UPDATE: I've seen an influx of viewers following Rebirth's launch and many are wondering whether I will be reviewing it and Part 3 or not. I won't be. I have no plans to make another video on FF7R. I understand that many would like to hear my thoughts on those games, but I've read up on all the spoilers for Rebirth, and they were enough to conclude that this trilogy will never be for me. The things which made me fall in love with the original FF7 are not being retained in Remake/Rebirth. To explain: --- Possibly the biggest reason why I loved the OG so much was because it had some of the HIGHEST emotional stakes of any story I've seen. And the main reasons for this were: 1) how the magic system worked (as I explained in the video at 2:15:31 - 2:25:33) 2) the relatable theme/message about life having a sacred, immaterial value (even amidst/because of all the losses suffered by the characters). 3) the uniqueness of the characters and their very human-relatable struggles/relationships. 4) the character of the planet itself. The Remake trilogy is replacing the OG’s themes with a postmodern, meta-theme about predeterminism and whether it can be defied or not, which is far less relatable. So that's bad enough. But more importantly, Rebirth has eschewed one of the most important factors which made the OG stand out from all other JRPGs about "saving the world": There's a phenomenon in psychology called: the "identifiable victim effect" - "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." As humans, we did not evolve to form emotional attachments to millions of people - we evolved to live in small groups of about 150 (Dunbar's number), so our ability to empathize is better suited to caring for select individuals rather than collectives. This is why Fall (2022) - a movie about 2 women trapped atop a 600+ metre radio tower - manages to be more emotional and intense than a lot of superhero movies where the heroes have to save the entire world/galaxy/universe/multiverse from being destroyed. But OG FF7 did something VERY clever to circumvent this problem: the world ITSELF was a living organism. FF7 managed to be more intense than any other "save the world" story I've seen because THE PLANET ITSELF WAS A SYMPATHETIC CHARACTER - it was an innocent being desperately trying to defend itself from an exploitative corporation/alien invader/meteor threat. I cared about it just as much as I did about the main characters ON IT. For me, FF7 was infinitely better when the planet was just a living organism; the Lifestream was its blood/soul from which spells and monsters could be drawn. And that was it. But in the 7R trilogy, the writers have overhauled the planet into an omni-dimensional being with a "singularity" which can create time-travelling ghosts, resurrect the dead and control the spacetime continuum, spawning alternate universes when fate is defied. Basically: the planet is not a character with its own will or limitations anymore. Now it’s just a plot device which arbitrarily does whatever the writers arbitrarily want it to do. To say nothing of the multiverse, which is a HUGE deal-breaker for me. See, in order for me to empathize with fictional characters, they have to be UNIQUE. It's a fact of life that: the less unique something is, the more expendable it becomes. Thus, stories featuring multiverses are a VERY hard sell for me, because it's difficult to empathize with the characters when there are now infinite clones of them (I don't believe alternate universes exist IRL, so I don't believe they exist in fiction either UNLESS EXPLICITLY INDICATED). Granted, there are some multiverse stories which DO work. E.g., I love Everything, Everywhere, All At Once, but that's because 1) there were limits on HOW and WHEN universe-hopping could be done, and 2) the multiverse was a METAPHOR to reinforce the movie’s themes; to forward Evelyn's character arc about reconciling with her daughter and being more courteous; to help us better empathize Jobu's depression and nihilism. And lastly, the moral of the story is: even if a multiverse DOES exist, what matters is that you focus on the people/loved ones in YOUR world. Make the best with what you HAVE; don't waste your time on trivial questions like: "what if things had been different?" Also, multiverse stories ONLY work if the different versions of a given character are DISTINCT enough to feel like unique characters of their own. Part of the reason why e.g., No Way Home worked is because the 3 versions of Peter had different ages, personalities and backgrounds - they had different life experiences (despite some commonalities), different love interests and different villains. Thus, they felt like different people. The scenes where they compare and contrast their lives makes them feel like unique individuals rather than just knock-offs of each other. Perhaps most crucially though, multiverses have been pervasive in superhero comics since the 80s. Because of this, I wholly anticipated that the MCU would eventually start hopping into alternate universes as far back as Avengers (2012), so I was able to adjust my expectations for the rest of the franchise going forward. The addition of a multiverse with Dr. Strange and Endgame didn't cheapen the story and characters for me, because I had ALREADY accepted that there were infinite versions of them. Likewise, Everything Everywhere, All At Once was always UPFRONT about the fact that it has a multiverse in it. But FF7 is a story which has already existed for a long time WITHOUT alternate universes. Because of that, its world and characters were always UNIQUE to me; I was able to grow more emotionally invested in them than I EVER could in ANY multiverse story.* *I'm aware of the theory that the ENTIRE FF franchise may possibly be connected by a multiverse. However, such a possibility has never been confirmed and is limited only to trivial details which made it easy for me to ignore (like Gilgamesh's cameos). Simply put: I love FF DESPITE the possibility of an FF multiverse; not BECAUSE of it. But in Rebirth, unfortunately, the presence of a multiverse is impossible to ignore. The addition of a multiverse in 7R was ALWAYS going to end up damaging my experience (regardless of how they executed it); it was INHERENTLY going to TAKE AWAY from my emotional investment in 7's world and characters, but it's made worse by the fact that Remake's characters feel EXACTLY like their OG counterparts. Aside from Cid and Sephiroth (and maybe Aerith), they are EXACTLY like how they were in the OG. This sadly means that they have NO UNIQUE IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. Perhaps a good analogy to explain this would be CLONES in sci-fi stories: if a character gets cloned, the clone WILL die at the end of the story, and nobody will care. Audiences don't care if clones die, because they ARE NOT UNIQUE CHARACTERs - they’re knock-offs of the characters we REALLY care about. When I was playing Remake for the first time, I assumed that its characters were the same ones whom I love from the OG, because almost everything about them was spot-on. So when I got to the ending and learned about the possibility of a multiverse (which Rebirth has since confirmed), it destroyed my ability to see them as unique individuals worth caring about; they're just facets of a larger whole. If Cloud in 7R was a fundamentally different character from OG Cloud (e.g., if his dad was affluent, moved the family to Midgar, and Cloud grew up to be a spoiled rich kid who is then thrust into saving-the-world without having ever experienced hardship), then MAYBE the alternate universe angle could have worked. But as it stands now, I can't care what happens to Rebirth's characters, because they AREN'T UNIQUE PEOPLE whom I can love - they're just ONE out of an infinite variety of CLONES (many of whom are actually shown on-screen in Rebirth). My love of FFVII depends too heavily on its characters and world being unique; too much for me to ever accept multiple versions of them. Also, I don't find Sephiroth even remotely threatening anymore. I couldn't care less about his plan to destroy every possible universe and combine the remains into one. If anything, I'm ROOTING for him to do so. --- And so with that, the realization which I have sadly come to is: the things which I loved most about the original FF7 are not being retained in this trilogy. The 7R project has thoroughly and irreparably undermined them with all these metatextual elements and superhero comic book tropes which the devs are adding. I think the two main reasons why I made this video were 1) to provide solace to those who were also disappointed and 2) to help come to terms with my grief (ala "Writing Therapy"). But it took me 3 years and thousands of hours to make; I don't want to do another project of this scale unless it's something I am deeply passionate about. Now that I have overcome my grief, I feel little more than apathy towards the FF7R trilogy, and I really don't think Square Enix can ever do anything to convince me that Parts 2 and 3 will be worth my time (let alone make a video critiquing of them). I just don't have the passion anymore. It's gotten to the point where I have unfollowed a large number of accounts and muted several terms relating to FFVII (e.g., Cloti, Clerith, Aerith, Tifa, Sephiroth, Costa del Sol, Junon, Gold Saucer, Terrier/Beagle timeline, etc.), because I just don't want to see them anymore. And my home page has been better off for it. If any other content creators invited me onto a podcast or something, I would be willing to discuss what I loved about the OG FFVII in more detail (and what was lost in the 7R trilogy), but for now, it's time for me to move on. Or just stick to the OG with mods.
look at my reincarnation theory. i think whats going on in ff7 remake is lore base not og based. it may not change your mind but i think this is the reason remake had this different feel
@@Soulasiangod I watched your videos and your theory is a very interesting one. However, the problem I have with 7R isn't that all the puzzle pieces don't fit together; it's that I just don't care for the picture(s) they create. I respect your theories and I sincerely hope that the 7R trilogy ends up being everything you ever wanted. I also appreciate your attempts at consolation. But alas, this trilogy is just not for me.
@@obsessive_hermit i think the missing piece for pre fans like you and i is the ff7 books they wrote. in one book they wrote after areith death she battles Seph in the lifestream over souls. while protecting the souls she had to put them in a space most likely the white space we see in remake and AC. but being in a pure white space would be boring so what if see created a world that looks like here home of midgar that all the souls she save can "live" in. but i agree with you its alot for as to put together and chance are hard that the 3rd game will clear all things up. so i dont blame you i just see a small chance they can pull it off.
@@HDY2024 lol before rebirth i was looking for someone to take my theory apart other then its timelines... even tho no timel in ff7 history anything ever say timelines. but because devs dont want the ending spoiled its bettter if people still think the Devs making ff7 a time travel game so the can put the true lore base twist in.
Seeing all those clips of "SPACETIME" "SPACETIME" "SPACETIME" made me think of all those Kingdom Hearts clips of constant "DARKNESS" "LIGHT" "DARKNESS" "LIGHT"
I HATED the ending of remake when it came out, but I had to listen to scores of idiots tell me to just have an open mind, that I could impossibly tell whether it was gonna be good or bad until we see the rest of the product. These people live under the belief that a product can be crap for 99% of the experience and then suddenly become amazing retroactively. Maybe sometimes it can, but I am smart enough to know if something has that potential, and smart enough to see where certain things are going. I saw the iceberg of convolution coming a mile off and SHOCKER, I was right. But now I'll have to hear people say I'm still in the wrong and can't judge until part 3, as if part 3 will suddenly fix all the basic mistakes made so far.
One thing I've learned from the Star Wars sequels is that, if the first entry in a trilogy has MASSIVE storytelling issues (e.g., inconsistencies with established lore, weak characterization, obvious plot holes and forced contrivances), those issues almost certainly will NOT be addressed in the next two installments, because: if the writers were actually talented or cognizant enough to address those issues, they wouldn't have even been there in the first installment to begin with.
Iceburg of Convolution? All you do is whine KH but Remake is nothing remotely difficult to understand. You're just a ass mad baby that refuses to see. So when part 3 comes just disappear and stfu
@@obsessive_hermit What plot holes, what weak characterization? What parts of this are in FF7 remake? OH RIGHT you're speaking out of your ass as a cry baby because they put in the ghosts and changed a few little things lol
No wonder you're "late to the party"! That was an incredible production and the research you did must have taken you 'til now. That was a lot of info to take in let alone compose. Amazing. Closing with your music video using "Within Temptation" was a great closure.
Hey Thanks! The research part actually wasn't that tough, since I am good at finding sources and am quite media-literate. LOL. What did take a long time was figuring out how best to structure the video and word my points; the script underwent A LOT of rewrites on the fly. However, by far the biggest time sink was editing the voiceover recordings (e.g., cutting out click sounds, stitching the best takes together, etc.). If I ever did decide to make another video essay (which would be a LONG ways off if I did), I would definitely make sure to find a more efficient means of editing the narration/voiceover. I love the music video at the end too. Thank God the copyright holder doesn't mind the song appearing in RUclips videos.
This is the most well researched, well thoughtout and well critique that tackles not just FF7 remake but the writing on time travelling and multiverse as a whole.
Because the developers said the added sephiroth so early because everyone already knows who he is, is exactly why I've always felt like they also expected people to have played the original. They changed just enough things (before the ending) that you would only notice if you played thw original. So the both expected people to play they original to make sense of the changes, while also making a confusing game that was meant to bring new players on board. They bring this theme into rebirth as well. You get to chose whether tou want to believe Aeris died, or lived. They could not and would not commit to anything. They needed to try to please everyone. And it backfired as inevitably as that mindset always would.
"So the both expected people to play they original to make sense of the changes, while also making a confusing game that was meant to bring new players on board" It was never meant to bring new players on board, you made that up. The entire game is fanservice meant for people who have played the original.
After replaying the original I urge anyone who hasn’t to do so. You can literally pinpoint the moment this industry had to be taken seriously. People forget the impact this game had. How everything before it was so vastly inferior that it’s hard for current generation to even fathom the impact
Great video. I've enjoyed your comments for years, so I'm not surprised to see something so well articulated and well thought out. You covered a lot but kept it entertaining (and funny). Thank you for the callouts to my own channel. It's very much appreciated. Also fascinating to learn that Super Eyepatch Wolf published some comments on Remake. I wagered he would feel this way on the game, but I had assumed he remained quiet. I hope you make another vid (be it FF or otherwise). Consider me a fan. By the way, the cosplay is a neat idea.
Thank you so much for the positive feedback and support, Orion! It'll be a long time before I make another video (very busy in my personal life now), but I have considered doing a retrospective critique/analysis of the remake trilogy after it's all over. However, that will depend on whether I ultimately decide to play Parts 2 and 3 or not, and whether or not they succeed in winning me back. The idea behind dressing as Makoto Shishio was that I don't want my face to appear online (i.e., AI, surveillance, targeted advertising, deepfakes, etc.), but I still wanted people to be able to read my facial expressions. And it just so happens that one of my cosplays worked perfectly for it LOL.
Great video, current Square Enix is an asylum run by inmates that I wouldn’t trust to order Doordash. I wouldn’t exactly compare Sakaguchi to a warden, but he led the monkeys to make some truly amazing work that are still milked to this day. It’s genuinely disappointing that the OG fans are eating up the fanfic like rewrite instead of a remake they wanted, while the new tourist fans are just happily confused and distracted by pretty visuals.
What irks me is that Remake was my first introduction to FF7 & I loved it. Not got a clue what's going on but I loved it. Then I played OG. Loved it. Then I played Rebirth, they ruined Dyne's payoff, Nanaki's payoff felt underwhelming & the ending left me scratching my head rather than feeling grief after losing Aerith. Now I know how some OG fans feel after Remake's ending. It's a shame really because the combat, the characterisation, presentation & music is so good.
I think the biggest problem us OG FF7 fans have with this remake series is that it just doesn't feel like FF7 anymore, the themes of the story are different. So why attach the FF7 name to it?
@@LordMalice6d9 This is just the new FF7. They are remaking FF7 in the sense that they are just making an updated interpretation of that story. It is not a sequel or connected to the original game in any way like people were speculating after the ending to Remake. They are just rewriting FF7 where they shove all this compilation stuff into it and change things because...reasons?
I am glad that you were able to experience the original game and see why it is so beloved. The original FF7 was not just my first jrpg, it was the game that turned me from someone who played games on occasion to really getting into the hobby. It was the first time I had ever been drawn into a world. So it was a very influential game in my life. I could have been won over on the whispers and this idea of changing fate depending on what they did with it going forward. Because the whispers were just setup. What they did with it was going to determine how good or bad their inclusion was. Except what Rebirth did was nonsensical and defeating the whispers was almost pointless that I can't see it as anything but detrimental to the story of FF7. Rebirth is such a narrative mess where they change things that don't need to be changed, certain characters, like Cid, are just rewritten to be different characters entirely. They miss the point of Aerith's death and why it worked. Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of Rebirth that I did like but so much of it is just terrible.
Music is good, except sometimes even the music gets unnecessary reimagining. sephiroths new theme is a Frankensteins monster of a theme, interesting to listen to, but ultimately just not something I'd come back to over and over.
It's oddly comforting knowing people still care about this. Remake was a fun game but every change they've made to the story has been for the worse. Plus the whole thing has been padded to hell. The original has a special place in my heart because it was the first time I'd seen such an intriguing story in a game. It's sad to watch them take that story and remove the stakes with such bad writing. I tried the Rebirth demo in the hopes they'd learned their lesson but I couldn't finish it. Sephiroth was weak so they got storytelling through gameplay wrong. And the demo kept making me vacuum gas so even the gameplay was mixed with tedium. I disliked it so much I looked up spoilers for the game, which I hope are wrong. I won't mention it here. If it's right it's really stupid and will be undone in the next game.
I disagree that EVERY change made was for the worse (I think the Honeybee Inn is better, actually), and I LOVE the combat and new character designs. However, I agree that the OVERARCHING plot and narrative were thoroughly compromised, and Sephiroth is just quaint now. It's gonna take a some SERIOUS writing talent to win me back, and I doubt SE can pull off something this messy. Either way, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! :)
@@ForceEdge47 no. So he said he tried the demo. The demo is where you play as sephiroth, so him finding seph weak means he found PLAYABLE sephiroth weak which is WILD LOL
I know. That part really aged poorly. I haven't played Rebirth, and I probably never will now that I've read up on how its story pans out. I plan on pinning a comment detailing my stance on it under this video, but I'm taking my time figuring out how to word it.
@@obsessive_hermit I think it says it all that instead of all the videos about the ending talking about how sad they are Aerith died it's just everyone being confused and trying to figure out wtf even happened. Took what is widely considered the saddest moment in gaming and sucked any emotion out of it.
Sometimes it seems like they've been exposed to that kinda media way later than the rest of the world, who has grown mostly tired of it in the past couple of years@@Weiss_Hikari
@@obsessive_hermit As* a game, Rebirth is honestly mindblowingly good, and even the story isn't all that changed until the end. The ending is just plain confusing, but the game is still 10/10, just for that experience alone it's worth it to be honest...because everything good you said about the remake, in rebirth is trippled.
I feel like multiverse is a marketing technique. You keep the well known brand and characters and get to sell product to a larger audience than if you start with a new game with new characters.
I think your second sentence refers more to the use of the FFVII BRAND, rather than the multiverse per se. But still, I agree with you. The whole "alternate/lifestream worlds" gimmick feels like it exists only for marketing reasons. E.g., the developers can put scenes like Barret, Tifa, Aerith and Nanaki dead in Midgar into Rebirth's trailer and thus generate speculation, only for Rebirth to come out and say: "Actually, that was all just happening in limbo; none of what we showed in the trailers actually mattered." This is another reason why I don't believe this trilogy will end well. The developers are prioritizing internet theories and short-term thrills at the cost of coherence and long-term MEANING. 30 years from now, people will still be talking about how great the OG's story was, and the Remake trilogy will likely be seen as an experiment which didn't pay off as well as was hoped.
It’s funny how every few months I find a video that pretty accurately describes my thoughts on remake and the whole project. Good job, it was a great watch. Also. Really appreciate Within Temptation at the end. Bringing back some good memories. 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I first played FF7 more than 20 years ago as a child, and again when it released on the ps3 store and while I enjoyed it at surface value back then, it wasnt my favorite of the FFs that I had played previously. It wasnt until I replayed it more recently some years before Remake, during a time of hardship due to the loss of a close family member, that FF7 genuinely resonated with me. I guess I needed a means to cope or way to accept or move on from it, but the greatest difficulty was seeing and dealing with how it affected the rest of the family. As I played through FF7 I began to notice patterns, themes n such develop throughout the story, the characters and what they are going through. Certainly had much more teary eyed moments this time around. After finishing the game, I realized that what I was going through at the time and my experiences, arent much different than what Cloud the others went through during their journey. There is a lot of death and losing those close to you in the game, but more significantly, how they fought through those struggles. I came to the realization that under the surface, FF7s main theme or message its trying to convey is about overcoming and accepting loss...I also came to later learn through retrospectives and analysis', that one of the main developers also suffered a very close loss and struggled with it as I did, and implemented that into the game, thus is the theme... Needless to say, this struck quite a few major chords with me and I was in totally teary dumbfoundedness. To post preface, I did play the spins off and didnt care much for most of them mostly because of how much of what I value out of FF7 is non-existent(except maybe CC), and also most of the KH games. But when they announced the Remake, I was ecstatic, yet bitter sweet seeing Nomura as the Director...cuz reasons. I still played it and loved just about everything it offered and expanded upon, except the notable changes and of the course the ending to which I was very indifferent. I took some to collect and ponder my feelings and came to understand that its basically a pre-sequel, tying or dare I say retconning in the many spin offs into a collective work, possibly leading in to AC or something entirely new(?) The Remake & Rebirth stray very heavily from the OG themes that I hold dear and value, then and even now. Reason being, the alternate timeline / uni-mulitverse stuff, everything pertaining to those themes of loss, loses all impact and meaning. So much so for me, that I just dont care anymore and am sadly only in it for morbid curiosities sake and the other reasons my younger self enjoyed it. I probably wouldve gobbled this trilogy up back then too. I am still, however, reserving judgement in hopes of a total subversion at the trilogies conclusion, harkening back the OG themes, but given how Remake / Rebirth began and ended, idk. I hope Im completely blind, but all Im beginning to see is the narrative devolving into a generic defy fate, kill bad guy(s), save universes kinda thing. But if people like it and find value in it then great and Im glad for them. Because FF7 once did the very same for me, albeit maybe for different reasons, but FF7R is a different FF7.
I resonate with your perspective. It's one of my biggest criticisms of this trilogy as well, and why I've decided to jump ship: the developers have eschewed so much of what helped set the original game apart from other "save the world" stories (which we see all the time in fiction), and reduced it to yet another vapid "save the multiverse" story which falls flat emotionally and has been DONE TO DEATH in superhero comic books.
03:04:56 "I am not the sort of person who can just embrace chaos as it comes and goes I need structure: good writing, pacing, in universe plausibility, high stakes tension and drama, relatable characters, relatable themes, and characters in whose struggles I am invested, are the things I care about most in story telling." Did you ever play Lost Odyssey? That game was written by Hironobu Sakaguchi and and has all the things your asking for. The setting of the story is in a fantasy world that has multiple protagonists in a similar vein to FF6, one of which is Kaim, a man who is an immortal who travels across the world meeting various people throughout his lONG life. Since not everyone in that fantasy world is immortal. And the story focuses on the pains of being able to live forever, with questions like "What happens when the ones you grows bonds with grow old and die?" Or "What happens if an immortal is locked off from the rest of society unable to communicate with anyone but unable to die?" This and many more questions are explored in this game. There are other interesting characters in the game as well, with characters being super relatable, with ALL of them getting TONS of development, with many of them being completely different characters by the end of the story compared to how they were in the beginning. And all of this is wrapped up by an AMAZING soundtrack by Nobou Uematsu ( seriously, the battle them goes so HARD). On the other hand, the game play is a traditional turn base game, with nothing to innovative going on there. But that's not what people who praise this game focus on. That would be it's narrative, pacing, music, and characters which are all SUPERB. Seriously it's a great game. And is currently tied as my favorite JRPG with FF9. You need a 360 to play it though.
I really want to play Lost Odyssey but I don't have an Xbox 360. I think I'll just save up for a new PC and hope that Xbox emulators get better (I played Shadow of the Colossus on a PS2 emulator). Or I'll borrow an Xbox 360 from a friend.
@@obsessive_hermitI bought Lost Odyssey once, and after I beat it for the first time and the credits began to role. I was so in love with what I experienced that I went out and bought ANOTHER copy just in case my original purchase product broke and wouldn't be able to play this masterpiece. Which is something I rarely do. And I enjoyed the dark subjects the game explores such as abuse, and forced isolation. And unlike FF7Remake, death is ACTUALLY permanent for MANY characters in this story. And the game had MULTIPLE moments that made me tear up. I also feel like the game handles romance WAY better than what was better in many Final Fantasys. For instance, in like FF10( And I'm sorry, but that who sequence that started with the kissing scene being Tidus and Yuna over the water was so ridiculous that I couldn't take it seriously). In comparison. Lost Odyssey has has one of the most beautifully directed romance scenes I've scene in a JRPG.
I watched a Lot of Critiques for this Game(many which you even inserted in your video)questioning myself even to be considered a ff7 fan(since so many love this game),to reaffirm my beliefs. your video finally cured that itch,and my soul can rest. Thank You❤
I'm glad I could be of help. Nobody wants to experience grief alone. If it's any consolation, I recently started replaying the original game with mods installed, including: New Threat 2.0 (combat only), ReMusic, Ninostyle character models, environmental overhauls, AI-enhanced FMVs and backgrounds, Project Edge backgrounds, new sound effects, UI changes, Shinra Archeology's retranslation, some gameplay tweaks and more. It's REALLY damn good, and I can't wait to see what else the modders do as time goes on. Yes, it's sad that fans like you and I will never get a truly faithful adaptation of the original game's story with the 7R trilogy's tech. and production budget, but I think we should take what we can get. I really hope that one day, someone can take FMVs and voice acting from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once said trilogy is finished).
I'm the guy from Indonesia whom you've told about this channel & video. I've just finished watching the entire video in both two nights. Words are probably not even enough to express how I deeply respect & admire you for doing something of such an epic, MASSIVE scale like this, and also on a PROFESSIONAL level with so many references, citations, sources, & researches. This is actually something that people must STUDY or learn seriously, in my opinion, really. Again, I'd say honestly that it's sad, however, of how very 'underrated' & practically almost 'unknown' such an EXCELLENT quality video like yours is. It's like that popular phrase somehow that: "the loudest voices is often the most obnoxious ones", sadly/unfortunately. That's just the reality of the world we're in, it seems. Please NEVER ever stop creating & making videos/contents of highest-quality like this. Subscribed, liked, & turned on the notifications. Consider me now also as a big/huge fan of you (& your works). Hopefully this one single little voice from a random stranger on the Internet yet who deeply cares for a smart, deep, real, honest, & quality content analysis like of yours, would actually do matter also to/for you personally. Because your video DOES MATTER for me personally, & deeply. Thank you very much. Once again, much & deepest respect, kudo, salute, & admiration for your excellent quality work! A big fan of yours from Indonesia.
Hey, thanks for the kind words and support, man! RUclips's algorithms are designed to promote videos that get lots of watch time, so the longer and more engaging the video, the better (as the saying goes: "you either go big or you go home"). Thus, I sought to make this video as comprehensive, concise and professional-looking as possible. I have a few ideas knocking around in my head for what else I could do with this channel. However, this video alone took me over three years to create and my personal life has been getting quite busy lately, so don't expect any new uploads anytime soon. LOL. But again: thank you so much!
I really appreciate the effort you put into this. I don't evaluate narratives or experiences in a way that aligns with many of your criticisms but appreciate you articulating them and explaining how they impact the narratives for you.
Hey, Seal. It's a pleasant surprise to see you here. Glad to hear you appreciate this critique, even though we disagree on the trilogy. I've been meaning to thank you for the reply you left under one of my tweets a few weeks back (the one about Crisis on Infinite VIIs). People like me sometimes need tough chiding in order to self-reflect and regain sanity. Your words helped me to realize that there's no point in continuing to be bitter about this trilogy, because it's not going to change anything, nor will it make me feel any better. Making this video was a form of writing therapy for me, and it's helped me to finally come to terms with my grief. I've accepted that the 7R trilogy will never be for me, which is sad to admit, but has in many ways been a relief. I'm still a bit despondent, but reducing the amount of FF7R-related material on my timeline (and more-or-less leaving the fandom) is helping me to move on. If nothing else, I can stick to the original game; I'd be interested to see how the modders can enhance it using the 7R trilogy's assets.
I just finished your video and I gotta say I really appreciate the incredible effort you've put into the editing and organization of the entire thing! I'm really glad I had the time to watch it all in one sitting and absorb everything you've prepared. I did wanna share something briefly related to a point you made about multiverses/time travel around 2/3rds of the way in. Within Square Enix there's another series called Drakengard (better known from it's "spin-off" series, NieR) which handles such topics with loads more finesse and understanding of the points you make. Time travel in the series is such an esoteric and unknown concept as a whole that at the point of writing, it's merely a tool of the writer to state why there is a parallel universe to our reality where dragons and a modern day city are in medieval Europe. It's something there as part of the larger overarching series's narrative and something which kicks off stakes (and isn't even used in the games as a mechanic so double win!). As for the multiverse part, the series keeps itself contained by managing it like a Bonsai tree. There is one main trunk of the timeline tree, and various forces are micromanaging divergent branches and possible alternate events to keep things on track. It's really brilliant how the writing team and the director of Drakengard/NieR, Yoko Taro, can entertain the idea of "what if" scenarios and time loops and a bunch of crazy plot devices that destroy games like FF7 Remake by simply maintaining a singular focus on the unique characters (and shutting down timelines that branch too far so that we don't have the expendable character scenario you described). Of course, this stuff is actually background noise to what these games in particular truly focus on, and that's engaging character driven stories and unorthodox player interaction with the game. There is a single, isolated story to draw your attention and keep you entertained and attached to the characters, and as a bonus you can then dive into bonus materials and side content and other stories which may add context to the main games' stories, but are never REQUIRED to properly understand the story of the games. This is what the writing staff behind Compilation of FF7 (and clearly FF13 as well) have completely backwards. I will say the series is a little hard to approach at times and has confounded me in ways I wish I could articulate better, but the writers clearly understand how to create and tell a story in an effective manner, even when they dare to do so in unorthodox and bizarre ways. I'd really recommend it if you haven't played it, even if just to return a shred of hope that there are still talented and capable heads at Square Enix lol. Apologies for the long-winded thoughts, but I just really appreciated you breaking down exactly why FF7R (and various other modern FF stories) fail to have satisfying endings. Great video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I've seen an influx of viewers lately, and it's great to see that all my time and effort spent making this video is paying off. :) I'm not that familiar with NieR. I tried playing NieR: Automata a while ago, but it didn't click for me and I quit playing at the point where 9S went missing. Pixel A Day has a video explaining why she didn't enjoy the game, and my impressions are about the same as hers. That said, I've heard NieR: Replicant is pretty good and that it may "scratch that Final Fantasy itch" somewhat, though whether or not I can get into it, only time will tell. But I have a long list of other games which I'm trying to get through first. "[It shuts] down timelines that branch too far so that we don't have the expendable character scenario you described." I'm confused as to what you mean by this. Are you saying that the only branching realities are very similar to the "main" universe? Because that wouldn't make things better for me. One of my contentions with multiverse stories is that they ONLY work if the different-universe versions of a given character are sufficiently DISTINCT enough to feel like unique characters of their own. Part of the reason why e.g., No Way Home worked is because the 3 versions of Peter/Spidey had different ages, personalities and backgrounds - they had different life experiences (despite some commonalities), different love interests and different villains. Thus, they felt like different people. The scenes where they compare and contrast their lives makes them feel like unique individuals rather than just knock-offs of each other. A major problem with Remake's characters is that they feel EXACTLY like their OG counterparts. Aside from Cid and Sephiroth (and maybe Aerith), they are EXACTLY like how they were in the OG, in terms of personality, backgrounds, actions and motivations. This unfortunately means that they have NO UNIQUE IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. If Cloud in 7R was a fundamentally different character from OG Cloud (e.g., if his dad was affluent, moved the family to Midgar, and Cloud grew up to be a spoiled rich kid who is eventually thrust into saving-the-world without having ever experienced hardship), then MAYBE the alternate universe angle could have worked. But as it stands now, 7R's multiverse angle has destroyed my ability to see the characters as unique individuals worth caring about - they're just ONE out of an infinite variety of CLONES. Can you elaborate?
@@obsessive_hermit Ah, yeah forgive me for my poor explanation. Luckily we have several examples of those branched reality events and characters being very different from the main timeline (the former example rather than the latter). A good example I can use is Drakengard 1.3, which is several hundreds of years down the line of Drakengard 3's ending A. The main characters we're familiar with from Drakengard 1 which still exist in Drakengard 1.3 have altered histories and don't experience the same events as their main timeline counterparts. Even one of the main systems of magic in the universe is absent in this branch so it drastically alters how the story plays out. (Sorry if I seem slightly vague, I don't want to drop major spoilers in the comment section). What I feel is important though is that these branched alternate reality characters are extremely rare and more so a facet of the very early series history rather than something they keep doing. Drakengard 3 is where we get to see who or what is in charge of determining when a branch in the timeline needs to be shut down, and thankfully this almost always happens immediately. It emphasizes the importance of the main timeline's story and characters while dramatically reducing the number of alternate versions of the characters down to No Way Home levels of 2 or 3 at most. Again, I don't want to heavily spoil the games, but I hope I've said enough to give you a sense that the series has structures and limitations in place so that we don't have a million or even just five copies of the same person, and that anytime we do have more than one version of a character, their stories dont feel like carbon copies of one another. But otherwise, I do actually relate with you in regards to NieR: Automata. I had a significantly better time connecting with the characters and story of Replicant than I did Automata, so whenever you feel like trying it out I definitely suggest giving Replicant a try!
I still do not think it is a multiverse. I think what Nojima is doing it is telling his "On The Way To a Smile: Lifestream White and Black" story that he himself wrote. That is what I think this FF7 remake series is headed.
The ending was terrible. The “meta-plot-ghosts” were terrible. The OG fanbase was hoodwinked, they clearly mislead us in a malicious way. I don’t trust FF Union’s polls; regardless of the game, they never say a bad word about SE and clearly have a direct link to them. I will play Rebirth and the 3rd iteration, but I can already say, the new direction is nonsensical. I believe we are far many then the “toxic voices” you see online. Here courtesy of Orion 😉. Thanks for your videos and giving us a voice
I agree with most of your points. However, I disagree that FF Union's poll is untrustworthy (i.e., that they forged the results). While I do argue in the video that said poll may not accurately reflect the Remake player base (e.g., due to sampling bias), I don't think that this is due to any amount of lying or dishonesty on FFUnion's part. Just the circumstance of how internet polls work. Much as FF Union may have sponsorships and connections to Square Enix, I don't believe that they would lie about the poll results. If they had, then that would be sending inaccurate info. to the devs, which would not be good for the overall quality of 7R trilogy in the long term. But I'm glad that I'm able to give a voice to those like yourself, who also felt letdown and deceived by Remake.
Hey, thanks for the reply. Yeah, it’s cool dude, I know you weren’t saying that. I don’t think they outright lie either, however one must consider FF Unions position. From a business perspective, they have an incentive to continue their “special relationship” with SE. I think minimal tweaks or slightly adjusting their sampling (eg. eliminating a sub-category from the end result) in order to dampen any given controversial subject matter, isn’t outside the realm of possibility. As they say “there’s lies, damn lies and statistics”. They wouldn’t like to see those perks and incentives which drive their business forward to suddenly dry up after a survey they release confirms consumer criticisms with hard data. This is actually quite common these days, particularly in the film industry. Obviously I have no data to back up what I suspect FF Union are doing and I’m just some guy, what do I know 😄, but it would not surprise me at all if they were doing it. Cheers for the chat 👍🏻
@@oliversmith9296 Yes you can lie by stats but then we enter the realm of subjectivity and we can't have a productive discussion. And the Nomura death threats should probably stop
@@matten_zero Not quite sure what the correlation is you’re trying to draw between FF Union’s polls and Nomura, but cool we agree, statistics can be manipulated, what’s the problem? I was simply giving context on how this may be the case. Your attempt at moving the goal posts though is in fact what hinders and shuts down productive discussion. No one here is talking about sending death threats to developers, if that’s on your mind dude, you should probably get outside and touch some grass. The spirit of the discussion was healthy criticism of FF7R. This video did a fantastic job of that.
@@oliversmith9296 Those are fair points. But I've been in these circles for a minute. Not saying this is you or anyone in this comments section, but I've just seen the more toxic side of the Nomura-hate squad. I grew up seeing this happen to Hideaki Anno and it is something endemic of otaku/gaming communities in general. That's my knee jerk reaction to the purists.
I'm cracking up at the FFXIII to FF7R direct comparisons lol. (@1:12:59) Glad someone is finally pointing this out so clearly. The FF7R to FFXIII story parallels could be it's own detailed video. Something I've suspected for a while now is that Motomu Toriyama (and possibly Hamaguchi too) is just repackaging certain story elements that he wrote in the FFXIII series into FF7R. I think he's convinced that they were good story telling tropes/beats (debatable), but they just didn't land with the FF fans because of FFXIII's other issues. And he seems to be getting his wish as it looks like the fandom at large isn't really noticing these storytelling issues because they either haven't played or don't remember XIII, or are just uncritical of those plot elements when they are sandwiched between the beloved setting and characters of FFVII. Like the scene at the end of the highway, where the characters assume that their vision of Meteor is the "vision of what will happen if we fail today"... is a direct parallel to FFXIII Chapter 3 when the characters are branded as L'cie and assume that the vision they all see is Cocoon being destroyed (supposedly a "bad ending"), when actually its a vision of the ending where Cocoon is saved at the end of the game. And one of the trailers for Rebirth literally uses the phrase "Worlds collide", which is the title of a Battle track in FFXIII-2 where the lyrics mention "Gates through timelines", "fix the past", and "My destiny my change your fate". There's a strange kind of irony happening here where those of us who are supposedly "blinded by nostalgia" are able to accurately point out all the ways these storytelling tropes have flopped in the past, but other fans are unaware of these issues because they've been hidden alongside fun characters in a familiar/"Nostalgic" setting.
I think the positive reception of Remake and Rebirth is artificially maintained by the fact that both games end on massive, unresolved cliffhangers which leave many fence-sitters HOPING that those issues will be resolved in Part 3 (hopes and dreams for the future are boundless, whereas the eventual reality will be hampered by various flaws and limitations). I suspect that when Part 3 finally wraps up and answers all these mysteries which Remake introduced, it will break the whole story for a lot fans (since they'll no longer be able to use theory-crafting to rationalize the problems, nor dismiss said problems by merely waiting for the next part to come out). I'm sure many will still defend it, but I suspect the FF7R trilogy will lose a lot of people when Part 3 answers everyone's questions, and that it will prove the following: the FFXIII trilogy's writing was so bloody awful that not even FFVII could get people to love it. I honestly dislike Toriyama's writing even more than Nomura's, because much as I dislike Nomura's style (i.e., ALL of the important stuff happens at the end while the preceding 40 hours are nothing but filler), Nomura at least seems to be aware that many people dislike his writing. Toriyama seems to GENUINELY think that he's GOOD at writing time-travel/destiny stories, and that level of ignorance plus hubris flat-out disgusts me.
I confess, I was sitting on the fence. My wishful reasoning was this ending was just stupid sequel hook and way to get people speculating, but they surely wouldn't be that reckless when big moments happen later. I was careful not to buy Rebirth though before watching cutscenes first. And now I most certainly won't. Never trusting SE again. It hurts even more that they show they are capable of respecting characters and story large portions of game, they just choose not to when it matters. Thank you for this video. This was strangely catharctic experience. I shared many of same feelings but you skillfully provided context for them. I think I can move on with my life now.
Excellent work. Well researched and well presented. Loved it. I watched from start to finish and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. Excellent analysis!
@@dinoXAs2Because they do not have anywhere near the same talent that they had back then. Even when they have many of the original FF7 dev names attached to it like Nomura, Kitase and Nojima.
@@hmnanda I originally saw interviews with them saying their creativity was restrained in the OG and now they could make the game they wanted and I thought "Good! As good as the OG was I can't wait till I see how they expand it!" But now I'm really disappointed that just took the IP and turned it into whatever these first 2 games are...
Seeing so many creators come out about their disappointment foe the FF7R trilogy is so relieving. Believe it or not, I fucking predicted this shit from day 1 of the Remake being announced, skeptical of it actually *being a remake*. After seeing its ending, I knew Remake and its next 2 parts were all sequel meta-multi-verse shit, I could see it from a mile away, and the smug toxic-positivity fandom all REE-ed that it was a remake-remake not a sequel! You just don't like that remakes change things sometimes! Insert all other excuses! Just wait until Rebirth launches and you'll see! And I sit here, seeing Rebirth did exactly as I knew it would, and I feel nothing but bliss (honestly, bitter-sweet bliss) that yes, THIS is the direction 7R was going in. A multiverse sequel meta commentary. And I had successfully avoided it being well read in the type of people working at Square. As a concept artist developing my own fantasy comic myself, many friends have asked me "Why don't you go into art as your career" (Mind when I tell this story, it is not to say I disagree with people like me pursuing an art career, but this is what I want for *myself*) and I tell them that my greatest inspiration was always Nomura, a fantastic concept artist I had looked up to for years. Then I tell them while Nomura was my greatest inspiration, he is also my greatest beast I do not wish to ever become: That my own hubris and love for my ideas would make me unable to reliquish them to other's more capable hands if I needed to, so that I would destroy the art I desired to make. This is unfortunately what has happened in 7R: those who have climbed to a higher power from a once highly-specialized and important, yet small role in creating a greater art (In this case, concept artist Nomura now director) are unable to admit they do not have the capable hands to take their ideas and execute them proper, or to be able to say "No" to ideas that they love so much. The reason I cannot make art as my career is because of the stakes that ride on my decisions as an artist, especially if I did accumulate a higher position of creative power. As a hobby artist, there are no stakes. You can make mistakes, experiment, and what have you. I can enjoy my art and have to disappoint nobody but myself if I mess up. I can take all the time in the world to refine my practice, and then share if I so wish. So I choose not to make art a career. As an artist and a writer, it takes a lot of will to limit yourself, to tell yourself "No, this doesn't work. You need to rework it or scrap it." and it certainly, no doubt, takes a lot of humility to pass your concepts to someone more capable than you, to "risk" that person to take your concept in a way you may not anticipate or like, but will be better executed than you are capable of. I apologize for the ramblings. I was so pent up and fiery after seeing the video. I love FF and especially FF7. I have loved Nomura's work as a concept artist. To see the things I have loved so utterly destroyed because of, what, arrogance? Misplaced love? Spite? Lord knows. It wounds me so much more than it makes me smile in "I told you so."
I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with you. I've recently considered writing my own novel, as I am a pretty decent writer with good drawing skills and a very clear vision of what type of story I'd like to tell. However, should I ultimately get around to writing and publishing such a book, I would not want to make a career out of it. I am an EXTREME quality > quantity guy: I like to take time with my work; refining it to make it as good as can be. Thus, if I did write such a novel, it would solely be a passion project (which I could still make money off of ONLY INCIDENTALLY). I wouldn't want to turn writing/drawing into a full-time career, as economic incentives always force people to prioritize quantity > quality. I don't think Nomura is solely to blame for what the 7R trilogy is doing. From what I can tell based on interviews, it seems that the worst Nomura wanted was to include some kind of twist at the end of Remake which would keep people guessing until Rebirth came out (and the design of the whispers is clearly Nomura's style). But that is SURFACE-LEVEL involvement. Nomura may have wanted Remake to have an ambiguous twist ending which would drive discussion online, but the actual CONTENTS of the twist we got (e.g., the time-travel/destiny/multiverse BS) seems to be Toriyama's and Nojima's doing, because the former is obsessed with those things, and Nojima wanted to "bring [the entire FFVII subseries] together" and give Zack a bigger role in the story (thus, Nojima presumably thought that a multiverse was the only way he could do that). Nomura's mistake is that he didn't veto enough of Toriyama's/Nojima's ideas, perhaps due to ignorance, social pressure or maybe because he'd vetoed enough of their ideas already and Kitase wouldn't let him veto anymore. Kitase is the worst of the bunch: he's a trend-chaser with no respect for the past (e.g., he thinks that those godawful mobile ports of FFV and FFVI look better the original SNES sprites).
i agree with you. nomura should NEVER be allowed to write. he can draw but his writing skills are horrendous. FF15 was in dev hell for a decade because of him. I never buy anything from the man again. Also Nojima is a horrible writer also. Final Fantasy peaked with Tactics and the entire Ivalice series, 12, Advance, A2, Vagrant Story. if it isnt a Matsuno game, i dont touch ANYTHING final fantasy.
@@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw Tactics A2 was my first FF game and I love the world . Later played ff12:zodiac age and it was a blast walking throguh it.
One thing that I realized with this now being a multiverse story characters death don’t have anywhere near the same impact since there’s an exact copy of them in another universe
hey! i'm here from orion's community post. i just want to say that i first played the original back in 2018 back when i was in middle school and fell in love with it so much to the point that 6 years later i still consider that game to be my favorite ever. i watched advent children back in the day too, and as i was younger i just though it "was cool" and couldn't really criticize it as much as i could now, but that's a topic for another comment. i read up on a bunch of the compilation stuff as well. i replayed the original before i played the remake in summer 2020 and remembered all the reasons i still loved this game. needless to say i was more than excited to go into the remake, and sure enough as a birthday present i was gifted a copy of the remake. and i loved it for the most part! i too loved the characterization, the near perfect combination of action and RPG combat, and a lot of the added depth to the world. and holy shit i LOVED the remade soundtrack. however, one thing that stuck with me after playing the remake was its ending. i could call it out for the bullshit it was. to me it felt like a giant "fuck you" to wanting something but then immediately being met with something so unnecessarily meta and for seemingly an unknown payoff or even none altogether. who knows? after going through a brainrot phase for a bit after just going through all that ff7 content (i even decided to play crisis core for how awful it is LOL), i fell into a rabbithole of theory crafting and kind of also fell into taking theory crafting from others as gospel like you said in your video. eventually i fell out of that too because i realized it's all pointless until we see what the devs actually cook up. now here we are; less than 2 weeks before the release of rebirth. in that time between the theory crafting era and now, i've replayed the original game twice more, played crisis core reunion, rewatched advent children, played the yuffie DLC for the remake, and got the platinum trophy for the remake. i feel like i've known it all for a while now. i thought i'd have some idea of what's going to happen, but i don't. i guess that's why i've fallen back into a rabbithole of watching remake critique videos. suffice it to say, i think this video here has by FAR been the best one i've seen. i'm actually so surprised at how you brought up ideas that i remembered feeling playing remake the first time, and even some that i wouldn't have thought of until now. all the while keeping stuff that could keep me engaged and entertained through a 3 hour video essay. truly the best critique i've seen on youtube; most level headed, most professional, and most engaging i've seen in a while. consider me a fan, honestly. as for my thoughts on rebirth and part 3? i've already invested too much time and energy into the entire series for me not to play them as they come out, so i might as well. i can still fully see why you'd want to wait out for spoilers come out for the series, however. i wish nothing but the best for you and hope that you make more videos like these!
Thanks so much for the kind words and feedback, my friend! :) RUclips's algorithms are designed to promote videos and channels which get more watch time (measured in raw seconds/minutes/hours; not percentage of the video itself), and your video needs to look professional and be extremely concise/to-the-point if you want people to keep watching it. For that reason, I decided early on that I had to either: "go big or go home." It's good to know that my efforts have paid off. "I'm actually so surprised at how you brought up ideas that I remembered feeling playing Remake the first time, and even some that I wouldn't have thought of until now." Thank you for noticing this! When writing the script, I tried really hard to remember how I felt when playing the game and its ending for the first time, because I've noticed a lot of fans saying that they hated the ending at first but later came around to it after a 2nd or 3rd playthrough and/or after watching some theory videos on RUclips. However, tons of people out there don't play games more than once, and not every gamer is interested in theory-crafting, nor may they even care enough to post their impressions online. Heck, some won't even LIKE most of the theories that RUclipsrs have come up with (I am one such player). For those people, the developers only get ONE chance at a first impression, and I find that Remake royally shit the bed in that regard, because the entire ending feels forced and devoid of buildup; consequently breaking the player's immersion and not leaving them with anything to root for. Thus, when writing the script, I really sought to emphasize how the game feels to a more skeptical audience member - someone who is a lot more picky about the media they choose to engage with. I'd consider myself such a player, since I am neither a hardcore FFVII devotee nor a fresh newcomer. Rather, I just want a well-told story and will come-and-go depending on whether that criteria is met. E.g., I haven't played Dirge of Cerberus because it's awful, nor Crisis Core because I see no point in prequels, and I skipped a lot of MCU movies wherever I could out of convenience (e.g., I skipped Ant-Man and Ant-Man 2, Captain America: The First Avenger and The Incredible Hulk because they aren't essential to understanding Infinity War and Endgame). A general rule when creating entertainment is the following: you've got the most hardcore fans no matter what; they'll still follow your franchise even if you have to drag them kicking and screaming the whole way. You need to win over the UNDECIDED. And unfortunately, Remake's ending doesn't exactly leave the undecided players with anything particular to remain invested in - that has been left entirely dependent on the theory-crafters. So if you're not into theory-crafting, the ending alone kind of leaves you feeling alienated and unsure as to WHY you should even bother picking up the next game. Don't feel as though you HAVE to love the 7R trilogy and pick up Rebirth simply because of all the time and cash you've already sunk into it. That's the sunk cost fallacy, and I suspect it's fueling a lot of the toxicity and defensiveness that we see Remake's defenders weaponizing against critics (I'm not saying YOU'RE toxic; just to be clear). If you're not enjoying something, it's best to (at least be willing to) jump ship before even MORE of your time/cash is wasted. It's never too late to change one's mind (and I say that as someone who spent over 3 years and at least a thousands hours making this video). Personally, I don't want to risk wasting anymore time and money on a story which might not even be worth it, which is why I'm waiting for all the spoilers to come out before I make my final decision. I've though about what else I could do with my channel, but life has been getting rather busy lately and I don't want to put myself through something so laborious again. If I ever do decide to make another video essay, it will be a long ways off (i.e., years from now), as this is solely a passion project and not something I'd want to make a career out of. But thank you so much for your support and viewership!
@@obsessive_hermit "I've noticed a lot of fans saying that they hated the ending at first but later came around to it after a 2nd or 3rd playthrough and/or after watching some theory videos on RUclips." i personally never really understood this from fans. it's essentially admitting to being a sheep in a herd. it's telling that you (as in the fans into theory crafting) NEED other people to tell you what to think what will happen. you lack independent thought, and only regurgitate opinions that you hear from the masses. personally, i've always disliked the ending of remake (and this is coming from someone who likes to think of themself as an ff7 devotee who's been through so many playthroughs of the game and its spinoffs), and while i did engage in theory crafting from content creators like Sleepezi even he makes notice that he can't really tell what's going to happen and his videos are all just educated guesses. yet toxic fans seem to ignore that and just go around with saying "BUT MAX DOOD SAID THIS!!! CONTENT CREATOR XYZ SAID THIS!!! THIS INTERVIEW WITH HAMAGUCHI SAID THIS CRYPTID!!!" as if it's all 100% fact when you just can't know until you experience it all yourself and/or have it told to you in retrospect. and it sucks that we have to go through this with people who lack critical thought and can't point out textbook bad storytelling for what it is. "I skipped a lot of MCU movies wherever I could out of convenience (e.g., I skipped Ant-Man and Ant-Man 2, Captain America: The First Avenger and The Incredible Hulk because they aren't essential to understanding Infinity War and Endgame)." with how influential the mcu has been on the entertainment industry as whole, a lot of media that's come out post 2010s has always kind of had the idea of just having massive appeal to audiences to tune in and just see things happen on screen. "moving from setpiece to setpiece" as you said in your video. sure, the mcu has always built up a plot, but you're not watching infinity war or endgame to see good story telling come to a close; you're there to see the heroes beat up thanos and other villains. you know the heroes are going to win in the end, so you don't really have much room for telling a good story. and story telling in a lot of action/drama oriented visual media have kind of adopted this sort of direction post mcu. it's probably a good thing actually that you skipped parts of the mcu. i personally didn't really watch much of the mcu given that i caught on way too early that they were just pumping out too much for me to catch up on at such a fast pace (especially during the covid phase 4 era of it, but also beforehand to a lesser extent). it's definitely numbed down the expectations the average consumer of media has for story telling. unfortunately, i fear part of it has also bled into the remake. they've made quite a lot of questionable changes even before the ending of the story. for example, sephiroth jumpscares you every 30 minutes in the game which is just completely jarring. you even get taken to the "edge of creation" at the end, which tries its hardest to emulate the feeling of cloud finally entering his head to kill sephiroth with an omnislash as he does in the northern crater, and this doesn't even make sense to include now with how cryptic sephiroth is through the entire game. i could go on, but the point is it seems the writers don't really care for the more traditional forms of story telling that the original was known for and instead are catering to "wowwwww! this scene looks so cool! more please more!" "A general rule when creating entertainment is the following: you've got the most hardcore fans no matter what; they'll still follow your franchise even if you have to drag them kicking and screaming the whole way. ... Don't feel as though you HAVE to love the 7R trilogy and pick up Rebirth simply because of all the time and cash you've already sunk into it. ... If you're not enjoying something, it's best to (at least be willing to) jump ship before even MORE of your time/cash is wasted." i appreciate the sentiment here for my own sanity. personally, i've mentioned already that i think of myself as an ff7 devotee, so i think by transitivity that makes me a hardcore fan. besides, i genuinely do like the remake for what it does right. sure it does a LOT of things wrong, namely the whole of chapter 18, but i do think that the good for the most part outweighs the bad in this game (to clarify, NOT ALL of the bad, just a good portion of it). at the very least i can say i appreciate some aspects of the remake which disallow me from truly dropping the game. that's kind of what i meant when i said i put in so much time and energy. i worded it poorly, my apologies, but i still do value the time and energy i've put in already and i do think it's been a positive so far. the trailer footage of rebirth and the portion of the demo i played so far also seem like something i'd have a good time with and can see things i enjoy from it. however, that doesn't mean that i don't have my limits. i've already told my friends that i'd drop the game if, with how they now have creative freedom to do whatever the jenovan hell they want, they decide to vigorously shake up pivotal scenes such as aerith's death i will drop the remake project and maybe even my entire liking to the ff7 subfranchise as a whole then and there. at that point i'd know for a fact the series is long gone from the glory days. instead catering to fanfiction tiers of "omg!!! aerith's alive!!! now cloud and her can make out!!!" THATS NOT WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT AND NEVER WILL BE. i personally really liked the venn diagram at the end of the video talking about sqex staff and how they fare with storytelling. it basically sums up what i want to say here. maybe i'm just a fool for putting blind faith in concept writers and not story tellers, but if they can actually make the payoff worth it i'll stay invested. "I've though about what else I could do with my channel, but life has been getting rather busy lately and I don't want to put myself through something so laborious again. If I ever do decide to make another video essay, it will be a long ways off (i.e., years from now), as this is solely a passion project and not something I'd want to make a career out of." do whatever content floats your boat whenever you want! i'll stick around! side note, the cosplay is a genius idea; promoting anonymity while simultaneously giving a more parasocial sense of human connection. i like it!
For me, I felt Remake made Aerith a character I actually wanted to see more of and live. Except for her saying “Shit!” once, she went from a character I cared nothing for in the original to someone I could see everyone falling for. And while it isn’t a main point of the video, I personally loved FF13 despite still having no idea what the actual story was. I saw the characters grow and change during their journey and didn’t think so much about who they were before they entered the story. But it does feel like nonsense that if I want to try and understand the story or world, I need to read hours of content the writers failed to just express to us while we played.
@@obsessive_hermit yeah, mentals are definitely better. Youre one of a handful of individuals whose insights I miss keeping up with, so really glad I saw Orion shouting you out so I could dive into this.
Holy shit after watching hours upon hours of video about how bad FF7 R story came out to be I finally can sum up my huge problem with it. I can understand if some elements of the story was going to be changed. If anything I expected changes as many original elements either wouldn't fly today or wouldn't make sense to be included with how games are made today. What I don't understand in all the wisdom these writers had to create something that would have been amazing even if the story followed the OG how the fuck did including timelines or time travel and even whispers be their brightest idea?! They could have done almost anything, but THIS? Honestly they could have changed things and not included the whispers and I would respect them way more but now they've opened Pandora's box and we can never go back. It will never be removed and like you I have no faith that they'll ever try to remedy it.
Theres 2 continuities for FF7. As per the wiki: 1. The compilation: Before Crisis, Crisis Core, Final Fantasy 7, On a Way to a Smile, Advent Children, and lastly Dirge of Cerberus. The story of these games directly refernce the prior works in its timeline hence canoncity. 2. Remake: Final Fantasy 7 Remake. Rebirth, and the untitled 3rd game. the two cannot overlap due to the blantant impossibilities in the the two timelines. Whispers did not exist in the comp, nor did Cloud knowing who Zack was in midgar, or him knowing that it was he who killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim, Deepground only showed up after meteorfall and the Reactor 0 sealed door was discovered, etc. etc. Thus i can safely say I dont care what square does in RE trilogy becuase these two timelines do not overlap, The OG and its sequels will remain viewed in a positive light decades after while the remake will be forgotten mostly by the virtue of bad storytelling.
When Tifa says "what will we find on the other side" and Aeris says "freedom. Boundless, terrifying freedom", I take that to mean once the developers make this change, they will be free from the shadow of the original game and all of its fans. A game they will never be able to repeat in greatness.
Yet here we go in Rebirth with them STILL sticking to the original format. This isn't so much a remake (no pun intended, this includes Rebirth as well), where it's more the same with just filler quests to give the illusion of something different
Welcome to the Toxic Positivity Culture of fandom where you must only say positive happy safe-space comments. Otherwise, you'll be labeled a 'purist', a 'hater' or a 'troll' and blocked for simply addressing critical story/character/theme breaking issues. - Got a problem with how FF7 Remake erased all interesting gray-moral moments (such as relieving all personal responsibility/accountability from Avalanche's actions and shifting it entirely on ShinRa's shoulders... or how Aerith entirely blames Sephiroth for everything that's 'wrong' in this world despite him being a product OF this materialistic Lifestream-dependent world)? Stop complaining, hater! Just play and consume and don't think too much. Why do you have to overcomplicate everything! - Got a problem with how Remake severely undermined the personal growth/journey each character undertook before finding the strength to fight for the Planet, all in exchange for a rushed unearned fight against Sephiroth? Pft, who cares! Themes are overrated! And OMG SEPHIROTH LOOKS AWESOME!!!! DOESN'T HE LOOK AWESOME??? HERE, HAVE MORE SEPHIROTH. WE NEED HIM TO APPEAR EVERY FIVE SECONDS AND ACT LIKE AN OBSESSED IDIOT INSTEAD OF A MYSTERIOUS TERRIFYING FORCE OF NATURE. - Got a problem with how boring /repetitive side missions were (the same issue that plagued Crisis Core) or how narrow-pathed the world is or how there was very limited things to do in it (in contrast to the original FF7 letting you interact with tons of NPCs and unlock extra scenes/skills by simply exploring that world)? Blegh, how dare you ask more of a triple AAA budget game, you entitled gamer! Besides, gamers are stupid. They can't be trusted to find this extra content on their own. So here, let me hold your hand and tell you EXACTLY what your next directive is and how to get there. - Got a problem with how the Remake downright claimed the original FF7 ending was the 'bad' ending and now it's up to Aerith and the gang to 'make it better' (translation: I want the fanfic Disney good ending where no sacrifices need to be made and my husbando/waifu doesn't have to undergo some painful character moments)? Well, you're just mad because you're a Purist! Stop complaining so much. Just enjoy and consume. - Got a problem with those Kingdom-Hearts Shadows being inconsistent and intervening only during Important-Character-Plot-Armor moments (Barrett not dying) but not with lesser second-rate characters (such as Biggs and Wedge living)? Who cares! You haven't played the other games yet, don't judge yet! And Maxmillion is already hard at work fixing all the fuckups and inconsistencies on behalf of the Remake writers, so there! Didn't you know fandom is there to do the writers' job for them? Duh! Reality is, not all Remakes are made equal. And just because something is 'changed' doesn't make it automatically 'better'. There is a reason why RoboCop's reboot didn't hit hard. Remakes typically work when they introduce new fresh elements while still maintaining the core structure and mood/themes of the original. FF7 Remake felt like a superficial Time Travel AU fanfic mess. The characters themselves were great. Visuals look amazing. Some of the original tracks got a much-loved makeover (minus Sephiroth's own track, which got TOO bombastic, TOO overblown, and TOO overcomplicated for its own good). The world looks amazing. But all of those things are just the surface. The real meat of FF7 had always been their complicated journey toward redemption. Each character all had holes to fill within themselves. Each character also realized they couldn't do this on their own. It gave greater meaning and dimension to their fight against Sephiroth. Cloud and the gang all had to 'complete' themselves first, as well as move forward after suffering a personal great loss, before finding the resolve they needed to fight. In this sense, they were fighting 'themselves' when they took on Sephiroth. FF7 is a classic because it wasn't just this fantasy game. It was about teaching us how to move forward, whether it was moving forward from a death of a loved one, moving forward from a dream that was never realized, moving forward from trauma... It's baffling that pixelated characters and badly translated bits still managed more of the human experience than what the Remake gave us. Remake undermined everything by turning it into a Normua-Kingdom Hearts time-paradox story. 'Fate' plots have a nasty habit of removing character agency (thereby, undermining their hardship/difficult choices). Thus, when bad things happen it no longer feels visceral and powerful but inevitable instead. Worst, in 'time paradox' stories, you waste so much time trying to 'subvert expectations' than telling a story with a natural flow and rhythm. Of course, the greatest offense Remake committed was by downright claiming the original ending was the 'bad' ending. I rolled my eyes and hated Aerith so much during the last chapters. It sucked because, up until that point, I absolutely loved her. However, I couldn't stand the explicit claims being made when she told everyone that the visions they were seeing was what would happen 'if they failed'. Like, bitch, you're essentially saying the hard road they took and sacrifices made to save the planet was a 'failure'. Exactly what is 'success' in your eyes? That NO sacrifices need to be made? Everyone gets to live happily ever after and Sephiroth dies? A Disney cookie-cutter finale? This was the other big issue the Remake introduced once they decided to clearly draw the line between who was the 'good guy' and who was the 'bad guy'. The beauty of the original FF7 rested in its morally gray ambiguity. The Planet Weapons themselves destroyed without prejudice: you mess with the planet and your ass is toast, regardless if you're fighting Sephiroth. What a lotta Remake apologists fail to realize is the Planet was ALREADY SCREWED - regardless of Sephiroth being there or not. Hell, Crisis Core's remake drives home this point with plenty of environmentalist activists rightfully pointing the finger at ShinRa and telling Zack they're doomed. Ironically, it took a force of nature (Sephiroth) to advertently change this fate. Through HIS actions, the true culprit behind the Planet's deterioration got stabbed to death, Shin-Ra collapsed with Meteor, and a chain of events that led to Cloud & party saving the Planet was set into motion. It's important to note, the Planet in the original game acted as a neutral entity (neither benevolent nor malevolent). It didn't pick any sides and willingly accepted whatever fate befell on it, even in its suffering. It was only through Aerith's sacrifice, along with Cloud and his party's determination, that the Planet finally intervened. The ending with the stream covering the Planet still makes me cry. It wasn't because everyone was saved, but because all the hard work Aerith and Cloud and everyone did resulted in this. Aerith, Cloud and everyone PROVED to the Planet, through their selfless actions, that the human world WAS worth saving. They EARNED their salvation. Seeing the Planet act impartial up to this point but finally RESPOND made it an extra emotional experience for me. Unfortunately, a sacrifice was still needed to answer for the sins of humankind. Someone had to pay the debt and that 'someone' was unfortunately Aerith. That's why Remake Aerith's words at the end of Remake pissed me off so much. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to avoid the painful road ahead, despite that painful road being a direct consequence for everyone's negligence and ignorance. She wants to blame Sephiroth for 'everything wrong' in this Planet, when in reality, he is a PRODUCT of this world's sins. Him rising from the ashes and 'refusing to be a memory' is karma for all the evil humankind did to itself. There wouldn't be a Jenova Project in the first place if there weren't greedy ass humans wanting more mako. But here, too, the Remake writers REFUSE to acknowledge this morally gray area. They NEED Sephiroth to be the big baddie, so they have Aerith explicitly tell everyone that the Planet recognizes him as the true evil one. I realize now most of my grievances comes down to the dip in writing quality over the decades - not just in FF7 but everywhere else too. The generation of Participation Trophy Winners truly gave rise to writers who... can't write complex things anymore. Nor can they trust their audience to think for themselves. They stick to safe and predictable story elements and constantly hold our hand, explicitly pointing to who the 'bad guys' and 'good guys' while also expecting us not to ask too many questions. That's what it felt like playing Remake.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here except your opinion on OWA Rebirth, i like how chaotic it is and i find it interesting but it's far from my favorite version of the song(Advent Children OWA is my favorite song of all time and i say that as someone that hear a lot of music from many different genres but that song just hits everything right for me and Sephiroth is my favorite character so it also mixes up), and well, the FF7 Rebirth version of OWA was kind of better and closer to the original one. Well, the way i see FF7R is that if it was an original story i'd not have many issues with it, it's a nice JRPG story with amazing characters and a charismatic villain, great gameplay, music and etc. But as a fan of the Original game that loves its themes and etc. I feel extremely dissapointed at how Remake dumbs down most of what made the original story deep in order to make it more palatable to the modern trends alongside the writting style that Nomura and the rest of the team involved adopted with years(which is inferior to what they did in the past and you can see that at how FF7R is the only highly acclaimed thing they did in the last years and what lead to these praises it's the things they kept from the original story and what people criticize it's what they decided to "subvert"). Your comment pretty much already said everything but i'd also like to add how much they fucked up Sephiroth on it, even more on Rebirth. I feel like Square took the "Sephiroth stalking Cloud" memes so seriously that they made it his whole character to the point of it looking like he is his crazy yandere ex instead of a force of nature that fucks up Cloud's mind to achieve his higher goal, i like the whole "Sephiroth is a ghost haunting Cloud even afther his death" thing from AC, in fact it's one of the reasons why i like the character so much, even more considering the things you mentioned like how Sephiroth is a consequence from humanity's greed to begin with, but in Remake he speaks and acts like your average Organization XIII member and the creepy ex thing in detriment of his original mysterious villain thing which made him so iconic, his presentation on Remake is way too overplayed and on Rebirth they made these things even worse, especially on the ending where he was clearly not holding back like on Remake, so Cloud and Aerith kick his ass and he flies away, like man, some of what made Sephiroth great was how he always felt stronger and beyond you on the OG now he's just an average edgy villain that afther losing for the second time he will appear with a stronger form on Part 3 but the others will kick his ass again, at this rate he's barely special as he was before, he's just a cool villain now... In the end i think that FF7R while it does a lot of things better regarding the characters and most of it, whatever it has to adress the more complex, subjective and deep themes/things from the original game it dumbs down to the level of your average JRPG/Shounen-Anime/Comic-Book level or just does it inferior than the original(NOT ALWAYS, but the fact that they did it in most of the most important parts of the original story like Aerith's death...), and again, i'd not be bothered by it half as much if it wasn't a Remake from the OG FF7, and honestly it's really sad how modern media struggles with similiar or way worse stuff than this in general nowadays.
I don’t think the gray moral standing of avalanche is really that changed? They still think the damage done was theirs, they just don’t know it isn’t. They sulk and wonder a lot, and Tifa in particular sulks over it ALL the time. Aerith doesn’t blames everything on Sephiroth and, if anything, a lot of that blame is directed to Hojo.
And Sephiroth appearing all the time is clearly an indication of the time traveling/multiverse shenanigans. His place in the story remains somewhat similar, just more present from the beginning. The original FF7 has Sephiroth talking, controlling, and stalking Cloud from the beginning but Cloud isn’t that far from a black coated guy. The difference really is that Sephiroth is more obsessive about it, and in return so is Cloud, in areas of the game in which Sephiroth is never mentioned. You can dislike it but I think you’re taking credit away from it
Subbed, and I fully agree. This was an amazingly eloquent critique! I was actually fairly lenient on Remake originally just because I was so tired of Square being... awful. Remake at least felt like the characters had personalities, which was refreshing after... well, everything post X practically. (I started with the series as a little kid in 1991 with FF4, so I was there before, during, and after the "golden age"). I've been fighting people on the Internet since my high school days (Hi, Chrono Cross, you overdramatic overdressed vapid skin-walker of a game!), and I suppose when Remake came out, I was tired. It was also Covid time and I was going through a mental health crisis, so I let a lot about the ending slide that I normally would have NEVER done. It was silly, but I opened my heart hoping I wouldn't be burned again. Then... Rebirth burned me. Hard. I beat it last week and I've been trying to process how in the world modern SE could botch so completely one of the most poignant scenes in all of gaming. All of the faith they had built up by actually writing the characters as people and not weird pod people was lost in an instant. I'm not sure if I have it in me to play the 3rd game.
I'm really sorry for what you've had to go through. Your experience with Rebirth's ending mirrors how I felt after beating Remake's. Almost everything that Toriyama, Nomura, Nojima and Kitase have written since FFX has been seriously flawed, yet I was optimistic about Remake because it was based on an existing story. I didn't think they could possibly fuck it up. And yet they did anyway. It's interesting that you mentioned Chrono Cross. I wasn't able to thoroughly detail this in the video, but FF7 Remake and Rebirth both feel as though the developers thoughtlessly took the worst, most-hated story elements from Chrono Cross, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and forced them into FF7. I knew Rebirth's ending would be a disaster from the moment we learned the game would end at the Forgotten City, because tone-wise, it's an AWFUL place to put an interdimensional boss rush (it's like installing roulette wheels, slot machines and poker tables in a church during a funeral service). Tonally, it's also a terrible place to put a confusing, mystery box-style cliffhanger because the scene is meant to be tragic and devastating, but devastation and confusion are INCOMPATIBLE EMOTIONS. In order to be emotionally devastated/surprised by something, the audience needs to have enough context to UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT HAPPENS. If you just refuse to answer what is going on in the first place, the audience will not feel devastated because they'll be too busy scrambling to put the pieces all together. You'll often hear defenders say that the point of Rebirth's ending was to play up Cloud's insanity/denial even more, supposedly because they're building up to a new plot twist when the Lifestream scene happens in Part 3. (E.g., that the ambiguity of Aerith's "death" is meant to aggravate Cloud's fractured psyche and create intrigue, which will ostensibly payoff when he and Tifa fall into the Lifetstream in Part 3 and finally learn the truth of what is going on with him, Aerith, Zack and the multiverse.) RUclipsr Sub_TXT explained this in his video on why FF7R is spoiling the original game's twists, and the short of it is that: the developers want to recreate the surprise twist in the lifestream scene, but because that twist is now common knolwedge, they have to go even further this time--Cloud's "unreliable narrator" schtick won't work anymore, so they're now making THE WORLD OF GAIA ITSELF unreliable--by adding multiverses/time-travel and conflating them with Cloud's hallucinations, they are making THE ENTIRE WORLD unreliable--it's impossible to tell what can or cannot happen in the world of Gaia, and thus, it's impossible to predict where the story will go: we can't trust anything we're seeing on-screen because they could just be alternate universes; we don't know what truly matters because the lore/rules of the world are in a persistent state of ambiguity/flux--everything may be subject to change in Part 3. Basically, the writers are making up the rules for how the time-travel/multiverse/lifestream stuff works as they go along; playing it by ear and changing the rules depending on how close the theory-crafters get to figuring it out ahead of time. Again, this is just a theory, but if it's true, then therein lies the problem: Remake and Rebirth are sacrificing the emotional weight and tension of the original game's story, just for the sake of artificially propping up a new version of the Lifestream twist. The problem with this "unreliable world" narrative is that it makes it impossible to tell what MATTERS from what DOESN'T. You can't get invested in the overarching conflict if you don't know what the rules are; you can't tell what's even at stake when there's no clear indication of what is/is not possible in the story's world. You can't tell a riveting story about "saving the planet from destruction" when the planet ITSELF is an omnipotent cop-out which can do ANYTHING the writers arbitrarily need it to, with no warning; you can't feel devastated by a character's death when, for all you know, timeline fuckery could bring them back from the dead, etc. Simply put: the writers are sacrificing SO MUCH which made the original game so emotionally intense--the momentum, the lore, the magic system, the pacing, the weight of Aerith's death, and (above all) THE CONFLICT--JUST so that they can recreate the shock factor of the Lifestream scene. The developers are so OBSESSED with trying to make the new Lifestream scene impossible to predict, that they are just refusing to TELL us anything about how the world of Gaia now operates (e.g., "we can't explain how the timeline fuckery works, or the theory-crafters will figure the story out before Part 3 releases.") That, I think, is the problem with the 7R trilogy: we fans loved the original game mainly because of how emotionally intense and impactful it was, and yet the developers are sacrificing most of that emotional weight, merely to recreate the shock factor of JUST ONE, SINGLE PART of the story. Personally, when it comes to what I look for in story-telling, being surprised is the least of my concerns. The thing I value most in storytelling (and which I loved most about the OG) is CONFLICT. Conflict is the soul of storytelling; it's the only reason why ANYTHING that happens in a given story is emotionally engaging. I would rather have a story which is emotionally intense but predictable, than a story which is unpredictable but has no dramatic weight or tension. I want to be on the edge of my seat; immersed in the world; rooting for the characters; afraid of the villain; sympathizing with the characters who are suffering; I want to feel catharsis; satisfied when the heroes DO finally prevail despite all odds being stacked against them (even if I already know or can tell where the story is headed). That is not possible when the writers are flat-out refusing to tell me what (if anything) even MATTERS in the story.
This (along with the multiverse hokum) is what finally led me to conclude that the 7R trilogy will never be for me, and why I will never play Rebirth or Part 3. If it's any consolation, lately I've been replaying the original game with mods installed, including: New Threat 2.0 (combat only), ReMusic, Ninostyle character models, environmental overhauls, AI-enhanced FMVs and backgrounds, Project Edge backgrounds, new sound effects, UI changes, Shinra Archeology's retranslation, some gameplay tweaks and more. It's REALLY damn good, and I can't wait to see what else the modders do as time goes on. Yes, it's sad that fans like you and I will never get a truly faithful adaptation of the original game's story with the 7R trilogy's tech. and production budget, but I think we should take what we can get. I really hope that one day, someone can take FMVs and voice acting from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once said trilogy is finished).
oh come on, chrono cross wasnt that bad. i really enjoyed playing it back in the day, hunting down all the secret characters and their lore was fun. At least it wasn't trying to pretend to be a sequel or remake of chrono trigger. it was its own thing, with little connection to chrono trigger.
@@tylerdurden7965 That's fair. The three biggest issues with Chrono Cross are 1) the second half of the game is a MASSIVE exposition dump with too many new and rushed plot devices, 2) it kills off a few characters from CT off-screen for seemingly no reason other than shock value, and 3) the part at the end where the timelines "merge together" is not sufficiently explained. How can alternate universes with their own mutually exclusive histories and events merge together? Was one universe destroyed but certain characters and events were physically transported over to the "main universe"? Beyond those issues however, I agree with you. I can appreciate the fact that Chrono Cross wasn't trying to be a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger; it's detached enough that it doesn't take away from the legacy of CT; fans of CT can easily ignore most of CC's problems and enjoy the game as its own thing. Whereas FF7R feels like it's overshadowing/undermining the OG.
@@obsessive_hermit man, I haven't played chrono cross in so long... I can't even remember much about the plot anymore lol. I do remember enjoying it back when I was young though, I remember there being a few chrono trigger easter eggs that were fun to find too.
Very similar experience, Remake to me was a nice blockbuster experience during the height of COVID that was a welcome relief from the lockdowns and confusion of the early pandemic. I was way too optimistic about the ending of Remake, thought hey maybe they can run with these new ideas, only to face the slow burn of disappointment as Rebirth lurched from one misguided set piece to another, finally finishing with a convoluted messy bang with the multiverse shenanigans at the end. There's one thing of not wanting to retread old ground as a creative, but you still have to adhere to basic storytelling beats, pacing and payoffs which none of Rebirth's key moments did for me. Either they were overstuffed with too much going on (Aerith lying dead on the floor whilst a bunch of whispers floated around aimlessly was the pinnacle of this), introduced too many concepts too late (I counted at least 4 separate realities in the last act alone) or just plain old didn't allow us to sit with the emotion due to the direction of the cutscenes (the car chase after Dyne's fight). Unfortunately I don't think the current Square creative team have that within them to retell anything interestingly and have ended up in a weird feedback loop between them as to what they think actually works for the game, which apparently is just mystery box BS.
They made a 60 hour game focused only on Midgar, yet they only showed the exact same sectors that thry had in the original game in which that same midgar section took 3 to 5 hours. Thats so crazy to me.
Really enjoy this essay. You are certainly very thoughtful in your approach, and I appreciate that you have ingested a great deal of the other content that has been produced by your peers and woven it into your own take. I see in other comments that you've decided not to play Rebirth, but I really hope you do, and that you produce another 3+ hour breakdown of it that can not only break down Rebirth itself but recontextualize some of this video as well (and by the same token, Part 3 will be necessary in order to fully contextualize much of Rebirth).
Thanks for the positive feedback :) I'm sure many would like to hear my thoughts on Rebirth and Part 3, but I've honestly lost passion for the FF7R trilogy now. Part of the reason why I made this video was to provide solace to those who were as disappointed as I was, and also as a means of coming to terms with my grief (this is called "Writing Therapy"). It seems to have worked for me, though mainly because I just don't care much about this series anymore. I have absolutely ZERO interest in an "FFVII Multiverse," and yet, that's the route they're going with this. This video alone took me 3 years and thousands of hours to make, and while I have found means of expediating the process, I don't want to do another project of this scale unless it's a subject which I am deeply passionate about. Now that I have overcome the grief which FF7R caused me, I feel almost nothing but APATHY towards the FF7R trilogy, and I really don't think there's anything Square Enix can possibly do to convince me that Part 2 and 3 will be a worthwhile way to spend my time (let alone making a 3-hour video essay critiquing it). The realization which I have sadly come to is: the things which I loved most about the original FFVII have not been (and are not going to be) retained in this trilogy. What I love about FFVII (and about storytelling, more generally) has been irreparably undermined by all these metatextual elements and bad superhero comic book tropes which they're adding to the 7R project. It's gotten to the point where, on Twitter, I have unfollowed a large number of accounts and blocked a large number of terms relating to FFVII (e.g., Cloti, Clerith, Aerith, Tifa, Sephiroth, Costa del Sol, Junon, Gold Saucer, Terrier timeline, Beagle timeline, etc.), because I honestly just don't want to see them anymore (not very much, anyway). And my home page has been better off for it. So I think I'll just stick to the OG with mods. If nothing else, I would LOVE to see the modders take music and voice lines from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once the trilogy is finished, that is). If any other FF7 content creators invite me onto a podcast or something, I will happily explain my thoughts on FFVII in more detail - what I loved about the OG and what has been lost in Remake and Rebirth. But until/unless that happens, I think it's time for me to move on. I recently played Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice and absolutely LOVED it, and I finally just started Bioshock.
You and my son had the same reaction to the ending of Remake, which is the opposite of mine. A little background. Final Fantasy 7 is my favorite game ever. I was waiting in line for the day it released. The store where I preordered the game was the highest selling store in the Bay Area California so I believe Sony gave everyone waiting in line a random FF7 figure…I got Aeris. My son and I have played the original over 100 times. He was 2 when the game came out and the original is also his favorite game of all time. I remember how excited I was when square finally announced they were working on the remake. But my excitement quickly vanished when they announced it would be divided into several parts. I thought that square was a greedy company trying to squeeze all the money they could from fans and I also feared that they could screw up in any of the parts and worst that it would take so long that I would be playing the game on different system generations. It seems I’ll be right on all 3. Even though I’m a big FF7 fan I decided not to buy the game, but I got it as a birthday present. I played the game and I wasn’t having fun. The game looked amazing, the character models were awesome and the music was great. But the quests were boring/dull, the world felt confined and I hated how story elements were changed. Like Cloud seeing Sephiroth at random times…I thought to myself why are we seeing this so early? I also didn’t understand how Aeris knew so much, it made no sense to me. I felt Tifa didn’t feel as good of character because Jessie felt more fun than Tifa…except for her over the top Cloud infatuation. I hated the whispers I didn’t understand the need for these things to be in the game. I specially hated how sometimes their actions didn’t make sense. I remember just wanting to finish the game just to see if there was a reason for all the crap that was happening. Don’t get me wrong there were some cool parts but overall I was just not having fun. I remembered how happy I was when I finished the game and saw the ending. The son that also loves FF7 didn’t have any reservations about getting the game, he actually got the limited edition. My son and I talked about how we felt about the game and the ending. He enjoyed the game, hated Jessie and was ready to give it a high score until the end. He felt the ending ruined everything. Zack is one of his favorite characters and he wasn’t happy that they changed his fate and that Remake ending hurt not only the original but also crisis core. I told him that for me it felt like a chore playing the game, how bad the padding was, how dumb some puzzles were…like the sun lights puzzle. I haven’t replayed Remake because I can’t see myself doing that puzzle again. The reason I like the ending and this is what I told my son. This Final Fantasy 7 is not my Final Fantasy. This one is some kind of multiverse kinda crap. Is easy to get to that conclusion, if you have played the original and seen advent children. Remake multiverse somehow knows or can see what happens in the original and at the same time is also connecting with part of the movie. Like Sephiroth fight, some of the fighting is taken from Advent Children. And finally seeing Zack alive is just like the final thing that proves this was some multiverse crap. Personally I hate that SquareEnix lie to me. The promise a remake and this is not it. I have no problem if the wanted to make something else, but they could had been more forthcoming and honest about it. The could had just called it FF7 v.2 and I would have been fine because I would have been expecting something different and not a remake like I always wanted. Besides Remake makes it hard to take Rebirth seriously. I decided not to get Rebirth but my son did even though he doesn’t have a PS5. Like I said is hard to take Rebirth serious when I already know who’s Sephiroth, I had no problem dealing with his mind games, not only did I already defeated the whispers god thing, but I also defeated Sephiroth. How can they expect me to feel threatened by the Turks? Or the dumb swamp snake? Or even Sephiroth…that’s the biggest problem with Remake. We already faced worst things. I already wrote 2 much. Sorry to anyone that read all of this.
I felt the same about the story, but honestly I'd have bought Rebirth to see where they went if they improved the gameplay. All the padding and slow paced moments drove me insane (took me 3 attempts to actually push through the tedium). But it looks like they just doubled down on the padding. So I've checked out videos of Rebirth instead and I'm so happy I didn't pay money for that swill. They could have stuck to the plot or gone wild. They've tried both and succeeded at neither.
Having to continually pause the video to read some of your dissertation-length footnotes was exhausting enough that my eyes just began glazing over... lmao
I never played FFXIII-2, but that scene around the 1 hour and 45 minutes mark had the villain say chaos so many times in succession I almost thought he was Jack Garland. THE CHAOS WAS SO THICK I COULD SMELL IT!
Another big problem of destroying the destiny of fate is it was completely pointless. Reverse the still following along the original game with subtle changes of scenes in areas. You still go to the golden salsa you still busy iconic places at the original game followed nothing changed for the most part
Dyne’s death was literally my only gauge of this game….. When they said Gold Saucer, I thought DYNE…. And they fucked it up, so…. Aeris death will not happen properly, so FUCK ENIX!!!!!
Bro, amazing video. Took me about 3 sessions to finish it but damn, thats some good work you did there. Thank you. Subbed. I hope you refrain from your decision to wait 5 years to comeback. I'm really looking forward for your next essay.
Every word you said is exactly what i had in mind, even from the very first remake i already have no trust in a faithful story telling from SE. I lost my trust in this series from FFXIII
Great video with many fair points! I’m also one who was okay with changes,but not BAD changes. like most of the new additions they take away from the story unfortunately such as multiverse/time travel mumbo jumbo (which is really played out by now btw), everybody lives, and spoiling future plot points just ruins the whole point of Ff vii. so I will watch rebirth cutscenes on RUclips to see how much they butchered the story before I buy the next part 😂 cus I’m not spending money on a bad story which is why I play these games. I’m curious like most of us which is why I’m still somewhat invested, but I think they wrote themselves into a corner with the random baffling ending so I will be surprised if they can salvage that mess
I understand not wanting to spend a full 70 dollars, but there is still merit to experience an art piece the way it is intended to be experienced. Watching Dune on an airplane with a baby crying next to you and only one ear bud working probably isn't the intended experience. Just don't write off an artistic work when you haven't had the full intended experience is all I'm saying.
@@Radriar___9946nope not spending full price on a bad story so I’m still doing the RUclips cutscenes for free to see how much of a train wreck it is 😂 but if it’s a good story I want to see through I will support the developers and buy a copy simple. I don’t owe square enix anything 😂 with squares history the last 20 or so years of bad stories (including the new additions to vii remake) it’s their turn to woo me the customer to make a good product I want to buy. In a STORY driven game like the final fantasy franchise if the story isn’t good then there isn’t much of a point
@@nexusstep I get it man it’s your money and games are expensive. It seems you’ve already made up your mind on the game being bad. All I’m saying is playing a game is different than watching a game.
@@Radriar___9946oh trust me I know I prefer playing the game as supposed to just watching it 100% and I’m not set on it being bad I’m actually hoping it’s good since I love this franchise and want the best for it but honestly the new additions so far are just dog water bro, no one can look me dead serious in the eyes and tell me this new story is better than the old one…I’m sorry they are in the same train of pointless/bad additions that are super invasive to the overall story along the same lines with genesis and dirge of Cerberus etc 😂 so I’m welcome to be proven wrong if they turn it around and stop the cringe multiverse/time travel mumbo jumbo but my hopes aren’t super high. I can spend my money on instead on stories that are actually good like persona series for example lol
@@nexusstep yeah remake FOR SURE has problems, but it also does things better than the original too. The plate fall scene was way better in the original, but wallmarket was better in Remake. You kinda just have to take the good with the bad. As far as the new story stuff goes I really don’t like that Zack is alive and if he meets up with the party I think that would be a disaster, but I think people have been to quick to make up their minds when we haven’t even seen the payoff for a lot of these new story beats. You have every right to be skeptical, but the developers (for me personally l) seem to have a deep understanding of what makes FF7 special so I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for know. Much love brother!
I must say, despite me personally enjoying the ending on my first playthrough for my own reasons, I must say this video was incredibly well made, respectful, brought up alot of interesting/good points and was highly thought provoking for how I see the remakes story. It didnt instantly change my mind but it definitely makes me want to replay the game to really see how I'd feel about the story now as a fan of final fantasy 7 in general. Regardless of whether my thoughts remain or change I still have to give you credit for such a well done analysis, you deserve much more attention and if you continue making videos I'm definitely going to come back to see what you do next. Great work man
Thank you! It'll be a LONG time before I get around to making another vid, cause this channel is solely a passion project and I have a rather busy life. But thanks for the sub!
@@obsessive_hermit Hey lol, so i been wanting to try this recipe for awhile now. But im confused about the measurements, can you explain the recipe in terms of ounces? 🙏
@@tylerdurden7965To make approx. 3 cups worth of Velvet Hammers, you need 1.5 oz. of Tia Maria, Cointreau, Creme de Cacao and Grand Marnier Liqueur (that's 1.5 oz. of EACH; totaling up to 6 oz. combined). Then you need 3 oz. of the Heavy Cream. Mix well in a drink mixer with about 3 ice cubes.
NEVER play Rebirth then... It taints the most IMPORTANT scene of OG FF7 and left me in total disbelieve It made me almost *RAGE* Ps. Great Video with strong points, maybe a bit too long though for a Remake Series that is not Worth our Time
The strangest argument (I think it was an argument) was "I hated OG FF VII! The remake was better!" Which if that's the case, why play a remake of *a game you hate?* The paint and name of Final Fantasy VII must mean something.
They want the clout and popularity of having experienced videogame history without actually engaging with that history. Games are prestigious experiences now. It's mind blowing.
The people who say this did not get into FFVII because of the original game. They invariably got into FFVII through the Compilation spinoffs, fanfiction, or fan-made music videos on RUclips. They don't care for the original game because the Compilation appeals to people for very different reasons than the OG did. E.g., Playing Crisis Core first + fanfiction is the reason why some people prefer Zack over Cloud and wish the former was the hero of the OG's story.
47:53 why couldn't sephiroth just destroy the arbiters of fate instead of tricking the party to fight it? lol, makes no sense, party beats sephiroth in the end of game before fighting this boss right? sephiroth would be as strong enough to beat the whispers
This video has been very well researched and I appreciate the timeline of events, including debunking alot of talking points FF7R fans use. I share your sentiments and like many, I really wanted to enjoy the remake, but the bad is so bad and the timeline splitting is so jarring that I can't enjoy the nosltagic elements and even the new elements because the whispers are always lurking beyond the surface.
You know what I loved about the first 10 Final Fantasy games?? They all had simple themes to them that made them work. FF 1 was about heroism FF 2 was about rebellion FF 3 was about magic FF 4 was about war FF 5 was about fate FF 6 was about hope FF 7 was about life FF 8 was about time FF 9 was about death FF X was about dreams FF XII was about politics FF XV was about brotherhood/commitment I did like FF XII and FF XV too by the way All of them made people easily connect with them.
I don't think it's necessarily a matter of the themes being simple. I actually disagree on your assessment of what the themes for each of those games are. Rather: it's about being HUMAN-RELATABLE - If you want people to enjoy your story, the themes have to be "evolutionarily familiar" (this is a term used by some evolutionary psychologists). For example, I'd argue that FFV isn't so much about "fate" as it is about legacy: the desire to pass on one's values and wisdom and create a better world for the next generation. This is something which most people (especially older people) can relate to, because passing wisdom onto our children and trying to change the world for the better is a HUGE motivator of human beliefs and behaviour (see: "Terror Management Theory"). Likewise, FFVI is about love and all its forms, be they familial, romantic, or friendly; that to love and be loved is what makes life worth living. Contrast that with Kefka; how he's a sociopathic nihilistic with no one to love or be loved by. Again, as social beings, this is a theme we - as humans - can relate to. FFVII is about the immaterial value of life: the conflict between those who believe that life has a special/sacred value vs. soulless materialists who believe that everything should be nitpicked for personal gain (at the expense of our long-term well-being and sense of purpose in life). This is seen most obviously in Avalanche vs Shinra, but it's also seen in the Planet/Aerith vs JENOVA, Cloud gaining friends and humility while Sephiroth becomes more of a friendless monster with a god complex, etc. (As an added bonus: JENOVA is an alien invader, which is also relatable to us because invasion by outsiders was an ever-looming threat for most peoples throughout human history). FFX is about how the conflict between personal desires and societal obligations; how we each have both roles/duties to be fulfilled, but should also question certain traditions which may be harmful or built on lies. Again, human beings evolved for religion and group cooperation, but we also have our own dreams and interests which we want to fulfill: we need to find balance between the two. FFXV is about the rite of passage from boyhood to manhood (childhood to adulthood), and the burden that it entails. Fortunately however, you don't have to go it alone (because your friends are there, maturing alongside you). These are all themes which we can relate to at a deep, evolutionary level. Altering the spacetime continuum and trying to stop someone from trying to merge infinite alternate universes together IS NOT. Yes, you can understand such concepts at an INTELLECTUAL level, but they fall emotionally flat because they're not evolutionarily familiar to us. You understand the words being said, but you don't FEEL much (if anything). This is why the best stories which involve fate, time-travel and alternate universes DO NOT FOCUS on the quantum mechanics or astrophysics-side of the issues. Back to the Future, as I said in the video, is not ABOUT time-travel: it's about a teenage boy who gets lost in an alien environment and desperately wants to get back home, but he only has ONE chance to do so, as well as get has parents back together so that he doesn't cease to exist (which is tantamount to death, as far as we can understand nonexistence). These are themes which we can relate to, and the question of "What were my parents like when they were my age?" is a question which we all ponder at some point - Marty gets to see them firsthand (and he helps them to be better people in the process). Everything, Everywhere, All at Once is about existentialism: finding meaning in life even when "cursed with knowledge" - Jobu Tupaki feels that life is meaningless because the multiverse strips all life of unique value; Evelyn learns that the best way to live/cope with this is by focusing mainly on YOUR OWN WORLD/UNIVERSE; accepting what you have and being a better person to those around you, rather than wishing that everything was completely different and better-suited to YOU.
@@obsessive_hermit Interesting 🤔 I really like your assessment and how you explained your point of view with how you see every Final Fantasy game. That’s what I love about crossing paths with other Final Fantasy fans, you gain some more knowledge from them, pass knowledge onto them from yourself, learn more things together through theorizing, and just telling each other your favorite parts of whichever FF game. I been a fan of the series since the 1990’s, way back when I first played Final Fantasy II on SNES which is really FF IV, and then I found & bought Final Fantasy III which is really FF VI and I fell in love with the entire franchise from there, and it was really FF VI that did it for me. I still have both physical SNES copies too, and to this day Final Fantasy VI is my favorite video game of all time, my number 1, and yes I have played a crap ton of video games since childhood to now in my 40 years on this planet. One reason why I always say that the main theme of FF VI was HOPE is because of many factors throughout the game. The empire being an oppressive force beating down everyone on the planet into submission with their power, yet a few people put together the returners rebellion & had just a small number of members in it, yet Banon, Edgar and others had HOPE that they would win the day in the war against the empire. Then every character had their chance in the story where HOPE played a major part, Terra believing she could be accepted by regular human people to be an ally to them, and later talking care of orphaned children and giving them some type of hope for their future in a bleak world where they lost their parents & all adults in their lives. Cyan hoping that one day he would have revenge against Kefka and the empire for what they did to his wife and child and his kingdom. Edgar hoping that he would be a great King to his people in Figaro, as well as a good member of the Returners. I could go on with the rest of them including Locke my favorite character lol 😆 Hoping that he could keep his promise to Rachel and then Celes. Then the main story of the world of ruin after Kefka changes everything, after that, everything seems hopeless and Celes even does the unthinkable sadly, yet something keeps her from truly ending, & that one Seagull with Locke’s bandana on it gives her HOPE, hope to get up and go out into that new hopeless torn up world & search for Locke and the rest of her friends, and when she finds them one by one, her hope grows more and more to the point to where she and everyone else feel that they can challenge Kefka who was very OP in the story at that point in time and ruled over the new destroyed world. Kefka even says this Hope, Dreams, Love, where do they all come from and where do they go?? I will destroy them all!! I can also agree with you when you see LOVE as the main theme of FF VI because there is a lot of characters in the game motivated by LOVE, and it is one of the main things that Kefka wanted to destroy, along with HOPE & DREAMS. A lot of people that I talked to who are fans of FF VI and other FF games have interpreted them their own way & found their own meaning in them, and their are some that surely agree with us too. Although I will admit, I still struggled from time to time to find & place a good theme on FF X, I ended up going with dreams because a majority of the game is about them being used and experienced ala Zanarkand/Tidus, the Faith. Each FF game sure is an experience though, that’s for sure.
Just leaving a comment on this video to show support for everything you've said. Time travel trope needs to die in storytelling and they really dropped the ball with what could have been one of the greatest remake trilogies of all time. Instead, they just went "HERE'S WHY TIME TRAVEL MAKES SENSE GUYS. YOU LIKE IT RIGHT?" RIP FF7 remake trilogy. You done effed it up. FF7 Rebirth only proved what this video talked about right even further, cementing the second an add-on to the failure.
Time-travel and multiverses are fine if the franchise in question is established to have them from the very beginning (e.g., they've been pervasive in superhero comic books for decades, and Everything Everywhere All at Once was upfront about being a multiverse story). They only tend to become a problem when they're ADDED to a franchise which has already been running for a long time without them, because when that happens, it's a sign that the writer is contriving a way out of a corner they've written themselves into (e.g., "we fucked up the series' continuity, so we'll just use alternate universes to 'fix' (i.e., handwave) every continuity error."). But that's the writing equivalent of trying to fill in a bunch of small holes in your garden using the dirt that you'd get from digging up a much bigger, deeper hole right in the center of it. USEFUL TIP FOR FICTION WRITERS: if you have been written into a corner and you feel that a multiverse/time-travel is THE ONLY WAY OUT, you have ALREADY lost. Glad you enjoyed the video! And yeah, Rebirth has only made things worse, so I won't be buying it. There are other, better ways to spend my time.
"Everybody knows who Sephiroth is" - it no freaking f*kin excuse to show him every 20 minutes and say his name every 5! And it comes from man who KNOWS about story of original
If they really needed to show him off it would have been enough to have a short glimpse of him once per game. Just give us a few short flashes of what happened in the Shinra building in the first game, have the playable flashback portion in the second game like it is now, and have sephiroth mess a bit with clouds head at the start of part 3 until the climax. Of course the parts were he shows up in the original stay the same as well.
Even better, have it be a side chapter where you play as a series of hopeless victims as he heads towards the top floor. Literally make an "alien isolation" style chapter, where the only way to win is to _not_ encounter him, no matter how much you want to see him. @@brotbrotsen1100
Yeah, exactly. It's also writing 101 to not have your main villain fight and lose to the main character at the end of every installment if you plan on making him an imposing and feared villain. That's ehat you do when you make a "monster of the week" scooby-doo type story. It's so painfully dull and incompetent.
Seeing your Shishio cosplay makes me realize something, Makoto Shishio is one of the coolest villain ever, he's extremely well written and memorable, Sephiroth used to be that way, he was interesting and intimidating, just like Shishio, now he's a complete joke, a walking anime trope with atrocious dialogue and a butchered personality, Sephiroth used to be on the same level as Shishio. Now he's just Genesis twin brother
I watched someone else beat REBIRTH because I am so uninvested I wanted to see how they did Aerith’s death… and when I didn’t understand it (because I didn’t personally play it), I was like, “that was trash.”
@@ArcessitorBecause a character getting skewered by the villain while trying to save the world isn’t a hard bar to hit considering the original did it better. They are trying to convolute a simple narrative for no reason. People just need to start admitting it’s bad writing.
If this sephiroth is the same one from advent children, then this means that ultimately, sephiroth loses in the original game, loses in advent children. Loses in ff7 remake, loses in ff7 rebirth, and will lose in the 3rd installment as well. Unless sephiroth actually wins at the end of the 3rd game, he will have lose every single encounter that he ever has with cloud. What a formidable foe!
amazing video my dude. enjoyed it in it's entirety you have a great way of analyzing the story. I can't help but be a bit petty as I jeer and laugh at Square admitting that their new games are not selling very well. I too hope they turn it around so to speak but it's hard when I'm an OG FF7 and FFT fan who's repeatedly told those games and their systems are somehow subpar when that's what put them on the map.
god damn it took me a week to finish this but I agree 100%. As someone who voiced their opinion about the Retrilogy respectfully on the main FF reddit (mind you I was just responding to someone's comment telling them to chillout) and received death threats from crazed fans I cannot second this enough. The parallels between the XIII-2 and the retrilogy is fucking jarring lmfao.
Also amazing work, I can tell this video was no small feat and you really did care about the integrity of the story. Thank you for voicing my same distastes in a concise manner!
@@dyer_wav You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it! I feared that this video would age poorly because it was released a mere month before Rebirth came out (and some bits - like Wedge not dying or the part where I dismiss the possibility of a multiverse - have been proven wrong), but it seems a lot of my points are still applicable to Rebirth. Even though I won't be playing Parts 2 and 3 (I read the plot spoilers and I'm not interested), comments like yours make me feel that all the hard work and time I put into this video was still worth it. :)
@@obsessive_hermit Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from, I spoiled myself too because I was unsure if I wanted to spend the money on rebirth because of the issues I felt with remake. Your point on suspension of disbelief is poignant and I'm glad you made an emphasis on it in this video. People really need to chill out and not flame others about not liking the remake series, especially all the shit about the plot ghosts representing "gatekeepers" or "purists", it's such a loaded term that squanders any good criticism of getting through the masses.
What pisses me off the most about Remake is that if you removed the early reveals of Sephiroth and remove the stupid fate/whisper plot line, it’s a solid reintroduction to the game.
Agreed. They could have released the exact same game without that shit (and perhaps made JENOVA the final boss) and everyone would have been overjoyed. Literally no one would have said: "But where was the time-travelling ghosts and the multiverse bullshit? Where was the Sephiroth battle and defeating fate itself?"
I do pray they will still do something like this in the future. It is not like they have to remake the whole game again; they just have to remove certain scenes and alter some a bit. All the assets and the world, everything else is there to easily turn this into a true remake and cash out double on all of us fools xd
@@xvmvk8061 That would be great, but if they did that, the developers would essentially be admitting that they fucked up the story and so need to fix it retroactively. And Toriyama, Nojima and Kitase are too full of themselves to ever admit to such a thing. They clearly didn’t learn anything from The 3rd Birthday or the FFXIII trilogy (story-wise, that is), so I don’t expect anything will be different this time either. There’s no hope for a man who is enough of a fucking idiot as to think that: “if you change the future, you change the past” is acceptable writing.
Hermit, Are you dressed as Shishio from the Ruroni Kenshin series? I am a big Kenshin fan (as made obvious by my thumbnail). I agree that FF7R is made for a difference audience than the original games. It is full of post-modern sentiments rather the ecological/psychological combination we got in the original FF7. Its trying to answer different questions using the original as paintbrush.
Indeed, I am Shishio :) Specifically, my cosplay is designed to resemble his appearance in the live-action films (Kyoto Inferno and The Legend Ends). I'm not entirely sure if 7R is intended for a different audience than the original game was. I think the developers genuinely (and erroneously) believed that these changes/additions would be loved by fans of the original, when in actuality, they're just unwittingly projecting their desire to tell a new story onto the audience. They say in interviews that their goal was to remake FFVII with new mysteries and story elements to surprise old-school fans. In actuality, what they ended up doing was just remaking the FFXIII trilogy with an FFVII skin.
I don't think all this crap in the 7R trilogy was solely Nomura's doing--if anything, it seems to be a result of Nojima wanting to 'tie' the entire FF7 subseries together, Toriyama's obsession with fate, time-travel and multiverse crap, and Kitase's inability to understand that new =/= better. That said, I agree that Nomura's storytelling is very juvenile. I've heard many former-Kingdom Hearts fans compare the writing in KH to 'one of those elementary school playground fights where the kid you're fighting against keeps making up new powers so that he doesn't lose.' That perfectly summarizes all the constant retconning and plot twists surrounding Ansem, Xehanort and Organization XIII.
@@obsessive_hermitThen those were fake fans. Don't listen to people who spent years of their life to hate something. Literally compared to every other videogame story KH series makes more sense than something as seemingly basic as Zelda (Which is a shit horrible story that's a convoluted time travel mess)
@@obsessive_hermitThe square enix writing staff were originally going to KILL everyone in FF7. Nomura was the one who convinced them to not do it. You literally don't know shit.
I appreciate the fair and even handed approach in this video, the depths that some areas of the fandom have sunk to is sad, but it's been this way for decades at this point. The vague and confusing ending is absolutely deliberate, with the intent to stoke theory crafting and debate and thus maintain some momentum until part 3. The creators outright stated that they're looking forward to the theories, so you're spot on with that assessment. Whether the new story additions turn out to be the kind of hackery we feared from the start remains to be seen; personally I didn't like the ending of Rebirth but I'll hold judgement for now to see if the whispers/multiverse narrative really holds any weight (i.e. they couldn't have told the story they wanted without them). I'm a day one player of the OG game and as such had a lot of nostalgia and emotional investment in how these turned out despite some parts of Compilation and other works retrospectively damaging the cannon imo. On the whole I'm still on board and hope they can stick the landing, and hey, the OG game isn't going anywhere.
Much as I detest what this trilogy is doing, I don't wish ill fortune or disappointment on others. I sincerely hope that Part 3 ends up making (rather than breaking) the trilogy for you. As a precaution, I would advise bracing for the worst, because "mystery box" storytelling like this rarely results in a satisfying ending. But while this trilogy is not for people like me, I do hope that you'll be able to enjoy it in the end. Personally, I'll stick to the OG with mods. LOL
Just beat this and the thing I hate the most is the lack of control over the character. The game MAKES you do things like walking, looking, talking, etc. Even Classic plays for you. The game may as well just do everything for me, let me watch and sometimes interact with the game in a quick time event. I think I would have preferred to just watch this as an interactable film.
As someone who nver played the original, The remake and rebirth just have me confused at various points. So it's not just OG fans disappointed with the story ,
That's one of the things that frustrates me most about this project: many newcomers who pick up the Remake trilogy won't get to experience the amazing story that us older fans got to experience with the OG. My advice is to just buy the OG on PC and ask someone to help you with modding it. I've been playing the OG with numerous visual and UI mods and one which adds music from the Remake. It's awesome!
@@obsessive_hermit oof no! The Remake soundtrack is terrible! A handful of tracks are fine, but most are abominations. Anything with a guitar is bin tier.
I wonder if there will be a FFVII "Redemption" fan modder project in the future? Where once Episode 3 finally releases on PC, in like four more years or whenever, that modders will take all 3 Remake games, and combine them into one experience, and fix the major flaws. Remove the End bosses that were out of place in Remake and Rebirth, and all of the miltiversal stuff from cutscenes and lines. And replace the cutscenes that clash with the original story with new ones that are true to the originals. They could also do away with time waster and frustrating padding like the excess minigames, and make the items are reward from those discoverable through exploring the vast open zones. Maybe get rid of the Ubisoft towers and all the Chadley crap, and again, make all that stuff things the player needs to explore to find. Obviously it would require the player to purchase all 3 from Square Enix, but then the overhaul mod would "Redeem" the game. Essentially turning it into what fans wanted in a remake in the first place.
That would be cool, although I doubt that it's feasible. If it were, I think there'd be a mod like that for Remake already. Personally, my money is on mods for the OG. After reading up on Rebirth's story, I've finally written off this trilogy altogether. Instead, I'm eager to see how the modders can take its assets (e.g., music, cutscenes, character models, sound effects, voice acting) and mod them into the original game.
It also gives that person knows the person critiquing the plot is right. Why else would a person go out of their way to look for dissenting opinions only to defend their own?
Watching this as I type this. I'm gonna watch the entire thing because it's Saturday and I enjoy debate and challenging my ideas. Let's discuss this on a video call! There hasn't been a debate between two sides posted to RUclips yet. Let's do it. Your Shishio cosplay is awesome🤌🔥. And the video is the best I've seen on the topic so far.
Well, this is certainly an offer which I hadn't anticipated.... Thank you, good sir! I'd be happy to partake in a video discussion sometime this month (possibly next week). Would it be live on twitch or just a one-one video call which would then be recorded and put on RUclips? I think I'd prefer the latter, because I'm the kind of person who needs time to pause and think about the best way to word my points before speaking. If we did it live on Twitch, it would probably be unnecessarily long and drawn out. If we were to record it and then trim it down a bit before uploading, it would be a lot more succinct. We should also have a few back and forth discussions first about how to best structure our conversation (e.g., a list of points, who speaks when, in which order, etc.) before we film it though. And thanks for complimenting my cosplay! Do you mind if I wear it during the chat? In an age of AI, government surveillance and deepfakes, I'm not comfortable with my face being online (which is part of the reason why I opted to wear it for the video: I wanted people to be able to read my facial expressions while still keeping my face/identity safe). I'm glad you like the video thus far! It took A LOT of time and effort. The voiceover in particular involved a lot of process of elimination - literally EVERY SINGLE sentence is comprised of at least 2 (usually around 5) different takes cut up and stitched together so as to ensure proper pronunciation and the best intonation possible.
The fact that you are given an option after beating rebirth to auto skip all of the zack scenes proves that these guys had no idea what they were doing. If you shut remake off before the ending, skip all the zack scenes, and shut off rebirth just as aeirs is being killed (before the sephiroth fight and ending) you have a pretty good remake of the original.
Watching this now Rebirth is out hurts me in the soul. It's great in all the ways Remake is, but greatly improved in level design, gameplay variety etc....but then it not only doubles down on everything dumb about chapter 18, it actively jumps the shark and makes it worse by establishing that the alternate timeline versions of previously dead characters have quantum immortality because their memories are preserved, every fate defying decision creates a branching timeline, that travel between worlds is both possible and happens, you can go get spare copies of certain plot devices if something goes wrong..... It's at the point that if you wanted to really strain credulity, you could make a joke meta commentary that Zack is the real villain because his prescence single handedly destroys the stakes and any sense of cause and effect, and Sephiroth is actually the good guy because he wants to fuse the timelines into one and take the cookie jar away.
I'm no stranger to long videos, and this is hardly the longest one I have ever watched, but god damn is it a beast. It is very dense with information, and I feel it demands my attention so much that I just have to take a break at about 2 hours in. I have some thoughts so far. First of all, it's extremely well produced and edited. It's hard to believe this is the only video on your channel with just how well constructed it is. Beyond that, I find it is also very well reasoned and rational. Opening by admitting you are in the minority of people who even really had a problem with the ending was a smart conceit, and you go on to spend 2 hours making some very strong points about why this ending is either a) not good in isolation or b) not good specifically when taken in the greater context of multiverse media in general and/or Square's specific (failed) approaches to it. For me, when I got to the ending of Remake, I don't really recall having any problems with it. I had already been expecting some shenanigans to take place once we got to the end of the highway because obviously we weren't just going to get there and roll credits, so I was ready for something big to happen. I also had already gotten used to the whispers presence and more or less figured out what they were. I can't recall if I ever really questioned why we were fighting the whispers, but it is a very good question. I probably thought at the time, and still do sort of think, it's really just a manipulation of Sephiroth. My interpretation is that he somehow set the Whispers against us, as opposed to setting us against the Whispers. I was ultimately very happy with the ending of remake because I liked the promise of the "unknown journey" and "defying fate". While I enjoyed the adaptation of Midgar greatly, I was also excited at the prospect of things being very different moving forward. And I thought, personally, it was well done. It wasn't over complicated, overly contrived, completely out of nowhere, or anything like that. It was just right, and even the setup with Zack was perfect sequel bait. In isolation, it was great. But I think if I had taken a step back and really considered all the other crazy BS plots Square had come up with around that time, I might have seen the writing on the wall for what eventually happened with Rebirth. I also really appreciated your point about the lack of meaningful difference between writers and directors when it comes to the final product of a game's story. I remember one jackass in the FF Discord server very passionately arguing in favor of the Rebirth ending and also defending Nomura up and down and blaming Nojima exclusively as if somehow Nomura wouldn't have approved everything.
What remakes of games teach me, is that we shouldn't ask for them. The chance they do the OG justice is slim to none. Even the 'small' changes in Demon's souls remake put me off. Never liked the new Abe's oddysee either. And i can't begin to tell you how i feel about FFVII remake. When you are so passionate about a game, any changes to the original vision feel misplaced. I am not asking or looking forward to remakes anymore. I just appreciate the OG games. (As long as i played the OG game in the time it released of course, if not i have no issue playing the remake.)
I got through 2 hours of your discussion and here are my quick thoughts of details I wanted to chime in on. Not in any order mind you. Time travel trope [] I agree with you that the best time travel films I've seen tend to focus on the characters, be a character piece. I too hope the rest of the FF7R can handle this well. New Fan Feedback [] I agree somewhat to how a new fan only exsposed to Final Fantasy 7 Remake would raise their eyebrow at certain moments; I thought you captured that well with Cait Sith reveal ... But... I also have faith in the new audience, I've visited FF7 reddit alot and seen many new comers want to learn more about the IP, many reddit users suggest to them to play original game so they'll be more aware of minor context clues, Easter eggs etc. It's definitely not a perfect system but I do trust the audience and if they want to learn more they'll seek it out. I do think it's bull the devs said that anyone can jump into Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth because a lot was covered in that game and even the Red voice over recap didn't cover all the content. 1997 Cloud "Happy" ending [] Because we never got a close up of Cloud's face at the ending of that game I'm truly unsure if he was truly happy. Sure we can see that he .. He got closer to Tifa, saved the planet but truthfully he might not have been as happy as we might think. I see why you'd make that conclusion though. Close Encounters [] This is my own point to add into this conversation. In Steven Spielberg's "Close Encounters of a Third Kind" .. he wrote for his script that the Father character would leave his Father responsibilities, his children to go with these Alien beings and explore their world(s). Spielberg was asked many years after the film if he would do anything different. He responded that he now has a different outlook and wouldn't want that Father character to out right leave his family. He had a new vision of how the story might be changed. I think this could easily be applied to this Final Fantasy 7 R series, if they choose to change stuff if they realized they want to shed light on certain other themes that were their but not as strong and bring them to the fore front they can. The audience might hate or loathe their choices but I do think it's freeibg they have that choice if they want something different from what came before. To end, I think this experience kinda like going to a fancy restaurant. Were hungry and promptly ate the first course. If you're case you probably burned your mouth during that first course and is not unsure if you want to continue. To me the first course was mostly to my liking but had a salty finish. I am willing to at least experience course number 2 so I have mote of an concept of ideas, themes, flavors offered. I'm personally excited for the unknown journey but hope it's written well and I can make sense of it.
As things are going, I imagine the third installment will also not feature the ruby and sapphire weapon. you'll probably need to buy them as DLC. Seperately. that is, IF they make it into the THIRD game... EDIT: YOOOOO SPEC OPS: THE LINE MENTIONED LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
UPDATE: I've seen an influx of viewers following Rebirth's launch and many are wondering whether I will be reviewing it and Part 3 or not.
I won't be. I have no plans to make another video on FF7R. I understand that many would like to hear my thoughts on those games, but I've read up on all the spoilers for Rebirth, and they were enough to conclude that this trilogy will never be for me. The things which made me fall in love with the original FF7 are not being retained in Remake/Rebirth. To explain:
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Possibly the biggest reason why I loved the OG so much was because it had some of the HIGHEST emotional stakes of any story I've seen. And the main reasons for this were:
1) how the magic system worked (as I explained in the video at 2:15:31 - 2:25:33)
2) the relatable theme/message about life having a sacred, immaterial value (even amidst/because of all the losses suffered by the characters).
3) the uniqueness of the characters and their very human-relatable struggles/relationships.
4) the character of the planet itself.
The Remake trilogy is replacing the OG’s themes with a postmodern, meta-theme about predeterminism and whether it can be defied or not, which is far less relatable. So that's bad enough.
But more importantly, Rebirth has eschewed one of the most important factors which made the OG stand out from all other JRPGs about "saving the world":
There's a phenomenon in psychology called: the "identifiable victim effect" - "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." As humans, we did not evolve to form emotional attachments to millions of people - we evolved to live in small groups of about 150 (Dunbar's number), so our ability to empathize is better suited to caring for select individuals rather than collectives.
This is why Fall (2022) - a movie about 2 women trapped atop a 600+ metre radio tower - manages to be more emotional and intense than a lot of superhero movies where the heroes have to save the entire world/galaxy/universe/multiverse from being destroyed.
But OG FF7 did something VERY clever to circumvent this problem: the world ITSELF was a living organism. FF7 managed to be more intense than any other "save the world" story I've seen because THE PLANET ITSELF WAS A SYMPATHETIC CHARACTER - it was an innocent being desperately trying to defend itself from an exploitative corporation/alien invader/meteor threat. I cared about it just as much as I did about the main characters ON IT.
For me, FF7 was infinitely better when the planet was just a living organism; the Lifestream was its blood/soul from which spells and monsters could be drawn. And that was it. But in the 7R trilogy, the writers have overhauled the planet into an omni-dimensional being with a "singularity" which can create time-travelling ghosts, resurrect the dead and control the spacetime continuum, spawning alternate universes when fate is defied.
Basically: the planet is not a character with its own will or limitations anymore. Now it’s just a plot device which arbitrarily does whatever the writers arbitrarily want it to do.
To say nothing of the multiverse, which is a HUGE deal-breaker for me.
See, in order for me to empathize with fictional characters, they have to be UNIQUE. It's a fact of life that: the less unique something is, the more expendable it becomes. Thus, stories featuring multiverses are a VERY hard sell for me, because it's difficult to empathize with the characters when there are now infinite clones of them (I don't believe alternate universes exist IRL, so I don't believe they exist in fiction either UNLESS EXPLICITLY INDICATED).
Granted, there are some multiverse stories which DO work. E.g., I love Everything, Everywhere, All At Once, but that's because 1) there were limits on HOW and WHEN universe-hopping could be done, and 2) the multiverse was a METAPHOR to reinforce the movie’s themes; to forward Evelyn's character arc about reconciling with her daughter and being more courteous; to help us better empathize Jobu's depression and nihilism. And lastly, the moral of the story is: even if a multiverse DOES exist, what matters is that you focus on the people/loved ones in YOUR world. Make the best with what you HAVE; don't waste your time on trivial questions like: "what if things had been different?"
Also, multiverse stories ONLY work if the different versions of a given character are DISTINCT enough to feel like unique characters of their own. Part of the reason why e.g., No Way Home worked is because the 3 versions of Peter had different ages, personalities and backgrounds - they had different life experiences (despite some commonalities), different love interests and different villains. Thus, they felt like different people. The scenes where they compare and contrast their lives makes them feel like unique individuals rather than just knock-offs of each other.
Perhaps most crucially though, multiverses have been pervasive in superhero comics since the 80s. Because of this, I wholly anticipated that the MCU would eventually start hopping into alternate universes as far back as Avengers (2012), so I was able to adjust my expectations for the rest of the franchise going forward. The addition of a multiverse with Dr. Strange and Endgame didn't cheapen the story and characters for me, because I had ALREADY accepted that there were infinite versions of them. Likewise, Everything Everywhere, All At Once was always UPFRONT about the fact that it has a multiverse in it.
But FF7 is a story which has already existed for a long time WITHOUT alternate universes. Because of that, its world and characters were always UNIQUE to me; I was able to grow more emotionally invested in them than I EVER could in ANY multiverse story.*
*I'm aware of the theory that the ENTIRE FF franchise may possibly be connected by a multiverse. However, such a possibility has never been confirmed and is limited only to trivial details which made it easy for me to ignore (like Gilgamesh's cameos). Simply put: I love FF DESPITE the possibility of an FF multiverse; not BECAUSE of it. But in Rebirth, unfortunately, the presence of a multiverse is impossible to ignore.
The addition of a multiverse in 7R was ALWAYS going to end up damaging my experience (regardless of how they executed it); it was INHERENTLY going to TAKE AWAY from my emotional investment in 7's world and characters, but it's made worse by the fact that Remake's characters feel EXACTLY like their OG counterparts. Aside from Cid and Sephiroth (and maybe Aerith), they are EXACTLY like how they were in the OG.
This sadly means that they have NO UNIQUE IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN. Perhaps a good analogy to explain this would be CLONES in sci-fi stories: if a character gets cloned, the clone WILL die at the end of the story, and nobody will care. Audiences don't care if clones die, because they ARE NOT UNIQUE CHARACTERs - they’re knock-offs of the characters we REALLY care about.
When I was playing Remake for the first time, I assumed that its characters were the same ones whom I love from the OG, because almost everything about them was spot-on. So when I got to the ending and learned about the possibility of a multiverse (which Rebirth has since confirmed), it destroyed my ability to see them as unique individuals worth caring about; they're just facets of a larger whole.
If Cloud in 7R was a fundamentally different character from OG Cloud (e.g., if his dad was affluent, moved the family to Midgar, and Cloud grew up to be a spoiled rich kid who is then thrust into saving-the-world without having ever experienced hardship), then MAYBE the alternate universe angle could have worked. But as it stands now, I can't care what happens to Rebirth's characters, because they AREN'T UNIQUE PEOPLE whom I can love - they're just ONE out of an infinite variety of CLONES (many of whom are actually shown on-screen in Rebirth).
My love of FFVII depends too heavily on its characters and world being unique; too much for me to ever accept multiple versions of them.
Also, I don't find Sephiroth even remotely threatening anymore. I couldn't care less about his plan to destroy every possible universe and combine the remains into one. If anything, I'm ROOTING for him to do so.
---
And so with that, the realization which I have sadly come to is: the things which I loved most about the original FF7 are not being retained in this trilogy. The 7R project has thoroughly and irreparably undermined them with all these metatextual elements and superhero comic book tropes which the devs are adding.
I think the two main reasons why I made this video were 1) to provide solace to those who were also disappointed and 2) to help come to terms with my grief (ala "Writing Therapy"). But it took me 3 years and thousands of hours to make; I don't want to do another project of this scale unless it's something I am deeply passionate about. Now that I have overcome my grief, I feel little more than apathy towards the FF7R trilogy, and I really don't think Square Enix can ever do anything to convince me that Parts 2 and 3 will be worth my time (let alone make a video critiquing of them).
I just don't have the passion anymore. It's gotten to the point where I have unfollowed a large number of accounts and muted several terms relating to FFVII (e.g., Cloti, Clerith, Aerith, Tifa, Sephiroth, Costa del Sol, Junon, Gold Saucer, Terrier/Beagle timeline, etc.), because I just don't want to see them anymore. And my home page has been better off for it.
If any other content creators invited me onto a podcast or something, I would be willing to discuss what I loved about the OG FFVII in more detail (and what was lost in the 7R trilogy), but for now, it's time for me to move on.
Or just stick to the OG with mods.
look at my reincarnation theory. i think whats going on in ff7 remake is lore base not og based. it may not change your mind but i think this is the reason remake had this different feel
@@Soulasiangod I watched your videos and your theory is a very interesting one. However, the problem I have with 7R isn't that all the puzzle pieces don't fit together; it's that I just don't care for the picture(s) they create. I respect your theories and I sincerely hope that the 7R trilogy ends up being everything you ever wanted. I also appreciate your attempts at consolation. But alas, this trilogy is just not for me.
But your take would be 'the take' on the trashbag of fate fake out death . I get why you will not do it but it would be fire.
@@obsessive_hermit i think the missing piece for pre fans like you and i is the ff7 books they wrote. in one book they wrote after areith death she battles Seph in the lifestream over souls. while protecting the souls she had to put them in a space most likely the white space we see in remake and AC. but being in a pure white space would be boring so what if see created a world that looks like here home of midgar that all the souls she save can "live" in. but i agree with you its alot for as to put together and chance are hard that the 3rd game will clear all things up. so i dont blame you i just see a small chance they can pull it off.
@@HDY2024 lol before rebirth i was looking for someone to take my theory apart other then its timelines... even tho no timel in ff7 history anything ever say timelines. but
because devs dont want the ending spoiled its bettter if people still think the Devs making ff7 a time travel game so the can put the true lore base twist in.
Seeing all those clips of "SPACETIME" "SPACETIME" "SPACETIME" made me think of all those Kingdom Hearts clips of constant "DARKNESS" "LIGHT" "DARKNESS" "LIGHT"
Never thought in my wildest dreams that I would find a Makoto Shishio cosplayer critiqueing Final Fantasy 7 Remake
Yeah, I'm still in shock
Survival of the fittest
3:02:00 "It is trying to be a remake, a reboot, a sequel and an adaptation all at the same time." Well said! 👌
So technically...trying to be Kingdom Hearts ughhh...
@@ghmatt14 Yup.
In trying to please everyone, they'll end up pleasing no one. This is precisely why the ending of Rebirth didn't make me sad. It made me angry.
This video is really gaining steam. So great to see all your hard work rewarded.
Here from Orion. I'll bookmark this and watch over next few days.
I HATED the ending of remake when it came out, but I had to listen to scores of idiots tell me to just have an open mind, that I could impossibly tell whether it was gonna be good or bad until we see the rest of the product. These people live under the belief that a product can be crap for 99% of the experience and then suddenly become amazing retroactively. Maybe sometimes it can, but I am smart enough to know if something has that potential, and smart enough to see where certain things are going. I saw the iceberg of convolution coming a mile off and SHOCKER, I was right. But now I'll have to hear people say I'm still in the wrong and can't judge until part 3, as if part 3 will suddenly fix all the basic mistakes made so far.
One thing I've learned from the Star Wars sequels is that, if the first entry in a trilogy has MASSIVE storytelling issues (e.g., inconsistencies with established lore, weak characterization, obvious plot holes and forced contrivances), those issues almost certainly will NOT be addressed in the next two installments, because: if the writers were actually talented or cognizant enough to address those issues, they wouldn't have even been there in the first installment to begin with.
But you cant judge without playing the part , it is a fact
What? Yes you can. They might be parts, but they're all still stand alone games. You can absolutely judge them individually@@lincolnprestes7617
Iceburg of Convolution? All you do is whine KH but Remake is nothing remotely difficult to understand.
You're just a ass mad baby that refuses to see.
So when part 3 comes just disappear and stfu
@@obsessive_hermit What plot holes, what weak characterization? What parts of this are in FF7 remake? OH RIGHT you're speaking out of your ass as a cry baby because they put in the ghosts and changed a few little things lol
No wonder you're "late to the party"! That was an incredible production and the research you did must have taken you 'til now. That was a lot of info to take in let alone compose. Amazing. Closing with your music video using "Within Temptation" was a great closure.
Hey Thanks! The research part actually wasn't that tough, since I am good at finding sources and am quite media-literate. LOL. What did take a long time was figuring out how best to structure the video and word my points; the script underwent A LOT of rewrites on the fly. However, by far the biggest time sink was editing the voiceover recordings (e.g., cutting out click sounds, stitching the best takes together, etc.). If I ever did decide to make another video essay (which would be a LONG ways off if I did), I would definitely make sure to find a more efficient means of editing the narration/voiceover.
I love the music video at the end too. Thank God the copyright holder doesn't mind the song appearing in RUclips videos.
Another excellent video on FF7R's bad storytelling, love to see it.
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
This is the most well researched, well thoughtout and well critique that tackles not just FF7 remake but the writing on time travelling and multiverse as a whole.
Because the developers said the added sephiroth so early because everyone already knows who he is, is exactly why I've always felt like they also expected people to have played the original. They changed just enough things (before the ending) that you would only notice if you played thw original. So the both expected people to play they original to make sense of the changes, while also making a confusing game that was meant to bring new players on board. They bring this theme into rebirth as well. You get to chose whether tou want to believe Aeris died, or lived. They could not and would not commit to anything. They needed to try to please everyone. And it backfired as inevitably as that mindset always would.
*you get to CHOOSE
"So the both expected people to play they original to make sense of the changes, while also making a confusing game that was meant to bring new players on board"
It was never meant to bring new players on board, you made that up. The entire game is fanservice meant for people who have played the original.
After replaying the original I urge anyone who hasn’t to do so. You can literally pinpoint the moment this industry had to be taken seriously. People forget the impact this game had. How everything before it was so vastly inferior that it’s hard for current generation to even fathom the impact
Great video. I've enjoyed your comments for years, so I'm not surprised to see something so well articulated and well thought out.
You covered a lot but kept it entertaining (and funny). Thank you for the callouts to my own channel. It's very much appreciated. Also fascinating to learn that Super Eyepatch Wolf published some comments on Remake. I wagered he would feel this way on the game, but I had assumed he remained quiet.
I hope you make another vid (be it FF or otherwise). Consider me a fan. By the way, the cosplay is a neat idea.
Thank you so much for the positive feedback and support, Orion! It'll be a long time before I make another video (very busy in my personal life now), but I have considered doing a retrospective critique/analysis of the remake trilogy after it's all over. However, that will depend on whether I ultimately decide to play Parts 2 and 3 or not, and whether or not they succeed in winning me back.
The idea behind dressing as Makoto Shishio was that I don't want my face to appear online (i.e., AI, surveillance, targeted advertising, deepfakes, etc.), but I still wanted people to be able to read my facial expressions. And it just so happens that one of my cosplays worked perfectly for it LOL.
Great video, current Square Enix is an asylum run by inmates that I wouldn’t trust to order Doordash. I wouldn’t exactly compare Sakaguchi to a warden, but he led the monkeys to make some truly amazing work that are still milked to this day. It’s genuinely disappointing that the OG fans are eating up the fanfic like rewrite instead of a remake they wanted, while the new tourist fans are just happily confused and distracted by pretty visuals.
We aren't. Compilation fans are the core audience. The rest of us got off the train after Remake and that's why the sales are poor.
Wow, this is probably the best video on the subject! Especially given that you included so many well articulated sentiments from other critiques.
What irks me is that Remake was my first introduction to FF7 & I loved it. Not got a clue what's going on but I loved it.
Then I played OG. Loved it.
Then I played Rebirth, they ruined Dyne's payoff, Nanaki's payoff felt underwhelming & the ending left me scratching my head rather than feeling grief after losing Aerith. Now I know how some OG fans feel after Remake's ending.
It's a shame really because the combat, the characterisation, presentation & music is so good.
I think the biggest problem us OG FF7 fans have with this remake series is that it just doesn't feel like FF7 anymore, the themes of the story are different. So why attach the FF7 name to it?
I can't help but agree.
@@LordMalice6d9 This is just the new FF7. They are remaking FF7 in the sense that they are just making an updated interpretation of that story. It is not a sequel or connected to the original game in any way like people were speculating after the ending to Remake. They are just rewriting FF7 where they shove all this compilation stuff into it and change things because...reasons?
I am glad that you were able to experience the original game and see why it is so beloved. The original FF7 was not just my first jrpg, it was the game that turned me from someone who played games on occasion to really getting into the hobby. It was the first time I had ever been drawn into a world. So it was a very influential game in my life. I could have been won over on the whispers and this idea of changing fate depending on what they did with it going forward. Because the whispers were just setup. What they did with it was going to determine how good or bad their inclusion was. Except what Rebirth did was nonsensical and defeating the whispers was almost pointless that I can't see it as anything but detrimental to the story of FF7. Rebirth is such a narrative mess where they change things that don't need to be changed, certain characters, like Cid, are just rewritten to be different characters entirely. They miss the point of Aerith's death and why it worked.
Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of Rebirth that I did like but so much of it is just terrible.
Music is good, except sometimes even the music gets unnecessary reimagining. sephiroths new theme is a Frankensteins monster of a theme, interesting to listen to, but ultimately just not something I'd come back to over and over.
It's oddly comforting knowing people still care about this. Remake was a fun game but every change they've made to the story has been for the worse. Plus the whole thing has been padded to hell. The original has a special place in my heart because it was the first time I'd seen such an intriguing story in a game. It's sad to watch them take that story and remove the stakes with such bad writing.
I tried the Rebirth demo in the hopes they'd learned their lesson but I couldn't finish it. Sephiroth was weak so they got storytelling through gameplay wrong. And the demo kept making me vacuum gas so even the gameplay was mixed with tedium. I disliked it so much I looked up spoilers for the game, which I hope are wrong. I won't mention it here. If it's right it's really stupid and will be undone in the next game.
I disagree that EVERY change made was for the worse (I think the Honeybee Inn is better, actually), and I LOVE the combat and new character designs. However, I agree that the OVERARCHING plot and narrative were thoroughly compromised, and Sephiroth is just quaint now. It's gonna take a some SERIOUS writing talent to win me back, and I doubt SE can pull off something this messy.
Either way, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! :)
Sephiroth was weak to you?? Bro you just admitted you are bad at the game how tf do you play to make that character weak😂😂
I know what you mean. I love OG 7 and the ending of Rebirth actually made me sad with how needlessly convoluted it was.
@@andimari9194Wouldn’t finding Sephiroth weak mean he’s good at the game?
@@ForceEdge47 no. So he said he tried the demo. The demo is where you play as sephiroth, so him finding seph weak means he found PLAYABLE sephiroth weak which is WILD LOL
the "I dont think its a multiverse" thing is funny now that rebirth is out. A much worse ending than Remakes that destroys even more.
I know. That part really aged poorly. I haven't played Rebirth, and I probably never will now that I've read up on how its story pans out. I plan on pinning a comment detailing my stance on it under this video, but I'm taking my time figuring out how to word it.
@@obsessive_hermit I think it says it all that instead of all the videos about the ending talking about how sad they are Aerith died it's just everyone being confused and trying to figure out wtf even happened.
Took what is widely considered the saddest moment in gaming and sucked any emotion out of it.
The staff enjoyed MCU and JJ Abrams writing too much.
Sometimes it seems like they've been exposed to that kinda media way later than the rest of the world, who has grown mostly tired of it in the past couple of years@@Weiss_Hikari
@@obsessive_hermit As* a game, Rebirth is honestly mindblowingly good, and even the story isn't all that changed until the end. The ending is just plain confusing, but the game is still 10/10, just for that experience alone it's worth it to be honest...because everything good you said about the remake, in rebirth is trippled.
I feel like multiverse is a marketing technique. You keep the well known brand and characters and get to sell product to a larger audience than if you start with a new game with new characters.
I think your second sentence refers more to the use of the FFVII BRAND, rather than the multiverse per se. But still, I agree with you. The whole "alternate/lifestream worlds" gimmick feels like it exists only for marketing reasons. E.g., the developers can put scenes like Barret, Tifa, Aerith and Nanaki dead in Midgar into Rebirth's trailer and thus generate speculation, only for Rebirth to come out and say: "Actually, that was all just happening in limbo; none of what we showed in the trailers actually mattered."
This is another reason why I don't believe this trilogy will end well. The developers are prioritizing internet theories and short-term thrills at the cost of coherence and long-term MEANING. 30 years from now, people will still be talking about how great the OG's story was, and the Remake trilogy will likely be seen as an experiment which didn't pay off as well as was hoped.
It’s funny how every few months I find a video that pretty accurately describes my thoughts on remake and the whole project. Good job, it was a great watch.
Also. Really appreciate Within Temptation at the end. Bringing back some good memories. 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I first played FF7 more than 20 years ago as a child, and again when it released on the ps3 store and while I enjoyed it at surface value back then, it wasnt my favorite of the FFs that I had played previously. It wasnt until I replayed it more recently some years before Remake, during a time of hardship due to the loss of a close family member, that FF7 genuinely resonated with me. I guess I needed a means to cope or way to accept or move on from it, but the greatest difficulty was seeing and dealing with how it affected the rest of the family. As I played through FF7 I began to notice patterns, themes n such develop throughout the story, the characters and what they are going through. Certainly had much more teary eyed moments this time around. After finishing the game, I realized that what I was going through at the time and my experiences, arent much different than what Cloud the others went through during their journey. There is a lot of death and losing those close to you in the game, but more significantly, how they fought through those struggles. I came to the realization that under the surface, FF7s main theme or message its trying to convey is about overcoming and accepting loss...I also came to later learn through retrospectives and analysis', that one of the main developers also suffered a very close loss and struggled with it as I did, and implemented that into the game, thus is the theme... Needless to say, this struck quite a few major chords with me and I was in totally teary dumbfoundedness.
To post preface, I did play the spins off and didnt care much for most of them mostly because of how much of what I value out of FF7 is non-existent(except maybe CC), and also most of the KH games. But when they announced the Remake, I was ecstatic, yet bitter sweet seeing Nomura as the Director...cuz reasons. I still played it and loved just about everything it offered and expanded upon, except the notable changes and of the course the ending to which I was very indifferent. I took some to collect and ponder my feelings and came to understand that its basically a pre-sequel, tying or dare I say retconning in the many spin offs into a collective work, possibly leading in to AC or something entirely new(?) The Remake & Rebirth stray very heavily from the OG themes that I hold dear and value, then and even now. Reason being, the alternate timeline / uni-mulitverse stuff, everything pertaining to those themes of loss, loses all impact and meaning. So much so for me, that I just dont care anymore and am sadly only in it for morbid curiosities sake and the other reasons my younger self enjoyed it. I probably wouldve gobbled this trilogy up back then too.
I am still, however, reserving judgement in hopes of a total subversion at the trilogies conclusion, harkening back the OG themes, but given how Remake / Rebirth began and ended, idk. I hope Im completely blind, but all Im beginning to see is the narrative devolving into a generic defy fate, kill bad guy(s), save universes kinda thing. But if people like it and find value in it then great and Im glad for them. Because FF7 once did the very same for me, albeit maybe for different reasons, but FF7R is a different FF7.
I resonate with your perspective. It's one of my biggest criticisms of this trilogy as well, and why I've decided to jump ship: the developers have eschewed so much of what helped set the original game apart from other "save the world" stories (which we see all the time in fiction), and reduced it to yet another vapid "save the multiverse" story which falls flat emotionally and has been DONE TO DEATH in superhero comic books.
03:04:56 "I am not the sort of person who can just embrace chaos as it comes and goes I need structure: good writing, pacing, in universe plausibility, high stakes tension and drama, relatable characters, relatable themes, and characters in whose struggles I am invested, are the things I care about most in story telling."
Did you ever play Lost Odyssey? That game was written by Hironobu Sakaguchi and and has all the things your asking for. The setting of the story is in a fantasy world that has multiple protagonists in a similar vein to FF6, one of which is Kaim, a man who is an immortal who travels across the world meeting various people throughout his lONG life. Since not everyone in that fantasy world is immortal. And the story focuses on the pains of being able to live forever, with questions like "What happens when the ones you grows bonds with grow old and die?" Or "What happens if an immortal is locked off from the rest of society unable to communicate with anyone but unable to die?" This and many more questions are explored in this game. There are other interesting characters in the game as well, with characters being super relatable, with ALL of them getting TONS of development, with many of them being completely different characters by the end of the story compared to how they were in the beginning. And all of this is wrapped up by an AMAZING soundtrack by Nobou Uematsu ( seriously, the battle them goes so HARD). On the other hand, the game play is a traditional turn base game, with nothing to innovative going on there. But that's not what people who praise this game focus on. That would be it's narrative, pacing, music, and characters which are all SUPERB. Seriously it's a great game. And is currently tied as my favorite JRPG with FF9.
You need a 360 to play it though.
I really want to play Lost Odyssey but I don't have an Xbox 360. I think I'll just save up for a new PC and hope that Xbox emulators get better (I played Shadow of the Colossus on a PS2 emulator).
Or I'll borrow an Xbox 360 from a friend.
@@obsessive_hermitI bought Lost Odyssey once, and after I beat it for the first time and the credits began to role. I was so in love with what I experienced that I went out and bought ANOTHER copy just in case my original purchase product broke and wouldn't be able to play this masterpiece. Which is something I rarely do. And I enjoyed the dark subjects the game explores such as abuse, and forced isolation. And unlike FF7Remake, death is ACTUALLY permanent for MANY characters in this story. And the game had MULTIPLE moments that made me tear up. I also feel like the game handles romance WAY better than what was better in many Final Fantasys. For instance, in like FF10( And I'm sorry, but that who sequence that started with the kissing scene being Tidus and Yuna over the water was so ridiculous that I couldn't take it seriously). In comparison. Lost Odyssey has has one of the most beautifully directed romance scenes I've scene in a JRPG.
I never expected to find a Shishio Makoto review of Rebuild of EVA, I mean FFVIIR.
Pretty good.
I watched a Lot of Critiques for this Game(many which you even inserted in your video)questioning myself even to be considered a ff7 fan(since so many love this game),to reaffirm my beliefs.
your video finally cured that itch,and my soul can rest.
Thank You❤
I'm glad I could be of help. Nobody wants to experience grief alone.
If it's any consolation, I recently started replaying the original game with mods installed, including: New Threat 2.0 (combat only), ReMusic, Ninostyle character models, environmental overhauls, AI-enhanced FMVs and backgrounds, Project Edge backgrounds, new sound effects, UI changes, Shinra Archeology's retranslation, some gameplay tweaks and more. It's REALLY damn good, and I can't wait to see what else the modders do as time goes on.
Yes, it's sad that fans like you and I will never get a truly faithful adaptation of the original game's story with the 7R trilogy's tech. and production budget, but I think we should take what we can get. I really hope that one day, someone can take FMVs and voice acting from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once said trilogy is finished).
I'm the guy from Indonesia whom you've told about this channel & video. I've just finished watching the entire video in both two nights. Words are probably not even enough to express how I deeply respect & admire you for doing something of such an epic, MASSIVE scale like this, and also on a PROFESSIONAL level with so many references, citations, sources, & researches. This is actually something that people must STUDY or learn seriously, in my opinion, really. Again, I'd say honestly that it's sad, however, of how very 'underrated' & practically almost 'unknown' such an EXCELLENT quality video like yours is. It's like that popular phrase somehow that: "the loudest voices is often the most obnoxious ones", sadly/unfortunately. That's just the reality of the world we're in, it seems. Please NEVER ever stop creating & making videos/contents of highest-quality like this. Subscribed, liked, & turned on the notifications. Consider me now also as a big/huge fan of you (& your works). Hopefully this one single little voice from a random stranger on the Internet yet who deeply cares for a smart, deep, real, honest, & quality content analysis like of yours, would actually do matter also to/for you personally. Because your video DOES MATTER for me personally, & deeply. Thank you very much. Once again, much & deepest respect, kudo, salute, & admiration for your excellent quality work! A big fan of yours from Indonesia.
Hey, thanks for the kind words and support, man! RUclips's algorithms are designed to promote videos that get lots of watch time, so the longer and more engaging the video, the better (as the saying goes: "you either go big or you go home"). Thus, I sought to make this video as comprehensive, concise and professional-looking as possible. I have a few ideas knocking around in my head for what else I could do with this channel. However, this video alone took me over three years to create and my personal life has been getting quite busy lately, so don't expect any new uploads anytime soon. LOL.
But again: thank you so much!
I really appreciate the effort you put into this. I don't evaluate narratives or experiences in a way that aligns with many of your criticisms but appreciate you articulating them and explaining how they impact the narratives for you.
Hey, Seal. It's a pleasant surprise to see you here. Glad to hear you appreciate this critique, even though we disagree on the trilogy.
I've been meaning to thank you for the reply you left under one of my tweets a few weeks back (the one about Crisis on Infinite VIIs). People like me sometimes need tough chiding in order to self-reflect and regain sanity. Your words helped me to realize that there's no point in continuing to be bitter about this trilogy, because it's not going to change anything, nor will it make me feel any better. Making this video was a form of writing therapy for me, and it's helped me to finally come to terms with my grief. I've accepted that the 7R trilogy will never be for me, which is sad to admit, but has in many ways been a relief. I'm still a bit despondent, but reducing the amount of FF7R-related material on my timeline (and more-or-less leaving the fandom) is helping me to move on.
If nothing else, I can stick to the original game; I'd be interested to see how the modders can enhance it using the 7R trilogy's assets.
I just finished your video and I gotta say I really appreciate the incredible effort you've put into the editing and organization of the entire thing! I'm really glad I had the time to watch it all in one sitting and absorb everything you've prepared.
I did wanna share something briefly related to a point you made about multiverses/time travel around 2/3rds of the way in. Within Square Enix there's another series called Drakengard (better known from it's "spin-off" series, NieR) which handles such topics with loads more finesse and understanding of the points you make. Time travel in the series is such an esoteric and unknown concept as a whole that at the point of writing, it's merely a tool of the writer to state why there is a parallel universe to our reality where dragons and a modern day city are in medieval Europe. It's something there as part of the larger overarching series's narrative and something which kicks off stakes (and isn't even used in the games as a mechanic so double win!). As for the multiverse part, the series keeps itself contained by managing it like a Bonsai tree. There is one main trunk of the timeline tree, and various forces are micromanaging divergent branches and possible alternate events to keep things on track. It's really brilliant how the writing team and the director of Drakengard/NieR, Yoko Taro, can entertain the idea of "what if" scenarios and time loops and a bunch of crazy plot devices that destroy games like FF7 Remake by simply maintaining a singular focus on the unique characters (and shutting down timelines that branch too far so that we don't have the expendable character scenario you described).
Of course, this stuff is actually background noise to what these games in particular truly focus on, and that's engaging character driven stories and unorthodox player interaction with the game. There is a single, isolated story to draw your attention and keep you entertained and attached to the characters, and as a bonus you can then dive into bonus materials and side content and other stories which may add context to the main games' stories, but are never REQUIRED to properly understand the story of the games. This is what the writing staff behind Compilation of FF7 (and clearly FF13 as well) have completely backwards.
I will say the series is a little hard to approach at times and has confounded me in ways I wish I could articulate better, but the writers clearly understand how to create and tell a story in an effective manner, even when they dare to do so in unorthodox and bizarre ways. I'd really recommend it if you haven't played it, even if just to return a shred of hope that there are still talented and capable heads at Square Enix lol.
Apologies for the long-winded thoughts, but I just really appreciated you breaking down exactly why FF7R (and various other modern FF stories) fail to have satisfying endings. Great video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I've seen an influx of viewers lately, and it's great to see that all my time and effort spent making this video is paying off. :)
I'm not that familiar with NieR. I tried playing NieR: Automata a while ago, but it didn't click for me and I quit playing at the point where 9S went missing. Pixel A Day has a video explaining why she didn't enjoy the game, and my impressions are about the same as hers. That said, I've heard NieR: Replicant is pretty good and that it may "scratch that Final Fantasy itch" somewhat, though whether or not I can get into it, only time will tell. But I have a long list of other games which I'm trying to get through first.
"[It shuts] down timelines that branch too far so that we don't have the expendable character scenario you described."
I'm confused as to what you mean by this. Are you saying that the only branching realities are very similar to the "main" universe? Because that wouldn't make things better for me. One of my contentions with multiverse stories is that they ONLY work if the different-universe versions of a given character are sufficiently DISTINCT enough to feel like unique characters of their own. Part of the reason why e.g., No Way Home worked is because the 3 versions of Peter/Spidey had different ages, personalities and backgrounds - they had different life experiences (despite some commonalities), different love interests and different villains. Thus, they felt like different people. The scenes where they compare and contrast their lives makes them feel like unique individuals rather than just knock-offs of each other.
A major problem with Remake's characters is that they feel EXACTLY like their OG counterparts. Aside from Cid and Sephiroth (and maybe Aerith), they are EXACTLY like how they were in the OG, in terms of personality, backgrounds, actions and motivations. This unfortunately means that they have NO UNIQUE IDENTITY OF THEIR OWN.
If Cloud in 7R was a fundamentally different character from OG Cloud (e.g., if his dad was affluent, moved the family to Midgar, and Cloud grew up to be a spoiled rich kid who is eventually thrust into saving-the-world without having ever experienced hardship), then MAYBE the alternate universe angle could have worked. But as it stands now, 7R's multiverse angle has destroyed my ability to see the characters as unique individuals worth caring about - they're just ONE out of an infinite variety of CLONES.
Can you elaborate?
@@obsessive_hermit Ah, yeah forgive me for my poor explanation.
Luckily we have several examples of those branched reality events and characters being very different from the main timeline (the former example rather than the latter). A good example I can use is Drakengard 1.3, which is several hundreds of years down the line of Drakengard 3's ending A. The main characters we're familiar with from Drakengard 1 which still exist in Drakengard 1.3 have altered histories and don't experience the same events as their main timeline counterparts. Even one of the main systems of magic in the universe is absent in this branch so it drastically alters how the story plays out. (Sorry if I seem slightly vague, I don't want to drop major spoilers in the comment section).
What I feel is important though is that these branched alternate reality characters are extremely rare and more so a facet of the very early series history rather than something they keep doing. Drakengard 3 is where we get to see who or what is in charge of determining when a branch in the timeline needs to be shut down, and thankfully this almost always happens immediately. It emphasizes the importance of the main timeline's story and characters while dramatically reducing the number of alternate versions of the characters down to No Way Home levels of 2 or 3 at most. Again, I don't want to heavily spoil the games, but I hope I've said enough to give you a sense that the series has structures and limitations in place so that we don't have a million or even just five copies of the same person, and that anytime we do have more than one version of a character, their stories dont feel like carbon copies of one another.
But otherwise, I do actually relate with you in regards to NieR: Automata. I had a significantly better time connecting with the characters and story of Replicant than I did Automata, so whenever you feel like trying it out I definitely suggest giving Replicant a try!
"I don't think it's a Multiverse"
Rebirth: *Starts immediately with an Alternate Universe Zack finding Alternate Universe main cast*
Yeah, that part aged poorly. LOL
I wish it wasn't a multiversal series because its butchered my interest
That weird moment where past you wasn't cynical enough, it turns out..😅
I still do not think it is a multiverse.
I think what Nojima is doing it is telling his "On The Way To a Smile: Lifestream White and Black" story that he himself wrote.
That is what I think this FF7 remake series is headed.
@@nyhtfall1969I still don't think it is a multiverse story.
The ending was terrible. The “meta-plot-ghosts” were terrible. The OG fanbase was hoodwinked, they clearly mislead us in a malicious way. I don’t trust FF Union’s polls; regardless of the game, they never say a bad word about SE and clearly have a direct link to them. I will play Rebirth and the 3rd iteration, but I can already say, the new direction is nonsensical. I believe we are far many then the “toxic voices” you see online. Here courtesy of Orion 😉. Thanks for your videos and giving us a voice
I agree with most of your points. However, I disagree that FF Union's poll is untrustworthy (i.e., that they forged the results). While I do argue in the video that said poll may not accurately reflect the Remake player base (e.g., due to sampling bias), I don't think that this is due to any amount of lying or dishonesty on FFUnion's part. Just the circumstance of how internet polls work. Much as FF Union may have sponsorships and connections to Square Enix, I don't believe that they would lie about the poll results. If they had, then that would be sending inaccurate info. to the devs, which would not be good for the overall quality of 7R trilogy in the long term.
But I'm glad that I'm able to give a voice to those like yourself, who also felt letdown and deceived by Remake.
Hey, thanks for the reply. Yeah, it’s cool dude, I know you weren’t saying that. I don’t think they outright lie either, however one must consider FF Unions position. From a business perspective, they have an incentive to continue their “special relationship” with SE. I think minimal tweaks or slightly adjusting their sampling (eg. eliminating a sub-category from the end result) in order to dampen any given controversial subject matter, isn’t outside the realm of possibility. As they say “there’s lies, damn lies and statistics”. They wouldn’t like to see those perks and incentives which drive their business forward to suddenly dry up after a survey they release confirms consumer criticisms with hard data. This is actually quite common these days, particularly in the film industry. Obviously I have no data to back up what I suspect FF Union are doing and I’m just some guy, what do I know 😄, but it would not surprise me at all if they were doing it. Cheers for the chat 👍🏻
@@oliversmith9296 Yes you can lie by stats but then we enter the realm of subjectivity and we can't have a productive discussion. And the Nomura death threats should probably stop
@@matten_zero Not quite sure what the correlation is you’re trying to draw between FF Union’s polls and Nomura, but cool we agree, statistics can be manipulated, what’s the problem? I was simply giving context on how this may be the case. Your attempt at moving the goal posts though is in fact what hinders and shuts down productive discussion. No one here is talking about sending death threats to developers, if that’s on your mind dude, you should probably get outside and touch some grass. The spirit of the discussion was healthy criticism of FF7R. This video did a fantastic job of that.
@@oliversmith9296 Those are fair points. But I've been in these circles for a minute. Not saying this is you or anyone in this comments section, but I've just seen the more toxic side of the Nomura-hate squad. I grew up seeing this happen to Hideaki Anno and it is something endemic of otaku/gaming communities in general. That's my knee jerk reaction to the purists.
I'm cracking up at the FFXIII to FF7R direct comparisons lol. (@1:12:59) Glad someone is finally pointing this out so clearly.
The FF7R to FFXIII story parallels could be it's own detailed video.
Something I've suspected for a while now is that Motomu Toriyama (and possibly Hamaguchi too) is just repackaging certain story elements that he wrote in the FFXIII series into FF7R. I think he's convinced that they were good story telling tropes/beats (debatable), but they just didn't land with the FF fans because of FFXIII's other issues.
And he seems to be getting his wish as it looks like the fandom at large isn't really noticing these storytelling issues because they either haven't played or don't remember XIII, or are just uncritical of those plot elements when they are sandwiched between the beloved setting and characters of FFVII.
Like the scene at the end of the highway, where the characters assume that their vision of Meteor is the "vision of what will happen if we fail today"... is a direct parallel to FFXIII Chapter 3 when the characters are branded as L'cie and assume that the vision they all see is Cocoon being destroyed (supposedly a "bad ending"), when actually its a vision of the ending where Cocoon is saved at the end of the game.
And one of the trailers for Rebirth literally uses the phrase "Worlds collide", which is the title of a Battle track in FFXIII-2 where the lyrics mention "Gates through timelines", "fix the past", and "My destiny my change your fate".
There's a strange kind of irony happening here where those of us who are supposedly "blinded by nostalgia" are able to accurately point out all the ways these storytelling tropes have flopped in the past, but other fans are unaware of these issues because they've been hidden alongside fun characters in a familiar/"Nostalgic" setting.
I think the positive reception of Remake and Rebirth is artificially maintained by the fact that both games end on massive, unresolved cliffhangers which leave many fence-sitters HOPING that those issues will be resolved in Part 3 (hopes and dreams for the future are boundless, whereas the eventual reality will be hampered by various flaws and limitations). I suspect that when Part 3 finally wraps up and answers all these mysteries which Remake introduced, it will break the whole story for a lot fans (since they'll no longer be able to use theory-crafting to rationalize the problems, nor dismiss said problems by merely waiting for the next part to come out).
I'm sure many will still defend it, but I suspect the FF7R trilogy will lose a lot of people when Part 3 answers everyone's questions, and that it will prove the following: the FFXIII trilogy's writing was so bloody awful that not even FFVII could get people to love it.
I honestly dislike Toriyama's writing even more than Nomura's, because much as I dislike Nomura's style (i.e., ALL of the important stuff happens at the end while the preceding 40 hours are nothing but filler), Nomura at least seems to be aware that many people dislike his writing. Toriyama seems to GENUINELY think that he's GOOD at writing time-travel/destiny stories, and that level of ignorance plus hubris flat-out disgusts me.
I confess, I was sitting on the fence. My wishful reasoning was this ending was just stupid sequel hook and way to get people speculating, but they surely wouldn't be that reckless when big moments happen later.
I was careful not to buy Rebirth though before watching cutscenes first. And now I most certainly won't. Never trusting SE again.
It hurts even more that they show they are capable of respecting characters and story large portions of game, they just choose not to when it matters.
Thank you for this video. This was strangely catharctic experience. I shared many of same feelings but you skillfully provided context for them. I think I can move on with my life now.
Excellent work. Well researched and well presented. Loved it. I watched from start to finish and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. Excellent analysis!
It was great research. Slayheim did you see your cameo in Orion85 new video? Very cool.
@@lovelybiz I did not! I’ll have to check it out. Thanks :)
The endings or Remake and Rebirth show that Square has no confidence in the original story.
They have but they want to create something different and better but they don't have a clue what that is
@@dinoXAs2Because they do not have anywhere near the same talent that they had back then. Even when they have many of the original FF7 dev names attached to it like Nomura, Kitase and Nojima.
no more sakaguchi to shoot down kitase, nojima, toriyama, etc.
@@hmnanda I originally saw interviews with them saying their creativity was restrained in the OG and now they could make the game they wanted and I thought "Good! As good as the OG was I can't wait till I see how they expand it!" But now I'm really disappointed that just took the IP and turned it into whatever these first 2 games are...
@@chrisparkhurst5158 we now find out the new writers have the creativity of a 12 year old writing fan fiction
Seeing so many creators come out about their disappointment foe the FF7R trilogy is so relieving. Believe it or not, I fucking predicted this shit from day 1 of the Remake being announced, skeptical of it actually *being a remake*. After seeing its ending, I knew Remake and its next 2 parts were all sequel meta-multi-verse shit, I could see it from a mile away, and the smug toxic-positivity fandom all REE-ed that it was a remake-remake not a sequel! You just don't like that remakes change things sometimes! Insert all other excuses! Just wait until Rebirth launches and you'll see! And I sit here, seeing Rebirth did exactly as I knew it would, and I feel nothing but bliss (honestly, bitter-sweet bliss) that yes, THIS is the direction 7R was going in. A multiverse sequel meta commentary. And I had successfully avoided it being well read in the type of people working at Square.
As a concept artist developing my own fantasy comic myself, many friends have asked me "Why don't you go into art as your career" (Mind when I tell this story, it is not to say I disagree with people like me pursuing an art career, but this is what I want for *myself*) and I tell them that my greatest inspiration was always Nomura, a fantastic concept artist I had looked up to for years. Then I tell them while Nomura was my greatest inspiration, he is also my greatest beast I do not wish to ever become: That my own hubris and love for my ideas would make me unable to reliquish them to other's more capable hands if I needed to, so that I would destroy the art I desired to make.
This is unfortunately what has happened in 7R: those who have climbed to a higher power from a once highly-specialized and important, yet small role in creating a greater art (In this case, concept artist Nomura now director) are unable to admit they do not have the capable hands to take their ideas and execute them proper, or to be able to say "No" to ideas that they love so much.
The reason I cannot make art as my career is because of the stakes that ride on my decisions as an artist, especially if I did accumulate a higher position of creative power. As a hobby artist, there are no stakes. You can make mistakes, experiment, and what have you. I can enjoy my art and have to disappoint nobody but myself if I mess up. I can take all the time in the world to refine my practice, and then share if I so wish. So I choose not to make art a career.
As an artist and a writer, it takes a lot of will to limit yourself, to tell yourself "No, this doesn't work. You need to rework it or scrap it." and it certainly, no doubt, takes a lot of humility to pass your concepts to someone more capable than you, to "risk" that person to take your concept in a way you may not anticipate or like, but will be better executed than you are capable of.
I apologize for the ramblings. I was so pent up and fiery after seeing the video. I love FF and especially FF7. I have loved Nomura's work as a concept artist. To see the things I have loved so utterly destroyed because of, what, arrogance? Misplaced love? Spite? Lord knows. It wounds me so much more than it makes me smile in "I told you so."
I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with you.
I've recently considered writing my own novel, as I am a pretty decent writer with good drawing skills and a very clear vision of what type of story I'd like to tell. However, should I ultimately get around to writing and publishing such a book, I would not want to make a career out of it. I am an EXTREME quality > quantity guy: I like to take time with my work; refining it to make it as good as can be. Thus, if I did write such a novel, it would solely be a passion project (which I could still make money off of ONLY INCIDENTALLY). I wouldn't want to turn writing/drawing into a full-time career, as economic incentives always force people to prioritize quantity > quality.
I don't think Nomura is solely to blame for what the 7R trilogy is doing. From what I can tell based on interviews, it seems that the worst Nomura wanted was to include some kind of twist at the end of Remake which would keep people guessing until Rebirth came out (and the design of the whispers is clearly Nomura's style). But that is SURFACE-LEVEL involvement. Nomura may have wanted Remake to have an ambiguous twist ending which would drive discussion online, but the actual CONTENTS of the twist we got (e.g., the time-travel/destiny/multiverse BS) seems to be Toriyama's and Nojima's doing, because the former is obsessed with those things, and Nojima wanted to "bring [the entire FFVII subseries] together" and give Zack a bigger role in the story (thus, Nojima presumably thought that a multiverse was the only way he could do that).
Nomura's mistake is that he didn't veto enough of Toriyama's/Nojima's ideas, perhaps due to ignorance, social pressure or maybe because he'd vetoed enough of their ideas already and Kitase wouldn't let him veto anymore. Kitase is the worst of the bunch: he's a trend-chaser with no respect for the past (e.g., he thinks that those godawful mobile ports of FFV and FFVI look better the original SNES sprites).
i agree with you. nomura should NEVER be allowed to write. he can draw but his writing skills are horrendous. FF15 was in dev hell for a decade because of him. I never buy anything from the man again. Also Nojima is a horrible writer also.
Final Fantasy peaked with Tactics and the entire Ivalice series, 12, Advance, A2, Vagrant Story. if it isnt a Matsuno game, i dont touch ANYTHING final fantasy.
@@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw Tactics A2 was my first FF game and I love the world . Later played ff12:zodiac age and it was a blast walking throguh it.
One thing that I realized with this now being a multiverse story characters death don’t have anywhere near the same impact since there’s an exact copy of them in another universe
hey! i'm here from orion's community post. i just want to say that i first played the original back in 2018 back when i was in middle school and fell in love with it so much to the point that 6 years later i still consider that game to be my favorite ever. i watched advent children back in the day too, and as i was younger i just though it "was cool" and couldn't really criticize it as much as i could now, but that's a topic for another comment. i read up on a bunch of the compilation stuff as well. i replayed the original before i played the remake in summer 2020 and remembered all the reasons i still loved this game. needless to say i was more than excited to go into the remake, and sure enough as a birthday present i was gifted a copy of the remake. and i loved it for the most part! i too loved the characterization, the near perfect combination of action and RPG combat, and a lot of the added depth to the world. and holy shit i LOVED the remade soundtrack.
however, one thing that stuck with me after playing the remake was its ending. i could call it out for the bullshit it was. to me it felt like a giant "fuck you" to wanting something but then immediately being met with something so unnecessarily meta and for seemingly an unknown payoff or even none altogether. who knows? after going through a brainrot phase for a bit after just going through all that ff7 content (i even decided to play crisis core for how awful it is LOL), i fell into a rabbithole of theory crafting and kind of also fell into taking theory crafting from others as gospel like you said in your video. eventually i fell out of that too because i realized it's all pointless until we see what the devs actually cook up.
now here we are; less than 2 weeks before the release of rebirth. in that time between the theory crafting era and now, i've replayed the original game twice more, played crisis core reunion, rewatched advent children, played the yuffie DLC for the remake, and got the platinum trophy for the remake. i feel like i've known it all for a while now. i thought i'd have some idea of what's going to happen, but i don't. i guess that's why i've fallen back into a rabbithole of watching remake critique videos. suffice it to say, i think this video here has by FAR been the best one i've seen.
i'm actually so surprised at how you brought up ideas that i remembered feeling playing remake the first time, and even some that i wouldn't have thought of until now. all the while keeping stuff that could keep me engaged and entertained through a 3 hour video essay. truly the best critique i've seen on youtube; most level headed, most professional, and most engaging i've seen in a while. consider me a fan, honestly.
as for my thoughts on rebirth and part 3? i've already invested too much time and energy into the entire series for me not to play them as they come out, so i might as well. i can still fully see why you'd want to wait out for spoilers come out for the series, however. i wish nothing but the best for you and hope that you make more videos like these!
Thanks so much for the kind words and feedback, my friend! :)
RUclips's algorithms are designed to promote videos and channels which get more watch time (measured in raw seconds/minutes/hours; not percentage of the video itself), and your video needs to look professional and be extremely concise/to-the-point if you want people to keep watching it. For that reason, I decided early on that I had to either: "go big or go home." It's good to know that my efforts have paid off.
"I'm actually so surprised at how you brought up ideas that I remembered feeling playing Remake the first time, and even some that I wouldn't have thought of until now."
Thank you for noticing this! When writing the script, I tried really hard to remember how I felt when playing the game and its ending for the first time, because I've noticed a lot of fans saying that they hated the ending at first but later came around to it after a 2nd or 3rd playthrough and/or after watching some theory videos on RUclips. However, tons of people out there don't play games more than once, and not every gamer is interested in theory-crafting, nor may they even care enough to post their impressions online. Heck, some won't even LIKE most of the theories that RUclipsrs have come up with (I am one such player).
For those people, the developers only get ONE chance at a first impression, and I find that Remake royally shit the bed in that regard, because the entire ending feels forced and devoid of buildup; consequently breaking the player's immersion and not leaving them with anything to root for. Thus, when writing the script, I really sought to emphasize how the game feels to a more skeptical audience member - someone who is a lot more picky about the media they choose to engage with. I'd consider myself such a player, since I am neither a hardcore FFVII devotee nor a fresh newcomer. Rather, I just want a well-told story and will come-and-go depending on whether that criteria is met. E.g., I haven't played Dirge of Cerberus because it's awful, nor Crisis Core because I see no point in prequels, and I skipped a lot of MCU movies wherever I could out of convenience (e.g., I skipped Ant-Man and Ant-Man 2, Captain America: The First Avenger and The Incredible Hulk because they aren't essential to understanding Infinity War and Endgame).
A general rule when creating entertainment is the following: you've got the most hardcore fans no matter what; they'll still follow your franchise even if you have to drag them kicking and screaming the whole way. You need to win over the UNDECIDED. And unfortunately, Remake's ending doesn't exactly leave the undecided players with anything particular to remain invested in - that has been left entirely dependent on the theory-crafters. So if you're not into theory-crafting, the ending alone kind of leaves you feeling alienated and unsure as to WHY you should even bother picking up the next game.
Don't feel as though you HAVE to love the 7R trilogy and pick up Rebirth simply because of all the time and cash you've already sunk into it. That's the sunk cost fallacy, and I suspect it's fueling a lot of the toxicity and defensiveness that we see Remake's defenders weaponizing against critics (I'm not saying YOU'RE toxic; just to be clear). If you're not enjoying something, it's best to (at least be willing to) jump ship before even MORE of your time/cash is wasted. It's never too late to change one's mind (and I say that as someone who spent over 3 years and at least a thousands hours making this video). Personally, I don't want to risk wasting anymore time and money on a story which might not even be worth it, which is why I'm waiting for all the spoilers to come out before I make my final decision.
I've though about what else I could do with my channel, but life has been getting rather busy lately and I don't want to put myself through something so laborious again. If I ever do decide to make another video essay, it will be a long ways off (i.e., years from now), as this is solely a passion project and not something I'd want to make a career out of. But thank you so much for your support and viewership!
@@obsessive_hermit "I've noticed a lot of fans saying that they hated the ending at first but later came around to it after a 2nd or 3rd playthrough and/or after watching some theory videos on RUclips."
i personally never really understood this from fans. it's essentially admitting to being a sheep in a herd. it's telling that you (as in the fans into theory crafting) NEED other people to tell you what to think what will happen. you lack independent thought, and only regurgitate opinions that you hear from the masses. personally, i've always disliked the ending of remake (and this is coming from someone who likes to think of themself as an ff7 devotee who's been through so many playthroughs of the game and its spinoffs), and while i did engage in theory crafting from content creators like Sleepezi even he makes notice that he can't really tell what's going to happen and his videos are all just educated guesses. yet toxic fans seem to ignore that and just go around with saying "BUT MAX DOOD SAID THIS!!! CONTENT CREATOR XYZ SAID THIS!!! THIS INTERVIEW WITH HAMAGUCHI SAID THIS CRYPTID!!!" as if it's all 100% fact when you just can't know until you experience it all yourself and/or have it told to you in retrospect. and it sucks that we have to go through this with people who lack critical thought and can't point out textbook bad storytelling for what it is.
"I skipped a lot of MCU movies wherever I could out of convenience (e.g., I skipped Ant-Man and Ant-Man 2, Captain America: The First Avenger and The Incredible Hulk because they aren't essential to understanding Infinity War and Endgame)."
with how influential the mcu has been on the entertainment industry as whole, a lot of media that's come out post 2010s has always kind of had the idea of just having massive appeal to audiences to tune in and just see things happen on screen. "moving from setpiece to setpiece" as you said in your video. sure, the mcu has always built up a plot, but you're not watching infinity war or endgame to see good story telling come to a close; you're there to see the heroes beat up thanos and other villains. you know the heroes are going to win in the end, so you don't really have much room for telling a good story. and story telling in a lot of action/drama oriented visual media have kind of adopted this sort of direction post mcu. it's probably a good thing actually that you skipped parts of the mcu. i personally didn't really watch much of the mcu given that i caught on way too early that they were just pumping out too much for me to catch up on at such a fast pace (especially during the covid phase 4 era of it, but also beforehand to a lesser extent). it's definitely numbed down the expectations the average consumer of media has for story telling. unfortunately, i fear part of it has also bled into the remake.
they've made quite a lot of questionable changes even before the ending of the story. for example, sephiroth jumpscares you every 30 minutes in the game which is just completely jarring. you even get taken to the "edge of creation" at the end, which tries its hardest to emulate the feeling of cloud finally entering his head to kill sephiroth with an omnislash as he does in the northern crater, and this doesn't even make sense to include now with how cryptic sephiroth is through the entire game. i could go on, but the point is it seems the writers don't really care for the more traditional forms of story telling that the original was known for and instead are catering to "wowwwww! this scene looks so cool! more please more!"
"A general rule when creating entertainment is the following: you've got the most hardcore fans no matter what; they'll still follow your franchise even if you have to drag them kicking and screaming the whole way. ... Don't feel as though you HAVE to love the 7R trilogy and pick up Rebirth simply because of all the time and cash you've already sunk into it. ... If you're not enjoying something, it's best to (at least be willing to) jump ship before even MORE of your time/cash is wasted."
i appreciate the sentiment here for my own sanity. personally, i've mentioned already that i think of myself as an ff7 devotee, so i think by transitivity that makes me a hardcore fan. besides, i genuinely do like the remake for what it does right. sure it does a LOT of things wrong, namely the whole of chapter 18, but i do think that the good for the most part outweighs the bad in this game (to clarify, NOT ALL of the bad, just a good portion of it). at the very least i can say i appreciate some aspects of the remake which disallow me from truly dropping the game. that's kind of what i meant when i said i put in so much time and energy. i worded it poorly, my apologies, but i still do value the time and energy i've put in already and i do think it's been a positive so far. the trailer footage of rebirth and the portion of the demo i played so far also seem like something i'd have a good time with and can see things i enjoy from it. however, that doesn't mean that i don't have my limits.
i've already told my friends that i'd drop the game if, with how they now have creative freedom to do whatever the jenovan hell they want, they decide to vigorously shake up pivotal scenes such as aerith's death i will drop the remake project and maybe even my entire liking to the ff7 subfranchise as a whole then and there. at that point i'd know for a fact the series is long gone from the glory days. instead catering to fanfiction tiers of "omg!!! aerith's alive!!! now cloud and her can make out!!!" THATS NOT WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT AND NEVER WILL BE. i personally really liked the venn diagram at the end of the video talking about sqex staff and how they fare with storytelling. it basically sums up what i want to say here. maybe i'm just a fool for putting blind faith in concept writers and not story tellers, but if they can actually make the payoff worth it i'll stay invested.
"I've though about what else I could do with my channel, but life has been getting rather busy lately and I don't want to put myself through something so laborious again. If I ever do decide to make another video essay, it will be a long ways off (i.e., years from now), as this is solely a passion project and not something I'd want to make a career out of."
do whatever content floats your boat whenever you want! i'll stick around! side note, the cosplay is a genius idea; promoting anonymity while simultaneously giving a more parasocial sense of human connection. i like it!
For me, I felt Remake made Aerith a character I actually wanted to see more of and live. Except for her saying “Shit!” once, she went from a character I cared nothing for in the original to someone I could see everyone falling for.
And while it isn’t a main point of the video, I personally loved FF13 despite still having no idea what the actual story was. I saw the characters grow and change during their journey and didn’t think so much about who they were before they entered the story. But it does feel like nonsense that if I want to try and understand the story or world, I need to read hours of content the writers failed to just express to us while we played.
Well made video, man. Ive also found a way to just be excited about whats happening but damn, I really wanted that true remake
Hey Fletcher Moose, good to see you again! (since you got off Twitter; I envy you for that LOL). Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@obsessive_hermit yeah, mentals are definitely better. Youre one of a handful of individuals whose insights I miss keeping up with, so really glad I saw Orion shouting you out so I could dive into this.
he will never critique a square enix games because he has ties with them
Holy shit after watching hours upon hours of video about how bad FF7 R story came out to be I finally can sum up my huge problem with it. I can understand if some elements of the story was going to be changed. If anything I expected changes as many original elements either wouldn't fly today or wouldn't make sense to be included with how games are made today. What I don't understand in all the wisdom these writers had to create something that would have been amazing even if the story followed the OG how the fuck did including timelines or time travel and even whispers be their brightest idea?! They could have done almost anything, but THIS? Honestly they could have changed things and not included the whispers and I would respect them way more but now they've opened Pandora's box and we can never go back. It will never be removed and like you I have no faith that they'll ever try to remedy it.
Theres 2 continuities for FF7. As per the wiki:
1. The compilation: Before Crisis, Crisis Core, Final Fantasy 7, On a Way to a Smile, Advent Children, and lastly Dirge of Cerberus. The story of these games directly refernce the prior works in its timeline hence canoncity.
2. Remake: Final Fantasy 7 Remake. Rebirth, and the untitled 3rd game. the two cannot overlap due to the blantant impossibilities in the the two timelines. Whispers did not exist in the comp, nor did Cloud knowing who Zack was in midgar, or him knowing that it was he who killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim, Deepground only showed up after meteorfall and the Reactor 0 sealed door was discovered, etc. etc.
Thus i can safely say I dont care what square does in RE trilogy becuase these two timelines do not overlap,
The OG and its sequels will remain viewed in a positive light decades after while the remake will be forgotten mostly by the virtue of bad storytelling.
Incredible effort! Hated the remake, loved OG FF7, great video!
When Tifa says "what will we find on the other side" and Aeris says "freedom. Boundless, terrifying freedom", I take that to mean once the developers make this change, they will be free from the shadow of the original game and all of its fans. A game they will never be able to repeat in greatness.
Yet here we go in Rebirth with them STILL sticking to the original format. This isn't so much a remake (no pun intended, this includes Rebirth as well), where it's more the same with just filler quests to give the illusion of something different
Welcome to the Toxic Positivity Culture of fandom where you must only say positive happy safe-space comments. Otherwise, you'll be labeled a 'purist', a 'hater' or a 'troll' and blocked for simply addressing critical story/character/theme breaking issues.
- Got a problem with how FF7 Remake erased all interesting gray-moral moments (such as relieving all personal responsibility/accountability from Avalanche's actions and shifting it entirely on ShinRa's shoulders... or how Aerith entirely blames Sephiroth for everything that's 'wrong' in this world despite him being a product OF this materialistic Lifestream-dependent world)? Stop complaining, hater! Just play and consume and don't think too much. Why do you have to overcomplicate everything!
- Got a problem with how Remake severely undermined the personal growth/journey each character undertook before finding the strength to fight for the Planet, all in exchange for a rushed unearned fight against Sephiroth? Pft, who cares! Themes are overrated! And OMG SEPHIROTH LOOKS AWESOME!!!! DOESN'T HE LOOK AWESOME??? HERE, HAVE MORE SEPHIROTH. WE NEED HIM TO APPEAR EVERY FIVE SECONDS AND ACT LIKE AN OBSESSED IDIOT INSTEAD OF A MYSTERIOUS TERRIFYING FORCE OF NATURE.
- Got a problem with how boring /repetitive side missions were (the same issue that plagued Crisis Core) or how narrow-pathed the world is or how there was very limited things to do in it (in contrast to the original FF7 letting you interact with tons of NPCs and unlock extra scenes/skills by simply exploring that world)? Blegh, how dare you ask more of a triple AAA budget game, you entitled gamer! Besides, gamers are stupid. They can't be trusted to find this extra content on their own. So here, let me hold your hand and tell you EXACTLY what your next directive is and how to get there.
- Got a problem with how the Remake downright claimed the original FF7 ending was the 'bad' ending and now it's up to Aerith and the gang to 'make it better' (translation: I want the fanfic Disney good ending where no sacrifices need to be made and my husbando/waifu doesn't have to undergo some painful character moments)? Well, you're just mad because you're a Purist! Stop complaining so much. Just enjoy and consume.
- Got a problem with those Kingdom-Hearts Shadows being inconsistent and intervening only during Important-Character-Plot-Armor moments (Barrett not dying) but not with lesser second-rate characters (such as Biggs and Wedge living)? Who cares! You haven't played the other games yet, don't judge yet! And Maxmillion is already hard at work fixing all the fuckups and inconsistencies on behalf of the Remake writers, so there! Didn't you know fandom is there to do the writers' job for them? Duh!
Reality is, not all Remakes are made equal. And just because something is 'changed' doesn't make it automatically 'better'. There is a reason why RoboCop's reboot didn't hit hard. Remakes typically work when they introduce new fresh elements while still maintaining the core structure and mood/themes of the original. FF7 Remake felt like a superficial Time Travel AU fanfic mess. The characters themselves were great. Visuals look amazing. Some of the original tracks got a much-loved makeover (minus Sephiroth's own track, which got TOO bombastic, TOO overblown, and TOO overcomplicated for its own good). The world looks amazing. But all of those things are just the surface. The real meat of FF7 had always been their complicated journey toward redemption.
Each character all had holes to fill within themselves. Each character also realized they couldn't do this on their own. It gave greater meaning and dimension to their fight against Sephiroth. Cloud and the gang all had to 'complete' themselves first, as well as move forward after suffering a personal great loss, before finding the resolve they needed to fight. In this sense, they were fighting 'themselves' when they took on Sephiroth. FF7 is a classic because it wasn't just this fantasy game. It was about teaching us how to move forward, whether it was moving forward from a death of a loved one, moving forward from a dream that was never realized, moving forward from trauma... It's baffling that pixelated characters and badly translated bits still managed more of the human experience than what the Remake gave us.
Remake undermined everything by turning it into a Normua-Kingdom Hearts time-paradox story. 'Fate' plots have a nasty habit of removing character agency (thereby, undermining their hardship/difficult choices). Thus, when bad things happen it no longer feels visceral and powerful but inevitable instead. Worst, in 'time paradox' stories, you waste so much time trying to 'subvert expectations' than telling a story with a natural flow and rhythm. Of course, the greatest offense Remake committed was by downright claiming the original ending was the 'bad' ending. I rolled my eyes and hated Aerith so much during the last chapters. It sucked because, up until that point, I absolutely loved her. However, I couldn't stand the explicit claims being made when she told everyone that the visions they were seeing was what would happen 'if they failed'. Like, bitch, you're essentially saying the hard road they took and sacrifices made to save the planet was a 'failure'. Exactly what is 'success' in your eyes? That NO sacrifices need to be made? Everyone gets to live happily ever after and Sephiroth dies? A Disney cookie-cutter finale?
This was the other big issue the Remake introduced once they decided to clearly draw the line between who was the 'good guy' and who was the 'bad guy'. The beauty of the original FF7 rested in its morally gray ambiguity. The Planet Weapons themselves destroyed without prejudice: you mess with the planet and your ass is toast, regardless if you're fighting Sephiroth. What a lotta Remake apologists fail to realize is the Planet was ALREADY SCREWED - regardless of Sephiroth being there or not. Hell, Crisis Core's remake drives home this point with plenty of environmentalist activists rightfully pointing the finger at ShinRa and telling Zack they're doomed. Ironically, it took a force of nature (Sephiroth) to advertently change this fate. Through HIS actions, the true culprit behind the Planet's deterioration got stabbed to death, Shin-Ra collapsed with Meteor, and a chain of events that led to Cloud & party saving the Planet was set into motion.
It's important to note, the Planet in the original game acted as a neutral entity (neither benevolent nor malevolent). It didn't pick any sides and willingly accepted whatever fate befell on it, even in its suffering. It was only through Aerith's sacrifice, along with Cloud and his party's determination, that the Planet finally intervened. The ending with the stream covering the Planet still makes me cry. It wasn't because everyone was saved, but because all the hard work Aerith and Cloud and everyone did resulted in this. Aerith, Cloud and everyone PROVED to the Planet, through their selfless actions, that the human world WAS worth saving. They EARNED their salvation. Seeing the Planet act impartial up to this point but finally RESPOND made it an extra emotional experience for me. Unfortunately, a sacrifice was still needed to answer for the sins of humankind. Someone had to pay the debt and that 'someone' was unfortunately Aerith.
That's why Remake Aerith's words at the end of Remake pissed me off so much. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to avoid the painful road ahead, despite that painful road being a direct consequence for everyone's negligence and ignorance. She wants to blame Sephiroth for 'everything wrong' in this Planet, when in reality, he is a PRODUCT of this world's sins. Him rising from the ashes and 'refusing to be a memory' is karma for all the evil humankind did to itself. There wouldn't be a Jenova Project in the first place if there weren't greedy ass humans wanting more mako. But here, too, the Remake writers REFUSE to acknowledge this morally gray area. They NEED Sephiroth to be the big baddie, so they have Aerith explicitly tell everyone that the Planet recognizes him as the true evil one.
I realize now most of my grievances comes down to the dip in writing quality over the decades - not just in FF7 but everywhere else too. The generation of Participation Trophy Winners truly gave rise to writers who... can't write complex things anymore. Nor can they trust their audience to think for themselves. They stick to safe and predictable story elements and constantly hold our hand, explicitly pointing to who the 'bad guys' and 'good guys' while also expecting us not to ask too many questions. That's what it felt like playing Remake.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here except your opinion on OWA Rebirth, i like how chaotic it is and i find it interesting but it's far from my favorite version of the song(Advent Children OWA is my favorite song of all time and i say that as someone that hear a lot of music from many different genres but that song just hits everything right for me and Sephiroth is my favorite character so it also mixes up), and well, the FF7 Rebirth version of OWA was kind of better and closer to the original one.
Well, the way i see FF7R is that if it was an original story i'd not have many issues with it, it's a nice JRPG story with amazing characters and a charismatic villain, great gameplay, music and etc. But as a fan of the Original game that loves its themes and etc. I feel extremely dissapointed at how Remake dumbs down most of what made the original story deep in order to make it more palatable to the modern trends alongside the writting style that Nomura and the rest of the team involved adopted with years(which is inferior to what they did in the past and you can see that at how FF7R is the only highly acclaimed thing they did in the last years and what lead to these praises it's the things they kept from the original story and what people criticize it's what they decided to "subvert").
Your comment pretty much already said everything but i'd also like to add how much they fucked up Sephiroth on it, even more on Rebirth. I feel like Square took the "Sephiroth stalking Cloud" memes so seriously that they made it his whole character to the point of it looking like he is his crazy yandere ex instead of a force of nature that fucks up Cloud's mind to achieve his higher goal, i like the whole "Sephiroth is a ghost haunting Cloud even afther his death" thing from AC, in fact it's one of the reasons why i like the character so much, even more considering the things you mentioned like how Sephiroth is a consequence from humanity's greed to begin with, but in Remake he speaks and acts like your average Organization XIII member and the creepy ex thing in detriment of his original mysterious villain thing which made him so iconic, his presentation on Remake is way too overplayed and on Rebirth they made these things even worse, especially on the ending where he was clearly not holding back like on Remake, so Cloud and Aerith kick his ass and he flies away, like man, some of what made Sephiroth great was how he always felt stronger and beyond you on the OG now he's just an average edgy villain that afther losing for the second time he will appear with a stronger form on Part 3 but the others will kick his ass again, at this rate he's barely special as he was before, he's just a cool villain now...
In the end i think that FF7R while it does a lot of things better regarding the characters and most of it, whatever it has to adress the more complex, subjective and deep themes/things from the original game it dumbs down to the level of your average JRPG/Shounen-Anime/Comic-Book level or just does it inferior than the original(NOT ALWAYS, but the fact that they did it in most of the most important parts of the original story like Aerith's death...), and again, i'd not be bothered by it half as much if it wasn't a Remake from the OG FF7, and honestly it's really sad how modern media struggles with similiar or way worse stuff than this in general nowadays.
I don’t think the gray moral standing of avalanche is really that changed? They still think the damage done was theirs, they just don’t know it isn’t. They sulk and wonder a lot, and Tifa in particular sulks over it ALL the time.
Aerith doesn’t blames everything on Sephiroth and, if anything, a lot of that blame is directed to Hojo.
And Sephiroth appearing all the time is clearly an indication of the time traveling/multiverse shenanigans. His place in the story remains somewhat similar, just more present from the beginning. The original FF7 has Sephiroth talking, controlling, and stalking Cloud from the beginning but Cloud isn’t that far from a black coated guy. The difference really is that Sephiroth is more obsessive about it, and in return so is Cloud, in areas of the game in which Sephiroth is never mentioned. You can dislike it but I think you’re taking credit away from it
The short end of it is, Remake/Rebirth is being that thing Tifa called Barret back on the Shinra Tower Stairway.
@@commandervile394 I literally had to look up the dialogues and Tifa is just super nice like always 😭
Subbed, and I fully agree. This was an amazingly eloquent critique!
I was actually fairly lenient on Remake originally just because I was so tired of Square being... awful. Remake at least felt like the characters had personalities, which was refreshing after... well, everything post X practically. (I started with the series as a little kid in 1991 with FF4, so I was there before, during, and after the "golden age"). I've been fighting people on the Internet since my high school days (Hi, Chrono Cross, you overdramatic overdressed vapid skin-walker of a game!), and I suppose when Remake came out, I was tired. It was also Covid time and I was going through a mental health crisis, so I let a lot about the ending slide that I normally would have NEVER done. It was silly, but I opened my heart hoping I wouldn't be burned again.
Then... Rebirth burned me. Hard. I beat it last week and I've been trying to process how in the world modern SE could botch so completely one of the most poignant scenes in all of gaming. All of the faith they had built up by actually writing the characters as people and not weird pod people was lost in an instant. I'm not sure if I have it in me to play the 3rd game.
I'm really sorry for what you've had to go through. Your experience with Rebirth's ending mirrors how I felt after beating Remake's. Almost everything that Toriyama, Nomura, Nojima and Kitase have written since FFX has been seriously flawed, yet I was optimistic about Remake because it was based on an existing story. I didn't think they could possibly fuck it up. And yet they did anyway. It's interesting that you mentioned Chrono Cross. I wasn't able to thoroughly detail this in the video, but FF7 Remake and Rebirth both feel as though the developers thoughtlessly took the worst, most-hated story elements from Chrono Cross, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and forced them into FF7.
I knew Rebirth's ending would be a disaster from the moment we learned the game would end at the Forgotten City, because tone-wise, it's an AWFUL place to put an interdimensional boss rush (it's like installing roulette wheels, slot machines and poker tables in a church during a funeral service).
Tonally, it's also a terrible place to put a confusing, mystery box-style cliffhanger because the scene is meant to be tragic and devastating, but devastation and confusion are INCOMPATIBLE EMOTIONS. In order to be emotionally devastated/surprised by something, the audience needs to have enough context to UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT HAPPENS. If you just refuse to answer what is going on in the first place, the audience will not feel devastated because they'll be too busy scrambling to put the pieces all together.
You'll often hear defenders say that the point of Rebirth's ending was to play up Cloud's insanity/denial even more, supposedly because they're building up to a new plot twist when the Lifestream scene happens in Part 3. (E.g., that the ambiguity of Aerith's "death" is meant to aggravate Cloud's fractured psyche and create intrigue, which will ostensibly payoff when he and Tifa fall into the Lifetstream in Part 3 and finally learn the truth of what is going on with him, Aerith, Zack and the multiverse.)
RUclipsr Sub_TXT explained this in his video on why FF7R is spoiling the original game's twists, and the short of it is that: the developers want to recreate the surprise twist in the lifestream scene, but because that twist is now common knolwedge, they have to go even further this time--Cloud's "unreliable narrator" schtick won't work anymore, so they're now making THE WORLD OF GAIA ITSELF unreliable--by adding multiverses/time-travel and conflating them with Cloud's hallucinations, they are making THE ENTIRE WORLD unreliable--it's impossible to tell what can or cannot happen in the world of Gaia, and thus, it's impossible to predict where the story will go: we can't trust anything we're seeing on-screen because they could just be alternate universes; we don't know what truly matters because the lore/rules of the world are in a persistent state of ambiguity/flux--everything may be subject to change in Part 3.
Basically, the writers are making up the rules for how the time-travel/multiverse/lifestream stuff works as they go along; playing it by ear and changing the rules depending on how close the theory-crafters get to figuring it out ahead of time.
Again, this is just a theory, but if it's true, then therein lies the problem: Remake and Rebirth are sacrificing the emotional weight and tension of the original game's story, just for the sake of artificially propping up a new version of the Lifestream twist.
The problem with this "unreliable world" narrative is that it makes it impossible to tell what MATTERS from what DOESN'T. You can't get invested in the overarching conflict if you don't know what the rules are; you can't tell what's even at stake when there's no clear indication of what is/is not possible in the story's world.
You can't tell a riveting story about "saving the planet from destruction" when the planet ITSELF is an omnipotent cop-out which can do ANYTHING the writers arbitrarily need it to, with no warning; you can't feel devastated by a character's death when, for all you know, timeline fuckery could bring them back from the dead, etc.
Simply put: the writers are sacrificing SO MUCH which made the original game so emotionally intense--the momentum, the lore, the magic system, the pacing, the weight of Aerith's death, and (above all) THE CONFLICT--JUST so that they can recreate the shock factor of the Lifestream scene. The developers are so OBSESSED with trying to make the new Lifestream scene impossible to predict, that they are just refusing to TELL us anything about how the world of Gaia now operates (e.g., "we can't explain how the timeline fuckery works, or the theory-crafters will figure the story out before Part 3 releases.")
That, I think, is the problem with the 7R trilogy: we fans loved the original game mainly because of how emotionally intense and impactful it was, and yet the developers are sacrificing most of that emotional weight, merely to recreate the shock factor of JUST ONE, SINGLE PART of the story.
Personally, when it comes to what I look for in story-telling, being surprised is the least of my concerns. The thing I value most in storytelling (and which I loved most about the OG) is CONFLICT. Conflict is the soul of storytelling; it's the only reason why ANYTHING that happens in a given story is emotionally engaging. I would rather have a story which is emotionally intense but predictable, than a story which is unpredictable but has no dramatic weight or tension.
I want to be on the edge of my seat; immersed in the world; rooting for the characters; afraid of the villain; sympathizing with the characters who are suffering; I want to feel catharsis; satisfied when the heroes DO finally prevail despite all odds being stacked against them (even if I already know or can tell where the story is headed).
That is not possible when the writers are flat-out refusing to tell me what (if anything) even MATTERS in the story.
This (along with the multiverse hokum) is what finally led me to conclude that the 7R trilogy will never be for me, and why I will never play Rebirth or Part 3.
If it's any consolation, lately I've been replaying the original game with mods installed, including: New Threat 2.0 (combat only), ReMusic, Ninostyle character models, environmental overhauls, AI-enhanced FMVs and backgrounds, Project Edge backgrounds, new sound effects, UI changes, Shinra Archeology's retranslation, some gameplay tweaks and more. It's REALLY damn good, and I can't wait to see what else the modders do as time goes on.
Yes, it's sad that fans like you and I will never get a truly faithful adaptation of the original game's story with the 7R trilogy's tech. and production budget, but I think we should take what we can get. I really hope that one day, someone can take FMVs and voice acting from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once said trilogy is finished).
oh come on, chrono cross wasnt that bad. i really enjoyed playing it back in the day, hunting down all the secret characters and their lore was fun. At least it wasn't trying to pretend to be a sequel or remake of chrono trigger. it was its own thing, with little connection to chrono trigger.
@@tylerdurden7965 That's fair. The three biggest issues with Chrono Cross are 1) the second half of the game is a MASSIVE exposition dump with too many new and rushed plot devices, 2) it kills off a few characters from CT off-screen for seemingly no reason other than shock value, and 3) the part at the end where the timelines "merge together" is not sufficiently explained. How can alternate universes with their own mutually exclusive histories and events merge together? Was one universe destroyed but certain characters and events were physically transported over to the "main universe"?
Beyond those issues however, I agree with you. I can appreciate the fact that Chrono Cross wasn't trying to be a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger; it's detached enough that it doesn't take away from the legacy of CT; fans of CT can easily ignore most of CC's problems and enjoy the game as its own thing. Whereas FF7R feels like it's overshadowing/undermining the OG.
@@obsessive_hermit man, I haven't played chrono cross in so long... I can't even remember much about the plot anymore lol. I do remember enjoying it back when I was young though, I remember there being a few chrono trigger easter eggs that were fun to find too.
Very similar experience, Remake to me was a nice blockbuster experience during the height of COVID that was a welcome relief from the lockdowns and confusion of the early pandemic.
I was way too optimistic about the ending of Remake, thought hey maybe they can run with these new ideas, only to face the slow burn of disappointment as Rebirth lurched from one misguided set piece to another, finally finishing with a convoluted messy bang with the multiverse shenanigans at the end.
There's one thing of not wanting to retread old ground as a creative, but you still have to adhere to basic storytelling beats, pacing and payoffs which none of Rebirth's key moments did for me. Either they were overstuffed with too much going on (Aerith lying dead on the floor whilst a bunch of whispers floated around aimlessly was the pinnacle of this), introduced too many concepts too late (I counted at least 4 separate realities in the last act alone) or just plain old didn't allow us to sit with the emotion due to the direction of the cutscenes (the car chase after Dyne's fight). Unfortunately I don't think the current Square creative team have that within them to retell anything interestingly and have ended up in a weird feedback loop between them as to what they think actually works for the game, which apparently is just mystery box BS.
They made a 60 hour game focused only on Midgar, yet they only showed the exact same sectors that thry had in the original game in which that same midgar section took 3 to 5 hours. Thats so crazy to me.
Really enjoy this essay. You are certainly very thoughtful in your approach, and I appreciate that you have ingested a great deal of the other content that has been produced by your peers and woven it into your own take. I see in other comments that you've decided not to play Rebirth, but I really hope you do, and that you produce another 3+ hour breakdown of it that can not only break down Rebirth itself but recontextualize some of this video as well (and by the same token, Part 3 will be necessary in order to fully contextualize much of Rebirth).
Thanks for the positive feedback :) I'm sure many would like to hear my thoughts on Rebirth and Part 3, but I've honestly lost passion for the FF7R trilogy now. Part of the reason why I made this video was to provide solace to those who were as disappointed as I was, and also as a means of coming to terms with my grief (this is called "Writing Therapy").
It seems to have worked for me, though mainly because I just don't care much about this series anymore. I have absolutely ZERO interest in an "FFVII Multiverse," and yet, that's the route they're going with this.
This video alone took me 3 years and thousands of hours to make, and while I have found means of expediating the process, I don't want to do another project of this scale unless it's a subject which I am deeply passionate about. Now that I have overcome the grief which FF7R caused me, I feel almost nothing but APATHY towards the FF7R trilogy, and I really don't think there's anything Square Enix can possibly do to convince me that Part 2 and 3 will be a worthwhile way to spend my time (let alone making a 3-hour video essay critiquing it).
The realization which I have sadly come to is: the things which I loved most about the original FFVII have not been (and are not going to be) retained in this trilogy. What I love about FFVII (and about storytelling, more generally) has been irreparably undermined by all these metatextual elements and bad superhero comic book tropes which they're adding to the 7R project.
It's gotten to the point where, on Twitter, I have unfollowed a large number of accounts and blocked a large number of terms relating to FFVII (e.g., Cloti, Clerith, Aerith, Tifa, Sephiroth, Costa del Sol, Junon, Gold Saucer, Terrier timeline, Beagle timeline, etc.), because I honestly just don't want to see them anymore (not very much, anyway). And my home page has been better off for it.
So I think I'll just stick to the OG with mods. If nothing else, I would LOVE to see the modders take music and voice lines from the Remake trilogy and mod them into the OG (once the trilogy is finished, that is).
If any other FF7 content creators invite me onto a podcast or something, I will happily explain my thoughts on FFVII in more detail - what I loved about the OG and what has been lost in Remake and Rebirth. But until/unless that happens, I think it's time for me to move on.
I recently played Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice and absolutely LOVED it, and I finally just started Bioshock.
You and my son had the same reaction to the ending of Remake, which is the opposite of mine.
A little background.
Final Fantasy 7 is my favorite game ever. I was waiting in line for the day it released. The store where I preordered the game was the highest selling store in the Bay Area California so I believe Sony gave everyone waiting in line a random FF7 figure…I got Aeris.
My son and I have played the original over 100 times.
He was 2 when the game came out and the original is also his favorite game of all time.
I remember how excited I was when square finally announced they were working on the remake.
But my excitement quickly vanished when they announced it would be divided into several parts.
I thought that square was a greedy company trying to squeeze all the money they could from fans and I also feared that they could screw up in any of the parts and worst that it would take so long that I would be playing the game on different system generations.
It seems I’ll be right on all 3.
Even though I’m a big FF7 fan I decided not to buy the game, but I got it as a birthday present.
I played the game and I wasn’t having fun. The game looked amazing, the character models were awesome and the music was great.
But the quests were boring/dull, the world felt confined and I hated how story elements were changed.
Like Cloud seeing Sephiroth at random times…I thought to myself why are we seeing this so early?
I also didn’t understand how Aeris knew so much, it made no sense to me.
I felt Tifa didn’t feel as good of character because Jessie felt more fun than Tifa…except for her over the top Cloud infatuation.
I hated the whispers I didn’t understand the need for these things to be in the game. I specially hated how sometimes their actions didn’t make sense.
I remember just wanting to finish the game just to see if there was a reason for all the crap that was happening.
Don’t get me wrong there were some cool parts but overall I was just not having fun.
I remembered how happy I was when I finished the game and saw the ending.
The son that also loves FF7 didn’t have any reservations about getting the game, he actually got the limited edition.
My son and I talked about how we felt about the game and the ending.
He enjoyed the game, hated Jessie and was ready to give it a high score until the end.
He felt the ending ruined everything. Zack is one of his favorite characters and he wasn’t happy that they changed his fate and that Remake ending hurt not only the original but also crisis core.
I told him that for me it felt like a chore playing the game, how bad the padding was, how dumb some puzzles were…like the sun lights puzzle.
I haven’t replayed Remake because I can’t see myself doing that puzzle again.
The reason I like the ending and this is what I told my son.
This Final Fantasy 7 is not my Final Fantasy.
This one is some kind of multiverse kinda crap.
Is easy to get to that conclusion, if you have played the original and seen advent children.
Remake multiverse somehow knows or can see what happens in the original and at the same time is also connecting with part of the movie.
Like Sephiroth fight, some of the fighting is taken from Advent Children.
And finally seeing Zack alive is just like the final thing that proves this was some multiverse crap.
Personally I hate that SquareEnix lie to me. The promise a remake and this is not it.
I have no problem if the wanted to make something else, but they could had been more forthcoming and honest about it.
The could had just called it FF7 v.2 and I would have been fine because I would have been expecting something different and not a remake like I always wanted.
Besides Remake makes it hard to take Rebirth seriously.
I decided not to get Rebirth but my son did even though he doesn’t have a PS5.
Like I said is hard to take Rebirth serious when I already know who’s Sephiroth, I had no problem dealing with his mind games, not only did I already defeated the whispers god thing, but I also defeated Sephiroth.
How can they expect me to feel threatened by the Turks? Or the dumb swamp snake? Or even Sephiroth…that’s the biggest problem with Remake.
We already faced worst things.
I already wrote 2 much. Sorry to anyone that read all of this.
I felt the same about the story, but honestly I'd have bought Rebirth to see where they went if they improved the gameplay. All the padding and slow paced moments drove me insane (took me 3 attempts to actually push through the tedium). But it looks like they just doubled down on the padding. So I've checked out videos of Rebirth instead and I'm so happy I didn't pay money for that swill. They could have stuck to the plot or gone wild. They've tried both and succeeded at neither.
Having to continually pause the video to read some of your dissertation-length footnotes was exhausting enough that my eyes just began glazing over... lmao
Yeah, sorry about that LOL. There’s only so much I could fit in the video and I had to be as exhaustive/pre-emptive as possible.
Man you must struggle to read a real book
Great video. Like another commenter here said it’s comforting to hear other people share the same sentiment. Reddit is a hot mess for this topic.
I never played FFXIII-2, but that scene around the 1 hour and 45 minutes mark had the villain say chaos so many times in succession I almost thought he was Jack Garland.
THE CHAOS WAS SO THICK I COULD SMELL IT!
Another big problem of destroying the destiny of fate is it was completely pointless. Reverse the still following along the original game with subtle changes of scenes in areas. You still go to the golden salsa you still busy iconic places at the original game followed nothing changed for the most part
Robot Co-Op was on Point.
Dyne’s death was literally my only gauge of this game….. When they said Gold Saucer, I thought DYNE…. And they fucked it up, so…. Aeris death will not happen properly, so FUCK ENIX!!!!!
when dyne turned into the wesker boss from RE5 in the volcano i zoned out lmao
@@lebrunjemz687..say wut now?
@@JesseHenderson-xc2kgyeah, he starts magnetizing a bunch of metal to his arm and now you fight Dyne with a big metal arm
@@sanox15 please say sike....
@@JesseHenderson-xc2kg I can, but it won't change anything :(
Am I the only one who thought at first that was a White Peak cosplay and not Makoto Shishio? Awesome video
@54:50 yes it's basically Rebuild.
Bro, amazing video. Took me about 3 sessions to finish it but damn, thats some good work you did there. Thank you. Subbed. I hope you refrain from your decision to wait 5 years to comeback. I'm really looking forward for your next essay.
You really summarized all my thoughts and frustrations.
I can appreciate all the effort you put in the video and presentation. good work.
Shit, Shishio is doing game essays now
Every word you said is exactly what i had in mind, even from the very first remake i already have no trust in a faithful story telling from SE. I lost my trust in this series from FFXIII
Great video with many fair points! I’m also one who was okay with changes,but not BAD changes. like most of the new additions they take away from the story unfortunately such as multiverse/time travel mumbo jumbo (which is really played out by now btw), everybody lives, and spoiling future plot points just ruins the whole point of Ff vii. so I will watch rebirth cutscenes on RUclips to see how much they butchered the story before I buy the next part 😂 cus I’m not spending money on a bad story which is why I play these games. I’m curious like most of us which is why I’m still somewhat invested, but I think they wrote themselves into a corner with the random baffling ending so I will be surprised if they can salvage that mess
I understand not wanting to spend a full 70 dollars, but there is still merit to experience an art piece the way it is intended to be experienced. Watching Dune on an airplane with a baby crying next to you and only one ear bud working probably isn't the intended experience. Just don't write off an artistic work when you haven't had the full intended experience is all I'm saying.
@@Radriar___9946nope not spending full price on a bad story so I’m still doing the RUclips cutscenes for free to see how much of a train wreck it is 😂 but if it’s a good story I want to see through I will support the developers and buy a copy simple. I don’t owe square enix anything 😂 with squares history the last 20 or so years of bad stories (including the new additions to vii remake) it’s their turn to woo me the customer to make a good product I want to buy. In a STORY driven game like the final fantasy franchise if the story isn’t good then there isn’t much of a point
@@nexusstep I get it man it’s your money and games are expensive. It seems you’ve already made up your mind on the game being bad. All I’m saying is playing a game is different than watching a game.
@@Radriar___9946oh trust me I know I prefer playing the game as supposed to just watching it 100% and I’m not set on it being bad I’m actually hoping it’s good since I love this franchise and want the best for it but honestly the new additions so far are just dog water bro, no one can look me dead serious in the eyes and tell me this new story is better than the old one…I’m sorry they are in the same train of pointless/bad additions that are super invasive to the overall story along the same lines with genesis and dirge of Cerberus etc 😂 so I’m welcome to be proven wrong if they turn it around and stop the cringe multiverse/time travel mumbo jumbo but my hopes aren’t super high. I can spend my money on instead on stories that are actually good like persona series for example lol
@@nexusstep yeah remake FOR SURE has problems, but it also does things better than the original too. The plate fall scene was way better in the original, but wallmarket was better in Remake. You kinda just have to take the good with the bad. As far as the new story stuff goes I really don’t like that Zack is alive and if he meets up with the party I think that would be a disaster, but I think people have been to quick to make up their minds when we haven’t even seen the payoff for a lot of these new story beats. You have every right to be skeptical, but the developers (for me personally l) seem to have a deep understanding of what makes FF7 special so I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for know. Much love brother!
I must say, despite me personally enjoying the ending on my first playthrough for my own reasons, I must say this video was incredibly well made, respectful, brought up alot of interesting/good points and was highly thought provoking for how I see the remakes story. It didnt instantly change my mind but it definitely makes me want to replay the game to really see how I'd feel about the story now as a fan of final fantasy 7 in general. Regardless of whether my thoughts remain or change I still have to give you credit for such a well done analysis, you deserve much more attention and if you continue making videos I'm definitely going to come back to see what you do next. Great work man
Thank you very much and for being so respectful! As I said at the end: 'Even if you didn't come to agree with me, hopefully you can still understand.'
Sephiroth: "And then you Nort a boy."
Cloud: "What did you just say?"
Sephiroth: "Nothing, nothing. Just ignore me."
"I'd rather be shot down and burned again by Ishin Shishi than play this game again"- Shishio Makoto
I have only watched 1 minute of this video and I know it's gonna be great. Love seeing critiques of FF7R.
Very good breakdown. After the ending of both this and rebirth I found this video to be therapeutic. I look forward to anything you put out next
I can say I subbed on ur first vid ayyyyy. Can't wait for another
Thank you! It'll be a LONG time before I get around to making another vid, cause this channel is solely a passion project and I have a rather busy life. But thanks for the sub!
So... i gotta ask... what drink did you make at the end? post the recipe? lol
It's a Velvet Hammer. The drink is:
1/6 Tia Maria
1/6 Cointreau
1/6 Creme de Cacao
1/6 Grand Marnier Liqueur
1/3 Heavy Cream (e.g., 18%)
@@obsessive_hermit damn that's a expensive drink lol, thanks for sharing. Might give it a try someday 😉
@@obsessive_hermit Hey lol, so i been wanting to try this recipe for awhile now. But im confused about the measurements, can you explain the recipe in terms of ounces? 🙏
@@tylerdurden7965To make approx. 3 cups worth of Velvet Hammers, you need 1.5 oz. of Tia Maria, Cointreau, Creme de Cacao and Grand Marnier Liqueur (that's 1.5 oz. of EACH; totaling up to 6 oz. combined). Then you need 3 oz. of the Heavy Cream. Mix well in a drink mixer with about 3 ice cubes.
@@obsessive_hermit thank you! 😁
I hate what they did to Sephiroth, he's basically just become FF Majima, except way less likeable.
NEVER play Rebirth then... It taints the most IMPORTANT scene of OG FF7 and left me in total disbelieve
It made me almost *RAGE*
Ps. Great Video with strong points, maybe a bit too long though for a Remake Series that is not Worth our Time
That easy allies thing was just annoying because they talked about it as if they knew what was going to happen despite the fact one actually knows.
The strangest argument (I think it was an argument) was "I hated OG FF VII! The remake was better!"
Which if that's the case, why play a remake of *a game you hate?* The paint and name of Final Fantasy VII must mean something.
They want the clout and popularity of having experienced videogame history without actually engaging with that history.
Games are prestigious experiences now. It's mind blowing.
The people who say this did not get into FFVII because of the original game. They invariably got into FFVII through the Compilation spinoffs, fanfiction, or fan-made music videos on RUclips. They don't care for the original game because the Compilation appeals to people for very different reasons than the OG did. E.g., Playing Crisis Core first + fanfiction is the reason why some people prefer Zack over Cloud and wish the former was the hero of the OG's story.
47:53 why couldn't sephiroth just destroy the arbiters of fate instead of tricking the party to fight it? lol, makes no sense, party beats sephiroth in the end of game before fighting this boss right? sephiroth would be as strong enough to beat the whispers
This video has been very well researched and I appreciate the timeline of events, including debunking alot of talking points FF7R fans use.
I share your sentiments and like many, I really wanted to enjoy the remake, but the bad is so bad and the timeline splitting is so jarring that I can't enjoy the nosltagic elements and even the new elements because the whispers are always lurking beyond the surface.
You know what I loved about the first 10 Final Fantasy games??
They all had simple themes to them that made them work.
FF 1 was about heroism
FF 2 was about rebellion
FF 3 was about magic
FF 4 was about war
FF 5 was about fate
FF 6 was about hope
FF 7 was about life
FF 8 was about time
FF 9 was about death
FF X was about dreams
FF XII was about politics
FF XV was about brotherhood/commitment
I did like FF XII and FF XV too by the way
All of them made people easily connect with them.
I don't think it's necessarily a matter of the themes being simple. I actually disagree on your assessment of what the themes for each of those games are.
Rather: it's about being HUMAN-RELATABLE - If you want people to enjoy your story, the themes have to be "evolutionarily familiar" (this is a term used by some evolutionary psychologists).
For example, I'd argue that FFV isn't so much about "fate" as it is about legacy: the desire to pass on one's values and wisdom and create a better world for the next generation. This is something which most people (especially older people) can relate to, because passing wisdom onto our children and trying to change the world for the better is a HUGE motivator of human beliefs and behaviour (see: "Terror Management Theory").
Likewise, FFVI is about love and all its forms, be they familial, romantic, or friendly; that to love and be loved is what makes life worth living. Contrast that with Kefka; how he's a sociopathic nihilistic with no one to love or be loved by. Again, as social beings, this is a theme we - as humans - can relate to.
FFVII is about the immaterial value of life: the conflict between those who believe that life has a special/sacred value vs. soulless materialists who believe that everything should be nitpicked for personal gain (at the expense of our long-term well-being and sense of purpose in life). This is seen most obviously in Avalanche vs Shinra, but it's also seen in the Planet/Aerith vs JENOVA, Cloud gaining friends and humility while Sephiroth becomes more of a friendless monster with a god complex, etc. (As an added bonus: JENOVA is an alien invader, which is also relatable to us because invasion by outsiders was an ever-looming threat for most peoples throughout human history).
FFX is about how the conflict between personal desires and societal obligations; how we each have both roles/duties to be fulfilled, but should also question certain traditions which may be harmful or built on lies. Again, human beings evolved for religion and group cooperation, but we also have our own dreams and interests which we want to fulfill: we need to find balance between the two.
FFXV is about the rite of passage from boyhood to manhood (childhood to adulthood), and the burden that it entails. Fortunately however, you don't have to go it alone (because your friends are there, maturing alongside you).
These are all themes which we can relate to at a deep, evolutionary level.
Altering the spacetime continuum and trying to stop someone from trying to merge infinite alternate universes together IS NOT.
Yes, you can understand such concepts at an INTELLECTUAL level, but they fall emotionally flat because they're not evolutionarily familiar to us. You understand the words being said, but you don't FEEL much (if anything).
This is why the best stories which involve fate, time-travel and alternate universes DO NOT FOCUS on the quantum mechanics or astrophysics-side of the issues.
Back to the Future, as I said in the video, is not ABOUT time-travel: it's about a teenage boy who gets lost in an alien environment and desperately wants to get back home, but he only has ONE chance to do so, as well as get has parents back together so that he doesn't cease to exist (which is tantamount to death, as far as we can understand nonexistence). These are themes which we can relate to, and the question of "What were my parents like when they were my age?" is a question which we all ponder at some point - Marty gets to see them firsthand (and he helps them to be better people in the process).
Everything, Everywhere, All at Once is about existentialism: finding meaning in life even when "cursed with knowledge" - Jobu Tupaki feels that life is meaningless because the multiverse strips all life of unique value; Evelyn learns that the best way to live/cope with this is by focusing mainly on YOUR OWN WORLD/UNIVERSE; accepting what you have and being a better person to those around you, rather than wishing that everything was completely different and better-suited to YOU.
@@obsessive_hermit Interesting 🤔 I really like your assessment and how you explained your point of view with how you see every Final Fantasy game.
That’s what I love about crossing paths with other Final Fantasy fans, you gain some more knowledge from them, pass knowledge onto them from yourself, learn more things together through theorizing, and just telling each other your favorite parts of whichever FF game.
I been a fan of the series since the 1990’s, way back when I first played Final Fantasy II on SNES which is really FF IV, and then I found & bought Final Fantasy III which is really FF VI and I fell in love with the entire franchise from there, and it was really FF VI that did it for me.
I still have both physical SNES copies too, and to this day Final Fantasy VI is my favorite video game of all time, my number 1, and yes I have played a crap ton of video games since childhood to now in my 40 years on this planet.
One reason why I always say that the main theme of FF VI was HOPE is because of many factors throughout the game.
The empire being an oppressive force beating down everyone on the planet into submission with their power, yet a few people put together the returners rebellion & had just a small number of members in it, yet Banon, Edgar and others had HOPE that they would win the day in the war against the empire.
Then every character had their chance in the story where HOPE played a major part, Terra believing she could be accepted by regular human people to be an ally to them, and later talking care of orphaned children and giving them some type of hope for their future in a bleak world where they lost their parents & all adults in their lives.
Cyan hoping that one day he would have revenge against Kefka and the empire for what they did to his wife and child and his kingdom.
Edgar hoping that he would be a great King to his people in Figaro, as well as a good member of the Returners.
I could go on with the rest of them including Locke my favorite character lol 😆
Hoping that he could keep his promise to Rachel and then Celes.
Then the main story of the world of ruin after Kefka changes everything, after that, everything seems hopeless and Celes even does the unthinkable sadly, yet something keeps her from truly ending, & that one Seagull with Locke’s bandana on it gives her HOPE, hope to get up and go out into that new hopeless torn up world & search for Locke and the rest of her friends, and when she finds them one by one, her hope grows more and more to the point to where she and everyone else feel that they can challenge Kefka who was very OP in the story at that point in time and ruled over the new destroyed world.
Kefka even says this
Hope, Dreams, Love, where do they all come from and where do they go??
I will destroy them all!!
I can also agree with you when you see LOVE as the main theme of FF VI because there is a lot of characters in the game motivated by LOVE, and it is one of the main things that Kefka wanted to destroy, along with HOPE & DREAMS.
A lot of people that I talked to who are fans of FF VI and other FF games have interpreted them their own way & found their own meaning in them, and their are some that surely agree with us too.
Although I will admit, I still struggled from time to time to find & place a good theme on FF X, I ended up going with dreams because a majority of the game is about them being used and experienced ala Zanarkand/Tidus, the Faith.
Each FF game sure is an experience though, that’s for sure.
Just leaving a comment on this video to show support for everything you've said. Time travel trope needs to die in storytelling and they really dropped the ball with what could have been one of the greatest remake trilogies of all time. Instead, they just went "HERE'S WHY TIME TRAVEL MAKES SENSE GUYS. YOU LIKE IT RIGHT?" RIP FF7 remake trilogy. You done effed it up. FF7 Rebirth only proved what this video talked about right even further, cementing the second an add-on to the failure.
Time-travel and multiverses are fine if the franchise in question is established to have them from the very beginning (e.g., they've been pervasive in superhero comic books for decades, and Everything Everywhere All at Once was upfront about being a multiverse story). They only tend to become a problem when they're ADDED to a franchise which has already been running for a long time without them, because when that happens, it's a sign that the writer is contriving a way out of a corner they've written themselves into (e.g., "we fucked up the series' continuity, so we'll just use alternate universes to 'fix' (i.e., handwave) every continuity error.").
But that's the writing equivalent of trying to fill in a bunch of small holes in your garden using the dirt that you'd get from digging up a much bigger, deeper hole right in the center of it. USEFUL TIP FOR FICTION WRITERS: if you have been written into a corner and you feel that a multiverse/time-travel is THE ONLY WAY OUT, you have ALREADY lost.
Glad you enjoyed the video! And yeah, Rebirth has only made things worse, so I won't be buying it. There are other, better ways to spend my time.
"Everybody knows who Sephiroth is" - it no freaking f*kin excuse to show him every 20 minutes and say his name every 5! And it comes from man who KNOWS about story of original
If they really needed to show him off it would have been enough to have a short glimpse of him once per game. Just give us a few short flashes of what happened in the Shinra building in the first game, have the playable flashback portion in the second game like it is now, and have sephiroth mess a bit with clouds head at the start of part 3 until the climax. Of course the parts were he shows up in the original stay the same as well.
Even better, have it be a side chapter where you play as a series of hopeless victims as he heads towards the top floor. Literally make an "alien isolation" style chapter, where the only way to win is to _not_ encounter him, no matter how much you want to see him.
@@brotbrotsen1100
Yeah, exactly. It's also writing 101 to not have your main villain fight and lose to the main character at the end of every installment if you plan on making him an imposing and feared villain. That's ehat you do when you make a "monster of the week" scooby-doo type story. It's so painfully dull and incompetent.
Seeing your Shishio cosplay makes me realize something, Makoto Shishio is one of the coolest villain ever, he's extremely well written and memorable, Sephiroth used to be that way, he was interesting and intimidating, just like Shishio, now he's a complete joke, a walking anime trope with atrocious dialogue and a butchered personality, Sephiroth used to be on the same level as Shishio. Now he's just Genesis twin brother
I watched someone else beat REBIRTH because I am so uninvested I wanted to see how they did Aerith’s death… and when I didn’t understand it (because I didn’t personally play it), I was like, “that was trash.”
How can you call it trash when you self-admittedly are to blame for not understanding it?
@@Arcessitor I understand it now. It’s not intelligent. It’s an unnecessary hill to die on. It’s all fantasy now. Nothing final about it though.
@@ArcessitorBecause a character getting skewered by the villain while trying to save the world isn’t a hard bar to hit considering the original did it better.
They are trying to convolute a simple narrative for no reason. People just need to start admitting it’s bad writing.
@@kjh4496 Exactly this. It is beyond unnecessarily convoluted.
If this sephiroth is the same one from advent children, then this means that ultimately, sephiroth loses in the original game, loses in advent children. Loses in ff7 remake, loses in ff7 rebirth, and will lose in the 3rd installment as well. Unless sephiroth actually wins at the end of the 3rd game, he will have lose every single encounter that he ever has with cloud. What a formidable foe!
Awesome video! Loved all 3 hrs of it!
amazing video my dude. enjoyed it in it's entirety you have a great way of analyzing the story. I can't help but be a bit petty as I jeer and laugh at Square admitting that their new games are not selling very well. I too hope they turn it around so to speak but it's hard when I'm an OG FF7 and FFT fan who's repeatedly told those games and their systems are somehow subpar when that's what put them on the map.
god damn it took me a week to finish this but I agree 100%. As someone who voiced their opinion about the Retrilogy respectfully on the main FF reddit (mind you I was just responding to someone's comment telling them to chillout) and received death threats from crazed fans I cannot second this enough. The parallels between the XIII-2 and the retrilogy is fucking jarring lmfao.
Also amazing work, I can tell this video was no small feat and you really did care about the integrity of the story. Thank you for voicing my same distastes in a concise manner!
@@dyer_wav You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it! I feared that this video would age poorly because it was released a mere month before Rebirth came out (and some bits - like Wedge not dying or the part where I dismiss the possibility of a multiverse - have been proven wrong), but it seems a lot of my points are still applicable to Rebirth. Even though I won't be playing Parts 2 and 3 (I read the plot spoilers and I'm not interested), comments like yours make me feel that all the hard work and time I put into this video was still worth it. :)
@@obsessive_hermit Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from, I spoiled myself too because I was unsure if I wanted to spend the money on rebirth because of the issues I felt with remake. Your point on suspension of disbelief is poignant and I'm glad you made an emphasis on it in this video. People really need to chill out and not flame others about not liking the remake series, especially all the shit about the plot ghosts representing "gatekeepers" or "purists", it's such a loaded term that squanders any good criticism of getting through the masses.
I adore you're Shishio cosplay!
I'll keep watching the video but felt compelled to comment on that before continuing on.
\(･⁀ᗢ ⁀･メ)/
:)
What pisses me off the most about Remake is that if you removed the early reveals of Sephiroth and remove the stupid fate/whisper plot line, it’s a solid reintroduction to the game.
Agreed. They could have released the exact same game without that shit (and perhaps made JENOVA the final boss) and everyone would have been overjoyed. Literally no one would have said: "But where was the time-travelling ghosts and the multiverse bullshit? Where was the Sephiroth battle and defeating fate itself?"
I do pray they will still do something like this in the future. It is not like they have to remake the whole game again; they just have to remove certain scenes and alter some a bit. All the assets and the world, everything else is there to easily turn this into a true remake and cash out double on all of us fools xd
@@obsessive_hermit Rufus could have been fine to that fight was so good
@@xvmvk8061 That would be great, but if they did that, the developers would essentially be admitting that they fucked up the story and so need to fix it retroactively. And Toriyama, Nojima and Kitase are too full of themselves to ever admit to such a thing. They clearly didn’t learn anything from The 3rd Birthday or the FFXIII trilogy (story-wise, that is), so I don’t expect anything will be different this time either. There’s no hope for a man who is enough of a fucking idiot as to think that: “if you change the future, you change the past” is acceptable writing.
Hermit, Are you dressed as Shishio from the Ruroni Kenshin series? I am a big Kenshin fan (as made obvious by my thumbnail).
I agree that FF7R is made for a difference audience than the original games. It is full of post-modern sentiments rather the ecological/psychological combination we got in the original FF7. Its trying to answer different questions using the original as paintbrush.
Indeed, I am Shishio :) Specifically, my cosplay is designed to resemble his appearance in the live-action films (Kyoto Inferno and The Legend Ends).
I'm not entirely sure if 7R is intended for a different audience than the original game was. I think the developers genuinely (and erroneously) believed that these changes/additions would be loved by fans of the original, when in actuality, they're just unwittingly projecting their desire to tell a new story onto the audience. They say in interviews that their goal was to remake FFVII with new mysteries and story elements to surprise old-school fans. In actuality, what they ended up doing was just remaking the FFXIII trilogy with an FFVII skin.
Based on Rebirths initial sales, you were right.
I think Nomura's mind just runs wild and it makes him 'write' like an excited schoolboy.
And.... and.... he has A HUNDRED MACHINE GUNS!
I don't think all this crap in the 7R trilogy was solely Nomura's doing--if anything, it seems to be a result of Nojima wanting to 'tie' the entire FF7 subseries together, Toriyama's obsession with fate, time-travel and multiverse crap, and Kitase's inability to understand that new =/= better.
That said, I agree that Nomura's storytelling is very juvenile. I've heard many former-Kingdom Hearts fans compare the writing in KH to 'one of those elementary school playground fights where the kid you're fighting against keeps making up new powers so that he doesn't lose.' That perfectly summarizes all the constant retconning and plot twists surrounding Ansem, Xehanort and Organization XIII.
@@obsessive_hermitThen those were fake fans. Don't listen to people who spent years of their life to hate something. Literally compared to every other videogame story KH series makes more sense than something as seemingly basic as Zelda (Which is a shit horrible story that's a convoluted time travel mess)
@@obsessive_hermitIf you think KH has retcons you're objectively wrong.
@@obsessive_hermitThe square enix writing staff were originally going to KILL everyone in FF7. Nomura was the one who convinced them to not do it. You literally don't know shit.
@@tylercafe1260 Who’s directing the entire remake project? Nomura.
It’s quintessential Nomura KH bullshit for little weeb cringelords like you.
I appreciate the fair and even handed approach in this video, the depths that some areas of the fandom have sunk to is sad, but it's been this way for decades at this point. The vague and confusing ending is absolutely deliberate, with the intent to stoke theory crafting and debate and thus maintain some momentum until part 3. The creators outright stated that they're looking forward to the theories, so you're spot on with that assessment. Whether the new story additions turn out to be the kind of hackery we feared from the start remains to be seen; personally I didn't like the ending of Rebirth but I'll hold judgement for now to see if the whispers/multiverse narrative really holds any weight (i.e. they couldn't have told the story they wanted without them). I'm a day one player of the OG game and as such had a lot of nostalgia and emotional investment in how these turned out despite some parts of Compilation and other works retrospectively damaging the cannon imo. On the whole I'm still on board and hope they can stick the landing, and hey, the OG game isn't going anywhere.
Much as I detest what this trilogy is doing, I don't wish ill fortune or disappointment on others. I sincerely hope that Part 3 ends up making (rather than breaking) the trilogy for you. As a precaution, I would advise bracing for the worst, because "mystery box" storytelling like this rarely results in a satisfying ending. But while this trilogy is not for people like me, I do hope that you'll be able to enjoy it in the end. Personally, I'll stick to the OG with mods. LOL
Just beat this and the thing I hate the most is the lack of control over the character. The game MAKES you do things like walking, looking, talking, etc. Even Classic plays for you. The game may as well just do everything for me, let me watch and sometimes interact with the game in a quick time event. I think I would have preferred to just watch this as an interactable film.
As someone who nver played the original, The remake and rebirth just have me confused at various points. So it's not just OG fans disappointed with the story ,
That's one of the things that frustrates me most about this project: many newcomers who pick up the Remake trilogy won't get to experience the amazing story that us older fans got to experience with the OG. My advice is to just buy the OG on PC and ask someone to help you with modding it. I've been playing the OG with numerous visual and UI mods and one which adds music from the Remake. It's awesome!
@@obsessive_hermit oof no! The Remake soundtrack is terrible! A handful of tracks are fine, but most are abominations. Anything with a guitar is bin tier.
@@obsessive_hermit I'll look into it.
I wonder if there will be a FFVII "Redemption" fan modder project in the future? Where once Episode 3 finally releases on PC, in like four more years or whenever, that modders will take all 3 Remake games, and combine them into one experience, and fix the major flaws. Remove the End bosses that were out of place in Remake and Rebirth, and all of the miltiversal stuff from cutscenes and lines. And replace the cutscenes that clash with the original story with new ones that are true to the originals. They could also do away with time waster and frustrating padding like the excess minigames, and make the items are reward from those discoverable through exploring the vast open zones. Maybe get rid of the Ubisoft towers and all the Chadley crap, and again, make all that stuff things the player needs to explore to find. Obviously it would require the player to purchase all 3 from Square Enix, but then the overhaul mod would "Redeem" the game. Essentially turning it into what fans wanted in a remake in the first place.
That would be cool, although I doubt that it's feasible. If it were, I think there'd be a mod like that for Remake already. Personally, my money is on mods for the OG. After reading up on Rebirth's story, I've finally written off this trilogy altogether. Instead, I'm eager to see how the modders can take its assets (e.g., music, cutscenes, character models, sound effects, voice acting) and mod them into the original game.
Sort of like an FF7: Director's Cut. Could be really nice
6:55 that blows my mind, the lengths people will try to go to just because you don't like the things that they like. It's giving emotionally stunted
It also gives that person knows the person critiquing the plot is right. Why else would a person go out of their way to look for dissenting opinions only to defend their own?
Watching this as I type this. I'm gonna watch the entire thing because it's Saturday and I enjoy debate and challenging my ideas. Let's discuss this on a video call! There hasn't been a debate between two sides posted to RUclips yet. Let's do it.
Your Shishio cosplay is awesome🤌🔥. And the video is the best I've seen on the topic so far.
Well, this is certainly an offer which I hadn't anticipated.... Thank you, good sir!
I'd be happy to partake in a video discussion sometime this month (possibly next week). Would it be live on twitch or just a one-one video call which would then be recorded and put on RUclips? I think I'd prefer the latter, because I'm the kind of person who needs time to pause and think about the best way to word my points before speaking. If we did it live on Twitch, it would probably be unnecessarily long and drawn out. If we were to record it and then trim it down a bit before uploading, it would be a lot more succinct.
We should also have a few back and forth discussions first about how to best structure our conversation (e.g., a list of points, who speaks when, in which order, etc.) before we film it though.
And thanks for complimenting my cosplay! Do you mind if I wear it during the chat? In an age of AI, government surveillance and deepfakes, I'm not comfortable with my face being online (which is part of the reason why I opted to wear it for the video: I wanted people to be able to read my facial expressions while still keeping my face/identity safe).
I'm glad you like the video thus far! It took A LOT of time and effort. The voiceover in particular involved a lot of process of elimination - literally EVERY SINGLE sentence is comprised of at least 2 (usually around 5) different takes cut up and stitched together so as to ensure proper pronunciation and the best intonation possible.
The fact that you are given an option after beating rebirth to auto skip all of the zack scenes proves that these guys had no idea what they were doing. If you shut remake off before the ending, skip all the zack scenes, and shut off rebirth just as aeirs is being killed (before the sephiroth fight and ending) you have a pretty good remake of the original.
Watching this now Rebirth is out hurts me in the soul. It's great in all the ways Remake is, but greatly improved in level design, gameplay variety etc....but then it not only doubles down on everything dumb about chapter 18, it actively jumps the shark and makes it worse by establishing that the alternate timeline versions of previously dead characters have quantum immortality because their memories are preserved, every fate defying decision creates a branching timeline, that travel between worlds is both possible and happens, you can go get spare copies of certain plot devices if something goes wrong.....
It's at the point that if you wanted to really strain credulity, you could make a joke meta commentary that Zack is the real villain because his prescence single handedly destroys the stakes and any sense of cause and effect, and Sephiroth is actually the good guy because he wants to fuse the timelines into one and take the cookie jar away.
I'm no stranger to long videos, and this is hardly the longest one I have ever watched, but god damn is it a beast. It is very dense with information, and I feel it demands my attention so much that I just have to take a break at about 2 hours in. I have some thoughts so far.
First of all, it's extremely well produced and edited. It's hard to believe this is the only video on your channel with just how well constructed it is. Beyond that, I find it is also very well reasoned and rational. Opening by admitting you are in the minority of people who even really had a problem with the ending was a smart conceit, and you go on to spend 2 hours making some very strong points about why this ending is either a) not good in isolation or b) not good specifically when taken in the greater context of multiverse media in general and/or Square's specific (failed) approaches to it.
For me, when I got to the ending of Remake, I don't really recall having any problems with it. I had already been expecting some shenanigans to take place once we got to the end of the highway because obviously we weren't just going to get there and roll credits, so I was ready for something big to happen. I also had already gotten used to the whispers presence and more or less figured out what they were. I can't recall if I ever really questioned why we were fighting the whispers, but it is a very good question. I probably thought at the time, and still do sort of think, it's really just a manipulation of Sephiroth. My interpretation is that he somehow set the Whispers against us, as opposed to setting us against the Whispers.
I was ultimately very happy with the ending of remake because I liked the promise of the "unknown journey" and "defying fate". While I enjoyed the adaptation of Midgar greatly, I was also excited at the prospect of things being very different moving forward. And I thought, personally, it was well done. It wasn't over complicated, overly contrived, completely out of nowhere, or anything like that. It was just right, and even the setup with Zack was perfect sequel bait. In isolation, it was great. But I think if I had taken a step back and really considered all the other crazy BS plots Square had come up with around that time, I might have seen the writing on the wall for what eventually happened with Rebirth.
I also really appreciated your point about the lack of meaningful difference between writers and directors when it comes to the final product of a game's story. I remember one jackass in the FF Discord server very passionately arguing in favor of the Rebirth ending and also defending Nomura up and down and blaming Nojima exclusively as if somehow Nomura wouldn't have approved everything.
What remakes of games teach me, is that we shouldn't ask for them. The chance they do the OG justice is slim to none. Even the 'small' changes in Demon's souls remake put me off. Never liked the new Abe's oddysee either. And i can't begin to tell you how i feel about FFVII remake. When you are so passionate about a game, any changes to the original vision feel misplaced. I am not asking or looking forward to remakes anymore. I just appreciate the OG games. (As long as i played the OG game in the time it released of course, if not i have no issue playing the remake.)
1:57:52 LOL!! Btw, you just gained a new sub from me thanks to Orion85.
I got through 2 hours of your discussion and here are my quick thoughts of details I wanted to chime in on. Not in any order mind you.
Time travel trope [] I agree with you that the best time travel films I've seen tend to focus on the characters, be a character piece. I too hope the rest of the FF7R can handle this well.
New Fan Feedback [] I agree somewhat to how a new fan only exsposed to Final Fantasy 7 Remake would raise their eyebrow at certain moments; I thought you captured that well with Cait Sith reveal ... But... I also have faith in the new audience, I've visited FF7 reddit alot and seen many new comers want to learn more about the IP, many reddit users suggest to them to play original game so they'll be more aware of minor context clues, Easter eggs etc.
It's definitely not a perfect system but I do trust the audience and if they want to learn more they'll seek it out. I do think it's bull the devs said that anyone can jump into Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth because a lot was covered in that game and even the Red voice over recap didn't cover all the content.
1997 Cloud "Happy" ending [] Because we never got a close up of Cloud's face at the ending of that game I'm truly unsure if he was truly happy. Sure we can see that he .. He got closer to Tifa, saved the planet but truthfully he might not have been as happy as we might think. I see why you'd make that conclusion though.
Close Encounters [] This is my own point to add into this conversation. In Steven Spielberg's "Close Encounters of a Third Kind" .. he wrote for his script that the Father character would leave his Father responsibilities, his children to go with these Alien beings and explore their world(s). Spielberg was asked many years after the film if he would do anything different. He responded that he now has a different outlook and wouldn't want that Father character to out right leave his family. He had a new vision of how the story might be changed. I think this could easily be applied to this Final Fantasy 7 R series, if they choose to change stuff if they realized they want to shed light on certain other themes that were their but not as strong and bring them to the fore front they can. The audience might hate or loathe their choices but I do think it's freeibg they have that choice if they want something different from what came before.
To end, I think this experience kinda like going to a fancy restaurant. Were hungry and promptly ate the first course. If you're case you probably burned your mouth during that first course and is not unsure if you want to continue. To me the first course was mostly to my liking but had a salty finish. I am willing to at least experience course number 2 so I have mote of an concept of ideas, themes, flavors offered. I'm personally excited for the unknown journey but hope it's written well and I can make sense of it.
As things are going, I imagine the third installment will also not feature the ruby and sapphire weapon.
you'll probably need to buy them as DLC.
Seperately.
that is, IF they make it into the THIRD game...
EDIT: YOOOOO SPEC OPS: THE LINE MENTIONED LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO