Why I Abandoned Calvinism
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2021
- For over a decade I was a Calvinist. I now have abandoned this unbiblical understanding of the Scriptures. In this video I detail my journey into and out of Calvinism.
Visit My Website: www.noncalvinistarchive.com/
Contact Me: simplebibleman@gmail.com
#reformedtheology #calvinism #noncalvinism
Brother, I just want to encourage you and tell you that those last 15 years were not a waste! God will bless you in your learning and discernment. Keep up the hard work, because it WILL pay off!
What really helped me coming out of Calvinism was to listen to preachers who focus on Jesus, who we are in Him and who Christ is in us. Dr. Andrew Farley comes to mind. He truly understands God’s grace and I’ve been blessed by his teaching.
Amen! Dr Andrew Farley has the best teaching on what Apostle Paul was teaching on the doctrine of grace in his epistles!
Andrew Farley is absolutely a false teacher accusing Jesus as having a foot fetice and also implied Peter has homosexual feelings for Jesus.
He also perverts God's grace.
Over the years I have tried my best to understand the doctrine of calvanism and I get stopped at the front door every time. I cannot wrap my head around me calling myself an elect and chosen by God in the context of calvanism, over the guy next to me who may not be an elect and chosen for Hell. It breaks my heart, doesn't sit with my view of the Biblical God, and honestly reeks of pride. Just my experience.
Does god know who is in the book of life now or will he have to wait until judgement to find out?
@@MadebyKourmoulis he knows who is in the Book of life. All sides agree with this. What’s your point?
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou that means the outcome was predetermined and you didn't make the choice on your own.
@@MadebyKourmoulis Nice “logic”🤪 lol
@@johndisalvo6283 how is it not logical?
I just found this and just found your channel. Thank you very much for your testimony and your words of edification. It's always good to know of former Calvinists.
Thank you Seth for this video. I was saved at 16 in a pentecostal church and raised among my Church family for years after. After I got married I moved to a small town and was told that the local Baptist church was a good church and so we tried it out. I had never heard of Calvimism before attending this church. My heart has always been for outreach and service to God. While I was able to serve in the church I hit brick walls everytime I suggested an idea for outreach. I soon learned that the pastor was a Calvinist. I had to look this up because the parishioners explained it very simplitically and honestly I felt as if I agreed. However soon the sermons all became the same. There was no outreach, the same worship set was cycled through because those songs were the only "Biblically" sound songs. I found myself feeling like every Sunday was the same, I was hopeless, and started to feel like I never knew God. I found myself questioning God's character, really felt like I was being derailed. I finally left the church and found a church that preaches the word. But I searched endlessly for content that would help me not feel like I was the "only one" expirenceing this. Thank you again and sorry for the long comment. 🙏 ❤️🙏
You described exactly what I’m going thru now! I was saved in an AG church, then moved and attended a church that was reformed, but didn’t know what that meant. I see now that they have elevated a man-made doctrine to the same level as Scripture and only teach the Bible thru that lens. But I just don’t feel like I’m growing or drawing nearer to the Lord. They teach only the fear of the Lord, but rarely the love of Jesus and the grace that we now to live in. They see everything as still being under the moral law rather than the law of Christ- who fulfilled the law perfectly, so we can walk in union with Jesus and grow in His love and grace, and not some legalistic, man-made version of it.
Much of what Pentecostals teach is also unbiblical. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that a person must speak in tongues to be saved. The Bible is quite clear about the doctrine of the Trinity. Pentcostals emphasize subjective emotional experiences over delving into the word.
Been there done that. The Holy Spirit would not let you fall for the Calvigod's heresy. Because you truly desired the true God of salvation.
Did they talk in tongues ?
God forbid that songs and messages should be based on the Bible. What’s wrong with you people!!!
I have a Ph.D in theology, and I appreciate this so much. I find Calvinism to be such a limiting view of Christianity and God. I also find that most Calvinist struggle to comprehend anything outside of the small theological box they have put God in.
Just curious, where has your phd in theology led you in terms of a denomination?
@@L2A815 I am in a Wesleyan-Pentecostal denomination.
@@ForceOfLightEntertainmentthat explains a lot
@@jokinghazard4022 Yes, it does explain why I’m not a 5 point Calvinist
I was taught Calvinist in one of the theology classes I took in college. I forgot about it when I finished that class. I know how to read why should I follow man made doctrines. I read the Bible for myself.
Thank you for sharing your story. There is nothing like the testimony of a former Calvinist to show that this is not just an intellectual debate, but a dangerous doctrine that will creep in to your mind and affect every aspect of your walk with God, the intention of your prayers, your attitude towards your own brothers and sisters, and the souls of unbelievers. This is very hard to understand for someone who has never been a Calvinist. Thank you for sharing.
I had a friend of 30 years who became a Calvinist. Because I wouldn't not accept his Calvinistic rendering of 1Tim2:1-6 and others where God clearly wants all men to be saved, whereas for him God wants all kinds of men to be saved which the text doesn't include all kinds but just says all men to be saved. He looked down his Calvinist nose and said I was ignorant , don't know nothing and etc. I called him twice after the conversation and he would not respond to my calls.
You cannot convince me that Calvinism is not a cult at this point.
@@Notacalvinist_24 I left a Calvinist church and they just said “alright God bless you” and sent me on my way. Not exactly cult like to be honest 🤣
@@way2tehdawn They probably figured you were not one of the elect so no big loss. They have a different gospel which is the doctrines of grace which is only for the elect but what does Paul say-Galatians 1:6-9 (NASB 2020): 6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel, 7 which is not just another account; but there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Their gospel is different and it's rooted in Gnosticism and they have a different Christ one that doesn't love all, one that doesn't love perfectly. God is PURE ACTUALITY and He is the only being who is PURE ACTUALITY. The god the Calvinist portrays is lacking in his eternal attribute of love and if he lacks in anything he cannot be God because now he has potential to change to learn to grow in love. A being who can change is a potential being but God has no potential HE is PURE ACTUALITY. All of God's attributes must be the same and have no potential. If God has knowledge then he must have All Knowledge. If God has might then He must be All Mighty and if God has Love then He must be All Loving. Whatever God has, He must have it Perfectly or else he is not God let alone sovereign.
You did the right thing by leaving that church. They have a higher regard for the writings of John Calvin than they do for scripture itself. For them all scripture is interpreted through the lens of Calvinism, through their systematic. I'm glad you were discerning enough to figure out something was wrong and you had to leave. I believe that is because you are actually one of the elect.
@@Notacalvinist_24 I left because I had to move countries 😅 I was just saying it wasn’t a cult, it’s just a normal kind of voluntary participation church.
@@way2tehdawn This reason why I say it is a cult is because the gospel that they believe in is different from the that of the Bible. Their gospel is only good news for the elect because they believe Christ only for them and not the world because God only loves them and hates the elect. That's not the Christ of the Bible now is it? When they quote scripture they twist it by inserting their Calvinistic theology into it. For instance let's take Jn 3:16
John 3:16-18 (NASB 2020): For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
Where it says God so loved the WORLD they insert the world of the elect to fit their theology because they believe God only loves the elect and not the world or not everyone. Just like the Jehovah Witness they add words to the text that are not there to fit their theology. The Calvinist do this with a lot of the biblical text. Do this for yourself, study their TULIP systematic and see if it lines up with scripture. See if the Bible says we have no free will. Take a look and see if the Bible says Christ death was only for the elect or was it for everyone. Calvinist say that we cannot even respond to the gospel so God must regenerate us so that we may believe the gospel, in other words they teach we are saved so as to believe. Orthodox Christianity teaches we believe as to be saved. Faith proceeds regeneration all the time, that is the Ordo Salutis
Acts 16:30-31 (NASB 2020): and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
The Jailer Converted
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household
Faith always proceeds regeneration but they need you to believe that God has to regenerate you so that you may have faith and believe. There is no scripture to support that. They only come to that conclusion because they believe to be spiritually dead is like a corpse who can't hear see or feel because they are dead. So for them God must make you alive to believe. To be spiritually dead means to be separated from God not like a dead corpse. So you see why they must twist the text to fit their theology. A lot more could be said about their different gospel but I will spare you. Again research them for yourself they have some wacky beliefs. Their God is one who is deterministic and causes all things including all of your sins, rape , murder etc because God is sovereign and you have no free will because he controls that as well.
Thank you for sharing your testimony. The more and more ex-Calvinists “come out” of the bondage of this false doctrine, the more they give others the courage to leave too. I’m praying God blesses you and your family, and that you know the joy of walking fully with Him again. God bless you.
"Calvinism" is nothing more than the assertion that God sovereignly administers HIS creation the way HE desires.
Wow appreciate that pure honesty. Great pointers and encouragement. Thanks!
Just listened. Good stuff! Glad to hear you've seen the errors with Calvinism and were more committed to Christ. God is good!
God is good. He's good good Father, were as in calvinist he is a MONSTER, even baby are doomed from the womb as stated in his institute of Christian religion chp 23 ( predestination)
@@shiningbright3925 yes, they would be except that our gracious God saves all the little ones who haven’t reached the age of accountability. God doesn’t need you to stick up for Him. He has ordained what he has said and if you have a problem with scripture, then you have a problem with God, and as the jar of clay, you have no right.
@@briankuzmaguitar
No one here has a problem with God. Just the way Calvinists twist His character.
God actually uses men to defend His name. 1John is written in opposition against Gnosticism. The roots of Calvinism were rebuked by the apostle John so why should we not rebuke its offshoots?
Thanks for sharing this video! Praying that God would raise up more men like Ravenhill and Tozer!
I would add Keith Daniel to Ravenhill and Tozer.
Mad respect for you, Seth. I know that takes much courage. Praying for you as you walk down this new path in your Christian journey.
and
Awesome testimony my friend! Praise God!
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing your story.
Sincerely,
Another Ex-Calvinist
@Juan Pablo Zepeda Mar you are oozing pride.
@Juan Pablo Zepeda Mar Let's not view others like Calvinist looks at others. I loved Christ when I was a Calvinist and I still love him when I left. There are many Calvinist that are our brothers and Sisters. The difference we have hope for the lost they do not.
@Juan Pablo Zepeda Mar you can't know that, many are just mislead.
@Juan Pablo Zepeda Mar do they hold to Jesus as their Saviour through the cross. Saved by grace through Faith as Jesus as the son of God raised from the dead? If so, then they are saved. Bad theology? Sure but saved. Yes! Blessings, mate
@Juan Pablo Zepeda Mar Ironic that you demonize calvinism, yet your last sentence state that if Calvinist were saved the spirt would lead them away from that doctrine. Sounds like a couple tennants of Calvinism to me
Thanks for sharing your story. Good stuff.
Well done, my friend. I never cared for Calvinism so it never affected me when I listened to people like John McArthur. I've always felt a little sorry for him and his teaching. There doesn't seem to be much joy. I have read the scriptures every day for fifty one years with only the help of the Holy Spirit. It's impossible to go astray when you ask God's guidance and believe what is written without the guidance of 'others.' The word of God has never been complicated to me. I asked God to give me a love for His word and He did. I asked Him to give me a love for people and He did that too. For God so loved the world. Blessings
@Jari Virtanen Thank you, Jari. Of course, without faith, it is impossible to please God or know Him. But yes, I do get your point. Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we have no power to live out the life Christ has for each of us. Acts 1:18 says it all. God bless
these people have changed the living God for a travesty, making him like a demonic moloch-god --- as I can understand many Calvinists are going to hell because of their reckless beliefs -- so, it way worse than having 'sad' lives
@@silveriorebelo2920 Thank you, Silverio, for your comment. I'm not sure I can go along with, at least your attitude. You don't win anything by calling another's faith demonic, etc. and saying who is going to hell. We really don't have that right. Paul, in Colossians 4:5-6 says this, "Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside the faith, redeeming the time. Let your speech 'always' be with 'grace,' seasoned with salt. That you may know how you ought to answer each one." We are not judges, Silverio. We are just vessels He chooses to use to carry the Gospel to a hurting world. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness and faith, etc. John Mc Arthur is not our enemy. He is a God-loving, bible believing Christian who happens to have a different point of view on certain topics. Although I disagree with many of his teachings, I have also been blessed by some of his preaching. I'm dealing with a Muslim and a Bahi at this time. I never put down their faith. I lift up Jesus and the cross and use scripture as my bedrock foundation. They keep coming back for more, week after week. They are fascinated with the truth they want to hear more. Remember, Paul said, "I am all things to all men, that I may win some. I hope I didn't go on too long. It is so important that our attitude reflects the love that Jesus had for the world. John 3:16. God bless
Isnt it funny how Calvinists want to convert believers to Calvinism?
@@polskigirl8547 It really is a valid point you made, Polski. Every time I see John Mc Arthur on RUclips, he is putting down some pastor or preacher or group who are praising God with their hands lifted, saying it's all emotional or something. I preach Christ and Him crucified (the gospel). Isn't that what we are called to do? I love John and only wish him well.
Stay strong in your growth, faith & knowledge of the Scriptures. Be strong & do not give up. 💪✝️
Thanks You helped me understand why I’m not a Calvinist…..
Thank you SO much for doing this! Very relatable
Cults are very hard to
leave. Many blessings to you.
Thank you for sharing your story. I left Calvinism over a year ago after a two year deep dive into theology and still find myself so encouraged by others who have walked the same path.
How does someone 'leave calvinism' its not a church or even an identified group. Its one understanding of soteriology in Christianity. Now weither you agree with it or not, its not a thing you leave, insofar as I can understand. It is a part of Christianity as a whole, one way of understanding salvation, again, weither you agreee with it or not. Its not a matter of being Christian or not, its a part of Christianity.
@@neoturfmasterMVS maybe you misunderstand how sectarianism works in the United states, but a church is considered a community unto itself in the United states. A church is not necessarily connected to a single location, people from as much as a 20 mi to 30 mi radius will attend the same church if they wish to be part of that same community. So you absolutely can leave the calvinist community.
On a theological understanding side, you can leave Calvinism just like you can leave any other philosophy, idea, or theology. When you feel that you're completely married to an idea, it feels like that idea is "home". Thus, getting up and leaving that idea behind can be accurately stated to be "leaving" calvinism.
lack of knowledge. Might want to read the bible again
I’m reformed myself as that’s what I believe to be the most basic and biblical interpretation of Scriptures, and has actually given me great zeal for the lost. But I also feel like it puts things in perspective of knowing I can’t save anyone, and it my deepest joy to simply obey the Lord, especially in being a godly wife and mom first and prioritizing evangelizing to my family, but doing so with patience because I see how patient the Lord was with me.
All that being said, I do appreciate videos like yours that challenge my Calvinist viewpoints and force me to consider Scriptures that seem to contradict the TULIP. And I’m sorry to hear how Calvinism derailed your passion for the lost and street preaching.
God bless. All gory be to Christ.
Provisionism and Thomistic views are interesting.
Sorry you've been deceived by the false god of calvinism. No scripture supports TULIP. There is no biblical salvation in TULIP. No grace and no gospel for the "non-elect".
Don't send your out-of-context, cherry-picked passages that show how deep your deception runs. No need
Interesting. Are you, your wife and kids all elect? Is everyone in your family elect? Is everyone in your Church elect?
Truth in love
@@truth7416 How could she know? God never tells anyone on earth (except Jesus) who is elect.
(what a strange question)
@@marce.goodnews If you're referring to Provisionalism (eg, Leighton Flowers' soteriology), do bear in mind that there is much that Flowers will not discuss. So his soteriology is only interesting/appealing to people who have not worked to think beyond 1st stage hermeneutics. No offense.
For example,
- Flowers says (correctly) that people are free to follow their desires. But he refuses to answer where human desires come from. He can't, because it completely undoes his grounding of free will. (Desires don't come from man, otherwise man could create, change, and remove desires at will. And no human can. So... where do desires come from? Flowers won't say.)
- Flowers refuses to explain why God doesn't send missionaries to places where there is no Gospel, therefore allowing people to live and die as pagans for millennia (eg, God didn't send preachers to the Western Hemisphere for 1,500 years after Paul wrote Rom 10:14-15. Flowers needs to explain "Provisionalism" in light of the fact that hundreds of millions of people did not have the Gospel provided to them.
More could be said, but that's a good place to start.
You hit the nail on the head!
Thank you for sharing your heart in this.y story is almost identical to yours with one major shift. I never embraced Calvinism when it was presented to me. I had the exact objections you had but what prevented me from even considering the mindset was that people labeled themselves with Calvin or Arminianism. I had no idea what either was. I only wanted to know the Bible.
I have listened to some Calvinists and like some of their points, but I think they go too far, especially in the election and predetermination realm.
If God chose people to save, then they make Jesus a liar when he said "whosoever believes" and they make God a liar when we said "I do not delight in the death of the wicked"
I also made one very important point: Any person who puts any man's name in front of "ism" or "ist" is putting a man in a place he does not deserve. God alone is Holy. Christ alone is worthy of worship. I am a Christian and will accept no other title.
Agreed. Can you imagine what the apostle Paul would have said if people started saying they were Paulists? Oh, wait, they did! And, he told them to knock it off.
@@graftme3168
you have to remember though ONLY the anti-Calvinists... refer to the Calvinists as "Calvinists".. as if there were 2 camps.. one for Christ and one for Calvin...
I am a Calvinist... but I don't go around stating
"I'm a Calvinist"..."I'm a Calvinist" .. "I'm a Calvinist". .
I call myself a Christian.. the teachings of Calvinism.. has opened my eyes.. to the true God of the bible.. a God who is Sovereign over His entire creation... Who does not allow one thing to take place in which He is Not a part of..
maybe the Anti- Calvinists.. need to STOP referring to Christians.. who have a deeper understanding of God's word.. as Calvinists.. and start calling us Christians..
in the south there is a sect of Christians that believe the ONLY thing they have to do to be saved is to trust in Jesus.. but... they do NOT wish to refer to Jesus as Lord...
they state that if Jesus is our Master .. that is NOT true salvation.. since that requires something for us to do.... namely.... call Jesus "Lord"..
do You think it is a "work".. to refer to Jesus as "Lord"..?...
the Yankee Arnold ministries do.... look up their video on "Lordship Salvation".. and see for yourself..
I wonder ..... since you believe Calvinism is opposed to what the bible says..
what other weird things YOU may believe..
Thank you for this message.
Thanks for sharing this testimony. I’ve been wrestling with my Calvinism for a couple of years now. I started listening to Steve Gregg’s series today because of this video. It’s been really good, thanks!
I’d also recommend looking into Dr. Leighton Flowers stuff against Calvinism as he was a former Calvinist himself for many years.
@@nateperez6587 I literally was going to leave the same comment. I love Soteriology 101. 💗📖🙏
@@heatherwoods5703 I'm a big fan of him, I honestly knew very little about Calvinism until I found his channel randomly lol. He's given me a lot of info i could use to talk any Calvinist brothers or sisters I meet out of it, at least.
Soteriology 101 is the best source on why Calvinism is wrong. Leighten Flowers
Excellent video!! Shared it on Facebook and praying more see it who are in the quicksand that is Calvinism.
Thanks! It is quicksand indeed.
I’m so blessed and encouraged by this man’s courage and humility in posting this. I pray that the Lord would use it to wake many up and set them on fire for Jesus once again. Oh that He would breathe fresh fire onto hearts and fan into flames the sparks that once burned. May many become so zealous and passionate about reaching the lost for Christ, so hungry to truly KNOW God and not just know a lot about Him, and to walk in sincere love, humility & compassion, without compromising truth or holiness, that they become as cities set upon a hill, radiantly shining out the Light of Christ in this darkness. May the Lord raise up godly men and women in this hour, with hearts wholly devoted and lives completely abandoned to Him, to do the work of His Kingdom and stand steadfastly until the Master returns. I hope this video encourages people to truly seek the Face of God through fervent prayer and in open, unbiased studying of His Word “with faith as a child,” and not merely settle to being chained to a man-made system. Only Christ in us, by the Power of the Holy Spirit of the Most High God, can enable us both to rightly understand and to faithfully live according to the Word of God. Theology and doctrine are important, but should never replace a deeply intimate, personal, and robust relationship with God Himself. I admonish my children frequently that I don’t want them to merely know the Bible, but that they should set their hearts to know the God of the Bible. The more time we spend with Him, the more like Him He makes us through the convicting, refining, and sanctifying work of His Holy Spirit. And since the Bible says that we as Jesus’ disciples will be known by our love for one another, I pray that the Love of Christ would dwell in us richly, and that we would find unity as Believers in order to walk worthy of the call to which we’ve been called, and be a faithful witness of Christlikeness to a lost & watching world. God Bless.
To "KNOW God" IS to know a lot about Him.
Just like to "know" Jesus is to know a lot about Him.
No one can know God without knowing some stuff, or, a lot of stuff about Him.
Can't know anyone without knowing something about them.
Knowing something about them is to know them.
Theology and Doctrine IS intimate, personal, and relational.
Having a "robust" relationship with the Triune God means we know as much about Him from what He has revealed about Himself in Scripture as we possibly can...that' means, "Theology".
Be careful, Bondservant [of Christ], bad Theology is what got us into this mess to begin with.
Theology still matters as much now as it did in the Garden; if not more so.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
@@ryangallmeier6647 The pharisees knew a lot about the Messiah but they didn't know the Messiah. The healed blind man knew Him and they didn't. They could had recite every scripture about the Messiah but they couldn't say, one thing I know I was blind and now I see!
@@mariospontos5096 They didn't know a lot about Him, though. They knew Him not.
They would have, though, if they had properly interpreted Dan. 9:24-27 (and other Messianic texts as well).
Satan can recite Scripture, too! Doesn't mean he assents to the truth of what is written therein, though.
@@ryangallmeier6647 There is a big difference to know about God from to know Him. We can know everything about a food, about it's taste, it's nutrition value etc but it is a big difference from eat it. Then you don't just know about it's taste, you really know it's taste. We know a lot about lot of people that doesn't mean we really know them. In the same way is true with God. Anyone with lots of Bible knowledge knows about God, that doesn't mean he know Him. After all the scriptures points us out to Jesus, to go to Him and have eternal life /to know Him and Him that sent Him!
Wow I want to really encourage you for doing this video. Your candidness about how it affected you so detrimentally for 15 years and your helpful points were very impactful. Thank you for being humble and giving such a candid testimony.
Thank you for coming online and sharing your story. May the Holy Spirit continue to lead you and guide you into all truth.
Unfortunately this brother has problems with doctrine.
@@bobwood5146 what exactly?
This was well thought out and clearly put. Thanks for sharing! One less Calvinist :) Liked that you mentioned Steve Gregg; such a good teacher! May God continue to guide all of us into His TRUTH and to keep us humble as we share our points of view.
Yes. We offer Grace. And love isn't a dirty word anymore.
Can you provide a link to videos or books, etc by Steve Gregg on this subject?
what an encouragement! praise God!
Great word my brother! Thank you!
I have been coming out of Calvinism for the past 8-10 months. I am the type to really dig and deep dive into something and be relentless until I arrive at my answer, whether I like it or not.
I came from a legalistic southern baptist church growing up, so I hated the church. As a senior in high school through the next 3 years, I searched for the truth, no matter where it led, because I value truth over all else. This led me back to God, or should I say, He led me back to Him. (99 sheep anyone?) I was part of a Bible study group in the basement of a friends' house when God shook my heart and mind so hard I could do nothing but confess He is LORD! I was saved that day and had such a fire for others like you said with you and your wife.
Fast forward a few years later and I move away and met my wife and went to church where she has gone since she was young, since about 11 years old or so. The pastor was very conservative and preached conservatively, but focused on the Gospel. Good times, i thought, not getting bogged down in one particular reading but focusing on the Gospel. Well, year after year, the preaching gets more and more calvinistic and eventually, the pastor and 3 elders (small church of maybe 70 at the time including the 20 kids) affirmed the doctrines of grace aka 5 point calvinism. I figured no big deal, it has got to be Biblical since we are so focused on the Gospel, right?
Well, that was the first 5 years there. The next 4 years (up through last year) I was on track to becoming an elder and was about to spend my last year as a deacon and move up to elder at the end of this month (October 2022) pending the approval of current elders and the vote of the church. 4 weeks ago, I got brought into the pastors office with 1 other elder and cornered about my posts "hinting at free will to choose God on facebook. (I post Biblical exegesis not according to any doctrine, but what the Bible says, to which i was praised, so long as it aligned with their doctrines, but I will not be bound but by the Truth, as stated before). SO, I have about an hour long discussion with why I am on the track that I am, and every time I attempted to give an answer, I get interrupted by the pastor and talked over, telling me I am wrong and "in dangerous waters". I retort with a saying He always told us when preparing teachings "If you stray away from what the church has held en masse prior to your teaching, chances are, you are wrong." Well, I brought up Augustine and how he did the exact same thing "you" told us not to do. He responded with "that is different, He (augustine) was Spiritually inspired to reclaim the doctrines of the Gospel since the early church quickly fell away immediately after the apostles."
Yeah....let that sink in for a moment....
I brought up a multitude of references for "all may come and be saved" etc, and every time, he dismisses them as "it's just a coloquial all, as in all the people at the game were cheering. not all really are, but only certain ones."
I respond with how "that is misreading the plain reading of the text and denying what it says in favor of some doctrine no where seen in Scripture. You are eisegeting in favor of your own view and not exegeting what the passage says."
It didn't go very far before the other elder stepped in and got us calmed down, and said we should talk another time, all the elders at once so I can give a full testimony about where I am at, and give a full declaration of the doctrine on which I stand/the interpretation and hermeneutic I use.
SO, That's where I am at now. Could I have been nicer? yes, and I asked God to forgive my hot headedness, but I do not apologize for my zeal for the Lord and His Word.
I now am finishing up my exegesis on Romans 9, john 4-12, Ephesians 1-3 and all connecting passages and thoughts.
I also have a churchwide meeting about leaving our current fellowship in favor of a more pure calvinist one, and adopting the 1689 creed as our church confession.
I have talked in private with other members (nearly 70% at this point) and none of them adhere to the calvinist doctrine, and would rather they not adopt this catechism, but not a single one is willing to go against the pastor, as he drowns out everyones voice with his own and refuses to hear us by his talking over us and rabbit trailing down obscure doctrinal paths barely connected to the topic.
So, the people in the church are burnt out, unwilling to stand against unbiblical doctrines since the church still preaches the Gospel, and are just along for the ride.
Sorry for venting, I just wanted to give my position where I am at, ask for prayer going forward and that God would guide me to the right responses and positions and actions. As well as any decisions being made going forward with this church.
My wife doesn't like the idea of leaving, but is willing after seeing how the leadership is responding to me and others. aka the pastors response.
I hope to talk with each elder privately before our big meeting to give my apologia and be understood, whether or not they agree with me, I just want to be heard and understood, and hopefully they see I am committed to the Word, and not any particular doctrine, although I can clearly teach what is Biblical.
But yes, I find more peace, more zeal for the lost, and feel closer to God than ever before as while I was in calvinism/reformed camp, I felt separated from God's love for the longest time and just kept thinking, it is a season of trials.
Your not luke warm and right on the money. Calvinism is the yeast of the devil that has travel through the dough heads of most churches today. You stand NO chance of convincing that church of their error. They have chosen the error (Heresy).
Save yourself the pain just cold turkey leave and find some where else >
I am out still looking. I wouldn't sit under even one service before meeting with the pastors and elders and asking point blank questions that could not be avoided or couched. I would want to hear that they are listening for calvinism to come and would snuff it out emediately.
Truth in Love
Wow this was really thorough, great video man! I can sympathize with much of what you said. Luckily God helped me get out of Calvinism after a couple of years and not 15. Again, great job, you highlighted so many issues in such a short video.
The Lord delivered you from the snare of the fowler! :-]
Another great series on the " Dangers of Calvinism " by Pastor Brandon Holthaus
Excellent brother! God bless!
I am a non-Calvinist because I believe the Bible. After attending a very strong Calvinistic church for many years our entire family left that church and excellent fellowship of believers. I thank God for His guidance.
God bless you Diana
I'm a Calvinist because the Bible says that there is none good except God. If you think there is good in you then you won't be a Calvinist.
Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? there is none GOOD but one, that is, GOD: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? there is none GOOD but one, that is, GOD.
Lu 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me GOOD? none is GOOD, save one, that is, GOD.
You can't be a Christian if you don't believe or at least accept on faith what Jesus has clearly said even if you don't understand it.
@@jamesedwards.1069The doctrine of original sin is not exclusive to Calvinism. Literally every Christian believes only God is good.
The main problem with Calvinism is the prideful doctrine of believing that God chooses who gets saved. As if God has any reason to. He is just and holy. Why would He pick you? You’re a sinner like everyone else.
No, what is actually biblical is that God provided His Son to be the atoning sacrifice for ALL people, not some. He has grace over all His creation. He does not force anyone to believe. Instead He allows anyone to come to faith, to respond or reject the gospel message. If you believe God has to pick you, you have pride in your heart and you don’t believe Christ’s death and resurrection was enough.
@@Lukandon "Why would He pick you? You’re a sinner like everyone else." I find it interesting that the doctrine of predestination gets turned around into the idea that God picked me because I'm sofa king special and not just another sinner like the rest of the stupid losers.
Romans 9:
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
But then in Hebrews 11 it says this:
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
It's a paradox. I do not run from paradoxes, because to run from paradoxes is to run from paradise.
Your big mistake is to suppose that you can full grasp the mind of God. God only reveals His mind to those who actually trust Him. Everybody else is in darkness, and, how great is their darkness.
Romans 11:
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
@@jamesedwards.1069Honestly, your "stupid losers" comment is making me doubt you're actually saved. What Christian says that? Seriously...?
You're actually the 2nd Calvinist I've met online who mocks the lost that way. It makes me sick. It would make any Christian sick, especially those who put in the effort of evangelising like Ray Comfort. We don't deserve His perfect gift of salvation. We've all fallen short of the glory of God, yet you all think in your heart that God would just pick you? You? Of all sinners? And not your neighbour? Disgusting. It's not biblical, it's a heretical theology that stems from the pride of the heart, wanting to twist the word of God to fit its desire, the desire of desparately wanting to be chosen, because being chosen and pride go together. It's a sickening, gross theology that mocks God and His gospel.
I don't see the relevancy of Romans 9 since it's about Israel, not individual election to salvation.
Can't believe I found another Calvinist claiming there are paradoxes in Scripture. We're talking about the perfect word of God here, man, not your favourite time travel novel. Paradoxes are incoherent and incompatible with a God who created the literal universe. He's a God of order and logic. It's why we have the fine tuning argument for His existence. Speaking of which, apologetics as a whole is unnecessary for a God who picks people to save.
Anyway, I know I'm wasting my time with you, because you've clearly already made up your mind and don't want to admit you're wrong, so I'll just pray for you that God softens your heart and guides you to the truth, probably save you from your sins as well.
The Calvinist framework left me feeling hopeless. It's because of videos like yours that I am rethinking the elect viewpoint, and I feel myself coming back to life and wanting to share my story of redemption with the lost. Thank you for sharing your story. Praise our God.
Israel is elect. Jesus is the elect one. Trust him, and you are elect.
It's really not hard. But too much name calling over the years has really been loaded into words and people get all bent out of shape when it happens.
Other good authors to check out.
John Lennox
CS Lewis
Ken Keithly
Bunch of others out there.
Singular predestinarian election to salvation is the death knell in most peoples minds. It kills prayer, it kills worship, it kills workfor evangelicalism and preaching, it kills planning for the future. If it's true fultility ensues. If it's not, all of the Calvinists house of cards crashes to the table
@@Richardcontramundum And not just election but overall determinism.
Excellent!! Shed the evils of Calvin and bask in Jesus Christ alone! ☺️☺️
Hopelessness is why Satan puts so much time in his doctrine of Calvinism. Because hopelessness is almost death it's self.
I highly suggest you listen to beyond the fundamentals channel. Romans 9. You will most likely be convinced calvinism is not biblical.
Good for you bro!
great video!
Calvinism wrecked my world, I am not the same person I was, I don't witness and have the love for the lost like I use to, I constantly agonize over if I am of the elect, I can't pray because I don't know if I am one God loves and I can't read the bible without anxiety, fear and condemnation. I am so glad I heard your testimony and your exhortation to get back to the word and let the Holy Spirit teach me.
This is exactly what I’m going through right now!
@@mimmz3696 I am so sorry you are going thru that. I pray that the love of God and the power of God's word and Spirit would minister to you in a new and powerful way in Jesus name amen.
I recommend soteriology101 and beyond the fundamentals. Those two channels really helped clear things up for me.
The results of calvinism is what you are going through. That is why Satan puts so much energy into promoting it. It consumes it's victims that have been attracted to the flame of it's pride!
Truth in Love
@@jameshoyt3692 thank you, I will check them out.
Thanks for sharing, just saw you with L.Flowers too. Looking forwards to more vids.
Calvinist witnesses to man in apt. hallway who prays to be saved. The new convert says lets hurry and go share the Gospel with my family.
The Calvinist, being an honest person, quickly agrees and says "Yes, we should go find out if God loves your wife and kids too!"🤔🤔
Yes that is true! All true! Sorry to break it to you.
The bottom line of all of Calvinisms glorious riches, of loving merciful truths, of god, is to prove to you that:
God does not love everyone!
Christ did not die on the cross for everyone.
That God is pleased to damn billions to hell!
People are saved by gods lottery for no reason at all!
John Calvin said it best in his glorious teaching,
Quote: God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction.( John Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
“…salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5)
The greatest living Calvinist teacher John Piper said it best, describing gods glories riches and mercies to mankind.
Quote: God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
We sing together that great song of love and praise for our god.
"Jesus loves me, this I know.
As for you, I don't think so.
Only some to Him belong. We are right and you are wrong.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
But I hope this isn't effervescent grace that I'm walking in and instead I'm actually deceived and one of the reprobates that He created to burn as a candle for His glory in Hell forever."
If the above doesn't make you sick to your stomach nothing will. I presented the lies of calvinism unvarnished and clearly above. I used a lower case god for they worship another god.
Calvinism is not Christianity, it is apposed to The Good News gospel to man kind. I can tell by your words you saw the heresy right away.
This is the truth
.John 3:15-21 15 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that EVERYONE who believes in Him may have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that EVERYONE who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save THE WORLD through Him.
18 WHOEVER believes in Him is not condemned, but WHOEVER does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19 And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But WHOEVER practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”
John 3:36 WHOEVER believes in the Son has eternal life. WHOEVER rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”
1 Timothy 2:3-6 3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wants EVERYONE to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL-the testimony that was given at just the right time.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. So CHOOSE life, so that you and your descendants may live.
Its sad how they pervert and twist each word to conform to their man religion invented by John Calvin!
If you are seriously open to understanding go to RUclips
"Soteriology 101" Dr. Leighton Flowers.
Dave Hunt "What love is this"
David Pawson
Moriel TV
Kevin Thompson
May God bless your seeking after God. (The real God.)
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 Amen.
John 3:15-21 15 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that EVERYONE who believes in Him may have eternal life."
And nowhere in the proper context of any scripture is it proclaim that all, or any, men are unable 'from birth' to believe. ... That verse is Calvinism's "Missing Link".
@@truth7416 I recognize the Piper quote, where did you find it?
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT It comes from Pipers website. Funny how the high priests of Calvinism all have their comments turned off so no one can expose them. Same with John MacArthur. When your net worth Piper $14 million and MacArthur $24 million, that is when you have serious money flow to protect.
They haven't caught up to Benny Hinn yet but they are closing.
By their fruits you will know them!
TRUTH IN LOVE
God loves everyone right? No the unbeliever is under the wrath of God and destined to hell. We [in love] present the gospel to all because it is the Gospel that God uses to bring His called into Grace . Just like you were brought into grace and you had no idea that "your choice to believe" was not actually your choice until after your were touched by God in time and space and that touch was ordained before the foundation of the world. Just like everything has been set into motion. For example the writing of the Bible. Every word was destined before time and yet there it is . Judas was a product of predestination and yet guilty of his sin. You'll never get around these overwhelming truths untill and unless you decide that God is in control. Who was responsible for the suffering of Job and do you believe God was glorified in all that Job suffered or do you think the one true God as evil when He allowed Satan to destroy every temporal vestige of Job's life. Surely you don't think Satan was in charge of all this a helpless God stood and watched helpless. If God id glorified in "all" then He isn't God---period.
Great video!
Thank you for sharing!! Great!!
I’ve learned so much from Steve Gregg. He was instrumental in my journey away from Calvinism.
Can you provide a link to videos or books etc. to this person?
I’ve never grown more than through reformed theology which is simply the gospel and core biblical protestant teaching
yes, the reformed calvinist cancer spreads rapidly , this cancer attacks heart body mind and soul, amazing how the powers / principalities work. May you choose to seek coherence and health .
Growing yes but growing in the wrong direction. Calvinism is a doctrine of the devil to sideline Christians.
God bless you. It must have been a tough journey to break away. Thanks for sincerely and humbly sharing.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psalm 51:6😀
Grateful that despite pressures I'm not a calvinist, but early on as an evangelical, I found myself like you said being forced to skip over so many scriptures that didn't fit into my understanding of theology. So glad to not be there anymore, if a scripture upsets my view of the Bible, I let it do so
Losing your zeal for the lost is an issue with your own heart. I don't have to believe that I as a mere man and a sinner at that can convince anyone at anytime to repent and believe. You glory God by defending truth regardless of whether that person accepts or rejects.
I stumbled into Calvinism when I was in late High School. I didn't question it because it was taught to me by a PhD, so who was I to question him right? Shortly thereafter I backslid in my faith pretty hard as I left for the military and away from my support. Eventually Jesus revealed himself to me again and reminded me that He loves me and that He has a plan for my life. I am grateful that Jesus was so patient with me through all of that and kept me from big trouble that I was surrounding myself with.
Your experience, if genuine, is literally calvinism. God doesn't reveal his Son to everyone
The Doctine of Perseverence of the Saints in practice in your life. Jesus saves.
And that was your first mistakes, Ph.Ds are almost always corrupt people. Among the first things I learned the more letters and degrees the bigger chance its a heretick. Who gave Jesus the most problem on earth? It wasnt workers, it wasnt the military, it wasnt criminals, it wasnt prostitutes, it was the scribes, the scholars, the pharisées, the sadducées.
Those people you check out extra they are always sus.
GREAT video. Thank you.
Thanks, for sharing your story.
Bro I appreciate this so much. One of my longtime friends slowly converted and it was painful.
To Calvinism I forgot to mention
Ah, the problems that arise from following after man instead of Christ. I'm not an Armenian nor a Calvinist. I don't believe you are one or the other because you're not one or the other. I am a Christian. I follow Christ. Its even in the name!
Do be more vague please. Are you a Mormon “Christian” a “new age Christian” a secular “Christian”?
Identifying with confessions is not trusting blindly in man’s positions but rather looking to the Spirit and the historical church to guide you into all truth. I think to the extent you apply more faith in the Spirit the more He will unite you with the Truth of His word. To be hung up or too obstinate to die to secular stances you have formed in order to gain insight into His word is what keeps many alone and inconsistent with biblical teachings
I agree 100%.
If you put any name before ism or ist, you are putting man where they do not belong.
Sola scriptura means scripture alone. I fully agree there. I may find useful insight from different theologians, but no theologian will ever earn my loyalty. Scripture is my only source of truth.
"I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian." These are the words of the truly confused. So, sir is salvation the work of God alone?(calvinism) Or is salvation a cooperation between God and man?(Arminian, partial Pelagianism) Or is it soly man's doing (pure Pelagianism)? It's one of the 3 there isn't another option.
@@aaronmay6425 that is not the definition of Sola Scriptura, and defining it that way is exactly what Rome attacks. Sola Scriptura means that scripture is the only rule of faith that is infallible, it does not mean that scripture is the sole rule of faith.
Lol 😂 never read Calvin !
Praise God... I'm going to share this on my Facebook page.
Here's to hoping that I keep the few calvinistic friends on my friends list... regardless.. it's a good thing to share..
Thank you for sharing your story.
Everyone limits the atonement or else they're a universalist. The disagreement is whether God or man limits it.
You are assuming the atonement what saves. You can't be saved without the atonement but the atonement does not save by itself. So no, Bible believers don't limit the atonement
@@coryalbright9798 Unlimited atonement says that, while Christ does a great deal to bring salvation to His people, His death on the cross did not actually secure that salvation for anyone. Christ’s death is not sufficient in and of itself to save lost people, and, in order for His atoning work to be effective, there is a requirement that sinners themselves must meet. That requirement is faith. For man to be saved, he must add his faith to Christ’s atoning work on the cross. Therefore, the effectiveness of the atonement is limited by man’s faith or lack thereof. On the other hand, limited atonement believes that Christ’s death and resurrection actually secures the salvation of His people. While God does require faith of His people, Christ’s death even paid for the sin of our unbelief, and, therefore, His death meets all requirements for our salvation and provides everything necessary to secure the salvation of God’s people including the faith to believe. That is true unconditional love, a salvation that is by grace alone in Christ alone. Christ plus nothing equals salvation-an atonement so sufficient that it secures everything necessary for salvation.
@@johntrevett2944 your Using calvinistic reasoning to come to this conclusion but it doesnt quite line up with scripture
God doesn't try and fail to save anyone. He saves those who believe and that's it. His death was to forgive the sins of the world. Scripture is as clear as possible about this. Unbelief is the barrier, not because it's a sin necessarily but because it's the God ordained access point to grace. If you just let scripture speak this is clear. Throw the reformed presuppositions aside and let the text speak.
fortunately that is what the Calvinist does---just let the scripture speak@@coryalbright9798
@@bobwood5146 I don't think so. So many verse can't mean what they say to a calvinist. Sonwtimes the system is more authoritative then scripture imo.
Glory to Jesus for your deliverance from that system😊
Bro. I have that same exact painting right behind my head.
Can you tell me what you mean by NT Wright having a Biblical theology vs a Systemic theology? I'm not sure what systemic theology is I guess.
Can you also suggest good commentaries on Romans?
I'm not a Calvinist, but there have been some very evangelistic preachers who were also Calvinists. Three who seem to really stand out are George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, and Charles Spurgeon. How would you view them?
If you ever listen to Spurgeon’s sermon about Responsibility of Man.. he fully admits Calvinism completely contradicts much to do with the functional gospel.. but he basically says “Grin and bear it”. He also points out how if he said anything further he would be accused of being a heretic.
Good men, good preachers, bad doctrine.
God Bless You for waking up from the Evil of Calvinism !!!!!!! Use your zeal for the Lost !!!!!!! its God given
I was so glad that there is a word for my loss of joy, feelings of immense sadness, insecurity regarding my salvation, and feeling as though God was waiting for me to mess up so he could punish me. Calvinism! So grateful for my mother who noticed and unbeknownst to me, asked others for prayers on my behalf ❤ I Thank God
Thanks for sharing. Steve Gregg was also instrumental in my exodus from Calvinism.
I too had a zeal for the lost and wanted to evangelize to the lost up until I began to be taught by calvist. I couldn't understand what they meant by limiting attonment and it settled wrong with me. In the end I cared too much for the lost to believe in Calvinism.
Me too. I also have a big zeal for the lost souls and to know tha out of all people i tried and am currently trying to reach for Christ, a tiny minority will be saved breaks my heart. And to think about the ones who won't be saved that i'm trying to reach, whoever they'll turn out to be, To think that i want their salvation more so than the God who sent Jesus to die in the cross NOT FOR THEM, and didn't even give them a chance, in the end makes me more loving and desperate for their salvation than God himself,... and i refuse to believe i love these friends whom won't be saved whoever they are, than God does, that i desire their salvation more than God. I'm almost reaching the point of thinking TULIP is a demonic affront to the character of God
WOW...................."In the end I cared too much for the lost to believe in Calvinism." THAT SAYS IT ALL..............
You think you are better than God?
@@markjudy7733Indeed, this is a simple saying yet powerful!❤
You don’t care anymore than God.
"The only consistent Calvinist is a hyper Calvinist"
Exactly! I've said the same thing for years!
Yes, and I’ll bet you’ve heard , “ you just don’t understand ….”
“you’re misconstruing the doctrines of grace”
“ mystery is in the Bible… “
@@truthseeker5698 What a joke, "doctrines of grace"! What kind of good news is it that God most likely created you with the sole purpose of burning you for eternity? That He did not send His Son to die for you, that you are incapable of believing the gospel. That you cannot choose to turn from your sin and enter a relationship with God. "Grace" indeed!
@@AM-bz7ru the satan and lucifer have been celebrating this teaching everyday for centuries . One who “knowingly” subscribes to such teachings and attempts to align these to God of the Bible, may be in for one hell of a time.
THE TULIP IS THE DEVILS FAVORITE FLOWER TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF HEAVEN.
John 3:16. Jesus said it, we believe it, and that settles it John 6:47. John 3:18. Calvinist believe God hates the world. First John 2:2. John 3:18. First John 5:13
God loves us, but hates our sin. So He took the punishment for our sin on the cross so we could never be condemned again. John 5:24.
@@AM-bz7ru Saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
Saving repentance is turning from unbelief to belief.
I appreciate the teaching of Bishop Robert Barron, an outstanding teacher.
Glad you made it out!!!
I too left Reformed theology for Biblical theology thanks to the Bible Project, NT Wright, and Mike Winger; however, reformed theology really deepened my faith for a time. I would not have the relationship with Christ I have today without it and know a lot of great Christians who are reformed. But like you said, you have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make it work when you read the Bible.
You're very right Ben. There are some ways in which my faith was deepened as well. I do not write off everything. Example... eschatology typically found in the Reformed tradition is much more sound than others. But the certainly the mental gymnastics around foreknowledge and soteriology are tiring.
Glad you came out of it! Always reforming! :-]
I was speaking to a younger brother in the Lord who believes in the calvinistic doctrines and tries to back it up with Romans and other scriptures and I just left feeling shaken and doubting my faith.
I asked him then who was the Lord speaking of when he said he was not willing that any perish ? The elect ? Believers ? Why would he not be willing they perish if they are already saved ? Makes no sense to me.
There is also the scripture that Jesus tasted death for every man. The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that the wicked would turn from his evil ways and live.
_"I asked him then who was the Lord speaking of when he said he was not willing that any perish ? The elect ? Believers ? Why would he not be willing they perish if they are already saved ? Makes no sense to me."_
This is one of those times where it is important to read whole chapters (at least) and follow along with the flow, instead of single verses. You can see two different groups in the chapter, the reprobate scoffers for whom God is storing up fire for their judgement, and the "Beloved". Verse 8 sees the change in context from talking about the scoffers to talking about the beloved, as it answers the question of why God doesn't immediately judge the reprobate. He "delays" (seemingly) his judgement because he doesn't want any of his beloved to perish, but each of his beloved to reach repentance. Were he to judge immediately, those beloved who have not yet repented, or have not even been born yet, would be lost, and God doesn't want that.
_"There is also the scripture that Jesus tasted death for every man."_
This doesn't seem to be about soteriology in context, but about Jesus's authority.
For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. It has been testified somewhere, “What is man, that you are mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him? You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, putting everything in *subjection* under his feet.” Now in putting everything in *subjection* to him, he left *nothing outside his control.* At present, we _do not yet see everything in subjection to him._ But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, *crowned* with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
When the passage does turn to soteriology in the very next verse, how does it apply this "death for everyone"?
"For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing *many* sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering."
The passage itself doesn't seem to see Christ's death that crowns him above everyone as having a universal effect on salvation. The focus is on Christ as lord of all.
_"The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that the wicked would turn from his evil ways and live."_
This is obviously true on Calvinism. No Calvinist thinks God punishes people to get his jollies. It is a matter of somber judgement that the wicked get justice for their willful sin. This objection is particularly mysterious to me, as it makes no sense and never seems based on anything Calvinists have written on the matter.
@@oracleoftroy Just about all of the institutional church focuses on some form of sin management when Jesus crucified it in the flesh already. We are dead with him and raised to newness of life. You will still have sin living in a carnal body. Romans 7.... But we can overcome by walking in the spirit
Thank you for sharing your story!
Well done
I unknowingly married a very good looking hard core calvinist, he deliberately didn't tell me about his belief system. He literally said to my face in front of our counselor, who also is a calvinist, that he was hoping that through osmosis I'd come to accept it as the gospel. I feel so traumatized by this action. Since then I've studied Calvinism in depth. It truly is, as CS Lewis said, a doctrine of devils!!! How on earth can a hard core consistent Calvinist be set free of this doctrine of devils?
I would encourage you to read the Canons of Dort and the Scriptures cited therein, and see whether or not you agree with them. Scripture is the authority here, not the Canons (some people get confused on that when I mention the Canons of Dort).
@@TheMaineSurveyor no thank you. I've already read and done the scripture check up in it and it doesn't jive in a lot of it.
Where are you going when you die ?
Stand firm, you have the real truth. Well done! Proud of you sister!!
Think of this natural conclusion of Calvinism. If Reformed 5-Point Calvinism was true, a Calvinist parent should not hesitate to teach this to their children.
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
How sick and twisted is that? Yet this is absolutely in line with their demonic doctrine. It describes Satan's character not our Loving Savior.
I would highly recommend the following teachers on youtube for you.
David Pawson.
Mike Winger
Soteriology 101 Dr Leighten Flowers
What love is this Dave Hunt
These following are the most dangerous Heretics in the World right now. Stay away from them.
John MacArthur
John Piper
R.C.Sproul
Paul Washer
James White
Voddie Baucham
Steven Lawson
Truth in love
@@truth7416 Tell us about how you made a decision and accepted gods universal offer and allowed him to save you and now you’re a charismatic roman priest !
Leighton Flowers is awesome. His material helped me wrestle with calvinism for about 2 years, while also going through a personal crisis. Consistent calvinism poisoned my relationship with God and I am now unable to listen to my pastor without having to filter TULIP out of everything he says.
Hey, how do I reach you? Help me reach this brother.
ty for your testimony 😇🙏. may i ask you a personal question ? did you feel like calvinism may have bred pride in you? like the old ancient hebrews seed special mindset kinda thing ? i feel thats the biggest issue with most calvinists, they love the idea of being chosen imo
imo when someone attacks calvinism its like they feel youre attacking their grace birth right or sum i stg
Thanks for sharing this I am dealing with a Calvinism man. My hope and pray is that he can open his eyes!
If it was up to him why are you praying about it? How could praying change his free decision?
I suggest mike wingers videos on Calvinism if y’all want a great biblical objections to Calvinism!
Winger is usually spot on but his "refutation" of calvinism is lackluster. The whole crux of his argument is that he claims calvinist believe faith is a work. Absolutely no leading calvinists claims this.
@@johntrevett2944 I’ve heard it from James white in his debates
@@DJRoll15 James White says a lot of stuff that is unbiblical. Ive heard him claim God decrees child rape for His glory.
@@johntrevett2944 then he wants to act like it’s a good purpose. Pretty gross tbh.
@@DJRoll15 Ya, I dont see a lot of fruit of the spirit flowing through that guy. I would be warey of this guy/channel as He teaches you can lose salvation.
Bless you.
A clearly laid out, well presented argument.
Great to hear that you have escaped the snare.
Funilly i went the opposite. I dispised calvinism (due lack of actually knowing what it says, or the bible for that matter), but i can no longer deny it. Well, im not settled on the limited atonement part, but the others all seem biblical to me.
When you live life, and you look at children and people help out other people or even you yourself; then you have to question Total Depravity. I suppose I will leave you to ponder this one question: If we are all totally depraved (possessing hate for the will of God, and incapable of doing “true” good) then how can King David prior to regeneration, be a man after God’s own heart? (1 Kings 11:38) (1 Samuel 13:14)
The common answer is no answer from a Calvinist. This question cannot be answered so it is avoided altogether and ignored. The logical fallacy of this matter is that “Something can still be true when critical evidence shows you that it’s clearly not possible” If you are noble, you will face it and wrestle with it until either you take it down or it takes you down.
I was a hardcore Calvinist myself.
@@arl8935 Total depravity does NOT mean that a person is incapable of brotherly love. No one seeks God without the Holy Spirit doing the lifting.
@@truthfirst2983 Total Depravity says that a sinner does no “true” good. The reference being “all our works are like filthy rags” and “there is none who does good. No, not one” That is the basis for Calvinism.
@@arl8935 I think that you are mistaken. If loving the LORD with all we have is what you mean, then I think you are right. However, lesser "goods" are not precluded.
@@truthfirst2983 That is was the doctrine of Depravity is -no one does good, not one. The argument is that when you think someone is doing good, they are actually doing it from selfish motives. Thus, on this line of reasoning they think babies cry because they too are selfish and demanding reprobates.
What about the verses that mention predestination?
They twist those.
Are you familiar with Kevin Thompson from Beyond the Fundamentals?
Thanks, brother for honest sharing. I grew up going to churches, and never was exposed to that system until my 30's, and just could never swallow it. In my heart I knew that we did not worship a God like that, but it took much longer to start understanding it in greater depth. I'm also grateful for learning a lot from Steve Gegg. Peace to you and I know you will persevere.
One thing us theological nerds need to keep in mind when wrestling with these issues it is our finite mind trying to understand an infinite God. I try not to "Hitch my wagon"or adhere to tightly to theological dogma whether it's Calvinism or armenianism or any kind of theological ism you can think of. I try to keep my Christian walk as simple as possible while still wrestling with these deeper things. And no I'm not a Calvinist
Sorry to hear that. A correct understanding of the Doctrines of Grace will allow your wrestling to come to an end.
Amen! This is my approach as well.
Or maybe you are just completely delusional.
@@sidepot you know the apostle Paul said in first Corinthians 1:8 that knowledge puffs up. I stand by firmly what I said. We are finite minds trying to understand an infinite God. And I will not even intimate that someone who doesn't hold the same opinion as me or doctrine as me (unless of course those doctrines are salvific in nature and essential) I would not refer to anyone as delusional. See one day when we stand before God these mysteries and things that we're discussing here, hopefully in a love filled way will all be revealed to us and we will know as we are known. Just my thoughts brother
@@ThecrosseyedTexan
Yeah here we go with the fear mongering bullsh*t. Just STFU already.
Praise the Lord. So have you fully come out of all 5 points of Calvinism? Even the “P” - perseverance of the saints (aka eternal security)?
Liked and subbed for this video
Concerning “Limited Atonement”, How do you reconcile Jesus Christ Himself stating in John 10:26 (NASB)
“But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep.” Jesus Christ had a perfect opportunity to continue sharing and expounding the gospel further to these particular Jews who stated to Him, in John 10:24 (NASB)
"How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” … ???
Because they were in unbelief. Plus they repeatedly said they followed Moses. Yet they didn’t believe Moses. See John 5:42-47. You might ask. What was it that Moses said, that they didn’t believe? Deut 18:15. So here is Jesus, the Messiah to come that Moses prophesied, would. Yet they loved the religion they had created. But they spoke the Mosaic lingo. The Jewish leaders had done this for decades and decades. They were doing it in the prophet Jeremiah’s day. Jer 2:13. God says, you have committed two evils. You have forsaken Me, the Fountain of Living Waters and hewn for yourselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water. The leaders made their own religious cisterns, that were godless, thus a broken cistern that held NO Water. Again they didn’t believe Moses. Jesus says so in the John 5 verses.
Bravo for your video. I am also an ex-Calvinist. I studied theology in reformed seminaries but like you, one day everything began to fall piece by piece. Although I can explain in detail why Calvinism is wrong, I want to highlight four things. Firstly, Calvinism is based on false presuppositions, like unlimited atonement means Jesus fails when people don't accept him. That's not true, when someone rejects the gospel it is his fault, not Christ's. Secondly, Calvinism survives through an echo chamber system. Rarely do Calvinists encourage other fellow Calvinists to engage with people from other denominations. And thirdly, sadly I have to say that although I know many good Calvinists, many others are very dodgy people; myself included when I was one of them. I guess one cannot be better than his master, and if your master is a deterministic God, those who follow such a being cannot be very lovely.
"Rarely do Calvinists encourage other fellow Calvinists to engage with people from other denominations."
This one is true. Other denominations are the field. Most arminians are unconverted and have no fear of God
You obviously don’t understand the doctrine of atonement. Jesus accomplished the will of the Father on the cross. Jesus saves. Jesus saves.
Outstanding
Thank you for sharing this friend. I trust that God is continually growing you even after a year of you making this video. I would really love to connect with you sometime if you are available. It takes alot of humility and grace to make those changes openly. I appreciate your spirit in it all.
"I feel...." is no basis for a theology!
He didn't say it was just feelings.
Well said. The diabolical doctrine of predestination to hell irrespective of human choice is diametrically opposed to the nature of our loving God. That's a major reason Calvinism is completely unscriptual. 😀
Free will doctrine is Satanism. It is converting to a false God who won't judge the vast majority of humanity for their sins. It is saying I'm better than my neighbor - i'm wiser in my choices and less rebellious
Praise the Lord.
John 6:65 [65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Good stuff. I almost got influenced but praise God I knew it was wrong.
Calvinism is absolutely biblical haha
@@cendallitak8140 If Calvinism was a tube of tooth paste, do you know what you would get when you squeezed the tube? Out would come:
"God doesn't love you" God doesn't want to save you" "But he sure wanted to save me"
Then would come the buzz words like "Straw man" " Palagious" " Free Willer" " Romans" "Ephesians" "Jacob I loved and ..." “ common grace” "God wouldn't be God" "Sovereign Grace" "You don't understand Calvinism" .....
Great system don't you think?
Well actually Calvinists don't think! They repeat, over and over like a Parrot.
John Calvin bans thinking, because that would be a work and we can't have that can we. He does approve chanting his poison doctrines.
Since I became a Calvinist I’ve actually grown in my walk and sanctification, I have a bigger zeal to preach the word of God and save that which is lost , remember God gave us a ministry of reconciliation. I actually don’t force Calvinism on anybody and still attend my Pentecostal church that I grew up in. I’m not a hyper Calvinist so you’ll probably say I’m inconsistent but I’m also the type of person that would tell you all doctrine is man made and has some gaps in it. I just believe that Calvinism is the most sound doctrine that is out there and it helps my walk with Christ.
Keep preaching the gospel brother! Just remember that Jesus said, "“If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” (John 7:37-38)
Since I became a Catholic, I’ve actually grown in my walk and sanctification etc.
@@michaelibach9063 Same!!!!!!
@@michaelibach9063 since I left the RCC my personal relationship with Christ alone has blossomed!
@@KM-zn3lx ok, prove it.
I preach the gospel daily, live an aesthetic lifestyle as a homeless man like several prophets did, Jesus did, the apostles did, I have given away practically everything I own, keeping only my touring bicycle with bags, a few clothes, toothbrush, iPad, phone and a few other things, I encourage other homeless people, help drug addicts get help, help alcoholics get help, help distribute food to low income people, check on shut ins mainly disabled elderly people, talked several people out of committing suicide and have done so for about three years, all by the grace of God I receive through my Catholic faith. Just like Saint Francis of Assisi and other Catholic Saints. I live by faith, typically not making more than ten dollars a week, yet still being provided everything I need to continue to do what I do.
So how’s that compare to where you are at? Jesus is our high bar and our example, so how do you measure up?
My advice, go back to Catholicism and be a real Christian and be like Christ, the apostles, Paul, St. Patrick, st. Francis of Assisi, etc...
Btw, the clocks ticking, we are actually in the end game, no time to lose. If you weren’t aware that this is the end times, I’d question whatever spirit you believe you are having a relationship with. It’s probably more likely that you say things like you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and in reality don’t, you have a personal relationship with a book, which then you incorrectly interpret.
Protestants like to say they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and then look at you funny when you tell them God talks to you.
Thank you for your clear summary and for pointing me to the teaching of Steve Gregg and The Narrow Path, it has been really helpful to me. 💛
Reformed thinking does not go against evangelism at all. We are clearly called to share the gospel and share it boldly. Reformed thinking merely focuses on the Sovereignty of God vs the will of man. Our focus is on Grace, faith in Christ alone, and the need for sanctification. My heart burns for the lost. Sorry you’ve had these struggles
Sorry you've been deceived. The god of calvinism has more in common with allah than the Biblical God. Both allah and calvinism's god predetermined who goes to heaven and hell. Both are doctrines of demons