The other two are smoke demons who jump first and ask questions never. Marth at least wants to know what they're doing so they can better plan their actions, but when he sees them run ahead he backs them up.
@@hyhyd6135honestly while he is a war hero, he defers most of his tactical planning and decision making to his advisors Malledus and Jagen, as do most fire emblem protagonists who don't also fulfill the tactician role like Byleth or Robin. Marth himself is pretty naively idealistic about war and while he won't run headfirst into danger, his strategic thinking typically amounts to "somehow I won't let anyone die".
I kinda wish Mr Game & Watch and Wolf switch places not only because it's way more convincing but also very fitting considering the fact Fox is determined to stop the ship
A detail I love about Dedede here is that he's portrayed as surprisingly selfless. At first, him misplacing the third badge and finding it on himself seems like a simple gag, but with later context... Dedede removing that badge and putting it on the princess was actually him giving up his own assured safety for the sake of saving someone else. That's... Heartbreaking and heartwarming all at the same time.
I also hate these “useless” tier lists because surely an S tier in uselessness would mean they’re very useless, ie not useful? But then in the video, the higher tiers correlate to more usefulness. I get that the word useless is more attention grabbing, but if the higher tier means a character is more useful, then it would be a tier list on how useful the character is, not useless.
zelda and peach for sure deserve to be a tier higher. Zelda for punching through fox’s windshield and peach for ending a confrontation with a cup of tea and the cinematic masterpiece of her unfazed in the middle of a battlefield
I think you meant to say they deserve to be a tier lower. Actually sabotaging someone whose on your side is less then worthless and only happened because Peach was just lollygagging in the middle of a war zone.
In general they helped take back the Halberd which was spreading the enemies for the Subspace army and was used as a decoy for the crew to get into Subspace. They should get points for that along with everyone else who helped take down Duon
Ike deserved to be in Pretty Important because he is the ONLY ONE to actually hit the Ancient Minister and destory a bomb as well when no one else could.
Imma just disagree with that low Lucas placement. Lucas’ arc carries themes of companionship but I feel the crux of it is believing in one’s own power. When we first see Lucas he’s just walking around the Ruined Zoo until he’s ambushed by a bunch of primids and Porky Statue, he says fuck that and starts running as any sane person would. Ness then appears and saves Lucas from the statue giving Lucas a glimpse of what he could be capable of if he just believed in his own power. Ness gets captured due to Lucas’ fear and Lucas is left to wander alone until he runs into Red who demonstrates power through his bond with Squirtle. Lucas then joins Red on his journey to complete his Pokédex in the hopes that he can become strong like both Red and Ness (and save Ness btw). We are shown Red visibly getting stronger by gaining stronger Pokémon but Lucas is right there with him slowly gaining a new confidence. Lucas gets his revenge on Wario but unfortunately Ness is nowhere to be found so he continues his journey with Red until the Swordsmen fuck up by not finishing Galleum and it’s left to Lucas and Red who have both hit the climax of their arcs. Mentioning Meta-Knight saving them is fine but also note how they got put in that position as well. From there, yeah he doesn’t do much else of note but I still feel he had one of the strongest arcs in Subspace.
I agree with you also lucas destroyed Galleom"s Arm with PK Thunder when it was about to self destruct, sure they were falling to their death but it's better getting blown up, and at least it was trying save himself. something that he didn't mentioned. and the fact that Lucas can destroy galleom's arm but meta Knight, Ike, Marth didn't (who are btw more skilled and more capable than Lucas imo), says a lot of Lucas capabilities
This is very well put! As much as I don't like Ness and Lucas mechanically in Smash, I completely agree that Lucas was done dirty here. He made significant character growth in terms of bravery and readiness to engage in a fight. Yeah, he and PT had to be saved, but only after he stopped both of them getting blown up, while PT was KO'd. Besides, they were only in that position because the swordsmen didn't finish the job. Not fair to knock their placement over someone else's mistake and rectification.
I think Fox is an Elite here. This guy… 1: … confronted the Hailberd THREE TIMES, including once with the Great Fox (his team’s mothership)… 2: … survived a fire when Rayquaza burned his Arwing (his ship) and each time it or the Great Fox crashed (ok, so don’t ask me how he did that)… 3: … rescued and protected Diddy from the aftermentioned Legendary Pokémon and defeated it with his help… 4: … teamed up with him to save Donkey… 5: … played a crucial role in the aftermentioned rescue mission… 6: … dodged a Dark Cannon shot, which eventually led to his attempted kidnapping failing thanks to his teammate… 7: … and helped Sheik/Zelda, Peach, Snake, Lucario and Falco defeat Duon (the giant robot). And the cherry on top of that? Out of all the characters who knew about the Subspace Army, Fox is one of, if not the FIRST, one to have an ally by his side against them (thanks, Falc!). Credits to someone else for mentioning that.
Diddy is in the correct tier, but your description is off; he doesn't drag Fox & Falco along because he's too scared; he drags them along because he wants them to prioritize Donkey's rescue (& because they'd otherwise be going the wrong way to even accomplish _their own_ goals anyhow). Game & Watch is way wrong, though; he's _at least_ Capable-tier.
@@jeremymklinger Do you ever think of remaking these USELESS tier lists after reading comments? (I don't mean that the videos themselves are bad or useless, that's just the common theme of the lists that you make)
@@CaptHayfever Fr and right when they saw and realize what he wanted this whole time they actually help him and give him a lift in the land master so he could go rescue DK
High key, all they did was climb a mountain with Meta Knight. And they only were with him cuz THEY wanted to be the ones who make it to the top first, then they get slammed off the mountain when the ship crashes. HOW THE HECK WERE THESE CHARACTERS MORE USEFUL THAN LUIGI, WHO ACTUALLY HELPED REBUILD THEIR ARMY??
I'm going to argue Bowser being manipulated doesn't actually make him any less important in the story. The way I view the question is "how much would the story change if you removed them?" For example, if you removed Mario, then most of his role could easily be filled by whatever character(s) he's paired up with. Without Bowser and his army, a good amount of the scenes just don't happen.
I hope multiple people get on with why he's completely wrong about Mr Game & Watch's importance. G&W was effectively an additional source of enemies for the SSE, since his body is made of the same material as Subspace. Half the mooks being fought were basically made from his essence. So his freedom (or lack there of) is VERY important to the early and midgame of the setting. All the minions controlling the stolen Halberd were basically made out of Game & Watch juice.
It's very Deus Ex Machina, however if you consider the theory that Sonic was added very late into brawl's development, so probably wasn't able to be put anywhere else in Subspace, but he was such a big deal to have in Smash that they couldn't NOT have him in Subspace, it makes sense that he's there.
I just think it's funny and ironic that he showed up at the last minute, lol. It's almost as if Mario wrote him a letter with them being pals now thanks to the Olympics, asking for some help and he got there 5 seconds later.
My headcanon is that Dr. Eggman revived the ancient evil that is Tabuu (similarly to Chaos and Dark Gaia) before inevitably being overpowered by it. Sonic went on a whole separate adventure and reaches the final boss at the same time as the other characters.
I think dedede should be in a teir of his own called elite+ 1 was smart enough to develop machines that would revive fighters 2 he saved MORE than he thought he would so he was willing to sacrifice himself 3 if he failed he would have gone down a villain 4 he strait up tackled Kirby with a hug 5 an overlooked part he stole warios hovercraft and if he didn’t wario would have stolen many very important fighters 6 he was smart enough to hide the statues from the TRUE villains 7 he beat the crap out of bowser who was trying to stop them ALL BY HIMSELF
While it's not front and center I would say that Samus and Pikachu maybe deserve one rank up. They infiltrate both a resarch facility and a bomb factory implying that, while they're not front and center, they're doing some real damage behind the scenes. At least that's always the impression I've had. After all, why is Ridley there if there's nothing to guard? Also the fact they work so damn well together is fantastic. They also did the Other M Ridely scene correctly way before Other M came out. So points for that too.
I really do like how they made one of the most selfish characters in video games be the most generous and heroic (King Dedede btw). Especially since at that point, he was still being portrayed as mainly as an antagonistic figure that halts Kirby's process every now and again lol
I mean, he accidentally causes the events of Kirby’s adventure (and seals Nightmare), and helps the crew in Kirby 64. There were hints that he was heroic before, just way too selfish. It wasn’t until Return to Dreamland (the second installment in the franchise after Brawl) that he truly begins to be a hero, with Triple Deluxe and Forgotten Land progressing the character even further.
@@hyhyd6135 Dedede is ultimately good but he absolutely has an ego problem. I mean, we know he starts off bad in Kirby's Dream Land where he's just indisputably being an unjustifiable tyrant, and while he hasn't done anything so blatantly despicable since, the serious resentment he's got going on for Kirby doing like objectively a good thing causes a LOT of harm to Dream Land. While ostensibly doing a good deed in protecting the Star Rod from Nightmare, the entire conflict of Kirby's Adventure could have been avoided if Dedede and Kirby simply??? Communicated??? But no, Dedede doesn't explain any of his actions because he thinks Kirby's a twerp or something, and so people have to fight and maybe die over this. Or what about Revenge of the King, where he gets his entire army ready to fight in an all-out war literally purely on the grounds of wanting to kick Kirby's ass and prove he's better. Also, while the events of KDL2 aren't exactly his fault due to being, uh, forced asleep, the fact that his whole ass army is down to go about causing mayhem and hoarding resources seemingly without much convincing on Dark Matter's part really goes to show how not so different Dedede uses his subjects compared to like, literal evil incarnate.
Can't exactly blame Luigi for getting 'frozen' in the most embarassing pose ever... because that's just his statue pose. The characters don't get frozen in the pose they were in when they're turned into statues. Huh, never knew Koopas and Gooombas were 'badniks'. "Until Star Fox saves him" ...Star Fox is the mercenary group, that's Fox McCloud. ...Why is Yoshi ABOVE Diddy Kong, when Diddy was the one who basically got Fox and Falco involved in the way they were and saved Donkey Kong? 'Corneria ship' That's the Great Fox. Can't remember if it's based off of a typical Cornerian ship or if it's fully custom, but still. The only thing I have to say about the Dedede badge thing with Kirby... is that was basically luck. Kirby had no idea what it was and we didn't even get to see him eat it, so it feels like it was kinda pulled out of the writer's asses. To be fair, Dedede isn't really a villain so it's not surprising that he's more of a hero in Subspace. Like, the only game where Dedede himself is an actual villain is Kirby's Dreamland, and Return of the King in Super Star Ultra. I'm not counting Spring Breeze because that's just basically a retelling of Kirby's Dreamland. Honestly I wish Sonic had been put higher, I feel like it would be fair to put him in Elite, since he does save literally everyone else from getting re-statue'd... but he's also not there for most of the story so I get it.
About the Star Fox one, there are several characters in his series that call Fox by his team’s name instead of his first name, such as Andross (the main villain) and Wolf.
@@Superemie401 Last I checked, the main time Wolf calls Fox 'Star Fox' is in 64… where Wolf encounters you with your team. Even if Wolf and Andross do refer to Fox as 'Star Fox', doesn’t change the fact that that isn't Fox's name.
The Great Fox is indeed a custom ship. Going by some old Manuals, it was a battle ship James had commission before his death and Fox has this same ship till the end of Assault where it gets permanently destroyed during one of the last missions of the game.
I’d have put Peach and Zelda up a tier level, they aren’t as worthless as you say lol I’m making my own smash bros series, this video inspired me to keep going!
Diddy and Lucas : Are literally one of the characters you see the most in the adventure --> tiered as useless Dedede and Bowser : Are playable literally once or twice --> ELITE Wtf
@@dannypalin9583 Ditto, I think a big issue is a lot of people who talk about Subspace are working off the "all cutscenes movie" videos rather than the actual game so they act like Luigi doesn't do anything because his contribution is in the level not the cutscenes. It's the same reason so many people think the game ends with Sonic one shoting Tabuu
Best couple hands down Pokèmon Trainer - Lucas: I always wanna cry remembering their bond of friendship and how it developes itself throughout the story. Second place for Samus - Pikachu: she put her mission on risk saving him from being an alive battery, demonstrating this way that behind the hunter there's always the woman: or, behind the suite, there's always the Zero. Very good video!
One thing about Yoshi is that he has the speed capable of escaping one of the subspace bombs. Sub-canonically being mach speed, he helps Mario ride to safety. Other than that though, he just wakes up and recognizes there’s a world to save.
I think it should have a capable + and capable - tier You can’t have Yoshi and Olimar who literally are there and doesn’t do anything in the same tier as DK or Pokémon trainer who actually did important things
Was Yoshi one of the four people piloting ships to save everyone after the Halberd got destroyed? No? That was Olimar? Get real, that one thing makes Olimar miles more useful than Yoshi.
One thing I always found funny was that Wario was portrayed as the weaker minion who went out and turned people into statues, but until Snake, Lucario, and Meta Knight rescue Zelda and Peach on the Halberd, not a single one of his statues gets revived. Meanwhile, people be saving Bowser’s left and right-specifically, Diddy Kong at Falco’s intro spends roughly 40 seconds as a statue. Food for thought
I also fucking love to imagine Sonic being like "Yo Mario! Sorry for being late but I- HOLLY FUCK WHAT IS HAPPENING?!". Like Sonic thought this would be great times with Mario just like at the Olympics only to see some kind of Evil God turn everyone to stone statues (?). Though, if Sonic had a nickle for every type of God he fought, he would have 2- wait Chaos also technically counts as a God too, right? So he'd have 3- No wait, forgot about Dark Gaia, he'd have 4 nickles, which isn't much but it both impressive and strange that it happened 4 times.
Kinda nutty that Luigi being a part of the crew that saves a good majority of the rest of the crew is not in a higher tier. The level they go to isn’t necessarily a cake walk and again, he’s a part of saving the other characters for the great maze. Same with Diddy. I feel like you understate how strong he is to help fend off the bosses and he’s not Lucas personality wise at all. He’s not scared, he just needs help to get Donkey Kong. He was willing to fight Bowser and pretty much goes to save Donkey Kong alone. And also, are the tiers about how strong they are or how much they do in the plot? Cuz, if we’re going with the former, a good amount of the capable tier needs to go down, and Wario turning people into statues, ice climbers being able to keep up with Meta Knight and Lucas saving him and Pokemon Trainer were no brainers for the “capable” tier. If the ladder, Olimar needs to go down, as we don’t see his actions outside of a group that much other than struggling to take down a huge rob, and Game and Watch are the stuff that makes up one of the 10 bosses, I think that’s pretty strong.
Personally I have to disagree with Captain Falcon's placement. Yes, he's cool when he appears, but he shows up so late in the game that he doesn't really get that much to do. Calling his ship to save the island crew is really the only notable thing, and I feel like the significance of that is more comparable to Pit's and Sonic's actions than to anyone else in Elite tier. If anything, Sonic was more important because he saved everyone, while Captain Falcon only saved characters who aren't important for the rest of the story. Also... he killed all the pikmin. You can't just do that and expect to stay in Elite.
I always love the scene where Diddy saves DK, then Cap jumps down & greets them. Sure, he technically didn't arrive until after DK was restored from trophification, but I like to think his arrival was timely enough to make their escape from a certain "pickle" possible. But you got a point about him being a Pikmin-murderer. Also, where were those giant R.O.B.'s in gameplay?
My headcanon for the secret characters is Wolf was part of the bad guys, but bailed after learning what Tabuu's true intentions were Jigglypuff was just appeasing people in a stadium, oblivious to the entire campaign and Toon Link was off on the ocean, also oblivious and far away from the action
@@hyhyd6135 Wolf could have returned after learning that Fox and Falco were on the line. He doesn’t let villains (except his teammates, Andross and his army) kill Fox.
To be fair, his reaction was appropriate after losing 99 Pikmin near-instantaneously. I’d freak out too if that happened to me while playing any of the Pikmin games (most likely followed by a reset).
Despite the short screen time Ness had, Subspace Emissary portrayed Ness how he truly is in his home game. As for Lucas, the arc was meant to be reminiscent of his story in Mother 3, though understandably, Smash players still mischaracterize him along with Ness unfairly...
The only one I really disagree with is Lucas. Yeah, he's a scaredy cat and doesn't do a whole bunch, but he keeps fighting despite his fear, and goes out of his way to save some of the more prominent fighters on several occasions, even if he needs help for some of it. I think he's deserving of capable tier.
Nah justice for marth he’s a badasss he didn’t leap off the cliff but he’s the one who led the charge at the castle seeing everything go down then went through the castle HIMSELF and slayed everything dude is a leader and badasss but I do gotta say I loved nesses placement he was always my favorite when I was a kid in subspace now it might honestly be marth 😂 I just love how ness always was so heroic fighting the statue for Lucas and sacrificing himself for Lucas not knowing if he would be alive again or not I got so many chills playing this as a kid and I still do I can’t think of any other complaints about the list it was all very solid
My Rankings: 37. Toon Link 36. Wolf 35. Jigglypuff 34. Peach 33. Zelda 32. Luigi 31. Olimar 30. Ice Climbers 29. Wario 28. Falco 27. Fox 26. Samus 25. Bowser 24. Ganondorf 23. Ness 22. DK 21. Yoshi 20. Diddy Kong 19. Pokemon Trainer 18. Mario 17. Snake 16. Link 15. Lucas 14. Mr. Game & Watch 13. R.O.B. 12. Marth 11. Ike 10. Lucario 9. King Dedede 8. Pit 7. Zero Suit Samus 6. Pikachu 5. Sheik 4. Capt. Falcon 3. Kirby 2. Meta Knight 1. Sonic
Not as brave? NOT AS BRAVE??? Marth solo’d the entire castle level, took Meta Knight on with no hesitation, and attacked the Ancient Minister. The only reason he hung back before Ike and Meta Knight jumped was because he wanted to try and make a plan, but as soon as his allies jumped, he jumped too to back them up. The man has lead the biggest army in the Fire Emblem series, he is not a confused coward.
Lucas saving Pokémon Trainer's bacon with a PK Thunder when Galleom grabbed them both and rocketed into the sky with his Subspace bomb activated ought to bump up his ranking a little bit
I remember trying to do this ranking in my head a while back. It is actually a somewhat interesting question and I'm surprised no one else did this by now.
Of course, a guy called 'I Main Luigi in Smash Bros' would say this, but I mean Luigi being one of three survivors after the universe implodes, putting him right at the start of the effort to rescue the other fighters, seems pretty important to me They're also called Trophies
Fun fact I'd like to point out something (this might be kinda long.) What's interesting to me is that both of the princesses and Kongs are specifically targeted on numerous occasions, with the Subspace Emissary having full on plans to secure them (attack the princesses, and lure the Kongs.) Ness, Lucas, and Marth are also attacked, but they're likely just Wario doing whatever, and the Subspace Emissary trying to remove any available castles to hide in. But now that begs the question: why are the princesses and Kongs targeted? And what plan did Tabuu had in mind where those would be crucial?
I think Tabuu wanted to use that subspace gunk to turn them into his own evil generals. Remember how an evil version of the princesses and Diddy kong were fought in the game? Maybe Tabuu wanted them for that reason. I thought he really wanted Donkey Kong because of how powerful he was. DK easily broke from the chains he was binded in after all.
I think Falco deserves the same tier as Fox because, although he doesn’t do much as Fox since he appears later, he still helps Diddy save DK and destroys Bowser’s dark cannon. Let’s keep in mind that Bowser has been antagonizing the heroes throughout the story ever since his first appearance in the jungle. To me, The Swamp level is the turning point since that’s when new characters are introduced after a while and from there, there’s nowhere to go but up. By Falco destroying the dark cannon, Bowser doesn’t show up until the subspace gunship scene, and with Wario and Dedede (who’s a hero) both trophies, this gives the heroes a chance to actually fight back, and that they do, infiltrating the subspace HQ and reclaiming the halberd, and it’s all thanks to Falco for just getting rid of Bowser
True. And let’s not forget that Donkey Kong might not have been rescued. Diddy and Fox would have been completely cooked too if Falco didn’t intervene for them.
Funny how Sonic only appeared in the very end of Subspace Emissary😂 But at least did something useful to stopping Tabuu from turning everyone into trophies again
@@j.jolidier1671 The Dreamcast was only discontinued the year Melee came out, so for most of Melee's development, Sega was a major competitor to Nintendo.
Alright, time for my thoughts Mario and Luigi are ranked pretty fairly all things considered Peach however, not only resolved a conflict between Fox and Sheik but convinced Game and Watch to join the good guys. In other words, she's 'The Negotiator'. Zelda though (if not counting her as Sheik) is pretty useless Bowser is honestly so crucial to the plot that it's easy to forget he's a bottom tier DK's a real one for not only saving Diddy, but also ROB as they're escaping the island Putting Diddy in Kinda Weak is wild, but understandable. Need I remind you that he gunned down several primids to free DK, and roping Fox and Falco is not an act of cowardice but more-so tactical, given that there's strength in numbers and both were more or less heading the same way. Yoshi on the other hand feels like he should belong in Kinda Weak. He feels more like a species yoshi than the titular character and while his fast running saves Mario from a subspace bomb, he doesn't really stand out as much from the group of 5 as Link does WARIOOOOOOOOOOOO! HE'S GOTTA WINNNNNNNNNNN! Link is pretty agreeable, although I do wanna point out how he and Zelda free Ganon, knowing they have a common enemy and putting their differences aside. Damn, putting the worst character in elite. Who would've seen that coming. Samus: frees Pikachu out of kindness, infiltrates a heavily guarded facility to get her power suit back, confronts the source of the subspace bombs and uses her gunship as one of the vessels for the final battle. If that's not Elite I don't know what is. I'd put Pikachu in Pretty Important because 1. He faced off with Ridley, who is has killed hundreds in Metroid lore and 2. He's really cute. I feel like since Pit is kinda like Sakurai's adopted child, he also got special treatment. I feel like they were running out of ideas for characters by the time Ice Climbers showed up but to be fair, there's not much to do with them to begin with. The Ancient Minister's lore is one of the most heartbreaking in Nintendo history. His entire race was enslaved and forced to be tools for weapons of mass destruction and all he could do was watch in guilt, eventually finding the courage to stand up for himself and join the heros. Probably the first game ever to make me feel bad for a robot. Honestly the Kirby characters deserve a tier above elite Olimar is just kinda there.... moving on Fox belongs in Elite but another comment explained why so I won't I'd place Falco up a tier, considering that he and Fox were likely one of, if not THE first fighters to form a resistance against the Subspace army Captain Falcon does a lot of badass stuff, but the fact that he killed like, two dozen Pikmin brings him down to Pretty Important for me. Pkmn Trainer seems to be building his ranks for the incoming subspace threat (not sure why he didn't have all 3 already) but should really get a Pokedex. I'd move Lucario to Pretty Important since he uses his aura to detect Snake as well as unseen primids on the Halberd I'd put Marth and Ike in capable. Ike is just really reckless and while he does disable a bomb, it was mostly cuz he caught Ancient Minister off guard. Ness is sans. Elite tier For non-Japan users, this is basically Lucas's character development (cuz Mother 3 was never globally... you know the meme). Not to mention he saved Pkmn trainer when he got knocked out and stood up against Wario at their second encounter. I'd say he's sufficiently capable As someone else said, Mr. G&W is the source of the subspace/shadow bugs, which is why Tabuu used him for his plan. According to the lore, G&W struggles to comprehend what is good and what is evil, which is kinda tragic when you think about it. All things considered, he's Pretty Important. Snake is pretty handy for infiltrating the Halberd and taking down Duon, though he loses points for being sexist to Peach and Zelda. Sonic's role is kinda rushed but all things considered, it is fitting for his character. And there's my thoughts. Pretty interesting video, ngl.... NOW DO ONE FOR WORLD OF LIGHT /J
I wouldn't say Snake is being sexist towards the princesses. I believe he wants them to stay out of the fight more because of their titles and/or what they just went through. On the other hand, could be classist instead. They're nobles, so he probably thinks they're not capable because why would they be as nobility? Idk, never played MGS games, dunno how well this Snake reps the series.
Come on, placing Luigi who is part of the Dedede Squad, the princesses that have their own important, very badass moments, and Mr. Game & Watch who not only steers the Halberd throughout the story posing a serious threat to the heroes, but also is harvested to create the subspace army in worthless, while the Ice Climbers that do nothing but win a race up a mountain, before being thrown down again, in a higher tier makes no sense. Also I agree with Diddy‘s and Lucas‘ placement as kinda weak, but only initially. Their story arcs certainly should earn them a capable by the end of the story.
Bro what the hell? Luigi was one of the three survivors ( the others being ness and king dedede) and king dedede basically "froze" Luigi in a trophy state just so he can take him and make a team alongside ness, so he shouldn't go anywhere lower than capable
Hum...I don't agree with a few of them, mainly G&W, Marth, Diddy, IC and maybe Lucas and Fox. - G&W is the main source of energy for the bad guys, so while not shown directly, he's a really important driver of the story as he is crucial to create all ennemies encountered. NO G&W = no bad guys minions = no story. - I agree Marth doesn't have a very important role, but he should be on the same tier as Ike. What you consider him being "confused, scratching his head" is in fact him being annoyed by the hot-temper of Ike and MK who do not think before acting. He's the voice of reason of the group except nobody's listening to him. - I would consider Diddy a tier above. I really don't consider him afraid to be alone. To me he just want Fox and Falco to help rescue DK because that should be their priority, helping people, instead on going on their own agenda and being separated, decreasing their chance of winning. Plus, DK is probably being held wherever Fox and Falco need to go to stop the bad guys, so he's putting them on the right tracks. - Same for Lucas basically, he achieved a lot in the end. I think if Diddy and him are in Weak, then the IC should definitely be too, they bring NOTHING to the scenario. You seem to consider "useless to the story but at least no loss" better than "showing a moment of weakness", but to me, Diddy and Lucas, while having moments when they need help, make the scenario advance way more than the IC, so they should be higher or at least on the same tier. - Finally, seeing how many battles he's in, and him always managing to escape alive or just straight up win, I believe Fox should be higher too.
Yeah lol. He dosen't do quite as much as Ness and Dedede but he's still one of the three people rebuilding the hero army from scratch, that's worth at least a bit more than "Worthless" lol
You know its crazy how much personality all the characters had in SI. We definitely could have gotten a more robust and less gimmicky and sometimes frustrating World of Light.
Kinda inconsistent Hypocritical list. sleeping Yoshi = “capable”, but Mario drives story + leads team ranks “capable”, Pit ranks “pretty important” for saving Mario… because he’s pretty important😅 List goes on…
In terms of plot importance, I would put Mario and Link one tier higher. They act as leaders of their group that are constantly pushing towards Bowser and keeping him on the run. Peach and Zelda I would also put one tier higher since, while not incredibly active in the story, serve as a driving force for many characters making their overall importance a bit higher.
And Lucas kinda weak? Dude it was so cool seing Lucas build up determination and courage and the pokemon trainer supporting him for that, also when they both were falling Lucas tried to sacrifice himself to save the trainer before leta knight showed up and saved them both, like come on he should've been pretty important
Putting my GOATs Game & Watch and Luigi in Worthless when one is what the Subspace Army is made out of and the other is one of the quad saving the entire Smash Universe is disrespectful. Also, Sonic should be in ELITE for single-handedly saving the entire Smash Universe in the bottom of the ninth
Ikr? When i saw that Luigi and Game and watch in the worthless tier i seriously was shocked like Luigi was one of the survivors ( the others being king dedede and ness) and they did lots of things, and mr game and watch holding peach's umbrella and walking with it is one of favorite moments in all of this game
Not saying anything's wrong with the vid I know ROB is in elite already, just giving another reason. Great vid, even if some have valid critiques of it.
I always thought Luigi was pretty important since he's one of the only 3 characters left to revive everyone, but I guess using cutscene perspective you could guess he didn't actually do much
Sheik got Fox out of the Arwing and Peach brought everyone on the same page. It's hard to say if these actions were beneficial, but they brought Fox on the ground and fighting with other heroes side by side. That said, I can't remember who was flying an arwing in that cannon cutscene, and if it wasn't Fox then I guess he doesn't do much from the Duon fight onward. The princesses seem a bit hard to place, to me anyway.
@@Superemie401Maybe. Know what? That makes me think about the Corneria level in Star Fox: Assault where Fox said he couldn't risk everyone getting killed so he will go on foot solo, and said that if he didn't make it back, he wanted Falco to go next. This guy's always reckless or selfless?(especially in Assault)
How are peach and Zelda in the same tier as Luigi. He did nothing, while getting Zelda and peach back were the goal for a good third of the emissary. Also, they actually know how to get stuff done.
Subspace emissary was so awesome. If we get another smash game in the future I hope we can see something similar, I've heard the reason they don't have all these cool cutscenes in the story anymore is because the subspace cutscenes got leaked, but that's such a lame reason, don't ruin the story because of one or two bad apples
The way I see it, a good way to rank a character's impact in Subspace is to work out what would have happened if that character, and ONLY that character, was removed from the equation entirely. Could that character's job be fulfilled by others, or is the world doomed without that particular person being there? So excluding the 3 bonus characters, here's my take on the rest of the roster (note that this will take many comments, likely over the span of multiple days, so strap in): Mario: Interestingly, the first thing to ask is whether or not the big event in the Midair Stadium would even be happening or not. Would Kirby just fight someone else? For now, let's stick as close to the canon as possible and assume that the event still happens, the Halberd still attacks, and Kirby, Peach, and Zelda still fight the Subspace Army. Once the Subspace Bomb is activated, Mario wouldn't wouldn't be there, meaning that Petey would target someone else to ambush, and since he seems to want the princesses captured, he'd likely aim for Kirby and send him flying to Skyworld instead. With nobody left to save the princesses, Wario could just trophify both of them in their cages and leave with Petey and both princesses before the bomb detonates. Presumably the princesses will be locked up together within the Halberd like in canon, just way sooner. From there, Pit would still set out to find the hero who got blasted away, but this time it'll be Kirby instead of Mario, and they'd still chase after the Ancient Minister. Now you'd think that with Kirby here, they could use the Warp Star and catch him easily, but that could disrupt the story so much that it goes down a completely different route, and I'm not ready for a task of that magnitude, so for now let's just assume that Kirby didn't think of it at the time and they continue the chase on foot through The Plain like in canon. Since the villains have both princesses, they could still have a dark copy of one of them try to ambush someone at The Lake Shore, but depending on which dark princess is used, and who fights her off, the outcome could go multiple different ways. There's no real logic behind why Link's group and Pit's group swap positions between target and defender depending on which princess is attacking, but to keep things simple, let's assume that dark Zelda is targeting Link and Yoshi, Pit and Kirby interrupt and defeat her, and Link sees "Zelda" dissolve and attacks Pit and Kirby. Once Pit and Kirby defeat Link and Yoshi, Dedede would still swoop in with Wario's Cargo (Ness and Luigi in tow but no princess) and snatch up the losers. In canon, Kirby was able to save these two because he snuck on board beforehand, but he's with Pit now, meaning that Dedede would actually escape with Link and Yoshi while Pit and Kirby chase him to The Cave. Next comes a big question, would Bowser even attack Castle Dedede in this version of events? When he does it in canon, it almost seems like he's only in it for the princess, since he leaves the other trophies in the room behind, but on the other hand, there was a lot of rubble obscuring the view, and maybe he settled for the one trophy he could find (and carry out of there, since the Koopa Clown Car only has room for two anyways). There's no way to know for sure, but if we assume he still shows up, Dedede is still KO'd and buried alongside Luigi and Ness, but we don't know what would happen to Link and Yoshi, or even which of them would get the 3rd brooch. My best guess is that Pit and Kirby would run in, find one of the two and revive them while Bowser flees with the other. If the one Bowser took had the brooch, things would probably happen like in canon, with Bowser dodging Pit's arrow and the brooch falling off and getting eaten by Kirby, and if the one they already revived had the brooch, Kirby might eat it anyways right then and there. Either way, the third brooch will likely end up in Kirby's belly, but Bowser will have managed to capture one more hero, either Link or Yoshi. Jumping ahead a bit, the next scene to change would be at The Canyon, with only 3 heroes joining the battle instead of 5, but frankly they should still have this covered, since the fodder enemies are barely a threat, even in bulk. After that, we come to the part where Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake find the prisoners detained within the Halberd and defeat their dark copies. This time the battle is a 3v3, but it should still be a win for the heroes. From here, does Link/Yoshi go with Snake and co., or stick with the princesses? Either way, both teams managed just fine already, so an extra member in either group can only make things easier, before eventually facing off with Duon, taking back the Halberd, and regrouping with everyone else on the mainland. From The Great Reunion onwards, Mario's absence makes zero difference. So yeah, while Mario was a capable fighter, and him being absent changed how certain things played out, ultimately it didn't change the overall outcome or any individual fighter's fate. Not unless we open up a whole other can of worms and delve into "Kirby chasing the Ancient Minister with the Warp Star" or "Bowser never attacks Castle Dedede" territory, which could become entire what-if stories of their own. Luigi: I take offense to you saying that Luigi is useless, because while he didn't have much direct agency in the story, he's still absolutely vital in an indirect way, because without his trophy to serve as bait, Dedede can't rescue Ness and the princess from Wario, meaning that Wario retains his Cargo vehicle and both captives. This leaves Dedede unable to scoop up the losers of the Mario/Pit/Link/Yoshi battle, but that's only if that battle even happens, because Dedede was the one who distracted Kirby, resulting it Bowser kidnapping the other princess and creating the dark copy who instigated the fight in the first place. So... who knows what happens here, maybe they stay in three separate pairs, or maybe they meet up anyways and form a 6-person squad. If it's the latter, they'll likely stick together until the battle at The Canyon. So for how this affects Wario, based on him having just left The Ruined Zoo, the direction he was driving, and which direction Dedede goes after the hijacking to reach The Lake Shore, it's likely that he was going towards The Ruins. Once there, he would still lose to Lucas and Pokemon Trainer, but THIS TIME Lucas might actually find Ness and the princess nearby and save them right then and there. After which, they would likely team up and enter the ruins to find Ivysaur and Charizard, and eventually face off with Galleom after the swordsman trio softened him up. Afterwards, he'd grab everyone (needing both hands this time since there's 4 opponents) and take off into the sky, at which point Ness and Lucas could both destroy an arm with PK Thunder to escape the bomb's blast. However, this is where things get tricky, because Meta Knight just barely managed to save Lucas and Pokemon Trainer, so what about Ness and the princess? Well, Peach can float with both her dress and parasol, and could likely slow the fall even while supporting Ness, and Zelda could potentially negate the fall damage by teleporting them to safety with Farore's Wind before impact. Either way, they meet up the swordsman trio, and eventually everyone else as well at The Great Reunion. At this point, things have converged in such a way that almost everyone is where they were in canon, except now Ness is with the main group instead of with Dedede, but speaking of Dedede, the fate of the world is ENTIRELY up to him in this timeline, as nobody else was able to receive a brooch, not even Kirby. That said, I genuinely believe that Dedede could make his way through Subspace even without help, and eventually reach, beat, and recruit Bowser. The big issue however is that his path through Subspace DOESN'T lead him to every missing fighter, meaning that when Dedede and co. eventually take down Tabuu, nearly half the roster will be lost to the void. So yes, Luigi DOES matter because the lives of Link, Yoshi, Kirby, Peach, Zelda, the Ice Climbers, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Wario, Snake, Lucario, and R.O.B. all depend on at least one other person getting a Dedede brooch, which can't happen if Dedede is unable to trick Wario and steal his collection. In the next comment, I'll cover Peach and Bowser, so stay tuned!
Oof, these turned out pretty beefy, so Peach and Bowser will need separate comments. Peach: Firstly, I'm sure Mario, Kirby, and Zelda could handle the minor enemies attacking the Midair Stadium just fine. Next, when Mario gets launched by Petey, only Zelda would be immediately captured because despite Petey having a second cage, Kirby would have already made some distance by running after Mario for those couple seconds. While Petey would probably TRY to catch Kirby with the other one, he's lost the element of surprise by this point and would surely be defeated, resulting in Kirby saving Zelda. Wario would then drop in, but without a second, more vulnerable princess to target, he'd have to aim for Kirby and Zelda, who are still in good condition and could probably dodge long enough for Wario to remember the imminent explosion and flee empty-handed, at which point Kirby and Zelda escape on the Warp Star like usual. Without a princess, Wario is only in possession of Ness when he finds Luigi's trophy and gets hijacked by Dedede, but the hijacking does indeed still occur. From there, Dedede makes his way to The Lake Shore, which distracts Kirby and gets Zelda captured by Bowser, leading to Mario & Pit fighting the Zelda copy, followed by Link & Yoshi. Afterwards, Dedede still swoops in to snag their trophies, and Kirby still saves them, but Peach isn't in the Cargo for Mario to see as it speeds by. That said, this likely means he'd spot Luigi instead, so I'm sure Mario would still insist on chasing Dedede regardless. Once again, the events at Castle Dedede present a big question mark as to whether Bowser was specifically after the princess or was going to attack regardless, but to keep things consistent I'm going to assume that he still attacks, resulting in Dedede getting KOd and buried under the rubble with Luigi and Ness, albeit this time with his own brooch still equipped. In all likelihood, Bowser and his troops would search the room for a bit, but be forced to escape empty handed when Mario & co. rock up. They'd enter the castle, see the opening in the back leading to The Cave, and assume that Dedede escaped through there, only to find Bowser instead. Without a princess to use as a human shield and deter Mario's punch, Bowser probably receives a big ol' Forward Aerial to the dome, followed by an arrow from Pit. While it's possible he still escapes here, it's also possible that the 5 heroes just beat the tar out of him here and now, leaving his trophy on the cliff behind Castle Dedede. If he escapes, he'll continue to do what he does in canon, but if not, he'll likely get sucked into the subspace explosion that engulfs the castle. This would mean that he isn't around to ambush Diddy and make a giant dark copy, and Falco wouldn't get to make his usual cool guy entrance, but he'd probably still meet up with Fox and Diddy regardless and they'd follow their usual path from there. When Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake reach the Halberd's holding cell, it'll just be Zelda in there alone, making for an easy 3v1 against her dark copy. Once free, she would still disregard Snake's order and make her way through the ship as Sheik, eventually seeing Fox blast the Halberd's Combo Cannon, but since Peach isn't there to be endangered, she doesn't try to fight Fox. Regardless, once Duon shows up, Fox would likely come down anyways to help just like Falco does. After the fight however, Mr. Game & Watch's trophy will be sitting there, which Fox was about to blast until Peach decided to revive him instead and prove he wasn't bad. Without Peach being here... poor Mr. G&W is kinda screwed. Considering the punishment that Bowser deals to Ganondorf's trophy without leaving a scratch, I doubt Fox's blaster would have done anything, but at the very least I'm unsure if anyone in that group would be willing to immediately forgive and revive the guy like Peach did. As for what would happen to his trophy, maybe Dedede would still find it in Subspace later and give him his second chance anyways, but otherwise he's out of luck. Once The Great Invasion begins, Ganondorf would be commanding it alone, and would have nobody to betray afterward, but otherwise nothing would really change about the invasion itself. Once Tabuu turns everyone into trophies however, we run into a similar issue like what happened when Luigi was absent, where Kirby didn't get a brooch, and thus half of the roster is still lost forever even after Tabuu is taken down by the survivors, except this time the list of casualties might include Bowser and Mr. Game & Watch as well, since they've ended up in new locations that could potentially be outside of Dedede's reach. So in conclusion, Peach being absent shouldn't affect the overall fate of the world, but like with Luigi it could doom a big chunk of the roster.
Bowser: Okay, obviously one of the main villains being absent will change the story dramatically, more than most other characters, but just how much are we talking here? First off, no Bowser also means no Koopa Troop, so DK and Diddy's bananas are never stolen and the two of them don't even get involved in any of this. Meanwhile Fox still crashes by The Lake and owns Rayquaza with its own attack, but without Diddy's involvement, he just immediately sets off to rendezvous with his team over in The Swamp. Bowser being missing means that the princess with Kirby doesn't get left behind and snagged, meaning she'd follow Kirby and meet up with the others at The Lake Shore (including reuniting with her respective hero) as all they chase after Dedede. Furthermore, if Bowser isn't even here, then he DEFINITELY doesn't attack Castle Dedede in this version of events, meaning that for once, the 5 heroes (plus the princess who was with Kirby) will actually confront Dedede in his still-intact castle. So... does Dedede try to fight them, or does he come clean about what he knows and his Tabuu contingency? Well, supposedly he was planning on making more brooches, so his priority was to prepare as many allies as possible for the inevitable Off Waves. Because of this, the heroic nature of the 6 confronting him, and the fact that he probably couldn't beat them in a 1v6 anyways, I think it's more likely that he'd spill the beans and explain about Tabuu, as well as the purpose behind the brooches. As a sign of good faith he might even revive Luigi, Ness, and the princess, with the caveat that they make sure to keep their brooches, as well as offer to make more for the rest of the group if they're willing to help take on Tabuu. This would result in the reunion of the Mario Bros. that the canon story never properly showed us, as well as a reunion between the other princess and HER respective hero. However, The Ancient Minister would still plant a bomb outside the castle, and depending on how quietly they set things up, it's possible that everyone in the castle just gets bombed by total surprise, in which case they'd end up in Subspace, and the Brooches would still revive a few of them later. Otherwise if they notice the bomb in time, they'd all need to make a speedy escape to avoid the blast, and would likely end up at The Canyon and join the fight there. Either way, neither princess ends up on the Halberd, so Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake simply head to the bridge and engage Duon with Fox and Falco joining soon after. Once again, Peach not being here when Mr. Game & Watch's trophy shows up means he's not revived here. In case you forgot, DK and Diddy are still enjoying their bananas in peace in The Jungle, meaning that the skiff transporting DK's trophy wouldn't be there for Captain Falcon and Olimar to hop down onto and infiltrate The Subspace Bomb Factory with. Because of this, I don't know if they actually find a way into the factory at all, but it seems as though Captain Falcon came here specifically to find the place, so I doubt he'd just give up and leave. It's possible that they could find the same entrance that Samus and Pikachu did, and follow in their footsteps to reach the same bomb storage room. From here, R.O.B. still sheds his Ancient Minister disguise and helps fight off the subspace army, but when it's time to go, there's no Diddy to encourage him, OR DK to drag him out, so R.O.B. stays behind and perishes with the rest of his kind while Samus, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, and Olimar are forced to leave him behind. Absolutely heart-wrenching. Once everyone reunites, The Great Invasion can go one of two very different ways depending on whether the group from Castle Dedede escaped and met up with everyone else. If they did, then Dedede probably prepares as many brooches as he can and hands them out, before taking the fight to Ganondorf and invading subspace. Eventually the group would reach Tabuu and get trophy'd, but with plenty of brooches to go around, everyone who was part of the initial attack would likely be able to regroup and try again, also saving Wario and Ganondorf along the way, and maybe Mr. Game & Watch too if he somehow ended up here and someone who wasn't on the Halberd (like Peach) finds him. If the castle Dedede group is NOT present for The Great Invasion however, then that means Kirby and his Dragoon aren't here to save everyone else from being shot out of the sky, resulting in everyone in those ships likely getting obliterated. Even if they simply become trophies, I think they'd just fall into the ocean instead of ending up in Subspace, so uhh... RIP to like 15 more characters. On the bright side, the Castle Dedede crew should still be able beat Tabuu, saving the world, as well as Wario & Ganondorf along the way. And hey, MAYBE the ships could still squeak by into Subspace without Kirby anyways, who knows. In the end, the world is still saved, with the only confirmed casualty being R.O.B., but the potential for many more additional deaths does exist. Also DK and Diddy just chill at home the whole time doing nothing lol. Surprisingly, although Bowser caused many issues along the way, his absence has the potential to make things a lot worse, especially since he's the one who got the Kongs involved. And speaking of the Kongs, DK and Diddy will be next, when I get around to it. Stay tuned!
DK: Right off the bat, Diddy will have to chase after the stolen banana horde by himself, but when Bowser shows up and pulls out the Dark Cannon, DK was the one who realized something was up, while Diddy just stood there ready to fight, so odds are Diddy just gets blasted here. Fox meanwhile will fend off Rayquaza alone and try to rendezvous with his team, though he may still bump into Bowser along the way and need to escape because the Dark Cannon is so dangerous. Once at The Swamp, Bowser will try to ambush him, but since he's not distracted by conversation, he can probably avoid the shot like usual, at which point Falco swoops in and destroys Bowser's Dark Cannon, causing the Koopa King to flee. From here, they'll spot Diddy on the skiff flying towards the floating island, but will probably prioritize returning to the battle against the Halberd, where things would then go pretty much the same as usual aside from Falco not arriving a bit late. Meanwhile, Captain Falcon and Olimar will spot the skiff, and even though there are still enemies on it, they'd likely still jump aboard and fight them off, after which they'd free Diddy and the three of them would enter The Subspace Bomb Factory. Once they reach the end of the path however, DK isn't present to smash through the wall and reach the storeroom. While it's possible a Falcon Punch could also do the trick, even if not, they could also try to find another path and simply arrive later, after the big battle has finished. Once the bombs are armed, R.O.B. is too depressed to move, and despite Diddy's urging, they are forced to leave him behind and escape, fending off Meta Ridley as usual along the way. After that, things play out as they normally would, with everyone (minus DK and R.O.B.) reuniting and invading Subspace, and eventually taking down Tabuu. So yeah, aside from fewer friendships being formed, the only significant change that DK's absence causes is the death of R.O.B., which is obviously not a good thing, but not as bad as half the roster being lost to the void forever. Diddy: In a bit of a reversal compared to the last one, DK is the one chasing the stolen bananas alone this time, and when Bowser pulls out the Dark Cannon, DK still realizes that it's a threat, but doesn't have to sacrifice himself to save Diddy this time, giving him the opportunity to dodge, and subsequently either flee or fight back. Typically, it's already a 50/50 on who would win in a fair fight between these two, but Bowser's got a dangerous advantage and DK knows it, so he would probably choose to flee for now and try to find a way to level the playing field. He would then find Fox's crashed Arwing at The Lake, only for Rayquaza to pop out of the water and blast it. Not taking kindly to this, Fox would eject and they'd pummel the sky noodle into submission. While DK doesn't have to worry about needing to rescue anyone, he'd still try to convince Fox to help deal with Bowser and his deadly new weapon, and the two would proceed to fight the false Bowser. Afterwards, the real Bowser would try to blast them and miss, at which point Fox, having now seen the weapon in action, would suggest they retreat and think of a plan. Naturally, it's not long before Bowser ambushes them again in The Swamp and manages to hit DK while they're busy talking. Fox dodges the next shot and Falco comes to the rescue, but now they have to fend off a Giant DK clone like it's Smash 64, which is tough, but they manage. With no prisoner to rescue or skiff to chase after, the three of them board the Great Fox and head towards the Halberd, at which point Fox and Falco join the aerial battle in their Arwings, but DK obviously can't fit in one of those so he remains on the Great Fox until the Halberd latches onto it with its mechanical arm and slams it into The Glacial Peak. DK would take this opportunity to try and board the Halberd around the same time as Meta Knight and Lucario, and would probably join up with them as they infiltrate the ship. After recruiting Snake, freeing the princesses, and retaking the bridge, DK would jump down to the deck and help fight Duon. While this is going down, Captain Falcon and Olimar are again forced to find another way into The Subspace Bomb Factory, and after meeting up with Samus and Pikachu, the four of them are again forced to escape without R.O.B., but manage to do so and meet up with everyone else. You know the drill from here. Well, things DID happen differently when the other Kong was missing, but surprisingly it led to the nearly the exact same outcome, with R.O.B. being the only casualty because either way, DK doesn't wind up in that storeroom. And y'know what? I can squeeze Yoshi into this comment as well. Yoshi: To be completely honest, Yoshi was always just a tagalong in Subspace, helping Link and later the others fend off the Subspace Army, but otherwise having near-zero impact on the story. The only Yoshi-specific moment he gets all game is helping Mario escape from the bomb that detonates in The Wilds, but even that isn't super significant because Kirby's Warp Star CAN in fact fit a 4th passenger if needed, meaning Mario would still be fine, and even if he wasn't, they could probably find his trophy in Subspace later. Ultimately, some fights are a bit harder for Link early on without Yoshi's help, but nothing significant changes in any meaningful way. The world would still be saved and everyone present would still survive, with the VERY slim possible exception of Mario if he gets caught in that blast AND his trophy somehow isn't found afterwards. Next will be Wario, and I guess I'll move onto Link after that. Stay tuned!
I have to defend, or in this case give a few extra points, to my boy Olimar. Sure, he doesn't really do much rather than support the team, but when the Halberd was destroyed by that laser, the Hocotate ship was one of the smaller ships they used to survive the explosion; alongside Samus' gunship, the arwing and the falcon flyer. I know there's plenty of space on the falcon flyer and samus' gunship. But still by that point there were a lot of characters, 25 of them, so of course any ship is of great help to fit so many characters.
Fr, it’s especially impressive considering the Hocotate ship is a run-down company-owned glorified garbage can. It was able to survive the Halberd blowing up and agile enough to evade the enemy’s attacks.
Yeah, I'm not really seeing the point of that. "He wasn't there for 99% of the game!!" And then the 1% he was in, he's the ONLY reason the cast won. He saved the entire Smash cast from being statued, since I don't think there were anymore Dedede pins.
@@baalfgames5318 Pretty important, when he saved the whole cast? Dedede saved 10ish people and got put in Elite, Sonic saves the whole cast and gets less.
I should mention that Both Link and Pit are capable of destroying these Guns that turn others into Trophies like we can see in each cutscene depending on wether Peach or Zelda got captured by Wario. Both Link and Pit have weapons of Divine Origen and that might be a Core reason for them to destroy these Guns in the first place, I know Falco destroyed one with his laser guns too, but that required multiple hits while Link and Pit needed a single *swipe* (Guns are weak in Fantasy Games anyways, just look at Castlevania Aria of sorrow) IMAGINE these two simply destroying everything that way.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
10:40 I'll have to defend my boy Marth. He's not "not as brave" as Ike, he just isn't as reckless as him to jump off a cliff with no landing plan
Exactly. Marth's the face of a strategy game series; he wasn't being a coward, he was trying to think things through.
The other two are smoke demons who jump first and ask questions never. Marth at least wants to know what they're doing so they can better plan their actions, but when he sees them run ahead he backs them up.
Yeah, iirc Marth is like a war hero in his origin game? Don't quote me on that but I believe he would be a tactical thinker
@@hyhyd6135honestly while he is a war hero, he defers most of his tactical planning and decision making to his advisors Malledus and Jagen, as do most fire emblem protagonists who don't also fulfill the tactician role like Byleth or Robin. Marth himself is pretty naively idealistic about war and while he won't run headfirst into danger, his strategic thinking typically amounts to "somehow I won't let anyone die".
@@hyhyd6135 he’s also a 16 year old boy(19 in the sequel) who heavily depends on his friends and teachers
Mr Game & Watch is the reason why the bad guys can make all the enemies in the Subspace Emissary
There are many things wrong here, lol
But it's still a decent list ig.
@@RockStoneLee19 I made a comment pointing them all out :3
Like slaves?
I kinda wish Mr Game & Watch and Wolf switch places not only because it's way more convincing but also very fitting considering the fact Fox is determined to stop the ship
@@JuanelTs more like their bodies get melted and used to create enemies, G&W doesn't understand good and evil
A detail I love about Dedede here is that he's portrayed as surprisingly selfless. At first, him misplacing the third badge and finding it on himself seems like a simple gag, but with later context... Dedede removing that badge and putting it on the princess was actually him giving up his own assured safety for the sake of saving someone else.
That's... Heartbreaking and heartwarming all at the same time.
Bro I loved how they portrayed Dedede here, fucking love how baddass and slightly of a goof he is here.
Yes, peak dedede
@@jeremymklinger no doubt
Sakurai does enjoy spoiling his children in this game
Just like in Adventure, it's surprisingly Dedede who played the hero!
@@SortaNonymous
He should work on his communication whenever he plays hero alone he causes a misunderstanding.
Thumbnail: Sonic is useless.
Video: Sonic was an important clutch character.
That's how tier list thumbnails often work. They mislead you to get you to click on a video.
Clickbait, Welcome to RUclips 🤷🏾♂️
Most honest youtuber
I also hate these “useless” tier lists because surely an S tier in uselessness would mean they’re very useless, ie not useful? But then in the video, the higher tiers correlate to more usefulness. I get that the word useless is more attention grabbing, but if the higher tier means a character is more useful, then it would be a tier list on how useful the character is, not useless.
That's what clickbait is for ya.
zelda and peach for sure deserve to be a tier higher. Zelda for punching through fox’s windshield and peach for ending a confrontation with a cup of tea and the cinematic masterpiece of her unfazed in the middle of a battlefield
That Was The Most Badass Scene Of Peach. I Actually Have That Scene Screenshot And Saved In My Phone.
Peach should be the double s tier, it is the most important character for the TAS
I think you meant to say they deserve to be a tier lower. Actually sabotaging someone whose on your side is less then worthless and only happened because Peach was just lollygagging in the middle of a war zone.
No idea. This dude's weirdo for sure
In general they helped take back the Halberd which was spreading the enemies for the Subspace army and was used as a decoy for the crew to get into Subspace. They should get points for that along with everyone else who helped take down Duon
Ike deserved to be in Pretty Important because he is the ONLY ONE to actually hit the Ancient Minister and destory a bomb as well when no one else could.
ragnell babeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Justice for Ike
Imma just disagree with that low Lucas placement. Lucas’ arc carries themes of companionship but I feel the crux of it is believing in one’s own power. When we first see Lucas he’s just walking around the Ruined Zoo until he’s ambushed by a bunch of primids and Porky Statue, he says fuck that and starts running as any sane person would. Ness then appears and saves Lucas from the statue giving Lucas a glimpse of what he could be capable of if he just believed in his own power. Ness gets captured due to Lucas’ fear and Lucas is left to wander alone until he runs into Red who demonstrates power through his bond with Squirtle. Lucas then joins Red on his journey to complete his Pokédex in the hopes that he can become strong like both Red and Ness (and save Ness btw). We are shown Red visibly getting stronger by gaining stronger Pokémon but Lucas is right there with him slowly gaining a new confidence. Lucas gets his revenge on Wario but unfortunately Ness is nowhere to be found so he continues his journey with Red until the Swordsmen fuck up by not finishing Galleum and it’s left to Lucas and Red who have both hit the climax of their arcs. Mentioning Meta-Knight saving them is fine but also note how they got put in that position as well. From there, yeah he doesn’t do much else of note but I still feel he had one of the strongest arcs in Subspace.
I agree with you
also lucas destroyed Galleom"s Arm with PK Thunder when it was about to self destruct, sure they were falling to their death but it's better getting blown up, and at least it was trying save himself. something that he didn't mentioned.
and the fact that Lucas can destroy galleom's arm but meta Knight, Ike, Marth didn't (who are btw more skilled and more capable than Lucas imo), says a lot of Lucas capabilities
Ok he is elite
@@luxi5742 all things considered, a blast of PSI electricity is gonna do more damage to a machine than swords (except maybe Galaxia)
and what about Lucas pushing himself to get the final hit while Red and him were falling to both of their death
This is very well put! As much as I don't like Ness and Lucas mechanically in Smash, I completely agree that Lucas was done dirty here. He made significant character growth in terms of bravery and readiness to engage in a fight.
Yeah, he and PT had to be saved, but only after he stopped both of them getting blown up, while PT was KO'd.
Besides, they were only in that position because the swordsmen didn't finish the job. Not fair to knock their placement over someone else's mistake and rectification.
I think Fox is an Elite here. This guy…
1: … confronted the Hailberd THREE TIMES, including once with the Great Fox (his team’s mothership)…
2: … survived a fire when Rayquaza burned his Arwing (his ship) and each time it or the Great Fox crashed (ok, so don’t ask me how he did that)…
3: … rescued and protected Diddy from the aftermentioned Legendary Pokémon and defeated it with his help…
4: … teamed up with him to save Donkey…
5: … played a crucial role in the aftermentioned rescue mission…
6: … dodged a Dark Cannon shot, which eventually led to his attempted kidnapping failing thanks to his teammate…
7: … and helped Sheik/Zelda, Peach, Snake, Lucario and Falco defeat Duon (the giant robot).
And the cherry on top of that? Out of all the characters who knew about the Subspace Army, Fox is one of, if not the FIRST, one to have an ally by his side against them (thanks, Falc!). Credits to someone else for mentioning that.
Well said. (he really is top tier all the time)
also he beat rayquaza
@@AdventVFXI just added that.
About the Fire being said, he was already dead when the ship crashed - he was a trophy - the fire apparently somehow revived him.
@@Chris-gx1ei How do you know?
Diddy is in the correct tier, but your description is off; he doesn't drag Fox & Falco along because he's too scared; he drags them along because he wants them to prioritize Donkey's rescue (& because they'd otherwise be going the wrong way to even accomplish _their own_ goals anyhow).
Game & Watch is way wrong, though; he's _at least_ Capable-tier.
I can agree with those, I think I was off with game and watch, some of these comments explained it a bit better for me and I agree 👍
@@jeremymklinger Do you ever think of remaking these USELESS tier lists after reading comments? (I don't mean that the videos themselves are bad or useless, that's just the common theme of the lists that you make)
No game and watch is elite
@@CaptHayfever Fr and right when they saw and realize what he wanted this whole time they actually help him and give him a lift in the land master so he could go rescue DK
@@hyhyd6135 it's not deep bro
Ice climbers are actually worthless in this mode
High key, all they did was climb a mountain with Meta Knight. And they only were with him cuz THEY wanted to be the ones who make it to the top first, then they get slammed off the mountain when the ship crashes. HOW THE HECK WERE THESE CHARACTERS MORE USEFUL THAN LUIGI, WHO ACTUALLY HELPED REBUILD THEIR ARMY??
They Got done dirty by Sakurai and They are My Favorite Smash Character
Yeah, I truly think they and Luigi should switch places.
@@Doze1202 This tier list is so dumb for this reason.
I'm going to argue Bowser being manipulated doesn't actually make him any less important in the story. The way I view the question is "how much would the story change if you removed them?" For example, if you removed Mario, then most of his role could easily be filled by whatever character(s) he's paired up with. Without Bowser and his army, a good amount of the scenes just don't happen.
I hope multiple people get on with why he's completely wrong about Mr Game & Watch's importance. G&W was effectively an additional source of enemies for the SSE, since his body is made of the same material as Subspace. Half the mooks being fought were basically made from his essence. So his freedom (or lack there of) is VERY important to the early and midgame of the setting. All the minions controlling the stolen Halberd were basically made out of Game & Watch juice.
I did. It's part of why G&W became one of my favourite smash characters
They were milking my boy game and watch, that's crazy
Or most characters lol
@@Elmismisimo309 sounds like a great job
Sonic coming in at the last second and saving literally everyone deserves elite
Exactly
Sonic: phew, barely made it!
It's very Deus Ex Machina, however if you consider the theory that Sonic was added very late into brawl's development, so probably wasn't able to be put anywhere else in Subspace, but he was such a big deal to have in Smash that they couldn't NOT have him in Subspace, it makes sense that he's there.
I just think it's funny and ironic that he showed up at the last minute, lol. It's almost as if Mario wrote him a letter with them being pals now thanks to the Olympics, asking for some help and he got there 5 seconds later.
My headcanon is that Dr. Eggman revived the ancient evil that is Tabuu (similarly to Chaos and Dark Gaia) before inevitably being overpowered by it. Sonic went on a whole separate adventure and reaches the final boss at the same time as the other characters.
3:11, ah yes, Bowser’s famous minions, the badniks
Sonic is elite, he may be barely in it but without him there's no good ending, also the way he enters is just so sick that he deserves it
I think dedede should be in a teir of his own called elite+
1 was smart enough to develop machines that would revive fighters
2 he saved MORE than he thought he would so he was willing to sacrifice himself
3 if he failed he would have gone down a villain
4 he strait up tackled Kirby with a hug
5 an overlooked part he stole warios hovercraft and if he didn’t wario would have stolen many very important fighters
6 he was smart enough to hide the statues from the TRUE villains
7 he beat the crap out of bowser who was trying to stop them ALL BY HIMSELF
Kid Icarus fan here, I appreciate the Pit kindness
Same.
Same
I feel like donkey kong should get bonus points for sacrificing himself to save diddy
While it's not front and center I would say that Samus and Pikachu maybe deserve one rank up. They infiltrate both a resarch facility and a bomb factory implying that, while they're not front and center, they're doing some real damage behind the scenes. At least that's always the impression I've had. After all, why is Ridley there if there's nothing to guard?
Also the fact they work so damn well together is fantastic. They also did the Other M Ridely scene correctly way before Other M came out. So points for that too.
I agree
I really do like how they made one of the most selfish characters in video games be the most generous and heroic (King Dedede btw). Especially since at that point, he was still being portrayed as mainly as an antagonistic figure that halts Kirby's process every now and again lol
I mean, he accidentally causes the events of Kirby’s adventure (and seals Nightmare), and helps the crew in Kirby 64. There were hints that he was heroic before, just way too selfish. It wasn’t until Return to Dreamland (the second installment in the franchise after Brawl) that he truly begins to be a hero, with Triple Deluxe and Forgotten Land progressing the character even further.
I'd say he's only truly selfish in the anime
He is far from one of the most selfish characters in video games
@@hyhyd6135 Dedede is ultimately good but he absolutely has an ego problem. I mean, we know he starts off bad in Kirby's Dream Land where he's just indisputably being an unjustifiable tyrant, and while he hasn't done anything so blatantly despicable since, the serious resentment he's got going on for Kirby doing like objectively a good thing causes a LOT of harm to Dream Land. While ostensibly doing a good deed in protecting the Star Rod from Nightmare, the entire conflict of Kirby's Adventure could have been avoided if Dedede and Kirby simply??? Communicated??? But no, Dedede doesn't explain any of his actions because he thinks Kirby's a twerp or something, and so people have to fight and maybe die over this. Or what about Revenge of the King, where he gets his entire army ready to fight in an all-out war literally purely on the grounds of wanting to kick Kirby's ass and prove he's better. Also, while the events of KDL2 aren't exactly his fault due to being, uh, forced asleep, the fact that his whole ass army is down to go about causing mayhem and hoarding resources seemingly without much convincing on Dark Matter's part really goes to show how not so different Dedede uses his subjects compared to like, literal evil incarnate.
@@wannabecinnabon tl;dr
Can't exactly blame Luigi for getting 'frozen' in the most embarassing pose ever... because that's just his statue pose. The characters don't get frozen in the pose they were in when they're turned into statues.
Huh, never knew Koopas and Gooombas were 'badniks'.
"Until Star Fox saves him" ...Star Fox is the mercenary group, that's Fox McCloud.
...Why is Yoshi ABOVE Diddy Kong, when Diddy was the one who basically got Fox and Falco involved in the way they were and saved Donkey Kong?
'Corneria ship' That's the Great Fox. Can't remember if it's based off of a typical Cornerian ship or if it's fully custom, but still.
The only thing I have to say about the Dedede badge thing with Kirby... is that was basically luck. Kirby had no idea what it was and we didn't even get to see him eat it, so it feels like it was kinda pulled out of the writer's asses.
To be fair, Dedede isn't really a villain so it's not surprising that he's more of a hero in Subspace. Like, the only game where Dedede himself is an actual villain is Kirby's Dreamland, and Return of the King in Super Star Ultra. I'm not counting Spring Breeze because that's just basically a retelling of Kirby's Dreamland.
Honestly I wish Sonic had been put higher, I feel like it would be fair to put him in Elite, since he does save literally everyone else from getting re-statue'd... but he's also not there for most of the story so I get it.
Lots of good points here
About the Star Fox one, there are several characters in his series that call Fox by his team’s name instead of his first name, such as Andross (the main villain) and Wolf.
@@Superemie401 Last I checked, the main time Wolf calls Fox 'Star Fox' is in 64… where Wolf encounters you with your team.
Even if Wolf and Andross do refer to Fox as 'Star Fox', doesn’t change the fact that that isn't Fox's name.
The Great Fox is indeed a custom ship. Going by some old Manuals, it was a battle ship James had commission before his death and Fox has this same ship till the end of Assault where it gets permanently destroyed during one of the last missions of the game.
Sonic should at least be at the top of Pretty important
While I respectfully disagree with the tier list, the video was a fun watch and appreciate the upload! Subspace Emissary was true gold.
I’m glad you still enjoyed the video! What do you disagree on?
I’d have put Peach and Zelda up a tier level, they aren’t as worthless as you say lol
I’m making my own smash bros series, this video inspired me to keep going!
Looking forward to it
Actually Fox from almost the beginning of the game was trying to stop meta knight ship and was badass through the hole game
12:04
The floor here is made out of floor.
The fact that it was Sonic who save the entire Nintendo Verse is the most ironic thing in this entire story.
Diddy and Lucas : Are literally one of the characters you see the most in the adventure --> tiered as useless
Dedede and Bowser : Are playable literally once or twice --> ELITE
Wtf
“It’s Ness and Dedede that moves this story along” when Luigi literally helps Ness and Dedede revive everyone alongside Kirby. 0/10
Yeah fr they disrespecting my boi like crazy
Ikr, Luigi was a big help to ness and king dedede, best trio in the entire subspace emissary
@@Ademhadji653TRUE
The fact that everyone is shitting on this guy's asinine take on Luigi restores my faith in humanity.
@@dannypalin9583 Ditto, I think a big issue is a lot of people who talk about Subspace are working off the "all cutscenes movie" videos rather than the actual game so they act like Luigi doesn't do anything because his contribution is in the level not the cutscenes. It's the same reason so many people think the game ends with Sonic one shoting Tabuu
Best couple hands down Pokèmon Trainer - Lucas: I always wanna cry remembering their bond of friendship and how it developes itself throughout the story.
Second place for Samus - Pikachu: she put her mission on risk saving him from being an alive battery, demonstrating this way that behind the hunter there's always the woman: or, behind the suite, there's always the Zero.
Very good video!
Even though I quite like some of the characters on the list, seeing how you guys analyzed and ranked them made me laugh out loud.
One thing about Yoshi is that he has the speed capable of escaping one of the subspace bombs. Sub-canonically being mach speed, he helps Mario ride to safety. Other than that though, he just wakes up and recognizes there’s a world to save.
I think it should have a capable + and capable - tier
You can’t have Yoshi and Olimar who literally are there and doesn’t do anything in the same tier as DK or Pokémon trainer who actually did important things
I think they should be Capable (did at least one cool thing, net positive) and Existed (carried their own weight and nothing else, net zero)
Was Yoshi one of the four people piloting ships to save everyone after the Halberd got destroyed? No? That was Olimar?
Get real, that one thing makes Olimar miles more useful than Yoshi.
Sonic should be elite I mean cmon he was the only character to actually do smth while the other characters INCLUDING Kirby and Mario were frozen
Also he was the only one that actually got to touch tabuu outside of gameplay
@@Punkyyyyy right
One thing I always found funny was that Wario was portrayed as the weaker minion who went out and turned people into statues, but until Snake, Lucario, and Meta Knight rescue Zelda and Peach on the Halberd, not a single one of his statues gets revived. Meanwhile, people be saving Bowser’s left and right-specifically, Diddy Kong at Falco’s intro spends roughly 40 seconds as a statue. Food for thought
I also fucking love to imagine Sonic being like "Yo Mario! Sorry for being late but I- HOLLY FUCK WHAT IS HAPPENING?!". Like Sonic thought this would be great times with Mario just like at the Olympics only to see some kind of Evil God turn everyone to stone statues (?).
Though, if Sonic had a nickle for every type of God he fought, he would have 2- wait Chaos also technically counts as a God too, right? So he'd have 3- No wait, forgot about Dark Gaia, he'd have 4 nickles, which isn't much but it both impressive and strange that it happened 4 times.
Wait, Tabuu, Chaos, Dark Gaia and… what’s the 4th one?
@@jamiegioca9448 Solaris I guess
@@ThisisTheUltimate Yep, that guy is a God of Time and some other stuff.
@@jamiegioca9448 Why does everybody forget Solaris??
@@msporte0999 Maybe because of the game he's in
Kinda nutty that Luigi being a part of the crew that saves a good majority of the rest of the crew is not in a higher tier. The level they go to isn’t necessarily a cake walk and again, he’s a part of saving the other characters for the great maze. Same with Diddy. I feel like you understate how strong he is to help fend off the bosses and he’s not Lucas personality wise at all. He’s not scared, he just needs help to get Donkey Kong. He was willing to fight Bowser and pretty much goes to save Donkey Kong alone. And also, are the tiers about how strong they are or how much they do in the plot? Cuz, if we’re going with the former, a good amount of the capable tier needs to go down, and Wario turning people into statues, ice climbers being able to keep up with Meta Knight and Lucas saving him and Pokemon Trainer were no brainers for the “capable” tier. If the ladder, Olimar needs to go down, as we don’t see his actions outside of a group that much other than struggling to take down a huge rob, and Game and Watch are the stuff that makes up one of the 10 bosses, I think that’s pretty strong.
Personally I have to disagree with Captain Falcon's placement. Yes, he's cool when he appears, but he shows up so late in the game that he doesn't really get that much to do. Calling his ship to save the island crew is really the only notable thing, and I feel like the significance of that is more comparable to Pit's and Sonic's actions than to anyone else in Elite tier. If anything, Sonic was more important because he saved everyone, while Captain Falcon only saved characters who aren't important for the rest of the story.
Also... he killed all the pikmin. You can't just do that and expect to stay in Elite.
I always love the scene where Diddy saves DK, then Cap jumps down & greets them. Sure, he technically didn't arrive until after DK was restored from trophification, but I like to think his arrival was timely enough to make their escape from a certain "pickle" possible.
But you got a point about him being a Pikmin-murderer. Also, where were those giant R.O.B.'s in gameplay?
Luigi, Ness, King Dedede, and Kirby literally saved everyone
True he should've known that
This is why this tier list is bogus.
Sonic, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf just watching Tabuu turn everyone else into trophies
Sonic: "First time?"
DemonPuff: *I sleep*
Toon Link: *disappears*
Wolf: "I missed the part where this is my problem."
My headcanon for the secret characters is
Wolf was part of the bad guys, but bailed after learning what Tabuu's true intentions were
Jigglypuff was just appeasing people in a stadium, oblivious to the entire campaign
and Toon Link was off on the ocean, also oblivious and far away from the action
@@hyhyd6135and Sonic was trying to stop Tabuu’s plans
@@hyhyd6135 Wolf could have returned after learning that Fox and Falco were on the line. He doesn’t let villains (except his teammates, Andross and his army) kill Fox.
@@hyhyd6135I wonder how they could have even incorporated Toon Link into the story when he is quite literally just another iteration of Link
Fun fact: Mr Game and Watch is the only character in Subspace Emissary to not get the black bar with his name on it
i never liked Olimar’s portrayal in subspace. they make him out to be a coward when in reality he’s a brave, selfless, and smart family man!
To be fair, his reaction was appropriate after losing 99 Pikmin near-instantaneously. I’d freak out too if that happened to me while playing any of the Pikmin games (most likely followed by a reset).
@@shukuchishikeishuu9540quite literally generic red one was with him through and through
@@orenges7034 Yes, that's why I said 99 instead of 100. Since the max amount of Pikmin you can have in your squad is 100.
@@shukuchishikeishuu9540 I get it. All I was just saying is that he’s a trooper
@@orenges7034 Oh, for sure. No matter how bad the odds are, Steve always survives.
Sonic saves the entire world that a definite elite my brother
Yeah
THANK YOU SOME ONE KNOWS
Certainly better than the post-game boss fights the other three characters added late in development were.
in terms of story ya but in terms of playablilty he is worthless. I wish they introduced him when Luigi Ness and Deedeedee get revived.
Despite the short screen time Ness had, Subspace Emissary portrayed Ness how he truly is in his home game.
As for Lucas, the arc was meant to be reminiscent of his story in Mother 3, though understandably, Smash players still mischaracterize him along with Ness unfairly...
Ness deserved to be elite just by the fact of how badass he is in the story.
He literally started humiliating Wario.
Ness was out there ruinin Wario's shooting ratings😂😂😂
Sonic arriving out of nowhere, and casually soloing the final's boss health bar to the middle was pretty cool, not gonna lie.
The only one I really disagree with is Lucas. Yeah, he's a scaredy cat and doesn't do a whole bunch, but he keeps fighting despite his fear, and goes out of his way to save some of the more prominent fighters on several occasions, even if he needs help for some of it. I think he's deserving of capable tier.
Nah justice for marth he’s a badasss he didn’t leap off the cliff but he’s the one who led the charge at the castle seeing everything go down then went through the castle HIMSELF and slayed everything dude is a leader and badasss but I do gotta say I loved nesses placement he was always my favorite when I was a kid in subspace now it might honestly be marth 😂 I just love how ness always was so heroic fighting the statue for Lucas and sacrificing himself for Lucas not knowing if he would be alive again or not I got so many chills playing this as a kid and I still do I can’t think of any other complaints about the list it was all very solid
My Rankings:
37. Toon Link
36. Wolf
35. Jigglypuff
34. Peach
33. Zelda
32. Luigi
31. Olimar
30. Ice Climbers
29. Wario
28. Falco
27. Fox
26. Samus
25. Bowser
24. Ganondorf
23. Ness
22. DK
21. Yoshi
20. Diddy Kong
19. Pokemon Trainer
18. Mario
17. Snake
16. Link
15. Lucas
14. Mr. Game & Watch
13. R.O.B.
12. Marth
11. Ike
10. Lucario
9. King Dedede
8. Pit
7. Zero Suit Samus
6. Pikachu
5. Sheik
4. Capt. Falcon
3. Kirby
2. Meta Knight
1. Sonic
Not as brave? NOT AS BRAVE??? Marth solo’d the entire castle level, took Meta Knight on with no hesitation, and attacked the Ancient Minister. The only reason he hung back before Ike and Meta Knight jumped was because he wanted to try and make a plan, but as soon as his allies jumped, he jumped too to back them up. The man has lead the biggest army in the Fire Emblem series, he is not a confused coward.
Lucas saving Pokémon Trainer's bacon with a PK Thunder when Galleom grabbed them both and rocketed into the sky with his Subspace bomb activated ought to bump up his ranking a little bit
I was thinking about it, but they were both still gonna die until meta knight came to the rescue.
@@jeremymklinger better than sitting around and doing nothing to save him
I remember trying to do this ranking in my head a while back. It is actually a somewhat interesting question and I'm surprised no one else did this by now.
Of course, a guy called 'I Main Luigi in Smash Bros' would say this, but I mean
Luigi being one of three survivors after the universe implodes, putting him right at the start of the effort to rescue the other fighters, seems pretty important to me
They're also called Trophies
He's carried by Ness, Kirby and Dedede. He didn't do anything to be one of the ones at the end except get beaten.
@@rmtsapphire0 Nonsense.
12:52 just use handheld mode my guy.
Fun fact I'd like to point out something (this might be kinda long.)
What's interesting to me is that both of the princesses and Kongs are specifically targeted on numerous occasions, with the Subspace Emissary having full on plans to secure them (attack the princesses, and lure the Kongs.) Ness, Lucas, and Marth are also attacked, but they're likely just Wario doing whatever, and the Subspace Emissary trying to remove any available castles to hide in. But now that begs the question: why are the princesses and Kongs targeted? And what plan did Tabuu had in mind where those would be crucial?
I think Tabuu wanted to use that subspace gunk to turn them into his own evil generals. Remember how an evil version of the princesses and Diddy kong were fought in the game? Maybe Tabuu wanted them for that reason. I thought he really wanted Donkey Kong because of how powerful he was. DK easily broke from the chains he was binded in after all.
This is something i have actually wanted to know
Even though it's kinda inaccurate.
I think Falco deserves the same tier as Fox because, although he doesn’t do much as Fox since he appears later, he still helps Diddy save DK and destroys Bowser’s dark cannon. Let’s keep in mind that Bowser has been antagonizing the heroes throughout the story ever since his first appearance in the jungle. To me, The Swamp level is the turning point since that’s when new characters are introduced after a while and from there, there’s nowhere to go but up. By Falco destroying the dark cannon, Bowser doesn’t show up until the subspace gunship scene, and with Wario and Dedede (who’s a hero) both trophies, this gives the heroes a chance to actually fight back, and that they do, infiltrating the subspace HQ and reclaiming the halberd, and it’s all thanks to Falco for just getting rid of Bowser
True. And let’s not forget that Donkey Kong might not have been rescued. Diddy and Fox would have been completely cooked too if Falco didn’t intervene for them.
Funny how Sonic only appeared in the very end of Subspace Emissary😂
But at least did something useful to stopping Tabuu from turning everyone into trophies again
He was delayed in melee
@@j.jolidier1671yeah ik I heard about it
@@j.jolidier1671 The Dreamcast was only discontinued the year Melee came out, so for most of Melee's development, Sega was a major competitor to Nintendo.
Alright, time for my thoughts
Mario and Luigi are ranked pretty fairly all things considered
Peach however, not only resolved a conflict between Fox and Sheik but convinced Game and Watch to join the good guys. In other words, she's 'The Negotiator'.
Zelda though (if not counting her as Sheik) is pretty useless
Bowser is honestly so crucial to the plot that it's easy to forget he's a bottom tier
DK's a real one for not only saving Diddy, but also ROB as they're escaping the island
Putting Diddy in Kinda Weak is wild, but understandable. Need I remind you that he gunned down several primids to free DK, and roping Fox and Falco is not an act of cowardice but more-so tactical, given that there's strength in numbers and both were more or less heading the same way.
Yoshi on the other hand feels like he should belong in Kinda Weak. He feels more like a species yoshi than the titular character and while his fast running saves Mario from a subspace bomb, he doesn't really stand out as much from the group of 5 as Link does
WARIOOOOOOOOOOOO! HE'S GOTTA WINNNNNNNNNNN!
Link is pretty agreeable, although I do wanna point out how he and Zelda free Ganon, knowing they have a common enemy and putting their differences aside.
Damn, putting the worst character in elite. Who would've seen that coming.
Samus: frees Pikachu out of kindness, infiltrates a heavily guarded facility to get her power suit back, confronts the source of the subspace bombs and uses her gunship as one of the vessels for the final battle. If that's not Elite I don't know what is.
I'd put Pikachu in Pretty Important because 1. He faced off with Ridley, who is has killed hundreds in Metroid lore and 2. He's really cute.
I feel like since Pit is kinda like Sakurai's adopted child, he also got special treatment.
I feel like they were running out of ideas for characters by the time Ice Climbers showed up but to be fair, there's not much to do with them to begin with.
The Ancient Minister's lore is one of the most heartbreaking in Nintendo history. His entire race was enslaved and forced to be tools for weapons of mass destruction and all he could do was watch in guilt, eventually finding the courage to stand up for himself and join the heros. Probably the first game ever to make me feel bad for a robot.
Honestly the Kirby characters deserve a tier above elite
Olimar is just kinda there.... moving on
Fox belongs in Elite but another comment explained why so I won't
I'd place Falco up a tier, considering that he and Fox were likely one of, if not THE first fighters to form a resistance against the Subspace army
Captain Falcon does a lot of badass stuff, but the fact that he killed like, two dozen Pikmin brings him down to Pretty Important for me.
Pkmn Trainer seems to be building his ranks for the incoming subspace threat (not sure why he didn't have all 3 already) but should really get a Pokedex.
I'd move Lucario to Pretty Important since he uses his aura to detect Snake as well as unseen primids on the Halberd
I'd put Marth and Ike in capable. Ike is just really reckless and while he does disable a bomb, it was mostly cuz he caught Ancient Minister off guard.
Ness is sans. Elite tier
For non-Japan users, this is basically Lucas's character development (cuz Mother 3 was never globally... you know the meme). Not to mention he saved Pkmn trainer when he got knocked out and stood up against Wario at their second encounter. I'd say he's sufficiently capable
As someone else said, Mr. G&W is the source of the subspace/shadow bugs, which is why Tabuu used him for his plan. According to the lore, G&W struggles to comprehend what is good and what is evil, which is kinda tragic when you think about it. All things considered, he's Pretty Important.
Snake is pretty handy for infiltrating the Halberd and taking down Duon, though he loses points for being sexist to Peach and Zelda.
Sonic's role is kinda rushed but all things considered, it is fitting for his character.
And there's my thoughts. Pretty interesting video, ngl.... NOW DO ONE FOR WORLD OF LIGHT /J
Where can i read about the subspace emissary lore?
I wouldn't say Snake is being sexist towards the princesses. I believe he wants them to stay out of the fight more because of their titles and/or what they just went through.
On the other hand, could be classist instead. They're nobles, so he probably thinks they're not capable because why would they be as nobility? Idk, never played MGS games, dunno how well this Snake reps the series.
@@mistahl5350 Mate, it's the early 2000's. That's enough context to know what's going on (not really but it's funny)
Luigi ranked fairly? Don’t be stupid.
9:36 imagine being Lucas, the depressed, traumatized child, and hearing this one lmao
Sonic:
-Shows up last minute
-Singlehandedly kicks Tabuu's ass
-Doesn't elaborate
-Leaves
Love this video so much!! Regardless if any random fact is wrong, I just love the format and the idea behind it :D Subbed!!
I’d put ice climbers in worthless tbh. They show up once and do nothing then continue to do nothing the whole time.
they were in the final battle and great maze
@@hyhyd6135 so was every other character in worthless.id say Zelda and Peach did more than them.
@@watergirl929 I can agree with that
it’s sad that Isabelle was too late considering she is literally my favorite Nintendo character
5:23 Lol “somehow still alive bounty hunter😊
Come on, placing Luigi who is part of the Dedede Squad, the princesses that have their own important, very badass moments, and Mr. Game & Watch who not only steers the Halberd throughout the story posing a serious threat to the heroes, but also is harvested to create the subspace army in worthless, while the Ice Climbers that do nothing but win a race up a mountain, before being thrown down again, in a higher tier makes no sense.
Also I agree with Diddy‘s and Lucas‘ placement as kinda weak, but only initially. Their story arcs certainly should earn them a capable by the end of the story.
Bro what the hell? Luigi was one of the three survivors ( the others being ness and king dedede) and king dedede basically "froze" Luigi in a trophy state just so he can take him and make a team alongside ness, so he shouldn't go anywhere lower than capable
9:16 one of my fav scenes they really let bro COOK in that sequence 🔥
Also Pikachu and Samus incapable? Dude they ware cooking the R.O.Bs together like nothing, they even defeated the Samus clones together
Hum...I don't agree with a few of them, mainly G&W, Marth, Diddy, IC and maybe Lucas and Fox.
- G&W is the main source of energy for the bad guys, so while not shown directly, he's a really important driver of the story as he is crucial to create all ennemies encountered. NO G&W = no bad guys minions = no story.
- I agree Marth doesn't have a very important role, but he should be on the same tier as Ike. What you consider him being "confused, scratching his head" is in fact him being annoyed by the hot-temper of Ike and MK who do not think before acting. He's the voice of reason of the group except nobody's listening to him.
- I would consider Diddy a tier above. I really don't consider him afraid to be alone. To me he just want Fox and Falco to help rescue DK because that should be their priority, helping people, instead on going on their own agenda and being separated, decreasing their chance of winning. Plus, DK is probably being held wherever Fox and Falco need to go to stop the bad guys, so he's putting them on the right tracks.
- Same for Lucas basically, he achieved a lot in the end. I think if Diddy and him are in Weak, then the IC should definitely be too, they bring NOTHING to the scenario. You seem to consider "useless to the story but at least no loss" better than "showing a moment of weakness", but to me, Diddy and Lucas, while having moments when they need help, make the scenario advance way more than the IC, so they should be higher or at least on the same tier.
- Finally, seeing how many battles he's in, and him always managing to escape alive or just straight up win, I believe Fox should be higher too.
The whole part on Luigi was absolute drivel.
Yeah lol. He dosen't do quite as much as Ness and Dedede but he's still one of the three people rebuilding the hero army from scratch, that's worth at least a bit more than "Worthless" lol
@@SubspaceJigglypuff He helped convince one of Tabuu's cronies, Wario, to help them simply by supporting Dedede.
@@dannypalin9583tbh we definitely know that Wario was gonna pawn his captures elsewhere for some big bucks.
I like that you used the wiimote sounds when you put the characters in the tier list
Sonic is the GOAT
SEGAAAAAAAA
Sdsds
Peach walking on the Halberd: "Bitch, I was doing that Ultra Instinct shit a decade before Goku."
You know its crazy how much personality all the characters had in SI. We definitely could have gotten a more robust and less gimmicky and sometimes frustrating World of Light.
Kinda inconsistent Hypocritical list. sleeping Yoshi = “capable”, but Mario drives story + leads team ranks “capable”, Pit ranks “pretty important” for saving Mario… because he’s pretty important😅 List goes on…
“Olimar” doesn’t do anything himself”- ranks capable. Luigi is 1 of 3 who comes back to life to save everyone else… ranks worthless
In terms of plot importance, I would put Mario and Link one tier higher. They act as leaders of their group that are constantly pushing towards Bowser and keeping him on the run. Peach and Zelda I would also put one tier higher since, while not incredibly active in the story, serve as a driving force for many characters making their overall importance a bit higher.
They did my boy Toon Link dirty
Imagine him and classic Link interactions, they could have a big brother and little brother relationship
And Lucas kinda weak? Dude it was so cool seing Lucas build up determination and courage and the pokemon trainer supporting him for that, also when they both were falling Lucas tried to sacrifice himself to save the trainer before leta knight showed up and saved them both, like come on he should've been pretty important
Just like in Nightmare in Dreamland (and therefore Kirby's Adventure), Dedede is presumed to be a villain but turns out to be a misunderstood hero
sonic shud be elite cuz he was the one t beat the final boss
Putting my GOATs Game & Watch and Luigi in Worthless when one is what the Subspace Army is made out of and the other is one of the quad saving the entire Smash Universe is disrespectful. Also, Sonic should be in ELITE for single-handedly saving the entire Smash Universe in the bottom of the ninth
Ikr? When i saw that Luigi and Game and watch in the worthless tier i seriously was shocked like Luigi was one of the survivors ( the others being king dedede and ness) and they did lots of things, and mr game and watch holding peach's umbrella and walking with it is one of favorite moments in all of this game
I mean hell ROB better be in Elite. The mode is named after him. He is THE Subspace Emissary.
Not saying anything's wrong with the vid I know ROB is in elite already, just giving another reason.
Great vid, even if some have valid critiques of it.
I always thought Luigi was pretty important since he's one of the only 3 characters left to revive everyone, but I guess using cutscene perspective you could guess he didn't actually do much
Sheik got Fox out of the Arwing and Peach brought everyone on the same page. It's hard to say if these actions were beneficial, but they brought Fox on the ground and fighting with other heroes side by side. That said, I can't remember who was flying an arwing in that cannon cutscene, and if it wasn't Fox then I guess he doesn't do much from the Duon fight onward. The princesses seem a bit hard to place, to me anyway.
The character flying the Arwing at the beginning of the game is Fox. I wonder why Falco wasn’t with him at the time. Was Fox trying to protect him?
@@Superemie401Maybe. Know what? That makes me think about the Corneria level in Star Fox: Assault where Fox said he couldn't risk everyone getting killed so he will go on foot solo, and said that if he didn't make it back, he wanted Falco to go next. This guy's always reckless or selfless?(especially in Assault)
Amazing vid and opinions as always :)
Thank you so much! Really glad you’re enjoying!
How are peach and Zelda in the same tier as Luigi. He did nothing, while getting Zelda and peach back were the goal for a good third of the emissary. Also, they actually know how to get stuff done.
Did nothing? He helped revive everyone when there was no-one left. He convinced Wario to help them. Don’t be an idiot.
Subspace emissary was so awesome. If we get another smash game in the future I hope we can see something similar, I've heard the reason they don't have all these cool cutscenes in the story anymore is because the subspace cutscenes got leaked, but that's such a lame reason, don't ruin the story because of one or two bad apples
Samus's "typical space suit" is called the Varia Suit 😂
Without king dedede everyone would be dead
Sonic is ranked as "Pretty Important" despite not showing up until the end.
What did you expect? He's literally the only reason the main cast won.
@@ravionjohnson8852 I'm not complaining. I'm mentioning it because I found it interesting.
@@evanrosman9226 MB then.
I thought the Wii Remote speaker sounds for each character was a neat addition.
The way I see it, a good way to rank a character's impact in Subspace is to work out what would have happened if that character, and ONLY that character, was removed from the equation entirely. Could that character's job be fulfilled by others, or is the world doomed without that particular person being there? So excluding the 3 bonus characters, here's my take on the rest of the roster (note that this will take many comments, likely over the span of multiple days, so strap in):
Mario:
Interestingly, the first thing to ask is whether or not the big event in the Midair Stadium would even be happening or not. Would Kirby just fight someone else? For now, let's stick as close to the canon as possible and assume that the event still happens, the Halberd still attacks, and Kirby, Peach, and Zelda still fight the Subspace Army. Once the Subspace Bomb is activated, Mario wouldn't wouldn't be there, meaning that Petey would target someone else to ambush, and since he seems to want the princesses captured, he'd likely aim for Kirby and send him flying to Skyworld instead. With nobody left to save the princesses, Wario could just trophify both of them in their cages and leave with Petey and both princesses before the bomb detonates. Presumably the princesses will be locked up together within the Halberd like in canon, just way sooner.
From there, Pit would still set out to find the hero who got blasted away, but this time it'll be Kirby instead of Mario, and they'd still chase after the Ancient Minister. Now you'd think that with Kirby here, they could use the Warp Star and catch him easily, but that could disrupt the story so much that it goes down a completely different route, and I'm not ready for a task of that magnitude, so for now let's just assume that Kirby didn't think of it at the time and they continue the chase on foot through The Plain like in canon.
Since the villains have both princesses, they could still have a dark copy of one of them try to ambush someone at The Lake Shore, but depending on which dark princess is used, and who fights her off, the outcome could go multiple different ways. There's no real logic behind why Link's group and Pit's group swap positions between target and defender depending on which princess is attacking, but to keep things simple, let's assume that dark Zelda is targeting Link and Yoshi, Pit and Kirby interrupt and defeat her, and Link sees "Zelda" dissolve and attacks Pit and Kirby. Once Pit and Kirby defeat Link and Yoshi, Dedede would still swoop in with Wario's Cargo (Ness and Luigi in tow but no princess) and snatch up the losers. In canon, Kirby was able to save these two because he snuck on board beforehand, but he's with Pit now, meaning that Dedede would actually escape with Link and Yoshi while Pit and Kirby chase him to The Cave.
Next comes a big question, would Bowser even attack Castle Dedede in this version of events? When he does it in canon, it almost seems like he's only in it for the princess, since he leaves the other trophies in the room behind, but on the other hand, there was a lot of rubble obscuring the view, and maybe he settled for the one trophy he could find (and carry out of there, since the Koopa Clown Car only has room for two anyways). There's no way to know for sure, but if we assume he still shows up, Dedede is still KO'd and buried alongside Luigi and Ness, but we don't know what would happen to Link and Yoshi, or even which of them would get the 3rd brooch. My best guess is that Pit and Kirby would run in, find one of the two and revive them while Bowser flees with the other. If the one Bowser took had the brooch, things would probably happen like in canon, with Bowser dodging Pit's arrow and the brooch falling off and getting eaten by Kirby, and if the one they already revived had the brooch, Kirby might eat it anyways right then and there. Either way, the third brooch will likely end up in Kirby's belly, but Bowser will have managed to capture one more hero, either Link or Yoshi.
Jumping ahead a bit, the next scene to change would be at The Canyon, with only 3 heroes joining the battle instead of 5, but frankly they should still have this covered, since the fodder enemies are barely a threat, even in bulk. After that, we come to the part where Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake find the prisoners detained within the Halberd and defeat their dark copies. This time the battle is a 3v3, but it should still be a win for the heroes. From here, does Link/Yoshi go with Snake and co., or stick with the princesses? Either way, both teams managed just fine already, so an extra member in either group can only make things easier, before eventually facing off with Duon, taking back the Halberd, and regrouping with everyone else on the mainland. From The Great Reunion onwards, Mario's absence makes zero difference.
So yeah, while Mario was a capable fighter, and him being absent changed how certain things played out, ultimately it didn't change the overall outcome or any individual fighter's fate. Not unless we open up a whole other can of worms and delve into "Kirby chasing the Ancient Minister with the Warp Star" or "Bowser never attacks Castle Dedede" territory, which could become entire what-if stories of their own.
Luigi:
I take offense to you saying that Luigi is useless, because while he didn't have much direct agency in the story, he's still absolutely vital in an indirect way, because without his trophy to serve as bait, Dedede can't rescue Ness and the princess from Wario, meaning that Wario retains his Cargo vehicle and both captives. This leaves Dedede unable to scoop up the losers of the Mario/Pit/Link/Yoshi battle, but that's only if that battle even happens, because Dedede was the one who distracted Kirby, resulting it Bowser kidnapping the other princess and creating the dark copy who instigated the fight in the first place. So... who knows what happens here, maybe they stay in three separate pairs, or maybe they meet up anyways and form a 6-person squad. If it's the latter, they'll likely stick together until the battle at The Canyon.
So for how this affects Wario, based on him having just left The Ruined Zoo, the direction he was driving, and which direction Dedede goes after the hijacking to reach The Lake Shore, it's likely that he was going towards The Ruins. Once there, he would still lose to Lucas and Pokemon Trainer, but THIS TIME Lucas might actually find Ness and the princess nearby and save them right then and there. After which, they would likely team up and enter the ruins to find Ivysaur and Charizard, and eventually face off with Galleom after the swordsman trio softened him up. Afterwards, he'd grab everyone (needing both hands this time since there's 4 opponents) and take off into the sky, at which point Ness and Lucas could both destroy an arm with PK Thunder to escape the bomb's blast. However, this is where things get tricky, because Meta Knight just barely managed to save Lucas and Pokemon Trainer, so what about Ness and the princess? Well, Peach can float with both her dress and parasol, and could likely slow the fall even while supporting Ness, and Zelda could potentially negate the fall damage by teleporting them to safety with Farore's Wind before impact. Either way, they meet up the swordsman trio, and eventually everyone else as well at The Great Reunion.
At this point, things have converged in such a way that almost everyone is where they were in canon, except now Ness is with the main group instead of with Dedede, but speaking of Dedede, the fate of the world is ENTIRELY up to him in this timeline, as nobody else was able to receive a brooch, not even Kirby. That said, I genuinely believe that Dedede could make his way through Subspace even without help, and eventually reach, beat, and recruit Bowser. The big issue however is that his path through Subspace DOESN'T lead him to every missing fighter, meaning that when Dedede and co. eventually take down Tabuu, nearly half the roster will be lost to the void.
So yes, Luigi DOES matter because the lives of Link, Yoshi, Kirby, Peach, Zelda, the Ice Climbers, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Wario, Snake, Lucario, and R.O.B. all depend on at least one other person getting a Dedede brooch, which can't happen if Dedede is unable to trick Wario and steal his collection.
In the next comment, I'll cover Peach and Bowser, so stay tuned!
Oof, these turned out pretty beefy, so Peach and Bowser will need separate comments.
Peach:
Firstly, I'm sure Mario, Kirby, and Zelda could handle the minor enemies attacking the Midair Stadium just fine. Next, when Mario gets launched by Petey, only Zelda would be immediately captured because despite Petey having a second cage, Kirby would have already made some distance by running after Mario for those couple seconds. While Petey would probably TRY to catch Kirby with the other one, he's lost the element of surprise by this point and would surely be defeated, resulting in Kirby saving Zelda. Wario would then drop in, but without a second, more vulnerable princess to target, he'd have to aim for Kirby and Zelda, who are still in good condition and could probably dodge long enough for Wario to remember the imminent explosion and flee empty-handed, at which point Kirby and Zelda escape on the Warp Star like usual.
Without a princess, Wario is only in possession of Ness when he finds Luigi's trophy and gets hijacked by Dedede, but the hijacking does indeed still occur. From there, Dedede makes his way to The Lake Shore, which distracts Kirby and gets Zelda captured by Bowser, leading to Mario & Pit fighting the Zelda copy, followed by Link & Yoshi. Afterwards, Dedede still swoops in to snag their trophies, and Kirby still saves them, but Peach isn't in the Cargo for Mario to see as it speeds by. That said, this likely means he'd spot Luigi instead, so I'm sure Mario would still insist on chasing Dedede regardless.
Once again, the events at Castle Dedede present a big question mark as to whether Bowser was specifically after the princess or was going to attack regardless, but to keep things consistent I'm going to assume that he still attacks, resulting in Dedede getting KOd and buried under the rubble with Luigi and Ness, albeit this time with his own brooch still equipped. In all likelihood, Bowser and his troops would search the room for a bit, but be forced to escape empty handed when Mario & co. rock up. They'd enter the castle, see the opening in the back leading to The Cave, and assume that Dedede escaped through there, only to find Bowser instead.
Without a princess to use as a human shield and deter Mario's punch, Bowser probably receives a big ol' Forward Aerial to the dome, followed by an arrow from Pit. While it's possible he still escapes here, it's also possible that the 5 heroes just beat the tar out of him here and now, leaving his trophy on the cliff behind Castle Dedede. If he escapes, he'll continue to do what he does in canon, but if not, he'll likely get sucked into the subspace explosion that engulfs the castle. This would mean that he isn't around to ambush Diddy and make a giant dark copy, and Falco wouldn't get to make his usual cool guy entrance, but he'd probably still meet up with Fox and Diddy regardless and they'd follow their usual path from there.
When Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake reach the Halberd's holding cell, it'll just be Zelda in there alone, making for an easy 3v1 against her dark copy. Once free, she would still disregard Snake's order and make her way through the ship as Sheik, eventually seeing Fox blast the Halberd's Combo Cannon, but since Peach isn't there to be endangered, she doesn't try to fight Fox. Regardless, once Duon shows up, Fox would likely come down anyways to help just like Falco does. After the fight however, Mr. Game & Watch's trophy will be sitting there, which Fox was about to blast until Peach decided to revive him instead and prove he wasn't bad. Without Peach being here... poor Mr. G&W is kinda screwed. Considering the punishment that Bowser deals to Ganondorf's trophy without leaving a scratch, I doubt Fox's blaster would have done anything, but at the very least I'm unsure if anyone in that group would be willing to immediately forgive and revive the guy like Peach did. As for what would happen to his trophy, maybe Dedede would still find it in Subspace later and give him his second chance anyways, but otherwise he's out of luck.
Once The Great Invasion begins, Ganondorf would be commanding it alone, and would have nobody to betray afterward, but otherwise nothing would really change about the invasion itself. Once Tabuu turns everyone into trophies however, we run into a similar issue like what happened when Luigi was absent, where Kirby didn't get a brooch, and thus half of the roster is still lost forever even after Tabuu is taken down by the survivors, except this time the list of casualties might include Bowser and Mr. Game & Watch as well, since they've ended up in new locations that could potentially be outside of Dedede's reach.
So in conclusion, Peach being absent shouldn't affect the overall fate of the world, but like with Luigi it could doom a big chunk of the roster.
Bowser:
Okay, obviously one of the main villains being absent will change the story dramatically, more than most other characters, but just how much are we talking here? First off, no Bowser also means no Koopa Troop, so DK and Diddy's bananas are never stolen and the two of them don't even get involved in any of this. Meanwhile Fox still crashes by The Lake and owns Rayquaza with its own attack, but without Diddy's involvement, he just immediately sets off to rendezvous with his team over in The Swamp. Bowser being missing means that the princess with Kirby doesn't get left behind and snagged, meaning she'd follow Kirby and meet up with the others at The Lake Shore (including reuniting with her respective hero) as all they chase after Dedede.
Furthermore, if Bowser isn't even here, then he DEFINITELY doesn't attack Castle Dedede in this version of events, meaning that for once, the 5 heroes (plus the princess who was with Kirby) will actually confront Dedede in his still-intact castle. So... does Dedede try to fight them, or does he come clean about what he knows and his Tabuu contingency? Well, supposedly he was planning on making more brooches, so his priority was to prepare as many allies as possible for the inevitable Off Waves. Because of this, the heroic nature of the 6 confronting him, and the fact that he probably couldn't beat them in a 1v6 anyways, I think it's more likely that he'd spill the beans and explain about Tabuu, as well as the purpose behind the brooches. As a sign of good faith he might even revive Luigi, Ness, and the princess, with the caveat that they make sure to keep their brooches, as well as offer to make more for the rest of the group if they're willing to help take on Tabuu. This would result in the reunion of the Mario Bros. that the canon story never properly showed us, as well as a reunion between the other princess and HER respective hero.
However, The Ancient Minister would still plant a bomb outside the castle, and depending on how quietly they set things up, it's possible that everyone in the castle just gets bombed by total surprise, in which case they'd end up in Subspace, and the Brooches would still revive a few of them later. Otherwise if they notice the bomb in time, they'd all need to make a speedy escape to avoid the blast, and would likely end up at The Canyon and join the fight there. Either way, neither princess ends up on the Halberd, so Meta Knight, Lucario, and Snake simply head to the bridge and engage Duon with Fox and Falco joining soon after. Once again, Peach not being here when Mr. Game & Watch's trophy shows up means he's not revived here.
In case you forgot, DK and Diddy are still enjoying their bananas in peace in The Jungle, meaning that the skiff transporting DK's trophy wouldn't be there for Captain Falcon and Olimar to hop down onto and infiltrate The Subspace Bomb Factory with. Because of this, I don't know if they actually find a way into the factory at all, but it seems as though Captain Falcon came here specifically to find the place, so I doubt he'd just give up and leave. It's possible that they could find the same entrance that Samus and Pikachu did, and follow in their footsteps to reach the same bomb storage room. From here, R.O.B. still sheds his Ancient Minister disguise and helps fight off the subspace army, but when it's time to go, there's no Diddy to encourage him, OR DK to drag him out, so R.O.B. stays behind and perishes with the rest of his kind while Samus, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, and Olimar are forced to leave him behind. Absolutely heart-wrenching.
Once everyone reunites, The Great Invasion can go one of two very different ways depending on whether the group from Castle Dedede escaped and met up with everyone else. If they did, then Dedede probably prepares as many brooches as he can and hands them out, before taking the fight to Ganondorf and invading subspace. Eventually the group would reach Tabuu and get trophy'd, but with plenty of brooches to go around, everyone who was part of the initial attack would likely be able to regroup and try again, also saving Wario and Ganondorf along the way, and maybe Mr. Game & Watch too if he somehow ended up here and someone who wasn't on the Halberd (like Peach) finds him.
If the castle Dedede group is NOT present for The Great Invasion however, then that means Kirby and his Dragoon aren't here to save everyone else from being shot out of the sky, resulting in everyone in those ships likely getting obliterated. Even if they simply become trophies, I think they'd just fall into the ocean instead of ending up in Subspace, so uhh... RIP to like 15 more characters. On the bright side, the Castle Dedede crew should still be able beat Tabuu, saving the world, as well as Wario & Ganondorf along the way. And hey, MAYBE the ships could still squeak by into Subspace without Kirby anyways, who knows.
In the end, the world is still saved, with the only confirmed casualty being R.O.B., but the potential for many more additional deaths does exist. Also DK and Diddy just chill at home the whole time doing nothing lol. Surprisingly, although Bowser caused many issues along the way, his absence has the potential to make things a lot worse, especially since he's the one who got the Kongs involved. And speaking of the Kongs, DK and Diddy will be next, when I get around to it. Stay tuned!
DK:
Right off the bat, Diddy will have to chase after the stolen banana horde by himself, but when Bowser shows up and pulls out the Dark Cannon, DK was the one who realized something was up, while Diddy just stood there ready to fight, so odds are Diddy just gets blasted here. Fox meanwhile will fend off Rayquaza alone and try to rendezvous with his team, though he may still bump into Bowser along the way and need to escape because the Dark Cannon is so dangerous. Once at The Swamp, Bowser will try to ambush him, but since he's not distracted by conversation, he can probably avoid the shot like usual, at which point Falco swoops in and destroys Bowser's Dark Cannon, causing the Koopa King to flee. From here, they'll spot Diddy on the skiff flying towards the floating island, but will probably prioritize returning to the battle against the Halberd, where things would then go pretty much the same as usual aside from Falco not arriving a bit late.
Meanwhile, Captain Falcon and Olimar will spot the skiff, and even though there are still enemies on it, they'd likely still jump aboard and fight them off, after which they'd free Diddy and the three of them would enter The Subspace Bomb Factory. Once they reach the end of the path however, DK isn't present to smash through the wall and reach the storeroom. While it's possible a Falcon Punch could also do the trick, even if not, they could also try to find another path and simply arrive later, after the big battle has finished. Once the bombs are armed, R.O.B. is too depressed to move, and despite Diddy's urging, they are forced to leave him behind and escape, fending off Meta Ridley as usual along the way. After that, things play out as they normally would, with everyone (minus DK and R.O.B.) reuniting and invading Subspace, and eventually taking down Tabuu.
So yeah, aside from fewer friendships being formed, the only significant change that DK's absence causes is the death of R.O.B., which is obviously not a good thing, but not as bad as half the roster being lost to the void forever.
Diddy:
In a bit of a reversal compared to the last one, DK is the one chasing the stolen bananas alone this time, and when Bowser pulls out the Dark Cannon, DK still realizes that it's a threat, but doesn't have to sacrifice himself to save Diddy this time, giving him the opportunity to dodge, and subsequently either flee or fight back. Typically, it's already a 50/50 on who would win in a fair fight between these two, but Bowser's got a dangerous advantage and DK knows it, so he would probably choose to flee for now and try to find a way to level the playing field. He would then find Fox's crashed Arwing at The Lake, only for Rayquaza to pop out of the water and blast it. Not taking kindly to this, Fox would eject and they'd pummel the sky noodle into submission.
While DK doesn't have to worry about needing to rescue anyone, he'd still try to convince Fox to help deal with Bowser and his deadly new weapon, and the two would proceed to fight the false Bowser. Afterwards, the real Bowser would try to blast them and miss, at which point Fox, having now seen the weapon in action, would suggest they retreat and think of a plan. Naturally, it's not long before Bowser ambushes them again in The Swamp and manages to hit DK while they're busy talking. Fox dodges the next shot and Falco comes to the rescue, but now they have to fend off a Giant DK clone like it's Smash 64, which is tough, but they manage.
With no prisoner to rescue or skiff to chase after, the three of them board the Great Fox and head towards the Halberd, at which point Fox and Falco join the aerial battle in their Arwings, but DK obviously can't fit in one of those so he remains on the Great Fox until the Halberd latches onto it with its mechanical arm and slams it into The Glacial Peak. DK would take this opportunity to try and board the Halberd around the same time as Meta Knight and Lucario, and would probably join up with them as they infiltrate the ship. After recruiting Snake, freeing the princesses, and retaking the bridge, DK would jump down to the deck and help fight Duon. While this is going down, Captain Falcon and Olimar are again forced to find another way into The Subspace Bomb Factory, and after meeting up with Samus and Pikachu, the four of them are again forced to escape without R.O.B., but manage to do so and meet up with everyone else. You know the drill from here.
Well, things DID happen differently when the other Kong was missing, but surprisingly it led to the nearly the exact same outcome, with R.O.B. being the only casualty because either way, DK doesn't wind up in that storeroom.
And y'know what? I can squeeze Yoshi into this comment as well.
Yoshi:
To be completely honest, Yoshi was always just a tagalong in Subspace, helping Link and later the others fend off the Subspace Army, but otherwise having near-zero impact on the story. The only Yoshi-specific moment he gets all game is helping Mario escape from the bomb that detonates in The Wilds, but even that isn't super significant because Kirby's Warp Star CAN in fact fit a 4th passenger if needed, meaning Mario would still be fine, and even if he wasn't, they could probably find his trophy in Subspace later.
Ultimately, some fights are a bit harder for Link early on without Yoshi's help, but nothing significant changes in any meaningful way. The world would still be saved and everyone present would still survive, with the VERY slim possible exception of Mario if he gets caught in that blast AND his trophy somehow isn't found afterwards.
Next will be Wario, and I guess I'll move onto Link after that. Stay tuned!
12:30 Still looking back that was one of the most epic scenes in all of subspace emmissary, seeing Sonic save everyone.
My headcanon is that Sonic was in Tabuu's realm this whole time fighting against various forms of Tabuu
Some extra info for Dedede: He was the one that distracted Meta Knight long enough for the Subspace Army to take over the Halberd
I get that not everyone knows a lot about Metroid but man it hurt when you called the Varia suit “her regular space suit”
I have to defend, or in this case give a few extra points, to my boy Olimar.
Sure, he doesn't really do much rather than support the team, but when the Halberd was destroyed by that laser, the Hocotate ship was one of the smaller ships they used to survive the explosion; alongside Samus' gunship, the arwing and the falcon flyer.
I know there's plenty of space on the falcon flyer and samus' gunship. But still by that point there were a lot of characters, 25 of them, so of course any ship is of great help to fit so many characters.
Fr, it’s especially impressive considering the Hocotate ship is a run-down company-owned glorified garbage can. It was able to survive the Halberd blowing up and agile enough to evade the enemy’s attacks.
@@shukuchishikeishuu9540 And by the end of the cutscene, the ship was basically falling apart, so my boy Olimar IS a skilled pilot.
Sonic being placed in a low tier even though he is the only one to touch Tabuu outside of gameplay is a funny thought to me
Yeah, I'm not really seeing the point of that. "He wasn't there for 99% of the game!!" And then the 1% he was in, he's the ONLY reason the cast won. He saved the entire Smash cast from being statued, since I don't think there were anymore Dedede pins.
He is Undefeatable for a reason
Watch the video again. Sonic was actually placed in "Pretty Important."
Without my boy sonic, the fighters would've all been defeated in one fell swoop.
@@baalfgames5318 Pretty important, when he saved the whole cast? Dedede saved 10ish people and got put in Elite, Sonic saves the whole cast and gets less.
I should mention that Both Link and Pit are capable of destroying these Guns that turn others into Trophies like we can see in each cutscene depending on wether Peach or Zelda got captured by Wario.
Both Link and Pit have weapons of Divine Origen and that might be a Core reason for them to destroy these Guns in the first place, I know Falco destroyed one with his laser guns too, but that required multiple hits while Link and Pit needed a single *swipe*
(Guns are weak in Fantasy Games anyways, just look at Castlevania Aria of sorrow)
IMAGINE these two simply destroying everything that way.