How To Train With Women: What Guys Need To Do For Better Rolls & Smarter Jiu-Jitsu
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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Men & Women are all even on the mat- Or are they? BJJ is a male dominated sport and women who succeed and make their way through the ranks often survive a career of mistreatment and often neglect. The combative culture of Jiu-Jitsu doesn't factor in how to treat women during rolling rounds.
JT & Joey walk you through how you can take the pressure down, move more and still get a good roll in for everyone involved. Not working your A-Game, training escapes and working on new positions is key to developing and learning. Being able to roll with anyone, any size or gender is important for BJJ to grow and for men and women to both enjoy training.
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I personally just roll like they are a guy. I’ve never felt awkward about it. I believe in equality and the women I roll with usually
Hey guys! I’ve trained in boxing, wrestling and bjj for almost 15 years now. Times have definitely changed, guys used to be a lot more aggressive towards me 10 years ago. I’ve changed the way I roll and I approach each partner with softness and respect and I have them meet me there and from that point I apply more and more pressure until we find a challenging balance for both parties.
It’s definitely hard to roll with men with a lot of ego, (usually new members from other schools) but I usually let them win and let them do whatever they want. I’ve suffered enough injuries in my life to know what’s good for me and what’s not.
I think girls battle with having to show how tough they are so they try to put up a fight, but I’ve been giving a small women’s class and I notice they relax and learn so well when they have less pressure to have to prove themselves.
I think guys should be able to help girls develop confidence and trust on the mat. Girls are super flexible, they can get positions most guys can’t and that’s a whole other level of bjj that some guys will never attain. I definitely believe women can teach men a lot in bjj and in general how to develop finess and flow.
Cheers guys love the podcast and enjoy your input on so many topics.
Pura vida
From Costa Rica xox
Thanks for giving us your perspective. We just wanted to open up the discussion more as some of the women in the Bulletproof community had brought this up as a talking point. We just wanted to try to give some guidance.
@@bulletproofforbjj I was so stoked to see you guys talk about this stuff!! I’ve been watching all your videos, and it really helps me cope through some of the competition side of bjj and the every day life of a grappler. Thanks for including us girls!
@@stephanyalvarez9499my wife and I joined a BJJ gym together. I got deployed and couldn't train thanks to covid restrictions but she was able to go four days a week. When I got back she had a couple extra stripes on her belt and I could instantly feel the increased knowledge she acquired. Now she is a blue belt. She is only 5 feet tall, and with her shorter legs along with her great leg strength she can hold your head down and choke you with her leg while going for an arm bar. My longer legs make it more difficult to try to pull off the same thing. I'm proud of her. Now I just need to learn more and try not to fall too far behind.
One of my instructors is a much smaller woman and I have learned so many tricks from her that surprisingly still works as a 6'1" 290lbs blue belt rolling with some even bigger guys.
I have picked up several position/technique details from some experienced women that have improved my control/technique execution that big and strong people dont typically pay attention to.
I have also experienced the frustration that comes with rolling with super flexible women and men without hurting them (due to weight difference) and they have definitely taken advantage of the size mismatch and sneak in/out of places I would never be able to do.
The easiest approach is to just play defense for a bit. See if they can pass your guard. See if they can get into mount. See if they can get you in tight submissions and if you can escape. Then build off that. I always find sharpening your defense is a great way to let a smaller opponent and get to know each other a bit while avoiding smashing someone
Sounds like on way to do it.
My wife and I both roll. It is very helpful to build relationships in the gym. There is kind of a unspoken code of conduct. I'm a bigger guy. My wife is 5'2''
And always start role with women telling them 'I will match your pace and energy'. Good mental note to them that you are trying to be aware and adjust. And good mental note for yourself to tone it the 'F' down.
We hope that in future you don't have to discipline other guys for lack of control.
@@bulletproofforbjj Rare. But happens. This podcast was great. Appreciate you dudes starting this convo.
That's a really cringe attitude.
Rolling is about improving, not punishing others. And your desire to abuse it is nothing but a desire to dominate others.
@@MrCmon113my desire is a safe rolling environment. When a 170 lb dude treats a 130 lb woman as a crash test dummy, you have to calm him down. Fresh white belt guys with something to prove need to be broken sometimes to become safe. If you let the be wild they WILL hurt someone. It's only a matter of time.
That's not a need to dominate. That's a need to protect the training environment.
Blue belt female here, heavier than many of the dudes in my club. I have more than 30kgs on our smallest female, and we train together multiple days a week. Differences in weight can be overcome with control and technique.
I roll with almost everyone and we all adjust our game depending who we're with that round. It takes until at least blue belt for most guys to be able to hold back strength and concentrate on technique.
Some men really don't like being tapped out by chicks. But often those are the guys who need some more ego breaking ;)
Control and Technique take the longest times to build. Glad you have both of them.
@@bulletproofforbjj thanks bros. It took ages to stop using all my strength every roll, because I was and am at a distinct disadvantage vs the boys, if you know you know.
I will train kickboxing with you, I will train boxing, but BJJ- Grips. Its just hella awkward. Im a white belt so I dont know shit. but like, thats part of the problem. Im gonna end up framing on a boob just to be straightfoward and Id rather avoid that
I'm 140lbs and partnered with another female white belt who was 250. She was supposed to trap and roll and land on her knees but wasnt able to control her weight, no agility so landed on me! My 71 year old hip was sore for two months. White belts are notoriously clumbsy. I am more careful now.
I'm a 56 kg dude. Very interesting discussion.
As a woman (who is on the smaller end of my gyms spectrum) I am only ever afraid to roll with one type: Men with one or two stripes on their white belts. My last experience with this type was the only time I was truly afraid of being hurt. I’m not sure what he was trying to prove but the dude had at least 80lbs on me and went 100% to tap me like every 30 seconds or so. Never experienced so many baseball bat chokes in my life lol. I kept telling myself not to be a little bitch but I might take your advice and turn the next one down.
It's tough because we all want to show courage and not back down but yes we feel you on the Baseball bat chokes- they are brutal. Avoiding injury is really what it's all about.
Wow the range of this conversation was wide and quality. Loved hearing the different approaches from the big gym names too!
My now brown belt wife got me into jiujitsu, im now mid purple. So I always felt that I had a good briefing on how to approach women. It was alot of emotional awareness and definitely not smashing smaller women. They appreciate solid technique and to not feel like they were given positions.
Having a partner who also rolls definitely helps give you perspective and insight into the struggles women face on the mat.
There is a guy at my gym that is 117kg. I'm 81kg. I hate rolling with that guy, because he uses all his weight to crush me, and makes it impossible for me to even work anything. When I train with women, I try not to be that guy
Definitely when you know what it feels like you are always more empathetic.
I am also one of the smallest guys in the gym. There are on a couple of other 72kg guys there but, most of the guys are 75-117kg. When I roll with the girls including my wife try not to use my weight or strength advantage. When rolling with the big guys I get rag dolled. I need to start lifting weights so I am able to move under their weight.
With girls I work my 1) loose passing because they are generally more flexible and quicker making their guard retention good. 2)submission/positional escapes, you can allow them to work with less resistance and then start trying to work your technique when it's time to escape and counter
I really appreciate you choosing this as a topic as I imagine it's often a discussion point that is actively avoided, perhaps for fear of saying the wrong thing. I'm 26 and around 52kg so am very small and have been training for around 2-3 months. I know that I have every right to be there, but there is a small part of my heart that sinks when I notice people actively avoid pairing up with me in class. I have to defuse the thought in my head that I'm somehow perceived as incompetent because I'm a female and I shouldn't be there. Some guys are confident and initiate pairing up which I appreciate though, so I always try and remember those moments. Being autistic, I also struggle with social situations (which is partly why jiu jitsu has been so good for my confidence) and I think it's an added difficulty when I struggle with interactions anyway, but also seeing the camaraderie that organically develops between men which I don't feel that I can naturally slot in to. I like being given a challenge and so going too easy on me is something that makes me impatient, personally, and sometimes I wonder if I need to assert something to them to make sure that I don't want them to change their approach if they roll with me, but like you say, maybe that isn't such a bad idea if there is a really big weight and strength difference. I did almost start jiu jitsu at another place with a female only class, but hindsight I'm glad I didn't, because training with bigger guys has been something challenging that I've been forced to adapt to and it's made me think harder about technique, and I think the reality check would have been painful if I had only trained with women of my size. I am really intrigued as to why males might hesitate pairing up with a female, so it's been interesting to hear your thoughts. Thank you :)
Thanks for sharing your experience. We thought it was an important topic that doesn't get much air time.
My problem with rolling with females is I'm never sure if I am using too much strength or also if sometimes I feel like maybe I'm being too gentle. I try not to avoid the girls but I'm definitely more inclined to roll with the guys preferentially
I like to be a gentleman and roll with the girls because I notice they get left out however I don't wanna look like a keen creep lol
Great one guys. I turn 52 next month and I truly appreciate rolling with the women in our gym as an alternative to a mid 20’s WB who came to bang. So appreciative I’ll usually start the round by making it dealer’s choice. They can drill the daily move with or without resistance, or if they’re much smaller I’ll offer the back or top side to them. Start with little force and mostly just use enough to make it fun. I’m not at a really good flow level IMO yet and they are a great way to move towards that. Great topics and love your banter, keep up the greatness🤙
I keep it safe with women on the mat but i aim to challenge them because in a street fight scenario i want them to be savages. We need to challenge them also give them room to work. How we train with them on the mats reflect of the mats
I so respect this. So many of us join for self-defense.
@@tia9966 🤙🏾
Best way to get the wife to do BJJ Is to tell her you've been rolling with other women in class.😂
😂😂
I’m 210 pound blue belt whenever I roll with woman I play on bottom and mostly focus on spaces and guard retention
Nice drop. I'm male, but a Rooster in a gym full of heavyweights with only five females. The "not using athleticism" part was very helpful, I'll be taking that to the mat tonight
Ah shit. I have to admit, when I first started, I did put heavy pressure on women I rolled with. I didn't know how to control my weight smoothly, and I think there might have even been a preconceived notion from them that because I was a guy they had to/could use a lot of strength. So I got very defensive because they were ripping armlocks even when I was being very limp in my first few classes. I had no experience with those armlocks and how fast the pressure came on, so I just started to bear down heavy to escape armlocks, etc. It was never out of anger but I just figured well I need to fight out of this or risk getting ripped on. I never injured anyone but I think there was some miscommunication/misunderstanding and they ultimately thought I had an ego issue or something. I think there was some ego, but mainly I was trying to avoid injury. But I see now that the real solution would have been to just avoid rolling with them until I could control my weight better. It's regrettable. Still, I always advocate for people to go only as hard as is productive for their partner, whether that be women or men, who are lighter/weaker/inexperienced/less skilled. Even if "productive" means they do end up getting submitted, at least it won't happen without injury. And it's definitely a good time to work on technique more than strength.
I am a 55kg female and I have trained with a lot of bigger male opponents. It’s usually a lot of fun because I can go all out and they get to move me around like a doll and see the effect of their sweep in full swing. I don’t know if its fun for them, but for me its my favorite!
That said, there is always 1-2 guys that would go to any extent to not get tapped by women. Anyone that’s a dickhead will usually get what they deserve shortly after by the other guys on the mat.
That's such a horrible attitude.
Rolling is about improving, not punishing others. Abusing it to dominate others just reflects negatively on the mindset of everyone around.
I think the strength advantage should always be respected.
This is an interesting topic for sure. At my gym when ever a big guy gets paired with a much smaller woman our coach tells us to only pull guard and work nothing but guard against them. I don't know if this is the right call but that's what we do.
It's pretty much impossible to roll well with a much weaker opponent when you're new.
I try to not strongly hold on to people smaller than me, but it's hard to do that consistently. I also find it really hard to realistically maintain guard against women or much smaller guys, bcs it's so hard to tell how much strength I'm using when keeping them away from me.
6:00 I saw a video of eddie bravo saying to men not to go easy on girls. idk how I feel about this. I respect eddie bravo but most women weigh significantly less than the amount i can bench--I'm not that strong, i'm just saying. thx for doing this video. i have rolled with women but nowadays i never really roll with women at all.
Excited to hear it. Rolling with women is a privilege, especially for women (to roll with women). Guys are great and women's BJJ as it is wouldn't even be possible without them. Dut bamn, when you roll with a fellow female and the majority of your tired, old excuses are no longer applicable. Love it
P.s. Women train like idiots with other women sometimes, because they don't get to that often so the skill isn't there. Some of my scariest rolls have been with women who said to go easy on them at the start 😆
New subscriber - 60 year old male, just starting my BJJ journey. Very valuable info in this session. With regard to religion, I cannot and will not respect someone that hides behind religion and uses it as an excuse to treat women poorly. Unless you are the owner of the establishment and have specific rules in place addressing the interactions between genders, it is my opinion that a student should either conform to societal norms or get the hell out. It should never be incumbent upon the majority to facilitate the juvenile needs of religious fanatics. The religious want acceptance and the freedom to do their thing, without oppression, yet some fail to reciprocate. The hypocrisy blows my mind. What if their religion prescribed the same treatment toward a person of color? Yeah, that sh&t would never fly!!
Just my 2 cents...
I've rolled with two women in 9 months of doing bjj, one of which started same time as me. I didn't go hard because I'm so much bigger which I think was the right response. The second was a more experienced blue belt, much more skilled but I noted immediately that I ould easily smother this person, so I played it medium strength and tried to work actual techniques as she threw up shields triangles etc. Dunno if that was right pr not but I'm well aware if I get it wrong it could be really bad...
When I first started BJJ, I was nervous to spar with other women just because I had heard of so many cases of men being falsely accused of sexual assault and didn't start rolling with some of the women until a month or two into it.
I confirm that Firas Zahabi will not roll with women, he said so explicitly in a video I watched. I know he doesn't intend anything wrong or disrespectful.
I think Flow Rolling is like a Turn Based Game. Like the pace when Drilling, Start Slow and you will develop a rhythm speed up.
Then it’s like a Game of BJJ Chess.
On the subject of rolling well above your own weight. I'm between 220-230 pounds (99-104kg) and nearly always compete in the unlimited weight class, so I'm competing against guys that are 300+ pounds (136+ kg). I admit I'm still a dumbass white belt, but I feel like I get quite a lot of value from rolling with people significantly heavier than me (if I can find them). That said, I can definitely understand the other end of it, where someone who's 120 pounds would want to avoid rolling with me. Totally makes sense.
You are not a small person Ed, we are similar weights. There is a huge jump when 70lbs is half your body weight compared to only 25-30% of our body weight. It's a sliding scale.
Along with the grips, be mindful of smashing on the side control to women, as it can cause breast tissue damage. I got a set of guards called boob armour, and it helps stop my poor girls being crushed in training.
I'm 80 kg, the next closest person in class is 90 kg and they're better than me. I get crushed. It's very discouraging.
I used to roll with women. But lately, some women I rolled with made me feel uncomfortable due to commenting on my weight and such so I just rather not. I weight 185. Im 5'8 1/2.
Id rather have the guys go hard with a roll. With practice on moves, no, but roll yes. If im getting attacked in the streets i need to know what im up against
I am 5'5, 135-145 lbs. small frame, not very strong, long lanky limbs. I generally just flow roll with every woman I roll with regardless of age, rank, size etc. The same goes for much bigger, stronger, more skilled people. Being a two year Blue belt, I just defend the best I can; defend, escape, sweep, repeat. If they're way too aggressive, I'll either find my way to their back or mount and go for something reliable to me like the cross collar or ezekial choke. If they're way bigger, I'll just defend and escape, sweep the best I can because I am simply NOT skilled nor strong enough to out skill or out power them. I know big guys that do ZERO guard or bottom work and they just SMASH on top. Not surprisingly, when they go against higher ranks, they're stuck on bottom and can't do shit lol.
15:52 made me attack that like button 😂
Did you also attack the subscribe button? 😉
Spats only 💪🏾
When I roll with women, I ALWAYS let them work, and I never put pressure on them. I do not need to impose my strength/will on them.
Thank you
I dont think they do women vs men in tournament so why would I train with one if my goal is to be competitive in the sport.
I find myself avoiding rolling with females just because I’m 6’2 205lbs and most of the girls at my gym are way smaller than I am and I feel like I’m putting to much weight or strength into the roll
There's women at my gym who just put the hurting on me and they're physically weaker than me. And other women at my gym who are not as skilled as I am, and I don't go as hard on them because retaining women in this sport is the goal. I treat women differently based off skill level and strength. I can go hard on a female purple belt because they can counter me. With a female white belt, I have to play with them a bit more.
Its always good to approach rolling different size and skill levels on an individual basis.
You could have titled the conversation: "How to train with smaller and weaker partners" (and you did pretty much say it). I've often wondered if it would be better to line everyone up by the sum of their deadlift, squat, bench and bodyweight so that everyone knows.
Not everyone lifts so that might put a flaw in that system.
@@bulletproofforbjj So why not just do that as part of new student induction?
Can't deadlift 1.5x your bodyweight? Can't do 10 pullups? Can't Bench 3/4 your bodyweight? Can't squat your own bodyweight? Well, you're going to roll around with people who can, and then some. Adjust accordingly for female strength standards.
@@stuartclubb4302 A lot of people deadlift, squat and bench specifically to get their numbers up. So those will vastly overestimate their strength compared to people, who are simply tested on the lifts without practicing them.
I really don't understand why larger higher ranks try to smash smaller lower ranks. It's a great chance for the big guy to work on technique which in turn lets the small guy work technique. Otherwise is very one sided (ego trip?) where really they both lose because neither learns much.
i wanna see some footage of these guys rolling.
Is it cool for women to wear only sport bras to class in bjj gym or is this considered inappropriate?
Would guys find this a little distracting or think nothing of it. Just curious.
P.S. i personality just find it a little 'unhygienic', not that the gym is dirty we clean the mats after every roll, but still your bear stomach and back grinding on the mats is a little strange to me.
Definitely not cool. You want to cover as much skin as possible, regardless of gender. It helps prevent abrasions, prevents spreading infections, and is more hygienic
I just don't roll with women, it's not worth the agro, I don't want to be accused of inappropriate behaviour. Especially with our political climate.
I'm 100kg been doing jiu-jitsu for over a month, I try to even avoid small guys.
There's so much for me to think about, I can't think about appropriate force as well.
I try and keep it calm, but it's never calm by the end of the roll.
I'm a woman and I've been training for 4 years. There has never been any accusations of inappropriate behaviour at our academy. If you can leash your inner monster and use less strength and play a technical game, you can roll with most women. But a fresh white belt like yourself doesn't have anywhere near enough technique to do it.
That comes with experience and skill development. Train for a year and see where your are at then.
Now make a video how to roll with trans woman 😜
What a unique request 💀
Where? Sounds like a unicorn.
But....what is a woman? 🤔
😜😂
😂😂😂
Is it true that JT would bang on the mats before a match because he skipped a meal to make weight he had turned into an angry gorilla.
I'm built like a lady so I don't have problems
Personally, I don't want to be rolling with a woman I may be crushing on. Or who isn't wearing shorts over her ass in no-gi. Cover your damn ass if you want to be taken seriously as a training partner. But women shouldn't take it personally if a man avoids rolling with females. Having said that I'm not dogmatic and I'll pair up with a woman to prevent an uncomfortable situation.
DORKS
Thanks!
I would be so happy if we even had women in my BJJ school. My place is too tough for women so I get it, we are like a fight club but it would feel nice to get some diversity, plus dynamics are always different with opposite gender around.
What do you recomend for someone with such a long dong that it's a problem
Tape it up
Can't say with have any experience with this.
Get a cup
Warp it around ur waist. Call it a black belt.
This is probably the Firas video ruclips.net/video/ycJX0x78kis/видео.html
Thanks for finding it! We appreciate the extra effort.
About conservative religious guys not wanting to touch women in training- I wonder how they would feel about a homosexual male training partner
Or a gay woman.
@@godisnotinvisible Gay woman cancels itself out for me.
Great question.
Another great question.
I bet they figure their God won't be mad at them for rolling with gay guys bcuz it's not a temptation to them. Muslims ahve the strict rules to put a lot of obstacles in front of premarital or extramarital relations
1) Buy ticket 2) Board carriage 3) Appreciate the mix of races and genders, including women, who also use public transport... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...I'll see myself out.
I prefer rolling with women because of less chance of injury. I get to focus on technique more.
I am very selective with the males I roll with and tend to stay away from the ones that feel like its a competition. I even evolved and eventually found myself rolling with males like I roll with women too.
Thats just the way I want to train 🫠
Great conversation boys 👊