3:23 SORTA cares? Listen, I don't wanna be that dude, but Dedede definitely cares about Kirby. He stopped being a villain since the very first game, and nowadays he's just a good guy. He does care, a lot, abou Kirby. They're not enemies, they're friendly rivals, leaning more on the ”friendly” part. More people should learn this.
Oh I was able to fit it in my pockets by taking the joycons off, putting just the screen in 1 pocket and the joycons in the other. That's how I made it portable enough to go in my pocket and that worked
I know it doesn't count, but Subspace Emissary would be an easy elite. Dedede's the only reason Tabuu doesn't just immediately win when he off-waves everybody 3/4 of the way through the game, & he even smacks down Bowser along the way.
King Dedede is like the opposite of the "the final boss when I fight him (tough), the final boss when I unlock him as a playable character (weak)" meme.
I'm really looking forward to this video. I hope you do more of this series with Korby characters, specificallt Meta Knight. Sometimes he's the goat, other times he does nothing to help with the main plot even though hes a good guy.
You can see in crystal shards from Kirby's face that he thinks here we go again. You can expect King Dedede to be possessed in every new game, it has become something of a running joke
I know it doesn't really count as a Kirby game, but in Smash Bros Brawl he'd be elite I think in Subspace Emmissary story due to his badge plan leading to the bad guy being defeated in the end. And the game sort of feels like a kirby game in a way with the way the story plays out without dialog. Probably not surprising considering Kirby's creator was in charge of the game.
I would give some more merit to forgotten land dedede, since he is just brainwashed and not controlled/possessed, it means that the boss fights were his own power, and he is way more dangerous than in revenge of the king where you put him in elite. Also for the second fight, dedede is already actively fighting the brainwashing, that is why he is wearing a mask, it keeps him even more brainwashed
Wanna add too, he held off all the beast pack there on his own, and made it out all intact. I think he was defo a lot stronger despite being brainwashed most of the game
Forgot about the times when Dedede is an ally in the intro. Hell, he was at peak good guy during Brawl, but that probably doesn't count for the list since it's not a Kirby game. In any case... "This paints him as super helpless-" Kirby just soundly kicked his ass and the dude is still trying to stop Kirby from putting the Star Rod back for the good of the people of Dream Land/Popstar. Also Dedede didn't really help Kirby fight Nightmare. Just shot him off in the right direction and let Kirby do all the work, really. So I guess it balances out to still be 'sorta useful', but still. Yeah, how dare King Dedede just lie there after having the shit kicked out of him by Kirby. Not saying that he's not worthless in Dream Land 2 but seems a bit unfair to say that he's 'just lying there' when he got the shit kicked out of him due to something he hadn't even done. "Sorta cares about Kirby" Well, yeah. Deep down, aside from the first game (and Spring Breeze) Dedede does care about the people of Dream Land/Popstar. You know, as a king should be. And that includes Kirby. Also despite their differences he does know that Kirby is generally doing the right thing, or at least, does the right thing in the end, and after having spent several games being possessed, it makes sense he'd want to do something to help out. ...I'm questioning if Epic Yarn should even be on this list since it's definitely more of a spin-off than a mainline game, especially since it didn't start off life as a Kirby game at all and definitely doesn't fit the usual Kirby gameplay style. I wouldn't say that Dedede is 'just as useful' as Kirby, considering he is locked to the Hammer ability, but yeah, Epic all the same. "These guys don't get along all that well-" *clears throat and points at Crystal Shards and Return to Dreamland* Literally the only times they've fought since Dream Land is down to misunderstandings and Dedede getting possessed. ...Well that and Revenge of the King, but still. I dunno if he was full-on possessed in Forgotten Land... or at least, not in the same way as with other fights where he was possessed or directly controlled. It seems more like he was possessed by the thing he was being possessed by wasn't directly controlling him like with Dark Matter. He was still being left to fight the way he would. He does go kinda apeshit in the second phase of his second fight but he is still doing the fighting rather than someone using him as a puppet. It's more like he was driven mad than being possessed. And as we see, he's come a long way as a king from when he was stealing everyone's food for himself.
One thing that I do like in Forgotten Land is that in the snowy levels, right before the DeDeDe fight, there’s a bridge level where Meta Knight stayed to patrol (it’s an Easter egg), however it states that he could not go further because of some « great power » showing that DeDeDe became way stronger than usual even at the first fight.
*Ok, my favorite DD is Forgetten Land.* *No seriously, even if he is possessed again, I love how the ost and how they developed him, the problem is that he is not playable as a character.*
Okay, one thing about Forgotten Land you forgot: Dedede WON the battle against the army of the Beast Pack. He don't just hold them off, he 100% defeated an entire ARMY of Beast Pack members. Now, I dunno if that would have been a deciding factor for Kirby defeating Fecto Forgo and such, but at the very least, he ensured Kirby could take on the remaining bosses 1v1. I think that makes him more than just 'Sorta Useful.' Maybe not Elite, but definitely Pretty Capable.
I think for KatFL he should be more useful because If I recall correctly he helped make Waddle Dee Town which was the main base of operations for the entire game.
I'd argue Forgotten Land Dedede be moved up to Pretty Capable. He sacrificed his own life for one Waddle Dee, something the old Dedede would never have done. Especially since at the end of the game all that happens to the king is he gets exhausted and just lounges in front of the Arena.
Shouldn't Kirby's Dreamland 2, 3 and epic yarn be in "barely does anything"? I mean, fighting you is at least doing something, even if he's being controlled... Btw you missed canvas curse, mass attack and the rainbow curse.
Fun fact: Since Kirby Super Star/Super Star Ultra comes before rhe Amazing Mirror (chronologically speaking), and since Meta Knight defeated Galacta Knight, and then later he gets defeated by Dark Meta Knight, who later Dedede defeats in Triple Deluxe, it is implied that King dedede could also defeat Galacta Knight on his own, putting him in the top alongside Meta Knight and Kirby in power.
You forgot to mention that that one troops loyalty the dialogue shows him sticking with dedede and after dedede tells him to leave Kirby encounters him in a pretty easy fight only to be seen witnessing dedede get beat and walk away with him after his defeat
I feel Dedede Tour deserves a bit more credit since it contains the games actual ending where Dedede uncovers that Dark Meta Knight used the Amazing Mirror to brainwash Queen Sectonia and pushes his shit in before destroying the mirror.
If forgotten land dedede doesn’t go into elite tier for saving some random waddle dee because he’s just that cool of a character right now then I’m going to tell you a lot of unsettling facts
Okay this is an awesome list. Damn I actually haven't played that much of Kirby and the forgotten Land. I tried live streaming it on day one when I got it but because Josh scorcher also known as fiery joker was live streaming it at the same time almost nobody watched my live stream at all and I was planning on live streaming some more at a later time but just never got around to it and for some reason haven't actually played it again since. I don't think I need the live stream it for any reason because nobody's going to watch it but perhaps I should just play through the rest of the game when I have some time off.
In squeak squad, we see that the chest has dark nebula, the ruler of the underworld, in it. it’s in dededes castle. so the only logical explanation is that he sealed dark nebula and deserves a higher tier.
What about Games Like Canvas Curse and Battle arena game or The others. He has big roles there. I mean HES THE MAIN ATTRACTION FOR YHE BATTLE ARENA GAME.
Can we talk about how 'Revenge of the King' in SSU is literally just D-man stealing Meta Knight's entire playbook from Super Star Forgotten Land Dedede is best Dedede, matched only by Brawl Subspace Emissary Dedede
In the videos where Tails, Knuckles and Amy in Frontiers maybe put them a little bit higher yes you can only play as them after you beat the game in update 3 but they did help Sonic get all the chaos Emeralds in the final update so maybe put them 1 or two tiers higher
Hi there. I was just hoping to get permission to use your king dedede clip here in one of my Nintendo videos. The concept is using Nintendo characters to build wealth (i.e. getting their positive traits). Let me know if this is a problem or how to acknowledge you etc. Thank you so much! :)
King Dedede is a very funny villain in any Kirby Games! He's also very entertaining in Kirby Right Back At Ya along with his henchman Escargoon. Also I'm not sure how useless King Dedede really is to be honest.😂🤔
With how often he gets possessed, Dedede has more in common with Princess Peach and Zelda than he does Bowser and Ganon.
Facts 💯
If anything he's closer to Eggman
@@painvillegaming4119Eggman gets betrayed a lot, but never posessed
@@alexbaribeault yeah
@@painvillegaming4119 nah unlike dedede eggman is still evil
3:23 SORTA cares?
Listen, I don't wanna be that dude, but Dedede definitely cares about Kirby. He stopped being a villain since the very first game, and nowadays he's just a good guy. He does care, a lot, abou Kirby.
They're not enemies, they're friendly rivals, leaning more on the ”friendly” part. More people should learn this.
Yeah I agree, Dedede is the most misunderstood character in all of nintendo
Isn't he stopped being evil after Revenge of King in KSSU?
@@Magne_Sium That was just the end of his grudge with Kirby, he stopped being evil way before that.
They’re frenemys
@@zjodnthedummi No, there's a huge difference between frenemies and friendly rivals.
An example of frenemies would be Mario and Bowser.
Sacrifice: C-
Playable: S+
I was thinking that sacrificing yourself for the safety of the hero should be S++ lol
Dedede is forgotten land should have been elite for his sacrifice
great video, but unfortunately i'm left thinking… if only there were a convenient solution for taking my nintendo switch on the go
Man… they could make it smaller for… like boys. Gaming on the go, like some sort or mobile child… game kid…
@@jackryan444game boy?
@@SonicTheHedgehogX15 nah. Nah… like gear you take… like game gear, like a cat on the prowl… like a lynx.
EXCELERATE GAMING PORTABLE SWITCH DOCK
Oh I was able to fit it in my pockets by taking the joycons off, putting just the screen in 1 pocket and the joycons in the other. That's how I made it portable enough to go in my pocket and that worked
I feel like King Dedede needs some therapy to get over that there brainwashing.
Agreed lol
@disneyvillainsfan1666 How can I help you, King Dedede?
*I need a monster to clobber dat dere PTSD!*
I'm sorry sir, this is a Wendy's
HEY PTSD I STOLE YOUR AWFUL CAKE!!
At least half of the Kirby cast needs therapy, and that is a VERY generous estimate.
@@SortaNonymous Yeah, Kirby himself too honestly lmao
Bro was possessed 1000000 times
Won’t be surprised if that happens in the next Kirby game
I know it doesn't count, but Subspace Emissary would be an easy elite. Dedede's the only reason Tabuu doesn't just immediately win when he off-waves everybody 3/4 of the way through the game, & he even smacks down Bowser along the way.
"Sakurai's Character does something important" cliche
-An "Everything Wrong With" vid.... maybe
@@DarkFrozenDepthsah yes, a Chariii5 enjoyer.
@@DarkFrozenDepths Except Sakurai didn't write the whole SSE story on his own. And we have no proof that he created Dedede.
@@BooDestroyer yeah, wrong time to go "umm ackually"
@@DarkFrozenDepths Your assumptions aren't official/confirmed fact.
King Dedede is like the opposite of the "the final boss when I fight him (tough), the final boss when I unlock him as a playable character (weak)" meme.
I'm really looking forward to this video. I hope you do more of this series with Korby characters, specificallt Meta Knight. Sometimes he's the goat, other times he does nothing to help with the main plot even though hes a good guy.
Hope you enjoyed it!
He gets possessed HOW many times?
My Penguin in Sakurai, this isn't the Evil Dead.
Kirby has way more fcked up things that Evil Dead bruh.
There's literally a death cult in Star Allies
@@Neonclown_7 Too right, someone on the Kirby team needs a therapist.
@@FireLight_Zero shinya kumazaki... to this day no one knows whats going through his mind to be coming up with all these ideas
@@leedlelel2373 He has said many times that he's a fan of the cosmic horror, so that explains it.
@@FireLight_Zero Honestly the whole Kirby team needs therapy after all that
You can see in crystal shards from Kirby's face that he thinks here we go again. You can expect King Dedede to be possessed in every new game, it has become something of a running joke
I know it doesn't really count as a Kirby game, but in Smash Bros Brawl he'd be elite I think in Subspace Emmissary story due to his badge plan leading to the bad guy being defeated in the end. And the game sort of feels like a kirby game in a way with the way the story plays out without dialog. Probably not surprising considering Kirby's creator was in charge of the game.
I would give some more merit to forgotten land dedede, since he is just brainwashed and not controlled/possessed, it means that the boss fights were his own power, and he is way more dangerous than in revenge of the king where you put him in elite. Also for the second fight, dedede is already actively fighting the brainwashing, that is why he is wearing a mask, it keeps him even more brainwashed
Wanna add too, he held off all the beast pack there on his own, and made it out all intact. I think he was defo a lot stronger despite being brainwashed most of the game
@@icykuikinu6757 That fits un with the fact that he's considered the most powerful lifeform of Popstar, barring Meta Knight and Kirby.
0:07 "Other times he is just an a$$hole" got me laughing so hard
Now we finally get to see how useless the giant penguin is.
Your ranking is spot-on, and the examples you used were perfect.
Forgot about the times when Dedede is an ally in the intro. Hell, he was at peak good guy during Brawl, but that probably doesn't count for the list since it's not a Kirby game.
In any case...
"This paints him as super helpless-" Kirby just soundly kicked his ass and the dude is still trying to stop Kirby from putting the Star Rod back for the good of the people of Dream Land/Popstar. Also Dedede didn't really help Kirby fight Nightmare. Just shot him off in the right direction and let Kirby do all the work, really. So I guess it balances out to still be 'sorta useful', but still.
Yeah, how dare King Dedede just lie there after having the shit kicked out of him by Kirby. Not saying that he's not worthless in Dream Land 2 but seems a bit unfair to say that he's 'just lying there' when he got the shit kicked out of him due to something he hadn't even done.
"Sorta cares about Kirby" Well, yeah. Deep down, aside from the first game (and Spring Breeze) Dedede does care about the people of Dream Land/Popstar. You know, as a king should be. And that includes Kirby. Also despite their differences he does know that Kirby is generally doing the right thing, or at least, does the right thing in the end, and after having spent several games being possessed, it makes sense he'd want to do something to help out.
...I'm questioning if Epic Yarn should even be on this list since it's definitely more of a spin-off than a mainline game, especially since it didn't start off life as a Kirby game at all and definitely doesn't fit the usual Kirby gameplay style.
I wouldn't say that Dedede is 'just as useful' as Kirby, considering he is locked to the Hammer ability, but yeah, Epic all the same.
"These guys don't get along all that well-" *clears throat and points at Crystal Shards and Return to Dreamland* Literally the only times they've fought since Dream Land is down to misunderstandings and Dedede getting possessed. ...Well that and Revenge of the King, but still.
I dunno if he was full-on possessed in Forgotten Land... or at least, not in the same way as with other fights where he was possessed or directly controlled. It seems more like he was possessed by the thing he was being possessed by wasn't directly controlling him like with Dark Matter. He was still being left to fight the way he would. He does go kinda apeshit in the second phase of his second fight but he is still doing the fighting rather than someone using him as a puppet. It's more like he was driven mad than being possessed. And as we see, he's come a long way as a king from when he was stealing everyone's food for himself.
I literally just went through the playlist of 14 and damn near had my jaw fell off when I saw this
One thing that I do like in Forgotten Land is that in the snowy levels, right before the DeDeDe fight, there’s a bridge level where Meta Knight stayed to patrol (it’s an Easter egg), however it states that he could not go further because of some « great power » showing that DeDeDe became way stronger than usual even at the first fight.
For a fat penguin with a Cartman hat Dedede can be surprisingly badass
Peach = *The best ruler at getting kidnapped.*
Dedede = *The best ruler at getting possessed*
Fun fact if you slow down the game then you can see that it is a waddle dee that steals the cake so maybe it is king dedede after all
Its not, it could've been a rogue Waddle Dee, we don't know, not all Waddle Dee's work for King Dedede.
@@ingothasnolife8040 Let em know.
1:41 it's less of a miscommunication and more of a character won't let other character explain why they did what they did
*Ok, my favorite DD is Forgetten Land.*
*No seriously, even if he is possessed again, I love how the ost and how they developed him, the problem is that he is not playable as a character.*
U forgot a D brother.
@@Neonclown_7third D is dededead
the only reason he was probably laying there in Dreamland 3 was probably because he was tired so leave him alone 2:17
Okay, one thing about Forgotten Land you forgot: Dedede WON the battle against the army of the Beast Pack. He don't just hold them off, he 100% defeated an entire ARMY of Beast Pack members. Now, I dunno if that would have been a deciding factor for Kirby defeating Fecto Forgo and such, but at the very least, he ensured Kirby could take on the remaining bosses 1v1. I think that makes him more than just 'Sorta Useful.' Maybe not Elite, but definitely Pretty Capable.
I think for KatFL he should be more useful because If I recall correctly he helped make Waddle Dee Town which was the main base of operations for the entire game.
A video about sakuri’s greatest gift to mankind
Hey, at least Dedede's character development was pretty good.
@@TheBlazingBronzeBro Facts
3:57 WADDLE DEE you sneaky thief!
“Commit bad” is such a phenomenal description. I’m stealing it
Just a small correction that Epic Yarn is considered a spin-off rather than a mainline game, but nice video!
You’re right, but it’s one of my favorite Kirby games, and it’s the same genre as the others, so I counted it 👍
King dedede in smash bros brawls au space emissary was literally the savior of the entire smash cast at the time! Elite please and thank you!
We all know Dedede is basically a Tsundere. He's not showing it outright, but he does care for his people... in his own weird way.
do you Remember my Idea of ranking how useful every playable Super Smash Bros Brawl character was in Subspace Emissary?
THE LEGEND HAS POSTED !!
new sub who started watching like 2 weeks ago here lol
Thank you for your support!
I'd argue Forgotten Land Dedede be moved up to Pretty Capable.
He sacrificed his own life for one Waddle Dee, something the old Dedede would never have done. Especially since at the end of the game all that happens to the king is he gets exhausted and just lounges in front of the Arena.
I love it!! I can understand most of your ratings❤
Shouldn't Kirby's Dreamland 2, 3 and epic yarn be in "barely does anything"?
I mean, fighting you is at least doing something, even if he's being controlled...
Btw you missed canvas curse, mass attack and the rainbow curse.
Fun fact: Since Kirby Super Star/Super Star Ultra comes before rhe Amazing Mirror (chronologically speaking), and since Meta Knight defeated Galacta Knight, and then later he gets defeated by Dark Meta Knight, who later Dedede defeats in Triple Deluxe, it is implied that King dedede could also defeat Galacta Knight on his own, putting him in the top alongside Meta Knight and Kirby in power.
You forgot to mention that that one troops loyalty the dialogue shows him sticking with dedede and after dedede tells him to leave Kirby encounters him in a pretty easy fight only to be seen witnessing dedede get beat and walk away with him after his defeat
7:23 Didnt King Dedede also launch Kirby with a cannon at Sectonias vines to help him reach Sectonias final phase?
Yep! He contributed there too, but his help at the end is what boosted his ranking, that really just further solidified it
Fat Penguin learns how to get over fascism and becomes the biggest homie-the series.
You forgot to include getting Kirby to Queen Sectonia during the cannon section.
Dedede will always be the Star of the Show. Dedede is the name you should know!
YES!!! THE MAN!!! THE MYTH!!! THE SWOLEN!!!
Can you do Ranking How Useless Toad is in Every Mario Game and Ranking How Useless Rouge is in Every Sonic Game next? Thx. Also, great vid btw.
as a dedede cosplayer, i say dedede is the most useful cuz he is the main guy that keeps the plot going forward always, so he should be always elite
King dedede in forgotten land being "sorta useful" is wild. You get it? "Wild"
King Dedede try not to get possessed by the main villain: (challenge next to impossible)
I feel Dedede Tour deserves a bit more credit since it contains the games actual ending where Dedede uncovers that Dark Meta Knight used the Amazing Mirror to brainwash Queen Sectonia and pushes his shit in before destroying the mirror.
I'm curious will the next video be on Meta Knight or Waddle Dee
Anyone else think the best telling of Dedede is from Kirby 64?
If forgotten land dedede doesn’t go into elite tier for saving some random waddle dee because he’s just that cool of a character right now then I’m going to tell you a lot of unsettling facts
Video idea Mario kart tour vs sonic speed battle witch one got the better Mobile game
Thank god there’s no sponsor at the end
King D D *D*
Considering basically each kirby game has a different villan, you should rank each main villian by how WORTHLESS they are in their original game
Can we get one for Meta Knight?
Help this vid hit 100k and I will!
Okay this is an awesome list. Damn I actually haven't played that much of Kirby and the forgotten Land. I tried live streaming it on day one when I got it but because Josh scorcher also known as fiery joker was live streaming it at the same time almost nobody watched my live stream at all and I was planning on live streaming some more at a later time but just never got around to it and for some reason haven't actually played it again since. I don't think I need the live stream it for any reason because nobody's going to watch it but perhaps I should just play through the rest of the game when I have some time off.
you seem to have forgotten mass attack and the rainbow games
Masked DDD deserves an elite for the theme alone lmao
Here for the Kirby content
6:27 thats definitely not evil
In squeak squad, we see that the chest has dark nebula, the ruler of the underworld, in it. it’s in dededes castle. so the only logical explanation is that he sealed dark nebula and deserves a higher tier.
Please do a video on the metroid series!!!
How useless was Ridley?
Or how many planets did Samus destroy?
What about Games Like Canvas Curse and Battle arena game or The others. He has big roles there. I mean HES THE MAIN ATTRACTION FOR YHE BATTLE ARENA GAME.
Dedede wasn't in Canvas Curse, so that would be in the Gone Tier. And as for the others, I think he was focusing on the mainline games, not spin-offs.
@@Professor_Lex7 he was in canvas curse. As one of the 4 bosses in that game along with Kracko, Paint Roller, and Drawcia
@@loren6102 OHHH, I'm thinking of Raindow Curse. Sorry, they are similar games.
@@loren6102Uhm no?
That wasn't Dedede, that was a paint clone made by Drawcia.
Proving that penguins should be kings since 1992
actually since the player is the one who actually controls Kirby you're the one who actually screwed up 1:33
Dude sacrifed his image, identity, and self worth to put a demonic entity at bay and he gets "sorta useful"
Poor DDD
I think there should be a tier like "Strong but Possesed" like Knuckles being manipulated by somenone
Can you do toad next?
Or bowser jr, metal sonic or ganondorf.
I love the worthless to Elite series.
Glad you’re enjoying! I’ve got a lot in the works, stay tuned!
1:14 Uh oh
Next video:
Ranking how Useless Cream the Rabbit in Sonic the hedgehog Games
Ranking how Useless Rouge the Bat in Sonic the hedgehog games
I like your videos
Thank you!
What about the subspace Emissary
He was known with a DNA of Slaking and Slakoth
Besides getting possessed Dedede and kirby are pretty much homies lol
I just noticed how similar Dedede voice is to Shyguy
That implies that shy guy would have a southern accent if he talked in the Mario super show
@@AveryTurner-ot9hx right back at ya
Can we talk about how 'Revenge of the King' in SSU is literally just D-man stealing Meta Knight's entire playbook from Super Star
Forgotten Land Dedede is best Dedede, matched only by Brawl Subspace Emissary Dedede
Forgotten land dedede 100% deserves Elite
He’s the most useful in forgotten land because he sacrifices himself
You forgot dedede’s drumdash
1:07 Super helpless? The guy just got walloped by Kirby. Most enemies don't walk away from that!
Was it Hypernova kirby or Supernova? I always got the names mixed up
In the videos where Tails, Knuckles and Amy in Frontiers maybe put them a little bit higher yes you can only play as them after you beat the game in update 3 but they did help Sonic get all the chaos Emeralds in the final update so maybe put them 1 or two tiers higher
Hi there. I was just hoping to get permission to use your king dedede clip here in one of my Nintendo videos. The concept is using Nintendo characters to build wealth (i.e. getting their positive traits). Let me know if this is a problem or how to acknowledge you etc. Thank you so much! :)
Forgot block ball?
Funny because why is King dedede in your villains playlist he's not even a villain he's one of Kirby's best friends
Meta knight needs a teir list
is there even a ranking Kirby video?
Not yet 😁
“useless”
Me for re-
You forgot to mention dedede’s drum dash deluxe
“Every [Series] game” includes spinoffs, therefore the earlier names are lies.
How useless is Proto Man?
I see no E-shop titles on here, which is a shame, you should see Kirby Fighters 2.
King Dedede is a very funny villain in any Kirby Games! He's also very entertaining in Kirby Right Back At Ya along with his henchman Escargoon. Also I'm not sure how useless King Dedede really is to be honest.😂🤔
1:13 (ULTRA MENACING)
Uh oh
I would like the same video with Bandana Waddle Dee but I don't think the character is developed enough to talk about it.
In Kirby star allies u forgot his alternate universe version of him and his still ez with the 3 sisters but without them it’s kinda challenging