Update: Tesla have been reviewing the data remotely (which is fantastic!) and can confirm the car has zero faults evident. Coolant pumps etc operating as should. They can see when battery reaches 60 deg Celsius that the output Kw is reduced. They have raised to engineering but essentially, unless can somehow be tweaked with software updates, that this is simply a limitation with the car. Not fit for purpose then…😢
So sad, wonder if they never tested the MIC or MIB and only tested the US cars. How/who did you insure the car for the track? I’d love to take a polestar 2 onto thruxton when I purchase one one day
It doesn't surprise me. Cylindrical cells just can't get the heat out fast enough due to the surface area to volume ratio of that type of cell. A pouch cell as in the Ioniq 5N is a much better shape for thermal management due to it's inherent design. The MP3 is a great road car, but not great for anything other than one lap flat out on track.
Be interesting to see how the Hyundai N model fairs in similar circumstances. To be fair they don’t sell it as a race car. Having driven a few, they make awful road cars 😂😂
@@techevogiven the previous car didn’t have the same issue with the same design cell I wouldn’t think that’s the whole story. Suspect it’s more to do with the LG cell rather than the 2170 hence why the US cars are rated with more power Anyway should all be solved when the finally get the CATL Qilin
I ran my 2023 MY Perf on track, default 50/50 track setting, default regen, went a little easy on the brakes as i knew they would be the weak point (not unusual for a heavy street car on stock pads) and the only thing that got into the orange was the battery. tyres, motors, brakes, everything else was fine. Went from 96% SoC to about 20% no power loss, no issues. Agree they handle better than you would expect
Great video Richard and this is what makes me hesitant to purchase one here in Vancouver. I don't like the fact that the battery is different coming out of Shanghai and the Shanghai factory are where all of the Canadian Tesla's are coming from. Build quality and fit and finish may be better but the battery quality is IMPORTANT to me
Regen makes a huge differnece. I drove my 21 mod 3 performance on the ring and when going over 40% regen the battery gets hot. Worth noting that i have aftermarket brakes so i can push them a bit more
Thanks for that video. I was considering this car as my next one. But now I have some thinking to do. Car with a track mode not able to run on a track. Not fit for purpose! Disappointing. Would be interesting to know how the battery temps behave on a German autobahn performing longer highspeed stretches?!
@@StefanoFinocchiaro I think there are at least 2 race settings with Ioniq 5 N. Depending on the type of track. I’m waiting for mine to be delivered so will be interesting to investigate
@@StefanoFinocchiaro- That's exactly what Tesla does with Track Mode. It COOLS the battery as much as possible, by overclocking the aircon compressor and transferring heat out of the battery coolant and oil system for the motors via the octovalve.
Did you ever test the Polestar 2 Performance or BST version on a track? I'm curious how it performs in comparison. The PS2 Performance is comparable in price to the TM3P. You should definitely test the Ioniq 5 N when you get a chance. From what I have seen it can go on for much longer without issues. The new Polestar 3 and 4 will be interesting as well.
Other than 0-60mph the tesla will get slapped on all metrics unfortunately. The panasonic US car would be a better match but still not as capable on track compared ti the N.
@@juanmedinar20 I’m just an EV enthusiast who watched like 25 video reviews of the 5N, and it’s unanimous this thing is a beats even if it weighs 4800lbs. Great steering response, great handling, competent on and off track, great top end power (better than m3p with LG battery), etc. Looks like the best package as far as a car that can do it all
The 5N can get to the top of Pikes Peak with no degradation and can cover 2 laps of the Nurburgring Nordschleife at full speed! There isn't a car currently available from Tesla that can match that.....
It pretty much does, several shared videos of track runs at Laguna seca shows you get 1 or 2 basically all out laps before. The stock tires and brakes cause fall off and battery temps cause power reduction to kick in. It does lap with a c8 though for half price. 😀 So it's a much better built and much more capable overall car for cheaper than a pre highland m3p was. But the battery itself&the cooling system, with small for the perf sized brakes and not true high perf tires. Means it's a fun quick canyon carver that costs 55k&runs high 10s. Vs being anything serious for a fun track day without additional bolt on parts&tires. But that is also true of most ALL vehicle's sold. 😎👍🏻
@@4literv6that's true for most cars? U can't be serious dude lmfao. 1 or 2 laps around 1 min short tracks like that then it starts overheating and the brakes also go bad? 😂😂 that's true for almost no true sports car in this day and age. Imagine if porsche or bmw had those problems. Their would be massive recall and it would be blown out of this world on car channels .
Nice one for showing the truth, Richard. I love my Highland LR but I don’t think any Tesla is track material. You can give it an option called track mode and a few cool settings to fiddle with, but in the end it’s a great, efficient EV for the road which can accelerate very fast to give your family and mates a giggle. It’s not track material.
Sounds like it’ll need cooling mods for extended use, and some of the usual tweaks like the last M3P. Still excited to see the full potential of this car realized
I received my M3P Highland ten days ago and have been driving it satisfactorily. However, from a performance and driving fun perspective, the best electric car at the moment is the Ioniq 5 N. Hyundai has excellent battery temperature control technology and has implemented gear shifting, which is something you usually see in internal combustion cars. It's really impressive.
I have the LR Highland and it is very wobbly and scary above 100mph - bordering dangerous. The mud flaps scrape the ground often so it is pretty soft. My flaps are now half length compared to when new! The MP3 Highland is clearly more composed but a change in tyres etc would help it a lot. I am also wondering if it needs to be driven in a smooth manner rather than drive it like you stole it? Any road based car struggles on track if you drive it like that. My 2012 scooby did 8.1 mpg on track. That was around 80 miles from 70 litres of SUL.
So in the UK we get lower power to begin with, and it still overheats in a short distance on track, even in UK temps. Wonder if the US cars with their battery pack fare any better? I was on the fence about chopping my 2020 M3P for one of these or the Ioniq 5N. Went with the Ioniq 5N, a few weeks in and glad i did….. just dropped my 2020 M3P off for sale at RSEV. Check them out if you’re looking for an EV. Great guys!
Tesla aren't really interested in making a proper track ready EV, they want to sell millions of cars, and that's their priority. That's not going to change anytime soon. 5 years after the original 2019 M3P, they have only improved the rear motor in regards to performance, and the MIC cars are a backstep in regards to the battery. The battery in the US car is basically the same, and will de-rate after approx 3 minutes on track as it's having to deliver around 80bhp more. Compare that to the Ioniq5N which is pushing 640bhp and can run flat out for 2 laps of the Ring. Disappointing, but the reality of using cylindrical cells.
Then why do they have a track mode and call this a "performance" model? U do realize performance= speed, handling, and braking .. right? Not just a quick acceleration from stop light to stop light. This isn't a perfromance car if that's all it offers. Plus it's top speed is trash
@@G82Wattsthe same reason Teslas have 'Track modes'....Elon probably studied other performance cars and two days before releasing the Model 3 he noticed 'these A45s and Bmw M3s...they all have track modes. Put a track mode in the Model 3 whatever that is!'
@@hasangenc2922 lmao. Elon reminds me of all these nerdy tesla owners who review their cars and u can just tell they had no idea about cars till tesla came out. Tech 🤓
Without rubbing too much salt in to the wounds, I think the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will best this, not just in endurance over several laps but be more involving and almost certainly more fun with the "gear changes" and "engine braking" effect when slowing and "changing down a gear". These things matter when track driving., and heighten the involvement factor. Its not just about going as fast as possible.
Can you provide the specifications of the race? It's really important to know because they can vary significantly between countries, race tracks, and race rules. 1. What was the temperature on that day? 2. How long did each race last in minutes approximately? How much rest did the Tesla have between races, and how many races were there in total? 3. At what points and for how long on the timeline do you really start to loose motor power, and how much power do you loose roughly in percentage terms? 4. The same for braking performance - when do you start to loose performance, how long does it last, and how much performance do you loose? This information is really interesting to know. Perhaps you mentioned some of this in your video, but I couldn't find it. I test-drove this Tesla M3P provided by a dealer, and it was intresting. I plan to buy this M3P next year and want to understand its limits. In Poland, we have 18 race tracks, and I've driven on one of them with different cars, which was really cool. Now I'm choosing between the RS3 and the M3P and trying to understand which would be better for me.
It would been nice to have a full screen capture so the data you guys talking about we can see it, and you guys ran with a custom profile with 100% brake regen, reducing that would have save some battery temp.
In Australia later model 3 LR (pre face lift cars) had the LG 79kw packs and the higher internal resistance in my opinion is the issue with heat on track. I managed after a few laps to overheat my battery. I think the Panasonic 82kw with its significantly lower internal resistance can not only charge faster but produce less heat under load. It seems like 55c is optimal for charging and discharging quickly, but 60c they reach their thermal throttling limit. There's a video on my profile of track use with live battery stats of the LG 79kw pack. And this was back when max draw was 366kw not the ~400kw of the new performance.
Right so it’s crap and show the limitations of EVs as performance cars. I have a model Y performance and really enjoy it. But if I’m going to go on a track I want a proper car, this isn’t it. 30 miles in just over 50% battery? That’s pathetic.
This car is just not meant for racing. Its more a gimmick (track modus). Cooling is always a big issue of electric cars. The ionic 5n does it a bit better and the porsche also. I was pretty amazed that Lucid had such good cooling. With Teslas its just not very good. You can try tuning and modding it to get better temps maybe.
My take is that 'Race Cars' are irrelevant now since Ice cars no longer need to be optimised. I still want an EV that looks like 'Race Car' but is for the road and also has very impressive acceleration.
You need regen braking off. Also the Lg battery that comes in the EU/Asia version has these problems unfortunately. The US Panasonic version is fantastic tho
I wonder if this is just an issue with the LG packs outside North America. Just watched a video of a guy doing a track test in 100 degree F temp (California) and the motors got orange, but the battery temp was fine. Will be interesting to see the difference between the Panasonic and the LG packs.
Awesome, can’t wait! We’ve had our twin motor performance EX30 for a few weeks and it’s blown us away. Crazy performance and build quality for the money. Would be fun to see how it compares on track.
Infotainment has been solid for us; buttery smooth. It’s also pin sharp. In terms of the throttle lag, that only occurs in normal mode (not AWD performance mode where the front motor is permanently engaged).
It’s not a bargain at all in the uk that’s ridiculous that it’s equivalent to 76k US. I got mine for 46k US after tax credit which is insane. And I have more peak power than them.
@@israelmercado9692 in the Us with tax credits it’s a good buy for a fast car. Problem starts though when you drive it fast. You can cook the breaks and the battery it seems. That could kill you if you fade brakes in the wrong corner
From what i gather in informations. 1. Brakes are not really better. Ususal tesla lies on all models. See Model S Plaid. 2. Same Battery. So more stress for the battery unit. The US Version has a new battery and better power output 3. Adaptive suspension 4. Sportier seats. Conculsion. Still far away from being a trackday car.
Hi Richard - When you get data from the US-version, I hope you will do an update video about how much difference the two battery packs makes on tracks. !
Ioniq would unfortunately leave it behind… better high end speed, sustainable energy. Maybe braking not quite as good as its heavier but in reality it would trail the 5n I’m quite sure
@@RSEVthe Ioniq does up to 280kw of regen on braking so I don't think the brakes would be worse compared. It delivers impressive numbers everywhere it is tried right now
I knew this would be a problem with the car because the lead engineer said it would be.. but it still hurts to see. Tesla needs a proper track day model.
@@hasangenc2922 If you want to look at it from a cold, business perspective, sure.. But I'm just saying, from a consumer POV, we need a Telsa that doesn't power limit after 3 laps..
@@chewthegumwe certainly dont need it, its a Tesla, not an M3, not a 5N, and not a Porsche or Amg. Its like a Corolla, just quicker. Cheap to maintain, quick, boring. Racing isnt what Tesla does.
@@Euromasterrace5000 My point is that it doesn't have to be that way.. They could make an easy to maintain, fast, and fun Model 3. There's no reason they couldn't other than "it wouldn't sell well". I'm not saying they need to change their entire lineup. All I'm saying, is Tesla should have an "N", "M", or "AMG" esque performance trim.
This is the difference between LG and Panasonic batteries. Pre 2022 M3P used Panasonic batteries in Europe, after that they are all LG - including on the new 2024. The LG batteries have DOUBLE the internal resistance of the Panasonic's, meaning they will get much hotter far quicker when under continuous load like on a track.
Yeah even though it’s a performance car it’s not a dedicated track car and that track had no let up for the battery to cool down or recover with slow chicanes etc. like other comments was the regen the issue? You need to drive it like a normal road car not a race car.
I've test drove one today. For everyday use its not worth the upgrade in price over the Standard range and nevermind the LR. It will be LR with 19" wheels for me.
I've driven many different cars and bikes on track and I can't say that I've ever wanted to drive any electric (road) car around any track. Regardless of the weight, there's no engine noise which is surely one of the joys of driving a car on track? Having also worked at a circuit for a couple of years, I could count on one hand, the number of people driving their 'road car' on circuit and I can't imagine many people building a Tesla racetrack only car. Shame about the battery problems but it seems Tesla did not spend a lot of time developing their performance model 3 for on-circuit use.
It’s better than the modified old M3P. I’ve had both, and this is faster with battery performance much the same. Come to Castle Combe and I’ll show you.
The LG pack definitely has a higher internal resistance, resulting in decreased charge and discharge performance when compared to the Panasonic variant.
Just had one of these on loan for the weekend. Not sure how they have managed this, but for all the improvements it somehow feels ‘cheaper’ than the last 2 generations of M3P. Whilst the cabin is well insulated from external noise, the NVH coming through the chassis when moving is simply not good enough. Tyre roar is one thing, but the noise from the suspension and in particular the front motor is very disappointing. Not convinced by the adaptive dampers - a 200 mile round trip down a mix of country roads, A roads, the M1 and driving into central London revealed a hard ride with sharp ridges being transmitted straight through the cabin (in standard mode). Sport mode was obviously worse. The new sports seats creak, and the noises of plastic on plastic coming from the dash area make it sound like one of those cassette trays from the 80’s is installed somewhere. The wheel trim aero pieces are also an issue - if you drive with the window open next to wall you can hear them rattling. Overall disappointing - it looks better, and they have addressed a number of previous issues but seemingly created more in the process. Worst of all, UK cars come with a compromised battery pack (see track overheating and reduced performance vs US cars). Unacceptable the prices other countries pay for this car - even more so at UK prices. Model 3LR is the smart choice if you must have a model 3 - even more so if/when acceleration boost is introduced. Lease rates seem to be £250 per month less that he M3P. I don’t buy the ‘Performance’ credentials of this M3P - they appear to be more cosmetic that of any real value day to day, and as RSEV has proved, not of any real advantage for the occasional track day. My money will be heading in the direction the Hyundai IONIC 5N.
@@sorinelpustiu5674 Depends on the model. The new Turbo S is fast. And the power output is consistent through the different battery levels. Better a good secondhand Taycan that a new Tesla costing the same money.
@@cuisleproperties6351 the issue is that the taycan sucks as an actual EV but is good on the track,so it depends what you need. Teslas are nr1 by far as actual EVs on the road but not so good on the track. Ive been to the track twice in my life so I think having a car that can do car things is more important
Would still need to tweak it with third party mods, but at least they do offer the $20k ceramics on that trim; for this one you would need to go to third party for them, along with more track oriented suspension/cooling. Track racing can be an expensive hobby.
I’m a big fan of Tesla however this is a massive disappointment and I agree with you not fit for purpose. You have all the software under the Sun so you can go happily round of track on a track day only for it not to perform😡 Wow they’re gonna get some recalls. I like it too getting a radio control car at Christmas unwrapping it out of the box charging the battery and with great anticipation you get one minute to use it things haven’t come on since the eighties to be fair and I really don’t wanna say the obvious , you wouldn’t get this from an ice car
It feels better, brakes better, but top end speed not notable but then didn’t get chance to really stretch because battery overheats just as getting everything else warmed up.
My 21-plate model 3 long range lease is up the end of July… I was looking at treating myself to the performance Model 3… but having watched this… I'm not sure it is worth the extra £420 per month over a long range
The Hyundai Ioniq 5N has just done the Pikes Peak Challenge with NO thermal degradation (first production EV to do so!)..... They even ran the 'race' version at a permanent 680hp with no restriction from the battery! You should've got the Ioniq 5N!!
The 5N is a fully engineered performance car from a manufacturer with real understanding of how to do it, the 3 performance is just a faster Tesla with better brakes.
@@NO3V IONIQ 5N is cheaper (bigger discount, lower estimated depreciation = lower lease rate). Range is not an issue for me (and I’ve had M3P, M3 LR, MS, Leaf, Honda e etc etc).
@@BradFreebird Lower depreciation ^^... Sure thing. Having driven a non-N 5, a 6 and a Kona, I wouldn't invest a Cent into a Hyundai EV - even the dealer lady had not a single word of excuse for the RAGE-inducing software in the 6..., but good luck to anybody who tries.
@@NO3V I don’t care about depreciation - the lease is £100 per month cheaper for the 5N, and the 5N is £6k more expensive (list). That is all about discount and projected depreciation by the Lease Co. I couldn’t care less about IONIQ 6 software. I’m considering a 5N or a M3P.
Hopefully we’ll get the Panasonic battery in time, or a better one than the LG at least. It’s probably fine for driving normally, and charging, but not for this.
Circuit with a few straight lines, a lot of low speed curves, and The piloting styles hammering a elétric Car like a gas Car. Probably they were a lot faster at The entrance of The curves, so had to brake a lot harder. With non competitive tires. Its a lot laking to do performance a performance laps
Sorry, but totally disagree. Just did Castle Combe. Battery performance the same. Overheats after 3 or 4 laps. Brakes give a heat warning long before any reduction in braking. The 2020 M3P lost brakes after 2 fast laps, and they went soft. My best lap time was 1.2 seconds faster than the old 2020 M3P. Top speed at the end of the straight +5mph - and this was the only clear flying lap I got on a green track at 77% battery (after a wet start}. By the way, I first raced at Castle Combe in 1985. I know the circuit perfectly. Won the Dick Mayo sprint last year, so my lap times are as good as almost anyone. Far better car than the old 2020 M3P.
What are you disagreeing with? I agree car is good and has the potential but the battery overheat is an issue (which didn’t happen on previous cars). As you had same overheat issue on a separate track it really does cement the fact this battery pack is not fit for purpose unless somehow software updates can fix.. (unlikely I feel)
@@RSEVsame overheating as the previous car not worse. By the way, you said the previous modified car was better, did you try it on standard tyres? I doubt any of the modified cars were on standard tyres. I’ve just done back to back same tyres vs fully modded old M3P with tractive, brembo and adjustable anti-roll bar. The new M3P is quicker and better handling.
@@davebway6371 you say "fully modded old M3p...", but, according to your reply, I dont see any suspension improvement like KW v3, and the brakes you mentioned is a not specified brembo. For a fully modded M3P I would have expected at least a Brembo GT kit (5 k$). So, in my opinion, your comparative between the new M3P 2024 and your fully modded old M3p is not relevant
@@francescodelia4069Tractive suspension is a semi active suspension costing around $15k and it’s the best available. The Brembo brake calipers and disks are also the best available for an M3P so I think it’s your comment that’s not relevant 😂😂😂
@@davebway6371 Could you give a link to your Tractive suspensions and Brembo brake calipers and disks of your M3P? Otherwise I can't evaluate your modding. Thanks
This has elements of misinformation. Regen is at 100% in this video. Regen is known to significantly overheat the battery pack. Instead, regen should be limited or disabled. This will of course increase the heat output onto the brakes, however the brakes should be able to handle it. If not, then an upgrade to a BBK is appropriate for track use.
The Ioniq 5 N does up to 280kw of regen while in track use with no issues whatsoever. Tip claim what you're claiming would just be very sad for the model 3.
Without regen brakes overheat even faster!!!! Misha on Nürburgring had these on fire even with regen on. This car is a joke, not a performance at all! Porsche, Audi, Hyundai doing a better job!
@@neothehackerV2 It doesn’t matter. For serious track need upgraded BBK anyway which will not overheat. The factor brakes are not designed for sustained tracking.
Update:
Tesla have been reviewing the data remotely (which is fantastic!) and can confirm the car has zero faults evident. Coolant pumps etc operating as should.
They can see when battery reaches 60 deg Celsius that the output Kw is reduced.
They have raised to engineering but essentially, unless can somehow be tweaked with software updates, that this is simply a limitation with the car.
Not fit for purpose then…😢
So sad, wonder if they never tested the MIC or MIB and only tested the US cars.
How/who did you insure the car for the track? I’d love to take a polestar 2 onto thruxton when I purchase one one day
It doesn't surprise me. Cylindrical cells just can't get the heat out fast enough due to the surface area to volume ratio of that type of cell. A pouch cell as in the Ioniq 5N is a much better shape for thermal management due to it's inherent design. The MP3 is a great road car, but not great for anything other than one lap flat out on track.
Be interesting to see how the Hyundai N model fairs in similar circumstances. To be fair they don’t sell it as a race car. Having driven a few, they make awful road cars 😂😂
@@techevogiven the previous car didn’t have the same issue with the same design cell I wouldn’t think that’s the whole story. Suspect it’s more to do with the LG cell rather than the 2170 hence why the US cars are rated with more power
Anyway should all be solved when the finally get the CATL Qilin
What colour Ioniq 5N are you going to get?!
What about testing the IONIQ 5 N ?
Great to hear from John, guys definitely knows his stuff 👍
The Ioniq N seems to have good battery cooling. A comparative run would be interesting.
Dont think they are allowed to do a test where a Tesla gets gapped too hard.
@@origaminefretami3480 You likely meant too hard. Already comparisons at Nurburgring by Misha. Like to see info from this track.
Kia EV6 and Ioniq5 N are far better about heat management of the pack. Ioniq5 can drive 2 full laps at Nurb. Power is not everything.
Wow, that’s amazing. How many laps can a petrol car drive at full power?
Lucid’s are far better, they can do as many laps as a petrol car can do until SoC is quite low
Great video (thank you) but a very disappointing performance from the battery pack.😢
Sorry, but what a joke of a performence car. 2 laps on this small circuit, and it´s dead.
Should have got the 5N
Been a long time since I drove round Thruxton. 24 years tbh. But I was Driving a Ferrari 355 and a 360 Modena at the time. Absolutely amazing track👍👍
I ran my 2023 MY Perf on track, default 50/50 track setting, default regen, went a little easy on the brakes as i knew they would be the weak point (not unusual for a heavy street car on stock pads) and the only thing that got into the orange was the battery. tyres, motors, brakes, everything else was fine. Went from 96% SoC to about 20% no power loss, no issues. Agree they handle better than you would expect
Great video Richard and this is what makes me hesitant to purchase one here in Vancouver. I don't like the fact that the battery is different coming out of Shanghai and the Shanghai factory are where all of the Canadian Tesla's are coming from. Build quality and fit and finish may be better but the battery quality is IMPORTANT to me
get a hyundai ionic 5n
Did you try a session with less regen?
Brakes will overheat even quicker
100% will make a big difference
But it's LG chem😢
Brakes would be toast after 3rd curve 😊
Change out the pads for XP10 then all good with lower regen
Regen makes a huge differnece. I drove my 21 mod 3 performance on the ring and when going over 40% regen the battery gets hot. Worth noting that i have aftermarket brakes so i can push them a bit more
Thanks for that video. I was considering this car as my next one. But now I have some thinking to do. Car with a track mode not able to run on a track. Not fit for purpose! Disappointing. Would be interesting to know how the battery temps behave on a German autobahn performing longer highspeed stretches?!
Ionic 5N will be the car for you, but it will also require you depart with 1 testical (due to its increased price)
Very informative video thanks!
I would like to see this car vs the IONIQ 5 N. They are saying the 5 N doesn't overheat.
Doesn't overheat becaue it doesn't preaheat the battery so it start with slower performance. Tesla should add a similar option
@@StefanoFinocchiaro I think there are at least 2 race settings with Ioniq 5 N. Depending on the type of track. I’m waiting for mine to be delivered so will be interesting to investigate
@@juliandclarkethat’s right, not done it on mine yet but there is an N endurance mode that pares back power a little for longer sessions.
@@StefanoFinocchiaro- That's exactly what Tesla does with Track Mode. It COOLS the battery as much as possible, by overclocking the aircon compressor and transferring heat out of the battery coolant and oil system for the motors via the octovalve.
@@techevo No, it warms the battery for maximum performance. It try to keep the battery to a set temperature
Did you ever test the Polestar 2 Performance or BST version on a track? I'm curious how it performs in comparison. The PS2 Performance is comparable in price to the TM3P.
You should definitely test the Ioniq 5 N when you get a chance. From what I have seen it can go on for much longer without issues. The new Polestar 3 and 4 will be interesting as well.
Will you test it against the Hyundai Ioniq 5N? Would be interesting to see :)
Other than 0-60mph the tesla will get slapped on all metrics unfortunately. The panasonic US car would be a better match but still not as capable on track compared ti the N.
@@louisolivierfortin the 5N weighs more than a Model S Plaid. I doubt it.
@@juanmedinar20 I’m just an EV enthusiast who watched like 25 video reviews of the 5N, and it’s unanimous this thing is a beats even if it weighs 4800lbs. Great steering response, great handling, competent on and off track, great top end power (better than m3p with LG battery), etc. Looks like the best package as far as a car that can do it all
The 5N can get to the top of Pikes Peak with no degradation and can cover 2 laps of the Nurburgring Nordschleife at full speed!
There isn't a car currently available from Tesla that can match that.....
@@bryanduncan6178@bryanduncan6178 where did you read that no tesla can make 2 full laps of the Nurburgring? Or no power degradation at pikes peak?
Give me an Ionic 5 N any day and twice on Sunday.
Enjoy your 70,000£ Hyundai:)
£60k M3P plays £65k 5N. Not sure about PCP rates
Its still a hunday
@@bEEBO178 and your point would be?
@@bEEBO178 yep. Solidly built, well engineered Korean product
I wonder if the US-spec battery exhibits similar thermal characteristics
It pretty much does, several shared videos of track runs at Laguna seca shows you get 1 or 2 basically all out laps before.
The stock tires and brakes cause fall off and battery temps cause power reduction to kick in. It does lap with a c8 though for half price. 😀
So it's a much better built and much more capable overall car for cheaper than a pre highland m3p was. But the battery itself&the cooling system, with small for the perf sized brakes and not true high perf tires. Means it's a fun quick canyon carver that costs 55k&runs high 10s.
Vs being anything serious for a fun track day without additional bolt on parts&tires. But that is also true of most ALL vehicle's sold. 😎👍🏻
Also tesla is having problems with cars sitting in the heat outside actually losing miles by just sitting outside and the battery draining. 😂 insanity
@@4literv6that's true for most cars? U can't be serious dude lmfao. 1 or 2 laps around 1 min short tracks like that then it starts overheating and the brakes also go bad? 😂😂 that's true for almost no true sports car in this day and age. Imagine if porsche or bmw had those problems. Their would be massive recall and it would be blown out of this world on car channels .
@@G82Watts that is because the car has cabin overheat protection is on and can be turned off in the settings.
Nice one for showing the truth, Richard. I love my Highland LR but I don’t think any Tesla is track material. You can give it an option called track mode and a few cool settings to fiddle with, but in the end it’s a great, efficient EV for the road which can accelerate very fast to give your family and mates a giggle. It’s not track material.
Sounds like it’ll need cooling mods for extended use, and some of the usual tweaks like the last M3P. Still excited to see the full potential of this car realized
Interesting stuff and John really knew what he was talking about. Hope Tesla can fix this through an update for you.
Looked like default had regenerate at 100% maybe try with regain off. to see how the battery holds up.
I received my M3P Highland ten days ago and have been driving it satisfactorily. However, from a performance and driving fun perspective, the best electric car at the moment is the Ioniq 5 N.
Hyundai has excellent battery temperature control technology and has implemented gear shifting, which is something you usually see in internal combustion cars. It's really impressive.
I have the LR Highland and it is very wobbly and scary above 100mph - bordering dangerous. The mud flaps scrape the ground often so it is pretty soft. My flaps are now half length compared to when new! The MP3 Highland is clearly more composed but a change in tyres etc would help it a lot. I am also wondering if it needs to be driven in a smooth manner rather than drive it like you stole it? Any road based car struggles on track if you drive it like that. My 2012 scooby did 8.1 mpg on track. That was around 80 miles from 70 litres of SUL.
Just redo a measurement of the track of the car. It's much more stable afterwards
So in the UK we get lower power to begin with, and it still overheats in a short distance on track, even in UK temps. Wonder if the US cars with their battery pack fare any better? I was on the fence about chopping my 2020 M3P for one of these or the Ioniq 5N. Went with the Ioniq 5N, a few weeks in and glad i did….. just dropped my 2020 M3P off for sale at RSEV. Check them out if you’re looking for an EV. Great guys!
Same for the us version.
ruclips.net/video/pt3oUzjHxjw/видео.htmlsi=Zc4rFDzrWsaUD4BT
Did you turn off regen mode when you were track testing? I've heard it keeps the battery cooler.
Tesla aren't really interested in making a proper track ready EV, they want to sell millions of cars, and that's their priority. That's not going to change anytime soon. 5 years after the original 2019 M3P, they have only improved the rear motor in regards to performance, and the MIC cars are a backstep in regards to the battery. The battery in the US car is basically the same, and will de-rate after approx 3 minutes on track as it's having to deliver around 80bhp more. Compare that to the Ioniq5N which is pushing 640bhp and can run flat out for 2 laps of the Ring. Disappointing, but the reality of using cylindrical cells.
Then why do they have a track mode and call this a "performance" model? U do realize performance= speed, handling, and braking .. right? Not just a quick acceleration from stop light to stop light. This isn't a perfromance car if that's all it offers. Plus it's top speed is trash
@@G82Watts- I'm talking about the performance of the drivetrain and battery, not the performance of the car as a whole.
@@G82Wattsthe same reason Teslas have 'Track modes'....Elon probably studied other performance cars and two days before releasing the Model 3 he noticed 'these A45s and Bmw M3s...they all have track modes. Put a track mode in the Model 3 whatever that is!'
@@hasangenc2922 lmao. Elon reminds me of all these nerdy tesla owners who review their cars and u can just tell they had no idea about cars till tesla came out. Tech 🤓
@@G82Watts a Tesla can always gap the car of your dreams, though.
Maybe test the Hyundai Ionic 5N in the same track... to show Tesla how it's done. 😆
I wouldn't want to roll in a Hunday
@@bEEBO178 well you wouldn't have the money for it
@@bEEBO178As if an American car is any better.
Maybe an S PLAID will help…
@@valery3418 will fail against the Hyundai too.....just a Tesla
Using original brake pad or change to track brake pad?
Joe with his arms folded after the first run look super cheesed off 😂 nice video, shame on the limitations you found.
Ioniq 5N would leave it behind easily. Not even getting started with an G80...
EX30 review coming?
The Ariel in the background is what I want
Did you turn regen off by any chance?
Without rubbing too much salt in to the wounds, I think the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will best this, not just in endurance over several laps but be more involving and almost certainly more fun with the "gear changes" and "engine braking" effect when slowing and "changing down a gear". These things matter when track driving., and heighten the involvement factor. Its not just about going as fast as possible.
Del Boy is a great driver.
Any regen braking still on, or set to minimal or off?
Was on 100% when they showed the selected Track Mode profile.
1:57
@@NO3VWeird that that is the standard setting. At least they can do a low setting on a personal profile.
@@NO3VAlso makes me wonder if they had the regen on low on the old M3P. Micha recommends having it on low when doing the Nürburgring Nordschleife. 🤔
@@NO3V Oops...that's their problem!!!
Can you provide the specifications of the race? It's really important to know because they can vary significantly between countries, race tracks, and race rules.
1. What was the temperature on that day?
2. How long did each race last in minutes approximately? How much rest did the Tesla have between races, and how many races were there in total?
3. At what points and for how long on the timeline do you really start to loose motor power, and how much power do you loose roughly in percentage terms?
4. The same for braking performance - when do you start to loose performance, how long does it last, and how much performance do you loose?
This information is really interesting to know. Perhaps you mentioned some of this in your video, but I couldn't find it.
I test-drove this Tesla M3P provided by a dealer, and it was intresting. I plan to buy this M3P next year and want to understand its limits. In Poland, we have 18 race tracks, and I've driven on one of them with different cars, which was really cool. Now I'm choosing between the RS3 and the M3P and trying to understand which would be better for me.
It would been nice to have a full screen capture so the data you guys talking about we can see it, and you guys ran with a custom profile with 100% brake regen, reducing that would have save some battery temp.
Is this because of the different battery vs the US ?
Did you leave "ride and Handling" in normal mode?
In Australia later model 3 LR (pre face lift cars) had the LG 79kw packs and the higher internal resistance in my opinion is the issue with heat on track. I managed after a few laps to overheat my battery. I think the Panasonic 82kw with its significantly lower internal resistance can not only charge faster but produce less heat under load. It seems like 55c is optimal for charging and discharging quickly, but 60c they reach their thermal throttling limit.
There's a video on my profile of track use with live battery stats of the LG 79kw pack. And this was back when max draw was 366kw not the ~400kw of the new performance.
Right so it’s crap and show the limitations of EVs as performance cars. I have a model Y performance and really enjoy it. But if I’m going to go on a track I want a proper car, this isn’t it. 30 miles in just over 50% battery? That’s pathetic.
It's the EU batteries. The panasonic don't have this issue in the US.
This car is just not meant for racing. Its more a gimmick (track modus).
Cooling is always a big issue of electric cars. The ionic 5n does it a bit better and the porsche also.
I was pretty amazed that Lucid had such good cooling. With Teslas its just not very good. You can try tuning and modding it to get better temps maybe.
My take is that 'Race Cars' are irrelevant now since Ice cars no longer need to be optimised. I still want an EV that looks like 'Race Car' but is for the road and also has very impressive acceleration.
How did the tires hold up?
You need regen braking off. Also the Lg battery that comes in the EU/Asia version has these problems unfortunately. The US Panasonic version is fantastic tho
I wonder if this is just an issue with the LG packs outside North America. Just watched a video of a guy doing a track test in 100 degree F temp (California) and the motors got orange, but the battery temp was fine. Will be interesting to see the difference between the Panasonic and the LG packs.
Just watched a video of a American Model 3 overheating as well after a fast lap.
US M3P overheating and limiting after 1 minute 20 seconds. Embarrassing!
I hope they will fix this issue with future updated m3p, next year perhaps?
테슬라에서 트랙패키지가 없어도 트랙을 달릴 수 있게 만들었다더니 거짓말이네 ㅋㅋ
기술적으로 그게 가능했으면 이번에 5n이 기록세운 파익스피크에 나왔겠죠ㅎㅎ
The 3 is not a track car and it was not built for this purpose.
It's what Lars said in that JP interview.
Adding to that the unfortunate LG battery.
Do you plan to review the Volvo EX30 twin motor?
Yes! I have one at work waiting but not even had time to drive it yet. Coming soon
Awesome, can’t wait! We’ve had our twin motor performance EX30 for a few weeks and it’s blown us away. Crazy performance and build quality for the money. Would be fun to see how it compares on track.
@@Martin-dx5zs what do you think of the infotainment system? And the screen itself?
Do you also have the 1sec acceleration lag when you accelerate?
Infotainment has been solid for us; buttery smooth. It’s also pin sharp. In terms of the throttle lag, that only occurs in normal mode (not AWD performance mode where the front motor is permanently engaged).
Just get a 5N if you like a fun EV. Teslas just arent it.
That’s pretty piss poor for a £60k car which is supposed to be a performance car
Their is a better version where an actual driver has done
It’s not a bargain at all in the uk that’s ridiculous that it’s equivalent to 76k US. I got mine for 46k US after tax credit which is insane. And I have more peak power than them.
@@israelmercado9692 in the Us with tax credits it’s a good buy for a fast car. Problem starts though when you drive it fast. You can cook the breaks and the battery it seems. That could kill you if you fade brakes in the wrong corner
Its not really a Performance car. Its just quick.
From what i gather in informations.
1. Brakes are not really better. Ususal tesla lies on all models. See Model S Plaid.
2. Same Battery. So more stress for the battery unit. The US Version has a new battery and better power output
3. Adaptive suspension
4. Sportier seats.
Conculsion. Still far away from being a trackday car.
I've seen no evidence that the US version got a new battery, same as the previous long-range/performance cars
Seats directly copied from the Bmw M3 G80.
Hi Richard - When you get data from the US-version, I hope you will do an update video about how much difference the two battery packs makes on tracks. !
A lot. but also they had regen on 100%. should be near off.
Interesting to compare to Ioniq 5N
Ioniq would unfortunately leave it behind… better high end speed, sustainable energy. Maybe braking not quite as good as its heavier but in reality it would trail the 5n I’m quite sure
@@RSEVthe Ioniq does up to 280kw of regen on braking so I don't think the brakes would be worse compared. It delivers impressive numbers everywhere it is tried right now
Left foot breaking possible?
Track racing is to much to handle for any Tesla.
You clearly haven't seen the track pack plaid
@@mikaelvellmun7228True. That one overheats after 1.5 ringlaps, not just half a ringlap.
@@mikaelvellmun72282.2 ton track car 😂 yeah right
I knew this would be a problem with the car because the lead engineer said it would be.. but it still hurts to see. Tesla needs a proper track day model.
No they dont. Teslas arent built for serious racing, its notb the brands intention.
@@hasangenc2922
If you want to look at it from a cold, business perspective, sure.. But I'm just saying, from a consumer POV, we need a Telsa that doesn't power limit after 3 laps..
@@chewthegumwe certainly dont need it, its a Tesla, not an M3, not a 5N, and not a Porsche or Amg. Its like a Corolla, just quicker. Cheap to maintain, quick, boring. Racing isnt what Tesla does.
@@Euromasterrace5000
My point is that it doesn't have to be that way.. They could make an easy to maintain, fast, and fun Model 3. There's no reason they couldn't other than "it wouldn't sell well".
I'm not saying they need to change their entire lineup. All I'm saying, is Tesla should have an "N", "M", or "AMG" esque performance trim.
That's why I am buying an ioniq 5 n
Learned a lot from your mistakes. Thanks.
Ha! Love that you're doing that there. My mate works there, which is nice.
The Model 3 Performance without the Performance. Typical Tesla.
This is the difference between LG and Panasonic batteries. Pre 2022 M3P used Panasonic batteries in Europe, after that they are all LG - including on the new 2024. The LG batteries have DOUBLE the internal resistance of the Panasonic's, meaning they will get much hotter far quicker when under continuous load like on a track.
Yeah even though it’s a performance car it’s not a dedicated track car and that track had no let up for the battery to cool down or recover with slow chicanes etc. like other comments was the regen the issue? You need to drive it like a normal road car not a race car.
I've test drove one today. For everyday use its not worth the upgrade in price over the Standard range and nevermind the LR. It will be LR with 19" wheels for me.
I've driven many different cars and bikes on track and I can't say that I've ever wanted to drive any electric (road) car around any track. Regardless of the weight, there's no engine noise which is surely one of the joys of driving a car on track? Having also worked at a circuit for a couple of years, I could count on one hand, the number of people driving their 'road car' on circuit and I can't imagine many people building a Tesla racetrack only car.
Shame about the battery problems but it seems Tesla did not spend a lot of time developing their performance model 3 for on-circuit use.
It’s better than the modified old M3P. I’ve had both, and this is faster with battery performance much the same. Come to Castle Combe and I’ll show you.
The LG pack definitely has a higher internal resistance, resulting in decreased charge and discharge performance when compared to the Panasonic variant.
What is the LG resistance and the Panasonic’s?
Both versions are overheating after just 1 lap.
Just had one of these on loan for the weekend. Not sure how they have managed this, but for all the improvements it somehow feels ‘cheaper’ than the last 2 generations of M3P.
Whilst the cabin is well insulated from external noise, the NVH coming through the chassis when moving is simply not good enough. Tyre roar is one thing, but the noise from the suspension and in particular the front motor is very disappointing.
Not convinced by the adaptive dampers - a 200 mile round trip down a mix of country roads, A roads, the M1 and driving into central London revealed a hard ride with sharp ridges being transmitted straight through the cabin (in standard mode). Sport mode was obviously worse.
The new sports seats creak, and the noises of plastic on plastic coming from the dash area make it sound like one of those cassette trays from the 80’s is installed somewhere.
The wheel trim aero pieces are also an issue - if you drive with the window open next to wall you can hear them rattling.
Overall disappointing - it looks better, and they have addressed a number of previous issues but seemingly created more in the process.
Worst of all, UK cars come with a compromised battery pack (see track overheating and reduced performance vs US cars).
Unacceptable the prices other countries pay for this car - even more so at UK prices.
Model 3LR is the smart choice if you must have a model 3 - even more so if/when acceleration boost is introduced. Lease rates seem to be £250 per month less that he M3P. I don’t buy the ‘Performance’ credentials of this M3P - they appear to be more cosmetic that of any real value day to day, and as RSEV has proved, not of any real advantage for the occasional track day.
My money will be heading in the direction the Hyundai IONIC 5N.
is it technologically possible to implement nitrogen cooling system in EVs? that would solve the problem for battery for once & for all
It’s not a Porsche. It’s only a Tesla.
True, Porsches are slower in aceleration so they focus more on corners.
@@sorinelpustiu5674 Depends on the model. The new Turbo S is fast. And the power output is consistent through the different battery levels.
Better a good secondhand Taycan that a new Tesla costing the same money.
@@cuisleproperties6351 the issue is that the taycan sucks as an actual EV but is good on the track,so it depends what you need.
Teslas are nr1 by far as actual EVs on the road but not so good on the track.
Ive been to the track twice in my life so I think having a car that can do car things is more important
It costs a third, compared to a Porsche 🤷🏼♂️
@@cuisleproperties6351So is the output on a Plaid.
But hard to tell if you have never driven one extensively
got it, if I want a track car, get the Model S Plaid with track package.
Would still need to tweak it with third party mods, but at least they do offer the $20k ceramics on that trim; for this one you would need to go to third party for them, along with more track oriented suspension/cooling.
Track racing can be an expensive hobby.
@@somethingclever1234 no, get an IONIQ 5N
Or a Hyundai Ioniq 5N
@@KsNozexactly what I was thinking
Plaid is a boat built for drag racing and that's about it, unless you plan on doing significant mods.
I’m a big fan of Tesla however this is a massive disappointment and I agree with you not fit for purpose. You have all the software under the Sun so you can go happily round of track on a track day only for it not to perform😡
Wow they’re gonna get some recalls. I like it too getting a radio control car at Christmas unwrapping it out of the box charging the battery and with great anticipation you get one minute to use it things haven’t come on since the eighties to be fair and I really don’t wanna say the obvious , you wouldn’t get this from an ice car
Should have got the 5N!!!
Really disappointed that you didn’t see the increased performance on track that I have seen.
It feels better, brakes better, but top end speed not notable but then didn’t get chance to really stretch because battery overheats just as getting everything else warmed up.
You got a 10 second car. Shuts off after 10 seconds 😂
My 21-plate model 3 long range lease is up the end of July… I was looking at treating myself to the performance Model 3… but having watched this… I'm not sure it is worth the extra £420 per month over a long range
How often do your race/track?
Get the EV6.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5N has just done the Pikes Peak Challenge with NO thermal degradation (first production EV to do so!).....
They even ran the 'race' version at a permanent 680hp with no restriction from the battery!
You should've got the Ioniq 5N!!
Yeah and it’s done 2 laps of Nurburgring back to back no issues… this m3p wouldn’t be able to do that
The 5N is a fully engineered performance car from a manufacturer with real understanding of how to do it, the 3 performance is just a faster Tesla with better brakes.
Production cars need to be modded for serious track use.
Thats why i use my production motorbike on the road, and my track bike on the track, Duh
Same is happening for the US version.
ruclips.net/video/pt3oUzjHxjw/видео.htmlsi=Zc4rFDzrWsaUD4BT
Damn. Thats....embarassing
Looks like the Panasonic batteries are far superior to the LG ones, I wonder if the 82kw Panasonic battery from a 21 plate performance car would fit 🤔
That still overheats as well. US drivers have reported driving at Laguna Seca
IONIQ 5 N is looking increasingly to be the better choice. Hopefully something coming soon on CARWOW channel.
If you are fine with paying much more (in most places) and abysmal efficiency, sure.
@@NO3V IONIQ 5N is cheaper (bigger discount, lower estimated depreciation = lower lease rate). Range is not an issue for me (and I’ve had M3P, M3 LR, MS, Leaf, Honda e etc etc).
@@BradFreebird Lower depreciation ^^...
Sure thing.
Having driven a non-N 5, a 6 and a Kona, I wouldn't invest a Cent into a Hyundai EV - even the dealer lady had not a single word of excuse for the RAGE-inducing software in the 6..., but good luck to anybody who tries.
If it just wasnt so ugly.
Even if the M3P is not as good on a track id still choose the Tesla because of the looks.
@@NO3V I don’t care about depreciation - the lease is £100 per month cheaper for the 5N, and the 5N is £6k more expensive (list). That is all about discount and projected depreciation by the Lease Co. I couldn’t care less about IONIQ 6 software. I’m considering a 5N or a M3P.
Turn off regenerative braking and use the brakes more.
Oberheats breakes even faster.
Shame about that Richard. As a by I thought you might be at the Tesla Owners Club day at Bicester Heritage on Saturday.
Great video
At the end of the day, its just a Tesla. Not a Performance car, just a quicker american Corolla.
Hopefully we’ll get the Panasonic battery in time, or a better one than the LG at least. It’s probably fine for driving normally, and charging, but not for this.
That jerking of steering wheel on fast corner. 👀 Is it having electric power steereing?
What type battery is in this one? LFP?
Circuit with a few straight lines, a lot of low speed curves, and The piloting styles hammering a elétric Car like a gas Car. Probably they were a lot faster at The entrance of The curves, so had to brake a lot harder. With non competitive tires. Its a lot laking to do performance a performance laps
Since this is the fastest track in the UK I wonder how much longer, if any, it would last on slower ones.
You should of got the 5 N , that wouldn’t break on the track
Sorry, but totally disagree. Just did Castle Combe. Battery performance the same. Overheats after 3 or 4 laps. Brakes give a heat warning long before any reduction in braking. The 2020 M3P lost brakes after 2 fast laps, and they went soft. My best lap time was 1.2 seconds faster than the old 2020 M3P. Top speed at the end of the straight +5mph - and this was the only clear flying lap I got on a green track at 77% battery (after a wet start}.
By the way, I first raced at Castle Combe in 1985. I know the circuit perfectly. Won the Dick Mayo sprint last year, so my lap times are as good as almost anyone. Far better car than the old 2020 M3P.
What are you disagreeing with?
I agree car is good and has the potential but the battery overheat is an issue (which didn’t happen on previous cars).
As you had same overheat issue on a separate track it really does cement the fact this battery pack is not fit for purpose unless somehow software updates can fix.. (unlikely I feel)
@@RSEVsame overheating as the previous car not worse. By the way, you said the previous modified car was better, did you try it on standard tyres? I doubt any of the modified cars were on standard tyres. I’ve just done back to back same tyres vs fully modded old M3P with tractive, brembo and adjustable anti-roll bar. The new M3P is quicker and better handling.
@@davebway6371 you say "fully modded old M3p...", but, according to your reply, I dont see any suspension improvement like KW v3, and the brakes you mentioned is a not specified brembo. For a fully modded M3P I would have expected at least a Brembo GT kit (5 k$). So, in my opinion, your comparative between the new M3P 2024 and your fully modded old M3p is not relevant
@@francescodelia4069Tractive suspension is a semi active suspension costing around $15k and it’s the best available. The Brembo brake calipers and disks are also the best available for an M3P so I think it’s your comment that’s not relevant 😂😂😂
@@davebway6371 Could you give a link to your Tractive suspensions and Brembo brake calipers and disks of your M3P? Otherwise I can't evaluate your modding. Thanks
Brakes overheat on the track
Cool
This has elements of misinformation. Regen is at 100% in this video. Regen is known to significantly overheat the battery pack. Instead, regen should be limited or disabled. This will of course increase the heat output onto the brakes, however the brakes should be able to handle it. If not, then an upgrade to a BBK is appropriate for track use.
The Ioniq 5 N does up to 280kw of regen while in track use with no issues whatsoever. Tip claim what you're claiming would just be very sad for the model 3.
Without regen brakes overheat even faster!!!! Misha on Nürburgring had these on fire even with regen on. This car is a joke, not a performance at all! Porsche, Audi, Hyundai doing a better job!
@@neothehackerV2 It doesn’t matter. For serious track need upgraded BBK anyway which will not overheat. The factor brakes are not designed for sustained tracking.
Time to break into the cooling circuit and re-pipe it through a dry-ice pack. 😅