How to test an electric air pump (P0410 case study)
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- For more on engine performance diagnostics go to www.scannerdanner.com
In this video I cover how to troubleshoot an electric air pump problem setting a trouble code P0410 on a GMC Envoy.
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
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On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC. 
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One of the best videos I've watched, process of elimination is key here , great job verifying what part is needed 👏👍💐
good vid SC i have this problem, just bought my ovn scan tool, fountain tire were going to charge me 167 bucks to diagnose the problem only, not fix it, this is the way to go!
Good one again Paul! I know this vid has been posted some time ago but the system has improved by incorporating a pressure sensor to the solenoid to aid monitoring. This sensor produces a baro voltage of about 2.8V (pump not in operation) and about 3.3V when the pump presents pressure 1.5 psi above baro pressure.
Just a little info I thought would be fitting...
thanks for taking time while you are working away from tech department it is more like the issues we have to solve when working on cars as we dont all have high tech equipment at hand so well done son
Thanks for the video - getting both a P0411 and P2440 codes on my 2010 Impala - figure the system is pretty similar to this one. My scan tool unfortunately cannot force the air pump to run - will have to do manually. I've had to change this air bypass valve once before. Can't believe it is gumming up already - like 30000 miles later. But will go through all connectors and power leads and check the blower as you have done. Appreciate the video.
great video, if you do not hear any exhaust noise when disconnecting the hose and the diverter valve is activated open, for sure stuck close or plugged passages, though i have never seen plugged passages, thanks in advance for all of your very educational videos
Having an AllDataRepair.com account really helps out with situations such as these, as far as locating components, OEM part numbers, system design diagrams, etc. Although not necessary, it does help out under certain circumstances. Also to add, my 2001 S-10 4.3L, which I replaced the pump and diverter valve on a couple months ago had no data PIDs to speak of. However, it did give me the option of turning the pump/relay on using AutoEnginuity software that I have, via the bi-directional functionality for many components. From there, I had to diagnose the problem, which turned out to be a frozen air pump, blown 30 amp fuse, for obvious reasons, and a faulty diverter valve that was filled with water when I pulled everything apart. This is a common issue for the S-10 trucks with the 4.3L, and also the 2.2L engines. The redesigned GM part has an atmospheric tube that can be ran wherever you like. I ran mine up beside the radiator housing and secured it there.
I have a client with this code and unfortunately I don’t have a scan tool with directional controls. Thanks to your video I have a better idea of what to do for testing purposes. I figured between you, South Main Auto, or Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics I would find my answer.
Those two guys are awesome. You definitely found the right channels. Thank you!
Thanks for the video!!!!! Time is money!!!! Quick check can save you money!!!!Great Video!!!!!!😊😊😊😊
Thank you very much! Paul. God bles you
very good
paul you make it exelent
Man. I love ur work
GMC Envoy
Thanks for that diagnosis
Paul, great video. Following along it seems that with good power and ground, loaded circuit, it could still have an open in the solenoid coil itself. I suppose the fix would be the same either way, solenoid and valve are one part. Going a little further still it is possible to have clogged passages in the cylinder head, or manifold -where ever the valve mounts. So solenoid and valve may be working, but there is possibly another blockage. Sometimes i spend too much time thinking about all the possibilities, even unlikely ones. Very good instructional diagnostic video.
Blockage would not occur on this system because it's just pumping air, but I suppose anything is possible.
EGR passages get plugged up because of the exhaust gases that carbon up
+ScannerDanner Definitely not very likely, but possible. I have seen clogged cylinder passages on audi 1.8, turbo engines. Especially if the system has not been working for a while. Carbon in the exhaust system can block off air passages from the inside. Promise. I suppose it's very rare though.
More good stuff to know, thanks for the video.
You seem to need a general tips type of faq video to cover basic things so you can stop "survivor man" ing yourself but thank you so much for the efforts you put forth to show everyone what your doing even though it sucks more people don't watch your great videos.
Thank you so much. 👍👍👍
Parameter Identification Data STFT and upstream HO2S is what I would have looked at first. Some of the Volkswagen vehicles are notorious for AIR system faults. I personally can not stand the sound of air pumps, sounds like an obnoxious vacuum cleaner, like a Dyson, lol.
Great video once again Paul, keep them coming
Yeah i agree it does look like an egr but not,i do smogs in california and we had the problem.. always better to check voltage drops when is the circuit is loaded totally right,keep it up PAUL..
Great video!!!!!!!!!!
I knew I should have came straight to a ScannerDanner video; could have saved me a lot of frustration.
Nice
I had this exact problem, thank you very much.
+ScannerDanner when i unplug the hose i hear no noise what else could be the problem
Good job!!
I always learn something from your videos. Thanks. I've been fighting an intermittent 411 code (SAI insufficient flow) on an 09 saturn aura with 2.4l ecotec since about 12,000 miles. Dealer tech replaced almost every system part inc. the check valve, inlet hose & the air pump. The new air pump seemed to solve it till the 3yr/36K warranty expired. Now it returns intermittently.
working on it Frank. It was hacked last week, and was down for 30 hours. It came back on-line for 4 or 5 days and now was hacked again. This time the main server. I will extend any time for any video that you have purchased, no problem at all. Sorry for the inconvenience. Keep checking, it should be up later this evening. By the way, I have extended all video lecture time periods to 90 days.
....you are the man....
I have a 2008 buick lacrosse cxl 3.8l i just replaced my pump and my check engine light is still on i might have to follow your directions do you have any advice.
Bing bang, another good vid, thanks
Hello, I have a 2007 Saturn Ion P2431. The air pump is working. How can I be sure it is the divert valve without high level scan tool? The valve has 5 wires I believe. Seems that the valve stuck so the flow is off and trips the code. But how can I be sure? Thanks.
i just did this on my cadillac, little different design but you wouldnt of been proud of me paul, i just bought it with the MIL on for a po410, and got a discount for the mil being on, i pulled the code before i bought it, i knew the pump was bad it was full of water, but i just''THREW'' the check-valve in it just so i wouldnt have to worry about it. it was a 2004 original check valve. we know how you hate part throwers, lol
good job
+Alan Reyes thanks Alan
Hey Paul. You've taught me more than anyone ever has and need your advise. I currently am using my solus ultra and vantage pro. SO dropped off the versus pro fully loaded. Do you have an email I could get your opinion on a couple of things before I get this thing. I own my units and have a zero balance with him and like it that way. But this thing is way cool. Thanks in advance.
Can it also be a clogged air port where the air check valve bolts on
just did air valve fould up reset code to off but how do i keep water out
Hi Paul,
During your troubleshooting of this EGR relay/air flow problem with the pump, did you do a resistance check of the solenoid? To me, if the relay coil was open, then it would have exhibited the same symptoms as a carbon'd up pintel in the EGR valve (stuck). What was the final R.C.A (root cause analysis)?
Tom D.
For a moment I thought Paul was going to say "I'm sweating my balls off" loool. BTW the noise comparison was an excellent point in diagnosis. It definitely sounded like when you take your hand and put it over a vacuum cleaner suction tube or apparatus. I wonder if all applications work like this one. It has been a while, but IIRC on some BMW's, the engine must be running for the system to operate to spec. But the specifics escape me.
Also, carbon build up in the head could be blocking flow if diverter clicks (opens). Can feel for difference in the vacuum at intake pipe if pump is good
Love your video's. Why is your site down?
On my 2010 Impala I was having this problem with a very poor start in the morning when it was cold. Car has about 170,000 miles. It acted like it was flooded - but I did not smell excessive fumes coming from the tail pipe. Once it got through the rough start it ran fine, especially when it was warm. Seemed like it only ran poorly when it sat overnight and was cold. Checked for codes but there were none. I went through and systematically checked everything like injectors, vacuum leak, gasket leaks, fuel pump pressure, ECT and AT sensor readings... etc etc but no luck. Everything seemed fine. I then took off the pipes for the secondary air injection system (since this system worked only in the cold start-up period) and the pump was running... but I wondered if the secondary air injection valve may be the culprit. Again - no codes. Took it off, cleaned it, lubricated the upper section and we're back to normal. Bugger valve was sticking - probably closed. I suspect the ECU commanded a rich condition for startup for that initial 90 sec run of the air pump, but the valve wouldn't open and prevented the necessary air injection. But the bugger thing wouldn't set a code. I wonder how my catalytic is though... acceleration and power seem fine. Anyways - just thought I would write this for others that may be having the same problem.
Thanks for the tips!
Thanks for sharing Paul, if the air pump creates a lean 02 signal and that forces STFT to go + then does that not mean the engine will run rich to correct it?
nice
Can you test the air pump with out the scanner like manually??
Just polarity most likely
Sure put 12 volts to it and see if it blows air. Also test the air pump relay for continuity when applying 12 volts. My relay was clicking when 12 volts applied, but had no continuity. Replaced relay $30 part fixed
paul, what is going on with the lecture website? autocomputer troubleshooting?// havent been able to access my lectures for a week or more..now it ses error 404.and its a ad for a PC cleaner??? crazy.. but im losing time on my 45 days of access.. any idea when this will be fixed?
Should be back up shortly, sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you!
Any discount on the paper book for people that already own the e book?
Now all I need is a vid on how to replace.
+true. lion wish I had one for you. I mainly focus on the troubleshooting part.
I thought this video was good. But all your videos are good.
Another great video. Been a while you go on vaca or something?
It is just a momentary test, but yes, in theory that is what happens. And how much fuel addition to bring the O2 back rich = amount of airflow from the pump
How do I get the code to clear? I have replaced the part.
I had a check engine light hooked up a scan tool and got po410 code . I cleared it just to see would come back , so far it hasnt . Quick question Do do think it be able to pass emmissons ?
did it?
Thank you Frank, I appreciate your patience. Let me know if there are any you want to see again. I have no problem extending your view times. You are a valued customer! Send me a pm or if you know my email address, and let me know which ones.
On another note, my web hosting company says everything should be good by tomorrow morning.
I have a 2004 GMC Envoy and I have the code P0410 secondary air injection system I change the selenoy, the pump works. When I start the car I hear the pump and the selenoy work for 40 seconds and then it stops how long is the pump a post to run for?
That's about all you get from them and they will only run on the first start up with engine coolant temp below a certain threshold.
I had the EXACT same symptoms and diagnosis on my 2005 Deville 4.6L with its vacuumless smog/AIR pump system. Unfortunately, after replacing the air check valve/"solenoid" it did not work although I measured 12.4+ volts at the plug when the system was on. I tested the old and new air check valve/"solenoid" against the battery and they both operated which lead me to believe it was a connection or current issue. After verifying the connections were fine and no resolve I went back to the AIR PUMP VALVE MINI RELAY which was the ISSUE. It was failing... You could hear and feel it click barely which was giving voltage but not a good enough connection for the required amperage. IF YOU HAVE THE SAME SYMPTOMS AND DIAGNOSIS HERE, you might need a new air check valve/"solenoid" OR a new MINI RELAY.
What you are describing is a resistance problem which would absolutely have been seen with your voltmeter as long as the measurement was taken with the circuit loaded.
Would of liked to see o2 and st term after repair
The HO2 reading would bias towards lean because of the introduction of air into the exhaust stream, and the PCM will correct it by biasing to rich = "+" readings for STFT.
Great demo, what your calling the solenoid / diverter is that also the same as the Check Valve or also called shut off valve? On myn 04 Trailblazer that is what they call the same part your referring to as solenoid / diverter , unless I am seeing you touch a different part .Thanks in advance
JOHN WEITZMAN Sounds like it, I am using old terminology for this valve. A check valve or shut off valve would also be accurate in describing what this part does.
ScannerDanner Thanks
Great video, I need your advice to solve this problem with my 2005 ml350 W163 code P0412 secondary injection pump valve A malfunction, I'm getting ground with my power probe on both sides of the 2 wire electrical connector to the air pump solenoid when the key is on I'm getting 12 volts on both wires check engine light is on. Your help is highly appreciated.
Okay awesome so far on your work. With the connector unplugged, one of those two 12v readings will drop. Tell me what it drops to. This is your control wire and it is ground side switched.
@@ScannerDanner Blessing . With the connector unplugged I have 0.0 volts on the green and brown wire , No reading on the other wire, I realized that when the connector is plugged into the solenoid I get ground on both sides of the wires, when the key is on I get 12.2 volts on both wires. I replace the solenoid with one from the dealer and same problem ground and power when connected. Thank very much for your response. Have a blessed day.
Rechecking voltage reading with connector unplugged is 12.1v
Brother Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, I'm still waiting for your answer.
i was told when i was an apprentice mechanic this system is just to fool gas analyser readings to make exhaust emissions seems better than they actually were. seeing as gas analysers dont measure gas quantity you could use an air pump to simply dilute hc's, lowering their ppm reading. my teacher was highly dubious of this systems actual effectiveness even though the principal of adding oxygen to create auto ignition of remaining hc's in exhaust manifold seems correct. what do you think paul?
Damn, I wish I had seen this video about a month ago. I had been back and forth with the place that I got my 04 Envoy from over a constant P0410. He told me that he finally got it, I am going to ask if it's that electric check valve that did it.
You could put your hand on the tailpipe to see if the air is coming out. That wouuld check the diverter/solenoid valve opening.Of course KOEO
Unless the pipe leading to exhaust manifold is completely plugged with carbon build-up. IF that was the case, replacing the solenoid wouldn't solve the issue.
+ChrisCas aka Superautobacs
I second your opinion! I think ScannerDanner proved the air pump AND the diverting solenoid are working fine by disconnecting the rubber intake hose and seeing that there was then LOTS of airflow and the motor
"relaxed" on its current draw under a normal workload. However, when he plugged the hose back in, the motor "backed-up" once again indicating a blockage. I would say that based on this, there is likely a blockage of intake air into the airflow motor somewhere along that rubber hose line. UNLESS I AM MISSING SOMETHING....
So I believe this is what is wrong with my '05 Envoy. I have not tested it like you have in the video, but I can audibly tell that the diverter/solenoid you mentioned is stuck shut. Supposing that my vehicle is having the same problem as the vehicle in this video, how do you fix the problem? Do I need to replace the diverter/solenoid?
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What's the name of the scanning tool you using (verus?).
Most likely, yes
yea mate, i get the theory. what im suggesting is there may be some degree of cloak and mirrors when it comes to the actual readings. if, for example, you were to pump air into the exhaust 30cm before the opening at the end (where the lower temperatures wouldnt allow burning of any excess hc's)- any gas analyser readings would read less HC's because there is more air.
Based on popular codes per manufacture
if the hc reading was 50 ppm without addition of any ambient air, but then your pump output the same quantity of air into the exhaust as the engine (doubling the quantity of gas measured) you would get 25 ppm. you with me?
Good evenings where is the secondary air injection injection pump located on 2012 buick regale located I have been looking everywhere on this engine
Sounds like you need some good service info.
Here is a link to the DIY version of the same service info I use
eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
It is simply there to improve start-up emissions. Introduce fresh air into the exhaust manifold during the high HC/CO (rich exhaust) event of a start up and you can continue the burn in the exhaust manifold instead of just dumping these pollutants into the atmosphere.
Man u should do a quick guide on manufactures specific., using ur test methods, like fords dpfe and yr models test procedures all good for. Fords return less fuel system yrs from etc
can that pump can cause my 2005 4.2 Trailblazer to have a higher RPM and loss of acceleration
Not likely. The only way you would get any driveability issues associated with an electric air pump, would be if the diverter valve was stuck open. This would cause a false lean condition and an over fueling problem. Engines that are running too rich do not have loss of acceleration complaints.
Is the air pump suppose to make that whirl jet like noise? Or does that mean it's bad? Because when I start up my 04 Deville when it's cold it makes the same noise for about 30seconds. Then goes away
As long as there is no code for it, don't worry about it.
ScannerDanner check engine light is on not sure why just got the car today
IF you have any other questions.
It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there.
Paul Danner (ScannerDanner)
www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
Dear Paul. I have a cavalier 1999, 2.2 engine. The engine has an overheating problem. Once you turn off ac start overheating.. So have to keep turn on the ac in order no overheat . I changed: thermostat, temperature sensor, refrigerator deposit, etc. Please I need you help.
radiator fan works? check fuse
the computer doesn't detect the air pump ...it says "ready" for the last month
i have an gmc sierra 2001 1500
Hey Paul, I often wonder why people put a thumbsdown on your videos...do you get responses from anyone or haters that don't like your videos?
do they make a bi directional scan tool for under $600?
not that I have seen
I have no power for the wires to the air pump the relay doesn't have power either please help can find anything about no power going to this pump mine is on a Chevy cobalt but same concept
You need a good wiring diagram. I posted this on my community tab yesterday.
Just wanted to remind my community about where you can get service information. (wiring diagrams, flowcharts etc). I use a professional program that runs about $160 a month called ShopKey (same as Mitchell-On Demand), but there is a DIY version where you can purchase a 30 day pass for an individual car for $20. This will give you access to the same diagrams and service information that I use for that one car. So if you are working and doing side jobs for people, simply add this cost ($20) into your diagnostic fee for that customer! It is a win for everyone involved! You get to take on more jobs because you now have service info and you do not have to pay $160 a month for a program you may only use a few times a month. Here is the link to the DIY site
eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817...
EDIT!! There is a demo vehicle that they give you a user name and password for that allows you to explore the program! Super helpful in seeing if it is right for you or not
What scanner are you using?
Snap-on Verus
Is air always on from the hose u pulled off.should air be flowing at all times?
Only for the first minute of start up when the engine temp is below 100 degrees. Otherwise you'll need to energize the pump circuit manually or with a scan tool.
@@ScannerDanner ok thank you so much for replying back I've taken my vehicle to the Chevy dealer and a private auto shop and no one seems to know what the problem is I'm getting the p0411 I changed out the pump underneath the driver side and I also changed out the secondary pump under the hood and still keep getting the code coming back
I have a 2017 range rover sport 3.0. Can't find it
Google will be your better friend than me on that one. I'm sorry, if I knew I'd tell you
Ure A Bad Whipa'Snapa,Thanx For The Knowledge,I Learned Alot From Yor Video (^_^)
Thanks Ricardo
ScannerDanner ; ure welcome,i will subscribe (^_^),oh,& wish i had that (verlis),nice unit
My 96 f150 4.9 has a p0411. I wish I can understand all that you’re explaining in this video. I’m so dam slow😒 haha
You system doesn't use an electric air pump. What the definition of the P0411 on your truck
@@ScannerDanner P0411 Secondary Air Injection System Incorrect Flow Detected and since this issue popped up it’s been sputtering and idle dropping super low. Also thanks for the reply, I really didn’t expect that!
@@Smacks1 okay cool, step 1. Take the air hose off that goes to the exhaust manifold and make sure there is no air flow coming from that port once the engine is warmed up.
@@ScannerDanner the air hose coming from the air filter? The other hoses that I’m seeing is the tube leading to the egr valve and another that’s connecting to the brake booster
@@Smacks1 no, none of those are air pump hose other than maybe the one to the air cleaner.
You ever use a power probe
How can you load test the circuit with a defective component?
It wasn't the EGR valve. It was an AIR diverter/solenoid. No I didn't do an ohm test as it wasn't needed to properly troubleshoot this problem. The valve wasn't opening. Whether it was an open coil winding or just mechanically stuck shut, I don't know and didn't care. It needed a new solenoid. I am pretty sure that it wasn't an open solenoid though because I would have had a solenoid circuit problem trouble code which I did not. Either way, it didn't matter.
It's not for fooling the gas analyser. At start up the catalytic converter gets more HC and less O2 than in normal running condition, resulting in more HC coming out the tailpipe (let alone CO). By introducing more O2, the cat can convert (burn/oxidize!) more HC's to CO2. As an added bonus the cat gets warmer faster so it operates better sooner.
If its open air would be at the exhaust pipe with pump running
What if the pump is working but not getting any power to it
where's the air pump ? and relay?
I SAW IN A CAR THAT WHEN THE AIR SOLENOID WAS STUCK CLOSE LIKE IN THIS VIDEO, WHEN YOU MAKE THE AIR PUMP WORK, THE ENTIRE SECUNDARY AIR SYSTEM WORK WITH THE SOLENOID STUCK CLOSE, IT MAKE THE O2 SENSORS GO RICH!!!!!!!!!, WHY IT DID THAT IN THAT CAR????, MAYBE BECAUSE OF ELECTRIC LOAD OF THE RUNNING PUMP?, OR THE PCM ANTICIPATING A LEAN CONDITION?
are you making the pump turn on with a scanner or manually?
send me a private message on youtube. I don't want to list my email address here.
Good mechanics know what the P0410 code means. It means another pump filled up with water. A new one will do the same thing, it's just a matter of time.It's a manufacturing error that continues to be made.
ok no problem..didnt know if maybe you just decided to end the lectures..''which i would of been very disappointed ive bought every one so far''..sry about all the problems..
No that is not it . Its under the vehicle under the driverside seat.
Air injection has to be one of the most backward ass stupid fucking systems Ive ever heard of... WTF.
All these videos show you how to test with a computer with specialized software that nobody has. LOL...FAIL.
The fail is on your end because you cannot see past the equipment and listen to the tests I am showing and then adapting them to the equipment you have.