The Rise And Fall Of Bombardier Aerospace
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2020
- These days, the Bombardier’s aerospace division is a shell of what it once was - having divested itself of its three commercial aircraft programs - all within the last two and a half years.
So how did we get here?
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As a Bombardier (DeHavilland division) retiree I can say yes one specific factor.... incompetent management .... pure and simple....
It took several comments, in "Top Comments" order, to reach one which really explains the reason for Bombardier Aerospace fall: poor management. I'm also a former employee from BA in Montreal. It's a nice company, building a nice product, I was surrounded by nice people, but from a certain level up, arrogance and lack of vision highlighted. Collectively, that really broke the company. I left 2 years before those sad events occurred in sequence. Lucky me! It'd have certainly be a hard time in my professional life if I had stuck to the company. I'm really sorry for the good people that had their lives heavily impacted by others' mistakes.
The irony is that when the federal government asked Bombardier to buy Canadair, it was because of Bombardier's solid management and Canadair was very poorly managed. And Bombardier made huge improvements at Canadair, and got the project to upgrade the Challenger into a regional jet (the CRJ)_ Bombardeir grew into world leader for transit and 3rd largest commercial aircraft maker.
Not sure at what point the bad management decisions came, but by 9-11, it was definitely there.
It was interesting to hear that during its last years, the CRJ programme was losing money. How could Bombardier be losing money on an existing aircraft with all production/tooling already done? That appears to be terrible management to me.
They were competent enough to secure a huge government check before scraping off the company.
IMO, this isn't bad management, it's just management that doesn't care about the company.
@@arakwar Management which does not care about the company it is managing probably wouldn't be too good for the company though, right?
One of my family's relatives also worked for Bombardier. I'm not sure which part he worked on as I'm not very close to him but all I was told was that management was bad and stressful. He's retired now but I was told when I asked my dad weather he still worked at Boeing or not my dad told me he works for Bombardier and worked on private jets instead. I still remember as a kid I recieved many Boeing souvenirs.
They also sold their train program to Alstom
Yes they did so what's remaining of Bombardier?
@@francoisunger6466 Just private jets. Kinda sad, isn't it?
@@cedricye1767 yes it is the A220 is a marvellous piece of engineering which was no easy task to develop and they don't get the credit for it. For the trains they have been working with Alston for some time so it's sad for Canada but overall I think it's fine
Technically, not done yet. Expect EU decision now on July 31, and transaction closing sometime in 2021. There will be divestitures (BBD Zefiro, Alstom Coradia Polyvalent and a few others).
Also, Aerostructures not yet concluded (being sold to Spirit Aerospace). Have to wonder if this transaction will be done.
Ohhh I forgot lmao they actually ride in nyc
You overlooked the #1 reason they failed -corporate governance and structure. The decendents of the original founding families kept very strict control of the company. Even though the company was publicly traded the shares voting structure essentially gave a couple families almost unfettered control over the operations of the company. They treated it like their personal piggy bank and took out many millions of dollars for themselves even as the company was bleeding money. They demonstrated poor judgement in how to run an actual business and this eventually led to the company running out of cash, despite many government bailouts that came from the families tight political connections
Like Irving then.
You nailed it. Despite many advantages relative to Embraer, it failed where the Brazilians succeeded.
Poor governance is actually reason #1 through #5.
Bombardier execs had no idea on how to run their company. When I worked for them, I perfectly recall them making foolish decisions one after the other. Like doubling production rates at a time when this was impossible...bosses and execs never ever bothered taking the right information and data before making any decisions. And then wondered why things weren't going the way they were supposed to. Also, it was the single company I worked for where upper management never ever got to meet middle or lower management. Just because they thought so highly of themselves (based on what, IDK...). I was more than happy when Alstom bought them over.
@Craig C I would also add the very poor integration of its subsidiairies all together. It was everyone for himself, with a total whatever - laissez-faire attitude. I recall subsidiaries fighting one another all the time despite us belonging to the same corporation...
I like how Boeing Got a Slice of Karma after starting the C-Series Dumping petition
Dave Daniels Mmk let’s calm down lmao
r/instantkarma (not very instant but whatever)
@mr sir *cough* 737-max *cough*
@mr sir yup and because of that hundreds died even though there were numerous reports from pilots complaining about MCAS before the first crash. Boeing got slack with their standards to compete with Airbus and now it's cost them
@mr sir Lol boeing has to use the government to suppress competition cheap af
Being from Canada, I've watched the growth and fall of Bombardier over the decades. It was never a roaring success -- ever. It required continuous subsidies and favored treatment from government contracts just to stay viable. The company started as a snowmobile manufacturer, and it may have tried to reach too far towards the moon. I think the C-series/A220 was their best project, but it drove them to bankruptcy. They should've partnered with a larger manufacturer from the start.
Yup, me too... It's been a soap opera the whole time. They've always been 'so close', and 'just a bit more government help'. It's a bit sad to see it decline, but they never could quite stand on their own two feet.
The personal arrogance and incompetence of the family did them in.
@Landru Jayrod Unfortunately those millions are predominately the taxpayers. In my opinion their assets should be seized for no other reason than that after the last big bailout they immediately paid themselves huge bonus' even though the company was going under.
Back in the 70's my family got into snowmobiling and my dad was a loyal Ski-Doo buyer, the band Bombardier manufactured. I still remember when he bought a couple of TNT 440's to go along with the mid level line we already had. They were some bad-ass fast machines back in the day. They should have stuck with snowmobiles and ATV's, stayed the hell out of manufacturing planes (at least stayed away from the bigger jets and buying Lear).
@Ladh 70 Cite references for your statements or sit down and shut up, you are embarrassing us now . . .
It's funny how whenever Canada comes up with a really good plane, The US finds some way to ruin it for the Canadians. Remember the Avro Arrow anyone??
Well the usa is on the brink of collapse so I'm happy
@@CoCoNuT-dq7ez If the commie socialist cause the country to collapse I promise the world will not be happy.
Steven H. Just admit it...I’m American and yes I’m in the CIA
@@Sh9168 Socialist cause? Cold war ended 30 years ago.
Grow up.
Don’t forget the “Jetliner”, 10 years before the 707
Bombardier also had a massive train division and they sold it off (to Alstom). Had no idea about the aerospace side facing a similar fate, dang
The arrogance of the inept board of directors is the single, direct cause of its downfall and the sad loss of so many talented staff
Atleast those losses wouldn't go to work for Boeing
Bombardier's downfall is CHIEFLY the result of completely inept management. The Learjet 85 was, from the ONSET, an aircraft that would have been heavier when empty than the Challenger 300, but lighter at maximum take-off weight (indicating extremely inefficient structure, the result of the intention to have it made 'cheaply' with composites that would not be cured in autoclave, except that the manufacturing was supposed to be made in Mexico -- for the cheaper labor -- at 1820 m above sea level!) with a smaller cabin, lower cruise speed, lower range and essentially same price. And that design was launched at the same time as the CSeries and the Global 7000, meaning there were not enough engineers around to do the work simultaneously and that ALL programs were late as a result.
After Rober E Brown was dismissed as CEO, Beaudoin jr. took over, and everything started going bad. Every single project, which were until then completed in 4 or 5 years, started taking 7 or 8 years. Trying to make something cheap means that will end up costing more, be late and done badly.
You also forgot just bad management.
I think that the downfall started when Boeing used the advantage of being a U.S. manufacturer as leverage to tax the C-Series program. A great plane plagued by unfair competition. You don’t see Bombardier taxing 300% on Boeing jets in Canada
I absolutely love these short but informative and well documented videos👍
I feel that all this smaller componies really dont get much of the attention (good attention ) that they need .
Government involvement in private business, especially in the form of bailouts, ensure garbage oligopolies.
Could you do a video on Mitsubishis aviation past
Thanks for the feedback. - TB
Simple Flying this would be a great video
America is that super competitive friend that will try to win at any cost
It's worth pointing out here that Bombardier's fate is no different from Embraer's (E-Jet programme) with both having been swallowed whole by the global Commercial Aeorspace duopoly that is Airbus-Boeing as soon as they launched products which could challenge them.
I still think Bombardier still has a lot of potential and can bounce back from this. Afterall Canadians don't give up. :)
I'm sure Quebec and the Feds will be writing plenty of cheques for them real soon.
Nope. The point is that they unwisely got rid of all the technical design people. Those that could be sold along a product line went away to the new owner. Those who remained to complete the Global programs have just been issued pink slip. The company thinks it can keep selling their current product; but in one year, the Gulfstream G700 will enter service (it is flight testing now) with a larger cabin than the Global 7500, more range and using less fuel. And there is no one left to design a response. Even assuming that they could find the funds to finance a new derivative, the expertise and experience is *gone*.
Developpement cost of the Cseries, the failed Learjet 85 and the Global 7500 all at the same time. This costed 10+ billions in a short period of time 2008 to 2020
Crj1000 and gx8000 also developped almost at the same time
The GX8000 is the Global 7500 (and 8500). But you're absolutly right about the CRJ1000, it did not sold well 😥
Blame Boeing and their legal challenge against Bombardier, the CS100/300 or A220-100/300 is a beautiful aircraft, carefully made and very popular with customers. Boeing's legal challenge ruined a great brand, and reduced competition. Meanwhile Boeing developed an aircraft, the 737 Max programme, which has accounted for loss of lives and is still to be recertified for safe service.
I would happily get on an A220, but not a 737Max.
well i think "boeing" is what killed Bombardier
Agreed.
In an industry where only a few thousand pieces are manufactured each year, competition from the small guy is impossible.
@@drormaor8134 yes sad to see bom-bar-dee-a go :(
@@drormaor8134 idk, bombardier was pretty close to killing the 737 Max-7 with their CS300. If boeing didn't get the government to put massive tariffs on them, they'd probably still be around.
Especially because Delta stated they were not interested in the 737 as their smallest offering had about 20 more seats than the CS100's they ordered
i agree 2
It is indeed a good brand with great product line. Wish them all the very best.Keep flying...
I really miss Bombardier Dash 8 Q series. Philippine Airlines have them.
They're still being made, they've just gone back to their original name De Havilland Dash 8 Q-series.
@@bbbl67, yah.
The fall of companies like this are never due to one factor alone.
Bombardier is love Bombardier is life
My favourite is the Q400
*was
I suppose you don't like private jets do you?
@@cedricye1767 well I can't really afford to fly on one but it's not like I don't like them
@@rednightfire2655 ok
Sas had a lot of problems with the q400.
Some named it Crash 8.
@@skylineXpert the only plane I'd nickname "crash" is the DC-10.
Just hearing the name makes me nervous
The Future is Privat jets!! Bombardier 💪🤘🏻
not with all the global warming hysteria.
Just because you are born into the family doesn't mean you're smart enough to run the company. Incompetence at it's highest.
Pierre Beudoin had to be the biggest idiot ever in the history of Bombardier. So yes, I agree wholly with your comment.
Any time that Boeing feels any competition, they just scream and cry until they get their way. They did it when AirBus released the A320 Neo, and ended up making a dangerous aircraft, and they did it again when Delta ordered aircraft from Bombardier.
@Dave Daniels Boeing, yes, US, no. Calm down. We just need a president who, you know, isn't a psychopath.
It doesn’t just happen naturally that something like Boeing gets crushed double.
The regional airline industry which WAS Bombardier’s bread and butter saw substantial scaling back. What was left was captured by Embrair and their 170 and variants.
i worked as an A/P aircraft mechanic with the CRJ 100 of DELTA/ COMAIR in Orlando,Fl. The acft. was a good workhorse ,but required extensive structural maintenance; aside from the regular checks that we performed. Other than that, the acft was pretty good. Good memories of those days.
A real shame. Always loved Bombardiers. Thanks for the CSeries! Great legacy.
That's interesting as I am a A&P technician and I still see new Global 5500 series aircraft coming in for paint to my FBO that I work in.
Bombardier is such a big deal historically and politically here in Québec. Founded by Joseph Armand Bombardier in the town of Valcourt making snowmobiles then in the 1970's made it's first train (MR-73) for the Montréal metro to then make planes. Seeing it now especially when they sold off there train division to Alstom was a huge blow to the province and really impacted me and especially the Québec government. At least Alstom will put it's North American headquarters in Montréal to compensate for it.
I didn’t realize they sold the other 2 programs, I only knew about the C-Series, I really like bombardier, and really hope they can make a comeback in the near future
Cool video
Thanks for the feedback. - TB
Talk about having all the tools for success but being mismanaged into oblivion.
You forgot to mention Shorts in Belfast.
Bad mismanagement at the top, inability to assess risk, plus poor governmental economic policy that allowed the divestitures to happen. One of the most epic corporate manufacturing failures and a shame for Canadian trade and economic prowess. The future case study of *what not to do*
Bombardier airplanes are really safe tbh
Insted of North America and European orders bombardier would have looked into Asia Pacific markets like India Indonesia Malaysia and other countries where large number of budget carriers are operating from Indigo airlines,Garuda Indonesia,citilink,Air Asia etc would saved bombardier from collapse
TORONTO, CANADA JULY 2020/TTCAD/ Air Canada is proud to support Canadian innovation and engineering with the introduction of 45 Airbus A220-300 aircrafts to our fleet, with the inaugural flight on January 16, 2020.
Providing the best-in-class customer experience for flights within North America, the Quebec-made A220-300 features wider Economy seats and extra legroom, along with ample aisle and overhead storage space, larger windows, and lower in-cabin noise levels for a quieter, more pleasant flight. We’re proud to have been named Best Airline in North America for the third consecutive year as we continue to provide our customers with the utmost in comfort, technology and innovation. The addition of the A220 to our ever-growing fleet reflects our ongoing commitment to providing our customers unparalleled performance, and our desire to be at the forefront of the global aviation industry.
Great video, it's missing the costly development of what was called the Global 7000-8000, now renamed Global 7500. Bombardier biggest problem was his own CEO who launched 3 big projects almost at the same time (Cserie, Learjet 85, Global 7500), of coarse Boeing didn't help but the cash flow was really a big problem.
And yet that CEO (P.B) still is present like as if he brought success to his family jewel.
This is sad. Bombardier had so much potential. I think we should try to save it
Fun fact, Bombardier gave our college a Global 7500 for free. Double fun fact, my college rests on the original DeHavilland Canada factory
Great planes, international markets very fickle. Sad situation
isint it! 😢
Well they still have snowmobiles to fall back on eh?
I find it suprising that Bombardier's private jets are so prominently advertised all over Africa and sell well as a result. Why did they not spend as much money on their commercial planes/airliners? The Brazilians were clearly out marketing them.
A vid about Scandinavian aviation
This is unfortunate. I love to fly on those jets. They’re rock solid and the most comfortable small jet I’ve ever flown on.
I'm really surprised this video makes no mention of the world economic crisis that occurred right when the C-Series was finally fully certified. Or the struggles Bombardier's massive Rail Division had meeting deadlines and staying profitable.
The amount of govt subsidies given to this family run company speaks to the corruption of the elites who run Canada. Can’t say I shed a tear for its demise, but the family has not surprisingly done fine.
Last time i was this early my family was still alive
lol dark.
Bombardier: *builds the best new narrowbody*
Also Bombardier: *basically goes under*
From what I have seen working at the company as a contractor their management was extremely lacking and unbending in the ways it treated its employees as well as contractors.
They still do practice this and even worst now…
I'm thinking that there might be an uptick in demand for private jets due to the pandemic. I've seen a bombardier video touting their new air filtration system. This could keep them in business...at least for a while.
What's gonna replace the crj200s?
I had an idea it was going bad for them, but not this bad. What a shame, they were a bright spot in our tech sector.
it was the fault of Boeing, I am happy that things are out of track at Boeing. the a 220 is my favourite aircraft.
Now let's wait for Comac to kill both Boeing and Airbus :D
Now I'm a Comac fan and I'm no longer an airbus fanboy.
Airbus a220 is boring and too common
@@scottishtransportvideos264 I totally don't get it... too comon?
@@Waddle_Dee_With_Internet interesting...
I don't think I will ever be a comic fan, they literally copy western jets (my opinion)
the regional jet (I forgot the name)=717
c190=a320
I don't think I ever be a comic fan
@@kornelpesti787 "Comic fan"
boeing wow your a genius
This is so sad. Canada deserves better, we really do.
The main part of the problem started when they made Bombardier Recreation Products a completely separate company. BRP made most of the money in the company with motorcycles, Sea Doos, Ski Doos , ATVS and Quad track vehicles.
We remember,audited this too
I think bombardier might join airbus
that would be really cool to see
Well, that sucks. All that remains is a few engineers and their products' pasts haunting them.
No, the design engineers are essentially all gone. Sold along with the product lines, and for the remaining ones, forced in early retirement or laid-off.
I never understood why Boeing went after Bombardier with such hatred...did they get a raw deal selling DeHavilland?
C Series: Sold by the Notable Aircraft Manufacturers
Dash 8: Sold by the Neighbors
CRJ: Sold by a Car Company
I think that Mitsubishi Heavy Industries helps with the B787 however I’m not sure.
@@joshuajoe1419 Yes. But they were also the lead developer of YS-11(the only commercial aircraft Japanese made postwar), sole developer of MU-2 (a Beachcraft sized turboprop) and MRJ, and made a few military aircraft exclusively for JSDF. They are never comparable to even Embraer, but assuming they can just make cars are naive at best.
Mitsubishi used to make planes
steinwaldmadchen thanks makes sense that they bought the CRJ project.
Mitsubishi also made planes for japan in ww2 (the worst in the war lol)
Can you do an update of MRJ???
Thanks for the feedback. - TB
It became the SpaceJet, then disappeared.
If they still own the Challenger series they're ok because the Challenger 300-350 is awesome.
Bombardier aviation still own Learjet, Challenger and Global family, not to bad.
@@francoisgagnon3716 I think the stock could be a buy now, might hop in at $0.50 range on monday
I think the stamp on the CS200 is an error: it should read "given".
It's a shame that a company that had such a great showing in a monopolized market met a fate like this. I hope they can make it back into the aircraft manufacturing market.
I have 20 years experience on Global express and I have avoided working on any other airframe. When 10 employees in a 12 hour shift have the productivity of 1 person working for 2 hours. That's all I got to say about that.
4:44 = US govt. killed it.
No It was already well on its way
Karma sucks... Look at the 737. When you begin having those advantages then you will start to make a bad product and make moves that normally you wouldn't do... And that's what they did... Made a dangerous aircraft
@@ggqbc I thought in 2020 I would stop seeing these comments about the "dangerous" MAX, but it looks like nobody actually does research and talks with real pilots to understand it was more of an issue with airline training than the actual aircraft.
@@DiamondAviation727 The only reason MCAS was in place the way it was, is to sell more aircraft. The reason being the pilot training costs. The Airlines knew as little as the pilot. For all they knew it was a new B737 that flew like the old ones, which is what MCAS was there to ensure.
@@Hyperus MCAS wasn't to sell more aircraft. In fact talking to SWA pilots who knew about it, the MCAS system is almost never activated while flying, so the aircraft flew without the system fine. It only activated when the natural CoG of the aircraft caused the aircraft to naturally nose up, the system would kick in and would use the cockpit trim system to put the nose down. All it was is a trim system, nothing huge like people say it is. If you were a properly trained pilot, you would have seen the trim pushing the aircraft too far down, then continued with the runaway trim system checklist according to an SWA pilot. Two switches are what could have saved the two crashed MAX aircraft.
Well they had a too wide variety of products, I profoundly regret the sales of the CS-300 series to Airbus even if I understand the reason, regarding the Dash and the CRJ it was better for Bombardier but they should keep the GLEX and CL series they have been doing a great job at it love to fly the GLEX and hopefully one day I’ll be flying the vision or the 7500 it would be nice to finish my career on this bird ! 😃
Bad management..
Absolutely. Completely mismanaged. They gave everything they had into the C Series, but it cost them their life. Somehow they didn’t know how to market it. And the US Government (and Boeing) made it even worse and ended up giving a victory to arch rival Airbus. This is quite a tragic story.
true, in Asia the CRJ are now called Mitsubishi Regional jet
3:41 Croatia Airlines :)
Hi
Great video!! I think boring basically ruined bombardier because they realised that they were becoming bigger and feared the competition. Boeing are just so big that they literally have control over everything 😂
Dave Daniels oh I mean I don’t like them but jeesh
Boeing may likely go down next. Until the US Government starts WW3 and bankrolls Boeing to save them. Boeing is outrageously mismanaged.
In my opinion. Greed, mismanagement, projects with cost overruns, missed deliveries, quality control issues. BART in San Francisco has issues with the new cars, New York subway and Toronto streetcars are dealing with ongoing issues with the cars.
Boeing is a monster! a small company rising and trying to seuceed, and boeing just wrecks them even if they have advantage.
It is because Americans won’t let Boeing just die already like they did with Ford.....
Its not boeing's bad. Its bombardier's strategy problem. The market break through shall not be made in north america which is the home base of boeing, nor EU which is the home base of AB, but the oriental asia.
China got big money and its already big but still growing market.
If BA made a cooperative deal with China in commercial plane, the whole big advantage will be in pocket of canadians.
And in China, boeing and AB almost could do nothing about it.
But now Chinese C919 is on the way, as a counter player of A220. This aircraft was possibly be a bombardier shared project.
Sad.
@@alexzhang2920 trur
That C plane is a good product
*******air India was operating crj aircraft early 2010and some private carrier's operating bomrider in present time*****
It was the same with Fokker, great technology very realiable but to small to stand up against the big guys. So every finacial back drop could be leathel. You can’t keep that up for a long time.
In fact, same with founding members of Airbus
The Boeing case was a certain kick in the teeth for them.
Yeah like double. It ended up handing a huge win to their arch rival. Probably the last thing they wanted.
But hey! We at least have the new global 5500 and 6500 now!
I knew about the C series but... Uh... Bombardier is my favorite plane manufacturer... Im kinda sad now that i know about the rest...
I am glad that Longview/Viking a Canadian company bought off the Dash8 program. I think most people overlooked that even before the A220, Bombardier was already losing to the competition, just look at the order numbers for Q400 vs ATR, CRJ vs E-jet. And if not because of the airbus scandal back in 1990, DeHavilland might still be Boeing Canada.
I love the Dash-8’s, great reliable service to many small fields. I have pending travel on the C300, but I really favour the Embraer’s to the CRJ’s.
It is a family company that could not recapitalise without the family losing control - losing their jobs and social position in Canada.
Bombardier was an amazing company while it lasted, it’s sad to see it slowly die out...
I see most of the comments citing boeing/us government but its not just them. I think what really killed is Mitsubishi, Airbus, and Boeing and the fact that bombardier wasn't doing so well since it had a high debt. These are the multiple factors I think that led to bombardier only producing private jets
As an American even I am appalled by most of Boeing's business practices.
Bombardier was heavily diversified and maybe stretched too thin. One thing I wonder about, would COVID-19 had happened a year or two earlier, would it have kept its C-Series and ramp up marketing?
Yeah, 22 Skidoo.
Boeing is honestly just tasting the karma of taking such an eager company out of business.
As an American it’s devastating. Boeing is so horribly mismanaged and at this rate and with the coronavirus pandemic, I almost don’t care if they go under. The 787 is the only solid product Boeing has currently.
Bombardier knew they would never make money from commercial aircraft, but their high end business jets rake in the cash. They divested the unprofitable to focus on the profitable. Good business decision I would say. Their business jets are the best.
I reckon bombardier would have done well if they were in the military business. Personally I love the Q400
That's what killed Avro. Canadian company built the first passenger jet in North America but got out of the passenger jet business to build the most advanced jet fighter at the time...couldn't sell them.
The only good aspect is that Airbus bought the C Series not Boeing.
Yes. For Airbus it was beneficial to gain production capacity in North America where Boeing would have probably closed the production line and moved everything to the US. In the long term the deal with Airbus might turn out to be very positive for the aerospace industry in Canada.
The C-series was just dirty play by Boeing; Bombardier never had to eat the dirt with that program, and they could have established a firm foothold and a competitive market with the Giants, Airbus and Boeing
Had not Airbus take CSeries, they would be in a position dumping both A319NEO and used A319CEO to customers, stopping them from ordering the former by any means.
And they have the reason to do so - A319NEO is just 5% behind CS300 in terms of fuel burn. While still uncompetitive Airbus could try to make up with aggressive financing and pricing in a way Bombardier unable to.
Meanwhile, even CS300 success, CS500 is in the heartland of MAX (a.k.a 7M8) while A20N is equally competitive. That would be an uphill battle for Bombardier.
👍❤AIRBUS ❤👍
🇺🇸 Boeing
100% this corporation died due to beaudoin family not giving up control. They could have issued massive amounts of shares (like tesla) and kept all it divisions, but this would have dilited beaudoins. In 2018 tesla and bombardier had identical balance sheets. Bombardier had planes, trains and more. Sold it all to France. They should have kept their spirit and explored drone development for transportation. Canada is a bad business hub, they used to compete with the best in the US, but have pretty much given up. I dont know how far this will go, but highly talented canadians are already leaving for the US. Some have even gone to Tesla.
Canadian 'brain drain' always been there but is much worse in quebek.
Hello