about rolling with anyone smaller than me as I'm a bigger guy and since I was new I was scared of doing something wrong and hurting someone. This was intensified by the thought of accidentally hurting a woman when I was asked to roll with them. But after giving it a try, I learned that everyone is there to train and get better, and many women actually want the experience of rolling with people bigger than them. Also, it's inevitable that on some rare occasions people get hurt, because accidents happen.
Yeah until a woman doesn't like you and lies to the instructor that you grabbed her t*t to get you kicked out forever. Perhaps you don't believe any woman is bad natured enough to do that in which case I wouldn't wish you a less sheltered life.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 I've heard of that happening a few times, but I've only seen it in person once, unfortunately for the woman in question, the people near them on the mat told the owner/instructor that it was bs, and we filmed most rolling sessions for social media, so when she persisted, we watched the video and she got kicked out of the gym because it was clear she was maliciously lying.
@@theelite3792Your guy was lucky as hell there was cameras. Thats why men shouldn't roll with women, period. Until the US laws are updated, its just not worth the risk.
I think it’s great that there are married men or men in serious relationships that respect those relationships so much that they won’t put it at risk by putting themselves in certain situations with the opposite sex. The fact that there are people that don’t understand it is one of the reasons our society is in such a bad place.
Yep. Would be very interested to see his take on guys who's wives don't allow them to roll with women 😂 also would be interested to hear most women's perspective on this. If a guy finds some of the women at the gym attractive and is having these sexual thoughts. Surely as a woman you'd never want to roll with him anyway? Isn't he doing you a favour by being honest with himself and simply refusing to roll with you?
Sexualizing things that shoudn’;t be sexualized is also what is wrong with our society, though. If it is sexual, does it make it better with one’s own sex or just hella gay anyeay?
@@Coffee_is_ready
People are not made of rubber or wood. We are human beings with our strenghts and weaknesses.
There are people who are perfectly comfortable to physically engage with opposite sex and other people who aren't. If you are comfortable fine, good for you. But respect people who are different from you. To each their own. Do your shit and lay off the others.
Firas doesnt tell his other students that they can not roll with women. He just does not do it himself.
He is setting a bad example though, I think is the point.
@@connormainwaring8866 this is the silliest thing in the world. I know countless women who would not want to roll with a male. What's the difference for vice versa??
@@JewishBettor It is understandably scary for a new female white belt to wrestle with bigger stronger men. A big reason so few women actually train is because of a perceived intimacy with training partners who are strangers. If it helps a woman get started on their BJJ journey to have mostly other women as training partners until they understand what grappling actually feels like, I do not have a problem with this. And same with new male white belts as well, its just usually they're in a class of almost all men and might not be uncomfortable rolling with a woman anyway.
After they've been training for a while, every student should be comfortable rolling with every other student.
@@connormainwaring8866 wrong. Everybody has a right to roll with whomever they want and it's not the instructors place to decide that in my opinion. Which is exactly which Firas is doing and we should respect it. This guy on the other hand to say he would kick out a student over refusing to roll with a women is silly. Probably why I never even heard of this guy and Firas is a world class coach. I'll be visiting Tri Star eventually and by then I will still have no idea this guy's name or his gym and don't care too because his philosophy on this is actually impressively laughable to my valuws
@@JewishBettor Classic appeal to authority. Firas Zahabi is not more correct or intelligent just because he is popular or famous. I would also kick him out of my hypothetical gym.
Just to restate the summary of the video, the point is that the COACH publicly professing (but also individual students) refusing to roll with women reinforces new women's fears about training martial arts. If for no other reason than a business decision; not having women in your gym is detrimental to its success. It denies a much needed service to an entire demographic to have all men refusing to roll with women, therefore the idea should not be encouraged.
I try to avoid rolling with women because I've had it engrained in me that "hitting girls is bad". The few times I have rolled with women, I've gone super gentle and focused on restraining them rather than smashing/submitting/etc.
I think he doesn't roll with women for religious reasons. I'm not a quaranic scholar, but I believe it says something about not getting too close with women you aren't married to or related to. I know he's a pretty devout Muslim so I assume that influences his decision.
I'm pretty sure that is the reason, but he should hve just avoided this question or just say it's because of his religion so people are aware of his reasons.
@@kylestephens9593 I don't think so. I think he can explain his reasoning that way he hides nothing or shows his logic to other believing people.
It's obvious but people are completely ignorant about anything that's not their job or hobby
@@ddwfw If your religion doesn't allow it, don't become a professional trainer. If you allow your religion to impede with your professional responsibilities, you don't belong in that profession.
his wife doesnt even wear a hijab, he's not "strict" muslim, he addressed other social aspect from his religious point of view, very blatantly, goes to show has this been his only reasons he won't shy away from arguing it, he's clearly thinks it's inappropriate on principle, and he made an argument of what men will feel whilst rolling with a women, which not you or this video debunked , and didn't demand it to be imposed on everyone .
Possible counterpoint: Do you believe a famous coach would be morally right for refusing to roll with women as a way to ensure their character is never called into question. I know this sounds like an abstinence argument from health class, but it's a taboo stereotype that a lot of popular MMA women are dating their coaches. Is it understandable for a coach not to want to get me2'd and want to stay out of controversy by avoiding rolling with women?
Great video! Keep it up, just because someone is famous doesn't mean he/she is right in everything and as 10th Planet practitioner, I can say that just because Eddie Bravo is a great grappler doesn't mean that he knows anything about astronomy, topography, or laws of physics ;)
For all the people saying “Firas zahabi is wrong” just to let your know just in case you didn’t see his video, he says “if you want to roll with women that’s fine, I personally just don’t do it” obviously that’s not word for word, but it’s something along those lines, he never says “you shouldn’t be allowed to roll with women, if you’re attracted to women that’s a no no, if you’re attracted to men that’s a no no” he just doesn’t do it himself, but he also doesn’t discourage others to do it, if anything if you can roll with women and not have a dirty thought he said that you are the holiest of the holiest and angelic in his eyes and that you’re so pure of spirit, so he doesn’t look down on you if you roll with women if anything it’s quite the opposite
Doesn't change the fact that he's withholding the benefit of rolling with him from a whole class of students based on something outside of their control.
@@blakejon I see your point I really do, but if he decides to not roll with a woman then so be it. If he didn’t roll with anybody than that’d be a problem because what good is a bjj coach if he doesn’t roll with his students. However, in this case where firas doesn’t feel comfortable or it’s his religion or whatever keeps him from rolling with woman, then people should respect it, now yes there can be a benefit from rolling with him, but it’s not like if you don’t roll with firas you’ll never be good at bjj
@@blakejon maybe he knows that it wouldn't be a benefit to roll with women because he is self aware enough to know it may cause a problem. I think it's very brave and commendable that he can stand up and say yeah I have a biological weakness and I'm not going to put myself in that position at all. Other guys can have no impulses and that's fine too good for them but when a guy stands up and says yeah I might have the wrong thought if I do this then why is he looked down on? Women can refuse to roll with men and would anyone be offended? I don't think so.
@@aishaarshadalam3412 That's fine that he has that self-knowledge, but then he shouldn't be a coach.
It's like a manager who only goes to business lunches with his male employees or a schoolteacher who will only tutor boys because he's afraid something might happen. That guy isn't qualified to be a manager, teacher, etc. and should find another occupation where he doesn't perpetuate sexist advantages to men.
@@blakejon he doesn't stop other people from rolling with women, he just doesn't do it himself. And maybe he has plenty of well trained people to teach everyone in his gym so he doesn't have to. A manager doesn't necessarily train all his employees. They delegate. Anyways the man has a successful gym and long may it continue. If a woman asked not to roll with men I doubt she'd be kicked out. My body my choice should apply to everyone.
I respect his choice not to ground grapple with women as the owner of his own successful gym, it could be that he has enough skilled women in the class and men in the class that he does not need to grapple with the women in his class. As for the term "intimate" the Merriam Webster Dictionary third definition of the term is "marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity" the Judo Ne Waza used in BJJ and most MMA gyms is marked by very close contact and therefore does fit the definition of intimate in the dictionary. I personally don't mind grappling with women but understand if someone else feels it is too intimate and does not wish to do so.
Now, let's look at the clothes or uniforms and the actual positions commonly used by the MMA grappling community. You have the Gi which is equivalent to a Pajama or the skintight, rash guard leotards and the positions that are strived for are things like mounting the hips of someone laying down, the counter of which is to basically thrust up with the hips, a high mount which would place a man's groin area between a female's breasts, the counter of which could be to be slip/shrimp/grind out from under the mounter's legs, which would cause the female's head to be directly under the males groin area. You have a triangle choke where you force the persons neck between the thighs and press their head toward the groin with only an arm in between keeping the move from being a smother into the other persons crotch. You have the north south position which is basically the same orientation as the 69 sexual positions. Putting someone in the guard is literally wrapping your spread legs around their hips (open or closed) You have the rear mount, which is exactly what it sounds like, as a man you would be mounting a female from behind and even putting his legs in-between her thighs to stretch her out (hooks in). Passing the guard may involve stacking would have a female on her neck legs up in the air with the male compressing down on her before going around the legs into side control. The defense of side control may have the male table topping his arms around her breasts to keep enough space to move or otherwise hugging her to diminish the striking power of ground and pound. This does not even touch on the multitude of transitional variations that may have a man grabbing, rubbing or pressing his head or face into any number of areas covered by a bathing suit, the ones children are taught not to let stranger's touch. So, if anyone man or woman is not comfortable grappling with someone of the opposite sex, that should be respected because it is not necessary for skill development regardless of what some pervy coach says unless they literally are the only available opponent.
This comment needs to be pinned. You said everything that Firas wanted to explain in the first place. I believe most wives won't be comfortable seeing their husband hip thrusting a girl from bottom or locking her up in a bodylock and laying down on the floor with her. So what are they supposed to do ? Leave their wife and family in the name of BJJ ? Coaches need to understand this as well and I think that's one of the reasons that makes Firas a world-class coach whereas this buffon is a loser nobody
Thank you! Intimate doesn't automatically mean sexual in definition. Ju-jitsu IS an intimate sport based on dictionary definitions.
He isn’t wrong on this one
There will always be single men willing to roll with ladies. Discouraging men to refrain from putting themselves in situations that they feel uncomfortable in doing so because they value their marriage is disgusting. I’m glad there are men like Firas out there
As a Muslim, I can confirm that Islam prohibits us from touching women you are not related to let alone rolling around with em. In fact men are ordered to lower their gaze and not stare at a non mahram (someone who u don’t know)
Yeah, as a 5’6 130 pound dude, I could never refuse... I’m literally average women’s height, like I’m the closest you’re gonna get if there’s no other women in the gym. That’d be kinda a duck move on my part
Average man’s height is 5 7. Average women’s height is 5 3.
@@Immigrantlovesamerica
In which country?
@@friendlyanomaly6109 US
@@JoeKing837
U no wat ur pfp look like? Lol.
Lets be real, you only wanted to refuse a few times. None of us want to roll with that person either.
I agree. I've found folks who do this, screw over their female student and tarnished any training given.
We need to be careful of what high level folks say. That appeal to authority has allowed a lot of foolishness to permeate otherwise solid practices. I'm glad this was addressed
Also:
"What if you had a student that refused to roll with black people?"
About spit out my drink but dude it HAPPENS. Sometimes spot will permit some very off putting behavior for student retention. Left a school because of it.
He says he’s personally uncomfortable rolling with them, his students still roll with them
What if the women doesn’t want to roll with men? Will we demonize her? Would come off pretty creepy trying to get her to roll with men if she doesn’t want to, right? Idk but I feel it’s a double standard with our culture. I believe people should simply respect each other whether you agree or disagree with something. I get both points but again it seems from my experiences there is a double standard … as long as someone is respectful in expressing their beliefs I don’t feel their should be any harm done. Opinion.
Some women understandably have reservations training with men even for striking, generally good clubs encourage women of the benefits of cross training. Some women don't like sweaty men, which is understandable but this view is not exclusive to women. It is down to overall hygiene practices and policy.
Well the only person she's hurting is herself, really, so I don't think it's really a problem.
If the makeup of the gym was like 10 women - 1 man, then I would say she should suck it up and roll with men, though.
It would only come off as creepy to people who don't grapple, since grappling isn't intimate, and what the uninitiated think isn't really a concern typically. I mean, the uninitiated also generally think grappling looks really gay, too.
Let's simplify. If a child is asking a coach to roll with them as part of the training process / to gain some insight, the coach will oblige. If, however, the coach forces the child to roll with him that gives very different vibes. Same thing with women. Where there is a misbalance of power, the weaker party should have the right to ask but also refuse. With that said, this is more about professionalism. If you're a female coach, for sure you will roll with all your male students. It's just your job. Like a male coach would roll with his female students (unless some of them are uncomfortable with that)
THIS
The only thing making me not want to roll with men as someone who is doing research on bjj before joining a class, is thinking they dont want to roll with me. I live in a small town and the gym is all men. If I walk in there only to stand around awkwardly cos everyone is too afraid to touch me I will never fucking live that down 😭😭
I think you are spot on. that's all. good work again 👌
This whole video is premised on a false interpretation, Firas never said that he doesn't think men shouldn't roll with women categorically. He made a personal choice not to roll with women as a Muslim, he's following his cultural norms. I make a personal choice not to roll with women as a married man, I'm respecting my wife. No one owes anyone else a roll, they have a right to decline based on whatever reason they feel is justified. It's not completely wrong, it's a personal choice of who you give access to your body.
This comment is based on a false interpretation. I never said that Firas wants men to stop rolling with women categorically, or that people shouldn't be ALLOWED to refuse rolls with people. Merely that refusing to roll with women, even on an individual level, can have severe negative consequences for women's participation and development within BJJ and the reputation of the sport as a whole.
@@ArmchairViolence Don’t roll with non-family women for religious reasons. Down the line for the points presented in the video:
1. Your ”Handshake, hug and high five” example
Off rip, this shows the initial problem of you imposing your cultural perceptions onto others. Yes in certain cultures (off the top of my head Middle Eastern, SE Asia, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc) that already IS considered inappropriate between opposite sexes. Just to save time on the “oh that’s so blah, blah, blah” that’s 20% of the world population and what is your objective evidence barring cultural bias that they’re wrong as you claimed they were “raised badly”? More on this in a sec.
2. Grappling is not “intimate”
Yes while not “sexual” which is what you’re actually arguing (and as a quick note since we’re bringing personal anecdotes into the discussion I still haven’t been able to show my wife anything beyond an Americana because she makes everything dirty and when I was in highschool “injury time” had to be called for a dude who got hard wrestling with a girl) there are definitely moves that would invade what many would consider their personal space. Again off the top of my head “checking oil”, crotch lift, figure fouring the head for a pin and how some guys finish the high crotch on the butt. Will now call further BS on your “it’s so innocent” statements with the following examples (irritatingly RUclips does not allow links anymore) please scroll up to your search bar and look at the following videos along with the comments:
“The Intimacy of Female Wrestling/Grappling”
“The Oil Check (watch at your own risk) | College Wrestling”
And…oh my what is this from Hard2Hurt? “Do You Hate BJJ and Love Ground and Pound? Ascend The Throne!”
Now in this video, the instructor (you in case you weren’t sure) shows a technique to beat the grabby boys. During this technique demonstration (which is a good, legitimate technique btw) did Mike or people in the comments make sexual jokes? A simple yes or no will suffice. Also if neither party was wearing a cup is there a possibility of accidentally feeling their sack? (Note not in a gay way but stuff happens during motion) A simple yes or no will suffice.
3. Women’s self-defense
I agree 110% that women need to feel the strength of a man in order to fight them. Oh me, oh my what do we do now? It’s not like I or their relatives can’t roll with my daughters, sisters, wives, and nieces or anything. How did any women learn to fight before you came along!!! I guess we'll have to one day figure it out. Until then women outside of that context have what Firas called the "angelic hearted" like yourself to help them.
4. Accusations
While unlikely in the context that most people are using in the comments (big...maybe with an “r” victim?) I have had a quasi similar issue before for a summer camp. I taught basic first-day jiu-jitsu 101 mount escapes (mixed gender kids class) and had a complaint from parents over the “sexual nature of the position” in which I then had 3 other jiu-jitsu guys see the technique and explain to them all that they’re all dumb@$$e$ who can’t fight.
5. “Oh I just won’t roll with him!”
Nobody cares.
6. “I’ll ask him to leave”
Please see point 3. End of the day you’re a glorified tutor who I pay. The beauty of this situation is I can throw a quarter and hit an MMA gym. You think way too highly of yourself. Just because something is appropriate to you does not make you the President of the Universe. Sorry to break it to you if nobody told you.
6. “It’s discrimination!”
To begin it is not the same as “refusing to roll with black people” as men and women share sexual acts with one another (which are intimate) and others feel as though many positions are quasi similar to them. Even though you said you would treat women the same way (which I doubt but we’ll go with what you said for argument’s sake) that makes it worse. Using the logic presented, what is the fundamental difference between what you’re doing in forcing people to do something they don’t want to and the boxing coach who you criticized for not “emptying your cup”? She has no desire to roll with men, these are not in line with her (or the man's) goals and because you have a set of beliefs (in this case cultural) that you are imposing them onto your student and are trying to ostracize them for not sharing your worldview. That quite frankly makes you an awful coach. Again let’s do one of your favorite debate tactics of going to the extreme. In ancient Greece men wrestled naked, you then were asked to remove your clothes and try to pin Nikolaos. You would be uncomfortable to roll naked with another man even though it’s “not sexual” or “intimate” in that culture. Now imagine some pretentious jack@$$ of an instructor started saying “well I’ll ask him to leave” blah, blah, blah. You are doing the same thing by imposing your cultural views onto others.
TLDR
Armchair Violence is pretentious and thinks the world revolves around him and his decrees.
@@STEWJO004 1. "between opposite sexes..." I already addressed this point at 4:39. Things are either intimate or they're not. When you do intimate things with the same sex, it just becomes gay intimate things. Either grappling is NOT intimate, or everyone that does grappling is pretty gay.
How many people believe something is irrelevant. It's an argumentum ad populum. If 99% of the world believes something stupid, it's still stupid.
2. This contradicts your 4th point. You JUST said that the people that think the positions are sexual are "all dumb@$$e$ who can’t fight."
Yeah, grappling LOOKS hilarious, but it's not actually a sexual act. We can all make jokes, and they're funny, but Icy Mike and everyone else in that room was totally aware that nothing was actually sexual about it. Anyone that ACTUALLY thinks it's sexual (instead of just joking about it) is coming from a place of ignorance.
3. If a woman needs a male relative to learn anything about fighting, that just validates my concerns that women won't be able to roll with enough diversity of talent to get good at anything.
Out of the couple dozen women that I've trained with, do you know how many of them had relatives that also did grappling? ZERO. If the rest of the population operated with your outlook, we would have virtually NO women in the sport.
"How did any women learn to fight before you came along!!!" Before people LIKE me came along? They mainly DIDN'T. THAT'S the problem! They've been marginalized in most formal combat systems throughout most of human history. Even today, they're numbers in combat sports are a fraction of what male numbers are. So, yes, that is exactly the problem.
4. Right. Anyone that complains is a "dumb@$$ who can’t fight." That's kind of my point. Any woman that levels an obviously false accusation while rolling will be absolutely laughed at and everyone present would be willing to testify against her. Just like how everyone that was knowledgeable immediately came to your defense, and the problem was quickly resolved. That's exactly my point.
5. Good.
6. "you’re a glorified tutor who I pay."
Nobody cares.
7. Ok, this one's a doozy, so I'm going to basically address it one sentence at a time.
A. Black people and white people can ALSO share sexual acts with one another. As can members of the same sex. I don't know if you knew that.
B. "others feel as though many positions are quasi similar to them." Those people are wrong. Their views are ignorant and don't matter. This is a discussion for people that actually know how grappling works. It's like walking into NASA and saying, "But what about all the flat-earthers?!?" What about them? They're stupid, and should either be educated or ignored.
C. The difference is that one of those things is an attempt to counteract pervasive bigotry so that students will improve faster and the sport will continue to grow, and the other is an incorrect and flawed coaching method that can lead to worsened performance. This isn't complicated.
D. First of all, yes. If my cultural beliefs are incompatible with that entire sport, then I should be excluded from it. If I am uncomfortable with nudity, then I don't belong in ancient Greece. Flip that around to see how much cultural differences matter. What if someone from ancient Greece came HERE and insisted on grappling naked? They would be thrown in PRISON. So, yes, cultural differences do matter. If you can't handle women, you don't belong in a sport that includes women, like BJJ.
Second of all, there is still a BIG difference between what you wear and whether you systematically discriminate against half of the world's population. It can be argued that one of those things only affects you. The other thing definitely affects other people. If you will only roll in a turtleneck sweater, fine. That's weird, but I don't care. If you refuse to interact with an entire race or sex, that's bigotry.
@@ArmchairViolence Sorry didn't see you respond. Allow me to deconstruct this reply:
1. Argumentum ad populum.
Didn’t argue "majority equals right", Plato, follow along now. I said you gave a poor analogy that a large portion of humans would actually find intimate. What is your objective proof to prove this is an appropriate act and they're wrong or "raised badly" other than your cultural bias?
2. Grappling is not intimate or everyone is a homosexual
Ironically you have engaged in a black and white fallacy. Also can’t help but notice you didn’t comment on techniques such as an “oil check” etc. but whatever. It is not gay or sexual but it has positions that would be considered a violation of personal space i.e. “intimate”. Sexual and intimate are not necessarily synonyms. I agree they are jokes (and funny ones at that) but why are the jokes being made in the first place? Because we all understand that certain positions "look funny" i.e. like a sexual act or involve being closer to generally private areas than normal circumstances would allow.
3. Women student relatives etc
Your personal anecdotes are not evidence but since we're bringing them into the discussion, again you are not familiar with what you are attempting to critique within its proper context. Family units are commonly in the double digits (for example my 1st wife has 19 siblings, my 2nd has 14, and my fiance (who was semi-pro btw) had10), guess what happens with all the children, nieces and nephews? They would all are forced to participate and they now have a plethora of diversity in training partners. This is basically what for example the Gracies did. Now when a woman wants to come to train, they just get directed to someone in this sea of people who have been training since they were children and are relatively competent at the basics while still having options for people like yourself. Ta-dah!!!
“They've been marginalized in most formal combat systems throughout most of human history. Even today, they're numbers in combat sports are a fraction of what male numbers are. So, yes, that is exactly the problem.”
Or and just hear me out here, most women don’t get into let alone seriously study combat systems lol? Again you had a “couple dozen” women curiosity what was the number of men? Also, what is the ratio of men who study combat systems to those who don't for that matter? Those women who were involved in combat systems generally did it in the way I described above. Either their family did it or they married someone who did it. You can see this throughout SE Asian systems like Silat all the time (or again someone like Rener Gracies's wife) not to mention countries like Turkey, Iran and Mongolia where wrestling is a national sport (think like how we as Americans know the basics of baseball even if we never played a day in our life the same is true for a double, single etc in these areas)
5. "Just like how everyone that was knowledgeable immediately came to your defense, and the problem was quickly resolved."
First off, that’s not how “rumors” work once they're out there it's very difficult to combat no matter what the circumstances were. Next, great…why put myself into the position, to begin with again?
6. “ Good.”
I agree, you were the one however saying it like this was some end all be all and the world was going to stop.
7. “Nobody cares”
Truth hurts, huh?
8. “If you can't handle women, you don't belong in a sport that includes women, like BJJ.
I thought women were “marginalized in combat sports for the majority human history” blah, blah, blah? Nobody said EVERYONE had to do it you however are trying to impose your worldviews onto others like God died and left you in charge.
9. Culture
So long story short you wouldn’t roll with Nikolaus naked, great, I'm glad we worked that out. How you feel uncomfortable with that idea is how others do to your suggestion. Not that complicated.
10. "That's bigotry"
Sigh, or and hear me out again some people are uncomfortable touching people they're not married or related to. Not "bigotry" just manners more along the lines of "chivalry" than "ewww women are gross and need to be either in the kitchen or their face in a pillow". Again not that complicated.
@@STEWJO004 2. Even though it is sort of a black and white argument, it is still justified argument. It is fair to argue that things that are intimate are always intimate regardless if the people doing it are of the same gender.
As a judoka. I don’t refuse to do it, but I also don’t like it , and would only do it if they ask . The main reason is because I just in general like going against bigger and or stronger opponents cause it forces me to get creative and actually improve and try new techniques , this is the same reason why I don’t like going against other male opponents that are way smaller than me either.
Basically, all your points are valid from a woman's perspective and from the perspective of making the atmosphere and the sport a "better place", and I agree with them on the level that you SHOULD (but not must) train with all kinds of people. I, personally, kick and punch, and roll with every natural demographic (I would only refuse certain individuals out of hygiene or threat to my health reasons, or people I think are a*holes for whatever reason), BUT I'm a firm believer that everyone has the right to refuse to train with other people without the need for explanation (btw. that, of course, includes you not wanting to train with Zahabi for him not wanting to roll with women).
Btw. you could argue whether grappling competition is fighting, but rolling in training certainly is NOT.
Personally for me i have religious reasons, so 🤷♂️.
Refusing to roll with Zahabi hurts no one, not even Zahabi. But Zahabi, a role model, refusing to roll with women hurts a whole class of humans (women) because people will take cue from him
@@Limemill I agree, it's not a good role model, and personally, I find it very silly of him and it does lower my opinion on Zahabi, and his attitude consequently means women in a Muslim environment won't have the chance to train self-defense with male training partners who have a realistic strength advantage, but I still say it is his right to refuse to role with people he doesn't want to role with.
@@angelsjoker8190Well, it's not just not letting them train for real-life scenarios, it's also solidifying their secondary role in Muslim society in general, I think. And now this idea is being imported into the West because Zahabi will refuse to roll with Wester women now, given where he trains and coaches, and therefore further impose this idea of second-rateness on a society that only got rid of it some 50-60 years ago or so. Another agenda here is that men cannot control their impulses - and are not supposed to - and that it's up to women and society to make sure men are not exposed to seduction (by hiding women, most notably) rather than teaching young men to control their impulses, which the absolute majority of men in the West achieve without issue (and so would Muslims, obviously, were they to deal with the matter seriously)
@@Limemill I 100% agree. It's completely stupid, but he has the right to be stupid. It's upon the rest of society to show that it's stupid, i.e. by not joining his gym.
There's a big difference between disagreeing with someone and them being wrong. It's not a zero sum game.
And what about women who don't want to roll with men? Do we have a double standard there? If all women classes exist (and they do) why not all men?
I personally will roll with anyone I trust, but I think calling someone out for their personal choices on what to do with their body is unhelpful.
I mentioned in the video that I have the same complaints about women not rolling with men.
Women only classes are a really weird thing to me. I understand they exist for business reasons but, from a purely martial arts/efficacy perspective, they strike me as bizarre.
@@ArmchairViolence they exist because some women have had terrifying experiences with men on top of them. Some men don't want to roll with women because they are terrified of the damage a false accusation can do to their lives. Some things in life can alter who you are at a deep level. People can be shaken to their core by trauma. People can have deep held beliefs that are completely different to yours and still 100% valid.
It's usually women that need to protect themselves from men, not the other way around.
@@kurtslavain usually isn't the same as always.
@@Jamoni1 if a man is trained to defend themselves against other trained men, they are automatically trained to defend against trained women.
My 16 year old daughter hated rolling with “30 year old nerds with beards” there were quite a few women in the class but she focused on American kickboxing
he's probably a predator
@@georgepappas45 I’m not sure about that
nah he went too far, super sus, psycho vibes@@anonymousbosch9265
Why? Did they do anything to her?
@@AZK91 no, but she was uncomfortable and that’s enough for me
In Islam, touching a woman, who is not your wife or mother or daughter or sister or aunt, is prohibited, with or without their permission. It's to protect the women and respect them, not to discriminate them. Muslima not allowed to touch men too, same with muslim.
But still, this is just for muslims. Non-muslims can do whatever they want. And muslims are just minority in BJJ community.
Is it still respectful if they don't like it and want you to stop? If you click over to Lady Gi's video, many of the comments are bashing her for being a Muslim who rolls with men. Doesn't seem very respectful to me. I think if you're trying to "protect" someone without their permission, then it's not protection. It's control and discrimination.
@@institches2750 Islam prohibits the touching of the opposite sex. What it doesn't do is tell you to disrespect those who choose to roll with the opposite sex. It is their choice and that's between them and their god. Just because some idiots choose to disrespect someone who rolls with the opposite sex does NOT mean the law by itself is disrespectful. That is incredibly flawed logic. Secondly, if you seriously believe choosing not to roll with the opposite sex is "controlling" that person, you need to re-evaluate either the way you think or the way you worded that sentence.
This is so true. I've grappled since I was a child, it's never been an intimate thing. I don't know if this is the case for everyone that grew up grappling, but once I was an adult and started doing actual intimate things, I had an issue for a few weeks where I mentally entered "grappling mode" which made said intimate things difficult, until I built up enough experince in the latter to separate the two. I guess, theoretically, if you're already an adult with a long history of intimacy and just starting out with grappling/fighting there might be a small period of time where you accidentally go into the wrong "intimacy" headspace as you grapple, but if you have any substantial amount of grappling experience it just shouldn't happen.
If it was the other way around, women dont want to roll wit men, nobody will give a crap. Besides, people can refuse to roll with anybody that they dont wany. Its rheir choice. Not rolling with women wont hinder your bjj training anyway
Thank you for saying it, it's such a ridiculous argument..."suck it up", f**k you 😂 I pay to be there I can roll with whoever I want and I know someone can refuse to roll with me I'm not gonna go gome and cry about it
I only started BJJ a few months ago but I don't roll with women because I don't wanna be rubbed and wrapped around them in weird positions, especially when they wear tight thin clothes. It's not the same thing as rolling with men, just like seeing guys naked in a locker room is not the same as if you were in the girls' (if you're straight). I don't mind sparring girls in Muay Thai because it's different. Everyone should do what they want about that issue.
You have to respect the personal choice of those men
I don't have to respect a damn thing.
@@connormainwaring8866 settle down connor
@@babarasul680 Yes sir.
@@connormainwaring8866 good man
On the contrary, my goodman, I don't have to respect a gorydamned thing.
1- You can't force a man to do what he does not want , they have religious and personal reasons why they don't want to , no one blames women for murdering children in their womb.
2-again this isn't our issue , we aren't gonna sacrfise our own choices , freedoms and rights for the convience of a woman .
3-
"Not rolling with women doesn't establish equality becaise women aren't getting the same quality of training as men"
This is the third entitled and selfish reason , why should anyone have to be pressured or feel insecure for not wanting to do something, Did god order me to do it ?
4-"it reinforced the idea grappling is intimate"
Physical contact and having a women rolling all over you and you are rolling all her is the problem here .
5- no one ever said grappling is intimate
Rolling over a guy , sleeping next to a guy are not the same as women
6- we all agree black , white , green ,blue people are all the same , women and men are not the same , they are complety different where as race is minor to non existant diffrences and no one has religious reasons not to roll with black people
Why we refuse to roll with women:
Religious reasons , touching other women who are not related to you .
In addition to the weird and awkward positions grappling gets you into , no one wants that with women
Religions and ideologies have no place in the gym, especially if they condone sexist behaviors. Then they have no place anywhere.
My biggest concern when rolling with women is not to hurt them. The difference in strength is profound. Just need to remember to dial it down a lot. It seems like the younger kids 16+ are the most problematic, they tend to be very competitive and less aware about the risk of injury.
Thoughtful and precise, thanks!
I generally avoid rolling with women, children and elderly people etc, not cause of anything you mentioned in the video " which is a pretty weird perspective I didn't know anyone saw that way lol" but because of the way my academy culture is. Some of my professors are so against rolling hard in any way with these groups of people that I feel like under their supervision I have to pretty much let anyone who isn't a strong young man do what ever they want. Not saying that its OK to be a mat bully and hurt less capable training partners but I don't like the idea of just letting anyone win, I want someone to know if they pull a move off against me it was legit and not just because I let them.
It's a fine edge to walk, when you are much bigger/stronger then your training partner, but it can be done. When I roll with women, or smaller guys, I try to prompt myself to do as perfect technique as possible with as little strength as possible. If I pass their guard cause I had good technique, we both learned something. If I pass their guard cause I am twice their size, and can just muscle through most of their defense, neither of us has fun, or learns anything from that.
Firas: I'm too impure roll with women
Armchair Violence: not rolling with women is HELLA GAY
this is the top tier content I'm here for
I mean, your sexual orientation will dictate whether you feel aroused or not depending on the sexes. If I hug a man, I would feel no arousal at all, but if I hug a woman, I might feel aroused and I'm sure I'm not in a minority here. doesn't mean hugs are HELLA GAY.
@@smashmusique you shouldn't be feeling arousal at all when you're in an MMA gym. You're there to train, not fuck.
lol Muslims are not known to be gays, nope, you guys are. Well, we can't even watch your movie or entertainment anymore 7 out of 10 characters in netflix are gays. But aren't Muslim known to be a very intolerant traditional man? with clear gender role and masculinity culture? seeing you coming from a very gay culture calling Firas gay is just pathetic.
@@deathcador there's gay Muslims my man. Just like how there's gay Christians
@@dcard228 you say? lol now you say like that but when you want to draw on how intolerance and not progressive Muslims are you will complain on bad treatment of Muslim toward gays. The point are, you guys love to point out how Khabib or Firas or other Muslims as gay, while you are the gayest community ever, gay to its very core, while those guys are the man's man they look after their wife and family, have jealousy toward their women, not a kind of culture that call their women whore and display them to public for peoples to watch and they are proud or even horny when peoples eyes feasting over their women. Those Muslims are real men, humble yourselves and learn something from them for real. So you should reallystop calling people gay if you are coming from a gay town.
At my old gym the protocol we had when it came to rolling with women was to use nothing but pure technique. You couldn't use any strength, athleticism, or explosive movements.
This has always been my approach. It has made for some very technical and injury free rolls.
@@maxmccullough8548 you sound super knowledgeable dude. Must be a treat having you around.
@@dacedebeer2697 Injury free rolls. That sounds like a sausage roll to me.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 you clearly never heard of spring rolls then.
@@dacedebeer2697 Those ones are also Injury free. Unless you buy them from a Chinese restaurant in Lower Manhattan.
8:09 then women-only gyms should be closed too
I mean are they self-defense oriented?
@@RohanKumar-ci9sl I think most of them are not.
@@redactedcanceledcensored6890 I guess if they aren't heavily self-defense oriented its ok to have women only gyms
@@RohanKumar-ci9sl still discrimination though...
@@redactedcanceledcensored6890 are there no men only gyms?
Given the me too movement and his religion, I support his decision.
I would roll with women, but I understand why a man wouldn’t and support it.
Some things are far more important than BJJ.
In judo we are taught that there are no men and women. Only judoka. Yes we may pic more size and skill appropriate partners for the females but we do the same for basically anyone who is below brown belt.
There is no objective, inherent misogyny in what Firas says. Yeah, if a man gets aroused rolling with a woman, it being awkward doesn't make it any less, unfortunately, natural. Close touch between men and women can always be interpreted by the body as a sexual stimulus. It is absolutely the responsibility of a man to be more than a sexual stimuli receiver, and I think it represents a great deal of self reflection for them to realize that you know what? Rolling with women doesn't work for me, I don't want to make them feel awkward or be put in an awkward position.
A middle ground I will concede with you and agree on though, if I am not comfortable with rolling with women, I shouldn't be having a mixed class, I could set up a men's only gym or find one for myself, and that you have every right to dictate how your class runs and making sure women feel great there.
I 1000% agree with you in this video!! Well said buddy 👍
"But refusing to roll with an entire demographic of people is going to require an exceptionally good explanation" No, it requires the most simple and perfectly reasonable explanation: Lawsuits.
Was in co-ed martial arts most of my life, never would I ever under any circumstance roll with a woman in 2023. That is the worst idea a man can put forth to other men: "Just do it you biggot"
Having a man's face planted in a woman's behind or between her thighs and vice versa is the definition of physical intimacy. Many men in Firas' comment section make jokes about choosing to roll for the same reason Firas doesn't: being sexually playful with a woman. I just don't see a way around it unless you're asexual or something.
Unless that woman is not your type
If you're practicing a martial art with a partner and being physically close with them makes you think sexually, that's just you making it weird and creepy. Do you think gay wrestlers and BJJ players also have to grapple with their sexual urges? I doubt it. It's not difficult to distinguish different contexts of physical intimacy; i.e. in the bedroom vs. crowded on public transit vs. clinching up in a fight.
These people are just in denial. They are terrified of women and their own masculinity basically so they haven't got the courage to admit they're sexual beings. I'm tired of the Feminist mental gymnastics. I don't let anyone tell me I shouldn't feel sexually aroused when an attractive women wraps her legs round me and I don't let anyone tell me I shouldn't feel unpleasant sexual tension when an ugly woman does it. I'm a man with a penis that works properly and I'm supposed to feel these things.
@@wynsonrao5177 I do think gay men who grapple with attractive men get sexual feelings yes. I think you're a r*tard if you don't think that's the case.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 Bro, if your are getting aroused in a fight, you are weird. This isn't even a feminist point.
Also I imagine you consider rolling with men to be sexual too.
1) flawed logic. Even in mixed settings men would (hopefully) not use 100% force against women (or men for that matter) in training so it's still not a perfect recreation of a real life scenario. It remains a mere simulation. Women will never truly "feel" what it's like to be attacked by a man who is hellbent on hurting them and is using 100% of his power in a gym setting. Not that it's necessary anyway. You don't need to roll with a 400lb Sumo wrestler in order to respond effectively in the event of such a man attacking you on the street. Just like you don't have to be attacked with a sharp knife in training in order to learn how to deal with the threat of knife attacks. You don't have to be shot at with live ammo in order to learn how to evade gun fire effectively etc etc ..you get the point🤦🏾♂️ Training is just that: training. It will never be a 100% replication of reality because there are many variables that cannot be accurately accounted for in a gym..So since training, whether with a male or female, is a mere simulation of real life events, and since even in mixed training men will not be going 100% for obvious reasons, what difference does it really make whether they roll with men or women?
2) Firas has not established a "gym culture that discourages men and women from rolling with each other". He merely stated a personal preference and never indicated that he enforces this as a general policy. In fact, he stated that he does not tell other ppl what to do in that regard and, in fact, men and women do roll with one another at TriStar. You simply made up an imaginary scenario to argue against a point which was never made in the first place.
3) "it doesn't feel hilarious/intimate". You state this as if it's objective truth when it's purely an appeal to subjectivity. How rolling with a woman feels like to you is not a strong argument from a logical perspective.
The only decent argument against Firas' position is that women are a minority in most gyms so if there was a general culture of segregation between the genders then women would have less training partners available. However, that is likely not to happen since such a culture does not exist in most gyms.
1. Men can, and have, gone 100% against women. I have personally gone 100% against multiple women for the express purpose of showing her the physical difference. You can use full strength without hurting people. I don't know why you think it would never happen.
Even if men didn't go 100%, they would still be much larger and be able to go much harder than another woman (on average).
And, yeah, you kind of do need experience going against huge people if you expect to beat one in a fight. If I had only gone against people my size, someone that's 300lbs would shut me down immediately, because dealing with that weight DOES take practice.
While training is never "perfectly realistic," this would be CLOSER to realism, which IS important. Training with a rubber knife is WAY better knife defense training than holding an imaginary knife. Training with fake firearms than can register hits is better training than just pretending. That's why the military spends millions of dollars setting up realistic battle simulations. Getting closer to reality IS important (as long as you're training safely).
2. I never said that he definitely created that kind of culture. I merely said that coaches having that attitude makes it possible. A culture of segregation won't happen unless the coach allows it to.
3. It will not feel intimate to the VAST majority of people. Especially once they get used to it. Just because it's a subjective perspective doesn't mean it isn't widely true. If I say, "getting hit with pepper spray is bad" would you pipe in with "But some people are masochists and would totally love pepper spray!!"?? Just because there's a small handful of weirdos in the world doesn't mean that everything is 100% subjective, and no statements can ever be made. Anyone that rolls with women for a decent length of time and still thinks of it as intimate is an outlier. I've known exactly ONE person like that, and he was both autistic and a weirdo. His brain did not work like a normal person's.
4. In most gyms, the coaches roll with women. It's definitely not a huge problem at the moment, but it's still an attitude that should be discouraged. If a store refuses to serve black people, would we not care because most other stores DO serve black people? Or would we stamp out racism wherever it rears it's ugly head?
These kinds of problems only become pervasive when we tolerate them and allow them to spread. I'm trying to make sure that this attitude of not rolling with women doesn't spread any further.
@@ArmchairViolence
On the contrary I try and spread a culture where everyone is free to choose what to do with their body.
It's not written anywhere you have to train and roll with anybody. You can turn down any roll with anybody for any reason. Period.
Having a body to manipulate is a privilege, not a right.
Your takes are fair, reasonable, and in good faith, which is a rare combination! Super glad I found your channel.
As somebody who trained with men (I'm a woman) I can definitely say it improved my fighting skills and confidence, and this saved my life or at least my safety in at least three situations because I didn't freeze. Am I going to decimate a man? No. But practicing with trained fighters prepares you for an aggressive man in real life like nothing else can. If the first blow you take from a man is a high stakes situation with your safety on the line, you're cooked. At that time, you need to be able to shake it off and keep your eyes on options instead. This is just not possible no matter how much you practice with women. I could defeat all the woman in our class, but it didn't begin like that. There were two of us. Her parents refused to allow her to train with men. Within a matter of months, I could trounce her without question. She never ever defeated me after that. So even if fighting women, it is important to train with men. Not like world champions, but not exactly couch potatores or newbies either. Sure, tell them to be careful, but it must be a challenge.
But it also helped them men. I don't think men have a realistic idea of just how much strength they can use against a woman without risking serious damage and a future in prison. Sparring with women gives them an opportunity to understand with women who are trained to take hits. But this is either a cultural or an internet generation thing. I trained in the 80s and 90s. There was no such thing as women can't fight men, etc. If you even see the kung-fu classics, etc - they will have women fighters in them. Yeah, we know men are stronger, but these days, it is like the bottom line - who is tronger? oaky done. The focus is more on winning/losing rather than training. I often trained with this guy who had loose technique and wanted to improve efficiency. I wanted to learn to fight guys. We both helped each other considerably. Training isn't war, like it seems to be considered these days. You can have a productive session with somebody weaker.
this video has been a long time coming. thanks for crushing this topic in a great way AV!
Well since there are women's only classes why would it be wrong if we men dont want to roll with women.
Why it is ok in a way and not the other ?
If a woman says "I don't wanna roll with men", we have no problem. But if a man says it, He'S In ThE WrOnG He ShoUld RolL WitH WoMeN!1!1!!
I understand where you're coming from. Especially considering that modern social politics are way too pervasive in today's climate. But this is definitely an issue where the dude, as a coach, is wrong.
@@novelphantasm376 Why is he wrong? Is it not wrong to force him to something he does not feel comfortable with?
Would it be wrong to open a male only gym, or a female only gym? - If so, why?
And if you where a coach, would it be wrong to say 'I only train women', or 'I only train men'? If so - why?
He is not excluding women from his space and he is sharing his knowledge with them, so he is clearly not against women, this is for his own personal reasons. So, why is he in the wrong exactly?
@darkraft1020 First, I want to say, well put together and respectful way to start a discussion; I don't see that often. And as for why I believe him to be wrong in the philosophy of not rolling with women simply comes from infective training due to personal factors.
For the same reason women wouldn't want to roll with men; it is counterintuitive to the goal they set out to do. And I do have to admit, I have a problem with the why that he used. I could understand being attracted to who you're rolling with; I believe fighting to be a form of intimacy no matter who you do it with. But not a romantic intimacy, and that were he loses me in his argument. It's my same perspective on female friends (as a male myself). You shouldn't hide your attraction, but that doesn't mean you have to act on it either. An example, though, not exactly direct; I have a friend who is gay. He is never creepy around me, and even though he has some level of attraction towards me, I would have no problem rolling with him or him me.
If you're a coach, it's kind of a requirement that you put aside some personal things for the pure purpose of teaching martial arts. But that's not to say he doesn't have the freedom to say what he wants, I am a libertarian after all. And if he wished to open an men's only school, then he would be fully within that right, though I don't believe in either men's only or women's only school when it comes to martial arts; you should learn how to fight everybody in every situation if possible to become a better fighter.
But he hasn't done that. Women still go to his classes only to realize that the person they probably most want to roll with doesn't want to do it over a personal reason. I do agree with the video in that once the coach has a mentality. It's a lot easier for other students to pick up that mentality. In this instance, he is the shepherd that must stand above the sheep. And if he doesn't guide them to the best of his ability, then some of them might die when they wander from the herd.
But that's enough out of me. Sorry if this is a little disjointed, I just woke up lol.
@@novelphantasm376amazing is the white hypocrite in writing essays to justify his hypocrisy. a bunch of words to say you are an intolerant misandrist bigot who pushes tolerance but not really
As a guy with a gf who's at college miles away for a few years, I don't roll with women in part because of that. I also don't roll with them unless they are fully grown adults because it's very awkward having some female near my age (17) start giggling during the entire roll (actually happened, was insanely awkward.)
It's also not fun when I slam almost every female in my gym as a one stripe white belt. The only time I will roll with a woman is if they need practical self defense training against a 17 year old athletic male.
I dont roll with women out of self defense, cus my wife would kill me otherwise
Roll with wife
I'm quite a big dude, so I don't like rolling with women/smaller men personally, cause it always feels like I am either giving them an easy win, or using too much strength. Maybe it's a skill issue on my end, I dunno. So I usually don't go up to women/smaller men to roll, but if one of them approaches me, or we are the last two left, or whatever, then I do it of course.
I'm more than happy to roll with women, as a smaller guy it's one of the only times I have any chance of winning...
GREAT video & extremely Useful information 💁♀️ 👍
Thanks so much!
💖🙏💞
you spelt useless wrong
watched all your videos.... we need more on self defense and or reactions to other self defense system moves haha. You got a big fan here and follower now. KEEP UPLOADING MAN !!
I don't really know how to say this in a nice way so I'll just say it how it is. You can not trust a woman who is physically repulsed by a man to not lie to the instructor about misconduct so she doesn't have to deal with him anymore. Women can get men kicked out of their local fitness gyms just or glancing at them for a few seconds and this isn't uncommon. Why should anyone believe these problems don't exist in BJJ? This isn't an improbable occurrence. It's a problem people are not allowed to acknowledge. I know this because it's happened to me personally. Firas Zahabi knows it's a real possibility too. He's also a Muslim and because of that he has a degree of gender realism. You are a Feminist who has bunch of theories that look good on paper. Sorry pal you're wrong on this one.
Because we must coddle our little angles and give everything we have to these sweet innocent beings who just want to spar with us.
I think it is intimate but not sexual. Awesome video and great points!
I remember when i had my first mma class and after us there was a bjj class, i wanted to watch and the head coach invited me in. His daughter was rolling and i was impressed by her moves and just said "wow" to which he responded "You're watching too much collegue" at the moment i didn't quite get what he was saying but i realized afterwards that this guy thinks im checking his daughter out when in reality i was legit impressed by her skills and it felt awkward, if i was training bjj i wouldn't have wanted to roll with her the next class. Now i don't know he might have had problem with me sitting and observing for too long cause he wants money and is not very keen on giving stuff for free even if it is just watching, but im 95% sure it was because of his daughter.
Not my problem. I rather a woman call me sexist than call me a creepy groping rapist. That's why there are coaches. When it's uneven someone is gonna end up with a coach or teacher. That falls on those mens shoulders. This is why I don't coach and would never be one. She can talk to her teachers and coaches and ask them if they have a women's only class or if they have any other female students and ask which days they come to train. She can then meet this woman on that day; if they can't go to the gym on the same day. They can meet outside of the gym like us guys and roll with each other. Regardless of why I choose not to roll with women it's my choice and it's my body. I don't understand why we must be penalized for protecting ourselves and our reputation. Again I rather a woman call me sexist than call me a creepy groping rapist 🤷🏽♂️ IJS
At first I didn't see it your way
But you make alot of valid points
Relax man Firas Zahani isn’t about to change the culture. He doesn’t feel comfortable so let him be.
I’m sure a lot of guys will be happy to roll with your girlfriend, don’t worry man
Wow, way to be vaguely threatening and an absolute creep toward a woman you don't know or care about, just because she's dating someone you disagree with.
Next are you gonna talk about how cute his kids are? Ask where they go to school?
Amazing take. Love the content!
With the whole #metoo I can understand not wanting to train with women. I’m not trying to catch a case from some woman that has a chip on her shoulder.
your opinion....that's the take away i got from this. I think you need to not shame someone who is openly admitting that he doesn't roll with women because it becomes improper for him. How many creepy dudes never do that?
100% the reason I want to train with men is so I know my technique will work when a man attacks me. As a previous rugby play I’m not necessarily worried about an attack by a women. Getting snubbed by men in class is frustrating, getting throttle and smashed is also frustrating. Some guys roll way too light and give in which is more appreciated than getting injured by them but not helpful in learning if I’ve mastered the technique. Almost none of the men I roll with ask me to roll. I almost always have to approach them. And as a white belt if I even get close to submitting a dude with a higher belt and a beta ego they’ll tried to purposefully injury me. Vs the women’s only class I was beating the blue belt, their lack of press and overall skill was disappointing. Don’t get me wrong smaller purple and blue belt women have kicked my ass on numerous occasions. So based on All the above and more it’s challenging getting ladies and keeping them in this sport. Also because there are so few women in this sport we don’t have competitors, at my last competition I had 1 competitor vs my male equivalent classmates got 7, 2 other tournaments I signed up for I had no competitors but my male classmates had 3-10. So the guys get more training partners and more competition experience than any female in the sport. I will say though most of the higher belt guys in the class are good dudes and good training partners. Luckily only a few sour apples. The down side for the guys not training with women is not learning how to grapple a smaller opponent safely, what if your at a party and a small women get bilingual and irate. Are you going to cave her skull in and go to jail, or safely control her until she calms down?! One of my males training partners recently complained to me about getting smashed by a guy 2x his size and I told him that how I feel half of every class.
accountability is a woman’s kryptonite summed up in your post. you sound like a whiny child who wants an ice cream but also doesn’t want an ice cream. sorry princess you can’t get spoiled in every which way you desire. go too hard she gets mad go too light she gets mad don’t want to play with her she gets mad get hard she gets mad. stop fukking rolling with men in the first place thinking it’s going to help you if a man were to attack you irl in the first place!
I do roll with women and spar in kickboxing and mma, I definitely don’t find it intimate but it definitely feels weird.
But I think other the stigma of it all is the cause, I think both people go into thinking “I know it’s not sexual, but do they ? Are they going to misinterpret my actions”
I think a lot of men don’t want to confront that inner awkwardness and internal dialogue so they just avoid it.
You're not supposed to be ok with hitting women and you're not supposed to be in such close physical contact to a woman you're not f*cking. It's not rocket science. The culture of martial arts in the west is the problem not peoples instincts.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 yikes
Hey thanks so much for the mention! I agree with everything you said in your video. It’s disappointing when people hyper-sexualize choking your training partners out. It’s pathetic.
Well, thank you for making the video!
Yeah, whenever someone talks about grappling being sexual my immediate thought is "this person has never grappled."
I'm super glad you liked the video! Also, I'm impressed that you got a logo, intro music, and good production value so soon after starting. Very jealous of your work ethic! 😅
@Micheal Sudan I actually don’t. Men needs to stop seeing women as sex objects. It’s a sport for crying out loud. I also don’t appreciate being labeled as someone who “should know”.
@Micheal Sudan I'm not going to debate with you here. You do you and I'll do me. I don't need a man telling me what to do thank you very much.
@@LadyGiBrazilianJiuJitsu And Coach Firus doesn’t need you or this guy telling him what to do. If he doesn’t want to roll with women for whatever reason that’s his business and his body. Stop trying to force your irreligious ideas down a religious Coach who wants to practice his faith. His religious practice to him is greater than this “sport” you speak of.
@@LadyGiBrazilianJiuJitsu the prophet pbuh was a man. How do you solve that conundrum of following a male prophet who literally came to "tell you what to do"? Looking forward to seeing the mental gymnastics that are about to ensue 👍🏾
You make lots of good points that made me question some of my opinions but you're wrong on this one. My 21 year ols daughter does BJJ and traditional Ju-Jitsu and she gets along just fine without rolling with guys.
Another problem that relates to this is people who take rolling/live training too personally.
I 100% agree - glad I found you - I was annoyed with his pow and I didn't quite find the words to explain it - these are the words :-D
You don't seem to get the point like the lemming on this video. Firas never tells his students to avoid grappling with women, it's just his own personal decision/opinion
@@outlawfly664 yes, I'm probably a lemming. You have shown me the folly of my ways. Thank you for sharing your insights outlawfly...
@@fredeuhrbrand3789 You're welcome
Lmaoo so according to firas logic should I just not train bjj since I’m bi, and no matter who I role with it will be “impure” 😂😂
Thank you!
if you shouldnt roll with the gender youre attracted to then by that logic me, a bisexual, couldnt roll with anyone lmao. its only weird and intimate if u make it weird
My thoughts exactly.
Yeah and sometimes the people that make it weird are not in fact men but women. Ever consider that one? Every consider the fact that a female could get uncomfortable enough with a man to launch a complaint against him that has something to do with her personal issues and not actually anything he's doing wrong? Ever consider the fact that sexually awkward women exist that create problems for men? Or is it only men who are capable of inappropriate behaviour at a BJJ gyms? Perhaps I didn't get the memo.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 has this happened to you?
@@HouriSamatsu Yep. I tapped out a purple belt female on my second day training in a BJJ gym. I wasn't using all my strength but I was going harder than I would with a female who was a beginner like myself at the time. She was weird and salty to me ever since. Couple months goes by she complains about me to the owner. Don't know what she said but she lied to him about something because I got a text from the him telling me not to come back.
Well, thats actually true. At the absolute least you should be telling everyone you are about to spar that you are in fact bi so they can make the choice as to whether or not they want to roll with you. If this whole 'respect our sexual preferences' thing is a real thing, then you absolutely have a duty to not attend rolling sessions or tell everyone they are a potential sexual attraction partner for you before they roll.
“If you’re aroused when someone is trying to rip your arm out of the socket…you’re special” friggin’ got me lol
You're also a "special man" if you let a woman rip your arms out of your socket.
As a gym owner Firas holds the right to refuse service, especially when the reason is based in rational and logic
"I lack self control so I have to constantly refer to a book that tells me not to rape people" ah yes.. rational and logic..
@@St1cKnGoJuGgAlO You don't have a point
@@Account2129 my point is that nothing he said was rational and if you think it was then you are a danger to society.
@@St1cKnGoJuGgAlO Like I said
My thing is what if I don't view it as intimate inherently but at the same time I can't keep my stick soft when I grapple them. I don't want it to happen but maybe I'm a pervert. Should I quit jiu jitsu
It's as simple as "Would you judge a woman for refusing to roll with men?" No ? then you shouldn't judge Firas for refusing to roll with women
He literally says that he would in the video. A true "hardline egalitarian."
When you are rolling with a girl and she doesn't tap out when she should and you don't know if she's really stubborn or getting off... Anyway, you don't have the whole day.
Well said!
I stopped rolling with women because the child support is starting to get expensive.
Amen
Hahaaa :) bingeworthy. Good spoken content! Genuinely interesting to observe his expression of his mma interest. A lot of clever quotes :3
Jeeeesus, the refusing to roll with black people example hit me hard
Some men will get aroused when grappling with women, especially if there is a big difference in their abilities and it's basically "easy" for them. It's automatic, not something that you can switch off. You can't control your emotions and thoughts, you only can regulate emotions and control your behaviour. Getting aroused doesn't mean doing anything sexual to the other person. But it can mean feeling bad about yourself or for your partner, that you get into situations when you get aroused by other people, that you're practically hugging with. And for the sake of the slippery slope argument of excluding all women, because some men don't want to grapple with them, you literally propose excluding all men that have that problem. You call that egalitarian, but for me, you're completely excluding a group of people for the sake of the potential risk of excluding another. I only mentioned the part about men not wanting to grapple with women, but the other side exists too, women who for certain reasons don't want to grapple with men. You, in the "egalitarian" thinking, propose to exclude all of them for the sake of, again the slippery slope argument.
So I see a lot of people saying they wouldn't roll with a girl because they're afraid of getting a false accusation. A few years ago, I was at a karate camp and circumstances ended up with me being alone with a kid I've known for years. This kid made a false accusation against me. Police were called, I got kicked out of the camp and my karate school. Kid eventually recanted and the investigation found I done nothing wrong but the damage was done. Now I'm at a bjj school. There's a kids (teens), I make sure I'm never alone with them, but I still roll with them. Many prefer to roll with me because I used to teach karate to kids and teens so I can "go hard" with them without hurting them. Some will even come up to me to ask me questions, which I then remind them that they should probably ask the black belt instructor rather than me, a blue belt who isn't that good. As to females, we have females and I've rolled with all of them. I'm also gay so they aren't attractive to me at all. There are several guys that I think are attractive, some really attractive and when we spar all I can think about is, let's make this day not be the day I die. After class, we'll all just change in the same room since we aren't big enough to have several changing rooms. All I can think about after class while everyone is getting changed and taking off shirts and whatnot is, holy crap I'm tired. If you aren't a sex fiend, you can roll with people that you find attractive without getting aroused because nothing says sexy like someone's sweat landing in your mouth.
"Nothing says sexy like someone's sweat landing in your mouth."
You said it!
@@institches2750 after awhile, you don't even react. Do busy trying not to get crushed.
you got falsely accused and you are gay. you have 2 buffs. most people wouldnt say you are discriminating women for avoiding them
It's not about being a sex fiend. Biology plays a part. To dismiss it and not take that into consideration shows a lack of self awareness. Some people are self aware enough that they don't want to be put in any situation that could potentially be detrimental to them. That's not being offensive or discriminatory. That's being smart and disciplined. Everyone should be able to put down boundaries for themselves. If a woman said she only wanted to roll with women noone would bat an eye. What's the difference then if a man says that?
@@aishaarshadalam3412 You have to be a bit of a sex fiend to find certain situations to be sexual.
"If a woman said she only wanted to roll with women noone would bat an eye. "
I would call her out for ruining her training chances.
you have your morals, we have ours.
Thank you for putting this out there. Dudes need to get over their hang ups. Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to roll with everyone you meet.
Some men have testosterone. I'm sorry that you can't relate to this
Why do only dudes need to get over their hangups? Do women never have hangups? Are women never sexually awkward? Do women never lie or misinterpret things that happen during a roll? These women creatures seem to be almost God like in their perfection. I hardly ever hear a bad word said about them.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 Women do the same things but the video is about a guy. So ofc commenters gonna focus on guys.
I’m not here to yuck anyone’s yum, but violence isn’t flirting, nor is it foreplay….Simulated or not. Sexualized violence has no place in a class room (which is what a dojo or combat sports gym is) and if I had a student or instructor that worked for me that was getting aroused by the training or feared the temptation of getting aroused, then they have issues that need to be addressed elsewhere by more qualified people not at my dojo.
This topic is currently pickling my brain, as a newbie to bjj, I felt a little unsure about rolling with women so I discussed it with my girlfriend. She felt unsure too, so I feel like out of respect for her I don't, even though it's starting to seem less of a problem to me.
I feel like this is a point you missed, in order for me to roll with women I would have to care more about the womans bjj experience than I do about my partners feelings. Additionally she might change her mind later, if I just ignore her feelings and do it anyway she may not 🤷🏻♂️ I think respect for your relationship should be placed above a sport.
this is clearly a cultural thing.
This doesn't discredit the spirit of the argument but, rolling and sparring are definitely "intimate." You should probably look up the definition. Its pretty risky to roll with a complete stranger whereas shaking someone's hand is not.
I'm scared of rolling with women because I don't want a false accusation.
Rolling with women in bjj as in life is very high risk versus low to no reward. Just dont. Oh and before the manginas and hose ask who hurt you, ive been with my wife for 42 years and observed females for 60 so fu.
Even settings aside all the morals (which I agree with), rolling with women has improved my BJJ game. It's forced me to learn how to be more dynamic, technical, mindful, and highlighted where I was relying on pressure and strength. Oddly enough, learning to be more light and dynamic have helped me roll against opponents which were much larger than me, where relying on pressure is a bad strategy.
Yupp.
And women cant brute force their way out of techniques. So it is the PERFECT time to realy focus on being technical.
Some dude who can benchprech 160 kilos can just refuse to budge even when Im doing the right thing.
I love rolling with women. Same as I like to spar in strikeong with newer students. I can try that cool spinning kick that I cant seem to land (yet) on ppl my own level